Latest / BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show / Pontiac Aztek: From Punchline to Cult Classic

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Pontiac Aztek: From Punchline to Cult Classic · BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show

• 0:00
  Grand Touring Motorsports started as a social group of car enthusiasts,
• 0:04
  but we've expanded into all sorts of motorsports disciplines, and we
• 0:08
  want to share our stories with you.
• 0:10
  Years of racing, wrenching, and motorsports experience brings
• 0:13
  together a top notch collection of knowledge and information
• 0:17
  through our podcast, Brake Fix.
• 0:22
  The ugliest car of all time.
• 0:24
  One of our friends who works here has this project that he's working
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  on, and it, it's a, it's a spectacle.
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  You're the most unattractive car.
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  There's so many.
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  Oh, whatever the thing was that was the cousin to the Buick Rendezvous.
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  What is that, uh, Pontiac car that They said it was the best car of
• 0:41
  all time, and I just, I don't know, man, they're just really ugly.
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  I don't know if people were buying those sight unseen or what happened.
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  I've seen the, uh, car that, uh, Heisenberg drove.
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  Was it the Aztec?
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  The Aztec?
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  The Aztec looks like he got beat by the ugly stick.
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  What was that, Aztec?
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  An Aztec.
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  Aztec.
• 1:00
  Was that the Aztec?
• 1:01
  Yeah.
• 1:01
  Yeah, Pontiac Aztec.
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  I'm gonna speak in its defense for a minute.
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  The Aztec did have some cool options.
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  Did you just use cool and Aztec in the same sentence?
• 1:09
  Sadly, yes.
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  It was But did it have to be shaped like a juice box?
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  Please tell me it's an Aztec.
• 1:15
  We really want to interview somebody with an Aztec Pulitzer Prize winning
• 1:19
  automotive journalist Dan Neal named tonight's featured vehicle one of the 50
• 1:25
  worst cars of all time, saying it violated one of the principal rules of car design.
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  We like cars that look like us.
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  With its multiple eyes and supernumerary nostrils, the Aztec looks deformed
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  and scary, something that dogs bark at and cathedrals employ to ring bells.
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  The shame is, under all that ugliness, there was actually
• 1:49
  a useful, competent crossover.
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  The Aztec has always been noted for its controversial styling, but thanks
• 1:56
  in part to Hollywood and passions of folks like our panel tonight, the
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  Aztec has gained more than just a cult following, and we want to explore that.
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  So without further ado, we want to welcome John Peterson and Paul Gunn from the
• 2:09
  Aztec Owners Club to Break Fix to unpack this legendary Pontiac Aztec story.
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  So welcome to Break Fix, gentlemen.
• 2:17
  Yeah, thank you.
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  Glad to be here.
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  We got to talk not about Pontiac's history about its origin.
• 2:23
  We have to fast forward the clock in the 85 year span of Pontiac to the year
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  2000 and talk about what was going on when a lot of critics were saying this
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  was supposed to be the renaissance.
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  for Pontiac.
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  Just a lot of bad things happened around that time.
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  So the Aztec had been around for a year.
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  Then 9 11 happens and the whole nation's focus goes toward the Middle East and
• 2:46
  fun kind of goes away for a while.
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  People become rather conservative.
• 2:51
  on their spending because people are uncertain about the future
• 2:55
  and all that sort of thing.
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  So at that time we had the Grand Am, the Bonneville, the Montana, and the
• 3:01
  reintroduction of the GTO, which was a Holden, the Monaro, we came to find
• 3:05
  out later, an Australian product.
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  And then suddenly comes The Aztec.
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  All these other cars are carryovers from the 1990s, but
• 3:14
  again, here comes the Aztec.
• 3:16
  Where did it come from?
• 3:17
  Where did this idea for this crossover SUV suddenly emerge?
• 3:21
  Other than that, I didn't really have much following of Pontiac.
• 3:24
  During that time, I think that's around the same time that came out with the
• 3:27
  solstice, which was to compete with the small little two door coupe type cars
• 3:32
  and things like that, other than the little bit of knowledge I do have with
• 3:36
  the Aztec, I don't know it's baseline of where it came from the thoughts
• 3:39
  of building it or anything like that.
• 3:41
  And luckily we've got the guys here tonight to give us those details.
• 3:44
  Pontiac was experimenting with it and they created their prototype,
• 3:47
  which got all these great reviews.
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  You know, you hear that these cars that are anomalies.
• 3:51
  Many times have these great reviews at car shows back through history.
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  You've got the Edsel, the Nash Metropolitan, some of these cars
• 3:59
  that are just some car show in New York and the public reaction is so
• 4:03
  strong that the manufacturer just thinks we've got a winner right here.
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  They got Tom Peters involved in designing this crossover.
• 4:11
  I'm not even sure if they'd used the word crossover at that time, but you
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  know, it's real angular there, all these angles and which, oh, by the
• 4:18
  way, Peter's said that we wanted to build a bold in your face vehicle.
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  That was not for everybody.
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  So, I mean, he did that.
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  And so while many people consider the car failure, except for fans
• 4:30
  of the car, of course, Tom Peters ended up designing the Corvette C7.
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  You know, you see all those angles that come out now on
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  this wildly popular sports car.
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  When the Aztec came out, it was an odd vehicle at the time.
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  You know, the Montana was just another nerd minivan.
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  And so now all of a sudden you've got this car that's got all these unusual features.
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  And I remember the first time I saw an Aztec, it was a yellow one.
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  I just couldn't quit staring.
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  I thought, you know, what planet did this come from?
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  And then I saw that it was a Pontiac, and I thought, This just doesn't line
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  up with Pontiacs as we know Pontiacs.
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  You know, this is not my dad's Pontiac.
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  GM estimated that they would sell 75, 000 Aztecs per year.
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  You know, you think Jim's been around for a long time.
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  So that type of market study, they missed it, but why do they miss it?
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  And they needed to produce 30, 000 per year to break even.
• 5:23
  But in none of the production years, did they reach 30, 000?
• 5:27
  GM lost money all the way around.
• 5:28
  Let's see, you've got.
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  The last year, only 5, 020 sold, plus 90 to Mexico, and then in 2006,
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  there were still 2, 005 lingering, and there were 247 sold in 2006,
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  and then there were still 2, 005 lingering in 2007, and 69 of them sold.
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  So you, you know, you had 69 that were Had been on the lot for two years.
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  Brad would love this.
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  It's like Lost in Town where you can buy a new 2016 Dodge Dart
• 5:59
  still today on Chrysler Lots.
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  Their best selling year was one of the earlier ones.
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  They only made like, they only sold like 27, 000, so.
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  Then how did, then how did the Aztec make it into production?
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  The same reason the Ford LTD made it into production.
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  Say what you will about the Ford LTD, but it was, Just another big American car.
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  They went to all the focus groups and picked one thing out of each focus
• 6:23
  groups that they said they wanted.
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  Did they, everything else out?
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  There was some redneck in the background.
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  Go.
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  I like them nostrils on the firebird.
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  I need that on my SUV.
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  I, for the Aztec.
• 6:35
  I think the writers and directors from Breaking Bad, long before the
• 6:40
  story was written, went to General Motors and said, we've got a story
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  we want to write and broadcast.
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  We need a vehicle that says, I'm a midlife crisis.
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  I need a car for that.
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  They already made that.
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  It's called the GeoMetro.
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  You know who bought the Aztec?
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  If you look at the packages Nobody.
• 6:57
  Nobody bought the Aztec.
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  Well I've seen exactly zero on the road.
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  You can lease a General Motors product if you work for General Motors,
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  you know, for practically nothing.
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  This is when I was working in Detroit.
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  Apparently, quite a few of those middle managers had Aztecs because
• 7:13
  there was nothing else on the roster.
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  In other words, you want to lease a, uh, Pontiac 6000 STE,
• 7:19
  you have to have an Aztec.
• 7:21
  You want to get a Firebird, you have to have an Aztec.
• 7:24
  You want a Cadillac, you You have to have an Aztec because he couldn't sell them.
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  Was the same reason why four corporate guys were driving two
• 7:31
  door Explorer Sports forever.
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  Couldn't sell them.
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  So it's just one of those cars that slipped through the
• 7:41
  cracks of design and promotion.
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  It picked up a niche market.
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  The Grand Am and the Bonneville both had history going on many, many, many years.
• 7:51
  Oh yeah.
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  The Montana evolved from the Silhouette.
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  The dust buster of the 80s, right?
• 7:56
  Yeah.
• 7:57
  Well, that was a weird car too, but you know, that's
• 7:59
  another, that's another podcast.
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  Well, for that generation, for the, uh, the Grand Ams, I do know
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  they did have, I think it was a 3.
• 8:07
  8 liter supercharged V6 in some of them.
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  The GTP.
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  Yeah.
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  My mom, she had the regular Grand Am GT and she actually still has that car.
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  And it was just the natural aspirated engine.
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  I've actually looked around at junkyard to see if I can find the ECU and
• 8:22
  supercharge off one to put on hers.
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  Engine and bottom end was the same.
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  Yes.
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  That was the hot, hot thing at the time at Pontiac that everything was
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  just kind of, it was just there.
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  Yeah.
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  It's kind of boring.
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  Exactly.
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  But the part that perplexes most people is where did the Aztec come from?
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  Just from somebody's imagination, because it's not based on anything.
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  It's not like some of the Japanese entries where it's like, well, we took a Toyota
• 8:46
  Camry and we built a minivan on top of it.
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  So we already had a chassis.
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  It was a ground up, just start from scratch.
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  Wow.
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  The world.
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  And the intention that I heard was that it needed to feature this extreme
• 8:59
  futuristic styling and it promised all this versatility for people of Dan and
• 9:04
  my generation, the Gen Xers, right?
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  And we're like, is this what we wanted?
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  You know, is this what we were looking for?
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  Wayne Cherry, who was head of design at GM at that time, when I asked him one
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  time, I said, Wayne, what were y'all thinking when you came out with the Aztec?
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  And the answer was, well, it played well in the clinics.
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  But you know, that was back when General Motors had what they call vehicle
• 9:26
  line engineers, VLEs, and they had the last word statement on manufacturing.
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  So the designers would come up with a great design, but the VLE would
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  say, well, you know, if we use the sunroof from the previous car, car.
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  We can save 2 a car.
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  So it makes the roof look goofy.
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  And then they decided they needed more air coming in the front.
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  So they made the front end look like some sort of a car pumpkin.
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  And then they decided to save money on the wheel size.
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  So they put these little dinky wheels on it.
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  And when the VLEs were finished with it, it didn't look a bit like
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  what the designers had come up with.
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  So that's when the bean counters are in charge of what's going on.
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  But I've also heard that Tom Peters was the head of design for the Aztec
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  who happens to be the gentleman that designed the C7 Corvette.
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  I was just with him.
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  Yeah.
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  I'm curious how we get from A to B, but maybe that's a whole
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  other episode into itself.
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  I think it determines what marketing and the division says they want in a package.
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  And then they got to design a package for it.
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  But that, that was a, that was a pretty good failure, I thought.
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  And I think the market proved that too.
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  That and the Buick Rendezvous built on the same platform
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  where General Motors watermarks.
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  And the guy who really turned that around was Bob Lutz.
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  The distant cousin, well the close cousin, no Aztec owner wants to
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  admit it, but the cousin is the Buick Rendezvous, basically the same
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  vehicle, although every Aztec owner is going to disagree with me on that.
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  Same engine, same unibody, different metal, and a third seat.
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  So you did have that luxury.
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  rendezvous version.
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  And I'm not sure which came first out of those two is probably a simultaneous,
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  you know, in case that the Aztec didn't make it or in case the rendezvous didn't
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  make it, they would still have all these parts that could go into the other car.
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  You know, no doubt it was an unusual car for its day.
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  The rendezvous, especially later became part of the GM 360 chassis, which
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  shared with the trailblazer, that last of the body on frame SUVs that GM was
• 11:21
  building in the later two thousands, they rebadged that, you know, you
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  had the envoy and a bunch of others.
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  So it was kind of a drastic shift from that Aztec platform
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  to the trailblazer platform.
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  But that also begs the question, where did the name come from?
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  I've heard some different rumors about where the name Aztec came
• 11:39
  from, because it's really a.
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  Step away from Grand Dam and Bonneville and Lamont's and all these other names
• 11:45
  that Pontiacs are synonymous with.
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  Honestly, I'm not sure where the name Aztec came from.
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  It's the one thing online that like you dig and dig and dig and you can't find it.
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  You know, I've looked for that answer everywhere.
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  Maybe we should ask Tom Peters.
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  The one thing I found that lends me to sort of in a halfway understanding
• 12:04
  why it's called the Aztec was apparently they were built in Mexico.
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  So it was to pay homage to the Mexican culture coming from
• 12:11
  the Aztec, something like that.
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  And I went, that's a bunch of malarkey.
• 12:14
  I don't know, but to John's point.
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  That's the closest thing I've been able to find in my research as to
• 12:20
  why they named it what they did.
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  A lot of cars have been made in Mexico, so I don't know.
• 12:24
  That's kind of a stretch.
• 12:25
  Maybe like the Aztec and the Mayan buildings, they were all very
• 12:28
  square, you know, not very circular.
• 12:31
  Maybe it took some of its, you know, square design from that as where
• 12:35
  they got some of their ideas from.
• 12:37
  Is that what explains those fender wheels?
• 12:41
  I read an article about how a lot of the Aztec was designed by a computer.
• 12:46
  It's one of the first cars that was solely computerized before
• 12:51
  it was actually manufactured.
• 12:53
  I don't know exactly what that means, but you've got like the, the
• 12:56
  rear window on the side is a little lower than the driver's window and
• 13:01
  the passenger's window, which is.
• 13:02
  Kind of odd.
• 13:03
  Apparently that's part of the computer program that helped design the car.
• 13:07
  But wasn't that also the issue, like with, was it the pacer, where
• 13:10
  one door was longer than the other?
• 13:12
  Did they do that on purpose?
• 13:12
  Yeah, the pacer.
• 13:13
  Yeah.
• 13:14
  Accidentally on purpose?
• 13:15
  Yeah, you know, I think the Aztec was probably really an AMC.
• 13:19
  That just slipped into the Pontiac world.
• 13:22
  You know, it really is.
• 13:23
  It's kind of like an AMC, right?
• 13:24
  It fits in there with all those oddball, the Gremlin, the all the Pacer, Hornet,
• 13:30
  or whatever that car was called.
• 13:32
  I've been in a lot of sticky situations being, you know, from Pennsylvania and
• 13:36
  my Aztec, those, uh, big fender wells have actually, you know, protected my
• 13:40
  car from getting quite a lot of damages.
• 13:43
  Just from everything from deer to potholes in the Pennsylvania roads, I like them
• 13:48
  more than I did when I first got the car.
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  So let's talk about each of yours Aztecs.
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  And we'll start with John.
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  When did you get yours?
• 13:55
  But even before that, what was your first impression of the
• 13:58
  vehicle and what drew you to it?
• 14:00
  When I first saw one, it was probably about in 2006.
• 14:04
  And to be honest, I was just entering middle school.
• 14:07
  I had a friend whose parents bought him one and I just thought it
• 14:10
  was the coolest car I ever saw.
• 14:12
  He had the complete 10 package and everything.
• 14:14
  And I go camping all the time.
• 14:15
  And I just thought that was rad, but 27, 000 sticker price.
• 14:20
  I was a pretty poor kid from the outer Erie area.
• 14:24
  So there was no way like I was ever going to be able to afford one.
• 14:27
  So I bided my time and I drove a 2003 Ford Taurus.
• 14:31
  Until about five years ago, I found one pretty close to Pittsburgh for a few
• 14:36
  grand and it ended up being rusted out.
• 14:39
  I ended up saving more money and then finding the queen in Florida
• 14:43
  and I hauled it back up and I've undercoded it like every year since.
• 14:47
  I absolutely love it.
• 14:48
  There's nothing I found that I really can't haul.
• 14:51
  And that's a very important point about the Aztec.
• 14:54
  One of its features, which we'll talk more about the special features of the vehicle
• 14:57
  in a little bit here, is that it's one of the few vehicles that can hold inside
• 15:01
  of its entire cargo space a 4x8 sheet of plywood without any sort of interruption.
• 15:07
  There's a lot of pickup trucks that struggle to do that because of
• 15:10
  fender arches and things like that.
• 15:11
  Like the Dodge Caravan, the early ones.
• 15:14
  The Aztec can swallow a piece of sheet rock or a piece of plywood, which is
• 15:17
  pretty quite incredible because a lot of people give the Aztec a lot of flack and
• 15:22
  everything, but like John was mentioning, he camped a lot and everything.
• 15:25
  And that was for me being an outdoors type person, I thought the Aztec was phenomenal
• 15:30
  for a lot of the options it had for the aspect of camping related type stuff.
• 15:33
  Because Subaru was catering to, with the Outback and things like that, catering
• 15:37
  to all the people that like to go outdoors and hiking and stuff like that.
• 15:39
  And I think that was the market Pontiac was intending to go for, but I don't
• 15:43
  know if it really worked out for them the way they possibly thinking.
• 15:46
  And the way I saw it, there was an article that talked about how the Pontiac Aztec
• 15:50
  concept car was supposed to have this extreme futuristic styling to reach this
• 15:55
  intended generation X buyer demographic.
• 15:58
  Well, I'm Gen X.
• 15:59
  I'm, I'm like the oldest of the Gen X.
• 16:01
  You know, no one's really been able to market anything to us.
• 16:05
  So you, do you remember the, uh, Suzuki X10?
• 16:08
  Yeah.
• 16:08
  You know, the little squatty thing, you know, that was supposed to be a
• 16:10
  Gen X car, but you know, it bombed.
• 16:13
  And so they came out with this and, uh, tried to reach
• 16:15
  the Gen X buyer demographic.
• 16:17
  But I, I think on resale it's happening.
• 16:20
  I don't think it really happened at the beginning because Gen X'ers Couldn't
• 16:23
  afford like he was talking about the price or maybe Subaru capitalized
• 16:28
  on where Pontiac failed because that marketing campaign didn't come till
• 16:32
  later and then they were able to pick up where the Aztecs sort of left off.
• 16:36
  So we got to kind of look at it chronologically and say, you
• 16:39
  know, it's not a chicken and egg.
• 16:40
  It's where Pontiac tried and didn't succeed.
• 16:43
  Others took that ball and ran with it.
• 16:45
  I want to talk to Paul about his impressions.
• 16:47
  The first time he saw an Aztec and what led him to buy one and what has.
• 16:52
  You know, first one was like, and things like that.
• 16:53
  I had a friend who had one and I, I just kept asking, every time I saw
• 16:57
  her, I said, how do you like this card?
• 16:58
  And she just said, we love it.
• 16:59
  And then I'd see her a few months later and said, how, how do you like this?
• 17:02
  How do you like it?
• 17:03
  We love it.
• 17:03
  I just, I couldn't really quit looking at it, but I didn't
• 17:06
  know if I liked it or not.
• 17:07
  But here's what happened.
• 17:08
  My son came home from college just a few years ago.
• 17:11
  He said, dad, uh.
• 17:12
  There's this tv show called Breaking Bad.
• 17:15
  Something got me thinking that maybe I could get one of these and it would
• 17:19
  build community between my sons and me.
• 17:23
  I started looking on Craigslist, Facebook Marketplace and this and I found one.
• 17:28
  Price was right.
• 17:29
  I bought it from the woman and did not tell my sons that I bought it.
• 17:33
  So they came home from college for Christmas.
• 17:36
  It was in the driveway.
• 17:37
  My sons just.
• 17:38
  Freaked out yellow, just the, in your face, yellow Paulson.
• 17:42
  And she mentioned breaking bad.
• 17:44
  Did you go out and buy yourself one of the pork pie hats, like Heisenberg
• 17:47
  war to where, no, no, not yet.
• 17:52
  Sounds like a stocking stuffer to me, Dan.
• 17:54
  Yeah.
• 17:54
  Stocking stuffer.
• 17:55
  I bought it kind of as a joke, but not really a joke because I wanted my sons to
• 18:00
  have reliable transportation in college.
• 18:02
  They took it to their university, a big university in a small town.
• 18:06
  It was the only Aztec they think in the whole County.
• 18:09
  My son said all day long, they would get videos from their friends of them
• 18:14
  driving the Aztec going down the road.
• 18:16
  And then my daughter saw it and she got jealous.
• 18:19
  She said, you know, I'd really like to have one of these.
• 18:21
  So I ended up getting a copper colored one.
• 18:24
  She drove it through part of college and I ended up giving it to her.
• 18:28
  And she loves, she teaches at an inner city school and the children, when she
• 18:32
  drove in, one of the kids said, wow, Ms.
• 18:35
  Gunn, it looks like you've got something that came from outer space.
• 18:38
  And they, they had never seen one before.
• 18:40
  Now here, my kids had them and I wanted one.
• 18:42
  I know, I know we have a fleet of them, you know, so.
• 18:47
  I was able to get a gray silver one that is probably the best got the highest
• 18:51
  miles of the ones that I have was a one owner car price was like cheap, like
• 18:56
  1400, you know, a bit of work done to it.
• 18:58
  It's just been great for us.
• 19:00
  And fortunately, I have a son who's gone overseas with the military.
• 19:04
  So he brought the Aztec home and I told him to prepare to buy his own car.
• 19:09
  I want this one for me.
• 19:10
  It sounds like with the yellow and the copper, are these the
• 19:14
  all body colored Aztecs, the later ones or these early Aztecs?
• 19:18
  Yes.
• 19:18
  I do not have a 2001 it they are the all body color, same plastic on the,
• 19:23
  whatever they call it, some kind of protection guard or something.
• 19:26
  But I, but I think it was just a 2001.
• 19:28
  You guys correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it was just a 2001 that
• 19:31
  had the, the black at the bottom.
• 19:33
  Yep.
• 19:33
  So John, how about you?
• 19:34
  What year is your Aztec?
• 19:36
  I have a 2002 Arctic White.
• 19:38
  And a 2003 Arctic white.
• 19:40
  And my mom has a 2002 steel blue.
• 19:44
  The fleet, it's like Lay's potato chips.
• 19:47
  You can't just have one, right?
• 19:48
  Yeah, you can't have one.
• 19:49
  And, uh, the fleet kind of worked good for the kids in college, you know,
• 19:52
  because I could go to pull apart, you know, just pick all kinds of parts.
• 19:56
  Now, the ones that you guys have, are they all front wheel drive or are you
• 19:59
  guys fortunate enough to have picked up an all wheel drive Versa track?
• 20:03
  Mine are all front wheel drive.
• 20:06
  Unfortunately, that's like one of the bad things that I hear about it is
• 20:09
  that the Versatrack is unpredictable.
• 20:12
  Yeah.
• 20:12
  And hard to manage.
• 20:14
  So did they borrow that system from like the, the safari vans or
• 20:17
  something like that, or was it its own?
• 20:19
  I think it was its own thing, because it had its own fluid.
• 20:22
  Dan would probably know.
• 20:23
  He knows all that technical stuff.
• 20:24
  Our resident GM bow tie expert.
• 20:27
  The VersaTrack that was in them, I did a quick look up on that and it
• 20:31
  showed that other than the Aztec, it was also offered in the Montanas,
• 20:34
  the Silhouettes, and the Rendezvous.
• 20:35
  Oh, wow.
• 20:36
  So it was like a Haldex system, like they use later in the, um, probably
• 20:40
  in the SRXs and some of the, you know, the Cadillacs and things like that.
• 20:43
  So they did have it in quite a few.
• 20:45
  And that's a common thing with most manufacturers, in GM in particular, they
• 20:48
  use stuff across the board throughout multiple Whole different vehicles, and
• 20:52
  that's in my opinion, following GM parts.
• 20:53
  Yeah, in my opinion, GM is one of the most versatile with being able
• 20:57
  to have parts off of one vehicle can fit on 10 other vehicles.
• 21:00
  And that's big reason I'm a GM guy.
• 21:02
  As soon as I got my Aztec, I knew nothing about cars before then.
• 21:06
  I just drove them until they crap.
• 21:08
  I love to the cars so much.
• 21:09
  I, I had to start learning about it in order to start fixing it.
• 21:13
  So I'm learning slowly but surely.
• 21:15
  So you talked about the price.
• 21:17
  John mentioned about 27, 28, 000 when they were new.
• 21:20
  I happened to see the Aztec at the New York auto show when they debuted in
• 21:24
  2000, saw them again in DC, 2002 with a friend of mine, we would go on a
• 21:30
  pilgrimage to DC auto show every year.
• 21:32
  And it was always one of these things where there was
• 21:34
  a huge crowd around the car.
• 21:36
  And yes, you would see the sticker in the window and go, my God, really?
• 21:40
  30, 000 after destination charges and taxes.
• 21:43
  Can you really stomach that?
• 21:45
  So now here we are 22 years later.
• 21:49
  What's the market look like?
• 21:50
  Especially this crazy used car market for an Aztec.
• 21:53
  Have they held any value or are they pretty reasonable?
• 21:57
  Yeah, they're pretty reasonable.
• 21:58
  Yeah, the other guys may have some opinions there, but you know, I'll
• 22:01
  see them anywhere from running 2, 500 to one with really low
• 22:06
  mileage of like 45, 000 miles.
• 22:09
  I think one was on our page there and our group page sold for maybe 7, It's
• 22:14
  like in, you know, garage condition.
• 22:16
  They're pretty inexpensive on the used market.
• 22:18
  At least that's my experience here in the South.
• 22:20
  I can say that some dealers are starting to get wise.
• 22:24
  It's growing popularity.
• 22:26
  I have seen some people try to ask four or 5, 000 for one with over 200, 000 miles.
• 22:32
  I've seen those Facebook ads, but generally you can find pretty
• 22:36
  reasonable prices for them.
• 22:38
  I have too, if that tells you anything.
• 22:40
  Yeah.
• 22:41
  And to that point, you know, before we sat down for this episode, I was
• 22:44
  texting back and forth with you guys.
• 22:46
  There are some Aztecs showing up even in museums, obviously from the popularity
• 22:50
  of Breaking Bad, but you spot them.
• 22:52
  I mean, they stand out and you're like, look, there's an Aztec in the museum.
• 22:55
  There are quite a few out there.
• 22:56
  So to your point, Paul, I think it's a good starter vehicle, especially if you're
• 22:59
  looking for something a little bit older.
• 23:01
  You know, you guys talked about higher mileage Aztecs.
• 23:04
  What motor is in the Aztec?
• 23:06
  The center of reliability is that engine.
• 23:09
  Is this a borrowed GM power plant from something else or did they develop
• 23:13
  a new engine just for the Aztec?
• 23:15
  I don't know.
• 23:17
  I've actually bought some Montana, like engine covers, they fit right on.
• 23:21
  They both are 3.
• 23:21
  4 V6.
• 23:23
  So that would have been a carryover from like the Beretta that also had a 3, 400.
• 23:27
  What else had a 3, 400 in it, Dan?
• 23:29
  The Montana had it in it.
• 23:31
  Grindavu showing a handful of different vehicles that had that engine in it.
• 23:35
  And I know even the Grand Am, I think at one point had 3.
• 23:39
  Yeah, it was an odd size.
• 23:41
  It didn't come in a lot of cars.
• 23:42
  So it's kind of interesting that they decided to put that motor in the Aztec.
• 23:46
  Something to be said about that GM V6, right?
• 23:48
  They run forever as long as you take care of them.
• 23:50
  And that actually leads into a great conversation about cost of ownership.
• 23:53
  You guys are both turning wrenches on your Aztecs.
• 23:56
  You're maintaining them now, 22 year old cars, right?
• 23:59
  20 year old cars in some cases.
• 24:00
  What's it like to own, operate, and maintain one of these?
• 24:04
  Like, what are some of the known, let's say, fail issues or things
• 24:07
  that you guys have had to deal with?
• 24:08
  You know, do a lot of things go wrong with them, especially
• 24:10
  now being as old as they are?
• 24:12
  I'd say the main thing is the cooling system.
• 24:15
  It's the one thing that can make or break your engine.
• 24:18
  You see a lot of these things in scrap yards for cooling failures.
• 24:23
  Blown head gaskets.
• 24:25
  My experience is you check that coolant level and you check that oil
• 24:28
  level and you keep checking them.
• 24:30
  And if you start getting a leak, you fix it.
• 24:32
  Now, my first one, I did let it go when they overheat, they are done.
• 24:36
  So keep it cool.
• 24:37
  If I recall correctly, those were aluminum engines and the aluminum they were using
• 24:42
  during that generation did not like.
• 24:44
  I discovered the fans come on at an unreasonable temperature.
• 24:49
  It's higher than it should be.
• 24:52
  I was talking with my mechanic and he said something about it being like
• 24:55
  40 or 50 degrees higher than when the fans kick on in other vehicles.
• 25:00
  It's outrageous.
• 25:01
  And it's why I tell people in our group, when I see mine going.
• 25:04
  Even a little bit past that halfway mark on the heat meter,
• 25:08
  I kicked the heat on and bring it right back down just to be safe.
• 25:11
  I haven't had any problems with mine.
• 25:13
  With the heat being an issue on those, GM having so much, like, interchangeability,
• 25:17
  I wonder if the sensor for when it kicks the fans on for the relay, if
• 25:21
  it could be changed out with another vehicle to where it would bring it down.
• 25:23
  Because I know A lot of the GM's normal operating temperature for thermostats
• 25:27
  is normally around 190 degrees.
• 25:28
  And when you're going down the road, it'll sit a little bit above that 190
• 25:32
  because the thermostat opens at 190.
• 25:33
  I know with the older V8s and stuff, I always run a 160 degree thermostat
• 25:38
  to keep them running cooler.
• 25:39
  I wonder if they offer a lower running temperature one for the Aztecs that
• 25:42
  could help with that cooling issue.
• 25:43
  We've also discussed like a switch.
• 25:45
  Just the cooling.
• 25:46
  Override the fans and kick them on.
• 25:48
  And I've got like the seat warmers and stuff.
• 25:50
  There's one button I have in the middle of the center console there.
• 25:53
  It doesn't do anything.
• 25:55
  So I thought of having him wire switched directly to them.
• 25:58
  And you know, John, that little trick that you're using is something
• 26:01
  we actually use on the track.
• 26:02
  You use the heater core as an auxiliary radiator to dissipate heat when you're,
• 26:06
  it's on a really, really hot day.
• 26:08
  So that's actually very insightful for you to do that.
• 26:10
  Another trick some people do is.
• 26:12
  Kick on the air conditioning without actually kicking it over to cold.
• 26:16
  So because that'll force both fans to turn on as well for extra cooling, but the
• 26:20
  trick that you're using, though, it stinks on a super hot day is to kick on that
• 26:24
  heater and dissipate some of that heat.
• 26:26
  Well, when you're in Pennsylvania and it's only summer, you
• 26:29
  know, for It's not too bad.
• 26:30
  You roll the windows down, you get used to it.
• 26:35
  Paul, what other known issues with the Aztec have you faced, you
• 26:39
  know, with having so many in your fleet as well, or things that you
• 26:41
  guys have learned from the forums?
• 26:44
  Cooling problem is a problem when you read about it on our website.
• 26:47
  group page.
• 26:48
  And when you look at the ads, but I haven't had that problem, but I've done
• 26:52
  my best to use really good radiator fluid.
• 26:55
  Cardinal rule with my sons was you've got to check your radiator fluid level
• 27:00
  and you've got to pay attention to this hot and cold thermostat in there.
• 27:04
  The other problems that we've had the dashboard warps, it shrinks the pad over
• 27:10
  the top of the hard plastic shrinks.
• 27:12
  Now, I think in the latest models, They were probably okay, but in the
• 27:16
  earlier models, it just shrinks.
• 27:18
  But I think it did that on other Pontiacs too.
• 27:20
  The glue broke down and then the actual pad shrank.
• 27:25
  It's ugly.
• 27:25
  It's just part of it.
• 27:27
  You know, I'd like to see an aftermarket pad that would fit over that.
• 27:30
  That's a cosmetic problem.
• 27:32
  Was the Aztec plagued with the same issues that a lot of cars during that
• 27:35
  time period had, which was the whole soft touch where they made a lot of
• 27:39
  the hard plastics feel almost leathery?
• 27:42
  Where they would spray on whatever that chemical was.
• 27:44
  I know like the German cars, man, they were drenched in that stuff.
• 27:47
  And it'd be, Oh yeah, no, no, this was gross.
• 27:50
  Yeah.
• 27:50
  Yeah, no, this is different.
• 27:52
  It's, it's just an actual typical soft pad, but I saw, I think it was
• 27:56
  a Bonneville from the same era and it was the same deal on the dash.
• 27:59
  So it's just something about the GM glue they were using.
• 28:03
  I think the materials GM was using at that time too were just subpar material.
• 28:07
  Yeah.
• 28:08
  Yeah.
• 28:08
  I agree.
• 28:09
  A lot of plastics would crack and it was just horrible.
• 28:12
  Yeah.
• 28:12
  Unfortunately, pulling one from a junkyard and trying to repair all
• 28:17
  that is just almost impossible.
• 28:19
  We had some people who had some clever repairs that they've done that look okay.
• 28:23
  I can tell you the one that's the death of my yellow Aztec,
• 28:26
  unfortunately, and I'm about to post it.
• 28:28
  As a giveaway, if somebody wants it, John, you may have seen this too
• 28:32
  on the driver's side rear fender.
• 28:35
  Well, there was a sticker.
• 28:37
  Yeah.
• 28:37
  And this sticker was something in the manufacturing process.
• 28:41
  And the stickers about the size of a cigarette pack picture, a
• 28:45
  car going down the assembly line and the wheel is not on yet.
• 28:49
  And there's some kind of sticker that just went on that fender.
• 28:52
  Then they put the weather coating.
• 28:55
  Over that, you know, what happens here, the weight of the weather coating
• 28:59
  over time, pulled that sticker away.
• 29:02
  And then that's become a classic rust spot in the driver's side, rear fender well.
• 29:07
  And so salt water, especially in our Northern States, the
• 29:12
  one I got was from Illinois.
• 29:13
  It just creeped into the suspension in the unibody one day, just, you know, the,
• 29:19
  the spot welds in there just broke loose.
• 29:21
  Here's my son driving this thing that's just going all over the road.
• 29:24
  And I said, what in the world are you doing?
• 29:26
  And I drove and I said, the car is finished.
• 29:28
  No way we can fix it.
• 29:29
  Somebody is looking at an Aztec.
• 29:31
  They need to look that over really well, and they need to get under it.
• 29:35
  And you can see visually if there's damage that's been caused by that flaw.
• 29:40
  Trying to think through some repairs on how to fix that.
• 29:43
  John, if you have any idea there, but I think I'm just going to get some
• 29:46
  type of roofing material with mesh.
• 29:49
  Just cover it.
• 29:50
  I'm not sure what to do, but that is a, it's a major problem.
• 29:52
  And then transmissions are also can be problems.
• 29:56
  I've had two rebuilds overall.
• 29:58
  When I look at getting three kids through college, you don't want to put a lot
• 30:01
  of money into your kid's college car.
• 30:03
  It's been well worth the money, even including the, uh, transmission rebuilds.
• 30:08
  I feel like we've got our money's worth.
• 30:09
  Now the best running Aztec I have has probably 330, 000 miles.
• 30:14
  Wow.
• 30:14
  Get in it and ride.
• 30:15
  It's just as smooth as a brand new car.
• 30:17
  Yep.
• 30:17
  What kind of unique features did the Aztec have?
• 30:20
  So many.
• 30:20
  I mean, it's got the tent package, of course.
• 30:23
  There's a sliding rollout cargo tray, which I love.
• 30:28
  Never have I ever not spilled more groceries in my life.
• 30:31
  Then when I've had this car, like it's amazing.
• 30:34
  I drive carelessly with bags full of glass jars in that cargo tray.
• 30:38
  And I don't worry about it ever.
• 30:40
  There was a DVD player.
• 30:42
  It had on star many different leather and cloth seat packages.
• 30:46
  They had cargo nets.
• 30:48
  They had these little bags that.
• 30:50
  sat in the doors.
• 30:51
  They were like leather pouches, lots and lots of stuff.
• 30:53
  I distinctly remember the vents.
• 30:56
  I don't want to say they're 360, but they're just gyro, right?
• 30:59
  I mean, they can move almost in any direction.
• 31:01
  Is that, is that right?
• 31:02
  They're kind of bug eyed.
• 31:03
  That's how I've heard a lot of people describe them.
• 31:05
  Really bug eyed ever since I heard that.
• 31:07
  Now I can't think of anything else to describe it, but yeah,
• 31:10
  yeah, they are interesting vents.
• 31:12
  They do blow very hard.
• 31:13
  They're huge too, right?
• 31:14
  So that kind of helps.
• 31:16
  There's two that right on the back of the console that blow toward the back too.
• 31:19
  So that's kind of a neat feature in a vehicle like that.
• 31:22
  Reminds me of the ball chiller they had in the Fords, right Dan?
• 31:28
  That being said, what's one of the best things about the Aztec?
• 31:31
  I mean, John has told us about this camping package, I guess what they used
• 31:34
  to call a camper special, you know, back in the old days, is that the best thing
• 31:38
  about the Aztec or is there something else that is just like one of these
• 31:40
  creature comforts that you're like, I don't find this in any other car.
• 31:44
  I just think it's more comfortable than any other car I've driven.
• 31:47
  I've never been more at one with a vehicle than I have with this car.
• 31:52
  It's just so smooth.
• 31:53
  I would agree.
• 31:54
  Very smooth car, despite the miles, despite the age, the
• 31:58
  seating position, back support, the seats are very well made.
• 32:02
  Maybe they didn't spend money on the dash, but they did on the seats.
• 32:06
  One of the real clever features is that the back seats can come out easily.
• 32:11
  And so you have this large flat space.
• 32:13
  Now John's got this cargo tray that can hold up to like 400 pounds of cargo.
• 32:17
  But if you take that tray out, you just got a flat bed there.
• 32:20
  There's an inflatable mattress that fits for the tent.
• 32:24
  You can put a four by eight.
• 32:26
  piece of plywood or drywall in the back of this car.
• 32:29
  It fits great.
• 32:30
  You've got a hatchback and a tailgate, the same vehicle, just the versatility of
• 32:35
  it, the cooler between the seats there.
• 32:37
  That's cool, but, uh, I don't really use it that much, but
• 32:40
  it's a hot item that gets stolen.
• 32:42
  I hear from Aztecs.
• 32:43
  The overall versatility of the vehicle is what makes it so unique
• 32:47
  and the comfort of the driving.
• 32:48
  So you mentioned it's a third row SUV, right?
• 32:51
  Yeah.
• 32:51
  No, that was the rendezvous.
• 32:53
  Okay.
• 32:54
  So they added a row to that.
• 32:55
  So when you fold down the seats to get that plywood in there,
• 32:59
  are they like a tuck and fall into the floor like a caravan?
• 33:02
  Or do you have to pull the seats out?
• 33:03
  Or did they fold down like a Volkswagen Golf?
• 33:05
  Like, how does that work from an interior composition perspective?
• 33:09
  You would just fold down the back of the seat, which would go
• 33:12
  flat over the chair of the seat.
• 33:14
  And then there's just a clip on the bottom, similar to, uh, how I remember
• 33:18
  a Suburban that I had one time, it just pulls right off of the fasteners
• 33:22
  on the floor and you just pull it out.
• 33:24
  You know, it's a little heavy, but you can take them out in no time.
• 33:27
  They're compact, put them in the corner of your garage, your house,
• 33:31
  and then you've got all the space.
• 33:32
  More room than a pickup truck in some respects, right?
• 33:35
  Yeah.
• 33:35
  Another cool feature that I liked was on the tailgate.
• 33:39
  They have kind of imprinted in the plastic, two seats with cup holders.
• 33:43
  Yeah.
• 33:43
  And also in the back, some models had controls for the radio.
• 33:47
  And I use that all the time.
• 33:49
  We have a drive in out here and it's amazing.
• 33:52
  Like I don't even have to go up front, mess with the radio.
• 33:55
  I can mess with the radio while I'm sitting back there looking at the movie.
• 33:58
  Volume, everything.
• 34:00
  That's one of my favorite features.
• 34:01
  They came with pioneer speakers that model with the, uh, the rear controls.
• 34:06
  Powerful pioneer speakers that tailgate that was a great thing with my sons when
• 34:11
  they went places, you know, they've got the seats, the tailgate goes down as he
• 34:15
  seats and these inserts for your cups.
• 34:18
  You know, those were great features.
• 34:19
  Well, you mentioned the controls in the back and one of the key things
• 34:23
  that stuck out to me was affected.
• 34:26
  I don't recall.
• 34:27
  Many or any vehicles prior to that, that had a power port in the back
• 34:31
  that you could plug into to power accessories and things like that.
• 34:34
  Now it's a common thing across the board with so many manufacturers.
• 34:37
  And I think the Aztec was one of the first cars that I recall ever seeing have that.
• 34:41
  Yeah.
• 34:41
  Also had an air pump.
• 34:42
  My SS Trailblazer had an air compressor in the back.
• 34:45
  It also doubled to work the air suspension as well.
• 34:48
  So it was kind of interesting.
• 34:49
  Aztec too.
• 34:50
  The Aztec has air ride as well.
• 34:52
  Yep.
• 34:52
  I have air ride shocks.
• 34:54
  So it's self leveling in the rear.
• 34:56
  I mean, who knew, obviously you guys, that's pretty cool.
• 35:01
  Not all Aztecs, but some.
• 35:03
  So are there different trim levels then when you're shopping for an Aztec?
• 35:06
  Like what's the name of the base model versus the mid versus the top
• 35:10
  of the line, like, you know, Pontiac's famous for the GT model sort of being
• 35:13
  the top, but is there an Aztec GT?
• 35:16
  There is an Aztec GT and it's identifiable by A's on the rear doors.
• 35:21
  There's little plastic A's that they put near the window.
• 35:24
  To be honest, I've went and checked out ones for sale, base models for
• 35:28
  sales that have way more options than some GT models I've seen.
• 35:31
  Dealers ordered these on a custom basis to what some people wanted.
• 35:35
  Because I found a few very weird base models out there.
• 35:39
  Yeah, like mine I got from Florida is loaded, is absolutely loaded.
• 35:43
  But my 2002 that I got from Pennsylvania that's rusted out
• 35:47
  is a GT and it has nothing.
• 35:49
  So I actually took the A's off of the 2002 and I put them on the 2003.
• 35:54
  Because I mean it's just, the car's loaded.
• 35:56
  John probably knows more information on this than I do, but you have
• 36:00
  the Aztec rally, which was like the sport model of the Aztec and I think
• 36:06
  the suspension was the vehicle road one inch lower than the other ones.
• 36:10
  So my copper one is rally.
• 36:12
  You do feel like you've gripped the road.
• 36:15
  A lot better, even though it's just one inch lower.
• 36:18
  You can tell that the rally by these, uh, aggressive looking chrome wheels.
• 36:22
  There was all kinds of different wheel options with the Aztec,
• 36:25
  but John, you may know a little more about the rally than I do.
• 36:27
  And the only other thing is that the grill inserts for the rally
• 36:31
  are the same color as the car.
• 36:32
  Yeah.
• 36:33
  So, and they have rally under the, yeah.
• 36:35
  So now you mentioned the Raleigh sits an inch lower compared to the
• 36:39
  conventional Aztec it's that inch higher and you said it rides a little better.
• 36:42
  The center of gravity is it high on that vehicle to where going around turns
• 36:45
  you kind of have a lot of body roll.
• 36:47
  It has potential to roll.
• 36:48
  Personally went 360 on not very snowed roads.
• 36:52
  I mean maybe about half an inch of snow on the road.
• 36:55
  My back end slipped out from under me and I.
• 36:57
  Did 360 probably four or five times.
• 37:00
  Wow.
• 37:01
  Yeah.
• 37:01
  Yeah.
• 37:02
  I don't know how well the Versatrack performs in the snow
• 37:05
  because I don't have it, but I actually bought a 1988 Buick Riata.
• 37:09
  So I don't have to drive that in the snow anymore.
• 37:12
  I mean, talk about another, another odd ball too, right?
• 37:15
  It's an odd ball.
• 37:16
  Yeah.
• 37:17
  I like odd, odd cars.
• 37:18
  With features, what do you guys consider to be the worst feature of the Aztec?
• 37:22
  I'd probably say the dashboard and the, uh, instrument panel, the lights,
• 37:27
  the gas gauges, they always go out.
• 37:30
  My lights are going out now.
• 37:31
  It sucks at night.
• 37:32
  I've not found many people who are willing to fix it yet.
• 37:36
  So you mentioned the, uh, dash is, uh, the Aztec of vehicle.
• 37:39
  Cause I know a handful of late nineties, early two thousands model GM, even Dodge
• 37:44
  cars, their gauge clusters were horrible for like the lousy electronics in them
• 37:50
  to where they would eventually go bad.
• 37:52
  Is that a common thing for that to happen in the Aztecs?
• 37:55
  The radio display, they always go out.
• 37:57
  It's rare to find one, I think, that's working perfectly.
• 38:00
  Mine worked a little bit.
• 38:02
  I mean, I could actually see it when I bought it, but now it's completely black.
• 38:06
  Thankfully, I have the heads up display, so I can see where I'm
• 38:09
  tuning the radio to and stuff.
• 38:11
  If I didn't, I wouldn't be able to tell.
• 38:13
  Wait, so this has the heads up display that Cadillac five years ago and some of
• 38:17
  the other GM brands were touting that was super awesome, and they just invented it?
• 38:21
  You're saying it already existed?
• 38:23
  On the Aztec 2001.
• 38:25
  Again, who knew you guys knew?
• 38:28
  I think the first car I ever saw that had that was back in the 90s.
• 38:31
  It was, I think a Plymouth Acclaim.
• 38:33
  And I'm like, why does this car have that as an option?
• 38:37
  I was like, that option didn't seem to go with the car.
• 38:39
  Cause the car was like, why would you put that effort into a car like this?
• 38:42
  But they did.
• 38:42
  You know, it's so convenient though.
• 38:44
  To not have to look down to see your speed.
• 38:47
  Yeah, I do a little bit of speeding on my way to work and stuff.
• 38:50
  I know where the cops sit.
• 38:51
  I don't even have to not pay attention to the road and I work third ship.
• 38:56
  So it's really, really nice.
• 38:58
  There's always good, bad, and indifferent with every car, right?
• 39:00
  Whether you're a Pontiac fan, a Volkswagen fan, Honda,
• 39:03
  Porsche, you know, you name it.
• 39:04
  They've all got their issues, right?
• 39:06
  And they all have their ups and their downs.
• 39:08
  As we know, the Aztec only live For five years, did it really?
• 39:13
  And I started digging into this a little bit and I'm going to ask
• 39:15
  you guys as the experts, did the Aztec morph into another vehicle?
• 39:20
  Does it live on as something else?
• 39:22
  If so, what is that?
• 39:23
  Something else?
• 39:24
  I think maybe that's still being defined in our Facebook group.
• 39:28
  We've got people who want to own one.
• 39:31
  They can't afford to go get the free one.
• 39:33
  That's only, you know, an hour from them.
• 39:34
  And then we've got these guys who are really like John, who
• 39:37
  just really baby in their card.
• 39:39
  Keeping it up as much as possible.
• 39:40
  So I don't know that it's morphed into anything else.
• 39:44
  Are you talking about a modern vehicle that echoes the Aztec or has
• 39:48
  the Aztec become like its own brand?
• 39:51
  Well, maybe a little bit of both, but here's what I'm thinking.
• 39:54
  So the Aztec went away in 2005 and then suddenly in 2006, there
• 39:59
  was a slightly less aggressive looking, similar styling cues.
• 40:04
  The torrent.
• 40:05
  Oh, right.
• 40:06
  The torrent.
• 40:06
  And that lasted through almost 2010.
• 40:09
  Right.
• 40:09
  So the question is, is the torrent really the Aztec generation too?
• 40:15
  And if so, did they water it down too much and take away
• 40:19
  the personality of the Aztec?
• 40:20
  Not just in its aesthetics and its styling, but overall, and do people
• 40:25
  look for the torrent over the Aztec?
• 40:28
  I think that's a fair assumption.
• 40:29
  Anywhere you go and dig about the Aztec, you'll read that they were trying to
• 40:32
  be aggressive for aggressiveness sake.
• 40:35
  They were trying to be so out there.
• 40:37
  Obviously, when it fails, the company doesn't want to eat that.
• 40:41
  It has to be fixed.
• 40:42
  So, I think that's fair.
• 40:43
  They trimmed it down, made this car.
• 40:45
  They're going back to being safe.
• 40:47
  Yeah, that's it.
• 40:48
  If you look at the body lines and the way they changed the torrent, In my
• 40:52
  opinion, it was a predecessor to the vehicles like the Acadia and things like
• 40:56
  that, because it looks very similar to an older version of the equinox space cars.
• 41:02
  Yeah, I could see that too.
• 41:03
  I mean, granted the first equinox was based on the trailblazer that GM built.
• 41:08
  360 chassis that only lasted during that time period.
• 41:12
  And then they replaced it with the new chassis, which now everything
• 41:15
  seems to be based on that.
• 41:16
  So I see where you're going, but there's certain design cues in the torrent,
• 41:19
  especially that back window and the snout and some of you're like, man, that is
• 41:23
  still an Aztec rose by any other name.
• 41:26
  Still a rose, right?
• 41:27
  So to John's point, I think they watered it down.
• 41:29
  They took the safe approach to keep the Aztec line going now, changing the
• 41:33
  engine, changing some other things.
• 41:35
  The 3.
• 41:35
  4 liter was out by that point.
• 41:37
  So yeah, it's a modern version.
• 41:39
  So something to consider if you're not a big fan of the look of the Aztec,
• 41:43
  but you still want some of those cool features and some of the other stuff,
• 41:46
  the torrent might be a place to look.
• 41:47
  That also brings me to something really interesting that I think
• 41:50
  would make you guys really happy.
• 41:51
  And I'm sure you'll post about it on the club page.
• 41:53
  We interviewed team Cadillac captain, team Corvette, Mr.
• 41:57
  Andy Pilgrim, you know, who was a factory GM driver for years.
• 42:02
  And I asked him during his session, what is the coolest car of all time?
• 42:07
  And he said, point blank
• 42:15
  outside of all the race cars.
• 42:16
  Is there a sexiest car of all time?
• 42:19
  Something that really gets you excited.
• 42:21
  I'm not going to say what I normally say, which would be a Kia Soul.
• 42:24
  Um, because.
• 42:26
  I kind of like boxy cars, and I'm a big fan of the Pontiac Aztek.
• 42:30
  So, the fact that most people have just turned off the broadcast I do
• 42:35
  like funny, weird looking cars, but
• 42:41
  He's the first person on the show to say that.
• 42:44
  So you guys can take that to the bank.
• 42:46
  And we haven't recorded that any program says he loves the Pontiac Aztec.
• 42:49
  That's pretty cool.
• 42:51
  That's cool.
• 42:51
  So that brings me to my next question, which is, are there
• 42:55
  any famous or celebrity folks out there that are Aztec owners?
• 43:00
  Not that I know of.
• 43:01
  I tell everyone Breaking Bad is a five season commercial for that car.
• 43:05
  Yeah.
• 43:06
  When people think about the Aztec, they think Bryan Cranston,
• 43:09
  they think Breaking Bad.
• 43:10
  So in the club, there's always that one guy, right?
• 43:14
  Or there's multiple guys that strive for the biggest collection.
• 43:17
  Who's got the biggest collection of Aztecs out there?
• 43:21
  Where are they?
• 43:22
  And how many are there?
• 43:23
  I mean, there's quite a few collectors.
• 43:25
  We have a guy who done his Aztec up, just like the Breaking Bad Aztec.
• 43:29
  It looks phenomenal.
• 43:31
  You wouldn't be able to tell that it wasn't that car that's in the show.
• 43:34
  We've got people that own like four or five of them.
• 43:37
  People like me, I own some of the dealer items, you know, like the
• 43:40
  jackets and stuff that they would have that has Aztec printed on them.
• 43:44
  I have a videotape, a VHS tape.
• 43:46
  It's kind of like they'd pop it in before they'd try to give you the sales pitch.
• 43:49
  And it would go over all the features of the car and everything.
• 43:52
  So that way they'd walk out knowing like everything about the car.
• 43:55
  It's like 20 minutes long.
• 43:57
  It's something that only existed in a dealership just to train the employees.
• 44:01
  I found somebody and I bought it for them.
• 44:03
  Shirts.
• 44:03
  I have ultra rare seating for the car interiors, bunch of stuff.
• 44:08
  I have almost every accessory except for the DVD player.
• 44:11
  I don't have five aspects though.
• 44:15
  So you mentioned the Jack John, did Pontiac have a lot of promotional things
• 44:18
  like that when they were pushing it?
• 44:19
  I have, uh, like booklets, magnets.
• 44:22
  They used to have like these whole set of little magnets that stick on
• 44:26
  the cars, um, in the dealerships.
• 44:28
  And it was like just pictures of the Aztec, pictures of like
• 44:31
  road signs, camping, trying to like appeal to those people.
• 44:35
  We want to find the guy that's got like 50 of them.
• 44:37
  You know, there's somebody out there that's collecting these things.
• 44:41
  One in every color, one in every year and every color, you know,
• 44:44
  there's somebody out there that's nerding out on these things.
• 44:47
  That said, how big is the club?
• 44:48
  It seems like you guys have a good presence on Facebook.
• 44:51
  You keep it under lock and key because obviously you don't people coming in
• 44:53
  trolling you and things like that.
• 44:55
  It's got to be a growing population, especially I'm sure there was a huge
• 44:59
  surge after and during breaking bad, but what's the community like for Aztec
• 45:04
  owners as you guys are part of that.
• 45:06
  We just try to help each other.
• 45:07
  Fix our cars, keep them running, keep them on the road.
• 45:09
  Generally, everybody's pretty helpful.
• 45:11
  Passions run high, especially when car theory gets involved.
• 45:15
  When there's problems, generally, everybody's really nice and respectful.
• 45:19
  We do keep it under lock and key.
• 45:21
  We have been trolled before.
• 45:23
  Like I said, I don't know a whole bunch about cars.
• 45:25
  I actually do like comic books and I'm a collector and I come from like
• 45:29
  the meme world and like the people who are trying to come in and troll us.
• 45:32
  So I review the people that come into the group, make sure
• 45:35
  that we're not getting trolled.
• 45:37
  Well, since you brought that up, John, I got, I got to ask because,
• 45:40
  you know, there's a lot of memes out there and some of them, they're good.
• 45:43
  Like, you got to say, like, they make you chuckle.
• 45:45
  I mean, there's ones for Volkswagen owners.
• 45:47
  There's ones for Honda guys, you know, there's ones for Subaru
• 45:50
  peoples and all that kind of stuff.
• 45:52
  What are some of your favorite Pontiac memes?
• 45:54
  Or you go, you know, you do crack a smile and go, all right, all right, you got me.
• 45:57
  That was fun.
• 45:58
  The best one that I ever saw, there was a meme that went around where it was
• 46:02
  like the astronauts and he's like looking at the planet and the astronaut behind
• 46:06
  the astronaut looking at the planet has a gun to his head, where the earth
• 46:09
  is it has like all the GMU bodies, the guys like wait, It was all the same.
• 46:14
  You've already, and he's like, always was,
• 46:20
  I mean, I've always considered the Montana to be the mother of the rendezvous and
• 46:24
  the Aztec because of that new body.
• 46:26
  It was the same chassis.
• 46:28
  You mentioned in your group that you guys just help each other out with
• 46:31
  knowledge on how to fix them and stuff.
• 46:33
  Is there any particular parts with the Aztec that are one off to the Aztec?
• 46:38
  It is hard to find.
• 46:39
  Or that key part that everybody's looking for.
• 46:43
  Usually coolers, tent packages.
• 46:45
  I find in like my repairs, it's not hard to get the parts just a little pricey.
• 46:50
  Sometimes wheel bearings are up to 124.
• 46:53
  The Aztec is unusually heavy.
• 46:56
  And so I think it chews through wheel bearings a little bit faster.
• 46:59
  I definitely chew through them on these Pennsylvania mountains pretty quick.
• 47:03
  And it gets expensive, but I don't have trouble finding like maintenance parts.
• 47:07
  Some really, really rare brush guards, tail light guards, and step bars.
• 47:13
  Those are incredibly hard to find.
• 47:15
  They were made by a brand called Manic very rare.
• 47:17
  So they were aftermarket, not factory parts, right?
• 47:20
  They're not factory parts.
• 47:21
  So speaking of aftermarket parts, is there a decent size
• 47:25
  aftermarket out there for the Aztec?
• 47:27
  Is there a variety for that or is it not between companies?
• 47:31
  There's nobody out there rebuilding the Aztec like the DeLorean is
• 47:35
  being, what's the company in Texas?
• 47:37
  It just, that's all they do.
• 47:39
  So the Aztec is a long way from something like that, but it might come someday.
• 47:43
  We can all hold out hope.
• 47:44
  Yes.
• 47:45
  If there was one area of aftermarket, you guys would like to see more for that.
• 47:51
  What sort of products would you like to see from the aftermarket community
• 47:54
  that would be beneficial to the Aztec?
• 47:57
  For me, it would be, uh, some type of simple dash repair system, whether it's
• 48:02
  a replacement cover, something that could fix that whole dash situation.
• 48:06
  The gauges, you know, some type of pop in, pop out gauge
• 48:10
  replacements that would be helpful.
• 48:12
  Some fragile plastic here and there.
• 48:14
  A good one that we need out there are the headlight.
• 48:17
  We need good replacement headlights.
• 48:18
  John might know the source for that.
• 48:20
  You know, those do tend to go dull and need to be buffed out quite often.
• 48:24
  And then at some point you'll just.
• 48:26
  you're going to run out of plastic to buff out.
• 48:28
  So I'm not aware of any aftermarket lenses that we can buy.
• 48:32
  Occasionally there are problems with the hatch, the spoiler in the back.
• 48:36
  There's a piece when you raise the hatch, there's a trim piece inside
• 48:41
  that that's just kind of where the It's kind of hard to explain, but it's
• 48:44
  just a trim piece that's inside the hatchback on the back of the spoiler.
• 48:48
  Once it goes, it goes, I don't know how you could fix that.
• 48:52
  Yeah, there's probably a small market out there for some aftermarket things
• 48:55
  that would be helpful to people.
• 48:57
  For a lot of us, the aftermarket is rock auto, right?
• 48:59
  It's greatest place to get parts in the world.
• 49:01
  You never know what you're going to find in their inventory.
• 49:03
  But that kind of brings up the question.
• 49:05
  What are some of the craziest mods you've seen other people in the club do?
• 49:09
  Are there any people racing Aztecs?
• 49:11
  Are there any people like slamming them, putting on bags?
• 49:14
  Like, do you guys do car shows for the Aztecs?
• 49:16
  Do you have get togethers within the club?
• 49:18
  There have been some Aztec get togethers.
• 49:21
  I haven't been able to go to one.
• 49:23
  I don't really see a lot of racing mods or anything like that.
• 49:27
  And the reason I brought up racing Aztecs, by the way, is I can't believe
• 49:30
  somebody hasn't run one in the 24 hours of lemons yet, but I'm going to
• 49:34
  dig into that a little bit further and see if, you know, somebody has, you
• 49:37
  know, campaign and Aztec in racing.
• 49:40
  I believe I saw somebody who ran one in some race or something.
• 49:44
  thing, but they had the tent attached.
• 49:45
  Oh yeah.
• 49:47
  Like they were forced.
• 49:48
  I saw that.
• 49:48
  I saw that the tent was attached in the race.
• 49:50
  Yeah, that was crazy.
• 49:51
  Well, you know, you take a whimsical design like that.
• 49:54
  You know, if you had somebody that was really great at custom work, they could
• 49:57
  do one of those crazy, uh, dual axles in the back, you And sink an engine
• 50:02
  in that big empty section in the back.
• 50:05
  Yeah, I could see that.
• 50:06
  Probably somebody will turn a rally into one of those and
• 50:09
  just Or a dragster, right?
• 50:11
  Put the body on top of a drag car and then go for it.
• 50:15
  They've done that with school buses and stuff.
• 50:17
  It'd be pretty cool, you know?
• 50:18
  Yeah, it's going to happen.
• 50:19
  Fastest Aztec on the planet, you know?
• 50:23
  Didn't one of the head guys at GM have like a super customized Aztec?
• 50:27
  The thing looked tough.
• 50:28
  I've seen some renderings where they added additional nostrils and wide body kits.
• 50:32
  There's all sorts of people that are like put out these,
• 50:34
  you know, highly photoshopped.
• 50:36
  What they think the Aztec could have been had they kept going with it.
• 50:39
  And I think they're pretty cool.
• 50:41
  They're pretty mean.
• 50:41
  I mean, obviously they're lowered big wheels, you know, all that kind of stuff.
• 50:45
  And I can see the potential there, right?
• 50:46
  If you dress it up a little bit and you add some of the modern things that we're
• 50:51
  accustomed to on, like you were saying with the C7 Corvette, some of those, you
• 50:54
  know, more sporty touches, I could see.
• 50:57
  The Aztec being appealing to a modern crowd outside of the current generation
• 51:02
  of style and cues that are out there.
• 51:04
  You know, the culture of the group, I would call it a lot of people,
• 51:08
  like this is their first collector car that are in this Facebook group.
• 51:13
  They're trying to, uh, accumulate parts.
• 51:15
  So if I go to the junkyard.
• 51:18
  I'll put some photos on there of what I have.
• 51:20
  And then we just work out some kind of financial transaction and I'll
• 51:23
  mail the parts or what everybody's, everybody's real helpful to each other.
• 51:27
  One of the things that kind of reaches out to me, that's kind of
• 51:29
  inspirational every now and then, I'm sure John has seen it, some kid from
• 51:33
  another country whose English is just challenged will practice for a long
• 51:38
  time, probably to put out this sentence.
• 51:40
  And he lives in wherever on the planet.
• 51:43
  And it's just his dream to own an Aztec, proud to be a member of the club.
• 51:48
  And these are real sincere guys who want to be a part of
• 51:51
  something unusual like this.
• 51:53
  There's a car club for everybody, right?
• 51:56
  Were the Aztecs sold overseas?
• 51:58
  Actually, I do have some stats right here for that.
• 52:01
  Only in 2005, the Aztec was sold in Mexico.
• 52:05
  Now, they were made in Mexico, but 90 were sold in Mexico in 2005.
• 52:10
  I wonder what they called them.
• 52:11
  Yeah, that's a good question.
• 52:12
  I don't know.
• 52:14
  Other than that, it looks like they were all sold in the US.
• 52:16
  I got to say though, this is kind of a philosophical side of it all.
• 52:20
  I don't think it's just that ugly of a car.
• 52:23
  If you Google worst cars ever made, the Aztec is always in that list, but
• 52:28
  I really don't know why, you know, I had a Ford Tempo and let me tell you,
• 52:31
  that was the worst car ever made.
• 52:34
  Well, you had the limpo.
• 52:35
  I had the limpo.
• 52:36
  That's pretty awesome.
• 52:37
  It's really hard to, you know, top that, so.
• 52:40
  I mean, so it's funny, as we talked about the tempo on another episode,
• 52:43
  I'm just waiting for the day that somebody comes on this show and was
• 52:46
  like, yeah, and I owned an Aztec.
• 52:48
  So what do you, what do you want to say about that?
• 52:51
  So that leads us into the next question.
• 52:53
  What do you think is the ugliest car of all time, vehicle,
• 52:58
  ugliest vehicle of all time?
• 52:59
  The Aztec is pretty damn clever.
• 53:03
  to have one.
• 53:07
  Um, he's a b that's why he's not telli drive one off a cliff.
• 53:15
  And ugliest car ever made.
• 53:17
  You You know, I look at some of these cars today, like the Nissan Juke, what,
• 53:23
  that is an ugly car that takes the place of any ugly car on those lists.
• 53:29
  And, you know, there's other cars out there that are just ugly, but you know,
• 53:31
  in every generation of cars, there's all this finger pointing that happens
• 53:35
  from car enthusiasts and people who write articles kind of just tag onto it.
• 53:39
  If there's something that's just a little non traditional out
• 53:42
  there, they just go after it.
• 53:44
  And then it's a snowball effect.
• 53:45
  And then every car writer everywhere has to have his article about that.
• 53:49
  I think that's really what happened to the Aztec as much as anything.
• 53:52
  Now, it's funny you mentioned that because, you know, we put together
• 53:55
  something called the uncool wall.
• 53:57
  We've done a couple of what should I buy episodes of revolving
• 54:00
  around, you know, ugly cars and uncool cars and things like that.
• 54:03
  And there's some real diamonds in the rough there, right?
• 54:06
  Things that were not cool when they were introduced are cool now.
• 54:10
  Let's take the Aztec into consideration.
• 54:12
  It's funny you say that because we ask people a lot on this
• 54:16
  show as part of our pit stop.
• 54:17
  What's the ugliest car of all time?
• 54:19
  And I kid you not.
• 54:20
  I mean, the Aztec comes up more often than any other car, much like
• 54:24
  on the other side of the equation.
• 54:25
  What's the most beautiful car?
• 54:26
  You hear the E type Jag, you know, things like that all the time.
• 54:29
  In your guy's opinion, I'm going to ask you both this.
• 54:32
  Let's put the Aztec away.
• 54:33
  What's the ugliest car of all time?
• 54:35
  PT Cruiser.
• 54:39
  I'm going to have to agree with John.
• 54:41
  A unanimous vote right there.
• 54:43
  I laugh and I expected it 100 percent and I'm glad you guys said that because
• 54:48
  I think that is right next in line.
• 54:50
  Europe, it's the Fiat Multipla and then you kind of go down from there.
• 54:53
  There's some awful looking cars out there.
• 54:55
  But I want to ask you guys, let's take the Aztec off the
• 54:57
  table, keeping things neutral.
• 54:59
  What is the sexiest car of all time?
• 55:02
  Oh, wow.
• 55:04
  I've had two BMWs.
• 55:05
  I absolutely loved them.
• 55:07
  1994 318 base model.
• 55:09
  Probably my favorite car of all time.
• 55:11
  Got told some lady running out of control, hit me and told that I
• 55:15
  just got rid of a 2005 three series.
• 55:18
  I loved it, but it just wore out.
• 55:21
  It does have a similarity to the Aztec.
• 55:23
  That's the only similarity between the BMW three series and the Aztec is that
• 55:27
  the tolerances are real low on the cooling system, you know, that's, that's it.
• 55:32
  For me, for, uh, I guess, everyday drivers, it would probably be the BMW.
• 55:37
  I always wanted to have a 71 Plymouth Superbird.
• 55:39
  Oh yeah, sure.
• 55:40
  Sure.
• 55:40
  That's a really good answer.
• 55:42
  I like that.
• 55:43
  It is a good answer.
• 55:44
  We can't agree on what cars you should buy, but I think we can all agree
• 55:48
  on what car you should not know.
• 55:50
  What car didn't make this list?
• 55:52
  Pontiac.
• 55:53
  That's a hundred percent.
• 55:55
  I'm going to get one just to be cool.
• 55:57
  Yeah.
• 55:58
  It's going to be a collector breaking the ad.
• 56:01
  I think change the profile of that car.
• 56:03
  I don't know.
• 56:08
  Let's kind of switch gears a little bit and talk about some
• 56:11
  of the future things, right?
• 56:12
  If we could go back in time, you know, if we could do things over again, are you all
• 56:16
  saddened by, or how do you feel about GM's decision to sunset Pontiac as a brand?
• 56:20
  It was bad.
• 56:21
  You know, we all just wish it came back or that one of the cars
• 56:24
  becomes so popular that they're forced to bring it back with GM.
• 56:28
  I don't think it'll ever happen.
• 56:29
  I never had owned a Pontiac before.
• 56:31
  So, um, I don't know.
• 56:32
  I think it ran its course, was no longer profitable for whatever reason.
• 56:37
  You know, that whole downhill spiral that started around what?
• 56:40
  2008, 2009, when you know the economy tanked and the bailouts.
• 56:45
  I don't think Ford got the bailout, but everybody else did and Saturn went down.
• 56:50
  I don't know.
• 56:50
  I think it had lived its life, just time to let it go.
• 56:53
  Unless you have all these pontiacs on the lots that aren't selling and
• 56:56
  two years later, you know, they're just trying to get rid of them.
• 56:59
  So.
• 56:59
  In my opinion, it was probably best just to go ahead and kill it off.
• 57:02
  Would be great if they could bring it back because of demand, but I don't know.
• 57:05
  I think it's probably gone.
• 57:07
  So, John, with you being passionate about Pontiacs, if you could bring back
• 57:11
  one Pontiac or even a Holden, right, from Australia, which would it be?
• 57:15
  Would it be the Firebird, the Tempest, the GTO, the G8, the
• 57:18
  Aztec, or maybe something else?
• 57:20
  You probably know I'm going to say the Aztec taking that off the table.
• 57:24
  I really liked the Pontiac Grand Prix and the G sixes where I live.
• 57:28
  We've got two really, really nice G sixes around the corner.
• 57:32
  And every day I walk my dog and I look at those cars, wish there
• 57:36
  was a for sale sign on them.
• 57:37
  They got that hard body convertible one.
• 57:40
  Definitely the 98 to two WS six trans am when they brought it back out as
• 57:45
  It's an awesome looking car and one of my favorite versions of the Trans
• 57:49
  Am other than the earlier generations.
• 57:51
  Yeah.
• 57:51
  That's a nice car.
• 57:52
  It looks slick, slick car.
• 57:54
  So what about you, Paul?
• 57:55
  If you could bring back a Pontiac or a Holden, what would it be?
• 57:58
  It'd probably be the GTO.
• 58:00
  You know, I was a little kid during the muscle car days, you know, I've
• 58:03
  never owned one of those muscle cars.
• 58:05
  Boy, I really liked them.
• 58:07
  I just remember the large motors, the street racing that
• 58:10
  went on in my neighborhood.
• 58:12
  And there was just something about the GTO that was just kind of
• 58:15
  invincible, you know, the beast shows up kind of that's America, you know,
• 58:19
  America in a car to me is the GTO.
• 58:22
  So when you mentioned like when the GTO judge came out, like the
• 58:25
  Hurst shifter and things like that, those were key things that.
• 58:30
  Were solely with Pontiac.
• 58:32
  They weren't across the board with the rest of the GMs.
• 58:35
  If we look at GM and Pontiac specifically, obviously there's some
• 58:37
  famous names associated with it.
• 58:39
  People like Bunky Knudsen or John Z.
• 58:42
  DeLorean.
• 58:42
  You mentioned DeLorean earlier.
• 58:44
  He's famous for birthing the GTO from the Tempest.
• 58:47
  DeLorean was still alive when the Aztec was produced.
• 58:52
  He died in 2005 at the tail end of the Aztec line.
• 58:55
  You guys, as Aztec experts, did DeLorean ever make a sound?
• 59:00
  about his thoughts on GM at that time period, especially about
• 59:04
  Pontiac, you know, part of his namesake of where things were going.
• 59:07
  You know, he had his opinions in the seventies when he co wrote on
• 59:11
  a clear day, you can see GM, which was all about his exit from GM and
• 59:14
  things like that to go start DeLorean.
• 59:17
  But what were his thoughts?
• 59:18
  If there were any, was he quoted as saying anything during that time?
• 59:22
  You know, I am not too sure about that.
• 59:24
  Something to put on the message boards, right?
• 59:26
  Something to dig into.
• 59:27
  If we could bring back a Pontiac product today, and it was the Aztec, if the
• 59:32
  Aztec came back as an EV, even leaving it in its original state and just making
• 59:38
  the Aztec an EV, knowing what we know today, more people are into camping
• 59:42
  and outdoors and all the work that Subaru has done to kind of change the
• 59:45
  latitude there in the automotive market.
• 59:47
  Do you think people would be more accepting of the Aztec?
• 59:50
  If it was an EV and presented today, rather than 20 years ago, I think so.
• 59:56
  And I'll tell you why, because if you look at any modern SUV now,
• 1:00:00
  man, they look awfully similar.
• 1:00:02
  Funny story about that.
• 1:00:03
  I work third shift and sometimes I stay up longer than I should.
• 1:00:06
  And one night I was driving, I was falling asleep at the wheel and I rolled over onto
• 1:00:10
  this median, heard a big bump, woke me up.
• 1:00:13
  So I pulled over into a McDonald's, checked out my wheels, everything
• 1:00:16
  looked good, went on my merry way.
• 1:00:18
  Two days later, cop shows up at my house.
• 1:00:21
  He says that my car went into the McDonald's parking lot, rammed into
• 1:00:25
  a sign that hit a lady's car, and then the car rammed up the sign.
• 1:00:30
  And he's looking at my car and there's like no damage on it.
• 1:00:33
  Forces me to call this other cop, and this eventually admits to
• 1:00:37
  mistaking my car for a Honda CRV.
• 1:00:40
  Interesting.
• 1:00:40
  Yeah, just because I pulled over like 10 minutes before this happened and looked at
• 1:00:45
  my wheel, he thought that I had done this.
• 1:00:47
  He had to apologize to me and everything said, Oh man,
• 1:00:49
  this, you wouldn't believe it.
• 1:00:51
  This SRV, it looks just like your car.
• 1:00:53
  It's got the back slanted window and everything.
• 1:00:57
  You know, in my mind, I thought you're ridiculous.
• 1:00:59
  You get to looking at them and you get to seeing the features.
• 1:01:02
  Like I think that GMC XUV, they have a tent now.
• 1:01:06
  Somebody just posted that on our group.
• 1:01:08
  Something that wasn't popular back then, but you're definitely seeing a lot more,
• 1:01:13
  I think, inspiration from the Aztec now.
• 1:01:15
  You know, as far as design goes, cars, they go through these cycles.
• 1:01:18
  You've got boxy, round, angular, or whimsical.
• 1:01:23
  You know, those are the four classifications of car designs that
• 1:01:25
  I've noticed through the years.
• 1:01:26
  The angular parts of the design of the Aztec just came out of time when
• 1:01:30
  there were not a lot of angular cars.
• 1:01:32
  However, now there are more angles in car designs, but I think if it were an EV,
• 1:01:39
  I'll grit my teeth here, but promoted as a green vehicle, it's going to be good for
• 1:01:43
  the environment and that type of thing.
• 1:01:45
  And if they included this outdoors concept, the tent, the versatility of it.
• 1:01:50
  Marketed a little stronger with some of those features like the
• 1:01:53
  tailgate, the rear controls.
• 1:01:56
  I don't really remember a lot of that being marketed, but yeah, I could see,
• 1:01:59
  I could see it as an EV making a hit and because it is different than other EVs.
• 1:02:05
  And I think you hit on something really, really important.
• 1:02:07
  about that angular design.
• 1:02:09
  There are some cars that I look at now and it's like, why did
• 1:02:12
  you put the door handle there?
• 1:02:14
  What's up with this teeny little pennant window in the back that when
• 1:02:18
  the Aztec was introduced, we all gasped, went, Oh, what have they done?
• 1:02:22
  And now it's become super acceptable to have all these
• 1:02:25
  strange things that in my mind.
• 1:02:28
  don't make sense to even produce.
• 1:02:29
  It's like, how much does it cost to make that tiny triangular eight by
• 1:02:34
  eight piece of glass that you could have just made metal and kind of change
• 1:02:37
  the shape of the door or whatever.
• 1:02:39
  Some of these things just don't make sense.
• 1:02:40
  You know, maybe just, maybe like we said at the beginning, the Aztec
• 1:02:44
  was actually ahead of its time.
• 1:02:47
  And like one of you guys was saying.
• 1:02:48
  It was the car of the future, but the future wasn't then it's now.
• 1:02:53
  Yeah.
• 1:02:54
  But based on how we've enjoyed these, if I were doing it again, I would not
• 1:02:58
  have waited until my son said, Hey, have you seen the TV show breaking bad?
• 1:03:02
  You know, about this Pontiac Aztec.
• 1:03:04
  I probably would have gotten one a long time ago.
• 1:03:06
  Eric was mentioning earlier how one of the things we've had episodes
• 1:03:09
  say, you know, what would I buy?
• 1:03:11
  So if an individual is looking for a track car, we get a panel together of
• 1:03:15
  people throw out suggestions of vehicles.
• 1:03:17
  I'm going to twist that question a little bit.
• 1:03:18
  Why should I buy an Aztec?
• 1:03:21
  I guess it just depends on what you need out of it.
• 1:03:24
  Me, I used to be a very small car person.
• 1:03:27
  I like to be close to the road.
• 1:03:29
  I actually used to drive a 2013 Hyundai Elantra.
• 1:03:32
  Man, I loved how tiny that thing was.
• 1:03:35
  I just bought a house.
• 1:03:36
  It's a fixer upper, so I've been needing to haul tools,
• 1:03:40
  drywall, all this sort of stuff.
• 1:03:42
  And no way I could ever do it in a sedan.
• 1:03:44
  No way.
• 1:03:45
  As I said before, camping has never been better.
• 1:03:48
  With the Aztec and when you're camping in it, you don't wake up with that dew
• 1:03:51
  all over you, or all over your blankets.
• 1:03:53
  I love it.
• 1:03:54
  It's great for drive ins, it's great for festivals, it's great for the beach.
• 1:03:58
  I love it.
• 1:03:59
  It's a Swiss Army knife if you think about it, right?
• 1:04:01
  Yeah, yeah, really it is.
• 1:04:02
  The most versatile vehicle on the planet.
• 1:04:05
  Well, why should I buy one?
• 1:04:06
  Good question.
• 1:04:07
  John said, depends on what you need or what you're looking for.
• 1:04:10
  I think it's been great with kids.
• 1:04:12
  Been great for trips that we've taken now.
• 1:04:15
  Most of mine have been driven by my kids.
• 1:04:17
  So I'm looking forward to reclaiming the one that I bought for myself.
• 1:04:20
  You know, you could buy it as a conversation piece because wherever you
• 1:04:23
  go, people are going to ask you about it.
• 1:04:26
  I'll go down the road and kids will point, parents will look over at the car.
• 1:04:29
  Sometimes there's a thumbs up.
• 1:04:31
  Sometimes there's laughter, you know, that type of thing.
• 1:04:33
  So if you're looking for a vehicle that just blends in, this is not
• 1:04:36
  the car for you, probably one of the top reasons to buy one would
• 1:04:40
  be to own an intriguing piece of history that is still maintainable
• 1:04:45
  with plenty of parts out there.
• 1:04:47
  New old stock aftermarket parts, as well as plenty of junkyard parts.
• 1:04:53
  For the family thing with my sons, it's been really good.
• 1:04:56
  We've enjoyed it and the repairs we've done, which haven't been
• 1:04:59
  many, we've done them together, features that we fixed on the inside.
• 1:05:03
  We've done those things together.
• 1:05:05
  So maybe just family togetherness with your kids would be my reason.
• 1:05:08
  Paul, to your point, I bet if you're the only Aztec out of cars and coffee.
• 1:05:13
  You're going to be a really popular guy, something to consider as well.
• 1:05:16
  I mean, people show up with their fancy Porsches and their Ferraris.
• 1:05:19
  You show up with an Aztec.
• 1:05:20
  I guarantee you're going to have a crowd.
• 1:05:23
  I need to do that.
• 1:05:25
  That's a great idea.
• 1:05:26
  We've had some people in our group actually win awards at car shows
• 1:05:29
  just because they've had the tent package and stuff for being so unique.
• 1:05:33
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:05:35
  Gentlemen, any shout outs, promotions, or anything else you'd
• 1:05:38
  like to share, maybe about the Aztec club before we close out here?
• 1:05:42
  We're the um, Pontiac Aztec Band Club, and we're on Facebook,
• 1:05:46
  and if you want an Aztec or need help with your Aztec, join us.
• 1:05:50
  You just gotta answer a couple quick questions, and then you're in.
• 1:05:53
  I would agree with John.
• 1:05:54
  It's a nice group of people.
• 1:05:55
  Everybody's very helpful.
• 1:05:57
  People are very encouraging to each other.
• 1:05:59
  We've got a lot of young people on the site, and for any car enthusiasts
• 1:06:03
  that are listening to this, I really want to encourage you to get young
• 1:06:06
  people excited about our hobby, because it can fade away quickly.
• 1:06:10
  Hobbies like this are not cheap, and young people need that entry
• 1:06:14
  level car, vehicle, truck, whatever.
• 1:06:17
  That's affordable for them and they need older people that have
• 1:06:20
  experience to encourage them or the hobby is going to go away.
• 1:06:23
  I read an article in Hemmings magazine that said it was an appeal to car
• 1:06:28
  enthusiasts, these older guys that just said, guys, we've got to start
• 1:06:31
  embracing some of the older Japanese cars.
• 1:06:34
  You know, we haven't done that, but this is what the younger people
• 1:06:37
  like and they can afford to fix up.
• 1:06:39
  So I just want to throw that out as an encouragement to all of
• 1:06:42
  our car enthusiasts to encourage young people to get involved.
• 1:06:46
  On some entry level vehicle that is easy to work on and easy to get
• 1:06:50
  aftermarket parts for and affordable.
• 1:06:52
  A big thing that's become more common is like cars and coffee.
• 1:06:55
  Sure, you're not racing or anything, but it's just something you go out
• 1:06:57
  and hang out and look at other cars.
• 1:06:59
  If we can get the youth involved in that, it'll allow the whole car enthusiasm
• 1:07:03
  to survive because with EVs coming and stuff like that, it's difficult.
• 1:07:07
  I hate to say it, but it feels like it's a dying thing out there.
• 1:07:11
  I read one time an article that said that the mindset that used to be
• 1:07:15
  caught up in engine rebuilds and hot rods, that's the same minds that has
• 1:07:19
  transferred over to computers today.
• 1:07:21
  And I'd like to pull some of those video game guys and those computer
• 1:07:24
  games guys out, you know, have one of those times where you go to a car
• 1:07:28
  show and you see what's going on.
• 1:07:30
  And you look at the art and the skill and the enthusiasm that's behind,
• 1:07:34
  you know, these great museum pieces that are still drivable and that
• 1:07:38
  people have taken the time to restore.
• 1:07:40
  I want to say this one last thing, too.
• 1:07:42
  We got to remember Tom Peters.
• 1:07:44
  I mean, this guy, he designed this car.
• 1:07:47
  Which was considered by many to be a failure and to be an ugly car.
• 1:07:51
  And, and then he designed the Corvette C7 and I don't know how that happened.
• 1:07:56
  I mean, did Corvette say, Hey, let's take the ugliest car of all time.
• 1:07:59
  Let's take the designer of the worst car of all time.
• 1:08:01
  And then let's have him design the new Corvette.
• 1:08:04
  I don't know how that conversation happened, but clearly when he designed the
• 1:08:08
  Corvette and his team worked on the C7.
• 1:08:11
  They hit the market at the right time.
• 1:08:14
  You know, there's the old saying, if at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
• 1:08:18
  So everybody out there aspiring car designers, if your car design,
• 1:08:21
  just not getting a lot of thumbs up with your peers, keep working on it
• 1:08:25
  because you might hit gold one day.
• 1:08:26
  That is absolutely true.
• 1:08:28
  And you know what guys with your help, maybe we could get Tom Peters on here
• 1:08:32
  and ask him a, what the heck was he thinking, how he made that journey
• 1:08:37
  from the Aztec to the C7 Corvette.
• 1:08:40
  Stay tuned for that.
• 1:08:41
  Right?
• 1:08:42
  Yeah.
• 1:08:43
  I definitely invite us for that.
• 1:08:44
  And to your point from before, Paul, Don Wieberg, who we work with over
• 1:08:49
  at Garage Style Magazine mentioned on his episode, resonating exactly with
• 1:08:53
  what you were saying is a lot of the older car enthusiasts need to embrace
• 1:08:58
  some of these odd cars, some of these entry level cars, and stop telling
• 1:09:02
  the younger enthusiasts, you don't want to deal with that piece of junk.
• 1:09:05
  What you need to go buy is a 911, you know, or whatever,
• 1:09:08
  or Camaro, or something.
• 1:09:09
  No, embrace these folks because as we talk about on this show and why we exist is to
• 1:09:15
  spread that enthusiasm to remind people that the car world is really, really big.
• 1:09:20
  And that if we bring more people into the fold and we embrace the oddities
• 1:09:24
  like the Aztec that car culture will continue to thrive, even as
• 1:09:30
  it's changing around us every day.
• 1:09:32
  Well, to quote Paul, who quoted very eloquently Tom Peters, the
• 1:09:37
  chief designer of the Aztec during its 1999 concept debut, he said,
• 1:09:42
  We wanted to do a bold in your face vehicle that wasn't for everybody.
• 1:09:47
  And to that I say, Touche, Tom.
• 1:09:50
  Touche.
• 1:09:50
  He accomplished it.
• 1:09:51
  Yeah.
• 1:09:51
  So to learn more about the Pontiac Aztec, searching Google yields plenty of
• 1:09:56
  Pontiac and Aztec related clubs, forums, and technical specs and memes to boot,
• 1:10:02
  but for the best community experience.
• 1:10:04
  Please be sure to reach out to the folks like John and Paul and the
• 1:10:08
  team at the Pontiac Aztec owners club on Facebook to get yourself
• 1:10:13
  involved in that growing community.
• 1:10:16
  So I can't thank you both enough for coming on the show and sharing
• 1:10:19
  your corner of the automotive world with us and with our listeners.
• 1:10:23
  As many of the folks know, you know, jokes aside, this episode has been a long
• 1:10:27
  time coming and we really do appreciate you guys spending your evening with us
• 1:10:31
  and talking to us about the vehicles that you are most passionate about.
• 1:10:35
  No problem.
• 1:10:36
  Thanks for having us.
• 1:10:37
  Thanks, Eric.
• 1:10:37
  Thanks, Dan.
• 1:10:38
  Enjoyed talking to you, John.
• 1:10:39
  It was great to see you guys finally.
• 1:10:41
  Gosh, we're petrol heads, right?
• 1:10:43
  Yeah, just least favorite in general.
• 1:10:45
  One of my roommates in college had an Aztec, or his girlfriend did, his now
• 1:10:48
  wife, and I think they still have it.
• 1:10:51
  It's got like 400, 000 miles, the tent still works.
• 1:10:54
  Well, if you don't look at it, it was wonderful, but so's the Porsche 928.
• 1:10:58
  Or, uh, that Lamborghini SUV, you know?
• 1:11:02
  The Urus.
• 1:11:03
  The Urus, interesting.
• 1:11:04
  The Urus is like the best looking Aztec.
• 1:11:06
  Like, they're really, they're not bad at some angles.
• 1:11:10
  Unfortunately, it doesn't look as good as an Aztec.
• 1:11:12
  It is better looking than the Botox looking, lipid injected Tesla front end.
• 1:11:21
  Oh yeah, because I'm not classically trained, I don't have
• 1:11:24
  to pretend to be poetic about every single thing that's made.
• 1:11:27
  I don't have to come up with these lies about, oh, whose key lines are from?
• 1:11:31
  Because it's Heisenberg, it's Heisenberg's part, so.
• 1:11:34
  Oh, I mean a lot of people like to pick on the poor Aztec from Pontiac,
• 1:11:38
  but I think If you know anybody that owns an Aztec, they love them.
• 1:11:43
  That's very true.
• 1:11:44
  That's a very true statement.
• 1:12:02
  If you like what you've heard and want to learn more about GTM,
• 1:12:05
  be sure to check us out on www.
• 1:12:07
  gtmotorsports.
• 1:12:09
  org.
• 1:12:09
  You can also find us on Motorsports.
• 1:12:13
  Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, you can call
• 1:12:17
  or text us at 202 630 1770, or send us an email at crewchief at gtmotorsports.
• 1:12:24
  org.
• 1:12:25
  We'd love to hear from you.
• 1:12:27
  Hey everybody, Crew Chief Eric here.
• 1:12:29
  We really hope you enjoyed this episode of BreakFix, and we wanted
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