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Ginger Snaps with Olivia Woodward · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: On the Bechdel Cast, the questions asked if movies.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: Have women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: and husbands, or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy,
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: zeph and best start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.
• 0:16
  Speaker 3: Jamie, Kaylin, I just got the curse. What's that I'm bleeding?
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: I just got my period.
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: It's the curse.
• 0:26
  Speaker 4: I'm your little sister in the big old Wig. I'm pissed.
• 0:30
  Speaker 4: I'm pissed. I have to like, Hi, my, I know, Kaitlyn.
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: No, yeah, I don't worry. It's not contagious though.
• 0:37
  Speaker 4: This is the audio media. But I'm just all my
• 0:40
  Speaker 4: hairs in my face. I'm like, this sucks, This sucks.
• 0:43
  Speaker 4: How could you do this to me?
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: That was a great re enactment. I think, thank you
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: so much for a naturals for a natural Yeah, oh
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: my gosh. Well, anyway, this is the Bechdal Cast, and
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: my name is Caitlin Toronte.
• 0:56
  Speaker 4: My name's Jamie Loftus, and I have a tail.
• 1:00
  Speaker 5: And this is our podcast where we talk about your
• 1:04
  Speaker 5: favorite movies using an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel
• 1:10
  Speaker 5: test as a jumping off point for discussion.
• 1:12
  Speaker 4: But Kaitlyn, what the.
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: Hell is that? Oh my gosh, it's.
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: When what in the Ginger Snaps is that? I sort
• 1:20
  Speaker 4: of was like, why is this movie called that?
• 1:22
  Speaker 5: But in a way, Ginger snaps and it makes it's
• 1:26
  Speaker 5: actually kind of an incredible it's an all timer title.
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: It's actually really a good title.
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: It all makes sense. But what is the Bechdel Test?
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: It's a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel,
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace Test, as it was co
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: conceived of with Alison Bechdel and her friend Liz Wallace,
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: and it has many versions. Ours is this, do two
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: characters of a marginalized gender have names? Do they speak
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: to each other? And is there conversation about something other
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: than a man? And we like it when it's a
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: narratively substantial conversation. So for example, I just got my
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: period and it's a horrible curse.
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: Oh okay, let's kill this dog.
• 2:13
  Speaker 5: Okay, Like those are all narratively consequential in this world.
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: No need to worry about the Bechdel's house in this movie.
• 2:21
  Speaker 5: All right, that's the jumping off the boinfe But there's yeah,
• 2:24
  Speaker 5: so much more to talk about today, so I want
• 2:26
  Speaker 5: to just jump.
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: Right into it.
• 2:27
  Speaker 5: But this is again, I think we're just kind of
• 2:30
  Speaker 5: on an all timer streak recently of covering movies that
• 2:34
  Speaker 5: we've been getting requests for for.
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: Over half a decade, and we've just been.
• 2:38
  Speaker 5: Waiting for the right moment for the right guest, And
• 2:42
  Speaker 5: today we are covering Ginger Snaps with an amazing returning guest.
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: That's absolutely right. She is the cultural education coordinator for
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: Texas Native Health. She's a citizen of the Cat Donation
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: as well as a horror connoisseur. And you know her
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: from our episode on Smoke Signals. It's Olivia Woodward.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: Hello, now we know.
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: We welcome back. What is your poster? I feel like
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: horror fans have the best bedroom walls.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: You know, it's so funny. This is not my bedroom.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Me and my partner are so progressive. We have separate
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: bedrooms and the recording stuff is in his area of
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: the house.
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: Incredible, So this is his room.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: That is a poster. It's a metal poster.
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: If it's him, we don't care. Oh okay, unmort the
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: business of discussion, and you know that's so amazing.
• 3:36
  Speaker 5: That is truly my dream and because of like I
• 3:39
  Speaker 5: don't know, it says hetero programming.
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: I didn't even know. I'd never even considered that.
• 3:45
  Speaker 5: Until my friends got married and they're like, yeah, of
• 3:48
  Speaker 5: course we have our own rooms so that we still
• 3:51
  Speaker 5: love each other.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: You're like, yeah, honestly, it kind of makes me love
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: him more having my own space. Yeah, it's really under
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: a full I'm also a crazy sleeper. I don't keep
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: a good sleep schedule. I always joke on a rotisserie
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: chicken in bed because I just kind of like move
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: around throughout my sleep. I wake up making the hungry
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: because I think I'm burning calories so much to my sleep.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: So anyway, it really helps our relationship. Honestly, I think
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: it makes us closer. Being physically a distant.
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, people need distance, people need boundaries and
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: their own space. I've been saying for years that if
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: I ever end up with a partner, which we'll see,
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: but if that were to ever happen, I would want
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: separate apartments. And I know that like who can afford that?
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: But also like but if you can, but you can, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: I did.
• 4:43
  Speaker 5: I mean it's like it's of course, it's like depends
• 4:45
  Speaker 5: on how you can make this face work. But it's
• 4:47
  Speaker 5: I like the idea of when you live with someone,
• 4:49
  Speaker 5: it is still a choice to be physically together, Like,
• 4:52
  Speaker 5: it's not the like, not necessarily the compulsory thing to do.
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I love that.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: Thank you well.
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: And now Ginger Snaps.
• 5:04
  Speaker 5: Holy cow, what a damn movie, Ollivia, thank you for
• 5:07
  Speaker 5: being our guests. I know that we've been meaning to
• 5:09
  Speaker 5: do this for a while. It's the perfect time of year. Absolutely,
• 5:13
  Speaker 5: so tell us about your history with this movie.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a movie I've really enjoyed. It's definitely
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: near and dear to my heart as far as horror
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: movie goes, it's definitely one of my top five. I
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: don't know if y'all know this. This is a trilogy.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: This is the first of three. There's Ginger Snaps. Ginger
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: Snaps Unleashed is the sequel, which takes place right after
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: the first one, like the next day, I think. And
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: then there's a third one. It's a prequel called Ginger
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: Snaps Back, and that one is set two hundred years
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: in the past, and like the eighteen hundreds, it's the
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: same actresses playing sisters again. I feel like there were
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: ancestors I'm assuming, and rather than being set in like
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: a Canadian suburb, it's set at a fort and they're
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: being like hunted by a wolf pack. And I bring
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: this up, I go into detail because back in what
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: twen twenty eleven, I was being left home alone a lot,
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: and the third one, the prequel, was being shown on
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: some cable like channel all the time. So I kind
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: of got weirdly obsessed with the third one for years,
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: not knowing there were two more before it. And I
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: was actually talking to my sister about this the other
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: day and I thought she told me about the first one.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: She says, I told her about the first one, So
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: at some point, because she's also a horror connoisseur, this
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: is a huge thing we bond over either way. At
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: some point in high school I rented it from Red
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: Box and loved it and show it to all of
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: my friends. There aren't a ton of good were wolf movies,
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: because you know, there's horror, and then there's like all
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: the sub genres, right, and there's creature feature but separately
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: specifically were wolf. And this is not my most like
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: favorite werewolf design per se. Definitely other movies with scarier werewolves,
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: but the story itself is so unique and strange and
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: different from other Werewolf movies, and I come back to
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: it every couple of years. And then separately too. A
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: few years ago I decided to start screenwriting, and part
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: of that journey was joining a mentorship and so it
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: was online one with an organization called bipoc TV slash
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: film and they pair you with it. Turns out it
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: was a Canadian organization. I don't think I was supposed
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: to apply, but whatever. They pair you with a mentor
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: and you get like online coffee with them. And I
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: got paired with Karen Walton, who wrote this movie.
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: WHOA.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: It was such a crazy coincidence.
• 7:47
  Speaker 4: Do not know that? That's amazing?
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: It was so hard not to fangirl over her. And
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: she's done some really cool work since Ginger Snaps, and
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: she gave me like really great advice and added me
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: to a Facebook group that she runs for up and
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: coming screenwriters. One day, someone put in the like a
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: post up asking about their favorite film podcast, and several
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: people commented the Bechdel Cast, and I was like, this
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: sounds right up my alley. And look at look at Roboto,
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: look at you.
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: Now you're here with us.
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: Wait, that's so oh.
• 8:21
  Speaker 5: I love that Ginger Snaps in a very roundabout way
• 8:24
  Speaker 5: brought you to the Ginger Snaps episode of this show.
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: That's so cool.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: It's so cool. I would have never guessed it, you know.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: So I'm very Ginger Snaps has really done a lot
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: for me apparently.
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: Wow. Yeah.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: True. So very excited to be here, very excited to
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: talk about it.
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: And not to brag, but you, to some degree, have
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: continued your screenwriting journey in a certain class top by
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: a certain someone who has a certain master's degree in
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: screenwriting from Boston University that I would never ever mention.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: I gotta to say. The screenwriting classes are amazing, and
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: if y'all haven't picked it up, they're taught by Caitlin.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: She's a fantastic teacher and I will continue to take
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: her classes whenever I can.
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: Oh my gosh.
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: Thanks.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: So everyone should take her classes if you want to
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: be a screenwriter.
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah exactly.
• 9:14
  Speaker 4: Well I didn't know you had a master's degree.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: Oh well.
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: The thing is, I don't ever talk about it. I
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: never mentioned it.
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: Very humbul very humpful.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah.
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: So anyway, this episode is just a commercial for my
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: screenwriting classes. Bye, I love what a wonderful, full circle
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: history you have with this movie.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: It's so cool.
• 9:39
  Speaker 5: It's always just like so lovely to hear when people
• 9:43
  Speaker 5: are active late, like successful people are actively involved in
• 9:47
  Speaker 5: mentoring and building community and stuff like that. Karen Walton, like,
• 9:51
  Speaker 5: just based on what I've read about her, it just
• 9:52
  Speaker 5: seems great. I'm glad to know that she also is
• 9:56
  Speaker 5: great and it's like, actually a cool person.
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: That's awesome.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I still have her email and every once in
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: a while reach out and she's pretty good at getting
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: back and she's just a very very cool person. Also,
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: through her I learned some really major differences between the
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: film industry and Canada versus the US, good and bad.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: But the way people get started with screenwriting in Canada
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: is fairly different than here in the United States. I
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: feel like that's another day though. That's like a forty
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: minute rant for me.
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, well, awesome, Jamie. What's your history with Ginger Snaps?
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: I had never seen this movie before.
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: I wish I had.
• 10:34
  Speaker 5: I wish that this movie had found me at the
• 10:37
  Speaker 5: exact right time, but I don't know. I was like,
• 10:40
  Speaker 5: I had an interesting experience watching this movie where I
• 10:43
  Speaker 5: watched it. I mean, this is my first time watching it.
• 10:46
  Speaker 5: I like horror, very into horror. I've never really taken
• 10:50
  Speaker 5: to wear wolf movies specifically, which might have been just
• 10:53
  Speaker 5: why I never happened to see this, because I.
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: Just I'm not a were wolf girly. I don't know
• 10:57
  Speaker 4: what to say.
• 10:59
  Speaker 5: But the first time I watched this movie, I like
• 11:02
  Speaker 5: sat with it for a day and I was like, WHOA, Like,
• 11:04
  Speaker 5: I don't. I almost like didn't know what to make
• 11:07
  Speaker 5: of it because there's so much going on.
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: I was like, did I like that? I do like
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: what it was like. It was a slow burn for me.
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: I don't know, it was weird.
• 11:15
  Speaker 5: And then I went back to rewatch it the second
• 11:18
  Speaker 5: time to prepare, and by the end, I was.
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: Like, no, this is like the coolest movie.
• 11:23
  Speaker 5: It's like it's I mean, it has its fault, it
• 11:26
  Speaker 5: has its tricky points, which we'll talk about, but I yeah,
• 11:30
  Speaker 5: it was a movie that I really had to kind
• 11:32
  Speaker 5: of sit with.
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: And once I watched it again, like a full two
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: days later, I was like, no, this fucking rules. I
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: can't wait to talk about this. I'm really excited to.
• 11:41
  Speaker 5: Hear everyone because it is like a movie that really
• 11:44
  Speaker 5: begs to be talked about with other people, and so
• 11:48
  Speaker 5: I am really excited to talk about it.
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: I feel like there's probably points of view I haven't considered.
• 11:53
  Speaker 5: I really enjoyed reading queer and trans writer's views on
• 11:56
  Speaker 5: this movie because, you know, like I think on my
• 11:59
  Speaker 5: first few I was like, it's all about defining womanhood
• 12:02
  Speaker 5: by periods.
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: But then reading other.
• 12:04
  Speaker 5: People's opinions on it, You're like, Okay, this movie is
• 12:06
  Speaker 5: like complex in a way that it maybe wasn't even
• 12:09
  Speaker 5: intending to be, but has like prompted all of this discussion,
• 12:13
  Speaker 5: and that's a special kind of movie.
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: I'm excited to talk about it. Caitlyn, had you seen
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: this movie before?
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: I had once before. It was during the Great Caitlin
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: Movie watching Binge of two thousand and four. I think
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: it was my friend who I mentioned recently on the
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: Job Breaker episode who had introduced me. She was a
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: big horror buff, so she showed me a bunch of
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: horror movies that I probably wouldn't have seen otherwise, and
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: I believe one of them was Ginger Snaps. I think
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: that's how I came to see this movie, and I
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: thought it was cool in the sense that it was
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: a version of the werewolf story unlike anything I had seen.
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: But I'm similarly not much of a werewolf person. I
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: far prefer vampires. Not that it's a competition, but I.
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: Was like almost on basic.
• 13:13
  Speaker 5: But I do like zombies and vampires and most of all,
• 13:16
  Speaker 5: I love a scary ghost and I.
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: Love the whatever the Babaduck is.
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: I like that. Yeah, the Bobbadok is its own genre.
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's more like a hat based villain.
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: I love a jigsaw villain.
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: I love a jig saw, I love a little oh
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: I do it. Yeah, I'll haunt it.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: Doll.
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: That's definitely in my.
• 13:38
  Speaker 5: Top four right right, right right. Every horror fan in
• 13:42
  Speaker 5: the world wants to They murder me right now. Like, Hi,
• 13:45
  Speaker 5: there's doll movie, there's scary dre there's Babaduk movie.
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: Yes, there's Babaduk genre. Doll genre.
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: I think vampires, but I almost have never like scared
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: by a vampire movie. For like horror that actually scares me.
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: The thing that I gravitate towards the most, I think
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: is like a cult type stuff or like Satan worship,
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: like and I'm sorry to invoke a movie made by
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: a horrible person, but like Rosemary's Baby is.
• 14:18
  Speaker 5: Oh, I thought you were gonna say, I'm sorry to
• 14:20
  Speaker 5: invoke Bielsa Bob.
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: Never mind, never.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: Mind, we're making our own horror hooting right now.
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I'm with you there.
• 14:32
  Speaker 5: I also was realizing as I was watching, I'm like,
• 14:34
  Speaker 5: why have I been avoiding I've been avoiding werewolves recently,
• 14:38
  Speaker 5: and I know the reason is because my friend was
• 14:42
  Speaker 5: getting really into it. There's a very popular werewolf erotica genre.
• 14:48
  Speaker 5: Boy that my friend sent a recommendation to me, and
• 14:52
  Speaker 5: I'm down to try anything, you know. I was like, whatever,
• 14:54
  Speaker 5: I've read the occasional erotica brag. It's a very sophisticated
• 14:58
  Speaker 5: way to experience. It's like, also hard, I'm reading a book.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Just as reading intellectual.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: It was.
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: I mean, it's it's a fun way to whack off.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: But I just really did I was.
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: Not vibing with the wearful genre.
• 15:17
  Speaker 5: It was actually quite freaking me out due to the
• 15:20
  Speaker 5: whole dog of it all.
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: So I did I'm going to call it that.
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: If you love this.
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: Genre, I'm not shaming you at all. I just it
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: wasn't for me.
• 15:29
  Speaker 5: I read a book called The Tyrant Alpha's Rejected Mate
• 15:33
  Speaker 5: which is so many words.
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, you've brought this up before.
• 15:36
  Speaker 5: I really struggled with the tyrant Alpha's rejected mate. It
• 15:40
  Speaker 5: took me months to finish. I didn't get horny one time,
• 15:43
  Speaker 5: but I was just like really.
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: Trying to finish it.
• 15:46
  Speaker 5: And so I think uniquely this year, I was like,
• 15:49
  Speaker 5: I'm done with werewolves for a while.
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: They're too a horny, there's too much going on. This
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: was recent, This was this year. Yeah, I read that
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: book this year. And if you've read it, and you,
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: I mean, I understand.
• 16:01
  Speaker 5: It's like it's always weird when you're like experiencing erotica
• 16:05
  Speaker 5: that is not for you, where you're like I get it,
• 16:07
  Speaker 5: I get it, I get it, but I but I'm
• 16:09
  Speaker 5: not feeling anything. So anyways, that's why I was avoiding
• 16:12
  Speaker 5: were Wolves. We could take this out of the show
• 16:14
  Speaker 5: if we want.
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: Now, I think we should leave it. And I'm gonna
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: add something to it really quick here, which is that
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: when I was in the UK on the Shrek Tannic tour,
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: I met up with a listener of the show shout
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: Out to Day's. We went to Shrek's Adventure together in
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: London and they gave me a horny book. What are
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: they called erotica novel? Yeah, erotica entitled Get in My
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: Swamp colon, an ogre love story, and I started reading it.
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: I have to finish it, but I think maybe you
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: would enjoy it a lot more than you enjoyed the
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: werewolf erotica.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: I would wager, so I.
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: Would wait for so.
• 17:02
  Speaker 5: I just didn't like when they're like, let's fuck his dogs,
• 17:05
  Speaker 5: I'm like, I just don't want to read about dogs
• 17:07
  Speaker 5: fucking anyways.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's some people's issue or not issue,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: about why there aren't a ton of werewolf fans out there.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: It's so close to beat reality, right, it like really
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: toes the line, which I think is what makes it
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: all so kind of like interesting and fascinating. Also, to
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: your credit, it is hard to find good werewolf movies.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: I had the opposite, like two or three years ago.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: I was like, sat down. I was like, I want
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: to watch every werewolf movie ever, right, because one of
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: my favorites is Ginger Snaps, and I do love an
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: American werewolf in London, and I spent like months and
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: a lot. Unfortunately they suffer from both not enough budget
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: to dedicate to the Werewolf Transformation and not enough budget
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: to get good actors, you know what I mean, Like
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: they can they can't. Really, a lot of them can't
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: balance both. The only other like really good werewolf movie
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: I would ever recommend, well, I mean I'd recommend several.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: But the other big one aside from American Werewolf and
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: Ginger Snaps is one called Dog Soldiers, and that one's
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: closer to action horror than American Werewolf or Ginger Snaps.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: I feel like Ginger Snaps American Werewolf are very layered
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: and have a lot to say about the topics that
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: they're covering because they're very different topics, right. American Werewolf
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: interprets werewolf ism in a very different way than Ginger
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: Snaps does. But Dog Soldiers is like good fun. It
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: almost feels like watching like action romp. There's just werewolves
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: thrown in there and then you're in like the background.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: The backdrop is Scotland. But it's again one of the
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: few that had a good enough budget to like. The
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: Werewolf Transformation is cool. The werewolves are scary.
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: Wait I've seen this movie. Yeah, now that I'm looking
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: at the images of it.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: During my Werewolf kick, it was the only one that
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: stuck out to me. I was like, huh, this was
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: pretty good, and I rewatched it recently just to make
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: sure my opinion was right, you know, because you watched
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: something the first time enamored, and then you watch the
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: second time you're like, oh no, that one of dog
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: soldiers does take a really bizarre misogynistic turn at the end,
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: and I feel like some scenes got edited out that
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: maybe would have explained it. But aside from that, it's
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: a fun were wolf movie, but it's a hard genre
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: to I think, pull off successfully. And then on a
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: personal note, Twilight kind of ruined my life with were
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: wolves because everyone started associating werewolves and animalism with native
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: people and the amount of like questions like God, and
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: the amount of people like that. I feel like the
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: type of racism I face increased after the movies. In particular,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: the book's release was hard enough, and then the movies
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: just like took it over the edge. So I feel
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: like Werewolves has also just not gotten good p R
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: in the last couple of years. Yeah, so I totally
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: get not being into were wolves or werewolf movies.
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: It's a hard one for sure.
• 20:00
  Speaker 5: Want to recover Twilight we absolutely, because there's I like,
• 20:04
  Speaker 5: there's so much we didn't talk about or even know
• 20:07
  Speaker 5: to talk about the first time we talked about it.
• 20:08
  Speaker 5: But yeah, I mean, they're just werewolves in general.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: There are a tough cell.
• 20:12
  Speaker 5: I think that's an excellent point to make too, is
• 20:15
  Speaker 5: that the most recent popular adaptation of werewolf stories was
• 20:19
  Speaker 5: done in an incredibly racist and harmful way. And unless
• 20:24
  Speaker 5: I'm missing something, there really hasn't been a popular piece
• 20:28
  Speaker 5: of werewolf media since.
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: I mean, I'm coming in so called I'm coming in
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: at like werewolf bar.
• 20:34
  Speaker 5: Mitzvah, Like that's where I'm at with werewolf media.
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: Spooky scary boys becoming men, men becoming wolves.
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: And I was like, well, it's not going to get
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: better than this, you know.
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: I like the werewolves in what we do in the Shadows,
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: and that's kind of it. I would say, Yeah, any way,
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: a quick brain and then we'll come back and recap
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: the movie. And we're back and here is the recap.
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: Although first I will place content warning for things like suicide,
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: sexual assault, animal abuse, and graphic violence toward dogs.
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: It really is kind of a you name it of
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: is a lot of stuper warnings.
• 21:35
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I will say before we start, just because I've got.
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: Werewolf ber mitzvah on the brain. It is kind of
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: like relevant the narrative of wear Wolf.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, like girls.
• 21:48
  Speaker 5: Becoming women, women becoming wolves. That is kind of the
• 21:53
  Speaker 5: theme of Ginger snaps.
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: That's sort of the log line.
• 21:57
  Speaker 5: Like a werewolf bot mitzmore Wow, wonderful observation makes you thank.
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: You, thank you. That's all those are. That will be
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: all my contributions for the day.
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, fine, fun, Okay. So we open on the town
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: of Bailey Downs, Canada Ever heard of it? A place
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: that is being terrorized by vicious attacks from some unknown
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: animal that people are calling the Beast of Bailey Downs.
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: We then meet two teen sisters who are like goth
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: not esthetically but like attitude wise in the sense that
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: they're obsessed with death and they have a suicide packed
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: since they've been kids. This is Bridget played by Emily
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: Perkins and Ginger played by Catherine Isabelle.
• 22:52
  Speaker 5: It's so interesting because I feel like when we meet them,
• 22:55
  Speaker 5: I interpreted them originally as at first glance as like
• 22:58
  Speaker 5: goth in the hot topics sense, and then it's like
• 23:02
  Speaker 5: they you yes, but also there's.
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: More going on right, Okay. So at school, Ginger and
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: Bridget are in gym class, playing field hockey, and Bridget
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: says a bunch of mean things about this popular girl,
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: Trina Sinclair, the.
• 23:20
  Speaker 5: Most popular girl name of all time, Yes, Terrina.
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: And she overhears Bridget talking shit about her, and so
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: she pushes Bridget down into the carcass of another dismembered
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: dog that has been attacked by the beast of Bailey Downs.
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: And it really makes you wonder why there's just this
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: dog carcass in the middle of a playing field at
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: a school, just out in the open, has not been
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: cleaned up, and.
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: No one has an appropriate reaction to it.
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: I watched this movie so many times and every time
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: I get to that part, I'm like, this just you
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: would smell it, right, Yeah, for sure, I know it's
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: Canada and cold, but it's not that cold like you
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: would notice it before you face plan it to it.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: Like that part never makes it.
• 24:08
  Speaker 5: We had to have been cut there, right, Because I've
• 24:11
  Speaker 5: rewatched that.
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: Seen so many times, I'm like, I'm missing something. I'm
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: missing something.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: How didn't know?
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: And see the open dog?
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: I think it's just a goof it works whatever Ginger
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: and Bridget form a plan to get back at Trina
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: by making it seem like her dog has been attacked
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: by the beast. Meanwhile, there's this boy who has been
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: ogling Ginger. This is Jason, who to me looks so
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: much like Justin Trudeau. And then I found out that
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: this was a Canadian movie, and I was like, is
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: that secretly a young Justin Trudeau?
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: Interesting?
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: No, I see it, I totally see it. Maybe they're
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: like long distant cousins. I think did anything about that? Wow?
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: Anyway, he approaches Ginger and asks her out, but she's like,
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: ooh no, because she's above the idea of like being
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: a teen girl who likes and dates boys. That's too
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: like normcore for her. So at home, Ginger and Bridget
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: have dinner with their mom and dad, who are like
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: very speaking of norm coore, very much so compared to
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: their daughter's like emo gothiness. Ginger complains about back pain,
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: and their mom is like, maybe you're finally getting cramps.
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: Maybe you're finally getting your period, because apparently these two sisters,
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: as their mom describes it, are three years late getting
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: their period. They're fifteen and sixteen, Like you know the
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: age ranges for when people start menstruating, but their mom
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: feels like they should have gotten their periods by now.
• 25:57
  Speaker 5: Yeah, which is like, I mean, we'll talk about the
• 25:58
  Speaker 5: mom a lot because I was sort of surprise at
• 26:00
  Speaker 5: where her story landed. Yeah, yeah, in a more positive
• 26:05
  Speaker 5: way than I was expecting, because I feel like we
• 26:08
  Speaker 5: just covered Jawbreaker, which one of my like criticisms of
• 26:11
  Speaker 5: that was that the adults were so like underthought that
• 26:16
  Speaker 5: it was unclear like the world that we were really in.
• 26:20
  Speaker 5: It was interesting because I do feel like there's it's
• 26:22
  Speaker 5: like an over the top especially for people who meant
• 26:25
  Speaker 5: straight like I was a super late bloomer and it
• 26:29
  Speaker 5: came up in the family, which is mortifying. I don't know,
• 26:34
  Speaker 5: I felt seen by that.
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: Sure.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I love Pam of all movie horror movie moms.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: She always has like a very special place of my heart.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: She's so like loyal and again, we'll talk about her
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: more later, but I just every time I watched this movie,
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: I'm like justice for Pam.
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: Also, I feel like there's a lot of like great.
• 26:56
  Speaker 5: Of the time passion in this movie, but I feel
• 26:59
  Speaker 5: like Pam kind of takes it.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: She really does she's got the.
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: Embroidered shirts of like others nightmares.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: And like her little pumpkin ear rings.
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: I'm like, we're little poofball ear rings. And her hair
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: scrunches and the hair.
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: Great performance. Yeah, she's just a mom who's constantly like
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: isn't that fun?
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she's great. She's played by Mimi Rogers. Mimi Rogers. Okay,
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: so the sisters go out that night to execute their
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: plan with Trina's dog, but they come upon an already
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: mulled dog at a playground and they're like, oh, well,
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: we'll just use this. But before they can do anything
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: with it, Ginger gets her period and says, I just
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: got the curse. Funniest Bechdel test passing exchange in the
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: movie for me, Yeah, because then Bridget says, oh, and
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: then Ginger says, it's not contagious anyway.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: It's a great exchange.
• 28:07
  Speaker 5: Yeah. And then she's like, if you ever hear me
• 28:09
  Speaker 5: like griping around a tampon machine, frigging kill me. I
• 28:13
  Speaker 5: was like, yeah, just you wait, just you wait.
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: Okay, so maybe because she's gotten her period and there's
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: blood now, but the beast attacks Ginger like pops out
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: of the woods, drags her back into the woods. Bridget
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: goes after her. There's a whole scuffle with this beast
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: and it chases them onto the road, but then gets
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: hit by a van and killed, allowing the girls to escape.
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: The driver of the van is this weed dealer guy
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: named Sam who we've met before because the popular girl
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: Trina seems to have some kind of history with him.
• 28:56
  Speaker 5: The Sam character, I just feel like he wants to
• 28:58
  Speaker 5: be Christian Slaters so bad.
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, I see that.
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 29:03
  Speaker 5: I feel like there's a whole slate of kind of
• 29:07
  Speaker 5: like bruneout style character actors that come out in the
• 29:10
  Speaker 5: nineties into the two thousands that are just doing a
• 29:12
  Speaker 5: really solid Christian Slater. In Heather's impression, a slate of
• 29:18
  Speaker 5: Slater wanna be a slate of Slaters, one could say, yeah,
• 29:23
  Speaker 5: a real bunch of mister Robots.
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: So okay, the girl's hurry back home. Ginger has sustained
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: some pretty serious injuries from this beast attack. She's got
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: these big gashes on her shoulder and she doesn't want
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: anyone to know about this, and she's somehow already healing,
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: but she's not feeling great, which could either be period
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: cramps or the fact that she's turning into a werewolf
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: question mark because Bridget had managed to take a polaroid
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: of the during the scuffle, and it's not super clear,
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: but it looks like it might be a were wolf.
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: So then Bridget approaches Sam to be like, hey, what
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: did you hit with your van the other night? And
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: he's like, I don't know a were wolf and she's like, hmm, interesting,
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: that's what I think too. And then Trina comes up
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: with her dog and it starts barking at Ginger on
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: account of her now being a were wolf, so she
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: kicks the dog horrible seemed to watch and runs into
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: the bathroom and they discover fur growing out of the
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: gashes in her shoulder. Period. Blood is like gushing out
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: of her and snarly. Bridget's like, yeah, I'm pretty sure
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: you're a were wolf, and Ginger's like, that's ridiculous. Were
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: Wolves aren't.
• 30:53
  Speaker 5: Real, and being a were wolf gives you awesome highlights too. Yes, yeah,
• 30:58
  Speaker 5: I loved the werewolf highlights. Great touch.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I loved the gradualness of her clause too. I
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: clocked it more this time around, because every time I
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: was like, oh man, her nails look so good, and
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: then I like, look closer, I'm like, nope, those are claws.
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: I thought that was a very interesting This also, too,
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: is one of the few werewolf movies where it's not
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: a sudden transformation, which again we can talk about later,
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: but I can't really think of any others that imply
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: once you turn, that's you twenty four to seven. And
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: I feel like that's what this werewolf.
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: Movie implies, right, yeah, yeah, with her transformation, you're just
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: like extra were wolfy on the full moon, but the
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: rest of the time you're like just kind of were wolfe.
• 31:39
  Speaker 5: I saw like a lot written about that in like
• 31:42
  Speaker 5: a positive way, where it was like this, like, werewolf
• 31:45
  Speaker 5: movies are so often beheld to moon cycles, which are
• 31:48
  Speaker 5: very similar to menstrual cycles, and the fact that this
• 31:51
  Speaker 5: movie doesn't fully lean into that is like kind of
• 31:54
  Speaker 5: a strength because that.
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: Would be the super obvious thing to do.
• 31:57
  Speaker 5: And I feel like it makes Ginger's emotion journey like
• 32:01
  Speaker 5: slowing it down does make it scarier.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, because you're like, is she changing because of her
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: puberty or is it because of the werewolf virus? And
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: I think that's a relatable experience as a young person
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: having all of her friends have crazy hormones all the time,
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: you know, So I.
• 32:20
  Speaker 5: Love that choice and seeing her like really struggle with
• 32:23
  Speaker 5: it too and be unsure about how she feels about
• 32:26
  Speaker 5: the changes that are happening in her, Like it's it's great.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: So the sisters get into an argument. Ginger thinks Bridget
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: is jealous because Gingers growing up into a woman and
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: Bridget still isn't. So they have this fight, and at school,
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: Ginger is now wearing like form fitting clothing. People are
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: noticing her and being like a wooga. She's making out
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: with that Jason guy and ignoring Bridget. Meanwhile, Bridget starts
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: researching werewolves. She's also tracking Ginger's menstrual cycle and it
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: seems like her next period might start.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: On the full moon.
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: She also discovers that Ginger is growing a tail, and
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: she links back up with Sam. Bridget does so that
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: they can figure out what to do about this whole
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: werewolf thing, and Sam speculates there might be a cure.
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: Side note, this is like not super narratively consequential, but
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: like at first, Bridget tells Sam that it's her who's
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: affected by this to like protect Ginger, yah. But by
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: the end he figures it out.
• 33:39
  Speaker 5: Which made me confused at first because I have one
• 33:41
  Speaker 5: brain cell. I was like, wait, what what outsmarted by
• 33:45
  Speaker 5: a teenager yet again?
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: But anyway, he gives Bridget an earring made of pure
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: silver because he's like, maybe it'll purify your blood and
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: like rid it of this infection. In the meantime, has
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: sex with Jason and kind of like chomps on him
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: a bit, although she doesn't kill him, but she does
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: kill a neighbor's dog, Norman the Dog, and that's very sad.
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: I know, the King, I love the goalie.
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: The goalie I know, oh yeah, and he's like Norman.
• 34:22
  Speaker 4: He's like Norman norm a hockey representation.
• 34:27
  Speaker 5: That's like you're like, oh yeah, the movie takes place
• 34:29
  Speaker 5: in Canada because he's just like playing hockey by myself
• 34:32
  Speaker 5: at home. Classic between that and the stories, Oh my god, yeah,
• 34:36
  Speaker 5: every time she was sorry, Okay, I didn't realize I
• 34:40
  Speaker 5: forgot that it was a Canadian film until a while
• 34:43
  Speaker 5: into the movie and then someone says sorry and I'm like,
• 34:46
  Speaker 5: oh my god, they're in Canada. It honestly is so
• 34:49
  Speaker 5: wild seeing a teenage This is a very American observation,
• 34:53
  Speaker 5: but like seeing a teenager in crisis with a Canadian
• 34:58
  Speaker 5: twang outside of the was truly shocking to me.
• 35:02
  Speaker 4: I was like, wait, when are they gonna go see Drake?
• 35:06
  Speaker 4: You know, but that's not how this movie goes.
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: Mm hmmm, Okay. So Ginger and Bridget kind of make up,
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: and Ginger confides in Bridget that she has this insatiable
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: hunger and wants to tear everything into pieces.
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: She might be snapping.
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: One could say she's on the brink. She's a snap
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: is impending saying.
• 35:29
  Speaker 5: Yeah, snap impending is That's that's sort of my status
• 35:33
  Speaker 5: of take very I will say the seed.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: Where she's like throwing up and talking about I tried
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: to look at my nose if I wrote down their quote.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: But any goth horror girl, that's like the favorite quote
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: of I thought I was craving sex, but I want
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: to tear everything to fucking pieces. That is one of
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: my favorite It's just because I feel like too, especially
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: by two thousand, you know, girlhood teenage girl rage was
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: so rarely explored, especially in the manner that this film
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: explores it. So that is one of my favorite lines
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: in the whole movie.
• 36:08
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that was the line where I was I turned
• 36:12
  Speaker 5: to my boyfriend, I was like, this movie was I
• 36:15
  Speaker 5: guarantee very popular on Tumblr That line alone, likely this
• 36:20
  Speaker 5: movie did numbers on Tumblr.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: In the future.
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: Okay, So then Bridget has the idea to pierce Ginger's
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: belly button and put in the silver earring in case
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: that cures the werewolf ism. But it doesn't seem to
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: do anything, and her tail by this point has grown
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: so much that they have to tape it to her leg,
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: so the werewolfights is getting worse. Then there's another field
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: hockey gym class fight with Trina scene there's at least
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: to it in the movie, where Ginger beats the shit
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: out of Trina, so they're still feuding. Meanwhile, Jason is
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: pissing blood and turning into a were wolf as well.
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: It's stated that he and Ginger had unprotected sex and
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: she passed along this because the movie treats the like
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: werewolf ism as a disease, like it's an infection that
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: can be passed on through sex. So he's becoming a
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: werewolf now. Ginger and Bridget then go to Sam's greenhouse,
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: where he grows all of his weed.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: And lives there. By the way, he lives at the Greenhouse.
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: And get ready, yeah, yes, yes, yes, yep. He tells
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: them about an herb called Monk's Hood and how it
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: could be a cure, but it's a perennial and it
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: only grows in the springtime and it seems like it oh,
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: it's like fall. It's like Halloween time right now, So
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: this doesn't really help them. And Ginger, let's say her
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: snap is closer than ever before. One night, Trina, the
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: mean girl, comes over to confront the sisters about like
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: taking her dog, and Ginger attacks Trina, who trips and
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: hits her head and dies right when the sister's parents
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: come home. So they do this like clever cover up
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: and then they bury Trina in the yard and make
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: a plan to just like run away after they're sure
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: no one suspects them of killing Trina. Meanwhile, Jason is
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: becoming more were WOLFI he has this like intense rash
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: on his face, his teeth are getting sharper, he's growing
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: a tail.
• 38:47
  Speaker 5: This is silly, but I was looking up the actor
• 38:50
  Speaker 5: who played Jason, and he plays another character named Jason
• 38:54
  Speaker 5: in Final Destination three.
• 38:56
  Speaker 4: My favorite. He's the boyfriend that actually dies on the
• 39:01
  Speaker 4: roller coaster at the beginning.
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, yeah, okay, he's barely in it. But also
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: the wee guy is also in Final Destination three. We
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: really he plays the goffy guy who like gets squished
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: by the giant sign. It's the same act.
• 39:15
  Speaker 4: Oh my god, wait with the other Canadian actor who
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: was on Instant Star. I remember that. Wow.
• 39:23
  Speaker 5: They literally just were like, oh, can we get the
• 39:26
  Speaker 5: guys from Ginger Snaps?
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: Are they available?
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: But yes, yes, can they play the same character. Also, yeah,
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: that's so funny. Oh yeah, there he is Ian. I
• 39:38
  Speaker 4: remember him. I remember him.
• 39:39
  Speaker 5: He's It's so hard because that movie is like Mary,
• 39:41
  Speaker 5: Elizabeth Winstead, Ryan Merriman and others.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: Unfortunately, I do also like Final Destination three. As far
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: as sequels, I actually really enjoy the whole series. A
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: Final Destination I think it rocks, except for the weird
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: I think it's the fourth one where it's like a
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: racetrack one that one blows. It's not fun, it sucks.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: There's like a weird racism storyline that doesn't work very well. No,
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: but the rest of them I think are super fun
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: and scary, and I'll watch anything. Tony Todd is in,
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: especially if he's representing death between that and Candy Man.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: But but battle the two three is definitely one of
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: the one of the funner ones.
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: I think that's my favorite scene.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh god, and the nail gun one because I
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: also work in a scene shop for a long time now.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: Of course, with all the deaths, that is so extremely unlikely,
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: but it's not impossible.
• 40:34
  Speaker 5: And that is where Final Destination succeeds every time. The
• 40:38
  Speaker 5: tanning Beth said in Final Destination three is the one
• 40:40
  Speaker 5: I think about the most.
• 40:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, all the time, all the time.
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: Oh she yeah, brutal Okay. So Bridget realizes that her
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: mom has bought a bunch of dried monkshood, the herb
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: that could potentially be the cure they're looking for, from
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: a craft shop classic Pam. This is just in time
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: because Ginger is really on the verge of a nervous
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: snap down, we'll say, And Bridget locks Ginger in the
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: bathroom so that she can't hurt anyone, and Bridget takes
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: the monks hood to Sam to make the cure and
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: they craft this like injectable version of it. But when
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: Bridget goes home to administer it, Ginger is not there.
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: She has broken out of the bathroom, gone to school,
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: and she kills the school guidance counselor. Meanwhile, Bridget runs
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: into Jason, who is even more were wolfy, and I
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: would say he's having a adjacent snap ad.
• 41:48
  Speaker 4: Jason snaps that as fun.
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: A little scarier too sometimes with his Then yeah, I mean,
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: we're along with Ginger for the ride, and she's been
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: shown to be cool, but his happen is like also
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: like familiar too in a way that's uncomfortable. Like I've
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: been around teen boys who without the werewolf ism act
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: like right, you know, So his character was written a
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: little too well in some aspects.
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's almost like boys and men are socialized to
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: be overly aggressive in many contexts.
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: And girls will cure them.
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: Right, Because what happens is Bridget injects him with the
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: cure and it seems to work pretty instantly, so we're like, okay,
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: the cure works. So then Bridget finds Ginger and she's like, okay,
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: we'll just clean up the body of this dead guidance
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: counselor and then we're gonna run away. And by now
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: Ginger is looking quite wolfy. She's still like humanish but
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: also wolfish, and she's pretty evil now. She doesn't seem
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: to have as much remorse as she once did. I
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: would say it's safe to say that Ginger has snapped
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: at this point, because she attacks and kills the school
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: custodian for pretty much no reason, and she tries to
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: convince Bridget to become a werewolf like her, and Bridget refuses,
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: so Ginger storms off and approaches Sam, attempts to seduce,
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: slash assault him, and then Bridget comes in to save
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: him by cutting her hand and exchanging blood with Ginger
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: so that Bridget will get infected with werewolf ititis and
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: that'll kind of distract Ginger. So Bridget and Sam take
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: Ginger back home to make more of the cure, but
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: by now Ginger is like full werewolf and Bridget is
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: also turning into a were wolf because of this like
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: blood exchange thing, and Ginger is just kind of running
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: around the house on the loose, and Sam and Bridget
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: are making the next cure, but then Ginger wolf grabs
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: Sam and bites the shit out of him. Bridget finds
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: them and starts eating Sam's blood, but realizes, like I
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: can't do this. I can't. I refuse to embrace where
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: wolf culture. So she and Ginger have like the big
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: final showdown. They're chasing each other. Ginger lunges at Bridget,
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: who stabs and kills Ginger, and so Bridget is very
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: sad that her you know, beloved sister is dead. And
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: that's how the movie ends. So let's take a quick
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: break and will come back to discuss and we're back.
• 45:11
  Speaker 4: Boy, are we where to begin?
• 45:14
  Speaker 5: I also, I just want to talk about the ending
• 45:17
  Speaker 5: really quick. Where the ending may be so sad?
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: I know it's a bummer. Yeah, every time I watch
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: it it makes me so sad. But also it just
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: there was no personally, no other ending to be had.
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: Ginger was too far gone right. And I also thought
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: it was interesting too because they're so death obsessed this
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: entire movie, and but this situation, this virus, this scenario
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: proved that, especially for Birdwate, she did not want death.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: She was never she did not want to die with
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: her sister. So it's a very like layered and almost
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: makes it more.
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: Sad too, you know.
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: Yeah, the more I thought about it, the sadder it.
• 45:55
  Speaker 5: Made me because on the second feeling, I also noticed that,
• 45:59
  Speaker 5: you know, it almost seems that Ginger chooses death because
• 46:04
  Speaker 5: Bridget is holding the syringe. Also she's holding the cure,
• 46:09
  Speaker 5: and she's holding the knife, and Ginger lunges onto the
• 46:15
  Speaker 5: knife because, like you're saying, Olivia, I think Ginger almost
• 46:18
  Speaker 5: recognizes that she is too far gone and that it
• 46:22
  Speaker 5: gives her sister the best chance to survive if she's
• 46:26
  Speaker 5: not there, which is like Shakespeare and it's really brutal.
• 46:31
  Speaker 5: And I'm trying to remember I don't have the citation
• 46:33
  Speaker 5: in front of me, but I read an interpretation of
• 46:36
  Speaker 5: this movie that speaks to what you're saying, that how
• 46:39
  Speaker 5: they are so death obsessed in the way that I
• 46:42
  Speaker 5: think a lot of young people are in a world
• 46:45
  Speaker 5: where it still is a more nebulous concept.
• 46:49
  Speaker 4: We don't really know that they've had.
• 46:51
  Speaker 5: First person interactions or brushes with death really, And I
• 46:55
  Speaker 5: mean I know that I was like that as a kid,
• 46:57
  Speaker 5: where you know if you're unhappy, and it's kind of
• 47:01
  Speaker 5: a more like a morbid nebulous concept.
• 47:03
  Speaker 4: It's almost I found it easier to interact with than
• 47:05
  Speaker 4: I do now. But I read sort of Ginger's character.
• 47:10
  Speaker 5: Of being a meditation on suicidality in young people, where
• 47:15
  Speaker 5: it's revealed, you know, as time goes on that Bridget
• 47:18
  Speaker 5: is sort of interacting with the concept out of curiosity
• 47:21
  Speaker 5: and Ginger may not be.
• 47:24
  Speaker 4: Because we see Ginger makes an attempt on.
• 47:26
  Speaker 5: Her own life in the you know space of the movie,
• 47:29
  Speaker 5: and that, you know, it's sort of implied that while
• 47:34
  Speaker 5: their parents care about them, they're not an adequate support
• 47:38
  Speaker 5: system for you know, kid who's depressed. That wasn't necessarily
• 47:44
  Speaker 5: my read of it, but I thought it was interesting
• 47:46
  Speaker 5: and that, I mean, it's certainly a valid read of
• 47:50
  Speaker 5: that character dynamic.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, And I've watched this several times. I think each
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: time I get really enamored with the special effects with
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: you know, dissent to werewolf ism. But this time I
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: really focused in on the relationship between Bridget and Ginger.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: And I have a sister and I'm very close with her,
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: but our relationship is not like this where we're so
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: co dependent and at some point their relationship becomes extremely
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: toxic and abusive. And so because in the very beginning,
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: Ginger says, well, Bridget, this whole death thing was your
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: idea when you were eight years old. So I think
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: that speaks to Bridget's curiosity with it, but because Ginger
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: is so dependent on Bridget, it morphed into both of
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: them being obsessed with it. Yeah, so I agree with
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: thinking being really sad.
• 48:43
  Speaker 5: Yeah, but it also just went away. I wasn't expecting
• 48:46
  Speaker 5: to where I don't know. I think we just again,
• 48:48
  Speaker 5: I'm going to call back to a jobbreaker because we
• 48:51
  Speaker 5: just talked about it yesterday. But how you know, when
• 48:54
  Speaker 5: Sam is introduced, you're like, oh my god, is this
• 48:56
  Speaker 5: going to be like deis ex boyfriend like we see
• 49:00
  Speaker 5: so frequently in movies, And it's not exactly that because
• 49:03
  Speaker 5: it's not a romantic relationship and he dies at the end,
• 49:07
  Speaker 5: like I feel like most movies would have him, you know, like,
• 49:11
  Speaker 5: and it's almost like you're set up to have that
• 49:13
  Speaker 5: expectation where you know, Sam's like, I'm gonna go out there,
• 49:16
  Speaker 5: I'm gonna I've got this blah blah blah, and then
• 49:19
  Speaker 5: he's like instantly dead and you're like, yeah, yeah, that
• 49:22
  Speaker 5: actually makes more sense. And I didn't dislike that character,
• 49:26
  Speaker 5: but I don't know, I expected him to live. So
• 49:28
  Speaker 5: the fact that he did die, I was kind of surprised,
• 49:30
  Speaker 5: and I was surprised that Ginger dies. I mean, it's
• 49:33
  Speaker 5: just like, like it went this really really tragic way
• 49:36
  Speaker 5: that I did not see it going. But I agree
• 49:39
  Speaker 5: Olivia that, like how else could it end? Once you
• 49:44
  Speaker 5: see that ending, once you embrace the beast exactly, their
• 49:49
  Speaker 5: relationship was fascinating. I mean, like there are like little
• 49:53
  Speaker 5: elements too that I'm guessing are coming from Karen Walton
• 49:57
  Speaker 5: of just like specific kind of like oldhood things, but
• 50:02
  Speaker 5: I mean applies across the gender spectrum. But like if
• 50:04
  Speaker 5: you're like I remember when my older cousins hit puberty before.
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: Me, and just the instant feeling of being left behind
• 50:12
  Speaker 4: and the instant feeling that they had changed, And then
• 50:15
  Speaker 4: the same experience for my cousins who are younger than me,
• 50:19
  Speaker 4: all of a sudden feeling like they're kids.
• 50:21
  Speaker 5: And I'm at, like, look, they don't get you know.
• 50:24
  Speaker 5: And I mean, I think, like Emily Perkins gives such
• 50:27
  Speaker 5: a great performance in this movie too, if like she's like,
• 50:30
  Speaker 5: I don't know far in the way the performance of
• 50:32
  Speaker 5: the movie for me, but you can instantly feel how
• 50:36
  Speaker 5: like disorienting and hurtful it is when her sister is
• 50:40
  Speaker 5: not you know, when they're not peers in quite the
• 50:44
  Speaker 5: same way or that, like there's a change in their
• 50:47
  Speaker 5: bodies that makes it I don't know, like I get
• 50:50
  Speaker 5: that feeling of disoriented and.
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: Also a bit of betrayal too, especially when you go
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: from them kind of rejecting being a girl. Right, they
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: don't necessarily want to be the opposite, but they definitely
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: reject girlhood because everything is well, that's curly. If I
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: complain about tampons blah blah blah, and then also not
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: wanting to hook up with guys at that age, transitioning
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: from having no romantic interest to a romantic interest and
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: your friend, your sister hating it before you, it feels
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: like a betrayal almost, And you read that so well
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: in Bridget. She's a very relatable character, and I think
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: she's written pretty well too.
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: I love when she goes, you're doing drugs with boys? Now? Yes, Oh,
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: it's like because this movie, I guess, I mean, this
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: is like emblematic of the time, but like weed was
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: considered like, oh my god, drugs, this person is dealing weed.
• 51:47
  Speaker 5: And yeah, like the age of like because I got
• 51:52
  Speaker 5: high like that, you know, early odds.
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: One of my favorite Bridget lines I wrote down is
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: when her and Ginger are fighting and and Ginger is
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: becoming hairy puberty wearalism, who knows why? And she says,
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: at least I'm not hemorrhaging and hairy, and I don't
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: know that's just I was like, wow, that would hit
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: me so deep at that age.
• 52:12
  Speaker 4: You know it's hilarious now, right it?
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: But I thought that was so funny.
• 52:17
  Speaker 5: My favorite Ginger read in the movie is like when
• 52:21
  Speaker 5: she's like making out with Jason or whatever, she's she's
• 52:24
  Speaker 5: doing her thing and Richid goes Ginger a word and she.
• 52:27
  Speaker 4: Goes, is it sorry? And I was like oooh, just
• 52:32
  Speaker 4: like such a teenage interaction.
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: Well, another thing I find really interesting about this dynamic
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: the Again, because sisters are so rarely explored in movies,
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: you get so few examples of interesting sister dynamics. One
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: thing that I thought was presented compellingly about this movie
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: is the like power dynamic also between the and like
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: the imbalance of power, where like Ginger because she's slightly older,
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: because she reaches puberty first or gets her period first,
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: because she is more I suppose, sought after by like
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: boys at this school, and she has more like social status.
• 53:21
  Speaker 5: Which is a different kind of like unspoken pain that
• 53:24
  Speaker 5: can exist between sisters or friends or whatever. Like sure,
• 53:27
  Speaker 5: navigating that sucks.
• 53:29
  Speaker 3: Especially because a lot of people will look at Bridget
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: and be like, what a little dweeby weirdo, but her
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: sister's hot, So like right, there's all these things that
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: are informing this imbalance of power, which, like Ginger exploits
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: more and more throughout the movie, you know, after she
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: becomes a werewolf, but even before where she's like doing
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: very like sisterly manipulative things to Bridget, and I don't know,
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: it just it felt like a familiar thing to me
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: that you again don't often see in movies. So yeah,
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: I just like I'm like, wow, this was written by
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: someone who understands sisters.
• 54:14
  Speaker 5: And like cares about it, because yeah, I mean, and
• 54:17
  Speaker 5: it is cathartic and cool to I don't know, I
• 54:19
  Speaker 5: feel like it like speaks to how well written it
• 54:22
  Speaker 5: is that by the end, it is like really cathartic
• 54:26
  Speaker 5: to see Bridget stand up to Ginger and be like
• 54:29
  Speaker 5: you cannot control me, you cannot like make me do
• 54:33
  Speaker 5: like bend to your will. But even that doesn't make
• 54:37
  Speaker 5: us hate Ginger, which I feel like is really hard
• 54:41
  Speaker 5: to do that the fact that even when Ginger, I mean,
• 54:43
  Speaker 5: she is a full on monster by the end, she's
• 54:46
  Speaker 5: horrible and like so little of herself remains, but you
• 54:50
  Speaker 5: still are very invested and it's still horrible seeing her
• 54:54
  Speaker 5: die because of how connected you know they are and
• 54:57
  Speaker 5: how it's going to affect Bridget and yeah, I don't know.
• 55:01
  Speaker 5: And then anyone who's been through puberty is just like,
• 55:06
  Speaker 5: oh no, yes, it's the time in puberty where your
• 55:08
  Speaker 5: brain just isn't in your body anymore and you have
• 55:12
  Speaker 5: to let your sisters stab you to death.
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: I do have a lot of thoughts about the movie,
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: likening certain evil things like being a werewolf to certain
• 55:23
  Speaker 3: other things that I don't feel aged very well about
• 55:27
  Speaker 3: this movie. I'll get to that in a moment, but
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: I did want to first just share a few quotes
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: from the press kit of this movie just that will
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: kind of add some context as far as like the
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: development of the story. So, this movie was directed by
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: a man named John Fawcett. It was written by a
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: woman again, Karen Walton shout out, and then the story
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: they both have story by credits, so they conceived of
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: the story together, it seems, and then Karen wrote the script.
• 56:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they work together a lot, I think.
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah. John Fawcett is like the person behind Orphan Black,
• 56:08
  Speaker 3: Is that right?
• 56:09
  Speaker 4: Yes?
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think they both work. She was an
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: executive producer on Some quite a few episodes and she
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: wrote a few episodes too.
• 56:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, which I never watched that show, but I've never
• 56:17
  Speaker 4: heard a bad word about. I know people love it.
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: I've seen I think season one, and then I forgot
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: to keep watching very classic Caitlin behavior.
• 56:27
  Speaker 5: And then I know that she also wrote on Queerisfolk
• 56:30
  Speaker 5: and read on a lot of that TV.
• 56:32
  Speaker 4: Karen Walton did so.
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: Anyway from the press kit of this movie quote. In
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: January of nineteen ninety five, John Fawcett approached screenwriter Karen
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: Walton with a premis for a screenplay. As Fawcett tells it,
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: I knew that I wanted to make a metamorphosis movie
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: and a horror film. I also knew that I wanted
• 56:50
  Speaker 3: to work with girls. That's basically how it all started.
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: Walton recalls, John and I talked a lot about working together.
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: We just had to try and find and idea that
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: appealed to us. Both Initially, I didn't want to get
• 57:03
  Speaker 3: involved in writing a horror movie at all. I generally
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: find them very disappointing as stories and pretty predictable and
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: frustrating in terms of the depiction of females. However, conversations
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: with Fawcett led Walton to realize that it was a
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: genre ripe for reinterpretation. Ginger snaps presented an opportunity to
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: make something sophisticated, to create real characters with real problems,
• 57:29
  Speaker 3: characters that are human beings whose struggles are based on relationships.
• 57:33
  Speaker 3: I found the horror element in the nightmare of trying
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: to figure out who you are and who it is
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: that you love that was attractive to me. The opportunity
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: to put a twist on the subject matter, explains Walton.
• 57:45
  Speaker 3: Right from the start, we wanted to make a movie
• 57:47
  Speaker 3: that would entertain. So yeah, I feel like in at
• 57:53
  Speaker 3: least again the relationship with the sisters and that being
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: a huge focus of the movie, and that being an
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: aspect that I think works very well, and again like
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: a reinterpretation of the werewolf subgenre.
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: Well and before so this is a two thousand movie, yes,
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: and before this werewolf was so masculine, right, masculine, animalistic.
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: I think really the only depiction of women with werewolfism
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: before was The Howling, But even then it leaned more
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: into like sexy werewolf versus what being a woman and
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: being a were wolf. And then there's another movie called
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: The Company of Wolves that's a little similar to Ginger
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: Snaps and that it's kind of an exploration of growing up, right,
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: but it's not. It's more Alice in Wonderland type of
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: interpretation of growing up versus this very brutal version of
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: of growing up. So this was a very for two thousand,
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: a unique opportunity to lend werewolfsm to specifically female puberty.
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 58:59
  Speaker 5: One of the things I had a really hard time
• 59:01
  Speaker 5: with on the first viewing of this movie that felt
• 59:06
  Speaker 5: immediately very dated was the likening of womanhood strictly to menstruation.
• 59:14
  Speaker 4: And while obviously there's a.
• 59:16
  Speaker 5: Ton of women who do menstrate, that that's not a
• 59:18
  Speaker 5: universal experience. So in that way, I was like, I
• 59:22
  Speaker 5: don't know how to feel about that. I have since
• 59:26
  Speaker 5: looked into you know, there are I'm going to share
• 59:30
  Speaker 5: some of it in a bit, but there was a
• 59:32
  Speaker 5: trans analysis of Ginger Snaps that really embraces the movie
• 59:37
  Speaker 5: and is like, yes, it is very you know, prescriptive
• 59:40
  Speaker 5: in how it presents coming of age as a woman,
• 59:43
  Speaker 5: But there is a lot to love if you are
• 59:45
  Speaker 5: looking for a transread of the movie. Here's what I
• 59:48
  Speaker 5: connected to as a young person. And I still think that,
• 59:51
  Speaker 5: like it works in the bloody sense and in the
• 59:55
  Speaker 5: sense that puberty is horrific regardless of who you are,
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 5: and it's painful and it's confusing, and your brain doesn't
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 5: work anymore and your hairy, and it's scary and all
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 5: your friends are being weird poetry.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I just start snapping, ginger snapping, and start ginger snapping.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 5: But that that did stick out to me as a potentially,
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 5: like kind of overly prescriptive thing.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 4: What if we think about that watching the movie in
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 4: twenty twenty four.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 3: I feel that. And I also feel that because the
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: movie like pretty intrinsically ties menstruation with becoming a werewolf,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: because like Ginger becomes a werewolf the same day she
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: gets her period, and her cycle seems linked up with
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 3: the full moon, like the cycle of werewolf dumb. I
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: was like, okay, because of the history of like people
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 3: with uterses and people who men straight being like shonned
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: from their communities for that, and like you know these
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: dark ages, patriarchal standards that would like put menstruating people
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: like cast them away while they were menstruating, and that
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: there's so much shame attached still to this day to menstruating,
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 3: and people who mensrate are conditioned to think like, oh,
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: keep this a secret, and.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 5: Yeah, don't talk about it, don't complain about it, right,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 5: and it's killing you.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 3: Which the day that I did my first watch of
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: this movie, and this is perhaps TMI, but I am
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: trying to normalize like talking about uterus stuff, talking about menstruation.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 3: I talk to like my cisman friends all the time
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: about my period because I'm just like they need to
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 3: hear this and they need to understand what the fuck
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 3: is happening. Yeah, But the same day that I did
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 3: my first watch of this movie, I had an IUD
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 3: inserted because my periods are so painful and I've been
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 3: on this like ongoing journey of just like how can
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 3: I not have periods anymore? So with that like personal experience,
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, I do get to some degree that
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 3: there could and maybe should be like horror movies and
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 3: body horror movies about menstruation, because like it can be
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 3: a very horrific experience, to the fact that I'm like,
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 3: when can I have a hysterectomy so I don't have
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 3: to deal with this anymore? It is like ruining my life.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 3: But because there's all this history with shame surrounding menstruation
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 3: and then like likening that to this evil hunger in
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 3: you of where wolf is, I don't know. I'm kind
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: of all over the place with how I feel about it.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: What I feel more certain that I don't like is
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 3: the movie also likening being an evil were wolf to
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 3: contracting an SDI. Yeah, that's the problem I think I
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 3: have with the movie. But it's sort of all over
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 3: the place.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 5: This movie is doing a lot, and I say that
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 5: in appraising way, Like I think it is like horror
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 5: movies are the best place to do a lot. It's
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 5: the best place to like explore themes like shame and
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 5: fear and you know, all this amazing stuff. I think that, Yeah,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 5: where the like werewolf metaphor diverted in certain points I
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 5: thought got a little bit muddled and was like because
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 5: they were trying to do and because they were doing
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 5: so much the metaphor was representing like three or four
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 5: different things at certain points. Yeah, and some of the
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 5: angles worked for me, The puberty angle works for me,
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 5: you know. But the STI think felt very dated and
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 5: shamey and just like sort of extended to a shame
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 5: around sex, the conflation of assaults, and like a lot
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 5: of the like sex base metaphors really kind of fell
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 5: flat for me and were uncomfortable to watch in the future.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 4: I don't know, Olivia, what do you what do you
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 4: make of it? As a longtime fan, I got a
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 4: lot of.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: Thoughts, so I can understand the criticism and being uncomfortable
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: with the likening werewolf ism, especially to girl female puberty.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: And I'm trying to say female specifically as a sex
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: term like female male, not as a gender term, just
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: to be very clear. I will say though, part of
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: what I think why this movie has such a cult
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: following is because we are shamed for our periods. And
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: the read I got from this movie was the power
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: in puberty. And that's how like I think, because I
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: totally understand I'll star interpretation. As you were talking, it
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: was like, yeah, that is you know, upsetting, But for
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: me watching and also just how clinically minstruation was talked about.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: To me, the other characters, the mom, the nurse, there
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: was no shame in them talking about puberty and about periods,
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: and it feels like, even though the girls are grossed
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: out by it, the movie itself is not necessarily shaming.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 3: In my opinion, I tend to agree, yeah.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the trope of the werewoll virus as an STD.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: That has got a comment because not only do I
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: watch a lot of horror movies, I watch a lot
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: of horror shows with monsters, with vampires, with everything, and
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: I have never explored the negativity of that. It's just
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: always been what it is. And part of that too,
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: is like turning into these monsters usually means implying losing
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: your soul at the same time, which is how they're
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: able to do these horrific acts like sexual assault without remorse.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: So I agree with also Jamie that the movie is
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: using the metaphor of verbalism a little timity directions. It's
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: a lot to take it, so I don't know if
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: I'm necessarily against using the monsterness as an STD. My
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: interpretation was also the emphasis on just using protection during
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: sex too. That's Also, this movie is somewhat felt like
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: an ad for safe sex as well, and I ever
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: wrote down too, I was like, this is more comprehensive
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: about menstruation than most public schools. Again though I think
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: that's because they're in Canada.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 4: God, but I don't know.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 5: Never forget the abortion episode of Degrassi they were not
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 5: allowed to show in the States.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 4: Yep, my cousin and I had to buy a pirated
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 4: DVD off of eBay after we stole my aunt's credit card.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 3: Wow, beautiful story. For me, the problem is with how
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 3: historically STIs have been similar to menstruation shamed, and so
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 3: much stigma and shame is attached to having an STI.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 3: That to Liken like getting infected with some horrible monsterism
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 3: and becoming this soul is demon being beast likening that
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 3: to having an STI and because of the context, so
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 3: much shame is attached to having an STI. That's where
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 3: therein lies the problem for me.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 5: I was leaning toward that read as well, and it
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 5: is like this movie is so tricky because there are
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 5: so many ways to see it. Where I was trying
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 5: to imagine how I would feel about like internalized shame
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 5: about periods. If I saw this movie when I was
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 5: like fifteen, and I really don't think it would have
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 5: made me feel ashamed. I think it would have been like,
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 5: I think, more just like a super like teenager.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 4: Yes, like you know.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 5: Cathartic, like first of all, seeing menstruation represented on screen,
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 5: and I think Olivia, like you were saying earlier, as
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 5: it being something that makes you, yes, unstable, but also
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 5: extremely powerful, and like seeing it not presented in the
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 5: way that you ordinarily see menstruation presented as something that
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 5: makes you like fall into these real hysterical tropes.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 4: And because we're like with these characters.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 5: It's like, I agree with you read Caitlin, and I
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 5: also like, I don't know, it's so easy to like.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 5: I feel like I keep going back and forth on
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 5: how to feel about it, and it does feel like
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 5: a movie that really depends on like the individual, because
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 5: it doesn't feel like it's trying to shame you about it.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 5: And I thought it was interesting how the different views
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 5: in the way that menstruation's presented. I think like one
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 5: of the things that does really well is like the
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 5: very like so.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 4: Yes, your body's going to gush and it's going to hurt.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 5: Like that sort of presented at school and at home
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 5: of like it's okay, it's all good, it's actually awesome,
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 5: and like that to me like represented the internalized shame.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 5: I mean, they're not ashamed of it necessarily because they
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 5: are talking about it, but they're not talking about it honestly.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 5: And I feel like, you know, the werewolf narrative is
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 5: closer to talking about it honestly, is like brutal and confusing.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 4: And bucked up blah blah blah.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 5: And but yeah, I don't know the STI I think
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 5: I just wish that it was maybe even talked about
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 5: a little differently, because it did feel like there was
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 5: some shamey language attributed to it. Yeah, and then outside
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 5: of that, yeah, I think with regards to sex, I
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 5: mean it's weird because there's like lines that in isolation
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 5: you're like, oh, that's kind of cool, where you know,
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 5: Ginger is talking about the first time she's had sex
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 5: and we'll talk about what that actually means, but like
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 5: that she's like, oh, it was like kind of disappointing, and.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 3: Like I loved that little monologue. I wrote it down
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 3: and I'm like, exactly.
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 5: Right, Like that's like a very cathartic thing for uh yeah,
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 5: having sex with his men. It's often disappointing, and I
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 5: really like, I liked that line and that monologue, but
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 5: she's responding to she assaulted Jason and Jason while in isolation.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 5: In those scenes where he's very aggressive and really like
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 5: acting out in the sort of the typical pubuscan teenage
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 5: boy way of just like irrational anger directed at women,
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 5: often he becomes a villain without taking into consideration the
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 5: fact that he was assaulted into this predicament in the
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 5: first place, which I don't know if it is the
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 5: time it's being written in. It just felt like the
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 5: we know that it's not right that Ginger did that,
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 5: but I just that's sat weird with me.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's it's a rape scene that is not
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 3: framed as being a rape scene because I think, in
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 3: part because it's a woman being the aggressor and a
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 3: man as a victim, and that is so rarely, especially
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 3: at this time, would that have been even considered rape
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 3: or assault because the roles are quote unquote reversed.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: I have one final thought about the STI that I
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: took known on, and again I think the reason because
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: I agree with all of your reads, and that has
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: actually made me think differently about it. However, the only
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: other thing I wanted to say is that before this movie,
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: both in horror and just like regular movie and TV shows,
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: whenever teenagers have sex, it's always the girl that suffers consequences,
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: whether it's being pregnant or the social aspect of being
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: labeled a slut or whatever. This is one of the
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: few times that a boy suffers actual consequences from sex now,
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: and I'm just saying that's a good or bad thing.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: That's just an observation I made this time. And I
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: think if I were to guess that was the purpose
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: of it being presented as STI was to subvert the
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: trope of boys suffering no consequences when they have sex.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: I don't agree with it, but I think that for me,
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: I think that was maybe the point of it, maybe
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: the intention.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I feel like that if there were some adjustments,
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 5: it would like have scanned clear, because you do you see
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 5: Jason struggle with what happened to him. I mean, he
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 5: was like assaulted by Ginger, and then you see him
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 5: do I think what he thinks he's supposed to do,
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 5: which is go to the other guys and be like, yeah,
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 5: that like she like rocked my world or like whatever
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 5: weird data slang he us is to describe sex. But
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 5: you can tell he's really upset by it, but he's
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 5: acting in the way he's supposed to it, and that
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 5: feels very intentional, and then you see it's fucked him
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 5: up irrevocably, and in one way, I appreciate that this
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 5: movie has basically no empathy for men whatsoever except for
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 5: Sam occasion, but Jason's character. I was like, yeah, I
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 5: mean I hear what you're saying, Olivia, and I think
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 5: that that makes a lot of sense in a landscape
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 5: where this would never be considered, because like centering, and
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 5: that was like an interesting part of researching. The production
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 5: of this movie was really I mean, it was up
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 5: and down, but in general, Emily Perkins has talked a
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 5: lot about it, and from the beginning was like out
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 5: there saying like this is a feminist horror movie, like
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 5: there are not.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 4: A lot of movies like it. It's like it's very
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 4: important to me.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 5: And I was talking about the onset experience as like
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 5: the two male leads kind of being weirded out at first,
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 5: because they never participated in a project where men hadn't
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 5: been centered. And it took like a couple of days
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 5: for the two lead actresses to like kind of not
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 5: like lay down the law, but like be like, this.
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 4: Is our movie. It's about the stars of the movie.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 4: And they were like, you know, and.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 5: It seems like the relationships between the actors were fine,
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 5: but they were just like they were kind of thrown
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 5: for a loop, which like really speaks to the nineteen
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 5: ninety nine of it. All other stuff I was finding
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 5: was unfortunately the difficult part of production that I found.
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 5: And this isn't something that the actor who plays Ginger,
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 5: Catherine Isabel, like looks back on as like something that
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 5: was particularly scarring, but she.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 4: Didn't mention it in interviews.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 5: Was that particularly in that rape scene because she was
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 5: seventeen when she was playing that part and there was
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 5: no intimacy coordinator. She said that she was like she
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 5: hadn't had sex before at that time and was like
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 5: pretty confused about like what she was supposed to be doing.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 4: She was uncomfortable.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 5: She like took a shot of cinnamon whiskey before because
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 5: she was so nervous and like, I don't know very
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 5: like dated. I feel like you hear stories like that
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 5: on in d sets, but it always just I don't know,
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 5: if you can't afford an intimacy coordinator, maybe way, maybe
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 5: wait to make your movie if you want to make
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 5: a rape scene that is perpetrated by a teenager.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, there's so many levels of concerning things happening there.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 3: Also, I mean, I don't know how common practice it
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 3: even was twenty five years ago to have intimacy coordinators.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 5: I don't think it like even until like the last
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 5: ten years it was popular. Yeah, I mean, so that's
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 5: not like, I mean, I don't mean to like specifically
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 5: call out this movie, but especially because it was an
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 5: underage actor, like that's yeah, that's challenging.
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 4: The other thing that I just thought was worth mentioning.
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 5: It's not a criticism of the movie, but just to
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 5: like set this in time, was that this movie was
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 5: a flop at the box office, which is ridiculous. It's
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 5: an awesome movie, but they also had a lot of
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 5: difficulty getting it made in the first place. Because this
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 5: movie was being went into production around the time that
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 5: the Columbine shooting happened, and so I found a Guardian
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 5: interview from a couple of years ago that sort of
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 5: contextualizes the culture that this was coming into. So this
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 5: comes from John Fawcett. He says we were prepping for
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 5: Ginger Snaps the same year as the Columbine shooting. There
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 5: was a lot of focus in the media on how
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 5: movies made kids violent, and the idea of a bloody
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 5: film set in a high school didn't go down too
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 5: well with casting directors in Canada. Some of them joined
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 5: forces to boycott our film, and the National Post ran
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 5: an article on it. All the schools we asked turned
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 5: us down, but luckily another film production had just a
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 5: set of three tiny school highways that we could shoot on.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 5: We sent Scarlett Johanson a script to see if she
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 5: was interested in Bridget, but her mother had read the
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 5: National Post article and didn't want her daughter involved. So
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 5: I feel like this also intersects with a lot of
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 5: satanic panic stuff and like kind of the tail end.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 4: Of that period.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 5: And also it was just wild to think about young
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 5: Scarlett Johansson in this movie.
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: That's crazy. I can't imagine. Isabel does such a good job,
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: and she's also kind of gone on to be a
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: kind of a horror Royalty. She's in a lot of
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: other horror movies and she does a fantastic job on them.
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: But yeah, it is very interesting to think of Scarlett
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: Johansson in this role. Actually, recently, sorry, totally going off
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: the track, I recently rewatched eight like it freaks. I
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: don't know why I was. She is in it. It's
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: again a very young Scarlet Johansson, and she is hilarious
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: in it. Her character is mostly like fighting off her
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: boyfriend and she tases him and the genitals at some
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: point because he won't take Noah's an answer. It is
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: a much funnier film than I was expecting it to be.
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 4: Damn.
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 3: Okay, Yeah, I've never seen it.
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: It's interesting. The CTI holds up pretty well too. But anyway,
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: it's interesting to think of Scarlett Johansson turning into a werewolf.
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: I want to get back to the weird sexual politics
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: of the movie, because they do really feel all over
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: the place to me, where maybe it would have worked
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: a lot better for me if her becoming a werewolf
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: coincides with her men'st writing for the first time, and
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: then that also coincides with like she's embracing and being
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: empowered by her sexuality like she perhaps didn't before, because
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: we do see that to some extent where she seems
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: even though she describes like I thought I was really
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: hungry for sex, but I just want to eat dogs
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: or whatever. But you also see her be something that
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: you could interpret as like sexually liberated and embracing her sexuality,
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: and she's doing it in a way that is often
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: assaulting people because similar to the scene with Jason, she
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: also assaults Sam because we see neither of them consent
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: to it. We see neither Jason nor Sam. They're saying no, oh, stop,
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: like don't do that, all this stuff, and she's like
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: powering past them saying no. But with Sam, he like
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: pushes her off of him, and his not giving consent
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: is like respected by the movie, where I don't know
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: whereas like it's treated differently with Jason.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 5: Because it's like we're just supposed to think Jason is bad,
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 5: so if something horrific happens to him, it doesn't matter,
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 5: which is like, I don't I would be really surprised
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 5: if that scene was interpreted in the same way today, right.
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 3: But Sam is also bad because we learn and this
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 3: kind of blink and you miss it almost because like
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 3: we're meant to feel empathetic toward him because he's helping
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 3: the sisters out with this werewolf problem, and it's not
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 3: even though he's reluctantly helping them out, because I feel
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 3: like generally you would see a male character who is
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 3: helping women or girls do so very really reluctantly, but
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 3: he's like approaching them and being like, let's figure this out,
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 3: let's find the cure. And Yeah. Then there's a scene
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 3: between Trina and Bridget where Trina tells her because Trina's like,
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 3: she thinks like maybe Sam and Bridget are dating, and
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 3: she seems jealous of it at first, but then she
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 3: confides in Bridget that Sam I think. She calls him
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 3: a cherry chaser, meaning he only goes after virgins, and
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 3: basically implies that Trina had sex with him, like lost
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 3: her virginity to him, and then he cast her aside
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 3: and she feels awful about it.
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 5: We do see that scene where she tries to talk
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 5: to him and he ignores her.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 3: He's very dismissive. Yeah, for sure. So you find this
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 3: out about Sam, so then when he dies, you're like,
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 3: good riddance, But it's weird that that isn't I guess
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 3: called more attention to or that that.
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: So I read that similar to Jennifer's Body. Also, I
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: did write down our quote Ginger snapped, so Jennifer could
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: body Jennifer's body, like really, I mean, obviously this was
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: a small Canadian hit, but it was definitely a precursor
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: to a Jennifer's Body movie. I interpreted that similar to
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: Jennifer's Body, and that there are many instances throughout the movie,
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: even at the very beginning when Bridget is getting a
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: little bit of attention from the janitor and he is
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: so clearly just wanting to help her, there's no other pretense.
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: But then Ginger comes up and says, he's staring down
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: your shirt. We as the audience know that wasn't happening
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: at all, and Ginger herself more than likely knows that
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: wasn't happening. But because of their codependency and because of
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: her jealousy and almost obsessiveness with their sisters sisterhood, anything
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: Bridget has, Ginger has to have. So that's how I
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: interpreted this, particularly the Sam assault, is that because Sam
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: was giving Bridget a ten, then that means Ginger had
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: to have his attention, even though I don't think she
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: even wanted to sleep with him. I think at that
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: point she really just wanted to rip him apart. I
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: think too, the way that his was respected more is
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: because he was older technically, and there is some authority
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: with being older. I don't really know, but I'm with
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: you on that one. The reactions to it, to the
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: handling of both was.
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 5: Interesting, especially because I mean otherwise, like, if we're supposed
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 5: to empathize with Sam more so than Jason, I mean,
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 5: it still doesn't make you Jason being assaulted, right, but
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 5: why go out of the way to tell us that
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 5: Sam is kind of a scumbag if that's the case.
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 5: I think what was interesting this connects to Karen Walton
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 5: quote is like, I think we are as the audience
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 5: because it's sort of because, like Ginger keeps saying it
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 5: that we're like supposed to maybe be perceiving some sort
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 5: of romance between Sam and Bridget because they are boy
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 5: and girl hanging out and that's how that goes in
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 5: these movies. But I do think it's interesting that they
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 5: like that does not go anywhere, and there was an
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 5: interview done with Karen Walton a couple of years ago
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 5: in Bloody Disgusting by Tatiana Tenrero, who just out and
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 5: out asks many queer fans consider a Bridget to be
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 5: a queer heroine? Do you think of her as a
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 5: character who is queer? And Karen Walton replies, you know
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 5: what's funny that question I've been asked before, but really
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 5: in the last few years people have started asking me
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 5: that again. Stories have changed and the way you're reading
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 5: that character has evolved. I always like to say about Bridget, however,
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 5: you imagine her life after this movie as absolutely true.
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 5: I don't want to overdescribe what people could in their
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 5: hearts put on her, but I definitely don't think she
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 5: was the straightest individual. She's probably a little queer. Probably,
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 5: I mean, she's so far from thinking about who she
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 5: would date at that point in her life, or like
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 5: wanting to be with or being in love. It's just
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 5: not happened for her yet. I suppose I wouldn't say
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 5: it isn't possible that she's queer. Excellent basive answer by
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 5: Karen Walton. But I mean again, I think that a
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 5: movie I would like less probably a movie written by
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 5: a man perceiving teenage girls. And again, just keeping in
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 5: mind that we just covered Jawbreaker, would default to like,
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 5: let's make this relationship explicitly romantic. That will introduce conflict
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 5: between Ginger and Bridget. But I think what is more interesting,
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 5: even though it does lead to some problematic places, is
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 5: not that a relationship is actually happening, but that Ginger
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 5: perceives a relationship as happening and retaliates anyways.
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 4: And it's not like Bridget is like, do I choose
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 4: my sister or my boyfriend? Like She's always going to
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 4: choose Ginger, no doubt about it.
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 5: But it's how Ginger reacts to her sister just I mean,
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 5: really just like forming a relationship outside of theirs that
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 5: I feel like causes her to retaliate in this really
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 5: violent way.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 4: It's just a more interesting choice.
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I kept calling him weed guy in my notes
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: because I could not remember. Also, their relationship was barely
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: between Sam and Bridget, barely platonic to be honest.
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 3: They weren't like hanging out as friends, right, yeah.
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 4: Pretty utilitarian?
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: Right. Utilitarian is such an excellent word, and I couldn't
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: find it because in my notes, I was like, because
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: I also like to read comic books and I like
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: superhero movies, and it feels like there's a fun trope
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: sometimes in those where it's two superheroes who don't like
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: each other really but they have to work together. And
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: that's what Sam and Bridget felt to me. Like Bridget
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: thinks he's older and gross and doesn't want to be
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: around him at all, And it's so clear Sam sees
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: her as a child and is treating her as such.
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: So and it's not even like a brother sister relationship either.
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 1: So it's a very unique dynamic that is I feel
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: really seen of like a utilitarian made up outside of
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: the comic book superhero genre.
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 5: Because he's he's useful to the extent that he has
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 5: weed knowledge, like he just that is his funk.
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 3: He knows about herbs.
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: He has needles apparently, right.
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 3: He's got drug paraphernalia or wolf Spain, yeah, wolf hood
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 3: or whatever it's called. Yeah. I wanted to give a
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 3: quick shout out to Ginger, acknowledging that they probably won't
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 3: get caught for this at least, you know, pre a
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 3: few other of Ginger's murders. But there's a point. It's
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 3: like right after Trina has died, and it's basically Ginger's fault,
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 3: where Ginger's like, you know, no one ever thinks chicks
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 3: do stuff like this. Girls can be a slut bitch
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 3: teas or the virgin next door parentheses, but no one
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 3: will expect us of being murderers. And then she says,
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 3: we'll just coast on the way the world works, aka,
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 3: like the double standards and the sexism and they you know,
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 3: gendered assumptions people make about women.
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: And that felt very parallel to a moment later on
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: when the mom discovers the body and rather than turn
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: her daughters in, you know, she's gonna ride or die
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: and burn the house down with the dad and apparently
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: kill her husband.
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 3: Pam, Yeah, she's like, I don't give a shit about dad.
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: Parallels with that moment because you know, you see Bridget
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: finally have sympathy for Pam and she says, it's not
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: your fault, None of this is your fault. And Pam says, well,
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: the world will say it is. Everyone will say it's
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: my fault. And I felt like you just can't escape
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: that sexism, whether it's in girlhood, teenagehood, or adulthood. And
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: I just I really liked those two moments, especially being
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: thirty minutes after each other pretty much.
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I agree that because I was getting like
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 5: Pam is like a great comic relief character. She's such
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 5: an exaggerated like who is genuinely doing her best, but
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 5: is doing what she thinks she's supposed to do instead
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 5: of actually listening to her kids, right, which is a
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 5: lot of parents, and there is there seem to be
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 5: like some degree of internalized misogyny with her as well,
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 5: And it's like kind of made a joke of that
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 5: the parents' relationship isn't very good and whatever, like all
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 5: these like kind of goofy divorced jokes, right, But I
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 5: really liked that she got a beat at the end
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 5: of like because you know, Ginger says stuff like that,
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 5: and the way that women are perceived is so drawn
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 5: attention to. I feel like it would have really stuck
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 5: out like a sore thumb if Pam never got any
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 5: characterization outside of being kind of like a clueless mom
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 5: from a Disney.
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 4: Channel show basically.
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 5: But you do get that moment from her where yeah,
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 5: she's she loves her daughters, you know, like and that
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 5: she's like willing to sacrifice whatever it takes to protect
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 5: her daughters. And you know, I'm sure Trina's family may disagree,
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 5: but but I just thought that was a cool way
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 5: without even taking a lot of time to show that,
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 5: Like it's kind of Pam putting on a show. She's
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 5: doing what she thinks she's supposed to do, and the
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 5: fact that she will be perceived by the world a
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 5: certain way no matter what she says, no matter what
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 5: she does. So I appreciated that being there at the end.
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 5: I wonder what becomes of her? And what do you
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 5: remember what becomes of her in the second movie.
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: So the second movie picks up right after this one,
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: Bridget runs away and that's when you learn too not
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: to be a blummer. But the cure doesn't really work.
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 1: It kind of just staves off the symptoms, and she
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 1: is up. She's committed because she's a minor. She's found
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: in a hotel room by herself. She has no identification
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: on her, so the police catch her and commit her
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: to a mental health hospital, and that's actually where most
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: of the movie takes place. So most of the movies
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: her actually trying to escape the hospital and very young
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: Tatiana Maslani is in it. That one is not written
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 1: by Karen Walton. The two sequels are not written by her.
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: I think she gets character by credits for the second one.
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: I say that because the second one is not good.
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 1: I did not enjoy it. I do not rewatch it.
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 1: It also, similar to Dog Soldiers, takes a really weird
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: misogynistic turn at the end that doesn't quite match everything
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: that has led up to it. But that's what. So
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: nothing on the mom as far as we know, she's
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: still with her husband. Interesting, hasn't burned down the house yet.
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 5: Bummer, Yeah, yeah, I know. I've got one more thing
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 5: to add really quickly. I just wanted to share from
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 5: an essay by a writer named Logan Ashley Kinser, who's
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 5: a trans writer, wrote about the different transreads of this movie.
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 5: We can link it in the description as well. It's
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 5: from their newsletter, but basically i'll summarize it a bit
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 5: that you know, Ginger's transformation has been perceived as a
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 5: transgender coming out story, and just I wanted to read
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 5: this specific thick line because it really hit for me.
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 5: Of reading Ginger as transgender is not the easy reading,
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 5: but it is the most common her arc is about
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 5: the trauma of puberty, and that can also be expanded
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 5: upon to be about the trauma of the wrong puberty.
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 5: So even though this is like a pretty CIS focused
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 5: metaphor that a lot of trans viewers have seen themselves
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 5: in that as well, they go on to describe that
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 5: the read that affected them the most was Bridget as
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 5: a trans masculine character, which was the read that was
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 5: not presented really in anything they'd ever seen. And yeah,
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 5: so I we'll link to that in the description as well,
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 5: but it was a really thorough, really interesting read that
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 5: you know, I don't think was the intended But also
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 5: that's like what's so wonderful about about genre movies, is
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 5: it just it really opens it up to all sorts
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 5: of reading.
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: And yeah, guy Peace, absolutely, Yeah nice.
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 3: This movie does pass the Bechdel test.
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, several times.
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 3: So many times they're talking about being where wolves, they're
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 3: talking about wolf's bane, herbs or whatever the fuck the
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 3: herb is called. Yeah, there's there's lots of conversations that
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 3: pass between various characters, the sisters, the sisters and their mom,
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 3: the sisters in Trina, So lots of passes as far
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 3: as our nipple scale goes, and I feel like there's like,
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 3: there's so much to talk about with this movie. We've
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 3: just kind of run out of time. But uh so
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 3: if we missed anything, We're curious if you know, listeners
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 3: have any other thoughts. But in the meantime our nipples
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 3: scale where we rate the movie on a scale of
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 3: zero to five nipples based on examining the movie through
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 3: an intersectional feminist lene, I think I'll go three with
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 3: this one. I think there's lots of interesting things that
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 3: we haven't seen before, not only in this specific werewolf
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 3: subgenre of horror, but like horror as a broader genre,
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 3: because especially with like teen girls and their sexuality, horror
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 3: has such a sordid history with that concept, and this movie,
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 3: you could argue, is like playing into some of those
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 3: specific tropes and then other reductive, harmful tropes when it
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 3: comes to bodies and sexuality and it's not really framing
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 3: assault as assaults and things like that. There's lots of stuff,
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 3: but I like the read of if you take away
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 3: the weird sexual politics of this movie, and it's just
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 3: like a person getting their period at the same time
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 3: they become a wolf. That is almost the plot of
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 3: Turning Red. It's just a different genre. So and I
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 3: really like that movie. So I think it's just like
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 3: the sexual politics of this movie being all over the
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 3: place that kind of takes some of the nippleage off
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 3: for me. It's also a very white movie, and the
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 3: only I think character of color is.
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 4: Killed is the janitor who is brutally murdering.
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 1: Correct.
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and that murder feels like more long and drawn
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 3: out and like reveling in the violence of it more
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 3: than other characters who get killed. So that sucks. But yeah,
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 3: I'll give it three nipples. One goes to Ginger's monologue
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 3: where she describes heterosex as it wasn't like I thought
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 3: it would be. There was all this squirming and squealing,
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 3: and then he's done, and then you're like, oh, hilarious
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 3: way to describe heterosex. I'll give my other second nipple
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 3: to her calling Jason Jeff in that scene, which either
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 3: the filmmakers didn't notice or it was just her not
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 3: knowing what that guy's names caring either way is pretty funny.
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 3: And then I'll give my third nipple to Norman the
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 3: dog Rip.
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 5: I'm gonna go a little higher on this one. I'm
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 5: tempted to go closer to four. I think I'll go
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 5: three point seven five.
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 4: Maybe a little too.
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 5: Generous, because I do agree that that the sexual politics
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 5: angle of this movie like didn't super work for me
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 5: for all of the reasons we discussed, but I also
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 5: just have never seen a movie like this. I think that,
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 5: especially for its time, it's taking a lot of big
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 5: swings and like connecting more often than not. I wish
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 5: I had seen this movie when I was a teenager.
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 5: I think I really would have loved it. And yeah,
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 5: I mean, I think just like a really singularly good
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 5: portrayal of codependent sisterhood, which is something that I've definitely
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 5: experienced with my cousins, and something that feels like, I mean,
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 5: even when it's unbelievably toxic, you can still feel this
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 5: intense love and this kind of trauma bond that can
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 5: only exist between people who have grown up in a
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 5: dysfunctional household. And I just like more of that, please,
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 5: with less of the messy sexual politics. And just like Olivia,
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 5: speaking to your point, I also viewed werewolf movies as
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 5: kind of like a masculine subgenre that I didn't have
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 5: much interest in and this movie is a lot of things,
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 5: but masculine is not one of them. So I'm gonna
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 5: go I think three point seventy five. I'm gonna give
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 5: one to Ginger, one to Bridget, one to Karen Walton,
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 5: and the remainder to that poor goalie whose dog died.
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 3: H Olivia. How about you?
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: I would give this even more generous, and it's completely
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: bias because I did see this movie when I was
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 1: a teenager and it meant a lot to me, seeing
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: the complicatedness of puberty. Really that I don't think, you know,
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: because girls don't get to be angry without it being
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: taken seriously. A lot of our intense emotions are just
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 1: seen as freely and this movie does not do that
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 1: for sure. So I would give it four nipples, maybe
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 1: even close to four and a half. But the reason
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: I don't give it a full five is because of
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: the sexual politics, because even this time around, every time
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: with those sex scenes, it just feels icky. And I
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 1: think I reconcile that with the notion of the closer
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 1: you become to the monster, the more you lose your humanity.
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 1: But even then, how necessary were they And also a
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 1: very white movie. You know, I get it's Canada, and
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 1: I think when a lot of people think of Canada
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: they think of white people, that there's so many other
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 1: people who live in Canada. There was no reason for
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 1: this to be a completely all white cast aside from
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: it just being two thousand, right or nineteen ninety nine
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: when they were filming. And I would give one nipple
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 1: to Ginger, one to bridge it, one to Pam every
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 1: time I watched this movie, I love her even more,
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 1: and then I'll give my last one to the janitor
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 1: every time. His is so sad. Oh, and I wanted
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 1: to say one more thing too. I've watched this movie
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 1: several times, and now that I have more knowledge of
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 1: just you know, being older and being around more different people,
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: I also got the trans read this time. It was
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 1: really it really came out stronger this time. So I
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 1: love that every time you watch this movie, there's so
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 1: many different layers to relate to and talk about. So
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 1: I just am really appreciative that I got to come
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 1: on here and talk about a movie I love so much.
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, We're so happy to have you come
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 3: back anytime.
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: Thanks.
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 3: Where can people follow you on social media's or anything
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 3: else you'd like to plug.
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: Yes, I am usually doing some fun stuff. I am
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 1: in charge of the Native American cultural programming for Texas
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 1: Native Health, which is an Indian health services clinic in Dallas.
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 1: So if you're a Native creative, I'd love you to
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: reach out and see if we can bring you down
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 1: to Texas. So you can follow me on Instagram at
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: Live Native ninety three and it's the same on Twitter.
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 3: Beautiful. Oh, it's always a joy to have you, and.
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's trying to be on here. Y'all are so
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 1: fun to talk to you, and you.
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 3: Can follow us on social media, especially Instagram, I ever
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 3: heard of it? At Bechdel Cast, we've also got a
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 3: little thing called a Matreon Okay, ever heard And that's
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 3: at patreon dot com slash Bechdel Cast, where you can
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 3: get two bonus episodes every single month, always centering a
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 3: brilliant genius theme that Jamie and I cook up. And
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 3: this month, because it's spooky movie season, we are treating
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 3: everybody with a little episode on Pearl and another little
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 3: episode on the Exorcist.
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 4: I am very very very excited.
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 5: Two movies we've gotten my lotter request for, especially Pearl,
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 5: to be sure to check it out. You can also
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 5: get our merch over on teapublic dot com slash the
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 5: be Bechdel Cast. Don't forget it's never too late to
• 1:40:33
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• 1:40:37
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• 1:40:41
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• 1:40:44
  Speaker 4: So just things to consider. And with that, Kitlin, why
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 4: don't we.
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 3: Get our periods, get and become werewolves?
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 4: Get our period and have that signal the beginning of
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 4: the end.
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 3: Wow, let's do it. Okay, Bye, Hey Thane. The Bechdelcast
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 3: is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Derante and
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 3: Jamie Loftis, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Mola Board.
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 3: Our theme song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 3: by Katherine Voskresenski. Our logo in merch is designed by
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 3: Jamie Loftis and a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo. For
• 1:41:25
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• 1:41:28
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