Latest / Take1.5 Podcast: Stories from the Messy In-between / How to Trust the Curiosity and Help Your Kids Succeed in Life. 1.25세 김아롬 박사가 알려주는 성공하는 자녀로 키우는 방법

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How to Trust the Curiosity and Help Your Kids Succeed in Life. 1.25세 김아롬 박사가 알려주는 성공하는 자녀로 키우는 방법 · Take1.5 Podcast: Stories from the Messy In-between

0:00
Kimbak Sannim. Doctor Kim, right?
0:05
Yeah. My child is in high school or
0:09
middle school. He's he's pretty smart, you
0:12
know, that does really well in school.
0:15
I really want to help him get into top schools and become a
0:21
PhD as yourself. I'm sorry.
0:25
Right, what should I do as his mom?
0:30
Oh my goodness. Welcome to the Tech 1.5 podcast.
0:35
This is Rose. My name is Arun Kim.
0:42
My PhD was in immunology. So instead of becoming an
0:48
immunologist who do research in immunology, I decided to do
0:53
educational research, became a teaching professor called Auburn
0:57
University in Alabama from there and realized this was not the
1:03
career that I thought I that I visioned.
1:06
Then I started thinking about, OK, what can I do in this world?
1:11
Went through sort of like a midlife crisis just a little
1:16
earlier than other people probably.
1:19
So now I work as a user experience researcher and right
1:25
now as like a side hustle on something that I'm really
1:29
passionate about doing is helping other academics like
1:33
myself pivot into industry. Really rewarding.
1:38
I absolutely love doing it because I feel like I can still
1:41
do the type of mentoring or coaching that I used to do as a
1:46
professor for the students. Now it's actually more with not
1:50
necessarily students, but you know, more with colleagues.
1:54
Let's start from the beginning. Yeah, sure.
1:56
Yeah. What brought your family to the
1:59
states when you were in 4th grade?
2:01
So. My dad is MVP, He has an MDPHD.
2:05
He had a chance to come out here as a visiting scholar to do some
2:10
research for about two to three years.
2:13
What did you like about America that you wanted to stay so
2:17
badly? Honestly, everything you know,
2:20
the freedom, the diversity, accessibility, inclusivity and
2:29
the nature, Oh my God, the nature.
2:32
Even now I think the biggest reason why I want to stay is
2:35
probably the nature. Just, you know, as far as like
2:37
outside of school, but inside the school.
2:40
I think it also was didn't push you to become number one.
2:46
I think in Korea you have to be good in education.
2:50
And when they say education, it's like, you know, you got to
2:53
do certain, you know, scores in math or literature or English,
2:59
whatever, right? Whereas here it was OK, you do
3:05
what you want to do. And if you find something that
3:08
you like doing, great, let's, let's try to find a way to
3:13
improve that. You know, let's try to find a
3:16
way to make that your goal instead of pushing students to
3:22
be good at everything. And there were so many kids who
3:25
were involved in a lot of different extracurricular stuff.
3:29
I think in Korea, a lot of a lot of adults or even teachers will
3:32
say you got to study like that takes away your study time.
3:36
But in America it was more so, OK, you got to be able to to
3:41
become a team player. So let's, let's play sports
3:44
because that's the best way to, you know, learn how to become a
3:47
team player. You got to learn how to overcome
3:52
difficulties. So then, you know, let's try to
3:55
let's, you know, have you learn some kind of a musical
3:58
instrument? Because it's tough, right?
4:00
You have to practice so many different types, overcome that
4:04
stress of learning new instrument.
4:07
So you were able to see the difference between how you were
4:10
schooled in Korea, right? How you're schooled here in
4:13
America, Okay. I actually went to to Wago at
4:18
the time. I think my dad had told me, oh,
4:21
yeah, you might be going to Singapore with your mom and your
4:24
brother. So maybe you might as well go to
4:27
foreign language high school to see to, you know, improve your
4:30
English. I don't know how I got in, but I
4:32
got in. So I started going there and it
4:34
was so tough. Then, you know, I came back into
4:37
the US and that's what I started saying.
4:39
I was like, OK, you know, they don't want me to be good at
4:42
everything. They want me to find something
4:44
that I really like. And that's how the kids were,
4:47
how the students were approaching it, too.
4:49
You know, they were like, oh, you're not.
4:50
I really like music. Yes, You know, I want to become
4:52
a doctor, but I love music. So I'm going to I'm going to
4:56
join the band or I'm going to join the choir.
4:59
The stress was nowhere, nowhere near the stress that I was
5:04
having in Korean education, so. What about stress from your own
5:08
family, like your parents expecting you to accomplish
5:12
certain things to certain you know?
5:15
Yeah, You know, I think that's the difference with me and a lot
5:20
of people that I've talked to is they never really pushed me into
5:24
becoming anything. I think the only time my dad did
5:29
push me was when I told my dad that I wanted to pursue PhD.
5:35
He was so against it. If you want to do something
5:37
along that line, you should just go for ND like, you know, go to
5:41
medical school. And I don't want to go that
5:42
route. Don't don't do a PhD.
5:44
And you know, this is coming from a person who did ND PhD,
5:47
right? So he knew, right?
5:49
And I should have listened to him.
5:51
But no, stubborn as I am, you know, I was like, no, forget it,
5:54
whatever. This is my love.
5:56
I'm doing whatever I want. And he cut me off financially
5:59
for a year and I didn't talk to him for like 2 years, probably
6:04
because I was, I was so upset. I always had that support with
6:08
my parents. So I'm thinking you are already
6:13
in a family where academia is very important or very
6:17
accomplished with that is MDPHDI have to assume that these things
6:23
are kind of normal for you, like, you know, accomplishing
6:25
certain level of academia or degree or and your parents
6:31
probably trusted you because you are already good in school,
6:34
you're smart, you knew what you wanted to do, you know, sort of
6:39
right for that age group. But for many, many Korean
6:42
American families, immigrant families, the parents struggle
6:47
in this country, right? They are working very, very hard
6:51
in a blue collar setting, facing many, many unfair treatments.
6:56
So one big thing that immigrant families want for their children
7:02
the next generation is to become successful going to the
7:07
mainstream America and not do the same sort of work that the
7:11
parents are doing, right? So for Korean society, I think
7:15
historically to education is like the only way to get out of
7:22
that lifestyle, right, right. Or social status.
7:26
So I think that's a big reason why many Korean Americans push
7:31
their kids to work hard in school and do well do to be able
7:35
to get into the top ten schools, get a degree, be a doctor, be a
7:40
lawyer, be an engineer, whatever.
7:42
It is like the, you know, the typical track that the
7:45
immigrants want for their children, right?
7:48
So they bring that mindset of Korean education to America and
7:52
they live that out. What do you think about that?
7:58
I think that mindset I've seen so many times not honestly.
8:02
I think that's not just for immigrants.
8:05
I think it's all across Korean culture. 100% agree that parents
8:13
want best for their children. Right.
8:17
And even for me, I knew my parents were financially
8:24
difficult because of me and I felt the need to, you know, I
8:29
got to, I got to get all ASI got to get a scholarship, I got to
8:33
get. But at the end of the day,
8:38
education is important, but grades are not important.
8:45
Just because I get an A does not mean I know the material.
8:49
Everybody can get an A if they study, but are they studying the
8:53
right way? Not necessarily.
8:57
So, you know, for example, you know, I could pull all nighters
9:01
memorizing a biology concept, take the exam, get an A all that
9:08
knowledge just goes down the toilet.
9:10
I didn't try to learn the concept, synthesize something
9:13
new thing. I didn't try to apply it to
9:15
anything. I literally just memorized it
9:18
right. And that memorization, yes, you
9:20
can use it to get an A, but that doesn't mean that it's going to
9:24
stick with you. Like this is something that I
9:26
was really thinking hard as an educator.
9:29
How can I educate students to really learn something, not just
9:36
memorize it for the sake of getting good grades?
9:39
And I think that's something that a lot of parents, too, are
9:42
missing. A lot of kids are missing.
9:45
You know, if you really like something, you are going to find
9:48
whatever resources that you can get your hands on and you're
9:52
going to learn it, you're going to apply it and you're going to
9:54
achieve it. But that's not how our current
9:57
education allows our students to do.
9:59
I don't. I really don't think so.
10:02
So as I am listening to how you came to this understanding of
10:07
how you study and just because you get an A doesn't mean that
10:10
you learn. I absolutely agree with that.
10:12
But for many students to be on the fast track, you know, they
10:16
have to get the grades and they don't care, right?
10:19
Right. So it's very important, but like
10:22
disciplining your children, it takes so much time.
10:27
It does. Like, so I want to be on the
10:29
fast track, so I'll forget about it.
10:31
I'm just going to memorize everything, get an A&A and go
10:34
on. Or are we really lifelong
10:38
learners? Or do we really want our
10:42
children to be able to learn things and find the way that
10:47
they best learn? There's so much way ways to
10:53
approach education, so as an educator and a mom, what is the
10:58
biggest difference you think there is between Korean
11:02
education and American education?
11:05
I'm probably going to get so many comments for saying this
11:08
but I always do. But I think parents just need to
11:15
let their kids be Like literally, quite literally just
11:19
let them be. Let them be kids.
11:21
Let them have their own time to think about themselves.
11:26
Stop telling them what to do. Stop telling them what what the
11:31
parents think is best for them because it may not be right.
11:37
I think what I really appreciated from my parents was
11:42
they let me be. I think my parents kind of
11:45
didn't really have a choice but to let me be because we
11:49
literally had an ocean between us.
11:53
But I think that's what helped me just just having my own space
11:57
to think about what I want, think about what I like, think
12:03
about what type of person do I want to be, think about what
12:08
life I want. And also to internalize
12:13
everything I experienced, you know, and that I think is really
12:18
important. So whenever a parent comes to me
12:23
and ask for advice, I always tell them, just let your kids
12:27
be. Just give them, give them some
12:29
time. Then you know, they're going to
12:30
say, Oh, but you know, they're so young, they don't know, they
12:34
don't know like any better. And I'm like, maybe, but you
12:38
just got to give them a chance to think about it.
12:41
And if they need help, they're going to approach you.
12:44
Usually they do, they just need some time if and I think it's
12:49
just a natural human behavior when somebody nags on you saying
12:52
like, oh, you've got to do this, you've got to do that.
12:54
Like it's very natural to push back on it, right?
12:57
Like you're like me, you're like, stop nagging, stop telling
13:00
me what to do. And that's also, that's also
13:03
very, you know, same with like any other human interactions,
13:09
right? Like if my boss continues to nag
13:12
on me, I'm probably going to be like, you know what, I'm not
13:15
going to listen to you. I'm just going to do whatever I
13:16
want, right? And then I'm just going to run
13:18
the other way. And not that, you know, my
13:20
parents were nagging on me, but I think it was also the society
13:24
that was doing that, you know, directly telling me, but
13:27
indirectly, you know, it is a system, right?
13:30
So it's like, Oh my goodness. When I was in Korean high
13:33
school, one I still remember, one of the comment I got was
13:38
because in Korea you have to do yaza, right?
13:43
And during that time, I was reading a book and I get called
13:47
to the teacher's office and my teacher goes, you're always
13:52
reading a book during yaza time. Why are you not studying?
13:54
There's just so many unspoken roles in Korean society that
13:59
they are telling our kids that you have to take these steps to
14:02
achieve a success. But what is success?
14:05
Each person is a unique person. And everyone's definition of
14:11
success is different. Somebody's, you know, someone's
14:14
success could be, oh, I want to become a scholar.
14:18
Like I don't care about money, but I just want to become a
14:20
scholar. And then somebody else's success
14:23
could look like, oh, I want to have kids, you know, like that.
14:28
That could be a success. Like if I have kids, if I raise
14:31
them myself, if I homeschool them, that's my success.
14:36
Some for somebody, it could be making a lot of money, you know,
14:39
that could be a success. So everyone's success is
14:43
different. And yet in Korean society, for
14:46
whatever reason, everybody has the same goal as far as success
14:50
goes. And I think that's what's
14:52
causing this high competition. And when I say, you know, like
14:57
let the kids be, I think that's also the time when kids start to
15:00
think about, OK, what is my definition of success?
15:04
What do I want to become? To be happy with my life, to be
15:09
happy with my future, to be happy with everything.
15:14
And you know, that was like I'm saying, happy.
15:16
But I recently read this book called The Subtle Art of Not
15:23
Giving a Fuck by Mark Manson. I really love this because at
15:28
the very beginning of the book he talks about what do you have
15:31
to be happy? What is happiness?
15:34
You know, if you keep thinking about I have to be happy, I have
15:37
to be happy, then, you know, you kind of lose the purpose of
15:41
being happy. It's kind of what he says.
15:42
And I really resonated with that.
15:44
And yes, you know, I just said happy.
15:47
But I think it's really more of are you satisfied with your
15:50
life? You know, do you have the
15:52
satisfaction about yourself? And it becomes more of like
15:58
Tatungam issue. What's Tatungam in England?
16:01
Yes. What's Tatungam in English?
16:06
Yes, self esteem. Thank you.
16:12
Just woman like the E sushi I think is her name.
16:16
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like with the TE Chidong Oma?
16:21
Yeah, yeah, I've seen that she's.
16:23
So brilliant. Oh my goodness, yeah.
16:25
Yeah. And I thought it was so funny
16:27
because I mean, I haven't been in any Korean like community
16:32
like that at all, so I'm not aware.
16:34
But I'm sure this is pretty true with all this craze about
16:39
sending their like babies to young one, right?
16:43
But she the, the sketch is that she wears this Montclair jacket
16:48
and carries a Chanel bag and you know, like all these things like
16:53
sending her like baby. I guess I think it's probably a
16:56
toddler because she talks about diaper like a toilet training to
17:01
like Kagwon and and all kinds of stuff.
17:09
And then she talks to like the tutor, the the American or
17:13
English speaking tutors in like, you know, hi, Georgie.
17:16
Like stuff like this. I found this so funny.
17:20
Yeah. Yeah.
17:20
But the one thing that really caught my attention was when
17:24
she's talking to her kid, Jamie in the car about we don't do
17:28
that. Yeah, it's so funny because like
17:33
I used to teach like parenting classes and this is kind of type
17:37
of things that we teach, like instead of yelling.
17:41
Yeah. Backstop or don't do that, we
17:44
gently approached. Yeah, yeah.
17:46
Teach them how to speak and, you know, be considerate and all
17:50
these things. So it was so brilliant.
17:52
But I think that the whole sketch, it really illustrates
17:57
how Korean mother or Korean parents think because one, we
18:04
don't want to be left behind, right?
18:07
And, you know, we want our children to be successful and
18:11
which for most of us equals happiness.
18:16
But I think also because it feels them less anxiety, give
18:23
them the safe net where it's also true the feeling of safe
18:28
net that oh, my kid is going to be OK, right?
18:31
It's so competitive, Korean society and and the Korean
18:35
people bring that here to it. Look how many Hogwans we have in
18:39
the big. Big cities, right?
18:42
Oh, not even cities. So I live on a in a very suburb
18:46
area in Alabama, right. And we, we have Korean hogwans
18:52
here and we have a lot of moms looking for tutors too.
18:55
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm like, like, Oh my God.
18:59
I still remember like recently there was a mom looking for a
19:03
math tutor for her four year old.
19:06
And I was like, what kind of math tutor does a four year old
19:14
need? Like for counting or like what?
19:17
What do you need for them? Like?
19:19
And my mom was one of those people who just did not let
19:26
others get her. That being said, yes, she
19:32
probably was anxious a little bit.
19:34
She was worried a little bit. But she just had this.
19:38
Really strong mind that just because you send your kids to
19:41
Hagwan does not mean they're going to be successful.
19:45
So I never went to Hagwan unless I really asked her.
19:48
You know, I would ask, hey mom, I'm not doing well in math, can
19:51
I get a tutor for maybe a month? Want to be grounded as parents,
19:56
right? OK, let me give you a scenario.
20:00
I don't know if you are a part of a Korean community, but I
20:03
feel like you would run into this a lot.
20:06
Uh huh. You know?
20:07
There we go. Kimbak Sannim.
20:09
Doctor Kim. Right.
20:13
Yeah. My child is in high school or
20:17
middle school. He's he's pretty smart.
20:20
You know, that does really well in school.
20:22
I really want to help him get into top schools and become a
20:29
PhD as yourself. I'm sorry, right?
20:35
What should I do as his mom? Oh my goodness to them.
20:40
I would tell them to talk to their kids about it.
20:44
Is that what they want? Do does your kids want to become
20:48
a doctor? Do they want to become a PhD?
20:52
If so, first of all, becoming a PhD versus becoming a doctor MD,
20:58
very different route. So needs requires very different
21:02
skill sets. Like that's the very first thing
21:05
that I would say. Why do you want your kids to
21:08
become PhD or doctor? And do the kids want to become a
21:14
PhD or doctor? Is that truly what they want to?
21:19
Honestly, talking to the parents about the kids doesn't help at
21:22
all. And only when I talk to the
21:26
children, only when I talk to the students is when I can truly
21:30
give the parents OK. These are the support that he's
21:32
going to need or she's going to need.
21:34
From my experience and from everybody else's experience that
21:39
I know of, being good at school doesn't guarantee you anything.
21:44
It's more of have you had the experience of whatever And some
21:49
of the kids, they know, they already know.
21:52
They are so smart. I know.
21:55
So yeah. If you have one of those kids,
21:57
don't worry, right? Yeah, exactly, exactly most.
22:00
Of us don't. And, you know, if they don't,
22:02
that's OK. You know, that's very normal.
22:05
But then your job is to think about how can you get your kids
22:10
to have that road map? And I think, like for me, I
22:16
think what is most effective is modeling.
22:21
Like when your kids see you, how you progress, how you approach
22:26
your career, how you are living your life, that's when kids
22:30
start to think, OK, that's what my mom is doing.
22:33
That's what my dad is doing. Let me do the same for myself.
22:36
I think modeling is probably the best parenting you can give you
22:42
can do, in my opinion. For sure.
22:46
I think so, yeah. Recently somebody, I think it
22:49
was like yesterday or something, someone had asked on threads
22:54
that their child who their baby who is like 13 months or 14
22:59
months is struggling so much because he gets really upset
23:04
when he cannot put puzzles together.
23:07
Like he gets real upset. And she wasn't sure how to
23:11
encourage him to not be so disappointed.
23:15
Like how do you approach that? So I said this is just something
23:20
that I've been doing with my son.
23:21
It has helped with helped him with resilience and that, you
23:28
know, behavior where you know, he stopped throwing things when
23:31
he gets frustrated was that I modeled him what how I deal with
23:36
frustration. You know, I would intentionally
23:39
do something incorrectly and let out the frustration and then
23:44
just try it again. And I would intentionally do it
23:48
incorrectly several times until I got it right and then said,
23:53
Hooray, I did it. And you know, when I at first,
23:58
you know, he still was like, what the heck are you doing?
24:01
But then eventually he learned it and now he'll the way he
24:06
approaches things is he'll try it first and he'll try it
24:10
several times until he gets it. But if he still doesn't get it
24:15
after trying it for like 3 times, he'll ask for help.
24:18
He'll say instead of throwing it on the ground, he'll say mommy,
24:22
I need help. And I say, OK let me help you.
24:26
Do you want to do it together or do you want mommy to do it?
24:29
And he'll either say together or you do it.
24:33
And if he says you do it, then I'm going to do it for him.
24:35
But sometimes I will still encourage him to, OK, let's,
24:38
let's try to do it together. And, you know, I would hold his
24:41
hand and, you know, try to do it with him.
24:44
So yeah, I think that goes with just in general, like even with
24:50
high school or middle school kids, if they see you being so
24:54
miserable with your life, with your career, that's probably
24:59
good. That's probably how they're
25:00
going to approach their career too.
25:02
They're probably going to think, OK, there's no such thing as
25:06
happiness in career. Like in a job, you know, working
25:09
for corporate or, you know, getting into Med school,
25:11
whatever. But hey, it's paying good money,
25:15
so maybe that's what I need to do.
25:16
Or, you know, that's something that my dad's doing.
25:18
That's what. And usually that's how it
25:20
happens, right? A lot of kids, you know, they
25:23
would choose their career because that's something they're
25:26
they're most familiar with. So I think it's really important
25:30
for the parents to say, OK, if I like, let's think about my
25:35
career, this is how I would make a road map for myself.
25:39
So now let's have you do it. What do you want to do?
25:43
How do you want? How do you want to achieve that?
25:45
What are your goals? OK, OK, so these are what you
25:48
need to achieve. Then what kind of schools do you
25:49
want to go to? Just because you go to good
25:52
school, does that mean that you're going to get achieve that
25:54
goal? Yes.
25:55
Then let's try to go for it. No.
25:57
Then let's look at other options, you know?
26:00
So I think it's really important to do it together probably.
26:04
That is so good. Good, good tip.
26:07
Thanks, I'm glad. And I think it's also important
26:14
for us to put it out there that you know, for those parents who
26:18
are running dry cleaning business or whatever business,
26:22
right small business that how they approach their business
26:26
growth and customer care and self-care, those things are
26:31
modeling as well. Oh yes.
26:33
For sure, yeah. I, I don't think it's necessary
26:37
for parents who are not in some sort of a professional field to
26:40
say, oh, I have nothing to model.
26:42
But your patience, your, your communication, growth mindset,
26:46
your creativity of how you approach is modeling.
26:51
And children watch and they know, Oh yeah, like you said
26:55
about your mother-in-law, how she really enjoys what she does
26:59
and she's proud of her business. So those are the things that we
27:02
model as well as a 1.5 Gen. Korean American mom.
27:09
They're still very young, they're still babies, but as
27:11
they grow, what is that parenting approach that you
27:15
would like to take? For me, it's really being me
27:21
acting as a safety net for them. I want them to realize that they
27:28
can go out into the world, try whatever that they want to try.
27:35
And if they fail, that's OK. They can just come back to me.
27:40
They can come back to the house to home and say mom, I failed
27:46
and I will tell them it's OK, it happened.
27:50
Let's think about it. We can, you know, you always
27:54
learn from failure, so let's not call it a failure and let's call
27:59
it a learning lesson and see what you have learned.
28:02
You can try again as a parent, something that I have always
28:06
thought since probably very young age applies.
28:10
I want to become a mom like my mom.
28:12
The only thing that I might do it a little differently is have
28:17
my own career because I think my mom put too much into supporting
28:22
us. She did not necessarily get to
28:24
her get her own career. Like and also something that I
28:29
try to tell myself is my kids, they're a different person than
28:34
I am. Just because I'm their mom does
28:36
not mean I can't expect them to be like me.
28:40
They get to make their own choices, but I want to let them
28:43
know that you got to own up to your choices, whether it's good
28:46
or bad. I had a great mom, and, you
28:48
know, she had her own flaws, too.
28:50
But in general, you know, she was amazing mom.
28:53
She still is. She's my comfort zone, and
28:56
that's probably what I want to become, too.
28:58
And yeah, I think a lot of my parenting style comes from her.
29:02
What a great modeling you have. Yes, exactly.
29:06
That's great. You're so blessed.
29:08
I mean, some of us have to figure out own ways because
29:11
there was no modeling knowing that you have a safe place to
29:15
return to such a huge comfort. But something I do want to say,
29:22
I know all parents want best for their children.
29:28
So I do want to say that everyone's doing great.
29:33
Everyone's doing everything they can in their power, but at the
29:40
end, they're on their own person.
29:42
You can't force them to do anything if they are doing
29:47
something that you want to, you want them to do right now,
29:50
that's probably they're trying to please their parents.
29:54
And that may burst at certain age, could be in their 20s,
29:59
thirties, 40s, fifties, doesn't matter.
30:03
It'll happen at one point. So just give just trust the
30:08
children that they're your children, right?
30:11
So I think if the parents trust their kids a little more, I'm
30:15
sure that relationship will be much better.
30:18
Can you talk about how you came to a conclusion that the kid is
30:22
doing whatever is pleasing to the parents at this moment in
30:25
May 1st at certain time? I think having a lot of people
30:32
going through something similar around me.
30:35
So like 1 of it was my brother. Even though we grew up in the
30:40
same household, Even though we have exact same parents.
30:45
Unfortunately because I basically left the house at an
30:50
early age and he was the only one there.
30:54
So he got more attention from my parents, right?
30:58
And to my parents I was more proactive person whereas he
31:04
knitted A nudge all the time. Even though my mom thought it
31:08
was a simple nudge, I think it was a push than a nudge.
31:13
And it also drove my brother to think, OK, I need to become a
31:21
doctor to please my dad because my sister doesn't want to become
31:25
a doctor. I need to become a doctor
31:27
because that's what all my dad's friends are.
31:30
I need to become a doctor because I want to make a lot of
31:34
money to support my mom is a read.
31:37
That can be a reason. But it's like there's no I in
31:41
that, right? There's no I want to do this
31:44
because I want to do it to him. It was just always a doctor.
31:47
And then of course, you know, when he went to medical school,
31:50
I still remember Greg, you know, right before he was graduating,
31:53
he goes, I don't think I'm cut out for a doctor.
31:57
And even now, even till this day, you know, he's a practicing
32:01
Dr. and he's like, I don't know what discipline I want to go
32:06
into. It's always external reasons.
32:09
Where are you in at all of these decisions?
32:12
And it just makes me really frustrating.
32:14
He was always a mom pleaser as we were growing up and he still
32:19
is, which was really unfortunate.
32:22
You know, he tries to say all the right things to mom and
32:27
then, you know, he would come back to me and say the real
32:30
stuff, which is very concerning to me.
32:33
And then, you know, I would go to my mom and say, these are the
32:36
concerns I have for him. And and then she'll go, why do
32:40
you always talk bad about your brother?
32:44
And I'm like, OK, I can't share all the conversations that we
32:48
had because he doesn't want you to know.
32:50
But there are a lot of things that you don't know about him.
32:54
So even with the same parent, depending on how you parent
32:58
them, how you model things, you're going to have a different
33:03
outcome. So they're traits too, the
33:07
child. Oh yes, so I know, I know.
33:12
Yeah, you know for sure. Oh, yeah.
33:16
The biggest example that I can provide is my brother.
33:19
But I've also seen a lot of that from people that I've met.
33:24
And it'll come down to, OK, I got into Samsung because my
33:28
parents wanted me to. But am I happy?
33:30
I'm not. I'm going to quit.
33:31
You know, I got a PhD because my parents wanted me to.
33:34
Do I like it? Do I am I happy?
33:36
Nope. I'm going to quit.
33:38
I've seen so many of those cases and usually come down to they
33:42
were always trying so hard to make their parents happy, but
33:49
they weren't happy and they come to this extreme conclusion.
33:54
Especially so in immigrant families because the children
33:59
see how much sacrifice their parents are making.
34:03
Yes. So many second generation 1.5
34:06
generation so successful went to all the right schools, got all
34:10
the right jobs Yeah, but they're not happy.
34:13
So they extreme right. I, I see these folks around me
34:19
and through this podcast and I have grown children.
34:24
I have to keep reminding myself, yes, they're, they're their own
34:28
people, their own person, individuals.
34:30
They have to figure out their own ways, even though sometimes
34:35
it's frustrating watching them and as as a parent, it's very,
34:38
very difficult sometimes to just watch them, you know, navigating
34:44
through their own life. But I think for as parents, we,
34:47
we still have to remind ourselves that all the time,
34:50
every day, right? Even no matter how old your
34:54
children is, right? And I think that's the hard part
34:57
of parenting. Right.
34:59
I think something I try to remember all the time, not just
35:03
with parenting but just in life in general.
35:05
And I think this was also an approach when I was teaching
35:11
students at a university, was thinking about myself.
35:15
How was I at that age? Oh yeah, no, I yeah, I fail
35:20
sometimes, but at least, of course we try.
35:22
I. Mean how can we not?
35:23
Right exactly? But I think in parenting
35:26
education, everything in life is just practice.
35:30
Oh yeah. We fail and we try again.
35:32
I think that's the important thing that we have to remember.
35:35
We try again. Yeah, for sure, for sure.
35:38
Awesome. Well, it was so fun talking to
35:40
you. Yes, well, thanks for having me.
35:43
It was so much fun. Well, thanks so much for your
35:45
time and joining me on this podcast.
35:48
Don't forget to follow, like and comment and subscribe to our
35:52
channel so that we will continue this so much.