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69. Healing Through Movement & Family Constellations with Claudia Samano · Constellations and all that...

• 0:00
  Tracy: Kia ora everyone, and welcome to Constellations and All That.
• 0:03
  Tracy: Today I have the pleasure of chatting with Claudia Samal.
• 0:08
  Tracy: From, actually, I'm not even gonna say where you're from.
• 0:11
  Tracy: I'm gonna invite you, please, Claudia, to um, to share a little bit about yourself, where you're from.
• 0:17
  Claudia: Thanks for inviting.
• 0:18
  Claudia: Yeah.
• 0:20
  Claudia: My name is Claudia Samo.
• 0:21
  Claudia: Thanks for that beautiful pronunciation of my last name.
• 0:25
  Claudia: I'm living in Tucson, Arizona, the United States right now, but I am originally raised and born in Mexico City.
• 0:33
  Claudia: So yeah, I've been in the United States for almost 25 years now.
• 0:37
  Claudia: So yeah, this is my second country and I'm a Mexican American, um, working in the field of holistic therapy since around 12 years ago.
• 0:49
  Claudia: Yes, that's me.
• 0:51
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 0:52
  Tracy: And you do quite a bit around, well, in, in Mexico we did some movement.
• 0:57
  Tracy: So you do dance and movement and, um, that's incorporated.
• 1:01
  Tracy: Is that correct?
• 1:02
  Tracy: Your work and your constellation work?
• 1:05
  Claudia: Yes.
• 1:05
  Claudia: Incorporating right now what it is, movement therapy or dance movement therapy.
• 1:10
  Claudia: That's my background.
• 1:11
  Claudia: Um, since I'm young, since I was 16, I started with, uh, dance movement therapy, now called somatic therapy, which is very like aligned with what we did long time ago when I was six.
• 1:24
  Claudia: 17, 18, 19. And I've been working with the body and, and techniques that are, um, body-centered, of course.
• 1:34
  Claudia: Um, I started with constellations less than a decade ago, like around nine years ago, and I noticed the.
• 1:43
  Claudia: The importance of the body in the constellations.
• 1:45
  Claudia: And I would like, voila, this is something I can actually merge and work in a very, um, unified way with both techniques, constellation and movement therapy.
• 1:56
  Claudia: Yeah, I was a dancer for all my life until I moved to Tucson three years ago.
• 2:01
  Claudia: Um, I stopped dancing just because I'm doing more constellations now, but I have, I have my own, um, dance studio and recreation.
• 2:10
  Claudia: Center for 11 years back in Washington.
• 2:12
  Claudia: So I've been, uh, with yeah, interacting with the body and, um, the, the ways to, not just healing, but expressing ourselves in and creating the safe spaces to move around for kids, adults, young adults, teenagers, et cetera, special needs.
• 2:33
  Claudia: Popularity.
• 2:34
  Claudia: Um, so I've been very involved with the body.
• 2:36
  Claudia: Yes.
• 2:37
  Claudia: Forever.
• 2:37
  Claudia: So that's why I picked that topic for the ISCA convention.
• 2:42
  Claudia: I,
• 2:43
  Tracy: it's so important, isn't it?
• 2:44
  Tracy: Like, so important because we, I thought, I'm gonna say the majority of us at some point, if, when, if not still are.
• 2:53
  Tracy: And have been disconnected to our bodies.
• 2:54
  Claudia: It is sad to think that it's just not, it's not our fault.
• 2:58
  Claudia: It's just the way we've been seeing the body as, um, forever.
• 3:02
  Claudia: We see the body as a separate, um, entity from our health.
• 3:09
  Claudia: Yeah.
• 3:09
  Claudia: We see the body as a consequence, and bodies, uh, yeah, it's a consequence, but it's also part of the, I will say, the main.
• 3:18
  Claudia: Part of our health.
• 3:20
  Claudia: So is the center, the body, kinda like, get all these experiences that maybe the mind try to escape from or try to avoid or try to hide, but the body can't.
• 3:33
  Claudia: So, um, it's just sad 'cause we don't see it that way.
• 3:37
  Claudia: We see us.
• 3:37
  Claudia: Yeah.
• 3:38
  Claudia: Okay.
• 3:38
  Claudia: The body, we can shut down the body and we can just not take, we cannot listen to the body and, and just continue our life like nothing is happening.
• 3:47
  Claudia: The body is screaming at us.
• 3:48
  Claudia: So, yeah, it's important to just notice that.
• 3:51
  Claudia: And in the constellations we see you, right?
• 3:54
  Claudia: We see you and we, we value you.
• 3:56
  Claudia: And, and the body is a vehicle like, like I think it is now.
• 4:01
  Tracy: Absolutely.
• 4:02
  Tracy: Absolutely.
• 4:03
  Tracy: Can you, um, share with me how did you first, how were you introduced to Constellations?
• 4:08
  Claudia: Back in 2018, I think?
• 4:11
  Claudia: No, 2017.
• 4:12
  Claudia: I was around, I was like in my 38, 39 years old.
• 4:16
  Claudia: And, um, you know.
• 4:18
  Claudia: Those, those signs were really like, okay, enough is enough.
• 4:22
  Claudia: I guess I need to take care of myself a little more.
• 4:24
  Claudia: Um, you are not that much out there.
• 4:27
  Claudia: You can't, like in, you start interacting with yourself in another way when you are almost 40 and, and your kids are grown up, um, growing and.
• 4:36
  Claudia: You are kinda like more in contact with you, and I started to looking more into this holistic therapist for myself.
• 4:42
  Claudia: Um, so I was searching constellations because, oh, by the way, I think I heard about the for Hellinger and, and I was like, we Hellinger doing what?
• 4:52
  Claudia: And that was my first.
• 4:54
  Claudia: What kind of therapy is he talking about?
• 4:56
  Claudia: What kind of things he does?
• 4:57
  Claudia: So I searched and I found, um, a couple of people here in the United States, but I wasn't sure.
• 5:03
  Claudia: It was too much, like, not what I'm seeing right now or what I have seen now, but.
• 5:10
  Claudia: I was like, okay, I'm gonna sign up for a, a workshop to see how, how it works.
• 5:14
  Claudia: And at the same time, um, trying to get in the workshop, uh, a person that lives in Mexico, which is my youngest cousin, she called me after 10 years of not talking with each other.
• 5:27
  Claudia: And oh, we found each other on Facebook.
• 5:29
  Claudia: Yes.
• 5:30
  Claudia: And um, and we started talking and she say, oh, well it's so good to see you and so good to know about you.
• 5:36
  Claudia: Um, she's like around, um, eight years younger than me.
• 5:40
  Claudia: And we started talking about what we were doing and our kids and et cetera, and suddenly she's like, well, I'm in this new workshop about constellations.
• 5:48
  Claudia: And I was like, wait, I just signed up for something like that and it's new for me.
• 5:53
  Claudia: So we started talking about.
• 5:54
  Claudia: Our, our paths and from since then we've been together in that.
• 5:59
  Claudia: So I sign up for her workshop in Mexico virtually, and she signed up for the one here.
• 6:04
  Claudia: And we shared since then, actually this morning we were talking and after me doing, uh, workshops and private constellations with, um, just in my own.
• 6:14
  Claudia: And with my own healing process, I decided, I think I want to facilitate too.
• 6:19
  Claudia: And I got, um, I got in a facilitation program and I graduated a couple of years ago, so I'm pretty new.
• 6:27
  Claudia: However, I feel like I've been there forever because it looks,
• 6:31
  Tracy: yeah,
• 6:31
  Claudia: it feels like home.
• 6:33
  Claudia: So every time I'm constellating, it's like, no, I think I've been here before and this feels so comfortable.
• 6:39
  Claudia: It's not.
• 6:40
  Claudia: 100% new.
• 6:41
  Claudia: I feel like my body already knew some of these things.
• 6:44
  Claudia: So that's how I started.
• 6:46
  Claudia: Yeah.
• 6:47
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 6:48
  Tracy: And did your cousin come to the conference and meet it?
• 6:51
  Claudia: No, no, she couldn't.
• 6:53
  Claudia: Um, she was not there.
• 6:55
  Claudia: However, she wanted, she had another retired, um, like a retreat the same weekend, and she invited me and I was like, oh, I can't, I'll be in Mérida.
• 7:03
  Claudia: So, no, she lives in Querétaro, actually very close to, um, to the people that we met at in Ixca.
• 7:10
  Claudia: So it, it's this in the same community in Mexico, so no, she, she was not there.
• 7:16
  Claudia: Yeah.
• 7:17
  Tracy: If you were meeting someone for the first time and they are.
• 7:21
  Tracy: Asking you what you do and, and you start talking, you share that you do a family constellation facilitator.
• 7:27
  Tracy: How do you describe it to them?
• 7:30
  Tracy: How do you share what you do?
• 7:31
  Claudia: That's a tough question because I guess is a question for all the facilitators, how to actually don't, not to scare people away, but also to make them feel that it's something.
• 7:44
  Claudia: Really like home.
• 7:46
  Claudia: Like you don't have to believe in anything, but you just have to believe in yourself and your body and what is going on there.
• 7:51
  Claudia: So has been a, a topic for me in the, in the last two years, but I always describe Constellation therapy as um, as a therapy where you, ancestors and your lineage and will.
• 8:04
  Claudia: Assist you in a, in a way where you can even observe, understand, and heal, um, some part of, of, of your life.
• 8:15
  Claudia: It could be physical and mentally or emotionally, but I, I always try to say, um, and try to make.
• 8:21
  Claudia: Very clear about observing first, because as it was well with the body, like, um, if you go to a class and you just dance in front of the mirror and you're just observing the, the body through the mirror, you are not really observing yourself.
• 8:35
  Claudia: You are observing your image in the mirror, so you're not feeling or observing the changes really clear in your body.
• 8:41
  Claudia: And I feel like in constellations, when we come to a constellation thinking that you will heal something just because, um, that's a misunderstanding.
• 8:50
  Claudia: So I always say you will.
• 8:51
  Claudia: What it needs to be observed, what it needs to be noted, and then you will understand and then things will come together.
• 8:58
  Claudia: Now, um, on reference of.
• 9:01
  Claudia: Body, um, embodiment and, uh, the somatics and all this, um, it's, it's very clear.
• 9:08
  Claudia: Like, I always say we use the body to, um, to read the field.
• 9:12
  Claudia: Like, the body's gonna be the vehicle, your body's gonna be that part where you are.
• 9:17
  Claudia: Um.
• 9:18
  Claudia: So sensitive or, or you are talking to me about the sensations you are having in the field.
• 9:24
  Claudia: Um, so that's why I like to do my, uh, somatic intervention or my movement therapy before the constellation, so people is already sensitive to, or acknowledge thing, uh, the sensations in the body, or, um, observing the sensations in the body before getting into the constellation itself.
• 9:43
  Claudia: So I explained that to them too.
• 9:45
  Tracy: Brilliant.
• 9:46
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 9:46
  Claudia: Yeah.
• 9:48
  Tracy: Because sometimes people say, I don't feel anything, uh-huh.
• 9:52
  Tracy: I'm not, there's nothing I'm, you know, sometimes that's the constellation, right?
• 9:56
  Tracy: But other times it can be that, that detachment from themselves.
• 10:01
  Tracy: Which again may be part of the constellation as well.
• 10:04
  Claudia: It's part of the constellation.
• 10:07
  Claudia: It, it is.
• 10:07
  Claudia: Um, I think it's important to know that, um, it's not, it's not easy.
• 10:13
  Claudia: I mean, to feel the body means you being aware of your body for.
• 10:16
  Claudia: For a long time, and as we say before, uh, we are unaware of so many things happening in the body because we tend to ignore, um, ignore the signs or ignore the pain.
• 10:28
  Claudia: Or if we have pain, we kind of like, okay, we go through the easiest thing.
• 10:31
  Claudia: What is the easiest thing?
• 10:32
  Claudia: I am just gonna try to reduce the pain with this, but we don't go in depth of what my body's telling me.
• 10:39
  Claudia: So if, if we don't allow the body, um, to talk.
• 10:44
  Claudia: Um, in the Constellation, it's gonna be hard to listen, right, because we're not talking.
• 10:48
  Claudia: So it's like a self conversation between the body and me, myself.
• 10:52
  Claudia: So, um, it's, it's not easy, as I'm saying.
• 10:56
  Claudia: It's not easy for, for someone to be completely aware.
• 10:59
  Claudia: Um, when we are stressed out, when we are overwhelmed, it's easy to just.
• 11:06
  Claudia: Separate body from, from mind because it's, it's just the way you're not feeling that much, right?
• 11:11
  Claudia: So, um, this, this type of, this thing is so common for us.
• 11:15
  Claudia: Like, this association of the body and the mind is just the most common thing to do.
• 11:19
  Claudia: So when you come to the constellation, it's pretty, um, it's pretty usual to see that people are not connecting or are not feeling anything, especially if it's the first constellation, right?
• 11:29
  Claudia: Um, so for me has been like the point, okay, let's just.
• 11:40
  Claudia: Uh huh, I'll do a lot of introspection.
• 11:43
  Claudia: I do a little breathing technique at the beginning.
• 11:45
  Claudia: I do a scanning body scan at the beginning.
• 11:49
  Claudia: Um, and I just pointed at, uh, I just try to explain that we are gonna go through this first.
• 11:55
  Claudia: So once we are aware and once we're conscious about, what I'm trying to do is like an intention, right?
• 12:02
  Claudia: It's easier.
• 12:04
  Claudia: Then just putting ourself there just from the very beginning.
• 12:08
  Claudia: So yeah, meditation, breathing techniques, body scans, et cetera.
• 12:13
  Claudia: Mm-hmm.
• 12:15
  Tracy: Great.
• 12:15
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 12:16
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 12:17
  Tracy: And, and what are, have you ever come across it where there's been someone who's come along and they're just like.
• 12:22
  Tracy: I can't visualize, don't feel my body.
• 12:26
  Claudia: Yeah.
• 12:27
  Claudia: Oh yeah.
• 12:28
  Claudia: Many times.
• 12:29
  Claudia: Many times.
• 12:30
  Claudia: And I just give space and I just give time.
• 12:33
  Claudia: Um, as I say, even myself when I'm so overwhelmed or so stressed out, it is hard for me to feel my body.
• 12:40
  Claudia: It's hard for me to sit down in a meditation and just be, be still and feel my body because my head is distracting me.
• 12:47
  Claudia: Right.
• 12:47
  Claudia: And no, pay attention out there.
• 12:49
  Claudia: No.
• 12:50
  Claudia: So, and I've been trained for.
• 12:52
  Claudia: For years, for decades.
• 12:53
  Claudia: So yeah, I, I found that a lot.
• 12:56
  Claudia: Um, so it's pretty normal.
• 12:58
  Claudia: Yeah, moving itself works too.
• 13:01
  Claudia: So moving around, I ask them to walk around the room too, and to feel the contact with the floor, the contact with others, the body shifting the weight.
• 13:14
  Claudia: Right, left.
• 13:15
  Claudia: Um, you are actually stepping with which, which foot first.
• 13:19
  Claudia: So yeah, moving around will help also.
• 13:22
  Claudia: I think it's easier than staying still sometimes.
• 13:26
  Tracy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 13:27
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 13:27
  Tracy: There was a lovely exercise that, and I used to do, um, that I was taught when I was training, and that was to walk around with your eyes, like, looking at the ground.
• 13:38
  Tracy: Not looking at anyone else, but you were to walk around, mingle in between each other, you know, so maybe there's a group of 20 people and you're just sort of looking at the ground and, and just be aware of yourself.
• 13:49
  Tracy: Just notice as you're walking around, you see other people's feet, and so you're trying not to bump into them and then, and then maybe come up your body a little bit and, and notice when someone is walking past you that maybe there's a.
• 14:03
  Tracy: Maybe you're noticing the, the sensation of them walking past you without, you know.
• 14:09
  Tracy: Mm-hmm.
• 14:09
  Tracy: And then slowly we would work up the body to the, when you got to the point where now you're making eye contact or, or you are glancing at people as they go past, and then you start making eye contact.
• 14:20
  Tracy: And that was a really beautiful way to get people feeling themselves, feeling into the body and feeling the field as well.
• 14:27
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 14:29
  Claudia: Sometimes even feeling how my speed, how fast I'm walking.
• 14:32
  Claudia: So, um, how fast I'm walking, how strong, how my body is actually walking.
• 14:39
  Claudia: Like, um, so straight or so flowy or, um, am I walking like an elephant?
• 14:45
  Claudia: Am I walking like a bird?
• 14:46
  Claudia: Um, just, just being aware of the quality of your movement.
• 14:51
  Claudia: Takes you to, oh, okay.
• 14:53
  Claudia: Um, this is how I'm doing it.
• 14:54
  Claudia: So you recognize these patterns.
• 14:57
  Claudia: Um, yeah.
• 14:58
  Claudia: It's, it's a beautiful work.
• 15:00
  Claudia: It's not easy, but it is, um, it is beautiful once you get to that point where you can recognize all these patterns or, and sensations and it's easier for you to get to the constellation, I guess.
• 15:10
  Tracy: Do you do just one-on-one?
• 15:12
  Tracy: Uh, sorry, just group work, or do you do one-on-ones as well?
• 15:15
  Claudia: I actually started, uh, with group sessions when I finished my facilitation training, and then I was like, I think I'm ready to do one-on-one.
• 15:24
  Claudia: And right now I'm working one-on-one every week.
• 15:27
  Claudia: I have a couple, two, three, um, people per week.
• 15:30
  Claudia: So it, it has been so good.
• 15:32
  Claudia: I, I, I am so, I'm so impressed on of how.
• 15:36
  Claudia: The field has opened for me.
• 15:38
  Claudia: Um, and it's, it's great to see people joining and feeling the, this just one-on-one, because at the beginning it's, it's scary, right?
• 15:46
  Claudia: You're like, one-on-one is actually a huge responsibility.
• 15:49
  Claudia: But I guess it's, um, no, it's a way you connect with someone really heart to heart.
• 15:55
  Claudia: And, um, in the constellation, in the group therapy too, but I guess one-on-one, it's a, a really beautiful con, um, connection with,
• 16:02
  Tracy: yeah,
• 16:02
  Claudia: with the other soul.
• 16:04
  Claudia: So yeah, I do one-on-one too.
• 16:06
  Tracy: Fantastic.
• 16:07
  Tracy: And obviously, the movement is a big part of that.
• 16:10
  Claudia: The movement.
• 16:11
  Claudia: It, it's part of it.
• 16:12
  Claudia: Yeah.
• 16:12
  Claudia: And we take a, we take time to, um, to be aware of that, as I say before.
• 16:18
  Claudia: And then I, I've been also implementing the, um, the hope and upon of healing.
• 16:25
  Claudia: I don't know.
• 16:25
  Claudia: You have heard about it, but, um, Coop has lived with me since probably 15 years ago, and it has been, um, a big thing in my life.
• 16:34
  Claudia: So, um, in one constellation, probably the, one of the first constellations I made by myself, it came out very natural saying, I love you, uh, forgive me, I'm sorry.
• 16:46
  Claudia: And, and it came so naturally that I was like, I think this is.
• 16:50
  Claudia: I think that we can use this.
• 16:52
  Claudia: Then like two weeks later I went to, uh, to the book fair and I found a book about constellations and Hokusai in the same book.
• 17:00
  Claudia: And I'm like, oh, I'm not the first one thinking this.
• 17:02
  Claudia: So I was just, so, um, so that gallery
• 17:07
  Tracy: book,
• 17:07
  Claudia: uh, Hawaii type, yeah.
• 17:10
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 17:11
  Claudia: And they gave it, they gave it to me, um, to me for free.
• 17:14
  Claudia: Because they were closing the shop.
• 17:16
  Claudia: Uh-huh, they were closing the shop.
• 17:17
  Claudia: It was already late.
• 17:18
  Claudia: They closed at three.
• 17:19
  I came like at 2:35, 2: 40, and they were like, you know what?
• 17:23
  I came like at 2:35, 2: We're closing.
• 17:23
  I came like at 2:35, 2: So just take the books you want and, and they're free.
• 17:26
  I came like at 2:35, 2: And I'm like, oh, okay.
• 17:27
  I came like at 2:35, 2: So I went into the store and there you go.
• 17:30
  I came like at 2:35, 2: That's the book, right?
• 17:30
  I came like at 2:35, 2: I'm like, okay.
• 17:32
  I came like at 2:35, 2: So I took it and I, um, and I realized that it was.
• 17:36
  I came like at 2:35, 2: A work, um, that was, uh, behind before me.
• 17:39
  I came like at 2:35, 2: Of course, I was other person or, or many people just working with the hop on upon a healing and, um, and I've been using it and it has been federal.
• 17:47
  Tracy: So have you developed your own style of it from that?
• 17:51
  Claudia: I'm still developing, but I'm sorry.
• 17:53
  Claudia: No, go ahead.
• 17:55
  Claudia: I'm still developing.
• 17:56
  Claudia: Um, I, I guess it goes with the flow.
• 17:59
  Claudia: So, um, at the moment I feel like it's important to create this connection between Ho'oponopono and con and, uh, constellations.
• 18:06
  Claudia: It comes magically.
• 18:08
  Claudia: Um, it is not, it's not even, um, planned.
• 18:12
  Claudia: I just know that I'm gonna use it, um, because I, I use it probably every, every session.
• 18:18
  Claudia: Um,
• 18:18
  Tracy: so, so for someone who doesn't know what Ho'oponopono is, can you explain it?
• 18:24
  Claudia: Yeah, the Ho'oponopono is, um, Hawaiian Healing Prayer.
• 18:29
  Claudia: Um, and, and it's actually, uh, a holistic therapy now.
• 18:34
  Claudia: Um, I got certified, um, Ho'oponopono a couple of years ago.
• 18:38
  Claudia: Um, is Dr. Len was the one that actually, uh, put it on like.
• 18:45
  Claudia: Brought, brought a life because he was used before him, but it was just in little tribes in Hawaii.
• 18:51
  Claudia: And then he was, um, he was a psychologist, not a psychiatrist, I'm sorry.
• 18:56
  Claudia: And he was assigned in, um, psych jail, how do you call it, when there's a jail and a psychiatrist in the same place.
• 19:03
  Claudia: So it's mental ill.
• 19:05
  Claudia: Uh, people in jail.
• 19:07
  Claudia: Mm-hmm.
• 19:07
  Claudia: Um, because he was assigned to this jail because no one else could actually take care of these people.
• 19:13
  Claudia: It was just, um, unbearable.
• 19:15
  Claudia: And many people were just resigning and quitting the job, and he said, I'll take care.
• 19:19
  Claudia: It
• 19:19
  Tracy: was very high needs, wasn't it?
• 19:20
  Tracy: Very demanding.
• 19:22
  Tracy: Um, psychiatric and mental health and, and a jail sort of thing.
• 19:27
  Claudia: It was really like no one, no one wanted to take the risk or the job and he say, I will take it.
• 19:33
  Claudia: He knew already about the Hopepuñano being a psychiatrist and they allow him to do whatever he, he could do.
• 19:40
  Claudia: So he started working Hopepuñano, which he's just a prayer and it's.
• 19:45
  Claudia: Um, well, it's not just a prayer.
• 19:46
  Claudia: It has so much behind, but it's, um, connecting with your own healing.
• 19:52
  Claudia: So when you heal, your in, your, in your surroundings heal.
• 19:57
  Claudia: So when you are focused in what you can heal from inside, you can actually, uh, help others healing around you.
• 20:05
  Claudia: So every problem that you see, um, in front of you, or anything that is happening in your, in your field, uh, has to be with you.
• 20:14
  Claudia: So you actually, uh, repeat to yourself these four, um, these four phrases.
• 20:19
  Claudia: I'm sorry.
• 20:20
  Claudia: I love you.
• 20:20
  Claudia: Um, please forgive me and thank you.
• 20:23
  Claudia: And once you did that, he did that for every single, um, patient in the clinic and without seeing them, just with their paperwork every,
• 20:32
  Tracy: mm-hmm.
• 20:33
  Claudia: Records, thank you.
• 20:34
  Claudia: Just with the records.
• 20:35
  Claudia: And he said he was there for early years just healing himself with each record.
• 20:42
  Claudia: And in weeks, the entire environment of this, um, of this place changed, shift to be very, uh, from being very aggressive.
• 20:51
  Claudia: Safe and very hostile environment.
• 20:53
  Claudia: It was an environment of at least more peace.
• 20:56
  Claudia: And from there he started working with the staff there too.
• 20:59
  Claudia: So the entire place shifted, um, energies, and he was able to prove that he was working to the energy, with the energy of everybody else.
• 21:07
  Claudia: And then the patients started getting better and better and better.
• 21:12
  Claudia: So it's a healing that comes from, from inside.
• 21:15
  Claudia: Just, just for kind of like a more, a more hour.
• 21:18
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 21:19
  Tracy: And it's beautiful.
• 21:20
  Tracy: So, so in a constellation, would you, how would you do that?
• 21:24
  Tracy: Would you put in those four phrases, or is how do.
• 21:28
  Claudia: Yeah, I will use it with, uh, healing phrases, with, um, um, well, we have the, which are the healing phrases?
• 21:38
  Claudia: Yeah.
• 21:38
  Claudia: In span, in English.
• 21:39
  Claudia: Yeah.
• 21:39
  Claudia: Uhhuh and I'll Yeah.
• 21:41
  Claudia: In sentences.
• 21:42
  Claudia: Yeah.
• 21:43
  Claudia: For example, I had, I'm, I'm gonna talk specifically about this one.
• 21:47
  Claudia: I had a group constellation and there was this lady on her fifties, um, trying to get closer to her dad.
• 21:57
  Claudia: And her dad was so, he didn't want to because he, he was so ashamed and shy because he did something that he was not supposed to, supposed to, under his values, right?
• 22:10
  Claudia: Or her values.
• 22:11
  Claudia: So he didn't want to, he was just getting a power side on the side, on side from the circle.
• 22:16
  Claudia: So when I finally, um, or when the, when the energy finally brought them a little closer, um, I started using these phrases from her.
• 22:27
  Claudia: Can you repeat these phrases to you?
• 22:29
  Claudia: And at the moment she started saying,"I love you. Uh, forgive me," Dad started coming very close to her.
• 22:35
  Claudia: Very close to her until they were facing each other.
• 22:38
  Claudia: For the first time.
• 22:39
  Claudia: So she started crying.
• 22:41
  Claudia: Dad started crying, and I kept repeating the phrases just like that.
• 22:46
  Claudia: And after a while, this was a really long constellation, but after a while, Dad actually came close to her and held, held her.
• 22:54
  Claudia: As a matter of fact, this was very healing.
• 22:57
  Claudia: A couple of weeks later, Dad was really sick in real life, very, very sick.
• 23:01
  Claudia: He had a stroke for years.
• 23:04
  Claudia: And, um, as a matter of life of, of a matter of, of, uh, fact that actually passed away a couple of weeks later.
• 23:11
  Claudia: And she, he, she was telling him that, I love you.
• 23:14
  Claudia: I, and he said, I know, I know.
• 23:17
  Claudia: And I'm so sorry.
• 23:18
  Claudia: So something shifted just in the way she was talking to him and the constellation, just by recognizing this on her too,
• 23:26
  Tracy: she was saying that.
• 23:28
  Tracy: Um, I love you.
• 23:29
  Tracy: Please forgive me.
• 23:30
  Tracy: I'm sorry.
• 23:31
  Claudia: Um, I love you.
• 23:32
  Claudia: Please forgive me.
• 23:33
  Claudia: Thank you.
• 23:34
  Claudia: And, um, I'm sorry.
• 23:36
  Claudia: Oh, so four,
• 23:37
  Tracy: please, please forgive me.
• 23:40
  Tracy: How do I say therefore?
• 23:41
  Tracy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 23:42
  Tracy: And because sometimes I love you, put them in different.
• 23:45
  Tracy: Different.
• 23:45
  Tracy: Right.
• 23:45
  Tracy: Uh-huh.
• 23:46
  Claudia: Uh-huh,
• 23:47
  Tracy: sorry.
• 23:47
  Tracy: Please forgive me.
• 23:48
  Tracy: I love you.
• 23:49
  Tracy: Thank you.
• 23:49
  Tracy: I think that is how I was taught it.
• 23:51
  Tracy: Mm-hmm.
• 23:52
  Tracy: So she's saying that to herself.
• 23:55
  Claudia: Mm-hmm.
• 23:55
  Tracy: And from that, it resonates out in the shifting of the healing to, mm-hmm, to her father.
• 24:01
  Tracy: Just for clarity, for anyone that's listening.
• 24:03
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 24:03
  Tracy: That she's not saying to her father, I forgive you.
• 24:05
  Tracy: She's saying this to herself.
• 24:07
  Tracy: No, it's to
• 24:07
  Claudia: ourselves.
• 24:08
  Claudia: Yeah.
• 24:08
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 24:09
  Tracy: I had a beautiful experience in, um.
• 24:11
  Tracy: I was at a, at a, an exhibition, and it was around, um, survivors of sexual abuse, and that's one part of being part of my journey.
• 24:23
  Tracy: And there were photographs and.
• 24:26
  Tracy: Of the people, you know, like, and it was just all sorts of different poses and different things and little bits about their story and stuff like that.
• 24:34
  Tracy: And there was one, I came across one and there was a, there was a woman and she was just, she was floating in the water and she was naked.
• 24:40
  Tracy: And I immediately went into, oh, no, no, no, it's not okay.
• 24:45
  Tracy: You know, this is, this is years ago.
• 24:47
  Tracy: No, no, no, that's not okay.
• 24:48
  Tracy: You're not safe.
• 24:50
  Tracy: And then I stopped and I started to say.
• 24:54
  Tracy: To myself till I felt like I moved that in me, 'cause she, she was free, but there was something in me that wasn't feeling free around it.
• 25:05
  Tracy: And there was, you know, and my judgment around that isn't safe for her.
• 25:09
  Tracy: But it wasn't, that was something in me.
• 25:10
  Tracy: So I used that phrase in that, and it was so beautiful and so healing in that moment.
• 25:17
  Claudia: Yeah.
• 25:17
  Claudia: And that's exactly what Dr. Lean explained all the time during the training.
• 25:22
  Claudia: Um, it's saying, if you have a problem, what can you, you are the one that's seeing this as a problem, right?
• 25:32
  Claudia: So facing it as, okay, what I'm saying, this is disturbing.
• 25:39
  Claudia: Let's just work on how I see it, right?
• 25:44
  Claudia: And he talk about.
• 25:45
  Claudia: All levels, countries, government, family, um, because
• 25:50
  Tracy: we're talking vibration frequency alignment, aren't we?
• 25:55
  Claudia: Exactly.
• 25:55
  Tracy: When if you're talking on another level there.
• 25:57
  Tracy: Yeah, absolutely.
• 25:58
  Claudia: Exactly, exactly.
• 26:00
  Claudia: Because
• 26:00
  Tracy: if you sense, if you're putting in that, oh, this is rot, you know.
• 26:05
  Tracy: The judgment and the, the angst and the bitterness to that, it's sure coming back as well.
• 26:12
  Tracy: But if you can, mm-hmm, find that and you, that love and that frequency of, of love and, and just trying to find the right word, we'll just say with love, of love, that frequency of love, then, then things can move around.
• 26:26
  Tracy: In your view?
• 26:26
  Claudia: Yeah, like, like cleaning.
• 26:28
  Claudia: He said you're cleaning and he always say that word like, um, when you feel like something is there, clean it with your words.
• 26:38
  Claudia: So you are cleaning the space, you're cleaning the, the air, you're cleaning the energy with those, with this words.
• 26:44
  Claudia: And there is other, um.
• 26:46
  Claudia: Um, rituals with that too.
• 26:48
  Claudia: There is, um, a lot of, um, a lot of praying with meaningful words like ber, like blue, like light blue, like stuff like that.
• 27:01
  Claudia: And they use it because it's already coded.
• 27:05
  Claudia: Something that will help you cleaning the energy.
• 27:08
  Claudia: So it's beautiful, and I thought like the constellation was cool, actually embrace these things.
• 27:14
  Claudia: Um, the constellation is just beautiful, but it keeps growing.
• 27:18
  Claudia: In Esca, I just realized how huge is actually the working constellations.
• 27:24
  Claudia: It's not just working in certain ways.
• 27:26
  Claudia: I was so impressed of seeing all of you and all, all the workshops with all different topics, with all different techniques, um, just embracing, um, and the Constellation by Beringer, embracing them all.
• 27:42
  Claudia: So that was beautiful for me, was really.
• 27:45
  Claudia: Okay.
• 27:45
  Claudia: Yeah, I, I'm doing what I suppose I, at the beginning I was not even, I was trying to do it and I was like, should I, should I do this?
• 27:52
  Claudia: Should I, uh, do what my heart is saying?
• 27:55
  Claudia: Should I implement hope?
• 27:57
  Claudia: Should I implement, uh, Somatic Intervention Movement Therapy?
• 28:01
  Claudia: And no, I'm sure now it's, it's part of it.
• 28:05
  Tracy: Yeah, I watched a video the other day where, um, Bert Hellinger was using NLP,
• 28:10
  Claudia: uhhuh,
• 28:11
  Tracy: and he was stating that this is an NLP process, but it, you know, it, there's that, there's this space for it.
• 28:17
  Tracy: And, and that's what I always appreciated about him sharing that: take the bones of what I give you of the structure of the work and add to it what you know, the other tools that you have.
• 28:29
  Tracy: So there is a classic constellations from his original work, but over the time there is what has been melded with it.
• 28:38
  Tracy: I definitely would not say my work is classical, far from it, but I love all way, I love all the different styles and the way that we can work with the, with constellation
• 28:49
  Claudia: approaches.
• 28:49
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 28:50
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 28:50
  Tracy: And the different approaches.
• 28:52
  Claudia: It's great.
• 28:53
  Claudia: Uh, it is great because if you have lived the experience of working with other holistic uh, practices, you have lived the results, you have been there, and I guess at the end it's all about order and love.
• 29:06
  Claudia: At the end doesn't matter.
• 29:08
  Claudia: What holistic therapy it is, or what approach is love at the end.
• 29:14
  Claudia: Loving, uh, and recognizing yourself in this world, right?
• 29:19
  Claudia: Yeah.
• 29:19
  Claudia: And spiritually and physically and mentally and emotionally.
• 29:23
  Claudia: So different ways.
• 29:25
  Claudia: Yes.
• 29:26
  Claudia: But at the end, we're trying to create this awareness and this consciousness of who we are and how can we.
• 29:33
  Claudia: Um, rooted ourselves with the help of our ancestors or this or that.
• 29:38
  Claudia: So I guess this, at the end, is the same.
• 29:41
  Claudia: I will say we are all going towards consciousness and love, in my experience.
• 29:48
  Tracy: Beautiful, beautiful.
• 29:50
  Tracy: How have you seen, um, or have you seen the shift within your family system?
• 29:56
  Tracy: Maybe from something that you've done or just with the awareness of Constellation?
• 30:02
  Claudia: You mean like with all this new formats coming in, or...
• 30:06
  Tracy: No, like have you, maybe there's, have you noticed there's more ease in your family?
• 30:13
  Tracy: Uh, some tension that used to be running through the system that has dropped away or,
• 30:19
  Claudia: okay.
• 30:20
  Claudia: Yeah.
• 30:20
  Tracy: More communication or do you think?
• 30:22
  Claudia: Well, definitely, I guess.
• 30:25
  Claudia: In the world we're living right now, and I'm in the United States, so I guess we have created, as I said at the beginning, uh, we have created this tension that sometimes we don't even know where it's coming from.
• 30:38
  Claudia: It's just our body just being resilient from, we don't know from where, but it's, it's, it's just, we're just more resilient.
• 30:46
  Claudia: But with the resiliency sometimes comes the strength, and with the strength sometimes comes the numbness.
• 30:52
  Claudia: I don't want to feel numb.
• 30:53
  Claudia: But sometimes it's required, right, to continue my day, just because I can't get attached to what I'm...
• 31:02
  Claudia: has been hard, like, in the back of our heads, to all the time, what is happening around, right?
• 31:07
  Claudia: So I have seen so much of this numbness.
• 31:12
  Claudia: Embodies and this, and people trying to go back to who they are.
• 31:19
  Claudia: And, um, well I, and I'm not, not gonna say just in the United States, I guess everywhere, right?
• 31:25
  Claudia: We are just kind of like falling apart from who we are and just trying to survive and, and yeah, we can fall in the numbness.
• 31:34
  Claudia: And not feeling who we are.
• 31:35
  Claudia: So I think that's a huge shift.
• 31:38
  Claudia: Um, going back to what I have seen with Bert Hellinger, I didn't have the pleasure to meet him, uh, live, but tons of videos and tons of during my training, right?
• 31:50
  Claudia: And I still watching a lot of what his work, but um, I guess right now it is just shifting to who.
• 31:57
  Claudia: I am not even my family or my problems.
• 32:00
  Claudia: I want to feel better myself.
• 32:02
  Claudia: I have seen that every single day.
• 32:05
  Claudia: What do you want to console myself?
• 32:07
  Claudia: Give me a topic myself.
• 32:09
  Claudia: I just want to feel fine.
• 32:10
  Claudia: I just want to feel okay.
• 32:12
  Claudia: I don't want to feel like I want to cry today over and over and over.
• 32:16
  Claudia: So this is over stress and overwhelming, um, life where we are living.
• 32:21
  Claudia: I guess it's just.
• 32:23
  Claudia: Bringing people to, okay, let's start from me, where, who I am and where I'm starting from, and then I can help others so I can, um, actually try to find a, a cure or a healing in another, in another person or for another thing.
• 32:37
  Claudia: Right.
• 32:37
  Tracy: Hmm.
• 32:38
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 32:39
  Tracy: That's great.
• 32:41
  Claudia: Yeah.
• 32:41
  Tracy: That's really good.
• 32:42
  Tracy: Do you find that there are themes that come to you, like,
• 32:49
  Claudia: yeah, the specific themes, like a specific.
• 32:52
  Claudia: Work people want to do.
• 32:54
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 32:54
  Tracy: So maybe, yeah.
• 32:56
  Tracy: Anything.
• 32:56
  Claudia: Yeah.
• 32:57
  Claudia: Well, as I said, again, it's just, um, the awareness of their own situation.
• 33:03
  Claudia: Most of it, uh, mostly, I don't know if it's because I am almost 50, but mostly people my age, like, um, uh, coming to me saying, how can I, how can I feel better?
• 33:15
  Claudia: How can I feel myself again?
• 33:16
  Claudia: How can I, um, just not being the mom, but I wanna be myself again?
• 33:22
  Claudia: So encountering with themselves.
• 33:24
  Claudia: They encounter with themselves that that has been a topic.
• 33:28
  Claudia: Um, and then of course, um, the family and else, but, um, community too, like, how can I belong?
• 33:35
  Claudia: I, I wanna feel belonged.
• 33:37
  Claudia: I wanna feel like I belong to the community.
• 33:39
  Claudia: I wanna feel like it's, um, part of something.
• 33:42
  Claudia: So belonging and self-awareness, I guess, um, are the topics and I guess, um.
• 33:49
  Claudia: It makes sense.
• 33:51
  Claudia: Um, we, most of us come from families that are not perfect, right?
• 33:56
  Claudia: And, uh, they're not, um, the perfect family because we have a concept of perfection that it's not even real.
• 34:03
  Claudia: But, um, sometimes, um, we just try to.
• 34:07
  Claudia: To reach that perfection our entire life until we realize it doesn't exist.
• 34:13
  Claudia: So what I'm doing right now, where, where should I turn around right now if I know that I'm never gonna get that perfection or never gonna, uh, reach this perfect family forever?
• 34:25
  Claudia: And I'm healing my parents right now, but, um, I really wanna be perfect in my own life.
• 34:30
  Claudia: So it's kind of like, uh, we realize that it's not.
• 34:34
  Claudia: We're not going anywhere if we keep thinking the way we, we thought before as a child, right?
• 34:39
  Claudia: Like in the Constellation, we'll be like, well, you are still in the child, um, thinking as a child.
• 34:45
  Claudia: You are not thinking as an adult.
• 34:46
  Claudia: So I think, um, that's an important thing to, to work on, like.
• 34:52
  Claudia: Sometimes it's just, okay, let's think in the adulthood right now and look at yourself as an, as an adult that can have all that you are wishing you had when you were a child, right?
• 35:04
  Claudia: Or.
• 35:05
  Claudia: Yeah, those kind of of situations are important sometimes for me right now, because I see a lot of, I wish everything, it's different.
• 35:13
  Claudia: I wish I had this and that 45 years ago that I didn't have 45 years ago.
• 35:19
  Claudia: Um, so like, well, that was 45 years ago.
• 35:23
  Claudia: So just realize that it's, it's not gonna happen, but we can't recognize.
• 35:29
  Claudia: We can recognize, um, what it's, um, ours and what can we take from our parents?
• 35:35
  Claudia: What can we take from our ancestors and then move on, right?
• 35:39
  Claudia: Um, with honoring their lives and honoring what they call gave us.
• 35:43
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 35:43
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 35:44
  Tracy: When you were talking about earlier about the perfect parent, it's like that's really coming from our, our inner child, isn't it?
• 35:51
  Tracy: Or the perfect family.
• 35:52
  Tracy: Like, I mean, as children, we don't realize the, maybe the, the extent of our, of the.
• 35:59
  Tracy: Um, dysfunction or the, the disconnection or, or whatever, right?
• 36:05
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 36:05
  Tracy: Or that, um, and, and as you say, there is no such thing as perfect anyway.
• 36:10
  Tracy: But in our childlike eyes, we often see our families as perfect until we, one day we wake up and realize, oh, this is not, I'm just taking the glasses off.
• 36:23
  Tracy: Oh.
• 36:23
  Tracy: Uh, yeah, I see
• 36:26
  Claudia: this.
• 36:26
  Claudia: Is it?
• 36:27
  Claudia: Uhhuh?
• 36:28
  Claudia: Yeah, this is it.
• 36:29
  Claudia: So it's just funny because you just look around, you, you, you think, oh, well, um, my family was not the only dysfunctional family, and we have the tools to notice now that, um, we can move on from that with our family support, even though family is not there anymore, or even though family never gave you the support.
• 36:50
  Claudia: But with the constellations.
• 36:53
  Claudia: It's a magic thing, right?
• 36:54
  Claudia: It is a magical thing that you still can get this energy, this love, this strength from your parents, from your ancestors, even if they were not there for you.
• 37:03
  Claudia: So when you, when you realize this, you start, you stop expecting perfection where it was never going to be.
• 37:12
  Claudia: So it's, it's just magical, I guess, is,
• 37:15
  Tracy: hmm.
• 37:16
  Claudia: Yeah, it's, it's the shift from being naive and, and, and not, not want, not wanting to know that you
• 37:25
  Tracy: can't handle your things now, because you can go from that naivety.
• 37:27
  Tracy: Sometimes I've seen this go from the naivety to this realization, then to the anger of all the frustration of what happened or what didn't happen.
• 37:38
  Tracy: But then you can come into the space through constellations of acknowledging it.
• 37:44
  Tracy: And still being able to be part of the system without having to carry it or, and you know, and like you say, taking from the ancestors, still being able to receive the goodness and the support and the connection.
• 37:58
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 37:59
  Claudia: Yeah.
• 38:00
  Claudia: And you sometimes suddenly you realize that, that your success is your history or your story of life.
• 38:07
  Claudia: Changing the narrative is gonna take you to the successful life you want to have, um, just by understanding the narrative, but change your, your narrative here.
• 38:19
  Claudia: Like, um, okay, I was in a dysfunctional family and I'm moving on from that.
• 38:24
  Claudia: Is this giving me an excuse not to move on, or it's giving me the power to move on?
• 38:30
  Claudia: Um, and this is beautiful on, in my eyes.
• 38:32
  Claudia: It is like, okay, well, you have to choose, and Constellation is gonna give you the tools.
• 38:38
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 38:38
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 38:39
  Claudia: Are you gonna use this as, as, as an excuse or as a power?
• 38:44
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 38:44
  Claudia: To move on.
• 38:45
  Claudia: Mm-hmm.
• 38:46
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 38:46
  Tracy: Have you got any examples of that that you could share?
• 38:50
  Claudia: Okay.
• 38:51
  Claudia: An example.
• 38:52
  Claudia: Um, I just had a constellation last week with someone, uh, beautiful.
• 38:57
  Claudia: Also 40 something year old lady.
• 39:00
  Claudia: Um, and trying to.
• 39:04
  Claudia: I, I don't wanna be very specific, but trying to help her son and then, um, with her son is, uh, special needs, right?
• 39:15
  Claudia: So he was trying, she was trying to help him, and when she realized she could actually.
• 39:23
  Claudia: She, what her parents, she, she didn't have dad present in her life and she was blaming on him for all what is happening right now to her.
• 39:32
  Claudia: Like, she feels a lot of resentment and she's just like suffering because her parent, her dad was not in her life and he didn't want to be in her life.
• 39:42
  Claudia: So at the moment she realized.
• 39:45
  Claudia: She, she could take her parents still.
• 39:48
  Claudia: I mean, her dad was there in the constellation, and she could actually take from him when she was waiting for all these 40-something years in order to do something better for her son.
• 40:00
  Claudia: She was just amazed.
• 40:01
  Claudia: She was just, she, we were not even finished the, uh, with the finishing the constellation, and she was like, I think this is enough.
• 40:06
  Claudia: I think everything is gonna change because now I see what happened here.
• 40:10
  Claudia: I never saw this.
• 40:12
  Claudia: I never saw Mom and Dad behind me.
• 40:15
  Claudia: I never saw my, uh, my ancestors, my ancestors, uh, helping me out or, or supporting my part, and I never saw all my, um, my, my family.
• 40:27
  Claudia: Related like this, right?
• 40:29
  Claudia: So it was just, we didn't even finish and she would say, no, I think I'm feeling better now because I, I know where this goes.
• 40:35
  Claudia: So I guess those little aha moments are the moments where, um, where you realize you have the power.
• 40:43
  Claudia: You don't have the excuse, now you have the power, right?
• 40:46
  Claudia: Yeah.
• 40:46
  Claudia: And I think brilliant in my own, in my own experience, that happened too.
• 40:52
  Claudia: Um, I guess I, uh, for my entire life I was always, uh, very sad about my dysfunctional family and, and always, even though I've been a therapist forever and in the holistic therapy and everything, I always thought, well, yeah, but if blah, blah, blah will be in my life, everything will be different.
• 41:12
  Claudia: Well, with the constellations, I actually noticed that.
• 41:16
  Claudia: Okay, but that's narrative.
• 41:17
  Claudia: I wanna see.
• 41:19
  Claudia: I wanna see now this is a powerful thing and I can take what I thought I didn't have from them, from my mother, from my dad, from my brothers, et cetera.
• 41:28
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 41:29
  Claudia: So yeah, it's, it's just brilliant.
• 41:33
  Claudia: It's an aha moment that I recommend
• 41:36
  Tracy: to everyone.
• 41:38
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 41:39
  Tracy: Different lens.
• 41:39
  Tracy: Looking at it from a different, different way.
• 41:41
  Tracy: So it's life changing.
• 41:42
  Tracy: It really is.
• 41:43
  Claudia: Yeah.
• 41:45
  Tracy: If someone wanted to have a constellation with you, how would they get in touch so that they can hear this?
• 41:50
  Tracy: On, on Audible?
• 41:51
  Claudia: I do have a Facebook and an Instagram page, and they're both called Samadhi, S-A-M-A-D-H-I, Samadhi.
• 42:00
  Claudia: Um, uh, Claudia.
• 42:02
  Claudia: Um, Claudia or Samati, Integrative Wellbeing, uh, practices in Facebook.
• 42:11
  Claudia: Thank you.
• 42:11
  Claudia: Those are my two ways.
• 42:12
  Claudia: My, um, my website is still, um, in reconstruction because I started a whole new website starting the year, and then I haven't finished it.
• 42:22
  Claudia: So, um, but my website is, uh, www.claudiasemino.com.
• 42:28
  Claudia: Um, but it's not ready yet.
• 42:29
  Claudia: So you can go and check what I have on the workshops that I offer, but it's not finished yet.
• 42:33
  Tracy: That's okay.
• 42:34
  Tracy: That's, that's brilliant.
• 42:35
  Tracy: I can find you on Facebook and, and that, which is really cool.
• 42:40
  Tracy: And we'll pop the links in the threads as well, so,
• 42:43
  Claudia: yeah,
• 42:43
  Tracy: yeah, of course.
• 42:44
  Tracy: So interesting.
• 42:45
  Tracy: Thank you so much for coming and chatting with me, uh, sharing your.
• 42:50
  Tracy: Passion and your wisdom with us.
• 42:51
  Tracy: It's beautiful.
• 42:53
  Claudia: Thank you.
• 42:54
  Claudia: No, thank you for inviting me, Tracy.
• 42:56
  Claudia: This was a pleasure, and it was a pleasure meeting you on Iska and sharing with you and dancing with you, because I think you were dancing with me too, um, moving around.
• 43:07
  Claudia: Um, I appreciate your, your podcast.
• 43:10
  Claudia: Thank you so much for joining this.
• 43:11
  Tracy: You are welcome.
• 43:13
  Tracy: Thank you.