Latest / The Science of Skin / Mary Fisher: A global force in the skincare industry.

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Mary Fisher: A global force in the skincare industry. · The Science of Skin

• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, I'm Dr.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Patty Ferris.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a board certified dermatologist, and I'm your host for this episode of Skin Care Confidential.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: This podcast was started by myself and Dr.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: Ted Lane to give our listeners a 360 view of the skincare industry.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's also an outreach for our medical meeting called the Science of Skin Care Summit, which will be held this year in Austin, Texas, September 21st through the 23rd.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: Our meeting is for healthcare professionals only.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: So sorry if you're not a healthcare professional, but we're going to be giving out some great information about ingredients and formulations and how to use topical skincare products for clinical practice.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Now, today I am so excited to have a very old friend of mine, but also really a legend in the skincare business, Mary Fisher, with us.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: For those of you who don't know Mary, she's the chair and CEO of Color Science.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: She was also the CEO of Skin Medica from 2008 to 2012 and facilitated the sale of that company to Allergan Therapeutics.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: But Mary was not done kicking you know what in the skincare industry at that point, and she decided she was going to start another brand, and she got funding for and started the brand Color Science, which is a huge, huge brand and also a big-time dermatology favorite.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: Mary also has 30 years of experience in pharmaceuticals and biotech, and she's held leadership roles in many companies and serves on the board of companies such as Centra and Dermata Therapeutics.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: Mary was honored to be the Ernston Young Entrepreneur of the Year for San Diego, and more recently received the Ernst ⁇ Young Venture Capital Award of Excellence.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: So congratulations on that.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: She was also recently named as a finalist for the most admired CEO by the San Diego Business Journal.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: That is no surprise to me because everyone who works for her has been with her for years.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's a cult, the Mary Fisher cult, and I'm in it.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: So, Mary, welcome and thank you so much for joining us for Skincare Confidential.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Dr.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Ferris.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm honored to be with you again and honored to be invited to participate in the podcast.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: So excited.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: So listen, I want you to start with talking about you.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: I want to hear about your career journey.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: How did you end up going from pharmabiotech into skincare?
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: And tell me all the steps in between.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: After years in pharmaceuticals and biotech, I worked in areas, therapeutic areas such as oncology, immunology, and a lot of years in central nervous system diseases, and didn't really appreciate the role of the skin other than being the largest organ in the body.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I was approached by an investor in Skin Medica to take a look at uh the CEO search that Rex Bright was running at the time.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Rex was one of the co-founders.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Love Rex Bright, missing very much.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and a wonderful friend and mentor.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so he brought me in.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: He was uh getting ready to retire, and he brought me in to uh take the role as CEO.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: I was a first-time CEO and um, you know, learning about dermatology, really.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, he was a veteran dermatologist, I think the first non-dermatologist to be invited to a lifetime uh membership with the American Academy of Dermatology.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: He was you know, who better to introduce me to the space?
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I kept running into uh Seth Orlo's name, and you know, he's the chair at NYU.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I knew Seth from uh a previous this one of the CNS companies, the court of therapeutics.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so I called him finally and said, this finally was you know the first month on the job, and said, Seth, are you my Seth Orlo?
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: He said, Yes, Mary, I know everybody you've met with in dermatology.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's a small space, so I'm glad you're here.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I started to learn about skin biology.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: And Dr.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: Ferris, I was just hooked, you know, understanding how uh the skin really is this constant conversation between your insides and your outsides and uh thinking much more deeply, literally, than uh formulation, which is so important.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but learning about skin biology, and then I just I want to be in skin forever for the rest of my career.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: And we had a medical dermatology side and an aesthetics dermatology side.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so um learning about the non-prescription side of the business from inside the company and from experts like yourself, Dr.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Ruth Tidaldi, really examining not just the product offerings and the reasons for product offerings, the reasons for topicals, um, but also the business models to be able to make obvious that these are scientifically backed, clinically proven topicals and that they have specific use cases.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so thank you uh for leading us there.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, we were approached by Bayer to acquire the medical assets of Skin Medica, and um, that was an offer our board couldn't refuse.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and and there were some regulatory changes that pressured that business, but um uh that allowed us to focus on the cosmetic side, and uh that focus developed a growth and liftoff that people weren't expecting.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: So all of a sudden Unbelievable the way they grew up.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: We were on everybody's radar screen, yeah.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so then the brand sold to Allergan.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: And did you exit Skin Medica at that time?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: I did, yes.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: We had acquired color science one year prior.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: So Skin Medica technically acquired color science, and it so it was um a very consumer-facing brand, uh, thought of primarily as mineral makeup, but over that year we began to appreciate the what we really had in color science, that it was a skincare company in its own right with very robust formulas.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so um Allergan gave us the opportunity to spin off.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: So Ted Ebell, um, Steve Loomis, Heather Goodchild, we came over to color science and uh and we've worked to transform the brand ever since that time.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: So tell me, what was your vision?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: What have you done since you've taken over the brand?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, again, it's another bland brand that's really just blown up over the years.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think if I say, if I say color science to a dermatologist, they're gonna say Sun Forgettable because that was really, I think, the product that hooked got a lot of us hooked.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Including me.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, every one of us carrying that stuff in our purses, like, you know.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's so fun to go to say the Women's Dermatological Society luncheon, and you know, we all group together and take our brushes out.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it's it's uh so true.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: Ubiquitous.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: So that it is.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so we were uh really one of very few product dosage forms in sunscreen that were powder, and we were known as the brush people.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it was the dermatologist interest in the brand that really got us hooked from the beginning.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we saw, like I said, those skin health benefits and took our skincare experience from Skin Medica and were able to really look at developing color science into a broader skin health brand.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: What other things did you develop to sort of move it forward from just being that sort of one product brand, if you might say?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, from one hero product.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think a big strategic decision was to uh broaden our offering to include specific products for specific concerns, much like a skincare company would.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so our first was uh AllCon.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: These are multi-functional products, uh, even up also.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then we have a very potent peptide product that that uh the users love, and the clinical proof behind it is outstanding, uh, and that's for signs of aging.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: But um, these are multifunctional products that do uh usually the sun care at a high level, and then the skincare designed for the condition, and then a little bit of color for uh correction, so you get immediate benefit, and then you get the long-term effects.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: I know you all did sort of an interesting study pairing I think it was Sun Forgettable with maybe it was IPL, and the satisfaction of the patients by just using the sunscreen was unbelievable.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: I just remember thinking this is so simple but so important for clinicians to understand that it really changed the patient experience.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for noting that, because that was part of the design of that trial.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think uh some of the clinics didn't know the extent to which consumers were uncomfortable and self-conscious and uh a little bit, you know, stunned after getting a procedure like an IPL, as you know.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: And leaving most importantly with sun protection that was healthy for their skin in that condition, uh, but also some correction, if you will, color correction.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, a lot of a lot of consumers now are happier with the practices, they're happier with the treatments.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um we find rebookings are up at the practice level.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: So, yes, of course, the patient benefit, that's that's absolute table stakes, right?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: We have to make sure we're doing good for the patient.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: But to do good for the practices uh is also makes us very happy.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and I think that's another place that you really pioneered, especially in the early days, as you mentioned, those business models that work in uh clinical practice.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: And that that is so important.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think is an important contribution the company has made to our specialty.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: And you yourself, of course, such a pioneer in that space.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, my my bit my partner in crime, Dr.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Tidaldi.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, nobody we got to get her on this podcast.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: She's on my list.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: She's on my hit list.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'm gonna have her.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Don't worry.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna have her.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna be ready for her too when I get her on here.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, she's just she's just a phenomenal uh purveyor of skincare products, knowledge of uh, you know, how important it is.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of it is, and I tell a lot of people when I'm on the podium, if you don't believe it's important, then you know, you have to understand how important skincare is.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why I mentioned that study.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a whole growing body of knowledge now of what we're now calling integrated skincare, not integrative, but integrated, meaning integrated into clinical practice with cosmetic procedures.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: We're seeing it with microneedling RF, we're seeing it with lasers, we're seeing it with IPL.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: And every study, time and time again, shows you enhanced wound healing.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: They show, you know, better patient satisfaction, all of the, you know, less redness, less downtime, all of the things that patients want.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's really important for the dermatologists listening or aestheticians and skincare providers to understand how important skincare is to clinical patients.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: I really think your trailblazing is a huge part of that platform.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm glad to hear you say that I'm hearing it at conferences now.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: I was invited by uh Philippe Chezon to moderate a panel uh at the Aesthetics Innovation Summit, and that's attached to the plastic surgery conference, as you know.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: So heavy plastic surgery uh clinical orientation for that for that group.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: And um my topic was skin health, but they asked us to really mandate a broader vision of skin health in the context of plastic surgery treatments.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so the panel did a beautiful job of defining skin health for a you know, for a broad population, for putting the fundamentals together on what happens before cosmetic surgery, what happens after cosmetic surgery, and how critical understanding that that health of the skin is to successful outcomes.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: I was really delighted to see the conference bring that forward.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say, go plastic surgeons.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: That sounds amazing.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: I wish I had been there.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, we do the same talking about pre-procedure and and then the post-procedure regimens, not always the same.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that's great.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's really innovative.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: I have to switch gears for just a second, and I wish I had it in my hand, but I've got it in my purse.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: Talk to me about that no-show sunscreen.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: OMG.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not kidding you.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't know if you know, but I called the office.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: I said, would you send me two?
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like begging for two of them because I want to use them, but I also want to put them on social media.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is a mineral sunscreen that is phenomenal.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so talk to us a little bit about it and how did you all come up with that formula?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: They, you know, I think the first personal care innovation using zinc oxide was in the 1940s.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: And since then, I think color science is a leader in minerals because we stayed the course when others went to chemical actives to try to solve for um, you know, elegance and usage.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so um I'm very happy and delighted that color science stayed the course making skin-colored zinc.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: And when we came into transforming the brand, it was to expand the number of skin tones we could uh help with that type of a solution.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so inclusivity was part of the brand transformation, more dosage forms.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but always, you know better than I do, the holy grail of using zinc as a mineral active is that it's opaque white powder.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: And even getting darker tinted uh sunscreens, you know, it kind of shoves the zinc out of the way proportionately in the formula, and so the SPF comes down.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's these are big, big challenges.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but the color science team decided to go for it with uh clear zinc.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I have to say I was the internal skeptic on the team.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: I said, can't be done.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh happy to hear about it from time to time.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to manage your expectations.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: And they proved you wrong.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: They did.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's great.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, they uh the color science team will not be told that they can't do something.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: They really are invincible.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure they don't say I told you so.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: They do.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: I welcome it.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's fine, of course.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: They they deserve it.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, our technology partner had um a new patented uh coding for zinc oxide.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and not only that, but particle size, particle distribution.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's I'm not a particle physicist, so not the best person to speak to it, but it had to do with changing the way light is scattered on the skin when this product is applied.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it each year for three years, you know, different formulations would come through.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I like to point out technological, you know, platforms are exciting, but the magic is marrying them up with a formulation that delivers the final result and that consumers want to use every day.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, that's what the the color science team really brought to the party.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I just couldn't believe my eyes when I saw the final product.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: So after decades, once and finally a zinc product that dries down clear, it behaves like a lightweight moisturizer.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we get feedback from all skin tones and colors and and types, and people say it it just feels so lightweight and hydrating going on the skin, and then you don't see it.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: So um this now brings in, you know how men felt about using the board.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: They hate, they hate, they hate all sunscreens, but they particularly hate mineral sunscreens.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so uh this allows us now to literally reach the whole family.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: The men and the and the kids love it too.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I use it on my grandkids this weekend.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's phenomenal.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I was showing my daughter, I'm like, look at this stuff.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: And she's like, wow, we had a big time on the beach with that.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: I could have sold a lot of units if I had ants.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: I can assure you.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm out there slathering it on.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's wonderful.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: I got to tease Ruth because you know, Ruth goes out literally with a hazmat suit.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna take it.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's one of my favorite photos.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: Me too.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: I use it in all my lectures because it's so funny.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, she literally has got her head covered, her face covered.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: But now I'm gonna tell her to put this no-show sunscreen on and ditch all that garb she's been wearing all these years.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: She could go on a bathing suit.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it it's really it's phenomenal.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: Give me a little bit of a window into sort of what you envision as the future.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we we talk a lot now about individualized or personalized skincare.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's something consumers are really looking into.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, there's just so many things that are that are coming at us more from a technology standpoint, artificial intelligence, um, augmented reality, how we're using things like that to pair patients with products and things like that.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I I think dermatologists are the best people to pair individuals with products, honestly, in customizing regimens.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I I think what when you look at our innovation pipeline, it's very full out into the future.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: So we can obviously handle one to three product launches per year.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: We've been innovating since we started transforming the brand.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: Now we need to fill into some categories that we haven't carried in the past, um, and we'll do that by the end of this year, certainly the turn into the next year.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think what we'll be looking for are how the minerals can be applied therapeutically in other areas, not just on the face or on the body.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know that skin cancer happens in the scalp.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we we look at the same aging issues that everybody else does, you know, lashes, brows, hairlines, and um, and so I think we're we're heading in those directions as well.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: Probably a powerful focus on minerals will be a driver for us for the foreseeable future.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then the we talked about business models.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think at color science we've really cracked that code that you and I and Dr.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: Tadaldi worked on so closely, um, which is what happens outside the walls of the practice and the hours of operation of the practice?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: What happens when our consumer is not directly in your company hearing your recommendation?
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: And can we can we close some of those gaps?
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: Close them.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so education has come back on our priority.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: We have connector programs like practice pages, which are common.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think those are rare, but we've we've designed a loyalty program that really connects the consumer to you and fills out those hours that we're talking about.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: So we see um nights, weekends, holidays, we're able to keep that consumer focused on the educational um material behind the product selection and keep them on the product so their skin is truly protected, not just from UVA, UVB, blue light, also um infrared.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: And we've developed a capability in protecting from pollution that I think is uh well studied, and I think we have some proof beyond SPF to bring to the party.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's gonna be interesting because pollutants are a big uh play a, you know, not as big a role as UV.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think we all know that, but they certainly play a role in skin aging.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so that has become top of mind with dermatologists.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Any thoughts about anything in the nutraceutical area?
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: I thought it was so interesting to see major companies like Neutrogena, for example, this year launching a line of nutraceuticals, which and it's a personalized nutraceutical, it's a very cool play on their part, I think.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: Very forward thinking.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think so too.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: And uh we've seen some other up-and-coming brands, um, uh like Lima Laser, for example, you know, is has a very inside and out uh type of approach in it in a take-home laser, but also a professional setting laser uh handheld.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: And um and I I've tested their nutraceuticals, I think, um, very impressed.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um and we do think about that as a category for ourselves.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: We we think of zinc as a base, right?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's our that's our corporate.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: Bread and butter.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that um when we look at it, we we would need to make sure we're marrying the the internal ingredients and why they're there and what they're doing uh to the ingredients in our topical products.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a little bit ahead of us, but absolutely on our radar screen.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, when you look at consumer reports and things like that, so that is one of the things that consumers actually said they wanted more of from cosmetic companies was nutraceuticals.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that really surprised me.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: And they also said they wanted more studies.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I think companies like color science, which does a lot of studies, maybe sometimes the consumers don't exactly get access to it or know how to access it.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure you have them on your website and the like, but I think that's a place where we as dermatologists could also facilitate them understanding that no, we're not giving you things that aren't studied.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: These, you know, I always say medical grade skincare is skincare that's meant to be put in the hands of the doctors to be used as adjunct therapy to procedures and prescriptions.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it also has to be tested because basically, doctors aren't going to use it.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: If it's not tested.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: And again, color science was one of the first companies really coming, I think, forward with that.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: And Skin Medica, which you know, you all did a lot of good work.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: And it's amazing how that product has evolved.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: We actually had Raul on, and if you heard, you got to hear his podcast.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: I know you adore him like I do.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: I adore him.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: We worship him because he's so bright.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, to listen to him talk about the evolution of what they thought that product was when they first started with it to what it is now.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: And again, you're only as good as your technology at the time.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: So they said, I remember them telling us there's seven growth factors in here, the seven growth factors in here.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, now we know there's like 300 compounds, exosomes, you know, bazillions of things.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: But again, it's so interesting because we have such technology now that we can really figure out some of these things that we just didn't have technology to understand.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's a perfect example as well as well.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm thrilled that you interviewed Raul.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: I have to look up his episode.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you have to.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: Ted got to interview him.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: I was very jealous.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because I love his work.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: Love him.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're we're like groupies for him because he's just that smart of a guy.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, so many of the formulators are.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we have to get you to the Science of Skin Care Summit.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: We would love to have color science attend.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: And um what we one of the things we do that I think is very unique is that we get the formulators and the research scientists on panels on the podium, and we shoot them questions just like this, you know, and it's it's really so wonderful to watch them interact with each other and talk about their products and how they formulate them.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is things that healthcare providers don't really know.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't know it.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: I know it now from learning it through people I've worked with over the years, but you don't ever understand that.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really a unique experience, I think, for the healthcare providers to see that side of it.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think um Trish Boland, our head of RD, is just wonderful, not just for knowing um all of the ingredients that are out there, but the combinations that are either additive or synergistic.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, she is absolutely expert at making a final formulation.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, getting one past her is is difficult.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, I like to say she's like the fragrance companies that have that person called the nose, that you know the fragrance is perfect when that person says so.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's Trish.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: I know, yeah.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: What what do we call that person in the skincare industry?
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Are they the the the feel?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: Are they the you know, what out what is we gotta think that we gotta think that one through because everybody knows what the nose means, but you're right.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, these formulators, their bar is set very high, you know.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: They they will pick up on things that we won't pick up on.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: And understanding how to combine ingredients is essential.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: So you're doing also in your line sort of problem solution products like looking at hyperpigmentation, looking at various conditions.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: So that's another thing that I think the medical grade skincare lines do.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to say better than, but they do really well.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Really well.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this is an area where we've taken a lot of extra effort to partner with our dermatologist partners.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so our physician partners work with us from think tank to need assessment to hypothesis generation, clinical trial design, all the way through to results and then publication.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then we we market them because they become leaders in evaluating these kinds of uh new directions that we can go in.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, we have our uh science behind the science of color science, and uh it's the we bring our investigators directly to the world on LinkedIn, and you can come on and ask any question you have, and it's uh it highlights that they really are on the front at the front of innovation in the space.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that that's fantastic.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, listen, I'm not gonna keep you too terribly long because you and I could talk for hours.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: I told you I was I was stalking you at the AAD.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: I knew you were there.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, where is she?
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't find you, but I'm not gonna miss you again, I can assure you.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: We have to.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: I could have sworn I saw you at the Skin Cancer Foundation Gallup.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: I was there.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely there.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't see you.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: No, you were swamped.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: You had a lot of fun.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, we had we had so much fun.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't it?
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: It was a lovely party, and they lost a lot of money.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, again, color science has done a lot to protect a lot of patients from you know ultraviolet rays, and as you mentioned, the longer wavelengths of light.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a again, kudos to the brand for picking up the ball on that one and really running with it.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: And don't anybody miss the no-show sunscreen.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's really awesome.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: You'd think I'm selling it out of my house, but I'm not.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: I just loved it that much.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really, I think it's an incredible.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: For those of you who have listened today, I know that you've enjoyed hearing Mary.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: She is, as I said, a legend in the business.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: She's not going to stop yet.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm 100% sure.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: She's got more tricks up her sleeve.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: I can tell from the she's given me a few little crumbs, but she hasn't given me a piece of bread yet.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll have you back again, Mary.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you so very much.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: And if you enjoyed what you heard here, we hope that you will like and also subscribe to Skincare Confidential.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: So until next time, thank you again, Mary.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Dr.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: Ferris.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: Great show.