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The Parts of Ourselves We Hide at Work · The Person behind the Position

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the person behind the podcast. Podcast that looks
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: beyond what people do to discover who they are.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: I'm your host, Michael Chisholm.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Good day, everyone. Today, I am talking with Julie, someone
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: who has spent more than 20 years building a successful
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: corporate career and eventually leading to talent acquisition. But what
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: caught my attention wasn't simply what Julie accomplished. It was
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: what happened when The position disappeared. And she had to
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: begin asking who she was without it. Julie, welcome to
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: the person behind the podcast.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: Thank you for having me, Michael. Happy to be here.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Thank you. So before we talk about what happened when
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: the position disappeared, who was Julie while you were still
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: in it?
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: Hmm. Well, um, it's a good question. I mean, I,
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: I was someone who I love to work. I mean,
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: I had been working since I was 14 and I mean,
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: my mom took me to get working papers and I
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: think me and my siblings, you know, we have this
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: incredible work ethic and all of us have. And so,
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, I just always believed that working hard and
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: you continue to learn and grow and add to your toolbox. And,
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: you know, I moved to the city and finished my
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: last year of college in New York City, which I
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: couldn't wait to get to. And then I worked in
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: you know, I graduated and, and then I worked for
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: all of these, you know, I always wanted to be in, in, um,
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: in marketing and worked for these amazing brands, um, Chanel,
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: Ralph Lauren, Donna Karan, and, and in marketing, uh, marketing, branding, licensing, advertising, and, um,
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: and always this amazing progression. It was, you know, adding
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: like more to my toolbox, learning more, climbing up, you know,
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: bigger titles, more money. So I always felt like hard
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: work beget, you know, it's like it just afforded you
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: more opportunity. And that was always the formula for me. And,
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: you know, that taught me storytelling. And so, you know,
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: and then I pivoted into, you know, it was a
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: colleague telling me, hey, have you ever thought about talent acquisition?
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: And the answer was no. I had never thought about
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: talent acquisition. And I had never thought about executive search.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: And it was a huge risk and a huge leap.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: And this was after this, you know, amazing 15, almost
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: 15 year career in marketing. And so I decided to
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: take this risk. And I was, you know, newly married.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: And my husband said, well, if you, you know, if you, uh,
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: It was for an executive search firm. And he said, well,
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: if you don't like what you're doing, then you can
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: place yourself. And I said, well, I don't know if
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: that's how it works. And truth be told, Michael, when
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: I got to this executive search firm, I thought, you know,
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: and they had said, well, we'll teach you how to
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: do it. And they really didn't teach me how to
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: do it. And I thought I'd made a huge mistake.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: And if it were not for someone who came into
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: the business and he really took me under his wing
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: and he taught me everything about executive search. He taught
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: me how to interview people, assess people, hire people, and
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: really how to work with people who were doing the
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: hiring for these people inside the company who were doing
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: the hiring. He taught me how to really understand work
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: with these leaders inside of the company, that you're really
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: making a difference, that these companies have goals to make
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: their goals and objectives in the company. They're hiring talent
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: and that that is a huge goal and that you're
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: really making a difference. And if it were not for him,
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: and this is like my mentor today, I mean, it's
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: been 20 some odd years and he is a close
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: personal friend of mine. So I highly recommend a mentor.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: So I mean, this is all how like, you know,
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: you're asking me and it's a sort of a long
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: way to answer it, but this is who I am.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm someone who takes risks, who had this
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: amazing marketing career, now joined with talent acquisition. And I
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: have this great, you know, sort of marriage of both
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: of these worlds and both of these industries that has
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: really led me to today. I mean, now I have,
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: You know, the marketing world of storytelling, the hiring world
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: of what are those stories, like those stories that you
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: now tell in interviews. I know what makes somebody hireable, employable,
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: memorable in an interview. And like I said, if it
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: wasn't for that one person, I probably wouldn't have stayed
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: with talent acquisition. I did that job for a couple
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: of years and learned talent, learned how to hire talent.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: talent into an organization. But then I left that and
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: went on to be, you know, head of talent acquisition.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: And again, really notable brand, Saks Fifth Avenue, Tapestry. And,
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  Speaker 2: you know, all the while, I, like the person behind
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: these positions, you know, I'm a wife, I'm a mom,
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: I'm a sister, I'm a daughter, you know, I became
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: a mom, you know, and I'm trying to fly through
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: the turnstile at the end of the day to go
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: home to twin babies. I mean, I'm trying to do,
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: you know, go home, make, you know, relieve a person
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: who's caring for my kids. I'm, you know, you're trying
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: to do, you're trying to make dinner. I'm trying to,
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm trying to juggle and do a thousand
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: things while I'm also taking work home and, you know,
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: having a meeting with a leader while my kids are
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: in the tub. I mean, I'm trying to you know,
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: trying to get promotion, you know, get promoted and lead
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: a team and be available to my team. I mean,
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to do a lot of things. So, so that's,
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: that was me. That was me. Okay.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: So how much of your identity was connected to your
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: career before you lost the position?
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: I would say pretty, pretty inextricably linked. You know, I
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: feel like when, I feel like when you're, um, when
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: I would, I mean, it's very, you know, the companies
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: that I worked for, they were all fashion brands. I mean,
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: I kind of drank the Kool-Aid, you know, I've, I
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: drank the Kool-Aid. I loved the companies I worked for.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: I mean, loved them. I loved the company, the brand,
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: the leaders, the, you know, the cachet that came with
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: working at Saks Fifth Avenue. You know, I mean, it
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: was the corporate office, but you get the discount and the,
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: you know, the clothing and the, I mean, all of it.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: I could get, you know, you just got really, I mean, that's,
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: But I loved the work. It's not so much just,
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: you know, of course, you know, it's fun for me
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: if you're a fashion person and, you know, you get
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: the discount. Sure, that's fun. But it's the work. I
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: like working. For me, being a working mom, you know,
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: that was important to me. It was important to me
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: to work as a mom. It's important. to me that,
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: you know, to be a role model for my kids,
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: for my girls. And, you know, and it was important
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: to me that it was important to my, like, it
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: was important to my husband that it was important to me.
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: I think I'm saying that right. He knew that it
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: was important to me. And so we made it made
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: it work. I went to work early. He was able
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: to go in a little bit later. So he was
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: able eventually to take the girls to school, which me
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: going in early made it so I could come home
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: a little bit. I went in early so I could
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: come home a little bit early. So you know, having
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: that flexibility and making sure that whatever job I had,
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: I made sure that I had flexibility. And it wasn't always,
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: that was not always easy. And that was not always
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: understood by employers. And that is something, you know, my
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: girls are now 14. And, I tell you, even 10
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: years ago, saying to a recruiter who was helping me
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: get a job, I said, can you just tell them
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: that I need to leave at five? And this was
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: a single mom. And I say that because she knew
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: that she had hardships herself. She's an amazing person, an
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: amazing recruiter. And she said, can you just not tell
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: them that? Just don't tell them that. Let's just get
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: the job first. You've met a slew of people. They
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: all think you're wonderful. You know, we're close to getting
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: the job. Don't tell them that you want to leave
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: at five. And I'm like, but you've checked half my references.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: Just what you said. They want me. Like, I want them.
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  Speaker 2: You know, it's mutual. And she said, just don't tell
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: them that you want to leave at five. Just get
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: in there. Just get the job first. Get in there.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: Do great work. And I'm like, but you already know
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: I do great work. Right. Why should we be hiding
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: the fact? Why are we hiding the fact that I
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: wanna leave at five? I have to tell you, Michael,
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: on day three, I started taking my computer home to
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: do work at home after I put the girls down. So,
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, who am I behind the position? I'm an
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: incredibly hard worker. I'm incredibly loyal, which they knew before
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: they even hired me from the references that they checked.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: And yet we were hiding Then I wanted to leave
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: at five. I mean, I wanted to leave at five
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: because I wanted to be home with my family. That
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: was my choice. Yes. But I also had a daycare,
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: like a provider at home who I needed to relieve.
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  Speaker 2: So I. I mean, can you imagine? And we're still
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: doing this today. So, I mean, I and then I
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: sat there. I sat there at work. So I get
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: the job. And we don't tell that I want to
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: leave at 530. I oblige. I mean, I have this
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: conversation with her and I push back and she does
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: not say that I can leave at 530. I'm like,
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: I understand where you're coming from. I'm a recruiter too.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: I see what you're saying. But she's like, please just
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: get the job first. So we don't say anything. I
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: get the job. Day three, I told you, I'm taking
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: my computer home and I'm doing work at home. but
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: I'm staying until like five 30 and I'm looking around
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: and everyone is, you know, staying, but they're chit chatting
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: at their desk. And I'm, I'm like tied in knots
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: that I'm now like, and I'm, I'm just, I'm not
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: even doing any work. I am not productive. No one
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: is really that productive. I can't speak for everyone. It
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: didn't seem like they were productive. And I am sitting
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: at my desk and I'm like, so every day I
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: kind of inched up. It was like, Five, five, 25.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: I'm like leaving five 20. And I'm like, like a
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: week or 10 days. I finally, I walk into my
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: boss's office who I'm still friends with today, by the way,
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: just texted him the other day. And it's been years
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: since he, and he left years ago and I go
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: into his office and I'm like, I just want you
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: to know I'm going to be leaving at five o'clock
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: to catch a train. Go home to my babies. If
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: you need me, here's my phone number. Put it in
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: your phone. You need me. You can call me. I'll
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: be available. Not a problem. He's like, yeah, I noticed
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: that you've been leaving at five. He noticed. I mean,
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: if that didn't make my heart sink, but I was like, well,
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: you noticed. So like, what am I hiding it for? Okay.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: So, so how did that make you feel? having to
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: hide part of yourself just to get the position.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't like that part. I mean, I'll be honest.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: I didn't like that part, but I understood that that
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: was the game that we had to play. I mean,
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: I thought to myself, I stood up for myself. I
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: spoke out. I had multiple conversations with her about it.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: You know, this was again, going through like a third
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: party and a recruiter. So I didn't have access to,
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: you know, the directly to the company. And this was
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: a really great job and opportunity. And I thought to myself,
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: you know, I talked to my husband about it. I
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: talked to my mentor about it. And when I say
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: a great opportunity, like, It was the job. I always
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: look at these things as it was a great job.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: And did it have upward mobility and upward trajectory potential?
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: It did. And the immediate job itself, like great company
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: stability in terms of the company wasn't going anywhere. It
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: only had great upside, multi-brand. So I just looked at
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: everything and the package itself in terms of compensation, which
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: I do look at. It just... it had base, it
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: had bonus, it had stock. So this was now upside
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: potential to create, you know, really good upside for my family.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: And I thought this is the kind of job and
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: where I am in my career that could be a
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: really good job and a good, not just a job,
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: it could be a career and it could be like
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: career fulfilling, similar to where I was at Saks and
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: where I had just come from was not that place.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: Because in between SACS and this job that I'm talking
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: about was not a great fit. So I was sort
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: of ready for this kind of opportunity. And I thought,
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: you know, is this sort of, is this what we're
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: up against? You know, being like in these times today,
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: we still have these sort of things that stunt us and,
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: And is the recruiter, does she see things like this?
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: You know, I mean, I had sort of been out
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: of executive search and placing people in a way that
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: she had. And so did she know something that I didn't?
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: And so should I take, you know, is it, you know,
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: do I like, is it worth like walking away from this?
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: because I had been interviewing at other companies and other
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: opportunities hadn't been like this. So, I mean, I really like,
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: was it worth falling on the sword? And the answer
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: was no, because I too was interviewing and interviewing the
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: company and I liked everyone I met. And so I
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: didn't like, I mean, that's a long answer of how
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: I sort of weighted everything out, but To answer your question,
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: do I like feeling like that? Absolutely not. Do I
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: think that it happens more often than we like? Yes,
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: I think it happens a lot. And I will say
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: that I think it happens to women. Okay. Because I
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: think that women are looking for flexibility. I think that
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: more often than not, women are looking for flexibility and
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: I think that if a man wants to go and
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: coach Little League, it's like, you're like the best dad ever.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: And if a woman wants to go and relieve their sitter,
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: it's like, there she goes again, leaving the office early.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: It's frowned upon.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: So when you heard those comments, did those comments affect
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: your affect your, uh, relationships with your coworkers or did that,
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: or did they affect your job in any type of way?
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: No, no, I would, no, I would never let that affect.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, even my boss, like he, he
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: was amazing. I mean, he, you know, I think that he,
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: he was like, yeah, I noticed, you know, but I mean,
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: I think that he just wanted me to know that
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: he noticed, but Certainly wasn't going to, but then I
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: just figured, okay, like, I guess I just have more,
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: you know, hard work to do. It just makes me
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: work harder, you know? So I guess it just makes
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: me prove myself. But, you know, I, I tell you,
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: I took my computer home. I say it all the time,
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: three days into the job. I never, I took it
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: home every day for like seven years. but you know, look,
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: it afforded me a promotion. You know, I got promoted
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: amongst my peers. I became head of the, you know,
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: it's twice in my career that I've been promoted amongst
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: my peers. I built incredible relationships and I, you know,
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: it was running the division and, um, and, and I
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: had a really great career there. So some worked out
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: for a long time till, you know, it didn't. Gotcha.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: So looking back over 20 plus years, what did Julie
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: need to learn or what did Julie need to develop
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: that no organization ever taught you?
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: Hmm, what did I need to learn that no organization
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: taught me? That's a good question. I mean, I think
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: that what, I guess in hindsight, I mean, I think
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: in hindsight, what becomes really important that you don't learn
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: You don't learn as you're coming up until you're sort
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: of at the more senior stage of your career. You
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: might be doing it. And if it's in your personality
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: and if it's inherent in you, you might be doing
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: it all along is to build relationships. So building relationships
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: and acting in a certain way of like, you can
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: end self-advocating for yourself. So always letting your boss or
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: those around you know what it is that you want
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: to do, whether it's, you know, in your career or
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: maybe it's doing something else. Maybe you're doing your actual job,
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: but you're like, huh, I don't know if I really
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: love what I'm doing. I mean, being careful who you're
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: sharing that with because you don't want to lose your job. But, um,
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: But maybe there's something else that you want to learn
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: or want to do because maybe someone in the company
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: could say, hey, I could use you. You've got great skills.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: You're a problem solver. You're curious, whatever. So to answer
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: your question, it's– and they kind of go part and
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: parcel because if you know other– if you are networking
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: and you know other people, not only in your division
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: or in your department, but if– if you know people
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: within the company and you have dealings with them, maybe
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: a meeting or just you see, you meet someone or
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: you just seek them out. You're like, oh, that person
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: is really, you know, they're higher up than you. They're
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: really interesting to you. Maybe you want to be them
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: one day, just invite them for coffee. So it's networking
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: outside of your realm. And then it's, you expand your network,
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: you expand your own horizons to maybe learn something else
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: that you want to do. And then you expand your
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: own mind to say, maybe I can do a project
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: or do something so that then you're expanding your own
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: knowledge base of, I don't want to just do my
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: own job. Maybe I can raise my hand or maybe
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: I can shift into, because once you're in the company,
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: Then your world can open up. You don't have to
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: always leave the company to go do something else. It's
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: a lot harder if you're in marketing to then go
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: and leave your own company and go to another company
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: and do something completely different. It's a lot easier to
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: be like, I'm just going to raise my hand and
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: shift departments. Mm-hmm. Right. But you have to know people
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: and they have to know you like, yeah, she's a really,
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: you know, they're a really good problem solver. They're really curious.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: They're a hard worker. Give them a shot in a
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: different area because they have a lot of the same
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: or similar skills, even if they don't have the exact
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: experience that you're looking for. But you do that by
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: networking and by advocating for yourself. And I'm not suggesting that.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: I wanted to do that exact example because I was
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: always sort of where I wanted to be, but building
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: relationships and I was pretty good at advocating, but I
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: would say that like building relationships, I did, but I
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: feel like as I got, as I sort of changed
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: companies and, you know, sort of climbed the ladder, And
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: especially in this last job, I think that I could
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: have been a lot better at doing that. I sort
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: of took my eye off the ball. And so that's
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: something that I would say that that's something that I
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: should have been doing better. Okay.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: So one question that sits at the center of every
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: conversation that I'm going to have on this podcast is
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: who are you behind the position?
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: Who am I behind the position? I am a, I'm
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: a hard worker. I am a loyal person. like a
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: loyal to the company. And I am someone who will
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: give you 100%. And I am someone who I like
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: to feel supported. I like to feel supported in my role. And,
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: but I'm very human. I mean, I'm a very human leader.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: I like to laugh. I like to laugh at work. Okay.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: You know, I think that I used to tell my team,
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: you know, we're not, we do important work because we're
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: bringing talent into an organization and we are changing lives.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: But we also can't take ourselves so seriously. But who
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: I am is, you know, I'm a problem solver and
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: I'm curious. And I will help people get anywhere that
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: they want to go. And I consider myself a mentor
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: and someone who helps people.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: Okay. Well, thank you for coming on our podcast today.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: Thank you for just opening up and showing us who
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: Julie is behind the positions. And is there anything else
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: that you would like to tell our listeners today?
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: I don't think so. No, thank you for having me on.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: I really enjoyed the conversation. Thank you. Okay.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you. And again, we would like to welcome
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: you to our listeners. And we hope that our listeners
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: have learned something more about Julie and are able to
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: take something from your life and even add it to
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: theirs as we're still beginning to learn who we are
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: in the various positions that we hold in life. So
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: once again, we want to say thank you.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Michael. If you've enjoyed this episode, share it
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: with your friends.