Latest / WoT Spoilers / A Place to Begin & In the White Tower - The Gathering Storm chapters 15 & 16 - EP522

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A Place to Begin & In the White Tower - The Gathering Storm chapters 15 & 16 - EP522 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the Weedle of Time Spoilers Podcast.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I am glad to be here because out there sucks.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: No kidding, Hey, everybody, welcome back. We have well, we
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: have a couple of things to talk about before the chapters,
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: but we tentatively plan to go through three chapters today.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: It's going to be a lot of pages, about fifty.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: The first chapter is a rand chapter, a lot of meat,
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: a lot of good stuff in there. I think we'll
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: talk about it for like an hour, you know, we'll
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: have a lot of good context that we usually do
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: on these chapters. Not the longest. The second chapter is
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: incredibly long, but it's a GWayne in the tower and
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: it m m is other than the speech at the
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: end to Alida, I find the rest of the chapter
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: to be hard to talk about.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: I think it's a lot like an action scene. There's
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: a lot of good stuff, but it's so exactly what
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: it says.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: It is exactly. Yes, there's a lot to talk about.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: It's like this excellent speech.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's a Gwine at peak, a GWayne just
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: a graining so hard all over everything. It's gonna be fun.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: It's gonna be fun. And so there's like a lot
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: of stuff in there that I'm like, this, this happens,
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: this is cool, this is what we've been talking about,
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: this is what we've been building up to. And then
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: the third chapter is nothing burger, a vianda chapter that's
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: exactly like the previous abviend the chapter.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's the wet, diminishing returns as we go
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: through the three chapters today, So.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: We'll probably spend most of our time on the first
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: chapter and then blow through the next two relatively quickly.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: So we scheduled the three chapter episode today, which is
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: rare for us, but we're going to make it, make
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: it happen truly.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: That last chapter is this is nothing.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: No, no, there's.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: One incredibly notorious scene that we have nothing to say
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: other than that it's a notorious scene, right, like it's
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: it's no no anyway, Oh my god. Though, I saw
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: an amazing picture this morning yesterday. It was Robert Jordan's
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: nephew sitting in RJ's chair, like the big curved dragon
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: throwne chair, like in the same pose as his uncle,
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: like at roughly the same age. Like he's now old
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: enough that like he can be taken at roughly the
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: same age as RJ, and just RJ looks like a
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: dapper southern gentleman from another era. He looks amazing. And
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: then his nephew looks, you know, very much like him,
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: has the same like long tall plas and it's just like, wow,
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: the Randolph thor is so strong, it's so strong. It's
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: just like that is that is Rand right there? Like
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: I know, I know there's a million fan arts, there's Yosha,
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: but like there's something about this nephew where I'm just like,
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: now that one has Rand's that's the one carrying the torch.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: Beautiful picture. I'll see if I can find it and
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: put it to our social media. Really cool comparison.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's obvious to me that Jordan was doing
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: a somewhat self insert in ran right, especially the more
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: you find out about his experiences in Vietnam and how
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: you know those apply to rand in the way he's
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: experiencing trauma and war and that sort of thing.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: I had the thought the other day that we know
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: Robert Jordan was neurodivergent because you can acquire neurodivergence through
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: trauma that is encompassed within the definition of nero. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: that people who coined the term very explicitly included trauma
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: induced brain changes as part of neurodivergence. So he was,
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: in fact, by definition, one of us in the broadest
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: neurodivergent sense.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: Come on, the man read a book a day, of course.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: Like well, and then there's that, and then there's that.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: Then there's his pipe collection and his grembling cottage full
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: of artifacts, and.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: His obsession with a certain subject that he well, I mean,
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: he was making money off of it, so he can't really.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: His obsession was like a zillion different subjects that he
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: would hyper focus on and then write one chapter about
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: and then move on to the next one. Just serial
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: hyper focus tunnels. I actually really want to go do
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: a podcast appearance on an autistic culture podcast with the
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: pitch wheel of time is autistic or Robert Jordan was
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: autistic or something like.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: That, Like that be the pitch for There's nothing in
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: these books to suggest he had an hyper sense of
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: right and wrong.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, none of that.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: All right, I'm going to read it.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: All right, do it?
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Because we need a place to begin on these chapters.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: Oh look, a place to.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: Begin starting with chapter fifteen.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: The place to begin the header is a dragon, because again,
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: we are incredibly literal in these chapters. Rand woke on
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: the floor of hallway. He sat up, listening to the
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: distant sound of water the stream outside the manor house. No, no,
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: that was wrong. The walls in the floor here were
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: stone utwood. No candles or lamps hung from the stone work,
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: and yet there was light ambient in the air. He stood,
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: then straightened his red coat, feeling strangely unafraid. He recognized
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: this place from somewhere distant in his memory. How had
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: he come here? The recent past was clouded and seemed
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: to slip from him like fading trails of mist. No,
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: he thought firmly. His memories obeyed, snapping back into place
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: before the strength of his determination. He had been in
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: the Demani manor House awaiting a report from Roc about
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: the capture of the first few members of the Merchant Council.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: Men had been reading each castle a biography, and the
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: deep green chair of the room they shared. Rand had
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: been exhausted, as he often was lately. He'd gone to
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: lie down. He was asleep. Then, was this the world
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: of dreams? Though he had visited on occasion, he knew
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: very few specifics Agwayne and the Ieal dream walk or
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: spoke of it only guardedly. This place felt different from
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: the dream world and oddly familiar. So he's he's in
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: a dream shard.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that is that what this is? This is a
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: Mordan dream like yeah, bubble joined into the way that
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: Dagwayne joined with Gowan or whatever rights.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: It's just we hear it described. Basically, it's a place
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: where Morden has more control than he would over the
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: general dream world world of dreams because it has no
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: sort of analog in the real world. He can shape
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: it to be what he wants. And that's something I
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: think we hear Grendall think about that when she goes
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: and visits him, and so when he talks about this
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: feels like the world of dreams, but is different. I've
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: been here before, but not in a long time. It's
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: not the world of dreams because he has been in
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: the world of dreams more recently. This is Mordan specific
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: dream shard and we see this it's been charred and burned, right,
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: and that's from their fight in Eye of the World.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: Why how did the fight affect just because it's part
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: of his like men landscape?
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Something was different this time, something about the colors.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: Many of the stones were black, as if they'd been burned,
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: and crackslaced them. Distant red light glowed from within. There
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: once been a table here, hadn't There are his boots
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: clicking on stones that burned, So I don't know. I
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: feel like this place is on fire and away in
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: the same way that remember, how like I don't know.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: Morden had half his face burned away, and that kind
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: of affected the world of dreams, right, even if the
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: battle didn't take place here. There's something about this that
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: is the core of a Shamael that was burned, either
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: when Rand thrust his sword through them or when he
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: actually killed him.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: Gotcha. I wonder if that's why he's taken the color
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: scheme of black and red in his real world appearances.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: I wonder if that's why he's decided that's his color
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: scheme at this point in time, because it wasn't Shameel's
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: color scheme. It's Mordon's color steam.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: Right, But it was Rand's color scheme before it was
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: Mordan's color scheme, And once they crossed streams, all of
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: a sudden, Morden started picking it up.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: I feel like Rand was more of a red and
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: black guy and Burden's more of a black and red guy.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: Not a difference between blue green and green blue anyway.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: Which one is more predominant mix? I think. I mean,
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: that's the best I got, because it's just because I
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: thought that he had made the dream shared black and
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: red because he's into the black and red thing. But
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: now I'm wondering maybe he's into the black and red
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: thing because everything's burned and crispy on his psyche.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: That is that like the burned flesh with just red
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: like that. That was when he was striped like that.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: That was the whole thing in the Great Hunt is.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: Then they went to the dream world, which was striped
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: like his face. And when you flew up and you
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: could see from a high you were on his face. Right,
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: that was that crazy parallel world, sorry Pearlstone world.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, yeah, And.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: Then we get this like Rand had been exhausted, as
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: he often was lately. Right, There's just I think there's
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: a lot of overlap between Mordon and Rand, and there
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: one's exhaustion is affecting the other.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. Mordon comments on it here. Yeah, it's
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: it seems like they are definitely tired enough for two
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: men at any given time.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: Well, and I think Morgan is that's his exhaustion of existence, right,
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: that's he's so tired of being alive. He just wants
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: it to end. And I think that exhaustion is what
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: rand is feeling.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: Right, You can't sleep that off?
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: No, uh, we see, let's see there's there's the clouds
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: of an impending storm. They almost look like a lava
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: lamp tomy. The clouds grew and spread the other like bubbles.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: And biling water. Yeah, definitely, I'm like, why is that frightening?
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: That just sounds like a really good.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: Love you know. And there's just a lot of continuation
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: of some of the Eye of the World themes. It
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: really feels like Sanderson went back and read Eye of
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: the World and kind of reprose some of that stuff.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: Here the rats being burned alive, and then they have
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: hands like people because they're not rats, they're actually people's
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: souls that he's they're dark friends who have betrayed him,
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: that he's torturing in the world of Dreams at Night, right.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's it definitely gives you strong like Sanderson
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: wanted to really capture what he could of the eye
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: of the world, spookiness, like the unreality that is. The
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: first few times as Shamayel appears, Sanderson was like, I
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: want my first few appearances of Mordon to have the
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: same vocally unsettling, unearthly quality.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: So we get a description of Morden as they meet,
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: Tall and youthful. He had a square face and ancient
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: blue eyes that reflected the hearth fire, turning his irises
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: almost purple. So more of just like, that's what Rand's
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: gonna look like in the future, which I always think
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: is fun.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: It's gonna have purple eyes, just like a Lana in Torta.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: How dare you?
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: And then we had allow these references to him in visions. Right,
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of crunchy world building stuff going on
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: in this next chunk, right, Yeah, he's seen the man
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: in visions, not unlike the ones that appeared when he
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: thought about apparent But they're not the same, right, it's
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: not tevere and connecting this This is the bail fire
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: streams crossing. Ranton almost felt as if he could reach
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: out and touch this man, afraid of what would happen
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: if he did, right, that reach out and touching thing
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: is what ends up causing the body swap. Right, This
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: is foreshadowing body swap right here. Yeah, for sure, what
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: would happen if you reach out and touch him, you
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: have body swap. That's what happens, right. They're very well connected.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: He's like, he only met the man once a shot
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: our logoth, right, referencing that moment when they cross streams.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: That was really important, even though he doesn't specifically talk
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: about it. He's like, remember they met it shot our logoth.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: This is the Wanderer. Just in case you were wondering, right,
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: because I mean that was a big speculation, the Wanderer,
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: the Watcher, and I forget what the third one was,
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: but it was like they all ended up being Morgan, right,
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: and we try to figure out who these people were,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: and it was it was a back in book seven
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: he was referred to as the Wanderer, and like, yeah,
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: now we know who he is, and now Rand knows
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: who he is. Interesting also, crunchy bit Rand's not able
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: to see matter paren when he thinks about them.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he doesn't hear Loose then either. He's a low
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: in his own skull for once.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: So I think those are two very unrelated things sort.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: Of okay, right, okay, tell me more.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: The first one him not seeing matter parent is because
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: I think he's in Shawmael's dream chart. This is a
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: bubble off of reality, and so he's not seeing the swirls.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: It's either because he's in Teller Roundriod and the swirls
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: are related to tell A round Redd, so you can't
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: see them if you're in, right, the world of dreams, right,
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: because they are of the world of dreams. Or it's
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: the fact that he's outside of reality a little bit
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: in the dream chart because he's not in the world
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: of dreams, he's kind of outside of the pattern in
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: this attached bubble to the pattern.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: Hmmm hmm.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: You're not liking that one.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: I don't like the idea of things existing outside of
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: the pattern. I find that to be sort of paradoxical.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: Not necessarily outside the pattern. But yeah, yeah, that's fair.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: But I totally could buy that you can't have tell
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: I Run riodd effects out inside Teller Run Reod. I
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: kind of like how the dream spike has certain rules. Yeah,
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: but where it can and can't exist. I could totally
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: believe that the tevere in visions, men visions. Things of
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: that nature would be just completely inapplicable in til I
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: run Riod and other tell I run Riod and Jason spaces,
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: because this is more till I run Riod than anything else. Yes,
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: dream stars are technically different, but it's closer to that
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: than any other mechanism.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: But they can sort of pinch off and like separate
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: right in a way that they're completely unconnected from the pattern.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: Right, it's built on that template, but it is not
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: of the same literal matrix.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: And then the other issue that we talked about is
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: the fact that he's not hearing Lewis Theren And this
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: one stumped me for a while because I'm like, he's
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: been in tell I run Riod and that like he's
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: obviously been able to hear Lewis thereon before and tell
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: I Running Odd. So I don't believe it has anything
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: to do with the dream shard or being in the
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: world of dreams. Okay, I think it's because he's not
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: in his own body. He came to Morden, he's in
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: Morgan's dreams, he's in Mordon's head. He's not in his
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: own head. What's in his head? The taint that makes
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: him insane. I think in Morridon's body, he's not insane anymore.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: The pieces of him fit together better. He has the
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: memories of Lewis then without the voice of Lewis Theron,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: because remember, the memories are real, the voice is fake.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: The voice is a production of the madness. So if
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: the voice is gone, it's because the taint is in
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: Rand's head. He's not in his own head. He's in
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: Moridon's head and there's no taint there, and so he
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: just has the memories without the insanity.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: I mean that definitely fits with all the evidence we've got.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: That's some highly technical hand wavy magic. But like, no,
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: that totally makes sense. But like Mordon's still using his body.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: Does that mean Morden is starting to hear like the
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: whispers of a madman in his head?
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: I mean something's going on there. They're all sort of
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: sharing a brain. I would not be supp Morgan's like,
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: why am I hearing Lewis there and in my head?
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: I don't have any evidence for that, but I wouldn't
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: be surprised or I wouldn't. That's something that could be
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: I think written.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: In Also, Like, I mean he's got so many intrusive
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: thoughts in his head, would he even be able to
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: notice loose there and adding himself to the to the chorus, like, but.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the taint, as Tabernas is saying, the taints of
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: physical man station right, So like.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: You get a new body, you get right the way
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: we see.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: How pry it off, right, They literally literally pries it
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: off their brain like a physical thing. Right, So if
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: you get a new body, you're going to restart, right.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: Because Mordan's body has been protected from the taint by
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: the connection with the dark one.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: It's a shamele soul that isn't happening that body. That
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: that is a tricky way to get out of your
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: mental illness. My dude, I'll just steal another man's brain.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: YEP, I honestly think that's what he's doing. He's thinking
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: with another man's brain that's not tainted.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: That m that is. That is some tricksy hobbits is
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: is what that is.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: And I don't think that things attached to the soul, right, Like,
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: I just I just don't. I don't think no the
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: way and I ne.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: Even described it as very like meta, it's very physical,
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: it's very attached to the body.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: And I also don't don't don't feel like the insanity
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: you know is reborn with you. If you die and
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: are reborn, you're not reborn insane as a tainted male.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that doesn't seem fair. That doesn't seem fair at.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: All, Which was our first clue that LTT in Rand's
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: head is not real because yeah, because well that and
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: the fact that, like he was cleansed of insanity before
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: he died, right, So the idea that he's insane in
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Rand's head couldn't be real because LTT was cleansed of
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: the taint and then died. So if the LTT in
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: RAN's head was real, it was like a was the
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: soul come back? It wouldn't be insane.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: Right because I remember you. I remember this evidence from you,
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: because you're like real loose there and was cleansed of
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: the taint. But nobody knows that. And Rand's vision of
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: LTT is insane because it's a vision of LTT based
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: on legends, not an actual manifestation of ail t T
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: who we know is Cliss. I remember this argument, God,
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: remember being at the library listening to you making the document.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: I gotta I gotta go into discord when I get
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: home from school and like go make a comment like.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: So that's that's that was. Like there's a lot of
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: crunchiness in these couple of paragraphs, right, like a lot
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: of crime coller and red crossing streams, uh, insanity, stuff,
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: taint stuff like it's it's thick. There's a lot to
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: talk about here.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: Right, And then and then if if you're done with
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: that particular paragraph, then we get to also reiterate with
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: shame morig and like stop whining that dreams aren't really
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: like stop it, Like haven't you learned by now that
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: dreams are just as real as reality, if not more so?
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: It's like why do you always say it's just a
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: dream and like it doesn't matter. Yeah it is?
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: And Igwayne will show us how important that is when
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: she crushes Masana's mind in a dream, right.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: Or I mean just the fact that you can kill
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: somebody in a dream and they die in real life, right,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: Like that alone makes it real.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: Mmmmm, absolutely absolutely.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: And then there's that fun one I killed you, Yeah,
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: well I watched you kill yourself, so we both were
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: both dead men who were coming back, which I think
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: is that's a fun little parallel.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, He's like, yes, I've seen you die too.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: Like big whoop, resurrected in very different manners, right, well,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: more than resurrected by the Dark One keeps his mind.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: Rand resurrected by the Pattern didn't. But then the Dark
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: One gave him his mind back through the Taint, which
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: he makes that point in this chapter.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: Mm hmmmm hmm. It's almost like the Dark One wanted
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: to lose the whole time.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: It's almost like evil defeats itself every every time it's
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: in fantasy at.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: Least, which is definitely a predictor for the real world
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: New ten.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: Now, now it's very important to me the know that's.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: Not true, right, I know it's not true, but it
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: sounded so nice it made me feel good and safe.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: But no, I know we have to fight evil and
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: it's a forevery fight. And that's why the Vans of
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: Gold is gonna slap so hard when we get there.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: And so this Rand has the realization that I had
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: in book seven that you're really gonna be hard to
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: finish this series if the Forsaken keep coming back to
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: life and you kill one every book like, it's really
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: gonna be hard to finish the series if that's the
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: pattern you're going for. And I think he has realized, like, oh,
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: that's not what I'm doing anymore, Like I don't need
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: to fight the foresaken.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: I need to fight the Dark One right right, because
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: the Dark One can just keep resurrecting the four second
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: it's like yeah, And also again it's Brandon Sanderson looking
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: at us the audience and saying, yeah, I understand, I
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: got to actually start pulling these numbers down for real.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: Interesting that Morden gives over the bailfire clue.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: I mean he wants it to end. He doesn't want
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: to win, he wants it to end.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. People always ask why doesn't Morgan bailfire himself or
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: get bail fired, Like why is that not his way
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: to end it? And it's like that doesn't end your soul.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: We've talked about this before, but I want to reiterate,
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: like you still get reborn into the pattern. It just
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: means the Dark One can't reborn you reborn, you resurrect
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: you reborn you Jesus.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: Speak is happening.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: Apparently where we are rebaptizing people in the Dark One's
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: image long ago. I promised you that great Lord could
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: restore your lost love? Do you think he can easily?
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: Do you not think he can easily recover one who
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: serves him? So this is evidence. Remember we went through
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: a big debate when Rand said I can bring your
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: mother back and she's like, Rand, please help me. He
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: tortures me, Like that is a horrific scene.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure seems like it might have been happening,
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: like it might have been real.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So it really does seem that, at least Brandon
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: is writing this as though the Dark One could have
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: does have access to Rand's mother, and Morgan's like, yeah,
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: no shit. Or he could just be reiterating his own lie, right,
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: he could be reinforcing that lie, But at this point
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: doesn't seem like a disappoint to that.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's always the greatest irony when the father
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: of lies can use truth to hurt you and confuse
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: you about what to do, right, Like, that's the best
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: irony is when the people notorious for lying don't even
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: have to lie to fuck with you.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: Well, and the best lies are mostly truth, right right?
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: But I don't like the idea that just any soul
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: can be swooped up by literal satan. I don't like
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: that cosmology. I feel like, if you're feel like you, yeah,
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: you should at least have opened the door a little bit,
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: like you can't just be a general person, just vibe
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: and doing your.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: Thing, which of course opens to the door to the
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: carry author was a dark friend, well, because that's the
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: only way the dark one can get a hold of
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: her soul.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: Or he was lying about having his mother, or he's
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: lying about it, like, I mean, those are the two,
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: because he could easily steal Kari's image, because that's I mean,
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: master revolutions right, like he could make a smaculum of
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: his of Akari. Whatever that word is, y'all know what
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: I meant.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: The word we both learned from reading and have never
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: heard out loud because it's not used in common language.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: But I knew exactly what. Yeah, I know exactly what
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: you're talking about. Remember, if you can't pronounce a word
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: but you know how it's used, it means you learned
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: it from reading. Congratulations, Yeah, Similacrum.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: That's how I read it, Similacrum.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: We get, We get to see the saw in Morgan's eyes.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: Small black flex floated about in the lights crossing back
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: and forth, like bits of ash blown on the leisurely wind.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: So the early saw that turned into the you know
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: yin yang and Rand's eye later and again we speculated,
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: and I'm pretty sure this is the case that the saw,
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: or the early version of the flames in Beelsman's eyes
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: and mouth.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the saw burn you from
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: the inside out. But it starts out it's just an innocent,
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: little optical illusion.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: It's just like the little little bits of taint get
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: into you and float around and then slowly it's almost
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: like radiation, right, That's what I was.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: Just thinking, Like if your eyes started to glow and
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: then you just got more and more glowy until you
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: were completely on fire, Like it's very much like radiation.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: So yeah, then Mordon pulls out his you know, after
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: telling Rand to be real about dreams, he's then very
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: unrealistic about hope. He's like, well, eventually you're not going
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: to have any hope, so you might as well just
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: give up on having hope now and just roll over
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: and lose and like vans of gold, the entire revelation,
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: and not even vans of gold, but the actual revelation
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: that Rand has during the last battle is like, but
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: as long as we hope we win, Saying that there's
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: no hope means that you lost, right, that these are
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: paradoxical things you're trying to convince me of, Sir.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: You're trying to convince me that there's no hope, because
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: by convincing me there's no hope, you win, and then
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: there's no hope.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: Right, But as long as I choose to keep hoping,
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: then I'm winning.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: Yes, So why wouldn't I keep hoping to win? Yeah?
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: Exactly right?
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're a dumbass. Alon.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: Well, and it's also like the turning of the wheel, Like, yes,
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: the wheel turns over and over and over again, but
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: the Dark Ones, outside of time, he only gets to
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: touch the world once and for you know, even though
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: the wheel is spinning and passing by the last battle
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: with every turning, it's the same point for the Dark One,
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: it's the same touch.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: Right, for the Dark One, it's not a spiral.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: It's not a spiral.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: For everyone else it's a spiral, but for the Dark
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: One it's really not.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so he because he's lost once means he
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: will always lose, right, because.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: The one thing you cannot take away from humans is
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: their capacity to hope like an individual, yes, which is
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: why breaking Rand is a person is so important. But
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: like as a species, one of us is gonna be
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: hopeful about something. We're obnoxious like that.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: And this is why I say the Dark One can
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: never win. He will always lose. Now, Rand, at some
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: point in some turning of the wheel can destroy the wheel.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: We can destroy the wheel as people, but the Dark
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: One can never win. We can just lose, right right.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: The Dark One's entire job is convincing us to lose. Yeah,
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: convincing us to lose. It's a convincing That's why all
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's why Kadspan's heart is in the right place,
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: even as all of her methods are wildly askew. Like
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: she understands that the Dark One's mission is to break
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: Rand's spirit, not to break his armies.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so the Dark One, he says, basically want to
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: kill the Dark One, and Morgan laughs at him, right,
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: because he's like, you still don't understand what the Dark
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: One is, and we see that in the last battle.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: I doubt you can understand the magnitude of the stupidity
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: of your statement.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: It's such a goodding and such a good diss. I
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: love that line, and it makes sense, like killing the
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: dark one kills the freedom of choice. People have to
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: choose good or bad or somewhere in between, and that
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: takes away free will. Right.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: It's a weird way of Robert Jordan almost getting that
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: the binary isn't actually the way, right, Like Rand actually
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: genuinely thinks he can create a true binary, like Robert
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: Tran's like, no, no, no, we actually need like mostly
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: a binary with a sprinkle of chaos. He doesn't quite
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: get it when it comes to regular people, but he
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: does get it when it comes to metaphysics that, like,
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: true binary is not how nature works, and if you
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: try to force that, you're going to you're gonna lose something.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: And so we need balance.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it turns out balance is not binary. Balance is
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: more complicated than that.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: Right, right, Yeah, it's And that's where we talk about
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: gradients and spectrums spectrums for example, Yes, and that you
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: can have a balance between two ends of a spectrum,
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: and that doesn't mean putting weight at both ends of
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: the spectrum and only at both ends of the spectrum.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: You have weight all along the spectrum and the beam
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: can balance. Then you have a balance beam which brings
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: us two gymnastics for some reason.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: Right, it's good to stay flexible times.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: Nice.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: I admire stand up comedians so much.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: Oh gosh, the yes and is so good. It's so good.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: So yeah, Rand leaves the dream by grabbing the power.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: There's Morden complains about Sammarog a little bit, and we
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: don't see his hand, so there's a question of like
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: does he have the hand.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: He does He flexes the hand in between a couple
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: of times. Yeah, yeah, he has a hand.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: He has a hand, but somehow that affected him, right.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: Like he's got a phantom missing hand, Yeah, just like
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: Grant has a phantom present hand, right, Like that's right.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Rand does describe being able to feel the hand
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: still there, and like that's very common in paraplegics. But
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: that might be because he's feeling Mordan's hand.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's it's both. It's that's normal
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: for when you lose a part of your body, like
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: to have phantom pains, but like Morridan's also feeling phantom
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: pains and Rants feeling Mordens. So like there's layers.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: Here's my thought. Mordan's not in pain. His hand is
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: completely numb because there's he's it essentially has no.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: Hand, right, So that means that RAN's phantom limb is
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: actually moving, yes, like when he checks out on it periodically,
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: it's in different positions because Mordon is using it. Yeah, oh,
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: but he's going around with a hand. It just feels
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: all tingly and not weird. Oh that sounds so uncomfortable.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: I mean it is Mordon, so I don't care, but like,
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: oh that sounds so weird.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's my theory is that they're feeling each
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: other's hands, and obviously, since there's no hand there for
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: Mordon to feel ill, he's feeling phantom limb syndrome essentially
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: even though he can move it. It's weird. Yeah, it's
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: like ultimate pins and needles right, like mmmmmm.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: And he's mad at Sammarag about that, which like fair, yeah, and.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: Then he follows out with I do not know what
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: would happen to us if we killed each other, which
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: is like yeah, if you're like, what happens if you
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: kill the body that you are more connected to? Like yeah,
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: it's it's a very weird, like would they both die?
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: If one of them died, I mean, I feel like
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: I almost feel like it would like unravel a knot
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: of bail fire actions. It would like compound and like
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: their actions would be like undone going back like tenfold
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: in time because they like killed each other, and it
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: would just I don't think it'd be good for the pattern. No,
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: I think the pattern would have like a blazing hole
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: ripped in it.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: God, what if they not only killed each other, but
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: bailfile fired each other, or one of them bailfired the
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: other one.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, and then the dark One's like, wow, that
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: escalated passwords. I wanted it too. It's just the dark
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: one and Faine just hanging out in the void after
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: like so you want to create a universe or something
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: like No.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: And it's like it makes sense that once they've switched bodies,
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: they separate out and one can die without the other
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: one because now like Rand is in the body he's
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: connected to and Morten they're mid swap. Yeah, they're halfway through,
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: so they're still really connected.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're a chemical reaction. Halfway through the reaction time.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: Right, how did Rand come to be? That's through the bond? Right?
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: This is Mordan in his own dream chard and Rand
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: thinks he's dreaming, but because he's in Mordan's body, he
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: just shows up in that dream and it sort of
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: passes all of his barriers because it's going through his
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: own head. It's he's not going through the barriers to
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: get out of his head. And then we have men yeah,
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: because Rand basically stops dreaming, you know, he goes he
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: goes into sleep. Rand falls asleep for real instead of
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: being in the world of dreams, and spends like.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: A whole five minutes having actual sleep, while Min is like,
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: oh good, he's finally gonna like settle down and resting it.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: And she's moved on to a couple more books. I
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: was kind of tracking the titles of the books. She
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: reads like five different books in the course of this
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: like not cover to cover obviously, but she's working on
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: she's referencing different copy several different titles in the course
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: of this chapter.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: She's not reading these books. She's doing she's writing a
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: reference paper, right, She's writing a thesis, and her thesis
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: is you have to break the seals. And she's referencing
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: all the different books and opening different pages and cross
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: referencing and like She's got little tabs in each book,
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: is how I'm thinking that she so she can flip
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: certain pages and underline certain quotes and all that kind
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: of stuff. Like she is essentially putting together her master thesis,
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: which is you have to break the seals.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: Rand and I would submit that this is why she
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: is hashtag not a fucking lamp, because a lamp is
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: not teaching herself six hundred level fucking philosophy and recreating
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: an entire scholars decades long series of thoughts and works
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: and tracing out everything he may have thought to recreate.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: What's the most likely solution to Rand's question?
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: I think because so much of it's, so much of
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: it is internal to her that like, for externally, it
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: doesn't look like she's doing a lot. She's sitting there reading,
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: which I know is just so highly offensive to those
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: of us who like to sit there and read and
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: are told we're not doing anything. Yes, so yeah, no,
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: it's it's frustrating because reading is doing something. I saw
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: a funny thing that was like what happens if we
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: treated people who uh other forms of entertainment as books?
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: And it's like, oh, are you gonna watch that? Fantasy
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: series all eighty episodes. You're just gonna sit there and
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: binge that TV and not do anything useful, like you know,
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, that's that's what reading is, is it?
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: I'm haascinating fun stories. Sorry that you need a TV
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: to do that. I can do it with words on
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: a page. I know. Yeah.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: But it's like she's, yeah, tabs everywhere, not sleeping very
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: much like working through multiple hypotheses of like a serious
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: academic scholar, volumes everywhere, and she's keeping track of Rand's
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: sleep and telling him to go back to bed.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: And like, you know, she's reading Plato. I'm sorry, pale Teo.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, she's just literally just casually reading Plato to
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: like come up with her thesis for why Rand should
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: you know, build a nuclear bomb?
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: And you remember Plato wrote a book called Musings, and
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: this is a book called Ponderings by Polato's it's not
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: exactly mother Teresa levels of that was actually referencing our time.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: But like, I don't know, this is weird though, because.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's not better Plato was kind of a dumb ass.
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: Do you think this is actually the book Plato's words? Again?
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: Do you think this is actually the book Plato's musings
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: carried forward, or do you think that's just like a
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: play on the title that Sanderson's doing.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: It's just a play on the time.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: Just like another philosopher of that time who's very similar.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're just you're gonna have your Plato's and your
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: aristotles in every turning of the wheel. Obviously, the Western
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: canon is the most pure form of your expression. No
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: other kind of part of the world could ever need
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: to be referenced.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: Well, this is a very Western coded society, so you
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: could pretend that in this turning of the wheel things
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: happened a lot in the same way that they happened
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: in ours.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: Sure, let's do that. Also, Minn is thinking about how
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: she doesn't like the conclusion she's reaching. She thinks that
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: the concept of breaking the seals is going to not
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: go over very well with people who were going to
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: think they know better.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: Which it doesn't. And that makes sense.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: Rand is on board. She's worried about Rand's opinion first,
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: but everyone after Rand is a problem.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then it makes sense. It's like, well, this
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: idea that if the seals break for even an instant,
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: the dark one will be freed and there's nothing you
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: can do to stop that. Like he does make the
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: point of like, no, it takes a while for him
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: to get out. It's like a narrow opening and stuff,
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: but like or no, no, sorry, that's not the case.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: It's just that Rand's whole ling him in place so
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: that when he does break the seals, he cannot the
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: seals are broke. That's why it's so important the light,
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: that he don't break the seals until you see the light.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: That's that's part of the last battle is Logan can't
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: break the seals to the light comes out of the
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: tower because at that point Rand has all three powers
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: and has seized the Dark One. If the seals are
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: broken before Rand has controled the Dark One, the Dark
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: One would have gotten out.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, there's this this baton handoff thing.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: And I think that's what everyone else is like, Hey,
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: you can't break the seals till you know how you're
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: gonna hold the Dark One in place because if you
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: break those seals, he's gonna get out. And so I
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: think that it was important and that's where she's thinking about.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: There's a missing piece that's calendar, right, that's how he's
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: gonna hold the dark one in place by using calendar
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: to amplify the true power, and then his bond with Morgan.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: But all the pieces are here in this chapter to
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: how he's gonna win the last battle.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And Min is still only halfway through this
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: master's thesis, PhD dissertation, whatever it is that she's working on.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: She has other pieces to put together, but this is
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: really her in full scholar mode.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: Anyhow, men were talking about men, We're talking about men
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: and her sort of thoughts. And then a lot of
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: her internal stuff is in this chapter. Her relationship with Avienda.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: They had become a little more comfortable with each other
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: that evening sharing usqua, but one day did not friends
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: make and she was definitely uncomfortable about sharing. I think
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: that that is a comment on the fact that there
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: was not enough interaction between the two of them earlier
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: on in this series, Like they needed to be better
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: friends at this point. Ye, Like you can see them
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: both with knives, both like to drink, Like there's clearly
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: as straightforwardness to both of them that they would appreciate
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: they could be friends, but it hasn't happened yet.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: Right, And I do like the acknowledgment that getting drunk
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: together is not the solid basis for permanent, lifelong friendships
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: or other relationships. You need more than just getting drunk together.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: Oh, that might explain what I've been doing wrong. Maybe
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying I've had a lot of friendships made
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: through doing drugs together, whether that's alcohol.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: Or but one time getting drunk together. No, no, that like,
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: I love you, man, we should be friends. Like, no,
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: that isn't. You got to do more work than that.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: Those are your temporary bar friends, right, Those are the
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: people who make at the bar and you're like best
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: friends so that night and then you're like, god, who
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: the fuck did I hang out with us night at
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: the Picture's like, oh my god, right, yeah.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: Exactly exactly. She She is correctly assessing that that is
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: not a solid basis for trusting someone's character and the
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: relationship you're going to have with them moving forward. But yes, no,
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: I mean I definitely you can forge some great friendships
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: with the use of drugs. It just takes a lot
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: of time and care and like not just.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: Alcohol, not just all yes, yes alcohol. So, going back
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: to the beginning of this podcast, I tried to force
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: a friendship with alcohol. Okay, anyway, Uh.
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: So we want to revisit herod Fell's note or we
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: passed that at this point.
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: Believe in order give strength, have to clear the rubble
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: before you can build. We'll explain when see you next.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: Do not bring girl too pretty is the note. It's
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: an old note from Robert Jordan, one of my favorites.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: And of course she's figured out that you have to
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: break the seals, right, that's what that means, clearing the rubble.
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty straightforward. Actually, it's one of those things
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: where it's like, did you need a philosophy degree to
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: figure that out? It seems pretty And I mean like
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: Paren is on board immediately when he hears it, because
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: he's like, well, that's a sound blacksmithing principle.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: So sure, perhaps the books had nothing to do with
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: his death. I don't think they did. I honestly think
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: he was a wrong place, wrong time, just too near Rand.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: I think I remember speculating that like it may have
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: thought he was Asmodian.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: Is that that was you did? That was your speculation,
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: was that they were the forsaken We're looking for Asmodian
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: and wondering about how Rand was gonna you know, benefit
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: from that blah blah blah, and yeah that was your hypothesis.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: Can't the goal and tell channelers from non channelers?
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: It can?
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but only if they're channeling or is it.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure it can just tell in general. But
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: maybe the weave that hides the ability to channel works
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: on them. Sure, because it's not applied to them, It's
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: applied to the subject. So maybe I'm just saying maybe
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: the golum was less discriminate. It just like does just
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: because I can't tell they can channel doesn't mean I'm
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: not gonna kill them, but yeah I do. I've always
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: wondered about that. But like Min obviously gets critical and
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: important information that does help rand from this quest. But
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: I've always wondered, like, was she on a wild goose
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: chase and just kind of happened across important information because
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: she was reading the right books to get important information from?
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: Oh? I think Herod Fell had important information. I just
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: don't think he was killed because of this information.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: Right, the thing that she's looking for, Right, She's trying
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: to put together a very specific like this is why
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: he was killed? And like does that even exist?
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah?
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: Is she actually chasing a figment of her imagination, and
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: the side quests are actually what needed to happen, you know.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Yeah. And it's not that I don't think
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: the Dark One wanted to get kill Harrod Fell. I
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: just don't think he would have had any idea who
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: he was, Like, there was no one. Just I think
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: we speculated that whoever had controlled the goals wouldn't have
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: known to send it after Herod fell.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: Right, because this note doesn't exist anywhere except in randon
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: men's heads.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: Right right, And so it's like and no one else
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: was around to read it. Like, so I'm just like
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: either the goal either Parah Fell was in wrong place
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: the wrong time, or you know, they thought he was
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: somebody else, or.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: There was just a general sense that Rand cannot have
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: a good aligned philosopher on his team. I guess like
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: maybe it was just a matter of like, oh, if
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: we have a philosopher who's not a nihilist, then like
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: he's going to figure stuff out like a really wide
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: kind of net. But yeah, Rand has so few of
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: his advisors get assassinated that that doesn't feel like it
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: holds water.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: No exactly. Yeah, it's just it's such a weird moment
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: that feels very why Haired fell? And then they bring
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: it up, and he brings it up repeatedly, why Herod Felt?
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: Why hair It fell? And it's like he's rubbing that
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: question in your face, and it's like, I have to
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: speculate on something, right, Like I have to go in
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: some outlandish so I.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: Planted fool the thing that maybe Sameel just was keeping
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: like eyes and ears on, like Fell's organization and like
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: their general feels of study.
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: I just feel like anything anything you pick is going
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: to be a stretch, right, Like there's nothing that's like,
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: ahh that makes sense more than the other options.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: Okay, maybe harod Felt insulted the Golam's mother when they
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: were both in kindergarten together and he just never could
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: let it go.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: I didn't know where it fell was that old, But okay, that's.
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: The part of my story you're going to pick apart.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: Not the goals were never children or mothers or.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know. It's weird. I wish that there
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: was something more conclusive for something that is so pivotal
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: in men and Rand's metaphysical, like how to defeat the
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: Dark One journey It feels like this critical turning point
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: should be less ambiguous to us after all these rates.
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: Right, Like was the dark one trying to hide this
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: or was it just like severe inness? Then I feel
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: like this is honestly, this is one of those things
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: where I'm like, it just feels like Jordan I wanted
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: to introduce it but then realize he needed to delay it,
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: so he just killed all the character. But he was
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: also I think he was also giving min a quest,
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: right like, I think he was trying to give men
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: something here, like I think this was. And I think
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: that's what's frustrating to me, is like, for it's such
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: an important part of Men's character arc that the start
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: of it to be so ambiguous.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: Did he realize he wrote a sexy lamp and then
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: like try to put a.
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: Patch in to like I think so I think maybe.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: I don't like that. I agree, but I don't like that.
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, this feels like when Harriet said, like, why
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: do you have a fourth boy? What is he doing?
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: He doesn't have a purpose? Cut him and she said
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: the same thing about men, what are you doing? She's
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: not doing anything there? Give her a purpose? And he's like, fine,
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: I'll give her Harod Fel's job. I'll kill him and
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: give her the books.
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: Harod Fell died to fix a man's accidental misogyny in
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: his writing. That's what Harod Feld died for. It's terrible
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: Parrotfeld did nothing wrong, but he.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: He danced with those women at that party, and they
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: were much younger than him, and there were multiple though.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: He also did say that Min was distractingly sexy. Cancel
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: Harod felt everything wrong.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: That's what we're doing in this episode. We're canceling people.
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: Moving on from Harod Fel's mysterious murder men. Thinks about
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: how it doesn't matter if half the fandom thinks she's
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: a sexy lamp as long as she did something useful. Yeah,
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: I appreciate. And then Rand wakes up and she's like god,
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: damn it, go back to sleep.
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: He's like no, and he wakes up and goes, oh,
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: he's back though there's a voice in my head, so
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: we know Lewis Theron's back in his head because he's
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: back in his own body.
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: Right, And Min does the thing where she absolutely doesn't
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: want to hear about Rand's mental illness, but then also
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: asks for information about Rand's mental illness, and it's like, men,
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: you need to decide that you're on board. But the
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: fact that he's mentally ill, stop lying, just get on board.
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're totally insane. It's not I'm not insane. It's
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: the voice in my head that's insane. Okay, okay. And
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: sometimes he does stuff and channels and uses magic. Sometimes
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: I give him the big guns that I have in
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: my session. Terrifying, absolutely fucking terrifying. Rand, Yeah, that would
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: be upsetting, It would be very upsetting. The fact that
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: men doesn't run screaming at that moment is kind of
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: insane or extremely sane.
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, no, that's it's a lot. It's asking
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: her of her a lot to be like, yes, I
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: let the mad mat in my head drive the car
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: sometimes when you're in it. She's like, really, really that's comforting.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but he's a really good driver. He's way better
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: than I am.
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: She's like, so that explains where all the speeding tickets
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: have been coming from.
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: Here's a line. I don't like. There are things going
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: on in there behind those ideal eyes of yours, Rand.
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: I don't like her calling them a eel eyes. Yeah,
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: it's an insult. It feels like an insult. It feels
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: like a slur. Your black eyed ieel.
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she's like, you're so exotic and mysterious, like I
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: can't read your face because you're different. Yeah, it doesn't
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: seem necessary and.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: It doesn't seem men like like anyone else saying your
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: idealized Sure, like cod Swain saying that totally men. She
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: sees Rand's eyes not ideal eyes.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I get Yeah, it really doesn't feel like a
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: thing she would say, feels like a Sanderson fumble. Just
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: don't quite don't quite like that. I do like the
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: part where Randa is like, I can't tell you what's
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: going on with me because you'll be scared, and she's like, what, so,
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: I'm a fragile flower. I do like that retort, which
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: is like your your level of protective.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: No, you're a fragile lamp god, I know right, Like
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: I do.
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: I do like that that we're getting some airtime on
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: the like, stop putting women on pedestals for a goddamn minute, like.
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: You'll think I met. I already think you're a whole
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: headed fool.
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: It's so cute they're flirting but having a very serious.
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: Conversation and so he basically says, yeah, I do have
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: a voice in my head and all that kind of stuff.
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: We talked about that already. No, man, he's saying, I'm
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: not Mean's.
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: Like, is that how it is for all of them?
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: They insist that they're not the insane ones, and it's like,
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: it does seem to be a theme with people who
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: hear voices s.
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: Particularly in this world, but that's not how they all
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: go insane, except in the TV show it appears that's
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: all they they they did just make everybody go insane
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: in the same way.
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: Yes all to all two of them.
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: Yes, well, but implied that everybody. It's like that happens
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: to all of them, because he's like, Rand, is this
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: what happened to you? Because this is what happens to
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: everybody I've talked to who has the power, And it
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: just gets worse. And there's a progression, a clear progression.
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: Oh it's a lot simpler than a thousand different ways
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: that your brain could fracture. Right, purpose is a storytelling.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: They did. They did. They did reduce the options in
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: the shell. That's the kindest way out put it. They've
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: reduced the possible options in which they can go in
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: the TV show yep.
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: So then Rand breaks containment on the information about bailfire.
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: So that's good. That information is now getting out of
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: the dark circles in the dreams. It is now getting
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: too like regular people on the light side.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: That Bailfia will work again. Very weird that a shawmael
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: let that one slip. That mor didn't let that one slip, right,
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: You think he would hold onto that. It feels like
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: an oversight of someone who's distracted and wasn't expecting Rand
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: to be in his But it's like, man, that is
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: a huge tool. That's a very powerful tool to know
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: that that's the only way they cannot resurrect is with
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: bail fire. Well that or the shadow of Logoth, but
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: that's gone now.
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he kind of neutralized that one.
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a big hole on the ground. And then
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: we get the line how in a way, the dark
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: one's own taint will destroy him for his It is
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: what gave me access to Lewis theren which is what
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: gives him, you know, the planning of the last ceiling
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: and the ability to overcome the mistakes he made and
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: like all that kind of stuff, like and this is
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: where I think this is my prime example of how
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: Brandon Sanderson really loves to point out the obvious in
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: text right in a way the dark One's taint will
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: destroy him. For it's what gave me access to Lewis Theron.
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: I would love to have seen that happen, not be
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: told that's how it's going to happen.
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, definitely getting into the spelling it out at
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: nauseum part of.
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: The metaphysics, which I mean and I get. I appreciate
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: on some level that Sanderson kind of had to do
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: that to end the series in a satisfying way, right, Oh.
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's also one of his
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: flawses of writers if he likes it too much.
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: Yes, And it's why I do like that he ended
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: these books because in a lot of ways, we don't
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: have to have arguments with people after the series is
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: over about whether rand was insane or not the whole time, right,
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: he spells.
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: It out right, Yeah, for sure, for sure, we did
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: kind of need that to levin out Robert Jordan's believe
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: it doesn't exercise for the reader's style writing.
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, The Lion of the Tiger part of Robert Jordan's
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: writing which is right, The Lady and the Tiger. Sorry,
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: oh yeah, yeah, the Lion of the Tiger.
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: I was like, am I misunderstanding though?
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: Sorry, Lady and the Tiger. That's a reference to a
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: short story that we had to read in middle school.
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: Maybe I'm not understanding the reference.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: It's the guy is in Oh gosh. So I don't
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: remember the entire setup for it, but essentially, he's sleeping
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: with the princess, gets caught, thrown in jail, and he
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: gets put in the arena. And the way the arena
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: works is there's two doors. Behind one is a beautiful
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: lady that you get to go home with, and the
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: other one is a lion who will eat you alive.
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: And his lady loved the princess knows what's behind each
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: door because she's up in the tower and she can
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: see what's behind each door. And so he looks up
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: at her and it beseeches her to give him, you know,
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: the answer, and she points him at a door, and
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: he goes and he opens the door, and the story ends.
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: And so it's the idea that you never get to
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: know whether he is eaten, whether the woman he loves
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: would rather have him be eaten by a tiger or
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: go home with another woman and survive, and like.
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: Wow, you don't get to know, so I never came
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: across that story.
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: That's intense, right yeah. And then and that's sort of
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: the Lady of the Tiger is my way of referencing, like, oh,
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: he's not going to tell you the ending of the story.
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: It's left to the reader to the side, right right,
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: and and and in a lot of ways it is
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: a reflection back on the reader and back on you.
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: What do you think the woman would point him at?
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: You think you know?
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: Interpretation?
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: Your interpretation is tells a lot more about you. And
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: that's and that's good storytelling in a way. But over
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: youse of it means you're just coming up with plot
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: lines that never end. So yeah, they might have just
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: watching Lost, right you know.
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: That's yeah, bit of both. So yeah, that's a good
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: way of contrasting them. So yeah, Rand and Men are
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: talking about things, and then Men gets a big blast
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: of visions about him, but none of it's interesting. It's
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: just there for Brandon Sanderson to say, Look, envisions is nice.
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: Oh my god. He says fireflies consumed in darkness, like
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: great reference to the beginning, But give us some sort
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: of like she always said, they're they're either being consumed
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: faster than a bit and then they're being created or
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: you're keeping up now would be a great like give
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: us some idea of how fast they're being consumed. That's
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: an important marker. It would mean something if you didn't
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: just say they existed, but that they were. I guess
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: he's saying they're being consumed completely. Is that because Rand's
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: in his deep, deep, deep anger?
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: I think so. Yeah, because he's Darth and that's what
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: it is.
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: Just like he's yeah, he's darthan out, So I guess
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: I guess that's That's what I'm taking from that is
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: his Darth darkness and nobody else is around him, and
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: so he's just wiping out the fireflies immediately. Yeah, again
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: not really of the future of now. And then three
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: women before a pyre. We've seen that many times before, right,
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: we know that's men Avianda and Elaine at Rand's you know,
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: Morgan's death. Actually yeah, flashes of light, darkness, shadow, signs
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: of death, oh my god, signs of death. How yeah, crowns, injuries, pain,
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: It's just like, thank you, Brandon, thank yeah, that's that's great,
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: that's great.
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: That's ten fists around rand All four. We've never heard
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: that before.
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: A storm is coming. A storm is coming. Okay, sorry
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: the dramaticism.
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Men ends this section feeling like Randa's opened up
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: to her a little bit and there's a little bit
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: of softness and a little bit of openness, tiny bit,
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: and she's like, oh, it's a beginning. I can I
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: can work in him. I can still fix him. And
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: you know, we know that Samarag is going to very
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: much shut that door very.
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: Firmly, right right, very soon, very soon.
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: And uh yeah. With that, we shift to his other
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: lady love Aveanda.
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: Who's punishing herself.
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: Hmm, she really is. She's doing a really dumb punishment
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: where she's moving a candle flame back and forth across
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: the yard at night. And in the course of having
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: a conversation with a wise one, as per usual, they
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: get to actually like talk to some other ideal about
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: a real problem, which is cool. But then the wise
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: one is like, you still aren't learning fast enough, And
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: I think that means that the next time we see
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: her doing her punishments, she's it's going to be the
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: last time. I'm pretty sure, I think so.
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: I think so. I really I struggled to find anything
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: to say about this segment, Like, I had a couple
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: of highlights about this happens, then that happens, But you
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: summed it up pretty well and I don't have much
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: commentary on it. Do you have anything to say?
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that it's interesting how they handle the
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: news that these newcomers bring. Right. So, what happens is
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: Avanda is talking to Amy's, and Amy's is trying to
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: like hint at Alvanda what she needs to do, and
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: then Dahmer, Flynn, Davrin Bashir, and a guard of Saudean's
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: and Ayel come into camp having negotiated a second meeting
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: with the shan Chan, and one of them, may Kurana,
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: comes over to report on this and also brings the
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: news about the captured shidow wise ones from parents attack
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: on Malden and the way that this information lands with
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: the Aeel. I mean, this is the very first time
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: that any decision makers among the Iel are getting to
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: hear about it. Right, This is a maiden bringing the
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: intel back and a Vianda and Amis have to react
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: to it. And their argument is basically that is going
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: to need to be first thing after we defeat evil.
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: Like they literally say, we're gonna have to make peace
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: with the shan Chan, despite the fact that they have
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: ideal wise ones as Demani. We're literally going to have
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: to table that until after the existential fight with literal evil.
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: That is their takeaway. And I'm not totally sure how
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: I feel about that call.
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: You know, yeah, I mean, I feel like it's necessary.
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: I feel like the last battle is happening, It's happening soon.
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: This is sort of where you have to say, like,
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: I can't do anything in the next couple of weeks,
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: so I can't change the society in a couple of weeks.
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go fight the last battle and then
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: we can worry about it. I understand the practicality of it.
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: I understand that you want it to like, we don't
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: want to work with the sean Chan. We want to
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: draw a hard line. These are bad people. They have slaves,
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: they've taken our people's slaves, but they're just shidoh mostly,
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: which aren't really their people anymore.
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, the argument has been made repeatedly that the
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: shidow may have lost the ieeal way they've lost their geatoe.
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: I firmly believe in the same way that that the
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: Tinkers aren't ieal anymore, right the way the Thirteenth Clan,
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: the Genieel aren't really ieal anymore. There's gen and there's
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: aeal in the enemies, right, like right, right, They're different
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: and in a lot of ways, the Shidoh are I
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: they're not ideal anymore.
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: You talk like a shidoh, right, they're speciating in a
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: cultural sense.
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, they're breaking off their swarming and like
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: they've really become this separate. They're infected with the idea
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: of Kuli in Cordycepsidon.
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but like, I don't know that I like the
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: ideal saying, well, they don't have the same level of
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: honor as us, so they don't deserve the same human
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: rights as us. I don't know if I like that
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: line of reasoning.
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but there's a certain amount of like.
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: Risk when going after no for sure, I mean it
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: it is a triage of timing because literally the last
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: battle is a few weeks away, and like that's organizing
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: a campaign to deal with the problem would probably take
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: all the remaining time we have between now and the
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: last battle. That's very real, because yeah, I get it,
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: it makes sense, but I just like, ooh, I.
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: Mean, if you really think back to the doldrums of
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: this book series, right, the part of the book that
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: we all talk about is this slog that was really slow.
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: What were they trying to do? They were trying to drive.
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: Why was the plot not advancing because we were stuck
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: on trying to drive the sean Chan off the continent? Right,
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: That's what Rand is doing. That's what you know, a
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: lot of these characters are driving at That's that's what
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: fucking Maldon's all about, right, Like, well kind of, but
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: I did that thing where I lost I was talking
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: so much I lost my original point. We were just
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: talking about the baby hitting of the episode. But yeah,
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: it's just it's frustrating. The Seawan Chan problem is something
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: that we kind of had to move beyond to fight
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: the last battle, and it never really got solved satisfactorily,
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: and both I think Sanderson as an author and us
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: as readers and the people in world have had to say, Okay,
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: this has to be a problem for after the last battle.
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: Yep, yep, and uh, that's how the wise ones, Amy's
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: and Avianda agree on it, and then Amy's looks at
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: the wise one Avianda and says, get your shit together.
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: We need you to fight the last battle. And then
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: the chapter ends because Avianda is still acting like an apprentice.
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: Uh, do you want to read us out last? Just
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: like couple paragraphs?
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Sure. There will be dangerous words of this among
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: the spears, Amy said thoughtfully, there will be calls to attack,
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: demands that the car car and give up his attempts
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: to make peace. Will he stay with them when he refuses?
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: Avianda asked, of course they will. Amy said, there are yell.
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: She glanced at Avianda. We haven't much time, child. Perhaps
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: it is time to stop coddling you. I will think
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: up better punishments for you starting tomorrow, coddling me. Avianda
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: watched Ammy's stalk away. They couldn't possibly come up with
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: anything more useless or demeaning, but she'd learned long ago
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: not to underestimate Amy's. With a sigh, Aviander broke into
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: a trot, heading back toward her tent. Moving into the
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: next chapter.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: We're going right into it, all right. We're going to
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: try and hit every major character except Matt today basically, Yeah,
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: there's a couple of POV switches. We're hitting Aquain no Matt,
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: no Elaine, but we're gonna hit Awuaine, Avianda, Men Rand Paren.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's it's a lot of a lot of
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: povs for not a lot of plot.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: Not a lot of plot, but each one gets one
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: little advancement, right, everyone gets to move forward one square
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: on their progression towards the last battle.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: And I shouldn't say it's it's not very much plot.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: It's a lot of plot. It's just much more action
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: scene than podcast content plot.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we are now in the White Tower. That's the
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: chapter in the White Tower, and the symbol is the
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: flame of Tarbaalin because we are in the White Tower.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: And kind of the read in for this sort of
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: feels like a thought continuation from the last chapter, right,
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: because we've got Aveenda being interviewed for her opinions on
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: what's happening with Randa. Then we roll right into a
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: conversation with Agwain and some sitters talking about how to
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: handle Rand and it's a test of Agwaine's leadership chops basically.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: And that's so she's been going around being tested and
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: training with all these different is said I. And this
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: has been going on for like a month, right, And
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: so she's been cultivating these relationships and answering these questions
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: and basically acting like an Amerlin in private to these
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: people one on one exactly exactly.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: And this is the last meeting she has before it
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: gets taken away as a mechanism.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: Before things escalate. Slash cumulate, No accumulate, no accumulate, no.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: Max no culminate, Yes, thank you, there we go culminate. Yeah.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: And I don't even like know what to read in
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: for this, so I'll just say, yeah, it's it's just
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: it's a transition of the same kind of vibe. We've
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: got three whites sitting in wicker chairs at a low
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: table and agway, and sitting in front of them with
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: her back to the window, cracking nuts for these whites
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: as they talk. And it's been almost an hour before
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: they actually turned to her with anything of interest. And
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: I kind of tracked like the nut cracking process, because
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: she does at one point set the nutcracker aside. It's
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: kind of like transitions to being like just the omerline.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: She doesn't continue cracking nuts as the conversation gets really deep.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: That's that's good. I you read much more into this
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: than I did.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 3: I had.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: I had again same thing where this part of the chapter,
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: the beginning of the chapter, before the meeting, I was
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: just like m she's she's being smart and giving advice.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: But this is more important than giving advice. That was
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: all preamble. This is what they actually asked her. How
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: would you handle the dragon reborn?
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: This is the final test.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: This isn't the Problemquitz.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: This is the actual final test. Well, that's that's all
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: that matters in this chapter.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: I totally know. I totally agree with you. I had
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: nothing highlighted before that I had. I had a lot
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: of and I don't really is there anything important about
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: these I said, I nothing that I found.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: I trusted you to do the homework on that, because
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: all I remember is that Measi has a thing about
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: only eating whole half walnuts. Of these three whites, that's
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: the old thing I remember is that Meosti has a
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: thing about not eating partial walnut pieces. I don't think
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: that there's anything else interesting about them. I guess they're sitters, but.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: Uh Miasi is a black.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: Oh well that's interesting. Dark friend alert dark friend alert.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: So the slightly neurotic one is also evil. That's good
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: to know.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: Nothing about Teason, who's the third very rain brain. She
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: used to be a sitter, becomes a sitter again. She
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: is essentially one of the sitters for the rest of
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: the series of the Tower, but of a mat she's
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: in that group, right but.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: Not Okay, so she's an older, respected sitter who retains
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: her seat through the merger, the re merch. Okay, yeah,
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: so yeah, not a lot of interest here, but what's
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: important is that, you know, Agwain gets to lay out
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: how she is different from Alida. Right, this is the
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: really important campaign question is how are you different from
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: your opponent? We know how Alida has handled the situation,
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: Well what would you have done differently? And Agwaine says,
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: you know, very generic things, and there's like, oh, did
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: you mean me personally? I thought it was a hypothetical. Right,
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: she's playing all KOI with them. It's really funny.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: But then you know, she.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: Basically says, you gather intelligence however you can, and then
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: you do your best to be influential rather than arrogant
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: and trying to slap your name on everything just for
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: shits and giggles and the Asidar like that is a
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: pro found departure from normal Tower policy. Actually, she's like, no,
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: it's not. Historically speaking, y'all are subtle as hell, Like
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: why did you have to become brash and ridiculous at
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: the last minute when the final test is coming, Like
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: Elida's so out of character for the Tower in this
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: moment of crisis.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, And I gosh, I gotta think that's the
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: Dark One's influence somehow, is the breaking of the tower
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: and the brashness.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: It's fine as much as the Dark One.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, there is that.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like Faine really put a number on Alida specifically
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: as a person. And then the part where Pod and
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: Fain is also was a dark Friend before he became
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: more death and did dark friend things as well as
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: more death things.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: I also really love the part where Gwayne's like, if
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: Ran changed, I, you know, I'd have to deal with that,
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: and like, I but I clearly am the same person exactly.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: It's just like that's the kind of stuff that makes it.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: It drives me nuts about Agwayne is just how much
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: she's like, I'm the exact same person. None of this
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: has changed me at all away. You have gone through
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: so much shit you barely resemble the girl who has left,
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: and you certainly don't treat rand as the same person.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: Ever, she's in this way, she is kind of a
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: perfect pair for Gowen because she has the like inverse
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: opinion of Gawen. Right, Gawa's like randol Thor has changed
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: completely into a monster. Agwainne's like randol Thor couldn't have
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: changed in the slightest right, They're just equal opposite levels
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: of Like. No, Randolphor is a person who's having a journey,
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: just like everyone else. But no, we have to have
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: absolute opinions about how other people are versus ourselves.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and god, we really don't know how much influence
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: Messana had on Alida, Right, she was clearly running Alviren's
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: influence right, like a puppet, But like, what else was
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: she doing in the tower? She wasn't just messing with
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: al vi Aren't right?
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: We never hear about anything that Danelle got up to from,
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: you know, stuff to do with the coup. But yeah,
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: one assumes that she was able to do all kinds
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: of weird things to help keep things shenanigans high.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: I wonder if that's why the wards are breaking down
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: in the tower. I wonder if it has nothing to
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: do with the Dark One. But what if Danell's like
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: just going around breaking White Tower wards and that's why
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: the rats and stuff can get in and they're like, oh,
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: it's a sign of the Dark One. And it's like, yeah,
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: kind of, but not the way you think it is,
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: I kind of love that idea that like, yeah, the
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: power is failing in some regards. You know, some of
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: the keepings are not working. You know, these tried and
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: true weaves are dying. But yeah, wouldn't it be funny
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: if some of it was just Missana coming along and
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: just like untying the magical knots that kept the thing
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: in place. That it's a just simpler explanation.
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: I love it. Well at anytime I can prove the
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: characters wrong, it's fun mm hmm. Yeah, but like, yeah,
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: what else would she be doing? Right?
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: Like I also do like the the Igwain is like this,
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: this conversation isn't really about rand it's about me, and
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: it's not even really about me. It's about me vers Alida, Right,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: She's really good at cutting to the heart of the
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: conversation as it's actually happening, not the superficial layer, which
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: you know, as artistic people, I think we admire that
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: skill because what I would be like, well, literally Rand
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: likes to brush his hair with a certain kind of
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: you know, I'd be all off in the wrong details,
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: you know, And I love her.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: Also, like, I mean, like, well, what would you do
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: if you're an alight to switch situations? Like, I wouldn't
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: be in a light of situation. I'm not Ali, I
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: wouldn't have done the dumb shit she did, Like why
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: would I? Like? Yeah, which some I feel that so
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: often when someone's like people throw hypotheticals at me and
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: they're like, well, what would you do if you were
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: like downtown trying to buy a large amount of drugs
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: with a gun in your pocket? And I'm like, in what,
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: there's so many things that in my life that have
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: to change for that eating being a remote possibility. That
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: would be a totally different person and would answer the
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: question totally differently, like I'm not the person in that hypothetical.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: I don't know what I would do.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: Sorry, right, right, And yeah, that's and that's very the
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: tower to be like, well, people can just be slotted
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: in and out of these stereotypes because we're the academics
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: and we know what's best. A gwayn has to be like,
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: first of all, the aeal are not subjugated. Second of all,
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: Randolphori is like a river. Right, She's got all these
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: very great concepts, and she's like, okay, ay, you picking
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: up what I'm putting down. Rand is like a river.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: You need to like work with the force of the river,
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: not against it, like ringing a randolphor like I'm taking
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: more of like it's an analogy to Sidar. But and
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: then she also thinks about how the whites have maybe
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: a bit of a rigid approach to people. People are
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: much more complex than a sead of rules or numbers.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: There's a time for logic, but there's also a time
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: for emotion, again proving that she is a good Omorlin candidate.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: And I would send a gray with a you know,
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: blue and a green because he likes blues and greens,
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: but led by a gray because that's they're supposed to
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: be negotiating, not fighting, And like you'd keep the reds
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: really far away from him. And yeah, yeah, all the
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: common sense shit that we've said of like where are
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: the Grays in all of this negotiating in situation? Like
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: where what are they doing? Nothing effective? Right?
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: And she points out, you know, dealing with is different
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: from working with These are very different approaches. You can't
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: just throw reds at the problem, like he's another random
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: rabid man in the interval between the breaking and the
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: last battle, and that that comes.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: Up with Alia later when she's like, what would you
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: have done with him if you captured him, you know,
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: stuck him in a hole and he couldn't fulfill any prophecies,
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: Like that's dealing with You need to work with this man.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly exactly. So it's you know, it's a good interview.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: And then they're like, well but but she's like, how
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: about we fix our own Househirst, Maybe maybe we fix
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: the tower. Maybe the tower needs to be fixed before
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: we can like work on hypotheticals about Randall Thorpe. Maybe possibly,
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: And then the Whites just do the most ridiculous like
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: Darvo right, They're like, well, we didn't cause it, it's
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: not our responsibility to fix it. And it's like everyone
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: caused it and everyone needs to fix it. It's it's
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: not that hard.
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: No, it's the people with emotions that are the problem.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: We're logical, we don't have we don't have emotions.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, Oh my god. Like like, well, will
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: nobody accept accountability?
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: I mean again, like parallels to modern society, Like will
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: nobody accept fucking accountability for the patch of floor around them? Please?
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah? We have a terrible leader in place, and you
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: people have the power to do something about it, and
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: you're just sitting there on your thumbs doing absolutely nothing
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: while he dismantles our goddamn democracy and you have no
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: desire to change the ameshed powers structure that is allowing
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: you to hold on to what you have long after
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: you should have fucking retired, you geriatric pieces of shit,
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: and yet you continue to profit. Stupid sitters.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: That's yep, definitely sitters, not senators. Definitely the sitters.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: People need to take responsibility for being part of the
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: system that they are part of. And the system, the
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: system is designed to create the outcomes that it creates.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: So do the math take some responsibility? Sitters?
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah? God, The fact that the fact that Trump has
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: just gotten reelected after I mean we've been now been
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: doing this podcast long enough, right through his entire first presidency,
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: through Biden's presidency, and now we're back, and the parallels
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: that we made between Trump and Alida were so strong
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: back in the day, and the fact that we are
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: here at this point in this book series when he
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: is re elected, when it is just all about how
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: awful leadership can divide something in such a way that
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: it cannot be reunited unless you remove that leadership, and
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: the people in power need to do something about it.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: It's just.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: You want to battle the dark one. Your first step
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: is not to deal with existential crises. Your first step
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: should be to reach out.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: To each other. Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's just it's
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: so appropriate, it's so highly appropriate in a way that
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: that m it's upsetting. I have I have emotions. I
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: have emotions. I think a lot of people do. Yeah.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: So a GWayne continues to dress down the whites. They
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: eventually are like, all right, we get it, we gotta
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: we gotta participate in Agwin's like, yes, progress fantastic, and
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: she leaves and runs right into Katerine dark friend Alert,
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: who's like, I have taken away all of your free
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: roaming privileges, that excitement that you just felt instantly going
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: to take that away. Not for you, not anymore you're
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: making progress or putting the kabash on that.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: I do have one more thing to say, when when
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: when a GWayne is talking about how bad al Viren
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: fucked up and blames it on the whites and says,
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: your odd ja messed it up, Miasi, the dark friend
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: is the one who recoils and gets all offended because
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: it's not just her white odd jaw, it's also her
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: dark god job. So anyway, that was a fun little
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: bit that I think I missed the first time because
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: I didn't realize she was black.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: I didn't notice that that's a good catch. Oh yeah,
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: they also like blow Agwain, like blows the lid on
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: the thing about eyes to die getting bonded by Ashaman.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: That's apparently a consternation moment in the conversation, but I
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: didn't think it was interesting, so I didn't mention it.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: She talks about hoping the browns run a across the
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: story of Ranala Merlone looked everywhere. There's nothing more about
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: it other than it appears to be some story the
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: brown about a brown who was in a similar situation
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: but this is the only reference to it in the series.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: So I love that kind of world building. You do
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: all the work, the author does, none of the work.
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: They're like, yeah, there's a story by this person who
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: the parallel should be obvious. Anyway, moving on, Like, I
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: love that kind of world building. It's so airy.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: It's like making up a word and using it in
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: context and then just never using it again and being like, yeah,
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: you know what that word was, You know it.
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I had it. Someone pointed it out to me
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: years ago with respect to some of the world building
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: in Star Wars. Ironically, that's part of why the world
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: building of Star Wars in the original trilogy is like
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: so good is because there's a lot of unexplained terminology
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: references that just never get explained ever, and that's what
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: makes the world so rich and engaging for people. And
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: ever since that ente it's been pointed out to me,
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: I've noticed a lot of stories do it, and it's
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: always very effective when they do, Like, it's amazing. It's
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: like whipped egg whites. There's nothing there and yet it
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: makes such a big difference. It's just air so.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: Great well, and for me, it's really important storytelling to
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: have enough details in there that when you have a
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: detail that's important to the story, you're not putting it
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: up on the wall and saying, this is Chekhov's gun.
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: You know, like, there's got to be enough detail in
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: the story that this little bit doesn't seem relevant until
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: later when you can be like, Oh, that's what that meant.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: I lost it in all the other little details. And
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: if you don't have all those little meaningless details, you
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: can't slip in meaningful details without it looking like a
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: giant sticker on your forehead, right Like. So that's kind
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: of why I love Robert Jordan's really descriptive writing, because
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: on every reread, we're finding sentences, and we're on this
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: podcast journey, we're finding little sentences and words that we
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: may have missed. They're like, Oh, that's what that meant.
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: I missed it in this descriptive writing. I missed it
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: in the forest, right Like. That's what gives this series rereadability.
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: And that's one of the reasons why I think I
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: don't like Sanderson's stuff as much, because every detail means something,
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: and he gets his volume through repetition, right yeah, And
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: so he just he's hammering points in over and over
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: and over again as opposed to slipping them into all
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: the details.
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it just chews different.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: So yeah, Agwaine gets told that her life is going
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: to be fifteen hours of manual labor every day until
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 2: she does whatever it is Alta wants, and Agwaine thinks
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: about it and realizes that that's a problem, but she's
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: gonna have to stay the course. It really sucks for
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: her accessibility to other sisters, but she can't budge an
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: inch because that will not work for her campaign.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: Basically, once Alida has an effective tool to punish her
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: into getting her to do what she wants, she no
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: longer is an independent person. Then she just becomes subjugated
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: to Alight as well, and then she's not and then
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: she's lost.
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: Yep, yep.
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: So this can't become an effective thing. So she goes
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: and scrubs and we get a little cute Laura scene
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: where Lauras tries to sneak her out.
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: Laras is so cool. Her backstory is another one of
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 2: those things that just the less said, the more we speculate,
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: and the wilder it gets.
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: Well, it's just like she talks about being a pretty
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: young thing. She talks about getting in trouble.
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: Near to hanging a time or two.
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, yeah, Jesus, I think she has a connection
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: to the kin. Oh, definitely, she has to, right, she
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: has to. She's there are when when certain novices or
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: accepted are no longer cut making it in the White
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: Tower and they want to run away and they're being
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: punished or some Lauris feels that it's not fair for them.
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: She has been sneaking them out and connecting them with
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: the Can, and the Can have been getting them out. Agreed,
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: And I think the only effective way, only effective way
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: to run away from the White Tower is with Laras's help.
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: I think the only ones that have ever actually made it.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah. My only point of speculation left in that canon
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 2: is why what is the inciting incident that brings her
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: to the tower and makes her decide that this is
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: her life's mission. There's ah, there's just so much like
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: that's a powerful mission she's assigned herself. Why she did
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 2: not do that on a whim? Why it's it's so juicy,
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it's a good scene. Lara sneaks up super sneaky,
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: sneaky and is like, here is my well oiled sneaking
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 2: girls out.
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: Machine, Rick, And we have to mention, of course she
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: did it with men and the old Ammeulin and Swan. Right, Yeah,
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: so she's snuck all three of them.
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 2: Out, and those she only got out of the tower.
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: She's offering to get to GWayne all the way to
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 2: the river.
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: Well, there was a rebellion going on then, so it's
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: a little bit harder when there's that.
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: Sure, Yeah, no, totally for sure.
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: There's no battle going on.
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: Well, I guess there is a not in the same
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 2: way the Hitler youth is not running around murdering.
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: Their tastirs the compelled Hitler youth.
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes. And then Agwayne thinks seriously about taking
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 2: the offer because it doesn't count as being whisked away
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: by her army. But she makes the decision that she
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 2: can still be more effective inside the tower than outside
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: and turns it down, and Lara's presumably gains a great
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 2: measure of respect for her, and then you know, takes
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: off her spy disguise and goes walking back into the
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: kitchen all loud and brushing against stuff, and you're just
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: like Laras has so many secret skills it's so cool.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: So I'm thinking what twenty years ago she was. I'm
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: thinking something during the Ideal War was going on, right,
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: that's probably the time when she was a young girl
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: who was doing all of these things.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: Is she mentioned in New Spring?
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I do not think, so let me
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: go double chuck.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: But because that would be an important piece of data
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: to pinning down her timeline, as if she's mentioned anywhere
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: in New Spring, she.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: Is New Spring chapter six, when Moraine and Suan dwaddle
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: over breakfast, laws frowns at them until they leave.
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 2: So she's already a cook at that point.
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: During the al war, she is plump and more than
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: pretty short of her middle years. So this is probably
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: right after all that, because she's plump and more than
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: pretty short of her milli years. So she's starting to
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: get plump fish, right, not a slim little thing that
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: she talks about well.
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 2: And she's she's clearly got authority in the kitchen. So
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: she's been working her way up the ranks for probably
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 2: a couple of years. It's her wild past has to
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 2: be slightly.
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: In the rear view, sure, okay, yeah, point yeah, So
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: probably more like thirty years ago right.
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I'm thinking if she was into so wild Shenanigans,
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 2: like say between the ages of fifteen and twenty five,
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 2: right by the time she's thirty, she's like settled down
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: into the White Tower, and then the books start and
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: she's already like established there, like in her mid thirties,
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: like coming up on forty. By the time that these
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 2: books are happening, she's like in her sixties.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: Graying hair like right, like late fifties.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so yeah, whatever happened in her life to
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: assign her to the Tower happens entirely before even the prequel.
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 2: Her entire story starts years before the prequel, probably before
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: more Rain and Swan even show up to the Tower.
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: But yet there must be Isadai who were still alive
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: from that time, who were around right.
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 2: Like, so well, one assumes she didn't get up to
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 2: that trouble in Tarvlin. One assumes that was in a
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 2: different country entirely, and she came to Tarvalin to start over.
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: Ooh that I I did not assume that. I assumed
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: it was in Tarvollin and she somehow ended up in
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: the tower because of that trouble.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 2: Oh no, I mean why she in the towers a
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: non channel or why is she so invested in the
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: fate of the channeling girls and she's not a channeler.
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 2: I kind of have always thought that, like maybe she
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 2: she was stilled. This was how she handled burned out.
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: I kind of thought maybe this was how she handled
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 2: being burned out, burned out yet, like maybe she got
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: a tiny taste early in life burned out as part
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: of training, and then this was how she clung to life,
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 2: was to be part of the infrastructure that made channelers happen,
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 2: and also the infrastructure that got women out.
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: I just feel like the eyes said, I would be
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: so much more uncomfortable around her.
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 2: Which maybe thinks maybe it was her sister who wanted
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 2: to get out and ended up like dying in training
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 2: instead because she didn't have a way to get out.
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 2: So then Laws decides to like a ninjas, sneak in
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 2: and get girls out for the next fifty years in retribution.
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: Like.
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: There's a backstory there, There's an inciting incident that motivated
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 2: her to do that. She didn't just stumble into it randomly.
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 2: I can't believe that, But yeah, you're right, if she
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: had been burned out, then they wouldn't have wanted to
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 2: deal with her. She went away for a few years
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: and then came back and didn't recognize her because you
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: know reasons.
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm thinking something had to get her involved with
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: the kin, right, right?
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 2: Why should and I her or a female relative?
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: Right. She would have been really good as Massana.
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: She would have been a good cover. But then Massanna
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 2: would have had to do chores, and we agreed last
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 2: recording that that's what would have broken Sammarog better.
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: No, Laras never did chores. She just had the Spoon
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: that she directed. Remember that one time she like stirred
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: and it was dirty.
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: She had to work her way up the rank. She
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 2: don't just come in his head chef with no experience.
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: Well, and that's right. She's been around long enough that
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: you shouldn't have been. She hasn't been around for like
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: two years, right, that would have been the key, right, Yeah.
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, life landed fool. That's excellent. Lara's fan art of
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: Lara's standing with the Spoon and the Stance and captioned,
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 2: I'm getting too old for this shit.
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: That's awesome, but also like she's probably also punished a
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: lot of living. I said, eye, right, considering that's where
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: most novices get sent for punishment, and she's been there
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: for thirty years.
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she's like another Mistress of Novices in that regard.
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, she doesn't beat them in quite the same way.
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: And probably been there longer than any existing mistress of novices,
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: Like I don't I don't know how long Cheerium was
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: Mistress of Novices, right, but I don't think it was
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: for thirty years.
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 2: I think it changes with each new administration.
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 2: So oh, I like Samonisa's head canon. This is satala
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 2: Ann's promiscuous sister. Why not tie the head canon to
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 2: satala En?
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: Sure, except I think tatala Non is actually quite a
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 1: bit older because didn't she slow for a while?
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 2: Very different maybe big massive age gap.
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: So yeah, no, I mean Laris's has been sort of
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: a fixture of the tower for a very long time.
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Laris is like part of the institution, which I
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: guess makes her part of the problem, but like she's
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 2: one of the best parts of the institution because she
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 2: does have the ground rail road escape patch.
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah no, I would make her keepers, Yeah, I know
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: she can't general fine, make her keeper who cares? All right?
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: So enough about Larus. Let's go back to the tower.
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so Aguain does exactly half a day of work
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: and then is immediately summoned to Servilida. They literally think
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 2: that one afternoon of this new regime is going to
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 2: break her spirit. It's very silly.
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: Oh sorry, one more thing about Larus. She can move
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: softer on her feet than you would think. Clearly forsaken
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: in disguise, large woman moving softly on her feet, not
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: making noise. Land fear right, Demandrad and now Massana.
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 2: All three of them rejected, damn it, not letting you
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 2: have the trifecta.
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: Well, I've no head cannoning. Nissan was actually.
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 2: Laras Saana Larus.
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, La.
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 2: Mess Ass. I don't know, I don't I don't know
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 2: how to portmanteau this.
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: Lara Sauna I think works pretty well.
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 2: Larissana. It's a cool sounding name. Actually, yeah, maybe if
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: I ever read a fiction book, I'll use that as
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 2: a character name.
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: As someone who's evil but also loves to cook.
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 2: Basically, I would have to be evil cook like, not
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 2: with the food, evil with other things. The food is
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 2: actually good. Not a poisoner, just an epicurean who does
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 2: evil things.
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, I don't know. I've never seen him
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: in the same room at the same time, it's entirely
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: possible with gateways.
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 2: No, no, it's not.
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, that's just you broke me a little bit there.
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 2: Continuing with the plot of the book.
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: The plot, so, she is summoned to the after a
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: day of scrubbing and escaping and then not escaping. She
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: summoned to the amberline seat, told to go scrub up
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: because she's filthy, and she takes a nice long bath.
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 2: This one is actually very justified, unlike Elaine's endless bats.
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Alane, you didn't deserve that. And she thinks
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 2: about how she's going to deal with Alida, and she
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 2: figures silence, just like last time. But when she gets there,
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 2: it turns out just the Amberlin This is more like
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 2: a massive performance, jury, presentation, propaganda event in.
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: Front of everybody she's been trying to influence.
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is this is a showdown. This is a
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 2: big showdown. How this shakes out determines how their war
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 2: goes forward, and silence will not work. Agwayne realizes eventually
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 2: that silence is in fact not going to cut it.
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 2: She has to back up all her big talk with
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 2: these women individually with a public performance, and boy does
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 2: she rise to the occasion.
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah. This is this is the part of Sanderson that
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: I love, these moments that are just really exciting and gratifying.
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: When he takes all of the edging that Jordan has
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 1: done over the last eleven books and just smacks you
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 1: in the face with a really satisfying outcome. It's so good.
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 2: It's so satisfying. It's so like he brings together all
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 2: the characters, he brings together all the tension, he brings
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: together the setting like mm and then he just action
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 2: scene wam bam, thank you ma'am. It's amazing.
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think it starts. I don't know. I
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 1: want to I just want to read chunks of it,
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: you know, like I don't don't really feel like this
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 1: is a lot of analysis because it's just it's just
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: a GWayne insulting Alida for being a terrible, terrible leaders.
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 2: It's so good. Do you want to read it? You
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 2: want to just tear into so much?
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: Oh my god. The dinner wasn't about working with the
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: odd Jas. It was about bullying sisters into doing as
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: Alida felt they should and Agwayne was simply there to
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: be shown off. This was all about proving to the
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: others how much power Alida had. She could take someone
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: that otherwise that others had named Amerlin, put her in
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: an Auva's dress, and send her to penance every day.
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: So it's just, yeah, this moment where she's just basically
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: brought up all the important people in front of her
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 1: and is like, kiss my butt's that's what you're here for.
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: We're all going to sit around a room and sit
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 1: around the table, and you're going to tell me how
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 1: great I am.
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then and then she really Agwayne's trying to
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 2: hold her silence. And then Elida goes for one of
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 2: her few week spots when it comes to her control,
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 2: and that's the Sean chan and he demands that Agwaine
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 2: deny that the Shawan shanner a threat. And Agwaine's like,
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 2: all right, that's one gauntlet throw down too many. I'm
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 2: going to have to hand you your ass now.
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: You aren't gonna like this, No, you're not gonna like
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: this at all.
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 2: I am about. This is me taking out a can
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 2: of whoop bass and cracking it.
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: Because like Alida demands that she lies. She's like, tell
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: tell her you're lying, right, Like, tell her that this,
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: which is when Alida has done that before. She's actually
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: told people like you're lying because I don't believe the things.
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: Is I don't want to believe the things you're telling
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: me are true? Right?
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 2: And Alida only has bullying to back her up. Right,
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 2: There's this one paragraph from Aguain. There is often truth
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 2: and speculation. You locked the dragon reborn himself in a box.
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 2: You just threatened to do the same to me in
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 2: front of all these witnesses. People call him a tyrant,
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 2: but you are the one destroying our laws and ruling
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 2: by fear. Like you've thrown a lot of shade for
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 2: someone who is doing the things that you're accusing us
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 2: of doing. Right, it's one of those like you're telling
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 2: on yourself. Your accusations are telling on yourself far more
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: than they are telling on.
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 1: Us, And so you'll make me obey. Is this what
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 1: you will do to everyone in the tower? Alida and
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: I and Aja opposes you, and it is disbanded. Someone
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 1: displeases you and you try to destroy her right to
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 1: be an isid eye. You will have every sister bowing
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 1: down before you by the end of this nonsense. Oh
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: Agwayne asked, and have you told them about your idea
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 1: for a new oath sworn on the oath rod by
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: every sister, an oath to obey the ambulin and support her?
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 1: Deny it, deny that you made that statement. Will the
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 1: oaths let you? Alida froze. It was idle, it was
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 1: it was locker room talk, Alida said, just speculation, thoughts
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: spoken out loud. There is often truth in speculation. And
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 1: then that's the paragraph you're yeah, just such a good
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: there's so much and there's even more to that, Like,
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: there's her just digging into her paragraph after paragraph after paragraph.
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 1: Go ahead, use the power to silence me as an ambulance.
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: Shouldn't you be able to talk an opponent in a
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: new obedience rather than resulting to force police state? Out
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: of the corner of her eye, A gwainsaw a diminutive
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 1: your curity of the gray? Not at that comment, right,
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: she's winning, and then she goes to like wins over
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: the ajas one by one with her comments. She wins
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 1: over the shouldn't you be able to negotiate for the gray?
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 2: Like I don't have the other ones in front of me,
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 2: and then there's the great line, You're not answering me
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 2: but them. You're not answering me the person you don't
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 2: respect as Omberlin, even though I am. You are answering
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 2: to the sitters who are sitting at that table over there,
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 2: who are looking at the two of us wondering who
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 2: they would rather have as Omberlin. That's who you have
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 2: to be answering to. Again, Agwayne understands the underlying point
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 2: of the conversation, right, and.
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: Then she goes on the question like what are you
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 1: thinking trying to capture the dragon reborn stick them in
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: the basement, And she's like, I would have kept them
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 1: secure and locked up, and Guen goes, you idiot, look
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 1: at the prophecies. You couldn't stop the prophecies from happening,
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 1: and so you were doomed to fail by trying and
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: ignoring the things the prophecy said, by trying to prevent
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: the prophecies from happening, which is prevent him from you know,
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 1: as the plow and all that kind of crap, where
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 1: he's destroying lives and breaking bonds.
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 2: As the pile breaks, there shall he break the lives
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 2: of men?
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Yes, all that crap, all that poetic craps, you know,
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: all of that basically is never gonna It had to happen.
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: And if you were to capture him and stop that,
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: the pattern itself will break you. And that's what happened.
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 1: That's why your expeditions failed. That's why you were doomed
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 1: to fail from the beginning. And the fact that you
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: can't see that is why you're a terrible leader.
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 2: Right, and then we get the absolute banger, slap down, knockout,
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 2: amazing part. Elida says, enough of this, coward, Agwayne said.
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 2: Elida's eyes flowed wide. How dare you? I dare the truth?
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 2: Elida Agwaine said quietly, you are a coward and a tyrant.
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 2: I'd name you dark friend as well, but I suspect
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 2: that the Dark One would perhaps be embarrassed to associate
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 2: with you. Elias screeched, Yeah, that's a good line. That's
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 2: a good line.
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 1: It's like i'd call you a devil.
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 2: But the dark One doesn't even want you.
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 1: He'll manipulate you, he'll use you, but you're not one
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 1: of his. No one claims you as one of his.
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 2: He's not. He would not recruit you if you asked,
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 2: which like isn't really how the Dark One works, but
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 2: that's beside the point.
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: And then Alida goes fucking nuts and uses the One
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 1: Power as a weapon.
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 2: And she starts raving, like ranting and raving, and I
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 2: feel like we're seeing the Arid Hall really upper ghost
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 2: in her as close to being Arid Hall as she
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 2: ever is.
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: And this is one of those badass moments of a
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 1: GWayne where she is being beaten bloody to a pulp
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 1: and she just stands up and looks her straight in
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 1: the eyes and doesn't react. I mean that is that's
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: to me, that's a gives me chills moment, right, And
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't.
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 2: Believe it if she hadn't spent a month learning how
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 2: to not react to being strapped, right, even though I
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 2: don't like that whole arc, I wouldn't believe her capable
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 2: of just pushing through this pain without having had all
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 2: that practice. Like unfortunately, that does make this land more believably.
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the I just wish it wasn't spanking. I wish
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 1: it was just more general beatings.
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 2: But that I'm imagining it more like a beating and
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 2: less like a spanking, just to memory hole it correctly
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 2: for plot reasons, just I choose to believe.
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like the and I feel like this technicality around
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: spanking really is them getting around like, no, they're beating
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 1: her because they're not spanking her on her butt, they're
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: striping her from head to toe, right or no or no? No,
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: that's just avienda. Yeah, Scott, I'm sorry, I'm mixing up
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: the various groups of women.
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 2: Too many for discipline, Yeah, Tony.
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 1: Too many spankings, too many spankings.
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 2: But what we have seen her literally getting beaten like
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 2: basically bloody and then healed before many times, and she
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 2: has slowly progressed over time to the point of not reacting.
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 2: So it makes sense that in this moment of intensity,
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 2: as Elida needs to see that intense level of not
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 2: reacting like Agwayne has done the work for it. You know,
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 2: She's put in the hours to be able to just
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 2: stand there.
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: You know what this reminds me of. It reminds me
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 1: of when have you seen those videos where they put
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 1: people in the God I was gonna say.
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 2: Ovary machine like a period pain simulator.
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, period pain simulation. I told you my brain is
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: not doing words today. But yeah, and the and the
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 1: the guys are like, oh my god, they're in so
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: much pain. One like, yep, that's what it feels like.
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, see, I really want to try one of those,
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 2: because I don't believe those videos exactly. Yeah, don't videos
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: at all.
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 1: I'd like to see what that. I'm also am curious.
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 2: But because it's like, first of all, I'm pretty sure
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 2: I can recognize acting when I see it, and second
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 2: of all, I have PCOS, which is not the same
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 2: as normal quote unquote period. So I'm very curious how
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 2: that simulator would stuck up against my lived experience.
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: Same. That's I've been very curious to try it, even
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: though it's like, oh I want to get shocked, right,
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: but that's basically what yeah for science? Yeah yeah, but
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 1: it looks it looks fun anyway. That's but that's kind
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 1: of what it reminds me of is where she's just
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 1: like in pain. If someone else will be bending over
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 1: in pain, like unable to stand up, and she's just
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 1: tolerating it because she's been exposed to it over and
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 1: over and over again in her life.
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 2: Right right, Alida is applying an acute pain to someone
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 2: who's been dealing with that level of intensity chronically, like
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 2: it just it just doesn't hit the same as she's
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 2: expects it to.
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: And in the same way that like you can get
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 1: used to a buzzing you can get you I mean, right,
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 1: obviously you never really get used to chronic pain, right,
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 1: Like that's not but I feel like people, some people
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 1: learn to live with it, even though it takes more
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 1: energy to do so.
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, listening to people who deal with chronic pain talk
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 2: about how the pain scale makes no sense is very illuminating,
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 2: right right, but yeah, you can you can see that
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 2: playing out here with Agwayne. And also she's thinking like wow,
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 2: this does really hurt. But like you know, she's in
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 2: this heightened state of emotional intensity around the thing that
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 2: she's been building her tolerance for pain on. It makes
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 2: sense that she's able to just like, yeah, give Alida
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 2: that like dead pain because Alida says, look at her
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 2: for an example of what happens if you disobey me,
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 2: and Agwayne is just standing there like bitch, yeah, and
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 2: all those sitters are like, oh, we will be taking
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 2: her as an example.
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, you are.
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 2: Defeatable and you need to be defeated and we need
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 2: to figure this out.
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 1: Like right now, No, it's it's especially after that speech, right,
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 1: this whole there's nothing you can do to me? And
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 1: then yeah, the idea that there's nothing she can do
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 1: because the broken breaking the tower and the way she's
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 1: acting to keep the tower broken is more painful than
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 1: any beating again could take. And I also feel like
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 1: there's a little bit of in a world where you
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: can be healed, you can lose some emotional attachment to
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 1: wounds because you know you don't have to suffer through
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 1: the months or even weeks of pain and healing that
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 1: you get from those wounds. It's like I might have
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: to suffer for a few hours until they let me
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 1: be healed.
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 2: Right, you might even get disfigured or crippled, yeah, right, right, yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 2: that does change the calculus around the emotional parts of pain.
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 1: For sure, exactly exactly. And then and I feel like
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 1: that's something where you know, I've now because I worked
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 1: in kitchens, I've burned myself enough times that I understand
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 1: the difference between a burn that hurts and a burn
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: that's going to cause need some healing and cause a
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 1: scar and stuff like that, Right, And I feel very
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 1: know the pain is about the same. I feel very
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 1: differently about one than I do about the other. M hm,
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 1: because one I'm like, oh fuck right, I'm gonna be
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 1: a burn. That's gonna suck. I know. The scar was
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 1: the ones where I'm like, oh, that's hot, and then
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 2: Think about it again, right right, yeah, totally.
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 1: Anyway, I don't don't don't burn. Don't burn yourself that much.
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 1: You should.
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 2: Kitchens are dangerous.
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 1: Kitchens are really dangerous, especially professional ones. You're dumping a
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 1: lot of things in hot oil. Although I will say
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 1: I've probably hurt myself worse in a home kitchen just
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 1: because I don't know, there's something that you're distracted, you know.
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 1: I feel like the professional kitchen you're dialed in.
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 2: Well, that just depends on how your mental hygiene worked
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 2: in your kitchen.
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 1: What mental what? I don't know. It's just a trash
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: heap up here, or just we're stuff in emotions in
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 1: corners and they're just rotten with some you know, sprinkle
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 1: anxiety all over top of everything just kind of settles
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 1: on everything like a dust.
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 2: Even for me to do the readout, Please please, I
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 2: wish I weren't needed here. Elida Agwaine said softly. I
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 2: wish that the tower had a grand ombrelin in you.
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 2: I wish I could step down and accept your rule.
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 2: I wish you deserved it. I would willingly accept execution
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 2: if it would mean leaving a competent Omberlin. The White
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 2: Tower is more important than I am. Can you say
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 2: the same? You want execution? Alida bellowed, recovering her tongue. Well,
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 2: you shall not have it. Death is too good for you,
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 2: dark friend. I shall see you beaten. Everyone shall see
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 2: you beaten until I am through with you. Only then
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 2: will you die. She turns to the servants, who stood
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 2: gaping at the sides of the room. Send for soldiers.
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 2: I want this one cast into the deepest cell this
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 2: tower can provide. Let it be voiced through the city
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 2: that Aguayn Alvier is a dark friend who has rejected
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 2: the Omerlind's grace. Servants ran to do as she demanded.
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 2: The switches continued to beat, but a grain was growing numb.
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 2: She closed her eyes, feeling faint. She had lost much
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 2: blood from her left arm, which bore the deepest of
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 2: her gashes. It had come to a head, as she'd
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 2: feared it would. She had cast her lot, but she
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 2: didn't fear for her life. Instead, she feared for the
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 2: White Tower. As she leaned back against the wall, thoughts fading,
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 2: she was overcome with sorrow. Her battle from within the
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 2: tower was at an end. One way or another. Holy
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 2: bystander effect Batman, A room full of sitters couldn't stop
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 2: the Omerlin from beating her to unconsciousness.
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 1: Nope. Well, especially when the person has power, that's when
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 1: they're really hard to stop.
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 2: It is twelve on one mm hmmmm.
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 1: Would you want to be the first one because then
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 1: she's gonna remember you.
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 2: No, but you're a fucking sitter. I don't care what
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 2: you want. As an individual, you have you were required.
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 1: To use it. With great power comes great cowardice.
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 2: We invested power in you through a pyramid shaped structure.
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 2: I expect you to be pointy. Uh So, Yeah, that's
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 2: an intense chapter action sequence, but almost entirely with words.
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 2: Brandon Sanderson did a fantastic job just painting that scene
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 2: and letting the fireworks roll and uh.
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and really letting the accumulation of everything that Jordan
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 1: set up to come together in that moment and have
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 1: this fiery moment of defiance that really moves the plot
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 1: forward and is satisfying to read.
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 2: It's so satisfying, so good.
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we were going to do the next chapter two?
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 1: Do you want to still still do that? Today? It is?
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 2: What how hard it is to get people through gateways
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 2: and floor beans in not that order goes floor beans,
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 2: and then how hard it is to get people through gateways?
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 2: What were we doing next week? Were we trying to
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 2: do a triple next week too?
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 1: I think if we added this one to it?
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 2: No, do we already have it scheduled to be a triple?
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 1: No? I don't think so. I think it's just double
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 1: next week.
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 2: Go check because we did some shenanigans on our calendar.
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a double next week all right? Then?
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we should call it there, and yeah,
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 2: slop this one on to next week because there's so
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 2: little in this next chapter. But we have gone for
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 2: two hours and twenty minutes, even with the tangents I'm
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 2: going to take out and that's a chonk ass chapter.
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 1: Sounds good to me. All right, Well, thank you very
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 1: much everybody. We should probably do Patreon soon. We've gotten
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 1: a few new ones.
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 2: I think so, oh, probably probably some.
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 3: Thanks relatively soon than that, I can't think of anything
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 3: else to touch on. Hopefully life will be a little
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 3: more stable near future for me, so I'm excited for that.
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say consider joining my support group on
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 2: Thursdays for fans of the Wheel of Time who are
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 2: also neurodivergent. Try to find something in your local community
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 2: to contribute to to deal with the creeping existential dread,
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 2: and hug your loved ones because meat suits are dumb.
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 2: Other than that, support us on Patreon, drink water and
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 2: patry dog and are.
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 1: You gonna ever realm of the Elderlings.
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 2: I downloaded it. Hmm, excellent creeping towards towards it, But
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 2: I have not been able to really take much new
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 2: information unless it's horrible history about fascism. That's really the
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 2: only new content I can listen to. It's either that
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 2: or books I've read before, Like.
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 1: Well, that's the great thing about the concept. You don't
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 1: really have to do much research or prereading.
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll see. I did download it pretty sure. I
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 2: looked at it a lot thought about downloading it. Did
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 2: I download it? I don't know, That's how my brain is.
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 2: Did I think about it or did. I actually too it.
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 1: So, and that's why I'm saying, because I'm relatively serious
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 1: about like doing something with that cool. Yeah, Well, because
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 1: I think we're gonna plow through this pretty quickly.
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 2: Like we got through three chapters today quickly.
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, still two.
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 2: We got a lot out of this.
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we got a lot out there was reading it.
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 1: There was more in these two chapters than I thought
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 1: there would be, And so I ended up being like, yeah,
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 1: three is probably a stretch that was probably overally ambitious
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 1: of us.
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 2: But like literally this upcoming chapter is there's nothing.
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 1: Oh it's nothing. Yeah, it's nothing. So I'm just I'm
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 1: hoping that like maybe the next three chapter, we'll just
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 1: do a three chapter next one, or we'll just keep
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 1: doing two chapters and or we'll just do a single
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 1: chapter at some point and just you know, that'll be
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 1: a short episode. We'll figure it out.
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 2: All I know is that flour Beans does not deserve
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 2: a whole episode, and it's not getting one.
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 1: I think that's where we should end it.
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 2: That's the life regarding on all right, Thank you everyone, goodbye.
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we both have a lot going on in our
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 1: personal lives right now. I mean mine's starting to settle
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 1: down a little bit. Like the puppy that I got
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 1: is starting to, you know, not be a new puppy,
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 1: but a puppy who's been here for a few weeks.
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 1: We're settling into the new house. I'm starting to put
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 1: things away so I know where it is. Oh, some
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 1: of you haven't seen. Yes, So for those of you
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 1: who haven't heard the story, Travis got this puppy from
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 1: his neighbor who just threw it out on the streaks.
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 1: They did not want it anymore. We tracked down its
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 1: original owners and officially, which was not the people who
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 1: had it at the time. Basically, they didn't want him anymore.
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 1: They'd lost him a long time ago, and he'd ended
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 1: up with the people he was with, and so yeah,
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 1: he didn't have a home, so he ended up with us.
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 1: And he is a bit of a terror because he
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 1: is a eight month old puppy who has been terribly,
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 1: terribly trained.
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 2: Oh you should tell the story about what he did
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 2: today or the other day.
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 1: Uh, because he does so much.
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 2: You're gonna have to what no, with the with finding
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 2: the temper tore.
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, okay, that's right. That's why the one
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 1: I just told you about that story. Yeah, So, as
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm moving, and so moving with a brand
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 1: new puppies is a little hard. But one of the
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 1: things I'm doing is, you know, I was basically out
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 1: of the place, and I had to go back one
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 1: more time to do sort of an empty out of
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 1: the trash, right, the trash that had basically, you know,
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 1: a pile of some carpet padding and a few other
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 1: like some some plastic junk that I had in a
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 1: pile in one of the bedrooms that I just need
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 1: to get rid of. And so the dog's wandering around
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 1: the empty apartment and I'm gathering all this stuff up.
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 1: I forget I'm doing, so I'm scrubbing something or cleaning something,
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 1: and he walks over to the pile of trash, sniffs
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 1: around in there, and pulls something out of it. And
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 1: that thing was actually a crocheded version of timber that
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 1: Abigail made for me. I don't know if you remember.
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 1: This is back one of the original spoiler cons. She
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 1: made a crocheted version of timber and a crocheyed version
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 1: of me, and that's been sitting on my desk this
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 1: whole time, and just in the move out it must
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 1: have fallen off, it must have fallen into the padding,
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 1: and just you know, sadly, unfortunately, sometimes I I lose
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 1: things when I'm moving, And yeah, I thought this would
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 1: have been thrown out. It was. It was in a
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 1: pile of trash. And and Harvey, my new dog, went
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 1: in and pulled out the stuffy of timber and handed
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 1: it to me like he was like that you forgot this,
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 1: like you need to have this, And I was like,
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 1: such a good Okay, that's that's adorable. I burst in
• 1:51:20
  Speaker 1: two tears, like no joke, Like I was sobbing by
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 1: myself in my apartment holding onto that little figurine of timber.
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 2: And Harvey's just like, Dad, this smells like you. I
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 2: don't think you want to get that.
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, He's like, this is you don't want to get
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 1: rid of this. This is this is something significant.
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 2: So he's not only a very good boy, he's the
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 2: very best boy.
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So he won my heart pretty quickly. He's a
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 1: snuggle bug, he does. He's got some nipping behavior that
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 1: like puppies should normally at this sage, be grown out of.
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 1: And he's not potty trained as much potty trained as
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 1: he should be at this sage. But again, it's just like,
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 1: you know, he's young enough, we can still learn. He
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 1: looks like, yeah, he's got big paws. He looks like
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 1: he's gonna be really, but he's fifty pounds right now.
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 1: And I've been weighing and we've had him long enough
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 1: that I'm charting his growth and I think he's going
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 1: to top out it about seventy five pounds. Now watch
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 1: me eat my words when he's one hundred and fifty
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 1: pounds that yeah, yeah, but he is, you know. And
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 1: the thing is, I tracked down his original owners and
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 1: he was adopted from the Organ Humane Society, so I
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 1: have his original adoption papers which include his original birth date,
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 1: so I know exactly how old he is, right, so
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 1: he is just over eight months old, and so at
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 1: fifty pounds at eight months old, when you put that
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 1: into all the calculators that you know, look at dog
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 1: weight and based on breed, and they say seventy five
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 1: to eighty pounds max. And honestly, he's only gained like
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 1: I've had him now for gosh geez, almost a month
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 1: and he's only gained two or three pounds. So it's
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 1: really it appears that his growth is slowing down. He
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 1: just has giant paws and a long ass tail. I
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 1: think he's just gonna look a little goofy.
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 2: He's just a big lanky boy.
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 1: He's just a big lanky boy. Yeah, he's he's he's long.
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 1: So we'll we'll see, you know, Like I said, replay
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 1: this in like six months when he is a giant,
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 1: giant dog that is absolutely terrorizing me. But no, but
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 1: he's a oh my god, he is the snugliest dog.
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 1: He absolutely loves snuggles, loves belly rubs, will flop on
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 1: his back for for belly rubs pretty much all the time.
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 1: Uh yeah, And I'm just getting to know him. I'm
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 1: getting no his personality, you know, he's I don't know
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 1: if you've heard the three day, three week, three month
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 1: rule with dogs.
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 2: You told me about it last time, but that was
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 2: the first time I'd ever heard about it.
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 1: But yeah, so it's like basically three days. They're still terrified.
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 1: They don't know if this is the place where they're
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 1: you know, they're getting to know, like this is a
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 1: place I'm going to be in the future, right as
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 1: opposed to getting moved around, and then they need three
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 1: weeks to sort of accommodate themselves to routine, and then
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 1: three months before their personality really shows up. And so
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 1: those are all pretty big milestones in terms of when
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 1: you're gonna see behavioral changes in a new dog.
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 2: Well, I forward to meeting him, Yes.
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 1: And I've seen that. And then you know, the first
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 1: three days he was a terror. And now after about
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 1: three weeks he's starting to like settle in a little bit,
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 1: get into the routine. He's not having accidents inside anymore
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 1: because he's figured out when he's going potty and all
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. So and then, and those are
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 1: obviously very very rough estimates.
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 2: Right, every personnel personal dog is gonna be different.
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 1: But yeah, so love him. He's a cute boy. You
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 1: will probably hear more about him in the future. He's
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 1: not as local as Timber was, for sure, but he
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 1: can complain a little bit when you say no to him.
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 1: He's the only time you can like train, train and
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 1: train him. But if you want something you say no,
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 1: he goes, oh wow, so very cute.
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 2: Well, I look forward to having him down here to
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 2: run around to my property. Hopefully he won't be quite
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 2: as allergic to the grass.
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he doesn't seem to have the same skin allergies.
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 1: Although I'm more allergic to him than I was to Timber,
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 1: I'm finding that I'm actually having some reactions to him,
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 1: which is as unfortunate, but most just skin reactions. So
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 1: I can wear a shirt.
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 2: Right, life, it's uncomfortable. Bodies are stupid.
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 1: We're talking about how much it sucks that we have to,
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 1: you know, pilot, these meat machines that hurt and don't
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 1: function well. Yeah, design my ass.
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 2: They're prone to breakage and failure in all sorts of
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 2: fun ways. And yeah, it's great, it's great. I mean,
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, we're not even getting into all the fucking
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 2: coushit that is happening, and these crumbling Empire States of
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 2: America Incorporated not even getting into that. But it's coup time.
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 2: We're not making it to our two hundred and fiftieth birthday.
• 1:55:48
  Speaker 2: We're just gonna face plant.
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 1: I'm struggling to know how serious to take this. Honestly,
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, I take it seriously, but serious isn't the
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 1: right word. I'm struggling with my words today. I can
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 1: like I'm sayings that don't mean exactly what I want them.
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 1: To say, you know, so much of his movement is
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 1: noise and sound designed to distract you from what he's
• 1:56:09
  Speaker 1: actually doing. I get very frustrated with knowing what to
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 1: pay attention to. It's hard to know what to pay
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 1: attention to. And the coup seems to be a big deal.
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 1: But then, like so many of the things he does,
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 1: are put out there to distract you and then pulled
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 1: back immediately the second they find any sort of resistance,
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 1: so that then his more or slightly less outlandish things
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 1: can go through. Does that make sense. It's the gish
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 1: gallop of bullshit.
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 2: Yes, it's called flooding the zone. Steve Bannon was very
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 2: clear that that was what they were going to do.
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 2: It's all been laid out in pains.
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 1: It's incredibly effect and it's incredibly and looked.
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 2: At, and everyone knows exactly what their fucking playbook is.
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 2: And Elon Musk is kind of the thing that seems
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 2: like more of a sue of pay attention shot because
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 2: he's not literally demented. He's just evil.
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and athlon is thank you. That's that's a boostering
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 1: statement that the courts are serving as an effective bulwark.
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 2: Right, It only works if they obeyed the courts, which
• 1:57:08
  Speaker 2: they fucking aren't.
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 2: That's the problem is we have clowns with fire hose,
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 2: fire throwers, flame throwers just running around and everyone's like, well,
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 2: that's not allowed. It doesn't fucking matter what's allowed. They
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 2: are doing it anyway. They let one fucking security guard
• 1:57:25
  Speaker 2: keep them out of that one build. It's I just
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 2: like one side is continuing to go by decorum and
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 2: the other side is stuffing their pockets and shitting on everything.
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 2: It's like, I don't even fucking I can't even pay
• 1:57:38
  Speaker 2: attention to what Trump is doing because a fucking elon
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 2: and his fucking teenage, fucking hitler youth posse just taking
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 2: all them all. They just okay, we're is this is fine? Yeah,
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 2: the courts. They don't care what the courts are doing.
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 2: They don't care what the courts say.
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 1: All right, that's enough politics on this podcast. I'm frustrated
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 1: with it, but I don't have anything useful to say.
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 2: Pharmacy culture is leading to the end of the world.
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 1: I agree with that.
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 2: Rate, Yeah, fucking great, let's distract ourselves with the world.
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 2: White man from the South YEP, thank you for listening
• 1:58:16
  Speaker 2: to the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast. Please rate and
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 2: review us on your podcast app, and consider supporting us
• 1:58:22
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• 1:58:27
  Speaker 2: production of Fox and Raven Media. For more podcasts from
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 2: Fox and Raven Media, visit our website at Foxendravenmedia dot
• 1:58:34
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