Transcript

Darkman 1990 · Citizen Frame

0:00
Music.
1:02
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Citizen Frame.
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I'm your sweet, sweet, charming, and very good-looking host, Kieran.
1:10
Totally. Thanks, Trevor. Yeah, I mean. Thanks, Trevor. Well,
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of course, as I said, you know.
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Wow, that was just wasted. Complete deaf audience. Tumbleweed moment.
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Fuck me. My self-esteem just shot right to the fucking floor.
1:25
Listen, guys, we are late in January month. A couple of things,
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a couple of changes here.
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We're not going to be due in January months and March months.
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Unless it's Halloween or Christmas. Those are our go-to retrospect months.
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So what we're going to do here is just tell you what we're going to do next. Yeah, pretty much.
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Because there's new releases we'll get to or we'll miss.
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For instance, Nosferatu is coming in about a week. The only reason we've delayed
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it, I had the flu last week.
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So I didn't get to it in time. and I certainly want to see it in the big screen.
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I don't want to take anything away from the film because it's a big one and
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it's my decision if I'm going to tell Robert Eggers to go fuck himself or if
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I'm going to go, okay, this man's got some talent.
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I'm looking forward to see what he does next. You're really making Edgar sweat with us?
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That's right. That's right. He's really nervous. Yep.
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So what we're going to do here is that we need to get one in here just for you
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guys' patience. We do appreciate it.
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So we're going to talk Sam Raimi, Darkman.
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Oh, yes. I remember it actually quite well, including the marketing campaign.
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But we'll get to that in a second.
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Some sad news, sadly. We literally just found this out, that David Lynch,
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one of the probably, if not the most iconic filmmaker out there,
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has passed away at the age of 78.
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Now, we've talked David Lynch quite a few times. Me and Trevor always had some good fighting words.
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Obviously Trevor being a big Lynch fan and me not being so much of a Lynch fan
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but I'll tell you what I will say this,
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I've been proven wrong with Lynch and the reason I say that I saw it I watched
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Lynch movies through the podcast eyes like we say religiously and I did find some,
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common ground with some of his work. I can appreciate what he was trying to
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do. I can appreciate his visual storytelling.
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I can certainly appreciate his writing.
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And Mulholland Drive was an absolute pleasant, pleasant surprise.
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And I own that movie today, and I've watched it a couple times since.
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And so I've been proven wrong with
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a lot of Lince's works without really giving him a
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shot and that's on me but most
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importantly what lynx has done is what he's
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done for the cinema world itself it
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shows with two big things the stars that want to work with him i i don't think
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he can throw a rock in hollywood without a star who never wanted to work with
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david lynch so he had he has something there that the stars and the actors and
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the actresses have all seen that wanted to participate in his madness.
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Because quite frankly, a lot of it was madness. As quirky and batshit crazy
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as this stuff was, whether it's my taste or not, everyone wanted to be a part
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of it and wanted to be on board his magical train ride.
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And most importantly, probably this goes to a lot of our listeners,
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David Lynch was really respected by the fans.
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He has such support and such loyalty from his fan base.
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And I can already see it already on social media. The minute his announcing
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of his passing, the emails are coming in, the social media hits are coming in,
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and a lot of sad faces today in the Hollywood world and in the fan base world,
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especially in the world of David Lynch.
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Rest in peace, Mr. Lynch. and I'm
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going to pass it on to you Trevor if you've got anything you want to add there no that
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was actually some very nice words by you Kieran and yeah
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100% as you know I'm a big Lynch fan and
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you know I consider him to be one of the all
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time great filmmakers if not the all time
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great filmmakers a completely unique one
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off completely authentic in his own unique vision
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you know the world will be a much boring place
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without him i actually had the pleasure over
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about 10-15 years ago i had the
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pleasure of being in an audience when he gave a talk actually
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about transcendental meditation in belfast here
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and he came across as a complete gentleman and he was very witty and even though
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like the bulk of the audience including myself were there really to hear about
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the likes of twin peaks and his films blue velvet and such and Lynch was there
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to talk about Transcendental Meditation.
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He still indulged us, so he did and he was just a complete gent and very witty
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as well, I would say, and 100% authentic.
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Yes, the world will indeed be a much more boring and sadder place without him.
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So rest in peace, David, and thanks for the personal inspiration over the years.
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There you go. See, we can't be serious at times. You know?
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Yeah, you know. Now we're just going to flip that coin and talk Darkman.
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And I love Darkman for completely different reasons, you know.
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I remember 1990, 1989, 90, obviously after the success of Batman,
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and I believe, I could be wrong, Dick Tracy was coming out at the same time.
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And Sam Raimi, obviously hot from The Evil Dead 1 and 2, but he haven't really
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dipped his toes into the bigger budget.
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I guess you can say, and he's always in, he's always been in bed with Universal.
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Yeah. I've always respected Universal and his, their loyalty to Sam Raimi.
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He does a lot of his independent stuff, like for love of the game and simple plan.
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All were all through Universal. I remember one called The Gift is Whale with
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Cate Blanchett. Yeah. I'm not sure.
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Yeah. I haven't seen that in years, but I'm not sure. Cause he went, I think.
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I want to say the Quick of the Dead and the Gifford, Columbia,
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Sony. Possibly. And then he, that's where he went from Sony to Spider-Man.
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I remember. I could be, yeah. I could be wrong. I could be wrong.
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Yes. I remember first seeing Darkman as soon as it was released on video.
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You know, it was obviously given a cinema release here, but as I've discussed
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in previous podcasts, I think it was an 18 certificate.
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So the cinemas wouldn't let us in to see them. Jesus. Your rating system. Yeah, no, seriously.
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Because back then, there was so much controversy with the video nasties,
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Scar, like basically anything remotely horror, they slapped an 18th certificate on it but yeah,
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I remember, so I caught it on video straight away as soon as it came out on
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video because as a kid I was a huge Evil Dead and Remy fan and yeah, well, we'll get to it.
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Now, in 1990 when they came out, now this film.
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Pretty much tanked now, it made
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they say it made its money back but it didn't
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and the reason it didn't is because the marketing killed it
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they marketed this film to the hill and nothing against that you know with the
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popularity of Dick Tracy coming out and with Batman they had all they had was
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this poster of a little shape on it and it said who is Darkman and that was
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kind of their marketing ploy and it just didn't work,
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despite it and when during screenings test screens came out just people are
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laughing at it because at that time i really don't think.
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The sam raimi's horror comedic you
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know like with evil dead 2 would be a perfect example no i don't
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i agree i don't think it trends people weren't really on this kind of comic
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book is board as of yet even though no batman and dick tracy were coming out
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or was out people when they see the Sam Raimi name wanted horror and I think,
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That's what kind of hurt him. But at the end of the day, it's a cult hit.
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People love Darkman now. So it's found its niche in audience,
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just like Carpenter stuff.
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So, but it obviously, and I'll tell you what, I'll tell you what,
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watching this again, Sam Raimi's first action film is Darkman.
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And I got to tell you, there's some really good fucking shots in this film and they're fun as hell.
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Yeah. Like you say, 100% like fun from start to finish, just pure enjoyment.
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Bit of a rollercoaster ride. I think what hurt it as well is that even then,
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in 1990, whenever it was released, Evil Dead and Evil Dead 2,
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which he had made previously, they still weren't mainstream.
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In fact, they still aren't, which is a good thing. So Sam Raimi wasn't mainstream.
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So I think a lot of mainstream audiences, and I could be wrong here,
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just didn't get Sam Raimi or his style of filmmaking, which is this sort of,
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you know, sort of over-the-top comic book-esque.
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I'm talking about the Evil Deads here, especially the first and second one,
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but the third one as well, actually.
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All of the ones Raimi did. So I think a lot of people just didn't really get
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or sort of know Raimi's work.
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So they didn't really understand it. I mean, it could be barking up the wrong
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tree completely, but who knows?
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Well, the one thing Sam Raimi's always done is never ever sell out.
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He's always had a quirky vision. Even with the Spider-Man.
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Well, I have issues with his more recent Marvel film. He has Dr. Strange.
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Yeah, well, we'll talk maybe down the road there, but we already talked. We've covered it.
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Remy's got a very Kraven style to him where he winks at the audience for everything he does.
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100%. And him and Kraven always had that in common.
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And you can see it to this day. Remy's always had this...
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Beautiful blend of new old
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cgi or new cgi whatever era he was filming in and
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then you had beautiful matte and modeling and i
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don't think it was green screen i think it was blue screen back then when they
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were filming this kind of stuff i can't remember i could be wrong but he always
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had camp effects that who's remy is but until he got to spider-man where you
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were dealing with 200 million budgets of course that's gonna be more ump the
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up the game i understand that but when And you still see,
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even his current stuff, even what you just mentioned with Doctor Strange,
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Drag Me to Hell, The Quick and the Dead,
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all these films, and the evil in the Army of Darkness was come out after this,
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all these films are all going to have that almost Warner Brothers Looney Tunes violence. Absolutely.
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And they look like they're, you
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can immediately identify them as Sam Raimi films, you know what I mean?
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With the crazy, you know, camera shots and, you know, I remember,
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I think in The Quick and the Dead, there's one where Lance Henriksen gets shot
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through the head and the camera follows the bullet right through his head. You know?
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That's Gene Hedges. Pure Sam Raimi. And like you say, he described him himself
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or certainly Evil Dead 2 anyway, as a spook show.
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It's what I would describe as ghost train horror.
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It's a bit of fun. It's a bit of a laugh. I mean, Jesus.
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His fucking production company is Ghost House Pictures. Yeah.
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You know, he's there to, yeah, he's a, you're going to have a,
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yeah, he's, he's a bubblegum, he's, he's, he's bubblegum pop,
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but we said this kind of like it was a carpenter.
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He's a B film, he's a film director with B film, with B, with a bill, with a B film feature.
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That's, that's. And I love that because, you know what I mean? That's my thing.
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I love the whole sort of, give me the sort of whole B movie,
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Carpenter, Sam Raimi, much more authentic stuff any day of the week over some
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big budget Hollywood mainstream film.
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Yes, you can still like mainstream films, you know, big budget Hollywood blockbusters.
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In a different level, or on a different level, but any day of the week,
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give me Sam Raimi, unrestricted, definitely.
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All right, let's go ahead and jump into our boy here.
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The film has so many different winks, not any winks, but nods to the hat,
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especially with, he got the idea really with, and I can see it now clear as day,
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with an old comic book and old TV serial called The Shadow.
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And it definitely plays on that especially if you see the Alec Baldwin version
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that came on a few years later that bombed which I thought was actually kind
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of good well there's also big sort of homages there to the Universal Classics
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you know like The Invisible Man or even you know ones like Dr.
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X, Mad Scientist well you have, but you're talking that's what you got with
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A Man of a Thousand Faces Lon Chaney so you've got that Phantom of the Opera,
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all those kind of feel to it The Elephant Man as well Yeah, The Elephant Man.
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It was kind of fun because I didn't realize this. Sam Ramsey's good friends
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with Joel and Ethan Coen.
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And in fact, it was Joel Coen who edited Evil Dead.
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The Evil Dead. And that's how Francis McDormand got on board.
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I would say as well, the Coen brothers are in Darkman. Yeah.
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And so as the Oldsmobile, you know, the car from The Evil Dead.
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And that scene towards the end, the finale, were, well, the finale that's ripped
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off, but there were a couple of scenes actually arguably ripped off by the Mission
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Impossible series, but yeah.
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Oh, you can't, yeah. I mean, that's the whole point, isn't it?
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Well, yeah, I'm not like... Don't be that guy. I mean, come on.
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I mean, then we can just say Mission Impossible, the new one ripped off from
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this, you know, what do we draw the line?
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No, I'm not having a pop at them, like, properly, but I'm just saying that there
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are a couple of scenes here that crop up again let's just say very similar ones
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in the mission impossible the first two mission impossible films this is danny elfman's first,
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time with Sammy. And obviously they'll work together for a long time after this.
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But it's funny because the music sounds a lot like Batman.
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Totally. But that's okay because it's Danny Elfman's score. He wrote it.
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And most composers take their own stuff and mix it.
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Plus it's technically a super, more than technically, it is a superhero film
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as well, albeit a very dark one. Yeah.
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Now, what really works with the film is how you're introduced to everybody and
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you're pretty much introduced to the villains right away. And I mentioned Dick Tracy. Brilliant.
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I mentioned Dick Tracy because the opening scene, all the bad guys got Polly, who's the bald one.
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You got Durant, who's got the bad bowl cut. You got the one leg guy.
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You've got Rick, who's the nerd, who's obviously Ted Ramey.
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You've got all the bad guys have these characteristics and a lot like Dick Tracy characters do.
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And they're obviously zany over the top with their laughter and their,
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you know, one line, one line. The dialogue and stuff, you know.
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Yeah, it's got that 50s noir comic book feel.
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Very. And they even, yeah, totally, 100%. And they even have Durant,
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you know, as a character quirk, he cuts off the fingers of his victims and all.
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Yeah, well, that's right. I have that line.
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To keep them as souvenirs. He goes up to the baddie.
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He goes, well, they're all baddies. He goes up to me and goes,
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let's consider my points. Chops on his finger.
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I try not to let anger get the better of me.
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Two, cuts off his finger. I didn't always succeed. and three,
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I have seven more points.
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That's a great fucking line. Yeah, totally.
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And again, that's something you would see in Goodfellas, like Pesci would do
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or something like that, but he'll sell it and you'll cringe.
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You're like, oh, you vile fucker. But these guys are just fucking hamming it
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up and having a great time.
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Exactly, you're on board with
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it. It's like a bit of a, it's a roller coaster, you know what I mean?
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So what does she, Julia, find in Strax? She finds... What is that document she finds?
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He's giving money to Durant, and he says it's payoffs? Yeah, pretty much.
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Pretty much. He's in bed with Durant. Not literally, but Durant's his right-hand
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man, and they're looking to basically take control of the city.
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It's basically similar to part of the plot of Robocop.
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It does have a Robocop bill, too, visually.
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Yeah. Yeah, he basically is looking to take over the city,
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and rebuild it basically and make a load of
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money but yes there's incriminating documents where
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he's been paying off gerant basically and francis mcdormand she finds it this
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document and then she takes it to the lab so then gerant to her boyfriend's
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lab yeah so okay that's why that's why let's stop right there first of all julia
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julie is a fucking clueless idiot.
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First of all, she goes to her boss and spills her guts. Hey,
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you've been stealing. Yeah. Why would you do that? But the plot has to be forwarded.
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Why would you fucking do that? Well, I don't know. Well, I mean,
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obviously you have to forward the plot. But yes, yes. When you totally examine it, yes.
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Well, she's calling him out on his bullshit.
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You know what I mean? She's saying, I know what you're up to.
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Because she's a lawyer. So I suppose she's doing her job. You know,
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you can defend it in that way.
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She's basically found out about him and she being honest has decided to call
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him out on it so yeah I mean it works for me it's not a complaint it's just
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like yeah you're sort of giving the game away early here Julie,
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she does it again don't get me wrong.
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So they got this you know this rubber that's lasting for 99 minutes yes it's
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a skin graft it's kind of neat because and you know Well,
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Poria, what's his name? Yakirito.
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That's our boy's partner. And even though we only met them for just a few moments,
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they had quite decent little chemistry.
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So when they finally find out, wait a minute, this is lasting over 100 minutes
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now, it's because the lights went out.
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And they realized there's something to do with the darkness that's letting the
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skin, the rubber not melt.
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So that's how they can plant the seed for what we're about to deal with in the near future here. but.
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It's kind of a brutal little death that the poor guy gets.
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And I'll tell you what, it's funny because this is Liam's first starring action
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role in America. Yeah. Pretty much his first really starring role.
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And he, the scene where Yakito gets, you know, bagged over the head,
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which I think is a horrible death right there, but then they shoot him.
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They shoot him, yeah, point blank. Ted Remy tells him.
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Yeah, and Remy, Remy as the director, not the brother, cuts away real quick.
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You don't see anything, again, comic book violence, but who sells it is Liam Neeson.
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Because when he screams, when they kill him, and you really do buy it.
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And what I do like about this, you got the same thing with Batman.
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With Keaton realizing that Joker's want to kill his parents, stuff like that.
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You have these darker elements in these comic book stories that are driven by
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the actors who can ham it up in one scene and then do something like this in
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this scene, which I thought really worked.
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And also the direction of course where it doesn't have to be gratuitous it doesn't
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have to be Joe Pesky you know, shooting him seeing everything of him shooting,
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blowing his head off like you say, it cuts away to Liam Neeson's reaction which
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basically sells it even more powerful than actually seeing it would have been,
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exactly, oh god damn it also I would have to say as well my stupid notes hold on, where was I?
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Fucking notes, fuck off I hate the new word. I hate it.
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I hate the new word. The new word document I use?
21:16
WPS office? I gotta do something else, because this is a piece of shit. Piece of shit.
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Alright, go for it. Are we recording this? No, I'm fucking keeping it. I don't care anymore.
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I want fucking Bill Gates to hear this. And he'll be like, God,
21:30
I can't waste it to listen to Citizen Frame. They always make me laugh.
21:34
And then he'll be listening to it. Yeah, because he tunes in every week.
21:36
Yep, and then he'll be listening to this, oh my god, Kieran doesn't like word.
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I gotta do something different.
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Right, but anyway, back to the film. I would say that Liam's beaten and absolutely
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brutal, left for dead treatment is pretty tough going as well. It does have that.
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It works because you're like eww, but you're not like offended.
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Like you're not looking away.
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Because it's got that Frankenstein monster kind of, you know,
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when he puts his hands on the two spokes, whatever.
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And his hands are burning off. It was so great. It's so stop motion. I love stop motion.
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Tall and cheek. And then when the place blows up, he just flies.
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He's like, ah. Yeah, into the water. Yeah. Yeah. And all that's left of him is his ear.
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And the barrier? Yeah, the barrier of the ear. That's awesome.
22:28
Yeah. Now, I do like, he has nice transition shots.
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Yes, I was going to say about that. Yeah, when Julie's sitting in front of him,
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she happens to be in front of him when it blows up.
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And then the backdrop behind her changes into her funeral scene.
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Yes, that's right. No, no, Remy, yeah, it's very well done.
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Even though there is a bit of superimposing here, and through the passage of
22:49
time, some of those effects haven't aged very well, but they still work for
22:53
me. But it does work. Especially in context.
22:55
It does work because, again, it's a comic book movie, and it plays like you're
23:00
turning the page of a comic book.
23:02
So it can get away with that, and still get away with that kind of transition shot.
23:07
Yeah. I do love the Jenny at Goddard cameo coming up. And John Landis.
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Yes, exactly, in the hospital. Yeah, as you know, John Landers directed her
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in American Wealth of London.
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Now, the character's kind of a bitch. She's making fun of him.
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Oh, no, she is. That's the point. Okay, so I did catch that.
23:25
She was being very sarcastic and poking him and shit.
23:28
Yeah, exactly. It was like, you know, well, you can't feel it.
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You know what I mean? He's unconscious, so you basically fuck him.
23:35
This is where I get confused. He can no longer feel pain.
23:40
Well I think he can but it's enhanced I know for a fact that I think he can
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no no he can't because you remember there's a scene come up where he puts his
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hand over a fire to prove that he's Durant.
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So doesn't she say something they have a science where this character technically
23:59
should be in a lot of pain because he's obviously a burn victim they give him something,
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Yeah, she sticks the pin in him. Yeah, well, he can't feel pain anymore.
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But the drawback is his temper. Yes, I was going to say that, the rage.
24:15
So basically, instead of pain in the sort of regular sense, he has great rage.
24:21
And that's why you see, you know, whenever he's losing it, you see all the different
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sort of images and stuff, you know, inside his head and stuff,
24:28
especially later on at the foreground, which is a brilliant scene.
24:32
But yes, so I think, to be honest, I mean, I'm no doctor, I'm no scientist,
24:36
but I think they are playing loose and fast with real science here. Oh, who cares?
24:41
I mean, but I think that's what they're doing. I think she ejected him with
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the relievers. It's an exposition dump with Jenny.
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Yeah, but she's the one who got rid of his pain, technically.
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Well, I think that was a side effect of basically, I think he wasn't feeling
24:57
pain anyway, or his pain was turning into pure rage anyway because of what happened
25:02
to him with Durant and stuff.
25:04
I still think she was playing God, I think she did eject him But she was just
25:09
there to tell To let the audience know, to explain it to the audience And you know what,
25:13
Jenny at Goddard can explain Anything to me, any day of the week So there's
25:17
no problem Yeah, like that shower scene in American Wolf London,
25:20
Oh, exactly Yeah.
25:24
Pause,
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Yeah, there's some nice moments I feel like he goes back to his old office Everything's
25:31
fucking blown to shreds but everything's working fine,
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I'm just gonna but he gets a hideout yeah yeah I thought that as well I was
25:37
thinking like how the fuck did you know his computer survive and all of this
25:42
equipment where everything else was blown to shit yeah you know monitors work fine,
25:47
yeah they've just got a bit of dust on them basically you know that's pretty good,
25:51
But I do like little moments. I like little moments because Liam Neeson is pretty
25:56
much a one-man show here.
25:57
And everyone else is just side characters.
26:00
And I like the part, little things, where he finally finds out he can't use
26:04
his hands properly. And he keeps saying, you took my hands. They took my hands.
26:11
Even the stuff with the cat. But the stuff where he loses it is very good.
26:16
Yeah, first it's Count's book. Look at me. I'm a tin man. I'm a freak.
26:19
Blah, blah. And he's dancing.
26:20
Blah, blah, blah. But then he starts to cry and he loses it because he's realized what he's become.
26:25
Those are kind of cool moments that I really do enjoy.
26:28
Oh, the emotional hurt to it. And it very much harks back to the likes of the Elephant Man,
26:33
you know, the tragic doomed monster, even the Claude Rains Invisible Man and
26:38
stuff, you know, this, you know, sort of curse, you know, through science,
26:42
you know, because he's ultimately a mad scientist,
26:44
you know, even though he's been driven to it, you know, through what happened
26:49
to him by Durant and stuff.
26:50
I mean, it's almost going through that whole, if you could sum it up with one
26:54
film, but after what you just said there, you could almost say it's more of a Jekyll and Hyde.
26:59
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot going on here in terms of,
27:03
you know, the classics that are referenced throughout.
27:06
You know, there's even a bit of Batman itself in there, you know,
27:09
through the whole sort of dark side. There's a lot of 89 Batman in this.
27:12
Nothing wrong with that. But yeah. Yeah. I do like how he decides he's got to
27:16
figure out how to get a point A to point B. So he's got to go to each gang member.
27:21
And obviously we got our boy, Ted Raimi, who's in all of Sam's stuff.
27:25
And he's the Clint Howard, the Ron Howard.
27:28
And I just love where he goes, I told you everything, man. I told you everything.
27:32
You can let me go. And he goes, let's pretend you didn't tell me everything.
27:35
And he pops his head up. And then sticks him up the manhole.
27:39
And he gets run over by the truck, his head. You can see there's such a mannequin
27:42
in there too. But it's so fucking fun. And it ends just with a squish.
27:47
Yep. Again, you don't see it, but you don't have to see it because the sound
27:50
effect sells it. It's like the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
27:53
You don't actually see a girl getting put up on a hook, but you hear the sound
27:57
effect and it's much more effective.
28:00
Yeah, but I don't think he's doing as effective as like the Texas Chainsaw.
28:03
I think there's different grades there.
28:05
The Texas Chainsaw is more to shock you and make you feel uncomfortable.
28:09
No, it's a different type of tone. This one does a squish just for a comic book.
28:13
Some people are laughing with it. Yeah.
28:15
Yeah, there's a different tone but it's essentially the same.
28:17
Same concept, same concept, different tone. Yes.
28:21
I do like the whole sequence with Pauly. I think that's quite fun.
28:26
Yep that's my that's my favorite sequence actually and
28:29
it yeah because it's it kind of shows what
28:32
he can do and what he
28:35
has to work with and the whole 90 minutes and i like the whole how he watches
28:41
him he's the one he's the money man he gets the money and brings it over to
28:44
durant and he sets him up by becoming poly taking the money and putting two
28:50
first class tickets to ricky and Holly going to Rio I think it is or something,
28:55
yeah it's Rio and Dan Hicks is in these scenes as well he's one of the henchmen
28:59
so as Dan Hicks who would be in a lot of he died a couple of years ago he was
29:04
in the likes of you know Evil Dead 2 and a couple of other Sam Raimi films so good to see him as well.
29:11
Yeah. He's also on Wastemaster, Dan Hicks. I like.
29:17
So when Polly wakes up after he put him to sleep and he becomes Polly for that
29:23
short time, where Duran goes, well, let's get you there.
29:28
You're going to fly now, whatever. And he chucks him out the window.
29:31
He says, enjoy your flight and throws him out the window. Chucks him out the window.
29:35
And then the girl in the street sees Darkman sitting on the bench but also the
29:41
exact same person or so she thinks land dead on top of the car and she screams.
29:46
I love how he's just sitting there for like, why aren't you leaving?
29:53
Exactly, because his skin's bubbling up and there's a load of stuff you get
29:56
questioned here like, why doesn't Darkman just come out whenever it's dark, you know what I mean?
30:01
And whenever he can go over 100 minutes instead of always coming out during
30:06
the day whenever he's got a set time. Yeah, I just don't get why he's waiting
30:10
right in front of where the bad guys are in a poly gear, right next to the dead body.
30:15
While his skin's bubbling because he's run out of time. Yeah,
30:17
I was like, wouldn't you? You probably would have made it home by now.
30:20
Exactly. I got away with it.
30:23
Yeah. I do love, it's so hammy, it's so funny.
30:28
So when he decides to go see Julie again in the funeral home at the gravestone,
30:38
and he goes listen the doctor said you should not see me but you were in a coma
30:43
all these years I know but my doctors felt that it was good for you not to see me the whole line,
30:51
it's very dreamlike and it's almost done like a bad soap opera I was just about
30:57
to say it's super opera dialogue and all sorts you know,
31:01
well it's comic book dialogue we know stuff like this you know,
31:05
and yeah that's fine by me,
31:07
it works for me stuff like this, you know, if this was another film where it's
31:11
taken itself deadly serious,
31:13
I would be rubbing it to charades, but here it 100% works there's some stupid
31:19
stuff, I mean there's quite a few stupid stuff, but you go with it because there's
31:22
loads of it, but like when he's trying to mimic Duran's voice,
31:25
and all he does is listen to a cassette tape and all of a sudden he's like yeah I got this no problem,
31:32
It is a cheat, but you know what? It works fine, especially in the scene where
31:37
there's basically two Durants in Chinatown.
31:39
Yeah, that scene kind of bothered me a bit because he's got nine minutes left.
31:42
That's a long fucking nine minutes.
31:44
Also, when he, when the Chinaman goes to the Chinaman, sorry guys.
31:49
When the Chinese owner says, when the Chinese owner says, I can't pay you right
31:56
now, Durant just pauses, and then it's obviously Liam Neeson.
31:59
So he puts his hand, when I'm done with my cigar, you better have my money.
32:03
And he puts his hand over the light.
32:06
Wouldn't his hand just melt? Because isn't that plastic? Rubber?
32:10
I don't think it's actually plastic. It's rubber. No, it is rubber. No, it's skin.
32:15
It's actually some sort of... No, he says that at the beginning.
32:19
It's a rubber material. And he doesn't understand why it's melting and bubbling.
32:24
It's basically like, I don't know, I'm assuming again, they're playing loose
32:27
and fast with the science here.
32:29
But you get my point, right? You'd start seeing. Yeah, maybe it's the sort of
32:34
material that's put in fake tits. I don't know.
32:39
What? You know, yeah.
32:42
Silicone? Silicone. Yeah, maybe. I don't know. They're playing loose.
32:46
No, it's rubber. It should have melted right in front of them.
32:48
We should have done that.
32:49
Right. Well, you know, it's not a documentary.
32:52
I'll hop on it. Well, not about fake breasts. That's for sure.
32:55
What the fuck? I will always give this, because of the tone and obviously the
32:59
intent here, that I can easily bypass any sort of plot holes in logic, you know what I mean?
33:07
Or leaps in logic. All right, then how come you couldn't do that with the Santa Claus?
33:11
Because it was a different type of film on a different tone,
33:13
where it's trying to take itself too serious as a coochie Disney-esque kids film.
33:19
Sam Raimi, well, basically the Santa Claus was not tongue-in-cheek. This is.
33:23
Well, I think it was. I mean, come on. Not to me.
33:27
So, well, let's talk about your favorite scene, the carnival scene.
33:33
Yep. Brilliant. Really entertaining. Just take the fucking elephant.
33:39
I love when he's, give me the pink elephant. No, it's okay. I don't need it.
33:46
No, I want the pink elephant.
33:47
Give me the pink elephant. And he takes the guy's hands and he breaks them.
33:51
And the funny thing is, It's completely rubber. You can see that.
33:57
It's like putting on a rubber glove and you squeeze my hand and you go, ah!
34:02
But I know that's deliberate. I see, there's no need for that.
34:05
We know it's deliberate.
34:07
Yeah, but not only that, I would say that scenes like this,
34:11
I know they're campy and hamy and all the rest, but again, it adds to the plot
34:15
and forwards the plot in that we get more about their relationship and,
34:19
in fact, their doomed relationship, but also we found out more about his rage,
34:25
his internal rage and his journey to the dark side he doesn't,
34:28
his character arc here is not to the light side,
34:32
it's to the dark side well the sad thing is, this was supposed to be sequel
34:35
based, clearly opens up for a sequel at the end of the film but it never got
34:39
because of the money it lost but I know he did a lot there were direct video
34:44
sequels yeah, I've seen a couple of them,
34:46
Arnold Baslew, Durant Returns Arnold Baslew, they were bad actually,
34:51
but they were produced by Universal.
34:53
I remember the second one where it's a return of Durant and I think the third
34:58
one, I don't think I've seen the third one, which is basically Die, Dark Man, Die.
35:03
It's so bad, Die, Dark Man, Die. But it's meant, you know what I mean,
35:07
it's all part of the sort of end joke.
35:10
So again, there's Dipshit Julie. Oh, look, the papers. It's the Bussaurus memorandum.
35:18
She's like, she goes you can't you're not gonna get away with this so they let
35:22
her leave so what does the dipshit do,
35:26
They follow her. But no, that's actually quite a good plan. Yes,
35:29
she goes straight by the bad guys. You know, she's the... Yeah.
35:34
She goes straight to Peyton and leads the bad guys to him and then we'll have the big shootout.
35:40
Now, this shootout reminded me of Robocop a bit. Probably because it's the old
35:44
refinery, whatever it was.
35:46
I do love the chopper scene. Chopper scene's fun. Yep.
35:52
And again, there's clever stuff in there as well in terms of,
35:55
it's here that we'll find out that Durant is actually ex Special Forces and
35:59
stuff, you know, the way he handles the gun, and there's other wee nods to that.
36:03
And to be honest, I only found that out by looking it up.
36:06
So, you know, it just highlights that sort of, you know, this is,
36:10
you know, there's a lot of thought going into all of this, you know,
36:12
as campy and as fun as it is.
36:15
It's still quite seriously made from a technical level and a writing level.
36:20
Yeah, it is quite fun when he's hanging on the cord,
36:23
and he's being thrown through buildings and again
36:26
he can't feel pain so and he's
36:30
being thrown through cars and all sorts but yeah it is good fun and yeah the
36:37
effects are could be obviously green screen I guess you could say or blue screen
36:41
whatever it is there's a lot of superimposing but I'm okay with it I enjoy it
36:45
I don't give a fuck if you have a smile on your face and you're,
36:48
not rolling your eyes with it it's doing something right exactly and I miss films like this yeah,
36:54
It was right at the peak, right where the 80s was dissolving.
36:59
Yes, yes, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Let me ask you this. Right at the sort of end
37:03
of that? So they're on the top, right?
37:07
And Strack and the gang are on the top. And Julie falls off the construction site, right?
37:13
Yes. And she's handcuffed, right? So she's falling like a pyramid,
37:18
right? Yeah. How does she get stuck on poles?
37:21
Just by pure fluke. I mean, just by chance, it happened to be there.
37:27
No, I mean, it's impossible. You can't fall.
37:31
Again, I know what you're saying. Again, it's playing loose and fast with actual real physics.
37:37
Now, don't get me wrong. We are doing the comic book thing, so it gets passed.
37:42
But there are some times when you kind of need to look at something when you're
37:47
editing and go, we need to tweak this.
37:49
I would say about this sort of finale up on the rafters, very much,
37:54
again, going back to the 1989 Batman, it reminded me of the finale of that,
37:59
you know, up in the building.
38:00
With the Joker and Vicky Vale and Batman, hanging off the edge and stuff.
38:06
I had the one I'm thinking of came out later, the 92 Memoirs of a Visible Man. Yes, with Kevin Bacon.
38:13
No, it was Chevy Chase. No, Chevy Chase and Sam Neill. Yes. Their confrontation
38:16
on the top of the construction site. Yeah. I see a lot of that.
38:21
Don't get me wrong, but like I said, we're giving a lot of passes,
38:25
but when it comes to something like that, that twiggles.
38:28
And you can tell it's a bad cut, because when she falls, it's cut to she's on these poles.
38:33
It's like, do we miss something? How did the wind gust blow her over this?
38:38
This is impossible. Well, then of course he saves her as well when she's fallen.
38:41
Don't forget, he flies across. Well, he's a dark man.
38:45
Exactly, he's a dark man. You know, so he, no he does, but he does fly across
38:50
and catch her as she's fallen, which eventually comes off this hook thing or
38:54
whatever it is. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
38:55
Nobody understands how she got on the poles. I think you're trying to defend
39:01
it but trust me you're wrong watch it again it's a bad cut.
39:07
My understanding was that you failed but then you landed on this pole yes how.
39:13
By pure luck, by pure chance. Oh, stop the pure chance. No, seriously.
39:17
If this was any other director, you'd be going, you piece of shit.
39:21
I've just said that earlier on, that if this was a serious...
39:25
Yes, but you can't use that as an excuse to be sloppy.
39:30
Let me finish. Everything he's done has been pretty much spot on.
39:35
We went with it. We're having a good time. But when it comes to a bad edit,
39:39
and it is a bad edit, and you sit there and go, oh, that's cool.
39:43
You can do that. You can be sloppy. It's okay.
39:46
No. There's a difference between... Maybe I am biased. There's a difference
39:49
between competency and knowing what you're doing and being lazy.
39:53
And that shot is very lazy.
39:56
Well, it's one of very few in this film.
39:59
So, yes, I will take your word for it. I would have to re-watch it just in more closer detail.
40:06
So, take your word for it. But at the same time, I'll still let it...
40:11
I'll still let it go. No problem.
40:13
Maybe that is my Sam Raimi bias shining through. I know, but that's the problem.
40:17
You got to be careful with that because there's other good films that you might be insulting.
40:22
I'm like, well, dude, this happens at Darkman. You'd be like, well, where's Darkman?
40:26
I mean, you know what I mean? I could take that on board. That's fair enough.
40:30
Maybe, you know, I've never once claimed that I'm perfect. Wow. Like that shot.
40:35
I never do that either. Yeah.
40:38
Okay. But I do like Can I openly admit that
40:41
I am biased towards guys like Remy and his work I do like the ending where he
40:48
gives his speech to her and he tells her Peyton's gone now Just call me Darkman
40:54
And then Bruce Campbell Yeah Pops up There you go Good old Bruce.
41:02
Yep. Apparently, Bruce was originally Sam Raimi's first choice for the role,
41:06
but the studio said they didn't think he could carry the emotional stuff.
41:10
I agree. Smart move.
41:13
Yeah, smart move. I can't see nothing against Bruce Campbell.
41:16
I like the guy, but I can't take him as serious when you're seeing his partner
41:22
get gunned down, how Liam Neeson sells that.
41:25
Well, Bruce Campbell is a B-movie actor. He's the king of the B-movie actors,
41:28
but whereas Liam Neeson adds a touch of class to this and he's a serious actor.
41:34
Yeah and Francis McDormand don't forget. Yes I agree 100%. There you go Darkman,
41:41
Oh yes I think I like it again.
41:44
I remember watching I remember going this is going to be bad I remember just
41:47
like going back to like you know Thoroughly entertaining I would describe it. Yeah it is a good time.
41:54
I mean if anybody how can you sit there and watch
41:56
Darkman and start we could have
41:59
torn this to shreds but we can't because that's
42:02
how well it's directed because Sam Raimi
42:05
would just anytime we say something but you did this he'll
42:08
go yep but you did this yep it was
42:11
intentional and he'll tell you why he did it besides it's about being able to
42:17
get Sam Raimi even with the Evil Dead and his other works you know I would say
42:22
especially with the Evil Dead it's about getting him and getting his intention
42:26
and what he's trying to basically show us And I love that shit So I do.
42:31
Yeah, it's a fun ride. And you know what? It's an hour and a half.
42:35
It's the easiest hour and a half. It flies by.
42:40
Well, there's always something happening. Yeah. I do have problems with some
42:44
of the editing, and he doesn't get away with that.
42:46
And I want Sam Ramey to reach out to us and explain what happened there.
42:53
So, but if he wants to, he can reach out to us. It's CitizenFrame underscore
42:57
podcast on Instagram. And, of course, Facebook.
43:01
The website will be up in about two weeks. That's official.
43:04
Something fancy, guys. It's through our host site, Podbean. I didn't know we
43:08
got one. They said, oh, by the way, as you get one of these.
43:11
I'm like, all right, cool.
43:13
Nice one. But we need something else. I think we'll get more comments on board.
43:18
Because a lot of people I don't think like social media as much,
43:21
the Instagram and Facebook. I think they'd rather have a website to talk to.
43:26
Yes, but I think as well regarding social media, I found it with Phantasmagoria
43:30
on Facebook that personal pages, you know, like your own personal Facebook page
43:35
or whatever, will get much more traction, possibly down to the algorithms,
43:40
than a, say, a business page like Phantasmagoria or Citizen Frame.
43:46
There's much more interaction, possibly down to the algorithms,
43:49
actually very possibly down to them, for personal pages than actual business pages, so to speak.
43:55
Yeah, so, there you go look
43:58
for that mr fancy pants over here you know
44:01
that's all i've
44:04
got yep so i've got all right guys next up that's right uh bear with us it's
44:09
either going to be nosferatu but either way we're starting off with chucky and
44:14
we got chucky one and two as one retrospect one one podcast then we're gonna
44:18
do you know three and four together and then five and six just like we did five
44:22
13s and the Nightmare on Elm Streets.
44:24
And everyone seems to love how we did those.
44:28
Music.