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Start Me Up: Knitting Cult Lady · Start Me Up with Kimberley A. Johnson

• 0:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Start Me Up podcast part of M.S.W.
• 0:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Media and the sexy liberal podcast network.
• 0:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm your host Kimberly Johnson and D.C. today my fascinating guest is Dan Yella, otherwise known as knitting cult lady on social media.
• 0:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: I found her YouTube page and I was instantly mesmerized.
• 0:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: She was born into the child of God cult and traffic does a child.
• 0:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: She escaped to the U.S. at 15, put herself through school to become a U.S. Army intelligence officer who deployed twice to Afghanistan.
• 0:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now she studies organizational psychology at Harvard Extension School researching group behavioral extremism, leadership, domagagaring, and cults.
• 0:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: I knew I had to get her on the show, but before we get into it, the Start Me Up podcast is independent, listen or fund it, and woman run.
• 0:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Visit patreon.com slash start me up to see the variety of tiers offered, including the option to get a bonus, what's up episode just for patrons every Tuesday.
• 1:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like my online journal where I get a little more personal and I talk about whatever's on my mind.
• 1:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's also an ad free tier with a much shorter intro.
• 1:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Just visit patreon.com slash start me up.
• 1:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, please enjoy my conversation with Daniela, needing cult lady.
• 1:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the show, Daniela.
• 1:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for having me.
• 1:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for being here.
• 1:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: I am absolutely fascinated with you, everything about you and your YouTube channel.
• 1:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was telling you before we hit record, that the reason I even found you is I saw that you did a video called what happens to the members of a cult when a cult leader dies.
• 1:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we're totally gonna get into that.
• 1:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: I thought, and what will happen with magas specifically?
• 1:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: But before we get into it, I would love for you to just introduce yourself to everybody give everybody your bonafides and tell them who you are.
• 1:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, so I usually yell us, scholar of cults, extreme groups, and extremely bad leadership.
• 2:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I was born into a cult called the Children of God.
• 2:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: You probably recognize that from Joaquin and River Phoenix and Rose McGowan, child actors having grown up there.
• 2:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: We were an entertainment cult, but also became famous, unfortunately, for pedophilia and the abuse of children as we always seem to find.
• 2:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, I left the cult as a teenager.
• 2:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: I put myself through school and then I went into the United States Army.
• 2:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: more recently I got a master's degree in organology and I've written a second book that is called the Colting of America.
• 2:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it is my cult tactics book.
• 2:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is how the bad guys do the bad guy stuff and control people.
• 2:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I hope that it is like a helpful manual for people as we are navigating these strange times.
• 2:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you also, and we're going to get to this a little later, you did a video about organizing, specifically that white people say, we don't know how to organize.
• 3:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you do a great job of proving them wrong.
• 3:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to get to that, but I'm just putting that out there, because I know that there are people who listen to my show, and they feel lost, and they don't know what to do.
• 3:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm going to turn to you to help us with that.
• 3:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: However, I do want to get into that first video that I saw.
• 3:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: What happens to members when a call leader dies?
• 3:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: so let's just talk about it.
• 3:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, let's talk about it.
• 3:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: So in my first book on culture, which is a memoir, I actually talk about when this happens in the children of God cult.
• 3:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I was about eight years old and the man who had been the co-leader for 30 years dies.
• 3:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: And what happens when a cult of personality when it is built around this person being this leader for this reason is it just becomes kind of game of thrones right and leadership has to figure out who they're going to slot next into that space, but you don't usually have this huge amount of charismatic people to pull from.
• 4:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
• 4:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: It takes a pretty unique person to actually be the figurehead and be the co-leader.
• 4:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: So a lot of times we see it fracture and very specifically with maga, I see see it fracturing.
• 4:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, and the interesting thing about right now is that
• 4:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of these, I think, were cults of idea that were coming up through American Evangelical communities.
• 4:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: But Trump, very much like the cult leader of my childhood, David Berg, he pulled all of these cults into his cult and built this mega cult of personality.
• 4:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it is very much based on him.
• 4:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think the whole power structure, which is already starting to fracture, will fracture
• 5:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: So what do you think, I mean, what's going to happen?
• 5:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we don't know how this is going to come about.
• 5:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Trump's health is failing every single day.
• 5:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: We can see it.
• 5:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: He clearly have some kind of a dementia.
• 5:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's just say he drops dead or something happens, or I don't, I mean, there's talk of 25th Amendment and I don't see ever ever see that happening.
• 5:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: But regardless, let's just say he's not on the top anymore.
• 5:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Or let's just say he's gone.
• 5:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: He dies of natural causes.
• 5:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: What then happens?
• 5:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so even before the cult leader exits the world, which is the stage we're in right now, the power structure wants to keep him in place, right?
• 5:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: wants to prop him up no matter what.
• 5:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: We see this, I mean, we literally see,
• 5:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: popped up on stuff, Jim Jones, popped up on Barbituettes by his doctors, like keeping him going.
• 6:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: They keep him in place, so they don't want to lose that power structure.
• 6:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: But once he's gone, I'm sorry.
• 6:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think I forgot to, there is no question.
• 6:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Basically, what happens when he's dead?
• 6:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: When he's gone, what happens to the cult?
• 6:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, so this is another thing that sort of happened with the children of God and we coined this term never lefters, you know, in most cult survivors journey people who have had their brains kind of owned by extremism at one time or another, there's a moment of a crack in the brainwashing when you woke up when that cognitive dissonance was too painful.
• 6:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: And you realized, I'm not going to do this anymore, you know, and that process can take decades, which is not the best news.
• 6:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: But a lot of people don't have that when the cult leader dies, or when the cult simply falls apart.
• 7:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so we ended up with all of these cult joiners who just kind of folded back in into whatever they were before, you know,
• 7:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: So it's kind of good news.
• 7:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's no real easy button.
• 7:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: back to what it was before, right?
• 7:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's a power structure that is built, and that can fracture.
• 7:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I really don't see JD Vance leading anybody, success.
• 7:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't either.
• 7:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, let me ask you a question because I have like many Americans, one specific family member who is just heavily into this and has said things like I don't like the news.
• 7:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: um, specifically about like local news.
• 7:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't like the news.
• 7:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, this person only gets their information from the most extreme new sites.
• 8:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're, you know, I shouldn't call them new sites, but, you know, entertainment politically right sites.
• 8:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: But, um, now let's just say, you know, Trump's
• 8:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: just immersed.
• 8:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not only where she's getting her information, but it's her friend group, and I'd like to just throw in there that, you know, from my understanding and it's very basic about cults, it's extremely important to feel like your community and that's what these culture offering.
• 8:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't remember if you're the one who said that or somebody else, but that these people are getting
• 8:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: a real sense of community and all these online forums.
• 8:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so, yeah, if Donald is just going to kick the bucket at some point soon, and I know a lot of people are praying for that, what happens to people like my family member, who is immersed in this world?
• 8:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: And now what happens?
• 8:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because they're not going to become Democrats, and they're not even going to become, you know, independence.
• 9:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Politically, anyway.
• 9:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you know, I mean, the hope is that they'll kind of quietly go back to whatever remains of sort of the Republican Party like me.
• 9:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, with cult survivors, what we usually see is until you are ready to like deconstruct that experience and sort of what it was about you
• 9:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, yes, it can even be true for us called babies who were like, there was nothing about us that made us call TV.
• 9:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: We were just born there.
• 9:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: But like, it was an important part of my self work understanding that I was very addicted to having a mission.
• 9:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I needed to like, have less purpose, it makes sense.
• 10:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, so, yeah, we see, you know, the people from children of God, the majority of them now are in mega.
• 10:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, because they're just going from as you said, like sort of one extreme side to another, you know, there's these things about their personality and you know, I like to be very clear that there's only one reason that people join cults, which is because cult leaders build them right and people like manipulate and deceive them.
• 10:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: and run programs on them and pull them into these belief systems.
• 10:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: But it is, there are specific things about individuals, usually, who are drawn to the cults.
• 10:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then on top of that, cults change you.
• 10:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 10:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right?
• 10:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: And we can see this very dramatically with veterans.
• 10:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, my first book pretty much is calling the army occult and veterans are not generally upset with this concept, you know, we all know that we went into something, it changed us forever and we don't get to go back to being civilians, like we're different.
• 11:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so you see veterans like struggling for the same things to find community, to find
• 11:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: So it's usually that.
• 11:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: And something else that is significant is a lack of social connections.
• 11:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: And if you think about the time we're living in right now, huge amounts of isolation, right?
• 11:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: We call it the male loneliness epidemic, but it's the everyone loneliness epidemic.
• 11:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: Men and women are actually lonely and equal amounts right now.
• 11:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: The algorithms are built to push us to the opposite extremes.
• 11:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: We talk about this in Colting of America, and it's called algorithmic radicalization.
• 11:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: It has a witty page, if anyone wants to go, you know, get a quick rundown, but the basic concept is our, you know, tech overlords discovered that the more radical the content, the longer we will stay on, something which
• 12:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so the algorithms are built to pursue further and further to the extreme of whatever side you are on.
• 12:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: So you were 15 years old when you got at it.
• 12:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, how'd you been indoctrinated into this cult and fully believed everything they told you?
• 12:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: What was that like for you and how did you get out of it?
• 12:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know you wrote a book about it and I encourage everyone to read it, who's interested.
• 12:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: But just as a brief little description for us, as we proceed.
• 12:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so I don't think that I ever believed it.
• 12:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, honestly, I made myself a t-shirt that says just a neurodivergent atheist born to religious extremists.
• 13:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, and on,
• 13:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, 9, 11.
• 13:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: I remember having this moment of hearing the term religious extremists and then wondering if that applied to us.
• 13:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: Wow, you know, which was kind of my crack in the brainwashing if you will, but I just think I'm I'm very logical and there.
• 13:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think brainwashing requires an amount of buying in.
• 13:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, there was nothing the children of God could do to make me believe that their thing was correct.
• 13:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: And they tried.
• 13:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: But when I decided to join the US Army, I was the first one to buy in.
• 13:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: And there are usually parts of the beginning of brainwashing that are for that specifically to push yourself through the lack of logic.
• 14:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, so what happens to children when they're raised withheld from the world and only given one way to think is actually called, and I apologize for this term in advance, mind rape.
• 14:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: And like that is a very significant thing.
• 14:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: But by the time I was 11, I was like making plans.
• 14:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: How am I going to get out of here?
• 14:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: Didn't really know any options because
• 14:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: my entire family was in the cult, my grandfather runs the money.
• 14:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so at 15, I just got myself excommunicated.
• 14:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: I just broke their biggest baddest role, literally climbed over the commune walls to go fellowship with an outsider boy and got caught.
• 14:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so it was, you know, let me out of here.
• 15:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: and see her a dollar's in a hug and there it was just like everything I knew kind of disappeared in rolling in high school was a crazy experience because they were like you don't exist.
• 15:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Wow that's crazy.
• 15:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Wow your story is just remarkable.
• 15:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: your everything that you have to offer here is it's so valuable and I appreciate it and you know I I don't know what else to say other than I'm extremely sorry that you had to go through this but I but I would imagine that it's obviously giving you this wealth of information that you can pass on to everybody else.
• 15:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: So at least there's something there's something to do.
• 15:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, one of the things that's interesting is that, you know, I, I quickly realized I had grown up in a cult about two years after I got out, because in an extreme way, because children have got it so extreme.
• 15:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: So it was a murder suicide on television saying children have called over,
• 16:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: including, you know, going to college in Texas during the army, it was very obvious to me that many other millennials had also been raised in like a very similar kind of extremism and we just hadn't really identified it or named it yet and now it's interesting because we can look back and be like, oh, they were growing up in Maga.
• 16:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, all of the, yeah, evangelical and kind of like extreme groups all now have essentially fed into magra.
• 16:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 16:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so I would kind of say, you know, I've been, I've been strategically doing this for a long time.
• 17:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it started for me right after his first election where I was like, I recognize this.
• 17:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: I know he's going to win because of his extremism, not in spite of it.
• 17:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: As the pundits were saying,
• 17:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so, you know, I wrote my first book to kind of show this like parallel between a super extreme cult that everyone thinks they would recognize the children of God and something like the U.S. Army that we also all think we would recognize and understand.
• 17:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: So that's my first book Uncultured and then I immediately started working on this tactics book and.
• 17:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, so it's interesting.
• 17:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think I am, I'm well-placed to kind of help us understand what is going on in the country right now, but it is definitely something that a whole bunch of groups have been working toward for a long time.
• 17:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is, you know, we're at the end of a hundred year chess game right now.
• 17:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, fortunately it's not going that well for them though.
• 18:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, exactly.
• 18:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, and this is the last question on this particular subject.
• 18:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: I want to ask you, you know, we're watching everything and you would said earlier It looks like it's kind of falling apart and can you just kind of talk to that and explain why you see this maga fracturing what's going on that informs you that is good news for the country anyway.
• 18:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully
• 18:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: So first of all, and I say this having lived through it with the children of God, which survived 10 years after its founder's death, but ultimately fell apart very quickly, because they failed to keep the children.
• 18:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: When you fail to keep or recruit the next generation, your cult cannot survive.
• 18:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I say this to the Mormons, right?
• 18:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like it doesn't matter that they have more money than Heavenly Father, they are not keeping the children.
• 18:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: So they are already falling apart.
• 18:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's just taking longer to get to that tipping point.
• 18:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: right so we already know from the election that put him in office that he is only keeping the only demographic of Gen Z that really voted for him was white men right young angry white men good news they don't have the children right
• 19:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then, you know, the one thing that kind of took me a little off guard was when they first came out and said, we're not giving you the absteen list.
• 19:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because that was their mission.
• 19:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 19:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
• 19:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: So what in a cult, what is very important?
• 19:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: And this is my third point in my 10 part list in my new book is the transcendent mission.
• 19:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
• 19:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: This big, huge mission that he had given
• 19:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: political apocalypse on their enemies.
• 19:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: He was going to perp walk the Clintons in the Obama's.
• 19:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: All of it became tied to the abstain list.
• 19:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, he was going to pull all these children out of cages and give them their big apocalypse moment, right?
• 20:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then he, he just came out and was like, no, we're not going to do it.
• 20:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then very quickly mocked them to their faces.
• 20:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, call it a host.
• 20:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: Was an interesting time when I think he dropped his mask, probably because of age and dementia.
• 20:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: And actually showed his followers how much he hated them.
• 20:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: And we see this in in game for co-leaders sometime.
• 20:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
• 20:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I feel like I have been watching Maga bleed out since that day.
• 20:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right?
• 20:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: And also,
• 20:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, the promise of the cult is always a lie.
• 20:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is where I say, like, cult's always promised space travel.
• 20:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Their mission is only given to you after some kind of impossible transformation.
• 20:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so as soon as he's got it into office, he's been losing his people.
• 20:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: He hasn't done one good thing for people.
• 20:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: He hasn't done one thing he's promised.
• 20:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: He has just, on his revenge tour and grasping for power as hard as he can.
• 21:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I have so many questions for you, but I'm going to stick to my list.
• 21:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 21:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, we.
• 21:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 21:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let me go back.
• 21:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, you know, another video that you did, you talked about matriarchy and you said, we could try responding to the Epstein news like matriarchy.
• 21:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I just kind of want to preface this a little bit because I've been hearing, you know, a lot.
• 21:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a feminist.
• 21:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: I've been a feminist, an, an outspoken feminist lease online since probably around 2012.
• 21:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: I've been a feminist my whole life, but still it's, you know, I've been talking about it.
• 21:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so back like in 2012, I would post about rape or I would post about women's issues or whatever.
• 21:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I, you know, it was popular because when I first got into this whole world, it was mainly because of the Rush Limbaugh calling, and of course, her name is escaping me, but anyway, he called a woman a slut on his radio show for three days.
• 21:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that kind of like catapulted me into it into the conversation.
• 22:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I would see, you know, there was a lot of conversation about it, but then at that point Obama got reelected, and everybody kind of dropped this war on women thing, even though the war on women was not dropped, but kind of like the public dropped it.
• 22:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: So cut to now,
• 22:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, see a lot of people talking about patriarchy and matriarchy and it's a different conversation.
• 22:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm seeing more men getting on board with this.
• 22:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'd like to therefore, you know, for more even more men, but I am seeing men get on this and they get it and they understand it in ways.
• 22:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: They weren't understanding it 12 years ago.
• 22:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think that's interesting and I think that's good.
• 22:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you've had that same experience.
• 22:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I wanted one of the things you mentioned in this video and then I want you to talk about this specifically back in 2012.
• 23:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: I remember I did a post about rape and it was some blog that a woman had written and it was all about everything women had to do in our culture to protect themselves from rape.
• 23:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, I don't know if you've gotten them, but I'm a gen Xer, and I can't tell you how many emails I've received online where you're not, if you go outside, if you're gonna run, don't put your hair in a ponytail because that's easier for a rapist to grab and pull you behind the bushes.
• 23:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: And look in your car before you get into it at night because there might be a rapist in your car.
• 23:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so we're constantly being told, watch out for rapists, rapists around every fucking corner,
• 23:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, and I put it up and I said everybody needs to read this and this man came on and he was so angry with me and he was like, you know, why are you acting like I don't know anything if anybody raped my daughter, I would kill him and it made me so angry because I was like, oh my god, this is just totally performative toxic male behavior and so you did speak to that in this particular video and I do want to get back to Epstein, but I want you to talk about that because I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.
• 24:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so, you know, first of all, I want to say I wrote about this in my book Uncultured about the military, like where we are literally told, like, don't get yourself raped.
• 24:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
• 24:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, and I always say, like, it's an important part of my story that I was one of the first women out on these mixed gender patrols.
• 24:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: So you see me going out alone with 25 men, and you also see me being pulled aside and told to watch my back.
• 24:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: against these same men, right?
• 24:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: And at the time, the only thing I really thought to say was like,
• 24:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: But what am I supposed to do?
• 24:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right?
• 24:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: How many of them do you think I can take?
• 24:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right?
• 24:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: But not of us.
• 24:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: And this happened to me three times, by the way.
• 24:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: And none of us stopped and were like, why?
• 24:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: Why are we afraid that 25 American soldiers are going to simultaneously lose their minds and rape an officer out on the objective?
• 25:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you know, and that's the culture, right?
• 25:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, patriarchy, I think is very performative and it's very focused on justice and punishment.
• 25:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: But even going back to what you said about feminism.
• 25:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: Or early on, I think now my husband is one of these good men that gets it.
• 25:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: But early on, he was worried.
• 25:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, he actually said to me that he thought I cared more about feminism than about
• 25:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: our marriage.
• 25:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, he didn't understand how it worked.
• 25:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: But what I said to him was babe, feminism is not men against women.
• 25:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
• 25:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: It is you and I both against our girl child having a one and three chance of being assaulted before she gets to college.
• 26:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
• 26:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: So like
• 26:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: coming all the way to matriarchy, you know, there's this great quote that patriarchy is a hierarchy with men at the top.
• 26:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think we all know this.
• 26:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: And people mistake matriarchy for a ladder with women at the top.
• 26:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
• 26:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: But matriarchy is a circle with children and the vulnerable in the center.
• 26:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right?
• 26:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so, you know, one of the things I said in response to the upstream list
• 26:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, what if we thought about responding as a matriarchy?
• 26:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I see, you know, I'm going to practice this for saying, like, I grew up in a famous pedophile cult.
• 26:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think about these words, famous pedophile cult.
• 26:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: They performed at the White House in the 90s twice.
• 26:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I have always known that, you know, pedophiles are running things and then in power do terrible things.
• 27:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so I'm not surprised with them not getting justice.
• 27:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: But you know, if something like that happened to my child, I'm sure that I would want to do the worst things to the person who hurt her.
• 27:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: But what I would actually do is stay with her and make sure she is okay.
• 27:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, even when they do try to go and protect, it's never done in the right way, but if we actually cared about protecting the children and at scale in America, what that really means is strengthening our child exploitation laws strengthening our child labor laws.
• 27:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, I talk about this in my chapter on exploitation of labor.
• 28:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: We have child labor laws in America, but there's four huge industries, which they're completely accepted and plus if your family or your church is doing it, it's pretty much completely accepted and we get to this kind of exploitation through exploitation of children and labor in the first place.
• 28:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so, you know, strengthening our labor laws, taking children out of property law,
• 28:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: like we did with women and giving children their own rights.
• 28:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, no, the right, well, where's it fucking right on that?
• 28:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: And they will.
• 28:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: And in other countries, parents have responsibilities and children have rights.
• 28:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: And in America, children are simply the most oppressed class.
• 28:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: And as long as we are not protecting the children, we're gonna have these kinds of problems.
• 28:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Wow, yeah, that's just, it's a lot to think about.
• 28:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think, you know, I had written an article on my Patreon page back in 2019, and I can't remember exactly what the title was.
• 29:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: But it was something like white men, rape women, and children, and, you know, go free or whatever.
• 29:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's, I just have example, after example, of all of these white men, all various different ages,
• 29:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: getting either no, that's what it was no prison time for men, for white men who rape women and children.
• 29:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think one of, it's not the only thing, but one way we can change that is by getting more women on the bench because all these judges who decided that the rapists weren't going to get any kind of punishment were also white men.
• 29:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: Another thing Kimberly is like we can talk about it more you know we can we white women have been taught to be so nice and so light yes and I remember when I first started telling my story I thought it was my responsibility to like protect people from hearing these horrible things
• 30:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: which was then completely reinforced by the publishing industry, where I just received rejection after rejection, saying we don't do books by the children of God.
• 30:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: The abuse is too horrible.
• 30:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my God.
• 30:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: We don't do books about military women because nobody reads them.
• 30:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think because we expect the abuse is gonna be too horrible.
• 30:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right?
• 30:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I had to come to my own realization that like, no, it's not my job.
• 30:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, it's not six year old Danielle is job to protect adults from learning about the things that are done.
• 30:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so it is only very recently that.
• 30:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I did it.
• 30:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: I told the story that I wanted to tell in Uncultured and like it is it is tough.
• 30:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: It is tough to get through.
• 30:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 30:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: Both on the pedophile side and on the military side, but I think it's important as you talked about earlier, like telling these stories and talking about it.
• 31:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: and calling out the performative responses and calling out the ways our society teaches women to have to protect themselves instead of calling out the men who are doing the thing and pushing them out of society, right?
• 31:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: In a society run by matriarchs, those men would have no place in society.
• 31:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 31:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: They do it now because they can, you know, because they're like, it proves the ultimate power.
• 31:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I just posted a meme with Christina Ricci quote that says, maybe we should start talking about how many men out of three will sexually assault women.
• 31:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Instead of how many women out of three will be assaulted.
• 31:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's shift the ownership.
• 31:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, these kinds of sentiments were going around, you know, years ago, I'm sure back in the 60s, but it wasn't always taking.
• 32:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm wondering if you think that because of what's happening because of Donald Trump and Mega, do you think that it's starting to take now?
• 32:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you think that the idea of matriarchy is a real thing that can happen here?
• 32:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Or do you still think it's like a far away dream?
• 32:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, going back to this like we got to stop putting it on the responsibility on the women and we got to change the way they talk about it, you know, and in uncultured I show this like the children and the cult pulling each other aside and warning which uncle is creepy and then.
• 32:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: me as a captain being pulled aside and told to to watch out for the Colonel instead of like what what yeah like why are these men not being told that like this is not an appropriate way to act and you know it goes so far in my situation as like when I'm assaulted in Afghanistan like I am I'm armed and he's not
• 33:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I make you look at that moment afterward where I pick up my gun and walk off, right?
• 33:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so it has to be, like, it has to be a change in the culture.
• 33:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: But I do think it's shifting, and I do think Majority is possible.
• 33:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, honestly, I think what we are living through right now is these interlocking cult systems of patriarchy and white supremacy and capitalism, like shifting and hopefully coming down.
• 33:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, this Epstein thing, I think is is so part of it, right?
• 33:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like the the most powerful men in the world have been trying to squash this.
• 33:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: for decades, and they have not been able to.
• 33:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I swear when that survivor conference happened and they said, we're making our own list.
• 33:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: I was like the the crack, right?
• 33:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like the energy shift, you know, these men, they're so busy being powerful, getting whatever they want, controlling the
• 34:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: great.
• 34:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, and, and it's not working.
• 34:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: Every, you know, I have a little, like, social media following and every time someone types, this is just a distraction from the abstinence.
• 34:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: You're still talking about it, right?
• 34:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: They haven't been able to take our eyes off of it.
• 34:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 34:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's, it's actually been interesting.
• 34:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: I started watching this as like, well, nobody cares about children being assaulted, but I think we're finding out that actually most of us do care, except for the men who have always been allowed to do whatever they want.
• 34:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: And if we just all walk away from those men at the same time, yes, there's nothing they can do.
• 34:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my God, you're so right, I just want to throw this out there really briefly because Deepak Chopra who I never followed has said some really disgusting things in the files that was emailed to Jeffrey Epstein that appear he is a pedophile himself and what he was doing as a guru was telling everybody about divine feminine energy and I just, you know,
• 35:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: please everybody be careful with the guru guy you know i'm hope i'm helping that the guru man
• 35:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: thing is on its way out goes away.
• 35:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 35:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, I, so for me, it's, it's the guru guy and the asshole leader.
• 35:41
  [UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
• 35:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like anything that ends in O'Ne Robbins.
• 35:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
• 35:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: Totally.
• 35:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so when I tell you, like when I published a memoir and my publisher was like, you have to get on social media and build a following.
• 35:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: I was like, you know,
• 35:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: I can't do it, right?
• 36:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: I cannot do it.
• 36:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I, you know, actually didn't successfully do it before my first book.
• 36:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think because I was studying it, right?
• 36:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I was like, why does it create me out so much?
• 36:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: So one of the tools I have in Colting of America in the back, rival these fun quizzes and things I used my organizational psychology Harvard Masters for, I have my 15-part Guru Gacha checklist.
• 36:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I always say, you know, I did this to keep myself in check.
• 36:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 36:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, I had to call myself out for calling them maggots, right?
• 36:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Do you want to say what you wish?
• 36:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: Don't do that.
• 36:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, but my favorite, one of my favorite, I call like anti-cult vaccines, come from the...
• 36:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: comes from this amazing cult scholar, Dr. Yannia Lollidge, and she always tells people, she's like, do whatever you need to do for your spirituality, right?
• 36:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: Do whatever helps you sleep at night, but there are no gurus.
• 37:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 37:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, if you just think about like the 80s and 90s and who was on television cooking sold as the gurus
• 37:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: And like they're all in the files, right?
• 37:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yep, they're all doing the bad stuff.
• 37:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: And you know, I came to this realization watching general F admiral in the military come out with these scandals.
• 37:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I was like, well, yeah, we treat them as gods.
• 37:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, exactly.
• 37:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: Literally treat them as gods, you know.
• 37:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so there was a case that got settled
• 37:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: It was doing Biden's administration.
• 37:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: But there was a thing called the Ferris doctrine that said that you can't sue the military for anything incidental to military service.
• 37:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it had always been interpreted, again, by men in power to include rape.
• 38:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
• 38:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so this admiral, who is, I believe, the number two guy under Trump, raped a lieutenant colonel and then said to her face, you can't do anything about it.
• 38:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so this one took it all the way to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, where a male judge was said, you know, there is nothing about military service that makes rape incidental to service.
• 38:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: And guess what, 10 days later, the president magically took away the decision to prosecute major crimes from the military.
• 38:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: something that, or from the command, right?
• 38:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: So something that that feminists and activists for fighting for women's protection in the military have been asking for for a long, long time is the commander should not get to decide whether someone in his unit or her unit gets prosecuted or not.
• 38:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: And they will always have sworn for centuries that it could not be done.
• 39:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: It would completely break the military.
• 39:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: But 10 days after, they could get sued for it.
• 39:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: It was magically done.
• 39:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, I think this is like kind of also a good example of like the structure can change.
• 39:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: We can stop supporting these interpretations done by these men to make themselves gods.
• 39:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: So let's now switch this over to white women who hold up the patriarchy.
• 39:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, I unfriended there were two women that I knew back in the 90s and it's like early 2000s and I used to be an actress, both of them were actresses and they both voted for Trump and I was like, I just don't want to know you anymore, so I let them go.
• 39:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know quite a few, no, I don't know them now.
• 39:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't hang out with anybody who would vote for him.
• 40:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I just want to talk to you about the kind of woman that holds up the patriarchy and why.
• 40:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then, how do we undo that?
• 40:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: How do we convince them?
• 40:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: So in my book, I call her the skinny white woman.
• 40:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: Another actress was arrested, Allison Mac, of netxium, right?
• 40:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: So when Allison Mac got arrested, I was like, no, not the way from small fill.
• 40:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right?
• 40:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, but why?
• 40:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: Why is it always these skinny white women, right?
• 40:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I was basically asking myself that question a bunch, as I was like doing my studies on cults and group behavior,
• 40:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: and then G-Lane Maxwell, and I was like, there it is again.
• 40:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: And that was when I was like, oh, of course, right?
• 41:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's the white woman walking out the beauty triarchy.
• 41:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: to actually love it these days when people are like, why should I be white?
• 41:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, oh, I have 25 page chapters in my book.
• 41:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it is exactly that because of like, American white supremacy, where the white woman and literally we're thinking now the plantation mistress, right, is someone who looks very much like you and I, right, blonde hair and blue eyed
• 41:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: skinny beyond all reasons sometimes, and is there to purify.
• 41:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and I call it in cults, I call it like a validity mascot, you know, so in white lead cults in America tends to be this skinny white woman.
• 41:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: If you look in other cultures, it's like what confers validity to that, but it is literally a distraction, right?
• 42:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: It is literally whitewashing the sins of the cult.
• 42:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: And you know, usually, especially in the case of nexium,
• 42:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: The code leader themselves are not very impressive.
• 42:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: Usually they're kind of a blumbling idiot present administration.
• 42:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, exactly.
• 42:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: And like there was a movie that was made about Nexium and the survivors were actually really angry that they picked an attractive man to play Keith Reneary because they're like you're actually lessenane.
• 42:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, lessening the impact of his charisma if you were under the spell that you couldn't see, like, what a flub this morning, just in every version of that work.
• 42:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: So what did he do?
• 42:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: He surrounded himself with all these perfect Hollywood actresses to confer validity.
• 42:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: on that, to make people look away.
• 42:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: And what I say in the book is, you know, guillain Maxwell, or the woman who took over our call in the children of God, like that's exactly who you want by your side when you are sex trafficking children.
• 43:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because nobody looks at women that look like looks like us and thinks, oh, they're evil.
• 43:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, they're bad news.
• 43:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: And do you think, I mean, what does obviously each woman's going to have her own individual story?
• 43:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And there are going to be a lot of women, and I'm going to include these women that I know that feel they need to depend on a man to pay for their life, to keep them in whatever comfort they're in.
• 43:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that would be a part of it.
• 43:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, one of these women that I knew,
• 43:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: lived in a red state.
• 43:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it was interesting because I asked her, it was in 2016 and I said, did you vote for Donald Trump?
• 43:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: And she said, yes, Hillary lies.
• 43:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I just said, well, I can't be a friend anymore.
• 43:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then she wrote, bye.
• 44:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, it was like,
• 44:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: She was listening to Fox News, I would imagine, she was listening to her friends, I don't know.
• 44:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know she's married, and frankly, I would be surprised to find out her husband is mega, I don't know.
• 44:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: But from what I knew of him prior to all of this, I would be surprised.
• 44:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: But she was so indoctrinated into that red state thing, and then the other woman that I know, both the blond skinny actresses, one of them was someone who came from money,
• 44:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: had lived in Los Angeles, worked as an actress pretty successfully for a while, but then was, you know, with her husband, and I don't remember, we never talked about politics at that time, again, it was like the early 2000s, but she and her husband, you know, they didn't have a lot of money and her parents were supporting them, and eventually she left him to go back to not only, first she lived with her parents and then her parents paid for her,
• 45:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: fabulous New York apartment until she met Mr. Money bags.
• 45:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then the guy that she met early on in their marriage strangled her, tripped their little boy when he was running across the like he was one year old, two year old boy running, father just stuck his leg out to watch the little boy fall.
• 45:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: She stayed with him until eventually, she couldn't anymore, and then when they divorced, she got a big chunk of money, and now she's living in Palm Beach.
• 45:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, I mean,
• 45:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: What are these women that I'm telling you, I know you don't know them, but I mean, why are they holding us?
• 45:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Is it just because they want the comfort that they get from their friends and their family and all the men that they hook up with?
• 45:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, essentially, yes, you know, it's the plantation mistress, right?
• 45:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: And there's always an extreme amount of
• 45:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: to convince the women closest to the power source that they are better off there.
• 46:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right?
• 46:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: And like, if we think about it even at the time, like there were women who were better off and the plantation mistress was not free either.
• 46:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right?
• 46:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, he was also owned by that man.
• 46:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: but there's so much work that is done by society to convince you that like this is the life that you want.
• 46:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're so lucky.
• 46:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're so lucky because you've got this man to pay for everything for you.
• 46:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, and you know, I think part of the work of taking down white supremacy for me is getting people to understand that like white people,
• 46:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, the promise of the cult is always a lie.
• 46:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
• 46:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like white women, we are not better off.
• 46:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: No, white supremacy or patriarchy.
• 46:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: We are better off than black women.
• 46:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: But we are for all.
• 46:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 46:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: Great.
• 47:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: And that is
• 47:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: where these skinny white women need to do the work, right?
• 47:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think that for so many white women who think they're going to deconstruct, right?
• 47:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: And think they're on the left and they're feminist and they're all of this when they realize that the white man they sleep next to is not going to come all the way with them on that journey, you know, you have a choice to make.
• 47:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 47:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: Are you going to do it or are you going to walk away?
• 47:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: And the good news though 30% of millennial women are walking away.
• 47:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: that is good news and you know I want to ask you this too because I've seen calls for you know white women like me to address other white women who are you know like my old friends I don't know what I could say I don't know that I know that if I were to call either one of them up right now and start talking to them about this I don't believe
• 48:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what to say to them in order to like smack the smack them into reality.
• 48:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Is there anything we can say?
• 48:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I mean, this is the question of can you get someone out of a cult?
• 48:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 48:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I always say to people like my grandfather still runs the money.
• 48:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, my, my new book has a 38-page bibliography.
• 48:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, if there was a way, we don't know about it yet, right?
• 48:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 48:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, I, I think it's very hard to engineer individual cracks in the brain washing, like you said, I agree with you.
• 48:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think there's anything you could say to convince your maga friend that she's in a cult.
• 48:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: right and it is with with with belief systems.
• 48:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like it is very much like with abuse of relationships.
• 48:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like until they are ready to see it until they have that crack in the brainwashing, there's not necessarily a lot you can do.
• 49:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: Now I do think, you know, for us as white women, who are creators, who have platforms, like it is very important for us to speak to other white women.
• 49:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I have like made it part of my job to help radicalize.
• 49:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: white women, you know, like nobody wants to do the white privilege game with me.
• 49:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: I came here with zero dollars from a cult.
• 49:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: All right, exactly.
• 49:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: First time I heard about white privilege, I was like, oh, that's why everybody helped me so much.
• 49:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
• 49:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: There you go.
• 49:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, so it's definitely important for like those of us or like this morning, I made a video about like the target.
• 49:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Boycott is not over.
• 49:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
• 49:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like tentos down.
• 49:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 49:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: You're not going back to target.
• 49:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: So that is important.
• 49:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: And then finally what I say to people is if you suspect that your person has had a crack in the brain washing, right?
• 49:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I think that
• 50:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: But I also think every time he does something he says he would never do, it's going to be a crack for people.
• 50:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: He just said end-masti rotations.
• 50:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 50:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: What is it?
• 50:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: So if you suspect your person has had a crack in the brain washing, then there is something you can do, which is get in there and widen that crack.
• 50:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I would say the good thing about cracks is they let the light in, right?
• 50:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: They're really good lighting the light in, no matter how high they are.
• 50:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and you can do that by asking them a lot of questions and actually one of the things we've included with our new book, not included, but we made as a companion is an uncultured yourself workbook that you can actually like work through all of the pieces of a cult, so it might give people some ideas, but like just asking them a lot of questions about if they still believe it and why, you know, and letting them do most of the talk in.
• 50:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: because I would assume a lot of them aren't even talking in their own heads about that.
• 51:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're not asking themselves those questions.
• 51:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, and that's the beauty of it because there's a difference of going, you're wrong, you're making the wrong decision, shame on you, bad, bad, bad, as opposed to, why are you still with it?
• 51:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: What do you think?
• 51:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because then they get to talk it through and then they get to kind of see it themselves instead of being yelled at.
• 51:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: So part of what cults do to people in the initial phase, and we talk about this in culting of America, is get you to not even think about it, right?
• 51:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: And the more and more we understood this, the more Mormons talk the world, I think, that you can be in a completely closed system, but still act like you're operating normally.
• 51:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's what cults want, right?
• 51:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: Cult want to exploit your labor.
• 51:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: So what they want is for you to be this little meat puppet that never thinks about anything and never asks questions.
• 51:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: And one of the ways they do that is with thought-stop-incloshase and language, self-sacrifice.
• 51:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: This is all stuff that we talk about, that people will probably recognize from their loved ones.
• 52:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: but they don't think about it, right?
• 52:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: They have suspended their interrogation, you know, and Mormons literally called this, like, put it on the shelf.
• 52:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 52:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
• 52:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: Or they will say doubt your doubts.
• 52:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so then X Mormons have this analogy of when the shelf breaks, you know, and there's just one too many things when you think about it.
• 52:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: Finally.
• 52:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: And this is what's amazing about cracks in the brainwashing.
• 52:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's like usually the first thing we see is the person doubles down.
• 52:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 52:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: They don't want to imagine coming to terms with the fact that this man has been tricking you for the last decade of your life.
• 52:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's really hard to come to terms with and so people try to double down but like you can't Logic yourself through illogical positions and a whole part of getting into the cult in the first place was getting you to accept illogical things This is why you know when we saw with the shootings of Renee good and Alex pretty
• 53:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, people asking me like, why are they saying such obvious lies to the news and the thing is like they didn't it doesn't matter how obvious of lies they were they didn't need to be good lies, they just need to.
• 53:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, because as soon as their people heard their version that was it.
• 53:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, how they were going to see it and that was how they were going to filter it.
• 53:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we know that's true because of all the comments from people echoing what they said exactly.
• 53:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: So.
• 53:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, I really hope that what I have done with my book is like
• 53:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: do what the intelligence officer does, which is what my job was in the military, and like give you all these tactics.
• 53:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 53:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, like this book is actually not a call out book at all.
• 53:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like it's in the, I mean, I call out some groups that you're not expecting, like I'll call it's anonymous or the salvation army.
• 53:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: But it's really about showing you, like these are the tactics that they're using.
• 54:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 54:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, so an interesting one with Trump is Trance Talk.
• 54:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it is a, you know, philosopher mixed with a Baptist preacher mixed with jumping from talk to a big, modulating your voice almost every famous president has done it, charismatic president, for example, you know, so one of the things you can do is print out his speeches.
• 54:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
• 54:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: And have them read it aloud.
• 54:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 54:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it makes no sense.
• 54:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: God, that's right.
• 54:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they're just like Sarah Paylan, you know, whenever she would say something, it was always called word salad, but when you would listen to her, you would kind of get it, but when you would read it, it looked insane.
• 54:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's the same with all of them.
• 54:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: And you have to separate them from the charisma, right?
• 54:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
• 54:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 54:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: Some of her, as she was running against him, right?
• 54:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: Got a phone call from him.
• 54:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: And she talks about having to remind herself, right?
• 55:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and I think not gonna lie.
• 55:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think this is why he hates ASL interpreters.
• 55:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: If you don't know he's canceled all of the, you know, Wow, that's bad.
• 55:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't know that.
• 55:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I really think it's because he will have nothing separate his audience from literally hearing him.
• 55:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, and one of the tips I give everyone not in the call of Maca, like you don't have to listen to Trump ever, ever.
• 55:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: I stop listening to that man's voice during the first
• 55:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't listen to him either.
• 55:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm having to start again because I'm writing a Colt baby musical and I'm playing.
• 55:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: But you don't have to listen to the Colt readers and you don't have to believe what they say right and people say you're doing it.
• 55:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, and people like Heather Cracks Richardson, they say that's all the time.
• 55:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: She's a great follow on her story right now.
• 56:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: People don't know, but she's like, I don't watch his stuff.
• 56:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: I will go watch somebody else.
• 56:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, me too.
• 56:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I know.
• 56:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: And people will say, well, you have to know because your loved ones who are in it.
• 56:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, my parents were in the cult for a decade longer than I was.
• 56:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: Loved him the whole time, kept a relation.
• 56:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: once read the garbage from their cult or listen to their cult reader, like once I left, right?
• 56:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: You do not have to immerse yourself in like the hog wash of the cult just because you have loved ones who are in it.
• 56:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, sometimes you need to just walk away and leave a door open for them to reach out to you when they have that crap.
• 56:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then, you know, I never remember this guy's name, but there's a guy on Instagram.
• 56:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's a doctor.
• 56:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: He always talks about how he treats people just like Trump.
• 56:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And one of the things that he talked about a couple of weeks ago was Kirk Cameron, who is super evangelical, had just said something about he didn't think there was,
• 57:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: something like, he didn't believe in the idea of hell.
• 57:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: And this is a big deal, right?
• 57:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: So this doctor was pointing out, you know, keep an eye on Kirk Cameron right now because clearly he was in that evangelical religious cult.
• 57:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: And now he's starting to go, oh wait a minute, I don't think there's, I don't think there's eternal damnation.
• 57:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that's real.
• 57:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's just like one little piece that it's like a piece of yarn that's being pulled and it's starting to unravel with his point.
• 57:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, and I think that goes into your point.
• 57:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then I just kind of want to bring this into the last thing that I want to talk about because I saw another video of yours.
• 57:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: So many good videos, so thank you for putting them out.
• 57:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you said it was that white people say we don't know how to organize aside from proving them wrong, which I'd like you to do.
• 58:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: You said fear of death as a tenant of white supremacy, white people are afraid of getting in trouble.
• 58:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then you said local pushback breaks dictatorship.
• 58:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: So please talk about that.
• 58:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, um, so good news.
• 58:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: I did organize.
• 58:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: I just got done with my national protest this last weekend.
• 58:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: It was an angry knitting.
• 58:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and I was responding to this, you know, like white people don't know how to organize.
• 58:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I was like, but we do, right?
• 58:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: Church picnics, potlucks, um, protesting desegregation, you know, so I challenged my audience to tap into their best MLM souls and turn people out.
• 58:47
  [SPEAKER_03]: And we like,
• 58:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: very successfully tested a national network that was online right like my following and we raised $20,000 we got participation from all over the nation and Sweden and Canada and we got
• 59:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: 50 solidarity events going on around the country.
• 59:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
• 59:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: And we got 300 people in person last Sunday and we got together and we so together like all of these granny squares, the people had sent in while we educated ourselves on civic engagement, but also
• 59:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: part of what I was trying to do was model.
• 59:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know how to organize either, so I'm just going to get out and do it.
• 59:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: And also to infect people, you know, when I was like the cult of running, we always used to say a, you turn someone into a runner by getting them to sign up for a 5K, you know, taking an individual event and you do it as a group and you add some fun around it.
• 59:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: And now you've got the bug.
• 59:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: part of our problem is we don't have groups anymore like white people like we lost community for whiteness we really did and now a lot of our groups are falling apart again Americans are so isolated and not part of anything and like a reminder that like a knitting circle can be where you organize political pushback.
• 1:00:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, another thing we did was we did a website that's a resource www.angreenidin.org and you can go there to find out how you can push back in your area.
• 1:00:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: But we also got thousands and thousands of people into our Discord chat and they're bringing more people and you know, they were organizing to get to our event but like in November we're going to organize to get out the boat.
• 1:00:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, so we do know how to organize.
• 1:00:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: We just need to do it.
• 1:00:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: A fear of death is a tentative white supremacy.
• 1:00:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, there are only two ways to control somebody.
• 1:00:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: You have authority by force, and you have authority by convincing them to give you authority.
• 1:01:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right, which is charismatic authority.
• 1:01:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: Let me talk about that in the book.
• 1:01:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: And like Americans cannot be controlled by force.
• 1:01:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: There are way too many of us.
• 1:01:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: Another thing you mentioned was, you know, I grew up setting the Brazilian military dictatorship because I grew up in Brazil right after the end of the military dictatorship.
• 1:01:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: And
• 1:01:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, Brazilians organized, learned from that, voted out their dictatorship and were able to come back stronger and then when their president just tried to do it again, they knew how to respond.
• 1:01:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 1:01:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, and on of the ways you control an entire group of people, if you can't control them by force, is getting them to be afraid of you.
• 1:01:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right, which is another thing I remind people all the time, like the tyrants want you to be anxious.
• 1:01:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: If you're doing scrolling, they want that right they want you to be afraid of them with their afraid of is that you will laugh at them.
• 1:02:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right, if we are not afraid, then.
• 1:02:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: then he actually has to be better.
• 1:02:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: Then he actually has to be able to control by force.
• 1:02:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: And this is where I put my soldier head on, right?
• 1:02:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: And like, soldiers will like, we get over this real fast, you know?
• 1:02:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, either I'm gonna be okay or it's gonna immediately not be my problem, you know?
• 1:02:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so like, if we all pushed back together, yeah, some people might die, but most of us will not.
• 1:02:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: The human brain is really good at telling ourselves, we won't be the ones that it happens to.
• 1:02:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
• 1:02:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so what we really need right now is for white America to realize, like stop, staying in line, right?
• 1:02:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: Stop being so afraid, right?
• 1:02:55
  [SPEAKER_03]: If what you took away from Nicole Good's death is now they're even shooting white women, we can't go out and protest.
• 1:03:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: I need you to understand that they can't shoot all of us.
• 1:03:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 1:03:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, one of the great things about white women is there is just so many of us, especially middle age, don't give an F, great.
• 1:03:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: As long as we are afraid of getting in trouble,
• 1:03:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, like we're not going to effectively push back and well, and you know what I just want to say that it is scary right and it scares me, but then you just have to get over it because it you know we have to show up for all all I'm specifically talking about white people here we have to show up for these people who are literally legitimately afraid people of color people who are vulnerable who you know as I noticed last whenever the last no kings march was.
• 1:03:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: I did notice in my area, which there's a lot, there's a very large black population.
• 1:03:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't see a lot of black people standing out there, but I was really happy to see white people at all ages and we are the ones who have to go out there for all one of the things that I hope people learned from the last no-kins march because another one is coming up.
• 1:04:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, March 28th.
• 1:04:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: 10 million white-led Americans rolled out of their houses at the same time.
• 1:04:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: The government could do exactly absolutely nothing.
• 1:04:28
  [SPEAKER_03]: They could have done to control us.
• 1:04:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:04:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
• 1:04:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, I want to give another example, if we remember early in the administration, when these women at a restaurant were chanting at him that he was the Hitler of our time.
• 1:04:42
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
• 1:04:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: If everyone in that house, 75 to 100 people if everyone had grabbed their steak knife and moved in, there would have been very little the senior service could have done.
• 1:04:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
• 1:04:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so I'm not necessarily advocating violence.
• 1:04:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: No.
• 1:04:56
  [SPEAKER_03]: great.
• 1:04:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: But the last example I'm going to give is there is this very inspiring video of a high
• 1:05:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: Filming was like, go, I, go, I, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:05:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: And this kid walked up to him, quite boy.
• 1:05:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: I was like, I'm gonna punch you in the face.
• 1:05:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: And they could respond to it.
• 1:05:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: You'll get in trouble.
• 1:05:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: And the dude said, so, talk back.
• 1:05:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: So this and punch them.
• 1:05:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Good.
• 1:05:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right?
• 1:05:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: So like, that is, and this can be in anything, right?
• 1:05:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: Americans are terrified that if you are late on your taxes or even future exemptions, you're gonna be immediately get thrown in jail.
• 1:05:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: They can't do it to all of us, right?
• 1:05:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: So it really, really comes down to organizing, right?
• 1:05:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: At the same time, a general strike would take about two years to plan and kick off, but
• 1:05:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: They cannot control us.
• 1:05:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: And they're not controlled by force.
• 1:05:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: And from a military perspective, I always tell people, and this was my real job as a captain in the army was to study a population and then advise where the guns were.
• 1:06:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: And in America, we have half a billion guns, and nobody knows where they are.
• 1:06:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: So I call it weapons herd immunity.
• 1:06:15
  [SPEAKER_03]: You do not have to go get a gun.
• 1:06:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because if this was my job to someone was going to do military operations in the United States, I would literally have to be like, man, you have to approach every single person as though they were hostile.
• 1:06:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, easy way to sort Americans, and every house is though it's extremely armed.
• 1:06:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: 12.
• 1:06:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, right, if people's like worst anxieties come to light, great.
• 1:06:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: At 8% of the population, we overwhelm the military.
• 1:06:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: They won't even take on that fight.
• 1:06:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: We beat in the revolutionary war, we beat the most technologically advanced empire on the earth because every American citizen, straightaway, men, had a gun, and that has not changed.
• 1:07:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
• 1:07:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like we have so much more combat experience in our civilian population, in our veteran population, then they have in the military.
• 1:07:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: And we taught them their jobs.
• 1:07:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 1:07:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, like, you know, I call veterans the fifth estate.
• 1:07:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like, that's why he's trying to use the military always to really piss off American citizens at veterans and the military.
• 1:07:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's kind of working a little bit.
• 1:07:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: But like, the military has been holding him at bay and the military, in my opinion, is a cult, but it answers to the constitution, not to the president.
• 1:07:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, so maybe a good place to wrap up is they're not, they're not winning, you know, well, they're done.
• 1:08:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: This has been very much cult in and game since he took office this time.
• 1:08:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I don't, you know, there's this stereotype that cults like keep you by force.
• 1:08:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's actually the opposite.
• 1:08:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: be coerced and manipulate you to make you want to stay.
• 1:08:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: But this is a bit you want to be gone.
• 1:08:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: This happened to me in the coal and they aren't yet rid of you fast enough.
• 1:08:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, right?
• 1:08:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: So the first administration, right?
• 1:08:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: It felt like, okay, a cult is running the government.
• 1:08:34
  [SPEAKER_03]: This time, it feels like we were all just forced into the cult of America, right?
• 1:08:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: The president writes copies
• 1:08:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: of any cult in history or any dictatorship that could survive with two thirds of the adult's population being adamantly against it.
• 1:08:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: because I'm not.
• 1:08:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and keep in mind everybody listening that on no Kings Day, which is going to be March 28th, if we can get that three, I think it's 3.5% of us, that's that threshold that says an autocracy cannot survive.
• 1:09:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we came close last time, but we didn't get there.
• 1:09:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: So show up, and I think more people will show up, and then I also just want to throw in there before we go.
• 1:09:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's, you know, community is so important.
• 1:09:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And people don't think about that when it's about fighting fascism.
• 1:09:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, that like Park Rose permaculture is always talking about indivisible sign-up for your local guide, and it seems surprising, but it isn't taking care of community.
• 1:09:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: What can you do?
• 1:09:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: So if you're somebody who is afraid of knocking on doors and campaigning for a candidate, you can go,
• 1:09:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: collect some cans of food at the grocery store and take them to your local home, the shelter, or donate clothes, or donate your time, or something because the strong communities are the ones and I know that you pointed this out.
• 1:09:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Strong communities are not gonna be overtaken by autocracy and fascism.
• 1:10:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: And because we are all like you said, everybody's just like online all the time and I think COVID, the pandemic really fucked things up for so many people.
• 1:10:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: just getting back in your community and like when I go out, when I go to the grocery store, when I go do my thing anywhere.
• 1:10:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: I always like to engage and be friendly with people, and it's in part.
• 1:10:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's kind of my personality.
• 1:10:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: I've always done that, but I also think in terms of, I want people to feel like we're a community.
• 1:10:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: I want them to know, hey, I have your back.
• 1:10:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: I like what you're wearing, you know, it's like, how many times do I go to the grocery store and compliment someone on their perfume if it smells like, I mean, I don't like, but if I see something like the other day, there was this woman and she, she was very thin, she was a black woman, but so I don't believe she was holding up the pit crack.
• 1:10:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: That could be wrong on this, but she was very thin and she was wearing this like, you know, really tight outfit and I just looked at her and I said, in my next life, I'll have your
• 1:11:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: We all, like, you know, it was a couple of us and we started laughing, and I like to kind of get conversations going with people if I can, doesn't matter what the subject is, but like, you know, bringing it back to community.
• 1:11:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I just like, what do you emphasize that?
• 1:11:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, one of the things we have lost in so many ways is just walkable, connected communities, you know, and when my husband retired from the army, we drove around all of the United States and an RV and picked where we wanted to live and picked the best place and what is it?
• 1:11:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: It is a walkable community.
• 1:11:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
• 1:11:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: you have those encounters, and like you can't leave your house without maybe running into someone in the community that you know.
• 1:11:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's these kind of like accident.
• 1:11:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: build community, right?
• 1:11:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: Everything can't be scheduled.
• 1:11:52
  [SPEAKER_03]: It can't be like it has to all blend into each other.
• 1:11:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: Something else that you were talking about and we talked about a lot and my protest was like, everyone doesn't have the same job being a revolution in a pushback or in a war.
• 1:12:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: right like I was never the leader the commander out front on the intelligence officer really good getting all the information and now it building platforms and speaking and calling people to come in so that's where I focused my activism right like money raising money on good at that which brings me to another thing was like in order to do the little protests that I did I had to be willing to
• 1:12:36
  [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, fortunately, the community really helped out, but like, organizing takes money and, you know, something from even tracking like terrorist networks is the finance year is an important person.
• 1:12:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 1:12:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: In a pushback.
• 1:12:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so we all think we would die for our country.
• 1:12:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: We all think that, you know, getting out and protesting is great, but like sometimes you just need to write a check to the ACLU.
• 1:13:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: especially going back to like us middle-aged white women, right?
• 1:13:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: Like Starbucks is still in business.
• 1:13:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: So we still have disposable income.
• 1:13:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: So when you can, write a check to organization.
• 1:13:11
  [SPEAKER_03]: So for the no-king's protest, there's like a travel fund to help bring in all of the speakers that they want to bring in because these kinds of things are expensive.
• 1:13:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: To plan an event on the national mall, cost about half a million dollars.
• 1:13:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
• 1:13:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:13:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was involved in doing that for an event in ERA in 2014 and we didn't even have much of a budget at all.
• 1:13:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so we couldn't afford the speaker so I know exactly what you're talking about.
• 1:13:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so, you know, just double down on like figure out what your privileges, what your skills are, and then go figure out what everyone else is are in your community, and then, you know, get involved locally.
• 1:13:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, and that was, that was the final thing that I had said you mentioned that you might have been confused that local government is what breaks, right,
• 1:14:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: broke the Brazilian dictatorship with local politicians doing local things for their constituents, even for themselves, even local corruption.
• 1:14:17
  [SPEAKER_03]: Help break a dictator.
• 1:14:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:14:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: Great.
• 1:14:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: So getting involved locally.
• 1:14:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: And if you are worried about fair and free elections, educate yourself on elections and then go sign up to help with your local elections.
• 1:14:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Right?
• 1:14:33
  [SPEAKER_03]: Because again, America cannot be controlled by force, right?
• 1:14:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: They do not even have this, you know, the civil servants for the federal government to run the country.
• 1:14:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: you know like exactly we don't have on election in November we have 6000 plus elections around the nation run by states there's no way to cancel them door and and so and that applies to everything in America you know I keep hearing the checks and balances are gone like nobody can even list what all the checks and
• 1:15:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: is the opposite of dictatorship, built into the process.
• 1:15:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I always say on our military bases, the guns are kept in one place, and the ammunition is kept in a completely separate place.
• 1:15:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: We do that on purpose.
• 1:15:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, there's no such thing as the police in America.
• 1:15:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's hundreds, thousands of different municipalities, right?
• 1:15:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: And you can't just snap and fertilize them.
• 1:15:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: So,
• 1:15:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Getting involved in your local community in literally any way that it appeals to you is so important right now.
• 1:15:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: And skate's right.
• 1:15:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god.
• 1:15:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I just, you know, and I keep saying about the elections, too.
• 1:15:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's like red states want their elections.
• 1:16:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, they do.
• 1:16:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: They want to keep their jobs.
• 1:16:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: So he does not have the power.
• 1:16:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's trying to project the power has always been with the people.
• 1:16:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
• 1:16:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: And at any point, like we, the people can rise up in any number of different ways.
• 1:16:18
  [SPEAKER_03]: Pushback hard for elections, know that it's not going well for them and that forcing people to be in a cult is just a recipe for disaster.
• 1:16:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I'm just so happy that I had the opportunity to talk to you and I'm people like you and Park Rose permaculture.
• 1:16:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's all these women that I know who are doing amazing things and I'm grateful for you and I want everyone to follow you.
• 1:16:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: So this is where I want you to just go crazy and tell everybody all about where you are and your books and all that where you can find you.
• 1:16:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: So online, I am called knitting cult lady.
• 1:16:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: I knit and wear phenomenal outfits and talk about cults and tyrants and bad guys.
• 1:17:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it is a wild time to be an expert on the bad guy.
• 1:17:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: I pretty much just do the news these days.
• 1:17:10
  [SPEAKER_03]: We're in week 60 of the Trump administration, by the way, if anyone else is counting.
• 1:17:16
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm just trying to help us understand what we're going through right now.
• 1:17:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think I'm pretty well placed for that.
• 1:17:24
  [SPEAKER_03]: You can find me on YouTube, on Substack, on TikTok, and on Instagram.
• 1:17:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: And I have two books.
• 1:17:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, on cultured is a story, both of them are on audio.
• 1:17:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: You can listen on Spotify premium or anywhere else you get your audio books.
• 1:17:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: It is a story that shows you how people will do almost anything to fit into their voluntary groups.
• 1:17:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think it helps us really understand cult mentality and culting of America is the tactics book.
• 1:17:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: And if you have ever been under extremism, you might find the workbook, unculture yourself.
• 1:17:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: These can all be found on my social media where we have a very fun time or anywhere you buy your books very cool Well, thank you again, Daniela not only for what you're doing out there.
• 1:18:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate it, but for being a guest on this show
• 1:18:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much for having me and my, I also say, I am coming to New York City on the 14th and Hollywood on the 31st.
• 1:18:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: So, look at you.
• 1:18:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
• 1:18:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: On social media.
• 1:18:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm traveling around on book tour right now so you can potentially come out and see us and we have lots of fun.
• 1:18:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Very good.
• 1:18:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: So everyone follow her and thank you again, Danielle.
• 1:18:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: We'll probably talk again.
• 1:18:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: I hope so.
• 1:18:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much, Kimberly.
• 1:18:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
• 1:18:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Take care.