Latest / Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald / The Bachelor’s Nightmare: Dave Neal Exposes Clayton Echard’s Fake Twin Pregnancy Scandal!

Transcript

The Bachelor’s Nightmare: Dave Neal Exposes Clayton Echard’s Fake Twin Pregnancy Scandal! · Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald

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  Speaker 4: Heather MacDonald. Juicy Scoop. Hello, and welcome to Juicy Scoop.
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: You guys have been asking me to revisit a subject
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: that we talked about before, and that's the subject of
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: the bachelor, Clayton, and the horrible paternity nightmare that he
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: went through. And I was like, I have discussed it
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: with my, again, guest who's returning, Dave Neal, who has
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: a great YouTube following, and you're very thorough, very opinionated,
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: Also a father of a two-year-old, married, right?
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, still.
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: And you'd reached out to me about something we were
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: talking about before, and I was like, oh, I love this.
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: And now this story of Clayton has its own story.
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: long form podcast, which I listened to the whole thing.
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: I was familiar with it. And I'm so excited to
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: have you here because you really kind of helped crack
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: this open this whole case.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah. 200 videos. And then they whittle that down into
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: like 10 episodes to tell the chronological story story still
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: going on. But I went on your show just over
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: a year ago. Two weeks after going on your show
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: to talk about it is when Laura got charged with
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: seven felonies. So that was like everyone was shocked because
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: at that point no one thought she was going to
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: get any accountability.
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: I just want to just dumb down what this is
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: and then we can really get into it because a
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: lot of people have no idea what this story is about.
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: Clayton was on The Bachelor how many years ago now,
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: like eight?
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: Not even.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: Not even. I mean, like just three or four. Yeah.
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: From now?
• 2:34
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: He's like post-COVID.
• 2:36
  Speaker 7: Yeah, he was.
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: Oh, he was?
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he kind of got plucked out of obscurity because
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: he wasn't one of the top folks on that season.
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: He just didn't have COVID.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're like, we'll take you fresh body here. And
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: they brought him in and, you know, they choose bachelors
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: based on like the psychological thoughts of like, who can
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: they not manipulate, but, you know, get to play the part.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: Who's really going to like want to fall in love
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: and be in love and all that kind of stuff.
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: And so that was really interesting to kind of hear
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: his side of like just being chosen, deciding to do it.
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: And he had like a disastrous ending in that he
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: ended up with nobody, right?
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he did what everyone does, which is they all
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: bang around in the fantasy suites. But he made the
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: mistake of telling each woman everything. in front of each other.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: He was intimate with the other. That's right. He told
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: them all he loved them. What's so worse is like,
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: people are almost more offended when you say, I love
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: you to multiple women than banging multiple women. But like,
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: these are the rules of The Bachelor. You know, like there's,
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: these are the rules. You have to wait. You can't
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: bang someone before the, you know, the yurt or whatever
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: special thing they set you up in. You know, it's
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: like very, if you go against the rules, they get
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: very upset.
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: I've been watching The Bachelor from the very beginning and
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: covered it a lot. And I'd always make fun of
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: how they would say the same thing.
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: Being vulnerable.
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: You really challenge me. You really, um, on this journey.
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: And I was like, these same three words, like, what
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: is this? Until I did an episode of The Bachelorette
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: and it was during COVID and we were supposed to
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: go to some beautiful place in Canada, but then Canada
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: got COVID.
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: We were in like New Mexico and it was just dry.
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: And I had to be like in this room for
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: like five days by myself. But I'd worked throughout COVID,
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: so I kind of liked it. Like I didn't mind
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: being in this hotel room. And so then when we
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: filmed the scene where I'm like kind of helping to
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: like facilitate a date and these guys had to like
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: write a song for her or something, it was I
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: saw the producer say, mention the journey mention the you
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: know it's.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: Like bingo they just have these words.
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: And i'm like how is it in like 28 episodes
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: or series how is it someone hasn't been like oh
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: we need to change up this can we just get.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: And that's the issue with the show is they just
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: they just kept playing it safe and then like love
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: island comes out with like thong bikinis and everyone's like
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: oh that show's more fun like it's just so unrealistic
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: and it was like abc it was like they're very
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: safe with like They don't say whether or not they
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: had sex. They just like cut to a scene of
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: the sprinklers going off.
• 5:13
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: And it's like terrestrial radio. It's like people were just
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: done with that.
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: Totally true.
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: But still, there still is a handful of people that
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: made it and got married and had kids.
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: You're like, hey, it could happen to me.
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: And then, of course, you know, it comes to a
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: place of, well, this is the best way to get
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: into TV, influencing, podcasting. Remember how many? Bachelor people had podcasts.
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: Like there were like 35 on iHeart at one point.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: There was this golden era where like just by going
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: on the show, you cracked a million views. And there's
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: people that have like clothing. A million followers. A million followers.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: And there's people with like fashion lines and all of that.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: And it kind of just dried up. People stopped hitting follow.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: It's still kind of like, but like, so Clayton was
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: one of those seasons where he didn't get that like
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: social contract where you go on the show, we rip
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: your heart out. Everyone hates you. But then you get
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: a following and you live your dream. Like he didn't,
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: he got only the worst of it. Right.
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: And so he goes back and he's in like the
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: Scottsdale area and doing the only other thing you can do,
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: which is get your real estate license.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: Which is the bottle service.
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: And being that I've been an actor, stand up and
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: a realtor and a podcaster, I can relate.
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: To all of it.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: And a fitness coach, like a lifestyle coach or fitness.
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: Right, because you have a good body and you have
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: to work out. And they showed you lathering up your
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: abs on the show. And that's where he is all
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: excited to get this client. And as someone that did
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: real estate, a long time ago when I was in
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: my 20s, I worked with my parents and they like,
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: we're so excited that I got my license and I
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: had a real headshot cause I was also trying to
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: be an actor. So I look pretty cute. And like
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: at that time there was very few male realtors. It
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: was all like old lady realtors. So I really like
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: stood out and I would get people calling to, for
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: me to show them houses.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: You're like dating them. You're showing, you're, you're in the
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: car together going, you know.
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: Talking about this cop that I was like, this is weird.
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: Like I got to, And this guy is not interested
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: in buying anything. And it kind of creeped me out.
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: So it's kind of interesting to hear that essentially.
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: That happened to him. He was the new realtor. Of course,
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: he had a big following because he was the bachelor.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: Just got his license like two weeks earlier.
• 7:41
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: And he gets this girl who does the fake shmeal,
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: you know, which is why also we would get all
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: the rules so that we don't get raped and murdered
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: because we're small people.
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: Or people than men.
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: So it would always be what we learned was like,
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: you don't take them in your car. But if you're
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: going to meet them at a house or whatever, you
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: make sure that they already have a pre-qualification letter, that
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: they actually have the money.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: Don't waste my time.
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: They meet you at the office.
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: The reception makes a copy of their license, all this stuff.
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: So they're not going to kill you.
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: Well, He's a big, strong guy, and he sees this
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: young girl, and she writes him, like, oh, I'm interested in,
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: you know.
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: Investment properties.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: She sends him this, like, screen grab of a $ 450, 000,
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: you know, checking account. So she's, like, he thinks.
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: Oh, so she was legitimizing herself.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think the money was real, because now
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: she says she's never made a dollar in her life, because...
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: Fast forward, she's filed for bankruptcy. But at the time,
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: he's like, she's got money. I'm going to make a commission.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: She talked about future properties. He's like, this is it.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: You know, he's blinded by like, oh, this is great.
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: I mean, this really is so every girl's story of
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: being like sexually harassed or thinking that they got the
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: job because they were smart and then the guy really
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: wants to screw them. So it is quite the reversal of,
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: you know, of a story that it happens to this guy.
• 9:11
  Speaker 4: And....
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: They're like chatting and it starts to get flirty and
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: she's an equestrian. And so she sends this photo of herself,
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: like turning around and I guess she had a good,
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: but at.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: Least in the photo, I mean, everything's Photoshop. So we
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: don't know, but like, I mean, I mean like literally
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: everything she's like, she's like, you know, been investigated mainly
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: for her Photoshop skills because she's like, cause she's lied
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: under oath and all these things, but that, yeah. So
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: she sends, she sends the good old butt shot as
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: you do in today's world. And he's like, let's get
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: on over here. And then he gets two blowjobs. That's it.
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: And that is where it gets so crazy because then,
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: you know, he shows her property, but he does say
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: she wants to write an offer.
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: And he does say like, because she's so insistent on it.
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: And I want to write an offer. And last night
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: was so great. Let's do it again. And then he's
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: kind of like, I don't really think we should do this. Also,
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: I'm going to guess maybe he didn't know how to
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: write an offer if he was that new. So then
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: that's just my interpretation. So then he was like, I'd
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: like to just like push you off to an associate
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: you could still get a portion whatever and and that's
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: when she's like no no no like she it's crazy
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: because what we really the juiciest part of the story
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: which we will go through it all because I have
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: so many questions is that she's done this kind of
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: crazy lie manipulation pregnancy stories that aren't where she's not
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: pregnant To three other guys?
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: At least. There's a guy, Matt. So there's at least four.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: But then there's non-sexual coercion of a contractor. There's people
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: in her apartment complex. We have this whole season two, three, four.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: But it's leverage. She uses leverage. She'll get him to
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: do something that might be not ethical. And then she'll
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: go to the real estate board. and try to get
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: his real estate license removed. So that's what she did.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: She did that to him. She did that to a
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: contractor in the past to leverage like $ 100, 000, squeeze it
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: out of this guy. And it's just leverage. And she
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: grew up being a child of a radio star in
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: San Francisco. Her dad was Ron Owens, who was like
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: this big shot, making over $ 1. 4 million a year at
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: his heyday, interviewing Obama when he was a presidential candidate.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: So this guy walked on water in that area. And
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: everything was just leveraged. So she was the kid who
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: was like, do you know who my parents are? And,
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: and she's used that too. And because the timeline with
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: Clayton is he, he like rejected her morning after blowjobs.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: And he's like, look, we, you know, we should, we
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: shouldn't have done that. And he said, she just turned.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: So she had that, like that rejection sort of like
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: triggering where it was all of a sudden, like, I
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: will get you. And then that's when the coercion came in. Like,
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: like you have to respond to me because you're my agent.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: You have to do this. You have to talk to me.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: And Clayton was like, all right, I'll put the offer in.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: And he never did it. He tried to like pass
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: her on to someone else. And that's when she got
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: him for this violation.
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: Like you had a fiduciary relationship to me and you had,
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: you have to have written the offer. And like as
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: someone who grew up in real estate and a realtor
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: and then sold my own house as I'm not a
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: licensed realtor anymore. But I was like, It really doesn't
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: work that way as a buyer's agent. Like the real,
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: the real only contract there is, is when you list
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: a house, you know, and are they obligated to you
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: for this amount of time?
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: And people would always try to get a contract as
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: a buyer.
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: And that really never worked because that you're basically telling
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: someone you have to buy through me. And what if
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: they walked into a house tomorrow, which makes it why
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: most people want to be listing agents versus buying agents.
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: So I thought right away when I heard that, I
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: was like, I don't think that's right. But it's like
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: she's one of those people, the most dangerous kind, is
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: that she's not a lawyer, but she's just smart enough
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: to know enough to fuck you up.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: Fuck you up until it's public and then experts are like, no.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: Like nurses and doctors, once they start looking at her
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: medical stuff, they're like, uh-uh. Commas off. That's no time code.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: And they, but like, yeah, to the person who just thinks.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: It's terrifying. And that's how scams work. It happens in
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: the dark. It's mold, right?
• 13:32
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: But so that, so her trying to like leverage this
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: realtor sort of like hold that over his head, that'll
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: come up a year later. I don't think it made
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: it into the documentary, but she essentially extorted him.
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: Off of that. So the podcast is becoming a documentary.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: I don't, there's probably no like contracts yet, but that's
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: the goal is that this will become like, the Netflix
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: or HBO version of, of what was made.
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: I mean, I definitely want to see it also as
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: a scripted version.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: Sure. And it's not even done. I'm a, I'm a,
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: I'm a witness for the state of Arizona for the
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: trial and the trial will happen. So, so let's, let's
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: keep walking.
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: People through it.
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: Cause I, someone's not that familiar, which I actually don't
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: think in the pop culture world, it's not as big
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: of a story as, as some would think, because it
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: is so long and convoluted that it's like, what?
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: It's a tough elevator pitch. And that's why when you
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: said you'd have me on a year ago, I like
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: flew out. You're the only podcast. That was the only
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: time I've spent a night away from my child. And
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: I'm like, but it was important for my family because
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: she's starting to sue me for over $ 100 million. So
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: it was important for me to get this attention out
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: there to get the attention of not just pop culture,
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: but that gets the attention of the county prosecutors because
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: they let perjury... happen all the time. No one gets
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: charged for it.
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: You know, and with, and with cases where women get
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: scammed by men too, um, there it's very, the reason
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: there's so many shows about women being scammed, love scammed
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: or love bombed or, or that type of thing, or
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: the guy moves in and takes their money and find
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: that they're dating five other people. It's one of those
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: things where it's not murder.
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: It's not this.
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: So it's like very hard for someone to then try
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: to prosecute this case and then when i think it's
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: even worse when you're a big strong guy who is
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: mr all-american and is seen as wealthy though he's not
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: and she's a girl like you just look like you know.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: Damsel and she sells it and all the cops they
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: she she got cops for all the way from broward
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: county florida to la county she got cops to feel
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: bad for her and and help her target these men.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: So Clayton was the third guy in a row she
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: got restraining orders against. I would have been the fourth.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: A judge slapped that down because I was just operating
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: as a journalist. Had I ever met Laura, she'd probably
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: have a restraining order on me right now because the
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: judges err on the side of caution. And she was.
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: Trying to say, I need a restraining order against you,
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: Dave Neal, because you are reporting on a story that
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: is already out in the news. And there's already been
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: court filings, which then would give you a right to
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: discuss it.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she tried to play both sides. She leaked this story.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: She sent it to everyone, Page Six, The Sun, everyone.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: And The Sun ran with it.
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: And the original story, because we haven't even told what
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: the original story that she said was. So then he's
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: like trying to be nice, trying to give her to
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: another broker, and she won't have it.
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: She keeps writing. Then she hits him with, I'm pregnant.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: Five days later. Like, short time later. I'm pregnant.
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: I'm pregnant.
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: And now he's like, how the hell did you get
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: pregnant when I never even had sex with you? And
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: we can't even say the condoms slipped off or she
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: poked it with a safety pin. I never had vaginal
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: sex with you. And or pulled out or anything.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: Turkey basting became the trending term because people were like,
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: did she scoop in this?
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: So they thought the only way he thought it could
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: be possible or other people is, did she swallow, run
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: to the bathroom, spit in her hand, and then try
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: to scooch that up there? Which, you know, I remember
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: there'd always be stories where, you know, like guys... would
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: have to dispose, like if they were, you know, a
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: valuable guy that doesn't want to get, you know, some
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: NBA mama, whatever, they would take out their condom and
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: like put hot sauce in it or throw it away.
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: Or women would take a condom and take a safety
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: pin and poke it through the package. So then you're
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: opening a brand new package. So then it was like,
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: always make sure you bring your own condoms.
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: So I got a certain point.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what a Hot Ones episode that would be. What
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: Scoville level is pregnancy? And there's even, we were looking
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: up stories, like there was one time where someone did
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: swallow and got pregnant. And it's like, what in the
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: fallopian jog? There's no way. I wouldn't think so. And
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: they even say the spitting, that the saliva could kill it.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: But we're like, this is, he's a mighty man. So,
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: you know, who knows? But the reason why.
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: I mean, when I was in Catholic school, they said
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: to scare us that... If there was any kind of
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: ejaculation even near the area, one could swim on up there.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: Growing up Catholic, I thought I had AIDS from like
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: making out too hard. Okay, like I was tormented. I
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: went to the doctor and the doctor's like, what's wrong
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: with you? I was like, I don't know. I'm sorry.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: But that's, yeah, you don't know. Like we didn't have Google.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: You just knew what you knew.
• 18:40
  Speaker 7: Looking for a getaway that's truly special? Ireland's Blue Book
• 18:44
  Speaker 7: has just what you need. From country houses to boutique hotels,
• 18:48
  Speaker 7: from romantic castles to historic hideaways, relax and indulge yourself
• 18:53
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• 18:58
  Speaker 7: your next luxury escape.
• 19:01
  Speaker 5: I'm Darman, and this is What Happens Next. Each week
• 19:04
  Speaker 5: on the show, I sit down with extraordinary people who
• 19:07
  Speaker 5: have faced tremendous setbacks, and yet somehow have found a
• 19:11
  Speaker 5: way to turn them into their greatest strengths.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: Life is one long lesson of chaos.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: I'm heading to the Emmys, and I have police complaints
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: filed against me.
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: When your free will was about to be taken from you,
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: what would you.
• 19:23
  Speaker 5: Do if it was given back? Where did that need
• 19:26
  Speaker 5: come from where you thought that you had to succeed
• 19:29
  Speaker 5: in order.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: To feel loved? He said, I have a work dad.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: I need a home dad. What happens next?
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: When I came in, he started crying.
• 19:35
  Speaker 5: Everybody in life encounters hardships. What defines them is not
• 19:40
  Speaker 5: those hard moments that they go through. It's about what
• 19:43
  Speaker 5: happens next.
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: I decided to risk it all.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: I realized how valuable every day was.
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: You're worth the work.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: Listen, Dara, I'm not going to pull punches.
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: You can use your voice even if it's shaped.
• 19:52
  Speaker 5: The stories are different, but the impact is the same.
• 19:56
  Speaker 5: Only one question matters. What happens next?
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: So at any point, We have a video of Laura.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: I've literally seen it where she shows a video of
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: her peeing under the stick. You know, she doesn't pan down,
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: but she pees under the stick and test positive. He
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: was there. He used his independent stick because I've heard
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: some sodas and certain things can trip it, but it's HCG, right?
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: That's the, is that what it's called? What's it? Yeah.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: I think H and I might have the wrong, I
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: might be blanking.
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: On the, the, it was, I think it was a
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: kind of, medication that you could get that then would
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: reflect possibly a false pregnancy test.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like when my wife got pregnant.
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: And you could order it.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: We were like, are you even pregnant or are the
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: medications you're on tripping it because that could happen? And
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: with Laura, it was a very faint test. It's almost
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: like if you have COVID and you're a few days
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: after and it's a faint test. It shows up on
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: different levels based on how strong it is. So it's
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: an indicator of pregnancy.
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: So she found this type of medication that you could
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: get and you could order it yourself. And there was
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: some evidence that she had ordered it, right?
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: Right. Like a year later, she gets raided by the cops.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: SWAT raider at 6 a.m. There's like a dozen. They're
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: all body cam. They did it all. And they found
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: evidence that she purchased like black market style this. I
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: think it's like the diet medication because we were like,
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: you could drive to Tijuana and get this stuff over
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: the counter. You could go to a vet clinic and
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: possibly get this fertility drug for animals. We didn't put
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: anything past her. In fact, because she was starting to
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: share photos of a miscarriage she claimed to have, and
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: we thought it was some sort of animal product because
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: it was like a Photoshopped who knows what.
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: So the initial story that she decides to give to
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: the son, the tabloid, Is I was dating Clayton, the bachelor,
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: and I'm currently pregnant with twins and he is completely
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: ignoring me, blowing me off.
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: And she was using that to threaten him, but she
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: didn't want to be public. She was an anonymous woman
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: that lasted like all but an hour. I mean, you know,
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: through Bravo, it's like, You cover anything celebrity, people will...
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: They'll go to the courthouse in every county across America
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: and find the information.
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: So somebody found her.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: They were like a podcaster who did a TED Talk,
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: and they were able to find her like that, which
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: led Greg Gillespie, her other victim's current girl, his wife,
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: to be like, this is the chick who did it
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: to you. And so then Greg.
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: That was like the juiciest part. I was like, oh
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: my God, that she's done this.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: Greg got the, he got the, quite possibly the worst
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: because he knew she was fucking with him immediately and
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: he played it really hard and he, and deservingly so.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: And she did a thing where she was like, you know,
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: she was like, if you keep dating me, I will
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: get an abortion. That was her plan. That was her leverage.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: If you date me, I'll get an abortion. And the
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: guy was like— Did she do that to Clayton, too,
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: or just to him? With Clayton, she did it as well.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: So she tried to leverage.
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: This is the craziest part.
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: So she keeps writing them these long-winded emails, Dorit style.
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: I don't know if I'd said Dorit would ever lie
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: about this, but very long-winded. And it was like, you know,
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: I understand, you know, your trepidation or something. It'd be like,
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: but I really think there's something here. And we had
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: such a great time together. And I haven't been with
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: anybody else. If you get with me now, you'll see
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: how tiny I am down there.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: If you date me for one week with intention, she
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: said with intention, it said one week, which is funny.
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: Which is like such a Christian word to say, but
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: it was with intention. Then I will get the abortion
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: and then we'll continue to try. And then if we don't,
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: then if we break up, then I will go away
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: and I also aborted the baby. So it's like, so
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: you want to have a future with this person, but
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: the negotiating skill is I will only abort the baby
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: if you are my boyfriend. If you aren't my boyfriend,
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: then I'm going to have this baby and you're going
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: to have to deal with me for the rest of
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: your life.
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: Like it is the craziest thing.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: Thing.
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: I could not get over that part.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: And the, and the guy Greg before, um, uh, you know,
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: obviously Greg didn't know about Mike, the guy before that,
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: none of this was all tied together. So Greg was
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: flying solo.
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: Let's go to Greg. Okay.
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: So let's put that. So that's what at first Clayton
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: was dealing with. But now since we're talking about some
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: other people, I want to talk about this guy, Greg,
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: who was her boyfriend just for like a week. I mean,
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: it was like No, this is Greg and then his wife, Danielle, right?
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: That's Mike.
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: Oh, so Mike.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: So now this goes back to about a decade ago.
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: Okay, tell me about Greg.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: So Greg happened in like 20, I think just before COVID,
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: in that range.
• 25:02
  Speaker 7: 16, 17, yeah.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: Okay, do you want to go back to Mike? Mike
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: was the one.
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: Wait, which one is, which goes back.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: The furthest that you went? Mike gets featured more and
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: he gets a lot of attention.
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: But no, that's just for the people listening that didn't
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: listen to the podcast, that are just listening to this.
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: who is the furthest person back that she did something
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: similar to?
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: On the, on like the public record, it's Mike. It
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: goes back further, but that's people that don't want to talk.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: But Mike in 2016 was dating her and like, wasn't
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: wanting to have things be serious, casual. And, and then
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: that's when, you know, she was, you know, talking about
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: her father who's been dying still, he's still dying. And
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: she was kind of like using whatever she could. She, she, um,
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: she created this contract that her and Mike were going
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: to do a podcast together. Oh, the podcast story is
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: the best. And it was like a six figure deal.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: And it was back then. I mean, no way, no way.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: And we've seen the emails and like she, somebody faked
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: her dad's agent's name because there's no way that he's
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: never come forward. They don't want anything to do with it.
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: They go to this, they go to him and she's like,
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: even though we aren't dating anymore, like, We have an
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: opportunity because my dad is like, whatever, the Howard Stern
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: of San Francisco. We got offered to do a podcast,
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: which back then, like, podcasts weren't even happening.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: Well, I think technically it was a radio show, but
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: it would have been one of those shows where you, like,
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: pay for the time to be on air. But Mike
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: didn't know that, but that's what it was. It would
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: have been like a, if they ever did release any
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: of it, it would have been like a tele, you know, whatever,
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: an ad, really.
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: And so it was dating, a dating talk show between
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: the two of them. And because she was also, like,
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: in that world with her mother. And so he's like,
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: I never thought I would be a radio host. I
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: don't even think I have like a great talking voice, whatever.
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: But she's like, oh, we're going to make whatever. Like
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: it was like 200,000 a year or something ridiculous amount.
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: And that story is so insane. And then she goes,
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: now the radio station wants to take you and I
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: to Iceland for New Year's Eve to do a promo
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: for it.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And he... however they're falling out happens he's like
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: I don't want to date anymore or whatever so he
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: gets on the flight and she's like yeah yeah you
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: go you do the ticket fine whatever I won't go
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: he gets on the flight and sees that she's on
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: the flight and she gets hysterical because she's kind of
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: a wild person whatever she's got wrong with her and
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: she's going off on him to the point where he
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: like goes to the bathroom and locks himself in the
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: bathroom on this cross you know on this long flight
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: until the flight attendant's like dude you gotta get out
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: of the bathroom And then he had to go back
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: and sit with her. And apparently some lady watched it
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: all happen and thinks she's the damsel. And, you know, like,
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: you know, I don't know, becomes the centerpiece of this
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: TEDx talk that she gives that's.
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: Still on air.
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: So then, Laura, just to go back, Laura then, they
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: get to Iceland. Was there any actual radio news? promo
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: work to be done that.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: You're aware of i don't know if they recorded anything
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: or they were just supposed to go on the experience
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: because they ended up doing it again in like dubai
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: or some other you know they ended up doing it
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: one more time and he was just trying to get
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: he was like he's trying to get his paycheck.
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: But he never got a paycheck i think.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: She ended up paying him like i think she ended
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: up paying him and it just probably wasn't suspicious to
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: him but like he got something and then that was
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: kind of the end of it but yeah he's like
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: he was like yeah it was garbage on air And like,
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: you know how it is. It'd be like, you do comedy,
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: you do the trenches for years to build your opportunities up.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: No one gets gifted something like that. But he doesn't
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: know that. He's just like, oh, wow, great. You just,
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: you get blinded by opportunity. But at least she did
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: pay for those trips. Something was paid for, but it
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: probably wasn't the full amount.
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: I thought it was so interesting about the parents that
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: the parents were like, she's a really great girl. You
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: should give her another chance.
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: I'm like, What dad?
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: Like, any time I broke up with a boyfriend or
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: my sister broke up with a boyfriend, my dad would
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: be like, you know, screw that asshole.
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: You're Miss America. Like, you would never be like.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: Man, that dad tried everything.
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: But it's obviously he's dealing with a type of person
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: that whatever their weird family dynamic, he.
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: Was like, please, just be my daughter's girlfriend.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: For a little longer. Yeah, like, knowing how bad shit
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: she gets. And he's just like, look, yeah, she has
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: a tendency to fake pregnancies. I mean, this was this
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: was an assigned affidavit by someone on, by one of
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: Mike's like family that like, that they were in the
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: room when the dad said, yeah, she, she has a
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: tendency to fake pregnancy. So we find all of this out.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: Now it's not on, you know, they don't have an
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: audio clip of it, but it is a sworn affidavit
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: from someone who has like a high up job and like,
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: they're not, they have no, no credibility issues. And the
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: dad's like, just say what she needs to say, you know,
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: help her out. She's she's like fake. She's saying she's
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: going to kill herself, which, by the way, she's used
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: against me and everyone else to have her story silenced.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: And everyone's obviously not wanting someone to hurt themselves. But
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: at the same time, she's hurt so many people. So
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: he just like deals with her as long as he
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: can until until like she's done with him. She gets
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: a restraining restraining order on him, which she had for like,
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: you know, until recently.
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: And in getting those restraining orders, you know, obviously. For
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: people that don't really understand, you don't want someone to
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: succeed in getting one when you're innocent because then that's
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: on your record. It looks bad. It looks bad when
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: you apply for a job if you're trying to get.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: And I had the same idea that Mike had where
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: when she was trying to get one on me, I
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: told my lawyer, like, dude, I don't even care because
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: I don't want to see her. And he's like, no, no, no, no.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: Trust me. You'll have issues getting through security at the airports.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: You'll never get a job. Like, so Mike was literally...
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, even if you were trying to join.
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: A country club or a Soho house or something, or
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: even a homeowner's or something, it comes up.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: Even if you were trying to do a gig at
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: like the Tempe Improv, she's going to email them and say,
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: why are you letting a known X, Y, and Z
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: to be, you know, and so she used that on Mike.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: She used it on Clayton. She's emailed and tried to
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: use it on Greg. And so it's leverage.
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: So in choosing and trying to get it, let me
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: just ask with the Mike part, because, you know, there's
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: a lot of information there, but like, She it was
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: just her word against his that there was some physical
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: threat that happened or something.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: And when it's someone that you have been intimate with,
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: it's almost a slam dunk that that it'll be it'll
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: be granted pretty much. I mean, he like he did
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: what he could. And it was yeah, it was her
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: word versus him. She accused him of nearly trying to
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: kill her and all in DV and all these things.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: And it's like you want you. In most cases, people
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: don't lie, but when they do, I mean, it's just insane.
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: And then she sort of doubles down on this narrative
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: in that she gets to do a TED Talk, which
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: these are the TED Talk X things, which is not
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: the actual TED Talk.
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: Total garbage.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: I don't like to use the term cringeworthy. It's so overused.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: I challenge your audience to get through the five minutes
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: of it. It is brutal. It is brutal. She's reading
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: off cue cards. I mean, she's just not good on
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: camera in any way whatsoever. But you see the beginning
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: of the ecosystem of lab growing victimhood because that TED talk,
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: she got a lot of praise for, oh, you're a survivor.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: Everyone's championing that. And then with Clayton, so she would
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: use that on her self-help podcast to talk about her
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: experiences and You know, I'm sure she welcomed that feeling
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: of being like a survivor. And it's like, you know,
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: everyone's got, I mean, you know, it's so offensive to
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: anyone who's had to deal with any DV or anything,
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: you know, ever. It's just so offensive. It's offensive to
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: anyone who's tried to get pregnant or to anyone who's
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: had miscarriages because she used it all against people.
• 33:00
  Speaker 5: So.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: So with, you know, it's just like, but she also,
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: she like open mic'd and workshopped her scam with each guy.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: So she got better and better. What started with like
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: just an ultrasound photo became video, but it wasn't like
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: video that was easily tracked because she edited the video.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: But then it was still tracked, just not through like Google.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: You had to like go on YouTube and like scroll
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: till you found the videos.
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: But like what is her kink?
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: So- She gets a guy to kind of like her,
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: have some intimacy with her. And when they don't want
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: to be her boyfriend, then she says, well, I'm pregnant,
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: but I'll get rid of this pregnancy if you agree
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: to be my boyfriend. Then when they still don't want
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: to be her boyfriend, then to then, instead of going away,
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: then to punish them more, Then she gets this restraining
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: order so that she's always this person walking around going,
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: I have this crazy ex-boyfriend.
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: I just don't have a good picker.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: I haven't heard a good explanation from any psychologist other
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: than I think she wants to punish because it's then
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: not that she's a bad person. It's they are. You
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: don't want me. I'm good. You're bad.
• 34:16
  Speaker 4: So therefore— And then I.
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: Think it's in the— so then she punishes him that way.
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: But then also she has this narrative of that she's
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: actually had all these ex-boyfriends. When actually most of them
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: would say, we weren't in boyfriend and girlfriend. So it's
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: like you want to convince yourself that these were real relationships.
• 34:35
  Speaker 4: And then, of.
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: Course, the attention that you do get with the pregnancy,
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: and it's like the one thing that we of women
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: can do, that men cannot do you know it's one
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: it's special you know you can do it and you
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: can fake.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: It and it's believable walking around the supermarket when my
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: wife was at like full full term was amazing we
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: felt like we were in a parade everyone was so
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: nice to us because you like we all love we
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: all love like babies and pregnancies, like we're all happy.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: It's like, you really do get this kind of attention.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: You get a lot of attention.
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's why there's, you know, from the beginning
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: of time, there's women who have lied that this child
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: is mine.
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: And someone's like.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: People fake too... Women fake two things. I say women
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: because men don't get pregnant. Women fake pregnancies and cancer.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: And we expose that she faked ovarian cancer. We have cold,
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: hard facts that she not only faked ovarian cancer, but
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: she faked the medical letters from the actual doctors. where
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: she claimed to have cancer. Not only did she fake
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: ovarian cancer, but the photos that she used in faking
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: that cancer, she ended up using those same photos of
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: her in the same medical outfit to claim that she
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: was the victim of domestic violence. So she was so gun,
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: you know, just shooting from the hip that she didn't
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: remember her own lies. It wasn't until we were able
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: to access Mike's old laptop and hire the sort of like,
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: you know, the IT expert who literally testifies at like trials.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: We hired him and raised money to like verify because
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: we knew she was going to say that's not true.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: And we had like thousands of pages of documents of
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: her faking that all. And so a lot of that
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: she's never been charged with.
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: So again, when I've covered people that have had huge
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: fake cancer scams, which are just, you know, there's been
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: several in documentaries and they are fascinating.
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: And the denominator are, sadly, it's women.
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: Just like the majority of Munchausen's by proxy is almost
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: like 95% women. Men don't really do that with their children. And,
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: you know, it's all attention seeking. I don't know why women.
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: In general, as the other gender requires this kind of
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: attention more than men.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: Women are smarter. Like men, we like try to push
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: our way through situations. Like, you know, we're, we're aggressive
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: in that way. Not always, but you'll see like the
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: physical violence is primarily men. Like you'll punch a wall
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: when you're upset, your team lost. I'm going to throw
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: the clicker. Like we just like, that's it. Women are
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: smart though. And the ones that take advantage of the system,
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: they might see that who's going to question a cancer.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: Who's going to question a pregnancy. And this would have
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: never happened if it wasn't publicly, you know, discussed in
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: a way where other women called Laura out.
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think just like any scam, there is
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: a high that the person gets in.
• 37:31
  Speaker 4: Having you, like, believe it at first.
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: I mean, even if you're, you know, a big thing
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: with scammers is that they act like they can buy
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: a house.
• 37:42
  Speaker 4: Poor realtors.
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: Or car salesman, you know, and like go and act
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: like you're rich or you're dating a woman. And, you know,
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: the woman will be like, and then we.
• 37:52
  Speaker 4: Looked at $ 3 million houses. Turns out he had no
• 37:55
  Speaker 4: money at all. And then I lied about everything.
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: But I'm like the day of them going around the, the,
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: the joy that they think this girl is looking at like,
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: oh my God, I just found Prince Charming or the realtor.
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: Them thinking the realtors adding up the 60 grand, you know,
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: that she's going to get. And it's like there's something there.
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: And so I think the first time she did it,
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: just like any other addiction, when someone says they try
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: heroin for the first time and it's.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: Like, oh, my God. It's that dopamine rush.
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: I think there's something in that.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: It's, you know, it's worked before. And then she changes
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: it a little bit for each person. Yeah, she tweaked
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: it because she would start to get caught. I mean,
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: this ovarian cancer she faked, she literally had the doctor
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: write her a note. and again, it sounds so foolish
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: in hindsight, where the doctor says, yes, Laura, we think
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: that your boyfriend should help take care of you while
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: you recover.
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: It's amazing.
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: It's amazing the emails from the Love Trapped Long podcast
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: that you're part of, which is this actor read them
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: and read these letters. And it's like, so clearly she
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: wrote them herself. Like, you know, barely does a doctor
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: even like even talk to you again like you know
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: and like that's full nice insurance like what doctor is
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: like writing.
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: A long thing yeah about like wow and.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: We're so sorry to hear that you're impersonating doctors lawyer
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: and these aren't just right these are like really stole
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: their identity these are like these are verifiable people she
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: stole a law firm um and then of course the
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: black journalist she created to come after me that was
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: like a complete fabrication what's that story that's chase jones
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: she created this guy to cancel clayton And we tried
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: to subpoena him when she sued me and he doesn't exist.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: But she filed those documents through L.A. County Superior Court
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: claiming to be Chase Jones. So she's like literally impersonate
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: people through like California could totally come after her for that.
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: We revealed we learned that that she that her cell
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: phone number was behind the creation of the Chase Jones
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: YouTube channel. Cause like I'm a YouTuber. We were able
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: to figure out through a two factor authentication that she
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: faked that she faked that too, which was like the
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: big kind of like fun mystery. Cause it was more,
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: it was less harmful because it was like, I've been
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: on the winning side of this. But at the time
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: it was like, we needed to know all of this
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: because she was going to, and will still come after us.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: So with Clayton, she, so he passes up on that
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: real estate deal and, And then, and so right as
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: this thing's about to go to trial, right? She sends
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: him a letter. saying, I'm going to sue you.
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: And what's the initial trial of why they're going to trial?
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: It's an evidentiary hearing. So because our audience raised money
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: for Clayton, and by the way, this is why I
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: had all this beef with Nick Vile, because he didn't
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: cover it when we needed the help. He covered it afterwards.
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: But we raised his 10 grand overnight to get him
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: the lawyer that previously represented Greg Gillespie, one of the
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: other victims, because the lawyer knew that as soon as
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: Laura claimed a miscarriage, that her family court thing goes away.
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: So Laura was using.
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: And then she could go on to somebody else and
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: it all just goes away.
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: Oh, and like the bachelor was a deadbeat dad. She
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: was going to ride that pony forever. There would have
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: been no evidence of it. So Clayton's lawyer, Greg Woodnick,
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: great guy.
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: So without the 10K, Clayton just didn't have the means
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: to hire an attorney to fight This false.
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Like respectfully, I mean this with like respect for
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: him is that he has all this pride that he
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: wanted to do it himself. He's like a DIY. He
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: got himself to be a pro football player. He's he's
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: like really like done it himself. And we were like, Bubba,
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: like you're doing great. But we were watching the trial
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: play out like these little hearings. And he was getting
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: they were objecting to things like he just didn't have
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: that legal vocabulary to know what to do. So Woodnick
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: is like, you need to file for the punitive registry
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: for father's. which means if Laura claims that she's going
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: to give the baby up for adoption, the babies we
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: knew were fake, that he would get, he was claiming
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: to be the father of these unborn, of these fake babies.
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: Which is basically, I'm calling you on your BS. Yeah,
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: and it's just like, so he'd protect himself there. So
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: at that point, it's like, she'd have to go to
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: some third world country and claim she just gave him
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: up for adoption because in the first world, it's like protected.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: So then Woodnick was like, we're going to fight over
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: the bill. Who's going to pay for this? Because that's
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: the only way to keep the court case alive. Because
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: she can dismiss her claims- that whatever she was claiming
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: in family court, and then it just walks away. So
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: that was what they were now fighting over. And because
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: of that, they were able to depose each other and
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: get her on record to more lies. They got her to, like, really,
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: they pinned her down with all these lies. And right
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: before the trial, she was like, she wrote him a
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: letter saying, I'm going to sue you for $ 1. 7 million.
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: To Clayton. Yeah, because of the lost money I would
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: have made in that real estate deal. Now, of course,
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: that would have meant that she paid 100% cash and
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: all of these other things. It was an absolute extortion letter.
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: She never got, I don't think she ever got charged
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: for extortion, but that's what it was. And they ripped
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: it up and then they took her to court and
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: then they won. And she owes him like a quarter
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: million dollars. And now she's like, obviously not going to
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: pay a cent, but her own lawyer has like kind
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: of gone down on a sinking ship with her on
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: this one.
• 43:01
  Speaker 4: So I want to talk a little bit about that.
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: First, I want to say in the reddit world so
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: then she claims to be a victim of you because
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: she said by you reporting on all of this she's
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: gotten such horrible backlash and people are discussing her on
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: reddit and saying these awful things and death threats well
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: as we know reddit's all anonymous and anybody can write
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: anything and you.
• 43:25
  Speaker 4: Could have 20.
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: 000 aliases i bet she was bullying herself Oh, yeah, sure.
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: And loving to keep it going. Because I'm like, this
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: is enjoyable. I don't think she wants it to go away.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, she was fighting with people online. And, you know,
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: at the time, this was a couple years ago, but
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: she was probably using, like, ChatGPT to just, like, streamline
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: a lot of her fighting. She was pretty, like, tech savvy.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: She had a lot going on. And things that we couldn't, as, like,
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: public investigators, the audience couldn't crack into her laptop. But
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: when she got raided, they were able to find out
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: real stuff. We knew she faked pregnancy because there's a
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: video of her dad rubbing her belly, but it was
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: really her sister's belly. Now, we knew that because she
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: cut the audio out and she cropped it. And that
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: was a video that she what? Sent to one of
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: the guys? To Clayton. Like, I'm pregnant. Here it is.
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: And it was like a big old belly.
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: Well, it's supposed to be twins, right? Yeah. But then
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: also in the lie, then she says one, she lost one.
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: Didn't she at one point say she lost one of
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: the twins?
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: With Greg, she took, so this, this is why it's,
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: this is why it's tough for Greg because he hasn't
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: really spoken in the documentary. And he, he was like
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: aggressive with her, which he should have been because he
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: was onto it right away. He was like, I wore
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: a condom. I pulled out. She's not pregnant. So she's like,
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: I'm going to, I'll, if you date me, I'll take
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: the abortion pills. So he was like, okay, all right, sure.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: Let's go for it. And he was like, you know,
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: he's like, I'll play that game. So he, so she,
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: she like takes the pills and then he's like, I'm done.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: Get out of here. And then, and then she goes,
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: and then like a few days later, well, the pills
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: didn't work. Only one of the babies is dead.
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: And that's where like the, she gets the doctor's note
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: where it was like, Oh, actually you did it.
• 45:11
  Speaker 4: And we really hope that your pregnancy continues to grow. Yeah.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: And it's like, and that's when we found out she
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: stole the, these ultrasounds from a lady in Texas who
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: did lose her baby to the vanishing baby syndrome, which
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: is when one twin passes horrible stuff. So our audience
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: was just like, our audience, we raised money for that
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: surviving baby who's now probably like eight or nine years
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: old to like go on a great trip. Like we
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: just felt bad that she was sucked into this.
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: And this was just a woman that had a small
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: blog following, right?
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she was. Her chapter is like, I think it's
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: called Mend Mothers Enduring Neonatal Death. Terrible. To think that
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: she put her story out there to help others. And
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: then she stole that actual ultrasound. She stole that ultrasound.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: And then that was the ultrasound, which when we investigated
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: and zoomed into it on my desktop, we would have
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: never seen this just on a normal, like everything was
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: being shared mobily. But when you really looked into it,
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: that's where we found the Fiverr logo. What does Fiverr say?
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: Fiverr is a company that you can hire someone to
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: like do Photoshop. Or like anything. It's just like F-I-V-E-R-R
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: or whatever. F-I-V-E-R-R.
• 46:17
  Speaker 4: So she did that to Photoshop like her name on it?
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: My guess is that she hired someone to try to
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: alter the image so it wouldn't be Google like reverse searched.
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: And my guess is she never paid for it. So
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: they have a Fiverr logo as a watermark. And so
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: what she did, and again, I have no idea how
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: it got there, but which is so funny that it
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: turns out her not paying for the like her being
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: cheap and not paying for the thing is what made
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: that logo be there. What we found was a reverse watermark.
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: So like, it was basically like the inverse logo and
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: you just can't see it because it's, you know, ultrasound's
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: like black and white and it's, but when you zoom
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: it in and overlay this Fiverr logo, it fits. It's
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: like the words are there and you can't unsee it
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: once you see it. It's like one of those like
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: puzzles you look at. It's there.
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: When you were doing your show prior to this big story,
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: just doing, you know, other pop culture things or things
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: that interest you. Sometimes you're political and things like that.
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: What was it about this that really sucked you in
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: and then realized, like, this is kind of my, like,
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: my duty in life to, like, pursue this?
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would have never thought it would have taken
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: so much of my life up. But at the time,
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: I was making full-time Bachelor content. So that was already
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: my world. And then when she started coming, she threatened
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: to sue me like nearly immediately, within weeks. So then
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: it became, I better be on the right side of
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: this story. So it really just became a project of
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: telling the truth to protect my family, knowing she was
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: going to sue me one way or another.
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: So right when the story came out, when she put
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: it out, we all thought that he was the, you know,
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: the deadbeat dad of a pregnant woman.
• 48:04
  Speaker 4: Did you.
• 48:06
  Speaker 4: Doubt her story off the top?
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: I didn't believe it because she said she was afraid
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: for the safety of her unborn children and it just
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: read weird. So I didn't believe it, but I also
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: was like, shoot, I can't, I can't, I, you know,
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: I was pretty neutral because like, I thought Clayton was
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: a good guy, but like, I've thought that about other
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: people and they turned out to be monsters. So I
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: wasn't going to like, like ride on, ride on his team.
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: But within days, within days, it was linked together that
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: she had done this previously. And at that point, the
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: whole internet turned on investigating her and like, she's been
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: literally on her heels ever since. And she hasn't, like,
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: she went from being in charge for years to like,
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: she has not won one inch of the battle since then.
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: And that's when everything else was exposed. Just like system,
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: just systematically, boom, one thing after another.
• 48:55
  Speaker 4: Do you think she regrets?
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: Making the story public with Clayton because if she had
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: not then she could have done this to other guys
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: and kept it going that were not famous.
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah I mean if she eventually did the restraining order
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: against him it probably would have gotten out so like
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: whether she made the story public or not the fact
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: that she fucked with a.
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: Like I mean it's the first famous person that she
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: did this to oh.
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: She would she could have done this 50 times in
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: a row.
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: That's what I'm saying if she didn't choose a famous person...
• 49:22
  Speaker 4: Because even if.
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: You're right.
• 49:23
  Speaker 4: If she didn't make it, he might.
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: Have made it public. That's why I say how ironic
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: that it was leaked to the sun and then she
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: flew too close to the sun. It's literally like... It's
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: a Greek tragedy that she got too high on what
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: she thought she could get away with and then... And
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: then she kind of went for the bigger story. I mean,
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: imagine The Bachelor. Like, that would have been a big
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: story as, like, a victim.
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: I mean, like I said, there's been so many men
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: that are love-bombing scammers, grifters of women's hearts.
• 49:54
  Speaker 4: There's, you know, what was that one? Swindler, Flindler, whatever.
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, the Tindler. Tindler, Swindler.
• 50:03
  Speaker 4: And there's so many like that.
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: And I would cover it a lot because I'm like,
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: Girls are like, finally, someone gets me like he loves
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: me this much. I must be this must be right
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: because he's so into me and he's blinded by the love,
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: the greatest thing ever. And I thought to myself before
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: this case, I guess it doesn't really happen to women
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: because the to men being the victims, because it's just
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: a woman being like a gold digger or just a woman.
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: And you or you kind of know.
• 50:33
  Speaker 4: If this girl is much younger and hotter than you,
• 50:36
  Speaker 4: she's not really with you.
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: Well, use whatever tools you can. If you're some like
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: douchebag improv guy, you're going to be like, let's go
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: practice improv. You've heard it every, let's go write together.
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: Like you just use whatever tools you have. Right.
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: And so for the, so I always thought there's probably
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: a lot of guys that get swindled out of some
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: money from a woman and they have their pride and
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: they're like, I'm not going to go to the police
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: department and say, go after this stripper.
• 51:00
  Speaker 4: Who said she was in love with me.
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: Especially if they're cheating.
• 51:02
  Speaker 4: The cops will laugh.
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Because it happens in New York clubs where, like, someone,
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: they'll target a guy, they'll hook up with him, and then, like,
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: I'm pregnant. And what's the guy going to go, no,
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: you're not? And she's like, well, I guess I'll tell
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: Tanya on Facebook that I'm pregnant. We'll see how that goes.
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: All right, here's 10 grand. Get the abortion.
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: Get out of here.
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: And that's the end of it. Right, exactly. But that's
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: a different scam.
• 51:19
  Speaker 4: That's a different thing.
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: And so I'm like, the thing that makes this story
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: so unique is this is a very unique scam.
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: And.
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: grift and whatever but she's also not like I talk
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: about this movie all the time because it was a
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: it was a scripted movie it was called Black Widow
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: and it was like I loved watching it because this
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: really pretty woman would go and like now she's a
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: Dallas socialite now she's like a Hawaiian hippie and meet
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: rich guys and whatever and again this is different than
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: that because she was living with her parents in the
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: casita in in Scottsdale and And the mom and the
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: dad and it even appears the sister has like stood
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: by her.
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: And the mom's like had won a Pulitzer as a reporter.
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: The mom's evil. And I didn't think the mom, I
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: thought she was faking the mom because I couldn't believe
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: the emails that were coming out. You should date my daughter.
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: Give her a chance. But then it turns out you
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: watch the body cam footage. The mom's. trying to smear me. Oh,
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: he's just some podcaster trying to whatever. Like she's evil.
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: And then there's this idea, well, allegedly Ron Owens cheated
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: on her. So maybe she's like man-hating.
• 52:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: So maybe she's like out to get it and living
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: through her daughter. Who the hell knows?
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: Is the Ron Owens radio host guy, is he still
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: doing radio?
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: No, he's like got Parkinson's and he's in rough shape.
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: So he is truly sick. He's sick. Okay, that part's true.
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: And they're broke. So the family's filed for bankruptcy. And
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: they've had some issues. Like their home was supposed to
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: go to the auction this month. And I think they're
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: delaying it. So this is literally a guy who is
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: making $ 1. 4 million a year who has a $ 25, 000 a
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: month pension still. So he's getting $ 25, 000 a month. And
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: they got wiped out by a YouTuber. Like that's how
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: far they let this whole wildfire go. They're living in squalor.
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: And Laura lived in squalor in San Francisco. She was
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: impersonating her sister. So her sister is kind of complicit
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: in some of her crimes. Which I don't even blame her.
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: She impersonated her sister.
• 53:23
  Speaker 4: How did she do that?
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: Just to stay in a rent-controlled place. So I'm like,
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: I get it. Like, oh, I'll take over the contract. Oh, yeah,
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: I'm Sarah.
• 53:29
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: But she was like, and I empathize with Laura because
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: she would take care of, like, elderly dogs. I had
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: one at the time. My dog passed where you have
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: to have the dog in diapers. But she was living
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: in this old, like, rent-controlled apartment where she'd leave, like,
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: the waste in the communal hallway. And, you know, she
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: was calling the cops on people back then. She was
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: sued for equestrian. I think she fluffed some numbers to
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: sell a horse for money. What does that mean, fluff
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: some numbers? I think she fluffed some numbers to sell
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: a horse.
• 53:56
  Speaker 4: Oh, fluff some numbers.
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 53:58
  Speaker 4: I thought you meant like a fluffer, like a porn
• 54:00
  Speaker 4: fluffer with a horse.
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: I'm like, what are you talking about? If it could
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: make a buck, she probably would. But yeah, it's reckless.
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: This guy, Sean- hasn't received his justice. He had a
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: construction company and she like got him to admit to something,
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: you know, just like on like, like, oh yeah, we,
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: we must've done the wrong fence that you wanted. Like
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: she got him to, he was just trying to be nice.
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: Like the customer's always right. And she used it against him.
• 54:21
  Speaker 4: Were they dating?
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: Nope.
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: But he said, but he said, and I've, I've spoken
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: to him. He said that he thought there was some
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: weird stuff where she was getting close to him and
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: his own like relative was like, this is weird. So like,
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: you just don't know. It's like any tool, any tool
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: in the, in the, in the box that she has,
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: will be used and it's dangerous. And so like, she's
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: been seen on local dating sites like the league and
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: it's like, who's next? And yeah, so it was like-
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: How old is she now? She's like 35, 36. And
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: she's got, so like parents, parents are about to be homeless,
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: although they're like, again, they could just move to Boca
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: Raton and live perfectly fine off 25K a month. The
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: fact that like she tried to get like a state
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: appointed attorney because she was claiming she was broke and
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: she was given a plea deal. So two weeks after
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: I go on your show, two weeks after that, May 6th, 2025,
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: my son's birthday, I'm at, you know, the Nashville sound
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: baseball game, watching the minor league baseball game. And everyone's
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: blowing me up. Can you believe it? Laura Owens was
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: charged with seven felonies. We really didn't think it was
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: going to happen because people get away with this. Those
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: seven felonies later became 14. So she's been charged with
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: 14 felonies. And what are the felonies? I don't, I
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: can't tell you every single one, but it's, it's like,
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: it's like that the belly photo, they were able to
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: find the real one. So she lied about that. She
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: lied about.
• 55:43
  Speaker 4: And that's a, that's a felony.
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: Well, she lied in court. Oh, so, so she perjured herself.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: So the felony is perjury.
• 55:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: So this stuff never went to court. I mean, they
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: could have gotten her in like impersonation, but. they were
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: like lying, lying under oaths, lying under deposition, um, things
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: that again, they're normally hard to prove, but in today's world,
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: there is a lot of evidence out there of, of
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: what people say and do in that court hearing. She
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: claimed she went to mission Viejo to get the ultrasound,
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: this ultrasound, everyone knew it was fake. And then they
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: asked her what date it was. And then they found
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: out that date was a Sunday and that one's closed
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: on a Sunday. Oh no, I went to this one.
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: Like she just lying out of her ass. Um, and so, Yeah.
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: So right now she's charged with 14 felonies, which could
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: be like combined sentences, like 50 to 70 years. It's
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: a lot. So the plea deal is always like plead
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: guilty that you faked this, this and this and we'll
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: give you, you know, a probation. And it's normally very lenient.
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: My sources tell me the plea deal would involve jail time.
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: But being at a county jail is different than like
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: the state prisons. And so which is worse. The prison
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: is actually better because you've got this funding where like
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: you get to see therapists and go to school and
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: work and do all these things. But it's usually longer.
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: So she would probably get if I had to guess
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: if she if she takes a plea deal, she would
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: probably have to go to this jail for 30 to
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: 60 days and be done with it. If she doesn't
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: take it, she's going to be found guilty of all
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: these crimes. Only 2% of court of these cases in
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: Arizona go to trial because 98% of the time people
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: are smart and they just take the plea. They go,
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: all right, I'll plead to these lesser charges. And like,
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: let's just get this thing out of our way. Let's
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: be done with it. I'll be a convicted felon. I
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: don't think she's going to do that. And you can't
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: just plead to certain things. And then later on say
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: they forced me. I was lying. You know, it's like
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: she's stuck. She's literally stuck, but she missed the plea
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: extension deadline, which is kind of arbitrary. And she has
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: up until trial to agree to the plea or negotiate
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: something else. She hired an attorney for $ 50, 000. God knows
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: where the money came from because she claims she's never
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: made any money.
• 57:55
  Speaker 4: Well, the parents, obviously.
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but they're also broke. Like they've sunk whatever they
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: had left.
• 57:58
  Speaker 4: Then she got a new attorney for 50K, you mean?
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah. After the state won, she got one.
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: Who was the other attorney that was featured in the
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: podcast that did like a Christmas YouTube.
• 58:10
  Speaker 4: Special with her?
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: So that's David Gingras. He's a piece of shit. Like
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: this guy's garbage, right? So he threatens me immediately. He
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: was hired to come in and ruffle feathers to try
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: to get us to shut the fuck up. And the
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: exact opposite happened. We doubled down and we found even
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: more evidence against her. It's because of that one attorney
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: that we ever found any of this evidence. So he
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: was like bad news for her and he ended up
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: working for free and he was doing all this PR
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: and lawyers couldn't believe that he was saying all of
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: this publicly.
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: Why do you, do you think that he was buying?
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: I think maybe he was interested in her. That's definitely
• 58:44
  Speaker 3: a thought that people have is like, I don't understand
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: why this, why this attorney is giddy. Listen, I get everybody.
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: There are so many, there are attorneys, there are doctors
• 58:56
  Speaker 3: that all just want to be famous too.
• 58:59
  Speaker 4: They would give up their practice to be famous. On
• 59:03
  Speaker 4: YouTube or be on a.
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: Reality show in a hot second. So it's like maybe
• 59:07
  Speaker 3: he was just a thirsty attorney.
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: He had already had. some publicity. He was defending the
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: guy who had a website where they posted revenge porn,
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: and he was defending someone's First Amendment rights. So he
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: claimed to be this attorney who was so pro-First Amendment right,
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: but then in his bio at one time on Twitter,
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: it literally said, I'm here to defend your First Amendment
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: right unless your name's Dave Neal. He literally... was like
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: trying to make jokes about the fact that he was
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: coming after me.
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: And why were they acting like it was such a
• 59:36
  Speaker 3: horrible thing that you were doing this?
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: Because at the time, I was really the only one.
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: If you could cut my head off, a lot of
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: the other things might have gone away. Because at the time,
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: there weren't many people talking about it because they had
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: already threatened to sue everyone they could. Like we had
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: friends who have podcasts in The Bachelor World. If you
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: have the same opinion Dave has, you will get sued
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: as well.
• 59:56
  Speaker 4: And so some of them were just like, forget it.
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: All of them.
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: They did the same thing to Nick. He bitched out
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: like everyone else. He bitched out.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: So you think they reached out to Nick and that's
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: why Nick. So why did he eventually do the interview
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: only after it was all.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: Safe at that point? Like, like the, the publicity turned
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: on Clayton and it was a little bit better. And
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: it was like, there was no, I mean, it's like, look,
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: I'm if you're some random podcaster, I've got tons of
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: friends that didn't cover it. It's like, all right, that's
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: not your cup of tea. But like he had the
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: size to help Clayton and, And I had raised this
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: big stink with all of the alumni being like, y'all
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: could have shared his GoFundMe on Instagram. You could have
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: made something not about you for a second. I got
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: blasted by some people for putting pressure. And I used
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: all of like the equity, like the bandwidth that I
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: had to try to pressure people to help him because
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: like I needed the truth to come out too. And honestly,
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: a lot of people just like were like, fuck off, Dave.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: Like literally fuck off.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 4: Here's the thing. I.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 3: I have been in a position where I reached out
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: to people with a link and I was like, you know,
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: if you share this story. And I realize now why
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: people would say no.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 4: And we are changing.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: Just podcasters and you know some people are more journalistic
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 3: other people are more comedic.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: Yes it's like not they're they're not diving.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: Into it some people are writing me like please cover
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 3: this story and I'm like I just don't know enough
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: about it and like yeah But with this.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 4: I understand.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: Well, it's like a union. It's like you're all on
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: the same team. I wasn't on the show. I don't
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: expect anyone to stick up for me, but I know
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: Reality Steve will. I know that she's all batch. I
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: know that Game of Roses, I know that they would
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: stick up for me because they understand as an independent podcaster,
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: if I go broke over some bullshit lawsuit- that they
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: might be next. Right. And it's like, and again, I'm
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: not here to call people out, but like where the, the, the,
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: the bachelor alumni that were interested in like all of
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: the social justice, like where, where, where were they? Where
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: was Rachel Lindsay? Nick, Nick, he gave Nick all the info.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: Nick literally, he said my name in the pot. When
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: Nick finally allowed him on, he said my name, like
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: Dave Neal helped me out. They edited my name out.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: I'll be fine, but I'm not gonna be pushed around
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: because someone fucked on TV and I didn't. You know
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: what I mean? I'm not gonna be pushed around because
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: his show's bigger than mine is. I built my shit
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: from literally nothing. I didn't have to get the check
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: mark from ABC to make my stuff where I am.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying. I wish people would stick up for
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: me if I was being accused of things the way
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: I stuck up for Clayton. So like, I don't need
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: the victory lap, but like, don't go, don't go have
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: them on when it's all safe and think that you're
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: like helping this, like, you know what I mean?
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 4: So I totally, I totally get what you mean.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 3: Um, in that case, and that's really lame to like
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: cut out your name because you do deserve all the
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 3: props and you do deserve, you know, getting the story
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 3: to this place, to this long form podcast.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: It's been a hell of a victory lap. Like my,
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: and again, I take the credit. There's so many people
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: that did so much work that didn't want their faces
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: shown or whatever. It literally was a whole ecosystem. And
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: we were the first people that were monetizing what Laura
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: was doing. So like we were able to create an
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: ecosystem to combat her. And I told her that I
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: was like, I'll make money off of every one of
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: these videos. I'm going to have ads slapped on them.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: And you're not going to make me go bankrupt like
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: all these other guys you did. And she thought she,
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: you know, tried to use that against me. And I
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: was like, I don't give a fuck what you're trying
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: to use against me. Like, this is the business I'm
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: covering it. And there's no quicksand here. Like you, you
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: can't bankrupt me like these other guys who just wanted
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: her to go away. So, yeah. So it's like, there's
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: people like Hannah Godwin who like makes dresses or some
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: cup sheet bikinis. Like, I don't expect them to go
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: to bat for him, but like, for everyone who's so
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: obsessed with the bachelor all the alumni like where the
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: fuck were you on the biggest story that ever happened
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: in bachelor.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 3: Nation well i mean listen in this business hollywood and
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 3: podcast it's very hypocritical and people will you know fight
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 3: for the thing that they think is important and then
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: there's other.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: Times stick up for each other though like stand-up comedians
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: stick up for each other not all the time but
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: usually on like on like like if you're trying to
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: be funny or first amendment stuff, usually there's like core
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: stuff that you're like, we have to go to bat
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: for each other because like, they'll pick us off one
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: by one. You know?
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 4: I mean, I agree.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 3: And then there's times where you can always conveniently act
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 3: like you didn't see the message, didn't see the DM.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 4: It's not really my thing. Or listen, I've got big things.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 3: Going on and I'm about to like blow up or
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 3: I have a I have this new management company and
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: they are saying they abs, I cannot F with you.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 3: I cannot hang out with you. I can't be seen
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 3: with you. Like that is the truth. And I think
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: being that this was an ABC bachelor from the very beginning,
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 3: ABC didn't want that stink on them. The bachelor didn't
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 3: want that stink on them. So if you are still
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 3: in a world where you might get to host something
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 3: or be on an alumni bachelor in paradise or something and,
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 3: And you get word like, hey, don't cover this story.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 3: There's a million other things to cover.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 4: And that's what happens, you know? And you, you know.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 3: I'm sure you're grateful now, but you should be grateful
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 3: that you were one of the few people because now when,
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 3: when this stuff happens, there's not going to be 35
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 3: other people they can grab from.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 3: Like when I talk about a real housewives thing and
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 3: then they, you know, use little sound bites, it's me
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 3: and 12 other people sound bites.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Who cares?
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah. I sleep well at night. It's just, but
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: it's interesting to look at because I've met his parents
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: and I've met, um, Danielle Maricini, Mike's wife who had to,
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: deal with not knowing for sure if she should believe
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: her husband when he made all of his like claims,
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: like he was being, you know, accused of all these things.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: Like you meet them and you go like, man, like
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: this community has been robbed of so many years of
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: joy because of her.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 3: But yeah, the distress of something like an, an unlawful lawsuit.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 3: And even though someone could tell you like, look, it's
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 3: not real. It's going to come out depending on your
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 3: own emotional makeup, like it can be completely crippling, debilitating,
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 3: takes your creativity away. Like the frivolous lawsuits and stuff
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 3: like that are just awful.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: And he doesn't have any corporate money. Like legal abuse,
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: you know, like he makes his money primarily, he has
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: an Airbnb and then he makes it doing cameo. So
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: he's like funded by the people. It's like very democratic.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: Like he makes fun dance videos. He decided to use
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: dance as his therapy and, I bet he'll be on
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: Dancing with the Stars once. I think this documentary will
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: happen in a year or two down the road. He'll
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: be on Dancing with the Stars and finally get a
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: little bit of like love, you know? But he's like,
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: he doesn't need it.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 3: I still think there's certain stories and certain lawsuits and
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 3: things that I mentioned just don't get the correct response
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 3: because of what you said.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 4: It's not an easy thing.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 3: It's not an easy victimization or it's too ugly or
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 3: it looks like it's anti-woman.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 4: And this kind of is one. I think it will
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 4: make a great movie.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 3: I think there'll be money and profits to be had
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 3: for you and for him and for, you know, if
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 3: she was ever willing to really come forward, it would be,
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 3: but she would have to admit.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: I'll never make any money off of this. Like my,
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: my I've moved, I'm like so many stories past this,
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: but it's still interesting because like, I will be a
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: witness if it does go to trial. Right.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 3: But I'm saying like, I'm just saying, but with certain
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 3: other stories, like, I've talked about the Bravo reckoning, the
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 3: reality reckoning that like Bethany tried to do.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, the fans don't want.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 3: To get behind that because the result is that reality
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 3: shows kind of end. So we don't really want the
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 3: reality stars to you know, have unions and things like that. So,
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 3: and they don't feel sorry for them and they're kind
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 3: of jealous. So it's like that story just doesn't go.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: It's so interesting how certain reality shows generate no following
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: like Survivor. You don't get a following from that because
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: it's like the show's over when it's over. Hannah Brown,
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: who has been promoting Love Trapped because she was like
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: kind of like the biggest, like Hannah Brown, when her
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: season ended, she was like, maybe I'll go on a
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: date with Tyler Cameron. They walked off. They made this
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: whole like after the rose thing. their followers went crazy
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: because the parasocial love relationship transcends what happens on the show.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: No one's following Survivor to be like, let's see if
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: he opens up that taco shop. It's just like done.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: So with Clayton, he does have, like I said, he's
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: funded by like these cameos. Like he does have this
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: loyal audience and there are mainly women following true crime
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: that are sharing the story being like, rather, because I
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: understand the point where people were like, are people not
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: going to believe victims now? And I don't think that's
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: the case. I think- No, not at all.
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 3: But I think there's just certain- Like when you see
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 3: like a dancing with stars and I'm not saying he
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 3: won't get dancing with stars. and i do think it's
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 3: the biggest freaking nightmare when you listen to it you're
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 3: like this chick is just a relentless nightmare and i
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 3: believe there are huge victims you know and i think
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 3: she's like the most annoying thing with an enabling mom
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 3: and i think i legal abuse and all that stuff
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 3: i hate it But I'm just saying as far as
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 3: like a PR easy thing versus someone who became famous
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 3: maybe on reality TV because their boyfriend fucked their best friend, Scandival, Ariana.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: Perfect. Oh, she's perfect.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah, easy.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 3: You know, like it has to be like a perfect
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 3: storm and– you know, this is just because of all
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 3: the reasons you said.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: I hope we can clip this to then him being, no,
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: I'm dancing with the song.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 4: I wanted to get to it.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: I totally agree with you.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 4: I think he deserves it. I would like to see it.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: Well, that would only happen if it becomes baby reindeer
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: level where it's like Christmas comes out and this is
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: your must binge thing. Eight episodes. Crazy. Because obviously the
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: video will be way stronger than the audio.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 3: And then really falling in love with him again and
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 3: realizing he's like a great guy and this is like
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 3: his only dream and She even used that too. She
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 3: tried to say, I, through my radio famous dad, we
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 3: know somebody at Dancing with the Stars. So I just
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 3: want to make sure, like, you know, I'm sure this,
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 3: I mean, I've had weird things like that happen where
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 3: I've like blown someone off. Not romantic because I've been
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 3: married forever, but like blown someone off. And they're like, okay,
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 3: I just want to make sure, you know, like it
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 3: was business wise, like you're not interested in this thing.
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, B.S. But in my day, there'd be
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 4: times I'm like.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: Oh, there's so much B.S. in Hollywood where everyone says
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: they know someone. And there was a Shane Gillis had
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: that story where he were like a comic who had
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: never performed before, called the club and said, I'm Shane's guy. Right.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: And called Shane and said, I'm the club's guy. And
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: next thing you know, he's on stage. And they said, like,
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: where do you want the light? And he said, on me.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: But like some people have that delusion where they can
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: like slime their way in with a couple of name drops. And, like,
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: I think most people, like, you got to trust your gut.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: But also, like, good example that, like, just people, if
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: you have something that someone wants to take, you just
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: got to be guarded. And Clayton has talked a lot
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: about that, where he talks about, like, maybe I need
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: to hold myself to a higher standard so I'm not
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: just banging the realtor. Like, not that he did.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 4: You're banging the client, yeah.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but, like, yeah, oh, yeah. But, like, hold yourself
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: to that level.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah, and how easy, like, for a good-looking guy,
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 3: especially in this day and age, how easy it is for.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 4: A lot of guys to get laid.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: And I won't throw rocks because I've been there in
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: my single days where like the night's over, you're on
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: the couch having a pizza and you're texting with somebody.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: You know, you get the equestrian booty photo slide in.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: I'm not here to judge anybody. Consensual, have fun, do
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: whatever you want. It's just like, gosh, is that. And again,
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: it only happens mainly to athletes, people that have money.
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: You know, like there's always the stories of like an
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: athlete meeting the wrong person in their DMs. And it
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: doesn't always have.
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 3: It doesn't have to be someone famous or rich either.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 3: And this is one of the stories. But there was
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 3: a crime I covered that the guy was not set
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 3: in the world necessarily on fire. But this woman wanted
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 3: him all for herself. And she was so jealous. that
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 3: he was, you know, had seen this girl and maybe
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 3: was talking to her again, that then she killed the girl.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 4: And then it.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 3: Really, she got convicted, but it really like effed him
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 3: up forever because it was like, honestly, it's not his fault,
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 3: but had he been more of a standup guy and
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 3: not playing with multiple women's emotions and throwing your dick
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 3: around and being dishonest, by having somebody on the side
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 3: or revisiting someone on the side, maybe the crazy bitch
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 3: girlfriend wouldn't have killed your side chick.
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: When I say, like, there are stories that have happened
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: recently of women literally cutting a baby out of another
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: woman's belly.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 4: Oh, yeah.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: And my wife was pregnant.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 3: Those have been around for years, by the way.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: We were like 10 weeks pregnant when this thing started.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: And by the time we announced our pregnancy, we announced
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: pretty late because we wanted to tell our family in person.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: And it was like now people can understand why we
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: went so hard on this, because it's like, did did
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: we have any rational fear that Laura Owens was going
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: to try to steal my wife's baby? What's even rational
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: at this point? She's doing insane things. Yeah, there was
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: there's always like we had tons of fear. And my
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: wife still does because they've threatened to, you know, you know,
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: they've tried to get the sheriffs to show up to
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: our door. They've called the FBI.
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 3: How did they try to get the sheriff's computer?
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: Well, through trying to serve me the harassment lawsuit.
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: Oh.
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: And we didn't know at the time. We found out
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: afterwards that the judge had struck it down. Normally, they
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: give you the temporary restraining order and you have like
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: a month where it's like, all right, this is the
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: judge saying, knock it off. For the month, don't touch,
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: don't talk to each other. Then we'll present our thing
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: in court. And that's what I assumed was going to
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: happen with me. But then that was shut down. So
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: then when it came time to actually have a hearing,
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: cause she was suing me for harassment. Um, she finally, after,
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: after months of waiting for that trial date, she, like
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: the night before claimed, uh, she, she, we signed an
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: agreement that was like all of the, she had like
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: points she wanted to make that I wouldn't like have anyone,
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't promote any like violence towards her, which would
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: have been illegal. You can't promote violence towards anybody. That's
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: not protecting on the first amendment. And so then we
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: signed that. And then that night she got a death threat,
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: probably from herself.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 4: Probably from herself.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: And I came in that night and we're like, good God.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: So like, she wanted to flirt with this line where
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 2: she didn't want to be in court.
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 3: That's a really lame thing too, where I've been, you know,
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 3: a victim of that. And like I said, you don't
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 3: know where it's coming, where somebody, you know, shares that
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 3: they got not a death threat, but let's say a horrible.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 4: Thing to say.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 3: And they like post that on a story and, And
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 3: in that horrible thing, it's like, because of what you
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 3: did to HMD, Heather McDonald, we hope this awful thing
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 3: happens to you. And then, like, reposted that. And I
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 3: saw it. And I was like, I do not incite
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 3: people to go after people. And this is probably somebody
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 3: else posing like a fan of mine, doing this, or.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 4: You did it yourself.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: It's like a little Jussie Smolletti.
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 4: Like, yes, you did it yourself. Like, what are you
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 4: talking about?
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: And that exists.
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 3: Unless you have the podcast where I'm saying, listen, everybody,
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 3: I want you to DM this person.
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, go beat the shit out of Becky. You can't
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 2: say that. You can't tell someone to go beat the
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: shit out of somebody.
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 3: So it's like, and there's, yeah, but that probably happens.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 3: So then when that came up, the death threat, We.
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: Just, I couldn't believe it. I bought my, I had
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: bought my refundable ticket.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 4: Probably said Dave Neal. No, told me that you did
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 4: it today.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: Dave Neal.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 4: I just want you to know, I help you. And
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 4: you're alive.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: I didn't even say her name for the first year.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: I called her Jane Doe. We just like, we were like,
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: we're not even saying her name. We're trying to get
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: the justice.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 4: Then what happened once that came out? Then the whole thing.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: Well, nothing because like she had, she had agreed to
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: drop the harassment suit against me. She was going to lose,
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: but I would have had to go to court and,
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: And I still had to pay my attorney, all of that. And,
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: you know, I was prepared, obviously. I never thought she
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: would actually show up for the court because she just
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: like bails on these things. And, yeah, I just moved
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: on with my life. I almost forget that that happened.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 4: So then she did show up.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: No, no, no.
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: The night before, I'm in Nashville, like talking to my
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: lawyer because this was going to be in L.A. where
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: she sued me. But I had moved since then. And
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I got my refundable Southwest Airlines ticket. Like
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: I can refund it up until 20 minutes before the trip.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 2: Because I knew that she was going to pull some
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 2: last minute thing, which she did. And she did the
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: same thing to Mike in her restraining order hearing where
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: she didn't show up.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 4: So then from there, then it just.
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: It was over. It was an agreed upon.
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 4: And you never had to fly there and wait.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: That was over. But I still had the threats of
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 2: her suing me for defamation. And of course, if she did,
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: she would lose. But I also had to show her,
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: you're not the one with the money.
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 6: I am.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: I'm the one with the attention that can sink you
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: in the court system. So I think she's realized, you
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: just can't fuck with me. I've been by the books.
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: I haven't done anything that constitutes any level of defamation.
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 2: but they still make those threats. And that's why like,
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 2: I've just had to be, you know, I'm, I'm, I've just,
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 2: I've had to make it so that I'm on, if
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: you Google my name, I I'm on enough places where
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 2: I've shared the truth. And it's so, it's so obvious
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: in hindsight now, once people have listened to the stuff,
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: but at the time it was like a lot of,
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 2: I don't know who to believe. It was like, people
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: had to really look into it. And that's the problem
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: with these restraining orders is no, like when Mike's trying
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: to get a job, HR is not telling him we
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: didn't hire you because there's a restraining order. You just
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 2: don't get that call back. Clayton got dropped from speaking
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 2: engagements where he was speaking on mental health issues and
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: you just don't know why. Like, so that's, that's the
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 2: real problem is that you don't even know how you've
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: been fucked with for years. And Mike was working in
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: tech and he's got two kids and he's probably lost
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: out on millions because of it. I mean, I don't
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: even know if they have the surveillance footage of this,
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: but he works in San Francisco and And she went
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: into his corporate office in New York City, allegedly, to
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: get him fired. Like, she's a savage. And we know
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: that now. And it's like, okay, now that we know
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 2: we're dealing with a savage, it's just like wizard behind
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: the curtain. Like, all right, that's how you pull all
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: the strings?
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 4: You just use Photoshop?
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 3: One thing I thought was really interesting is towards the
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 3: end of the podcast and trying to figure out more of, like,
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 3: what really makes this woman tick, there was one friend
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 3: from her youth who kind of said she and the
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 3: mom were best friends. They did everything together. Definitely an enabler.
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 3: She didn't even learn to drive till she was 18,
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 3: which now some kids do. But back then it was
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 3: a little unusual, especially if you had the money to
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 3: do it. And then also that she was into being
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 3: famous and wanted to be famous. So that's why I'm
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 3: kind of like... She tried to release a country album.
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 3: She's tried different.
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 5: Things, yeah.
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 3: Podcasting and all this stuff. And going for someone who's famous,
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 3: who's Clayton. So I'm kind of like, do you think
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 3: that she actually is getting joy from all of this?
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 3: Even though she's acting like she's not and she's being
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 3: so tortured and she wants it to stop and she
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 3: didn't participate in the documentary, which I can see why.
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 4: But actually would be sad when it all ends.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: That's why I think she's not going to take the
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 2: plea because she'll be the ultimate victim. I went to
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 2: jail because of the injustice of getting pregnant by the bachelor.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: Like if she takes that to the grave. Cause she
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 2: still says she was actually pregnant.
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 2: It's crazy. And, um, and I've told her.
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 4: Unfortunately miscarried. Yeah.
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 2: And, and, and we, and of course we had this
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 2: deadline where the 20 at 20 weeks, it's not a miscarriage.
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: It's a, it's a, um, a still-born baby and you
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 2: need a death certificate. And so, like, she changed the
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: dates on when it happened from when she would have been, like,
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: way past the deadline with some of these photos, which
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: we know she faked, to, like, in hindsight, claiming it
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 2: was months earlier. So it's like, which one was it?
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 3: And that she passed at home, like, she wasn't at
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 3: a hospital. Yeah, she sent, and she sent, like, photos.
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 3: And she never went to a hospital after? Never, no.
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: She did the thing where she, like, consulted with a
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: telehealth doctor. It was always like.
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 4: Over a miscarriage. My God. And also someone.
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 3: Oh, and I also thought at the end when she
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 3: was trying to get out of all these court appearances,
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 3: it was that she has ADHD, anorexia, autism.
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 4: medical issues, this, this, this, and this.
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: And a lot of people have said, most people with autism, again,
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 2: I don't know if everyone's different, but they can't lie.
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 2: They have to tell the truth. And so some people
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 2: were like, yeah, my son's got autism. He would never
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 2: lie about one thing ever. It's like jarring how truthful
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: he is. She's lying to her ass. Whatever she is,
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: Munchausen by proxy is interesting. Her mom's seriously evil. I
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: actually think her mom's More dangerous and evil than she is,
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: because in the end, her mom's not going to have
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: a felony over her head. And I've seen her mom lie.
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 2: Her mom even tried to when the when the investigators
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 2: went to talk to the mom, she was like, is
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: this thing on the record? And she tried to get
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 2: it off the record. They're like, of course, it's on
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 2: the record. Everything's being recorded. And at that point, she
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 2: shared a story. And I was like, I wonder what
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 2: she was going to say if she thought it was
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: off the record. Because she was operating like a reporter, right?
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 2: I said she wanted a Pulitzer, a Peabody, whatever it was.
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: She probably thought she could get away with steering the
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: detectives away from the direction they were going. But then
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 2: when she realized it was on the record, she's like, yeah,
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: you know, and she changed her tune.
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 3: So before we wrap up, where.
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 4: What is she awaiting right now?
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: She's awaiting a criminal trial for 14 felony charges.
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 4: In Scottsdale.
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 2: In Scottsdale or whatever the Phoenix. Maricopa. Yeah, wherever. Yeah,
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2: Maricopa County. Oh, Maricopa. And I think it would be
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 2: like a week-long trial.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 4: And when is it set for?
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 2: I think it's in early July. It'll be hot.
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 3: And then come July, she can fake, she can say
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 3: she's sick again and not appear again?
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 2: I guess she could, I guess she could claim illness
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: and then delay it. Um, but she could also, I mean, yeah,
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 4: I mean, like how many times can you delay illness?
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 4: And that's why.
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: We're, that's why we think she's going to sue for
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: emotional distress because she's lost a ton of weight. And
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 2: I do feel bad for her. Like she for sure
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: has an eating disorder. She's probably in the eighties pounds
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 2: from like probably 130 or 125. And so like, but I,
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 2: we say that because with Greg Gillespie, she tried to
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 2: sue him for emotional distress. And the judge said, like,
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 2: you can't prove why you have hives.
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 2: So now she's like, I know how to prove I'm sick.
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 2: These guys did this to me. Now, it won't go anywhere.
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: But I think that's where her brain's at is like,
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: if I can't be a victim there, I'll literally destroy
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 2: my own body to show how much they've hurt me.
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 2: Or she's just already had that disorder. But either way,
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 2: she's like really sick and her family's not stopping her
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: doing anything to help her. And that's why I think
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: one of the safest things is to somehow get her help,
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 2: like through a system that's going to actually monitor her
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 2: because she's living in squalor. If she was a child,
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 2: if she wasn't over 18 and you saw the conditions
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: she was living in when they raided her home, you
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: would want to call CPS. Like she's not well and
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 2: we want the best for her, but we're also not
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: going to let. all these other families get railroaded by
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 2: her lies.
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 3: No, I mean, there needs to be justice. It's like,
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 3: you can't be like, well, sorry, now leave me alone. Like, no,
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 3: there needs to be some justice and you need to
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 3: pay for what you did to people.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: And I've always said, like, the best thing she could
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 2: do is admit to her lies and have one of
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: those podcasts where she explains why she committed all these crimes.
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 4: I would love that.
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: Go on Juicy Scoop.
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 3: No, I would love that, but I feel like when I'm...
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 3: when I've always questioned people like that, they actually don't,
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 3: whether they cheated. And I'm like, do a podcast about
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 3: cheating women and explain why you chose to cheat or
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 3: whatever it is. Like, it's interesting that they, there is,
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 3: it's very rare that someone, sometimes someone, once they've come
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 3: out of prison, if they were like a gambler or
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 3: they ran a Ponzi scheme, once in a while, they'll
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 3: come and like tell how it happened and how it,
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 3: you know, tumbled in that way. But I've never seen
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 3: it when it's someone lying about cancer or something like this.
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: It might just be something she takes to the grave.
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 2: And maybe she'd benefit from the prison system by having
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 2: some structure. Making friends.
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 4: She'd probably make a bunch of friends.
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 2: I think the best thing she should do, like I've
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 2: said this before, is just get a job at an Aldi's.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 2: Just go get a job that doesn't involve your famous dad.
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 2: And go live in a world where you can work
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 2: on a farm stand. Just go try to be normal again.
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: What Clayton is advocating for is that they somehow mandate
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 2: her getting off social media. Because it's like, you could
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: argue that social media and that whole side of the
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 2: internet has made whatever condition she has exponentially worse. And
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 2: it's like, you're a danger to society. If you're a felon,
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 2: you can't own a gun. Or if you have mental
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: health issues, you can't own a weapon. If you have
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 2: issues where you scam people, maybe you shouldn't be able
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 2: to have a smartphone.
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 3: And just knowing all the loopholes and everything that she did. Dave,
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 3: thank you so much. I think this is like amazing.
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 2: Always a pleasure.
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 3: That you are doing so. Tell everybody where they can
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 3: follow you and watch your show.
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 2: Just search Dave Neal on YouTube. I do a twice
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: daily podcast called The Rush Hour with Dave Neal. We
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 2: cover pop culture, politics, and just kind of, I'll give
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 2: updates on this case if it goes to trial. If
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: I'm allowed to talk, if I am a witness, I
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 2: might be throttled back a little bit. But until I
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: take the stand, I can talk. And that'll be July
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 2: as of now.
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I will be buying a returnable, a refundable ticket
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 2: because who knows? I was going to cover the Baldoni
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 2: case in New York. That's settled. So I'm like, I've
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: got all these plans this year and they're all getting fucked.
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 2: So again, I don't want to be in Scottsdale in July,
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: but we'll see. Yeah.
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 4: All right. Well, awesome. Thank you, everybody. And go to HeatherMcDonald.net
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 4: for me to join my Patreon. Thank you.
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 3: Bye.
• 1:26:21
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