Latest / Hurdle with Emily Abbate / 104. Des Linden, 2018 Boston Marathon Champion & 2x Olympian

Transcript

104. Des Linden, 2018 Boston Marathon Champion & 2x Olympian · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: It's a mental strategy where you act as if you
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: are the thing you're trying to become. So for me
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: that was I am a Boston champion and every day
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: for three months, you know, I went out and practiced
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: like a champion. I ate like a champion, I slept
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: like a champion, like whatever it was, it was like,
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: is this is this what a Boston Marathon champion would do?
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: Hey, Hurdlers, Emily a body here with episode one oh
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: four of Hurdle, a wellness focused podcast where I sit
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: down with inspiring individuals to talk about everything from their
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: big wins to how they've gotten through some of life's
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: toughest moments. On the show, you can expect vulnerability, motivation,
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: and candid discussions with everyone from top athletes to aspiring
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: entrepreneurs on what it really takes to follow you your passions.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: My mission is simple to inspire you to be your
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: best self, move with intention, and have some fun along
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: the way. Today I am bringing you a conversation that
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: could not be better timed as today was the original
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty run date for the Boston Marathon. If I
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: could hear you on the other end of this thing,
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: I know you are excited, because I am excited to
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Today I am chatting with the ever lovely Dez Lindon,
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: pro runner, twenty eighteen Boston Marathon champ, and total rock
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: star upfront. I am just going to tell you right
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: off the bat. When I edit the show, I earmark
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: all of the different moments that I could see being
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: pull quotes, you know, the gems of wisdom from guests
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: that make me go yes out loud. I marked way
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: too many to count in this episode. I've known Dez
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: for a few years now, and this opportunity us sitting
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: down one on one has been something that I have
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: looked forward to for quite some time. I want to
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: get into all of this goodness as soon as possible,
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: so I'll just give you a quick overview here on Dez. Today,
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: she is without a doubt, leading the charge in American
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: woman's distance running, and in this week's episode, we talk
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: about how she got there growing up in San Diego
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: running in college at Arizona State, she knew from a
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: young age that this sport was her sport. Today, she
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: talks me through so many of her career milestones, the good,
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: including that famous Boston win on the worst weather day
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: ever and the bad the London Olympics, and an entire
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: month in twenty seventeen when she went without lacing up
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  Speaker 2: even once. Like I said, the takeaways in this one
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: are endless, and we also talk about what's next for her,
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: which might just require this lady to pick up the
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: pace before we get into it. Taking just a few
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: minutes to call out my sponsors and then bringing you
• 3:06
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• 3:10
  Speaker 2: importance of adequately fueling your body as one piece of
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  Speaker 2: media if you like what you're listening to. I am
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: at Emily a Body and of course at Hurdle Podcast.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: If you have a hurdle moment of your own to share,
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: or you just want to say hi, maybe send a
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: love letter. I'm all ears over email as well. It's
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: Emily at hurdle dot us. With that, let's get to
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: hurdling today. I'm sitting down with Dez Lindon. She is
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: a two time Olympian, the twenty eighteen Boston Marathon champion,
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  Speaker 2: a household name when it comes to running. How are
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: you doing there?
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  Speaker 1: Does I'm doing all right? Thanks for having me on.
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  Speaker 2: I've been looking forward to this for a while. That
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: feels like a total, total understatement. My first question for
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  Speaker 2: you today is what does showing up look like? Right now?
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  Speaker 1: Staying home is showing up, which is okay. I think
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: it is an always changing, evolving thing and it's what
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: we need to do at the moment. So showing up
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: is using this time wisely and figuring out how to
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: make the best of it for you. For me, that's
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: just doing some base mileage, going out, enjoying fresh air,
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: and then we'll switch gears soon and maybe just find
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: a way to be productive and get a little bit
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  Speaker 1: better during this time. And I think that might be
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: a speed segment.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: So when you say a speed segment for you, what
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: does something like that look.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, back in the day that was like a three
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: k or a five k. Now it'll be a ten k.
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  Speaker 1: So I haven't been on the track in a really
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  Speaker 1: long time and just turning the legs over really quickly.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: The Olympic Trials is kind of looming out there, and
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: I was just curious if I could even you know,
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: get the standard and be in that race. And so
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: we'll have a chance to find out and I might
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: start realize that's a horrible idea and I hate it.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: So we'll find out some stuff right now.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: We'll find out some stuff right now. Okay, So I
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: would love to kick us off today by actually dialing
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: it back back and talking about the humble beginnings of DEAs.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: So let's bring it back.
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  Speaker 1: I was a soccer player as a young kid, through
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: and through. I started when I was about five and
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  Speaker 1: loved it. But I'm still small to this day, so
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  Speaker 1: I haven't done all the growing up, and I was
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: a pretty small kid when I started, so it was
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: kind of survival. In order to survive soccer and be
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: decent at it, I had to be first to the
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  Speaker 1: ball and quick is to get off my foot. So
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  Speaker 1: it was really being faster and running the entire game
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  Speaker 1: and having quick feet.
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  Speaker 2: When it wasn't soccer season, what other things were you doing?
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  Speaker 2: Were you playing other sports? Were you running a little
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  Speaker 2: bit or none of that?
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  Speaker 1: Just none of it just yet. My parents were pretty
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  Speaker 1: strict about having to do some type of activity, whether
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: it was sports or something else. I just really enjoyed
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: soccer and sports in general. So it was for me
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: soccer two seasons, and then softball was the off season,
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  Speaker 1: and I hated it. It was so slow. It was just
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: bad at it. It was too small and the game
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  Speaker 1: was too slow. So the rule was you could never
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  Speaker 1: quit in a season, but after you could decide to
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  Speaker 1: do something else. So after a couple of years of
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  Speaker 1: struggling at softball, I just started decided to start staying
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  Speaker 1: shape for soccer and got into cross country and track.
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  Speaker 2: When you first started out in cross country and track,
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  Speaker 2: were you one of the key players right from the
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: get go or was that something that you had to
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: build up some fitness.
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  Speaker 1: I mean I had a lot in the bank just
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: because I did so much running around the field. But
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  Speaker 1: I joined a team called the MLK Blasters, and it
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  Speaker 1: was a total sprint team one hundred two hundred four
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  Speaker 1: hundred meters specialty, and I was the only distance runner,
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  Speaker 1: so I didn't really have anyone to like measure myself
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  Speaker 1: up against. The coach just kind of like, we'll figure
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  Speaker 1: it out and slowly built a little bit of a
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  Speaker 1: distance program with me and a few other athletes coming
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  Speaker 1: in shortly after. But yeah, I was pretty decent in
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  Speaker 1: the races I would do. But even on that team,
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  Speaker 1: one of my teammates was Money Kenderson, who. If you're
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: from San Diego, you recognize the name. If you're a
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  Speaker 1: fan of track and field, you probably would remember it.
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  Speaker 1: But she made an Olympic team as a high school
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  Speaker 1: or set the high school four hundred meter record I
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  Speaker 1: think several times during her four years in high school.
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  Speaker 1: She was just a phenomenal athlete. So she was the
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  Speaker 1: person kind of setting the bar and she was going
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  Speaker 1: to be an Olympia and you knew as a junior
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  Speaker 1: athlete she was going to be really good. So it
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: was like, even if you were having success, you measured
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  Speaker 1: it up to her and you're like, well, I got
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  Speaker 1: a long way to go.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that's a problem that a lot of
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: us kind of dabble in time and time. Again, it's
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: like that comparison trap, right, So even from a young age,
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  Speaker 2: it's like you're just getting into running and you see
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  Speaker 2: this person totally excelling, and do you have the moments
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: then of I need to be better or at that
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: point is it still just fun and games.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: It was fun and games, and it was also incredibly
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: inspiring because we knew how good Moonique was, but it
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: was okay to dream like, well maybe I could make
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: it to the Olympics one day, or maybe I could
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  Speaker 1: be that good. It was just you know, something real
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: and right next to you where you're like, oh, practice
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: with her every day, why wouldn't I progress to that level?
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  Speaker 1: So for me, maybe I was just kind of naive
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: and silly about it, but it was always pretty fun
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: to be around.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: Did you have an affinity when you were doing all
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: different types of distances for either the quick stuff or
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: the long stuff.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: I loved the fifteen hundred meters, and even as a
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: youth runner like the three K I was like, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: it's kind of long. I don't really want to do
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  Speaker 1: that in eight hundred meters. Fifteen hundred meters that was
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: my sweet spot.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: The sweet spot after high school. You're gearing up to
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: go to college and you go to Arizona State and
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: what's running like for you there?
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: It was super fun. I mean, it was just a
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: great program. I visited a lot of different schools and
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: a lot of really great education based universities, and my
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: parents were like, you're going to get to Arizona State?
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? But I loved the team and
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: they had really come out of no where and taking
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: you know, local kids who weren't world beaters and made
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: them a lot better. And so when I met Walt Drint,
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: the coach there, I was like, this guy seems like
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: a guy who can get people to the next level.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: And that's just what the culture and the experience was.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: The whole time I was there. It was you know,
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: people just having breakthroughs and improving and really getting the
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: best out of themselves. So it was fun to be
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: a part of. In the you know, general mood was
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: that we're going to be great, and we're going to
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: be competing for national championships and you know, top level spots.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: So it was fun to be a part of.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: Did you know while you were in college and pursuing
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: life as a college athlete that you wanted to take
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: that to the next level when you were done there.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: I always enjoyed it and I could compete with, well,
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: you know, train with some really great runners like Amy
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: Hastings at the time, Victoria Jackson. We had you know,
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: multiple packed ten champions at the time, and I could
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: do all the work with them. So it didn't seem
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: far fetch that I could keep going after college and
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: sort of see how far I could go. But I
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: had never had the performance where I knocked it out
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: of the park. That gave me a ton of opportunities
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: to take that next step, just like catching the eye
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: of an agent, earth sponsor, so on and so forth.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: So I always felt it was there. I just hadn't
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: done it quite yet, which made it harder to, you know,
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: take those next few steps.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: So one of the biggest first steps you have after
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: college is the two thousand and seven Boston Marathon, your
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: first big marathon. Do you remember much about that race?
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: I do. It was the nor'easter, so it was like
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: the rainy cold, you know. Buzz around the hotel was
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: that they might cancel it because it's so bad out,
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: and I was really, it's pretty full circle. But I
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: was like this, I've worked so hard for that, and
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: I really, you know, enjoyed the training getting ready for it.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: And actually I was with Hanson's Brooks then, and you know,
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: it was kind of pushed back and forth on how
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: fast I should be running this race. I was like, no,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: I'm ready to go faster and better than you're giving
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: me credit for. And they were kind of like, let's
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: just tick the box and get you one under your
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: belt and moving forward. And so the weather kind of
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: squashed all the arguments and it was like, let's just
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: be conservative. But on race day, it was it was
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: so much fun. I just I was probably one of
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: the only people who was like, these crowds are amazing,
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: this race is amazing, Like I love this experience, and
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: everyone else is like this.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: Is obviously as we kind of equipped about definitely foreshadowing
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: Boston twenty eighteen, but we're not there. Just yeah, So
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: you run this first marathon and from the moment that
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: you cross that finish line, are you hooked? One?
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: I had so much fun. I was like, I love
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: this this events for me, not just twenty six point two,
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: but being in Boston, Like, I just the whole experience
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: was so fun and memorable.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: And then I mean you lead into two thousand and
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: eight when you are headed to your first US Olympic Trials,
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, is that surreal in itself as well?
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean I think getting that done that qualifier
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: in Boston was like, Okay, I can stick with the
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: sport a little bit longer. And then I just really
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: absorbed that training so well and like the consistency of
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: that marathon grind. So when I went to get ready
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: for that Olympic trials. It was just all really flowing
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: together and I was like, I can make this team,
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: Like I actually really think I can make this team,
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: and so one to even be there was a huge
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: moment that I never really expected because the track was
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: so hard to get a spot on the starting lines
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: to hit those times just seemed way out of my reach.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: But the marathon was a little more open, and then
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: when I got into the event, it was like, Oh,
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: I'm actually good at this and maybe I can make
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: an Olympic teams. So it was the first time I
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: really started believing that that was a possibility for me.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: And at this time, give me a snapshot of what
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: your life looks like. Where are you living outside of running?
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: What are you doing?
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was with Hanson's Brooks then, and so with
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: a teamhouse in it was like five or six women training,
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: meeting every morning and training together. And some of my
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: really good friends even to this day were on the
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: team then. So it was great to have people to
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: train with and have similar goals, and honestly, I think
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: we just really raised the bar for each other for
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: so many years. But it kind of started there because
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: we were all believing that it could be us, and
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: you know, we just really pushed each other hard every
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: workout and got ourselves really ready for that. So it
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: was really centered around running. And the only working I
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: was doing was for a small well not small anymore,
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: but an outdoor retailer called bush Jah Mountaineering that's got
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: started in East Lansing, I believe, and they had a
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: few shops in the Michigan area. So I was working
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: at an internet call center doing customer service.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: Emails, other odd jobs you had growing up that you
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: reflect on now and laugh about a little bit.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: That's it. That was the strangest thing.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: I could lead you in into what might be the
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: perceived next big step for you. But I'm curious if
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: I ask you about your running journey after those Olympic Trials,
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: what do you think about as like the next pivotal
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: moment for you?
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: That's a good one. I guess the Chicago Marathon that fall.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: You know, I took a huge chunk of time off
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: of obviously my debut to my second marathon with the
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: Olympic Trials. It was like ten minute pr or something
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: like that. But it still wasn't even in the ballpark
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: of like you have a future in this. It was like, oh,
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: you can do this for a few more years as
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: a fun you know, find out how good I can be,
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: and then you need to enter the workforce and then
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: you know it. Just it made me really want to
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: figure out the event because the last couple of miles
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: went so poorly and I realized if I could put
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: that together, I could actually be really great at this.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: And so heading into the Chicago Marathon that fall, I
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: was just more driven and motivated than ever to kind
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: of put everything together on the day. And it was
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: my second world major marathon, but the first time anyone
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: really expected me to do anything. And I finished top
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: five that day and actually got the time that really
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: matched with where my training had been for the trials,
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: and it was a time that would have lended me
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: on the team, you know, and put me in that
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: ballparker that conversation for any of the teams in the past.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: And so that was like, Okay, this is the right
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: path you're going down, and you can do this and
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: have a profession here.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: Which prompts to follow up questions the first when you
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: say things fell apart a little bit toward the end.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: What does that mean for you?
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: Especially in that two thousand and eight eight Olympic Trials,
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: it was really like experiencing the bonk of the marathon.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: And that was my second marathon at the time, and
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: I was like, you know, twenty six I thought I
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: had it all figured out. I'm like, I'm making an
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: Olympic team. I got this and just struggled with like
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: the fueling part of the race and hit the wall
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: and you can lose you know, thirty forty seconds a mile,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: and the last four miles feels like the first twenty
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: two or whatever it may be. And so that was
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: a struggle fest all the way, and I just knew
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: I had to figure out the pacing of it and
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: get that dialed in a little bit more, but also
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: the nutrition aspect of it. So there was things to
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: work on when I finished.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: Before I go into my second follow up question, I
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: feel like, now this begs the inquiry what there's so
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: much I want to know? DOZ talk to me about
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: like a typical fueling strategy for you? What are you
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: leaning into? What are you reaching for?
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: All that? Goodness? Yeah, I use bar product, which I've
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: been with them for quite a few years now, and
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: their electrolyte drink has been really good for me, and
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: so I'll do that for We get the personal bottles
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: on the course, so every five k you can have
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: your own mixture out there. And so I'll do the
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: electrolyte fluid for probably the first twenty five k, and
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: then I'll do caffeinated from twenty five k thirty K
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: and then I go back to the electrolyte mix. But
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: the caffeine's good. That's such an important part of the
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: race where you want to make sure you're alert in
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: your body and your mind are on the same page
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: about how much fuel your muscle has, so muscles have
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: so adding that in has been good. I mean, we
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: train our bodies, we train our minds, and we have
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: to train our gut as well. So it's practicing getting
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: those fluids in while you're running, and also while you're
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: running at marathon pace, so you can feel the sensation
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: of it slashing in your gut when it goes wrong
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: and adapt to it or you know, you train your
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: stomach to be able to handle that. So it's all
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: a lot of practice.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: I love what you said about I finally was in
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: a place where like people would expect things of me,
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: which can be really exciting and kind of surreal, especially
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: as a young athlete, but then also super overwhelming. So
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: talk to me a little bit about this idea of
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: managing other people's expectations and how you kind of coped
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: with that from early on.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess the expectations that were outside were me
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: and my coaches and my teammates maybe, and then everything
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: beyond that was kind of just noise. Like I didn't
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: really dial into any of it or let it kind
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: of get in my head at all. But the expectations
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: I had for myself and that my coaches had for
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: me were really high enough, and so that's kind of
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: where I just focused. And they were there because I
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: was proving that they should be there, and so if
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: they were high, it was a good thing.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: It is a good thing. And now like we're we're
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: getting up there. There's basically what happens here is there
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: are a slew of marathons, some more Chicago, some USA Championships,
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: the Boston Marathon in twenty eleven, which was big for
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: you coming in second. What does that feel like at
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: that time?
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a race where I was probably the
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: only one who was disappointed in the end. And I
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: feel like it's a mental strategy where you act as
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: if you are the thing you're trying to become. So
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: for me that was I am a Boston champion, and
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: every day for three months, you know, I went out
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: and practiced like a champion. I ate like a champion,
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: I slept like a champion. Like whatever it was, it
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: was like, is this is this what a Boston Marathon
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: champion would do, you know, And that's what all my
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: daily activities are driven towards. And so it all played
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: out really how I I expected it to, except for
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: like the last fifty meters, and so for you know,
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: three months and two hours and twenty two minutes was
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: all to plan, and I was a Boston Marathon champion
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: and I made all those decisions to put myself there,
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: and then it just fell short right at the end,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: and so I walked away pretty disappointed because in my
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: mind it was picturing that for so long and then
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: it was kind of not taken away, but that moment
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: changed where it's like, Okay, now you have to cope
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: with the fact that you're not the champion, which seems
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: bizarre from the outside. But to have those types of
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: races and performances, you just have to commit to it
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: and believe it every single day, because no one fakes
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: their way to that. So I was kind of on
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: the disappointed side with all of it.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: You talked a lot about those three months and the
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: preparation and in turn the opportunity cost, which I think
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: is something that a lot of runners own and accept
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: when they have these big, lofty talk to me about
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: why running and it might be different now than it
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: was back then, but why at this point was this
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: sport just so worthy of these sacrifices and that great
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: opportunity cost for you?
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I love it. It's just to me,
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: it's so much fun. And I see all these moments
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: as opportunities. And some people look at pressure or big
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: races and these kind of situations as stressful, and I
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: just see them as really fun opportunities where you can
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: go and do something you've never done before, and if
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: you put in the work and you have the right goals,
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: it makes a lot of sense. But I don't know,
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: I've always enjoyed that, and I think that the love
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: of the sport just kind of makes it all worth it.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: I don't think there's any kind of drawback for me.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: I've also felt like I was for a long time,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: I was really underrated. Like even when I say the
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: expectations of outsiders, they were always pretty low. It was
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: our internal expectations that were high because we knew it
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: was possible. So I never really had too much pressure
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: on the goals I was putting out there, like people
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: were just like, Oh, that's cute, she thinks she's going
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: to win the Boston Marathon. But actually these three people
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: are contenders. And so I was always surprising people for
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: a long time.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: Anyhow, how powerful is that though?
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: It's it's definitely an easier way to do it if
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: you're under the radar and you can go and surprise people.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: It's it's a fun spot to be in.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: So how do you then turn around this disappointment from
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: Boston and kind of use that fuel for your training
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: going forward?
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Think you look at you know, all of those
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: disappointments as opportunities to learn and get better. And so
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: for me it was obviously it was good and bad.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: It was like I was disappointed because I really thought
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: I was going to be able to win, but it
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: was a moment that just by the believing it was like, Okay,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: you're not insane to believe that you could do this.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: You can compete with the best in the world. You're capable,
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: and you belong in these races. And so that mentality
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: I just used moving forward. And obviously I was twenty eleven,
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: so twenty twelve games were coming up. I had not
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: been an Olympian before, and so that was certainly driving me.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: And you know, I wanted to get myself on a
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: team and be able to compete for the USA.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: I want to compare to feelings then, the feeling that
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: you have when you make the Olympic team in twenty
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: twelve versus the feeling that you have when you know
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: that you can't finish the Olympic race in London.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like the highest of highs butted up against
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: the lowest of lows. It was a super hard year.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: It was very tough to manage. Even when it goes
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: really well, like this is a new experience. You get
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: to call yourself an Olympian and there's you know a
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: little more opportunity on the other side with media and
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: sponsors and so on and so forth, and you should
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: be excited about it and caught up in it a
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: little bit, but also you still have to train and
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: do all that stuff. So it was just a lot
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: of managing things that I had never really done before.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: And then you know, with getting on that team, I
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: think our teams are so good that the expectation or
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: you know, my personal goalieve in was to go and
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: try to meddle in London, and again that was the
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: bar I had set for myself. So it was really
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: trying to take on that training and push myself to
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: a new level and all really great things, but there's
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: again there's a big risk on the other side. That's
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: a fine line between having a breakthrough and breaking down,
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: and I found myself on the wrong side of it.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: So that feeling and going into that race, which is
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: essentially the whole world's eyes are on it and it's
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: the biggest moment in my sporting career at that time,
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: so that was really hard to stomach. Think what made
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: it even worse was not having like a correct diagnosis.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: It was like, this is tendonitis, and like I could
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: run through tendonitis, I can do hard things, I can
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: manage discomfort, and then you know, coming back a couple
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: of weeks after the games, getting another look and being like, actually,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: this is something you shouldn't have been running on at all.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: So it was tough to feel like I was being
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: a baby about something, but also in the back of
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: my mind going I think that this is the wrong diagnosis.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: So it was really good to get on the other
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: side and have like a proper diagnosis and be like, Okay,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: this is a reasonable decision you made to drop out.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: I feel that's like when you get out of a
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: relationship and sometimes you almost wish as if someone did
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: something really bad so you could just hate them for sure.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: Right, You're like this, there's got to be a reason,
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: like what was wrong.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: You had in this time period of your life. Also
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: met Ryan, who would become your husband. How was integrating
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: like any so a personal life while you're also training
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: like bonkers?
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: He was just a huge help. I mean, he's such
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: a runner too, and so he's super supportive of it already,
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: but also he could match up with what I was
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: doing running wise and just chip in on workouts, and
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: so it was actually really fun to have him there,
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: someone to do all this work with.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: And at this time, what does like the climate of
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: your training look like, are you still training with the
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: Hansons or are you doing more stuff on your own
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: or what's that? What's happening there?
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: So yeah, then I was still very much with the
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: Hansons and we had a great group still, So it
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: was I mean, we always had a great group. It
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: was Dot McMahon and Melissa White were you know, some
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: of the people that ran with me at that two
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: thousand and eight trials and felt we all had a
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: legit shot and same thing in twenty twelve, so I
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: think it was a nice boost for all of us.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: That's you know, we got someone on the team and
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: it felt like a really collective effort. And you know,
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: again I had really great training partners to help me
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: get ready for the games that year.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: And it's so interesting because now, I mean, as we
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: get closer and closer to the present, a lot of
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: these household names that we're still seeing you run with
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: today when it comes to competing and racing with them,
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: you're starting to be out there with these ladies and
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: you're all kind of coming up together. I feel like
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: there must be and I mean so many people talked
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: about your relationship with Shelene and waiting for her in
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: Boston that year. But it's like there must be some
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: sort of a sisterhood that's starting to form with you
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: and all of these other ladies that are out there
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: pushing themselves just like you are.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a ton of respect. The event is incredibly hard,
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: and we know that those three months leading into it
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: are grueling and difficult. And if you can get yourself
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: to a start line, you've already done quite a bit.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: And think everyone respects people who just go out and
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: put that type of work in for a really long time.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: And obviously you want it to be your day, but
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: if someone else that you know is doing it in
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: the correct way has that breakthrough, then hats off to them.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: I think it's a win for all of us.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: All right, So I'm going to fast forward just a
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: little bit and bring us to the next Olympics, a
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: much different play out for you.
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was quite fun.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: It was quite fun.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I enjoyed that one significantly more, and it was
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: I think the biggest challenge with that was, you know,
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: you can't make that same mistake twice, Like you can't
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: get injured for this, You can't have to drop out
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: or have to like not start, and so managing that
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: but also really swinging for the fences and wanting to
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: earn that metal still and be in your best shape
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: and ready to run. It was a really tricky balance,
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: and I was pleased that I thought I did a
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: good job with managing it.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: All about the stress fracture for a moment, How did
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: you remedy that? Was it a lot of rest?
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a good amount of time off and it was
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: a pretty big fracture, is my understanding, So it was
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: like more time off than I expected. And then actually
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: at that time, I started going down to Phoenix to
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: get work done by the chiropractor John Ball, who is
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: pretty popular in the distance running endurance sport world, and
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: so that was really beneficial because I still go down
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: there now and get treatment quite a bit. But he
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: was actually an ASU grad and ran i think on
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: the one year on the team while I was there.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: But it's kind of we have a lot of mutual
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: friends and stuff, so it's always good to see him.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: And so something that I've read about but I don't
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: feel as though you talk about it a lot, is
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: what was going on really throughout twenty seventeen for you,
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: I would love to bring up the Gold Coast to
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: have marathon because in my eyes, that was probably a
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: really big hurdle moment for you as you decided what
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: to do maybe with the rest of your running career.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like the Olympics has it's one of
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: the big highs, and then afterwards, no matter how it goes,
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: there's just like this void where you're like four years
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: before I can get to do something quote unquote meaningful again.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: And I just tried to not acknowledge it, and I
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: was like, Okay, I'm gonna do Boston. That's super meaningful.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: Ran fine. There I was fourth, I think, which is fine,
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: and then it was like, okay, well now I just
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: need to shove something else in place because I don't
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: want to think about where this is going long term
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: or what really is driving me. Still. It was kind
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: of like putting the band aid on the head wound,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: like let's just not think about this. And I think
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: Gold Coast was where it kind of like get ahead,
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: and it was like you got to pause. You need
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: to rest and really recover and regroup and get a plan,
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: like have a bigger plan here.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: What happened there.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: I was just really flat, Like I think in training
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: you can get fit, but you can't force it in
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: by not taking the proper breaks and just keep throwing
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: new things on the calendar. I just was overtrained and
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: kind of in the well, and obviously it showed in performance.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: So when you showed up there, it just didn't feel
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: like you had it in the tank.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just felt I mean, there's a huge travel
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: component to going over there and trying to race well,
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: but conditions were ideal. It was really a great day
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: to run fast. I think if people need a fast
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: July marathon or half marathon, that's the place to go.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: Like it, it's really tough to be but yeah, I
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: just felt so flat from the start, Like I would
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: try to go with the leaders and I was like,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: I have nothing in my legs. I'm just out of gas.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: So we take a little break after the Gold Coast
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: and then we kick things into high gear because well
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: it's the beginning of twenty eighteen, and don't you know
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: if something big is coming.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I took a hard break and didn't run until
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: I felt like I wanted to, And then when I
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: was achieved for workouts. I started doing workouts and I
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: just let things come to me instead of forcing it,
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: And that just kind of changed, you know, how I
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: went into these training segments and workouts and the whole thing,
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: like it got me excited to run again, Like I
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: would look forward to racing the New York City Half
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: and getting in the next workout. So it was a
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: shift from the year before.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: For sure, Is it true you didn't run all of
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: August twenty seventeen.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: Probably I took a good hunk of time off. I
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: think I referred to my training log as Swiss cheese,
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: where it's just like big gaping holes everywhere.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: A lot of people struggle, not just with handling injury,
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: but then also with the idea of taking time off.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: Just tod I a girlfriend of mine who's had to
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: take some time off because of a nasty hamstring situation.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: She said in her quest to sub four, she was like,
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: I was so close. This is the year I was
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: going to SUB four, and now I'm sitting here just waiting,
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: And I said, you can't decide right now what's going
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: to happen five six months from now. All you can
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: do is the best you can with this situation as
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: it is, and you started to gear up again talk
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: to me about where your head was at.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: It was a good reminder that again, you can't force
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: things you have to. My college coach would always say
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: relax and let the run come out of you, you know,
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: and that was when we're trying to run fast. It's like,
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: you're not going to force really great performances. And so
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: if the body says back off, back off, and I
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: think it takes a lot of confidence to do that
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: as well, to realize that you're not going to lose
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: everything you've built over all the years just because you
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: took a little bit of a break. And I think
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: both Slaine and I had our big breakthroughs off of
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: these breaks. You know, it was that little bit of
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: time off that kind of allowed us to regroup and
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: freshen up and then go and attack. And so there's
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: a lot of value in those breaks too. And I
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: think that's a hard thing for people to grasp because
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: we do like the keep showing up, you know, like
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: that mantra is great because he gets us out the door.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: But sometimes showing up is allowing yourself to rest and
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: recover and regroup, and so you have to figure out
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: what it means and take confidence in the years and
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: years of work you've done before. Just because you can't
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: go out and hammer right now doesn't mean that all
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: goes away.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: And I think that's pretty relevant to you know what
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: a lot of us are experiencing right now in this
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: patch of uncertainty and a shift in the quote unquote normal.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: It's just this is things are different now, and how
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: can you be during this time? What can you do
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: during this time? I mean, right now, I'm sure that
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: showing up so to speak, as we started this conversation
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: talking about it looks a whole lot different than showing
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: up looked like for you back in January of this
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: year leading into Atlanta.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely. And it's always changing and figuring out, you know,
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: what can you do with the situation to make the
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: most of it. And the people who are going to
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: adapt and use this time wisely are the people that
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: going to come out the other side and have success.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: The people who are stressed out in antsy because they
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: can't do it exactly the way they had pictured, I
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: think they'll struggle and so we just have to be flexible.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: So it's a rainy day in two thousand and eighteen,
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: and the winds are gusting up to thirty five miles
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: an hour, the high is around thirty eight degrees, and
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: you think to yourself, we're gonna have a nice little
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: run today.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: Nobody thought that that's a myth. Everyone was like, this
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: is going to be torture. Why did I sign up
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: for this?
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: I wish I were in bed, myself included. I was
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: out there that day and it was god awful.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: Man.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: All Right, you get out there, you feel as though
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: going into this race, which I think is important to
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: just reiterate, after having like that rough rocky patch and
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: taking some time off, are you back in a place
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: where you really love running again, aside from you know
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: the conditions you're about to face.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was having fun with it, and I think
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: I looked at this race as like stepping stone, Like, Okay,
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: I think I'm in pretty solid shape. I didn't get
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: better from last year, Like, I don't think this is
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: going to be a lights out good day for me.
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: But I think about where I was in twenty seventeen
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: and I finished fourth, So who knows? Like, keep an open.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: Mind, right, So you show up to the starting line
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: with an open mind. I know you guys had a
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: little bit more of an official start than the rest
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: of us. I think like at one point they just
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: said just go whenever you're running. It was crazy back there,
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: but for you, you guys get going and in the first
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: few miles of that race, like where is your head at?
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: What actually keeps you going?
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny to look back at it, because I
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: felt horrible the first few miles, which to be expected.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: It was really bad conditions and you're just like, this
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: is a really long way to go. And I thought
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: the pace was surprisingly decent for what we were heading into,
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: like there's a lot of running left. Why are we
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: racing so hard right now? But also in hindsight, like
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: I didn't even bother to warm up because I was like,
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: there's no we're not going to go fast. It's going
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: to be like a slow jug for twenty four miles.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: And so it all felt really uncomfortable quite early on.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: And it was even you know, in that first six
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: miles where I tap Shalin and I was like, there's
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: a really good chance I'm dropping out today. I don't
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: feel like I have it, So let me know if
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: you need anything.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: I think it's really awesome that even on the days
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: that don't feel stellar, you're still out there and you're
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: showing up and you're like reiterating that because that's probably
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: and I'm sure you as well. Like a question that
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: I get asked so often is how do you stick
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: with it when it just feels awful?
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: I think it's can turn so quickly, and it's when
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: you're in a race, especially and you've trained for months
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: and just because the weather doesn't look how you expected,
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: you got to give yourself a shot and everyone's suffering.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: So it took me a while to realize that it was,
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: you know, pretty far into the race, around seventeen miles,
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: we're like, oh, everyone's hurting today. This isn't going well
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: for anyone. So maybe I'm hurting less than that.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: Maybe just maybe So you guys are out there, you said,
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: you're about like six or so miles into the race
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: and you're not feeling super optimistic. When do the tables
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: turn for you?
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: So around thirteen Shelene takes me up on the offer
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: and says she just kind of, you know, nudges means
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: like I need to go to the bathroom, Like do
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: you think that I should go. There's like porta potties
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: right there, and I'm like, yeah, that's like it's slow enough,
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: you can catch back up, or I'll go the front
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: and slow it down. Whatever. So she darts off and
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: does the quickest bathroom stuff I've ever seen. But in
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: the meantime, it's like the East Africans on the front
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: are like, oh, this main competitor has just gone off
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: the course, like let's make a break, Let's try and
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: drop her, and so you know, I kind of stayed
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: back and waited for her, and we worked together to
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: re gain contact to the pack, and I think like
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: that was a kind of pivotal moment mentally where it's like, Okay,
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: I'm actually pretty good moving at a little bit quicker pace.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: And maybe it was actually just warming up the legs
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: and the core temperature by going quicker, but that was
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: like the first spark of like, Okay, well this isn't great,
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: but we're going to get back in and maybe I
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: can help someone else out along the way.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: And so you're back in.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I yo yoed off the back for a bit,
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: but I just felt like there was so much it
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: was too much racing for where we were, and it
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: was all predicated on Shelaine having to go to the bathroom,
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: and none of it made sense because it was still like,
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: you know, thirteen miles of head wind to run into,
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: so it just it wasn't none of it was logical.
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: And even then it was like I kind of fell
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: off and then I regained contact, and then I Mamyito Daska,
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: the East African had gone off the front and put
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: like thirty seconds on the pack and Molly Huddle was
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: sort of leading that chase group into the wind. It's
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: just like that's the worst spot to be and so
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: in my mind, I'm still like maybe I'll drop out,
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: but let me do this thing for Molly where I
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: go to the front and help them, you know, close
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: this thirty second gap. And it's such a funny thing
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: when you're having the worst days if you give yourself
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: a big task. I think my old coach the Hanson's
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: had a story about, you know, a person getting wanting
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: to drop out of a ten k and then their
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: coach said, hey, you can drop out, you just need
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: to catch the leader first. Like okay, it's like three
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: hundred meters in front of me. I'm just going to
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: put my foot to the floor, catch the leader, and
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: then I can drop out of the race. And all
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: of a sudden you get there and you're like, oh,
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: I feel amazing, And usually those people end up having
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: amazing races. And this is really pretty similar to what
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: happened here, is that I'm going to go to the
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: front and help Molly close this gap and get out
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: to the front start doing the work. Look back and
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: I've dropped like pretty much everyone, and that's you know,
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: that real moment where it's like, oh, yeah, everyone really
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: is hurting. This isn't easy for anybody, and actually I
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: might be this longest of this group.
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: In that moment, do you realize what's possible for you?
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: I think it was surprising. I was not expecting to
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: turn back and see the whole group splintered because I
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: didn't feel like I did anything spectacular. So it was
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: definitely like, Okay, the conditions are really breaking this thing apart,
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: and I'm not going to have to do anything special
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: because the conditions are going to do it for me
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: and maybe I can get top three.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: Maybe perhaps. But then you're making your way toward boils
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: to the street and things are looking pretty Okay.
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was surprising, and I think I just have
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: so much experience on that course in racing, in championship
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: style races that you know, I knew where to push
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: and when I could really take off towards home and
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: where to test people, and so I had a lot
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: of that in twenty eleven, just kind of playing in
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: my mind and not making the same mistakes that I
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: did then. It was kind of of interesting to have
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: that day in those conditions put in my mind, I'm
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: kind of visualizing twenty eleven, perfect weather and tailwind, and
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: that's that was kind of what was driving me.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: Did you have, as you were like making that final turn,
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: kind of the PTSD of twenty eleven kicking into you
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: real hard, or did you have a pretty firm grasp
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: of the reality of what was happening right then and there.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: No, I was very much in twenty eleven, and I
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: had no idea what the gap was behind me. But
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: when you go under the underpass, it's like maybe a
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: thousand meters to go, and I had the jacket on,
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, I can't finish this race of the
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: jacket on, Like what if they dque me? Because like
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: my numbers, my bib's not showing or something, and like
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: I was gonna try to take it off into the
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: underpass when no one really saw, and my hands were
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: so cold, like I was fumbling with the zipper. I
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: couldn't get it. And I'm like, if I get passed
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: by somebody because I'm trying to take a jacket off
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: for a finishing photo, the biggest ding dong ever, like
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: you're an Indy ding So I stopped doing that, and
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: then even when I turned onto Boyleston, It's like, Okay,
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: I feel like I have enough in my legs that
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: if someone comes up on me, I can sprint and
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: I know when to sprint, you know, just based on
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: that twenty eleven experience. So I was playing that all
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: out in my mind until like, probably I don't know,
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: twenty meters from the finish.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: Talk to me about what that feels like.
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: It is pretty incredible. I haven't won a lot of
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: races in my career, and so having that moment of
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: breaking the tape was was pretty incredible, and particularly coming
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: off of twenty sixteen in twenty seventeen, where it's like
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: at my very best, I'm like sixth at the Olympics,
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: or maybe I have seventh, you know, and I don't
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: think I can get any better from that, so maybe
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: this is just as good as I'm gonna be. I'm
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: probably never gonna have that moment. And then, you know,
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: being really frustrated in seventeen, like what's the goal here?
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: If I'm never going to win anything or p are again,
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: like what am I trying to accomplish? So coming on
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: the tails of that was pretty special. And obviously having
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: Ryan there, who's done so much and dealt with so
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: much along the way, it was really cool.
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: When you are facing these tough moments in the run
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: and you are pushing forward, and even in the exciting moments,
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: do you have some sort of mantra or something that
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: you keep going back to to push you forward.
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: I think it's always changing, And obviously the twenty eighteen
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: keep showing up was super important, you know, was just
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: go day by day, mile by mile, minute by minute,
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: or whatever you need to break it down to to
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: make sure you're having little successes. So that one has
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: really kind of stuck with me, and I think that's
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: always been the attitude. It was just finally putting those
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: simple words to it. And then you know, I think,
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: don't force things. You know, it's kind of the relax
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: and let the run come out of you has always
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: been important too. It's like when things get difficult, you
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: can't just bang your head against the wall. You have
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: to relax, be logical, and then just work your way
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: through it, not try to just run through the wall.
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: You've had a long time to develop this level of
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: mental grit. What do you tell someone that feels like
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: they just don't have it in them?
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: I think it's a learned thing, just like everything else.
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: You have to practice, like we have. We talk about
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: training our gut and people go, well, that's super weird, Like, well,
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: you can train your mind too, and the more test
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: yourself and develop tools and read up on it, and
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: there's a whole sports psychology to science behind it and
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: it's real. Try to figure out how you can use
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: those tools and practice practice with it, because it's a
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: one percent you know. I think you get to a
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: certain level and everyone's really talented and really good, and
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: what's the thing that's going to set you apart? And
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: a lot of times it's from the neck up? Do you?
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: And I don't want to put you too much on
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: the spot, But have any top reads that kind of
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: were really pivotal or something that was really memorable for you.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, from a sports psychology perspective, thinking, Body, Dancing Mind
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: is just fantastic. And I go back to that all
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: the time and take tips and tricks and reminders and
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: a coach with Jared Ward on indur or Strong, and
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: I'm always bringing that book up for our athletes. I'm like, Okay,
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: we're going to talk about, you know, whatever mental tool
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: it is for the day. So there's so much to
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: learn in there.
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: On an everyday basis. Are you a mindfulness person, Are
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: you a journaling person? Either of that? Either of those things?
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: No?
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: No, I'm a get outside and run person, right all right,
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: So I'm going to fast forward us to the now.
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: Then when you break the tape in Boston, do you
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: think at that point and believe and knowing your gut,
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: that there's still more for you to do?
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: No. It was super surprising, and it was still like
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: in that kind of time frame where I was like, Okay,
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: this is a stepping stone, maybe I can get better
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: from here. We'll just see. So it was kind of
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: finding out and you know, even after that it was like, Okay,
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: finally got the big reward for all the hard work,
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: like the big one, But what else is going to
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: motivate me? And what else is out there that I
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: want to do? So it's still kind of up in
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: the air. I just happened to have the big moment
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: in case I wanted to walk away from it all.
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: I've got to ask, I mean, a lot of training
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: goes into these races. How do you walk the fine
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: line between training to that perfect physical peak and overtraining
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: as you you know, dabbled in with the stress fracture
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: and the Olympics and then you know, saw success with
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: when it came to Boston.
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: That's like really the challenge of the marathons, like finding
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: the fine line of the breakthrough and the breakdown and
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: being on the right side of it. I'm still trying
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: to figure that out, and I think I've been very
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: lucky to be on the right side most of the time.
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: So it's really listening to your body and adjusting the
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: training as you need to and so on and so forth.
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: But it's I don't think I've really figured it all out,
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: and sometimes I wonder if maybe I've left some really
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: great marathons out there because I wasn't really willing to
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: risk in training as much as I should be. You know,
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: I'm super consistent, but maybe there was that outlier out
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: there that I just couldn't get to because I wasn't
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: willing to give up the consistency. And so it's crazy balance,
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: and you know, it was partially why I ended up
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: going back to my coach, wallet Drenk, my college coach,
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: just to try something new, to see if there was
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: something that I was missing in training.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: So I'm going to bring us close to the now
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: and talk us through the marathon trials in Atlanta as
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: we know, that day was. It was a beautiful day.
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: I was down there for that too, watching you, and
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: we got to talk a few days leading into that.
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: It would be the biggest understatement in the world to
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: say every single person was cheering for you.
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: It was insane.
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: How does that feel?
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: It was insane?
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: How does that feel?
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah? It was really cool. I mean, I think everybody
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: else in the race probably hated me. They're like, why
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: are you the only one getting cheers? But yeah, it
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: was pretty pretty neat, and honestly, I think it's just
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: I've been around for a really long time. I was
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: also like, I'm really.
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: Old going into that day. Where was your head at.
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: It's a weird race for me. And you know, honestly,
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, I did not look four years ahead
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: and go, Okay, I'm really gearing up to make this
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty teen, this is the next thing I want
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: to do. It was like, I'll probably be retired before then.
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: So I never pictured myself really running this trials. But
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: you know, obviously, once I committed to it, it was
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: all in and I felt like I had a great
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: shot to make the team. The segment was tough the
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: last few weeks. I just had some hiccups. And so
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: it was the first time in probably eight maybe I
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: guess sick twelve years that I took the time to
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: picture what it would look like if I didn't make
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: the team. Like I felt like I needed to mentally
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: prepare myself for that because it was something I hadn't
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: visualized in you know, at least eight years, and so
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: I feel like when it got hard out there, that
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: was like kind of weighing on my mind, like Okay,
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: well I'm prepared for what it's going to be like
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: if I don't make the team. And then, in hindsight,
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: I should have never let that get in my head
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: because I was, you know, a threat, and maybe it
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: makes you take your foot off the gas for half mile,
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: but when you miss a team by eleven seconds, maybe
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: that's it.
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: It's interesting that you have this realization now, especially after
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: you shared the story of waking up for three months
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: and training like a Boston champion. Yeah, not to say
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: that it's stellar to think about a Plan B being
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: not making the Olympic team, but don't you think maybe
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: there's a little bit of responsibility and ownership about at
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: least thinking of that every once in a while.
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: I have mixed feelings on that. I think given the
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: training segment, absolutely you know it made sense. But again
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, plan B is like a
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: proper one in that one of like, okay, plan is
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: like I'm every day I'm picturing and winning the trials.
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: If I can't win the trial, it's like, what does
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: it look like to make the team? If you know,
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: I think you can go backwards from that, But for me,
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: it was like make the team. You know, I went
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: through those phases where visualizing winning and making the team
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: and then you know, it just had the hiccup and
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: it was like, Okay, I need to prepare for worst
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: case scenario. And I don't know if that's fourth or
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: you know, fifty seventh or what else it's going to be.
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: But it was just a little bit of a cop out,
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: I think for me.
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: Talk to me about a high from that day and
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: a low from that day, and the low is not
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: coming in for.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, everything about it was pretty amazing. Just
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: that pack of people for so long into that race,
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: you know, just speaks to the depth in women's distance
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: running with men's too. The men's side was pretty incredible.
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: The course. How many people are out there cheering, just
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: going nuts over you know, American distance running. That's that
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: was really neat. Watching Molly's sidle debut, just how she did,
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: you know, she's what twenty four. I think that's just
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: so incredible. For the future, I think she's just going
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: to get so much better. That was really cool. Obviously,
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: Alphine and Sally just really kind to people. Just the
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: team that we're gonna send is just really great people,
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: which was really neat. Not that there's bad people generally,
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: but I like them a lot. Anyhow, and then even
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: that being in that chase pack with it was me
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: and Kellen and Laura Sweet and just being like, you guys,
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: we got to work together. Let's close this gap, like
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: we can't give up. We have to chase down Sally.
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: We can do this, and kind of getting people to
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: rally together late in the race when it's really hard
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: to try and grab that spot. And so there's just
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, it was just a fun day all around.
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: And I mean the down from that day probably below
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: would be that night trying to get into a bar
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: and having to wait in a line. I was like,
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: this is it. This is what a fourth placed person
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: has to do. Now wait in line? Oh my god,
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: that's it. It was like this speakeasy. So you had
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: to like call I'm like, I'm not waiting five minutes.
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: I can't do that.
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: Let me into the bar. Don't you know who?
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: I how the mighty have fallen?
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: It goes without arguing right now that you and Selaine
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: are leading, what I would say is a boom of
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: American woman's marathoning. Is that kind of crazy to hear
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: me say?
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: It's no, It's really incredible. I think we're a few
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: of many and again it makes me feel kind of old,
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: Like I just feel like it's a thing where I've
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: just done this for so long. But I've said that
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: about Dina while she was still competing, and it's kind
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: of I should apologize now, like I didn't mean to
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: say that you were old. It's just really what you
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: did was so impressive and you're just guiding in the
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: next generation. And obviously Amy Hastings and Caria Goucher certainly
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: in that conversation, and so I think we've all had
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: our moments where you know, we've done something pretty special
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: and it's really nice to be a part of it.
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: I'm crowdsourcing a few questions as we wind down the
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: podcast right now, and one of the ones that kind
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: of came in over and over for you is what
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: would be your top two tips for newbie distance runners
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: now that you're quite the better in yourself.
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: Okay, Well, first is running is hard. I think we
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: talked about this a little bit at the podcast before
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: the race, like it's really tough and getting in shape
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: is hard, but being in shape is awesome. So give
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: yourself time to get in shape. Don't get frustrated or
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: impatient early because it's hard expect that, but you know,
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: stick with it. So that would be the first one.
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: I'll go in a totally different direction and say, get
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: good equipment so that you give yourself a chance to
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: keep showing up. And that's a good run specialty store
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: if you can and get the right footwear and give
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: yourself a chance to stay healthy and have the right
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: support underneath you and feel good when you're running, and
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: that'll make a big difference. I know right now we
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: can't get into run specialty And actually Brooks Running has
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: this amazing shoefinder on there that will kind of guide
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: you through all the things that they might do at
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: a run specialty shop and get you in the right
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: fit shoe. So if that's the best resource right now,
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: I totally recommend that for sure.
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: When it comes to the off season, which many of
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: us find ourselves in right now, what are your suggestions
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: on either maintaining fitness, not losing fitness or are you
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: just a whiskey coffee and a no running kind of gal.
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think if it's a planned to break, you know,
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: I put the running shoes somewhere where I don't even
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: see them, and whiskey coffee, no running kind of gal.
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: But you know, I'll go for a walk, I'll play
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: with my dogs. I pull out the bike that I
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: don't use that often, so you can still be active.
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: But it really just depends what you feel like you need.
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: You know, if you're a person who doesn't want to
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: get out of that rhythm, just keep it light and short,
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: and when you're ready to get back into it, you can,
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: you know, turn it right back on. I think again,
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: it goes back to having the confidence to take the break.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: I think I've been at this for a really long
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: time now, like the longevity of my career personally, I
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: believe it's from having the confidence to take those breaks.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: In twenty seventeen, going okay, you know what, like I
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: need to hit pause for a long time. I know
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: how to get in shape. That's tough, but it's doable.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: But I can't, you know, force this if I'm not
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: having any fun doing it. So, you know, enjoy your
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: break and feel it out. See what you need.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: What are you leaning into right now to kind of
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: just handle this state of ambient anxiety other than running.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: It's super strange because it's not that different from my
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: typical day which is pretty sad. Like I'm like, I
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: wouldn't really know that anything different's going on, but I'm
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: definitely kind of catching up on stuff that I hadn't,
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: you know, spent time on in the past. And it's
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: reading the really big books because I know I can
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: hunker down, putting time and energy into our coffee company
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: that Ryan usually does everything for him, like helping out
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: a little bit more there. So it's just staying busy
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: with stuff that's enjoyable.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: What goals are on your radar right now? I mean,
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: I know that a lot of people have their own
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: opinions about the Olympics being pushed back. Where are you focused?
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: Just trying to have some fun with this. I mean,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: obviously it's like not fun at all, but we can
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: still enjoy running. And for me, it's working on things
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: that in the past, like I just can't fit into
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: the schedule. Like I would love to do a ten
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: k on the track, but if you do a spring marathon,
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: then you have to regroup and then do a fall marathon.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: All of a sudden, it's tight to fit that in
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: and you know you run the risk of injury doing
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: that high intensity stuff. I just feel like right now,
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: I'm like, who cares, Like, let's just try and see
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: what happens in worst case scenario if I get an
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: injury or STI don't know races until the fall, so
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: we'll regroup and it'll be okay. I mean, obviously I'm
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: not trying to go that route, but that's like worst
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: case scenario. So I'm going to do a ten k
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: time trial is the plan right now, and just touch
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: on stuff that I haven't done in a really long
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: time and have some fun with it because I think
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: it's something I've gotten away from, but it's a new
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: way to test myself.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: A lot of people either go to your Instagram page
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: or your Twitter profile and they see a woman who
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: loves running and likes to have a good time. When
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: you look in the mirror, what is it that you see?
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: I don't know, just like a big goofball. I think
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: like the social media stuff is like pretty authentic, and
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: it's usually something I'm just like randomly thinking in my
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: head and I'll just I don't have a filter, so
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: I'll put this on Twitter and like I'm just laughing
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: at myself. So I don't know, whatever you see there's
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: probably pretty accurate. I don't think take too much too serious.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: Best piece of advice that you say that you've been
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: offered in your career.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: It's cliche, but enjoy the process. You know. It's not
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: always about the results or the pr or something that
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: we can measure. It's just about going out and having fun.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: Like I think my high school coach, you know, when
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: I first started, it was like, if you're not having
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: fun anymore, just stop. You don't have to do this.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: As soon as it's not enjoyable, you can stop. And
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: I've always kept that in the back of my mind
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: as far as it goes as being a profession. It's like,
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: if this is just work and I don't enjoy it,
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: there are many other things I can go do. So
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: enjoy going out and running and investing time in yourself
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: and putting one foot in front of the other.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: What do you think life looks like for you after running?
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: Oh gosh, I don't know. I try not to visualize
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: that just because I don't want to plan b It's
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: I think it's one of those again. It's like kind
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: of a cop out where like if I have too
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: good of an exit strategy, like okay, no, I'm going
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: to work here and this is what I'm like going
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: to be building, or this is the next project. When
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: you're at mile twenty four and your legs are cramping up,
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: it's like, why am I doing this? I have that
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: other thing all lined up and all it's beautiful. So
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: I haven't really spent too much time looking at that,
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: but I've put things in position to have like potential opportunities,
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: so I don't think I'll be scrambling for too long, hopefully.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: I meant to ask you before when you mentioned that
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: you were living every single day like a Boston Marathon champion.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: What was changing from the normal every day in terms
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: of you said you were sleeping and eating like a
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: Boston Marathon champion. I just love a little insight into that.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's just like analyzing decisions you make,
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: like is it going out, you know, till eleven and
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: having beers with your buddies or going home and getting
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: the extra hours of sleep or whatever it is. It's
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: making the tough decisions in workouts, like oh man, I
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: should I pull the plug on this because it's getting hard?
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: Or is it put leaning into the pain and pushing
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: the last rep because that's what a champion would do.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: And it's all those little things and they all add
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: up to make a huge difference. And I kind of
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: joke about it. You know, what do all these things
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: look like? And honestly, you just end up with a
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: picture of MEB, So just go act like MEB every.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: Day, every single day.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: All right?
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: The final question, You have an opportunity right now to
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: offer the des who God maybe makes the call that
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: she needs to drop out of her first Olympics, or
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: is dealing with coming in second at the Boston Marathon.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: She's dealing with all these experiences that she's worked so
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: hard for. You have an opportunity to offer her one
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: of advice during that hurdle moment. What do you tell her?
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: I would remind her that it's just running or putting
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: one foot in front of the other and going forward,
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: and it's great and when it goes really well, it's fantastic.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: But if it goes poorly, it's just running. And there's
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: great relationships around you and people who really care about
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: you whether you succeed or you fail, and those are
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: the things that are important.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: What a great way to leave us off. Thanks so much,
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: DOZ for your time.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you got it.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: Please take a moment and leave a quick review by
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: clicking the link with the description to the episode. We
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: all face multiple hurdles in life. I want to hear
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: about yours. Reach out to me at Emily at Hurdle
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: dot us, connect with the podcast on Instagram and Twitter
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: at Hurdle podcast does. Where can they find you? How
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: can they keep up with you? If they can try?
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: I am on Twitter and Instagram at Dez Underscore Linden
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: and I do have a website, does Linden dot com.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: I've got to ask you really quick, guilty pleasure that
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: you're going to the kitchen for during this time or
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: we're staying inside.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: Probably beer's been a lot of extra beer. No. I
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: actually drafted a tweet today and it was like, it's
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: not that I dislike cooking. I just really am okay
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: with eating ingredients. So whatever kingredients.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: Thanks so much. Does I am at Emily a body
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: at Hurdle Podcast. Another hurdle conquered. Catch you guys next time.