Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 354 - Fingering The Wrong Suspects

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JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 354 - Fingering The Wrong Suspects · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Mhm, he is that Tom.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Thank jobs joe Be stend it from a brave and
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: tim Be stan Joey rap to bench over Brady Me
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: then job Joey stend it from a b bame and
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: timber me then show me rip tote show for Brady.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: No one see.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: By sham Jack.
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: Sell them Joe kill we go and here we go,
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: here we go.
• 0:50
  Speaker 4: Indeed, what's up everybody? That's your boy the Triple B
• 0:54
  Speaker 4: along with Joe B and we are here and uh
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: yeah we were off. Hopefully we got our audio issues
• 1:02
  Speaker 4: or show's audio issues fix. On Wednesday night, apparently there
• 1:09
  Speaker 4: was almost some YouTube drama shoe oh yeah yeah. In
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: our little Facebook messenger chat with Jack, He's like, are
• 1:19
  Speaker 4: you' all doing a show tonight? I don't see a thing.
• 1:23
  Speaker 4: I said, yeah. I put the stream up with like noon, dude,
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: it's not there. No, it wasn't there. So I had
• 1:30
  Speaker 4: to go dingle dangle some things over on YouTube. It was,
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: it was on YouTube, it was, it was there. So
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: I just changed it from public back to private and
• 1:41
  Speaker 4: then from private back to public and voila, here we are.
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: Wow. Well in your defense, sir, h yeah, in your Defenser,
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: I saw it right when it was created.
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: And so you're saying, Jackson, No, no.
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: Not what I'm saying at all. But uh yeah, Happy
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: Friday everyone, Thank you for joining us. We have a
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: great chau for you tonight. But let's welcome some of
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: the people, and shall we.
• 2:17
  Speaker 4: Rob, Yes, let's show Sally. Hello, Sally, Sally the.
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: New mom of three kittens.
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: Mm hm wow.
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: And she plans to keep the fan together.
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: He came out, all right, Sally.
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: She plans to keep the fan together. So we love that.
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: God bless you. Yes, Tiny Dancer up in the house.
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: Miss Tiny? How are you?
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: Hello? Tiny the Double B. Mister Brandon Baldric up in
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: that house, Joe the man in the Double B. Let's
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: see who else is up in here? Trey, Shreveport Tray.
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: What's up, buddy, Glad to see you here. Ain't nothing
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: wrong with spaghetti night, buddy.
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: I will be having spaghetti this Sunday night. Joe.
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: Oh yess. That's when the Italians usually do their spaghetti
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: night Sunday nights.
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: We're keeping it traditional.
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: I like it. Spaghetti Knight in Shreveport.
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: There's Jack. What's up? Jack? Thank you, thank you, thank you.
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: Dun dun dum. Paul Vine's up in the house HOLDI sir, Hey, Paul,
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: Anthony Thripp, the best goddamn carpet salesman in Australia, just
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: waking up down there. What's up, Anthony?
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: Wow? Time differences, man, they're crazy.
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: I know we're worldwide, baby, worldwide. I'm scrolling. Just bear
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: with me. Everybody's been in here chatting up a freaking
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: storm without us. Joe, I gotta I gotta go through
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: the list. South to West? What's up? See you hiding
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: in there? Say hello, Scott? Hello is Scott James? What's
• 4:36
  Speaker 4: up James? Old Jim Smith Old Jims in the house.
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: We're just getting to seven o'clock, right.
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: I love that. It's a party in here before we
• 4:49
  Speaker 4: even show up. Oh damn, the double B done gifted
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: five memberships. Joe Wow, off to biz that for South
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: to West, our rocket Queen, Colleen Cammy not a chick,
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: Cammy umbrella man, and Joe Jesus Christ, thanks you the
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: lucky boy.
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: That's like the third time I've been gifted a membership,
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: all right, but I did give back five that that weekend.
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: I was away a couple of months ago, so I
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: guess I'm still plus two.
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: But Paula Jane, Hey Paula.
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: Hey Paula, how are you welcome.
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: Back to the fold system? And I think that brings
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: us to the end. Joe, I'm sure some more stragglers
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: will come tumbling and stumbling up in here. So Saturday
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: night was a debacle or Wednesday night was a debacle,
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: sorry for the members, but y'all stick with us, man,
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: I mean, Joe, this channel has over I think fifty
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: or sixty members and people keep re upp and paulog
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: just re upped. So thank you from the bottom of
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: our heart. We appreciate each and every one of you
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: and channel members and went out with us and showing
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: up and showing out every Wednesday and Friday night and
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: getting up in the chat and opening your lips and
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: being heard and joining the party because we have fun here.
• 6:25
  Speaker 4: We have fun here, and tonight is no exception. It's
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: the title of the show, Fingering the wrong Suspects, Joe,
• 6:37
  Speaker 4: having you finger the wrong suspects.
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: I'm sure there's a joke in there somewhere.
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: Or the wrong hope, But tonight we're gonna be talking
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: about Edwin Walker. General Edwin Walker, who I'm sure fingered
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: many things in his life wrongly or rightly. So we're
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: not going to be talking about him as a whole
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: per se. We're going to be focusing on the event
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: that happened on August tenth, nineteen sixty three, where supposedly
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: two days prior to this, on April eighth, he returned
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: home from being on the road across country where him
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: and the Reverend Billy James Hargas we're doing their midnight
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: ride across the country where they were grifting the nation
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: and in every major city from the East coast to
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: west coast, where they would you know, pull up talk
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: talk a bunch of stuff, give these powerful, rousing speeches,
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: and people would donate, of course money for the cause.
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: So you know, they worked their way across the country
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: and they work their way back, and you know this
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: had to be a long and tiring trip for General
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: Aden Milwalker, who just got back on April eighth. So
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: you know he's only got a week from that point
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: to do his taxes. You know, he better report his
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: taxes April fifteenth. That's it, that's the deadline, Joe. So
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: you know, he gets home on April eighth and he
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: probably is like, on April ninth, I really don't feel
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: like doing anything. Oh my god, I'm so tired, you know.
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: And then April tenth, you know, maybe he catches up
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: on his laundry or you know who knows, cleaning the
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: house whatever, And then that evening, you know, he might
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: make himself a nice stiff drink, maybe on the rocks
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: a little bit, maybe pluck a nice keeping cigar out,
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: sit down at his desk, and proceed to start doing
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: his tax because you know at that point five days yeah, right, yeah,
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: fifteenth yep. And what day of the week was that?
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: Uh it was Wednesday.
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: I think you're pulling that out of your ass. April tenth,
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: nineteen sixty three, day o the week? It was Wednesday.
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: How about that?
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: He caught be worried because I was like, is it Wednesday?
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: So the tenth is a Wednesday? Right?
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: The eleventh and the twelfth is Thursday, Friday, thirteenth Saturday.
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: So Monday is the fifteenth, but.
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: Rob Sunday is Easter. Yeah it's gonna which is gonna
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: come into play when we talk about Orangshield's visit to
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: the Oswaltz.
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: Right, and no mail on Monday, probably due to Easter maybe,
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: I don't know, no recognized holiday nationwide. It's more of
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: a religious holiday, will yeah, I guess. So that kind
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: of sets the scene. Okay, from where we are, it's
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: in the evening. It's dark. General Walker sitting in his
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: house at his desk, doing his taxes. He's got the
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: light on really not too hard for somebody who's outside
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: to see in as he's inside. He's lit up, he's
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: doing his taxes. He's concentrating on other things, not really
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: paying much attention to what's going on outside, even if
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: he could see what's going on outside, because you know,
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: light from the inside, if you're sitting there, it's kind
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: of hard to see outside unless you're right up on
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: the window right because of the reflection. So that's where
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: this story is going to pick up. So Joe, let's
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: get into the Walker shooting, shall we.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: Sure, So, at about nine pm, a bullet narrowly misses
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: mister General Edward Walker as he is dutifully doing his
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  Speaker 3: taxes there, And I'm just going to pick up right
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: away instead of me screwing around with the events here
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: and go right to the police report. As rode up
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: on that night. And I think you're going to talk
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: about the ballistics in a little bit, but this is.
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: Thunder Man.
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: No, I'm not. This is a City of Dallas report,
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  Speaker 3: April tenth, nineteen sixty three. This date, April tenth. Detective
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  Speaker 3: Van Cleeve and McElroy arrived at four one hundred eleven
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  Speaker 3: four zero one one Turtle Creek shortly after the incident
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: was reported. The and this is the only acronym. I
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: couldn't get the c MPL.
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: The the what.
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: Compl period, So it's short for something. It's like I
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: don't know the victim, right, I guess, for lack of
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: a better word, maybe someone. Phyllison stated that he was
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: sitting at his desk in the den doing his income
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: tax return when the incident occurred. Officers observed that a
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: bullet of unknown caliber steel jacket had been shot through
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  Speaker 3: the window, picturing a piercing the frame of the and
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: going into the wall above Comp's head. Walker's head. The
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: bullet lodging is some paper in the next room. Walker
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: stated that when he heard the noise, he thought it
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: was some sort of fireworks shout out to our July
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: fourth episode fireworks. Upon observing the evidence, Walker ran upstairs
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: to his bedroom to get a pistol. He said that
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: he has no idea of who could have committed this offense.
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: The spent bullet was given to Detective B. G. Brown
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: at the scene. We searched the grounds at the rear
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: of the house and also the alley with negative results.
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: We also interviewed Robert Surrey, white male, thirty five of
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: thirty five oh six Lindwood Lane, who was at the
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: scene upon our arrival, so he was already there. The
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: subject is a business associate and aid to the complainant.
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: There we go. The complainant compl that's a weird word
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: to use. The complainant. Mister Surrey stated that last Saturday,
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: April sixth, at about nine pm, he drove up to
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: the alley behind Walker's house and noticed that two white
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: males no description sitting in a nineteen sixty three Ford
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: dark purple or brown parked at the rear of Walker's house.
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: Mister Surrey also stated that he observed these two men
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: get out of the car and walk around Walker's house.
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: Walker did not seem to be disturbed about the incident.
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: Mister Surrey, it was obvious that there were no license
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: plate on said it was obvious there was no license
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: plates on the nineteen sixty three ford, So that is
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: day of or hours of what Surrey said happened. Continuing
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: contacted Walker in the state through interviews this is the
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: next day now through interviews with the employees who are
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: all voluntary workers at this location. General Walker stays in
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: this house at night alone. Yeah.
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: Investigation reveals that an unknown assailant in all likelihood fired
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: the shot from the alley directly north of the rear
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: part of the house. Investigating officers found a very small
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: chipped edge at the top portion of the rear fence.
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: The small chip portion indicated that something had been laid
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: on this board very recently. As this was a fresh
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: chip and lining with the path of the bullet, it
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: would indicate that the shot was fired from just below
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: the chip portion of the fence. The bullet struck the
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: window frame near the center looking device. I think that
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: needs window. From the point where the bullet at the
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: window frame to the point where it struck the wall,
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: it is a downward trajectory. Backyard is an upgrade to
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: the alley. The fence in the rear of the house
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: at the alley is a lattice type fence made out
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: of wood approximately one time six with approximately eight inch
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: open spots. It is the investigating officer's opinion that the
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: shot was fired from just below this top edge of
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: the fence. The walker home is adjained by a parking
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: lot of a church to the east. The alley runs into.
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: Joe, did you say eight inch open spots?
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: Eight inch open spots?
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: So that means I think the pickets of the fence
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: were eight inches apart.
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, let me go a little further here, see if
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: I could get what they're talking about here. I think
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: what they're doing here, rob is they're measuring Z to this.
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: Oh okay, I was gonna say I thought the pants
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: themselves inches the part. I was like, that's a pretty
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: shitty fin.
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I think they said six by one six inches nothing,
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: there's anything wrong with that by by one. I don't know,
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: but I think what they're talking about the slots are
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: or eight inches here. I think that's what they're referring to.
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: It is written. Uh, now, you distracted me. The alley then.
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: Alley runs into the real.
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: The alley runs into the rear part of the part. Sorry.
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: The alley then takes up a northerly direction into Newman Street.
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: The witness, Kirk Coleman, lived at the northeast corner of
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: the Walker property, just across the alley and directly across
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: from North and the church parking lot. So this person
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: has not been contacted by us as he is a schoolboy,
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: but will be contacted at a later time as he
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: could furnish valuable information from which he observed the incident.
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: An interview with the volunteer workers revealed that they had
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: not received no prank calls or letters preceding the incident.
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: An interview with mister Surrey reveals that two white men
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: we already went over that the persons were noticed getting
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: out of the car, walking up to the property line
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: and smoking the place over where if they were smoking
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: or casing maybe that was a word for casing the place.
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: Mister Surrey became suspicious at these subjects and followed the
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: car away and couldn't get a license number. He states
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: that there was no license plate which we went over.
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: A thorough search of the premise revealed no spent cartridges,
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: no tracks or other evidence of value. The neighbor's dog
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: to the west of the Walker property is a fanatical barker,
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: but on this incident did not make a sound and
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: Rob I have a funny FBI document with the dog's
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: owner saying, well, they had to have drugged the dog.
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: Obviously, somebody through that dog state state with the like
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: in the movie Next Friday when they.
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's what she's saying. It's funny. We'll get there,
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: I promise. General Walker recently accepted the position of military
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: editor for a monthly magazine, The American Mercery Mercury, and
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: has traveled extensively since. It has assumed the suspects had
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: a minimum of knowledge concerning the complainants' activities. From where
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: the complainant was and from where the shot was fired,
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: the distance is approximately thirty five to thirty thirty five
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: to forty yards with a clear view as there were
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: no window shades. Now back to essentially the only witness
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: this white male fourteen, Kirk Coleman of four three three
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: eight Newton, stated that he was in the back room
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: when he heard a noise. He thought it was a blowout.
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: The boy who was with him, Ronald Andreas, white male nineteen,
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: also said it was a gunshot. Kirk stated that he
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: ran out the back and climbed the back fence and
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: saw a man getting out into a nineteen forty nine
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: or fifty Ford lieutenant green orutenant oh light green or
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: light blue and getting in.
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: Well, we'll see what he says here what you already
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: said he was getting out, but I think that's wrong.
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: He climbed the back fence and saw a man getting
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: into a nineteen forty nine or fifty Ford light green light.
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: You may have said that wrong, Okay.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: Thank you for clarifying. Yes, so he saw him, He
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: saw him getting into the car into this this Ford.
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: This was on the parking lot of the church next
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: to General Walker's home. Also, I also on further down
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: the parking lot to the church next to General Walker's
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: home was another car, unknown maker model, and a man
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: was in it. He had the dome light on and
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: Kirk could see him bend over the front seat as
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: if he was putting something into the back floorboard. The
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: only description Kirk could give on this car was the
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: fact that it was black with a white stripe. The
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: other boy, Ronald did give did not climb the fence,
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: so he did not see this. Sorry, these lines are
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: hard to read. The only description the boy could give
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: on the person who got into the ford was that
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: he was middle size and had long black hair. There
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: were several other cars in the parking lot because some
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: function was in process at the church. The church has
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: lights for the parking lot, but Kirk stated that these
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: lights were not on. The person that was in the
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: ford took off in a hurry, but the person in
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: the other car did not seem to be in a hurry.
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: So the two people he sees goes into two different cars.
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: One takes off quickly, the other does see three people
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: altogether or just two.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: Apparently he's saying they're getting into two different cars.
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: Right, two people in one car and one person in
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: another car. Yeah?
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: Uh three people, yeah, three people turtle two cars. Yeah,
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: because the person that's sitting there was separate.
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: Okay, thank you.
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: This boy made me promise that he would not get
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: in the newspapers. His name is already in the newspaper,
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: and he said he is scared to death. The assassin
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: will attempt to do away with him.
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: So I'm multiple scared, sir, Yeah, which.
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: Makes me think, Rob. This date of this document is
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: the eleventh, right the day after How the hell was
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: he in the paper? Already. That's interesting. Maybe some some
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: boy witnessed it.
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: Uh, pres didn't fuck around back then, man, they put
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: his news news.
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: That's true.
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: Somebody tried to kill a major general in Dallas missed.
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: He also stated that the part in the newspaper article
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: about him saying that several people were in the ford
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: was wrong. This officer had a squad to come out
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: to assure the boy and his family that they would
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: check the house for them. We observed a plane car
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: with a uniform officer as he kept circling the parking
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: lot in General Walker's home with his lights out. This
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: made Kirk feel a little better. This office remains pending
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: on this incident. So all right, that's the day of
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: and the day after. This is two days after on
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: the twelfth, which would have been that Friday. I guess
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: investigating officers interviewed Missus Julian Nett. Miss next dated that
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: the subject, and she's going to talk about someone we
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: talked about a couple of weeks on the show Rob
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: two weeks ago. I think Bill Duff, William Duff, who
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: was actually the only suspect that the DPD investigated. And
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: I'll reget that in a second. But missus Net, who
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: was General Walker's kind of secretary, and Surrey initially suspected
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: Duff because he had recently been kicked out of the house,
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: so that's where their kind of first suspicions went. Missus
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: Neck gave investigating officers information that Duff had become engaged
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: to Miss Whitley. Oh, that's the neighbor down the street's daughter,
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: and he'd been borrowing money from her mother. Duff gave
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: his full name to Miss Whitley as William McEwan, and
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: Miss Next stated that doctor Ruth Jackson, who is next
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: door to the General, has a dog that barks at
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: everybody and everything. The night of this offense occurred, doctor
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: Jackson's dog did not bark at suspects. Investigating officers received
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: further information from Miss Net that doctor Jackson's dog was
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: very sick yesterday and is also very sick today. Reason
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: for this illness is unknown at this time. So that
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: is April tenth, eleventh, and twelfth, nineteen sixty three. Right, Okay,
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: all this kind of Walker hooplah kind of calms down
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: a little bit. Now they do end up let me
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: just go to this here. Actually, they do end up
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: arresting this gentleman, mister William McEwan duff in on June
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: twelfth or in June of sixty three, and on June twelfth,
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: sixty three ended up giving him a polygraph. And this
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: is what I read a couple of weeks ago. I'm
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: just going to go through it really quickly. Do you
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: have a grudge with General Walker? No? Did you shoot
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: at General Walker? No? Do you remember who you were
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: with at the night? No, you have any inform about
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: the activity of General Walker or the layout of the
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: house except the two men from Oklahoma? And no, have
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: you owned or had in your possession a high pair
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: of rifle since you've been to Dallas. No? Do you
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: know who shot at Walker? No. Lieutenant Cunningham, who set
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: this appointment up, was the investigating officer taking everything into consideration.
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: It was the opinion of this examiner that mister duff
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: was truthful of all questions except question number three. Do
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: what a laugh of time? Didn't know exactly who he
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: was with that night, So that's what we went over.
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: So after June, you know, like a like you know,
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: almost two months, two months after this happened, when they
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: polygraph Duff, the Walker thing dies out, we don't hear
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: from it again until the Walker letter is found in
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: a cookbook.
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: Mm hmmm.
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: You play sport in Ruth Payne's.
• 28:09
  Speaker 4: Home, in Ruth Payne's garage.
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: Yes, and the note was undated. Did not mention General
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: Walker or any reason why Oswald might find himself under arrest.
• 28:24
  Speaker 4: So there's written Russian.
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: It was. I'm going to show it right now. It
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: was written in Russian, but thankfully I have the translation
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: as they did the warrant commissions.
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: You think Lee Harvey Oswald was competent enough to write
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: an entire letter in Russian?
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: I think so? Yeah?
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: Do you think so?
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: I think so? Hm uh, because he he had been
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: writing Russian uh to the embassy's uh. I think he's
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: corresponding with friends in Russia, you know, Titevitz. I think
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: he could.
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: He could speak Russian. I don't know about writing it.
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: Well, it's it's a good thing to ponder, but this
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: is it.
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: And he wrote the Russian embassy in English.
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: He might have I'm not one hundred percent.
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: Sure on that, but I think given his given his
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: language skills, we've seen Ua, we've seen his English writing,
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: and it ain't very good. Yeah, I just don't. I
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: highly doubt he could write an entire letter like this
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: and surrellic. But I could be wrong.
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not one hundred percent. But but let's see
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: what this letter says. So but but first, of course,
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: Ruth Payne's home had been searched thoroughly on the afternoon
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: of the assassination and again the following day. And of
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: course the inventory of items discovered is forty nine pages long,
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: but does not mention this note. FBI's handwriting expert considered
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: that the note was in Oswald's handwriting, according to his
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: warrant Commission Hearing, one of only three experts who were
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: consulted by the HSCA, considered the note to be authentic,
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: and the bureau's fingerprint expert found seven sets of fingerprints
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: on the note. And of course that could be after
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: but there's a document that's linked to that as well,
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: and none of them are as. It doesn't say, actually,
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: this is what the letter says number one. So this
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: is like a list of things for Marina to do.
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: This makes sure JUNI had new shoes.
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: I think that was Oh, that was like when he
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: was in custody. I think this is the key to
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: the mailbox, which is located in the main post office
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: and the City of irv Street, the same street where
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: the drug store in which you are always weighted as located.
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: You'll find the mailbox in the post office, which is
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: located four blocks from the drug store. Blah blah blah.
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: Send the information as to what has happened to me
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: to the embassy, and include newspaper clippings should there be
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: anything about me in the newspapers. I believe that the
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: embassy will come quickly to your assistance on learning everything.
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: I paid the house rent on the second so you
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: don't have to worry about it. Recently. I also paid
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: the water and gas bill. The money from work will
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: possibly be coming. The money will be sent to our
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: post office box. Go to the bank and cash the check.
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: Going on to the second page, you could either throw
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: out or give my clothing away. Do these? Do not
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: keep these? However, I prefer that you hold onto my
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: personal papers military civil. Certain of my documents are in
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: the small blue valaisee. The address book can be found
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: on my table and the study should you need same.
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: We have friends here. The Red Cross will also help you.
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: I left you as much money as I could sixty
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: bucks on the second of the month. You and the
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: baby June can live for another two months using ten
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: dollars per week if I am alive and taken prisoner.
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: The city jail at the end of the bridge through
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: which we have always passed on going through this city
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: is located there. So I'm not quite sure what to
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: make of the us. In some ways, I almost think
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: because he had lost his job at Jagger Styles cho
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: Vaults a couple of days before the Walker shooting or
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: Stovevall stovefall. What would I do without you?
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: You juned it up pretty good there, cho Vats.
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: It could almost sound like a breakup letter more than
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: AH or some type of of course, it doesn't specify
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: Walker what he's going to do anything, but it it
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: sounds like there's more going on than we realize, Like
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: it might not just be related to the shooting.
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: I don't know. I believe too, Joe now is the
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: letter dated?
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: The letter is undated?
• 33:57
  Speaker 4: Okay, So here's an alternate theory from an alternate universe,
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: from a very non reliable witness.
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: Right give it to me.
• 34:12
  Speaker 4: Uh. There is a guy named Ron Lewis who claimed
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: and he wrote a book, and I believe he was
• 34:24
  Speaker 4: in He was on one of those early nineties documentaries
• 34:27
  Speaker 4: with James Earl Jones, and he claimed to be Oswald's
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: friend in New Orleans and Dallas, or he claimed to
• 34:39
  Speaker 4: at least be definitely be his friend in New Orleans,
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: and he said that Oswald told him that he was
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: going to possibly go shoot Was it wasn't Hughey, law,
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: I don't think, because I think Huey Longan died at
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: that point, right, I believe? So, yeah, let me look
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: at the Yeah, he died in nineteen thirty five.
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: Wasn't him?
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: But he had children? Right? Was it Russell Long? Yes? Okay,
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: So I believe Ron Lewis claimed that Oswald told him
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: that he was going to go shoot Russell Long for
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: some reason. He was a senator from Louisiana from nineteen
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: forty eight until nineteen eighty seven.
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: Right, that's of course who Jim Garrison famously had that
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: conversation with on the airplane right about the wars in
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: the movie.
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and a side note, born in Shreveport in nineteen eighteen.
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: So you also have Oswald doing many questionable things, like
• 36:27
  Speaker 4: you know, I don't know I don't know that. Like
• 36:31
  Speaker 4: you said, it's it's hard to really nail down what's
• 36:34
  Speaker 4: this letter at. It even means it'd be a lot
• 36:38
  Speaker 4: better if it was dated, because then we can maybe
• 36:42
  Speaker 4: attribute it to a certain point in his life. But
• 36:45
  Speaker 4: undated is no bueno.
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: And the circumstances of which has found Right, if it's
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: found in a book when they're searching the pains on
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: say November twenty third.
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: Was it Ruth Payne's cookbook or was it Marina's cookbook?
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: I don't think Marie. I don't think Marina had a cookbook.
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure it was Ruth's, but I that is
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: my guess.
• 37:16
  Speaker 4: So if it was, it was if it was found
• 37:18
  Speaker 4: in Ma Ruth Payne's cookbook, Okay, then this letter, if
• 37:24
  Speaker 4: it's attributed to the Walker shooting, right, would have had
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: to go with Marina to New Orleans, right, because they
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: left I think it was April twenty fourth, you know,
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: two weeks after the Walker shooting to go back to
• 37:42
  Speaker 4: New Orleans, Right they left Dallas?
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, about two weeks after.
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And she wasn't living with Ruth Paine at this time.
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: They had met, they were friends, but I doubt Marina
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: would have given her this letter and said, here, hide
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: this from me. So logically, if you're following my path
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: of logic here, this letter would have been written to
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: Marina in Dallas in April of nineteen sixty three. Lee
• 38:12
  Speaker 4: comes home, So the letter doesn't really mean much at
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: that point. So it travels back to New Orleans with them,
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: and then it travels back to Dallas and ends up
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: in a cookbook in Ruth Payne's house. Whether or not
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: it's Ruth Payne's cookbook or Marine's cookbook.
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: Who Ruth bought it for Marina is what I just read.
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: When I believe it was in December. It doesn't say when.
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: I don't know, it could have been earlier. But you're right,
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: they weren't living together.
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: So and then hiding the letter in December makes no
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: sense because she freely had no problem with them tying
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: the walker shooting Lee Oswald right like, she didn't deny it.
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: She's like, oh, yeah, he probably did that. In fact,
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: here's this letter.
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: Is this letter true, Marina? Yes, you see what I'm saying.
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: I do. I mean, there's a whole ton of issues
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: with it being undated and and who knows, like I'm
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: sure Marina could have written this in Lee's hand if
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: she wanted to.
• 39:35
  Speaker 4: Or you know who else knew Russian Ruth Payne.
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: Oh that's what I just said.
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: No, you said Marina, Oh, I said Ruth.
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: Could have wrote this in Lee's hand, Lee's handwriting. Yeah, so.
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I just don't know how much we can attribute
• 40:03
  Speaker 4: this letter to the Walker shooting, is my point.
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: I agree. I don't think we could attribute much at
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: all on dated especially if if if one of if
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: the HCA handwriting experts were in agreement. Uh, it's it's
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: a stretch to attribute this to the Walker shooting, right.
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, mm hmm.
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: So okay, so where we were at the Walker letter,
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: So of course that starts off a whole hoop law
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: of documents going back and forth. Bring us back up here.
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: You have h Lieutenant Cunningham, who who was in charge
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: of the Doff investigation, saying that no suspects. This is
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: December seventh, about about a week after the Walker shooting.
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: A little Less stated that no suspects have been developed
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: in the Walker shooting incident, which occurred allegedly nine pm
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: April tenth sixty three.
• 41:23
  Speaker 4: Did you just say it was a win.
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: This is December seventh.
• 41:28
  Speaker 4: Okay, that's a lot of months passed the Walker shooting.
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: Oh I'm saying the Walker letter found. Oh okay, I'm sorry.
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: William Duff was the only possible suspect we looked into
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: and states that he had never heard Lee Harveyalesmall's name,
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: blah blah blah. So there's no you know, they never
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: came up with any suspect pasted Duff and and they
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: ended up clearing him based on the polygraph. So this,
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: of course was Douf, as I showed you. So now
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: let me, handsome fellow, Yeah right, thick thick neck as
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: I think.
• 42:10
  Speaker 4: What you what?
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 42:12
  Speaker 5: What you say, Joe, I've heard yes, mm hmm yeah.
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: Uh So let's hear before before I go into some
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: of the war commissioned documents, let's hear what George de
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: Moore and Shield and his wife Jeanne had to say
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: about this Jeane Gne and this. Hopefully this person doesn't
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: ding us. Oh never mind, that's us.
• 42:43
  Speaker 4: He might I heard. He's an asshole, no comment.
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: H Let me know if you can hear this, all right, sir.
• 42:52
  Speaker 6: Patients with Marina, which had improved lately. Oh yeah, about June,
• 42:59
  Speaker 6: who was reading along nicely and was growing. We also spoke,
• 43:04
  Speaker 6: as I remember, of the unfortunate tries of the ultra
• 43:07
  Speaker 6: conservative in our opinion racist movement in the South especially,
• 43:13
  Speaker 6: and agreed that it was a dangerous phenomenon for all
• 43:17
  Speaker 6: freedom loving people.
• 43:20
  Speaker 4: You arrested.
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: It's when he finished this paragraph, I want to start
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: when we explain everything. No, no, I just want to
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: tell what we did with Marina and have a founder rifle.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: And then my remark.
• 43:36
  Speaker 7: Exactly, you want to talk now you want.
• 43:41
  Speaker 6: To Yes, I think the Ghan comes in at the
• 43:44
  Speaker 6: right time.
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: Now, that's.
• 43:48
  Speaker 7: So you are in the Osa that evening date. Yes,
• 43:52
  Speaker 7: you went Judgment to the balcony and talked with him easter.
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: Evening again that Sunday before tax Day, the Wednesday after
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: or Sunday after the Walker shooting on Wednesday, and what
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: did you do, Judgment?
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: And Marina was very proud of her new apartment, and
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: he was showing me around.
• 44:15
  Speaker 4: I like, I liked how Oatman's right there. Like Jean
• 44:18
  Speaker 4: started to talk and chime in. He was like, George,
• 44:22
  Speaker 4: is it okay she talks now? Or should she shut
• 44:25
  Speaker 4: the fuck up and let you continue and.
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: He goes, no, I think this is a good time
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: for a geen to come in.
• 44:31
  Speaker 4: Yes, I love Yeah.
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: And the new apartment they're talking about is the Neely
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: Street apartment, which Marina was very happy about moving into.
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: Very nice.
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: Yes, her bedroom, the living room. And finally we came
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: in to a large closet and we opened the door
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: and with Ald it it was walking closets sort of.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: Lots of clothes was hanging there, and in the right
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: of it, on the floor was standing a rifle leaning
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: on a wall in the cloth. It was not hidden,
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: it was it was not hidden at all, was standing
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: right in front of everything. And to meet it looked
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: kind of funny because there was something dangling in the
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: middle of it. Later on I found out it was
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: still the scopic side. I never did see to the
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: scopic side before, so I didn't know what it was.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: Did you ask, Well, when I saw the rifle, my
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: first question was, what's this thing doing here?
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: What did she say?
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: Said, well, do you bought it? Imagine that how poor
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: we are and how much we need the money for June.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: All of a sudden he buys this rifle. Sonatually, my
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: question was what the Earth. Does he need the rifle? Oh,
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: he just likes to shoot, to shoot. Where the narth
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: can he shoot it? Oh? He just likes ski shooting.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: Where can he go skid shooting? He has no time,
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: he works all the time. So then she said, well,
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: he shoots that the lives in the park when we
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: take Junia and Sundays, which didn't make too much sense.
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: But at the same time I could understand that because.
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: He shot at leaves in the park when they took
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: June there allegedly never heard that one before.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: Shoot at leaves myself because I like target shooting and
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: I never harm or kill anything, but I find a
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: man's pleasure in target shooting. So to me, it was
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: perfectly excusable and plausible. So then by this time George
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: and Lee moved to the living room sitting on a
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: soft and sitting and their drinks, and we're walking in
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: with marine on the first thing I talked to George, George,
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: do you know what they have in that closet? He said,
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: what said A rifle? He said, what a rifle? He said, yes,
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: a rifle. That's did you take, by any chance a
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: patch shot at walker and start last? Yes, George did
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: you take a punch shot at General Walker. Ha ha
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: ha ha started laughing his head off now here. The
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: reactions were it was hard to judge for us, because
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: we thought it was very funny, and of course it
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: was a stupid joke. But just three or four days
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: before that, they were attempt and General Walker's life in Dallas,
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: in the very very neighborhood closed where we were living
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: in Turtle Creek, So of course we were We thought
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: it was a tremendous joke, and we sort of all
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: left a little bit and then had another drink, and
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: then we departed for home, and Marina cut me a
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: tremendous bouquet of roses, and everything was fine.
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: This was Excuse me.
• 47:46
  Speaker 7: Do you recall the facial expression of Lee Harvey also
• 47:52
  Speaker 7: when you said that, or did it get.
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: Lost in the joke?
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: Well, it got lost in a joke overall, But I
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: believe that George noticed some change in his faces, which
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: he recalled later to me. Yes, yes, so then you it.
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: As far as I was concerned, it was just perfectly
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: funny and stupid joke. And this was the last time
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: we saw Oswalds. From then on, we just had only
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: one card from them from New Orleans, which we misplaced
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: because we were just about to move out.
• 48:24
  Speaker 7: So about that evening, you have anything else about that?
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: Let a second act, something to let's George.
• 48:35
  Speaker 4: Yes, yes, okay, thank you again.
• 48:38
  Speaker 6: The question is what effect did you remark have on
• 48:41
  Speaker 6: Lee Harvey Osswold? And I cannot answer this question with precision.
• 48:45
  Speaker 6: As much as I strained my memory, I think, but
• 48:48
  Speaker 6: I cannot vouch for it. Possibly I was influenced by
• 48:52
  Speaker 6: the later events that Lee mumbled something unintelligibly and was embarrassed.
• 48:59
  Speaker 6: Marina also shocked, but naturally neither my wife nor I
• 49:05
  Speaker 6: were shocked. My wife laughed and said, what a foolish idea,
• 49:09
  Speaker 6: and I just laughed uproarssly like a damn fool at
• 49:13
  Speaker 6: the poor joke, which at the time seemed funny only
• 49:17
  Speaker 6: to me. Only later did I realize as stunning this
• 49:22
  Speaker 6: remark must have been to Lee and shocking to Marina.
• 49:26
  Speaker 6: She testified later that she knew Lee shot at General Walker,
• 49:31
  Speaker 6: and my remark indicated to her that I knew that
• 49:35
  Speaker 6: he did. I do not blame General Walker, whom I
• 49:39
  Speaker 6: had never met, for being suspicious of me later and
• 49:44
  Speaker 6: calling me a dangerous leftist. The remark was unkind and
• 49:48
  Speaker 6: uncalled for, and as a joke, it was in a
• 49:51
  Speaker 6: bad taste, as General's life was at stake. Supposedly the
• 49:56
  Speaker 6: bullet had missed him narrowly. There are other Yes, there
• 50:03
  Speaker 6: are other things which indicated to me later that possibly
• 50:06
  Speaker 6: Lee might have shot a General Walker. Aside from Marina's opinion,
• 50:12
  Speaker 6: a friend of mine, who had known Nazi Germany, had
• 50:15
  Speaker 6: Medley some months before this Easter of nineteen sixty three,
• 50:19
  Speaker 6: had a talk with him and told.
• 50:21
  Speaker 4: Him you can identify the friend.
• 50:23
  Speaker 6: No, I don't remember his name. The most dangerous man
• 50:26
  Speaker 6: in the United States is General Walker.
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: Lee.
• 50:30
  Speaker 6: Maybe he may be the head of an American fascism someday,
• 50:36
  Speaker 6: So that might have influenced Lee. Another indication is the
• 50:41
  Speaker 6: inscription on Lee's picture, which we received posthumously. But I
• 50:47
  Speaker 6: shall write about it later.
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: What I have to say, hunter of fascists? Ha ha.
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: Of course he is referring to which was written on
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: the back of one of the backyard photos. So I
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: don't know, man, there's only a minute or two more
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: of this, but it's it's all over the place.
• 51:11
  Speaker 6: Say that this remark of mine really influenced our lives
• 51:18
  Speaker 6: to a tremendous extent, because later on we heard from
• 51:22
  Speaker 6: mister Albertjener, counsel of the Warrant Committee, that Marina's testimonies
• 51:27
  Speaker 6: were so contradictory and she had to be called back
• 51:32
  Speaker 6: and repeat on the oath her deposition dealing with these
• 51:36
  Speaker 6: most important matters. She actually has said that I as
• 51:43
  Speaker 6: the door was opened to the apartment, before even seeing
• 51:46
  Speaker 6: the rifle, she had said, Lee, why did you miss
• 51:51
  Speaker 6: him so naturally? That might have indicated to her that
• 51:58
  Speaker 6: I knew and I was in some kind of cahoots
• 52:01
  Speaker 6: with Lee.
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: Did you say that?
• 52:06
  Speaker 6: No, of course I didn't say that, So she must
• 52:10
  Speaker 6: have been when he made the deposition, under enormous pressure,
• 52:13
  Speaker 6: frightened for herself and her children, bewildered and flabbergasted. What
• 52:18
  Speaker 6: caused her to contradict herself, we do not know, but
• 52:22
  Speaker 6: only guess that whatever it was is, it created a
• 52:25
  Speaker 6: sinister aura around me, George.
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: From what we understand later that Marina actually did believe
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: that we knew somehow about this incident, and she actually
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: lived in fear for days and days, just waiting that
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: we are going to sort of betray them and tell
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: police about it that maybe was the reasons. When we
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: came to the house, the house was dark, and before
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: the door was opened, Lee asked who it was. Maybe
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: that was the explanation of their early retirement to bed
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: and shutting the lights in the house.
• 53:06
  Speaker 7: You think they were afraid that he had been discovered
• 53:11
  Speaker 7: as having showed the general Walker.
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: She actually did believe that we somehow knew it, and
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: she was afraid that we got to police and tell them.
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: And later on we found out about that five years
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: later when we read it and report her the position
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: I report. We had no idea about.
• 53:30
  Speaker 6: That, And later on, of course, we saw in the
• 53:33
  Speaker 6: Warren report and the counselor the Warren Committee told us
• 53:36
  Speaker 6: that she said she said that we knew that Lee
• 53:40
  Speaker 6: had shot the General Walker. But later in the same
• 53:43
  Speaker 6: Warren report she contradicted herself and said that George probably
• 53:48
  Speaker 6: just guessed that Lee had shot a general Walker because
• 53:51
  Speaker 6: he was an intuitive person. That I was an intuitive
• 53:54
  Speaker 6: person and knew Lee very well, and therefore I made
• 53:58
  Speaker 6: a guest which had that target. Anyway, whatever it was,
• 54:02
  Speaker 6: we'll talk about it later. But that particular evening of
• 54:06
  Speaker 6: eastern nineteen sixty three we finished that evening in the
• 54:10
  Speaker 6: most amiable manner. We walked in the little garden behind
• 54:15
  Speaker 6: the house. There were roses in bloom. Lee and Marina
• 54:20
  Speaker 6: caught a gorgeous bouquet of roses from his home in
• 54:23
  Speaker 6: appreciation for the pink rabbit brought for their child.
• 54:28
  Speaker 7: And probably they were very relieved that.
• 54:32
  Speaker 4: Yes, they were betrayed.
• 54:34
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yes, naturally looking backwards that we don't know their reactions,
• 54:38
  Speaker 6: but for us it was just a friendly visit. We
• 54:41
  Speaker 6: kissed the baby June.
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: All right, so a lot unpacked there. He talks about
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: Marina's contradicting statements, which on they get to in about
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: one minute. But what are your thoughts on what mister
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: George du Mornshield and his wife to say about the
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: walker incident.
• 55:03
  Speaker 4: Well, the chat thinks, Uh, it sounded a little scripted,
• 55:08
  Speaker 4: and if you listen really closely, you can almost hear
• 55:11
  Speaker 4: papers shuffling.
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: He was reading. He was reading.
• 55:15
  Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, I think I think Jean Jean Jeen was two. Uh,
• 55:26
  Speaker 4: I don't know, Like I said, this is part of
• 55:28
  Speaker 4: a long ass interview. It was almost four hours long,
• 55:32
  Speaker 4: right more yeah, yeah, or more maybe six four?
• 55:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this is four and a half.
• 55:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a long one, and there's a lot of
• 55:44
  Speaker 4: information in there, and pretty sure most of it is
• 55:50
  Speaker 4: definitely scripted, you know, so they could well, I don't know,
• 55:56
  Speaker 4: word for word, I don't know, but maybe definitely bullet points,
• 55:59
  Speaker 4: out line type of thing. Yeah, something to just help
• 56:04
  Speaker 4: them remember things, because like you heard the more and
• 56:07
  Speaker 4: Shields say. You know, He's like, you know, if I'm
• 56:10
  Speaker 4: trusting my memory, you know, you know, it's so long ago.
• 56:14
  Speaker 4: I don't want them to say that he did or
• 56:16
  Speaker 4: he didn't, but maybe events later changed my memory, right,
• 56:25
  Speaker 4: I don't know what it means. I mean, we know
• 56:28
  Speaker 4: Oswald allegedly supposedly had ordered the rifle and received it
• 56:35
  Speaker 4: in March of nineteen sixty three, which was literally like
• 56:40
  Speaker 4: a month before h this little Easter get together. Right,
• 56:46
  Speaker 4: of course, there's problems with ordering the rifle and all that,
• 56:49
  Speaker 4: which we've done on other shows. But here we have
• 56:54
  Speaker 4: two eyewitnesses, not just one. I mean, they are a
• 56:57
  Speaker 4: husband and wife, but they really don't have a dog
• 57:02
  Speaker 4: in the fight, and they're saying that there was a
• 57:05
  Speaker 4: rifle in the Oswaltz closet and jokingly, you know, he's like, huh, yeah,
• 57:12
  Speaker 4: you weren't that idiot that took a pot shot at
• 57:14
  Speaker 4: General Walker and miss were you ha, you know, and
• 57:21
  Speaker 4: you know the fact that they both turned kind of
• 57:22
  Speaker 4: mortified and instead of being like yeah, right, George, you
• 57:26
  Speaker 4: know what what are you doing here? You know, they
• 57:29
  Speaker 4: didn't have an immediate like quick witty comeback right, m Yeah,
• 57:36
  Speaker 4: it's a little sketchy, but again, it doesn't prove anything
• 57:39
  Speaker 4: one way or the other. He didn't say yes, although
• 57:47
  Speaker 4: he supposedly. Oswald supposedly told Marina later that, you know,
• 57:56
  Speaker 4: somebody at that party had pointed out that Jenner Walker
• 58:00
  Speaker 4: was a huge fascist, right, and you know, well if
• 58:06
  Speaker 4: somebody he made the comment, if somebody would have killed Hitler,
• 58:10
  Speaker 4: you know, before he did what he did, it would
• 58:11
  Speaker 4: have been a great service to humanity. So maybe in
• 58:16
  Speaker 4: somewhere in his twisted brain he thought, well, somebody kills Walker,
• 58:20
  Speaker 4: you know, before he gets into some kind of power
• 58:23
  Speaker 4: and can really do harm. He'd take him out and
• 58:27
  Speaker 4: he'd be doing the world a favor type of thing.
• 58:29
  Speaker 4: I don't know. Yeah, And the other damning thing is
• 58:34
  Speaker 4: it's not just this because after the assassination, of course,
• 58:43
  Speaker 4: they found pictures in Ruth Payne's garage showing pictures of
• 58:50
  Speaker 4: the back of General Walker's house, not the front, the
• 58:55
  Speaker 4: back and the little alley back there, which doesn't look
• 59:02
  Speaker 4: good if they're authentic, and I don't think they could
• 59:06
  Speaker 4: date the photos. If they could, that'd be great, but
• 59:11
  Speaker 4: I don't think they ever did. My guess is he
• 59:14
  Speaker 4: took them and developed him while he's still working at
• 59:16
  Speaker 4: Dagger's child's stowball, right, my guess if he took them,
• 59:24
  Speaker 4: if they weren't planted in pain his garage. But we'll
• 59:27
  Speaker 4: get more into that here in a.
• 59:28
  Speaker 3: Minute, right, yeah, and this is I have it here,
• 59:36
  Speaker 3: oh somewhere here. What do you have, Joe, the picture
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: that you just referred to, I have.
• 59:43
  Speaker 5: It handy here, Okay, you can you can throw out
• 59:46
  Speaker 5: them boom right, yes, yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: And I mean yeah, pictures of Walker's house was found
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 3: in Lee's possessions. Whether they're planted there or not, I
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: have no idea, but that's what the evidence report says,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: so we kind of got to take it at face value.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: I think this was the other one, Rob.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 4: Yes, that's the other angle of the alley that kind
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 4: of runs behind Walker's house or resided or something.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, so let me show you and I want
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: to go back to the one, the one eyewitness right
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 3: to the shooting that we know for sure based on
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 3: all the reports, based on the day after this happened,
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: saw people leaving, right, we know. Yes, Let's see this
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: one is a right. So this is the place where
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 3: the nineteen fifty white or beige Ford was first observed
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: by Kirk Coleman, which is weird because it's a railroad tracks.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: But maybe it's he reserved it from there. I think
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: I'm reading from the horrible Warrant Commission exhibits description number
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: B here nineteen fifty three B is place where nineteen
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 3: fifty eight black over white two door Chevrolet first observed
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: by Coleman.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 4: So this will be the church parking lot.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes see. I couldn't find Actually
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: I think it's here. Uh yeah, here you go. See
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 3: this is the alley entrance into Mormon Church parking lot,
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: in which alley entrance is obscured from Coleman's vision due
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: to stockade fence around garage cans. I don't know what
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 3: they're talking about here, but you see this one A
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 3: here thing on the bottom left, yeah, uh, a place
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 3: unknown where unknown white male number one was first absolved
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 3: by observed by Kirk Coleman. Number two, I guess is
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 3: to the right of that. Hm. It's really the way
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 3: they they described this as extremely difficult to to try
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 3: to figure out.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 4: So see what the arrow over there on the on
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 4: the on the wooden fence is where Kirk Coleman.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 3: Was, Yeah, okay, yeah, you're right.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 4: Remember Kirk Coleman climbed up on the fence and looked
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 4: over it. The guy he was with was nineteen, obviously
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 4: would have been taller than a fourteen year old, did
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 4: not see what was going on back there because Kirk
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 4: was up on the fence watching her looking. His buddy
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 4: that was with him there was nineteen, didn't actually see
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 4: anything what was going on over the fence because Kirk
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 4: had climbed up on the fence there at that point right.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 3: He only had heard the shot with him.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 4: And so.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: This is the great evidence the Warrant Commission exhibits give
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: us here and oh man, so I'm sure going to
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 3: go into this, but they go into the h the
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 3: different custody on the bullet and stuff, and then they
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 3: go Wo's view and one of the only other ladies,
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: Missus bouve Be a Uve advised immediately after hearing what
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 3: she thought was a backfire, she could not recall having
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 3: heard anyone run from the scene or any car driving away.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 3: She further stated that on Sunday, previous to the shooting
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 3: April seventh, she noticed nothing unusual in her about the
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 3: Walker residence. That's I think referring to what Surrey had seen.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 4: Right, Well, he wasn't Walker wasn't intent right, right.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 3: But I think that's when Surrey said that he saw
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 3: that car with no license plate kind of casing the area.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 3: I think that's why they're asking that. Missus Bouvet advised
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: that her dog Toby became very sick on April eleventh
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: and twelve sixty three. She stated she was the opinion
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 3: that someone had given him something to quiet him, or
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 3: drug him or poison him. Because he did become sick
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 3: and vomited extensively on April eleventh and twelve sixty three,
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 3: she did not take him to the vet. She stated
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 3: she based her belief that a dog had been given
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 3: something because of the shooting incident and the dog's habit
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: of barking at anyone or anything in the alley area.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 3: She stated she had no other basis for this belief
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 3: or any proof whatsoever. And this was the only opinion
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 3: on her part. So she's a little conspiracy theorist, missus Bouvet.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 3: But it is weird that the dog would not bark
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 3: after a shot if it barked at everything.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 4: So you do kind of have or people creeping around.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you have to wonder what's going on there.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 3: So mister the fourteen year old kid, Kirk Coleman did
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 3: not testify to the Warrant Commission rob His FBI reports
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 3: were Commission Exhibit twenty nine fifty eight, and he did
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 3: give a statement, but I have not found any transcript
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 3: interview of him, and I can understand not wanting to
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 3: put a fourteen year old on the stand, but they
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 3: essentially buried his his account of seeing two people because
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 3: it didn't fit the narrative.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 4: Exact a mundo.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 3: So let's see. And it's funny because I came across
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 3: an HSCA, you know, some of those critics conferences where
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 3: you have like Mark Lane and Wiseberg and other people
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 3: just like talking with like prosecutors and stuff like that.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 3: They said they brought up the fact that like why
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 3: did why am such a the only person that allegedly
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 3: saw someone running from this crime. Why this guy wasn't
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 3: call to the Warren Commission, and why the statement was
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 3: just included and buried in the index. So I thought
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 3: that was pretty interesting that they were kind of on
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 3: this pretty early, and we've talked about Marinas and kind
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 3: of George talked about it, actually talked about her different testimonies,
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 3: conflicting testimonies, and I'm just going to forward this all
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 3: along here. Following his unsuccessful this is a Warren Commission
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 3: reports summary of her testimony following so this is from
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 3: the Warrant Commission, So keep that in mind. Following his
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 3: unsuccessful attack on Walker also returned home. He had left
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 3: a note for his wife telling her what to do
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 3: in the case he was apprehended. We were at that
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 3: as well as his notebook and pictures of himself holding
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 3: the rifle. I think they are kind of conflating those
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 3: two events there, right that the left pictures of himself
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 3: holding the rifle. She tested that She testified she was
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 3: agitated because she had found a note in Oswalt's room
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 3: where she had gone contrary to his instructions, after she
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 3: became worried about his absence. She indicated that she had
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 3: no advantage advanced knowledge of Oswalt's plans, that she became
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 3: quite angry when Oswald told her what he had done,
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 3: and that she made him promise to never repeat such
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 3: a performance. Right when they asked her, well, why didn't
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 3: he get rid of the book? After that? He forgot
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 3: about it. But apparently after he thought that what he
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 3: had written in this book might be proof against him,
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 3: he destroyed it. The book with the Walker plans. She
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 3: later gave the following testimony the Warren Commission. After he
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 3: brought the rifle home, Then he showed you this book, yes,
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 3: and you said it was a good idea to keep
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 3: this book. It was not a good idea to keep
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 3: this book. Yes, And then he burned the book. Yes.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 3: Do you ask him why he had not destroyed the
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 3: book before he actually went to shoot Walker? It never
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 3: came to me, of course. So here they're saying they
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 3: burned this book after But some of the pictures that
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 3: he had took were taken out of the book, and
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 3: that's where they found him in Oswalt's possessions. After everything
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 3: is a mess, man, So I just want to do
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 3: one more thing. Really quickly. And that is a private
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 3: correspondence between jay Lee Rankin and another warrant Commission attorney,
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 3: Norman Redlick. Norman Redlick writes to jay Lee Rankin, of
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 3: course the head lawyer, and they talk about James or Martin,
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 3: but he goes, I'm gonna skip that. Neither you or
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 3: I have any desire to smear smear the reputation of
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 3: any individual. We cannot ignore, however, that Marina Oswalt has
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 3: repeatedly lied to the Service, the FBI and this Commission
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 3: on matters which are a vital concern to the people
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 3: of this country in the world. As you know, I
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 3: was not in favor of placing on the record the
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 3: story of her actions in Washington. Wonder if those actions
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 3: could have been robbed. Then this is end of February,
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 3: so about a few weeks after that. But if a
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 3: witness who has had close association with Marina Oswalt is
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 3: prepared to offer certain insights into her character, including those
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 3: of the derogatory nature, I feel that the mandate of
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 3: the Commission's inquiry compels us to consider this testimony. So
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 3: he's saying, so you got to keep in mind, this
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 3: is end of February. Marina had already screwed James over
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 3: Martin in early February, and DC came back. They gotten
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 3: in a fight, or they had. Robert Oswald came he
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 3: took them. She then canceled his contract as his business manager.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 3: They later went into some legal stuff about it. But
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 3: he's saying that regardless, we have to it's the mandate
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 3: of this commission to consider this testimony, and that Marina
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 3: is a liar and that whatever she says can't be trusted,
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 3: and that came out during the h OFC eight time.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 3: So in terms of suspects to wrap it up, rob
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 3: we have Kirk Coleman who said what he said. We
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 3: have Robert Surrey, who close confidant of Walker heard to
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 3: take what he says at face value. You have Marina
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 3: Heart to take what he says at face value. And
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 3: you have George de Morenshield and his wife Hard to
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 3: take what they say at face value. So maybe you
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 3: can clear some of this up with the ballistics.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well, let's take a look at some of the
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 4: evidence and ballistics of this whole mess. Now. I showed
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 4: you guys the picture right that ended up being published
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 4: in the Warren Commission report. Notice how the license plate
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 4: is obscured or cut out of this white car right now,
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 4: this was deemed odd. Right. So on May thirteenth of
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 4: nineteen sixty four, there was a letter written from the
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 4: Warren Commission, specifically Richard Russell, John Cooper, Hill Boggs, Gerald Ford,
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 4: John mccloyd, and Allen Dulles. So these are the actual
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 4: commission members. This is not junior council. These are the
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 4: big swing in d's right of the Warren Commission, May thirteenth,
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 4: nineteen sixty four. They're writing Jay Edgar Hoova, Director of
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 4: the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Dear mister Hoova, we note
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 4: that one of the photographs purporting to depict the house
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 4: of Major General Edwin Walker, which photograph has been marked
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 4: as Commission Exhibit number five and as FBI Inventory number
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 4: three sixty nine, has been mutilated in such a way
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 4: to obliterate the license number of an automobile which appears
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 4: in the photograph. Right, take a look at it again.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 4: You see what you're talking about. Would you please advise
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 4: concerning the circumstances UNDERWI and from whom your bureau obtained
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 4: the above photograph and as to whether or not the
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 4: picture was so mutilated at the time it came into
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 4: your possession or into the possession of any other person
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 4: or organization from whom you may have obtained it. We
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 4: would also appreciate the automobile question identified. Since the photograph
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 4: reports to depict General Walker's house, the General could probably
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 4: identify the automobile himself as well as the house. And
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 4: I'm looking at a copy of this memorandum this letter,
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 4: and somebody hand wrote on here do not interview Walker
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 4: without me, And I can't see who it's signed by.
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 4: It says something, but I can't make out the initials.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 4: And this letter is checked off at the FBI as
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 4: being seen by mister Belmont who was high up, mister
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 4: Conrad Rosen and Sullivan at the FBI, as well as
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 4: Hoover Tolsten is not checked off, by the way. Now,
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 4: the interesting thing about this photograph is in nineteen sixty nine,
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 4: when Jesse Curry released his book Okay, he showed pictures
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 4: evidence pictures supposedly of a bunch of stuff taken from
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 4: Ruth Payne's garage, and some eagle eyed first generation researcher
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 4: noticed that in the initial Dallas Police photographs of the
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 4: cash of stuff found purportedly of Oswald's possessions showed a
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 4: copy of this photograph. And you know what, Joe, the
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 4: license plate was not obliterate in this photo. So here
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 4: it is, folks, severely uh zoomed in on. Now what
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 4: you're looking at. Here is a very zoomed in picture
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 4: of the picture in question of the back of General
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 4: Walker's house. Now there's some kind of an envelope or
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 4: something laying on top of the picture. But the important
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 4: part of the picture, which is the license plate of
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 4: the car, which you can clearly make out where the
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 4: car is here, is not cut.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 3: Out in the bottom right corner of the envelope.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 4: Yes, yep. I don't know if you can see a
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 4: little cursor there, but right there.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no big black spot.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's very different looking than this.
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 3: Okay, and Rob go back to that. You almost have
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 3: to wonder why that envelope is on top of that too,
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 3: in the way that it is.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know if I mean, Look, this was
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 4: just a pile of miscellaneous shit laid out and they
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 4: took a picture of it. This is a very zoomed
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 4: in picture. Uh, it's a very tight shot of a
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 4: very lot of shit, right, And maybe they put it
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 4: on there because the photo was curling up on them
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 4: or something. It appears to be curling up on the
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 4: right side there. Maybe they laid something on it so
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 4: it laid a little more flat. I don't know. Yeah,
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 4: it's who knows. But what I do know, just want Joe.
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 3: I just want to say it bike double B. He
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 3: has to head off early in the morning for football soccer.
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 3: Family got together, So thank you for your gifting. Five membership, sir.
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 3: Have a good night.
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 4: Yes, thank you, and enjoy the replay. Yes, don't forget
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 4: to hit that like button folks the bang. Here's what
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 4: I do know about this photo, Joe. So when it
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 4: went into Dallas Police custody that I e the evidence, right,
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 4: it didn't have a hole cut in it. When it
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 4: was sent to the FBI and they were photographing everything
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 4: and and you know, itemizing everything, it did have a
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 4: hole in it, because this is the way the FBI
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 4: turned it over as part of the Warrant Commission exhibits.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 4: So that tells me somebody at the Dallas Police either
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 4: at the request of General Walker, obliterated the license plate
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 4: of this car.
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 3: Before they turned it over to the FBI.
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 4: Yes, because they probably Okay, they found they found this,
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 4: and I I don't know if some eagle eyed investigator figured,
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 4: you know, said oh, that looks like at the General
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 4: Walker's house and took it over to him, you know,
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 4: and kind of showed it to him and he was like, oh, man,
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 4: you got to cut the ice plate out. I can't
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 4: have that out there, you know, something like that. I
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 4: don't know, or someone at the Dallas Police took it
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 4: upon themselves after running the plate and seeing who this
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 4: car may have belonged to, and it's probably best did
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 4: the license plate get obliterated so as not to pull
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 4: some random person into the mix. I don't know, all
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 4: I all I'm sure of is that the obliteration happened
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 4: in Dallas police custody. The FBI didn't do this, That's
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 4: what I'm saying. And when they got it, it wasn't obliterated.
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 4: And then the FBI didn't do it, which tells me,
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 4: you know, the Dallas police did this, and the Dallas
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 4: Police have a history of doing this. In fact, they
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 4: had even cut out Oswald out of the backyard photograph
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 4: and had like a blank in there, So they were
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 4: definitely manipulating the photos. Not to mention all of the
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 4: odd photos like the de Mornshield photo, the Roscoe White
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 4: pose you know that shows up later that weren't turned
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 4: over to the FBI or the Warrant Commission. So the
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 4: Dallas Police there was somebody in their photography department who
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 4: was not above board. They were keeping photos, they were
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 4: altering photos. I don't know what they were doing or
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 4: trying to prove, but it doesn't look good for whoever
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 4: was working in the photography department at the Dallas Police station,
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 4: and allegedly Roscoe White was that was his job. That's
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 4: what he was hired for, which is interesting, right with
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 4: the timing of the thing is what gets me. So
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 4: I don't know if if Roscoe, because I think Roscoe
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 4: was hired sometime in October.
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 3: Sixty three, very closely before.
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 4: But he had to undergo training. They just don't hire you,
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 4: put a uniform on you and throw you in the street,
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 4: you know what I mean. Like, even if you're a
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 4: photography expert for the Dallas Police, you still have to
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 4: undergo a lot of training, right, So I don't know
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 4: if he was ready to go within two months and
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 4: he had access or he just had access to these photos.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 4: I don't know. It's all a big mystery, but it's interesting, right.
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 4: So let's get into the ballistics a little bit. Okay, because,
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 4: as Joe pointed out in the initial report of the incident, right,
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 4: and I know you can't see it, it's very small here.
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 4: I wish I could make a bigger but underlined about
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 4: three quarters of the way down right in the dead center,
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 4: there's a term that is underlined. And what that term
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 4: says is steel jacketed bullet. Okay, Now, why is this significant? Well,
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 4: Man liquor carcano bullets are copper jacketed, right, And you
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 4: would think that a police officer who was investigating things
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 4: and who had examined the bullet could tell the difference
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 4: between a steel jacketed bullet and a copper jacketed bullet. Right,
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 4: So two totally different colors, right, copper and steel. Now,
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 4: the interesting thing is steel jacketed bullets really weren't a
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 4: big thing in the sixties. They had kind of gone
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 4: out of fashion or vogue or use. In the early
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 4: nineteen hundreds and nineteen tens, they really weren't being used
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 4: anymore because they were so heavy, right, because steel is
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 4: a heavy metal.
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 3: Right yeah, probably more expensive.
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 4: Too, yeah, and harder to work and all of that stuff.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 4: So eventually AMMO went to you know, brass or copper,
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 4: which is still in use today, right. But the main
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 4: size of bullets that were steel jacketed, we're thirty six bullets,
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 4: which has lended some people over the years to kind
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 4: of determine that the Walker bullet, being a steel jacketed bullet,
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 4: had to be a thirty out six bullet, right Now,
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 4: They never came out in this report and actually said
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 4: it was a thirty out six bullet. They just said
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 4: it was a steel jacketed bullet. Right. So let me
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 4: show you a picture of the Walker bullet. This is
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 4: allegedly the Walker bullet, okay, And this is from the
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 4: HSCA as you can see it as dated April fifteenth,
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 4: nineteen seventy eight CE five seventy three there exhibit F
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 4: two eight nine. Now, it is a black and white photo,
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 4: so obviously one cannot tell whether it is a steel
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 4: jacketed bullet or a copper jacketed bullet. But there are
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 4: color photos of this bullet which I will throw up
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 4: here now boom CE five seven three is on the
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 4: left and CE three nine nine. Of course the magic
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 4: bullet is on the right. Yeah, now here's what they're alleging.
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 4: Of course, inside the copper jacketed bullet is lead right.
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 4: That's the gray shit in the middle that you can't
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 4: see on three ninety nine because it is not deformed,
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 4: because it never was. Actually it never actually did what
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 4: it was attributed to do. But the bullet on the left,
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 4: the Walker bullet, alleged Walker bullet, and you'll I'll tell
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 4: you why I say a legend here in a minute.
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 4: Uh hit the wall above, Well, it actually hit the
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 4: window sill of Walker's window right here. The finger is pointing,
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 4: hence the title of the show fingering. So it hits
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 4: here right as zooms past, Walker's head goes in wrong picture, Shit,
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 4: where is it? Okay? It hits the wall behind Walker's
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 4: or above Walker's head goes through the wall. So this
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 4: is actually the exit of the Walker bullets. So this
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 4: is the other side of the wall. So if Walker
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 4: is sitting on the other side of the wall, okay,
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 4: you can't see where he was sitting. So the bullet
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 4: has come through the wall and it is exited and
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 4: it is resting on these bundles of paper. This is
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 4: supposedly where they found this bullet, laying just like that.
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 3: Hole in the wall a little above the boxes, like.
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 4: Right above it. Yeah, right now, one could look at
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 4: this and say, this looks pretty damning, right. And I
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 4: was trying to tell Joe before the show. Do you
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 4: see where it looks like the edge of a coin
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 4: around the base of the of the bullet, right where
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 4: it has those little striations. I thought that that was
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 4: something significant, But it turns out that it is not. Joe,
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 4: is not anything significant, And here's why. So these are
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 4: man lick her carcano bullets in their entire tee. Okay.
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 4: So what those little striations do at the bottom of
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 4: the bullet is allow it to be seated and slightly
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 4: crimped into the shell. Okay, So those little striations kind
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 4: of hold the bullet into the shell, and as as
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 4: as the bullet is fired, right, it blows that end
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 4: out just enough to release off those striations, to let
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 4: the bullet loose and to be fired from the rifle,
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 4: and then you're left with an empty shell. So those
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 4: striations at the bottom of the bullet are not specific
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 4: to the man liquor carcando bullet. Is what I'm trying
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 4: to say. Thirty out Almost all bullets.
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 3: Do this, I see, I see.
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 4: Okay, because at least the older ones, because this was
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 4: this was the technology of the time to you know,
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 4: keep a bullet in the shell together this picture until
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 4: the gunpowder pushed it out.
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 3: So this picture is a little deceiving in a sense.
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 4: It is a little deceiving because one could say, hey, well, damn,
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 4: that looks awfully like a man liquor carcando bullet. But
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 4: the coloration of the copper is off to me a
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 4: little bit. It's off a little bit, you see what
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 4: I'm saying. Like the one the right is darker, it
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 4: appears to me in color. Yeah. Now, ear is a
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 4: collection of thirty odd six bullets. They come in various.
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 3: Could be lighting too, but you never know it'd be.
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 4: They come in various shapes and sizes. Now look at
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 4: the shells. They are all exactly the same size and shape,
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 4: but the bullet itself can be different. You have very
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 4: sharp points, you have a more hollow point, and then
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 4: the one on the far left, Joe has more of
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 4: a blunt shape to it very man liquor carcano esque,
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 4: if you will, if you remember what the Carcano bullet
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 4: looks like. So look at the one on the left. Right,
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 4: Now look at the man like Kirk Carcano, same kind
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 4: of shape, right. The man Kerrcando bullets do not have
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 4: a very tapered or sharp or hollow point to them.
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 4: They're kind of blunt, right, So it's not older the
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 4: rim of possibility that this bullet and this is not
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 4: a steel jacketed. The one that is steel jacketed is
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 4: kind of in the middle. You can see it. It
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 4: has a more silver hue to it, and it's reflecting
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 4: the copper from the left side. But that's a steel
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 4: jacket at thirty out six. The third one from the left,
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 4: and there's a copper jacket at thirty out six all
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 4: the way on the left with the blunt nose. It
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 4: kind of looks like a carcano right now. The Carcano
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 4: bullet is a six and a half millimeter bullet, which
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 4: means it's how wide it is. Right, A thirty odd
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 4: six bullet is seven point eight two millimeters. That's the
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 4: universal size, right, six point five. The thirty stands The
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 4: thirty stands for thirty caliber. The six has nothing to
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 4: do with its size. It refers to I believe year
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 4: it was invented or something, I don't know, nineteen oh six. Now,
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 4: the reason I'm telling you all this stuff about the
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 4: bullet is because there were questions. There were questions because
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 4: of course, you know, if the Warrant Commission or the
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 4: FBI could tie this bullet the manly Kirk Carcano and
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 4: Lee Harvey Oswald to shooting at Walker two, well that's
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 4: just another feather in their cap right.
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 3: They would have done it if they could, because.
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 4: It portrays him as a crazy person that was just
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 4: taking pot shots at anybody and everybody across the spectrum,
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 4: from anti communist fascists to Pinko commune presidents. Right, So
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 4: the FBI was tasked after the fact, Okay, once it
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 4: came out that you know, this could possibly be Lee
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 4: Harvey Oswald, this could possibly be a bullet from his rifle.
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 4: So on December ninth, nineteen sixty three, the FBI Lab
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 4: advised Chief Jesse Curry of Dallas, Texas as follows concerning
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 4: an examination requested by the Dallas office on December second,
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 4: nineteen sixty three. Now, just to point out the timing here, Joe.
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 4: The Walker letter was not found until when.
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 3: December second, I believe December.
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 4: Second, okay. And this was an examination requested by the
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 4: Dallas office of the FBI on December second, So makes sense. Specimen,
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 4: and this is what they were called it before the
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 4: warrant commission exhibit. They were calling this bullet from Edwin
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 4: Walker's residence Q one eight eight okay, okay. And the
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 4: results of the FBI laboratory examination of Q one and
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 4: eight is as follows. The remaining physical characteristics of the
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 4: bullet Q one eighty eight are the same as those
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 4: of the bullet and bullet fragments recovered in connection with
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 4: the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, and the same
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 4: as those of six and a half millimeters Manly carcano
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 4: bullets manufactured by the Western Cartridge Company. The mutilation of
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 4: Q one eighty eight prevents stating that it is of
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 4: Western manufacturer to the exclusion of all other sources. So
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 4: what that says in Layman's terms is that the physical
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 4: characteristics right and the composition of the bullets match to
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 4: a six and a half millimeter carcano bullet made by
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 4: the Western Cartridge company. Now we all know that they're
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 4: what do they call it, Joe specter spec term that
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 4: the spectography of analyzing the uh different makeups of these
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 4: bullets was not anywhere near one hundred chemical chemical composition.
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, this this was questionable at best and later would
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 4: be ruled inadmissible in court because it's so unreliable.
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 3: Right. We covered that in the in the book review.
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so you can take that into consideration however you want.
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 4: But they are saying one thing you can't fuck up
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 4: in spectrography is the actual caliber of the bullet. So
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 4: if they measure the bullet and it's six and a
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 4: half millimeter, that's kind of damning because that's a big
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 4: leap from six and a half millimeter to seven point
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 4: eight two millimeter if it was an actual thirty odd
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 4: six bullet. Right. So, and what they're saying is the
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 4: mutilation is preventing them from saying that it is definitely
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 4: a Western Cartridge bullet due to or to the exclusion
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 4: of all other sources. So they can't one hundred percent
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 4: say that it's the same bullet because it's too mutilated.
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 4: Specimen Q one eight was fired from a barrel rifled
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 4: with four lands in grooves with a right twist. Now,
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 4: I believe what they're referring to here is the different
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 4: striations right that are found on the body of the bullet.
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 4: You can see them much better on CE three ninety nine.
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 4: These are the vertical lines that are imprinted on the bullet,
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 4: and a right twist, which means that as the bullet
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 4: is fired from a rifle, it twists one direction or another. However,
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 4: the barrel is grooved right, and as the bullet travels
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 4: through the barrel of a rifle, it leaves marks due
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 4: to minuscule defects in the barrel or in the rifle
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 4: barrel right. So it's kind of almost it can almost
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 4: kind of give a bullet a fingerprint if you will, right,
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 4: and you are able to test a rifle and almost
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 4: match them up. The striations and the twist to either
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 4: be exact or not exactly.
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 3: We're different, so unique.
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, So what they're saying is basically, you could measure
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 4: in between the striations of bullets fired from the same
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 4: rifle and that they would be exact or you know,
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 4: pretty damn close, which would lead them to say that, Okay,
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 4: this bullet was fired from this rifle. Now, how accurate
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 4: that information was in nineteen sixty three and how scientifically
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 4: sound that method is, I don't know. It seems to
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 4: me like it's still in use today because you hear
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 4: about these things today, how they can match bullets like this, right,
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 4: So that might be legit now, Man Looker. Krkono rifles
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 4: of the type used in the assassination of President Kennedy
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 4: are among those which produced general rifling impressions such as
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 4: were found on Specimen Q eighty eight. But because of
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 4: the extreme mutilation and distortion, and because the individual microscopic
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 4: marks left on bullets by the barrel of the K
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 4: one rifle could have changed subsequent to the time Q
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 4: one eighty eight was fired, it is not possible to
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 4: determine whether or not Q one eighty eight was fired
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 4: from K one, which is the man liquor carcando in question.
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 4: So basically, what they're saying is that this is not
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 4: an exact science because each time a bullet is fired
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 4: through a rifle barrel, it could knock off one of
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 4: the minuscule things inside the barrel that cause a striation,
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 4: so it could have a striation on it as it
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 4: goes through, but it might knock that off, So the
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 4: next bowl that goes through the rifle barrel might not
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 4: have that exact same striation pattern, right, Or you know,
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 4: a small piece of gunpowder could become lodged in the
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 4: barrel after shooting a bullet and get stuck in there,
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 4: and as the next bullet gets fired through there, it
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 4: scrapes down down the side of the bullet and creates
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 4: a new kind of stration pattern. So it doesn't sound
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 4: to me like a very exact science, but I could
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 4: be wrong. But again, they're saying that they cannot say
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 4: with one hundred percent certainty that the bullet was fired
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 4: from the Oswald rifle. There are no specimens presently being
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 4: maintained in the National Unidentified Ammunition File which could have
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 4: been fired from the K one rifle or which logically
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 4: should be compared with Q one eight eight. Further, no
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 4: bullets or rifles which logically should be compared with Specimen
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 4: Q one eighty eight have come to the attention of
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 4: the FBI LAB since March of sixty three. Now what
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 4: this sounds like to me is they are giving a
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 4: very general generality to the man liquor car Kano rifle,
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 4: and not specifically Oswalt's man lick her Carcano rifle. Right.
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 4: They're generally saying that man Lick her Carcano rifles in
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 4: general leave these type of striations in twists as a
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 4: general rule, but they cannot definitively match it to Oswalt's
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 4: per se Right says. The copper jacket and the lead
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 4: core of the Q one eighty eight bullet was determined
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 4: to be slightly different in compositions from the copper jacket
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 4: and lead core of the Q one and Q two bullets.
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 4: Although the difference in composition between the Q one eight
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 4: eight and the Q one and Q two were small
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 4: and do not indicate that these bullets represent two different
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 4: types of bullets, it is not possible to determine if
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 4: these bullets came from the same box. It is to
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 4: be noted that there is no assurance in the fabrication
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 4: of ammunition that all the ammunition ending up in one
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 4: box possesses bullets from the same batch of metal, that is,
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 4: with the same composition. The bullet Q one eighty eight
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 4: is being temporarily retained in the lab for comparison with
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 4: any additional bullets which may be received so that's them
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 4: telling Dallas, hey, we're going to hang on to the
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 4: Walker bullet here for future comparisons. You may not have
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 4: it back. Now. This is where it gets interesting, Joe. So,
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 4: in nineteen seventy eight, as the HSCA is going on,
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 4: General Walker starts getting antsy, and he starts writing letters
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 4: and sending telegrams to anyone who he believes will listen
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 4: to him to get a message to Robert Blakey at
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 4: the HSCA. He writes his senators, he writes his congressman,
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 4: he writes the governor, he writes the mayor. He even
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 4: tries to send a telegram directly to Robert Blakey. And
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 4: he says, he's saying the same thing in all of
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 4: these type of correspondents that the Walker bullet that the
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 4: HSCA has in its possession that came from the FBI
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 4: lab is not the same bullet that was taken out
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 4: of his wall on April tenth, nineteen sixty three. He says,
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 4: he held the bullet in his hand, he knows what
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 4: it looks like. It's burned in his memory, and whatever
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 4: the HSCA has, which is this one, is not the
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 4: same bullet that was taken out of his wall. And
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 4: he is very adamant about this to the point of ridiculousness.
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 4: As I said, he is writing letters, he's sending telegrams
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 4: to anybody that will listen, saying, hey, I'm trying to
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 4: tell you that is not the same bullet that they
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 4: took out of my wall that has been replaced. Now,
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 4: he never does say exactly what is different about this bullet.
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 4: He just simply generally states that it is definitely not
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 4: the same one that was taken out of his wall
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 4: that he held in his hand. Right, So again he's
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 4: implicating the Dallas police in some kind of fuckery, right,
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 4: because the one that the HSCA has is the same
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 4: exact one that the Warrant Commission had from the FBI.
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 4: So whatever happened to the bullet, Okay, you got to remember,
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 4: the Walker bullet was in Dallas police evidence custody from
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 4: April tenth, nineteen sixty three, until December of nineteen sixty three,
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 4: when it was alleged that Oswald could have possibly been
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 4: the shooter, and they went and dug this bullet out
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 4: of evidence and to re examine it, if you will. Now,
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 4: General Walker said some crazy shit over the years. Crazy.
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 4: He even alleged at one point in Joe that it
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 4: was Jack Ruby and Lee Harvey Oswald who shot at him,
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 4: And he claimed that the Dallas police picked up Jack
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 4: Ruby and Lee Harvey Oswald after the shooting and at
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 4: the behest of the Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy, the
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 4: Dallas police turned them loose without punishment. Now that sounds
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 4: to me like the mad rantings of a very bitter man. Yeah,
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 4: there was no love loss between General Walker and the Kennedys,
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 4: especially Bobby Right and JFK. I mean, they had him
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 4: committed to the looney band.
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 3: He lost his faculties.
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 4: I mean he didn't stay in long, but you know
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 4: he was committed, not of his own power.
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 3: Still humiliating, right, Yeah.
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 4: And of course he definitely didn't agree with their policies.
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 4: He thought JFK was a pinko comedy bastard and that
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 4: RFK was, you know, his little bitch brother, and didn't
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 4: didn't like him at all. Hence this letter. H uh.
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 4: So this is for the houselet Committee on Assassinations and
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 4: this is very late, I will say, this is after
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 4: the the HSCA final report kind of just when Joean
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 4: Needy's was actually retiring.
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 3: January nineteen seventy nine.
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 4: No, this is after that, actually after the final This
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 4: is June twenty first of seventy nine, and it's to
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 4: the Director of the FBI, from Special Counsel to the
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 4: Attorney General, mister Robert Cooch Hey Coot, and it's referring
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 4: to the House Select Committee on Assassinations US House of
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 4: Representatives claim of General Edwin Walker. And it says this
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 4: will respond to your menamorandum of June twenty first, nineteen
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 4: seventy nine, with enclosures concerning General Walker's claim that the
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 4: HSCA during its September seventy eight hearings substituted a bullet
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 4: for the one originally recovered at his house on April tenth,
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 4: nineteen sixty three. Bureau files clearly indicate that Dallas, Texas
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 4: Police Department officers conducted the original investigation of the shooting
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 4: at that time. Reportedly, a Dallas officer, Billy Jean Norvelle,
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 4: located a bullet among some debris at Walker's residence on
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 4: June third, nineteen sixty four. Norvelle advised an FBI agent
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 4: that quote. He then picked up the bullet and scratched
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 4: his initials b N for Billy Norvell or his initial
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 4: INN on the base of it for Norvelle. He couldn't
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 4: remember which one he did. It was either b IN
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 4: or IN. On May twenty eighth, nineteen sixty four, B. G. Brown,
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 4: a police officer assigned to the Crime Scene Search Section
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 4: Dallas Police Department, and advised a special agent of the FBI.
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 4: Then on April tenth, he responded to the Walker residence
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 4: where Officer Norvell gave him a bullet recovered at that residence.
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 4: Quote Brown stated, he marked a bullet and took it
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 4: back to CSSs for safe keeping. Okay. Also on May
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 4: twenty eight, nineteen sixty four, Dallas Police Lieutenant JC Day
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 4: advised an FBI agent, and on April twenty fifth, he
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 4: took the bullet from CSSs, marked it for identification, and
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 4: then personally took it to the City count County Criminal
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 4: Investigation Laboratory at Parkland Memorial Hospital in Dallas, Texas, where
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 4: he gave it to FT Alexander and Louis Anderson, not
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 4: the fact Dead comic but different Louis Anderson. Lieutenant Day
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 4: also advised that he retrieved the Walker bullet from CCCIL
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 4: on December second, ninth, teen sixty three, that was the
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 4: lab at Parkland, and gave it to FBI Special Agent
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 4: Bardwell Odem Won that same date, Special Agent Odem forwarded
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 4: the bullet to the FBI lab, where it arrived for
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 4: examination on December fourth. The FBI lab compared the Walker
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 4: bullet to test bullets fire from Oswald rifle. However, no
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 4: positive identification could be made. The FBI record of this
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 4: examination shows no indication that the FBI significantly altered the
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 4: Walker bullet in any respect. The FBI designated the Walker
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 4: bullet as Q one eight eight and item number C
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 4: one four eight. Item C one four eight was delivered
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 4: to the Warren Commission on March twenty first, nineteen sixty four.
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 4: It was subsequently designated Warren Commission Exhibit five seven three
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 4: or CE five seven three. A nineteen sixty three photograph
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 4: of the Walker bullet and FBI records appear as identical
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 4: two CE five seven three. FBI records indicate the Item
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 4: C one eight was turned over to the custody of
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 4: the National Archives and Records Service in nineteen sixty six,
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 4: so the FBI lab turned it over to NARA in
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 4: sixty six, and it was retrieved from NARA in nineteen
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 4: seventy eight and given to the HSCA for their purposes
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 4: right so on June twenty ninth, nineteen seventy nine. This
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 4: is after long after the hsca's final report has been out,
• 1:53:37
  Speaker 4: a representative of NARA accompanied CE five seventy three back
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 4: to FBI headquarters, where the bullet was microscopically examined in
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 4: an FBI lab. While remaining within the observation controlling custody
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 4: of the NARA representative, the following were noted. CE five
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 4: seven three appears to be contained in an original let's
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 4: police evidence box. The cover or top of the box
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 4: bears four ten sixty three forty eleven Turtle Creek berg
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 4: by FA BGB r f jh Q one eighty eight,
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 4: The inside bottom of the box bears Day seven six
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 4: forty and the outside bottom of the box bears seven
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 4: sixty four zero day, as well as Q one, Q
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 4: one eight eight and r MM period. Identifiable marks were
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 4: found inscribed on varying portions of the bullet itself. It
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 4: must be understood that certain markings are clearly discernible, and
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 4: others admit of more than one interpretation, while others may
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 4: be obscured by oxidation or otherwise. Among the discernible markings
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 4: are Q one eighty eight and this is on the
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 4: bullet itself, and letters which appear to be as follows.
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 4: There is an N A B A J A D
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 4: AN A and O or A D A j H
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 4: with the H joined to the J, and an r
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 4: F with the F joined to the R. The NB,
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 4: J and D may refer to Dallas police officers Norville
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 4: Brown and Lieutenant J. C. D. The A may refer
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 4: to Alexander or Anderson.
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 8: Of the c c ci L, that is, the City
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 8: County Crime Identification Lab there was at Parkland.
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 4: The significance of O or D is not certain at
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 4: this time. The J H AN r F, which I
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 4: think the RF could be Robert Fraser, he was the
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 4: FBI's ballistics expert, refers to FBI lab examiners in nineteen
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 4: sixty three. So, in conclusion, the Walker bullets CE five
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 4: seventy three, as it exists in Nara at this writing
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 4: appears identical to Q one eight eight as it was
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 4: examined by the FBI lab in sixty three. If in fact,
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 4: the HSCA displayed or referred to CE five seventy three
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 4: as the Walker bullet during September of seventy eight, then
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 4: the HSCA is correct according to FBI records, and General
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 4: Walker is mistaken in his recollection. At present, only the
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 4: published records of the HSAA hearings can speak to what
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 4: the HSCA may have displayed or referred to with regard
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 4: to the Walker bullet. General Walker is free to obtain
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 4: the published HSCA hearings from the Government Printing Office, North
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 4: Capitol on eighth Streets in Washington, d C. Note this
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 4: matter has been coordinated with Miss Cheers, Marion Johnson and
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 4: Mike Lee of NARA. Special Agent McNair Perry of the
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 4: Firearms Tool Marks Unit, Laboratory Division of the FBI. Involved
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 4: in the six twenty nine seventy nine lab examination were
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 4: lab technicians Joseph Twardowski and Robert Murphy. Twenty four photographs
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 4: of the Q one A eight were made and will
• 1:57:16
  Speaker 4: be retained as the enclosures to the six to two
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 4: DASH one zero nine zero six zero file copy of
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 4: this document. Mister Mike Leahy of NARA accompanied five seventy
• 1:57:25
  Speaker 4: three or Q one eight eight back to FBI headquarters
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 4: on six twenty nine, seventy nine. Maintained observation, control and
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 4: custody of this item throughout the examination process until it
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 4: was returned to NARA. Whew. So that's a lot, Joe,
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 4: that's a lot.
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 3: That's a lot.
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 4: Now. I also have here an FBI laboratory worksheet from
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 4: December fourth, nineteen sixty three. And I was correct about
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 4: Fraser was one of the examiners, Robert Fraser, and the
• 1:58:06
  Speaker 4: other j H. This guy's last name is Hei Burger.
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 4: First name starts with a J. I don't know what
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 4: it is, but those initials are on there. So if
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 4: the bullet was switched out, it wasn't done by the FBI.
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 4: It was done by the Dallas police. But why but why?
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 3: Because you think Walker has a ton of you know,
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 3: right wing friends in the FBI, I mean, in the DPD.
• 1:58:39
  Speaker 4: Walker changed his mind often and said, you know, because
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 4: he was all about Oswald being his shooter, right, And
• 1:58:49
  Speaker 4: of course that morphed and changed over time, you know,
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 4: up until like the late eighties, you know, and then
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 4: it wasn't. It wasn't Oswald that shot at him. It
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 4: was some other kind of crazy conspiracy theory that he had.
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 3: That was My other question is why would Walker be
• 1:59:08
  Speaker 3: trying so hard to lobby everyone in the HFCA to
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 3: get them to kind of say that, hey, the bullet
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 3: is not actually the bullet that I held, because that
• 1:59:20
  Speaker 3: implicates the Kamie Oswalt, right, the bullet that's in custody now.
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 4: Right, because you could say, hey, that looks a lot
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 4: like a carcano bullet. You know, It's not like it
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 4: looks like something else. Now. What I also found interesting
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 4: Joe in the course of looking for shit for this,
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 4: and this is a copy of the telegram that he
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 4: sent to Robert Blakey actually, and it says, the bullet
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 4: before you're select committee called the Walker bullet is not
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 4: the Walker bullet. It is not the bullet that was
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 4: fired to me and taken out of my house by
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 4: the Dallas City Police on April tenth. The bullet you
• 2:00:10
  Speaker 4: have was never gotten from me or taken out of
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 4: my house by anyone at any time. Edwin Walker, five
• 2:00:16
  Speaker 4: point thirty a Mount Vernon, Dallas. This is what he
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 4: was sending everybody. And there's no mincing words here, right,
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 4: he blatantly says it. Now, what I found interesting, Joe,
• 2:00:38
  Speaker 4: is a comparison of man liquor carcano bullets. Okay, Okay. Now,
• 2:00:46
  Speaker 4: the bullet on the far left is CE three ninety nine,
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 4: aka the magic bullet. Okay. Now, the two bullets beside
• 2:00:55
  Speaker 4: it CE five seven to two are two bullets that
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 4: were fired into cotton wadding, okay, which look a hell
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 4: of a lot like CE three ninety nine. The next
• 2:01:11
  Speaker 4: bullet we have was a bullet fired through a goat's
• 2:01:15
  Speaker 4: rib CE eight five three. Interesting, I got where it
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 4: appears to have flattened out a bit.
• 2:01:24
  Speaker 3: Trying to imitate like going through flush, right.
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah. And the last one is a bullet fired through
• 2:01:34
  Speaker 4: the wrist of a human cadaver, and it is very
• 2:01:39
  Speaker 4: deformed on the top right right, It definitely hit bone.
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 3: Thank connolly right.
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 4: So I thought that was interesting and definitely disproved the
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 4: single bullet theory or the magic bullet theory.
• 2:01:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, cree uh. You know, it didn't go
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 3: through all that bone like the one on the right
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 3: eight fifty six allegedly did, or even.
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 4: Goats deflected the ribs rib. Uh.
• 2:02:16
  Speaker 3: It looks the same as if it went through the
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 3: cotton lining of those two bullets on the left or.
• 2:02:27
  Speaker 4: In the middle. Yeah, now here's one that's even more interesting,
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 4: Joe Boom. What you're looking at, okay, is Exhibit A
• 2:02:42
  Speaker 4: at the top is skull damage produced by a six
• 2:02:50
  Speaker 4: and a half millimeter carcano bullet fired at the back
• 2:02:54
  Speaker 4: of a skull. Okay, okay, ain't no jet effect. There's
• 2:03:03
  Speaker 4: no gaping wound. There's clearly just an entrance hole. Right.
• 2:03:14
  Speaker 4: Exhibit B is the exit wound or front of the skull. So,
• 2:03:21
  Speaker 4: if in fact, Kennedy had been shot from the rear
• 2:03:24
  Speaker 4: and a bullet went in the back of his skull,
• 2:03:26
  Speaker 4: this is what his face would have been looked like.
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 4: It would have been obliterated. Huh like severely obliterated.
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 3: Like the back of his hyblas.
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 4: Right. So these two things right here that I'm pointing
• 2:03:44
  Speaker 4: out to you, I mean, what more evidence do you need?
• 2:03:51
  Speaker 4: I mean, this right here says it all. I mean,
• 2:03:55
  Speaker 4: this is a test of a six and a half
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 4: millimeter Carcando bullet what allegedly was Oswald was firing from behind.
• 2:04:05
  Speaker 4: There would have been a very small entrance wound in
• 2:04:07
  Speaker 4: the base of the skull and a very gigantic blowout
• 2:04:11
  Speaker 4: of Kennedy's face. And we know from the autopsy pictures
• 2:04:16
  Speaker 4: that Kennedy's face was money. It was not obliterated. You know,
• 2:04:21
  Speaker 4: he looked like his normal self.
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 3: What more do you need?
• 2:04:26
  Speaker 4: Just like you said, I mean, bing bang boom. Argument's over,
• 2:04:34
  Speaker 4: Loan Nutter, you know what I'm saying, Like, deny this shit? Right, yeah,
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 4: come at me, bro, What do you got You got nothing?
• 2:04:51
  Speaker 4: I mean this right here, I would say, is the
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 4: be all end all as far as evidence goes that
• 2:04:58
  Speaker 4: and these bullets, Yeah, I mean.
• 2:05:09
  Speaker 3: Literally, yeah, I mean that's undeniable to the trained eye.
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 3: And of course when you watch the film and see
• 2:05:17
  Speaker 3: JFK go back and to the.
• 2:05:19
  Speaker 4: Left, right back, to the left, back and to the left. Now,
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 4: we did this book, Joe. From the last book review,
• 2:05:31
  Speaker 4: General Walker and the Murder of President Kennedy the extensive
• 2:05:35
  Speaker 4: new evidence of a radical right wing conspiracy. So if
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 4: you like to check that out, check out our newest
• 2:05:42
  Speaker 4: book review. But I have a couple of things that
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 4: I wanted to point out from this book that are
• 2:05:50
  Speaker 4: relevant to the discussion. I think. So I don't know
• 2:06:15
  Speaker 4: why I marked that page, but I know why I
• 2:06:17
  Speaker 4: marked this page. So if you remember when Jack Ruby
• 2:06:27
  Speaker 4: is in custody after shooting Oswald and Chief Justice Warren
• 2:06:34
  Speaker 4: comes to Dallas and is questioning Jack Ruby. Jack Ruby says,
• 2:06:42
  Speaker 4: point blank, there is an organization here, Chief Justice Warren,
• 2:06:49
  Speaker 4: if it takes my life at this moment to say it,
• 2:06:52
  Speaker 4: and Bill Decker said, be a man and say it.
• 2:06:56
  Speaker 4: There is a John Birch Society right now in activity,
• 2:07:01
  Speaker 4: and Edwin Walker is one of the top men in
• 2:07:04
  Speaker 4: the organization. Take it for what it's worth, Chief Justice Warren.
• 2:07:09
  Speaker 4: Unfortunately for me, for me, giving the people the opportunity
• 2:07:13
  Speaker 4: to get in power because of the act I committed
• 2:07:17
  Speaker 4: has put a lot of people in jeopardy with their lives.
• 2:07:20
  Speaker 4: Don't register with you, does it? And all Chief Justice
• 2:07:24
  Speaker 4: Warren says is no, I don't understand that, Jack. So
• 2:07:33
  Speaker 4: you hear you have the closest thing to a confession
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 4: from Jack Ruby blatantly stating an organization a powerful individual.
• 2:07:49
  Speaker 4: And Warren says, I don't understand that. Okay, yeah, yeah.
• 2:07:59
  Speaker 4: And couple that, Joe with this passage from a letter
• 2:08:11
  Speaker 4: to Billy James Hargas dated December of nineteen sixty six,
• 2:08:17
  Speaker 4: when he says, now in December of sixty sixth Jack
• 2:08:21
  Speaker 4: Ruby is not dead yet. Right when did Jack Ruby die?
• 2:08:25
  Speaker 4: Google that, ask rop.
• 2:08:30
  Speaker 3: I believe it was very close.
• 2:08:33
  Speaker 4: I believe it was February or March sixty seven, but
• 2:08:36
  Speaker 4: I could be wrong.
• 2:08:45
  Speaker 3: January third, nineteen sixty seven.
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 4: Okay, So this letter is dated two three, less than
• 2:08:55
  Speaker 4: a week, six days before Jack Ruby would die. And
• 2:09:01
  Speaker 4: apparently he wrote this letter because Jack Ruby had been
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 4: transferred from jail to Parkland Hospital because he wasn't doing
• 2:09:10
  Speaker 4: very well. He says this, you're Billy, thank you so
• 2:09:17
  Speaker 4: much for my wonderful briefcase. It is great and will
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 4: be very useful, and I like to be carrying something
• 2:09:25
  Speaker 4: from Christian crusade. It gives me much more confidence. I'm
• 2:09:30
  Speaker 4: sorry I missed going with you betting the kids for
• 2:09:33
  Speaker 4: a few days, as I had intended. It's my loss,
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 4: which I will have to make up. My plans were
• 2:09:39
  Speaker 4: set but shattered. I didn't feel it right to leave
• 2:09:43
  Speaker 4: when the printer was a week late and we did
• 2:09:48
  Speaker 4: not get our Christian or Christmas publications until the nineteenth
• 2:09:53
  Speaker 4: after spending one thousand dollars for print for this crash program.
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 4: We had to get them out about three thousand, quite
• 2:10:03
  Speaker 4: a task for us here. I believe it is timely
• 2:10:07
  Speaker 4: with respect to the lawsuits and a coming Supreme Court decision.
• 2:10:11
  Speaker 4: Clyde thought it was good. Another peculiarity. Somebody we talked
• 2:10:18
  Speaker 4: about here and heard talk. George de Mornshield returned it
• 2:10:22
  Speaker 4: to Dallas from Haiti, as Rubinstein is allegedly in the
• 2:10:27
  Speaker 4: hospital dying with cancer and might talk. De Morninshield made
• 2:10:33
  Speaker 4: a front page spread and our informant pit produced his
• 2:10:37
  Speaker 4: address and who he was staying with. Not good a warning.
• 2:10:46
  Speaker 4: When Rubinstein leaves the hospital in a box and in
• 2:10:50
  Speaker 4: parentheses the only way he will come out. There is
• 2:10:55
  Speaker 4: no further block to returning the blame to the right wing.
• 2:11:02
  Speaker 4: The books and press will gradually pick it up again.
• 2:11:05
  Speaker 4: RFK must have it. It must be done as insurance
• 2:11:10
  Speaker 4: and assurance and RFK political necessity.
• 2:11:19
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 2:11:19
  Speaker 4: I don't know about you, Joe, but that's sure as
• 2:11:23
  Speaker 4: hell is a pretty incriminating letter to Billy James Hargas. Okay,
• 2:11:31
  Speaker 4: that they're worried about Ruby dying or talking or something,
• 2:11:38
  Speaker 4: and then once he's dead, then they're going to shift
• 2:11:41
  Speaker 4: the blame back to the right wing. For the Kennedy assassination,
• 2:11:45
  Speaker 4: and he's also threatening basically the life of Robert F. Kennedy,
• 2:11:51
  Speaker 4: who would be killed a year and a half later,
• 2:11:56
  Speaker 4: and he's worried about what the Mornshield could say too. Yeah,
• 2:12:02
  Speaker 4: who knows what the connection between them two is. But again,
• 2:12:08
  Speaker 4: I highly recommend everybody check out this book. Like I said,
• 2:12:13
  Speaker 4: like we said in the book review, it's a thick boy,
• 2:12:16
  Speaker 4: it's a thicken and it is chock full of shit
• 2:12:19
  Speaker 4: you've never heard of or seen before, connections and it's
• 2:12:24
  Speaker 4: well written and all that jazz, and it's crazy stuff
• 2:12:28
  Speaker 4: in here, Joe. Now, one thing, the final thing that
• 2:12:32
  Speaker 4: I wanted to point out to everybody before we get
• 2:12:34
  Speaker 4: the hell out of here is, you know, timing of
• 2:12:39
  Speaker 4: things is awfully funny when it comes to the Kennedy assassination.
• 2:12:46
  Speaker 4: And when you pick a puzzle piece from over here
• 2:12:49
  Speaker 4: and you put it next to this one, instead of
• 2:12:51
  Speaker 4: just being an anomaly, all of it, all of his
• 2:12:53
  Speaker 4: own over here, sometimes things might start falling in the place.
• 2:13:01
  Speaker 4: I don't know, who knows right now, the timing of
• 2:13:07
  Speaker 4: the Walker shooting. Like I said, he returned home on
• 2:13:09
  Speaker 4: April eighth, right, and at this time Oswald was living
• 2:13:19
  Speaker 4: in Dallas, Okay. But he had lived in New Orleans
• 2:13:25
  Speaker 4: and he knew people in New Orleans, right, And at
• 2:13:28
  Speaker 4: the time he wasn't working okay because he lost his
• 2:13:33
  Speaker 4: job with Jagger Child Stovall. So technically he doesn't need
• 2:13:43
  Speaker 4: to be in Dallas somewhere around this date if you
• 2:13:47
  Speaker 4: can prove maybe that he was somewhere else. And we've
• 2:13:52
  Speaker 4: gone over this little bit of information on the show before,
• 2:13:55
  Speaker 4: but I believe the date of it is relevant to
• 2:14:00
  Speaker 4: the Walker shooting because when you look at it again
• 2:14:06
  Speaker 4: through fresh eyes, we have a flight plan filed by
• 2:14:12
  Speaker 4: David Ferry on April eighth, nineteen sixty three, from New
• 2:14:19
  Speaker 4: Orleans to Dallas, Okay, and his passengers are listed as
• 2:14:27
  Speaker 4: high Deel, Lambert and Diaz.
• 2:14:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's on the bottom right corner.
• 2:14:35
  Speaker 4: Wow. Correct. Wow. And when you take into consideration what
• 2:14:42
  Speaker 4: your boy Kirk Coleman said that he saw that night
• 2:14:48
  Speaker 4: with two different cars and he maybe saw he saw
• 2:14:51
  Speaker 4: three people, but there could have been four. Maybe there
• 2:14:55
  Speaker 4: was one that he didn't see, maybe one stayed in
• 2:14:58
  Speaker 4: the car, one didn't even go, maybe one didn't even go.
• 2:15:03
  Speaker 4: But here you have a menagerie of people flying from
• 2:15:08
  Speaker 4: New Orleans to Dallas the same day Walker returns to Dallas. Wow, okay,
• 2:15:19
  Speaker 4: they have a day to figure things out and formulate
• 2:15:22
  Speaker 4: a plan once they get here. Maybe stake the place
• 2:15:25
  Speaker 4: out in the ninth figure, there's a dog barking, and shit,
• 2:15:29
  Speaker 4: we'll just poisonous month. We'll give him a big piece
• 2:15:32
  Speaker 4: of meat with some rat poison. Maybe dog.
• 2:15:37
  Speaker 3: I think Marina said that he was like visiting Walker's
• 2:15:40
  Speaker 3: house like in the month prior, so he could have
• 2:15:43
  Speaker 3: been casing that out well before they got in that.
• 2:15:47
  Speaker 3: You know, you think that.
• 2:15:48
  Speaker 4: You can't trust what she says and who knows. The
• 2:15:53
  Speaker 4: point being is this is a very This becomes an
• 2:15:57
  Speaker 4: even more interesting document when you into consideration with the
• 2:16:01
  Speaker 4: Walker shooting and what our one eyewitness says that he
• 2:16:08
  Speaker 4: saw multiple people. So you would have David Ferry, you
• 2:16:13
  Speaker 4: would have a high Del, a Lambert, and a Das
• 2:16:17
  Speaker 4: right now. Allegedly one of Shaw's aliases was Lambert. Allegedly.
• 2:16:25
  Speaker 4: Of course, we know Oswald's alias was Hidel And speaking
• 2:16:31
  Speaker 4: of Daz, you have a dz Lands, you know who
• 2:16:37
  Speaker 4: knows definitely a Latino with that name, who knows about Lambert?
• 2:16:44
  Speaker 4: I mean, I just can't see clay Shaw flying to
• 2:16:48
  Speaker 4: Dallas and being in on a murder or an attempted.
• 2:16:51
  Speaker 3: Murder, he wouldn't need to get his hands dirty like that.
• 2:16:56
  Speaker 4: But it doesn't mean that somebody wouldn't have used one
• 2:16:59
  Speaker 4: of his aliases in case to implicate him, in case
• 2:17:03
  Speaker 4: something went wrong. They say, well, you're on my flight
• 2:17:06
  Speaker 4: playing flight plan manifest, buddy, so you better go along
• 2:17:09
  Speaker 4: with the story when it could have actually been somebody else.
• 2:17:16
  Speaker 3: So wild shit, Wow, my mind is blown. Man. That's
• 2:17:26
  Speaker 3: that's really interesting, you know, because I'm going back and
• 2:17:29
  Speaker 3: forth on this. You know, I don't distrust of what
• 2:17:35
  Speaker 3: some of what George de Morenshield says. Of course, like
• 2:17:37
  Speaker 3: you said, you can't put much into what Marina said.
• 2:17:41
  Speaker 3: But uh uh, you know de Morrinshield left soon after
• 2:17:48
  Speaker 3: that for Haiti as well. I I think it's very possible.
• 2:17:55
  Speaker 3: I think if if Oswald did shoot at anyone, he'd
• 2:18:00
  Speaker 3: did't shoot at Kennedy, he, like de Morchell said, could
• 2:18:03
  Speaker 3: have possibly shot orbit involved in the shooting of Walker.
• 2:18:09
  Speaker 3: But it's you know, every all the evidence is conflicting,
• 2:18:14
  Speaker 3: so it's really hard. So we kind of just tried
• 2:18:16
  Speaker 3: to lay it out for you. But but that document
• 2:18:19
  Speaker 3: definitely hits different. Rob when you take into consideration everything
• 2:18:22
  Speaker 3: we've talked about in the past two two hours and
• 2:18:26
  Speaker 3: eighteen minutes hits different. Timing is is mind blowing, actually.
• 2:18:33
  Speaker 4: And timing is everything, and so is the timing of
• 2:18:37
  Speaker 4: this podcast coming up on two and a half hours long.
• 2:18:43
  Speaker 4: You got any comments you wish your address before we.
• 2:18:45
  Speaker 3: Get Actually, we had a couple of good comments. Ozzie
• 2:18:49
  Speaker 3: James Smith says, Ozzie was shooting at leaves in the
• 2:18:52
  Speaker 3: park along Turtle Creek and oops, and the bullet the
• 2:18:58
  Speaker 3: bullet goes into walkers. That's funny. I don't think it's serious.
• 2:19:01
  Speaker 3: It's serious. Yeah, it's it's funny. Scott Edwards with his
• 2:19:06
  Speaker 3: great thing, I am not a crackpot, writes the good
• 2:19:09
  Speaker 3: General to the HC and everyone else, which essentially is
• 2:19:13
  Speaker 3: how his kind of uh his letters read. I think
• 2:19:19
  Speaker 3: uh cha. Bird came in a little late. I said
• 2:19:22
  Speaker 3: hi to him, but he said, Ruth Plane planted so
• 2:19:26
  Speaker 3: much crap. She conveniently found the letters. We went over
• 2:19:29
  Speaker 3: that in the beginning. She yeah, conveniently found the letters
• 2:19:33
  Speaker 3: and a necklace and other things that would incriminate Lee.
• 2:19:36
  Speaker 3: Just when the Warrant Commission needed proof that Oswald was involved.
• 2:19:40
  Speaker 4: I think, I mean, Joeleneberg, you said him, yeah, I corrected, Uh,
• 2:19:48
  Speaker 4: he's nun.
• 2:19:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you. And then Tray says Hei Burger says,
• 2:19:53
  Speaker 3: Walker's claims are nothing. Burger, that was one of the letters.
• 2:19:59
  Speaker 4: You yes.
• 2:20:02
  Speaker 3: But one thing I actually want to address that I
• 2:20:05
  Speaker 3: found really interesting that I wrote down. So six months
• 2:20:09
  Speaker 3: after the HCA final report in January nineteen seventy nine,
• 2:20:15
  Speaker 3: they're still doing tests on this Walker bullet.
• 2:20:20
  Speaker 4: Why just to address the because at the time, nobody
• 2:20:25
  Speaker 4: was paying attention to Walker. He was writing everybody and
• 2:20:28
  Speaker 4: their brother to try to get a message to Blakey.
• 2:20:32
  Speaker 4: But Blakeie never got these messages from congress people or
• 2:20:36
  Speaker 4: the telegram never made it to him. Nothing until after
• 2:20:39
  Speaker 4: the final report, and they were like, ooh, we might
• 2:20:43
  Speaker 4: have fucked up here. So they had to take his
• 2:20:46
  Speaker 4: inquiry seriously. So they went through the steps. And I mean,
• 2:20:50
  Speaker 4: I don't think that they proved that the Dallas police
• 2:20:54
  Speaker 4: didn't switch the bullet out, but I think they proved
• 2:20:58
  Speaker 4: that the FBI definitely didn't. And if you want to
• 2:21:02
  Speaker 4: take into consideration, you know, for this deformed, fucked up
• 2:21:08
  Speaker 4: looking bullet. Right, let's look at it again here on
• 2:21:13
  Speaker 4: the left. I mean, you have to microscopically look on
• 2:21:16
  Speaker 4: this thing to find all these initials and numbers that
• 2:21:21
  Speaker 4: are on this damn bullet as far as chain of custody.
• 2:21:24
  Speaker 4: But it sounds to me like if you can believe
• 2:21:28
  Speaker 4: the FBI examiners report that initials from the Dallas Police,
• 2:21:34
  Speaker 4: including JC Day, including the two investigating officers, that their
• 2:21:38
  Speaker 4: initials are on this bullet. So it's kind of hard
• 2:21:42
  Speaker 4: to argue that that's not the original bullet. But Walker
• 2:21:48
  Speaker 4: is emphatic that it's not the same bullet. He said,
• 2:21:56
  Speaker 4: I looked at it, I held it in my hand.
• 2:21:58
  Speaker 4: It's not the same. So I don't know.
• 2:22:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, it's you know. I hope we didn't confuse
• 2:22:06
  Speaker 3: everyone more because the goal was to try to figure
• 2:22:09
  Speaker 3: some of this out. But James Smith brings up a
• 2:22:13
  Speaker 3: good comment Hermonio Diaz Garcia, I think his name was.
• 2:22:18
  Speaker 3: That could have been the das.
• 2:22:20
  Speaker 4: There's a couple of different dias is, you know, or
• 2:22:23
  Speaker 4: it could have been just a slang for some random
• 2:22:27
  Speaker 4: Cuban that one with him who knows. Yeah, like, yeah,
• 2:22:31
  Speaker 4: I mean they're all using aliases so why would Diaz
• 2:22:34
  Speaker 4: be a real name? Yeah, I mean, clearly, why the
• 2:22:38
  Speaker 4: fuck is David Ferry putting High Deel as a passenger.
• 2:22:44
  Speaker 4: That is way too much of a coincidence, And I
• 2:22:47
  Speaker 4: don't believe in coincidences like that.
• 2:22:51
  Speaker 3: Bro at some point, yeah, period, And.
• 2:22:58
  Speaker 4: That to me is the big, big, big, big big
• 2:23:03
  Speaker 4: red flag huge. That's like huge huge.
• 2:23:07
  Speaker 3: There definitely should be some follow up on that, for sure.
• 2:23:10
  Speaker 3: And this is really interesting. NK who I think came
• 2:23:13
  Speaker 3: in late in nineteen sixty seven, Lauren Hall admitted to
• 2:23:17
  Speaker 3: being with Ferry in Dallas during the Walker shooting, but
• 2:23:20
  Speaker 3: then recanted. I'm not the follow up on this here, NK.
• 2:23:28
  Speaker 3: Maybe we'll do that on members only on ones day. Rob.
• 2:23:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, check that out. I know, and he.
• 2:23:36
  Speaker 3: Easily knows his stuff, so I do not doubt him.
• 2:23:39
  Speaker 3: But yeah, guys, great show, and I guess you could
• 2:23:51
  Speaker 3: say you're end in comment.
• 2:23:57
  Speaker 4: Get the damn dog, Joe, and I'll grab Dean Andrews
• 2:24:00
  Speaker 4: by those ballocks and grab him over here and start
• 2:24:04
  Speaker 4: him a singing. Here we go here, there's Ruby. Thank
• 2:24:20
  Speaker 4: you for hanging out with it, Hope and enjoyed the
• 2:24:22
  Speaker 4: show like I'm a Channel member and hang out with link.
• 2:24:29
  Speaker 4: The link is in the description, alongside the link to
• 2:24:32
  Speaker 4: the merch store where you can buy all kinds of
• 2:24:35
  Speaker 4: too stuff Nothing Burger T shirt, a T shirt just
• 2:24:41
  Speaker 4: grab the damn talk to. Also, if you want some
• 2:24:45
  Speaker 4: hot sauce, the link is in the description. Yeah beat
• 2:24:50
  Speaker 4: twenty percent off use our code good one Joy, britty mouth,
• 2:24:57
  Speaker 4: favor it, swallow it, gabbered on everything through your mount
• 2:25:05
  Speaker 4: You won't regret it.
• 2:25:08
  Speaker 3: Is that right, Joe, put it on everything.
• 2:25:11
  Speaker 4: That's what I do, just eating stuff. And on that note,
• 2:25:17
  Speaker 4: we are out. We'll see you next Wednesday, and before
• 2:25:22
  Speaker 4: that you'll probably see us in a book review, so
• 2:25:25
  Speaker 4: be looking out for it.
• 2:25:26
  Speaker 3: Have a great weekend, ever one peace,