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From Darkness to Purpose · Intentional Guy

• Joe: You know, it's gosh, when you ask those stories about ⁓ who you are, it's it's it's more than just a Facebook moment, right? It's not that Facebook bio. ⁓ 'cause there's so many different things that culminate for you and I to be the people that sit in these chairs right now. ⁓ yeah. But the Facebook bio is of course, you know, I I I'm a husband, you know, Christy is is my my life mate, just a phenomenal person. You know her and a blessing it is to have her. ⁓ you I like to think that when you're ⁓ When you get married, you wanna marry a woman who makes you a better man. Mm-hmm. Life struck oil at the altar. Mike: Yeah. Joe: That's a great way to spend the life with the person that keeps your heart, right? Yes. Three great kids. You know, Joe's our oldest and then we have Kara, which you know, Kara's very active in the church and then Jacob, what a blessing it is. So in that family, just God has blessed that with a lot of love and and just the right people. ⁓ outside of that, you know, the backstory of course, before you ever tell my story, you have to tell the backstory. Right. Right. ⁓ come from a very strong traditional Sicilian family. Growing up, we didn't have a lot. ⁓ but we had family and we had a lot of love in that family. And we were grow I grew up with these very traditional Sicilian kind of views that family is tighter than everything. I'm the oldest of three boys. So it's me, my brother Mike, my brother Scott. Okay. And so all this cue up is kind of important because th the story doesn't have the same strength. Without it. Without it. I mean without it really doesn't, right? ⁓ the back story really is the power of the story. And you know, you think about this is where God starts the journey before he makes it his story. So we we grew up in some you know you don't have a lot. You grew up in neighborhoods that aren't the best. Right. A lot of times, right? So ⁓ you know, they were little they were they were feisty neighborhoods. And and you had the three of us. So you had you had me who was always that real dutiful oldest brother, you know, watching out, keeping track of everybody. You had Mike, the middle child, who just epitomized everything that a middle child could be, right? He he was that guy. And then you had Scott who was just the one who just laid low and stayed out of trouble and avoided all the stuff that, you know, myself and that Mike would create. And so we grew up and we kinda took our own path. Right. I would kinda go up and I and I stayed that straight lace, kinda doing good in school, in sports. ⁓ kinda knew what I wanted to do at a really young age. Always wanted to be a soldier, serve my country. ⁓ it was just ingrained. You know, my father served, my grandfather served, his father served. And it's just one of those things where I I couldn't think of anything I'd rather be than wearing a uniform and serving our country. so my path was really clear. Mike, who becomes the center of this story, took a much different path. You know, Mike at a very early age wa was walking in a different, darker path. And, you know, it it's it's his story to tell the details of that, not mine. ⁓ his story's powerful also, right? ⁓ also another story of redemption. But the reality is we grew up so most of my life was spent protecting my brother from the trouble he got in and he was good. So there was in a mud puddle Mike couldn't find that I hadn't ha walk in and have to help him clean up a little bit. And ⁓ I always laugh at everybody. You know, if you look at yeah, my nose kinda points at you going this way. 'Cause it's been broken so many times. And it almost started always with this phrase. Are you Mike's brother? And then after that the fist came in, right? But but yeah, I was. And so you know, I I had to jump in the fray. As we started going in, Mike started going deeper into the darkness. I started going in a whole different direction. Okay. But there are many times where, you know, I would really come in and help my brother and some of the situations were pretty serious. And some of the situations were were darker. My brother would start a a life of crime at a very early age. ⁓ and unfortunately I get really good at that craft. And he would eventually work ⁓ working his way to be a drug dealer in the area where I would work and become a cadet, start working my way to be a military officer. And and can't forget Scott. And Scott kinda just did his thing, but he really stayed out of that circle and ⁓ I think very intentionally. So he he was amazing in his own ways, but he kinda stayed out of the circles that Mike went into and kinda stayed out of the path that I did and he carved out his own own thing. And Scott's a great brother. But he doesn't come into this story hardly at all. So shout out to your brother. You're amazing. So don't want to think I don't love you. But ⁓ but this story really is is Mike and I as the central characters in beginning. Eventually I would get commissioned, ⁓ become an army officer, and my brother would get more serious into the darker parts of his life. It all came, and it's so funny when tell this story, right? Because right now, on this side, everybody sees Joe as who I am, right? They see me as a business executive, a CEO, right, ⁓ somebody who's you know involved with strong faith and walking with the Lord. Mm-hmm. But that was not how it is. And so the story is interesting because they never see this story coming. And usually when I lead in and I'm telling the story to people, I always say it like this. And the usually I try my best, especially when I talk to youth, I try to wear like a suit, really set that stage. So it kinda bam hits them. And then they're like, ⁓ my gosh, this is gonna be another guy who's a suit who has a story. And then it starts with this story. Hey, my name's Joe. You know, I do all this, blah, blah, blah, blah. ⁓ by the way, I spent four years in prison. Mm. Right. And that's where the story gets real, right? Right. I guess I did, by the way. And but ⁓ the reality is at this point, how did I get there? And then I get their attention in that point 'cause they don't see it coming. But then what happens is at this point, Mike, I was remembered I remember the phone call. I'd just gotten ⁓ back from leave. I was at officer basic training in Fort Knox, Kentucky. I was coming home for leave. And on that way there my brother Mike had committed a a serious crime. And I remember laying in bed, I'd just gotten in. It was so dark and I was so tired. And then Mike is like, Joe, Joe, Joe, Joe, Joe. Joe, I d he I did something bad. Well I gotta tell you what, that's Mike's woke me up many times and said that. So Mike telling me he did something bad. is pretty par for the course for the first two decades of our lives, right? ⁓ it's the question is what did he do bad this time? And I remember we're kinda driving and I get in the car with him and we're heading toward Fort Mead. We lived in in the Baltimore, Washington area at that time. And as we kinda pull up in there, I'm like, what the heck is going on here? And this this is an area of Fort Mead that's very active, but there's also parts that aren't and that's where all the kids kind of party, you know, have all the the the do the drugs have all the stuff like that. And an area that my brother frequented quite a bit. And then I remember as we're walking up, my brother just falls on the ground and just starts crumbling and just rocking back and forth, just weeping. And I'm like, what is going on? And that's when I see somebody laying in the grass. And the keep it appropriate for the video. You know, what had happened is my brother, who was a a drug dealer in the area, ⁓ another one It kind of came in on the territory, threatened our family. We don't say stuff like that. And what turned out to be a beating turned into something far worse. And my my brother ended up killing that guy. ⁓ and I remembered that point and everybody says, Well, why it's the question of why didn't you think differently? At that point who you are, up into that life, comes at that moment of of inflection where you have to make that hard call. And that point that's why the backstory is right. Because you coming from a really traditional Sicilian family, where family is everything. And I didn't have Christ and I didn't have strong faith then. So when you don't have faith and you don't have Christ or any faith, what do you lean on? You lean on ⁓ philosophies you've read. Yeah. You lean on the family that's input their values into you. ⁓ maybe it's people that you've had along the way that have invested in you, but it's some culmination of this patchwork. Mike: important. Joe: That you put together to make these decisions when the decisions are real. At that point the decision was real. And I remember seeing my brother, and I remember this thought going, This is where I have to protect him again. Eventually everything would come out, the shorts, you know, a very long story in a condensed version. You know, you've heard the long version ⁓ of of what happened in that period between making that decision to stand by my brother and stand by my family. And you know and that's hard because it falls into two different people, right? There are people who have a real strong family background and say, Wow, what would I do if it happened with my family? Right. And then there's other people who go, Wow, why would you even sacrifice for your family? And so I never understand when I cast this story out where it's gonna fall on somebody where they have a strong family and feel those bonds or some people like, Really? You did that for your brother? And ⁓ but being Sicilian, there was never a doubt, right? I always tell everybody, if it happened now, I would be easy. I'd go it. So my brother said, fantastic, I love you. Let's go. We're gonna walk down. I'm gonna get you a great attorney, and then we're gonna turn yourself in. But that's the Joe now. It isn't the Joe that was then, you know, almost 40 years ago. And I remember living in that that period of just waiting for it to happen. Because I knew when I made that decision to stand by my brother, it wasn't a question of of if I'd pay the price for that decision. It was a question of when I would pay it. And what it would look like. But I already knew at that decision, I made the decision to stand by my brother. I would be sacrificing everything at that point. I knew that. It's just the way it is, right? With Mike. Eventually what it would happen. I remember the conversation clear as day. ⁓ I was an officer at Fort Carson. My commanding officer came up to me and said, Mick, gotta have a conversation with you. And I said, Sir, you probably wanna read me my rights first. He's like, Mick, I said, Sir, I think you really need to read me my rights first. And then we completely came clean. And at that point just started moving really fast. At that point, ⁓ the police had arrested my brother. things were kinda g picking up pace. Now you're in that that law enforcement part of the phase where now it's out in the open. Right. Right. And my brother's crime is no longer in the darkness, it's now in the light and it's happening. Right. And I I remember I'm I'm talking, I'm coming in and I'm making the decision to turn myself in because what did I really do? I I lied on sworn statements. I I was get charged with eventually accessory after the fact, right? My involvement. I knew it happened. I lied in sworn statements. I made false depositions about knowing about it. And that eventually is what would be the crime. However, the journey was a little different to get to that crime. And so I remember when I first came in, I'm turning myself in and I'm walking in, I'm on I'm in the plane, I'm going through and you're kind of coming in, you know me, I'm I'm s this is how naive I was. So I'm coming in and I remember coming in the BWI. And I'm looking through the plane windows and all these police cars that like surrounded the aircraft. And you gotta remember, in my mind, I am turning myself in for line of sworn statements. I've already known what it's gonna be. So it doesn't seem like this big surprise. I'm looking out the window going, ⁓ my gosh, who is on this plane? Right. I'm kind of looking around, trying to figure it out. And then I remember when ⁓ I got they're letting people off the plane, the guys they're catching people who had this containment area so you can't get out. And I recognize ⁓ the officers in the front, right? And they ⁓ they go, Are you Lieutenant Mickley Eunice? And I go, Yes. And you go and they go, You're under arrest. I'm like, Well, duh, that's kinda what I'm turning myself in for. And then they they read this these litany of charges, and I'm my mouth about dropped. And because you know, inside you know what you've done. And But they hear these these major crimes coming out, doing drug dealers and and authorizing contracted hits and all this more serious stuff. And I'm thinking, all I did is turned my brother in. And it's interesting at that moment you've processed through the lens of of where you are, right? And I remember fear. Right. Absolute fear. You know, thinking, what am I gonna do now? This is this is serious. Mike: Why about it? Joe: And your mind just kind of goes through this process of trying to handle something new that's at this magnitude. But God is in control. Even though I wasn't walking faithfully with the Lord at all, the Lord is always walking faithfully with you. You know, He is completely sovereign at all the time. And even though His name barely entered my mind at this time, my name was well known in His. Yeah. And you don't see this, but He's walking you on the path, He's prepared for you. But when you're an unbeliever, you don't see that because you don't feel fathom your faith as a path. And you don't see a gen an over a larger purpose in this. So as we were doing this, I remember coming off, and you know how it was that this it's it's since they now think I'm this major, major criminal. I remember going out and there's like these the old K cars they used to have back then. That's how old I am. We had K cars, right? And there's about three or four K cars. They all look the same. And so they put me in and they all went in these different directions, right? And I'm going, because they were afraid my guys were gonna break me out. I'm thinking, I don't have any guys. It's just me, right? But you know, it's my guys. And I remember as it kind of we went to the police station, I'm sitting here just like this, and there's this big plexiglass wall in front of me. And I'm sitting here and reporters are all in the window. And I'm just like this. Just trying to smile and think I'm thinking I just gotta smile, right? I know else to do. And it's it was so surreal to go from just saying, yes, I did this all of a sudden you know, have reporters in your face and everything like this. Well eventually God's plan was I would I would have these major charges. The the judge would give me bail and my father in law at that time would help me post it and I would get out. Never happened before. But that's God's first work, right? At that time I would go back to Fort Carson. ⁓ and when you're in the military, you when you're going through this kind of action you're removed, security clearances pulled away. you're removed from the front line, you're put in an administrative position. ⁓ which really ended up being a tremendous blessing. 'Cause it gave me time not only to serve my country in a different capacity, but also work through my defence, work with my attorneys. More importantly, give it an opportunity for the higher level of my command in the military to get to know me as a person and not just as a a case number situation. Right. And you think about God's hand in that moment of of having interactions with senior officers of Fort Carson that would down the line become major decisions that would would change the outcome of this for me in a lot of different ways. Eventually things would go through, ⁓ the state would realize the error of the the charges, it would be passed over to federal, ⁓ the federal courts because it happened on Fort Mead. And then the the true charges would eventually happen. All the rest of stuff was dropped. It was interesting though in that phase, right? When you're going through all this media, all this exposure, that when you get on the other side and the truth lie comes out, they don't post the stuff that You weren't guilty of this, they just keep going on what you were guilty of. Now I learned a lot about that. However, eventually what happened, I get rid of sentencing. One of the first lessons I learned, the military taught me this was the power of loyalty. And I remember as I was going through that sentencing, ⁓ my entire military command showed up in support. And I and I remember the sense of relief as I was getting the charges and the sentencing read, looking out and seeing the support. And that would not be lost on me. That the one of the biggest lessons I learned, I still learn as a leader today. And I've been called sometimes the leader of second chances. And and that loyalty was shown for me in that court when the military stood beside me. And it would be one of the major influences on the leadership style I would develop as I became more mature in my leadership journey. At that point in time, sentence was read. I think at that point I always mix up numbers. I think it's about sixty-three months. So a little over five years. And I got what they call voluntary surrender, which means you kind of turn yourself in. Right. Right. Get some time, get to do this. And then I remember it's kind of surreal. It's like checking into a hotel with a real extended stay, right? And so I remember showing up to the prison and I I have basically three things with me, right? I I had my dad, I had my my f wife at that time, and then I had my Catholic Bible. Right, and so I'm reporting into FCI Ferriton. Even though I had zero points and a minimum security, my brother's crime was was obviously homicide. So you get when you're an accessory, you get the severity rating of the highest principal in the crime. And since my brother had a greatest severity rating, I couldn't go to a camp. And also to get close to home, I had to kind of waive and ask to get put into a prison that was much higher than I should have been. So I got put in FCI Ferriton, New Jersey. Which was ⁓ a high levels, ⁓ medium high FCI, which was I didn't know now was gonna be a decision because it was much spicier than some of the other ones I could have went to. So I show up, you come in here and it looks like this. Hi, my name's Joe. Hi, Joe, we're expecting you. So it looks pretty kind of so you just walk this way, say goodbye, so you give kisses, you walk through the door. And I'm thinking as I'm going through this surreal experience, that this is like checking into a hotel. But a lot different 'cause most hotels don't have fence and roving patrols and guns and stuff like that. And barbed wire and things like that. You know, you've you've you've been the other side, you know, as as a correctional officer. So you understand exactly what's like. The only difference is you got to leave that day. I exactly that's a huge difference by the way. And so we kinda come in and I don't realize that this is the point where God is gonna start working. And yet we always say, and when I always think when David Penn Mike: D Joe: Psalm twenty three, right? And it starts right off in the beginning. Yea, though I walk through the valley of shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for you are with me, and your rod and your staff, they comfort me. And I have to tell you, one of the things that I didn't realize is God didn't say, I'm pulling you out of that valley. Or I'm going to lessen the darkness in the valley. He doesn't. He has you go through the valley. But what is it? He's with you. Don't fear the evil. And then my rod and my staff are with you. Rod the symbol of God's strength, the staff, the symbol of God's guidance, right? Well, I didn't see that, but this was the beginning as I entered this valley of the shadow of death moment. And this was about to start my valley moment. But this is where God was with me. But I didn't know God was with me at this point. So I walk in and ⁓ and they immediately put me in in the hole because they don't know what to do with me. I mean with you know, saving some details, just know what to do with me. So I remember sitting in the hole, going, Wow, this is this is gonna stink, right? I mean this st do this twenty-four-seven, well twenty-three-seven lockdown, right? And ⁓ this is for six years, this is different, right? And but I'm processing this through a military mind, right? Thinking about this right until now, the only thing I really have is family, but the military is my big thing, being a cadet, being an officer. So you're thinking I'm equipped to handle this, military equipped. You know the discipline, that thinking, that strategy, right? And I remember eventually I I get let out. Mike: It's gonna be Joe: And ⁓ so I'm sitting here in in C unit, ⁓ which is where you go in that place when you the the more severe, because I had that greatest of various, so I give it in the C unit. And I'm sitting here like this, and this guy just keeps walking by me, and I'm like, You gotta be kidding me. I haven't even been here. You know, a few minutes, and I'm already gonna have to sit there and handle it. And this guy walks in and he goes like this, you Joe. and I stand up and I go. You walk in the cell and find out. And then he goes, My name's Chuck. I rob my own banks. It was just the funniest interaction. And I remember thinking how surreal this was. We would he would eventually become my best friend, as you call him prison, a road dog, right? He was my road dog. And we would do time together. And it was just a blessing to get to know him. And he was just a phenomenal person. But that's a whole start. That was the a bright spot and a dark journey of what prison does. Mike: Hi. It was and it was Joe: And then what happens is I would go in and it would quickly is, you know, prison life, right? Right. Prison life's different. It's ⁓ the for guys who haven't been in prison, but say soldiers who have served been downrange, it's kind of like combat, right? Where you it's it's nothing happens for 95 minutes, but that constant pressure waiting for it to pop off is and when that five percent happens, it is serious, it's aggressive, it's violent, and it's sometimes deadly. And that's what it's like. And it's not the five percent. It's the ninety-five percent of waiting for that to happen, every interaction, always that tension, you can cut it through a knife. So you kind of walk through it, and I remember thinking to myself, I would eventually get assigned to Unicor, which is the federal prison system for for their factory, which is huge, because this is God's plan all along. But in that time we're going through appeals, everything is happening, and then there's this guy who sits right across from me. His name is Raymond. And he sees me because I'm this time I'm a good Catholic, right? Yeah. And I'm doing my novenas and my rosaries and and I've always been a seeker. And I I don't know if I call myself a I was searching for Christ, but I was seeking. There's a pause here for a moment because I think God God calls you and He will send people in your path if you're not saved. And I always say there's plan A, plan B, and plan C. I always say plan A is plan acceptable. That's hey Mike, why don't you come to me, Jesus? Come to me to church. You say, Thank you, Lord, take me. That's the say that's the great way, right? Plan B is plan bad. That's where God kind of amps it up a little bit and brings a little bit of static and noise into your life to kind of humble you a little bit, to kind of hear his his soft whisper. Then there's plan C. That's plan catastrophic. That's when God really rocks your world, because you haven't been listening to A and B. And now he's really getting your attention. This is the road of Damascus and the belly of the whale. Yeah. The big fish. Right. And I had looked back at this moment and I think in all the countless times that people had reached out to me and offered me Christ, talking about Christ, military Christ. Christians were all throughout my entire life. But I was dead in sin and I didn't hear the message. Yeah. But I remember this is where the Lord was faithful to his calling. And I was even though I wasn't faithful to the calling. The Lord will always see his plans come out for you even when you resist. Well, I didn't want to go to Nineveh. Right. So the Lord was going plan B, and then I still didn't get plan B. So all of a sudden I found myself in the belly of a fish, which was called FCI Ferritin, right? So and it really was the belly of the fish, right? ⁓ so Ray would sit across from me and he would watch me. And Ray was ⁓ and his nickname in the Christian World was the Jack Hammer. Right. Right. He there was nothing subtle about his witnessing. And it was, do you know that you're going to hell? Right. And I'm like, wow, that no, I know Jesus, right? I've I I go to Catholics, I've done the Mass. I know no, you don't know who Jesus is. You just and he would just beat me relentlessly and relentlessly. And he would talk about all the things and I don't want to offend any Catholics, I have some great Catholic friends who are evangelical Catholics, right? Who are love the Lord with all their heart, mind, soul, and strength, and I'm gonna spend eternity with them. Right. Right. I wasn't one of those Catholics. Right. Okay. So we're kinda going through it. And if you've ever I d I don't know in the place that you were in, did you guys have a a prison factory in there? No. Mike: Okay. No, they didn't. It it was a more education program. Joe: Ours ours was kind of just well, I guess it was education, it's just a question of what you're learning, right? Right. It's kind of but it was nice. And eventually I remember through all of this there was this moment in December of of ⁓ ninety one where it just It just it just broke. It wa it was it. And and it was one of these moments where I had just lost my appeals, where ⁓ my first wife had decided to file for divorce. Mm. She stayed with me until I lost the appeals. And I remember you get to this point where it it you you're really just holding on 'cause that point it it's like ⁓ you don't have that that faith. So what you do when you don't have faith is you cling to anything that comes near you. They had this vision I was just getting washed downstream. ⁓ and I was just clinging on to anything that I could hold on to as I was just being blown downstream, absolutely out of control. Fear was setting in. ⁓ I know what to do with it between you and I. I was trying hard on the outside to stay disciplined, you know, handle it as the military had always taught me, you know, step in that ambiguity. But this was at a whole different level. And I remember Ray's words came to me and out of nowhere I started a genuine journey. Of trying to find out who the God of the universe was. And I remember this prayer of like of of I don't know who you are, but I want to get to know you. And I don't care what form it is, I just want to know you in truth. And I remember it's kind of that C.S. Lewis moment where you're you're so low that there's nobody more to look down on. You look up and you find that benevolent, loving God. That was me. And I remember I don't have a date where ⁓ and that date that's like January fifth, I bet. But there was a struggle of in January of ninety two where I was wrestling with faith. I was reading the Tao, I'd even done through Wiccan, I'd gone through a lot of stuff. I really wanted to make a journey to find God, whoever he or she or it was, and then find a way to step into it genuinely. And then I remember one day it was this moment where I was just thinking through all these different religions. And I remember Conversation clear as day in January of ninety two. And I went, Every religion I read about is me, me, me, I, I, I. I have to do this. I have to say these prayers. I have to do these things. And I remember sitting there in my cell, and there's this one other religion that says this you can't do anything. You are lost in sin from the moment you were made. I remember that reading this. And you were so hopeless. I had to come down and die on a cross to save you. And then you still are gonna struggle so bad. I had to send my spirit down to keep you strong. And I thought, huh. Huh. Everything is me, me, me, I, I, I, and there's this one religion out there called Christianity that's him, him, him. I do it for you, I strengthen. There's nothing I have to give, but I'll do it all for you. And I heard the first time the message of grace and love. And I remember in a cell in FCI Ferriton in January of 92, getting on my knees and surrendering my life to Christ. And you would think that is where it got good. No. You know as well as I do, that's when it started getting tough. Mike: It's where the spiritual warfare just really starts to come in. Joe: Well think about it. You know, when you're you're in a dark room and you just switch on one little bulb, the darkness notices you don't belong there anymore. And I became a little small light and when I usually was a very dark room and the darkness knew I wasn't supposed to be there anymore and that's when they turned and go, and so things look pretty good. I fell into fellowship there, met a lot of good Christian brothers and I didn't realize how tight the brotherhood behind the fence is. Yep. And you know that it's tight. And and all of a sudden I would meet this brotherhood. You know what I had that moment? I had hope. And I remember that overwhelming joy that you get when the God of the universe comes in and and redeems you. I never felt anything like that in my life, by the way, Michael. Nothing. I mean when when I became a Christian and gave my life and I remember literally the next day the world looked different. And and for people who've come to salvation, I I didn't grow up in a a Christian home. Right. Right. ⁓ I grew up in a Catholic home, but you know, the faith wasn't wasn't genuine. So I didn't we went to church, but we didn't have a relationship with Jesus Christ. Right. And so for people who have grown up in the faith, they're like they can't see it any differently. But when you've been walking in darkness and lost in sin and you're an adult and all of a sudden you make that that step of faith and the Holy Spirit comes in you and you're redeemed, it's jarring because it's literally being pulled out of this darkness. All of a sudden the door opens and you see the world clearly for the first time. Well I did that in prison. ⁓ And in that day afterwards it became different. Well, a lot of times in prison, when you become a Christian, people think, but they're gonna test you, right? 'Cause that's it's the door mat theory, right? Yep. You know how that is, right? It's in prison, it's very predatorial. Mike: Everybody finds Jesus and Joe: Yes. Mike: Realize unless you didn't I did not realize it you can't compare it to anything you know because it's its own world. It's got its own rules, it's got its own value system, it's got its own payment system, it's got everything is different than what we as civilians can even fathom. And so you go in there, it's Joe: remember ⁓ prison sidebar, right? Because you and I both know it from different perspectives. You with the keys, me without them, right? Right. The level of violence and aggression in prison is is hard to explain. And the movies some movies do it a lot of justice. I'll tell you it they really do. I and I know you have, I have I've seen a lot of bad things in prison. A lot of bad things. that level of aggression ⁓ it's it happens like that. Just wrong word, wrong saying, disrespect. Somebody reads it wrong even when you meant it right and it escalates the violence within seconds or minutes, or when you least expect it circles back around, right? it's hard to explain that to somebody who hasn't been there. And it's it's not just telling the stories, what it's what it's like to be in that. Yeah. Right? Surrounded by it. Day in, day out, day in, day out. Yep. So we were so we came through and I r and this is my my sidebar conversation. So things are going well. But this is my first introduction of real spiritual warfare. Up until now, it's been a real nice path. ⁓ I've been spent a lot of good time in fellowship, believe it or not, even though a lot of stuff was really popping off in prison, ⁓ most of it had stayed clear of me. And a lot of it is I also d never really walked in the past and did the things that get you in trouble in prison. I was always respectful to people, always genuine with people, stayed out of the gambling, the other stuff that was going in. Just try and do my time and get back to my family. Yeah. Right. But sometimes like you o you know, you can still do that, but trouble still has a way of finding you in prison. ⁓ yeah. And that's about to happen for me. So I I taught calligraphy. And people are like, huh, when they hear that. So yeah, back in the day, if we had all these computers, we had pens and we wrote stuff, right? And then Stephen Jobs kinda killed that profession with the the Mac. But the reality is I I taught calligraphy. I'd spent a lot of time in college and my fine arts ⁓ doing calligraphy and and I I was quite good at it. So I wanted to teach guys how to do calligraphy so they could write poetry and send back real beautiful stuff to their wives and daughters. They ⁓ they allowed me to do it. And eventually we'd have this really strong group of guys who spent time just writing beautiful poetry and letters they could sent back to their wives and their and their daughters. And a lot of these guys were doing a lot of time like they they weren't coming out anytime soon. Right. I mean thirty, forty years was their release dates. Mike: Especially in the the penetration you were in, that was a high so a lot of those guys were doing Joe: Lot of time. A lot of time. A lot of time. So well you know what happens. In order for me to do that, I had Indian Inc. Mm. Right. And people who are watching this don't know what that happened. You know what I when I when I think about this Anyway, God had a reason for it, right? He did. So you know what happened is I had Indian Inc. and poor finds out and every week I would get shaken down by one of the gangs for a certain percentage of my Indian ink that they take back to their tattooing business. Yeah. Right. Mike: And people you gotta understand tattooing, that's a big business in at the prison. Huge. That's why I'm so surprised he had it because they just that's just ⁓ this is on that blows my mind a little bit. Joe: Well I and you see it from that that correctional offer perspective. I just thought I needed Indian Inc. to do the calligraphy and they gave it to me. But I was I wasn't thinking like an officer, right? Right. I thinking like a guy was trying to get calligraphy and stuff. So anyway, it's coming in they shake me down. And then eventually the officer who's in charge of activities came to me. Now, backdrop. I had led this officer to Christ. ⁓ it helped him also get his healing in his marriage. So this is a dear brother to me. Right. We were on the opposite side, but this is a dear brother to me. Right. Right. So he comes in and he ⁓ eventually they measure it and weigh it. He eventually weighs it he measures it and he's like, Mick, you're missing a lot of Indian ink. Well, this is that moment. These are these moments in a Christian walk where ⁓ yeah. You you're gonna There are times in the Christian walk where you you you have to stay faithful to who you are and the costs for staying faithful to the Lord are gonna be high. Yeah. And and this is one of those moments. ⁓ This is a Christian brother. I'm about to speak truth to him because he's a Christian brother. But I understood in that moment when I spoke that truth the consequences that'd be for me. And I didn't understand the full consequences. I just figured there's gonna be some consequences. As you know have heard the story before, the consequences are about to get real serious real fast. So he asked me, and I say, hey, ⁓ one, I'm a Christian. Two, this is an officer I led to Christ. Right. So there's no chance to be deceptive here because one, I I couldn't, and two, as a new believer himself, you can understand what the kind of ⁓ yeah. Yeah. So I spoke truth, told me exactly what's happening. Hey, these people come in all the time. They shake me down for my ink. And he said, Why didn't you tell me? I'm like, but get to go home and you never ask. Right. Right? Mike: Never asked. ⁓ Joe: I know people say, Joe, you're kind of playing in the middle here, but my Christian brother never asked. And so I didn't go on my way to tell him, but as soon as my Christian brother came and asked, I told him the truth. Right. Well, you know what happened after that. They shook down the guys. Some guys went to SAG, got in the hole. ⁓ these people were extremely dissatisfied with this. So they took a contract out on me. And ⁓ it got real serious real fast. ⁓ and I remember I'm sitting in the T V room, you know, the military stuff I'm always in the back. Right. And it's funny, ⁓ it's funny in prison how everybody knows you're the one who's gonna get hit that day, but you don't. Right? It's just funny how that knows that. ⁓ and even the people your circle friends, they know who they are, so they make sure they don't know either. But you know when it happens because I remember two guys walk in. And then all of a sudden everybody stands up but me. And I remember speaking out loud, I guess I'm the one. ⁓ I remember they came in and without getting into details and all I had was, you know, they had shanks. All I had was an aluminum chair. And and the Lord saw me through that moment. And ⁓ you know, eventually I'd be able to get out of that. It's amazing what you can do with an aluminum chair. ⁓ Mike: Mm. Joe: And by the I was not aluminum chair fighting trained, so that was a God moment, right? And and I laugh about it. It wasn't really funny at the moment. But in that moment you don't have time to think about, but the Lord saw me through, right? Yeah. And I remember going out, and then they would we they would try a couple more times. ⁓ one time in the shower, then another time in the shower also, and that would get pretty serious pretty quickly. And and the Lord saw me through that. ⁓ and then I remember sitting here in this cell. And my friends, these are my friends, my brothers, saying these words. And these are just moments. And these are decisions, these are decisions every Christian has to make. This is when you're in that stub period of going, Do I take it control and do it on my power? Because I gotta tell you, as much as I like to say I was in control, that fear had really set in. I mean it was real. I knew that not only had people out there that had the contract, these people were serious about fulfilling it. ⁓ yeah. And I had no doubts in my mind about that. And people were giving me advice saying, Look at you gotta do it first. You gotta take care of this problem before they take care of you. That's Satan, right? There's that dark speak. And I think for your viewers and for you and I, that was pretty clear there, but it comes in a lot of different ways. Where that that kind of dark whisper comes in your ears, where it really it's about you don't need don't trust God. Are you sure God can see you through this? But you know, you got the skills, you got the training. You can take care of this. You don't need God because God gave you these skills and Satan just twists the truth, right? Did he surely say you would die? ⁓ my gosh. Mike: And and no one would fault you for it too. You know, so he knows how to do it. That's why I love what you're saying here because you that's why you gotta know where your walk is and why be in that tune with God because we can justify anything. Joe: ⁓ anything. Right? It happened with Eve. Mm-hmm. When Satan came to say, did he say you shall surely die? Right? Yeah, how he twists that truth. But it's believable. If you don't stay rooted and grounded in spiritual truth, his his dark truth can make sense in a logical mind. Right. And I remember sitting there and in the scripture you've heard me quote quite a bit. Was one that I was at that time you have to remember what I was reading. I was going through lot of Job. And reading a lot of other stuff, looking to the scriptures, staying with the Lord. And there's a lot of scriptures about men and women of faith going through trials. And and I remember thinking to myself, there's one scripture that I clung to and it was a real hard scripture. It was Job thirteen, fifteen, right? Though he slay me, yet will I trust him. And I remember having to sit with that scripture in my cell, with the real truth that maybe the Lord won't see me through us, and I I will be martyred And being thankful, being thankful that the Lord saved me for this short period of time that would have my walk as a Christian. Right? And I remember almost a release of peace when I accepted my fate and surrendered control to him. And you know the rest of the story. And I remember the next day, I made that decision. I'm in my cell. And I'm reading my Bible story I'm reading my Bible as I always do at lunch, and a voice came to me, and I knew it's to heart. I didn't hear an audible voice, but it's the clearest I can honestly tell you in my decades of walking with Christ that I could hear his voice. And all it said was, Go to the wreckyard and worship me. And I and I and I know it wasn't a voice, but in my heart it sounded s it ⁓ right. Michael have never heard the Lord speak as clearly to me in my entire life as a Christian, but that moment. And I remember getting up Getting it and saying, Okay, Lord, and walking out. And and as I walked out to Rec Yard, the same officer who I'd led to Christ, the same officer who I had spoke truth to, ⁓ it he was n he was ser he was now doing he's on the the grounds, it's not an activity, I can't know what it's called, but you'd know, but it he was on that one. He goes, Mick, I gotta take you to SEG. And I'm like, Man, what'd I do this time? Right? I mean I Gonna seg again. And for your listeners, by the way, a little bit of a sidebar, some prison stuff here, right? It's because I spent a lot of time in segregation, the whole 'cause I was bad, but in prison, ⁓ in the feds at least, I know there's gonna be a riot or something that comes in. The feds by policy will take anybody who's been in a leadership role, take ⁓ off right the grounds and then put them in segregation so there's no leaders, you know, and So I was an officer, so I always got picked up 'cause we had a little bit of a feisty prison, right? So there always something was popping off, right? And so eventually I'd always get picked up and you get in the hole, you spend ninety days or or four months in there, and then you get released and you're in tent city in the middle of the stuff where you get back into a room again. And so I was used to it, as was anybody else who was in a leadership role, of getting picked up all the time and put in sex. I th that's what it was. And he said, No. He said they ⁓ They planted it. It was an incendiary device. He says, No, your room blew up. They had planted an incendiary device in my room. Had I been in there, I I would have probably either been horribly scarred or died of really bad death of burning. And that was the faith of the Lord. I mean, think of that. I mean, I would have never known the Lord spoke to me and walked me up. But it was after that decision that night before, where I made a decision to step in faith, to be able to trust my God. Even though it was the darkest point in my Christian walk. I would tell you at that point, having gone through as much as I've gone through my life, that was probably the the darkest part of my Christian walk. And knowing that clinging to my faith and being true to my God would probably end up costing me my life by the end of that week. But also I remember the breakthrough moment when I embraced that scripture and decided to give it to God, understanding that I could not walk through this darkness. I was ill-equipped. And even though Satan was twisting my mind with this logic that made sense, when I when I finally gave it to God and revealed the truth, I was ill-equipped to handle it. Think about this. Lord, you are the sovereign God of the universe, creator of all things. I got this. Yep. Right? And think how many times as Christians we've actually said that we do that a lot. All the time, right? Creator of all Mike: The question. Joe: The person who's in a in the spoken word created everything, but I have this Lord. Even though you're the most powerful creator of in of all time, I got this one. ⁓ Right. Faith becomes real when the cost of your faith becomes real. Yeah. Right? Yes. And I'm I mean, there are people out there who are going through cancer, mm-hmm, going through addiction, maybe some relationship issues, abuse or divorce, who are thinking about losing their jobs, can't understand the debt they're in. ⁓ trauma cr trauma, pain and a c got hit by somebody hit them and now they're dealing with pain that they can't I mean just it the list goes on and on. It does. For me that moment was understanding that the urge to try to control it, when that fear has set in, when the cost of faith becomes so seriously a high cost, right? I mean, if I the penalty for the the for me, the cost would have been death. Mike: Rumble. Joe: No doubt my mind. Right? There there are guys out there trying to do bad things to me. And it's amazing at that moment where it's Lord, I trust you in every area, but Lord, you got this, but I will. Whatever it is, right? Your money, your health, just name it, right? Speak it, right? And the reason you have to be honest with yourself is that's where the cost of standing firm of faith gets real serious real fast, right? But that is for people who are listening to that struggle point. That is where God does his best work. That is where God, when you let go and surrender and you let the God of the universe step into that space, you just unleashed the most powerful tool in your arsenal, which is the big guy that's standing behind you, right? Satan isn't frightened by you. He's frightened by the guy who's standing behind you. Yeah. Right? And I think the big the biggest lesson for me at that moment. And this it's such a powerful moment, my my Christian walk. When I lived Job 13, 15, though he slay me, yet will I trust him. When I stepped into it and surrendered it to him when the cost was going to be my life. At that point I remember my faith catapulted. And you have to know what happened at that point. Then I would go in and say, and this is God's plan. And this is the vision of when you this moment. in a cell with friends around me saying, You can take care of it. You know, that would have gotten me that would have gotten me a body charge and I would have spent the rest of my life in prison. Right? Right. And that's what Satan wanted. Mm-hmm. Cause Satan knows down the road what you're gonna do. What I'm gonna do. ⁓ yeah. And he doesn't want that to happen 'cause he doesn't want lives to be changed. He wants lives ruined. Right. Right? So anything he can do to stop people of God from casting light, he tries to sit there and get them to voluntarily stay in spaces of darkness. And not be able to embrace fully what God has given them. Right. He doesn't want you to pick up the tools that God's given you. He wants to stay in the garbage heap that you left and he's trying to find a way to get you back in it. So I sat there, I remember I went to SEG. ⁓ you know what usually happens, they ship you off and ship you out. And I kept just staying there and staying there. Like, okay, God, right? What's happening? ⁓ great thing about being in segregation so much, you have ample opportunity to read the Bible. Everybody ever asked me, said, Hey, how did you read the Bible so many times front to back? I ⁓ easy, the hole. They're like, What's the hole? You don't want it it's not the ideal Bible reading plan, but it's incredibly effective. Go into a place where you're locked down twenty three seven for months in a cell the size of this room, right? Mm-hmm with a bank vault door and you'd be surprised how often you have time to be able to read the Bible front to back all the time. Mike: Imagine if you didn't, you you would almost go crazy. So that you know, being able to pour into God and and then to disc at least having the Bible there to read and to to put focus on because there's there's nothing to preoccupy your time. And the enemy that's when the the enemy can really get your mind. Yes. Is when you're isolated like that and really get you so the best thing you you know, doing was was that. Joe: ⁓ my god. Feet feed on the word. Right. 'Cause you're right in that period when you're still, if you're not feeding yourself with the word, Satan's gonna step into it and do his little dark whispers. Yeah and you know how that works. He'll start tying your your your mind to knots. So eventually the warden comes to me and he says, Hey Mick, I'm gonna release you back in the GP and I'm like, Really? He was he w I remember his words. He's like this he goes, Everybody's gone. Tainers came in, state charges picked up, you know, transferred over. And everybody who would have been a threat to me and that gang was gone. And I remember thinking to myself, because you know, they don't just release you there. You gotta have the guards come and do the paperwork and they come in and release you from SEG and put you back in, right? I remember thinking, getting on my knees and thanking the Lord because I was gonna make the biggest mistake by trying to handle it myself. But instead I stepped into faith at a high perceived cost. But this is what I had to say. My God always had me. Yeah. I just didn't have the confidence that my God always had me. Amen. Yeah. Does that make sense? And walk Mike: That many times. Joe: And this is and it's so and at this level of our walk, having you and I walk with Christ now for decades, I still get to those times where I look over over thirty years of my walk with my my Lord going through some real hard stuff. He's seen me through some stuff, Mike, that's just incredible like you, right? Well I have those moments and go, and instead of focusing on the fact that he's seen me through countless dark times and his hit rate is a hundred percent of success. A hundred percent, right? Not ninety-nine, a hundred percent. You're right. And you have these moments where you go. I wonder if dot dot dot and I and I have to pause and go The dot dot dot happen when you've been so faithful for so long, every single time. And that's even now, as a seasoned Christian warrior that you and I are, it still enters my mind. That's this flesh we're encased in, right? ⁓ and so what happens is he released me, and then what happened? ⁓ my gosh, after that, I win my appeals, right? And then I would come back, and you know, we could tell countless stories about what it's like going through the repeals train. I remember telling everybody, you know, it's a separate podcast for. you know, time in Lewisburg Penitentiary or Baltimore City Jail, those were ⁓ those were particularly dark spaces that themselves could be stories of how God worked right setting up churches in those areas and prayer teams and and making sure that everywhere I went in prison, ⁓ when when I did I left a group of men everywhere I went and started a prayer group or a small like house, like a home church. So everywhere I went, I left the Lord there everywhere I went. Very intentional. seeking out Christians, organizing Christians, making sure that when I left there was a person who had fellowships that when I left the Lord still had his remnant. And you and I both know. ⁓ if you can't if you just turn on one small light in a dark room, it illuminates everything, right? But it's really hard to notice a small dot of blackness in an all lit room. Right. And that's the power of the light. And what happens is also for people who are searching, once you turn that light on in that dark room, they know where to walk to. Yeah. Instead of before just going like this in the darkness, trying to find hope, trying to find love, trying to find some relief. they had for you. So I left that. Anyway, eventually we get out. I win the appeals. And then I remember when I first got released and now it was different. Now I walked out. And I had out of the three that I walked in, remember it was my dad. Right. My first wife. And then my ⁓ my Catholic Bible. And I walked out, I didn't have my wife anymore. ⁓ still had my dad, and now I had a King James Bible. And so the Lord Lord decided I was gonna keep one of those things and renew some two other things. And and ⁓ and by the way, just for the the sake of your listeners, I tried hard to step into that marriage at first, right? But God always has a plan, right? And and that's a whole separate part about how my first wife went to a separate path, eventually found Christ, became saved. I went my path and being and found say and of course found Christy which was amazing. But let me tell you how sometimes the path came from here is once it got released you go to a halfway house. And my always in Baltimore, Maryland, and it was in a really bad place. It's amazing they don't put halfway houses in good places, right? Right. So it was in a really bad place in the projects of ⁓ Baltimore. And I remember having to get in that bus and do job interviews all the time. ⁓ Mike: Yeah. Joe: I would think that sometimes between you and I, prison was actually safer to be in that area where the halfway house was. 'Cause at least in the ha in the prison didn't have guns and stuff like that, right? It the halfway house area was just a a a neighborhood full of violence and gangs was really bad. Well yeah Mike: I did work release. And so some of the guys yeah, I was I did work r release before I went to the prison. Yeah. And ⁓ a lot of the guys they had that adjustment period because how they reacted in prison now, they have to react differently out here on the street. And so y and in those environments and those neighborhoods, you got people who you know, they're testing now Joe: Very much so. Mike: that resolve you have to wanna stay out of prison. That's right. Because it so that adjustment period is so so critical, so hard. Joe: It is hard. And you can and you and I both know I only did I always tell you I only did forty months, right? My Lord needed forty days in the wilderness. I needed forty months. You I I need a little bit longer in my wilderness experience to find it. But you and I both know that Mike: Yeah. Joe: When you're in that period of transition, guys who've done twenty years, imagine what's like coming out after twenty years in that environment. You've seen it, I know. I've heard about I watched my brother when he came out after twenty years, right? And and watched him do that transition. It's a difficult period. When you don't have support, you don't have love wrapped around you or good systems. I can see why a lot of guys will intentionally violate just to get back in. Mike: Why recidivism rate is so high. Joe: Yep, I can understand that completely. So anyway, so I'm in here trying to find a job. You don't have to find a job. And finish out my and go to my my release date. I am Mike, I am literally getting in the bus, countless job interviews. And I remember it always goes so well. 'Cause I have a college degree. Right. I was honorably discharged from the military. They stood by me. You know, that's a God thing. And I and I when I tell you Mike: Amazing. Joe: The mil the so many lessons the military taught me. ⁓ I mean, literally so many lessons I've learned in life through being an army, you know, soldier. so many lessons. ⁓ but the loyalty that the military showed me. I've tried to repay that moving f you know, going forward by being being understanding and loyal and giving other people second chances when I had moments. And you know, that lesson, a little bit of a sidebar. When I look back and I was in positions, I eventually moved to positions of leadership as I became an executive, there were times when I would have to make decisions on people. And I remember people had to make decisions on me. Yeah. And I managed and I remember the lessons of grace, loyalty, and kindness when it came there. And I made different decisions. And I have to tell you, that influence watching the military stay loyal, watching my my command come in to support me, being honorably discharged. That lesson played out hundreds of times in the decades that followed when I had the ability to be able to make those decisions and I made right decisions. It eventually became a just kind of just like that. But I remember early in my my career the heavy influence of that loyalty from the military and me being a better version of myself. So anyway, you're going to these interviews And it's so discouraging. And I'm gonna tell this to the people who are going through this right now. Have faith that God is going to do his good work, even when the challenge is for you. And I remember going through talking and I had to have the point 'cause I'm on probation, right? And we call it supervised release in feds. And as soon as they did that, the interview shut down immediately. Just shut down. Yeah. I was on my thirty fourth interview. My thirty fourth. Yeah. And I remember as you keep going through 34th interview, walking in to interview for a dishwasher job, expecting that I would be turned down. And I remember it clear as day. Tony hit Maria's of Timonium in Baltimore, Maryland. And I sat in and I told the story. Well, he's Italian. He liked the fact. that I didn't turn my brother in and that loyalty. And I would and he hired me. And I have to tell you Mike: I was the dishwasher. Joe: Happiest washer in all of Baltimore, Maryland, right? The happiest dishwasher. And the takeaway is this ⁓ in life. Have faith that the Lord, if you're on the path he wants you to be on, have faith he will see that good work done. It probably will not happen when you think it's gonna happen, but it will happen when God wants it to happen. And I'll tell you why working in that pizza place. Is so critical. And this is when you look back where you see the dots as God connects them and they're perfect, right? We have to have faith that the dots that He's connecting moving forward are just as purposeful and just as faithful. And for those that are struggling and it's not happening, my my comfort for you is this: stay on the path, be faithful. Keep going. God's timing may not be your own, but God's timing is always perfect. And have faith that the God of the universe will reveal what he needs to reveal in the time that you need to see it. And I'll tell you why this path is so important. The 34th interview is what it took me to get to the point to interview for the dishwasher's jobs at Maria of Timonium. At that time, I I would eventually I started as a dishwasher and I was happy. And there was a change for me also, right? Going from being an officer to now becoming an inmate to now becoming a dishwasher. Right. And there was a a mindset fix for me. And I was a happy dishwasher. It wasn't what I lost. It was being happy where the Lord had placed me. Yeah. A dishwasher. And I remember eventually I work up and I become the manager of that place. There's a GM, but I worked a management position. And a person walk in who worked for Pizza Hut. And I remember he goes, I want you. And I said, why? He goes, you're killing me down the road, right? He goes, I said, but I gotta be honest with I'm not super right. He goes, I don't care what you're on, right? Or or what you're doing. I want you. I would eventually go to work for Pizza Hut, which is my first real break in a big name chain. That wasn't the reason why. I would go work in Pizza Hut, and there was this Pizza Hut manager there named Christy Wright, who had eventually become Christy Mikelayunus. And think about this. If I hadn't gone the path I would and I stayed in the military and I was a good officer. I graduated, you know, number one top cadet in that. So I mean I was I was my career was moving forward super well ⁓ in as a as an officer. And and so I was moving clearly. I would have been there, walked in, ordered a pizza at that Columbia Pizza Hut in Maryland, picked it up, saw this really, really hot person around ⁓ behind there and taking it smiled even got a little flirty maybe but I would take walked out of the pizza not knowing that that was the love of my life that I was walking away from. And that would be my soulmate. But the reality is this, God knew that. Yeah. And he knew that what would happen when I met her, married her, and the power we produce in a Christian family. But I couldn't see that, right? Right. It had to start with a 34th interview for a dishwasher in a pizza place so that down the road I would meet the love of my life who is working in a pizza place. Yeah. Right? And so I always tell everybody, if you're walking Have faith in the God of the universe that he knows the path. Trust the author because he's writing the next chapter. And I always say this, I have a style says chut trust the next chapter because you know the author. Yeah. And so what would happen there is always trust the author, right? Eventually we go and get pizza and I I do really well in Pizza Hut. And then I had to make a decision on a I wanted to go back and get my education, but I really wanted to be a pastor. Really wanted to be a pastor. So I went ahead and applied to Westminster Theological Seminar Seminary and I got accepted. But I couldn't afford to go. So I went to my grandfather saying he would he finance me. Now you gotta remember, cut scene again. This is my grandfather, right? Retired colonel, commissioned me, right? He actually gave my oath of office, devout Catholic. When I first was saved and I walked in, I walked in my King James Bible, my grandfather said this get that demon. House. So I want to just just sit back, right? So when I came to him asking him if he would finance my seminary training in the Protestant faith, you can imagine what the answer was. Yeah. Love you, Pa. I know you're with Jesus. Won't speak ill, but it wasn't one of the nicer moments, right? And ⁓ so that door closed. The door closed. But he said, Hey, ⁓ maybe something in Loyola. Well, Loyola's where I got my undergrad. So I went ahead and had two choices ago. One was a pastoral counseling program for Loyola, the other one was going to get my MBA. So I applied for the pastoral counseling program. God Moments coming up. So viewer, viewer heads up. So I applied and they said, sorry, ⁓ it was one of the more popular pastoral counseling programs. You're about four hundredth on the list. You're about two years behind. So I said, okay, right, trusting God completely that this is I'm going to MBA. I get a call the next day. Hey, we wanted to let you know you moved up the program, you start next semester. I still to this day don't know how it happened, what happened, but God opened that door to starting the next semester. Wow. Well my grandfather was more than happy to sit there and you know, gonna get me back in the Catholic faith, right? So he was more than happy to fund that. So God opened that door. This is not what's important. So what happens is is I go through, I get my pastoral counseling degree, and then I go and work Mike: four hundredth. Joe: for as a pastoral counselor and a therapist and a counselor for the Christian Counseling Center of Annapolis. There I meet a really great brother in faith, David O'Channero, who become my mentor as I go through. Fast forward a little bit, God's plans, always trusting that he's placing you where you need to be for the next place he wants you to be. Right. David Go work for ⁓ this company called Sunrise Assisted Living. It's a smaller ⁓ senior living senior living ⁓ company. Now, funny part about God is when I was going through my counseling training, you do all these site testing training. And I remember taking an assessment for careers, because everything we we trained on, we did it ourselves, so we understood it was like being that prospectus, I took it. I scored high in two fields. One was number one, military officer. I was like been there, done that. The second one, nursing home administrator. And I remember laughing and telling my professor these words, You won't catch me dead in that profession. God must have had the biggest chuckle in the world, right? So then eventually David goes to work for Sunrise Assisted Living. He calls me and says, Hey brother, you need to come work over here. They're a Christian based organization caring for seniors. And I said, ⁓ you know what? And I'm Okay. But is it hurt, right? Right. I was running out of of runway to be able to get the hours I need to get my licensing for for ⁓ my LPC and my licensed professional counselor in Maryland. So God would just open the door. I interview. The interview's the longest interview I've ever been to, right? And for obvious reasons. And there is a gentleman in the room, there's two. One is Paul Clausen, who's a brother, who is the founder of Sunrise. And another one, Tim Smick, who was the president at the time and who would become ⁓ a dear brother and a spiritual mentor to this day for me. And they opened that door for me to be able to do what? Work and senior living, right? I would start in their executive training program just to be an administrator. We call them executive directors in that industry. And that door would open. And I think people need to understand the story of this. It started with a dishwasher in a pizza place at a 34th interview of trusting God. From going where? To there, to the next place, to meet my wife. From there to make a schooling decision where doors opened. To do what? To run into David O'Connor, because I wouldn't be able to run that space if I wasn't a counselor. From there I would interview and meet Tim. And from there that door would open. And I would work for the next twenty-seven years as in senior living, the place I said I'd never be caught dead in. Right? Where God just laughed and chuckled in heaven. Right. I realized was spend I was gonna spend the next thirty years serving him in that industry, right? And from there I would go from being a dishwasher to being the COO and running large companies. And I I tell people this, you know, God makes folly of the wisdom of man. I was God's folly. And I would go up and and be in places I shouldn't have been, you know, in the C suite and leadership roles. because of God and because I need to be in those spaces to serve Him. And when I think about it, excuse me, those doors open for the sole purpose of being able to be a useful tool for God in those spaces that He allowed me to occupy. And so why do I say this? The journey for me is is of three things. One, it's resilience. You gotta stay strong. When you think about when Paul talks about and Paul's getting ready to be martyred for the cause. And now we're in 2 Timothy, right? And he's penned that letter. And we go to 2 Timothy chapter 4 and we get to verse 7. What does he say? I fought the good fight. What else? I finished the race. I kept the faith. Fight, finish, keep. Christianity's active, right? You're fighting every day with decisions that come into your life, things that occupy your mind, feelings you have in your heart, right? That that fight. What is it also? It's a race. Mm-hmm. There's a finish line. We know that finish line where it's at, right? This this is the race we run to get to the finish line of what's waiting for us in eternity. Well, guess what? There's competition. It's hard work to run a race, right? We're called to finish it. And then finally is keep. Keep the faith. And I think we seem to forget that that fight, that finish, and that keep. God didn't promise us, you know, that it would be smooth. What he did is say, You will fight, 'cause we're in enemy territory. And I and I realized that very, very quickly, that we are in enemy territory, that our true home is a place that doesn't exist here because it happens after death. And it's a place that God has given us on the other side of eternity. But on this side of eternity, we're called to be loyal soldiers for him. We fight. We finish because we're running the race and we stay faithful by keeping our faith. And when you when you have this thing in your mind of understanding that's a fight every day, a race that you're running, and that you have to keep your faith, it puts in perspective the struggles. Yeah. Because one, I have complete faith that God, sovereign lord of the universe, knows what's best for Joe McAulianis. And I have to trust that. You know, and you and I talk in our men's group in the last four years where the Lord has really worked out that last holdout I had, which is in that area of money, right? Yeah. That was my last holdout, last area of control. And the thing is as a Christian man, I knew it. I'd have long conversations with God. And I would say, Lord, I know it. Just give me some time. Please be patient. I really struggle with that last area of holdout for the God of of of my heart. And it's decades of walking with him. I still had a holdout, knowing he's delivered me from so many things, but still saying this is the one area I don't want to surrender to my Lord. I I can control this. I got this. I got this. I I got this. You know that story. When I surrendered that to the Lord, the peace I got in that area, that last holdout to my Lord. And I can say for the for those who have those holdout times. When I surrendered that last holdout and allowed the Lord to go in and occupy that last space of my heart and make it his, not mine, but his. I can tell you that after decades of walking with the Lord, these last four years have been the strongest. Where I have been in complete surrender to the Lord and surrender to all parts of my life. Does that mean I don't have battles? No. Does that mean there's aren't struggles? Absolutely there are. Does that mean the enemy doesn't occasionally throw arrows? ⁓ heck, they're flaming arrows, right? Right. They come in and they're hot and heavy and fast. What's changed is the way I step into those areas, the way that I get hit by the arrows, the way that I handle those struggles, the way that I sit there and when the darkness tries to encroach me, that that's all the same. Satan hasn't changed, right? Me walking in those spaces with my God confidently is what's changed. And the other part is transformation and growth. When you walk into your faith, there's a transformation that happens in that moment like that, right? But there's a process of sanctification that starts the moment you say, Lord, come in and take my life. And that process of sanctification is not complete until on the other side of eternity with perfection. So from the moment you say, Lord, I will and I will become yours, till the moment he calls you back home. There's a process of sanctification where you try to become more like Christ, less like you. And that's a struggle. Because that means surrendering parts of you. Now, I'd say it's easier when you're an older Christian, meaning older as and more mature in your walk. I think it's harder from new Christian to seasoned warrior in different ways. Right. 'Cause I think for you and I being seasoned Christian warriors, the last holdouts are the ones that are so deeply entrenched. And those are the ones you gotta dig deep to pull out, right? excuse me, and of the ones that have the highest costs. As a new Christian, everything's being surrendered, right? The list is so long, it's overwhelming. You know, things I did yesterday I don't want to do tomorrow. Friends I had, I don't want to, I shouldn't be, but I really like Jimmy, but Jimmy's kind of really a bad influence. How do I tell Jimmy I I love God now? And where does Jimmy fit in, right? ⁓ that kind of stuff. But when you're where you and I are, those last holdouts are really entrenched. And so you gotta come in and dig them out hard. And the Lord's got the tool for that. I tell everybody, stay true to the process of transformation. Understand that the God of the universe will finish his work in you. And you know, I I when I walked in, my favorite scripture, the one that's guided my life, is the one that I walked in and saw it hanging right here on your wall. And it it is, it's Proverbs 3, verses 5 through 6, right? Trust the Lord with all your heart, lean not on your own understanding, and all your ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct your path. That is my life scripture with God. And You know, if you stay true to that, right, he will direct your path. But you have to acknowledge him. You have to step in faith. And you and I know this, and and you're living through some of it right now. Life hits you. And it's not always the enemy. Sometimes life in itself is hard. Throwing intentionality with demon activity and darkness, it gets harder really quick. Right? But life is hard enough. There are people who say, Why did God do this to me? There's sometimes we live in these fragile bodies and they fail. Yep. They just fail. Because they're not meant to go into the next place, right? Right. God, Satan didn't do it to you. The body just fails. Yeah. Right? And but you walk in faith. And I will tell people this, have faith in this. Potter, the Master Potter crafted you to be perfect for what he meant you to do. If you wrestle with I'm not this, I was built for this, I can't handle this. What you're saying is really this. God didn't equip me to dot dot dot. You were known from the foundation of the earth. The master of the universe crafted you with divine hands to be made perfectly for the time he placed you in. And the tasks and the struggles you would have perfectly made, strengths, flaws, weaknesses, and everything in between. Perfect. Even Paul said, Take this away from me. We don't know what it is, but what did God say? My grace is sufficient for thee. The apostle of apostles prayed for the Lord to change something about him, but God knew that he made Paul perfectly for the task that he needed to have done. I would tell people this, and that is. The growth. Trust that the Lord is growing you to do his perfect work, that you've been equipped to do everything that he needs you to do. That before you've breathed air in this life, the God of the universe took the moment to create you perfectly for what he needs you to be. When you look in the mirror, don't look at what you're not. Look at that. You were created by divine divine hands to be perfect for the task at hand. And that should be confident. Because when God equipped you, He made you. He knew the moment you were gonna be in. And he built you perfectly to go through. And I always say this back to Psalm 23, right? Yea, though I walk through the valley of shadow death, I shall fear no evil. Why? For you art with me in your rod, in your staff. They comfort me. And I will tell you this as we kind of wrap up and ask some questions. Resilience, stay true. It's a fight, it's a race. And just keeping your faith, you're gonna fight because Paul said, I've what? I fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I've kept the faith. It's a fight. And understand if you're struggling, it's okay. We all struggle. But stay firm in the God of the universe. Next is resilience. Don't give up. You don't know if the God of the universe has what you need right around the corner, the dishwashing job that gets you into a pizzeria. That you find the love of your life or the job opportunity of your life or the thing that you need. Stay faithful on the path. Because if you're on God's path, it's the path you want to be on. It's the path. The other thing in that psalm is there's going to be dark times. The Lord didn't say there wasn't. And then comes Job 13, 15, right? Though he slay me, yet will I trust him. And there are gonna be these moments where. I I tell this to viewers 'cause I've walked this walk. Struggles will come. Don't be surprised when they do. Not all of it's God, not all of it's demonic, it's just part of life. Some of it is just the sin that's in here. Sometimes it is very intentional. The enemy throws things at you. And sometimes it's the God of the universe putting you in situations for him to craft you into what he needs you to be. Or put you on a path for a collision course with somebody, something, some opportunity he needs you to see, but it's down the road and you only can get to it by going through this moment in your life. Have faith in that. The other one is never lose faith in your Lord. Never lose faith. Don't cling to the things that you think you can control, but He controls all. Have faith in that control. Have faith in your Lord. And lastly, is the process of sanctification. Every day be a better version of yourself. Walk closer to your Lord. Understand that it's never complete. There's never perfection. And when you look in that mirror, understand that you were. Perfectly created by the Lord of the universe to be what he needed you to be at the moment you're in. That should give you the confidence you need. Take that next step to understand that the Lord built you perfectly for him. And when you understand the God of the universe created you personally, the way you're built, flaws and strengths, that should give you the confidence that he built you for everything you need to be. There's nothing you need, there's nothing that's short, there's no self-help you need to go to or that. God created you to be perfect where you're at. Sometimes you don't like the place that God created us to be perfect where we're at, but you're perfect where you're at. And the last end is this. All of us are in some form of a prison experience, mental prison, physical prison, spiritual prison, real prisons, right? Stay firm in this. I couldn't get out of prison. Well, I could have. That would've been a real bad thing, by the way. Would have gotten me more prison. Right. Right. Don't focus on the prison experience. Focus on what's going in between those walls of your life. Understand that God is there with you, that God will see you through. Stay resilient and walking through your path and have faith that eventually those doors will open and that freedom and that light are waiting for you. Stay firm to that hope.