Latest / Aggressive Negotiations: A Star Wars Podcast / Issue 354: The Crossing & Retrieval

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Issue 354: The Crossing & Retrieval · Aggressive Negotiations: A Star Wars Podcast

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I'm going to regret this. Welcome to the ned Palty. Hi. This
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is Nick and Astasu, story editor on Star Wars, the Clone Wars and
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Star Wars bad Batch. And you are listening to Aggressive Negotiations. Well,
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hello, Ann, Welcome to Aggressive Negotiations, the Star Wars podcast that likes
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to bring you special little things from that galaxy far far away. And I
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am just one of the hosts here Matthew Rushing and with me as he is
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always the incredibly talented and well the wonderfully be shirted John Mills, John,
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I love that solo A Star Wars story T shirt you're wearing today. I
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was wondering where we were going with be shirted, because I don't think anybody
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would want me to be not shirted. So I'm happy to be be shirted
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with you today, Master Rush. Well, luckily we don't do a video
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podcast, so nobody knows if we're ever shirted or not. Anyway, yes,
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you know, and people might tell us just to get the shirt out
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of here, so you know, we are of course delighted that people don't
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tell us that. And you can go over to the nerd party dot com
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slash contact and let us know what you're thinking of the show and where you'd
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like us to go with it, because as we continue this review of season
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two of The Bad Batch, you can reach out to us at the Jedi
1:30
Masters on Twitter, or you can find the network at Join nerd Party or
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the Nerd Party on Facebook and Instagram. So, yeah, Matt, we
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got another two parter that we're talking about this week, right, Yeah,
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we do. This was exciting because you know, I actually kind of forgot
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that, you know, we did a two parter and then this season has
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another two parter with the Crossing and Retrieval, And you know, one of
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the things that I found so interesting, especially as we dive into the episode
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the Crossing, was the way in which, you know, this is an
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episode that truly kind of sets up the feeling that we've been getting this whole
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season, which is that Sid is not trustworthy. You know, so she
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sends them to this mine. Everything's kind of shady in this mine. You
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know, there's there's there's nothing about this mine that's good. It's it's kind
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of like this derelict place that they have to to go into searching for this
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ipsium. Uh, and you can tell obviously she got it by an underhanded
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deal, and then of course by ending the episode jumping all the way to
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that where she's like, Okay, I can help you, it'll take a
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few days kind of thing, And it really just sets up this feeling that,
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in some ways, you know, the Clones are more on their own
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than ever, which I think really plays into the whole storyline that we've got
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with Omega that's happening in this episode, which is her dealing with the ramifications
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of Echo being gone and feeling kind of abandoned, and then of course struggling
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with the fact that they you know, lose the Marauder, which is her
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only home that she's known really since Camino, and it just it you get
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this sense like a lot of things, especially in this episode before we get
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to Retrieval, a lot of things are just kind of unraveling for the Clones
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in some ways, and yet at the same time, these two episodes are
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kind of about building something at the same time, and I just love the
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intricacy with the way in which the animators can tell these very deep stories within
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twenty some odd minutes. Right. I think both of these episodes together maybe
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make an hour at most, you know, I think if you put them
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together, they're actually under an hour, and yet where we're taking the characters
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in the NIE, we're taking them on. I just I'm constantly surprised at
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how deep it is. I think that there is an argument here, even
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more so than the previous two parter, that this would have landed better with
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me the first time around had it all been one special long episode. I
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think that these two fit together in a specific way. That the resolution is
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in part two, and because the full resolution is there, it at least
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is sort of an imbalance in the first viewing experience that I had. I
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don't recall this being released as a two parter. When it came out.
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I think this was one, you know, one and then wait, and
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so it was sort of like an odd delayed reaction. When I watched it
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back to back this time, I was like, Okay, this is the
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story. It actually made my reaction to part two better. I always liked
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Part two, but it actually landed a little different this time because I watched
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them back to back. To speak to your point about the depth of it,
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I think what might get overlooked sometimes in the episode, the first episode
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especially, is the fact that this is where we see that life experience difference
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between Omega and the Batch is because of the fact that her life experience splits
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off from them here because the first person she says something to is Recker,
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and he basically says, you get used to it, right. These guys
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have seen a lot of death and destruction and had to say a lot of
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hard goodbyes. The unit has stayed together, but they've had to say a
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lot of tough goodbyes over time, and so Echo leaving is just one more
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that they've had to say. They didn't want to, but they had to,
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and they get it, they've done it. I think it's interesting that
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Tech is the one who gets to express it best by saying later, you
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know, just because I don't express it that way doesn't mean I don't feel
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it right. I feel it. I just express it in a different way.
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I think that's the lesson moment for kids and for a lot of different
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people in the world. Is that just because somebody doesn't you know it said
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the whole thing of like you don't know what somebody's going through. Never presume
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that they're not feeling something or they're not reacting to something, but they might
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just be more of an inward reaction because they've just learned over time that's how
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they're going to react to it, you know, that sort of thing.
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But I mean I wanted to ask you, though, like watching them back
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to back, how did that differ for you compared to the first time seeing
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these episodes split by a week. Yeah, I think that you hit on
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the head pretty well in the sense that they play together so smoothly. You
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know, it really does work as a duology more so than I think in
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some ways the split nature. I mean, you could almost just roll right
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into the next episode in the sense of like it could have been a wipe
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and then you know, you're in the next episode as if you put them
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all together. You know. I do think that one of the things that
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does, though help me with these being split episodes is the storyline for Omega
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in this first episode, in the sense that when she sits down and she
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has that conversation with Tech, you know, it brings it full circle for
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her, you know, so that by the end of the episode, you
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know, when they're talking about how they're going to have to find their own
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way, she says the same thing that Tech did, which is like,
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we'll find a way. It's what we do, you know, And and
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so that there has been a journey arc for her where she has learned something
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that's helping her be able to move forward and to be able to cope with
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the situation that she's in. You know, she's fine a way to be
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able to kind of process what's happened and now be able to find her way
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on the other side of it, you know, in this In this in
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the similar sense that you know, by them going underground, uh is reminiscent
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and and is an illustration of Omega's own metamorphosis, right that there is that
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kind of like depression and then coming out into the light at the end.
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And I think it's it's really beautiful that the episode that this episode, specifically
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the Crossing, really works like that, and I appreciate the fact that that
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it does. But one of the beauties of these seasons is being able to
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now, you know, watch them I think back to back and really enjoy
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the way in which, you know, each of these episodes can stand alone,
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but there is a joy of watching them thread the needle of the storyline
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throughout the entire season, you know. And in fact, we were talking
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before we started recording about that, that whole idea with like where they did
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that with Rebels right where you watch it again and you know every time now
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the person that the hair is talking to Folkrum is Ahsoka, and it changes
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your perspective, you know. And I think that's the beauty of getting to
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go back and do this now is that you know what's coming. So it
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kind of changes the way in which you watch the episodes and you pick up
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new things. And that's what makes you know, kind of talking about these
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episodes in this way a lot of fun. Yeah, it does. I
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you know what one last thing I want to sort of point to with the
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first episode in terms of the batch, that's very relatable and I think it
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it's interesting is you know, obviously, like we've been saying, everybody deals
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with grief in a different way, you know, and oh make it goes
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through the largest arc there she sort of shows them it's okay to feel it.
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But I can say from personal experience that the batch becomes highly relatable because
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I've been in the situation where I said, I just don't have time to
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think about this. I got to get to work, and you know,
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you have a loss and you're like, I got to go to my job.
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And the thing is that, I think is the quiet tragedy of how
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the Batch are dealing with it right, is they don't give themselves a day
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off. They're like, well he left, Okay, we got to go
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back to work. And it's like, well, what is the work for
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if you're not affording yourself time to be human? And that I think is
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a big thing as well, because that's a lesson that I think everybody comes
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back to. That's why you see so many things on social media where people
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are like, oh, this is how I feel about going to work and
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how it's draining me and everything like that. It's like, well, yeah,
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but are you going on vacation? Are you if you can obviously not,
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everybody's in the same situation, But are you taking a break? Are
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you unplugging? Are you actually taking time to just right set and not consume
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anything mentally and at night take a couple of hours off And by that I
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mean just not looking at anything and letting your brain process the day. And
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that's the sort of thing I think that the Batch are putting themselves through that
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I think Omega points them toward, is they're creating an undue strain on themselves
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by not processing grief, by not allowing themselves well. And I love that
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you say that, because you know that's going to be something that we see
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actually play out in this season in the sense of where we're going where they
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kind of find in the end this home base. But that's also willing to
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be a recurring theme as we move into the third season as well, right,
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with different characters. And so I think to be able like you pointing
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that out here allows us to be able to see the way in which you
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know, the writers, the animators and everybody have been thinking about these thematic
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elements throughout all three of these seasons and how they're continuing to compound with one
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another, and you do kind of get to a breaking point because another part
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of this, too is that you know that conversation you get between Tech and
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Omega is the fact, and you mentioned this earlier, it's that realization of
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the difference between the two. One truly is still a child and the other
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is in a full grown adult who's had experiences that he has had to find
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a way, even in his unique way, to work through right and to
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either be able to take with him and learn the lesson, or it's just
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completely it has to get he has to let it go or else he's not
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going to be able to function. And so that's I think the beauty of
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what they're doing here. And I think you mentioning almost like the inhumanity of
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what these clones have been put through. It strikes you here and specifically because
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of the way in which it's hitting Omega, and it allows us to be
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able to see the inhumanity of what a lot of these situations have put these
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clones through. And I really appreciate that. And it's the beauty of obviously
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the Clone War series, right, is that it has made the Clones human
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in a way we never ever thought what happened when we first watched the prequels,
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right, that we would feel so intimately about clones in a way of
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course that we never of course feel about stormtroopers. And I think that there's
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such a beauty to that. Yeah, I mean it's one of those things
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as well, where and I think this duology, the duology that precedes it.
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What those really highlight for me, and I think we've said this before,
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what have you, is the fact that the bad batch in many ways
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is a refined version of the original mission statement of the Clone Wars, before
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Lucas decided to bring the Jedi to have a greater presence in it is it
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was supposed to be originally in its original form following the Clones around, everybody
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talks about, oh, how do we reinvent Star Wars so that it doesn't
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need Jedi. Well, not everybody, but there are people you and I
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have encountered them where Oh, let's break Star Wars. Let's find out if
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we really need Jedi. And I think the Bad Batch is a quiet masterpiece
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in demonstrating that we don't need Jedi and Star Wars still works. But you
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have to know how to make the audience care about the arc that the characters
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are on. Ye. It's what you need to do is you need to
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root it in the world that we understand. The way you're going to get
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me to care about these unique characters is you have to make me plug into
15:07
the world in which they're operating. And basically the best way to do that
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is say, Okay, I'm going to take these characters and give them unique
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experiences in a world that I can refine, but which is already built,
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and so you allow the story to focus on these new characters and the world
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becomes a shorthand that I can understand. Right, it's the lens through which
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I'm looking at at these experiences and we're having these discussions and everything. So
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the batch, like I said, it's a quiet masterpiece in demonstrating how you
15:39
don't need Jedi anymore, you can do this. And you know, I
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think it's people are some people might be sleeping on that. I think that's
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a shame I think too. You know again, you pointing that out is
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one hundred percent correct, And I think it's the other reason for fans why
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they responded to the Mandalorian. You know, they did the same thing,
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right, Yes, And so I think there's there's something really, you know,
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kind of special about this series, and as it's as we've been rewatching
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it, I've just been struck by the genius of rooting this and something that
16:21
we were already so familiar with, but at the same time then being able
16:23
to expand into a place where, you know, fans always wanted to go.
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What was it like right after and the Empire too, both took over
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and what was the repercussion? And I think the beauty of that is that
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what happens. Then as we move into that second episode, we get that
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picture there are more and more people in the galaxy, like Maco, who
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are utilizing the the frustrations of the Empire and the motivations of the empire,
17:00
and the Empire not really caring about what people are going through to be able
17:06
to create their own little theefdoms that operate in the black market. And this
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is one of those places where I think everything really comes together so well in
17:18
that well. There's Additionally, the first time I watched it, I had
17:22
such regret that he dies at the end, because I thought to myself,
17:26
Ah, that'd be a great character to come back to. But especially this
17:30
time when I watched them work together, there's no way he comes out of
17:33
this. You can't leave that thread dangling. He's got to go down right,
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And so yeah, it works. It was a story decision that I
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didn't appreciate as much the first time around. Watching it this time, I'm
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like, I get it, yes, watching it unfold this way. And
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I think it's because the first time I saw it, I saw him as
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too much of a main character, and it's not. He's an accent.
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Yeah, he's a world building device. He's not an antagonist in the way
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that I was approaching him. Additionally, I had critiques of you know,
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the reason everybody turns on him is just like, well, hey, your
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mistake is you only had one golden child. You need at least ten percent
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of those kids to be vested in the way that you set things right up.
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Then you don't have one. If one person turns on you, eh,
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if three kids turn on you, and the other kids will still eat
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them for breakfast. But if you have a full ten percent of a population,
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you can pretty much keep things going the way that you like to.
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Yep. But not to get all as them off about it. But the
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other thing that I think is the brilliant subtle commentary. It's not so subtle
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where they say, you know, oh well he's a reflection of the way
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the galaxy is going. Yes, he absolutely is, and they address that.
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But there are painful shades of working or a large company where it like,
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I'm just going to give a lot of credit to the writing and the
19:07
focus, the editing everything, and really driving home the idea that companies have
19:15
a real gift for making people grateful for what they receive that they use site
19:22
of the fact that they're still getting screwed. That one kid is like,
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hey, I don't care, I got my big bowl, right ha ha
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ha. That's just the way the system works. And then he finds out
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exactly how bad he's got it too in relation, right WHOA Hang on a
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second, Like, I love the fact that on that little data pad you
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see basically the stock ticker, yes, showing the profits of the company,
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and it's like, huh, yeah, that is those are numbers that you
19:45
can fudge, aren't they sort of thing? So you know, it's it's
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a really brilliant piece of social commentary that I think, you know what,
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I'd love to get your take on it, because when I saw it this
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time, like, you know, this is the sort of social commentary that's
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brilliant because it doesn't matter whether somebody says I'm on this side or that side
20:06
of the argument, the argument works still, like it becomes a universal truth
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that everybody can say, oh, well, yeah, obviously, yep,
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no, I think that that's right. And part of that is is that
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you know, we never nobody likes to see people being taken advantage of,
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you know, nobody likes to have that pointed out, and you know,
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everybody wants to be the person who's you know, on the top right,
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or at least have the feeling that they're being treated fairly in some way.
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You know, we just we all have this this kind of understanding that that's
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the way the world should work, right, and when it doesn't, we
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get upset. And so I think the genius of the episode is to play
20:57
into that specific and on top of that, you know, I think,
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you know, it's one of the things where we're also utilizing, you know,
21:07
if you're a fan of cinema and anyway, both of these episodes are
21:11
playing with different ideas and moments that we've seen, whether it's the Lion King
21:15
with the first episode or here this is very much playing into you know,
21:21
the Temple of Doom. Uh and and so uh seeing that, and I
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think too, we instinctively have a real problem with children being taken advantage of.
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And so you're making a subtle commentary here about you know, child labor
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laws and you know, child children being forced to work in terrible conditions,
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you know, with people who don't care about them. And I think all
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of that you you pour all that together in the episode, and it's exactly
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what you're saying, where it's like, it doesn't really matter what side of
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the some sort of political aisle you're on. You just like see this episode
22:03
and you think, no, that's wrong, and that does need to change.
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Well, additionally, I think you could also layer on the fact that
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the true brilliance of the Empire is the Empire's not doing it it. Oh,
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we didn't know this guy was doing it, because all the Empire cares
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about is this whatever he's mining is getting to them, and the market's good,
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Oh what are they? Oh it's distant. I don't see what's happening
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over here. That's oh, we had no idea that this this, this
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company, this small company operating out of a remote location was doing this.
22:37
Oh no, yes, you're right. It's just like Palpatine has plausible deniability
22:41
on Camino, and so the Empire has plausible deniability here where it's like,
22:48
oh, oh no, of course that's wrong. We had no idea this
22:52
was happening, and so it just shows that so long as you keep it
22:56
distant from people, just like we were talking about on Corsont, nobody on
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Corsont knows what going on here. Nobody's going to nobody's going to care.
23:03
All they know is that they need their their minerals and their lifestyle to keep
23:07
going the way that it. Man, this is getting bleak, you know
23:10
like that, that's that's a really deep thing for an animated series to hit,
23:18
and somehow bad Batch gets away with it without getting called out as you
23:23
know, being subversive or anything like that. I think it's brilliant. I
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think it's brilliant. Well, and it's you know, at the end of
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the episode, we have them talking about this whole idea, right that we're
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seeing more and more of this across the galaxy, and that more and more
23:40
people are creating their own little thiefdoms where they're taking advantage of others and nobody's
23:47
doing anything about it. And then we have that moment where we're reminded if
23:51
there are people just like the Batch out there, and the Batch are basically
23:55
the proto rebels, they don't even know it. But then you can reflexively
23:59
bring it back to this is the cold political calculus. Sure, the Sith
24:04
hate the Jedi, and the Jedi had their problems and everything, but this
24:08
is a galaxy without Jedi, because the Jedi may have been imperfect, but
24:14
they could at least be sent out to resolve these sorts of things once somebody
24:18
told them about it. Right. If anything, the problem with the jedis
24:21
they became an organ. Let's not reprosecute all of that stuff. Right,
24:25
But when the Jedi were pointed toward a problem, they would say, Okay,
24:30
you're right, we have to fix this problem. Yes, And so
24:33
Palpatine getting rid of them. You understand why the political class goes along with
24:37
it is because now these profit margins can continue without any worry of those pesky
24:45
Jedi getting involved with the remnants of the Trade Federation or the Commerce Guild or
24:51
anything, or you know, you know, like it just fits in so
24:56
perfectly. Without even really thinking about that, it's like, oh, well,
25:00
yeah, obviously this is a galaxy without the Jedi, our protectors are
25:03
gone. So the chance of these wrongs being righted, the odds of that
25:08
just drop down precipitously close to zero unless you have a bad batch going around.
25:14
But that's just one group of people, you know. And then,
25:17
as we'll see later in the season, you see how that pushes somebody like
25:21
Saugerera even further down the tracks. And I think that the beauty of this
25:26
is that, again, the whole show is a microcosm of the macro and
25:33
the fact that Omega is realizing this is the thing that plays into then when
25:41
you're seeing you know, further shows like Rebels, or and Or and all
25:45
these things. Right, those attitudes that she's having are the same attitudes that
25:52
lead other people to recognize what's going on and then realize they can't not do
25:57
anything about it, that they have to step forward, that they have to,
26:03
you know, do something regardless of the cost to themselves personally. Right.
26:10
And I think I'm watching this series. I just rewatched and Or season
26:17
one not too long ago, and I'm just really struck by the way in
26:22
which so much of what they're doing in this show builds into the attitudes that
26:26
we see there where you know, you have like aman Mathma who's having to
26:32
you know, realize, Okay, what will she sacrifice for this belief that
26:37
she has And it's a lot apparently, you know, like getting her daughter
26:45
into a relationship with a chandrillin Mobster because she needs the ability to access finances
26:56
because the rebellion needs money, you know, like all of these terrible decisions
27:00
people have to make, you know, And it's the same type of thing
27:04
that again, this season of The Bad Batch is also building to the end
27:11
and the decisions that are going to be made by characters, right, And
27:15
so I think it's it's it's the beauty of when Star Wars is adding something
27:22
to itself is when it impacts the whole in such a positive way. And
27:30
I think that's the greatness of a series like The Bad Batch is that as
27:36
I'm watching it, it's it's not only impacting this series and these characters,
27:41
but it's impacting my understanding and enjoyment of the series to come and the series
27:47
before. And that's that's great storytelling, you know, it's just great storytelling.
27:53
It is that you said it earlier. It's threading the needle, and
27:57
it's a tough we've seen it's needle a thread for some, but when you
28:03
have a dedicated crew that really I mean, you know, like we've said
28:07
before, it's easy for people to look at us and say, oh,
28:10
you're fanboys about it and everything, but the reason we're fans of it is
28:14
because it works and it's as straightforward as that is, does it keep you
28:21
coming back every week? And I can honestly say that, you know,
28:23
we're doing this review of season two while season three is on, and I'm
28:29
starting to feel that pang of I don't want it to end, guys,
28:34
you know, because I know season three is the end. And I'm like,
28:37
as I revisit this and I'm watching season three at the same time,
28:41
all I can think to myself is, but I like, what's going on
28:45
here? Do we have to end it? You know? Like I hope
28:48
they have some sort of like magic trick up their sleeve like they did with
28:52
the back door pilot for bad Batch in season seven of The Clone Wars.
28:56
You know, maybe there's an episode coming up where I know there's another animated
29:00
project coming, because That's kind of where I'm at with it right now,
29:03
Like I need more, guys, you got you gotta give me more?
29:07
Please? This is this is my impassioned plea out in the airways right now
29:11
as we review season two, please give us more. Hey, and we
29:15
just watched something that's like Oliver Twist please, sir, Yeah, I have
29:18
Sam Yeah yeah, now no, I as you say that, I'm I'm
29:23
thinking to myself like the beauty of that is the way in which Star Wars
29:30
Animation has made itself indelible to the storytelling of Star Wars, that we would
29:36
feel like that, you know. So it's good to know, oh we're
29:38
gonna get you know, Tales of the Jedi Season two coming, and but
29:42
it's like, Okay, we need more Star Wars animation coming after this,
29:48
beyond that, like there has to be another series coming. And and I
29:52
think what we've learned too is that it works best in the animation style they
29:57
created for you know, the Clone Wars. I love Rebels, but I
30:03
also kind of almost wish that it had been in the same style. I
30:06
think it would have been great. Regardless, Star Wars animation deserves to continue
30:11
to exist because it's continued to be some of the best Star Wars storytelling of
30:15
all time. And so when something's that successful, uh, don't don't minimize
30:22
it, don't lose it, keep it coming to us. Because I'm gonna
30:26
say brass tacks right here. They know they have the stats. Whoever's my
30:32
Disney plus knows where that the audience exists. And you don't get rid of
30:36
something that has an audience. So That's that's where I hope it is.
30:40
Like you, you'd be foolish to shoot yourself in the foot like that.
30:42
Yes, you would be very foolish to do that. So you know,
30:48
hey, here here's high hopes and rewatching season two is a joy. But
30:55
Matt, I know that interacting with you online is also a joy. So
30:59
where can people'll find you online? Well, you know, I don't know
31:02
how much of a joy it is, but hopefully people feel it as though
31:04
it is a joy. You can find me all over social media under the
31:07
name Matt Rushing Zoe two. Of course, here on the network you can
31:11
find me doing owl Post with Drea Kaufman, as we talked about every single
31:15
chapter the Harry Potter series. You can also find me over on the TFM
31:19
network doing a bunch of shows. One is called the six oh two Club,
31:22
where we're talking about all of the franchises we love. Outside of Star
31:26
Trek, you'll also find me doing the Orb War five, the Artificial Tango,
31:32
Saddle Up, and literary tracks. But John, if people wanted to
31:36
catch up with you and see what's happening, where would they find you?
31:40
Well, if they want to make that bad decision, I'm Kessel Junkie Online
31:44
and you can also find me right here on the network. Aside from of
31:47
course my blessed guest appearances on the six ZHO two Club and other shows with
31:52
you, but I co host a show here called house Lights. It's a
31:55
film director podcast that I co host with Tristan Riddell and Darren Moser. We
31:59
have a lot of fun. But outside of that, I have to start
32:02
my letter writing campaign for you know, a series of short animated films I
32:08
think is what we could pitch for Disney. Set between Star Wars and Empire.
32:14
How about that? Or between Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones.
32:17
Let's go whole hog, guys, let's go nuts with it. I'm going
32:21
to start that campaign, but to do that after return to the Temple.
32:22
So I think it's time to close these negotiations. John, negotiations are closed.
32:32
Join the Revolution, Join the Nerd Party.