Latest / NHA Today Podcast / Replay Eat to live the Plant Based Way | Ep. 158

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Replay Eat to live the Plant Based Way | Ep. 158 · NHA Today Podcast

0:00
Welcome to the Health Science Podcast, sponsored by the
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National Health Association.
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I'm Dr. Frank Tino, your host, and today I'm absolutely delighted to
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have as my guest, Dr. Joel Ferman.
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Uh, Dr. Furman is a board certified family physician, uh, internationally
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recognized as an expert in nutrition and natural healthcare.
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He's a prolific author, written a about 12 books that I'm aware of, and,
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uh, seven of these have been on the, uh, New York Times Bestseller list,
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which is amazing, including Eat to Live, the End of Dieting, the End of
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Diabetes, super Immunity, and others.
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He's the director of the nutritional, uh, research Foundation, and, uh,
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he is also, uh, the founder and, uh.
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And director of the Eat to Live retreat in San Diego.
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Uh, a residential retreat helping people deal with chronic
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disease and food addiction.
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So welcome, Joel.
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It's such a great, it's such a pleasure to be with you, to see you.
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Welcome to the Health Science Podcast, brought to you by the
0:58
National Health Association.
1:01
The oldest organization in the world championing the extraordinary benefits
1:06
of a whole plant food, diet, and healthy lifestyle, as well as water only fasting.
1:12
We believe that health results from healthful living and focus
1:16
on evidence-based science that promotes the health of you and your
1:19
loved ones, as well as the health of all animals and the environment.
1:24
We feature experts from a cross section of disciplines within the plant, nutrition,
1:29
vegan, psychological, environmental, and animal compassion sectors.
1:34
I'm your host, Dr. Frank Sino, the Nhas Director of Health Education.
1:42
Thanks, Frank.
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Always.
1:43
How are you?
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How are things?
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How are things doing really good and enjoying living in California?
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You know, it must have been, it, it must be amazing.
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'cause I know when you set out to write and do the things that you've done,
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you don't, you don't have any idea of what kind of impact that's gonna have.
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And to see the millions of people, truly millions that have been affected by the
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work you've done, must be so gratifying, uh, on, on your personal journey.
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Thanks for that, Frank.
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Yeah, you're right.
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It was a, a lot of, um, ex a lot of hours and hours and hours and hours of work.
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But you're right, I never thought I'd reach so many people and have so many
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opportunity to affect so many lives.
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It's been incredibly gratifying.
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It's amazing.
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You know, you know, the National Health Association for many of our viewers
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may not know that at one point it was the American Natural Hygiene Society.
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And in many ways their, their, you know, their philosophy and work,
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which was really all about health by healthful living and understanding the
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impact of, uh, you know, the biological requirements of life and health
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and activity and whole food, plant nutrition and so on are, are in many
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ways, even the forerunner two, a lot of what we now call lifestyle medicine.
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So it, you know, people don't know that this is a tremendous foundation.
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In your personal journey, and I'd like to get into it just a little bit.
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I know your father was a very much an ardent supporter of one of the
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founding fathers of the hygiene movement, Dr. Herbert Shelton.
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So you were exposed to this kind of hygienic mentality and
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philosophy from your childhood.
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So yes.
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How, how, how did that exposure, um, motivate your desire to move into.
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The kind of healthcare that you did and even going into medical school, and how
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did it inform some of what you eventually wound up doing in your own life?
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It's been the primary factor that made me decide to go to medical school.
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In other words, I was a competitive figure skater, and you may know
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I was second in the United States in pair skating with my sister and
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third in the world at one point.
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But, um, I had a major injury I couldn't walk for over a year.
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That ended kind of like, um, you know.
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Derailed my Olympic 1976 Olympic opportunity.
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Um, but so at that point I went into my family's shoe business, but I knew
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after a while I realized it wasn't really what I was passionate about.
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What I was most passionate about was, um, the, the fact that nutrition
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was so powerful to be able to affect people's lifestyle, and I
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decided to go to medical school.
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Um, when I was in my late twenties already with the specific intent
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to be a physician specializing in nutrition, but I didn't, I hadn't.
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What derailed me or what what Um, well, I didn't go to medical
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school when I was younger.
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Also was I didn't take the pre-med courses when I was going to college.
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And in my ice skating career as a competitive figure skater, I didn't
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take any pre-medical requirements.
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I didn't have sciences, the math, the biology, the physics, the biochemistry.
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I had nothing.
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I was economics and business at that point.
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So I had to go back to the, so when I decided at the age of like 26, 27,
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that, you know, being in my family's shoe business wasn't for me, and I have
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more, um, personal satisfaction and passion about a career in nutrition, I
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had to go back to Columbia and take the postgraduate pre-med program and uh, and
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do my whole postgraduate my undergraduate requirements for medical school.
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Then take the epat, then go to medical school at the age of 29.
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Yeah, Joel, I mean, your motivation was of course this tremendous interest
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in nutrition, and you've just said that, but you know, medical schools
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are woefully inadequate in how they educate that component of lifestyle.
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So was that a problem for you when you entered the medical
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system, or were you just happy to.
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Now learn about the body and really get involved with really understanding
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as much of that as possible.
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And then with the idea that you would then bring this nutritional component
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into your own private work and practice.
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Um, yes, both those things are true, what you just said, Frank.
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In other words, I learned a lot in medical school.
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Tremendously supported the tenets of natural hygiene.
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And what I thought, you know, what I thought was true?
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The first week in medical school, they taught us that all drugs are
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toxic and they work by interfering or blocking natural body actions.
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And they also discussed, and we read in the pathology books, the healing
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power of the body and the paling power of the inflammatory response.
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If I can quote.
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Robinson Coran, the textbook that medical students all read major text.
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It says The inflammatory response is closely intertwined with the process
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of repair and serves to destroy wall off, dilute or otherwise, remove the
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injurious agent and sets into motion a series of events that attempts to
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heal and reconstitute damaged tissue.
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So I'm just getting a quote from a medical textbook.
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So a lot of the basic biology pathology.
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And physiology that we learn in medical school supports what
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I wanted to do with my career.
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And one of the weaknesses of the alternative medicine community, the
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lifestyle medicine community and conventional doctors, is they don't
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have this foundation to understand that sometimes with healing, you have to have
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that inflammation has positive effects on the body and the symptoms of disease.
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Can be moving the body in the right direction to enable us towards
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afford people a recovery like with an asthmatic, for example.
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I may have to wean them off their beta agonists and even increase the steroids
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temporarily to keep them in control and then slowly cut down their steroids.
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'cause the beta agonists, even though they relieve symptoms quickly, they put
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more inflammatory substance in the lung.
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They don't see, people don't see that the in the asthma attack itself.
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Has right directed functions to remove toxic waste from the body.
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And that even though it could cause death and it can cause breathing to stop,
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the cells don't know that the cells are just kind of trying to get inflammation
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generated to get rid of waste.
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So we gradually reduce the steroids as we then improve great nutrition.
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And as we get to the point where symptoms start to develop and we're low enough
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on the steroids, we could nutrition, then we could maybe institute a. A fast
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or something, but in other, in other ca in other words, um, we have more in
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our toolbox, whether it's suppression of headaches or whether it's, um,
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other symptoms, restless leg syndrome or other, other types of problems.
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People have spasm, you know, la um.
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Cramps, whatever it is.
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Um, digestive diarrhea.
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In other words, most physicians don't have the, the enough understanding of
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the, um, healing power of the body and how kind of symptoms can be utilized to
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aid us in the healing process and not just try to suppress symptoms at all costs.
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Well that was the, that's the philosophical disconnect.
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'cause as you well know, aside from, let's say life-saving surgical
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procedures or remarkable yeoman efforts in emergency care, much of
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medicine is disease care management.
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It's not about actual providing healthcare.
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So you already have that.
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That underlying philosophy to realize that it's not about suppressing symptoms
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or holding hands or giving medication that tries to suppress something
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and manage an an ongoing process.
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You have a sense, and this is important that we now know
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that many of these problems.
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Uh, whether it's, you know, high blood pressure or uh, or diabetes or heart
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disease, are not only preventable, but they're absolutely reversible.
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So for many physicians, they don't have that mentality.
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The idea is that once you have these problems, you'll never recover.
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So let me just manage this problem, rather doing something that may
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in fact get at the cause of this problem and actually reverse it.
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So it's, and the medications of course, make things worse because obviously the
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drugs, let's just say for migraines, eski y gain, vanquish, et furin ide,
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whose active ingredients are barbiturate, narcotics, and caffeine set people up
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for chronic headaches the rest of their life because you're doing something
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to suppress the detox process instead of, so we have so many, as, you know,
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hundreds, maybe a thousand people who've got rid of chronic migraines and
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people recover from autoimmune diseases.
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It's the same thing.
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It's That's right.
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They were talking about, um, there's a lack in understanding how the body
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works and some, and also that defects food addiction and people ability to,
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to follow a diet because they, they think that fatigue, uh, they eat for,
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to release, to keep their energy up.
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And they don't realize that fatigue is a detox process from their lack
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of nutrients in their diet and from their, and the excessive amounts of
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advanced glycation end products and reactive oxygen species when they
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don't eat a meal and they go into the phase of digestion where they're not.
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Whether or not eating, 'cause eating is suppressing detox, right?
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When you, you are in the catabolic phase of the metabolic
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cycle of the digestive cycle.
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When you're not, when, when you're not digesting anymore is when the body has
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enhanced detoxification from the liver.
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And so that when people, um, finish digesting the meal or no more calories
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are coming in and detoxification is enhanced and they feel so shaky
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and weak and fatigue, they gotta eat more to keep their energy up.
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And they think that fatigue is, they think fatigue is hunger.
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And headaches and cramping is hunger.
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So they, so they really are food addicts and there's no understanding
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and there's no understanding of how of this term, you know, toxic hunger.
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There's no understanding of understanding how the body works that really.
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Impedes both the conventional, the alternative, the obesity society.
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All communities don't recognize this.
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And I, as you know, written and published a lot of studies and, and
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about this such, such a large amount, and it's not still generally even
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entered into the medical textbooks.
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They still describe hunger as something that's a detox from a bad diet, rather, as
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opposed to, um, sensing the sensations of real, real hunger, which are a different
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sensation that a person's able to get when they get back to good health again.
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Yeah, we'll come back to that because you know, sometimes that's one of the
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real benefits of even something like a process of fasting where you can encounter
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that real sense of hunger again and not equate fatigue with hunger, which
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is done as you've mentioned, so you know, so universally in our population.
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For sure.
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And Frank, just to make it clear, I do not recommend fasting.
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Four people with food addiction and obesity.
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No, I, and I agree.
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I'm gonna come back to a fasting discussion with you in a little bit.
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We'll do it.
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We'll do it once the people, you know, I can talk about that a little more,
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but it's just my years of experience and so much that show that these
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people who are obsessed about food.
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They slow the metabolic rate down excessively, but they also, it, it, in
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too many cases, it fuels their obsession with, with food again, and gets them
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into a vicious sec se cycle of yo-yoing.
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They don't learn the, the techniques and the, you know, the long term skills they
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need to develop to stay on a diet long term when they have this, well, let's go,
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let's go there right now because you've had experience supervising many fasts.
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You've eaten, written a major book about it, right?
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And you don't really do that now, you're not involved in the
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supervision of fasting as much.
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Now I understand.
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Is that true?
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Uh, yes and no.
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Okay.
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I mean, you know, 'cause I, I wanna be, I wanna be accurate when I
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ask you the next set of questions because I want to ask you, where
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do you see fasting fitting in mind?
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I use fasting in mind in your mindset now, right?
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I might use fasting judiciously to aid people with certain, as a
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part of my therapeutic protocol for various diseases, but it's not
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generally utilized for a person who's, you know, 50 to a hundred pounds
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overweight or significantly overweight.
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Who's an overeating food addict who has trouble losing weight and has
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trouble staying on a diet, um, fasting and even, even, um, you know, even
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intermittent fasting when people do days of 500 to 600 calories eating,
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I don't even wanna do that either.
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I want people to learn how to repeat and find what works for them.
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Get into the program, learning the recipes and the meals, and
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structure the diet the proper way.
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Have repetition of this program, which is gonna afford 'em the ability
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to lose two or three pounds a week.
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That they're gonna be between usually 1100, 1400 calories a day, eating
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super healthy foods that fill them up and give them sufficient satisfaction.
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And then they can stay with this long term 'cause they may have to,
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it may take them six months to a year to lose all their excess weight.
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And we want consistency and repetition and day in and day out.
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'cause that's, and then, and the abstinence from your addictive
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exposure to your love affair with your addictive substances.
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And I'm just saying that that appears to have the most highest probability
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of people having long, long-term results with less recidivism.
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When I The fast, the more you fast people that are overweight and still
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have a lot of food, addictive tendencies.
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It leads to a higher, uh, in my experience, a higher probability
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of them going back to overeating or going off the diet and, and gain
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weight back after the fast and then back to start square one again.
14:12
You know?
14:12
How do you feel about the approach of looking at intermittent
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fasting where it's not so much.
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A pattern of calorie restriction, but it is more a time
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restricted pattern of eating.
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Do you see any benefit for people doing these 14, 10 and 16, eight cycles of
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getting all their calories, but within a CA certain window of time that kind of,
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kind of respects the light dark cycles, so to speak, which is That's correct.
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Circadian rhythm.
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What do you feel about that?
14:38
Yes.
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That's what we do and that's what we advocate, so that we
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do that particularly because.
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Um, detoxification and healing and the anti-aging phenomenons occur most
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effectively when you're sleeping at night and they occur more effectively if you're
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not digesting food as you're sleeping.
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If your body is in the detox mode when you're sleeping.
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So you don't, so we're trying to have people eat a light enough dinner and
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an early enough dinner so they're, uh, hours as they're going without food
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for enough hours before they go to bed.
15:10
So they're not going to sleep with food in their stomach.
15:12
So even if you go to, even if you stop eating five hours before bedtime,
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if you stuff yourself with enough food, you could still be digesting.
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You have to eat, you have to not eat till you're full and you have to have a, so
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we're recommending that, yes, that, um.
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We, we, and we, when we want people to do time restricted eating, we generally
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don't want them to skip breakfast and start eating lunch at 12 or one o'clock
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and then eat late into the night.
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'cause then they're still going to sleep on a full stomach.
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Right?
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We want to intermittent fast.
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So the episode when they're not eating is before bedtime.
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So they go to sleep on an empty stomach.
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I try, I'm trying to do that and sometimes I undershoot my caloric
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needs for the day where I feel like I'm hungry when I'm going to bed at night.
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But I say to myself, well, that's good.
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I, I, I, I, the fact that I'm hungry means I didn't overeat today.
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I can have a little water and go to bed.
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I don't know, you know?
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Um, but, and when people will say, oh, I'm on this great diet.
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I'm never hungry, and I'm just thinking to myself, well, if you're never
16:03
hungry, you're chronically overeating.
16:04
You know, because you gotta, if you're never hungry, it means you've
16:07
always putting in more food than you really needed all the time.
16:08
You gotta have some hunger episodically to document the fact that you're not
16:12
putting in too many calories, you know?
16:14
Right.
16:15
I'm here with Dr. Joel Furman.
16:16
We're gonna take a, a short break to hear from our sponsor,
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I'm your host, Dr. Frank Sabatino, and now back to the show.
17:58
Welcome back to the Health Science Podcast.
18:00
I'm your host, Dr. Frank Sino.
18:02
I'm here with Dr. Joel Ferman.
18:04
Um, you know, it's interesting when you have systems like hygiene and you
18:08
have these, uh, these systems that have these all embracing philosophies.
18:12
And, and this happens with many people with their agendas for diets and programs.
18:17
They, they seem to have this idea that this a, a one thing fits all approach.
18:22
And so they get very adamant about these philosophical approaches and lose sight
18:27
of the fact that many times you have to deal with people where, where they
18:31
are and with the shortcomings they have and the past histories that they have.
18:34
And so, you know, I know that this is something that you have actually spoken
18:39
about because you can't just adhere to an ideal philosophy every minute because
18:44
it may not be in the best interest of the person you may be counseling with.
18:47
So let's talk about that just a little bit.
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How do you modify.
18:51
You know, the, the ideal philosophy of what we know is best in the
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best interest in the long run.
18:57
Whole plant foods, you know, certain amounts of activity, sleep, rest,
19:00
all of those kinds of pieces.
19:02
How does that factor into how you evaluate?
19:05
The people that you work with and how do you transcend just getting locked in to
19:10
just a philosophical approach where people can become almost like zealots, which is
19:15
something that we saw very common in the hygiene movement for many, many years.
19:19
People didn't care about, you know, where it was.
19:22
It had to be applied to certain ways.
19:23
How do you approach that?
19:25
I've seen many people personally damage from, um.
19:29
The tenets of the American Natural Hygiene Society as advocated by Herbert
19:33
Shelton, and they're strict in a religious like fervor where they've
19:36
damaged themselves and caused because of what, 'cause sticking to the program,
19:41
even though they're doing badly.
19:42
Like, and being a phys, being a medical doctor, I've had the unique experience
19:47
of a lot of elderly, um, vegans and a lot of elderly hygienists who develop
19:51
problems come to me looking for answers.
19:54
For example, a woman flew in from Sweden.
19:58
Who was a, a, you know, a natural hygiene advocate, and she had heart advanced
20:03
heart disease and peripheral vascular disease on a natural hygiene diet.
20:07
And when I evaluated her, I found her homocysteine to be like, you know,
20:12
almost a hundred in her B12 deficient.
20:14
She was so severely deficient in B12 that when I told her she's gonna need
20:18
to take B12 immediately because she's severely deficient, she refused.
20:24
She said, Dr. Shelton doesn't recommend supplements, says
20:26
you can get enough from 'em.
20:27
So she refused.
20:28
Another person that was a raw foodist who was an actual hygienist,
20:31
um, came to me with a pneumonia.
20:34
Um, and he was avoiding taking antibiotics at the time he got to me.
20:39
Um, he was so sick that he needed intravenous antibiotics
20:43
to possibly save them.
20:44
So I sent him right over to the emergency room for IV antibiotics
20:48
and he died in the emergency room.
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For a non-treated pneumonia for that he refused antibiotics.
20:54
Um, you know, we, we have a whole, I can keep going more and
20:57
more stories, but, um, but yes.
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Um, and the, and the, one of the largest factors in my, um, exposure to people
21:04
on vegan diets has been people who have developed neurologic deficiencies in later
21:08
life due to severe dh, um, Omega-3 index deficiencies, or DHA and EPA deficiencies,
21:13
predominantly DHA deficiencies with a lot of, um, plant advocates
21:18
developing dementia or Parkinson's.
21:20
Um, and when you do the Omega-3 index, some of these people's levels were
21:24
incredibly low, almost non-existent in spite of a healthy diet.
21:28
And the vegetarian, the vegan community is such a, is so philosophically bent on,
21:33
on, like seeing it in a religious manner.
21:36
That they'll say something like, oh, that person's a junk food vegan.
21:40
Or they're just eating or doing that.
21:41
Or they're just eating, you know?
21:42
And I'm saying, no, these people were healthy people on natural hygiene type
21:46
diets, eating a well excellent diet and develop very severe deficiencies,
21:51
which increases your, which reduces the brain's ability to, to, um.
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To deal with toxins and your exposure to the toxic, um, chemicals that
21:59
can cause Parkinson's that are, are exacerbated with Omega-3 deficiencies.
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And now we have so many studies showing that that could be the Achilles heel,
22:07
especially for some people who have very low levels of the, of a vegan diet.
22:11
Um, but there's a lot of other things that people are individual
22:14
differences that we have to make modifications and not everybody,
22:18
um, you know, we have to evaluate.
22:20
Um, and do what's best for the individual person.
22:23
Not every child thrives, or not every elderly person can
22:26
thrive on a strictly vegan diet.
22:28
Sometimes we have to evaluate that and make adjustments to make sure
22:32
first thing we do is make sure they're thriving and not just follow some
22:35
philosophically in a rigid fashion.
22:37
Even if a person's not doing well, we gotta evaluate what's the cause
22:40
of them not doing well, and see if we can supply them with what they need.
22:44
To make sure they're okay.
22:46
Well, one of those, one of, you know, the patient, the
22:48
outcome for the person becomes critically, becomes most important.
22:51
Of course.
22:52
That's the goal that the welfare of that person, for sure.
22:55
Yes, for sure.
22:55
Well, one of the issues that you brought up, uh, in, in your own writing and,
22:59
and, and things that I've read about in interviews that you've done, is
23:03
that because there have been studies, evidence-based to show the prevention
23:08
and reversal of heart disease with.
23:10
Low fat, whole food plant, exclusive diets.
23:13
One of the things that happened from that was the vilification of fat.
23:18
From whole food sources like nuts, seeds, avocados, things of that nature.
23:23
And, um, it, it almost reminds me of this idea where people for the longest
23:27
time made no segregation between things like refined carbohydrates
23:32
and baked goods and processed foods compared to the carbohydrates and
23:37
whole plants and fruits, right?
23:38
So it, there, there's no discrimination has been made sometimes between.
23:43
These, you know, fractured fats that are found in these processed foods and animal
23:48
foods compared to plant-based foods.
23:51
And so I think some of that neurological issues you talk about can relate
23:55
to that vilification of fat and the avoidance of nuts, seeds, avocados, can
24:00
you speak to that just a little bit?
24:01
'cause I think that's a very important point for people to hear.
24:05
Two things.
24:06
Number one, not only is the overwhelming amount of evidence.
24:10
Um, you know, in a, in a very, in a way with tremendous corroboration between
24:15
major studies show that excluding all fat of the diet with the avoidance
24:19
of nuts and seeds increases the risk of irregular heartbeat, lowers the
24:22
seizures threshold, and also increases the risk of sudden cardiac death
24:28
and increases heart attack risks.
24:29
So the diets became those diets that became more popular by studying a
24:32
small group of people doing well, didn't even follow 'em to their death.
24:36
We have much more, we have much larger studies with, with hundreds of thousands
24:39
of people and many different studies that show that those are not, that's not
24:42
the best way to reverse heart disease.
24:44
In my career, as you know, as a board certified family physician, seeing
24:48
thousands, 10 thousands of people, and you know, and maybe I'm not publishing
24:52
and didn't have all the ability at that time, or didn't have the, you know,
24:55
when I'm busy seeing patients all day long, I was not putting out research.
24:59
Like some of, like some of those doctors we're talking about did.
25:02
But I'm sure assure you that I've seen many thousands more people
25:05
with heart disease who reversed it successfully than these doctors did
25:09
when they have 50 to 60 people or 20 to 30 people in their studies.
25:12
I've literally treated hundreds of thousands of people with and reversed
25:15
their heart, their heart disease use, utilizing nuts and seeds in the diet.
25:19
However, I don't want to give the impression that because most
25:23
Americans getting their fat from oils and animal fats, and we're saying.
25:27
We should be getting our fats from whole plant foods, which have a
25:30
completely different biological effect.
25:31
Now they absorb more slowly.
25:33
The professionals burn for energy.
25:34
There's all reasons why they suck at the, the steriles suck
25:37
out oxidized LDLs in the gut.
25:39
There's just a hundred reasons why they work differently.
25:42
However, they still do not fix the Omega-3 deficiency problem, and that's not why
25:47
people develop Omega-3 deficiencies.
25:49
You can't, um, flaxseed and walnut your way into a, into a good
25:53
enough Omega-3 index in most cases.
25:56
And some people can, there are some people genetically who have excellent
25:59
Omega-3 index in spite of the fact that because their diet is really good and
26:04
they've cut out all the extra omega six fats and half their nut and seed
26:07
intake comes from the high Omega-3 nuts and seeds like flax seeds and walnuts.
26:11
And the other half could be the more, the high omega six nuts
26:14
like pistachios and other nuts and pecans, but, and some of those can
26:18
achieve an adequate Omega-3 index.
26:20
But most people cannot, even with dietary manipulations in gymnastics, they cannot
26:25
get their old Omega-3 elevated because the conversion enzymes are genetic, are
26:29
so genetically determined and they would require some degree of supplementation to
26:34
make sure their Omega-3 index is adequate.
26:36
And you don't use some Phil philosophy to justify so many people say, oh, well
26:41
you don't have proof that being low on a strict vegan is gonna be as bad as
26:44
being low if you're an animal product.
26:46
People have all these rationalizations.
26:48
Um, which is literally gambling with people's brains, their lives and
26:53
coming up with theories why they think they don't have to worry about it.
26:57
And I think those theories are dangerous for people because I've seen it, I've
27:00
seen it ha um, just happen too many times.
27:03
Well, one of the arguments that's come up with that, and we'll address that here
27:06
'cause I think it's a good discussion, is that when you look at the pathway
27:10
from Alpha-Linolenic acid in the Omega-3 family to the output of DHA in that
27:14
linear pathway, because it is a linear pathway if you are supplement, if you
27:20
do have the enzymes that could make the transformation from EPA to DHA, if you
27:25
provide exogenous DHA in large amounts.
27:29
It still is not addressing the EPA component of that 'cause
27:32
it doesn't go backwards.
27:33
It's only a linear pathway.
27:35
So when you think about that supplementation profile, are you
27:38
trying to provide an E-P-A-D-H-A ratio that will solve that?
27:42
Or are you looking at people that have the genetic enzyme deficiency?
27:47
To convert EPA to DHA.
27:50
And that gives you justification for providing a DHA supplementation?
27:55
No.
27:55
What is your feeling about those feedbacks in that linear pathway,
27:58
I guess is what I'm asking you?
28:00
I don't think it's a relevant point, really, because there's no supplements
28:03
that just give you DHA, all the supplements that are available on
28:07
the market give you both D-A-E-P-A and DHA, and as I wrote in my book,
28:11
the End of Heart Disease, it's also documented that even though
28:15
deficiencies or insufficiencies could be.
28:17
Um, harmful and more harmful the more deficient it gets.
28:21
Excess can also be harmful.
28:23
Right.
28:23
And so, so just because there might be problems with taking too much EPA
28:27
or DHA or too much DHA doesn't then make it logical that you shouldn't
28:32
take any to get, and that's with a lot of No, I understand that.
28:35
I get that.
28:35
You know, so the, so too much fish oil could have, um.
28:39
Anti-inflammatory effects that can thin the blood and
28:41
have weakened immune function.
28:43
And that when I show, I'm also showing even atrial fibrillation, it can be linked
28:46
to both Omega-3 deficiency or excess.
28:49
We wanna be in the sweet spot in the center and not have too
28:51
deficient or have too much.
28:53
It's the same thing true with vitamin D. Just because something's good
28:55
doesn't mean you take too much of it.
28:56
And just because too much of it can be harmful doesn't mean it's
28:58
okay to be deficient, you know?
29:00
No.
29:00
So it's like, same thing with zinc.
29:01
You know, people just don't, some, some people can utilize you if, if
29:06
they, if a person has a inherent bias.
29:09
Um, they can utilize any kind of data to make it look like they have some
29:13
data to support them by showing an excessive amount could be bad when
29:17
nobody's advocating an excessive amount.
29:19
You know what I mean?
29:20
When we go back to that fat question, I want to just ask you a question.
29:23
So do you, do you feel that.
29:25
A person from those whole food sources.
29:28
'cause we know bottled oils and so on is not what we want.
29:31
Do you feel that in that range of taking about 15% of your energy, calories
29:36
for the day from fat is adequate?
29:39
Or do you think more is necessary than 10 to 15% of total energy needs?
29:44
I definitely think 10% is gonna lead is more increased risk of
29:47
heart disease, irregular heartbeat, and neurological deficit.
29:50
I think the, these low fat diets advocated by some leaders in the
29:53
plant-based community, they don't really have the patient experience.
29:57
Almost all these people who are advocating these people, these nutritional gurus
30:00
that are so famous are just researchers.
30:03
They just, you know, and they don't really have a, a broad patient experience.
30:07
Um.
30:08
And I think that they're, that, you know, and then I'm dealing with most of these
30:12
people who don't, don't do well, and they, they really can't even go to those
30:14
people to see them as a problem, as a, with medical conditions that we're seeing.
30:18
So in any case, yes, I've seen, um, so I think 10% of calories from fat
30:23
gets too many people into trouble.
30:24
And 15 would 15 works.
30:27
Yes.
30:27
15 to 25 is more reasonable, you know, and but, and I don't think a person
30:31
has to worry about whether they're 15 to 25 or 15 to 30 if as long as
30:36
they're not in a favorable weight.
30:37
'cause calories do, ma do count.
30:39
You know, I always say half of what we eat feeds our needs and the other
30:42
half feeds the needs of our doctors.
30:44
'cause the average American is consuming like three, 3000, 600 calories a day
30:49
when even in rural China, the average caloric consumption is around 1600 a day.
30:53
So it's not people thinking, oh, how could I say half of what we eat.
30:56
But it's amazing how many calories people are putting down that they, and that just.
31:01
Um, so calories when you're eating such excess amount of calories do
31:04
matter and we, and what makes eating this healthy way of eating that we, we
31:09
eat, that I call a nutritarian diet.
31:12
Um, so effective is it makes you satisfied with the right amount of calories so
31:18
you can eat instinctually when your diet is deficient in nutrients and your body
31:22
is now full of metabolic wastes and, and external exogenous toxins as well.
31:27
Well, let's go there.
31:28
Let that, let's go there.
31:29
'cause there's a part of that that I wanna discuss with you.
31:31
I know that.
31:33
I feel the same way.
31:35
Words, the phrases like plant-based were never good enough for me because Yeah.
31:39
And, and things, the nebulousness of things like vegan and plant-based,
31:43
because there's so many things that could come under that umbrella that are
31:46
refined and processed and debilitating and devastating or imbalanced is crazy.
31:51
Fair.
31:51
Yes.
31:51
But that led, that led you to coin the phrase nutritarian and to create kind
31:55
of a system that's centered around what I gather are four basic principles.
31:59
And I want to just mention those and then I'd love for you.
32:02
To explain them a little bit to the audience so they get a bigger vision
32:05
of the program you're talking about.
32:07
So I know the first principle with nutritarian is foods that have the
32:10
greatest nutrient density, and these are whole plant foods that have the
32:14
greatest nutrient density, but then they also, you have to also deal with
32:18
what you call nutritional adequacy.
32:21
Oh, hormone stability and then exposure to toxic elements.
32:25
So I know that that encompasses kind of more of that whole nutritarian system.
32:30
So can, for our viewers, can you spend a little time explaining
32:33
that, the dynamic of that, that whole gestalt if you will, right.
32:38
I'd like people to memorize a few words here for the five words are that
32:42
form one of the basic principles are.
32:44
The factors that have the most scientific support to slow aging, which is moderate
32:51
caloric restriction, not, you know, maximum caloric restriction or advanced
32:55
just moderate caloric restriction.
32:57
Just undershooting your calories by a little bit in the context
33:00
of micronutrient excellence.
33:01
So those are the five words.
33:03
Moderate restriction with micronutrient excellence, and I'm saying.
33:06
Is when you achieve micronutrient excellence, you are, you are satisfied
33:11
with the right amount of calories, and that's why we're, so, we're trying to look
33:14
at the micronutrient density of a diet.
33:16
And the second thing I want people to write down and memorize is this.
33:21
This statement.
33:22
I'll read the whole statement.
33:23
I'll tell 'em the party I wanna memorize.
33:24
The whole statement is more than 200 studies corroborate each other showing
33:30
that raw vegetables have the most consistent and powerful association,
33:34
the reduction of cancers of all types.
33:36
So here's what a part I want to memorize.
33:38
Here's the part.
33:39
Raw vegetables have the most consistent, powerful association with
33:42
a reduction of cancers of all types.
33:45
So yes, we're encouraging people to eat a lot, to eat a vegetable-based diet,
33:48
not a grain-based diet, not a fruit-based diet, and not a, and not a meat-based
33:52
diet, and not a processed food-based diet.
33:54
But in any case, and we want nutritional variety and just like
33:58
eight, you know, the NCH equals on C or healthy like ex expectancy.
34:03
Is proportional to the nutrient per calorie, the nutritional
34:06
bang per caloric buck.
34:08
It's also the case that the formula is there to show that when you live on
34:12
foods that are high in calories within an insignificant nutrient load, like
34:15
processed foods and animal products and processed foods are both very
34:19
low in micronutrients and and absent in phytochemicals and antioxidants.
34:23
In other words, their micronutrient load compared to
34:25
their caloric load is imbalanced.
34:27
So when you, as you eat more of your diet from high calorie, low nutrient
34:31
food, you age yourself, you can, you set the groundwork for disease.
34:35
So it's not just eating foods that are riches in nutrients, it's
34:38
avoiding foods that give you calories with no significant nutrient load.
34:42
That's the major factor there.
34:44
Yeah, you want the biggest bang for your buck, obviously, when
34:46
you're eating, and that bang for your buck is the nutrient density.
34:50
Uh, what about the, uh, the exaggeration of you, the, you know, hormone
34:54
stability, which is part of your program?
34:55
This is a very important piece because the changes then how these
34:59
fractured and fragmented diets.
35:02
Cause such, if you will, dysfunction and imbalance in some
35:05
of the more important hormones.
35:07
That can also be growth factors in cancer promoters.
35:11
Uh, talk a little bit about that if you can.
35:13
Right?
35:14
Because we know that, um, there, if you would've asked me what's
35:19
the most like striking science findings from the last five years
35:24
in the field of nutritional science?
35:26
I'd have to say it's about protein.
35:29
It's about showing that as animal protein is dialed up in the diet, we get more
35:34
premature deaths and how animal protein can modulate the aging process, where
35:39
more animal protein makes for more rapid aging and less means for slower aging.
35:43
While at the same time the studies show more plant protein makes for
35:46
slower aging and affords people the opportunity to have a longer lifespan.
35:50
So what these studies have shown is that we should be generally taking.
35:53
Eating more plant protein and not more animal protein.
35:56
But plant protein adequacy still plays a role here.
35:58
And that means eating green vegetables, beans and nuts and seeds, and not
36:03
living on just a fruitarian diet because the fruit is the only food
36:07
that's low in protein in in the plant, in this, in the natural plants.
36:10
So we're saying here that it is important to eat vegetables and most
36:14
people should be eating beans or soybeans and other beans and, um.
36:19
And, and a variety of vegetables and, and, um, and green vegetables, which are
36:24
very high in, are the richest source of phyto of the anti-cancer phytonutrients.
36:28
And I have this acronym, which, you know, gbombs, which stands for greens, beans,
36:33
onions, mushrooms, berries and seeds.
36:35
Just to def document six foods that have so much scientific support
36:41
to retard and prevent cancer.
36:44
So we're just keeping aware of these foods with a lot of scientific evidence to show
36:47
the anti-cancer power of those foods.
36:49
And when you put these foods synergistically together in a diet,
36:52
then we have the most ability to prevent cancer, not just prevent heart disease.
36:56
And of course, we're saying here that I mentioned animal protein when
36:59
you asked me about hormones because one of the reasons animal protein
37:03
accelerates aging is by raising IGF one two high to which can accelerate.
37:08
Um.
37:09
But of course just eating more calories, too many calories
37:12
can obviously raise your me.
37:14
Um, raise your metabolic rate to age yourself faster too.
37:18
And, and that.
37:19
Um, if our diet is too deficient in protein, another vegan and plant-based
37:23
advocates say protein doesn't matter, and that it's just been over exaggerated.
37:28
But I'm saying no, that we want the protein to the diet, even though
37:31
lowering animal protein is beneficial, if the diet is too low in plant protein
37:35
or is still too low in protein, IGF one and the elderly can drop too low
37:39
and that can still weaken immunity.
37:41
So if the IG one drops so you can be on a vegan diet that's too low on protein.
37:45
When people say, no, you can't, but you can, you can be eating, as, you know,
37:48
you could be eating too much white bread or too much fruit or too much not
37:51
having the, um, a well-designed diet with enough nutritional variety, with
37:57
enough protein, adequacy and protein and complimentary amino acids do have value.
38:02
And that's what, so the studies are kind of reinforcing, um.
38:07
What we've been teaching people over the last 20, 30 years.
38:10
Well, what I like about, what I like about one of the models and things
38:13
that you've spoken about is that, you know, the evidence-based that has AC
38:19
accrued over the years has vindicated the original, you know, directives of.
38:24
Of hygiene about whole plant foods.
38:27
That's one of the things that has only gotten stronger with the evidence base.
38:31
While certain things like food combining and things like that from
38:34
the past, of course, have been shown to not have the validity that, you
38:38
know, the founding fathers once did.
38:40
I mean, they did the best that they could with the information at hand.
38:43
But what I liked about some of what you wrote is this idea of synergy.
38:47
The idea that you've kind of refashioned food, combining in the
38:50
following way, that when you eat certain cooked things together.
38:54
You are actually availing yourself of even greater nutrient availability
38:58
because of those combinations.
39:00
For example, beans and tomatoes and onions and, and mushrooms and things
39:04
like that when combined together.
39:07
Pro provide those, those powerful antioxidants and anti-cancer nutrients,
39:12
even to a greater extent by that synergy of taking them in together.
39:17
So it's kind of a, a new model of food combining in a way that highlights
39:21
the micronutrient availability.
39:23
And I like that picture of that.
39:25
Yes, definitely.
39:26
You stand strongly behind that, right?
39:28
That idea of that kind of combination.
39:30
Synergizing the availability.
39:33
Of micronutrients also.
39:35
Absolutely.
39:35
And there's a synergy and it's also affects the microbiome as you know, in
39:39
the biofilm, which then keeps your the back to hormones again, which, how it
39:43
keeps your insulin and glucose absorption, the rate of glucose absorption through
39:46
the gut wall favorable because you are a regular consumer of mushrooms
39:50
and onions and beans and greens.
39:53
So we're talking about raw greens and raw onions, raw.
39:57
Having the best effect on the un cooked beans and cooked mushrooms.
40:00
And when you have those two cooked foods and the two cooked, two raw foods in your
40:03
diet combined, you have the most favorable type of bacteria of gram-positives that
40:08
that adhere and stick to the VII to create a biofilm that now slows the absorption.
40:14
When you had your mango in the morning.
40:16
You, how do you make a moderately glycemic fluid like a mango be low
40:19
glycemic because you ate your beans and your onions and your mushrooms,
40:22
which can made the glycemic lower to the mango lower, and scientists
40:25
call that the second meal effect.
40:27
So yes, there's synergy with your in the whole diet.
40:31
This is why the keto people can't figure out whether their
40:33
continuous glucose monitoring.
40:35
Why they say, oh, I gotta eat tuna fish and steak and cheese.
40:39
Because if I eat fruit like an oatmeal and mango, my sugars go through the roof.
40:42
Your sugars go through the roof because your microbiome is bad.
40:45
And because you've distorted the, the, you've distorted the shape
40:47
of your insulin receptors from so much saturated fat in your diet.
40:50
So there's all, so there's a whole bunch of damage that occurs that
40:53
makes them now react unfavorable to a normal glycemic food.
40:56
They can't eat a tropical fruit or a piece of a bowl of oatmeal, you know?
40:59
And you know.
41:01
Yeah, I wanna move, I wanna shift gears a little bit.
41:03
Before I do though, I just wanna let people know where, where's the
41:05
best place to find you online, Joel?
41:07
What's what?
41:07
What's the place you want them to go to to find more about you and your information?
41:12
Well, obviously dr furman.com, you know, D-R-F-U-H-R-M-A n.com.
41:18
And my most recent book with the most updated references is Each for life.
41:23
So that's the most, you know, it's always get better to get the one with the more
41:26
newer references as opposed to, and more references because as you just said
41:29
a few minutes ago, more evidence has corroborated these theories that we've
41:35
developed over the years and there's so much evidence it makes it undeniable.
41:38
If you really read it with all the evidence available, it make,
41:41
makes it, you know, undeniable and really hard to, to see.
41:44
So I wanna shift, I wanna shift gears just a little bit 'cause you
41:46
know, we've come through a time.
41:48
Where there was this kind of crazy pandemic that really altered
41:51
the lives of so many people and affected so many people.
41:55
And during that time, what was portrayed was that a sense of hopelessness.
42:01
The idea that, you know, we cannot adjust and deal with these kinds of, you know,
42:06
changes in organisms in the environment.
42:08
It took away people's, uh, real, it took, it, it, it kind of countered the wisdom
42:12
that we know that we have this tremendous internal surveillance and protective
42:17
system that we call the immune system.
42:20
And I want you, if you can, I know you wrote your book Super Immunity.
42:23
I want you to address the power of nutrition and lifestyle choice as a
42:28
tool that people have to really enhance.
42:32
This incredible wisdom and ability of their immune system to respond.
42:35
Can you do that please?
42:36
Absolutely.
42:37
We should go on.
42:38
We can keep asking many things.
42:39
We should go on for hours.
42:40
It's, I know, I know.
42:40
I, but I wanna touch on so many things I wanna just at least
42:43
touch on, you know what I mean?
42:45
Okay.
42:45
The, um, yes.
42:47
Because it's, it's, and it's so fascinating to me.
42:49
I'll tell you the most fascinating part is that.
42:51
In spite of the fact that all the studies show that the most overweight people had
42:54
the most highest risk of death and people with comorbidities like diabetes and
42:57
high blood pressure and heart disease, and people who ate poorly and ate fast
42:59
foods, had higher rates of COVID death.
43:01
In spite of all of that, no pop, no population group in no area of the
43:04
of the world lost weight, turned to a healthy diet and tried to get,
43:07
increase the risk of death and to lower the risk of death from COVID.
43:10
In spite of all this evidence going all over the media and all these
43:13
people bla, you know, talking about how overweight people are dying more.
43:17
Nobody's saying, well, maybe I should start eating healthier
43:20
and drop some extra body fat.
43:21
Body fat is pro-inflammatory tissue that releases li cy cytokines and lip
43:25
kines that make for cytokine storm and, and throw out in their oxygenated
43:29
poorly the oxygenated tissues.
43:30
And it inhale, um, impairs immunity and increases risk of ammonia and COVID.
43:35
And, and you'd think, well, people were losing weight.
43:37
No, they even gained weight through COVID.
43:38
They even ate more unhealthy through COVID.
43:40
It shows how, you know, food addiction is so infiltrated society.
43:43
But absolutely your answer to your question is that.
43:46
Our, our, our immune system, the defenders of the gates of the castle in
43:51
the intra epithelial lymphocytes that surround the VII of the digestive tract.
43:57
Or the first line of defense and those lymphocytes atrophy and
44:02
lose their function when you don't eat sufficient green vegetables.
44:05
They're green vegetable dependent lymphatic system and so, and which
44:10
are fueled by the AAL hydrocarbon receptor, which utilizes the I tcs the
44:15
isothiocyanates in green cruciferous vegetables to be fully activated.
44:18
So yes, when you eat, these people have no immune, almost no immune function.
44:22
Because they don't eat.
44:23
They're not eating sufficient vegetables.
44:25
They're eating no raw food, no greens and salads every day.
44:28
I always say if you don't like green vegetables, you better live
44:32
close to a hospital 'cause you're gonna probably need one pretty soon.
44:35
But of course, that's a stupid joke 'cause the hospital's not gonna give
44:37
you any health anyway, you know?
44:39
But the whole joke doesn't make sense.
44:41
But it reminds me of, I like to go skiing and see these expensive homes
44:44
where on the side of the slope so people can get right on the slope.
44:46
I people should buy these expensive condos right near the hospitals.
44:49
So they can go right back and forth on like trams to the hospitals and
44:52
see their doctors all the time because they become medically dependent from
44:55
their diet and their life becomes one giant tragedy with everybody.
44:59
You know, with the ma these weapons of mass destruction on every street corner
45:03
and people, you know, eating themselves to death and, and, and to speak to that.
45:08
There are huge international studies indicating people that were on whole plant
45:13
diets were in the lowest risk of severity of this infection, and the fact that
45:18
this kind of information was not really.
45:21
You know, provided to the population is really criminal in its own way too.
45:25
It's just remarkably debilitating and devastating in its own way.
45:29
Um, let's go to something else because I, I just wanna, I'll wrap up with
45:33
a couple of these ideas in terms of, you know, aging and weight loss.
45:37
It's kind of intriguing.
45:38
We're always looking for magic bullets as a physician, and I wanna bring this up.
45:43
How do you feel about people utilizing, you know, these various now
45:47
pharmaceuticals to kind of approach these problems like ozempic drugs, like
45:52
anti-diabetic drugs to provide these rapid weight loss programs or, uh, pre-diabetic
45:57
or anti-diabetic drugs like metformin.
46:00
Which we know can check, can, can interfere with the
46:04
aging pathways in cells.
46:05
But at the same time, you're dealing with pharmaceutical interventions and
46:09
people are losing sight of the fact that these profound, simple approaches
46:14
with the nutrition you're talking about, and physical activity and other
46:17
lifestyle factors will get that job done.
46:21
Without these ancillary risks as a physician, it must disturb you to see.
46:26
These pharmaceutical approaches getting their, Hey, another heyday of popularity.
46:30
How do you feel about that?
46:32
Yeah.
46:33
You know, to some degree, as you know, I'm left alone and the
46:35
wilderness here is the only physician that objects to these things.
46:38
Probably because people aren't given informed consent.
46:42
You want, you know, they're not told the, and whether it's diabetic medications
46:45
and telling 'em they're never gonna be on these drugs the rest of life, whether it's
46:48
high blood pressure drugs, whether it's weight loss drugs, and by, by the way.
46:52
These people, most people who are overweight need to
46:54
lose more than 20 pounds.
46:55
These medications don't cause a lot of weight loss.
46:58
They cause like 10 kilograms of weight loss over a year.
47:01
That's 22 pounds.
47:02
Right?
47:02
How's that gonna help a person who's 75 pounds overweight?
47:05
And by and by the way, um, it's only, you know, to what I'm saying right
47:09
now is the direction of the travel.
47:11
The weight plays a role because when a person loses, let's say you lose
47:14
50 pounds, you gain 10 pounds back.
47:18
You're worse, you're higher risk of having a heart attack because you
47:21
just put on 10 pounds before then.
47:23
If you're lost, then even though you're 40 pounds less than when
47:25
you started, you're just moving the direction of gaining back weight.
47:28
So all these people do is yoyo their weight, push their weight down,
47:31
and then their weight comes back.
47:33
They bounce back with some rebound effects because the drugs don't work as much of
47:36
the second year and it's not a permanent.
47:38
So they're not permanent solutions people, and it just reinforces they
47:41
don't have to learn how to eat.
47:41
Right.
47:42
And it's the same thing with gastric bypass to a degree gastric bi.
47:46
But, but in any case, um, I'm teaching people that a nutritarian
47:52
is a person who's eating a, an excellent diet, who's at their ideal
47:56
weight, or a person who's eating an excellent diet and moving towards
48:01
their ideal weight every single week.
48:04
And the minute you're not losing or the minute you're gaining it, and then
48:06
you're not on the program, because if you're overweight and you're gaining
48:09
weight, you're doing the wrong thing and your health is not gonna be good.
48:11
Because your health is not good when you're putting on, when you're in the
48:14
process of gaining weight, and we're amazingly, while the person could
48:18
be 30, 40, 50 pounds overweight, but they're still dropping weight steadily,
48:22
we're keeping the inflammation down.
48:25
We're keeping the, um, H-S-C-R-P, the high sensitive coactive protein, the
48:29
myelo peroxidase, the inflammatory markers, the insulin levels are
48:32
lower, the estro levels are lower.
48:34
The angiogenesis promoters are lower, or the, so we're seeing
48:37
benefits occurring when a person is still overweight, if they're
48:39
steadily losing, doing the right way.
48:41
But once you start yo-yoing, once you start getting regaining, once you
48:44
start even taking drugs, you're not gonna see the benefits hormonally.
48:49
Anti-inflammatory and the anti-inflammatory benefits.
48:52
You just don't see the keratinoid scores go up and the nutrient, the, the levels
48:56
of nutrients going up in their body and the levels of inflammation going down and
48:59
the new hormones going back to normal.
49:00
You're just not fixing the person.
49:02
You're just giving them a crutch, another crutch.
49:04
The same way medicine is practiced with everything else.
49:07
Let, let's shift into one of your, uh, one of your proud babies that are in
49:11
operation now after everything you've done and all the energy you put out.
49:16
And I know how difficult it is to run retreats and centers.
49:19
Tell me about the Eat to Live, uh, retreat and what was your
49:22
motivation and your drive to put this residential center together?
49:28
It was about wanting.
49:29
'cause I, I know that a lot of, as you know, a lot of people can get benefits and
49:32
do well from reading books and watching videos and studying and going to internet,
49:37
you know, involvement and have support.
49:40
But some people, I, my feeling over the years was I had people I really cared
49:45
about that just weren't able to control their behavior due to food addiction.
49:50
And they've just, you know, and, and ruined their health even
49:52
though they knew what they should do and they couldn't do it.
49:55
So I knew that, um, that going away to these health retreats for a week or two
50:00
where people eat healthy, go on sprouts, lose weight and go back and they go
50:04
off their diets and go back and gain the weight back, it doesn't no good.
50:07
But I want it to have a place where it could make it, um, where people could be
50:10
on the right program for months at a time.
50:12
You know, we're talking here that I don't admit people if they come in
50:14
less than 30 days, that's minimum.
50:16
But I really recommend people come in three months, you know,
50:19
so most of the people are here at least two or three months.
50:21
Actually, the majority.
50:22
And there, I really feel good about the fact that I can get them off their
50:26
medications and I can retrain their, not only their taste muscle, but also
50:31
I can retrain them psychologically to see the world in a different way.
50:35
And to know how to deal with the, you know, the social interactions, the
50:39
temptations there since their addictions and they, and get more gratitude.
50:43
For and more feel more grateful for having learned this information and really
50:48
understanding how this is the way they're gonna be most happy when they leave.
50:51
It takes time to get people turned around and so it makes, so I really, um,
50:55
love the fact that I've turned around so many people and even people who are
50:59
here who didn't wanna be here, like a person who comes in because their parents
51:04
force 'em to be here and they weigh 350 pounds and they're saying there's
51:07
no way they're gonna eat like this.
51:08
There's no way you're gonna, by the time they were left in three months,
51:11
they not only lost a hundred pounds, but they stayed eating this way when
51:14
they went home for the next year and dropped another a hundred pounds.
51:17
And they, you know, so they, and they loved eating this way and became
51:19
like, Hey, have my helper here.
51:20
And like the young person became at First State, you know, they, you
51:22
know, were forced to like a prison.
51:23
And in other words, it's very rewarding.
51:26
And I wanted that, this different part of my life to, to not, to work
51:30
so hard, seeing peace patients all day long for hours and hours each day.
51:35
But I wanted to be more with a lower number of people, with
51:38
a bigger connection with them.
51:40
Um, which I could still get my enjoyment of helping people and
51:44
doing so in a way that has profound effects on the rest of their lives.
51:47
How, how many, how much bed space do you have, Joe?
51:49
How many people do you take at a time there?
51:51
Um, well, not many.
51:53
We're only like 15 to 20 people.
51:54
Is that Yeah, that's, but that's, that's very manageable, workable, and
51:57
it's high quality when you do that.
51:59
So in that program, you have a built-in opportunity for behavioral
52:03
modification, stress management, that kind of thing, as part of
52:06
your staff people that do that too.
52:08
Yes, absolutely.
52:09
And I even have, um.
52:10
You know, full-time exercise and water or, but we're trying to mostly teach them,
52:15
uh, exercises when they would go home.
52:16
And I also have here, some people come in with pain and, and, you
52:20
know, bad feet and bad knees.
52:22
And we also have, um, some electro, if we have.
52:25
Um, soft wave TRT.
52:26
It's a, it's a type of extra corporal shockwave therapy.
52:29
And I, and actually I look at people's pronated feet and I do exercises
52:33
with 'em in the sand on walking and strengthening their foot muscles.
52:36
And we take pressure off the medial tibial condyle so they can walk more comfortably.
52:40
It's the time they get outta here.
52:41
They can usually walk far distances and without, without pain.
52:45
And I also have the extra corporal shockwave therapy.
52:47
It's the type of equipment called soft wave TRT, that they get a
52:51
series of treatments which can take away their frozen shoulder or
52:53
their, you know, their cartilage in their knee or fix their Achilles
52:56
tendonitis or something like that.
52:58
Um, so we have some other physical modalities that we utilize to help
53:01
them be able to be, to kind of help their pain and their bot physical
53:05
musculoskeletal system at the same time.
53:08
Joe, as we wrap this up, do you have any final words, you know, words of
53:11
wisdom, insight, information you'd like to share with the people watching this?
53:15
Um, yes.
53:17
I would just, um, really am enthusiastic about all the people that are.
53:22
Growing and spreading this good word to other people because every person becomes
53:27
like a super, have the superpowers to radiate out goodwill for other people.
53:32
And then you can't have goodwill for other people unless you're a good role
53:36
model yourself, taking good care of your own health, and then you have
53:39
the greatest reward to have creative goodwill for others while you're taking
53:43
care of yourself at the same time.
53:44
So don't give up.
53:46
Strive towards getting your health in better and better condition, both
53:49
physically, emotionally, and getting your weight at the exact perfect target
53:54
where you're working on your musculature and your weight perfectly, because
53:57
it's a fun hobby to be gardening.
54:00
Growing healthy food, organic regenerative agriculture that you do
54:04
yourself to and, and being physically involved with exercise and, and take
54:10
and good care of your health and eating right all becomes fun and an exciting
54:14
hobby that benefits you and others.
54:17
Joel, I can't thank you enough for taking the time today to come on and,
54:21
and share your information with everyone, and I totally encourage our viewers
54:24
to, uh, go online, uh, uh, and, uh, Joel's, uh, information will be in the
54:30
show notes, so you can see that too.
54:32
Follow him, uh, his books, his, uh, public, uh, broadcasting, uh, specials,
54:37
all the things that he's doing, uh, look into his retreat for those people
54:41
who need that kind of work and that.
54:43
Long-term care, and that's a fantastic place to be in San Diego.
54:48
I know it's a beautiful, beautiful location environmentally for people too,
54:52
and I especially want to thank our, our, uh, viewers out there because without you.
54:57
We couldn't do what we do here.
54:58
I couldn't do what I do.
54:59
And on behalf of the National Health Association, I thank you.
55:03
I'm very grateful for you to be part of this active community.
55:06
I'm your host, Dr. Frank Sabatino, the Director of Health Education for
55:10
the National Health Association, and I look forward to seeing you on the next
55:14
episode of the Health Science Podcast.
55:16
You've been listening to the Health Science Podcast, brought to you by
55:20
the National Health Association.
55:22
Thank you for joining us today.
55:24
And for your commitment to evidence-based health science that backs a whole
55:28
food plant exclusive lifestyle and contributes to the wellbeing of all
55:33
people, animals, and our environment.
55:36
I'm your host, Dr. Frank Sabatino.
55:39
Be sure to leave a rating and a review and we'll see you on the next show.