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Whatever happened to the Cubs’ wave of young pitching talent? · North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast

0:00
Speaker 1: For everyone we're talking about right now. It's lost developmental time,
0:03
Speaker 1: missed information for Jed and Carter and the rest of
0:06
Speaker 1: the front office to make decisions in the offseason. Welcome
0:14
Speaker 1: into north Side Territory Foul Territory Networks Cubs Podcast. I'm
0:18
Speaker 1: Sahad Sharma with Patrick Mooney where your Cubs beat writers
0:22
Speaker 1: at the Athletic and we are talking about the Cubs
0:26
Speaker 1: and their two game losing streak. Is that right, Yeah,
0:29
Speaker 1: two game losing streak after two tough losses to Cleveland.
0:33
Speaker 1: You know, Patrick, My initial feeling is like, you know,
0:36
Speaker 1: the best team in baseball, you lose two highly competitive games.
0:40
Speaker 2: Most of the times you just shrug that off.
0:42
Speaker 1: But I think Greg Council has set it for the
0:44
Speaker 1: past three weeks or so, like there's no margin for error,
0:48
Speaker 1: so it stings more. You have to win on Wednesday,
0:51
Speaker 1: you have to take care of business against bad teams.
0:54
Speaker 1: I just can't get two up in arms about these losses.
0:58
Speaker 1: But also it's a point of the season where you
1:00
Speaker 1: have to you have to win games, and and you know,
1:04
Speaker 1: little things didn't go their way. You could say whether
1:06
Speaker 1: it's there, you know, some defense that didn't go there,
1:09
Speaker 1: where this, Uh this guy Noel Big Christmas JD was
1:13
Speaker 1: calling him. Uh yeah, he's he's killed them. But you
1:19
Speaker 1: know this, this was two games against a really good team.
1:23
Speaker 1: I think the Cubs show me what they are. They're
1:26
Speaker 1: they're they're a perfectly solid team. They kind of just
1:30
Speaker 1: have done this most of the season. So I just
1:32
Speaker 1: I don't know what what more to say about it.
1:36
Speaker 3: Can we just have our great producing team behind the
1:38
Speaker 3: scenes just drop in like quotes we used months ago,
1:43
Speaker 3: you know, because you've already if you watched any Cubs
1:46
Speaker 3: game this season, you've seen these two games in Cleveland
1:49
Speaker 3: of like just things not totally clicking, and uh, you know,
1:55
Speaker 3: it's it's funny. The Big Christmas we were joking about that.
1:58
Speaker 3: I was like, I can't wait to see this guy
1:59
Speaker 3: in the Hall of Fame. I mean, probably the greatest
2:01
Speaker 3: hitter we've ever seen.
2:04
Speaker 4: And then.
2:06
Speaker 3: Just to me, it's just kind of funny being back
2:09
Speaker 3: in Cleveland. You were obviously there in the twenty sixteen
2:12
Speaker 3: World Series.
2:13
Speaker 4: And it brings back a lot of memories.
2:16
Speaker 3: If you were here, your mine would be going there
2:18
Speaker 3: as well, and it's just it's just weird to see,
2:21
Speaker 3: you know, kind of a half empty stadium, and you know,
2:26
Speaker 3: this team sort of creeping towards the edge of the
2:29
Speaker 3: wild card race. Just a different just a totally different vibe.
2:33
Speaker 3: And you mentioned the no margin for error. I actually
2:39
Speaker 3: said that to Council the other day of like, I
2:42
Speaker 3: know you've been saying this for like months now, but
2:46
Speaker 3: when you lose a game like a Shota game, where
2:49
Speaker 3: there's some you know, sloppiness defense, but you get a
2:54
Speaker 3: lot of offense, and you know, it's weird walking in
3:01
Speaker 3: that clubhouse because there's.
3:03
Speaker 4: Not a lot of like anger.
3:06
Speaker 3: And this is not like a criticism, and like major
3:08
Speaker 3: League Baseball players like process things in their own ways,
3:12
Speaker 3: but it is kind of I don't know, staggering to
3:18
Speaker 3: the right word. But just like how even Keel Counsel
3:22
Speaker 3: is all the time of just like running through display
3:28
Speaker 3: display that play need this, need that, Like just you know,
3:32
Speaker 3: you really wouldn't have any sort of idea of where
3:35
Speaker 3: the Cubs are at in the season if you just
3:37
Speaker 3: kind of dropped into any of these postgame press conferences.
3:41
Speaker 3: And he did flash some edge when I brought up
3:46
Speaker 3: you know, twenty eighteen, when I think the Brewers were
3:48
Speaker 3: like six games back right around Labor Day weekend, and
3:51
Speaker 3: he said in twenty nineteen two, and like that's all
3:56
Speaker 3: he said, And then I went into Baseball Reference, like,
3:59
Speaker 3: oh yeah, to us, I feel we remember that more
4:02
Speaker 3: as just like a Cub's implosion of just so many
4:04
Speaker 3: bad things going going wrong, whereas twenty eighteen, like the
4:10
Speaker 3: Brewers just played out of their minds, since.
4:13
Speaker 2: I wasn't a Cubs collapse. Yeah, yeah, the Brewers were great.
4:16
Speaker 3: And so it did make me think of like, Okay,
4:21
Speaker 3: they can avoid the sweep, get home, get right, like
4:26
Speaker 3: they have their kind of.
4:27
Speaker 4: Path moving forward. They're gonna need a lot of help.
4:30
Speaker 4: They're gonna have to play at an insane clip.
4:32
Speaker 1: But these teams all stink, Patrick, Yeah, I mean the
4:36
Speaker 1: non playoff ones, the ones that are out right now,
4:39
Speaker 1: they're not They're not good teams. Like I don't think
4:42
Speaker 1: any of them are. I shouldn't say they stink, they're
4:44
Speaker 1: just they're all the same like the Cubs. I think
4:47
Speaker 1: the Cardinals, like, go look at the Cardinals the rest
4:49
Speaker 1: of their season that it's really tough. They're not going
4:53
Speaker 1: to be above five hundred. In my opinion, they're gonna
4:55
Speaker 1: have to play great baseball to end the season above
4:57
Speaker 1: five hundred. I think they're five hundred right now. They
5:01
Speaker 1: have a tough schedule, like it's I just I'm sorry
5:06
Speaker 1: to cut you off, but I think it's laid out
5:10
Speaker 1: in front of them all these Every team lost except
5:12
Speaker 1: for the three wildcard teams, which obviously they're the ones
5:16
Speaker 1: you want to lose. But every team is losing. They're
5:20
Speaker 1: all losing. They're not very good. And you can make
5:23
Speaker 1: the same argument for the Cubs if you want to.
5:26
Speaker 1: But I feel like they're playing better baseball right now.
5:28
Speaker 1: They just that we said it last episode. They're entering
5:32
Speaker 1: this series against this is the final tough team they
5:34
Speaker 1: play for nineteen whatever it is, eighteen games, so it like,
5:40
Speaker 1: just play good baseball.
5:41
Speaker 2: If they play.
5:43
Speaker 1: Kind of like how they played yesterday or Monday, like
5:45
Speaker 1: I think it'll be fine. You don't want the like
5:48
Speaker 1: Monday was a little sloppy. The greatest er. I hate
5:51
Speaker 1: blaming umps, but there were some egregious calls over the
5:55
Speaker 1: past two days. That on Tuesday that off the corner.
5:59
Speaker 1: I don't know how well you can see it from
6:00
Speaker 1: the press box, but he called like sick and listen,
6:05
Speaker 1: the Cubs should have The Cubs didn't take advantage of
6:07
Speaker 1: the bloom calls that he had on them too. Like
6:09
Speaker 1: I was thinking about that Monday. The Guardians took advantage
6:12
Speaker 1: of a blown call bloom striking recall, there were a
6:16
Speaker 1: couple with men on base where the Cubs should have
6:18
Speaker 1: gotten wrung up. They didn't take advantage, so the Guardians
6:21
Speaker 1: take advantage. That's that's how baseball works, right, misses a call,
6:25
Speaker 1: either you take advantage or you don't.
6:27
Speaker 2: But sorry to cut you off.
6:29
Speaker 1: Like, I've just been watching these teams and I'm like
6:32
Speaker 1: they all stink.
6:33
Speaker 4: Come on, I think you're spot on with that.
6:37
Speaker 3: I think watching the Cubs, I can't say like, oh wow,
6:41
Speaker 3: this is good team either. But point was, He's like,
6:46
Speaker 3: I've noticed the tone of these questions that there's just
6:50
Speaker 3: kind of like since like the season is over something
6:54
Speaker 3: like that, We've got a lot of games in front
6:56
Speaker 3: of us, And I understand what he's saying, Like he's right.
7:00
Speaker 3: He did the whole roller coaster analogy, like even if
7:03
Speaker 3: your season's going great, there's still gonna be dips and
7:06
Speaker 3: you're gonna up and down and the whole roller coaster metaphors.
7:10
Speaker 3: So he's he's right in that sense. There is a
7:14
Speaker 3: significant chunk of the season left.
7:16
Speaker 4: It's just that the Cups have really backed.
7:19
Speaker 3: Themselves into a corner here, and so breaking down every
7:24
Speaker 3: single game like doesn't make a whole lot of sense
7:27
Speaker 3: to me until like, you know, just that baseline convscency
7:31
Speaker 3: of like winning more games than you lose. I think
7:34
Speaker 3: it's important not that you get banners for being above
7:37
Speaker 3: five hundred, but it's just like, okay, like, if you're
7:40
Speaker 3: not one of those bad teams, like you better start
7:43
Speaker 3: to show us now. And I think part of this
7:46
Speaker 3: episode we wanted to get into was like down the
7:49
Speaker 3: stretch here, part of the logic heading into the trade deadline.
7:54
Speaker 3: And you know why the Cups thought they'd be built
7:56
Speaker 3: for this race was pitching, specifically young pitching and the depth.
8:01
Speaker 4: They had, the talent they had.
8:02
Speaker 3: And I don't know, looking up here in the middle
8:05
Speaker 3: of August, and if you spend any amount of time
8:09
Speaker 3: looking into the future, it's sort of bleak right now.
8:14
Speaker 3: I think you know you followed the pitching side really well.
8:17
Speaker 3: You've seen the progress they've made, the choices they've made,
8:22
Speaker 3: And we can start with Ben Brown, Kate Horton, Jordan
8:26
Speaker 3: Wicks hidden with Eski you'll pick an injured pitcher.
8:31
Speaker 4: This is not about any one guy.
8:37
Speaker 3: I think it's hard to like ever know what a
8:41
Speaker 3: player is physically feeling, right, Like, it's not fair to
8:45
Speaker 3: ever like question one players, just that when you look
8:47
Speaker 3: at the volume of injuries here, it's impossible to not wonder,
8:51
Speaker 3: like what changes will made, how much can you count
8:55
Speaker 3: on these guys and kind of the sturdiness of this foundation,
8:59
Speaker 3: which had been in going this year a pitching centric organization.
9:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think we're seeing yet again why
9:10
Speaker 1: Jed and THEO and Jason McCloud when they first built
9:14
Speaker 1: this team didn't lean on pitching as far as development went. Now,
9:19
Speaker 1: granted they never developed pitching right, they just didn't do it,
9:23
Speaker 1: but they didn't succeed in that manner. But it's really
9:26
Speaker 1: hard to develop pitching. There's there's an old saying, it's
9:29
Speaker 1: called tin stap. There's no such thing as a pitching
9:32
Speaker 1: prospect because they get injured all the time. How many
9:36
Speaker 1: pitchers have the Dodgers developed this developmental machine? Where are
9:41
Speaker 1: all these pitchers, Gavin.
9:42
Speaker 2: Stone, I think is there? You know, it's because they
9:45
Speaker 2: all get injured. It's not because they all stink. They
9:48
Speaker 2: all get injured.
9:49
Speaker 1: River Ryan's getting Tommy Johnny comes out there and like
9:52
Speaker 1: it looks good and gets Tommy john I feel like
9:55
Speaker 1: every single time. So we have a slack channel at
9:57
Speaker 1: work every like every other day, Fabbian's in there talking about.
10:00
Speaker 2: Another picture injury.
10:02
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, And I'm not I'm not picking on the
10:04
Speaker 1: I'm just pointing out the Dodgers.
10:05
Speaker 2: It's all across the league.
10:07
Speaker 1: But the reality is it's happening to the Cubs too,
10:10
Speaker 1: and they're they've changed their methods, they're doing new things
10:13
Speaker 1: and guess what it can lead to injuries? Now, they're
10:16
Speaker 1: not all devastating arm injuries, right, there's one bad arm
10:20
Speaker 1: injury in the.
10:20
Speaker 2: ORG right now.
10:21
Speaker 1: As far as you know, guys that are in the
10:23
Speaker 1: majors are on the cusp. And that's that's Al's a
10:26
Speaker 1: lie right about to undergo Tommy john That's really tough
10:29
Speaker 1: that that's not ideal for them, A guy that had
10:32
Speaker 1: figured things out clearly. I don't think he was healthy
10:35
Speaker 1: all season long. I think he I don't know if
10:38
Speaker 1: he felt I don't think it was torn all season long,
10:40
Speaker 1: but I think he was.
10:41
Speaker 2: He was a little off. He just never seemed himself
10:44
Speaker 2: this season.
10:45
Speaker 1: Uh, the the ben Brown thing is just weird to me. Uh, Like,
10:53
Speaker 1: I know we've gotten like this, what is a benign
10:57
Speaker 1: neck something. It's like the like i'd I don't even
11:00
Speaker 1: know exactly what the wording was.
11:02
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think this week at least we got a
11:05
Speaker 3: degree of clarity or like a firmer update to where
11:12
Speaker 3: I was like, Okay, this is news, and that was
11:14
Speaker 3: that he was shut down. Council made a point of saying,
11:19
Speaker 3: don't talk about him in the past tense. But it's
11:22
Speaker 3: also becoming sort of unrealistic to think like, oh, he's
11:26
Speaker 3: going to be a major contributor down the stretch and
11:30
Speaker 3: I don't know if he will pitch at all again
11:32
Speaker 3: the season. And I think the weird part is the
11:37
Speaker 3: if you kind of track the updates, it was maybe
11:41
Speaker 3: scratched or pushed back from a start a while ago,
11:44
Speaker 3: sort of like a next stiffness thing, and then it
11:47
Speaker 3: was a stretch reaction which sounded really bad, right, And
11:53
Speaker 3: then it was framed as this kind of a unique
11:56
Speaker 3: injury that required a lot of, you know, multiple opinions
12:01
Speaker 3: and trying to figure out the best course of action.
12:05
Speaker 3: Then it was diagnosed as a strain and as sort
12:08
Speaker 3: of a best case diagnosis under these circumstances. And obviously
12:14
Speaker 3: he is not pitched in a long time and he's
12:16
Speaker 3: not being able to it's not been able to push
12:18
Speaker 3: through and have you know, symptom free experiences throwing. And
12:27
Speaker 3: so again, I think we both have been impressed with
12:31
Speaker 3: Ben Brown's not just his physical strength and skills, but
12:34
Speaker 3: he's a really thoughtful guy, Like he's really like a
12:38
Speaker 3: baseball rat or a baseball nerd. Just really loved like
12:43
Speaker 3: studying like the finer details of the game and figuring
12:46
Speaker 3: out ways to improve. We saw that in flirting with
12:50
Speaker 3: a no hitter. So like, none of this, any of
12:52
Speaker 3: these pictures we talk about, is like a personal attack
12:55
Speaker 3: or questioning, you know, their will to win or whatever
12:59
Speaker 3: Harrelson used to say. It's just there's a really complicated,
13:05
Speaker 3: weird situation that has not resolved itself other than the
13:10
Speaker 3: Cubs shutting him down.
13:12
Speaker 4: For this moment.
13:12
Speaker 3: And you look at the clock here on August fourteenth,
13:15
Speaker 3: like what can he build toward? How much runway is
13:18
Speaker 3: left for this season?
13:19
Speaker 4: Right?
13:20
Speaker 1: It almost feels like a best case scenario as he
13:22
Speaker 1: comes back as a reliever and helps in like five games,
13:28
Speaker 1: you know, down the stretch, like the final two weeks
13:31
Speaker 1: and he gets in five games. I think that feels
13:33
Speaker 1: like that would be a huge win for them if
13:36
Speaker 1: he can come back this season and help and get
13:38
Speaker 1: a couple more innings. And I think, you know, put
13:42
Speaker 1: aside like a playoff push here, right, like put competing aside.
13:48
Speaker 1: Like for everyone we're talking about right now, it's lost
13:51
Speaker 1: developmental time.
13:52
Speaker 4: Yeah.
13:52
Speaker 2: Lost, it's missed information.
13:56
Speaker 1: For Jed and Carter and the rest of the front
13:58
Speaker 1: office to make decisions in the off season right that
14:01
Speaker 1: they're losing out on information that they need. Jordan Wicks
14:05
Speaker 1: I believe will start tomorrow. So Thursday with Iowa, is
14:12
Speaker 1: that right?
14:13
Speaker 4: I think it would Friday. I think he was throwing
14:15
Speaker 4: a bullpen on.
14:18
Speaker 1: Tuesday, Okay, so maybe so Thursday could work. Thursday or Friday.
14:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that that would be his first outing.
14:29
Speaker 3: He would likely need two more outings with Iowa before
14:33
Speaker 3: the Cups, which is.
14:34
Speaker 1: Which is a little shift. We were told to maybe
14:37
Speaker 1: three total. Now it's definitely three four probably full.
14:42
Speaker 4: Yeah.
14:43
Speaker 1: I don't know if that had to do with he
14:45
Speaker 1: had such a short outing his first out and whatever
14:47
Speaker 1: it is they want him to do more updowns. I
14:49
Speaker 1: think he only went like one in two thirds or
14:51
Speaker 1: something like that his first game.
14:52
Speaker 3: I think it was how long he had gone in
14:54
Speaker 3: between appearances.
14:56
Speaker 1: It was okay clear then they just decided yeah, yeah, yeah.
15:00
Speaker 1: I mean he's back and he's pitching. I think that's
15:03
Speaker 1: the most important thing. He's healthy now. It appears he
15:05
Speaker 1: hasn't had another setback as of yet. He needs to
15:08
Speaker 1: get out there like that's it's imperative, like he has
15:12
Speaker 1: to get back to this team.
15:14
Speaker 2: And I don't know, like.
15:17
Speaker 1: What what's going on with Kyle Hendrix as far is that?
15:20
Speaker 1: So I know he's pitching on Friday or Saturday, whatever
15:23
Speaker 1: it may be. Is the did you get the sense
15:26
Speaker 1: I know Council isn't gonna announce this.
15:29
Speaker 4: Now, don't worry about it.
15:31
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah?
15:33
Speaker 1: Do you Are you getting the sense that when Wicks
15:35
Speaker 1: comes back, he'll take Hendricks's spot or is counsel gonna
15:40
Speaker 1: use six men to save Like I I just don't know,
15:44
Speaker 1: Like Council keeps that stuff close to the vest, So
15:47
Speaker 1: maybe maybe it's like exactly what you said, I'm just
15:50
Speaker 1: looking to get out said and we'll deal.
15:52
Speaker 3: With Hendricks was available out of the bullpen, I believe
15:58
Speaker 3: Monday night, and with the volume of off days in August,
16:02
Speaker 3: it kind of gave them some flexibility. And honestly, when
16:07
Speaker 3: you're talking about still needing three more rehab starts that like,
16:15
Speaker 3: I don't think this is like a pressing.
16:19
Speaker 4: Decision, but it does kind of.
16:24
Speaker 3: Go back to this larger issue of like the Cubs
16:28
Speaker 3: aren't below five hundred because they're pitching is bad, right,
16:31
Speaker 3: Like their bullpen was not figured out from the jump
16:34
Speaker 3: in al Zala is a great example of if he
16:38
Speaker 3: was locked in and healthy, the course of the season
16:45
Speaker 3: probably changes, right Like looking at Cleveland's closer class A,
16:51
Speaker 3: I mean, do Zra a start zero.
16:56
Speaker 4: Now? Like not saying the Cups should have signed Josh Hater,
17:00
Speaker 4: but like I.
17:01
Speaker 3: Think I saw something on the ticker last night of
17:03
Speaker 3: I think he blew a save and April and hasn't
17:08
Speaker 3: blown another since, And so like if you can lock
17:11
Speaker 3: that down Cleveland's starting rotation, our buddy Zach Misela has
17:16
Speaker 3: a really good story up on the Guardians resurgence, like
17:21
Speaker 3: they've figured it out, Like the rotation is not a
17:24
Speaker 3: traditional Cleveland powerhouse, but like their bullpen is just lights
17:28
Speaker 3: out and the Cubs have done a good job of
17:31
Speaker 3: sort of readjusting on the fly and bringing in you know,
17:35
Speaker 3: a Tyson Miller and kind of reorganizing and restructuring things.
17:40
Speaker 4: The rotation has been.
17:43
Speaker 3: Very good overall, but it's just this feeling of like
17:48
Speaker 3: they just needed more things to happen to like take
17:53
Speaker 3: this team to the next level. And you know, Kate
17:57
Speaker 3: Horton is part of this uncertainty here. He is a
18:02
Speaker 3: number seven pick in the twenty two MLB draft and
18:06
Speaker 3: he's had a setback. He's likely done for the season.
18:12
Speaker 3: It's a shoulder injury. He has not pitched since the
18:15
Speaker 3: end of May, when he had reached Triple A Iowa.
18:19
Speaker 3: And I think you were in New York like when
18:21
Speaker 3: that broke and we were talking with our editor, like,
18:24
Speaker 3: visit the headline.
18:25
Speaker 4: This is a dude, we have to put a headline
18:28
Speaker 4: on it.
18:29
Speaker 3: And now at this point, maybe he throws some innings
18:33
Speaker 3: in the Arizona Fall League. I would tend to doubt it,
18:36
Speaker 3: and then it's hoping he ramps up for spring training
18:40
Speaker 3: next year. And like that guy has like difference making talent,
18:46
Speaker 3: and you know, you just see we're talking about Jordan Wicks,
18:49
Speaker 3: another first round pick, and it's like you're trying to
18:54
Speaker 3: get a sense of the organization's momentum and what like
18:57
Speaker 3: the big picture plan is when you take these pieces out.
19:00
Speaker 4: Hidden was an Esky, a guy that was a trade
19:03
Speaker 4: deadline acquisition.
19:04
Speaker 3: Like when you add all these things up, it's just
19:07
Speaker 3: like this is why it's not their year.
19:10
Speaker 1: Right Yeah, And it just goes to show how hard
19:14
Speaker 1: it is to develop pitching, how hard it is just
19:16
Speaker 1: to be like well, I mean like you can never
19:20
Speaker 1: say like, well he's coming up, just make a just
19:22
Speaker 1: make a rotation spot for him, like yeah, never never
19:26
Speaker 1: say that. It's like it's just so risky with pitching. Patrick,
19:31
Speaker 1: I don't know if you if there was any discussion
19:34
Speaker 1: about it is surgery, like not something that's being considered
19:38
Speaker 1: at all at this point with Hrton.
19:41
Speaker 3: I had that on my list of questions and had
19:44
Speaker 3: already asked like three or four different aid or questions
19:47
Speaker 3: and the small group.
19:49
Speaker 4: But the way.
19:51
Speaker 3: Carter Hoggins explained it was that did not seem to
19:54
Speaker 3: be on the table right now that it was more
19:58
Speaker 3: of a It's funny right when it came up, like
20:03
Speaker 3: the progressive field PA just started blasting music and like
20:07
Speaker 3: there's no one there, and like Carter's voice just it
20:12
Speaker 3: just wasn't not that he has like a low not
20:15
Speaker 3: that he's a low talker, but it just was not
20:17
Speaker 3: like a booming voice given the acoustics at that moment,
20:22
Speaker 3: but no, it was it just sounded more like.
20:23
Speaker 4: He's not starting over. Its just that they pulled him
20:27
Speaker 4: back in his progression.
20:29
Speaker 3: A there's just not that runway and they did not
20:34
Speaker 3: think it makes sense to push it right now because
20:37
Speaker 3: you know, the abundance of caution or whatever they like
20:41
Speaker 3: to say.
20:41
Speaker 4: But you know, so I wouldn't speculate on on that.
20:46
Speaker 4: It did not seem like.
20:50
Speaker 3: Something that would require that like immediately. But obviously like
20:54
Speaker 3: they need to heeds to get some like positive indicators here,
20:59
Speaker 3: right and like that information you're talking about of like
21:01
Speaker 3: what like what do they have? It's become a bigger
21:07
Speaker 3: question mark. And I think they would have projected going
21:09
Speaker 3: into this year.
21:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean, you know, we'll we'll do a
21:15
Speaker 1: bigger dive into this once the season, once the minor
21:19
Speaker 1: league season is done, I'll start talking to some people.
21:21
Speaker 2: But I don't know if you could say that this.
21:24
Speaker 1: Was, you know, a great minor league season for them, right, Like,
21:31
Speaker 1: there were definitely some good, good things that a lot
21:34
Speaker 1: of those guys, the position players that got up to
21:36
Speaker 1: Triple A, there's some there's some lesser known names. As
21:42
Speaker 1: far as the pitchers go, I think it's bird Cell
21:48
Speaker 1: is doing well at Triple A, Connor Noland is having
21:52
Speaker 1: a solid season. But these are like guys that you
21:56
Speaker 1: would say, like, if they end up in the big leagues,
22:00
Speaker 1: that's a win, and if they end up like a
22:03
Speaker 1: fifth starter on a winning team, huge huge success. Right
22:09
Speaker 1: While Kate Horton, Ben Brown, Jordan Wicks, Hayden Wisnski are
22:13
Speaker 1: all guys that are like you look at and you'd
22:17
Speaker 1: like to be key contributors on a winning team. If not,
22:21
Speaker 1: you know, lynchpins on a winning team, right, especially.
22:28
Speaker 4: In the draft like you have. And then even.
22:33
Speaker 3: Even Wicks, you know, I think, yeah, he may not
22:35
Speaker 3: have had the ceiling of a Horton, but his profile
22:38
Speaker 3: is like a sturdy, reliable major league starting pitcher who
22:42
Speaker 3: would be on a fast track and who has a
22:44
Speaker 3: lot of aptitude and a lot of interest in kind
22:48
Speaker 3: of game planning and a sophisticated view of you know,
22:51
Speaker 3: kind of analytics and technology and how to navigate a
22:55
Speaker 3: lineup and just taking that off the table for this
23:00
Speaker 3: long just.
23:02
Speaker 4: A huge developmental loss. Like there's kind of no way
23:05
Speaker 4: around that.
23:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's a it's a tough year for them
23:10
Speaker 1: as far as pitching development goes. I think it's a
23:14
Speaker 1: big reason why we talked about last episode. Catcher should
23:18
Speaker 1: be number one, is will be expected to be the
23:21
Speaker 1: number one priority for this team. As far as upgrading,
23:25
Speaker 1: I think I don't think they should ignore the rotation.
23:27
Speaker 1: I'm not saying they're going to go out and get
23:29
Speaker 1: Corbyn Burns. I think they should look in the Jamison
23:34
Speaker 1: Tyne level of pitcher. I think they should consider that. Again,
23:39
Speaker 1: it's essentially it's showed us steal and Tyne locked in right,
23:45
Speaker 1: and then Asad has had a great season results wise,
23:49
Speaker 1: I get a little worried about the walks and and
23:52
Speaker 1: how many innings he can actually throw, and like you
23:56
Speaker 1: just want depth, right, Hendricks is likely gone.
24:01
Speaker 4: Beyond that.
24:02
Speaker 1: It's like what what are you looking at?
24:05
Speaker 4: Like?
24:05
Speaker 1: Who you want some certainty? And we just went over
24:09
Speaker 1: four names and there's no certainly. I don't care how
24:12
Speaker 1: good those guys can be. Like I think Ben Brown
24:17
Speaker 1: impressed me when he was on the mound this year.
24:19
Speaker 1: He was impressive. Hayden Wisneski has seen flashes for this
24:24
Speaker 1: is the third season now that we've seen flashes. I
24:27
Speaker 1: don't know if he gives you any stability or certainty.
24:31
Speaker 1: Jordan Wick's saying it flashes. I like him, I like
24:34
Speaker 1: his upside. I like what he can be steady back
24:37
Speaker 1: of the rotation, mid rotation arm and we have no
24:40
Speaker 1: clue with Kate Horton right. Ultimately, we have no clue
24:43
Speaker 1: with any of those guys. I think they should add
24:45
Speaker 1: some certainty. I don't you know we can. That's an
24:49
Speaker 1: off season project to look at the names and talk
24:53
Speaker 1: to people and see who they may target. But but
24:57
Speaker 1: it has to be something that they consider because you
24:59
Speaker 1: cannot go into I just don't think you can go
25:03
Speaker 1: in relying on kids and expect to be a big
25:08
Speaker 1: thing with this team. When we're talking about when we
25:11
Speaker 1: get back to where they are right now, where they
25:13
Speaker 1: were last year, the final win total they're projected to
25:17
Speaker 1: be around it this year, probably like an eighty two
25:20
Speaker 1: eighty three win team. You want to get to be like,
25:24
Speaker 1: you want to feel like your projections have you at
25:27
Speaker 1: eighty eight to ninety that's where you want to be.
25:30
Speaker 1: That's when where this season, say they're projected to be
25:33
Speaker 1: eighty three, they've played below that pace. And that's because
25:36
Speaker 1: things don't always go exactly right. And when you're an
25:39
Speaker 1: eighty three projected team, you didn't build anything. You didn't
25:43
Speaker 1: build enough certainty or enough you know, margin for error. Yes,
25:47
Speaker 1: so get to eighty eight, get to ninety projection, then
25:50
Speaker 1: eighty five. If you're under and you're at eighty five,
25:53
Speaker 1: some bad things happen, bad luck and bad injury, luck,
25:56
Speaker 1: whatever it is, eighty five can get you a you know,
25:59
Speaker 1: into shouting distance at least for that wild card. Right,
26:03
Speaker 1: So you that and that's the bad season that you have.
26:06
Speaker 1: You don't want like, it's just you're relying too much
26:10
Speaker 1: on the good things happening right now with this team.
26:13
Speaker 1: So that's add a good starter. Get some get some depth,
26:18
Speaker 1: and then Ben Brown and Jordan Wicks and all those
26:20
Speaker 1: guys are your depth, right, Moyses Biasterius, Oh in casey
26:24
Speaker 1: Matt shar your depth.
26:25
Speaker 2: Like then you don't work.
26:26
Speaker 1: Like when you have those guys as depth, you feel
26:29
Speaker 1: good about your team.
26:30
Speaker 2: That's how That's how I look at it.
26:32
Speaker 4: And I mean, are you going to be banking on
26:34
Speaker 4: next year?
26:35
Speaker 3: Showed to Jamison and still all having eras and kind
26:40
Speaker 3: of the low threes and combining for roughly eighty starts.
26:46
Speaker 3: I mean, we'll see where everything ends up. But I
26:49
Speaker 3: mean it's been, uh, we obviously focused on the natives here,
26:53
Speaker 3: but there's some fantastic individual performances in the rotation and
26:58
Speaker 3: a lot of resourceful in putting the bullpen back together.
27:04
Speaker 3: It just has been one of those seasons where things
27:07
Speaker 3: have not lined up and they have not consistently executed
27:12
Speaker 3: in every phase of the game to degree that you
27:16
Speaker 3: can consider them a serious playoff contender.
27:20
Speaker 4: And so we'll see. We'll be back.
27:24
Speaker 3: On the off day to kind of lay out the
27:27
Speaker 3: rest of this, but you know, it's been a very
27:32
Speaker 3: interesting sort of.
27:37
Speaker 4: Week in Cleveland here so far.
27:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll see if we're they you know, just to
27:43
Speaker 1: make Cubs fans feel a little bit better about about
27:45
Speaker 1: this upcoming stretch that they need to end this road
27:49
Speaker 1: trip with the win I think in Cleveland and just
27:51
Speaker 1: just come away with one w there. It's no shame
27:55
Speaker 1: in losing a series to this team, but you just
27:58
Speaker 1: don't want to get swept right now, too much going on,
28:02
Speaker 1: to too little margin for error. So if they come
28:05
Speaker 1: away with the win and then have a good weekend
28:06
Speaker 1: against Toronto, you know, right back to you know, talking
28:10
Speaker 1: about the playoffs or on the periphery of the playoffs.
28:13
Speaker 1: And like I said, this just I just don't see
28:16
Speaker 1: these teams ahead of them outside of that are outside
28:19
Speaker 1: of the playoffs. I just don't see them as like
28:22
Speaker 1: significantly better or even better than the Cubs. They're all
28:24
Speaker 1: kind of bunched together. It's about catching Atlanta or hoping
28:28
Speaker 1: that San Diego or Arizona get get cold. I don't
28:31
Speaker 1: I don't see that happening, to be honest. But again,
28:34
Speaker 1: they're they're on heaters. Can the Cubs get on one
28:37
Speaker 1: of those heaters? That's that's what we'll be watching for
28:39
Speaker 1: over the next three ish weeks. All right, thanks for
28:43
Speaker 1: listening everyone, This is north Side Territory.
28:45
Speaker 2: Make sure to rate, review, and subscribe.
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Speaker 1: Subscribe on the YouTube channel and or wherever else you
28:51
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Make sure to read Patrick in my
28:54
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28:55
Speaker 2: Subscribe to that. We'll be covering the Cubs all.
28:59
Speaker 1: Fall and winter long, So get on board, and thanks
29:03
Speaker 1: for listening.
29:03
Speaker 2: To everyone take care,