Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / Be A Courageous Mom | a conversation with Terra Mattson

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Be A Courageous Mom | a conversation with Terra Mattson · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

0:05
SPEAKER_00: My name is Amy Wicks, and I love to talk about the gospel message your heart was created to hear.
0:11
SPEAKER_00: All things Enneagram and helping you be confident that you are the best mom for your kids.
0:18
SPEAKER_00: I'm a mountain mama who somehow ended up on a cul-de-sac in the Medwest.
0:22
SPEAKER_00: I was alone and without family or community.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: But the Lord, He didn't let me stay there.
0:28
SPEAKER_00: He helped me turn my broken-hearted moment into a wholehearted decision to get intentional with my faith, my marriage, and my kids.
0:37
SPEAKER_00: I share broken-hearted perspective with story, but with wholehearted purpose and plans so you can live a life full of confidence and abundance.
0:46
SPEAKER_00: Think of this podcast as your on-the-go mom pal, mixed with a little bit of Enneagram coaching.
0:52
SPEAKER_00: So get to that pile of laundry or hit the treadmill or load up the kids in the car for that grocery run.
0:58
SPEAKER_00: And be ready to be encouraged and challenged while you listen.
1:02
SPEAKER_00: This is the Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
1:10
SPEAKER_00: So, how do you teach your children to have wholehearted confidence?
1:14
SPEAKER_00: Well, it's time to toss off the superhero cape and to dive into the corners of your story so your kids can have the legacy that you desire.
1:24
SPEAKER_00: Tara Matson's book, Courageous, Being Daughters Rooted in Grace, is for those of us who are investing into the next generation of women.
1:33
SPEAKER_00: You are a leader in your home and in your community.
1:37
SPEAKER_00: And you need to first understand your identity so that you can model what it looks like to be a woman and appreciate God's design for womanhood.
1:46
SPEAKER_00: Motherhood is one of the most vulnerable roles we will ever hold.
1:50
SPEAKER_00: I hope you'll take a listen to the encouraging words of counselor and author Tara and what she is sharing with us today.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: Now, I don't know about you, but for me, these last few months have seemed longer than normal.
2:04
SPEAKER_00: Yet I also cannot get over the fact that we are well into the month of May and that summer is just around the corner.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: With these last few months of school done at home, do you need your summer to look different than your school year?
2:18
SPEAKER_00: Is your entertainment, camps, and playmates going to be limited these summer months?
2:23
SPEAKER_00: And perhaps are you dreading the no-schedule long days, sibling fighting boredom, constantly eating in crazy messy house all summer long?
2:30
SPEAKER_00: Never fear, because I have a Simply Summer plan for you to put into action for the unplugged and purposeful moments that you desire to have with your kids.
2:41
SPEAKER_00: The Simply Summer video guide series walks you through the five-step planning process that I have personally used for the last 11 summers.
2:49
SPEAKER_00: I help you break down the next three months so you can help your kids form lifelong habits while getting more done for you.
2:56
SPEAKER_00: I've created and shared all the colorful and easy-to-use templates that are ready to print or customize for your needs.
3:03
SPEAKER_00: In short, the Simply Summer Self-Paced Video Series guides you through determining what your kids want to do, what you want your kids to do, and what they need to do, and then create a system of rewards that connect your family in meaningful ways.
3:19
SPEAKER_00: So instead of counting down the minutes until next school year, you can make the minutes count with your kids this summer.
3:25
SPEAKER_00: Check out the show notes for more information, or go to simply wholehearted.com and you'll see all the information there on the homepage.
3:32
SPEAKER_00: Now, let's jump right into this conversation with Tara Madsen.
3:43
SPEAKER_00: Yay! Okay, well tell me a little bit about yourself, where you live.
3:47
SPEAKER_00: I know Gianna Munsinger, her her company works with you, right?
3:51
SPEAKER_00: Do I have that right?
3:52
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I love her.
3:53
SPEAKER_00: I actually had her on the podcast maybe two years ago just to talk about the book process because people don't know what goes into a book.
4:02
SPEAKER_00: It's hard, really hard.
4:05
SPEAKER_01: Honestly, I had no clue.
4:07
SPEAKER_01: I had no clue.
4:09
SPEAKER_01: It's so like raising children.
4:10
SPEAKER_01: You just don't know until you do it.
4:12
SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
4:12
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
4:14
SPEAKER_01: There's so much more into it.
4:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
4:16
SPEAKER_01: So we um we live in outside of Portland, Oregon.
4:19
SPEAKER_01: Oh.
4:20
SPEAKER_01: And so we are in a very, it's gorgeous area.
4:23
SPEAKER_01: We live on five acres and we run a lot and retreat as part of our living whole-hearted um work that we do.
4:28
SPEAKER_01: So we pull people out and do a lot of contemplative retreats or marriage retreats and organizational teams.
4:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, but uh it's definitely an we get the vibe.
4:40
SPEAKER_01: I think East Coast and West Coast, we get the first of all of the controversies.
4:44
SPEAKER_01: And so that's a lot of work that I'm speaking to.
4:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:48
SPEAKER_01: And then I know it slowly trickles into the heart of the Midwest and the South, but we're in, I mean, Oregon's just all kinds of stuff.
4:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I can kind of get away with being an ostrich sometimes, which is how I prefer to be.
5:03
SPEAKER_00: I just put my head in the sand and I would tell me like everything else is going okay.
5:07
SPEAKER_00: And totally that.
5:11
SPEAKER_01: I mean I could do that, but it's uh I think that's part of the honestly.
5:18
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm I'm accepting part of the call, but I I don't like controversy.
5:22
SPEAKER_01: I don't like conflict, and yeah, I tend to be a wave maker.
5:25
SPEAKER_01: Like a I'm always like asking hard questions, and maybe that's just playing years and years in the counseling world.
5:32
SPEAKER_01: I've seen so much behind the scenes.
5:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
5:35
SPEAKER_01: And so yeah, I feel like it's been a privilege and God's opened my eyes to a lot that I um I think I have great compassion for and understanding.
5:44
SPEAKER_01: So that's part of where we're headed.
5:47
SPEAKER_01: And so I have to be okay with not having my head in the sand.
5:50
SPEAKER_01: But I will say I don't watch the news on purpose.
5:53
SPEAKER_01: I bet so there's just a lot of things I do to keep myself sane.
5:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
6:00
SPEAKER_00: Yep, no, I'm with you on that for sure.
6:02
SPEAKER_00: Well, well, then I would love to know more about living wholehearted.
6:07
SPEAKER_00: I'm intrigued.
6:08
SPEAKER_00: I didn't realize there is a whole experience that you guys offer.
6:13
SPEAKER_00: So I I mean, one of the questions that I tend to ask a lot of people, because to me, living wholehearted usually is birthed from a brokenhearted moment, right?
6:22
SPEAKER_00: As a counselor, you see this over and over again.
6:25
SPEAKER_00: And we do choose one of two things.
6:27
SPEAKER_00: We choose to spiral downward and further away from the Lord, or we use that brokenhearted moment to draw us closer to Him.
6:36
SPEAKER_00: So, for you, what is the thing that birthed this ministry and and just your whole vision that you and your husband carry out on a regular basis?
6:46
SPEAKER_00: It sounds incredible.
6:47
SPEAKER_01: Well, living whole-hearted uh really just is something that we didn't really overtly plan.
6:54
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, uh we get people asking us, you know, what was your business plan?
6:58
SPEAKER_01: How did you guys get here?
6:59
SPEAKER_01: And honestly, it's been a response one step at a time to what God has been leading, and now it's become a thing.
7:05
SPEAKER_01: Like it we have so many pieces that God has birthed.
7:09
SPEAKER_01: And so personally, um, I had a strong call to ministry.
7:15
SPEAKER_01: Um, and my husband and I have both been in leadership and full-time ministry, but uh we both also understand the brokenness of our humanity.
7:23
SPEAKER_01: And I just remember living a dual life, you know, being able to perform for everyone around me, but I was struggling with an eating disorder on the inside.
7:30
SPEAKER_01: Not on the inside, I was struggling, but on the inside, just that disconnect from what people saw.
7:36
SPEAKER_01: And I remember my process of healing, and I thought counselors were weird.
7:42
SPEAKER_01: So I did not want to do counseling, but it was one of those things that everybody kept saying, you should be a counselor.
7:47
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, God gave me things that I needed to listen to.
7:51
SPEAKER_01: So went into training for that while I was into church ministry, and God continued to show me so much of the hurt and the pain within the church.
7:59
SPEAKER_01: Often we do the us and them.
8:02
SPEAKER_01: We're like, well, when they get to know Jesus.
8:04
SPEAKER_01: And I just was really hurting for those of us who know Jesus, but just have a lot of legacy of just fallen, broken um family patterns and addictions and mental health.
8:18
SPEAKER_01: And so I wanted to learn more.
8:20
SPEAKER_01: And I ended up uh just passionate about marriage.
8:22
SPEAKER_01: My husband and I do a lot of marriage work.
8:24
SPEAKER_01: We were trained and uh mentored by less and less a parrot who are big in marriage.
8:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:30
SPEAKER_01: So we thought we were gonna go down that road, which we still do a lot of marriage work.
8:34
SPEAKER_01: But when I was in the counseling work for the last 15 years, I cannot tell you.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: I mean, the trauma and abuse that I sat with, and majority of my clients are are high-functioning, high capacity leaders in the church.
8:47
SPEAKER_01: And so just um Living Whole-Harted really was birthed out of a place for leaders.
8:53
SPEAKER_01: And we really define a leader as anybody who has a following.
8:56
SPEAKER_01: So we believe moms, we're leaders, and really trying to equip us with the confidence of and the impact we have is our little ones are watching us, just like we're watching the pastor on Sunday morning, or we're watching, you know, our leaders in our country.
9:12
SPEAKER_01: There's so much impact that we have.
9:15
SPEAKER_01: And when a leader falls, we've just seen so much of the wake of that devastation.
9:20
SPEAKER_01: And so for sure, we're committed to helping all of us.
9:23
SPEAKER_01: And Jeff and I kind of hold us accountable, actually, the work we do.
9:27
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
9:28
SPEAKER_01: We can't keep telling people to live with integrity and shrink that gap if we're not doing it ourselves.
9:33
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, when I go help a couple and I'm teaching them communication, then I come home and yell at Jeff, it just doesn't work.
9:38
SPEAKER_00: So the Holy Spirit convicts me quickly.
9:43
SPEAKER_00: Yes, no, it's the truth because as I pour into moms, not only in my local church, but through this podcast and online coaching and provide resources, I am constantly convicted that I better be doing this really well in my own home.
10:00
SPEAKER_00: And I think I I wrote a word down that you said, and the word was response.
10:06
SPEAKER_00: I think that is the beauty of wholeheartedness is the response to what the Lord has done in and for us.
10:14
SPEAKER_00: And I would hope that wholeheartedness is almost we can't help but respond in that way because of what has been done and the kindness shown towards us.
10:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and we we can't give away what we haven't received.
10:29
SPEAKER_01: And so often we know God's love intellectually, but you know, that wholehearted response is all of who we are.
10:37
SPEAKER_01: That scripture, uh scriptural understanding of wholehearted, what the Hebrews understood was that when they mentioned heart or wholehearted, they meant mind, body, heart, gut.
10:47
SPEAKER_01: Yes, it was all of who we are, and so the compartmentalizing that we do uh to hide or to protect, you know, how people see us, it's human, it's very human.
10:58
SPEAKER_01: And so um there's grace for that, and yet there's freedom when we can just to say, wow, when I come to God with all of myself and he's kind and he's not shaming me.
11:09
SPEAKER_01: Right.
11:10
SPEAKER_01: In fact, he loves me, delights in me, despite um all those places that I I feel disappointed in.
11:18
SPEAKER_01: Um and we get to keep starting right where we're at.
11:21
SPEAKER_01: So, yes, I love that word wholehearted, and it just is that image of bringing all of who we are in response to his kindness.
11:29
SPEAKER_00: One of the revelations that I had uh 18 months ago-ish, and this leads me to my Enneagram question because for me, I had started simply wholehearted and then began my coaching journey to understand the Enneagram for others.
11:47
SPEAKER_00: And you brought up that point of it had already been love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, strength.
11:54
SPEAKER_00: But then I saw how, oh, the Enneagram articulates why we think and respond in all these different ways, but then also how to do all of them in a better way simultaneously.
12:08
SPEAKER_00: So I I love that I already knew ahead of time that you are familiar with the Enneagram and you're you're learning how to incorporate it.
12:17
SPEAKER_00: So tell me a little bit about your Enneagram journey and how it has helped you, maybe personally or even in your practice.
12:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, we Enneagram is like a second language right now for everybody.
12:30
SPEAKER_01: And so I kind of in response to my clients and in our culture around us, I have done into the Enneagram.
12:38
SPEAKER_01: Um, we have it have had a spiritual director on our staff for years, and she's just passionate about the Enneagram.
12:45
SPEAKER_01: That's we also use another assessment called the Core Values Index, and so we use them in pair quite often.
12:50
SPEAKER_01: So good.
12:51
SPEAKER_01: Um I don't talk about Enneagram very much in our books or in Courageous Girls, but I really value the spiritual formation piece of it and helping us understand um, you know, the deepest longings uh that we have definitely our sin natures and our anxiety bins.
13:11
SPEAKER_01: Right.
13:11
SPEAKER_01: So for me, um I I really do um I tend to long to innovate all the time uh and to solve problems.
13:24
SPEAKER_01: And I'm a half and half, I think I'm half six and half seven, sometimes I'm a six with a seven wing.
13:30
SPEAKER_01: Okay, sometimes I'm a seven with a six wing.
13:33
SPEAKER_01: It just depends.
13:34
SPEAKER_01: And I think that was confusing for me.
13:35
SPEAKER_01: It's because I love spontaneity and yet I'm I I'm not a warrior, but I definitely care deeply for the concerns of the world and hence how we living whole-hearted and courageous girls and all these things have been birthed.
13:49
SPEAKER_01: But for me, um, I just love these tools because they do help give us insight to God's creative design.
13:57
SPEAKER_01: And the more we can just accept um our limitations as well as our strengths, the more freedom and more wholehearted we can be, right?
14:04
SPEAKER_00: It's so true, so true.
14:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think you even you even bring up an interesting point in that for you, as self-aware as you are and how you help other people become self-aware, it's a it's a deep dive, it's a journey.
14:20
SPEAKER_00: And I know that I have missed myself twice.
14:25
SPEAKER_00: I didn't have a personal Enneagram coach.
14:28
SPEAKER_00: I I had friends to talk about it and of course the lure to dialogue, you know, how am I wired?
14:34
SPEAKER_00: How did you make me?
14:35
SPEAKER_00: What's my strength?
14:36
SPEAKER_00: What's my weakness?
14:37
SPEAKER_00: But it's it's a process, and I think that even though we think we're really self-aware, it takes time.
14:44
SPEAKER_00: And I think for most people, there isn't an instantaneous answer of, oh, this is for sure how I lead, especially because we hold all nine types and we have such interesting experiences that inform our personality and that mold and shape it so uniquely to us.
15:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I would say, as a clinician, trauma does shade a bit of our Enneagram and our inability to see who we are.
15:11
SPEAKER_00: That's the truth.
15:12
SPEAKER_01: So the layers there can be um can be so confusing for people.
15:18
SPEAKER_01: So what you're saying kind of translates for me um that we need others to help us in this journey and to give feedback.
15:26
SPEAKER_01: I always call it our my team.
15:28
SPEAKER_01: Who are your five on your team who keep reminding you who you are?
15:32
SPEAKER_01: Maybe they don't tell you, you're not officially supposed to tell people their Enneagram numbers.
15:37
SPEAKER_01: Spiritual directors and the mystics get really upset about that.
15:40
SPEAKER_01: But um, but in terms of knowing in community, having that coach, or um, again, our like with our courageous girls groups, um, having a community of people that really know you and can join that journey with you and keep affirming who you are again and again and again.
15:57
SPEAKER_01: And I think eventually we start to believe it over time and consistency.
16:02
SPEAKER_01: But it's hard.
16:03
SPEAKER_01: And and our trauma and our stories do confuse us a lot.
16:07
SPEAKER_01: Uh so when we're trying to do it on our own, it's we're we're limited.
16:10
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
16:11
SPEAKER_00: And I would definitely testify to that case of for me, it was when the Lord really peeled back another layer to that onion that I had understanding and revelation and was like, oh, but I also, it's the kindness of the Lord.
16:25
SPEAKER_00: I wasn't, I don't think I could have faced understanding that fully.
16:28
SPEAKER_00: And I can see why the spiritual spiritual directors get all antsy about how we just, you know, declare our type from the mountaintop and buy the t-shirt and the hat and all that sort of stuff.
16:39
SPEAKER_00: But but it does add for great conversation because there was a little bit when I discovered, oh, I I don't think I understood fully.
16:46
SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh man, all the people that I've told, I've got to untell them.
16:51
SPEAKER_00: But it has just been part of my journey.
16:53
SPEAKER_00: And even, you know, just going, hey, this is you got to be willing to laugh at yourself and to realize you may not land perfectly, you know, right on it because uh for me, how I made decisions, I I didn't realize it.
17:06
SPEAKER_00: I didn't have that understanding, that revelation yet.
17:09
SPEAKER_00: And and now that I do, I get to experience what it is that everyone else is experiencing of that, oh, the aha moment for kind of the first time in a new way that I'm like, oh yeah, I'm with you.
17:22
SPEAKER_00: I want everyone to have that.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: I know what that's like now.
17:25
SPEAKER_01: So exciting, Amy.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: I love it, and it's so true.
17:28
SPEAKER_01: And honestly, moms, we we kind of arrive there later.
17:31
SPEAKER_01: Well, we don't kind of we do often because we put ourselves on the back burner.
17:35
SPEAKER_01: So true.
17:36
SPEAKER_01: And so I love what you're doing and my passion again for helping moms and the in the book, Courageous and Courageous Girls, particularly, is that our kiddos will benefit when we understand more of who we are and God's design for us, and then we can see who they are and appreciate the variety and the diversity of God's body rather than um I think a flip of how we think of if I put my kids first, you know, it actually backfires in the long run.
18:05
SPEAKER_01: Kids end up not knowing who they are, mom doesn't know who she is.
18:09
SPEAKER_01: So when we model that, it's profound.
18:11
SPEAKER_00: It really is.
18:12
SPEAKER_00: It really is.
18:13
SPEAKER_00: So I I kind of told you ahead of time I was prepping for my mom script that meets every week.
18:19
SPEAKER_00: And one of the topics that we recently covered was identity.
18:22
SPEAKER_00: And I love that your work and your ministry really speaks to this.
18:27
SPEAKER_00: So tell us a little bit about Courageous Girls and and the new book and just the ministry that's coming through that.
18:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, again, and this was birth, really.
18:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, even though I'm a marriage and family therapist, I have two girls.
18:42
SPEAKER_01: And I uh was just living a day-to-day life with my girls and going, oh my goodness, this is such a hard world.
18:50
SPEAKER_01: And honestly, I was afraid.
18:52
SPEAKER_01: And so in my prayer and my um kind of thinking about what I was doing with my clients and with moms in my office and with girls, I thought, you know what, I'm just gonna apply those things with my own girls.
19:03
SPEAKER_01: So I asked a few moms and I said, would you like to walk with me once a month and let's just um let's just really walk with our girls intentionally and talk about all the issues.
19:14
SPEAKER_01: And so by the end of this, they're gonna know who they are, they're gonna know who their God is, and they're gonna be courageous in the world.
19:20
SPEAKER_01: So that was my thinking.
19:22
SPEAKER_01: And uh and so every month I had to write this curriculum.
19:25
SPEAKER_01: And so now we have hundreds of we seriously have hundreds of lessons, and it is boomed.
19:30
SPEAKER_01: It's all over the world now, and I am just again blown away by when you respond to the promptings, even if it came out of fear for me, yeah.
19:39
SPEAKER_01: He brought it to the Lord, and he had turned that into something that now is equipping other moms with their fear of like my own junk might infuse into my kids, the world is scary.
19:51
SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's just lots of things.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, but we're working on identity in how God sees us.
19:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't want girls who are good girls, I want girls who know they are loved.
20:03
SPEAKER_01: Uh, there's a big difference.
20:04
SPEAKER_01: Huge difference.
20:05
SPEAKER_01: Know that you're loved, and you can love others.
20:07
SPEAKER_01: You don't, you're not gonna be a mean girl.
20:09
SPEAKER_01: Or when you're a mean girl, you're gonna own it and you're gonna ask forgiveness.
20:13
SPEAKER_01: Um, I want to raise girls who know how to move through conflict.
20:17
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's so vital in our marriages, it's vital in our friendships.
20:20
SPEAKER_01: I want to raise girls who know and appreciate what it means to be a woman.
20:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, we've lost sight of gender, we've lost sight of appreciating God's design there.
20:30
SPEAKER_01: And so there were just all these lessons, everything down to like, you know, the changes that happen in a girl's body.
20:36
SPEAKER_01: Most of us moms don't talk to our girls overtly about all of those things.
20:40
SPEAKER_01: And so I kind of just gave a guide to say, here's what the word says, here's what we do in clinical worlds, and and marrying the two.
20:48
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I really believe that when we know um and experience again and again and again over time that uh we're valuable in a community.
21:01
SPEAKER_01: Uh, these girls and these moms actually are believing that um they're not just going to church on Sunday and going, yes, God loves me.
21:08
SPEAKER_01: Yes, I know the Bible tells me so, but they are genuinely experiencing it in real ways.
21:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's hard, it's messy.
21:17
SPEAKER_01: And but identity is really at the core of every issue I see in my office.
21:23
SPEAKER_01: Every issue.
21:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:24
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I'm a I'd rather go to the root than pluck a bunch of weeds.
21:29
SPEAKER_01: Amen.
21:31
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
21:32
SPEAKER_01: Courageous, um, being rooted in grace is really about it's about what God has done for us and not trying to be a superwoman.
21:38
SPEAKER_01: I mean, and people again will be like, Well, look at all you're doing.
21:42
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, honestly, we're we're not doing this on purpose.
21:46
SPEAKER_01: I'm just responding, and God is blowing it in the directions He's wanting it to go.
21:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, and it keeps me somewhat sane.
21:55
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
21:55
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's the best thing.
21:57
SPEAKER_00: Well, until we can get the picture in our hand, show me.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Or describe what we can expect the layout of the book to be like and and is it something we do with other people groups?
22:07
SPEAKER_00: Kind of give me some structure.
22:09
SPEAKER_00: Great question.
22:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:10
SPEAKER_01: I would love moms moms to be able to, and women actually.
22:13
SPEAKER_01: It's actually written for daughters, uh, anyone who's been a daughter.
22:17
SPEAKER_01: So raise our hand.
22:20
SPEAKER_01: Everyone, because it's really um, I went through all the core issues that women struggle with um and really address the root um piece.
22:29
SPEAKER_01: So our coping strategies, we might struggle with body image issues, comparison, insecurity.
22:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, we might struggle with perfectionism, we might struggle with drinking.
22:39
SPEAKER_01: I mean, whatever the struggle is, those are the weeds.
22:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:42
SPEAKER_01: So each of the chapters, um, I'm talking about what a courageous woman.
22:46
SPEAKER_01: Uh, she embraces holy crap, meaning she's not afraid of the messiness of her own story and that God uses the manure to grow amazing fruit.
22:57
SPEAKER_01: So being able to dive into those corners of our stories so that our daughters and our sons have a different legacy.
23:05
SPEAKER_01: Uh, she embraces rhythms of rest, she embraces her emotions, talk about the fact that she feels it to heal it.
23:13
SPEAKER_01: And that is something that I think most women struggle with is we just we're emotional, so we think let's just turn it off.
23:21
SPEAKER_01: And unfortunately, that actually has more damage.
23:24
SPEAKER_01: So, how do we process our emotions so that we can heal them rather than just, you know, quit crying kind of uh piece or afraid if we start crying and grieving over our the hard things that we won't ever stop.
23:38
SPEAKER_01: So I give tools, there's lots of practical tools at the end of each chapter.
23:41
SPEAKER_01: There's questions that you can either do for yourself or with a small group.
23:45
SPEAKER_01: My hope is that women would go deeper in intimacy and friendship.
23:49
SPEAKER_01: And then for those that want to take it a next step, they can do Courageous Girls online, and that's a free curriculum uh separate from the book, but it's for moms who are who are really interested in walking with their daughters on a deeper level.
24:03
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's so good.
24:04
SPEAKER_00: I love all these resources and get a better idea, give a better idea to my friends what to expect in it.
24:11
SPEAKER_00: And I I I think kind of like you said, if you are a daughter, then you probably need some of these words because most of us even if we don't not only will we not oftentimes want to feel the emotions, but it's hard to make time for them.
24:29
SPEAKER_00: And this is an open door to making time to process them.
24:33
SPEAKER_01: Totally.
24:34
SPEAKER_01: I think that's so true.
24:36
SPEAKER_01: It's just time.
24:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is.
24:38
SPEAKER_00: And I I found myself saying lately too, uh, and it's you know, it's kind of in line with my personality and it makes sense, but it's like I just don't have time to deal with that.
24:48
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to, I don't want to.
24:50
SPEAKER_00: I would rather just ignore it.
24:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's actually one of the gifts I think you and I give as coaches and counselors is that space, that protected time.
24:59
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
24:59
SPEAKER_01: And somebody to sit with you, and and there's profound neurobiology and neuroscience that talks about the power of the time, but also somebody to just empathize and kind of hold the bucket while you vomit a little bit.
25:12
SPEAKER_01: And when we know how to do that with each other as women, we can do that with our kids better and they actually grow up to be healthier adults, they get more, they understand God's kindness and his love greater.
25:24
SPEAKER_01: It's so cool, the systemic impact.
25:26
SPEAKER_01: And so this book is just really for the heart of women.
25:31
SPEAKER_01: And I I really am praying for a movement of women that are courageous in knowing that their God is a big, big God and He's moving in mighty ways through them right in their ordinary moments.
25:42
SPEAKER_01: Um, we don't have to all be uh, I don't know, Instagram superstars.
25:48
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
25:49
SPEAKER_00: None of us do.
25:51
SPEAKER_00: And I I love what you said that when we do learn how to hold the bucket for others or allow someone to hold the bucket for us, then we can do it better for our kids.
26:01
SPEAKER_00: I have seen that to be true.
26:03
SPEAKER_00: I have a couple of strong group of friends.
26:06
SPEAKER_00: I'm so grateful.
26:07
SPEAKER_00: It was something I've longed for my whole life.
26:08
SPEAKER_00: I think all of us women do, but a couple of them lead as type fours or just women who are more in touch with their feelings or being able to express it.
26:19
SPEAKER_00: And they have taught me to better sit with my kids in those low moments and not just reframe it or push through it as I would naturally do.
26:27
SPEAKER_00: It's been like one of the best gifts.
26:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:31
SPEAKER_01: And that's the gift of community of being all together with the different types.
26:35
SPEAKER_01: We just, yeah, we get to see uh a greater part, and I think we all reflect God's the whole fullness of Him, right?
26:43
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, absolutely, yeah, that's the whole point.
26:45
SPEAKER_00: Well, this message is for part of our Mother's Day theme, our mom's month that we're celebrating all of May, because well, I really like to celebrate moms all year long because we need it.
26:59
SPEAKER_00: But specifically this month, and I thought it would be fun.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: We've done this the last couple of years, uh, just in that in light of that, because the conversation a lot of times that when you start being a little bit more vulnerable with other moms is realizing that we each have a unique struggle and we've all been surprised by motherhood in some way.
27:20
SPEAKER_00: So I'm kind of curious what surprised you most about motherhood because you know, the baby showers, they try to prep us, they give us wisdom, but until we're sitting there holding them in our arms, we have no idea what we're about to face.
27:35
SPEAKER_01: It's so true.
27:37
SPEAKER_01: I I I would say what surprised me the most initially, and it's still the case, is how vulnerable I felt and I feel still.
27:46
SPEAKER_01: Uh I remember that feeling, and I don't like to be vulnerable.
27:52
SPEAKER_01: But I think I even wrote that in the book because it's so true, and yet God keeps having me there.
27:56
SPEAKER_01: But being a mother, um to really pour your whole self into these little ones and then to release them and and to let them be their own little people.
28:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:08
SPEAKER_01: And I think I've realized or been surprised uh by how controlling I think I am.
28:13
SPEAKER_01: I didn't realize that either.
28:14
SPEAKER_01: I didn't I'm kind of like, oh, I'm a hands-free, you know, not a micromanager.
28:21
SPEAKER_01: But man, children will definitely pull that out of you.
28:24
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
28:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, but the most beautiful part has been watching my girls at 13 and 11 now.
28:30
SPEAKER_01: I mean, to just see who they are and their own uniqueness, and I can just see God's fingerprint all over them.
28:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:38
SPEAKER_01: And things that I worry about, like I'll just give you one little story, and I know we need to end.
28:43
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I remember my oldest getting into middle school, and I was just so nervous.
28:47
SPEAKER_01: Do you have friends?
28:48
SPEAKER_01: She's an introvert.
28:49
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I'm talking to her about lunch table, and we're we're processing all about how to you know initiate friendships.
28:56
SPEAKER_01: She had good friends going in because of courageous girls, but no, it's public.
28:59
SPEAKER_01: We're in public school.
29:00
SPEAKER_01: It's she's in her high.
29:03
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
29:04
SPEAKER_01: None of us want to repeat those years.
29:06
SPEAKER_01: Yes, and it's it was my stuff because she looks at me, she goes, Mom, I'm doing just fine.
29:12
SPEAKER_01: Oh I actually love being alone sometimes.
29:15
SPEAKER_01: I'm an introvert.
29:18
SPEAKER_01: And then she goes, But I have friends and I know how to ask them to join me at the table when I need to.
29:23
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Oh, go, girl, you got a voice.
29:26
SPEAKER_01: And this is my stuff, not yours.
29:29
SPEAKER_01: So it just put me at ease, and it's just been so fun um to just see them become their own little people and uh and they're night and day different, um, but they're just beautiful, and it's a joy to be a mom.
29:41
SPEAKER_01: But yes, still vulnerable, still have control issues.
29:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we are all a work in progress for sure.
29:49
SPEAKER_00: No, I love that story, and I think that's great that you even realize that that's your stuff.
29:54
SPEAKER_00: But what's awesome is that you have given them shoulders to stand on.
29:59
SPEAKER_00: You have done hard work and you have invested into their hearts through this curriculum.
30:06
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, whether it be something you would have done on your own or whether even taking it to others has held you accountable to doing it, that's such a great testimony.
30:15
SPEAKER_00: Uh to that, I think we all want to give our children is a is a different experience than we had.
30:21
SPEAKER_00: And even though it's our stuff to to be able to teach them about our stuff, so it doesn't have to be theirs.
30:28
SPEAKER_01: That's yeah, that's profound right there.
30:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
30:30
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes we want to hide it and actually to just be honest and vulnerable about it is profound for them.
30:37
SPEAKER_01: And they, I think, will believe us more, respect us more, and actually, I think take our faith more seriously and make it their own too, when they know that we're human beings who have stuff.
30:49
SPEAKER_01: But it's suffering to know that they don't have to carry our baggage too.
30:53
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah.
30:54
SPEAKER_00: And I think that the fruit that you just mentioned, that is what we want, each one of us is to have that for our children, regardless of of what we did or didn't have.
31:05
SPEAKER_00: We want.
31:06
SPEAKER_00: We want that goodness for them.
31:08
SPEAKER_00: So oh, I love this.
31:09
SPEAKER_00: Tara, thank you so much for this conversation.
31:12
SPEAKER_00: I'm excited for others to get to your book and work through it and and check out Courageous Girls Online.
31:18
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's a free resource that you've created.
31:21
SPEAKER_00: And like you, like you said, hundreds of lessons and opportunities to sit down and and work through it on your own and with your daughters and to be able to see that good fruit.
31:31
SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Amy.
31:32
SPEAKER_01: This has been such a gift.
31:41
SPEAKER_00: Are you ready to embrace the holy mess that Tara mentioned?
31:45
SPEAKER_00: Discovering wholehearted identity is not a one-time deal.
31:49
SPEAKER_00: It's an ongoing lifelong journey, but one I hope you will join me in as we look to leave a different legacy for our children.
31:57
SPEAKER_00: You can get Tara's book Courageous, Being Daughters Rooted in Grace, on Amazon now, and I'd love it if you give her a follow on Instagram and send her a direct message to let her know what you have learned from this conversation.
32:10
SPEAKER_00: And if you know a mom who could use some encouragement during these crazy times, share this conversation with her to let her know that you are thinking of her.
32:18
SPEAKER_00: Next week we'll be back with another new and timely conversation.
32:22
SPEAKER_00: Be sure you are subscribed so you don't miss an episode.
32:25
SPEAKER_00: Until next week, let's pursue perspective, purpose, and plans for us simply, wholehearted life.