Latest / Teachers Talk Radio / How To Get Korean Students Talking: The Sunday Social with Martin Sketchley and Claudia Tumba

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How To Get Korean Students Talking: The Sunday Social with Martin Sketchley and Claudia Tumba · Teachers Talk Radio

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  today. We can't wait to see you there.
• 1:03
  Hello, hello and welcome.
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  It's another Sunday. It's another show of the Sunday Social.
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  And I have my co-host here, Claudia.
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  Yeah, happy to be here.
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  Well, and we have our special guest. So, Claudia, do you fancy taking the lead in this?
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  Yes, I'm super excited to tell you all about our special guest.
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  We're really, really grateful.
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  But today we've got, drumroll please, Minhee Park.
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  Or park meeting more natural in korean
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  right so let me just read off her
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  awesomeness she's an english educator creative
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  director performance-based learning specialist with over and i didn't know this
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  25 years of experience in practical english tutoring and english education for
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  children you don't look like you've had 25 years of this.
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  So you're working with children, teens, and adults. You hold a BA in English
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  education from Korea University.
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  Completed two years in Italian language and literature.
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  Again, I didn't know this awesome stuff. And you spent a year as an exchange
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  student at the University of Virginia.
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  You've also got international experience because Because you went to an American school in Italy. Yes.
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  Very interesting. And so, you know, you understand the global aspect of English
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  as well as kind of the internal aspect as well.
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  And you're not just that. At the moment, you are a lead instructor of an English theatre project.
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  Yes. Which is now called WOW, right? Yes.
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  We're doing big things. Yes, it is. and you've worked as an English theatre
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  director, film director, video production instructor and a book club reading instructor.
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  We are in the presence of somebody who's mighty. And your work focuses on practical,
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  communication-centered English, performance-based language learning,
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  and the use of storytelling and creativity to make language meaningful and engaging.
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  Wow. Wow. Thank you. Oh, wow.
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  Are you talking about me?
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  Well, yeah. Yeah, thank you ever so much for joining today's show, Minnie.
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  Thank you. Can you hear us okay? Yes. Can you hear me? Yeah, perfect.
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  Wonderful. Well, let's get started then. 25 years education.
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  As Claudia mentioned, you don't appear to have had over 25 years teaching experience.
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  I've just reached the milestone of 20 years, and I'm starting to show it with
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  my hair, unfortunately.
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  Well, I started really young. You started really young. Yes.
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  And I was in middle school. I've also got, you started in middle school?
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  Yeah. That was my question. How did you get into teaching?
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  What was your, you know, what was your rite of passage towards teaching?
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  Well, actually, I haven't been teaching like in a really big group.
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  So when I came back to Korea after being in Italy, I was in second year of middle school in Korea.
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  And at the third year, I thought I want to teach English to the kids in our apartment.
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  I hung up a sign saying that I'm a middle school student and I want to teach English.
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  So if you're interested just contact me
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  and that's when I started my private lessons and
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  that was the start wow what
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  made you so brave because I don't meet many middle
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  schoolers who are like I'm gonna teach a skill like
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  what what was it about your environment and did
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  you see a need like what was it that motivated you
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  was it money because i i know pocket money
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  like i didn't
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  get paid a lot but i did get
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  paid a little bit and i had this uh earning
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  of wanting to teach little kids and
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  use like i needed a place to use english and i also liked to draw so i wanted
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  to interact with the kids by drawing and teaching them English and also showing
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  them the original sounds of the Disney animations.
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  So I was like, you got to watch Little Mermaid in English.
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  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
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  Not the translated version, the audio, you know, transliterated version with
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  the audio. Right, right.
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  Which it must have been so interesting for them to hear like maybe the songs
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  that they've known in their in Korean, in like their native tongue,
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  now hearing it in English.
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  What kind of feeling did they have when they heard it?
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  Did they compare immediately or was it like, oh, that's not.
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  So back at our days, we did not have Netflix or Disney Plus.
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  It was all the videotape. So having an English content animation was rare itself.
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  So I had all the collections. So I would lend the kids my video.
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  So it was like a big thing.
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  Big a new surprise for them like and
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  they would just focus right into the animation
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  itself because it was so so fun
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  to look at so they didn't mind the language
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  at first and later i heard that
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  the kids would watch it again and again and just
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  just concentrate right away and also
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  harry potter was becoming a thing so yeah
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  they started reading that with the
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  audio on so yeah that that
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  kind of reminds me back when it was around 2005
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  and the harry potter books were starting to become really really
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  popular in korea one of my private students back
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  then and you know she's been wonderful and i've
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  kept in touch with her one of my first students i ever had
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  in korea was reading harry potter
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  books and we would you know revolve the lesson around you know maybe a chapter
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  or a page in harry potter books and it was really interesting to see korean
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  students back then trying to connect with whatever media that was available at that time.
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  Right.
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  So how is it now? How have you evolved now? How do you find the students?
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  Because today we wanted to know or we wanted ideas of how to get Korean students speaking.
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  So a little bit about me, my classroom consists of like, right now I'm teaching adults.
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  Mostly freshmen in mixed ability classes. And one feedback that I got last semester
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  was, you know, the students were like, it's all in English. There's no Korean.
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  So the beginner students were
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  like, we're just struggling. And then also I have just so, so many levels.
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  So I have people who are like full on advanced speaking.
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  And then the textbook is too boring. I have
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  people who are like what what did
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  she say what are we talking about what like literally
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  everything is just what what what I got what I
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  got what I got and then you've got the middle students who are like
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  oh let's just get through this so what
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  we really want to know is do you have any ideas
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  for us to implement or how do you get students talking
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  do you rely on Korean a lot or do you
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  minimize that like what are some of the things that you
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  deal with or that you use so before they
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  get used to the environment i do use a lot
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  of korean but with the
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  students that i used to teach i just
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  would give them homeworks to read the
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  the narnia the chronicles of narnia series and
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  the harry potter and the other easy chapter books
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  and then i would meet with them and they would just retell the story and I would
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  just listen to them and basically I always was a friend who listened to what
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  they understood about the story and that was actually the.
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  Really core of my class always coming to class after reading and then talking
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  about the story and then I would just chat with them mm-hmm.
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  What about you, Martin? What kind of students do you normally deal with?
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  It's an interesting question.
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  I teach a range of students. I work at an international school.
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  My context is international students predominantly, but then there are the Korean
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  cohort of students, those that come from high school and go in as freshmen or
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  those in their first years of university.
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  And like you said particularly for
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  the last two weeks I've been teaching a group of Korean high school
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  students in preparation for them to come into the
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  university just to get them more comfortable and
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  confidence you know communicating in English because that's
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  what they're going to be exposed at to in the
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  coming months you know when the spring semester
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  starts and I have
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  a range of levels just like claudia mentioned i have
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  the beginner those not beginner
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  students but students who have never had the
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  opportunity to actually speak english they've studied the grammar they've studied
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  the language and they've studied a huge amount of vocabulary but they've never
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  really strung a sentence together um but then i have the more proficient students
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  and it's quite an interesting experience to see.
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  And one thing that I decided to do was actually removing a lot of the tech,
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  you know, removing that comfort blanket, that technological comfort blanket
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  that students may have, because immediately they're on their Papagor,
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  their Neva dictionary, just to translate or to scan what's been written.
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  And it's like, well, actually, no, just stop there, just wait,
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  because there's a beauty in...
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  Discovering rather than being spoon-fed everything instantly, I suppose.
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  Yeah, it's funny. Oh, yeah, go on.
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  I was going to say, what are your thoughts then?
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  You know, we've touched upon technology or media to some extent,
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  but what's your thoughts, Manny, when it comes down to removing in some of that
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  technology and giving students time to internalize what they've been learning in the classroom.
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  I definitely agree with removing the tech.
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  So if you are a normal student in Korea,
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  it's normal for kids to learn English
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  all the time at school so i always tell
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  them you guys already have learned all the
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  knowledge that you you need to learn so all
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  you need to do is just spit it out and it doesn't
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  matter if you're right or wrong just whatever you're
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  imaging that just just spit that thing
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  out whether it's a word or a wrong
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  sentence or or just a stutter like so for example the younger kids they don't
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  have this but when this one case when i saw when i met a high school girl the
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  first time she came she was like.
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  She couldn't make any sound because she has never tried it.
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  But I encouraged her to stutter as much as she can. And I said, that is the start.
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  And then she spit it out, words.
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  And then the words became very short sentences. And then it became wrong sentences.
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  And then later, she got used to it and started talking.
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  So I guess if this process is done by ChatGPT or Papago, it's not making your brain work.
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  So I think it's a must for students to actually...
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  Ponder upon, oh, what do I really want to say?
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  And personally, I think the grammatical way of the Korean English education is a bothering.
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  Very bothersome for people
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  to learn English because the more
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  they have studied the English grammar through the
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  korean education they they think about the
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  structure first they're like okay so where does the
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  subject verb and is this a noun pronoun and and
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  i can see their eyes thinking about that structure so i always tell the more
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  learned students i say okay forget about it just just forget about that just
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  spit it out whatever it is and make a lot of mistakes Mm-hmm.
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  And one metaphor I tell my students is, you know, imagine you're swimming or
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  you're learning to swim.
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  Do you actually want to read a book about swimming and you learn everything,
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  all the history and the methodology and the process, the application of swimming,
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  and you know swimming completely back to front?
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  Or, you know, do you actually,
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  learns women by actually practicing and making
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  those mistakes and it's the same with language do you want to study about linguistics
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  and the grammar and everything else like that but not be able to produce the
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  language and so that that's the sort of metaphor i tell my students and that's
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  when they have that light bulb moment they go ah okay let's just speak.
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  I've found that using music so
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  setting the environment to be a bit more relaxed
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  so I try to make my environment like a coffee shop
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  so I've got I've always got background music so that people feel
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  like no one's listening to my conversation and my mistakes
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  so that they focus more in on like
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  their conversations and I also I usually play like a lot of music sometimes
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  it annoys my like co-workers sometimes they're actually thankful because I remember
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  there was one time so I tried this out I wanted students to speak with a bit more volume.
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  And to kind of just so that they can kind of practice the
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  pronunciation the intonation and just to force
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  them to like I have to say out loud
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  what I'm thinking and not quietly so I
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  chose this I think was it satisfaction it's like
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  this club music with like you know the bass is going
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  douche douche douche I cranked up
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  the volume so loud that the
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  next door class later on the professor
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  was like did you play like this
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  loud music thank you because all my
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  students started to move and groove and we
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  all started to join in it actually you know
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  brought up the kind of atmosphere and stuff
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  like that so I did apologize I was like I'm sorry maybe you were
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  doing a test or like quiet reading and then.
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  You're there hearing satisfaction but I
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  found that putting the music on because one
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  thing I was like if I can get them relaxed maybe they'll
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  be free to make mistakes and open up a
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  little bit more so that has worked
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  but what I've struggled with is
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  when I have one or two students who say
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  nothing like if you
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  say a couple of things like if you stutter I can
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  work with that because I can be like keep doing it but then
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  I have those students who just nothing like
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  they won't even open their mouth so how do we deal with that any any ideas have
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  you ever come across a super shy student how do you work without like you know
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  I don't know bringing bringing them out of their shell getting them to try so I think.
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  Whenever I see a person who doesn't feel comfortable about making sounds,
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  I let them read it out loud first.
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  So getting away the burden of free talking.
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  So yeah, read the text.
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  And then usually they do read it or repeat after me.
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  So that would kind of give them a warm up. And most of the students who stay
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  quiet are the ones who really, really are afraid of making the mistake.
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  So just warm up by...
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  Making them speak out loud by reading.
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  And I guess a lot of time is needed doing that first.
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  And then also for a lot of the really, really bigger beginners,
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  I asked them to write their journals, like their everyday diary about themselves.
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  Like, what do you do? What is your daily routine?
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  And go with a really big, Really, really obvious stuff. What time do you wake
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  up? And they're like, I wake up at 7 o'clock.
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  And then do you eat breakfast? Then I eat breakfast.
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  And just go with the really obvious stuff that they have to.
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  It's like, everybody wakes up. Everybody eats.
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  So they have to say it.
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  It's like the simpler conversations before tackling the difficult ones.
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  I suppose for me, in my thought process, whenever I have students who are obviously
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  low level and quite reticent and not really wanting to communicate,
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  I tend to, I do sort of a pyramid activity where, you know, I get students to
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  write down certain ideas to questions I have.
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  And then I pair them up into, you know...
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  Yeah into twos pairs sorry yeah
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  and then I put them into larger
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  groups and what have you until they start to you
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  know formulate what they want to say and then
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  I nominate certain students and then that's when
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  they can refer to what they've written and there's
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  also that balancing where it's more
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  you know structured and supportive and
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  then the balance of having that authentic communication
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  and if you're able to have a sort of controlled environment
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  and a more spontaneous environment where
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  you're you're moving towards that that other end that
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  authentic spontaneous interaction that
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  that's better but then obviously we need to strive for routines and and give
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  the students the necessary skills that they're able to communicate in a way
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  yeah what i've also found interesting is that a lot of the classes that I have,
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  students are quite happy speaking in pairs or even in small groups like three. Mm-hmm.
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  As soon as I'm like, right, you've been speaking about this topic for maybe, let's say, 10 minutes.
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  Now, let's go around and share what you've been talking about so that we can
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  kind of open it up into a discussion.
• 22:00
  It just goes dead. I've like lost them.
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  And I'm always baffled because, you know, when they're talking to each other,
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  you know, it's really energetic.
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  Mouths are moving. People are obviously saying something.
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  I don't know if it's about the topic. I'm trusting that it's about
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  the topic but you know they're using
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  so much energy but as soon as it's like all
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  right let's do it as a whole class so that we
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  can all hear each other's ideas and sharing just
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  you know nobody says anything and then
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  I've literally got to pull it out and be like you give
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  me something you know and then that's
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  where I think I have the issue where I start to
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  fill in too much for them because it's
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  too quiet and so I start to give the ideas
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  which I think sometimes it you know it takes away that opportunity from students
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  but it's I'm I just feel so lost because it's like I want you to talk you're
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  not talking I'm looking at the time it's too awkward so then you know any ideas
• 23:05
  about that like or can you give us some more.
• 23:08
  Tips about why Korean students are so reluctant in terms of group discussions?
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  Or is there something that we can maybe bear in mind when it comes to that?
• 23:18
  I think it's a really cultural thing. Koreans are not used to giving presentations
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  and they're not used to speaking in front of groups.
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  And the public education is still focused on giving the right answers.
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  So it's not easy for us
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  to think creatively and talk
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  without giving the right
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  answer so for
• 23:47
  the younger kids i i would try
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  like the would you rather questions like you
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  have to yeah pick either one but
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  the really silly questions so those
• 23:59
  kind of worked because it it really interested them like the the like would
• 24:03
  you be an octopus or would you rather be a unicorn like things like that like
• 24:09
  they would suddenly become very interested but that was very temporary so.
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  So to tell you the truth it is very hard to come up with a solution for this
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  because I think this has nothing to do with English.
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  It's a cultural background thing.
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  We feel embarrassed just to be seen in front of the public or a group of more than four or five.
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  So what kind of worked in the haguans, the academies, was,
• 24:57
  so using the pictures on the screen so
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  if it were for example harry potter every
• 25:04
  chapter is seen as is shown as
• 25:07
  one picture then you can just briefly talk about
• 25:10
  that picture in one or two sentences which is
• 25:13
  yeah retelling without actually putting
• 25:17
  your thought into it so that maybe
• 25:20
  it works yeah if you were
• 25:23
  to say so what are your thoughts about
• 25:26
  this chapter it's like my thoughts
• 25:30
  am i am i allowed to think i mean and what's the right answer what should i
• 25:40
  say yeah what should my thoughts be so so it's interesting that you say that
• 25:44
  because i did an activity where it was four corners and i had Agree, slightly disagree.
• 25:51
  I would slightly agree, really disagree, and then whatever.
• 25:54
  You know, I put just four corners with different answers. And I would say a statement.
• 25:59
  Like, for example, I think ketchup is better than mayonnaise.
• 26:03
  And then you would go to where I call out.
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  And what was really interesting, out of 30 students, only two students had differing opinions.
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  Everybody else was like a bunch of sheep that all went to the same corner at the time.
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  And I was I was kind of shocked because I didn't
• 26:21
  expect it I expected a lot more variations with
• 26:25
  the answers but it's like question after question
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  it was just the same thing they would either move this way
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  or they would move that way and I saw one student
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  one student was a foreigner so I understood that
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  she she wasn't going to think the same anyways because
• 26:40
  our experiences are different another student's Korean but
• 26:43
  even in the way he carries himself he's slightly a bit
• 26:46
  more of a kind of a rebel he does his
• 26:48
  own thing kind of thing so only those two
• 26:51
  chose different opinions everybody else
• 26:54
  would kind of look around and see where is
• 26:58
  everyone moving okay let's go this way and I was really shocked because I was
• 27:02
  like you are you know you're 19 plus and how are you all you know moving I was
• 27:11
  really I don't know I think maybe as a British person I couldn't believe that But at that age.
• 27:18
  You know, the kind of the group mentality was so strong. Following the later shocker.
• 27:24
  Yeah, it was really shocking.
• 27:27
  It's very, very cultural. In Korean, we call it the 단일 민족, which means we are the people of unity.
• 27:37
  So if we don't unite, that is a weirdo.
• 27:41
  Yeah. So going, going, following, really following the strong leader.
• 27:47
  And also the Korean culture still does not have the idea that if you become
• 27:56
  19, you're an individual adult.
• 27:59
  We still don't have that. so becoming
• 28:03
  independent is not normal for 20 year
• 28:06
  olds we are still under the reign of our moms and dads wow that's just mind-boggling
• 28:16
  yeah so the koreans are so used to just obeying to the elders,
• 28:26
  so yeah it is a cultural thing how to help them not do that hmm.
• 28:36
  I don't know. I kind of feel sorry for all the students that have been in my
• 28:41
  class and have been forced to give your opinion, make a decision.
• 28:45
  That must have been really, really hard thinking back. would
• 28:48
  it be better for students to say
• 28:51
  okay well in korean in the culture of korean
• 28:54
  this is how you operate but then within
• 28:57
  english don't try and put put it together with korean because of course it won't
• 29:03
  translate so try and separate and within english whilst you're communicating
• 29:08
  in english you can be your own individual you can be who you want to be you
• 29:13
  don't need to conform Right.
• 29:16
  So I think the cultural education should come prior to the language education,
• 29:26
  because the whole ideology is very different.
• 29:30
  So for example when i would
• 29:33
  teach my younger group of kids i would
• 29:36
  show them like a youtube clip of western kids in a choir and talk about their
• 29:44
  attitude and and i would ask them so what do you feel from their expression
• 29:50
  their facial expressions or their posture and the kids would say,
• 29:56
  they look confident, they look free,
• 29:59
  and I would tell them, yes, that's what we need.
• 30:06
  But when they go back to their reality,
• 30:10
  It's still so hard for Koreans to show oneself differently from others.
• 30:18
  The ones who are different from others are still considered an outcast and a strange person.
• 30:29
  I learned the word, is it wangta? I learned the term wangta.
• 30:34
  Yeah, wangta is a little bit more negative.
• 30:37
  So a kid who is purposefully
• 30:42
  outcasted from the main group kind of
• 30:46
  a soft word for bullying okay
• 30:50
  oh okay yes right well
• 30:54
  i'm gonna move over to today's
• 30:58
  sponsorship and this show is brought
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  to you in partnership with hashet learning publishers of
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  and visit www.hashettelearning.com to
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  explore their full range of titles right well obviously minnie you spent from
• 31:27
  the introduction you spent a period of time in italy you obviously are proficient
• 31:33
  in English or fluent in English,
• 31:35
  and you've also had a background of being brought up in Korea,
• 31:40
  so there's probably about three cultures going on.
• 31:45
  What sort of experience did you have within Europe, and how different was that
• 31:52
  to all the other experiences that you had?
• 31:57
  Huh. Experiences in Europe. Yeah.
• 32:01
  So, the Italians were more similar to Koreans than the Americans,
• 32:08
  which was kind of fun, which was kind of funny because... Yeah, I was always told that,
• 32:15
  Koreans are like the Italians of Asia. Yes. Oh, really? We are all very hot-tempered.
• 32:27
  Like, when the Americans, when they come out of the airport and when they see
• 32:32
  the people waiting, the Italians were all like, they weren't smiling.
• 32:37
  And the Americans would come out and say, smile, people.
• 32:42
  Kind of like the koreans we don't smile so that was kind of interesting,
• 32:50
  so a lot of the a lot of the asian people might think all the white people are
• 32:57
  similar but they are similar in some way but very different in some other ways
• 33:03
  too i think uh italian culture,
• 33:08
  the food is really good did you find it salty?
• 33:14
  Because I heard from Koreans before that when they've gone to Italy and they
• 33:18
  want to be like let's try you know pizza and then they were like ah too salty
• 33:22
  like they complained that it wasn't,
• 33:24
  like compared to Italian food in Korea and actual Italian food they were like
• 33:29
  pretty shocked or did you adapt pretty quickly?
• 33:32
  According to my memory it was not salty it was really delicious Rather,
• 33:39
  I have this memory of when I was in university, I went to Virginia,
• 33:44
  and the first potato chips were salty as heck.
• 33:50
  I was really surprised. Okay. Potato chips, you mean like for us British?
• 33:55
  Crisps. Crisps. Ah, see? European and...
• 34:02
  American English. American English. Yeah.
• 34:06
  Well, yeah, potato chips, crisps are incredibly salty.
• 34:13
  Yes. Yeah. Do you know something that's really changed me in Korea?
• 34:17
  I've had to adapt to American English. When I first came, I said football.
• 34:22
  And then over the years, I've just disgustingly started to say soccer.
• 34:27
  Soccer. It really makes me sick that I say that word.
• 34:32
  But I've just had to say it. Like one of the frustrating things is that students
• 34:38
  are more used to the American accent.
• 34:41
  So when I go to Pame, I would say something like, OK, this is the answer.
• 34:44
  And then they'll go like, what? Like, answer?
• 34:48
  And then I'd be like, answer. And they're like, oh, yeah.
• 34:53
  And the vowel sounds are all over the place when it comes down to the English.
• 34:59
  Like the Koreans would, they had this joke about British English.
• 35:04
  One of the first words that we learned is water, but then we would talk about
• 35:10
  British English and water, water.
• 35:13
  Water. Yeah, water.
• 35:17
  It's funny because one of times I've been asked to say that word.
• 35:21
  One of my students from last week actually said, can you say this?
• 35:26
  This is a current meme going on in Korea, and it's like a bottle of water.
• 35:30
  But then if you use it in Cockney slang, it's like a bottle of water.
• 35:37
  Yeah, that and also I came today.
• 35:41
  I came today. I came today is I came to die. I came today. Is that Australian?
• 35:51
  Could you try saying I came today? I came today.
• 35:57
  In British accent, the Koreans would make a joke about I came to die.
• 36:04
  Oh, really? I think that's Australian. That today sounds...
• 36:08
  Or it could be Essex. Today. came today yeah something like that yeah maybe.
• 36:19
  That's one thing that I do think should happen
• 36:22
  more is introducing our students to different accents
• 36:26
  and not just I'm not just talking about you
• 36:29
  know British I'm talking about even other English
• 36:32
  countries that are lesser known like Nigeria is an
• 36:35
  English speaking country you know and we've got some kind
• 36:39
  of nigerian community here and how they speak and
• 36:42
  also their music is quite popular nowadays in the
• 36:45
  western world and so it's really important i think
• 36:48
  to expose our students to other accents so
• 36:51
  that they understand that it's not
• 36:54
  you don't just have to aim for one thing you know
• 36:57
  and and maybe it might help them to be
• 37:00
  okay about their own you know korean accents
• 37:04
  because they realize actually there are tons of accents
• 37:07
  out there there's tons of ways that people
• 37:10
  use english speak it i mean if you listen to
• 37:12
  patwa you know from jamaica yeah there's
• 37:16
  there's just so many even i always tell people london alone depending on the
• 37:22
  area that you're in even one street from another street can be completely different
• 37:27
  mannerisms ways of speaking you know like if If I said Bob's your uncle, what would you think?
• 37:35
  What was your uncle? Bob's your uncle. Bob's your uncle?
• 37:41
  Bob's your uncle. Bob. B-O-B. B-O-B. Yeah, Bob's your uncle. Oh, Bob is your uncle?
• 37:48
  Bob's your uncle, yeah. Bob is your uncle.
• 37:52
  Uncle's name is Bob. Okay, but what does it mean? There's a meaning behind it.
• 37:58
  There's a meaning behind it. Bob's your uncle. Huh.
• 38:04
  Not your uncle I have no idea.
• 38:11
  I love how you're like really thinking,
• 38:16
  how would we describe it what's your uncle it's like,
• 38:22
  almost immediately that happened or almost immediately that was the answer or
• 38:28
  this was the result that's it That's exactly it.
• 38:33
  Yeah, yeah. That's exactly it.
• 38:37
  I went down to my local patisserie in Dejeon because we have lots of bread here.
• 38:44
  And Bob's your uncle, I ended up with three croissants.
• 38:47
  Oh. Ah.
• 38:52
  Ah. Now I learned something new.
• 38:56
  Yeah. Martin, I don't know if you're aware of this, but using people's names
• 39:01
  within the sentence, for example, the famous football player,
• 39:05
  what was it? Frank Lampard.
• 39:08
  Like I could say, let's be Frank, let's be Lampard. Have you ever used that?
• 39:12
  Ah, I've never used that.
• 39:14
  You've never used that? No, no. I know that, you know, I grew up in the late
• 39:19
  90s and early 2000s as a young adult, and Pete Tong was a prolific DJer at that time.
• 39:28
  Pete Tong used to do DJ sets and everything else like that. And,
• 39:31
  you know, one of the slangs is, oh, everything's gone Pete Tong.
• 39:36
  It's like a cockney rhyming slang and
• 39:39
  it means like everything's gone wrong wrong yeah
• 39:43
  everything so we've got all of these all
• 39:46
  of these things i think it's so it's so
• 39:49
  diverse it's so complex it's so beautiful but
• 39:53
  we end up just okay everybody just let's
• 39:56
  just follow this one thing even in america depending on
• 39:59
  which state you're in the accents are all different mannerisms
• 40:03
  are also different like i remember one of my um
• 40:06
  i used to work in starbucks and our manager was from
• 40:09
  i don't know the southern part
• 40:13
  of america like the kind
• 40:16
  of north carolina side of america
• 40:20
  of north america and the way
• 40:23
  that this lady carried herself was exactly like
• 40:26
  how you would see in the movies I mean her hair was like
• 40:29
  big and she you know she was
• 40:31
  this like Monday morning she'd be like good morning everybody
• 40:35
  like too much energy for like just the work that we were doing and she was always
• 40:41
  about barbecues and traveling and you know her like her persona was really really
• 40:47
  funny and interesting to learn about so for me I feel like that should be more
• 40:52
  of a part in the classroom,
• 40:55
  maybe if we do that, could it reduce the anxiety of accents and.
• 41:01
  Perfectionism i don't know yeah it's
• 41:04
  kind of changing like back in the old days
• 41:08
  the american english the american pronunciation was
• 41:11
  the was the only answer but as time passed on passed by the diverse cultural
• 41:22
  english became another thing and i think one of the biggest changes was the test toik,
• 41:31
  they never had other
• 41:34
  pronunciation than American English at
• 41:37
  some point the listening tests conveyed different
• 41:41
  accents like the last
• 41:44
  time it was a long time ago I heard was there
• 41:47
  were there was a British accent and there was an
• 41:50
  Australian accent and yeah so
• 41:54
  the Korean tests are the english
• 41:57
  tests are using different accents and
• 42:01
  also korean celebrities a lot of them have like interviews and people are now
• 42:10
  more used to seeing them using the korean accent on the media so i think it's changing now.
• 42:22
  That's true well i'm gonna move swiftly
• 42:26
  into our second sponsorship for today and teachers teachers talk connect is
• 42:32
  back um our annual cpd networking extravaganza join the ttr team on saturday
• 42:38
  the 14th of march in manchester tickets are free what are you waiting for head over to,
• 42:45
  ttradio.org forward slash connect 2026 and i'll put a link in the comments so
• 42:51
  you can access that as well,
• 42:54
  um right well moving on
• 42:57
  you spent a period of time
• 43:00
  in america is that right yes yes
• 43:04
  how long had you been in america
• 43:07
  before you returned you know to korea
• 43:11
  i i'm assuming your background was korean in
• 43:15
  some regard but you you had some period
• 43:18
  outside of korea right you returned back into the mainstream education right
• 43:24
  after some period there must have been some difficulties that you encountered
• 43:29
  when you returned back to korea how how was this process for you.
• 43:37
  So i went to america right
• 43:40
  after i was born so i was a hundred days
• 43:43
  born baby when i was when i when i first went to the u.s and then i came to
• 43:51
  and fro and the last time i came to korea was when i was in first grade in elementary
• 43:57
  school so that that culture shock.
• 44:03
  Like the first thing i remember was when
• 44:07
  i was in the u.s and all the students would sit
• 44:11
  with their backs straight but in korea when the teacher said like okay everybody
• 44:16
  now write the stuff on the board on your note on your notebooks and everybody
• 44:22
  would just just all the 50 kids and i was like.
• 44:34
  And and punishment uh was a normal thing everybody would get hurt would get
• 44:41
  hit with a stick so everybody so education in korea was what's it called it's.
• 44:52
  It's just this whole big part of punishment and violence.
• 44:57
  It was really scary. Wow.
• 45:01
  So whether you don't listen to the teacher or if you get stuff wrong,
• 45:06
  you would get hit physically, physical violence. Yeah.
• 45:12
  Especially in math, they would like give us quizzes.
• 45:16
  And if it were like 30 questions and
• 45:19
  i got 20 wrong then they would hit us 20 times oh
• 45:23
  yes yes yes did they use
• 45:26
  the ruler as well to hit you but not on the the wide side but on the very narrow
• 45:31
  side no they use the white side okay because my my wife was telling me when
• 45:38
  she was growing up and going through education herself that you know they would
• 45:42
  stand in a line and And, you know,
• 45:44
  the number of questions you got wrong, you got hit.
• 45:48
  All these students would be standing in the line. And, you know,
• 45:51
  once she got 10 questions wrong and she got, you know, hit with the ruler.
• 45:56
  But they didn't use the wide side, but they used the narrow side.
• 46:00
  It's really painful. It's more painful. It depends. It depends on the teacher.
• 46:06
  And the wide side ruler, like many of the times it just broke because the teacher
• 46:12
  hit so much. Oh, man. Wow.
• 46:15
  Yeah. I recall as well, back in 2005, it's completely changed nowadays in Korea.
• 46:21
  But I remember some of these kids that I was teaching in the hagwon,
• 46:26
  they were kind of, you know, rebellious and kids are kids.
• 46:30
  And, you know, there was nothing wrong with them. But then after about 10 minutes,
• 46:35
  they disappeared out of the classroom, the director had lined them up, all three of these kids.
• 46:39
  And they put them, you know, all boys, and they were like,
• 46:42
  putting dictionaries above their heads or putting
• 46:45
  them into stress positions and you know
• 46:48
  and i was thinking oh my god the poor kids
• 46:51
  you know and also
• 46:56
  i remember the scariest thing that the
• 46:59
  scariest punishment in the u.s as as a
• 47:02
  first grader in elementary school was being sent out of
• 47:05
  the classroom yeah uh that that was like a really shock a big shock for me but
• 47:11
  they other than that there was nothing violent no no i i remember vividly being
• 47:20
  sent out of the classroom my french class.
• 47:23
  And i was i was,
• 47:26
  I was so scared. I was going to say something else there, but I was incredibly scared.
• 47:32
  And I was a nervous wreck because I could hear the head teacher walking down
• 47:37
  and I was thinking, oh my God, if he spots me, what shall I say? Oh my God.
• 47:42
  And then another time I got a detention and I was so scared.
• 47:47
  I couldn't show my parents this slip that they had to sign.
• 47:51
  So in the end, I forged my parents signature and
• 47:54
  I turned up to the detention like
• 47:57
  here's a slip I'm gonna stay for
• 48:00
  30 minutes and do whatever you want me to do and
• 48:03
  I'm gonna go back home and pretend I was really busy yeah
• 48:09
  the bus was late a couple of times for me because I got
• 48:12
  so many detentions not I wasn't particularly bad I
• 48:15
  was just very chatty I always had something to
• 48:18
  say so I got sent out a lot got lots of
• 48:20
  detentions and then now I'm a teacher who now
• 48:24
  has to deal with kids like me which is so
• 48:28
  ironic and so funny oh I
• 48:32
  think you made a good point oh sorry Martin go
• 48:34
  ahead how is the the whole
• 48:37
  situation because recently within Korea there's been the issue of teachers having
• 48:44
  that challenge of dealing with parents even at universities you know where you
• 48:51
  have these young university students and the parents are demanding regrading
• 48:55
  and everything else like that.
• 48:57
  And there's been high-profile cases where teachers have committed.
• 49:05
  I'm not going to say the word, but they've ended their life due to the pressure and stress of parents.
• 49:12
  And how has it changed and evolved when it comes down to classroom management
• 49:18
  and punishment of students in Korea.
• 49:21
  Wow, that part of the school, it changed so much.
• 49:28
  So I always wondered how teachers deal with the problems in school because now
• 49:36
  teachers aren't allowed to, they are restricted in many parts.
• 49:41
  So I think it's an ongoing problem,
• 49:46
  and we are still looking for some good answers, which we don't have yet because
• 49:54
  every small problem is now evolved into 학폭,
• 50:00
  which means school violence.
• 50:04
  So whatever small thing happens, it just goes on to the documentary.
• 50:11
  It becomes public. And everything starts going to court.
• 50:20
  And everybody's being sued.
• 50:23
  I heard this one case in Seoul and at one elementary school,
• 50:30
  one third of the teachers were gone because the students sued their teachers. Wow. Yeah.
• 50:37
  So I think we're in that middle process of era where we're struggling with the
• 50:48
  discipline, the method of disciplining.
• 50:51
  So I'm not sure. I always think about what's right and wrong.
• 50:57
  And I think a lot of the Korean teachers are struggling because of that. And yes.
• 51:04
  Especially, as I said, the Korean culture is, it's very, you have to obey as a student.
• 51:13
  That was our past culture. But now the new generation, it changed so fast.
• 51:18
  They're like, they have become very rebellious, but without core value, I think.
• 51:26
  So I think everybody's very confused right now.
• 51:32
  It kind of reminds me how things were you
• 51:35
  know i talked to my parents about their
• 51:38
  upbringing and how they got through education and
• 51:41
  they went through a period where they were punished physically if
• 51:45
  they ever misbehaved and then that was banned you weren't allowed to do you
• 51:53
  know harm kids of course and and you know kids became more rebellious and and i always consider like,
• 52:03
  careers like just a few steps behind the uk when it comes down to the how things
• 52:09
  are evolving and developing and you know and it's always a good opportunity
• 52:14
  to to compare where career is socially.
• 52:20
  And compare it with other countries and their history of, you know,
• 52:24
  within the education industry. Mm-hmm.
• 52:27
  It is quite interesting because, yeah, I agree with you because sometimes I'm
• 52:32
  like, no matter what problems I face in Korea with students, you know.
• 52:37
  Apart from like really severe bullying, but in terms of like misbehaving or
• 52:41
  talking in class, it is nothing compared to what I witnessed as a student in London.
• 52:47
  Like it is far worse i don't
• 52:51
  even know if i could teach elementary in some
• 52:54
  uk schools because i remember i was on the bus this sixth
• 52:57
  grader like year six student looked at me square in
• 53:00
  the eyes and i was like if i were at that
• 53:03
  age i would have been too afraid to look at an adult
• 53:06
  in the like let alone in their eyes as
• 53:09
  if to say i'm gonna challenge you like i don't even remember what
• 53:12
  it was about but I just remember he was so determined
• 53:15
  to stand his ground and just
• 53:18
  look at me and I even felt intimidated so sometimes
• 53:22
  I'm like yes there are problems in Korea
• 53:25
  but to some extent there's
• 53:29
  still like students still respect the teacher
• 53:32
  and yes parents are overstepping but
• 53:35
  there's still some kind of you can still
• 53:38
  manage things to a certain extent without it going completely
• 53:42
  wild but i i suppose as well what
• 53:45
  we what we hear in the media is just
• 53:47
  the small elements of right you know the extreme cases yeah rather than the
• 53:54
  how things are in reality what i had issues with was because i'm a foreigner
• 54:01
  i once taught kindergarten and this was a class I said, it's not my class.
• 54:06
  I was just coming in to do a few classes for like a winter camp.
• 54:11
  On the first day, there was a boy, a student, let's just call him Minsu.
• 54:17
  He wasn't listening. He wasn't following anything. The classroom teacher was
• 54:22
  like, you know, that's how he usually is.
• 54:24
  And so I was like, okay, I'm not going to pay too much attention to him.
• 54:28
  As long as he's safe, it's okay.
• 54:30
  But what had happened is at one point, he actually joined in a game and he won.
• 54:35
  And when you win, I would give you a sticker on your hand to say, you know, well done.
• 54:39
  But because he just kept on misbehaving and not listening, I was like,
• 54:43
  well, I'm going to take that sticker away.
• 54:45
  Biggest mistake. He gave the biggest tantrum and was like crying and everything like that.
• 54:51
  I didn't know the effect of me doing that and how much trouble the homeroom teacher would get into.
• 54:58
  Because what happened is as soon as the parents came to pick up the kids,
• 55:02
  the mom looked at her son crying. And she didn't look at me,
• 55:06
  who was actually leading the class. She looked at the Korean teacher and said, what have you done?
• 55:12
  Why is my son crying? So all her anger was put on her.
• 55:16
  And it was later after the kids had gone, I spoke to the teacher.
• 55:20
  And she's like, to be honest with you, it's really difficult.
• 55:22
  I can't discipline him in any way because the parent would complain as soon
• 55:28
  as they don't want, you know, in particular, this particular parent didn't want
• 55:33
  her son to cry or to be told off.
• 55:36
  And so the teacher just felt like, what can I do?
• 55:39
  You know, I can't tell him off, but he's not listening.
• 55:43
  And it's really, at some points, it really disrupted
• 55:46
  the class because he was just so noisy
• 55:50
  and sometimes slightly violent and so
• 55:53
  I just felt so sorry for her I apologized profusely
• 55:57
  because I was like I was the one that went in there like Rambo and
• 56:00
  being like you need to listen to the teacher you know and I
• 56:03
  felt really really sorry but number one I can't
• 56:06
  even communicate in Korean to be able to talk to the
• 56:09
  parent and explain to her that I you know he's not being punished for no reason
• 56:14
  but we're trying to teach him rules of the lesson we're trying to get him to
• 56:18
  follow you know the class rules and to learn so I think my question to you Mini
• 56:25
  is how do you deal with a parent who.
• 56:28
  Kind of they have their own expectations how do you realistically communicate,
• 56:34
  expectations to parents when it comes to behavior or
• 56:37
  even just the kids ability to learn English because
• 56:40
  some parents they have this idea in their mind my kids should
• 56:43
  be here why are they not here give me the reasons like how have
• 56:46
  you dealt with maybe pushy parents or tiger moms or do you have any I feel like
• 56:52
  you would have like you've got your ability of being like dealing with well
• 56:59
  I I haven't really taught in like a classroom situation so much,
• 57:06
  but as a parent,
• 57:08
  I have seen the changes of how the public schools have been dealing with the parenting.
• 57:15
  And I've been getting a lot of
• 57:17
  messages publicly from schools
• 57:21
  saying that these are what the teachers
• 57:24
  are doing and the punishment is because of this and that and the school tries
• 57:31
  to convey the message to parents like try to try to tell them please give authority to the teachers so.
• 57:44
  They have detail notices as
• 57:48
  far as saying like please do not speak
• 57:52
  bad of the teacher in front of your kids your
• 57:56
  mistrust will bring the mistrust of your child to the teacher and please talk
• 58:02
  to the teacher before you go to the police or a bigger organization so the school
• 58:08
  keeps on giving messages like detail yeah yeah steps.
• 58:15
  And also, they have this wee class.
• 58:19
  It's called a wee class where it's basically a therapy classroom that's in all the schools now.
• 58:29
  But they also say if parents need to talk about something, they can go there.
• 58:35
  And they have this application where the parents can always communicate with the teacher.
• 58:42
  So they say from some time to some time, you can always communicate, ask questions.
• 58:50
  And if there is a problem, please respond.
• 58:54
  Do not listen to your child's point of view only.
• 58:58
  Please wait till the other points of views come.
• 59:04
  So they really try to educate the parents too.
• 59:10
  It's good to know that these steps are in place because I really did feel sorry
• 59:15
  for that teacher at that time having to deal with that.
• 59:18
  But it's good to know that, you know, I guess it's really difficult.
• 59:22
  It's a new territory. So it's good to know that they're putting things in place.
• 59:27
  Particularly with technology these days when students can record their teacher
• 59:33
  or certain situations which may appear different to how actually things were
• 59:41
  prior to whatever they captured with their smart devices.
• 59:44
  And it would really cause challenges or a conflict of interest or put the school
• 59:51
  into disrepute if it's just you're looking at a 10-second clip,
• 59:56
  but you're not looking at anything before that which led up to it, I suppose.
• 1:00:02
  There's a lot to unpack there, I suppose, culturally.
• 1:00:07
  Anyhow, I'm going to just slide into our sponsorship for today.
• 1:00:11
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• 1:00:15
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• 1:00:19
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• 1:00:28
  to explore their full range of titles.
• 1:00:31
  Right, well, during the introduction of yourself, Minnie, Claudia mentioned
• 1:00:39
  that you're involved with,
• 1:00:42
  video creation or video content creation? I don't know specifically. Film director.
• 1:00:50
  Film director. Wow. Fantastic. That's brilliant.
• 1:00:54
  Thank you. Could you share us a little bit more about that experience at all?
• 1:00:58
  Well, I am in various fields of filmmaking.
• 1:01:02
  I have made short films, and I am also teaching students how to make smartphone short films as well.
• 1:01:14
  Is that with elementary? Oh, sorry. What led you into that, Annie?
• 1:01:18
  Oh, okay. I'll answer both of it. Yeah.
• 1:01:23
  I my experience in the American School of Milan in Italy there was always the
• 1:01:30
  drama class and after school musicals so it was a great opportunity for me to
• 1:01:37
  be able to participate in lots of art subjects.
• 1:01:43
  So I always felt this really big wanting to be on stage and also create stories.
• 1:01:53
  And later on, I was a big fan of animations and feature films and also TV shows.
• 1:02:01
  And I thought I really needed to do that.
• 1:02:04
  And so I went to University of Virginia as an exchange student,
• 1:02:09
  And I joined their Filmmaker Society. It was a small club in the university.
• 1:02:14
  And I started making short films and documentaries and music videos and dreamed
• 1:02:22
  of becoming a film director.
• 1:02:25
  But then after that i gave
• 1:02:28
  birth to my first son and i always wanted to be a full-time mom as a responsible
• 1:02:36
  person and i never thought of doing those two together like working and then being a mom i was.
• 1:02:47
  Very focused on being a mom
• 1:02:50
  and but it gave
• 1:02:53
  me depression because I couldn't do
• 1:02:56
  what I always wanted to do so I
• 1:03:00
  started searching YouTube and found a teacher
• 1:03:04
  who was making films with his
• 1:03:07
  students and I was like that's really
• 1:03:10
  cool and I should do that and I just
• 1:03:13
  started filming with my kids and
• 1:03:16
  my kids friends and i filmed
• 1:03:20
  with my smartphone and edited and it came
• 1:03:23
  out to be a movie and i'm like wow this
• 1:03:26
  surprisingly works and i submitted it to a film festival and we we got an award
• 1:03:33
  well done congratulations congrats thank you so i was like i was really surprised
• 1:03:43
  that it actually worked.
• 1:03:45
  So from then on I kept on making films with my smartphone and also started co-working
• 1:03:54
  with the kids, giving them the.
• 1:03:59
  Chance to write scripts making the stories and
• 1:04:02
  also holding on to the camera and also
• 1:04:05
  editing and that just led on to teaching
• 1:04:08
  them and now currently i i've
• 1:04:12
  been teaching elementary kids and also middle school students
• 1:04:15
  how to make short films that's amazing that
• 1:04:18
  sounds awesome for me personally i you know
• 1:04:22
  my my background just in videography is
• 1:04:25
  just through my youtube channel and youtube itself has
• 1:04:28
  opened up the opportunity for anyone to capture
• 1:04:32
  any content that they see fit and so
• 1:04:35
  you know the the opportunity for
• 1:04:38
  others to create content video content
• 1:04:42
  is possible and all you need is
• 1:04:45
  just your smartphone at the end of the day and that's
• 1:04:48
  what i used for maybe 10 15
• 1:04:52
  years until i got a camera and most people end
• 1:04:55
  up doing this as a sort of hobby and i've always thought about getting my korean
• 1:05:02
  learners into creating video content whether it is creating a vlog a daily vlog
• 1:05:10
  sorry claudia i'm just going to meet you.
• 1:05:14
  So creating a vlog and i was
• 1:05:17
  thinking about how to get students who
• 1:05:21
  are creative and are artistic in that sense
• 1:05:24
  into creating videos or
• 1:05:27
  documenting their life and you know
• 1:05:31
  my influence has been like casey neistat and
• 1:05:34
  and that sort of thing the raw real footage that's
• 1:05:37
  shown which vlogging was
• 1:05:40
  not really seen as any serious process
• 1:05:44
  but yeah it's really interesting to see how something creative could maybe engage
• 1:05:52
  learners particularly where youtube is seen as you know you ask kids what do
• 1:05:58
  you want to be oh i want to be a youtuber or something like that.
• 1:06:05
  Right actually i i
• 1:06:09
  self-taught myself uh for a long time and
• 1:06:12
  many of the great teachers who taught
• 1:06:16
  me videography was youtubers like i
• 1:06:19
  would i would search words like how to film
• 1:06:22
  by yourself and like and
• 1:06:26
  there were so many teachers on youtube who
• 1:06:29
  showed the step-by-step methods and
• 1:06:33
  also encouraged me to just go and
• 1:06:36
  fill with a smartphone yeah there's
• 1:06:39
  an awful lot of material available on youtube
• 1:06:43
  where it's either the planning the
• 1:06:46
  script in the you know the the recording the
• 1:06:49
  editing and then the post-production and you know
• 1:06:52
  there's there's so many so much resource available
• 1:06:55
  and yeah that there's a.
• 1:06:59
  Great opportunity for students where we
• 1:07:01
  can maybe turn it around for for language
• 1:07:04
  learners where they can maybe access and produce
• 1:07:08
  English-based content regardless of
• 1:07:12
  their their background i suppose right
• 1:07:15
  i haven't tried using video
• 1:07:19
  as a english learning tool yet but my next goal is to make english news cast
• 1:07:29
  with the children and giving them like roles as announcers and and reporters mm-hmm.
• 1:07:36
  Yeah, using the children's content and copying some of them.
• 1:07:44
  Well, I've actually done vlogs and podcasts with university students and mini
• 1:07:51
  videos with elementary students.
• 1:07:53
  And what I wanted to ask was how to improve it.
• 1:07:57
  Because right now, a lot of them are familiar with the vlog content,
• 1:08:01
  not so familiar with what a podcast should look like.
• 1:08:06
  So I'm not sure if podcasts are not very popular in
• 1:08:09
  Korea because they are in like western parts of
• 1:08:12
  the world podcasts are like the it thing like everybody's doing
• 1:08:15
  podcasts but when I give that to my because
• 1:08:18
  I give them the option to either choose video or to make a podcast
• 1:08:20
  on a particular topic and the podcasts usually
• 1:08:24
  tend to then just be people just giving chunks
• 1:08:27
  paragraphs of reading rather than like a conversation and then the videos are
• 1:08:34
  sometimes good but they lack that individual creativity where they give you
• 1:08:40
  their own again that word unique perspective it was just it will be if I show an example.
• 1:08:47
  Everybody will follow that example so sometimes
• 1:08:51
  I don't give an example but if I don't give an example then
• 1:08:54
  they feel like I've never done this before and
• 1:08:57
  I don't know where to start so how do you
• 1:09:00
  get the students to be creative with things like
• 1:09:03
  the making the mini video when they've never done it
• 1:09:06
  before what are some thing instructions that
• 1:09:09
  you give or what approach do you kind of use when
• 1:09:13
  it comes to like working with unique creative things
• 1:09:16
  right i usually do
• 1:09:19
  i spend a lot of time mind mapping like i
• 1:09:23
  i would just say okay be as
• 1:09:26
  silly as possible be as blunt as
• 1:09:29
  possible just spit out anything it doesn't matter you don't have to think just
• 1:09:34
  just spit out anything and then i would write all the keywords on the board
• 1:09:38
  and i would encourage them for example if a kid said jajangmyeon then i would
• 1:09:44
  say oh maybe the jajangmyeon wants to become a jjampong like.
• 1:09:50
  And for those listeners that don't know what
• 1:09:53
  jajangmyeon is it's like a chinese-based black noodle
• 1:09:56
  and a jjampong is a really spicy seafood noodle
• 1:10:00
  i guess yeah for example if the
• 1:10:03
  main character is a hamburger it's a hamburger
• 1:10:06
  who wants to be a pizza and then and
• 1:10:11
  then maybe they need a new bun or then
• 1:10:14
  the kids would like start crazy stuff and
• 1:10:17
  i would encourage that and say like oh that's a great story and then they would
• 1:10:22
  just be really having fun about it and so i would and then i would i would just
• 1:10:28
  be really serious and say oh that is a very good beginning middle at end story.
• 1:10:34
  So what happens to the hamburger in the end?
• 1:10:37
  Or does the hamburger has parental issues? Or I would interpret it in terms
• 1:10:45
  of character or plot or philosophy even.
• 1:10:50
  For example, what value does that hamburger have? What is the background of that hamburger?
• 1:10:57
  Or what is the biggest life problem?
• 1:11:03
  So then we would just talk about crazy stuff and just have fun with it.
• 1:11:07
  And yeah, I guess that storyboarding, that brainstorming, mind mapping,
• 1:11:13
  it's so key to get an engaging video, something that people can connect with as well,
• 1:11:20
  because what you're trying to do is to connect the viewer or the listener to
• 1:11:26
  what story you're wanting to share.
• 1:11:29
  And allow them to be kind of, if they don't make sense,
• 1:11:35
  I kind of allow that and even put it in the final results because that is the raw artness of kids.
• 1:11:45
  Because no adult would put that in the results, the final result. Yeah.
• 1:11:52
  See, that's the other thing I was going to say. Kids in Korea,
• 1:11:56
  I've experienced kids, elementary kids, will take the risk and go a little bit
• 1:12:00
  outside of the box and be very imaginative.
• 1:12:03
  But the university students, I've only ever experienced it one time when I did,
• 1:12:11
  you had to make a music video.
• 1:12:13
  So we wrote the song or the rap, whatever it is, you write, which I guess is
• 1:12:17
  like the mapping, and then you create a video of that song. So I had two boys
• 1:12:23
  who made a song about soju.
• 1:12:24
  So for anyone who doesn't know what soju is, it's like the national drink of
• 1:12:28
  Korea, very cheap alcohol.
• 1:12:31
  So they made a song about their love of soju and they did little clips at home
• 1:12:36
  in the streets. And it was literally like how soju helps me go on and how my
• 1:12:42
  joy, my love, I can eat it with this.
• 1:12:45
  It was so funny and it was so refreshing because I got to see a little bit of
• 1:12:51
  a different side to, you know, the students in the classroom.
• 1:12:55
  But when I've tried to replicate that with other classes, I've really struggled.
• 1:13:01
  And it's made me feel like, where am I going wrong in my instruction?
• 1:13:06
  And something you said earlier, which I'd never really thought about,
• 1:13:09
  was to show culture first before teaching the language, because then they might
• 1:13:15
  understand where we're coming from with some of these ideas.
• 1:13:18
  And so from our talk today, I've realized perhaps I'm expecting them to understand
• 1:13:23
  ideas that they've never experienced that could also be culturally really against people.
• 1:13:30
  Just their whole system of thinking. So it's actually, I'm asking a lot of these
• 1:13:37
  students, you know, which, yeah, it's food for thought, definitely.
• 1:13:44
  It's interesting because I recall a time,
• 1:13:47
  I was working at a hagwon initially when I first started teaching private language
• 1:13:52
  institute for those that aren't aware what a hagwon is,
• 1:13:55
  But I invited six English students to come and visit the UK with me.
• 1:14:03
  But obviously, it was all budgeted and everything else like that.
• 1:14:06
  And I had six students sign up out of the whole Hagwon, and the directors came along with me.
• 1:14:11
  And I recall one instance when I was in London, and the kids were buying some
• 1:14:17
  chocolate or some snacks from the local newsagent, we would say,
• 1:14:22
  or the corner shop, you know, the Pyunijan.
• 1:14:24
  And uh they went in and they picked
• 1:14:27
  out what they wanted to buy and they put it down and immediately asked
• 1:14:31
  how much is it and this guy this
• 1:14:34
  cashier you know this 40 year old guy was like well i don't
• 1:14:37
  know i haven't even scanned it yet and i
• 1:14:40
  had to say don't ask immediately don't
• 1:14:43
  say how much is it like you are in korean because
• 1:14:46
  we don't you know interact like that
• 1:14:49
  you you hand it over you wait he scans
• 1:14:53
  it and then you can say oh how much is that
• 1:14:56
  and it's get that that's all a culture
• 1:14:58
  that communication that was really eye-opening for me because you take it for
• 1:15:04
  granted as a you know within your own culture but you don't see it as an outsider
• 1:15:09
  until you see how your students are interacting within that culture and that
• 1:15:15
  sort of juxtaposition I suppose those.
• 1:15:18
  Yeah. So it's almost like I've got to teach what I understand as creativity to the students.
• 1:15:25
  I've got to make that very clear to them in order for them to understand because
• 1:15:30
  it's almost I have an idea of creativity, what that means to me.
• 1:15:34
  And they have their own versions of creativity. And we always clash because
• 1:15:39
  I'm expecting, like, I'm like, okay, go and make unique videos about university life.
• 1:15:45
  And then I get 10 videos, which are all I wake up in the morning,
• 1:15:48
  I go to the library. And I'm just like, oh, my goodness.
• 1:15:55
  It's a nightmare because I sometimes also I'm like, okay, groups, introduce your video.
• 1:16:00
  And literally video after video, it's the same. It's very boring. And,
• 1:16:06
  I've gone through different roller coasters where I've blamed them and I've blamed myself.
• 1:16:10
  But I think today it's about realizing that maybe we understand creativity differently
• 1:16:15
  just because culturally we see things differently.
• 1:16:18
  Maybe it's about spending a bit more time at the beginning of the semester sharing
• 1:16:25
  my culture, my way of thinking, what I expect and getting them used to that in some ways.
• 1:16:31
  Before then demanding of them to create and show me.
• 1:16:36
  So thank you. I never looked at it that way. So that's really helpful.
• 1:16:41
  It will definitely make a difference in the next semester because I think I'll be a bit kinder.
• 1:16:48
  If I get 10 of the same videos, I'll be like, okay, okay. Maybe you all talked
• 1:16:52
  and you all made an agreement. Let's all do the same thing.
• 1:16:56
  And she has a harder time grading us. Yeah, it certainly gives food for thought.
• 1:17:04
  And, you know, hopefully those watching the show can see or have some inspiration
• 1:17:10
  and some ideas about approaching more creative tasks, whatever they're teaching context also.
• 1:17:16
  But yeah, thank you ever so much, Minnie.
• 1:17:19
  It was wonderful to have you on the show.
• 1:17:22
  Thank you. Yeah, and for you to share your unique journey into teaching and
• 1:17:29
  your experiences within cultures and education. Yeah, thank you.
• 1:17:35
  This was so meaningful. Thank you.
• 1:17:38
  Thank you for coming and sharing. Yeah, well, for those that are watching the
• 1:17:44
  show, thank you ever so much for watching today.
• 1:17:47
  I hope you enjoyed today's show and if you've got any questions feel free to
• 1:17:52
  post a comment where we're streaming our show on LinkedIn YouTube and Twitter.
• 1:18:00
  Twitter, X. It's now called X. But anyway, thank you ever so much.
• 1:18:06
  I hope you enjoyed it. And I'll see you.
• 1:18:09
  And Claudia, we'll see in two weeks' time in our next show.
• 1:18:16
  Looking forward to it. Thank you. Thank you, Giddy. Thank you very much.
• 1:18:20
  Take care, everyone. Yeah. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.
• 1:18:25
  Outstanding and world-class vision, world-class vision.
• 1:18:28
  I'm a real leadership geek. honestly i've spent my whole career
• 1:18:31
  reading books and chatting to people i just find the whole thing and the announcement
• 1:18:35
  the way it's been announced bizarre if you could move away from the model where
• 1:18:39
  teachers are so you've been listening to teachers talk radio tune in live and
• 1:18:44
  listen back at ttradio.org we look forward to hearing from you next time.