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Female Firsts: Henrietta Duterte · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: And Samantha.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: And welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You, production of iHeartRadio.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: And it is once again time for another edition of
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Female First, which means we are once again delighted to
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: be joined by the whimsical, the wonderful Eves. Welcome, Eves.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: Hello. Thank you for that welcome.
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Thank you, as always, for coming on. Let's check in.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: How have you been? What's been going on?
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty good, honestly. I've been good. I've been ripping
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: and running back and forth.
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: And as I was telling y'all, I feel like I'm
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: on vacation because I'm in Atlanta right now, but it's
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: my hometown, so I'm not on vacation. Very much not
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: because I'm doing a lot of obligatory things. But also
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: it's like experiencing my own city from new eyes. It's like,
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: it's so interesting how quickly you can become acclimated to
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: a different thing in a different.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Place and way of being.
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: And I've been feeling a little bit of that and
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: how I'm experiencing Atlanta and coming back to it for
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: this short period of time.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: There's that.
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: And also on the female first note, there is actually
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: somebody who's been a part of our lexicon, our Our
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: totality of all the female firsts we've done over time
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: at Monia Lewis has a show currently in Athens, Georgia,
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: that I would like to see while I'm here, but
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: I only have so much longer. So I don't know
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: if it's going to happen or not. But the first
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: like internationally recognized Black and Indigenous sculptor. So that would
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: be nice to see, but I don't know if I'm
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: going to get to it because like I said, I've
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: been doing too much.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: So we'll see. You said this is in Athens? Yes,
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: it is in Athens. Yeah, that's a little bit of
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: a trek. So it's not like close to Atlanta.
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's at the Georgia Museum of Art. So if
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: anybody is listening, is running here and is in Georgia
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: or is willing to make the trek down, it's at
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: the Georgia Museum of Art. And I think it runs
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: through January. I'm not sure if it's a traveling show
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: or not. I'm not that keyed in to know where
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: else it might have already shown or will be showing
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: in the future. But I do know that that's quite
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: a stint in Georgia. So if you can make it,
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: it'd probably be worth seeing it because it's historical. And
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: if you like, if you're listening to this now, then
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: it's probably something you're interested in. And what y'all know,
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: I love photos. We talked about, we talk about all
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: the time on here. What, but like, how much better
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: is it to see the thing in person? And it's sculpture,
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: so it's so tactile. It's something that's so worth seeing
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: in person and in the round if you can.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: I love this, that you have been so busy But
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: to have this in the back of your head that
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: you're going to try to get to this event.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: Because I love art, you know? I can't help myself.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: I do love it.
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: But it's like experiencing it in person. Honestly, these days
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: can really feel like a point of resistance in so
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: many ways. It's like, not only is art being wrecked
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: by AI in so many ways, but it's also like
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: just another reminder that like, witnessing something in person can
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: help us tap into our humanity and spaces of ways
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: in which we like to connect to community because we're
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: talking to each other in the space. We're thinking about
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: things critically in the space, which is so important of
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: a way of resistance right now when so many people
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: are not interrogating how they use information. Okay, you got it.
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: How do you use it and how do you engage
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: with it is a different thing. But also you're talking,
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: you're having conversations with the past too, especially when you're
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: When you're viewing art, but like art like this, that
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: is so important historically.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. And I feel that that's a great transition,
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: having conversations with the past. I'm so excited to talk
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: about this person that we're talking about today. It's one
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: of those things where I've never even considered this first.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: And then I just wanted to learn so much more
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: about it.
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  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: Yes. So who are we talking about today, Eve?
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: Today we're talking about Henrietta Duterte.
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: I've heard it pronounced a couple of different ways, but
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: I'm going to say Henrietta Duterte today. But she is
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: the first woman owner of a funeral home. And can
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: I be honest? Like the reason I was like, I
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: feel like it's a good time to talk about a
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: funeral home owner because we're in spooky season right now.
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: I mean, there's a lot that's not spooky about being
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: a funeral home owner.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: It's such a base thing.
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: Mundane, necessary thing that everybody touches death. But also, I
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: was kind of disappointed in myself that, like, I haven't
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: done anything death care related. Because not only do I
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: love horror and I love scary things and spooky things,
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: I also do care a lot about death care and
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: have had to touch some of that myself. But also, like,
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: it's such an important field that I think So many
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: of us have experience with on one side or the other,
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: but we don't talk about a lot. And also, it
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: is so related to economics, to social situations, to class,
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: to money.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: It's related, too.
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: But also, as we'll get into a little bit in
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: this episode with Henrietta Duterte, it is.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: It's.
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: Related to the history of race in the United States
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: and how community care was provided for, how people were
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: provided for in their communities, and how they were looked after.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, I'm really excited to talk about her. Yes,
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: her story touches on so, so much. So, shall we
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: get into the history? Yeah, let's.
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: She was born Henrietta Smith Bowers in 1817, although there's
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: no exact date of birth. And her father was an abolitionist,
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: but her family, they had lived in Baltimore previously, but
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: they were free Black people, and they eventually moved to Philadelphia,
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: which would have been sometime around the end of the
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: 1700s or the beginning of the 1800s. And I know
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: your listeners know a lot about the history of abolition
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: and how it was really big in Philadelphia at the time,
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: and there were also a lot of free Black people
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: in Philadelphia. Her family was pretty well off. I think
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: they were in the clothing business. And she had a
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: lot of siblings. She was one of 13 children. And
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: there were some other notable people in her family, too.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: Not to mention the fact that her father was an abolitionist.
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: He was pretty prominent in that role. But her brother,
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: Thomas Bowers, was also a well-known opera singer who was
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: referred to as the Colored Mario, based after an Italian
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: opera singer. And y'all know, if you listen to other
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: episodes of Female First on Stuff Mom Never Told You,
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: the whole, the colored this, the colored that, when you're
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: naming them after somebody who is notable, who is some
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: other prominent European person, is like a thing that really
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: can grind my gears sometimes. I've seen in a source
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: that perhaps Thomas Bowers didn't really love being referred to
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: as the colored Mario. But there is an episode of
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: the old Western TV show Bonanza about Thomas Bowers. So
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: if you're into that kind of thing, go and watch it.
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: It's fully available on YouTube. And her sister, Sarah, was
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: a singer as well. And another brother was a public
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: speaker who helped found Pennsylvania's Anti-Slavery Society. But Henrietta grew
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: up in the Seventh War in Philly. And when she
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: started out, she was in the family business working as
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: a tailor. But there isn't, as there is in, as
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: is the case with a lot of other people we
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: talk about on Female First, a lot of information about
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: her early life. There are still some missing pieces and
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: some things that were probably transposed, changed over time with,
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: you know, the history of her history being talked about
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: through various sources. But she ended up marrying a man
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: named Francis A. Duterte sometime around 1852. Date is a
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: little nebulous. But he was a carpenter and coffin maker
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: who was born in Haiti. And he used his skills, apparently,
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: to make coffins without using nails. He was a member
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: of the Moral Reform Society and... was a secretary for
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: the National Colored Convention of 1855. And the theme of
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: that convention was economic and social liberty for free Black Americans.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: So you can see what her wheelhouse was.
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: Well-off, free Black people in Philly in the early to mid-1800s.
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: Abolitionists were around her. People who were engaged in civil
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: rights and working with Black people who were previously enslaved,
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: who were free. So there's definitely a lot of a
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: particular kind of social container that she's working within. And
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: it's clear that she really cares about the work that
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: she is doing and that her husband Francis is involved in.
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: He had a funeral home at 838 Lombard Street in Philadelphia.
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: And he ran that business. And of course, she was
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: there But around 1858, he died. So not super long
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: of a marriage. But at this point, this is when
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: the business was transferred to her.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: She began running the funeral home. home after her husband died.
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: And this is what made her the first woman owner
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: of a funeral home in the United States. And I
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: wasn't very clear about it in the beginning. She wasn't
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: just the first Black woman funeral home owner in the U.S.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: She was the first.
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: She's considered the first woman funeral home owner. Considering this
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: is a time when, I mean, death care and funeral
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: care was something that was, that a lot of people
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: who weren't doing it professionally held in their hands.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: Like, it was something.
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: That people did in their own homes, and a lot
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: of people outside of someone who was acting as a
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: funeral home director or as an undertaker, as she called herself,
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: were doing it, but she was doing it as a profession, and...
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: providing care for the community in this way. And it
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: wasn't something that a lot of women did either. So
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: it wasn't unfounded for women to be working in that realm,
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: but to be holding it in this professional capacity as
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: she did, she was for sure a pioneer. But she
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: even changed the name of the business to the H.S.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: Duterte General Furnishing Undertaker. And she was noted for her
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: skill and speed in burying the dead. This is a
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: lot of what comes up over and over, like she
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: did it quickly, which is, it matters. You know, you
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: got people to take care of. She served Black and
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: white residents. And in 1860, she was listed in a
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: list of 63 professional undertakers in McElroy's Philadelphia city directory.
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: And she was the only woman on that list. And
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: according to the Christian Recorder, which was a Black publication,
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: in March of 1862, she was, quote, So her clients
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: ran the gamut. You know, she had people from different backgrounds,
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: different races. And many of her bodies were put to
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: rest at Lebanon Cemetery in Philadelphia. Now, This is a
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: rabbit hole that people can go down if they would
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: like to. But it's not completely related to her story,
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: but it is part of her story. And considering I
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: told y'all I do like spooky stuff, this is where
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: a little bit of the horror comes in. Because it
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: was real-life horror. It's a true crime situation. At Lebanon Cemetery,
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: there was a grave robbing ring. And... Lebanon Cemetery was
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: a resting place for Black people in the city.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: It's one of the Black cemeteries.
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: Now, y'all know this was a big time of scientific racism.
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: And there is a whole history of the mistreatment of
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: Black people. And that includes Black people after they've died.
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: And there's a whole backstory behind this that you can
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: read that has social implications and implications around race. Because
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: there was some feigned opportunism around it where it's like, oh,
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: it's not totally about race. Like, it is about race
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: because Black people are more, they can be more forgotten.
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: And we really don't care about them as much. And
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: this is why we're robbing the graves here. But also
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: there was this feigned opportunism of like, well, if we
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: steal the Black bodies from.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: This cemetery, then the people.
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: won't cause as much of an uproar slash ruckus after
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: the fact. So it's a very interesting story that Henrietta
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: Duterte actually was a little bit wrapped up in because
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: a lot of the people that she took care of
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: as an undertaker did go to Lebanon's cemetery. And so
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: she testified at the trial and apparently the cemetery officials
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: wanted her to reenter the same bodies that she had
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: already buried. But yeah, that is one interesting part of
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: her story. And another one is that the funeral home
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: was also a stop on the Underground Railroad. Now, I've
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: seen this repeated in her story from sources. However, there
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: is no more information about that. And that's for good reason,
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: because that is covert information, information that had to be concealed.
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: But it also means that we don't have a lot
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: of information about the people who may have been led
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: to freedom under her care that she would have helped
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: along the way. And exactly how the operations went, we
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: don't know. I want to know. There's precedent for this
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: in other places. So her funeral home wouldn't have been
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: the only one that operated as a front in this way.
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: Of course, she was doing actual funerary operations, but like
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: another very important cause. Would have been that. She's not
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: the only business to have a business up front and
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: also be able to do this on the side. That's
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: one way that Black people with businesses were able to
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: help in the area. But apparently she did it by
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: helping people through hiding them in coffins and making the
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: members of funeral processions, whether these were real funeral processions,
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: not real funeral processions, how she hit them, how long
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: they had to stay hidden, what their names were, where
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: they were headed to, whether that was Canada. Those details
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: are missing. And it's a shame, but it's also not
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: a shame because it means that the people were doing
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: their jobs and keeping that information concealed. It's just from
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: a future person's perspective and wanting to know more about
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: these people and hoping to have their names and keep
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: them alive in some way. It is unfortunate in that way.
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: But a great part of the history and makes her
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: seem even cooler. Like, she already had this first, but
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: she's also doing this other important work. She also helped
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: fund Stephen Smith's Philadelphia Home for Aged and Infirmed Colored Persons.
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: She helped organize the 1866 Freedmen's Aid Society Fair to
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: Aid Free Black People in Tennessee.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: And her funeral home also did pretty well.
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: It earned about $ 8, 000 per year at the time, which
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: would have been somewhere around $ 300, 000 today. And her nephew,
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: Joseph T. Seth, worked with her for years, was learning
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: the ropes under her. And he got more responsibilities over time,
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: became general manager. And in early December of 1903... She
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: made an application for probate and letters of testamentary, and
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: she had a will and record of her estate. And
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: she gave her nephew, Joseph, her undertaking business, which was
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: located at 519 South 9th Street. That included horses, carriages, wagons, hearses, coffins,
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: ice boxes, stables, and everything in her office. And even
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: more than that is listed there. And she directed Joseph,
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: her nephew, to pay her sister, Sarah Beth, $ 5 per
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: week from the business. That would be about $ 187 today.
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: And she wanted her niece, Lucretia C. Miller, to allow
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: Joseph to stay in the family house at 517 South
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: 9th Street so that he could continue running the business
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: from close by. And also, this was interesting, which she
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: wrote in her will, to quote, maintain as far as
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: possible the present family relation.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: Which is like, I.
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: Find that to be a very interesting note because it's
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: a little more abstract than it is concrete. Like she
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: lists all these specific items that she has in her
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: will that is part of her estate, but she also
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: was trying to, from the grave, I mean like planning
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: to from the grave, have some sort of authority over the.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: Level of.
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: Engagement that her family continued to have after she was dead,
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: which is honestly, I think, very optimistic because you cannot
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: control that.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: You can't control it while you're living.
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: But especially after you die, you have no idea what
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: the family relationships are going to be like. So honestly,
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: I find it pretty endearing because she said as far
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: as possible, she knew... That might not be much, but
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: as far as possible, if you can maintain that family relation.
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: So I think that's a pretty endearing part of her will.
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: But she included many of her family members in her will,
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: and she was very specific with her wishes. Her personal
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: property was valued at about $ 1, 200, which would be about
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: $ 45, 000 today. And her real estate outside of that personal
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: property was valued at $ 9, 833 today. which would be about
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: $ 368, 000 today. So her property was valued pretty well. Her
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: family was already pretty well off. Her business was doing well.
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: And so it did seem like there was a level
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: of financial stability at the very least that she had.
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: A lot of the time, these episodes about female firsts
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: can end with the person not having a lot of
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: money and economic stability at the end of their life
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: and not even support from community members to help uplift
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: them economically at the end of their life which can
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: be pretty saddening to think about the irony of them
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: being this first that we're talking about today but they
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: didn't really see that and how they could maintain financial
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: standing So it didn't seem like that's the case with
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: Henrietta Duterte. But she was apparently preparing bodies until almost
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: the very last moment. She died in Philly on December 23rd, 1903.
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: And her own person who took care of her funerary
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: services was James Henry Irvin, who had studied under Henrietta previously.
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: And she's buried at Eden Cemetery in Pennsylvania. And Eden,
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: since we had a little bit of cemetery history earlier
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: with the Lebanon Cemetery, Eden Cemetery was opened in 1902
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: after Lebanon and another cemetery, Aleph, closed. Because at the
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: same time, there were ordinances that banned the creation of
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: new Black cemeteries in the city limits after those cemeteries closed.
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: And Eden was established in Delaware County as a place
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: where the disinterred graves from those other cemeteries were.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: Could go.
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: So a lot of interesting history when it comes to
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: the delineations between how people are treated in life and
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: then after death and who can go to who. And
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: there's a lot of segregation, who can take care of whom.
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: And then also the funeral homes would also provide other
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: services for Black people in the community, like providing them
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: with loans. So it wasn't just about death care. It
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: was also about just care, care of the living. as
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: well as taking care of people in your community. And
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: so there were places that people could go to where
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: they couldn't rely on a lot of other social organizations
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: and companies to take care of them. And in 1909,
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: Joseph and Lucretia, that was her nephew and her niece,
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: they dedicated a private room in Mercy Hospital in her honor.
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: And her nephew ran the business until he died. And
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: there's only one known photo of her, and it's of
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: her holding a child, which y'all can go look at online,
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: which I recommend you do. Because her story is one,
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: even though there's a lot of details and pieces missing
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: from it, there may be more uncovered over time. But
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: what does exist is definitely worth digging into a little bit.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. I know we say it every time, but I
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: would watch this show.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: That was a thought in my head. I was like,
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: I need this as a show.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: If I.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: Whole thing.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Even if we don't know for sure the details of
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: the Underground Railroad aspect, if there's coffins, like smuggling people
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: out in coffins, that needs to be in a show.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: That's just what I think.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: And when I mentioned Lebanon Cemetery earlier, there is this
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: article by Jessica Lee Hester called We the People. would
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: soon decide for them, grave robbing and the Black press
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: in 19th century Philadelphia, that you can read more about
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: what happened with that whole grave robbing ring there. But
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: in that article, the author talks about how a lot
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: of the media was sensationalized around it and created these
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: very vivid, image-heavy scenes of how the grave robbers looked
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: when they went to the cemeteries. And had to sensationalize
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: it a lot. And because this was right after the
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: Civil War, people were more used to sensationalized press where
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: things were very thrilling, not very positive, but extremely thrilling.
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: So you had these scenes and they were kind of
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: trying to keep up with themselves with that level of
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: hype after that. I feel like it's like We can
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: coin this as the fast and furious effect, where it's
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: like you just have to keep up with yourself after
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: you've done one sensational thing.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: You have to go to the moon next, you know?
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: And so.
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: This is what was happening in the newspapers. There was
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: definitely a lot of those moments where they were like, okay,
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: we can visualize this. The people will like it. They
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: got the coffins. They got the soil. You know, you've
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: got these ghouls, as they referred to them in some ways.
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: And then you got the Blacks and the whites. You know,
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: we can villainize the Blacks somehow, you know, because they
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: were also, you know, making sure to perpetuate certain harmful
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: ways of viewing Black people. in these stories too, where
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: it was like, somehow it was going to be the
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: Black people's fault. Like, clearly these graveyards, these cemeteries were negligent.
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: That's why these people were able to come. You know,
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: clearly the Black people don't care that much about their
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: own people. That's why they were, the grave robbers were
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: able to come here. So yeah, there definitely is a
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: lot that can be dramatized here and visualized.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: If you are not quoted in a book in the
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: future for the Fast and Furious effects, then there's no justice. Well,
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: that's a bit dramatic, Amy, but I do thank you.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: I'm leaning into the Fast and Furious effects.
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: I see.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: It's meta.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes. Well, thank you so much, as always, Yves,
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: for coming on and bringing these stories to us. I
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: was fascinated by this. I personally think in the U.S.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: we don't, talk about death enough and like the matter
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: of the will and the matter of who are you
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: going to have handle the death care part so I'm
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: a big proponent of talking more about that stuff and
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: more openly about that stuff so thank you for bringing
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: this story where can the good listeners find you.
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: Y'all can head to my website that's where you can
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: get to most things it is evesjeffcoat.com That's spelled Y-V-E-S-J-E-F-F-C-O-A-T
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: dot com. You can also find me on Instagram. I'm
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: at notapologizing. So any of the things I have coming up,
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: I'll post about on there or you can find on
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: my website.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: Keep in touch. Reach out.
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: If you have any comments about any of the episodes
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: of Female First or this one right here, feel free
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: to let me know.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: I'll chat about it.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: Yes, and if you go to the Edmonia Lewis show,
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: write in, let us know. Exactly. You can email us, listeners,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: at hello at stuffandnevertoldyou.com. You can find us on Blue
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: Sky at Mom's Top Podcast or on Instagram and TikTok
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: at stuffandnevertoldyou. We're also on YouTube. We have some merchandise
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: at Cotton Bureau, and we have a book you can
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: get wherever you get your books. Thanks, as always, to
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: our super producer, Rima, and our executive, Bruce Maya.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: And thanks to you for listening. Stop Whenever I Told
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: You is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
• 26:44
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• 26:46
  Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.