Latest / The Steep Stuff Podcast / #83 - Bailey Kowalczyk & The Steep Stuff Podcast 1 year Celebration Party

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#83 - Bailey Kowalczyk & The Steep Stuff Podcast 1 year Celebration Party · The Steep Stuff Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, fam?
• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, james Lauriello, and I'm so excited to bring you guys our one-year anniversary celebration episode from this past Saturday at the Colorado Running Company.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: If you didn't happen to be there in person, you'll get to catch it on the pod, with none other than Miss Bailey Kowalczyk, the three-time back-to-back-to-back RUT 28K champion, and so much more joined us on the pod.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: What a fun conversation.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: It was really fun to finally get to meet bailey and mogli.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Big shout out to mogli, um, and uh, yeah, just welcome her into the community you know the colorado springs running community and just have a chat.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: We we got pretty deep into bailey's college years.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: We talked about her years at clemson, what it was like growing up in upstate new york as well, um, being surrounded by just so many cool mountain ranges and the Catskills.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: They had a Roddex and the Greens as well.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: From Vermont.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: We dove deep as well into racing the Golden Trail and dealing with injury Her first sacrum injury that Bailey had when she broke her sacrum at the Bark Trail Mountain Race.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: We got into Deep in the Golden Trail.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: We talked about some of her plans for the future there, as well as plans at Broken Arrow and trying to qualify for Worlds in 2025 and get back on that Worlds team.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: What it was like as well getting into joining the Worlds teams and competing it in, trying to compete it in Innsbruck and dealing with having to drop from that race and all these different things.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: It was a super fun episode.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: I think the audience took a ton away from it.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: It was fun to ask Bailey all these questions in front of a live audience and get questions back from them and feedback for Bailey.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was such a blast If you were there in person.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: I just want to genuinely thank all of you from the bottom of my heart.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: It really did mean so much to me to finally get to do this in person and just get to have everyone from the community out.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: It was a massive success and, yeah, I can't wait to do it again and it was just a blast.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: So, without further ado, I'll stop rambling.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: We'll get into more stuff in the show notes, more thank yous and stuff like that.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: But yeah, here's bailey kowalczyk.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Enjoy, guys.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: It's time.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, we are live People, earth, listen up.
• 3:17
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• 3:23
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• 3:29
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• 3:37
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• 3:41
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• 3:51
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• 3:55
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• 4:01
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• 4:03
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• 4:06
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• 4:08
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• 4:11
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• 4:14
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• 4:16
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• 4:18
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• 4:19
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• 4:21
  Speaker 2: Enjoy what's up guys, welcome.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: Welcome back to the.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: Steep Stuff Podcast.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, james Lauriello, and today we've got a banger of an episode for you.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: None other than Bailey Kowalczyk, who's sitting three feet away from me, is on the podcast.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: So excited to have you on.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: How are you doing, bailey?
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: How are you doing?
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: I'm super stoked to be here.
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's awesome to be in person.
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: I've never done this format before, so happy to chat.
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, sweet.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, me either.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: So this is going to be a new one.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: It's kind of fun.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: Thank you all the audience for coming.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: Guys, this means the world to me.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: This is our one year, which you all know.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: This is our one year anniversary for the pod, so I figured we have one of the biggest names in SubUltra to come join us.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: Um, you know, like three-time rut 28k champion, um, world's team, like just belly's, had such an incredible resume, so excited to, uh, finally have a conversation with you.
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: Sorry, I'm talking to them and I'm talking to you.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: We're all here together.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: I love it all, right, so maybe uh for the audience, maybe give me uh like the five minute elevator pitch on where you're from, your background, your relationship with running.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: Maybe stop when you get to Clemson.
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: Okay, so my name is Bailey Kowalczyk.
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: I'm from Boulder, colorado, by way of upstate New York, so I grew up in upstate New York.
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: I ran track both in high school and then beyond.
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: But, um, I come from a family of some runners and and I think I've always been drawn to the sport in ways.
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: I played soccer as a kid and this the ball part of the sport never appealed to me.
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: It was literally just running laps, and the best part of practice was when somealed.
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: To me, it was literally just running laps, and the best part of practice was when someone would do something wrong and I would get to run the penalty lap around the field and I think that's kind of where the seed was planted.
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: But that just sprouted in upstate New York it's such a big culture.
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: It's kind of like the high school programs are basically college programs.
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: So it was.
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: It was a bit of a pressure cooker, but at the time it allowed me to fall more and more in love with the sport, which ultimately led me to Division One running at Clemson University.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: Super cool.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, your background is so cool, so we've got some audience members in here.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: Shout out Joey and Rose from upstate New York.
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: They're from Highland New York, so just a little bit further south, you're like north of Albany, right, yeah, so I say Saratoga Springs area, but Saratoga was our rival, so close enough.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: Do you feel like because you've got the Catskills, you've got the Adirondacks, you've got theills, you've got the Adirondacks, you got the greens, you got the whites like that beautiful area between Vermont, new Hampshire, upstate New York, like?
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: Is that like an emphasis on you or like a kind of a push to like find this love for the mountains?
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I grew up, we spent the weekends in the Adirondacks, so I grew up skiing there, running there.
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: It was basically we would go on these family hikes where we would all hike up and then my dad would just sprint down the mountain.
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: So I would, I mean, my only option was to keep up.
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: So I ran as hard as I could down and I think I think that led to I mean one a little bit of a lack of fear when it comes to terrain and running down steep stuff.
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: I just got really used to being comfortable on that kind of terrain and I never thought of it as running.
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: To me, running was on the roads, on the track, running these ridiculously fast paces.
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: It was never more than that.
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: And then, you know, as time evolved, I discovered that you could kind of put these passions together my passion for being outside, being on the trails, but also that passion for running and competing.
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: And I've blended that and now have, like, found the happiest place ever.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: So what was it like?
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: High school getting recruited by because, like D1, that's a huge deal, you know, like that's the pointy tip of the spear for collegiate athletes, you know to go to a D1, especially at Clemson.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: What was that like for you, getting recruited, and like what was that recruitment process like?
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: Was there any other schools you were looking at?
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: Like, how did Clemson become the one?
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there were probably five or six schools that I was looking at.
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: It was a really stressful process.
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: In the moment it felt like it was the end of the world, like if I didn't make the right decision my whole life would be just in disarray, which, looking back on, is a little bit silly.
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: But at the time it was so exciting to be able to further my career, to be able to run against the best of the best.
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: I mean, I wanted to go.
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: I wanted to go somewhere warmer.
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: So for me, I was looking at schools that were South.
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: I don't know why I didn't ever think West, but I looked at schools that were in the South, um, so I think they were like Virginia.
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: I looked at North Carolina um, just the standard kind of ACC schools.
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: Um, clemson stood out because they had an amazing coach that seems to care about the holistic person behind the athlete, and that was something that was important to me at the time.
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: Unfortunately, the entire coaching staff left two weeks before I went to school, so that kind of changed the entire experience that I had at Clemson.
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: I didn't end up working with the coach that I had kind of done the research to go there for, but yeah, that was kind of what went into that decision.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: Now, college was a difficult time for you, like really difficult.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Can you maybe open up a little bit about like the pressure to maintain like a certain weight and like what that does to you as like a competitive athlete and how it just breaks you down?
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: Like what was that situation like for you, especially with your coaching staff?
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that was one of the most surprising things for me.
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: I knew that there were undertones of unhealthy things happening in this space, but it didn't feel like something that would ever happen to me when I went into college.
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: My coach in high school was so healthy and I felt really supported by him just in the body that I was in, because that's the body that was performing Um.
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: But at Clemson there was we had to get our um body fat percentage checked every week, which is a little interesting because I don't really think it changes every week, but we got our body fat percentage tested every week.
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: We had to set goals for what that number would be, which, as a 17 year old, how do you know how to set those goals?
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: We were misguided into what those numbers should look like.
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: So for females, most of the numbers would require losing your period, which impacts bone health, and none of that was told to us in the time.
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: So I think you know I was setting these huge goals to get to a certain body fat percentage, that that wasn't where my body was happy, and then also on the side, having these conversations with the coaching staff where numbers were thrown out If you lose X amount of weight, then you could be an NCAA champion, you could do this.
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: So there's kind of that carrot in front of you where it's like I trust these people, I want to be an NCAA champion, I want to be the best that I possibly can be.
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: I still had these aspirations to go professional after college and I think, um, I just wanted to do anything it took to get there.
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: So I made micro changes, I made adjustments to try to get to these goals that we had set, and then it spiraled out of control, both mentally and physically.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: And how did that end with you at Clemson?
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: Did you just leave the program, or like what happened after that?
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: I was actually medically removed from the program.
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: So I became too healthy, too unhealthy to continue running at all, and I was removed from school for a few months to undergo treatment for anorexia, which is a very dramatic way to kind of end my.
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: I didn't know that I was ending my college career at the time, but I ultimately ended up transferring because the healthy minded me figured out that it was not a great idea to go put myself back in the same situation that that instigated this spiral.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: What did that do to your relationship with running Like, were you just done after that or yeah, I thought I was retiring at the age of 19.
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: I thought I was retiring from the sport never to run again.
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: I moved to Boulder, colorado, which is a really ironic place to move to when you're retiring from running.
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: Um, and I think that's where the water got a little bit more.
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: It was, you know.
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: I got to Boulder and I was like I don't know how I'm supposed to identify myself.
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: I had to finish school, so I threw myself headfirst into school.
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: Um, finished seventh in my class there, which is like I really married school, and I think that's kind of what took over the running identity.
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: For a while it was like, okay, I'm just going to pour everything I have into school.
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: But there was still.
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: You know, I'm staring out my window watching the CU team run by and getting sad every time I see runners, which is a lot of the time.
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: Um, and then just spending my life like hiking every peak in Boulder and skiing and really throwing myself into that outdoor the non just pure running side of things yeah so you moved to Boulder and how long did it take?
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: how many years before you were like you should do a jog, or did you meet andy like and how did that like come together?
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: Because I know andy rack wacker was a big influence for you andy wacker was a huge influence for me, I would say so.
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: I I came to boulder probably I was still jogging, maybe like two to three miles here and there and it was just.
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: It was very unfulfilling running, I would say.
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: I would say I was there for probably about a year before my parents motivated me to sign up for the Boulder Track Club, which was like very low commitment.
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: One day a week you meet with this group and I was.
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: It just took a hold.
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: So fast.
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: I was like oh, I'm a competitive runner again.
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: This is so fun, like such a good community.
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: It felt healthy.
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: I was competing again and that's kind of where I met andy through that and decided to kind of take it up a little bit like, okay, I'll have andy coach me for a bit and I'll compete on the track again.
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: And in my head I was still a road track athlete, so that's kind of the way that I was still going with that.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: Was your first trail race, btmr.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: Yes, it was the audience was like we're in Colorado Springs.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: Your first trail race was BTMR.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: Uh, what was it 2019.
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: 2019.
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: Yes, it was so dramatic and Bortrell.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: Mountain Race for people that don't know.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: That's you know what is it.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: It's so dramatic and bar trail.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: Mountain race for people that don't know.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: That's you know what is it.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: It's a half marathonish distance.
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: Three thirty three to thirty six hundred feet of climbing and you broke your sacrum in the race.
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: Right, yeah, talk about that, yeah, so, um, yeah.
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: So one thing led to another.
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: With andy, I quickly found trails.
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: It was a very quick like.
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: This was like a three month process he somehow convinced me to run a half marathon up a mountain, which for a 1500 runner is kind of a big deal.
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: Um, bar trail.
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: I still have a bone to pick with that trail, like I'm still trying to figure out the mountain here, um, but it's such a fun race it.
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: I was just so excited to be able to to race on trails and race something super fun and blend these worlds.
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: I would say so on the way up the mountain because it's just a simple out and back.
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: On the way up I started to feel this weird back pain and I was like, well, maybe this is how trail running is, maybe it's supposed to be really painful.
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: Like maybe my kidneys are failing, I don't know.
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: Like this does not feel comfortable, but nothing ever feels that comfortable when you're running.
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: But then I turned around and I went to go down and I love downhills.
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: So I just started sprinting and all of a sudden my leg gave out and I was like rolling down the trail and that happened like six times.
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: I mean a lot of part of me is like why didn't I stop?
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: But it's not the most logistically sound race to stop and.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: I would have had to like still make it to the bottom.
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: So, and I was in second.
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: So the competitive part of me was like, no, you're gonna keep going, maybe just scale it back a little.
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: But even scaled back, like my leg was giving out, it was super painful.
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: I was like then I was like bleeding everywhere.
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: Like this is so bizarre, this sport is really weird.
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: Um, but I got second was super painful.
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: I was like then I was like bleeding everywhere.
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: Like this is so bizarre, this sport is really weird.
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: Um, but I got second was super happy about that, and then I couldn't walk and had 25 stitches and half of my knees are still on the mountain.
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: It's um was a very dramatic start.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: But I remember the first thought, like, even though it was the most ridiculous pain I've ever had, I was like I'm doing that again whenever this is over, I'm doing that again so this is like right before the pandemic too, yeah, and then like so this is what I gotta ask you because, looking at your like results and stuff, like in 2020 you went to go compete at the golden trail world series it was the stage race, right, can you talk about that?
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: Because, like, jim was in that race, like so many like household names that we have now that like Rachel Drake, like so many people, what was that?
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: like, and how did?
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: you qualify for that thing.
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was interesting, so I raced, um.
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: I raced maybe once more that year after I was injured and then the pandemic obviously happened and they, once it was in that weird zone where like people were, you know, like a little bit less freaked out, but not quite to the point of traveling.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: They did this competition kind of like a golden ticket competition from your own doorstep.
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: So basically they were like five different routes in the U S, like FKT routes, and if you got the FKT then you qualified to go to this grand finale stage race in um Azores islands in Portugal, and I got the skyline traverse FKT in Boulder and that's um.
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: That's what got me there was I just went out and ran as hard as I possibly could against myself, which was so fun.
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: I think the pandemic actually helped me love the sport more, just me versus myself versus the trails, and so that qualified me and Jim qualified through.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: Arizona or something like that.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it was.
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: Arizona and then Enchantments was one of them, so I know that's how Rachel Drake qualified, but it was a great group of people and I think that's kind of what got me hooked on Golden Trail was that stage race.
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: I was definitely not ready for a stage race, but it was still like such a great experience.
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: People would go out there, compete for at least a few of the days and just see what the international side of the sport is like.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: What did you think Like?
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: What did you think about like competing internationally, like it was just like just a level up, was that?
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, because Golden Trail is like as hard as it gets right.
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say it wasn't the same, as I mean, I've obviously competed internationally a lot since then and because of COVID there wasn't the fan base that you usually see.
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: But I saw in the athletes, I saw the passion.
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: These people were bred to trail run and I think that was so exciting for me.
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: I was like I'm coming back and I'm racing these people again and I'm going to perfect this game.
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: This is so fun.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: I've got to ask you, because this is a big part of your career did that open the door for you to join the Solomon team going there?
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so your career, like, did that open the door for you to join the Solomon team going there?
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so that that kind of that opened.
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: I think the just getting the golden ticket opened the Solomon US door and I was on the team kind of loosely for a year and then that solidified the deal and I was with Solomon for three years total yeah, and that was a pretty big part of your career.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: Like 20 was a 21 through well, 20 through 23.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: Because 2022 was probably like one of the biggest years of your career.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: You took first american and series and all was that life-changing for you.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: Like going to series and all and like getting fifth place and like the most competitive race on the planet, like yeah, that was.
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: I mean, that was like a dream day.
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: I feel like 2022 yeah, I'd say, 2022 is when things took off and I feel like it was like everything really came together that year and, yeah, sears and all was.
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: I still dream about that day and talk about it.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: I want to hear like, what was it like?
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: Did you know you were in like fifth place?
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: Like were you hunting other ladies?
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Like what was that?
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: How did that race unplay for you?
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: I knew I was in fifth place, but I kind of was holding on for dear life and couldn't believe it.
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: It was a little bit of like I know where I am in this race.
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: Don't ask questions, just keep running as hard as you can.
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: Um, and I've had races feel like that since then, but maybe on less of a big stage, if that makes sense.
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: But that was I love.
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: I mean, I love steep terrain and everyone makes Sears and all sound like it's a road race.
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: It's not, it's a double vk to start.
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: So I think that's where, like, I felt so good.
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: I had some issues in the beginning of that year and didn't actually start training until June, and so I think I actually thrive off of like being a little undercooked, which sounds really weird, like I didn't perfect the training.
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: Everyone's talking about all this data going into the race and I'm like I'm not prepared for this race at all and honestly, it was like one of the best races in my life and yeah.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: Can you talk about, maybe, the course a little bit, just because you said it starts off with the W double VK and then you're done.
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: But it's a net uphill so you gain maybe seven ish thousand feet and you lose like three thousand um.
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: So it is like a fast person's course.
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: It's very smooth, um.
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: I would say you kind of want to be a jack-of-all-trades, but I think, like the road part of me did help, like having speed helps on the top because you're running really fast, but you also like can't just take a pure road runner and expect them to run a wbk.
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: So it's kind of fun to have that arsenal.
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: Like I know how to climb but I also know how to run pretty well and like you put them together and yeah, can you talk about like how mentally it is to race a lot of these, especially like on the ladies side.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: like you especially doing the golden trail series, you start to learn people's style.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: Some people are really good on the uphill, some people are really good downhillers.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: You see, like how you can kind of apply your skills to to beat them but like at the same time run your own race.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: How do you go into a race like that, thinking about it like what is your MO?
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: Is it just run my own race or is it like I need to be strategic and put myself in this race from the beginning?
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: So it's a fine balance.
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: I think it depends on the race a little bit, but for the most part I kind of have to put the blinders on a bit.
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: Um, I think what I've noticed is that if I focus too much on what everybody else around me is doing, I get so caught up in that and lose focus on the actual race, like for me.
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: I mean, for me, there's a lot of my past that that makes me so grateful just to get to a start line and be healthy and be able to compete, and so reminding myself of that allows me to be in the moment.
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: And then it'd be silly if I'm like, yeah, I'm ignoring everyone that's there when people I tend to like to take it out hot.
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: So I usually just go with and this is obviously for races that are like three-ish hours and less but I tend to go with whoever's going out in front, and so it's like I don't know how much strategy is in it as much as like hang on for dear life, settle in and then hang on for dear life.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: It's a very Eurocentric way of racing.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: It is yeah, and I think that's why, like, I try not to overthink it, and I think that's why, like I've had, you know, I haven't like fully knocked everything out of the park, but I've had success in Europe and it's um.
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: I mean, like Nick and I did the um race preview for Zagama, I think you were both of our picks to like either get on the podium or win that damn race.
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: I ran like three quarters of the race in second and third place, and then all of a sudden it was like the wheels were falling off.
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: But that's.
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: That's like an example of a race where it's like maybe there's ways that I could have done things a little bit differently yeah.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's such a weird, especially like I don't know technicality.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: It seems like you're so good technically.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, we can talk about the run we'll get into that in a little bit but like, yeah, what is it about?
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: Technical running that like you just like really enjoy it or like because you're very good at it I really enjoy it.
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: I I mean, I think it's important for trail runners to be versatile.
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: I think it's you never.
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: I mean it's just nice to be able to like.
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: If world's qualifiers is non-technical one year, great, I feel like I can compete.
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: If it's technical, I feel like I can compete.
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: I do like the technicality better.
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: I think part of it is what I found myself enjoying in Boulder and what I train on a lot, but then also, like I think part of it does kind of in my subconscious, speak to the Adirondacks are not untechnical, and so I think I just got really comfortable on that and I also realized that there's a lot of women that aren't good at that.
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: So it's kind of, I mean it's fun to know that I have a leg up on this terrain, so then I want to work on it more and then it becomes even more of a skillset.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: John.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: It's interesting to me because when I had Johnny on the podcast like that is the most dialed human I've ever met.
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: Well, that's the other thing is that when you have to chase him down mountains.
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: It's like life or death.
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: I mean.
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: He obviously slows down for me to keep up, but I feel like he's given me a lot of skills to be able to thrive on that terrain.
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: He's hands down one of the best downhillers in the world Easily and I think that allows me to kind of feed off of that.
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: I like to be in good company and I think that that's um really benefited me over the years.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: Let's talk Boulder.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: So you, you live with other athletes that are professional athletes.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: Is it, especially now that you've been there for so long, do you feel like, if you're going through a period of injury or you're not running, at that point in time do you have FOMO?
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: Like is it hard to post stuff on Strava all the time?
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: Like I always ask this to people that live in Boulder because it's like there, it's like there's just so many athletes there and there's just like I feel, like to me I would feel pressure.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: How does that feel?
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: I would say I've evolved.
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: Um, back in 2019, 2020, I had the sacrum injury.
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: Um, I actually ended up breaking the other side of the sacrum right after, which is so unfortunate, and I haven't been injured since then until now.
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: But that double whammy like I had just a terrible mindset.
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: It was like everyone else gets to do this.
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: Woe is me.
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: It's really hard to feel motivated.
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: Like I had nothing to say on social media.
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: It feels like a weakness.
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: So I felt like I had to hide it from my team, my athlete manager, like it felt like something that I didn't want to share, like it's a weak part of me.
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: Everyone else is doing all these fun things and now I think I've grown to the point that it's like, okay, every athlete gets injured.
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: That's part of the gamble that we work with.
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's part of like we're testing our bodies to the edge so often that obviously things are going to break down here and there and that's that's natural and being able to own that as a sign of maturity and and yes, it's still hard to see everybody doing all these things, but it's also there's so many other ways to get outside and to to still be connected to the reason.
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: You know that we do this thing in the first place, and um, so that's kind of been grounding for me.
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: But I would say Strava does always make things more challenging.
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: It's like I I've grown in that sense too, but it still is like, oh, this person's doing that, why am I doing this?
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: that's I follow five people on strava and like, and I don't really ever go on it like I'm very careful about I don't know, I don't.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: It's not that it's fomo, but it's like I don't want to see what anybody else is doing because I want to be very focused on my own thing.
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: It's easy to compare.
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: It's very, especially when you're like I know this person's race schedule is the same as mine.
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: I'm doing this, they're doing that.
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: There's so many different ways to get to a start line healthy and fit.
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: You don't need to do what the other person is doing.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: Sure, that's very true.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's crazy, like the Strava thing with social media.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: I was going to ask you about this Like, do you find it hard as a professional athlete to balance, like having to put stuff out there about your life and like what your training is like, and all that on Instagram while also training?
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: Like, what is that dichotomy like for you?
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: I kind of enjoy it, weirdly.
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: I think for me I like the bigger part of um.
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: I mean, for me it's really important to inspire the community, inspire younger people, inspire woman, inspire anybody that's going through a hard thing, and so it almost serves as motivation.
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: When I share things like, it's like okay, someone's going to read this and be impacted by it, hopefully in a positive way, and feel understood and feel like they're not the only person going through this.
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: So I think when I share things on Instagram, like, it makes me feel more connected.
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: But there are moments where it's like I had a really bad race.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: I don't necessarily want like I shouldn't have to explain it to anyone.
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: I don't owe it to anyone, but at the same time, I don't want to be the person that has a bad race and can only talk about good things on Instagram.
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: So it does.
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: There is a little bit of a pressure, but it it doesn't feel like a hard balance for me.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: I like that.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: It's interesting because I see a lot of people struggle with it, so it's cool to see someone actually, for once, give me an answer.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: That's like I like it.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: It's not that hard for me.
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's cool, I would say.
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: I don't have a million trolls, though, so I think it would be harder if I had people in my messages all the time telling me that I'm a terrible person.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, my gosh that would be complicated, but that's not my experience.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: Do you what I?
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: My experience.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: Do you find as like your like platform is elevated in the sport you've gotten a lot of followers like?
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: Do you find it like, especially in boulder?
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: like are you constantly saying hi to people on the trails?
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: Like is that a little weird.
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: Like people recognize my dog before they recognize me that is the bizarre thing, like how many people know my dog and I couldn't tell you who the person is.
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, um, so I guess they're saying hi to me indirectly through him, but it doesn't it doesn't weird me out too much.
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: I I think if you told me that that would be happening 10 years ago, I'd be like you're absolutely nuts, that's.
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: I'm retired, actually.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: But um, yeah, it's, it's kind of fun in boulder yeah, well, even like, if you're in like overseas, like in europe, like do the euros go a little crazy?
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: Like when they see like the americans, like when, like hey, can I get a photo with you At events.
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: Yes, I would say it's nice when you're, when you choose the right people to be around, though, because if you're walking around with, like, jim or Courtney- to Walter.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: It's like yeah, I don't care about me.
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: So you just got to choose your company wisely.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: OK, ok, that's super cool.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about the rut, so you're back to back to back to back champion at the rut, 28k, something like that, yeah, I've done it four times and I won it three times yeah.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: So nick just raced it last year and he told me it was like one of the most technical courses, if not the most right most technical questions what is it that you have figured?
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: Well, I have two questions for this, so you can.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: We'll go with the first one first.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: What is it have you figured out about?
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: Like to continue to dominate that race?
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I love that race so much it is.
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: Yes, I would agree that it's one of the most technical races in the US.
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: What have I figured out?
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: I think a lot of it has come with developing athletic maturity.
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: Part of it, because I think the first two times I ran it I absolutely exploded by the end and was just hanging on for dear life and was kind of lucky that I had created this gap in the field.
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: But, um, so part of it is that.
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: And then the other part is like fueling, hydrating, and these aren't even related to the technical components of the course.
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: But I think a lot of the reason that the rut has only gone faster for me is because I learned how to fuel in races and actually, um, like, still have energy at the end and still be able to run, because it finishes with like a thousand foot climb and descent, so you kind of you have to stay alive for that, yeah, and that's after like this, like 6 000 foot climb or something I don't know the exact numbers, but it's, it's big going to lone peak and coming off the back side.
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: But, um, I'm not entirely sure.
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: Like, I think the the technicality is just perfect for me.
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: I think it's so similar to what I'm used to navigating that it feels, I mean, it's like running on broken dinner plates, so it's a little weird but something about that, and I don't know what that says about me as a person, but something about that is just so fun.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: Suffering right.
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think I don't know, there's a lot like a lot of women get rattled by, a lot of people get rattled by it, and it doesn't really phase me very much.
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: So I think that that's a big piece to.
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: It is like, and then just the more times you run a course and it's the same course every year, the better you get, although I would say that the downhill, the first three times I ran it it was the same exact time to the second, every single year until this year.
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: I broke the spell this year.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: Okay, Wow.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: So I had Denali on the podcast and she I think she shared the podium with you.
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: She was fourth third.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: Yes, and so, and like, she's proper Alaskan mountain runner, like Mount.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: Marathon and like she's proper alaskan mountain runner, like mount marathon and like she said, like that it's on another level that type of race.
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: so I gotta get out there to go, go play.
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: You really need to, especially given the name of your podcast.
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: It's the steepest, most consistent race I've done in the us.
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: I hear I think the only other one that I hear things about is tmr.
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, um, but I really think that it's I hands down.
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: I think it's the best us race mike foot.
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: That's pretty cool yeah he's got an amazing event.
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: They have an amazing staff, the community.
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: There is kind of what keeps bringing me back, like every year.
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: It's not on my schedule in the beginning of the year.
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: Every year I show up, so it's might happen again this year.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: We'll see okay yeah, so last year was a big year because, like jennner, who's like one of the best, if not probably the best, 50k female athlete, like mountain athlete in the country, came and, like you guys, like it was a highly anticipated matchup, and you beat her.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: Were you thinking about that going into the race or did you just want to win?
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: I mean I always, like I'm human, I think about the people I'm racing, I'm intimidated that's a natural part of the sport.
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: But I kind of thought it was a good course to be able to compete with her, because I know I'm a better downhill runner.
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: But I also in my head feel like she could out-climb me, but not by that much.
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: So I'm like this could be a really good matchup, like it's.
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: It's fun when you're actually competing with someone back and forth and um, that's kind of I.
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: That was kind of the experience for the first maybe 90 minutes or so it was.
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: I mean, I was leading, but she was like there.
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: And then we went down the first technical descent and I kind of lost her and then, like, saw her coming back and it was this fun game of cat and mouse and she did end up taking a wrong turn, but apparently, like it just kind of ended up in the same spot, same spot.
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: So I don't know if she lost time or whatever happened, but, um, I ran, like it was terrifying to feel like she was behind me.
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like, yeah, like that would be really difficult, yeah, but I told myself, if I got to the top first, I'd be fine.
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: Okay, and that's what the experience was.
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: So it was very fun nice.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, like we you know we did a race preview on it it was really fun to preview that one just because, like two heavyweights in a lot of ways like some of the best like you have a sub ultra golden trail series athlete that you know is used to these golden trail series races, and then you have Jennifer, who is more of the 50 K distance, so it was kind of cool to see that match up in between.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: It's fun.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: Um, I want to take it back to New York.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: The first time you qualified for world's team was at breakneck.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: What was that like for you?
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: Cause it's like a homecoming.
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was really fun.
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's not.
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: I had actually never been to that area of New York, so it was really cool to see the terrain there.
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: Breakneck is another really cool race the.
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: The climbs aren't necessarily long, but everything is so punchy and there is technicality.
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: There's even a little bit of scrambling in that race.
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: I had a lot of fun there, um, it was.
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: It was cool because some people that don't usually get to see this world got to come out family-wise, because we still have a lot of extended family out there and my sister's wedding shower was that same weekend so it was cool to be able to like be around family and do this big thing and qualify for another world's team.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: One of the things I wanted to get into was you qualified to go race at Innsbruck for the short course right?
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: It was like the short course marathon distance right.
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: It was yeah long, so that was a really probably a very tough race for you.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: You didn't finish Like how, what happened, Like what, what went down?
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: That was, yeah, yeah, my first and only dnf um, but it wasn't just you like britney charbonneau, like a lot of ladies, had a tough race.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah there's a, there's a little bit of a backstory.
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: Uh, let's hear it.
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah it drama, but I had.
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: So I got sick in January this is like way before worlds was in June.
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: I got sick in January and then had about nine months of like really weird long viral um symptoms and it was super concerning.
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: Like I shouldn't have been racing is what I'm saying?
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: Like I really shouldn't have been at worlds but I made the team.
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: And that's one of those decisions that I'm like Hmm, I think mature athlete me right now would have been like I can't race worlds, like this isn't a good decision.
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: Um, I really like I could hardly run easy runs without my quad shutting off and like my heart rate was like 200.
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: So it was really not a smart decision to show up and that's just full honesty.
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: Um, and the first so like there was like a little climb, little descent, and then this like giant climb and I did the little climb, little descent and was just feeling I mean I wasn't in the worst place, but I was feeling terrible and just feeling like there's no way I'm going to be able to do the rest of this race.
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: But I kept going for like 14 miles and because I knew there was a chairlift.
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: So I was like I'll just run to the top of the lift see what happens.
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: And, um, it just made absolutely no sense.
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: I was like stumbling around all over the place and I knew that, you know, if I finished, my body would be destroyed, my mind would be destroyed either way and, like, that's not the world's experience I wanted and it wouldn't have been either way.
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: So I made a decision in the moment for my body and it still took until, like, the rut was my next my really only like.
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: My next race after June, um was the rotten September.
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: Um, because it just took.
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: I ended up having to take actual time away from running instead of trying to train through this weird thing that I was experiencing.
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: Um, so that's, that was my world experience, which is so unfortunate, and the course is still like.
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: I still want to do that course.
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: It definitely speaks to me, but it was a really tough day.
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: I know a few other people had really tough days as well.
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: I'm hoping for a more successful world adventure.
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: Should I make the team this year?
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: I know we talked a little bit about the potential of Broken Arrow.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: You do want to go back.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: That would be the idea.
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: That is yeah, so I have.
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: I have very simple objectives this year and they are like a little bit longer than what I usually do, but OCC and worlds are like my only two goals for the entire year and with that you have to qualify for a world.
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: So that's where broken arrow 46k comes in um.
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: So right now it's you know, full send to get back on the world's team.
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: Um, I made the classic team back in 2021, but they canceled the world's that year and then the innsbruck team obviously didn't.
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: The race was just like one of the worst experiences of my life and um.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: I am ready.
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I am ready to go back and it's another course.
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: It's in the Pyrenees, it's super steep, like I.
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: I think it's a course that fits me really well, so I'm hoping to get myself back there.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: So with Broken.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: Obviously that's short course for the marathon.
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: You've had some success at Broken Arrow, but it's been a couple of years since you've been back, so are you excited, like if you do go back, you excited to go?
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: back.
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm excited to go back.
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: I've only ever done the 23K there and it was.
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: It was fun.
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: I was, I would say I was like like it was a time of the season that I was like oh my gosh, my legs are about to fall off.
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: And racing at altitude is hard, but I really like it there.
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: It's a good mix of everything.
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: It's got some solid downhill, it's got some really runnable parts and I'm going to do two laps this year.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: It's always funny, I feel like with Broken Arrow, unless you're David Sinclair or Michelino Sincere.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: Whoever's leading the first lap is usually not leading the second lap.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so funny because you've got that one downhill off the ski lift that you're running like probably four-something pace for some people Like it's so fast?
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and that can.
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: If you're not used to running really fast downhill, that will obliterate you, and then the second lap is like a death march.
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: so hoping to avoid that, but yeah, yeah do you think like at some point in time, you'll mix it up with like some shorter stuff, like any circ series, races or anything like that, or vks?
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: I'd love to do circ series.
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: It always falls in the time that I'm competing in europe, so I still want to get to one.
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: Um, um.
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: I feel bad because I'm always like, yes, I'll do this.
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: Just kidding.
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: No, I won't.
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: They're so fun, yeah, so fun looking Um.
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: So, cirque is definitely something I'm interested in.
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: Vks I, I re, I mean I really love like pure uphill FKTs, so I think the idea of a vk sounds cool.
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: Um, I kind of want to try it all.
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: I also am intrigued by longer things.
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: So it's, you know, I I'd like to just be able to do well at all of it and so, yes, I would.
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: I would love to jump in those um things in the.
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: The vk especially is like such an easy thing to, yeah, to jump into.
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: So maybe, maybe this year I'll just find someone when I'm in Europe and just rip the bandaid off.
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: Like the Mont Blanc, one looks sick.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think that it's five o'clock at night, though it's like weird.
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: I know that's the thing is that they're always the day before a race and I really I don't love to sell my soul at 5 pm the day before 50k.
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: That's really challenging.
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: I've done an.
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: I did a VK in Austria and that was super fun.
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: So I do hope to do it again, maybe as an isolated thing.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: What about sub-ultra?
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: Do you like that like keeps you in the sport Because you're like I know you were on the star list for canyons 50k, maybe a little 50k, curious, but like sub-ultra is like your, your kind of, your jam.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: What do?
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: you like so much about it.
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: I like to run fast, and not that ultra runners aren't running fast, but like there's a lot of, um, very bare bones.
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: Like you can just go run as hard as you almost as hard as you can, for, like you know, three ish and there's not as many.
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: Like I don't have to think about a shoe change, I don't have to think about, like, what happens if my feet get wet.
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: I don't care, I'm just going to keep running.
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: It's not 14 hours, so things don't compound.
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: So right now it's kind of fun just to like.
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: It's almost like pure fitness, versus having to like, plan out every single piece and then things that aren't even in your control happen anyway and ruin your race.
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: So it's kind of fun to just have just a bare bones sport, um, and I would say, yeah, I have enjoyed the 50ks I've done and.
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: But there I would say I can see why alters are so different, because there's a lot more variables at play yeah, it doesn't like I don't know.
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: I feel like all that like the science experiment I'm trying to figure out nutrition and just nailing that.
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: Like there's just so much to it that I'm like I just want to go smash myself against a mountain and see how fast I can get up and get down, and it's like it's just very primal.
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: It's a very easy thing to do.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: You're not really thinking, you're just racing yeah, on the, on.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: The topic of racing.
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: What is your relationship like with competition?
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: Are you like an insanely competitive human or like what are you like?
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: Um, I would say I love competition, like I really I think it's fun to be able to compete against the best of the best, and but I'm not driven only by competition.
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: Like, if you told me that I'm never allowed to race again but I can train as much as I want and I can do FKTs and push myself to the max, I'd be, I'd probably be fine, like I'd be happy with that.
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: But I do enjoy the competition.
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: Like it is fun in the moment, uh, but it's not the only reason that I do this sport and I think, like being competitive with myself is sometimes just as fun.
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: But as far as a how I am as a competitor, I like to run scared, so I'd rather have someone chasing me than have someone like next to me the entire time.
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: I really like to run like I'm being chased well, it brings out the best in you.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: yeah, you can get the most out of yourself.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: It's something like weird about the sport where it's like when you're smashing yourself entirely and there's like with other people in competition, like you almost build this like weird camaraderie, like well, you know those people will be friends for life because you just destroyed yourself together.
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you go to a special place with those people, that's right people, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's interesting, it's great sport on earth yeah, oh, I agree, and I think it's fun because there's so many room, there's so many places to grow like this year I'm racing much more 50k length races and we'll see how that goes, but I think it's just.
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: It's fun to be able to explore these things.
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: But the other things are still there in your skill set, like you.
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: Look at someone like killian he can do a hundred miler but then he can go wins years and all, and so it's just fun to be able to like that's.
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: My ultimate goal is to be able to be like a jack of all trades on that topic, like who inspires you in the sport?
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: I?
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: That's a great question.
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: I'm inspired by so many people in this sport.
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: I think there's so many women doing awesome things and also, I mean also men.
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: Um, a lot of my I mean a lot of my friends inspire me.
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: I think I'm trying to think like off the top of my head Abby Hall is a huge inspiration Just seeing her come back from injury and be really honest and vocal about things and also train really hard and be honest about that, and that's that's really fun.
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: Um, Danny Moreno super strong athlete.
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: I think she's also somebody who has just dominated in a bunch of different areas but is also very like.
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: I really appreciate people that are like open about their own experiences and not just, you know, like hiding things or hiding behind.
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: Um, yeah, so those are two people, but I'm really I mean, I'm just inspired by everyone that's out there crushing it, yeah, and especially the women that are like having babies and then coming back and throwing down, like that is so impressive.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: I don't rachel drake.
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: Rachel drake is an absolute animal and a good friend of mine, and so it's all of those people kind of just paving the way for um those behind them, yeah, okay, what's your uh walkout song before a race?
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: We listen to oh shoot, I just thought about this yesterday too.
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: Um, I think right now, off the top of my head, bring them out, okay, you know that's a good one.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's I feel pumped.
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's a good song, sweet.
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: Do you believe in aliens?
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: I don Do you believe in aliens?
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: I don't.
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: Do you believe in Bigfoot?
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: It's a common question.
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: Okay, okay.
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I'm convinced my dad does, but I don't.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: Well, I feel like Adirondacks.
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no he's definitely still searching somewhere.
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: Billy Quall's like thank you so much for coming on.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: The pod're gonna transition to uh audience q a now and appreciate it.
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: Thanks for the conversation thank you so much.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: It's great to be here absolutely all right, steven, you had a question hello, um, so, coming from a track athlete to switching to doing the trails, are you still training on the track often, or are you only trying to do trails?
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: Or do you miss track enough that you find yourself like trying to gravitate and still train there Like do you need it or like where's the balance in that for what you're trying to do with your goals?
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, good question.
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: I would say the key.
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: I guess the key word in that is balance.
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: Like for me, one depends on what race I'm training for, depends on the time of year.
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: I do still do a lot of raw speed work, I would say more so on the roads than on the track, I think.
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: I think my I still have like a mental thing with the track sometimes where it's challenging to want to go sell my soul to it.
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: But, um, but I do really hard, really fast, flat work a lot and I think that lends itself really well to being able to climb fast and just run fast in general.
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: So it's definitely a big part of training, more so in the winter when I'm training for something I like to be really specific.
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: So if I'm training for something super steep like it won't present itself as much, but it's still very much a piece that I still like to go fast.
• 51:02
  Speaker 4: I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about like the races that you describe have so much uphill and for so many people like that's just pure suffering and suckage, but you talk about these races in like such a positive way.
• 51:08
  Speaker 4: I'm wondering if you can talk about like how you view the sort of suffering, or like the the challenging parts of races and running, and also if you have any advice towards like looking at them in a positive way or like giving us advice to like I don't know, yeah, like train differently in those like, especially in Boulder, and like the rut it's so steep and so hard, but you seem to like gravitate towards that.
• 51:39
  Speaker 4: So it's not really a question, more of like a conversation point.
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: Um, yeah, wondering if you could talk towards that.
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, of course.
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: So I agree, there is a lot of suffering involved and I I'm a coach as well, and so I I have these conversations with people so often and it's you know, I I do try to remove myself sometimes because I know that this is a different experience for everybody too Not everybody, and don't get me wrong, I am not running up these Hills Like this is so great, so easy, like I'm having so much fun.
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: There are a lot of times where I'm like I think I'll drop out at the top, like I think that's what's going to happen.
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: Is that I'm actually going to drop out, like almost like 80% of races.
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: I'm like if you just make it to here, then you're allowed to drop out, and usually I make it to that point and I'm like, oh, this is so fun, I'm having so much fun in like a really weird type two way of fun.
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: But, um, I would say, and especially the first trail run that I did in Boulder, I was like just running way too hard uphill, did not.
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: It was a sufferfest, it was terrible.
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: And so I think getting on hills consistently one that's very important, but also slowing it down when you're on those hills to be able to be on the hill for longer and get your body used to moving uphill efficiently.
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: And then with time, the more you do that, the more you get on that terrain, the easier it'll it'll feel and the faster you'll get at it.
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: So that's one piece, that's kind of the training piece of like slowly breaking yourself into doing specific vert for the race that you're doing.
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: I would say you know, try to be as specific as you can so that the race isn't this like novel thing.
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: And then, as far as the mentality around when you're in the race, for me it does go back to gratitude, like in those moments that I'm like starting to fall towards the you know if it's like a balance weight or whatever I'm starting to fall towards the side of like negativity a little bit.
• 53:39
  Speaker 3: Then I do check in with myself actively and I'm like you know you're grateful to be here.
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: You are healthy, you are like.
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: I don't tell myself I'm grateful, but I'm like I'm like here's some reasons to be grateful.
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: Like you have a healthy body, you are like an absolute monster, like you're a beast, like it's all these mantras that I do feel like they sound so silly saying out loud right now like you're a beast, but in the moment I'm like fully throwing myself into that statement and I'm like believing it and and it does make things go by faster.
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: And if it becomes this thing where, like none of that's working, then usually I'm like okay, I'm just gonna look at the shape of these rocks and I'm gonna like that rock looks like a heart.
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: I have no heart.
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: Like it's like all these random things that just like you'll make yourself laugh, if nothing else, and I think that there's a little bit of a distraction element, but, um, for the most part it does go back to gratitude and like working on that side of me and like the the mental aspect of like just keeping myself grounded in the moment cool so cool.
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: Thank you, so on a previous podcast with james, he had discussed the separation of men's and women's races into two different days.
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on that?
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a pretty new thing, I would say.
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: In Golden Trail in particular, I actually have not started that many races as only a female race.
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: I personally like having everyone on the start line, which is a very controversial.
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: It's a very controversial topic because I know that a lot of there's there are a lot of people that I think that the start line could be like a little bit balanced and it works out really well.
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: I've had this conversation with a lot of people.
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: But but for the people at the front of, I don't want to be leading the race outright.
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: I like to be able to chase and I think the reality with some trail races is that I end up in no man's land a lot and in a lot of these races it ends up being like me and a male, or like me and two males, or me, another female and two males, and it just it provides a little more density, which I like.
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: I like to be able to not feel like I'm just like alone in the forest in a race, because it just makes it a little harder to gauge the effort.
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: So I personally do like racing together, but I would say there are some European races in particular, like Sears and all.
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: I would probably enjoy that race more if the start line was not being like a human sardine, like it is so insane and like it smells terrible and everybody goes out at like 440 pace.
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: So you're kind of pushed along with like this group of professional road athletes and that's a little terrifying.
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: But other than that I think like I do find a nice balance with having like a group of men go ahead and then like a chase group of women, and it's kind of fun to feel like the whole community is together.
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: So race dependent.
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: Race dependent.
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's my like long winded way of saying sort of yeah.
• 57:06
  Speaker 4: Especially now you mentioned that you are a coach.
• 57:08
  Speaker 4: What is one thing that 2025 Bailey would tell 2019 Bailey when she's first?
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: getting into trails?
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: That's a great question, I mean.
• 57:13
  Speaker 3: I think one obvious thing is to slow the heck down.
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: I tried to run everything like a roadrunner and run everything at a certain pace.
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: Pace does not matter when you're running up a 20% grade, it doesn't mean anything and actually like honing in on knowing what it feels like to go hard versus to go easy, and having that in your skillset will help you intuitively in a race to be able to know like you're different.
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: I think of it all as like a dial and it's like I now know the different, like little knobs on my dial versus before.
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: It was just like always at the same spot and I don't feel like I was actually like learning anything.
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I would say slow down will you come back at any point in time to do like the entire golden trail series, or you think you're done?
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: I'm definitely not done.
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: I have so much more work to do there and I wanted to do it last year, but one of the races that I had done well, I had two like really bad races, but then one of the races that I showed up to was canceled 10k in, so then it didn't count towards one of the golden curve races and it made it a logistical nightmare.
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: Um, but I do hope to do it again and I think, um, I'm just also trying to explore other things.
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: Process, yeah, it's just interesting to me because I see a lot of people that like will do it for like three or four years and then like disappear like eli and taber, like that's the thing, like they kind of graduated into like longer stuff and like they don't go back to it.
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: So it's just interesting to see different people's how they kind of change their perspective on it I would like to go back to it.
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: I I also have just had my eyes on occCC for so long that I'm like I'm ready and OCC and worlds is like to me, a very realistic, reasonable, double so.
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: But it's also like being the smart part of me is like you can't.
• 59:13
  Speaker 3: Some people will try to do golden trail and OCC and worlds and I'm not that person.
• 59:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: Beats you up anybody else, so you think you mentioned you're dealing with an injury.
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: How do you deal with injuries and setbacks from a mental standpoint?
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: yeah, it's taken me a really long time to get to a place where I could like be injured and not feel like it's a weakness and and I think I've learned a lot through that process like being able to one own up to it and be like everybody gets injured like that that happens.
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: But, um, for me it's, it's just about like I mean, I use a lot of like the things that I this is kind of odd, but I use a lot of like the things that I this is kind of odd, but I use a lot of the things that I learn in therapy.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: When I'm injured, it's like, okay, I need to like think about this thought I had and why it may or may not be rational, like, oh, like there's a lot of imposter syndrome that happens with injury and I feel like I'm like I don't deserve this sponsorship.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 3: I don't deserve like I shouldn't.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 3: Even I don't even know why I call myself a professional runner.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: And it's like whoa, take a step back.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: Like you have all of the data in your favor to call yourself whatever.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 3: And it's also like it's just a season, like it's just not a season of running, it's just a season of life, like it's just part of the process and like for me, I have actual proof that, like I have come back from injuries way stronger.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: For me, I have actual proof that, like I have come back from injuries way stronger.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: So I'm like you know, this might just be like letting me not get too fit too early in the year.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 3: So like trying to trust the process and like also connect with people around me, like do things that I enjoy that maybe aren't related to running, um, and also not scroll on Strava.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: That's been really that's just a piece of the process.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: Is like not getting caught up in, like well, I'm racing this person and they're running 100 miles a week and I'm running nothing, so I suck.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 3: It's like okay, we're just going to step back and realize that like everybody's path to success is looking a little bit different a little bit different.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: How do you, as a professional in the sport and like one of the biggest name women on the sub ultra side, like, how do you view your career?
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: Like, do you look at it as like one day I'm just going to retire from this and do something different?
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: Or like, like what do you?
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: How do you like, are you running always be a piece of your life?
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: Like, how do you like view it from a career perspective?
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, for starters, I think my career is like just getting started, which is fun.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: Um and that's like to speak to your inspiration question earlier Like I am so inspired by the people that are thriving, you know, to whatever age, like there's not even a number, I'll put on it right now, but, um, I do think, like, as I, it's hard for me to imagine not competing, honestly, because I still love it so much that I don't see an end point.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 3: But but, should that end point come, mentally or physically?
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: When it comes, I think like I can see myself just still being so involved in the sport and like wanting to make a difference and and feeling like I can naturally transition to that part of myself and and not the ultra competitive side anymore, and I in my head it feels like it could be really smooth and natural.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 3: So I'm going to roll with that, yeah.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: I like that answer.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: I see a lot of folks like Anton, for instance, going in house at Sportiva, david Laney going in house at craft.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: Do you do you think that would be something like you'd be interested in If?
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: Nike gives me a job.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 3: That'd be.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 3: She'll be out, but yeah well, yeah well, I we didn't talk about this, but my original plan with life was to go to medical school.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 3: So there is a piece of me that's still really obsessed with human physiology and working with people directly on that, and so there there is like a lot of curiosity and how I could blend that with running as well, whether that's running female athlete-based research.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 3: So there's a lot of things cooking in my brain and I don't necessarily know what that looks like, but I know that running is a piece of that, and as long as I still love this sport, I will still be here, cool.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: Anybody else?
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: Rose, you got anything?
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: No, joey, stephen, brad, anybody, ace, hi there, all right.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: Well, bailey, thank you so much for coming.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 3: The dogs are like they're tapping for us.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry about the floor, guys.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: It's covered in dog hair.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: Awesome, yay, thank you.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: Thank you, guys.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: What'd you guys think?
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: Oh man, what a fun episode.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: Like I said, want to thank everybody from the bottom of my heart for coming out to the live pod.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: You can also tune in and catch this guys on video on YouTube.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: It's going to go up on our YouTube shortly and it is already up on the Colorado Running Company YouTube channel.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: You can find them at Colorado Running Company.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: Before you guys get going, do me a favor let's get Bailey some more followers.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: You can give her a follow at Bailey B-A-I-L-E-Y Kowalczyk.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: That's K-O-W-A-L-C-Z-Y-K.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: Give her a follow.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: Send her some messages, some encouraging messages.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: Let her know what you guys thought about the episode.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: I'm sure she'd love to hear from you.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was awesome.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: Really want to personally thank Bailey from the bottom of my heart for coming out.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: I know those podcasts can be a little bit intimidating when it's in front of a live audience, so it was just super fun to be able to get to do these, just chat with the crowd and have people here so many people.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: I want to shout out and just give a giant thank you all, all my friends and family for coming out.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: I want to give a big shout out to Colorado Running Company.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: Thank you guys so much for being able to host this event.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: Ron, ace, benjamin and company everybody so much, just like thank you for giving us so much love and putting this on.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: Ron is just such a visionary at CRC and just being able to do this it was just so cool.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: So hopefully this is the first of many of these fun little events that we'll be able to do.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: And, ace, your video production is just so amazing the way we're able to do everything.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: And Benjamin, thanks for being support and leading the group run and just being a huge help.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: So thank you guys so much.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: I want to thank my wife for being massively supportive and just like helping through everything and just, you know, helping get the day, get me through the day, and just getting everything done.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: It was so much fun having our dogs there and just, yeah, just doing our thing and yeah, I really appreciate that.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: Like I said, so many friends and family.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: To thank All my friends.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: You guys know how much I love and appreciate you and just thank you for supporting the podcast and just listeners as well and new friends, people I got to meet at the pod Guys I love you so much, thank you.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: It just means the world to me, so really excited for what we have in SOAR for year two.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: We've got a lot of really fun things coming down the pipeline that I can't wait to announce.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: Also want to thank some folks from some different brands EMI and company and everybody that came out from Ultimate Direction to support and have the scratcheritas and just provide a bunch of product and giveaways and do all that.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: That was amazing.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: Cetus USA thank you guys, as well as Nike Trail Thanks for doing the shoe demos and C see, just thank you for giving us socks to give away.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: Um aiden at cedis, like, thank you so much.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, so so much good stuff, so much love to go around.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: I could sit here for 20 minutes and just name names and just thank everyone, but I don't want to do that, uh, because you know out of the, you know I want to be mindful of your guys's time.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: So thanks guys so much, really appreciate it and I can't wait for next year.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: Thank you.