Latest / The Illinois Nutrient Loss Reduction Podcast / Episode 35 | Are these Tools in your Toolbox | Perennial Grasses
Transcript
- Episode 35 | Are these Tools in your Toolbox | Perennial Grasses 00:00:07:05 - 00:00:33:21 Todd Gleason This is the Illinois Nutrient Loss Reduction Podcast, episode 35. Are these tools in your toolbox? Perennial grasses. I'm Illinois Extension's Todd Gleason. Today, we'll explore how perennial grasses of all kinds can be incorporated into the landscape and the farm. We'll begin by talking with Professor of Regenerative Agriculture in the Department of Crop Sciences at the University of Illinois, Emily Heaton. 00:00:33:24 - 00:00:36:13 Todd Gleason I asked her to tell me a little bit about herself. 00:00:36:16 - 00:01:09:26 Emily Heaton Well, my name is Emily Heaton, and I'm a professor of regenerative agriculture and the crop sciences department at the University of Illinois. And I work, a lot on perennial biomass crops, which I think we're going to talk about today. But those fit under a larger umbrella. In my program of of what we call regenerative agriculture, which is, maybe a topic for another day, but it's essentially making sure that we farm in such a way that we regenerate the resources on which our livelihoods and our communities depend. 00:01:09:28 - 00:01:13:11 Emily Heaton You know, good soil, clean water, healthy people. 00:01:13:18 - 00:01:23:01 Todd Gleason Tell me a little bit more about the background, what you did maybe at Iowa State, what kind of projects you've been involved in. So you get an idea of where we're headed here at Illinois. 00:01:23:05 - 00:01:33:01 Emily Heaton Yeah, sure. So I spent 12 years at Iowa State University in the agronomy department, and I'm actually still an affiliate professor of agronomy at Iowa State. 00:01:33:02 - 00:02:13:16 Emily Heaton So part of what I did there was helped develop, a biomass program, by extension, biomass specialist as well as a research and teaching faculty member. And we we were pretty successful at figuring out where to incorporate perennials into row crop systems to improve the overall performance of that farm. So finding places where maybe the row crop wasn't, making as much money as they should, and finding ways to, strategically insert perennials into those underperforming areas of field to, improve water quality, improve soil quality. 00:02:13:18 - 00:02:20:20 Emily Heaton But, you know, perhaps most importantly, at the same time, improving the economic performance as a whole for that field. 00:02:20:22 - 00:02:23:03 Todd Gleason Can you define biomass for me, please? 00:02:23:06 - 00:02:44:12 Emily Heaton Yes, I would love to define define biomass. So first of all, let's just remember that agriculture produces more than food. Right. So in agriculture we our job is to harvest the sun. We take sunlight, energy and get it converted, with cooperation from plants into forms of, of carbon that we want to use. 00:02:44:12 - 00:03:09:02 Emily Heaton So that includes food, but it also includes fuel, and fiber. And then increasingly it just includes stuff. For the last 50 or 100 years, we've been using a lot of stuff made out of fossil fuels. But we're going back to, a more contemporary carbon economy. So having, biomass crops so that biomass can be used for a variety of purposes. 00:03:09:04 - 00:03:34:13 Emily Heaton And we'll talk about some of those today. But, you know, if you if you think about bamboo towels or maybe you've had flooring made from different renewable materials or you've, seen disposable plates and cups that are now made from paper or increasingly, grass paper products, to replace styrofoam. Those are all things made out of biomass crops. 00:03:34:15 - 00:03:46:27 Todd Gleason So today we're wanting to talk about grasses on the farm, but of course we already have them in the farm rotation, generally speaking, in the form of both corn and wheat. Why then perennial grasses? 00:03:47:00 - 00:03:56:05 Emily Heaton Yeah, that's a great question. So I, first of all, thanks for recognizing that corn is a grass. You know, sometimes that gets forgotten. 00:03:56:08 - 00:04:27:17 Emily Heaton But yeah, I, I think that, the way I view, you know, kind of a high functioning Midwestern landscape has corn and soy. They're complemented by strategically placed plantings of perennials. And so let me tell you a little bit of what I mean about that. We know that the way we have corn and the way distributed on our landscape today that is completely covering our landscape, you know, sometimes it's up to 95% of, non water land area. 00:04:27:17 - 00:04:53:20 Emily Heaton And the Midwest, is in row crops. That's too much to support, clean water and healthy soils. And we've we've found that the paradigm of farming central defense is, is failing and a lot of that. But strategically incorporating perennials into the landscape like, you know, frankly, we used to have, this even 50 short years ago, there was a little bit more pasture, small grains, as you mentioned. 00:04:53:22 - 00:05:15:00 Emily Heaton Those provide, complementarity to those corn systems so that, you know, if, if water or nutrients leave a field, there is a growing, actively growing perennial plant nearby that can suck up that water and the nitrogen that's in it, for example, obviously, we would rather keep our nutrients in the field where the crop can use them. But should they leave? 00:05:15:03 - 00:05:34:21 Emily Heaton If we plant buffers and in intelligent ways around our crop landscape, it helps, the whole landscape operate at a higher level, and then we can grow an extra crop, right? We get we get some perennial biomass that grows at times of year, where that corn and soy doesn't grow and allows us to, sell into different markets. 00:05:34:23 - 00:05:37:02 Emily Heaton And we can and with that, corn and soy. 00:05:37:04 - 00:05:57:12 Todd Gleason Given all of that, it's the economics of this that makes a difference to producers, because of course, they're used to thinking about waterways, maybe some buffer zones. They're not used to thinking about the ability of using those as a cash crop in some way. There needs to be a marketplace. 00:05:57:14 - 00:06:12:28 Todd Gleason And in order for that to happen, there has to be a use. And perennial grasses seems. Well, for most people, I would think not to be something that we would find a marketplace for, although I think you'd argue the other way around. 00:06:13:01 - 00:06:20:22 Emily Heaton Yeah. I think, the marketplaces are developing for perennial grasses and are developing pretty rapidly right now. 00:06:20:25 - 00:06:38:17 Emily Heaton You know, farmers are a problem solvers. And, perennial grasses are just one more tool in the toolbox. So what we've had in the last, I'd say, really ten years is an explosion of smaller markets that are now getting quite well-established. So I'd like to tell you about a couple of those if you're interested. 00:06:38:20 - 00:06:39:09 Todd Gleason You bet. 00:06:39:13 - 00:06:39:26 Emily Heaton Okay. 00:06:39:26 - 00:07:11:12 Emily Heaton So what the market that I think is the nearest term today is the betting market. And, you know, here in central Illinois we have some confinement animal operations, but not a lot of poultry ones. However, there are a lot of poultry operation around the Midwest and particularly in the Mid-Atlantic. Miscanthus is one plant that I work on at the, tall perennial grass that chops up nicely into small pieces that look really similar to woodchips. 00:07:11:14 - 00:07:40:07 Emily Heaton And it grows really well in the Midwest. So miscanthus chips have been taking the place of woodchips and poultry operations, and with them, turkey and chicken. Aggregators have found that miscanthus setting is more absorbent. So they have they can go longer between times of changing the bedding, or they can keep changing bedding at the same rate and have a healthier outcome in the in the house. 00:07:40:07 - 00:08:09:04 Emily Heaton So lower ammonia levels in the house, which is better for both the birds and the employees that work there. And then they actually find that, and improve the quality of, of poultry feet. And you might not think about it in this country, but chicken feeder are a valuable commodity, in Asia. So it added a whole new product for some poultry producers that they can now feet in addition to, the meat and Iowa, I think is a kind of an interesting example. 00:08:09:04 - 00:08:33:12 Emily Heaton Iowa's, the nation's leading producer of both turkeys and eggs. And so I've been working with, a company, a miscanthus company, Agro Tech, and then Tyson Foods, to plant miscanthus around turkey farms in Iowa. And it will be used for bedding, but then it'll also help improve water quality for the local corn soy farmers. 00:08:33:15 - 00:08:59:20 Emily Heaton So they're it's part of an integrated a vertically integrated operation for some of the the big farmers in that area and provides a cheaper, higher quality bedding source and a local bedding source for Tyson. So that's one of the sort of win win for situation. And somehow we have people saying, hey, if you're using that for turkey bedding, if I know you can also grind miscanthus up and make paper products out of it. 00:08:59:20 - 00:09:17:15 Emily Heaton We have people saying, hey, we raised all the eggs in Iowa, but we could also raise the egg cartons. So all of a sudden you start getting, market the layer and vertically integrate quite nicely while also providing ecosystem services like carbon storage, water quality improvement. 00:09:17:17 - 00:09:22:26 Todd Gleason If you're a producer or a landowner, how do you get involved? What's the process? 00:09:22:28 - 00:09:40:00 Emily Heaton So that's a great question. The way I talk to anyone who's interested and they have land that they either manage your own. The first question is what are your goals? What are your goals for that land? There are lots of things that we can do, but we want to do the thing that works best for your operation. 00:09:40:00 - 00:10:14:14 Emily Heaton And that usually looks pretty different for renters compared to owners and people at different stages of their career or, you know, succession planning. So one of the first things that you can do, whether you rent or own, is understand where in your operation you have room for improvement, both economically and environmentally. You know, are there places in your fields that you farm that you shouldn't and you know you shouldn't, but you do it anyway because maybe it is a difficult area to work around or, you know, whatever reason, you're in a hurry. 00:10:14:14 - 00:10:40:06 Emily Heaton Something else, those might be areas of economic and environmental opportunity to try something different. I think until you know where you have room to make a different decision. It's there's not much point in trying to figure out how to incorporate perennials into your system. It's something that should be undertaken strategically with, you know, a system wide perspective for your whole operation. 00:10:40:08 - 00:10:50:20 Todd Gleason Tell me about some of the grass species that you might use and in different, places in the farm. And I suppose maybe we could start with waterways. 00:10:50:23 - 00:11:03:14 Emily Heaton Yeah. So that's waterways are a place that people are familiar with, seeing grass on the farm. And I'm really glad you brought that up, because the grass in a waterway, performs a very specific function. 00:11:03:17 - 00:11:29:17 Emily Heaton The role of grass on the waterway is to help the water move. So a waterway grass needs to lay down, get out of the way for the water. And and that's it. And then survive. That's that's the whole job of a water by grass. And it needs to be managed for that purpose. The grasses that we grow for biomass and for water quality improvement provide a very different function on the landscape. 00:11:29:20 - 00:12:00:20 Emily Heaton The biomass grasses are stiff them. They don't lay down. They slow the flow of water. When they do that, the water moves slower and it drops a lot of the stuff that's in it. So if you're trying to keep soil on the landscape, if you're trying to keep phosphorus on the landscape, if you're trying to keep water on the landscape, just letting it percolate through, you know, you think of these times that we have, you know, no rain all summer and then some with a big gully washer. 00:12:00:22 - 00:12:30:10 Emily Heaton This the stiff stemmed the biomass crops or the energy grasses will help the water actually stay on the field and move through slowly. Now, sometimes you don't want more water on your field. Oftentimes in the spring, we're trying to get rid of water. Those, perennial grasses also help water, move through the profile better so they have their roots are big, their roots are long lived, can go deep. 00:12:30:13 - 00:12:54:18 Emily Heaton So it makes channels in the soil for the water to drain. So we tend to find that these perennial grasses improves soil organic matter, which improves, water management in a field, water holding capacity. And they, they improve infiltration. So and you can just drive on them to literally provide something to drive on in wet spots of the field so that you don't sink a tractor. 00:12:54:20 - 00:13:13:02 Emily Heaton This is one of the, the largest reasons I've seen for adoption of perennial grasses in northwest Iowa is simply is something you can drive on. In some of those really wet spots in the field that the tile drainage just can't there. So waterways have their place, but it's a different place than a biomass crop. 00:13:13:05 - 00:13:14:07 Todd Gleason That was Emily Heaton. 00:13:14:07 - 00:13:38:23 Todd Gleason She's a professor of regenerative agriculture in the Department of Crop Sciences on the Urbana-Champaign campus of the University of Illinois. You'll be able to contact her on campus anytime you'd like to talk more about grass species, particularly perennial grass species, and incorporating them in different ways into your farm. One of the people she's been talking to here in Champaign County is Eric Rund. 00:13:38:23 - 00:14:03:01 Todd Gleason He's been farming for 45 years and was an early adopter of miscanthus on the farm, in hopes of using it as a biomass crop to produce energy, cellulosic energy that was part of and continues to be part of the RFS, but really never panned out as a renewable fuel. However, Eric has been able to develop markets for miscanthus. 00:14:03:04 - 00:14:08:28 Todd Gleason I asked him to tell me a little bit about his operation and how he uses the perennial grass. 00:14:09:00 - 00:14:32:06 Eric Rund I guess principally we stripped tail corn and we no till soybeans. So it's basically, as far as conserving soil and nutrients, that's the principal way we do it. And then we grow, 40 acres of miscanthus, too, which is a perennial, long term grass. 00:14:32:09 - 00:14:41:06 Eric Rund We've planted grass there, some of us 15 years old, ready. We planted on some of our rougher ground to really stop erosion completely. 00:14:41:08 - 00:14:44:19 Todd Gleason Is there a market for 40 acres of miscanthus? 00:14:44:22 - 00:14:52:18 Eric Rund Oh, yeah. In fact, I can't keep up. I didn't start out that way because we planted all this, and it's a perennial, so you don't just tear it up and start over. 00:14:52:18 - 00:15:18:26 Eric Rund It takes 2 or 3 years to get it to form production took a while to develop a market, especially when the idea of biomass ethanol went away. The best market was a turkey bedding fella, and Christmann had three big houses that he used for, we sold to him for three years and then he retired, went out of business, but he spread the word. 00:15:18:26 - 00:15:48:02 Eric Rund And now we, he got another guy started, young guy started, and now all of our production goes to him the, the uses for, miscanthus for bedding and for they call them erosion socks. They fill about a ten inch diameter nylon tube with this chipped miscanthus, and it's very, very absorbent. And construction people throw it down in ditches and so forth to stop erosion. 00:15:48:03 - 00:16:15:08 Eric Rund It comes off the construction sites. I think the eventual market is going to be for burning it. Thermal biomass. We helped the University of Illinois look for a boiler that would fit their needs, went to Germany, went to Europe and I'm three times over there looking at the way they're growing miscanthus where they use it. And we came back with a system that was very practical. 00:16:15:10 - 00:16:36:09 Eric Rund They were able to use it to burn all sorts of biomass, and it seemed to fit the energy farm at the university because they've got all kinds of biomass. There's switchgrass and miscanthus and wood and all that. So that's been installed at the university, heating one of the greenhouses, replacing LP gas. 00:16:36:11 - 00:16:40:20 Todd Gleason Tell me about the first few years with miscanthus and the problems you had. 00:16:40:20 - 00:16:44:01 Todd Gleason I'm sure there were some. And and how you solved it. 00:16:44:03 - 00:17:11:27 Eric Rund Yeah, well, we're still having problems. It's corn and soybeans, you know, more have been studied in this part of the world forever. And, most of the problems that if we don't have the answers to them, there's people sitting in them researching it. But with miscanthus, we had to learn all over again how to grow it and how to grow it in this climate. 00:17:12:00 - 00:17:40:10 Eric Rund And we're still learning. I say it's perennial. You plant it once, and it's been there 15 years, but we've had areas of the field that have gotten weak and we don't know why. And it said lack of, nitrogen uses very little nitrogen only responds to 50 pounds. The acre. So we're not sure if that's if it's to fertilize the problem of its, microbial problem. 00:17:40:12 - 00:18:06:07 Eric Rund So it's it's a challenge. It's it's intriguing to try to figure out these things. And, but if, if you do it right and, get a decent yield of an acre, it will compete. It can compete with corn as far as net profit per acre, especially in the last four years. Now, this year's kind of crazy getting going, but six bucks now, it's kind of hard to compete with that. 00:18:06:09 - 00:18:14:19 Eric Rund But, on a normal year for the last four years, we made more on miscanthus than anything. And corn or soybeans. 00:18:14:22 - 00:18:34:17 Todd Gleason From the conservation side, are there places on the farm that you have thought or have put miscanthus only for the conservation form of it, meaning I want to clean water, I want to slow it down. I want to do something else with it or use it as a conservation method. 00:18:34:20 - 00:19:03:18 Eric Rund Well, we have we we've got a piece of ground that, it's got a creek running through it, and there's some rough ground like on either side of it, so forth. And it does quite well, does better than row crops on ground like that. So yeah, we have planted it just for erosion purposes. That way. But with yields and generates enough energy in, income that it's, it's, it's a profitable crop to grow, period. 00:19:03:20 - 00:19:09:00 Todd Gleason Finally, any advice for producers who might think about putting miscanthus on the farm? 00:19:09:02 - 00:19:29:26 Eric Rund Every piece of ground got a rough spot somewhere. A triangle corner piece along a railroad track or something. The thing, that's hard to farm. When we planted it. It's not a rough ground, but it's a triangular piece. So we've squared off, 160, and now we can farm the rest of it with this, big equipment. 00:19:30:01 - 00:19:48:11 Eric Rund It helps that way. But, let's see here where everything's flat and square. It's it's, it it's a little more difficult to find a spot. I guess you it's not impossible, but there aren't as many places here as it would be in southern Illinois. 00:19:48:14 - 00:19:56:07 Todd Gleason That was Champaign County farmer Eric Rund. He's incorporated a perennial grass in his case miscanthus, into his farming operation. 00:19:56:09 - 00:20:17:11 Todd Gleason Conservation agronomist Ruth McCabe from Heartland Co-op out of Des Moines, Iowa, has been helping producers there to think about perennial grasses in some of those more rolling areas, even the flatland areas of Iowa. And I asked her first to tell me a little bit about what she does and what geographic area heartland Co-op covers. 00:20:17:11 - 00:20:19:11 Ruth McCabe We span pretty much. 00:20:19:11 - 00:20:45:19 Ruth McCabe If you took Iowa, split it into third. Our trade territory is the central horizontal third of Iowa, east to west. And I work with a lot of farmers and landowners in eastern Iowa primarily so working in eastern Iowa. I joke that I'm I work with folks that are south of 20, north of 80 east or 35 all the way to the river, that whole chunk. 00:20:45:22 - 00:21:15:18 Ruth McCabe And so my territory goes from relatively flat to rolling hills, and the further south I get to rolling clay soils. So I work with a lot of different soils, a lot of different slopes, everything from grain crops to animal operations and everything in between. Even got a dairy or two in there. So it's it's a broad span of growers and landowners that I work with. 00:21:15:20 - 00:21:30:04 Todd Gleason On that note, I do have an agronomy question for you, which is what kind of advice on perennial grass seed mixtures do you give? And does it depend very much on geography and region. 00:21:30:06 - 00:21:40:23 Ruth McCabe Yes. Yeah. So actually my my advice for well, the first thing that I would do honestly isn't advice. It's not agronomic, it's more about filling out expectations and opportunities. 00:21:40:23 - 00:21:56:17 Ruth McCabe Right. So I'm sure that, you know, agriculture can do pretty much anything we ask of it. And so at the end of the day, you really have to ask yourself what you want to do with it. So I feel like I'm basically here to help growers navigate their options to achieve their goals. So it's like being an investment advisor. 00:21:56:19 - 00:22:18:14 Ruth McCabe I always say this, I am first assessing someone's risk tolerance, and then I offer them options that they can pick from. So, you know, what are your goals for growing perennial grasses? You want to grow them for bedding, forage, biofuels. How many acres? How aggressively do you want to have to market yourself? And one I can get a good feel for what a grower is looking for. 00:22:18:18 - 00:22:44:03 Ruth McCabe Then. Then I can get more into the agronomic answer to your question like, well, do you want to grow a mixture or do you want to grow a monoculture? Right? So like for instance, species popular monoculture, perennial grasses that are grown for like biomass are things like switchgrass, reed canary grass, miscanthus or giant reed, you know, but then you can get into the native mixture side of things, which are popular for slightly different reasons. 00:22:44:05 - 00:23:11:12 Ruth McCabe You know, and, and they're being explored as a source of perennial biomass as well. And those are things like switchgrass or Indian grass or prairie court grass. You know, and all of those species that I just mentioned grow just fine across Illinois. Obviously, many of them evolved actually to handle Midwest climate and prairie ecosystems. And, you know, things like topography isn't necessarily a concern for growing perennial grasses beyond the logistical difficulty of planting and harvesting them. 00:23:11:12 - 00:23:36:01 Ruth McCabe Right. But perennial grasses are great for slopes. So, you know, really the only agronomic concern I have for growing any perennial grass, regardless of what it is, whether you're growing a monoculture or a mixture and species really is just wet or hydric soils. I think that's something sometimes folks think, hey, I have this place. It's got a seasonal wet spot for performing field. 00:23:36:01 - 00:23:53:26 Ruth McCabe Otherwise, you know, just, I'll just I'll just grow some perennial grasses in that field, maybe selling for biomass. Probably not going to have a lot of luck with that. You've got an area that's like a seasonal wetland. You're probably not going to get a lot growing there, but otherwise most species grow just fine across Illinois, north or south. 00:23:53:29 - 00:24:24:11 Ruth McCabe I haven't seen any issues with that. And then, you know, last but not least, I just also, when people are planting perennial grass roots, especially native route, like the switchgrass, Indian grass, bluestem, that route, I encourage growers to really prepare for what I call like a no harvest or maybe even just a single harvest first year or first two years, because you really want to let perennial grasses get off the ground in their first year or two of planting, to build some good underground reserves before really aggressively harvesting them for their biomass. 00:24:24:13 - 00:24:47:27 Ruth McCabe And of course, that comes down to when you're going to be harvesting. If you're harvesting for things like biofuels or, feedstocks for like co firing, you know, you're going to harvest after a hard frost anyway, so doesn't matter. But if you're harvesting for things like forages or bedding, then you're going to be harvesting in season. And so if that's the case then you might be wanting to wait a year or two before really getting out there and hitting it hard. 00:24:48:00 - 00:24:55:12 Todd Gleason For farmers that are interested in doing this, what advice do you have about incorporating perennial grasses? 00:24:55:15 - 00:25:05:06 Todd Gleason And I'm thinking about miscanthus upfront because that's hard to put in if I remember correctly. Others. Others may be easier, but that one's not easy. 00:25:05:07 - 00:25:16:18 Ruth McCabe Nope. It is not. Yeah. So my my right off the cuff advice is yeah, do your research right. Learn about the species and the uses of it and the harvest timing, you know, because what are you putting in? 00:25:16:18 - 00:25:31:17 Ruth McCabe Can you plant it with the plants or is it rhizomes like miscanthus. And it cannot be planted with a planter, you know, how are you going to get it in the ground? And what do you want to do with it? Do you want to harvest it for, you know, do you know of a local dairy that is willing to use your biomass for bedding? 00:25:31:21 - 00:25:50:05 Ruth McCabe Is there a poultry farm nearby that will use your biomass for their poultry barn? You know, can you explore those local small scale markets? For that matter, you know, learn about what processing might be needed. You know, are you going to have to be the one to flail all that and chop it up and get it ready to go, or can somebody else process it? 00:25:50:07 - 00:26:05:08 Ruth McCabe So these are all the kinds of questions that when people ask me, you know, hey, could I, could I do this? Could I incorporate perennial grasses? Yes. But, you know, you're really going to have to fill out what you're comfortable with managing and doing on your own. And then, for that matter, you know, how comfortable are you selling yourself? 00:26:05:11 - 00:26:20:20 Ruth McCabe You don't get what you don't ask for, but you sometimes have to get out there and hit the pavement to sell what you're trying to do. You know? And that can be hard when you're growing 4000 acres of corn and beans on top of everything else. So that's like my off the cuff answer when it comes to advice for farmers who are interested in getting into perennial grasses. 00:26:20:22 - 00:26:44:15 Ruth McCabe Then I start asking more questions like, again, coming back to goals. I mean, why are you really interested in doing this? It's because you want to harvest this biomass and create another small scale market. Or do you just want to create some acreage for wildlife? As you said earlier, Todd, you just want to have this grass field and consider something like CRP, you know, there are other options for having perennial grasses other than just harvesting them, if that's what you want, you know? 00:26:44:18 - 00:27:12:09 Ruth McCabe And so it's like, again, filling out those goals and figuring out what, what a grower or what a landowner wants when they're thinking about incorporating perennial grasses. To be fair, you know, the corn and bean industry can definitely be, you know, an unstable market with a narrow margin sometimes. Right. And it can be high stress. So growing perennial grasses can be a way to buffer that, just like any other attempts to diversify your operation. 00:27:12:11 - 00:27:19:23 Ruth McCabe But that that adds a level of complexity in terms of how you're managing things. So again, it all comes down to assessing goals and risk tolerance. 00:27:19:25 - 00:27:34:09 Todd Gleason Ruth McCabe. As a conservation agronomist for Heartland Co-op, she works throughout the center part of the state of Iowa. Of course, you've been listening to the Illinois Nutrient Loss Reduction podcast. This is episode 35. 00:27:34:11 - 00:27:48:09 Todd Gleason Are these tools in your toolbox? Perennial grasses. The program was produced in conjunction with the Illinois Extension Watershed Outreach Associates. Jennifer Jones and Rachel Curry. I'm Illinois Extension's Todd Gleason.