Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Long Island Serial Killer Suspect's Wife Gets 'Million Dollar Deal' from Peacock

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Long Island Serial Killer Suspect's Wife Gets 'Million Dollar Deal' from Peacock · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grease?
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Speaker 2: Does it never end with this guy? I'm talking about
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Speaker 2: Rex Huerman, aka the Prime Suspect and the Long Island
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Speaker 2: serial killer murders. Let me just give you an example.
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Speaker 2: He's enjoying behind bars Italian sausage, green beans with potatoes,
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Speaker 2: seasoned veggies, and macaroni salad. Nobody's cooking that for me,
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Speaker 2: but they are for him as he spends two to
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Speaker 2: three hours a day coming over discovery provided by the state,
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Speaker 2: including secret grand jury testimony. Oh and did I mention
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Speaker 2: his wife has just signed a one million dollar deal
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Speaker 2: with Peacock. Does it pay to be a serial killer?
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Speaker 2: I'm Nancy Grease, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for
1:00
Speaker 2: being with us here at Crime Stories and on series six,
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Speaker 2: sem one eleven.
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Speaker 3: In the last weeks, Rex Huerman in court.
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Speaker 2: Now, guess who shows up for the first time and
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Speaker 2: shows up? May I add and style?
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Speaker 3: Listen?
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Speaker 4: When Asa Eleup showed up for one of Huerman's recent
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Speaker 4: court appearances, she arrived in a silver Mercedes, was equipped
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Speaker 4: with the Lavalier microphone and a Peacock documentary crew in
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Speaker 4: tow ellierp was seen smiling in court as she was
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Speaker 4: seated with her attorney, Bob Macedonia, and an interviewer from
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Speaker 4: the documentary crew. Ellrep even smiled and nodded at Huerman
1:40
Speaker 4: when he turned and smiled at her before leaving the
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Speaker 4: court room.
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Speaker 2: Okay, hold on, I think my hearing is finally going
1:48
Speaker 2: because I thought I heard that she showed up in
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Speaker 2: a silver Mercedes and smiled at the guy she hasn't
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Speaker 2: visited one time, the guy who allegedly is torturing and
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Speaker 2: murdering sex or in their home. Jackie, could you please
2:04
Speaker 2: play that again?
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Speaker 3: I must have misheard it.
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Speaker 4: When Asa Elerap showed up for one of Hureman's recent
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Speaker 4: court appearances. She arrived in a silver Mercedes, was equipped
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Speaker 4: at the Lavalier microphone, and a peacock documentary crew in tow.
2:16
Speaker 4: Ellerp was seen smiling in court as she was seated
2:19
Speaker 4: with her attorney, Bob Macedonia and an interviewer from the
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Speaker 4: documentary crew. Elerap even smiled and nodded at Huerman when
2:25
Speaker 4: he turned and smiled at her before leaving the courtroom.
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Speaker 3: Okay, I heard correctly.
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Speaker 2: The wife who claimed that she was bankrupt, and I
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Speaker 2: believe even has started a GoFundMe to support herself is
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Speaker 2: showing up in a silver Mercedes with a Lavalier mi
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Speaker 2: Con and a camera crew all done up. Really okay,
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Speaker 2: is this Asa Eleirap or is this Kim Kardashkan being
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Speaker 2: Megan and Harry. You remember every time they show up
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Speaker 2: in New York, there's a camera crew chasing them around.
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Speaker 2: Charlie Langston joined me, us editor for dailymail dot Com.
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Speaker 5: What I mean, things have certainly taken a turn for
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Speaker 5: miss Ella up Let us not forget that just a
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Speaker 5: few weeks ago she was seen looking I mean absolutely
3:14
Speaker 5: kind of out of things. She was disheveled, she was crying,
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Speaker 5: And now all of a sudden, she's turning up at court,
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Speaker 5: as you said, like an A list superstar. She's accompanied
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Speaker 5: by cameras, she's smiling. She was even seen laughing with
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Speaker 5: the Peacock interviewer. And that is because her life has
3:31
Speaker 5: taken a pretty drastic turn in the last couple of weeks. Now, obviously,
3:36
Speaker 5: having your husband suspected of multiple murders is not that
3:40
Speaker 5: easy to deal with, but she's now got the cushion
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Speaker 5: of a one million dollar Peacock documentary deal, Plus her
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Speaker 5: husband recently signed over their five hundred and thirty thousand
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Speaker 5: dollars home to her for zero dollars. So her life
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Speaker 5: has really kind of taken, you know, as much as
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Speaker 5: it can a few positive steps forwards.
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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, what did you say? A few positive steps?
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Speaker 2: A million dollar deal, a camera crew chasing her around,
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Speaker 2: and her husband signed over half a million dollar home
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Speaker 2: to her. Some would argue in a bid so the
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Speaker 2: murder victims families can't get at it.
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Speaker 3: Okay, you know what to Joseph.
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Speaker 2: Jack Alone, I think you'll be able to agree with
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Speaker 2: me on this, or at least empathize with what I'm
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Speaker 2: about to say, because you're a former NYPD sergeant, author
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Speaker 2: of the cold Case handbook, The Criminal Investigative Function, a
4:35
Speaker 2: guide for an investigators, podcast hosts of a hit series
4:39
Speaker 2: True Crime with the Sergeant. I mean, I can go
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Speaker 2: on and on and on, but my point is you've
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Speaker 2: been in the trenches just like me. I've seen crime
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Speaker 2: victims suffering, trying to deal with the loss of their mother,
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Speaker 2: their daughter, and in such a horrible way. Because you know,
5:00
Speaker 2: if these allegations are true, he rex Huerman murdered unarmed,
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Speaker 2: defensive women as he was raping them and beating them
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Speaker 2: and binding them and torturing them and killing them. Many
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Speaker 2: of them had children that to this day don't really
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Speaker 2: know what happened to Mommy can't bear to think about
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Speaker 2: her last moments being raped and tortured by Rex Huerman
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Speaker 2: and now Asa Ellerup has a million dollar peacock deal
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Speaker 2: and they're suddenly exchanging smiles and loving glances in court
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Speaker 2: when she hasn't visited him one time until the cameras
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Speaker 2: shut up. I don't know Joe jacquelone. It just I
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Speaker 2: want good things for her. But the irony that nobody
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Speaker 2: gives a flying fig about the crime victims' families that
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Speaker 2: grew up without him, that doesn't bother you. After all
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Speaker 2: the crime victims you've seen.
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Speaker 6: Absolutely it's what's happening is absolutely abysmal.
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Speaker 2: I mean it's bass awkwards, that's what it is.
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Speaker 3: Pass awkwards.
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Speaker 6: Yeah, we have gotten away from being victim centric in
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Speaker 6: our society, and it's always should have been that way,
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Speaker 6: and it should continue to be that way. And we
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Speaker 6: shouldn't be rewarding people. I don't care if it's family
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Speaker 6: members or not for the deeds of their loved ones.
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Speaker 7: Let's put it that way.
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Speaker 6: The issue that really comes down to is that these
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Speaker 6: families have been struggling for decades and the problem is
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Speaker 6: that they had just gotten some breaks. Right the new
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Speaker 6: police administration, Rodney Harrison, comes in, takes charge, you know,
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Speaker 6: some of the cases of being south and then you know,
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Speaker 6: unfortunately he's leaving, and we see this now happening, and
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Speaker 6: we always seem to forget about the victims. And the
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Speaker 6: victims should always be front and center. I mean, you
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Speaker 6: don't even even the media is not even interviewing them
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Speaker 6: or reaching out to them and saying, hey, let me
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Speaker 6: hear your story. It just has never happened in this case.
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Speaker 6: And I know what John is here. I mean, it
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Speaker 6: wasn't for John Ray, this case would have been died
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Speaker 6: in the media a long time ago.
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Speaker 2: Oh and speaking of John Ray, you know what, that's
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Speaker 2: another thing I like about you, Jack alone, You're not
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Speaker 2: a camera hog. You know, you're calling out John Ray,
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Speaker 2: who has gone so far in advancing this case.
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Speaker 3: John Ray is with us.
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Speaker 2: He's the family lawyer for Shannon Gilbert, who I believe
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Speaker 2: was murdered by Rex Huerman. And while the wife John
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Speaker 2: is planning what she's gonna do with that million dollars
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Speaker 2: and the five hundred thousand dollars house that's been signed
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Speaker 2: over to her. You are out there finding witnesses that
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Speaker 2: are absolutely linking two women, Shannon Gilbert and Karen Vigotta,
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Speaker 2: to rex Huerman.
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Speaker 3: So where's the indictments?
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Speaker 2: Hey? Hey, John Ray, high profile lawyer joining us. You
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Speaker 2: can find him at John Ray Law dot Nette. John,
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Speaker 2: listen to this from our friends at crime on line
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Speaker 2: dot com.
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Speaker 4: At least one million dollars that's how much rex Huerman's
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Speaker 4: family will reportedly be paid for taking part in an
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Speaker 4: upcoming documentary for Peacock NBC. It's a Ellerp and her
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Speaker 4: two grown children with the accused Long Island serial killer,
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Speaker 4: have agreed to sell their life rights shadowing the family
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Speaker 4: during Humorman's upcoming trial for the murders of three sex workers.
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Speaker 3: One million dollars.
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Speaker 2: Okay, John Ray, you have brought to light multiple eyewitnesses
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Speaker 2: and they're not all sex workers. And listen, John, I
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Speaker 2: spent a lot of time as a felony prosecutor in
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Speaker 2: strip bars and going up and down the strip in
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Speaker 2: just outside intercity Atlanta, speaking to sex workers, trying to
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Speaker 2: develop cases all sorts of cases, drug cases, prostitution cases,
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Speaker 2: child sex ring cases you name it, and the fact
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Speaker 2: that many of these victims sex workers. That means nothing
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Speaker 2: to me, and I'm very distressed that anyone would place
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Speaker 2: less value on their lives. They have daughters, sons, moms, dads,
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Speaker 2: grandparents that have never known what happened to them, and
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Speaker 2: their pain is real. But I want to hear from you,
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Speaker 2: John Ray, your reaction to a million dollar peacock deal
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Speaker 2: reported million dollar deal for Asa Elrup.
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Speaker 8: Well, it's what I've been seeing from the start. This
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Speaker 8: miss Ellerup is a sociopath and she certainly is in
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Speaker 8: the circle of suspect.
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Speaker 3: So why would you call her associate?
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Speaker 2: First of all, Now, I know you've got your JD
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Speaker 2: and you're a high profile trial lawyer, but I don't
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Speaker 2: believe you have your degree in psychology, right correct? Okay,
9:57
Speaker 2: hold on, hold on. Dr Bethany Marshall joining me right now, psychoanalyst.
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Speaker 2: You can find her at doctor Bethanymarshall dot com. She
10:06
Speaker 2: is in a brand new film project, Doctor Bethany What
10:13
Speaker 2: is now?
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Speaker 3: John Ray?
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Speaker 2: Maybe he's right. I don't know because I'm certainly not
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Speaker 2: a shrink. What did you say, psychopath or sociopath? John?
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Speaker 8: I said, sociopath and also suspect.
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Speaker 2: Oh now, suspect catches my attention a lot more than sociopath. Okay,
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Speaker 2: go ahead, doctor Bethany. Sociopath what is that?
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Speaker 7: Well, sociopath is somebody somebody who has a it's a
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Speaker 7: disorder of detachment. They have a complete lack of remorse.
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Speaker 7: They're callous, their cold, they're parasitic. They suck off of
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Speaker 7: other people.
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Speaker 2: Often parasitic.
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Speaker 7: They're parasitic.
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Speaker 2: Okay, go ahead.
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Speaker 7: They live off of other people. And you know often
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Speaker 7: they use cruelty, which is interwoven with sexuality, so killing
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Speaker 7: people at the same time as you know, maybe having
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Speaker 7: some kind of a masturbatory fantasy.
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Speaker 2: Can I ask how do you work masturbation into every question?
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Speaker 7: I ask you because this is basically a sex crime. Okay,
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Speaker 7: serial killing is all about sexual compulsivity, and correct Leigh
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Speaker 7: in about these wives really quickly. You know, you have
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Speaker 7: an asat ellerup who is smiling. She has like a
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Speaker 7: million reasons to smile right now, and she's pretty remorseless
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Speaker 7: and callous towards the victims. And thousands of serial killers
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Speaker 7: seem to fall into one of two categories. Either you
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Speaker 7: have the ast elerups who really have a corruption of
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Speaker 7: conscience along with the husband. We saw this with J. C.
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Speaker 7: Dugard's hold on.
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Speaker 2: I need to write that down corruption, I'm conscious, Okay,
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Speaker 2: hold on, go ahead. Now.
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Speaker 3: Many people would.
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Speaker 2: Argue that she she is was a battered woman. I
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Speaker 2: don't know that to be true or not. I don't
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Speaker 2: know if I could go so far as to call
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Speaker 2: her a suspect guilty. Knowledge does not aspect make Did
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Speaker 2: she aid in a bet? That's a whole other can
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Speaker 2: of worms. Go ahead.
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Speaker 7: Well, she doesn't appear to be an abuse victim right now.
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Speaker 7: She seems to have kind of a superior, smug attitude
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Speaker 7: towards the victim. She's monetizing their death. So think of
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Speaker 7: JC Douguard, who was kept in the captor's backyard. The
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Speaker 7: captor and his wife would hold religious services, bring j. C.
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Speaker 7: Du Guard in all the time that the husband was
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Speaker 7: raping jac. So the wife knew about it, she sanctioned it,
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Speaker 7: she overlooked it. And compare that to the wife of
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Speaker 7: the BTK killer. We've never heard much from her at all.
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Speaker 7: She's ashamed, she was passive, she was firmly under his control.
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Speaker 7: So on the one hand, you have the abused wife
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Speaker 7: who pretty much knows nothing and is in a state
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Speaker 7: of shock. And then you have the wives who similarly
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Speaker 7: feel that kind of that the victims have it coming
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Speaker 7: to them and take some secret delight in what's happening
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Speaker 7: to the victim.
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Speaker 2: Speaking of the wife as a potential suspect who now
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Speaker 2: has a million dollar deal with Peacock, take a listen
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Speaker 2: to our cut two three eight.
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Speaker 4: The wife of Rex Huerman has not been accused of
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Speaker 4: any wrongdoing by police. They've even gone so far as
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Speaker 4: to say they believe she was out of town when
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Speaker 4: the murders of the Gilgil four were committed. However, in
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Speaker 4: an interview with the US Sun, attorney John Ray points
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Speaker 4: out he doesn't see how it's possible to ignore or
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Speaker 4: refuse to investigate Asa Elerap in light of the purported
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Speaker 4: evidence he has uncovered. Interesting to point out hair's belonging
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Speaker 4: to Ellrop were found on at least three of the women,
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Speaker 4: helping lead detectives back to Humorman.
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Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace, Is there right, Charlie Langston?
14:02
Speaker 2: Hairs found on three of the victims, and how many
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Speaker 2: of those hairs do we believe belong to Asa Ella Up?
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Speaker 3: The wife that is correct.
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Speaker 5: Multiple hairs were found on the victims that belonged to
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Speaker 5: human's wife, Asa, and that was actually one of the
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Speaker 5: things that linked him to the victims in the first place.
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Speaker 5: So you know, I think you can you can say
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Speaker 5: one of many different things, and I'm sure that there
14:27
Speaker 5: are some experts here who will be able to give
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Speaker 5: you better informed information than I can. But how you
14:33
Speaker 5: can fail to investigate her completely seems absolutely wild to me.
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Speaker 6: Surely they would want.
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Speaker 5: To look into what she knew and whether she was
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Speaker 5: connected to any of the victims, because at the end
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Speaker 5: of the day, she had physical evidence on their bodies
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Speaker 5: that links her to three dead women.
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Speaker 2: It's not just the hair, which we are understanding, and
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Speaker 2: this will be made clear in court, that her hair
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Speaker 2: is found on three of the victims.
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Speaker 3: Take a listen now to our cut two two eight.
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Speaker 9: The fourth comes from another state. She was a sex
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Speaker 9: worker for many years. She said that she would service
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Speaker 9: rex Uomen over twenty times, and that he would he
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Speaker 9: was a serial user of sex workers. He would sometimes
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Speaker 9: have him come two at a time to his house
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Speaker 9: and his wife was home upstairs, and in one instance
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Speaker 9: got very angry at one of the sex workers because
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Speaker 9: the wife believed that the worker had stolen an iron
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Speaker 9: from you know, for ironing clothes, and had had it
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Speaker 9: in the car with the driver, So the driver had
15:39
Speaker 9: to get out, everybody had to search the car. There
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Speaker 9: was no iron, but the wife knew about it and
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Speaker 9: knew about obviously what was going on in order for
15:46
Speaker 9: that to happen.
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Speaker 2: John Ray joining us the lawyer for the family of
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Speaker 2: Shannon Gilbert. And I'm still waiting on that indictment because
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Speaker 2: now you have managed to dig up witnesses not necessary
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Speaker 2: early in the sex business that connect Hureman, place Hureman
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Speaker 2: with Shannon Gilbert and Karen Forgata.
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Speaker 3: What more do they need it?
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Speaker 2: I mean, do they really believe another serial killer came
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Speaker 2: in and disposed of bodies where Rex Huerman had been
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Speaker 2: disposing a body that doesn't even make any sense. It's
16:23
Speaker 2: astronomically unlikely that that happened, and now eyewitnesses are linking them.
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Speaker 2: So explain your theory that Elrop is actually a suspect.
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Speaker 2: Guilty knowledge does not a suspect make, But.
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Speaker 8: She's more than guilty knowledge. First of all, I say suspect,
16:43
Speaker 8: I didn't say convict. And because she has four hairs
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Speaker 8: actually that turn up on the three bodies. One of
16:51
Speaker 8: those hairs turns up on the belt, the same as
16:54
Speaker 8: beult dealing with friended burns. And you know, for those
16:59
Speaker 8: here to get there and all of them beyond the
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Speaker 8: different bodies all at once is to me a very
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Speaker 8: strong case for her being a suspect. And it's not
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Speaker 8: hair that just fell off of Rex. That's extremely unlikely.
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Speaker 8: But in any event, we have that, Plus we have
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Speaker 8: this completely conscienceless approach that she's had from day one
17:22
Speaker 8: when she get into this case. She is a they
17:26
Speaker 8: said a sociopath about that, but she's also Everything she
17:30
Speaker 8: says and does indicates that she is conscience less. She
17:34
Speaker 8: has no conscience. That's a precondition as well, because that
17:38
Speaker 8: puts her in the circle of suspects. There has to
17:40
Speaker 8: be more found out about her. But we have other
17:43
Speaker 8: witnesses who say, oh, she's having a you know, she's
17:47
Speaker 8: with her husband. They go and have their haircut together,
17:50
Speaker 8: they travel together. This is not an abused woman. And
17:53
Speaker 8: yet we have witnesses, eyewitnesses who put her in the
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Speaker 8: room with her husband when these multiple sex situations are
18:03
Speaker 8: going on in this teeny weeny little house. So how
18:08
Speaker 8: does that tie in. Well, it puts her closer and
18:11
Speaker 8: closer to the center of the problem, which is the murders.
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Speaker 8: And here she is apparently also involving herself and swinging
18:20
Speaker 8: as well, according to one of the witnesses, so with
18:23
Speaker 8: her husband. That is so we have here also something
18:27
Speaker 8: else about these two people, she and her husband, and
18:30
Speaker 8: they are high risk takers. And you might wonder what
18:33
Speaker 8: happened to all their money. The guy made of four
18:35
Speaker 8: hundred million dollars over the course of years. Where did
18:37
Speaker 8: the money go? Well, we now have a new witness
18:40
Speaker 8: has come forward and says he spends his time sitting
18:43
Speaker 8: in certain gambling places Mohican Mohegan up in Connecticut. He's
18:50
Speaker 8: there for hours and hours. He's a gambler. They are gamblers,
18:53
Speaker 8: they are risk takers. This woman has no conscience, so
18:56
Speaker 8: she can take the risks that she's taking. Think about
19:00
Speaker 8: this every time she talks to Peacock, whatever she says
19:03
Speaker 8: to them. Eventually the district attorney is going to be
19:07
Speaker 8: able to subpoena records of what she said and why
19:11
Speaker 8: all of that's on the table. And then she's got
19:12
Speaker 8: two lawyers who are getting paid to have her expose
19:15
Speaker 8: herself like this, it's bizarre, and it's bizarre because the
19:20
Speaker 8: whole case is bizarre.
19:21
Speaker 2: Another issue about what you just said, John Ray, is
19:23
Speaker 2: the husband wife marital privilege. Much of what prosecutors may
19:29
Speaker 2: want to ask Asa eller Up would be disallowed in
19:33
Speaker 2: court because Rex Huerman, the defendant, would jump up his
19:37
Speaker 2: lawyer with anyway and claim marital privilege. The defendant is
19:42
Speaker 2: the one that claims the privilege, not the witness, not her. However,
19:47
Speaker 2: if she pierces the privilege, my divulging to producers or
19:52
Speaker 2: anyone else, much less on camera private conversations, private observations,
20:00
Speaker 2: has relinquished the privilege. So I guarantee you there will
20:05
Speaker 2: be a court battle for not only the footage that
20:09
Speaker 2: they film, but everything as Eleup says to producers, to assistants,
20:16
Speaker 2: to camera people. You name anything that she says that
20:20
Speaker 2: could pierce the privilege. Could you boil that down?
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Speaker 8: Yeah? I mean basically, what will happen is that everything
20:28
Speaker 8: she says, not not only the peacock, but including her lawyers,
20:33
Speaker 8: that will lose the privilege. When she's saying things to
20:36
Speaker 8: a third party in front, in the presence of her
20:39
Speaker 8: attorneys and with their consentants, especially so so they lose
20:44
Speaker 8: their privilege as well. That you know, the attorney client
20:46
Speaker 8: privilege disappears along with the disappearance of the husband wife privilege.
20:51
Speaker 8: There'll be no more privileges now that she's going into
20:53
Speaker 8: Peacock and doing this.
20:54
Speaker 2: I want to circle back to the hair nother Kendall
20:58
Speaker 2: Crowns is joining US Chief Medical Examiner Terreant County. That's
21:01
Speaker 2: Fort Worth Lecturer, University of Texas Austin and Texas Christian
21:05
Speaker 2: University Medical School.
21:07
Speaker 3: Doctor Crowns, thank.
21:08
Speaker 2: You so much for being with us and taking time
21:11
Speaker 2: away from Oh my Stars. I guess now over ten
21:14
Speaker 2: thousand autopsies you have performed. Could you explain, because I
21:18
Speaker 2: know this is going to be attacked in court, how
21:22
Speaker 2: hair is found a third person's hair, not the victim's hair,
21:28
Speaker 2: on the victim's body or for instance, in a burlap
21:32
Speaker 2: bag in which the victim's body is in case, How
21:37
Speaker 2: exactly is that done in a way that holds up
21:42
Speaker 2: under attack in court?
21:43
Speaker 10: So as I'm sure you're aware, everybody sheds a certain
21:46
Speaker 10: amount of hair every day and it gets on surfaces,
21:49
Speaker 10: on your clothes.
21:50
Speaker 2: No, I'm not aware. I don't know anything about shedding hair.
21:54
Speaker 10: Tell me, okay, Well, everybody every day loses a certain
21:57
Speaker 10: amount of hair. It's just a natural of life. Everybody
22:01
Speaker 10: sheds a little bit of their hair as they go
22:03
Speaker 10: about the day, as you comb your hair, etc. So
22:06
Speaker 10: you have it on your clothes, you have it in
22:08
Speaker 10: your car, you have it on surfaces about your house.
22:11
Speaker 10: When someone gets murdered in an area where your hair
22:14
Speaker 10: fibers are at, their blood can stick to that hair
22:20
Speaker 10: and it gets stuck to their body. Also, when the
22:22
Speaker 10: individual is being murdered, they may grab at your hair
22:25
Speaker 10: and pull it out of your head and it gets
22:28
Speaker 10: on their body as well. If it's a third person,
22:31
Speaker 10: say his wife in this particular case, her hair is
22:35
Speaker 10: in the house where these sex workers are at. Her
22:39
Speaker 10: hair can be transferred onto them and then carried out.
22:42
Speaker 10: So hair is one of those fibers that can easily
22:45
Speaker 10: get mixed onto a body just through the natural course
22:49
Speaker 10: of events.
22:49
Speaker 2: So we shed fifty two one hundred hairs a day
22:53
Speaker 2: that we know of. And I also want to point
22:55
Speaker 2: out John Ray. I hope you're sitting down John Ray,
22:57
Speaker 2: high profile lawyer. The lawyers in this case are getting
23:01
Speaker 2: four hundred thousand and two hundred thousand, respectively in court.
23:06
Speaker 2: That's a half a million dollars. That's a lot of money.
23:09
Speaker 8: The lawyers not only getting paid, they're getting paid to
23:12
Speaker 8: do something that walks the very thin line of of
23:15
Speaker 8: you know, unethical behavior because they're putting there, they're exposing
23:20
Speaker 8: their client to possible prosecution, and they're exposing their client
23:25
Speaker 8: at least to assisting her earn in convicting her husband.
23:30
Speaker 2: You mean by allowing the Peacock documentary to go forward,
23:33
Speaker 2: if you could call it that.
23:34
Speaker 8: Yeah, and to get paid for it, but by a
23:36
Speaker 8: third party they're getting They're not getting paid by Ellrope.
23:39
Speaker 8: They're getting paid by a third party. So who is
23:41
Speaker 8: their client?
23:42
Speaker 2: Not only is there a million dollar deal and a
23:45
Speaker 2: silver Mercedes somehow has weaseled into this scenario.
23:48
Speaker 3: But there's also a go fundme. Take a listen to this.
23:53
Speaker 4: The daughter of the Happy Face killer Keith Jefsperson set
23:57
Speaker 4: up a GoFundMe for Ella Up to help her do
23:59
Speaker 4: just that. So far, over fifty six thousand dollars has
24:02
Speaker 4: been raised. Some victims' families have criticized the fundraiser. Sources
24:06
Speaker 4: tell news agencies that filming has already begun and will
24:09
Speaker 4: continue throughout the as yet unscheduled trial and its aftermath.
24:13
Speaker 4: Film crews were seen trailing the family to Huerman's recent arraignment.
24:16
Speaker 2: Wow and speaking of the recent arrangment, remember that Ace
24:22
Speaker 2: Elrup has not been visiting her husband at all zero
24:26
Speaker 2: times behind bars until this listens.
24:30
Speaker 4: Asa Elerap, wife a suspected Long Island serial killer, shows
24:34
Speaker 4: up to visit him in jail, then comes to a hearing,
24:37
Speaker 4: both the first since his arrest in July, and many
24:40
Speaker 4: wonder if she will continue to show up for her
24:42
Speaker 4: husband of twenty seven years. Ellerup's divorce attorney confirmed that
24:46
Speaker 4: Ellup wants to see the court proceedings for herself. Rex
24:50
Speaker 4: Huerman is caught staring directly at his estranged wife in
24:53
Speaker 4: a recent court hearing. Wpi X reports Huerman cast a
24:56
Speaker 4: sharp glance to his right, where Ellerup is sitting with
24:59
Speaker 4: her lawyer and a p from nbcpacock. While Huerman is
25:02
Speaker 4: looking at her, Fox News reports Ellerup's expression is a
25:06
Speaker 4: slight smile in response.
25:07
Speaker 2: Exchanging smiles in the courtroom, A million dollar deal in
25:11
Speaker 2: the works, silver Mercedes driving her around?
25:16
Speaker 3: What's happening next?
25:18
Speaker 2: Plus a GoFundMe that is raising more money by the day,
25:22
Speaker 2: while my husband, Rex Huerman is behind bars being fed
25:26
Speaker 2: Italian sausage, green beans with potatoes, seasoned veggies and macaroni salad. Okay,
25:34
Speaker 2: joining me right now, special guest Keith Rovere, author of
25:38
Speaker 2: the Story of You That's Why You and podcast host
25:42
Speaker 2: of and I didn't understand this at first or now
25:47
Speaker 2: the Lighter Side of Serial Killers, and you were sent
25:54
Speaker 2: Rex Huerman's letter by the Smiley Face Killer? Is that correct,
25:59
Speaker 2: Keith rev.
26:00
Speaker 11: Yes, thank you for having me on the show, the
26:02
Speaker 11: blessing to be a part of it. I have known
26:04
Speaker 11: Keith for a few years now.
26:06
Speaker 3: First of all, who is Keith?
26:07
Speaker 11: Keith Jefferson, the Happy Face Killer. He's been on my
26:11
Speaker 11: podcast probably ten times or so. And Rex isn't the
26:15
Speaker 11: first serial color that he has written.
26:16
Speaker 2: I assume that when you say Rex, you were on
26:18
Speaker 2: a first name basis with the two serial killers.
26:23
Speaker 11: Well, Rex Heerman I've never talked to I've never corresponded
26:27
Speaker 11: with him at all. Keith had sp for his address
26:30
Speaker 11: in prison or in jail, right, where is that now?
26:32
Speaker 11: So I send him that Wayne adam Ford, another serial
26:35
Speaker 11: killer just on my podcast received the letter from Keith
26:38
Speaker 11: also years ago, author Shawl Cross, Charles Manson, He's written
26:42
Speaker 11: numerous people. One of the reasons that he gave me
26:45
Speaker 11: the letter is like the Manson letter Charles Manson I
26:48
Speaker 11: received was stolen out of his cell. So he didn't
26:50
Speaker 11: want that letter stolen. So he said it to me.
26:52
Speaker 11: You know, there's a trust factor, but up, I've known
26:54
Speaker 11: them for many years. The other reason he sent it
26:57
Speaker 11: to me, I was going to be on the dateline
26:59
Speaker 11: special this release on Rex. You were have been last week.
27:03
Speaker 11: They decided to cut this letter out. I didn't own
27:05
Speaker 11: the letter at that point. I just they heard about
27:07
Speaker 11: the letter and they decided to not air that portion
27:10
Speaker 11: on the show. They want to focus more on the victims. Rightfully,
27:13
Speaker 11: so came out great.
27:14
Speaker 6: Well.
27:14
Speaker 11: Keith found out about that. He's jesperson and I told him,
27:17
Speaker 11: I'm not going to be part of the show. The
27:18
Speaker 11: letter's not going to be part of the show. They
27:19
Speaker 11: want to focused on the victims. That upset him, and
27:22
Speaker 11: so he said, I'm also going to send you this
27:24
Speaker 11: letter so you can show that one of the producers
27:26
Speaker 11: who wanted me on the show, I think Julia Kimmer's
27:27
Speaker 11: her name. He was upset. Oh, they think I'm lying
27:31
Speaker 11: because I lied to Depress, you know, years ago.
27:33
Speaker 2: Well, it's because you're a serial killer. That's why nobody believes.
27:36
Speaker 11: Them, of course, but that was the one trust factor.
27:41
Speaker 11: He didn't want the letter stole on and show what
27:43
Speaker 11: the dateline NBC saying, Hey, look, I'm not a liar.
27:45
Speaker 11: Here's the letter. Here's the letter.
27:46
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm sorry, hold on, don't care. And I don't
27:49
Speaker 2: mean that in an evil, hateful way, but I don't
27:52
Speaker 2: care that a serial killer is angry that he didn't
27:55
Speaker 2: make dateline. Just could not care any less than I.
28:00
Speaker 2: But speaking of the Happy Face Killer, who apparently has
28:05
Speaker 2: chuck up a pin pal relationship with Rex Huerman, do
28:09
Speaker 2: I have to quote my grandmother birds of a feather
28:12
Speaker 2: flocked together? Okay, there I said it.
28:14
Speaker 3: Take a listener or cut two five to two. Who
28:16
Speaker 3: is the Happy Face Killer?
28:17
Speaker 4: In the early nineties, Keith Jesperson was a long haul
28:20
Speaker 4: truck driver who liked to kill women. When someone else
28:23
Speaker 4: took credit for one of his murders, he started sending
28:25
Speaker 4: letters to the media and police with information only the
28:28
Speaker 4: killer would know. He put a happy face on each
28:31
Speaker 4: of his letters and was dubbed the Happy Face Killer
28:33
Speaker 4: in prison for life since nineteen ninety five, The Happy
28:36
Speaker 4: Face Killer is becoming pin pals with suspected Long Island
28:39
Speaker 4: serial killer rex Huerman. The Daily Mail reports that Jessperson
28:43
Speaker 4: wrote a letter to Hureman, encouraging him to confess and
28:46
Speaker 4: offering some advice. Rex Huerman reportedly writes back, thanking the
28:50
Speaker 4: Happy Face Killer for the advice, and then complains about
28:53
Speaker 4: the food in jail and the exercise show.
29:08
Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grace.
29:13
Speaker 3: Sydney.
29:14
Speaker 2: Please get me somere menis from the jail, because you
29:17
Speaker 2: know what, I'm making fish filets tonight. They can you
29:21
Speaker 2: get frozen and they have a little breading on it.
29:24
Speaker 2: Because the twins love them. They think they're having fish. Okay,
29:27
Speaker 2: So I think I would do a backflip if somebody
29:31
Speaker 2: came in and had prepared and I've got to hear
29:34
Speaker 2: more Italian sausage, green beans with potatoes, seasoned veggies, and
29:38
Speaker 2: that crunning salad. I'm sure that there's a dessert in there.
29:41
Speaker 2: And these two are complaining about the food behind bars.
29:47
Speaker 2: I mean, what are they talking about with each other? Keith?
29:51
Speaker 11: One thing I think is very telling sometimes it's what's
29:55
Speaker 11: not in a letter or what somebody does not say
29:58
Speaker 11: in writing that, like how.
29:59
Speaker 2: They charge raped and murdered unarmed and defenseless women once
30:03
Speaker 2: they lured them and got them alone and then overpowered
30:07
Speaker 2: them by girth and weapons.
30:09
Speaker 11: Yes, and also the fact what he did not say
30:11
Speaker 11: is I did not do it. I am not guilty.
30:14
Speaker 11: Though I get a sense of like peace about this,
30:18
Speaker 11: like acceptance, like yeah, they got me, and wonder what
30:20
Speaker 11: the food's going to be. I didn't get a sense
30:22
Speaker 11: of any of that that, Hey, I'm not guilty. What
30:25
Speaker 11: do I do or what do I do? I definitely
30:26
Speaker 11: did not do this nothing. It's almost a calmness when
30:30
Speaker 11: you read that letter of his streams guilt to me
30:34
Speaker 11: despite reading it.
30:34
Speaker 2: Oh no, just a moment, you're absolutely right nowhere did
30:38
Speaker 2: they claim I didn't do this? I'm being real roaded, Sydney.
30:42
Speaker 2: How dare you point out to me that you had
30:43
Speaker 2: already sent me that information? Okay, here we go for breakfast,
30:48
Speaker 2: chilled a grape juice, hot cinnamon, oatmeal, toast, margarine, milk, coffee, sugar, okay,
30:55
Speaker 2: hot wheat, cereal blah blah blah, Krispy rice cereal hard
31:00
Speaker 2: cooked eggs. That's just for breakfast. Wait for it, is
31:03
Speaker 2: this lunch or dinner At lunch beef catcheatory with spaghetti,
31:08
Speaker 2: steam and green beans, bread and butter, Hawaiian beverage, apple sauce.
31:14
Speaker 2: And for the vegans meatless pepper steak. Okay, I mean.
31:21
Speaker 3: Here's one of my faves.
31:22
Speaker 2: This is for lunch, tomato soup, cream and tomato and
31:25
Speaker 2: grilled cheese sandwich. It's like mother's cooking your meal. Barbecue, chicken,
31:31
Speaker 2: white rice, creole, bean sauce. I mean, it goes on
31:34
Speaker 2: and on. Why is that irritating me so much?
31:37
Speaker 6: Joe jackalone, Well, it actually shows you that we treat
31:40
Speaker 6: our prisoners a lot better than what some of the
31:42
Speaker 6: activists are been doing us for years.
31:44
Speaker 2: I think it's something else. I'm not listening to the
31:46
Speaker 2: activists lying on the courthouse steps. It's the fact that
31:51
Speaker 2: these guys, I mean, how hard is it. Dr Bethany Marshall,
31:56
Speaker 2: you're the shrink And I hated doing this, Jeries, but
32:00
Speaker 2: I did it every murder trial. I made them think
32:04
Speaker 2: now it's actually against the law constitutionally for them to
32:09
Speaker 2: put themselves in the shoes of the victim. That's disallowed
32:13
Speaker 2: in most jurisdictions, but I would force him to think
32:18
Speaker 2: about what the victims went through. Let's just think about
32:22
Speaker 2: this and Dr Bethany Charlie Langston, Daily Mail Superstar, everybody
32:28
Speaker 2: on the panel jump in if I'm missing anything. A
32:31
Speaker 2: lady is lured to be alone with Rex Hueman, who's like,
32:38
Speaker 2: what six five weighs about three at least deduce.
32:43
Speaker 8: In a quarter six two hundred and eighty pounds.
32:46
Speaker 2: That's less than I thought. So she's alone with him
32:50
Speaker 2: and he begins to rape her vaginally and anally, and
32:55
Speaker 2: during that torturing her and beating her until he strangles
32:59
Speaker 2: her dead. Some of the victims of which I suspect him, dismembered.
33:04
Speaker 2: They never what are their last thoughts as they're getting
33:07
Speaker 2: raped and they're passing out. Just imagine that moment that
33:12
Speaker 2: this is happening. Will they ever see their children again?
33:16
Speaker 2: Will they ever see their family again? Or is this it?
33:21
Speaker 2: And then they die? And this guy is getting cream
33:24
Speaker 2: and tomato, soap and a grilled cheese sandwich.
33:26
Speaker 7: Nantea's like he's being put in the center of mother's care,
33:32
Speaker 7: back to the earliest part of life where everything is
33:35
Speaker 7: provided for him. He doesn't have to work anymore, he
33:38
Speaker 7: doesn't have to earn what he gets. He's sort of
33:40
Speaker 7: at the center of things. Everything is brought to him
33:44
Speaker 7: in some ways. It's like the ultimate example of being
33:47
Speaker 7: catered to. Now, you and I may not want to
33:50
Speaker 7: be catered to that way, but for someone like him,
33:53
Speaker 7: he is at the center of things. And think of
33:55
Speaker 7: this he and this other the hap that the smiley
33:58
Speaker 7: face killer. They're giving it. They're passing little notes back
34:02
Speaker 7: and forth like kids in the classroom.
34:04
Speaker 2: And ragging about their pen power relationship. Charlie Langston, isn't
34:08
Speaker 2: it true that Hueerman was arrested At the moment he
34:13
Speaker 2: was arrested because police believed he was about to strike again.
34:18
Speaker 2: A woman reportedly called police because he was following her
34:24
Speaker 2: in a park and she got so freaked out she
34:26
Speaker 2: left the park. She was there for a walk, maybe
34:29
Speaker 2: with her dog, and human was following her around. And
34:32
Speaker 2: he had just recently bought more minutes for a burner phone,
34:36
Speaker 2: which was his mode of reaching and luring his victims.
34:41
Speaker 3: He was about to strike again.
34:43
Speaker 5: There were definitely suspicions that he was going to commit
34:47
Speaker 5: more crimes, And I think that's what forced the investigators
34:52
Speaker 5: to kind of take the step of arresting him when
34:54
Speaker 5: they did. But the reality is when you look at
34:57
Speaker 5: the letters that were exchanged between Jess and Quemen, as
35:01
Speaker 5: everyone has said, there's a sense of acceptance coming from
35:04
Speaker 5: Human here. He's asking Jefferson whether he's going to get
35:08
Speaker 5: butter for his bread in prison, as though he's thinking
35:11
Speaker 5: about what life is going to be like when he
35:13
Speaker 5: gets to prison. Jefferson has encouraged him to confess, telling
35:17
Speaker 5: him that he should avoid the media circus that would
35:20
Speaker 5: surround a trial, and also advising him that his life
35:23
Speaker 5: in prison will be easier if he just pleads guilty
35:27
Speaker 5: avoids the media circus, because that way other people in
35:30
Speaker 5: prison will know less about his crime. He even said,
35:34
Speaker 5: you know, you should avoid giving the prosecutors the opportunity
35:38
Speaker 5: to gloat about the evidence that they have found against you.
35:41
Speaker 5: And you know, if anyone's going to know whether or
35:44
Speaker 5: not a person is a serial killer, it's another serial killer.
35:47
Speaker 5: You said. It birds of a feather flock together. But
35:49
Speaker 5: it also takes one to know one. And I think
35:52
Speaker 5: that looking at Jefferson's correspondence with Human is incredibly telling.
35:56
Speaker 2: And still wondering where are the indictments are for the
36:02
Speaker 2: two additional women, Vergatta and Gilbert? How much longer do
36:09
Speaker 2: their families have to wait for justice? And speaking of
36:13
Speaker 2: the letters, Keith Rovere with us, author of the story
36:17
Speaker 2: of You That's Why You and star of a hit podcast,
36:21
Speaker 2: The Lighter Side of Serial Killers.
36:25
Speaker 3: Keith Rovere, you do know that rex Hureman.
36:31
Speaker 2: Was writing The Happy Face Killer and asking if Happy
36:36
Speaker 2: Face got butter on his toast. That's what he's worried about.
36:41
Speaker 2: He's not worried about the dead victims' families or what
36:44
Speaker 2: their children are going through growing up without their mother,
36:47
Speaker 2: wondering what happened to her. He's worried about not getting
36:51
Speaker 2: butter on his toast.
36:52
Speaker 11: I think he's incapable of that. I mean, certainly, I'm
36:56
Speaker 11: not a psychiatrist, but let's just assume psychopath or who
37:01
Speaker 11: lacks empathy like Keith Jefferson did almost ten episodes on
37:05
Speaker 11: my show going into detail about his crimes with so
37:08
Speaker 11: lack of interest and empathy, joking about everything. I don't
37:11
Speaker 11: think it's possible for him to He can he talk
37:14
Speaker 11: about it? Certainly? Does he care? No, he doesn't have
37:18
Speaker 11: His brain doesn't give them the ability to care or
37:20
Speaker 11: to have empathy. I mean, that's part of what I do.
37:22
Speaker 11: What I do is to learn more about them. It
37:24
Speaker 11: wasn't that long ago we thought people with schizophrenia were
37:26
Speaker 11: demon possess So I do what I do to learn
37:28
Speaker 11: more about that. How does the brain work? Why don't
37:31
Speaker 11: they have the ability to have fear? That's another thing
37:34
Speaker 11: you can kind of read in a letter. There's no
37:35
Speaker 11: fear in that letter. There's no fear. I mean, psychopaths
37:37
Speaker 11: aren't deterred by fear. Certainly those who a degree can
37:40
Speaker 11: tell a lot more than I can. But if you're
37:42
Speaker 11: not deterred by fear, you have no empathy. Usually that
37:45
Speaker 11: migile portion of the brain of front, the cortex, and
37:47
Speaker 11: it's not working right. You're also doing the ability to
37:48
Speaker 11: stop if someone bumps you on the shoulder and you
37:50
Speaker 11: want to smack them. Oh, I better not. It's a
37:52
Speaker 11: bad idea. They don't have the ability because your brain
37:54
Speaker 11: doesn't function that way. So no, there's no fear. There's
37:57
Speaker 11: no lack of empathy. That's the last thing on his
38:00
Speaker 11: because it's incapable of feeling that way.
38:04
Speaker 7: Jump in dout her bethany Sorry, However, The lack of
38:06
Speaker 7: empathy is not because they don't know what other people
38:09
Speaker 7: are thinking and how other people feel. They know, they
38:13
Speaker 7: just don't care.
38:15
Speaker 11: They can't feel it exactly. They can fake it, they
38:19
Speaker 11: can discribe it.
38:20
Speaker 2: So, Charlie Langston, as we are somehow getting sucked into
38:27
Speaker 2: whether rex Hureman can relate to what he did to
38:31
Speaker 2: his victims according to police. Charlie, I don't understand what
38:35
Speaker 2: the hold up is now. It was a couple of
38:38
Speaker 2: months ago we were told that DNA from a Vegas
38:43
Speaker 2: murder victim is being compared to find out if she
38:49
Speaker 2: is another of rex Hureman's victims. We know there is
38:53
Speaker 2: a woman in South Carolina that was placed with human
38:56
Speaker 2: just before she goes missing. When are we going to
38:59
Speaker 2: see the results?
39:01
Speaker 5: I mean, I think the issue here is that, you know,
39:03
Speaker 5: it took thirteen years for anything to actually be done
39:08
Speaker 5: after the remains of more than ten people were discovered
39:13
Speaker 5: in Gilgo Beach. So thirteen years, I mean, you know,
39:16
Speaker 5: people who have better understanding of criminal law will be
39:20
Speaker 5: able to tell you more. But thirteen years is an
39:23
Speaker 5: incredibly long time for people to be dragging their feet,
39:27
Speaker 5: and that is not for lack of prompting from lawyers,
39:31
Speaker 5: from family members. You know we were talking earlier about
39:35
Speaker 5: Shannon Gilbert. You know, her mother up until the end
39:38
Speaker 5: of her life was begging investigators to keep looking into
39:43
Speaker 5: her daughter's disappearance and death. And it was actually the
39:47
Speaker 5: discovery of her remains that prompted the investigation into rects
39:51
Speaker 5: Huomen in the first place. But when you look at
39:53
Speaker 5: how long it's taken for any action to really be
39:57
Speaker 5: taken on the part of investigators, I think it's tragic
40:01
Speaker 5: that nothing else has been done. I think it's devastating that,
40:04
Speaker 5: you know, kind of multiple other bodies, multiple other victims,
40:08
Speaker 5: are having their crimes go unsolved. But it doesn't surprise me, unfortunately,
40:13
Speaker 5: because when you look at this case on the whole,
40:16
Speaker 5: it has taken investigators so long to try and achieve
40:21
Speaker 5: any form of justice. And is it surprising that humanman
40:24
Speaker 5: was tempted to commit another crime when he went over
40:28
Speaker 5: a decade without anyone holding him under a microscope and
40:32
Speaker 5: looking at him as a suspect.
40:34
Speaker 2: Right now, we are waiting as asa Elera breaks in
40:38
Speaker 2: money and is being driven around in a silver Mercedes.
40:43
Speaker 2: We wait to find out will there be other charges
40:48
Speaker 2: as it relates to the Long Island serial killer suspect
40:52
Speaker 2: Rex Human. Goodbye to