Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / The Black Dahlia - Part 1

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The Black Dahlia - Part 1 · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Warning the following podcast it contains graphic content and material
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: intended for a mature audience. Listener discretion is advised.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Wicked and Grim.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: What's up, guys. My name's Ben, and yeah, this is
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: a true crime podcast. It's Wicked and Grimm.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: Hmm doesn't get better?
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Right? What really doesn't get better? Do you want to know?
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: Do you want to know? Yeah, in like two weeks
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: or something like that one year motherfucking anniversary.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Like, holy shit, we've been podcasting for almost a year.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: That's crazy town. Great.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Well, I had on my Facebook just like a personal like,
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: you know, like a reminder thing like oh this time
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: last year's Yeah, I had the uh the logo for
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Wicked and Grim pop up on Facebook because I was
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: all like, look at what we're doing. I made this thing.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: And then yeah, I was like, oh fuck.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: And we would have never in our wildest dreams expected
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: it to be this like at this point right now.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the support you guys are giving us is fucking ridiculous.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm swearing a lot right now, but like
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: it's you just can't handle I can't handle it. It's
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: how I'm getting my emotions across because our minds are blown. Guys. Yeah,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: thank you so much for all the support. We got
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: some really cool stuff coming down the pipe for one
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: year anniversary, so watch out for that.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: We're gonna plan some cool shit.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: We are.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: We got to celebrate. There's not much to celebrate. You
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: got to celebrate oprate one, your podcast like that. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: I think we're gonna are an not talking about anything
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: that we're going to do.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: Sure, I mean if you want to. Sure, we haven't decided,
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: have we No, We're kind of.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: Tossing around ideas, but there's probably going to be a
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: giveaway of sorts.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Yep. We're probably going to do a live stream of sorts,
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: our first ever live stream, some.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: Sort of live Q and a possibly you something like that.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: So yeah, look out for that. If you guys have
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: requests or suggestions and what we could do, we'd love
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: to hear it. Ably, not saying we will do it
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: for sure, but we're definitely opened to those suggestions. So
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: hit us up, let us know what you want to
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: see or hear for our one year anniversary of the podcast.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: Of Wicked and Grim.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow, one wicked year Hey, oh shit, that'd be
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: a cool fucking thing that's actually really cool. One wicked year.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: I just came up with that, your head, Wow, well done.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Look at me. I deserve a pat on the back,
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: you do.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe that's what happens when you're not drinking beer.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: Maybe you have ideas.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: I got to present today, so I need to not
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: have consumption of alcohol consistently throughout me listening. I got
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: to actually speak words.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: I'm drinking a peach cider that's actually made in Camlip
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: Specie and it's freakin delish nice.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: I'm drinking water good for you, too, good for but
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: because I'm a child, I'm drinking it through a straw.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: You love straw straws. We got to thank some Patreons
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: Patreon supporters who do we got your I'm going.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: To thank them. Yeah, so you've got Beth Sanchez love
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: that last name. Yeah, Wendy Moon, Roxane Rocks, Sane, Annie Winter,
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: and Caitlin Black.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: You guys are absolutely amazing. Thank you so much for
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: saving me for Patreon and supporting us.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's just it's an amazing way to support us,
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: like it just warms my heart.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Well, and being able to actually communicate with our patrons.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: Over on Patreon is pretty cool too, so.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well yeah that one. If I have time
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: to answer comments, I'm going to go on there before anything.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: Else, so they get our top priority because they're just
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: that awesome and support us. Now that you guys out
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: there who aren't a Patreon aren't awesome, you on percent are,
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: so don't think that. We don't think otherwise.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: We just think everyone's awesome.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: Hell yeah, yeah, especially our badass of the goodness.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: This is so exciting.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: So if you remember a couple episodes back, we were
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: all like, whoever goes out and purchases one of our
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: blankets for our merch blanket and sends us a photo,
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: the first person to do so is our official badass
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: of the day.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: So and we got one.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: We had someone send us a photo of them with
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: their wiket and grim blanket, and they are our official
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: badass of the day. Going out to Meghan Dylann or Dallan.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry if I passed your name wrong, but Megan,
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: you are awesome. The photo of that is going to
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: go up on Facebook and Instagram because you are just
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: that oh my god ass.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well she beat me to it. I was going
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: to buy a blanket, so I could be the badass
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: of the day. She was on it, so so she
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: deserves it, are the badass of the day. Absolutely, what
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: else we got?
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: What about? What do we got to talk about? Anything else?
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: Oh? Goodness. We had one other thing, and that is
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: that we have officially switched over from anchor to a cast.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: Yes, it took us a while because it take us
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: a bit of time. Our daily life is just so busy,
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: so that there were some hiccups and it took us
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: a long time to work out those hiccups. But we've
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: got it figured out. So what that means is that
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: we're going to be available on a few more platforms
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: out there to listen on to. So we're still available
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: on Spotify, Apple Podcast, all that sort of stuff. We're
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: crossing our fingers to make sure that the transition is smooth. Yeah,
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: because when we upload this episode, there's a small chance
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: that it doesn't upload to Spotify and all that stuff
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: right away. If it doesn't, we're gonna be on it.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: We're going to fix it.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: It will get fixed for sure.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: But we're going to be on a few more new
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: platforms and we are going to be starting some advertisements,
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: so in that way we can get a little bit
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: of money coming in from from doing these because we
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: put a lot and a lot of effort into these,
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: and it'd be amazing if we could one day chase
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: it and do this full time.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that's like the dream.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: That would be the dream.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: Would one hundred and ten percent of the dream. But
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: then yeah, if you are a patron though you post them,
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: we'll post them on their ads free, So if ads
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: like doesn't follow your boat, then you could become a
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: patron boom and just like that. Yeah, that's exciting stuff though.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: It is, And I think what was our last episode,
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: sixtieth episodes, We've done sixty ad free episodes.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: So far, which is actually pretty dope.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: It is.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So honestly, I don't know, I'm just like so
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: excited that at this point we're like a year in
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: and we're already have like I don't know, signed with
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: a network and stuff like that.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: Is it's incredible. Wow, And we have nothing but you
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: guys to thank for it, so thank you so much.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: We would not be here without you.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: You guys are wicked, wickedly awesome and you made our
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: first year one wicked year I love that.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: I love that. That is dope. And I just realized
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: you're wearing a Jacko shirt. Well done, Yeah, I am.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: I did not get the dress code.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: For your wearing a Cinderella shirt.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That says I'm on my way and I'm in bed.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Glorious. Very representative of who we are, I think.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: Hmm.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: Okay, So you ready to buckle down and talk about
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: today's episode?
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: I am. I'm pretty pumped for this one, actually so,
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: because I don't know a lot about it.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: Our patrons got a heads up on what this one was.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: And then of course we did the clue over on
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: Instagram and Facebook. Some of you guys got it right
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: over there. And of course thank you to the patrons
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: for not not a letting the cat out of the
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: bad and keeping it secret. You guys are awesome for that.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: I never even thought that they Yeah, they don't. Well,
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: thank you.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So this is the Black Dahlia, the infamous Black Dahlia.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: And for anyone out there listening, this is going to
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: be a two parter. So if you really want to
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: listen to it all in one part, maybe wait for
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: the second part to come out. But this is a doozy.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: There is like no way this can be done in
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: one episode because there is a lot to go through.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you've been spending a lot of time on this case,
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: that's for sure.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So let's buckle down and let's get right into it.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: You ready, I'm totally ready. I'm pumped.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: Okay. So it all started at around ten am on
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  Speaker 1: January fifteenth, nineteen forty seven, a woman by the name
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: of Betty Bursinger was walking and pushing her young daughter
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: in a stroller while she was on her way to
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: a cobbler to have shoes repaired. As they strolled down
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: the sidewalk in the thirty eight hundred block of Norton
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  Speaker 1: Street in Leemurt Park, Los Angeles, she caught a glimpse
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: of what appeared to be a broken department store mannekin
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  Speaker 1: lying in the weeds on the side of the street.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: The top half had been separated from the lower half,
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: and as she approached the mannequin, the woman quickly realized
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: that the dull, white plaster mannequin was actually the pale,
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  Speaker 1: lifeless skin of a nude woman whose body had been mutilated.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: The woman quickly went to the nearest to the nearest
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: home to call and contact authorities, who arrived on the
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: scene to begin the investigation. And this is where the
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: story of the Black Dahlia begins.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: Wow, so had Okay, that's just like so innocent that
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: you just like think that it's a mannequin. Yeah, and
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: then as you approach that it's like a fucking human.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely not a mannequin. So you don't know much
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: about this case. What do you know about this case?
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: That that's it?
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: I know, I don't know how I've lived this long?
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, Well you're about to learn a lot more
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: because this goes deep. So the woman's body lay on
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: the grass in an odd fashion. She was, of course
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: newt as I had mentioned, her lower half being cut
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: from her top half at the waist. Her top half
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: laid about a foot away from her bottoms, with her
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: arms extended above her head bent almost in like a
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: flexing muscle type pose. But she wasn't clearly wasn't flexing right,
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: but just kind of like in that arms up pose.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: She had obvious signs of other mutilation, including one of
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: the most notable her mouth. She had lacerations extending from
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: the corner of her mouth going upwards to her ears,
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: approximately three inches long on each side, an injury which
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: is also known as the Glasgow smile.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: Good lord, Okay, because like whoever did this to her,
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: like there was some serious like either the person was
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: completely psychotic or just like hated her with a fiery passion. Yeah,
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: because that's sentence.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's there's a lot of theories about that.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: So wow.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and actually, well, kind of what you said there
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: starts one of their the authorities what they go looking
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: for and what they say. Okay, here's like the description
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: of who are looking for sort of thing that's kind
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: of along the same lines, like, Okay, someone didn't like her,
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: someone knew her and didn't like her, and did this
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: specifically targeted to her. So that's kind of what they
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: were set out looking for in their their prime suspect.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: Case quickly garnished variety within new sources and was, as
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: per many other cases around the world, you know, given
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: a nickname, and this unknown victim was dubbed the Black Dahlia. Now,
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: there are mixed reports and how the name actually came
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: into existence, but one of the more notifiable ones says
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: it was from from the staff and patrons at a
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: Long Beach drug store in the mid nineteen forty six,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: as the wordplay of the film had just been released,
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: called the Blue Dahlia. Sorry, so it's kind of playing
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: off that, okay. Some of the other origins make mention
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: of her black hair, her clothes that she wore, and
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: even the idea of her adorning a dahlia flower in
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: her hair. Many of these were actual references to more
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: personal things about the women, personal things that they would
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: find out once authorities actually identified who she was.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: Did she have a flower in her hair? Sorry at
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: the time.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: No, not at the time, but.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: It just was part of who she kind of.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: Was, reportedly a part of who she was. I couldn't
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: I ever find any reports on her ever actually wearing
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: a dahlia in her hair or a flower in her hair,
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: but apparently I'm sure maybe she wore a flower in
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: hair once or twice or something, but whether it was
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: a thing, I could not find that.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so they did actually manage to identify who she
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: was after shortly opening the case, which is good. The
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: Black Dahlia turned out to be the woman by the
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: name of Elizabeth Short, and they were able to identify
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: her via fingerprints. It may have been a harder time
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: figuring out who she was actually if it wasn't for
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: a prior incident where she was actually arrested for underage drinking.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, So she had her fingerprints on file and
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: luckily enough they were able to get a match pretty quick.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So it wasn't for that, it would have taken
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: much longer.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I'm sure family might have identified her sort
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: of soon enough or whatever, but missing reports sort of thing, right,
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: But needless to say, it was a quick process. They
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: managed to identify her fast. Now we're going to go
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: back a little bit here. I'm gonna start talking about
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Elizabeth's backstory and who she was.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: Good. So.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: Elizabeth was born in July twenty ninth, nineteen twenty four,
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: in Boston, Massachusetts, the third of five daughters. Her parents
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: were father Cleo Short, and mother Phoebe Sawyer. In nineteen
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: twenty seven, the Short family briefly relocated to Portland, Maine,
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: before settling in Medford, Massachusetts. Cleo had built a miniature
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: had built miniature golf courses. I was gonna say, golf,
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: that's super fun, right, that'd be a dope job.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like that's her dad. Yeah, that is so fun.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: I know I want that job, no kidding.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: Being like, yeah, I'm just gonna go build another course
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: today and be like have a hole in one.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: Uh huh. Or I have to test this shit like
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: that's like the best.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: Darn you know, we gotta quality test this course today.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: Shucks up.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: So anyways, he built these miniature golf courses until unfortunately
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: he lost his savings in the historical nineteen twenty nine
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: stock market crash.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: Dang.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: And then in the nineteen thirties, his car was found
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: sitting on the Charleston Bridge. It seemed like many other
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: people during the stock market crash, just like them before,
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: Cleo had lost too much and took his own life
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: by leaping off the bridge into the Charles River.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: Dang. That's really fucking sad.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so they only found his car sitting there, unfortunately.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: Dang.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: But life goes on right unfortunately. So Elizabeth's mother, Phoebe,
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: began working as a bookkeeper to support the family, which
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: wasn't easy as a single parent of five. I can't
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: imagine having five daughters running around home and trying to
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: support and look after them all. On my own, whether
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: it's monetary or not, just emotionally having the capability of
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: carrying for five young kids.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: Holy fuck the poor thing. Yeah, it must have been exhausted. Yeah,
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: that makes me want to refill my drink.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: I I get exhausted, but our two dogs at times, huh.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: I get exhausted with you at times.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: Wow, love you too, Thanks.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: I do love you, But man, you exhausting sometimes. I'm
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: sure I'm exhausting at times too. So holy shit, you
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: are you pouring another drink?
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I already feel like I need more alcohol.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: Just because I said you're exhausting.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: I don't know. This is just an exhausting conversation.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: Well, it's an exhausting case. So in some years later,
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: Elizabeth underwent lung surgery at the age of fifteen due
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: to bronchitis and severe asthma. Holy man, after which doctor
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: suggested that she relocate to at least spend more time
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: in a milder climate. So, whether it was permanent or temporary,
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: they suggested she spend more time somewhere warmer.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: Can someone suggests that to me, right, please.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: Be like, you've got a bad case of needing to
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: go to Mexico?
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: And drink tequila or needing to just move to like
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: Hawaii somewhere. A lot of freaking warmer on this Doc Dishaustis.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: I'd be like, hey, no kidding, well, I mean she
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: at least had a medical.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: Reason, I know. I just yeah, it.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: Was to prevent further respiratory problem.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: We're in the thicker winter, and that just sounds real
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: nice to me right now.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that would just be for us to further prevent
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: our face hurting from the air now you go, and
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: our toes from freezing off as we walk. Anyways, Elizabeth
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: would spend winters in Miami, Florida with family and friends
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: over the next three years, as per doctor's orders.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: Nice.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: As time moved on, the family had adapted, and it
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: was in the late nineteen forties when a letter arrived
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: to Phoebe. It was from Cleo.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: What okay, I'm like shocked.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: It was an apology letter where he revealed that he
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: was in fact alive and started a new life in California.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: What the shit?
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: He faked his own death?
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Okay, I was not expecting that. Actually when he first
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: told me that, like he jumped us like, oh, like
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: maybe that he'll come back. But like then I was like, no,
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: what how long had this been?
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: Sorry between true? That would have been she like eight
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: ninety or something like that. Whoa because when he left
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: Elizabeth was I believe six, and she was like, oh,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: she would have been older. She should have eighteen when
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: he came back, so longer twelve?
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: You're autually shit. So what the fuck was in this note?
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: It must it better have been real good, because that's bad.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: That's bad, you think, Well, it didn't sit well with
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: the family. Clear wasn't much of a father or husband
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: to any of them. While he was around, and just
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: running away like that, it didn't make them think much
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: more of him. So an apology letter and a second
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: chance wasn't necessarily in the forefront of anyone's mind when
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: they received this letter. That is, except Elizabeth.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Oh she's a good person.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: She was eager to go spend time with her dad
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: and learn who he was and get over it all.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: Seriously, Yeah, holy, that shows a lot of her character.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: So that December, at age eighteen, Elizabeth moved to California
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: to live with her father, whom she had not seen
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: until since he left when she was six. Now it
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: was a romanticized reunion a bit, you know, it's very
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: luss you know of like my father's back in my life,
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: he wants to see me, all this sort of stuff.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: And the following year, arguments between the two of them
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: led her to actually move out on January nineteen forty three.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: So it didn't last very long.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: It didn't last very long. And I'm not too sure
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: if he was like out of the picture permanently again
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: or if they fought terribly. I just she was there
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: for about a year and arguments caused her to move out.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: That's about the extent that I could find. And it's
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: not really a lot of important information, but it's just
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: kind of building up who Elizabeth became and who she
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: was and what her backstory is. So it's a little
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: bit important to understand.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: But well, ionestly think that's super impressive. Yeah, no kidding,
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: because I'm pretty sure I'd have been like yeah bye, yeah.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Well it shows right there that she's a super trusting person, right,
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: and super nice yeah, and super forgiving.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: So she was now on her own though, when she
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: moved to Santa Barbara. It was there where she was
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: arrested on September twenty third, nineteen forty three for drinking
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: at a local bar while under age. Now the juvenile
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: authority sent her back to Massachusetts, but instead she went
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: back to Florida, making only occasional visits to visit her
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: family in Massachusetts. So while spending your days in Florida,
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: Elizabeth met Major Matthew Michael Gordon, Junior, who was a
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: decorated Army Air Force officer of the second Air Commando
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: Group who was training for deployment in World War Two.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: They quickly fell in love and spent some time together,
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: spent as much time as they could together. In fact,
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: even while away, they would send letters back in Fourth
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: in ways that I could only imagine would be like
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: the most stereotypical, amazing love letters, like through war just.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: Saying, really what went through my mind? Love letters?
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: I want to read one exactly. I'm pretty sure those
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: are kept fairly personal. I'm sure we could if we
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: really dug we might be able to find them, but they.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: Should probably be kept that way though exactly.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: Gordon was held up at hospital at one point, actually
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: from a plane crash, and it made their letter writing
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: all the more abundant. Elizabeth later told friends that Gordon
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: had written a letter and promised to propose to her
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: once he recovered and returned home. However, Gordon would never
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: make it home for the proposal. He died in a
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: second plane crash on August tenth, nineteen forty five, less
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: than a week before the end of the war. No
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: I know, right why, I don't know? She gotten plane
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: crash and that's all she wrote. Unfortunately, Uh, because.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: I feel like this whole story would probably have been
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: different if that didn't happen. Am I right?
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: It could have been very much so, very much so.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: Dang fate has a funny way of doing some fickle
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: things to her lives.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: But I just feel like Elizabeth deserved better karma than that,
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: Not that it's karma, but it's just like she's a
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: good person. Yeah, let her have the love of her life.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: Well, she unfortunately didn't have this one. Maybe there was
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: another to be the love of her life.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: We don't know, let's find out.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: Well. After that, she spent most of her time in
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: la where she got an apartment behind a nightclub of
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: one of the on Sorry on the famous Hollywood Boulevard.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: She worked as a waitress and apparently had begun to
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: dream of being a film star. Now reports may say
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: that she was an aspiring actress, they cannot be confirmed.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: I want to just clarify that now. It's merely hearsay
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: that she was wanting to be an actress. She had
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: no actual acting jobs or credits or anything to help
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: confirm it. It's very life that she was. It's not
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: far fetched that a young woman living in their lights
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: of Hollywood would you have a career? Right, So not
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: at all. It's more than likely, but there are no
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: confirmations of it. Now where did I leave off here?
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: Uh? Do do?
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: Okay? Yes? Now, whether she did dream of it or not,
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: in a roundabout way, she would actually get her stardom
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: as Elizabeth would become the infamous Black Dahlia.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: So oh, I hate that. I thought you were going
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: to say, oh, something happened cool to her prior to but.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: Nope, Whether she was looking for stardom or not, she
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: did get it in the end.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: How old was she when she died? Have you mentioned
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: that story? You know?
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: I'm not too sure the exact age I think she
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: would have been. I talked about it later on. I
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: think twenty two.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, so it's not old at all. No, dang it.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: So I already hate this story.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: It's not a fun story.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: Okay, okay, So we are back.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: Now that's the history of the Black Dahlia or Elizabeth
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: Short and now we are back to where she was
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: found and when she was found. At first, the news
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: media is referred to the case as quote unquote were
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: wolf murder because of how the body was mutilated, but
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: soon newspapers would double Elizabeth the Black Dahlia. The mutilation
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: of her body was far more than just being severed
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: or cut with some slices in her cheeks. There are
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: multiple lacerations of her mid forehead, on the right side
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: of her forehead and the top of the head in
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: the midline. There are multiple tiny abrasions and lacerations all over.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: Her body is completely severed, not by a cut or
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: a hack, but by a clean, surgical like incision which
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: is almost straight through the abdomen.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: And that means it's some one like a professional would have.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: Done that, pretty much someone who knew what they were doing,
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: because it's showing like there's no signs of hacking at
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: the bone. There's no chips out of the bone in
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: her spine. It's precisely cut wow, correctly through the tissue
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: in a manner to not cause damage.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: Not many people would be able to do.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: That correct Someone who knew what they were doing did that.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: God how they knew what they were doing is up
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: for question and debate. But someone did know what they
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: were doing. Because there's a question of maybe a butcher
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: or maybe a surgeon.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: You know, yeah, I went to surgeon, but I guess
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: it could be someone else.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: A butcher too, for sure, So thank Dexter, right. I
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: mean he was no surgeon, but he certainly knew what
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: he was doing.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: He was skilled.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: Ye, man, I love that man.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: Why do we love him?
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: He's just awesome.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: Iol.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: So moving on. There are multiple Chris Cross lacerations in
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: the pubic area which extend through the skin and soft tissue.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: There were ligature marks on her ankles, wrists, and neck,
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: and an irregular laceration with superficial tissue loss on her
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: right breast. There are lacerations on the intestines and kidneys.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: The uterus shows no sign of pregnancy, but the tubes,
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: ovaries and cul de sac whatever that is. I didn't
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: google it because this is enough to take in as
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: it is, but they were intact within the vagina and
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: higher up there is lying a loose piece of skin
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: with fat and tissue attached. On this piece of loose
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: skin there is several criss crossing lacerations as well. Now
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: smears have been taken both in both cavities of vaginal
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: and anal as her anal cavity is marked dilated and
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: opening two measures of one and a quarter inches in diameter,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: multiple abrasions at not pretty. The stomach is filled with
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: a greenish brown granular matter, mostly fecal and some other
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: unidentified things as well. All smears that were taken for
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: sperm came back negative. It appears as though many of
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: the lacerations, including the dilation of the anal opening, were
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: all done after death.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: That's a lot of shit.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: That's a lot to take in.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: Wow, a lot, just a lot done to this poor girl. Yes, wow, okay,
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: still absorbing that and I wish I wasn't.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: Well, we're not quite done.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, I definitely thought that was the end.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: Nope, we're not quite done. So she had clearly been
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: posed in a strange and deliberate manner, like I had said,
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: with her eggs spread, her torso separated arms above her head,
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: and as I had mentioned, she was found nude. Finally,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: with all this, there was no blood to be found.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: Oh so she was put there?
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah she was.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: I guess that makes sense.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: Her pale white skin and lack of blood shows that
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: her blood had been drained Oh wow, prior to being
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: put there, and she had been carefully washed oh before
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: being placed in the grass to be found.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's really disturbing. Yeah, I hate that, like when
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: people clean up the body. I don't know, Like that's
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: just really disturbing.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: Okay, well, why do you what about that? Do you
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: specifically hate? Why is that disturbing?
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know, because it just like makes it a
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: lot more like personal personal in a sense.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: It does, it really does.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: Because it's just like I don't know why, Like it
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: was so thought through really and like they needed to
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: clean up their me and like, I don't know, it's
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: just so personal for me.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: It shows that they're not done with this person. Killing
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: them isn't enough. They have to do more. Yeah, and
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: whatever that more is. I can't wrap my brain around.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: So it's a really scary thing because I can I
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: personally don't get it, but I can understand someone just
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: getting overcome with rage and killing or something. Not that
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: it's cool, but I can get that that happens, I
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: don't get the extent of afterwards, yeah, because you would
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: think after the act, like there's that cool down or something,
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: and it takes cool down to do these sort of
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: meticulous things like clean a body. So now you don't
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: just have a raged person killing, you have a calm
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: person handling someone's body, right, like our case.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: Price to this was all that.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: So disturbing, yep.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, So the marks found on Elizabeth's body suggested that
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: she had been bound, tortured, and her official cause of
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: death was cerebral hemorrhaging and shock, which would have been
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: caused by blows to the head.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: Really, yes, oh my goodness. I thought it was gonna
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: be strangulation, which is no better really, but I don't know,
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: just hitting someone in the head like how they die
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: is horrific.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she was legend or beat one of the two.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: So that's not cool.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: So like, I'm like certain that this person really knew her? Well,
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: you think so? I think so. Unless there was a
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: lot of other surgically cut bodies found and it was
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: a freaking serial killer on the loose, but I don't
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: think that's the case.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: There's a theory kind of along that line, but the
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: the surgical part doesn't really fall in. Okay, So anyways,
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: we'll touch on that later.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: Well, this would just be like a super emo. I'm
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: just saying, yes.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: So, the Los Angeles Police Department estimated that since the murder,
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: they have received and I mean like up to this day,
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: like since then to now, they have received over five
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: hundred fame seekers falsely confessing to the grisly murders of Elizabeth.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's just pathetic, it is.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: There was a waiter who phoned the police saying that
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: he has guilty. Conscience forced him to confess. A couple
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: of hours later, a woman claimed Elizabeth stole her man,
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: so she killed her in retaliation. Then there was an
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: army corporal who swore he chopped her up with a cleaver.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: The only problem was he was in New Jersey at
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: the time of the murder and there was no cleaver
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: involved in the killing. So okay, all people who for
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: whatever reason, wanting their names attached to a horrific crime
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: and being known as the one responsible with the black dot.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: Basically that is another thing I cannot comprehend.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: That's fucked up.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: That happens in so many cases, Like I don't understand
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: why people would want to be associated with that, Like
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: is their life that like boring that they feel like
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: they need to excite it by this.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: I don't know for whatever reason they need that notoriety
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: or they want it. I don't get it.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: I don't get that. I really don't get that.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: I can understand like someone maybe having some mental health issues.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: Something like that, I could get that.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: But just being like you know what, I want to
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: take that credit, that's fucking not cool.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: That's super weird. And just like the amount of resources
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: it wastes and time is ridiculous, well five hundred false
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: and they had to look into those right, every single one. Yeah, So.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: Authorities believe that the real killer must have been known
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: to Elizabeth. They must have known her, just like you.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: Say, I completely agree with that.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: They figured that they must have had some sort of
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: emotional attachment to her, and somehow the horrific violence inflicted
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: upon her and her body and leaving her in public
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: was a on public display, sorry would indicate that the
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: killer wanted the world to see Elizabeth and potentially her
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: wrongdoings for what she had done to this person. So
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: they believe that it's kind of a way of this
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: person being like putting her on display and being like,
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: look at this bitch, look what she did to me.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: She deserved this. I sort of.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: What you would possibly do to deserve something like that.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: I don't think you can do anything to deserve something
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: like that. There's way unless you are out there like
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: mass murdering other people. But not that you deserve that.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: But you know what I mean, I know that's horrific.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: So the killer was assumed and described as a white
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: male in his late twenties or older with a high
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: school education. He lives alone, works with his hands, and
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: is comfortable with knives and blood. Possibly a butcher or
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: slaughterhouse worker. Potentially even a doctor.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: So that would be a lot of blood that you
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: would be dealing with. Oh yeah, like that's disgusting.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: Well, it says right here too. With a high school education,
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: So you're talking about people in the forties, So high
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: school education. That's a well educated.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: Individual, right, Okay, so they.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: Are looking for someone well educated.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: Now, on January twenty second, exactly one week after discovering
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: Elizabeth's body, a man called the editor of the Los
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: Angeles Examiner. He called James Richardson and made a very
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: bold claim. The caller never gave a name, but he
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: told Richardson he was the one responsible for Elizabeth's death.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: He stated he planned on eventually turning himself in, but
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: not before allowing police to pursue him Further. I did
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: manage to find some quotes from said call, and it
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: goes like this, I will send you some of the
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: things she had with her when she shall, we say, disappeared.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: Expect some of the souvenirs Beth Short or sorry, expect
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: some souvenirs of Beth Short in the mail.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: Weird. Now they a game.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: Take note of this here because this is potentially a
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: piece of evidence, specifically within this Okay, calling Elizabeth Beth.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, Okay, so that's what this person called her.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: That's what this person called her. That's quote so that Beth.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: Some people rely on that for their theories later on,
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: at least for one case that I've looked into.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: Well, that to me, like I think, like family friend,
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: like really good friend, or like significant other.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: So yeah, anyways, that aside just keep that in your mind.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: It was three days later when the caller kept his word,
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: and a mysterious Manila envelope showed up to the address
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: to the Los Angeles Examiner and other Los Angeles papers. Sorry,
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: it showed up to the address and showed up addressed too.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: That's what I meant to say, showed up addressed to
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: the Los Angeles Examiner and other Los Angeles reporters. There
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: we go. That took way too much effort to get out.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: But I got it.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: You did good.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: I done. Didn't do it. The envelope and its contents
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: had been smeared in gasoline to remove any evidence of
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: fingerprints that might remain. Even with gasoline, though, they were
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: able to recover some fingerprints and quickly sent them off
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: to try and find a match. However, there's always a
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: fucking however. However, goddamn however, the prints were compromised in transit,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: thus they could not properly be analyzed.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: What the frig Okay? Okay, So I just have to
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: say two things. It's so interesting that this person would
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: not be wearing gloves or bo was singerprints taking not
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: a huge deal.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: Back then, fingerprints was the main source of convicting back
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: then for sure.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: And then it just I don't know. I always think,
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: like cases this old, how interesting it would be, but
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: happened nowadays, like with the technology and stall he had, right, Yeah,
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: no kidding, like, oh, I just always think that's so sad.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: So Inside the envelope, though, was a note attached to
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: the contents. The note had been written in letters that
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: were cut from newspapers and articles and then pasted in
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: for the writing. It read, here is the Dahlia's belongings
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: letter to follow. The package contained newspaper clippings about the
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: recent death of Mayor Matthew Gordon, photographs, her birth certificate,
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: a bus station check in stub, and address book. The
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: address book bore the name Mark Hansen on the cover
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: and drew most of the attention. Police had actually already
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: questioned Mark a week prior during routine inquiries. Mark was
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: a wealthy local nightclub and theater owner, and Elizabeth had
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: previously lived at Mark's home for a while while she
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: shared a room with his then girlfriend, an actress named
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: Anne Toth. Hmmm, you're following along so far?
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: I am, Yeah, this is all very interesting.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: It's like I say this goes deep. Now. Under questioning,
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: Mark admitted to knowing Elizabeth, but stated he had never
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: been romantically involved with her and had no information about
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: her disappearance. He did state that Elizabeth had taken the
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: address book from him, although he had never used it himself.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: Nothing was ever found to link Mark Hanson to the
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: murder of Elizabeth, and was soon released.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: I wonder why she would take the notebook. That's interesting.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: She needed an address book, he had one he wasn't using,
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: so she yoinked it.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: Oh okay. I was envisioning that it was like an
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: address book filled with like his contacts and stuff.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: No, he specifically said that it was let me see where.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: He stated that Elizabeth had taken the address book from him,
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: although he had never used it himself.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, well that makes sense then, yeah.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: Blank address book he'd never used, so she just okay,
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: he had no problem with it. Makes sense whatever. Now.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: On January twenty six, another letter had come in, this
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: time handwritten, which read here it is turning in Wednesday,
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: January twenty ninth, ten am had my fun at police
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: black Dahlia Avenger.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: Jeez, I don't like this person. What a piece of shit?
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: Oh this person is a piece of shit. Now there
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: are I'm gonna throw this out there just to keep
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: you in the loop on this. There are some speculation
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: of whether the letters are completely valid. I mean, clearly
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: one having evidence of her is. But authorities definitely received
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: more letters false letters used to say that this one
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: couldn't be a false letter too, right, Yeah, they.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: Could honestly just be someone having fun too. So whether
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: it seem to like to waste other people's.
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: Time, yeah, they were, I mean they were. They're pretty
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: confident they were able to distinguish the fake ones from
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: the real ones. Oh okay, so, but I mean there
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: is a chance I just wanted to throw that in there, right. So.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: The letter also named a place, a specific location at
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: which the supposed killer would turn themselves in. Police waited
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: patiently at the given location on the morning of January
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: twenty ninth, as described, but the alleged killer did not appear. Instead,
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: at one pm, another cut and paste letter which read
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: have changed my mind you would not give me a
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: square deal. Dahlia killing was justified and the murderer was
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: still on the loose. Now there are there are some
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: more letters that the police did receive that are verified
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: like by the killer. Sorry, okay, not verified by the killer,
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: but like considered authentic. There we go, right, Yeah, I
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: think there was about like eight or ten that they received,
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: and in one of them, he was actually requesting, like,
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: you know, if I turned myself in, you guys can
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: only give me like ten years. How's that as a
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: deal sort of thing?
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, so definitely deserves way more than ten years,
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: because this is crazy what he did.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so police were like clearly not taken that, and
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: he didn't take likely to that, so he didn't turn
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: himself into.
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: They glide they should have.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: Newspapers began linking other murders to the Black Dahlia case.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: Many thought the so called lipstick murder was connected, since
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: a badly beaten female body was found with a bizarre
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: message scrawled on the victim's stomach in red lipstick that
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: read fuck U b D. It was assumed that the
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: bead stood for Black Dahlia. That, however, is a whole
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: nother story in case.
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: Okay, sorry, sorry, she didn't like Elizabeth Beth didn't have
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: lipstick on her. No, another murder had that on them. Yes,
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, so.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: That woman's body was also brutally mutilated, though as far
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: as I have looked into that case, I haven't looked
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: into it very deep yet. But as far as I
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: have looked into, not with the precision of this one
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: not as clean as this one. But it did have
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: fuck you BD in the lipstick, and that b D
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: assuming you stand for black Dahlia. So that's why some
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: people believe that this would be linked. Interesting, well, like
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: I said, that's a whole nother story of a man
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: by the name of William George Hearns who actually confessed
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: to the crime under unfortunately police torture, and was subsequently
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: and controversially convicted of the three murders for the lipstick
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: murders in nineteen forty six. So some people still believe
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: that they could be linked, and they got the wrong
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: guy because I mean, torture confession ain't really that accurate.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: Like, okay, so he's linked, or he got convicted for
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: the lip stick murders and Elizabeth, No, just the lipstick murders, okay,
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: but he confessed to them under police torture to stick ones.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's a whole nother story though. But some
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: people believe that whoever killed Elizabeth and is responsible for
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: the Black Dahlia murder, is also responsible to that. And
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: they believe that that fuck YOUBD is proof and the
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: link of that.
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: And they believe that the person they have is potentially
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: not the right person, correct, okay?
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: Or I mean maybe there's some that potentially think that
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: he was responsible for Elizabeth too. I don't know that.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: Like I say, that's a whole nother case totally now.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: March fourteenth, an apparent suicide note scrawledon pencil on a
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: bit of paper was found tucked into the shoe in
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: a pile of men's clothing by the ocean's edge at
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: the foot of Breeze Avenue in Venice. The note read,
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: to whom it may concern, I have waited for police
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: to capture me for the Black Dahlia killing, but have not.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: I am too much of a to turn myself in,
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: so this is the best way out for me. I
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: couldn't help myself for that or this? Sorry Mary?
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: Sorry Mary? Is that the mom? Or who's Mary? I
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: can't remember who Mary is?
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: We don't know.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: The clothing that they found gave no clues to the
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: identity of the owner, and nothing else has ever come
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: of this suicide note.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: Wow, Okay, there's like so many levels to this. Oh,
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: this is unbelievable.
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: We just getting started seriously.
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, okay, because I just feel like we're just like,
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: I don't know, I feel like I'm like a fucking
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: roller coaster that's just going up and down and over
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: and blah blah blah blah blah.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: Oh and underground in the sky, like to another dimension.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: Holy crap.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: Okay, So, in the coming weeks, Los Angeles Police Department
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: interviewed over one hundred and fifty men who they believe
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: to be potential suspects. I believe seventy five of them
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: were from the address book alone.
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: Jeez.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: It was from people who knew Elizabeth named from the
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: address book or anyone they could link from their investigation.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: It's a lot of people to have in your address book.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: I feel like I have like five people.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: Well back then, though, like you don't have like your contacts,
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: your phone, all that sort of Facebook and Instagram. Yeah, so,
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: I mean that's how you kept the whole event. I
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: remember growing up, my parents had a little phone index
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: everyone's numbers and stuff in it, and it's like they
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: had a lot of people in there like a lot.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: That's how you remembered.
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it could be.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: Are you saying your parents are really popular?
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: No, I'm saying my parents are really old, like really old.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: Oh it would be a while to really listen to
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: this and we'll hear it. Yeah, we'll they'll be even
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: older than.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: One of the people they did interview was Robert Manly,
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: who had been one of the last people to see
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: Elizabeth live. Robert Manley also goes by the name Robert
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: Red Manly. For the record, I just want to throw
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: it out there. I'll be calling him Robert the rest
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: of this. He is considered by many to be a
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: prime suspect to this day.
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: Okay, so let's.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: Get into this. Their relationship started when Robert struck up
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: a conversation with Elizabeth at a bus station in San Diego. Now,
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: according to Robert, Elizabeth at first kind of just tried
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: to ignore him and brush him off and didn't speak back.
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: But after he kind of persisted, she talked with him
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: and they ended up, you know, kind of striking up
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: a bit of a relationship. And from there their relationship
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: began to grow and they began platonically seeing each other regularly. Now,
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: Robert was married and Elizabeth had been seeing someone else recently,
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: but still they wouldn't They wouldn't stop them from going
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: out for dinner and enjoying each other's company. Whenever Robert
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: was in San Diego, he would just go there and
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: enjoy the time with her. Now, this went on over
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: the course of a month or so before one night,
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: Elizabeth called Robert and asked if he could come pick
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: her up. So he did. He picked up Elizabeth and
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: they stayed together in a hotel that night before hitting
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: the road back to Los Angeles. Now, Robert went on
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: the record telling this story and specifically said that they
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: stayed that night in the hotel platonically. They are platonic friends. Now,
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: Elizabeth wanted Robert to come pick her up because of
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: falling out with her boyfriend. Okay, and at twelve twenty
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: pm on January ninth, nineteen forty seven, Elizabeth and Robert
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: left the motel where they spent the night, and they
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: drove back to La During the drive, Robert noticed some
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: scratches on Elizabeth's arm and asked about them. She spun
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: a tale of the intensely jealous boyfriend an Italian with
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: black hair who lived in San Diego and claimed that
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: it was he who scratched her. They continued the drive,
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: where they ended up in la and at the Baltimore Hotel.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: The main lobby was an Olive Street directly opposite Pershing Square.
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: Elizabeth thanked Robert for all his help. He was a gentleman,
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: and he was a platonic friend.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: Look sounds like a good friend far.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: Anyway, he paid for meals and for the room for her,
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: and then he left her there and took off.
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: That would be like pretty hard to explain to your wife,
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: though definitely now they're a little hard there.
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: I didn't want to dive into this too much because
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: it was kind of like just excess information that wasn't important.
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: But I guess Robert and his wife did have a
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: bit of a rocky kind of marriage sort of thing,
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: but they managed to make it work quite well. In
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: this whole situation kind of brought them a little bit
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: stronger because they were platonic and there was no cheating
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: sort of thing. Yeah, that's a whole unnecessary story. So
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: Robert did leave her there at the Baltimore Hotel at
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: approximately six thirty pm. This was the last time Elizabeth
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: was ever seen alive.
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: Why was she dropped off at the hotel?
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: She needed a place to stay. She was currently living
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: in San Diego with her oh right, okay for that month.
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: For some reason, I thought she was Okay, I get it.
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: So she was coming back to La right. She had
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: just kind of gone to San Diego for like, I
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: don't know, a couple weeks sort of thing, and it
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: wasn't working out. So she's getting back to La right, okay,
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: and so he dropped her off at the hotel to
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: have a place to stay while she gets her shit
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: together sort of thing. Right, So he was pretty much
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: the last person to see Elizabeth alive now. Robert, however,
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: was clear to suspicion after passing numerous volunteer polygraphs. Police
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: also interviewed several people who found found listed in his
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: address book, including a man by the name of Martin Lewis,
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: who had been an acquaintance of Elizabeth. Martin was able
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: to provide an alibi for the date of Elizabeth's murder,
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: as he he was in Portland, Oregon, visiting his father
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: in law who was dying of kidney failure. Robert, who
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: had been discharged from the Army for mental disability, subsequently
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: suffered a series of mermorous breakdowns and claimed to be
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: hearing voices. As a result, he was committed to a
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: state hospital by his wife in nineteen fifty four, and
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: he died on January sixteenth, nineteen eighty six. The corner
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: attributed his death to an accidental fall. And that's pretty
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: much that's the anniversary of when she went missing, actually
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: or her death when she was found. I believe it
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: was actually Jenny fifteenth, but he died January sixteenth, so
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: it's like almost to the day, which is kind of
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: kind of crazy.
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no kidding.
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: So by the spring of nineteen forty seven, Elizabeth murder
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: had become a cold case with few new leads. Now,
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: one of the lead detectives on the case blamed the
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: press for compromising the investigation through reporters probing of details
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: and unverifieding unverified reporting. In September of nineteen forty nine,
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: the grand jury convened to discuss inadequacies in the LAPD's
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: homicide unit based on their failure to solve numerous murders,
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: especially those of women and children, in the past seven years. Specifically,
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: and one of those including elizabeths. In the aftermath of
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: the grand jury, further investigation was done on Elizabeth's past,
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: with detectives tracing her movements between Massachusetts, California, and Florida,
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: and also interviewing people who knew her in Texas and
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: New Orleans. However, the interviews yielded no new useful information
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: in the murders, and the case is left unsolved to
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: this day. That doesn't mean, though, that there aren't theories
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: and speculation of a lot of these theories are crazy, Like,
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: oh boy, there are theories. Let's just say that I'm
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: gonna hear them. Okay, well, let's talk about those theories
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: in part two next week.
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: I knew that was coming. I knew what I knew,
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: and I knew it.
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: You knew it. So that is the first half of
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: the Black Dahlia case and Elizabeth short.
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: There has to be some wild theories, like I really
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: want to dive into those, Like right now.
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: There is one main theory that is a motherfucking roller coaster.
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: Okay, well, this whole case is a motherfucker roller coaster.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: Oh it is. It definitely is. So stay tuned for
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: Part two, coming out next week on Tuesday.
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: Why, yeah, good work. That's interesting. It's quite intense.
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: It's who I gotta buckle up like four or five
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: seat belts just like researching this because man, it had
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: me going all over the place.
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: Well yeah, but it seems like it's pretty interesting. It is,
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: but like hard to put all together too, for.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: Sure, very much, so very much. This was one of
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: the harder cases for me to research because of trying
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: to actually tell a linear story is difficult with this case.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: But doing the best we can. And we're going to
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: start talking about those crazy ass stuff next episode.
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: Okay, all right, I'm ready, thanks for.
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: Listening, and guys, of course, don't forget to take a
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: look at our social media. We've got our Instagram, our Facebook,
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: all the good stuff. It's on the description of the
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: podcast wherever you're listening, just like a little description and
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: it's all there. Lazy website, Insta even have a merch
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: it's right there, right on perfect cool.
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: Okay, Well, thank you, We'll see you next week, and
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: of course stay wicked.