Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Dylan Rees & Luke Molloy about their choice of Hell Bent

Transcript

Talks to Dylan Rees & Luke Molloy about their choice of Hell Bent · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:22
  None. Hamster with a blunt pen knife
• 0:35
  for doing quicker. Quicker Hello and welcome back
• 0:41
  to A Hamster with a Blunt pen knife, the Doctor Who commentary
• 0:44
  podcast You Got Me, Luke Malloy. You've got everyone's favorite
• 0:48
  host, Dylan Reese. Hello.
• 0:53
  It's true. And you've got everyone else's
• 0:56
  favorite host, Doko Ho himself, the Homo Ho.
• 1:02
  Can I say right earlier on I said someone goes to me, oh you
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  doing those two episodes with who have you cherry picks from
• 1:09
  your entire audience. And I said my 2 lovers and they
• 1:12
  went, oh Dylan and Luke, I was like that's.
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  Right. I do have my clothes on this
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  time though. You do?
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  Yeah. Thank God.
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  I don't. I've got a top on but downstairs
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  nothing. Can you stand up at some point?
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  So what we do today? Where we going?
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  Have you ever been bent over so badly you felt like you were in
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  hell? As I can tell, Luke's yet to
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  experience it but be a game changer.
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  OK, OK, maybe I should try. Yeah, maybe was that that
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  Nicholas Briggs look alike and old ball.
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  Oh, what's scary? I've always known as the man in
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  the towel. What's gay fella, Right.
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  Well, I mean, Hell Ben. Everyone, every fan has a lot to
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  say about Hell Ben. I think perceptions definitely
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  changed between the nights it went out and and now, and I can
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  definitely be a reflection of this because I will tell you
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  what my Facebook post was the night held that went out.
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  Do you want to hear that now or do you want to hear it in?
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  A minute? No, I want to know.
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  Because you guys, you know, threw a ton of facts at me about
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  Heaven sent at the beginning of the episode to try and suggest
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  that it was a classic. So where did Hell Bent come in?
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  The Doctor Who survey? Where's that land?
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  Oh, I don't know, actually in the official poll.
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  Yeah. Does that end up in the in the,
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  you know, the the overall top 20 or 50, like I haven't sent it?
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  I wouldn't. I don't think it's in the top,
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  but it's definitely not in the bottom I don't think.
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  I think it's somewhere in the middle now I.
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  Think you're absolutely right when you say opinion shifting.
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  I think if you rated it on the night it went out, it would be
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  bottom. But I don't think, I don't think
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  opinion shifted, you know, entirely favourably.
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  I still think this is very divisive.
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  Yeah, I do as well. But I wonder if it's just
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  divisive with people that have never gone back.
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  And we watched it because a lot of people have strong opinions
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  on Doctor Who. They've actually only seen the
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  episode once or twice. Yeah, I went back and re watched
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  it today, you know, And as I've already said, I did find it far
• 3:22
  more enjoyable while still thinking it's pretty crap.
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  I did find it a lot more enjoyable than I ever have in
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  the past. I had no idea I was completely
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  out of step with fandom on this because I I loved it when it
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  broadcast. Dylan, I I knew you didn't like
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  it. But I didn't think like fandom
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  in general was like fuck this episode.
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  I loved it on broadcast as much as I loved the week before.
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  Like I thought it was the the best 2 parter Dr. Who had done
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  at that point. I would like to point out
• 3:48
  though, that the three seasons that we've identified that Dylan
• 3:52
  Reese really loves in the new series are Series 6, which is
• 3:56
  massively divisive, Series 9, which is kind of panned and
• 4:02
  Flux, which, well, it's Chris Chibnall, so I.
• 4:05
  Wouldn't say Series 9 is kind of panned.
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  I would say that people generally say OK, that's what
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  not one of my favourites, but I wouldn't say it's panned.
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  But I do think, having said, there's a lot of heavy lifting.
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  I reckon if we did like a Power of Seasons 9 Wooden rank.
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  It would be my lowest out of the 1st 10.
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  Really. No.
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  Yeah. Yeah.
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  Six would be my lowest out of. The first ten No, no, no, no.
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  So it's interesting you say that and we were talking earlier
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  about you know whether the general public or watching this,
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  but this has got 86% of Rotten Tomatoes.
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  So that that that's very popular.
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  New York Magazine gave it five out of five.
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  Radio Times gave it five out of five.
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  IGN gave it 9.3. It's only SFX Magazine and TV
• 4:51
  Fanatic who go three out of Five AV Club, A Minus Paste magazine.
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  I do I. Do so out of step with all of
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  these, critics said when they were so in step with them for
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  having sent. I would tell you the answer.
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  I remember looking at the the reviews at the time and them all
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  being positive and proper scratch in my head, but it was
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  because we were fans. I think what happened was it was
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  the doctors got to Gallifay. We've been waiting for like
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  years and years for him to get here.
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  What's he going to do next? But we're all expecting him to
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  assassinate Rascal on burn the capital to the ground using
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  Silver Nemesis, and then resurrect the nightmare
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  childhood. That sounds amazing.
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  Gallifrey somewhere. And then what actually happens
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  is we reject that that bore in traditional Gallifrey story and
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  make it a proper unique character piece on a Doctor
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  companion relationship we've never seen before.
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  You. Say that it does reject it, but
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  it does play out your boring Gallifrey story for about 20
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  minutes. Oh no, I don't think it does
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  well. I think it is.
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  Well, I'll point out all the cliches as we're going through.
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  There's so at the time I remember no this can play
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  everywhere from fans, fan Youtubers and stuff like that
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  would be hell bent. It's really good for 15 minutes
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  and then they bring car into it and it all goes shit.
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  And I think I held that opinion for a bit.
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  Well though, you watch it and now I've got the absolute
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  opposite opinion where I think the 1st 15 minutes are shit or
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  not shit but a bit boring and then then the last 45 are
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  brilliant. I mean that every second.
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  That scene in The Cloisters is honest to God.
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  Unbelievable. The, the the the conversation
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  between Clara and Capaldi. The set for the cloisters.
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  The conversation. Are you kidding me right now?
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  She goes. Right.
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  We're going to have a conversation because now is the
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  time to do it and then we cut away from the conversation.
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  No, because there's the one where she goes.
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  Literally, that is what happens. I watched it this morning.
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  Yeah, yeah, it is what happens. But.
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  So why would you cut away from the meaningful conversation?
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  Why would you do that? Why would you put yourself feel
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  that pain? And he just says because I had a
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  duty of care and it's oh, it really hits.
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  Roswell, the world's most boring woman.
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  Why on earth would he have a great care of her?
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  He's not. Boring.
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  Lousy, Tedious. She's she's better than fucking
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  Ruby Sunday. Dylan, you gotta give her.
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  More than she ain't as good as she has, but.
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  Do you prefer? You know?
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  I think I do prefer. Yes, you're right.
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  I mean, yes, it's at least the same person from the.
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  First step so to. The last Clara's gone for about
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  900 iterations by the time we leave her, and has had about 15
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  exits. This this won't pay post me in a
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  good light whatsoever, but I think it's it's definitely it's
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  definitely what an interesting read so I will read it.
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  This is my Facebook please this is my Facebook post from the 6th
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  of December 2015. Again, I'll caveat this that
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  this was probably about two in the morning because I've been
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  out, but here we go. Before you say anything, can we
• 7:57
  just say this? This is this is literally like
• 7:59
  Luke Malloy's Ian Levine moment. Yeah, it it really is.
• 8:03
  This is his Tele smash moment. The thoughts and words of Luke
• 8:07
  Malloy do not represent the feelings of myself or Joe Ford.
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  That's right. My feelings are even more
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  passionate than his. Off you go.
• 8:15
  I'm sorry. Doctor Who was just the most
• 8:17
  disappointing finale I've ever seen.
• 8:19
  I would regard myself as a big fan at 20 minutes in.
• 8:23
  I thought it was far too self indulgent and very hard to
• 8:26
  follow but by the time the story ends nothing has been gained
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  over and by the whole hour apart from a stupid misgender
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  regeneration. 14th Doctor is going to be a woman I'm calling
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  it and some fans service with the old style TARDIS films at
• 8:39
  the Cardiff Doctor Who Experience I wonder.
• 8:42
  I sat watching with a fan who's never seen a Peter Capaldi
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  episode. After watching it, she said
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  didn't understand a thing and I won't watch it again.
• 8:54
  I can't at all disagree with that.
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  If someone introduced me to this new show, consider it's being a
• 9:00
  good quality series most of the time.
• 9:02
  With rumours of ratings going down, I don't think a worse
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  episode at all could have heard. You might as well have shown a
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  repeat of Fear Her, and it would have added more than the tribe
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  of keeping Clara alive for another 45 minutes.
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  Kudos to Peter Capaldi and Jenna Coleman for doing the best with
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  this terrible script. Moffett, I do usually like and
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  support your work, but this has been the worst piece of tripe
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  you've difficult since. Let's kill him.
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  Oh, you're publicly recanting your support, Steven.
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  I bet he was quivering in his boots.
• 9:32
  If things couldn't get any worse, they showed a trailer.
• 9:36
  Was it a trailer for the Christmas special?
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  Which was the most worst edited and terribly looking thing I've
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  seen in a long time. It only added to the thoughts
• 9:44
  that this is a dying show on its last legs, trying to stay alive
• 9:48
  for one more year, even though deep down most people know it
• 9:51
  will fade, With the last thought being it never got better once
• 9:54
  David Tennant left. Not an opinion I personally
• 9:57
  agree with, but the opinion that will stick once it goes off
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  there. Wow.
• 10:04
  I would like to say that Luke Malloy's critical analysis has
• 10:07
  improved substantially since then.
• 10:09
  Go check out his countdown because it's a lot more balanced
• 10:12
  SO2. Things number one, were you not
• 10:15
  a fan of the of the idea of a female doctor at that point?
• 10:18
  No, not at this point. It was definitely sort of midway
• 10:22
  through series 10. I feel like you could feel it
• 10:23
  coming that. And then, yeah, I must have just
• 10:27
  got definitely by the point when they announced the 13th Doctor,
• 10:30
  I was very excited. And my, as I've said all many
• 10:34
  times, my choice would have been Ruth Wilson, just because she
• 10:36
  had that weird sort of look to her, that strange Mystique look
• 10:39
  to her, that I was like, Oh yeah, she'd make a great doctor.
• 10:43
  And that was the first time I'd ever personally thought of like
• 10:46
  a woman playing the Doctor. At this point I was just like
• 10:50
  change. My, my, my second question is
• 10:53
  what Doctor Who final episode of the season would you use to show
• 10:57
  somebody that hasn't been watching?
• 10:59
  It's like at any point you you drop into a Doctor Who season
• 11:04
  finale and and you haven't seen the preceding episodes, it's
• 11:08
  going to be a tough watch. It's it's that you read it back
• 11:12
  and I sound like every not my doctor of the past five years
• 11:15
  like the the opening. Especially if like I would
• 11:18
  regard myself as a big. Show even further back than
• 11:21
  that. Look, the thing that stood up
• 11:23
  most from that analysis was you saying I'm sorry at the
• 11:26
  beginning, as if every fucking person is waiting on your
• 11:29
  opinion and I expect continue to like this thing.
• 11:32
  And you're saying sorry for the fact that you didn't?
• 11:36
  Yeah, I mean that's Doctor Who found him in a nutshell.
• 11:38
  I also love that it's a it's a dying show on its last legs, but
• 11:41
  I'm already hypothesizing about the 14th Doctor being a woman
• 11:45
  at. Least you didn't start it with
• 11:48
  as a lifelong Doctor Who fan, which is is the equivalent of
• 11:51
  someone opening a a sentence. I'm not racist, but that.
• 11:56
  What's interesting about Imagine how how shocked that Luke could
• 11:59
  be if if you found out the 14th Doctor actually was David.
• 12:04
  Imagine if that Luke could join this call now.
• 12:06
  He'd be appalled at you, wouldn't he?
• 12:08
  Yeah. The worst thing about all, he'd
• 12:10
  say? What's happened to you?
• 12:11
  The worst thing about all of it is that I had to stand to fear
• 12:14
  her and it was there any need. What's interesting going into
• 12:20
  hell, Ben, is we've got somebody who just said he loves every
• 12:23
  single second of it. I'm very on the fence with it
• 12:26
  because I think there's some big problems, but there's some good
• 12:28
  stuff in there. And look, you said you kind of
• 12:30
  have some issues with the beginning, but you love the
• 12:32
  ending. So we've got three very
• 12:34
  different voices on this one. Yeah, I mean, I sort of love, I
• 12:38
  love that post just because it's it's outrage and disgust and
• 12:43
  it's passion. I just can't imagine, like, I'm
• 12:45
  actually getting angry at Doctor Who, but not like, not like that
• 12:48
  anymore, you know? It's sort of like I can.
• 12:50
  Remember, right? Signing off my review, my Doctor
• 12:53
  Who review on Nightmare and Silver with This is as close as
• 12:56
  I've come to saying goodbye to Doctor Who.
• 13:00
  Like anyone gives a fuck. But Help Ben is a is a story of
• 13:07
  love and subversion and the fact that my opinions everything is
• 13:11
  subverted on it to that of love is it's great.
• 13:16
  Great link that. Great.
• 13:17
  Link. Shall we go in and watch the
• 13:19
  thing? Yeah.
• 13:22
  Shall I count us in? Yeah, in 54321 play.
• 13:29
  I want you to find every single post you've ever written now and
• 13:34
  a pertinent episodes. Read them out.
• 13:36
  What a joy that was. I don't think I did it too
• 13:39
  often. That was a proper break because
• 13:41
  I didn't like actually telling people that I was that much of a
• 13:45
  fan, if you know what I mean, That that only got posted
• 13:48
  because it was three in the morning and I've been out and I
• 13:50
  was angry and I was drunk that and it was like, I don't give a
• 13:53
  shit. Now look at him.
• 13:54
  He's posting pictures of himself in the locations of the Android
• 13:57
  invasion. All over social media.
• 14:00
  Things have changed A. Story of love and subversion.
• 14:03
  Oh, there's some lovely It's that Cod America music that
• 14:06
  Murray Gold does really well at the beginning of this.
• 14:08
  Love it. I I love, I love so that you get
• 14:11
  the Previously trailer and you're expecting this big
• 14:13
  Gallifrey, this big Gallifrey moment.
• 14:16
  And here we are in a diner in America.
• 14:19
  It's just like it's Moffett pulling the rock as he always
• 14:22
  does. I love the fact that when we go
• 14:23
  in this diner, there's finally some fucking colour on the
• 14:26
  screen. Rah Oh no, he's got that
• 14:30
  electric guitar. Midlife purposes.
• 14:34
  It's really, it's really well used in this episode.
• 14:37
  Also, the Doctor can have a midlife crisis.
• 14:42
  The Doctor can have a midlife crisis.
• 14:44
  I mean if, if, if this is anything that this series is, is
• 14:48
  midlife crisis. It's embarrassing.
• 14:50
  It's supposed to talk to the equivalent of Peep Show, though
• 14:52
  I don't want to see him having a mid life crisis.
• 14:54
  It's a bit embarrassing. We've got Fox's version If Don't
• 14:57
  Stop Me Now in the background here.
• 15:00
  We've got Foxy fucking Plaro. Looks hot as hell in that.
• 15:03
  Yeah, she does. I swear I'm on the turn with you
• 15:07
  boys, you know. Muffet knew what he was doing.
• 15:11
  I mean, I would. I would.
• 15:13
  She's she's not going to shag you, unfortunately, mate.
• 15:17
  The office. There.
• 15:20
  Not that you're not a very he's. Not like everybody else.
• 15:23
  Shut up. You had your chance.
• 15:29
  No. Look, they're smiling at each
• 15:31
  other. It's it's just gorgeous.
• 15:33
  Like this is what I missed last week.
• 15:36
  Do you know what you always I mean, like, not you, but what
• 15:38
  you always forget when watching Hell Bent.
• 15:41
  Is that one of them? You always assume that he's gone
• 15:45
  to visit a Clara Splinter. Oh, yeah, definitely.
• 15:48
  On the first thing. You think that the Doctor's got
• 15:50
  his memories? Yeah, that's that's what it was
• 15:52
  playing on. Definitely at the time.
• 15:54
  The Doctor seems like he knows who she is and she doesn't know
• 15:57
  who he is. But actually it's the reverse.
• 16:00
  Yeah, I assumed it was a splinter first time around.
• 16:02
  Yeah. Oh, I just assumed it was that
• 16:05
  woman on the cover of Doctor Who Magazine that we've seen months
• 16:09
  earlier. That is annoying though, isn't
• 16:12
  it? That is annoying that they did
• 16:13
  that. So we knew it would be a much
• 16:16
  better surprise if we didn't. There was no point that that.
• 16:19
  At any point, did anybody think that Clara was going to die one
• 16:23
  episode from the? End No, it does.
• 16:24
  It does always shock me when fans are like, oh, it was so
• 16:27
  good in face the Rover and then they undid it.
• 16:29
  I was like, why did you fall for it?
• 16:32
  I mean, the only reason it was annoying for me though was
• 16:34
  because we've already said goodbye to her in last
• 16:36
  Christmas. We've already said goodbye to,
• 16:38
  you know, about three times already and it's like, okay now
• 16:40
  we've finally said goodbye to her.
• 16:42
  Our way is she is again. She's never going like we when
• 16:45
  he Lombard with this bloody character.
• 16:46
  I'm still the end of time. I mean, the only criticism faced
• 16:49
  the rave. You can understand why they do
• 16:50
  it, because it's a good, a good thing on the night.
• 16:52
  But they did get really hard into it.
• 16:55
  They didn't really try and sell the fact that she's dead.
• 16:58
  Well, we've just had heaven said that did try and sell it quite
• 17:01
  hard. Didn't it I love.
• 17:04
  Shot Look at that. I love this Gallifreyan
• 17:07
  landscape. I'm not sure about those towers
• 17:09
  right in the background there, but the Dome looks great.
• 17:12
  It looks a bit matte painted, doesn't it?
• 17:13
  Rather than CGI, do. You know what he does in this
• 17:16
  episode as well? Murray Gold?
• 17:17
  He does. He doesn't do it very often.
• 17:18
  He puts whistling in, doesn't he?
• 17:20
  Yeah, but the isn't. That a bit.
• 17:25
  Yeah, no, you just. Do monthly.
• 17:28
  I don't think the mic could could pick him up.
• 17:31
  Oh, I was whistling. Yeah.
• 17:32
  Oh, right. Yeah, it just looked like you.
• 17:33
  You'll have to drop. I was just blowing your kisses,
• 17:35
  Luke. I love that shot going into the
• 17:38
  Citadel like and we land in the tower.
• 17:41
  I think it looks like it looks like 1,000,000 bucks at least of
• 17:44
  the time, I thought. Later on at night and we go down
• 17:47
  into the towers from above. That looks great as well.
• 17:51
  Love seeing? The Time Lord.
• 17:53
  It's a shame they couldn't get Timothy Dalton.
• 17:55
  He wasn't free, They asked him. I know.
• 17:57
  Fucking poor tense of pretension with the Time Lords.
• 18:01
  He he is a terrible Rascal. Oh, he's.
• 18:05
  Awful. I don't mind him at all.
• 18:07
  I don't think Timothy Dalton. It's not like Timothy Dalton
• 18:10
  gives a subtle performance. In the Timothy Dalton battle,
• 18:12
  gravitas. Yeah, he's there.
• 18:14
  There's an impact. This is just an old bloke.
• 18:18
  But he's not even spitting like Timothy told him he looks.
• 18:23
  He looks a bit swamped by the collar as well, doesn't he?
• 18:25
  Yeah, but I like the sort of the like you were saying.
• 18:29
  It's the pretentious Time Lord society because it's important
• 18:32
  to show how different the Doctor is from from his contemporaries.
• 18:36
  They don't make it any less boring though, even with the
• 18:38
  comparison. Oh no, I love it.
• 18:41
  I want to if I see a galfister, I just want to see something
• 18:44
  else that wasn't a barn or a a room in the capital.
• 18:47
  I want to see what else happens on that planet.
• 18:49
  In The Eight Doctors, he goes down to the The City under under
• 18:53
  Gallifrey and goes to a pub and gets into a fight.
• 18:56
  That's what we all. Want to see?
• 19:00
  And we're we're back at everyone's favorite barn.
• 19:02
  I do. I no, But I do like the barn
• 19:04
  stuff. It's very brown again though,
• 19:06
  isn't it? No, but it does add this sort of
• 19:09
  mysterious law that's that's not insufferable like.
• 19:13
  This woman how? Dare you?
• 19:17
  Well, it's is it meant to be the same way?
• 19:19
  I mean, it's not the same actress, but is it meant to be
• 19:21
  the same woman from the end of time?
• 19:23
  I do like the fact she noticed him without any sort of
• 19:26
  dialogue. She just notices him I.
• 19:29
  I feel like she's like the housekeeper or the nanny or
• 19:31
  something like that. She's been there, you know,
• 19:34
  sweeping out that barn for the last 15 centuries.
• 19:38
  You know, she she put into bed when he was a kid, picked up his
• 19:41
  cummy tissues when he was a teenager.
• 19:44
  Oh, I wonder what he wanked over as a kid.
• 19:47
  I dread to think. Oh, of course, Madame de
• 19:50
  Pompadour. Books.
• 19:55
  Cuara was under his bed. I mean, I'd go as.
• 19:59
  Far as to suggest. That the the Time Lord country
• 20:02
  folks, that we get here. The Shebogans.
• 20:05
  That one's very hot there with the waistcoat on, but I think
• 20:09
  they're a bit more interesting in The Invasion of Time greatly,
• 20:12
  where they're all dressed up like a load of country folk.
• 20:16
  I also didn't realise, but they like.
• 20:18
  I laughed and joked about the timeless child mentioned in
• 20:21
  Sheboggan's. But they mentioned them in this
• 20:23
  as well, don't they? I love this big fucking
• 20:26
  spaceship. Just.
• 20:27
  Yeah. Phrase because they can't.
• 20:29
  Like a massive Dick. Well, you love massive Dicks.
• 20:33
  That's a good point. I love it.
• 20:35
  Then I just. I just think this 1st 15 minutes
• 20:40
  there's. It's there is in it.
• 20:42
  It's there isn't really. Any story?
• 20:45
  This is what? The time.
• 20:47
  Stories. All the time, yeah, and well.
• 20:49
  And I feel like as being a massive consumer of Big Finish
• 20:54
  as we are, it feels like I've seen shit like this.
• 20:57
  As can really have. But I've always wanted to see it
• 20:59
  like this is. I love this stuff.
• 21:02
  I love him facing down the spaceship.
• 21:04
  I love the build up because and where it's going, like the the
• 21:07
  best bits in the fucking day of the Doctor were the bits of the
• 21:10
  the Time Lords and Gallifrey. Then you cock in about with
• 21:13
  Zygons for an hour. I think I think in in this bit I
• 21:16
  just failed to care. Yeah, it's that sort of very
• 21:21
  worthy science fiction that play Jon Perry's time.
• 21:27
  And again, Doctor Who wouldn't have done something like this in
• 21:31
  the first couple of seasons, but now it's confident enough to
• 21:34
  know that this isn't actually going to pull people.
• 21:36
  Off and back when it was massively popular, it never
• 21:38
  would have done anything like this.
• 21:40
  But that's not the show's fault. I mean, shows naturally lose
• 21:43
  people over time and you've got to keep changing it.
• 21:47
  Up 8 or 7 or 8 million people watching those specials.
• 21:50
  Yeah, but I've said this before and I'll say it again, Doctor
• 21:52
  Who is only popular when the BBC do massive amounts of promotion.
• 21:57
  The first, The Jodie's first season was hugely successful if
• 22:00
  you look at the ratings and it's because they promoted the fuck
• 22:02
  out of it. Same with the Tenant era.
• 22:05
  Same with the Specials. The Doctor Who is not successful
• 22:08
  at this point because it's just. It's just a a regular presence
• 22:11
  on the schedule. The same.
• 22:13
  The same as later Jodie stuff. It's just.
• 22:16
  We're supposed to think that the Doctor is all powerful here
• 22:19
  because he is just sort of sitting around waiting for them
• 22:21
  to come to him and then he's going to take over, right?
• 22:23
  But it is still just him sitting around like.
• 22:26
  Yeah, I I. Think this is moving slower than
• 22:29
  heaven sent at the moment because he's doing nothing at
• 22:31
  all. He's just been in a bloody
• 22:33
  castle for 45 billion years or whatever it needs a bit this.
• 22:36
  One this one this one this. This is just this one.
• 22:39
  Doctor 3. Days but I mean we're sort of
• 22:44
  touched on it but the whole sort of this is and I'd said it'd be
• 22:47
  in that Facebook post but the whole this isn't accessible to
• 22:49
  new covers. I mean it is that case of in
• 22:52
  what? Luke's poor mate that was
• 22:55
  watching this with him is going what is going?
• 22:57
  No in in what other series would you expect to roll up to the
• 23:00
  Series 9 finale? Know what's?
• 23:03
  Going on, you'd not need to know.
• 23:05
  I think, I think you could watch Part of the Way So without much
• 23:09
  of what went before and just enjoy that.
• 23:11
  Yeah, of course you could, Daleks.
• 23:12
  And battles, It's just a. Bloody great battle.
• 23:15
  Yeah, you could, but it's it doesn't necessarily make one
• 23:18
  better than the other. But also, that's a big load of
• 23:21
  old sci-fi bollocks at the end as well, isn't it?
• 23:23
  Oh, those robes. That's just so shit, aren't they
• 23:26
  I? Love them.
• 23:28
  I love them. I feel like Jim Asherson needs
• 23:31
  shooting. I see colours.
• 23:35
  There's a deleted scene, isn't there, that a picture leaked off
• 23:38
  that's got a set of guards that are dressed like the ones in Arc
• 23:41
  of Infinity and the Five doctors with the white robes?
• 23:45
  What's the line she has like, oh, Julio, was it?
• 23:47
  She goes down. Answer me back, boy.
• 23:50
  Yeah, it's really terrible. I I don't think I ever
• 23:54
  particularly took to bring in the sister the car back or Hilly
• 23:57
  or anything like that. It never really clicked for me
• 24:00
  in the new. Series.
• 24:02
  I think they worked when they were doing a gothic horror and
• 24:04
  you needed like a colt, but apart from that they are just
• 24:08
  again pretentious, you know, premonitions.
• 24:11
  Of doing it sort of works in that Megan mini episode because
• 24:15
  it's quick, it's easy, very quick.
• 24:17
  Yeah, it's it's full fans, but when they just suddenly appear
• 24:21
  in the additions of friends. Did you read that book?
• 24:24
  Honestly, it wasn't even deadly what he drunk.
• 24:26
  It was just lemonade. Lemonade, yeah.
• 24:30
  Moffett oh, watch. Just let us know now from the
• 24:36
  Sea Devils, the actor. Donald Sumpter.
• 24:40
  Donald Sumpter, Yeah man, he camps it up a bit now where it's
• 24:43
  like fire on him, he's giving it is all.
• 24:50
  I'm just I'm a fan and I'm not particularly interested in this.
• 24:53
  I'm. Absorbed.
• 24:55
  I'm having trouble chatting to you to be honest.
• 24:56
  I I'll turn the volume up. I'm fucking you guys off.
• 24:59
  I because because I think part of Hell bent is you go through
• 25:03
  this and then we reject the Gallifrey story and we fully buy
• 25:07
  into the the Doctor and Clara story.
• 25:09
  I mean, I've bitched and whinged about the fact that they bring
• 25:12
  Clara back again, but the second she walks into that white room,
• 25:15
  my interest perked up substantially.
• 25:18
  But but of course the Doctor goes back to Gallifrey and it's
• 25:20
  not a big fucking time, nor battle or something like that.
• 25:23
  It of course he's going there to save his mates.
• 25:25
  If he ran away from Gallifrey, he's not going back there just
• 25:28
  to fucking catch up with with some pals down the Academy.
• 25:32
  But you said it yourself when we were talking about the Timeless
• 25:35
  Children and that sort of devastated Gallifrey.
• 25:38
  So that doing the plan it but just doing something so much
• 25:41
  more interesting than this. Well, no, because that what what
• 25:45
  this does. This could very easily become
• 25:48
  the Timeless Children, but it as I.
• 25:50
  Say we could only hope. It rejects that boring Gala face
• 25:54
  story. So we actually get something
• 25:55
  with an. American So does that, though I
• 25:58
  also. Think it doesn't really.
• 26:00
  Well, it does. It creates an army of side men
• 26:02
  out of the the dead Time Lords. It's nothing.
• 26:06
  It's nothing like it's a. But it's a load of stuff that no
• 26:09
  one really cares about. Whereas with this.
• 26:12
  It's the Doctor's past. You've got the absolute
• 26:14
  culmination of the Doctor. I care.
• 26:15
  About it. Yeah, we've just, we've
• 26:18
  discovered doing these. I know Dylan.
• 26:20
  You are strange. Dylan Marie.
• 26:22
  I also, I think Doctor Who could have ended after this, as in
• 26:26
  like, I think it's a great finale for the new series and I
• 26:29
  would have been happy if I do. This will be the last series.
• 26:32
  I think it it works. Because it's also feels like the
• 26:35
  last sort of new story you could ever tell.
• 26:38
  In a strange way, this was the culmination of the modern series
• 26:42
  and where it was going, yeah. Absolutely.
• 26:44
  The next season, although it's got some bits I really like,
• 26:47
  does feel like it's treading water and doesn't know what to
• 26:50
  do. Yeah, just by telling a load of
• 26:53
  serviceable Doctor Who. Stories.
• 26:56
  I think the show could have gone out on Power of the Doctor as a
• 26:59
  celebration of the TV series. I've gone out here, I'd have
• 27:02
  been gone. Thank God you.
• 27:03
  Know. Give Russell a chance.
• 27:07
  He hasn't cancelled it yet. Doctor Who died for me when
• 27:10
  Jodie Whittaker regenerated into David Turner.
• 27:14
  I'll TuneIn every week though. Yeah, what's your Facebook?
• 27:17
  Post. Sumter's giving it some now.
• 27:21
  Oh my God. I'm going to find my doc.
• 27:22
  I have reviews on this one. I can't even remember what I
• 27:24
  said. Keep talking.
• 27:26
  I I just love the showdown and the fact you know they get into
• 27:29
  that thing of nobody will shoot the Doctor because they served
• 27:32
  with him. And Skull Moon which is just
• 27:35
  another one of those lovely little ideas that you know the
• 27:38
  throw watch Skull Moon. It's like the Nightmare Child
• 27:41
  and things like that. And then Big Finish probably do
• 27:43
  a box set about Skull Moon and it's just a moon shed like a
• 27:46
  skull. Oh no, do you dare let me read
• 27:49
  this out. There were times during the
• 27:53
  show's hiatus in the wilderness years where it was being used as
• 27:56
  a product of wish fulfillment, turning it into really bad fan
• 27:59
  fiction as covered by two hot TV that doesn't say that.
• 28:03
  And much of hell Bent reeks of that sort of fannish discharge.
• 28:07
  Half Gallifrey porn, half shipper's paradise, and almost
• 28:10
  entirely wank. The build up to Hell bent was
• 28:13
  extraordinary. Also, I loved Heaven Sent.
• 28:15
  At the time it felt like the show was going to say something
• 28:18
  huge about Gallifrey and it's future, but ultimately all it
• 28:21
  has to say is the Doctor loves Clara and the show lacks guts,
• 28:24
  which is not what I was expecting.
• 28:26
  What irritated me no end is that it takes the potential of Steven
• 28:29
  Moffat's personal finest achievement in his own era, The
• 28:31
  Day of the Doctor, and throws it away.
• 28:34
  It wastes the return of Gallifrey what should have been
• 28:35
  a spectacular event. So I was that fan, clearly in
• 28:39
  favour of more obsession with the least interesting companion
• 28:42
  to have stepped out of New Who Lara has become Moffett's Rose,
• 28:45
  an unfortunate anchor to the series that he cannot toss away.
• 28:49
  There are moments of poetry and hell bent, some wonderful lines,
• 28:51
  and the acting is first rate, but so much of the episode is
• 28:54
  overblown, drawn out, clever, clever and incomprehensible.
• 28:57
  I've no idea where it leads the casual viewer, because we're
• 29:00
  playing lip service to fans again, the show having a very
• 29:03
  similar feel to the mid 80s. What it desperately needs is a
• 29:06
  shot of originality and innovation.
• 29:08
  Doctor Who is leaning so heavily on the past now that it can only
• 29:11
  take tentative steps forward. It's in danger of disappearing
• 29:15
  up its own arse. Crack completely.
• 29:18
  Heaven. Heaven sent.
• 29:19
  I'm nearly there. Heaven Sent proved the sort of
• 29:22
  rich furrow the show can plow once Clara was out of the way,
• 29:25
  but as soon as she's back, we're drowning in continuity again.
• 29:28
  Now she has moved on, perhaps we can take a few risks and try
• 29:31
  some new things. What's that?
• 29:32
  Oh, river salt. Sincere performances, for the
• 29:35
  most part, are what salvage a few scenes.
• 29:37
  But this, to me, was the weakest of the Steven Moffett finale is
• 29:40
  because it exists for the show to lack balls in a season where
• 29:45
  the show has lacked balls. Wow.
• 29:47
  Welcome abroad. Here I am.
• 29:50
  I as much as I didn't like Series 9 at the time, I never
• 29:54
  thought it lacked balls. It was constantly trying to do
• 29:57
  new. Things we've just missed.
• 30:00
  Donald Sumter, excuse me, being kicked off the planet.
• 30:04
  Do you know where he goes in extended media?
• 30:07
  We want. To know planet 14 or something.
• 30:11
  He he, Yeah. And he goes and basically
• 30:14
  creates a race of cyber Time Lords and comes back to evade
• 30:18
  Gallifrey. Yeah, in one of the comics.
• 30:23
  Wow. Chippers was paying attention,
• 30:25
  weren't he? Yeah.
• 30:26
  Now this set is dreadful. It's a classic who set look at.
• 30:30
  It it's. It is, yeah.
• 30:32
  We've got a. Fucking fairy lights in it.
• 30:34
  Half a day to put a set together.
• 30:37
  And they they they're getting good use out of that Segway that
• 30:39
  they bought for the season opener, The Snake Man.
• 30:42
  And they've now got those Time Lords.
• 30:43
  It reminds me of like a ghost train or something like that.
• 30:46
  But you know, like the weird distorted face they do on Yeah,
• 30:50
  on the what are they called? The Wraiths or?
• 30:52
  The Cloister Wraiths. The Cloister Wraiths or
• 30:54
  something? When I saw it in the the The
• 30:57
  Next Time trailer, I thought it was David Tennant's face and I
• 31:00
  was convinced we were going to get a David Tennant cameo in
• 31:02
  this. It's not the first and last time
• 31:06
  I've been convinced that it's going to be David Tennant cameo,
• 31:09
  because this was the series with the David Tennant cameo.
• 31:13
  Like like like take yourself. It was a flashback, but it was
• 31:16
  in It was in episode 5. I know this this purely exists
• 31:21
  now as a piece of television in the past to enjoy, so who gives
• 31:25
  a fuck what the casual viewer thinks?
• 31:27
  Yeah, now. But put yourself in the mind of
• 31:30
  a casual viewer watching this. Then down in the Matrix falls
• 31:34
  with the sisterhood of Khan and the Time Lords and just like,
• 31:38
  what? Is this how it is supposed to
• 31:40
  engage people? But this is what I was saying on
• 31:43
  the last one about Steven Moffat saying let's pretend people
• 31:48
  don't keep coming back to Doctor Who.
• 31:50
  Like you don't have to restart it every week.
• 31:51
  They were casually more. What the hell?
• 31:53
  That's the point, The casual. Viewer doesn't exist.
• 31:55
  The six minutes, six and a half million people who watch this
• 31:58
  program and they watch it week in and week out because they
• 32:00
  like it. So you can do something like
• 32:02
  this because it's it's all explained in the history of the
• 32:05
  show. I'm also.
• 32:07
  If they weren't doing this, there might have been more
• 32:09
  casual viewers watching. No, I'm saying sorry, go.
• 32:12
  On no, no, no. I'm saying the casual viewer
• 32:14
  doesn't exist and never really has apart from, I'll tell you,
• 32:18
  the casual viewer it is. It's the 2 million people who
• 32:21
  tuned in to watch David Tennant who turned off Facility Gatwa.
• 32:25
  That's the casual viewer who are only interested in the shows
• 32:27
  that otherwise Doctor Who's ratings where, whatever, however
• 32:30
  high or low, are pretty constant for most series.
• 32:33
  And it's the same people coming back again and again and again.
• 32:36
  But. Good point I But just as I
• 32:38
  don't, I personally don't think you should cut out the kids in
• 32:41
  heaven and saying I don't think you should cut out the casual
• 32:43
  viewer in hell, Ben. I think these are poor.
• 32:46
  Choices. I'm now at the point where I
• 32:48
  don't care, but no, and that's I don't care.
• 32:51
  No, not about this, just in general.
• 32:53
  I don't think we should care because you can only really
• 32:56
  worry about what you yourself thinks and likes an episode.
• 33:00
  You can't worry about a mythical like other people that you don't
• 33:03
  even know and you don't know anything about them and how
• 33:05
  they're going to react to an episode unless.
• 33:07
  Unless they're in your living room.
• 33:08
  Because when Marmite Linda watched Journeys End with me and
• 33:11
  then turned around at the end and said what was that all
• 33:14
  about? I was so embarrassed.
• 33:16
  Not a casual view though. If someone's not a fan of Doctor
• 33:19
  Who and they watch it with you, that is always a horrible,
• 33:21
  horrible experience. I remember my mates who used to
• 33:24
  watch Doctor Who with me that I lived with when Series 4 went
• 33:27
  out and one of them turned to me after Journey's End and said
• 33:30
  that was the worst bit of television I've ever, I've ever
• 33:32
  seen. What does it mean?
• 33:33
  It might have been me. Nobody was acting in that.
• 33:37
  It was just a bunch of actors dicking about as.
• 33:39
  Well, that might have been your mate saying that, but there's
• 33:41
  also 10 million people that were going this.
• 33:43
  Is. No, I know, I know, I know.
• 33:45
  So why do you care what they think?
• 33:47
  Not you? Idiot, You idiot.
• 33:48
  Well, it's sort of endorsement. They went through the whole
• 33:51
  cancellation bullshit and it's sort of like if if everybody's
• 33:54
  enjoying it, we're like, yes, great.
• 33:55
  Unless, unless you're working on the show and it's your job to
• 33:59
  get as many people. Do I not tell you about that I
• 34:01
  am in fact working on it? No, I'm not.
• 34:03
  I like you, just can't worry about it also.
• 34:08
  But those are those are sort of preoccupation as that only.
• 34:11
  Because as fans, we all talk about it.
• 34:13
  If we all just stop talking about it, you don't watch any of
• 34:15
  the show and go, oh fuck off then.
• 34:17
  If you don't want to talk about, no.
• 34:19
  About the casual view, you don't sit down and watch that I don't
• 34:22
  know you fucking I'm a celeb, but go.
• 34:24
  I wonder what the casual view is.
• 34:25
  Think of this. Why is?
• 34:27
  Colin Baker's eating kangaroo Dick.
• 34:30
  You know what? This suddenly works.
• 34:32
  Looks right. It's because suddenly we've got
• 34:33
  an identification character. Suddenly there's someone in it.
• 34:37
  We can see it for our eyes going What the hell was going on?
• 34:39
  Why are you doing this? You've gone too far.
• 34:41
  She's asking all those questions that aren't being asked in the
• 34:44
  1st 20 minutes. Yeah, no, I get that.
• 34:46
  But it's again, it's a show that's earned its ability to do
• 34:49
  that. And you wouldn't.
• 34:51
  You wouldn't have had the finale to season one doing this.
• 34:53
  You have to tell it through Rosa's eyes.
• 34:55
  Here you don't. You can.
• 34:56
  You can play around with it a bit more.
• 34:58
  And it's what makes it a finale, makes it stand out, is that it's
• 35:01
  got a different flavour for the first bit.
• 35:05
  Can I jump back to the casual casual viewer for a second?
• 35:08
  I actually think the only time Doctor Who needs to worry about
• 35:11
  is casual viewership is now. Now that it's on Disney Plus, a
• 35:15
  platform that's only there to get people to watch things and
• 35:18
  to make money out of them. The BBC as a publicly funded
• 35:21
  broadcaster doesn't need you. Like obviously if a show's been
• 35:25
  watched by no one they'll cancel it.
• 35:27
  But their remit is not to get loads of ratings.
• 35:29
  It's to make a variety of programs that that people
• 35:32
  essentially that that will cover all audience is that are out
• 35:36
  there. So the casual viewer actually
• 35:38
  now becomes a thing that that we should care about, but during
• 35:41
  this give a fuck. I'm just saying it because it's
• 35:44
  part of my argument, frankly, is I don't think this is accessible
• 35:47
  to the casual viewer and it's shit and I'm tying the two
• 35:51
  things together. But again, like the casual
• 35:53
  viewer. Well, yeah.
• 35:57
  No, no, forget that. That was a well made point,
• 36:00
  Luke. Thank you.
• 36:02
  Maybe we should start our hamster spin off called Casual
• 36:05
  Viewer and we have to get random members of the public to sit
• 36:08
  down with us and watch. Really.
• 36:10
  Really. Well, that's something if it's a
• 36:11
  if it's a random member of the public, they shouldn't be
• 36:13
  jumping in on episode that Series 9 finale, but if it's
• 36:17
  someone that's saw. More podcasting as well.
• 36:19
  But if it's someone that saw watches on and off, then, as
• 36:23
  Dylan says, if it's not for them, they're just tuning again
• 36:26
  when it is. Yeah.
• 36:27
  Do we mind the Doctor shooting a gun here?
• 36:29
  I think the Doctor is a murdering fuck head and always
• 36:32
  has been, and everyone needs to stop pretending he's a pacifist.
• 36:35
  My only my only problem with this, which is the reason why he
• 36:39
  does it I assume, is that it's the lovely Cam bones general
• 36:43
  from day the doctor. I think if it was any other
• 36:45
  person, you'd be like, OK. And they've been dragging him
• 36:49
  into the Big Finish studios lately, haven't they?
• 36:51
  He's done a fair bit. You you just like oh but he he
• 36:54
  sounds he's actually sounds kill someone else.
• 36:57
  He was so proud to have won some future on his CV, wasn't he?
• 37:02
  But really, I'm. The only one.
• 37:04
  I really hate the line that it's it's like man flu.
• 37:07
  It really rubbed me up the wrong time.
• 37:09
  Yeah, the wrong way at the time because because we we just had
• 37:12
  David Tennant saying how it feels like dying and good, all
• 37:14
  that. And then you got Capaldi in a
• 37:17
  very muffy way saying, oh, it's just man flu.
• 37:21
  The new series cannot do regeneration consistently.
• 37:23
  Nobody can decide whether it's the death or whether it's just
• 37:26
  something that happens. It is just what I feel like, the
• 37:29
  old series. As well, isn't it really?
• 37:31
  Like with David Tennant leaving, it did feel right to do that big
• 37:34
  over the top thing. With David Tennant leaving after
• 37:37
  three episodes again, it did not feel right to do a big over the
• 37:40
  top thing. Do you know what?
• 37:42
  I I genuinely think these scenes in the Dinah are the best scenes
• 37:45
  in the episode. It's the.
• 37:46
  It's just the scenes between the two of them.
• 37:48
  I think they're the best scenes in the series.
• 37:52
  Yeah, I think you could be right.
• 37:53
  Well, that and I think the scene in the TARDIS where she really
• 37:56
  just says to him, stop, please, stop doing what you're doing.
• 38:00
  I am not worth this because that's exactly what I was
• 38:03
  thinking. So I was very pleased she said
• 38:05
  it. I think my only problem with not
• 38:07
  my only problem, but I I'd like it if the Doctor gone further in
• 38:10
  an episode called Hell Bent where he's meant to be really
• 38:13
  going and all out. I mean, oh, he basically just
• 38:16
  shoots one guy that we like and then.
• 38:19
  Did you see her? Trying to get up in that
• 38:20
  costume, I like the fact that the general regenerates with
• 38:24
  eyeliner on. Yeah, Doctor regenerated with a
• 38:28
  tattoo, didn't he? Yeah, he regenerated with in his
• 38:32
  blue suit for the full team. She's a very good actress style.
• 38:35
  I'd like to see her do something a bit meatier.
• 38:37
  I wanted her to be Doctor Who. I know it's an obvious choice,
• 38:39
  but I think she would. Be fabulous.
• 38:42
  Yeah. Can you become producer of
• 38:44
  Doctor Who then, please? And do it.
• 38:45
  Because it'll all be like this. Oh, Oh yes.
• 38:49
  And then we'll be doing commentaries on your episodes.
• 38:51
  Yeah, yeah. If I produce this bullshit.
• 38:56
  If I if I ever get a job on Doctor Who, I'm going to have to
• 38:58
  remove a lot of commentaries and podcasts from the Internet.
• 39:03
  You'll have to give us the Wonga, though.
• 39:05
  All right. I'll give you 1 spoiler for
• 39:08
  every podcast you remove. Deal.
• 39:12
  One big complaint at the time, which again I think is why this
• 39:16
  episode will people the wrong way.
• 39:17
  Instead, it'd become the Clara Show.
• 39:19
  That was a phrase that was thrown around quite a lot.
• 39:22
  Yeah, I think that's lazy. I think that's bullshit in this.
• 39:25
  No, yeah. It's written out of the Zygon 2
• 39:27
  parter she's written out of the second of Shielder episode.
• 39:31
  She barely does anything in The Magician.
• 39:33
  No, I agree. I think.
• 39:34
  I think it is lazy. The dog two is always the story
• 39:37
  of the companion and this is a relationship that isn't really
• 39:41
  like any of the others where the they literally just can't
• 39:45
  separate from each other. You got the tenant Clara.
• 39:49
  Clara actively. I wonder if they used him just
• 39:55
  to entice people. But only Dylan noticed.
• 39:58
  But Clara is is someone that actually wants to be the Doctor.
• 40:01
  And over time they're becoming more and more alike and they're
• 40:03
  becoming more reckless. And then it culminates in this
• 40:07
  where they literally break the universe apart to to be
• 40:11
  together. I might not be popular for
• 40:13
  saying this, but because I know Dylan really didn't like Series
• 40:17
  8, I just think their relationship is so much more
• 40:19
  interesting in Series 8 I love. It I like their relationship in
• 40:22
  it. That's not my issue with it.
• 40:23
  It's just it's with the stories. A lot of it.
• 40:26
  Honestly, you, you, me and your brother.
• 40:28
  The other day we was watching that last scene and kill Kill
• 40:30
  the Moon where she goes. You go off in your bloody TARDIS
• 40:33
  and fuck off and we oh God, it was amazing.
• 40:36
  It's great. And obviously, because it's a
• 40:40
  Moffett finale, we have to have a cameo by a bunch of Doctor Who
• 40:43
  monsters. So we've got Daleks and there's
• 40:45
  Weeping Angels, right? There's the Weeping Angel that
• 40:47
  shows up. Yeah, but you can see why he's
• 40:50
  done this, because he's probably thinking, shit, there's no fact
• 40:53
  we've had, we've had all this chat for like half an hour.
• 40:56
  Yeah, it does feel like I hate using the words lazy trope, but
• 40:59
  it does feel like a bit of a lazy trope.
• 41:01
  Now just to throw in the weeping angels of the dialects in the
• 41:04
  side of men. Everything in this set just
• 41:06
  looks terrible, doesn't it? It's just this is this is one of
• 41:10
  the worst sets in Doctor Who. After heaven saying yes.
• 41:14
  It's like every all the fairy lights and the cobwebs just are
• 41:20
  all. Yeah, it is serious.
• 41:22
  You think this is a better set than heaven?
• 41:24
  No, I mean the reverse. Oh, right, it's very cheap in
• 41:29
  comparison. Yeah.
• 41:29
  OK. Yeah.
• 41:30
  Good. Luke I'm not insane.
• 41:34
  It's quite what you might think. And the closest of Gallifrey
• 41:37
  come up in, what is it, Nightshade?
• 41:40
  They come up in nightshade, don't they?
• 41:42
  So it's something that Doctor Who fans of a certain vintage
• 41:46
  have a sort of image of in their minds.
• 41:49
  And then? Nightshade, really.
• 41:51
  Yeah, there's there's like prologues and things that set on
• 41:55
  Gallifrey with Susan. It was in fan circle.
• 41:57
  Then What is Stephen Moffett? Know all this stuff?
• 41:59
  Yeah, very true. Is this the bit where she
• 42:06
  finally says to him Stop. Is it here?
• 42:08
  Yeah. Yeah, yeah, this.
• 42:10
  Is I just wish we didn't cut away from the the heartfelt
• 42:13
  conversation. But this is because he's he's
• 42:15
  having a manic episode the Doctor in this episode and has
• 42:18
  been for since the last one like this a bit.
• 42:21
  This is still looking at depression.
• 42:23
  Have you watched Couple's Year? He's always having a manic
• 42:25
  episode. I mean, you could describe the
• 42:28
  Doctor as as basically a manic episode in general, but like he
• 42:32
  because he's gone too far, this is him taking it to the NTH
• 42:35
  degree. I think there's a reading of
• 42:37
  this that this is also a story about having a bipolar disorder,
• 42:40
  but. Also, I didn't mean to laugh
• 42:42
  with that, I just saw that Time Lord going on the Segway across
• 42:45
  the yeah. It is dreadful.
• 42:49
  Like, I can stand up for so much of this episode, but whenever
• 42:52
  they enter this route, I just go, for fuck's sake.
• 42:56
  I love, oh, I love having you on commentaries in general, but I
• 43:00
  love having you on here because obviously you have produced TV,
• 43:02
  so you have a unique perspective on how things look.
• 43:07
  What? One of my shows is getting
• 43:09
  critically mauled at the moment guys, so don't don't you worry.
• 43:13
  Which was? That it's a thing called Alice
• 43:16
  and Jack or Jack and Alice? Can't remember it was called to
• 43:18
  be continued when I did it, but amazing scripts.
• 43:21
  But it was a horrible shoot, and as a result the program isn't
• 43:24
  very good. I'll wait for that Channel 4/1
• 43:27
  the crime while I'm salivating for that one.
• 43:33
  Oh, we've all gone quiet. It's because we're gripped by
• 43:35
  the acting of General and Peter Capaldi.
• 43:38
  And you know they are good together.
• 43:40
  I'll say about their chemistry is undeemable.
• 43:43
  And it's great that there's he obviously cares about it.
• 43:46
  But what I like about this relationship is she doesn't want
• 43:49
  to shag him, you know? Yeah, well, you.
• 43:51
  Wouldn't, would you? It's How dare you?
• 43:55
  You know, do you? No, but I'm somebody does.
• 43:58
  He's got a wife. No, it's it's love.
• 44:00
  It's proper, dangerous love. Yeah, but no, no shagging.
• 44:05
  Have you ever had a relationship like this?
• 44:07
  I had six months with this little Asian guy, right?
• 44:10
  And it was proper dangerous love.
• 44:11
  And the sex was fucking amazing. I thought.
• 44:16
  I thought we were going to kill each other every single day.
• 44:19
  It was very like this. Oh yeah.
• 44:21
  It it seems like this where I'm like, I think, I think the the
• 44:25
  Doctor definitely loves Clara and he loves with the song when
• 44:28
  you watch it like this. Yeah.
• 44:29
  And it and I think probably more than Rose as well.
• 44:32
  I think, I think the Doctor loves Missy more than Elon's
• 44:35
  River Song. This is the the the the problem
• 44:38
  with the River Song is I never buy the romance at any point I.
• 44:41
  Do I don't really see the Capaldi one?
• 44:44
  That's the only one I buy it. I always see it.
• 44:46
  It's how it's it's how he plays it as a romantic lead.
• 44:49
  I'd never thought he had it in him, but he does it brilliantly.
• 44:51
  I always see them as a as a lost story.
• 44:54
  I have the same problem with with the riversong story as I do
• 44:57
  with the Madame de Pompadour story, in that it's sold as like
• 45:00
  this deep romantic love thing. But actually, I think it's just
• 45:03
  lust and fun, yeah. I think that it's something akin
• 45:10
  to the 6th Doctor in Perry, the fact that she stuck around after
• 45:16
  he regenerated into a complete come and no, no, no.
• 45:20
  But. But yeah.
• 45:21
  There's a there's not only an appreciation of that, it's just
• 45:24
  like, you know, you kept being my friend when they've expected
• 45:28
  him to be my friend. Yeah, hard times.
• 45:30
  Yeah, yeah, definitely. So I buy all this.
• 45:32
  I do buy. So This is why I'm suddenly
• 45:33
  invested for the first time tonight.
• 45:35
  Because there's something to be invested in.
• 45:38
  I mean, when he says the line in a minute that he had a duty of
• 45:41
  care, I just it hits like a ton of bricks.
• 45:44
  It summarises the toxic relationship.
• 45:48
  It and it it proves as well what I've been saying, that the story
• 45:51
  is right here between them two and not anywhere else on the
• 45:56
  surface fighting stupid Gallifrey and social Bogans.
• 46:00
  So what's the hybrid then? Oh, we're not there yet, Joe.
• 46:03
  No, he's just said they're talking about it now.
• 46:05
  Yeah, I know, but we get we get a proper chat about it when
• 46:08
  Maisie Williams decided. Are they the hybrid?
• 46:12
  Yeah, basically, yeah. I mean, that is shit, isn't it?
• 46:14
  As a resolution. It's a resolution, but it's a
• 46:18
  resolution to something that has literally just been like a one
• 46:20
  word thing. It's not like.
• 46:23
  They've already offered up 15 off or better.
• 46:26
  Yeah, but by by that, by that like explanation, you can say
• 46:29
  Bad Wolf is a shit resolution. It is because it's just.
• 46:32
  She could have gone. Don't go here.
• 46:34
  There's Daleks. But she put Bad wolf everywhere
• 46:38
  in chalk. On a pavement.
• 46:40
  But it is good, though it is good.
• 46:44
  And just how that's been built into the season has been done
• 46:47
  piss poor this year as well. It's just weird off references
• 46:50
  that aren't building the sort of momentum that these arcs usually
• 46:54
  do. But he's not trying to, though.
• 46:57
  Well then why is he doing it? Because it's just dipped in
• 47:00
  there. It's just a little Easter egg,
• 47:02
  isn't it? For fans, really fans who still
• 47:05
  care about there being an arc, he's.
• 47:07
  Just smells of failure to me, of just this is what they this is
• 47:11
  what they expect. So I'm lazily going to throw
• 47:14
  this in and then I'll kick you an explanation at the end.
• 47:16
  It's not failure if he's not really tried to put it anywhere.
• 47:20
  Well, it is failure of it failed to engage me.
• 47:28
  Go on, you can swear at me if you want.
• 47:31
  This is payback for spy for Luke Malloy.
• 47:33
  No, it's a valid point. If it fails to engage it and
• 47:35
  something's failed, like, it's very valid.
• 47:39
  Now where Higgins, who plays a Helia, the sisterhood of Khan
• 47:44
  Lady, I only found out recently and I'm just looking this up
• 47:47
  again, is the lead or one of the leads in the first two
• 47:50
  Hellraiser films as a young woman?
• 47:53
  Was she hard? She was she was pretty hot,
• 47:56
  yeah. Look, there's actually I was
• 47:57
  telling you about In the Dark. Look at the fabulous Spires.
• 48:00
  Yeah, it looks amazing. I I whether you like the
• 48:04
  exterior and building Gallifrey stuff lot wise they do.
• 48:08
  I do think it looks really great.
• 48:10
  It's that, again, It's that Gallifrey that the classic
• 48:13
  series just could never deliver. I think I'm just so bored of
• 48:18
  that image now. Like when you first see it in
• 48:20
  The Sound of Drums, it's like, holy shit, this is something
• 48:23
  else. But now we've seen it, So
• 48:25
  didn't. You like it when they built it
• 48:26
  in. No.
• 48:28
  I thought that look lovely, I. Thought that one.
• 48:30
  Great. And there's that moment in the
• 48:32
  name of the Doctor which is like I was a bit of a punch.
• 48:36
  The air moment of like when they pull.
• 48:38
  Out the workshop. And you're like and it's like
• 48:40
  old school Gallifrey and you're like, Oh my God, we're back in
• 48:43
  the past of Doctor Who. But that one had a bit of a less
• 48:46
  effect than side of Drums and it yeah, again, when we came here,
• 48:49
  this had a bit of a less effect than they were.
• 48:51
  The Doctors started to lose. I just wanted something else.
• 48:54
  I mean, if I was to take control of the Time Lords now, I would,
• 48:58
  I would maybe revert them to the Gods thing again from the War
• 49:01
  games, just to jazz him up a bit just to give him a bit more of,
• 49:05
  I call it Gods again. And we we'd have, we'd have some
• 49:09
  different Galifry. I will see you boys a question
• 49:12
  about cloves. Yeah, I'm not taking him off.
• 49:17
  He's a he's a fashionista. He follows.
• 49:19
  He follows fashion, Instagram. Yeah, he does.
• 49:24
  I follow fashion. Blogs, you know?
• 49:25
  Well, there was a point to it. It wasn't.
• 49:27
  I wasn't just going go look at me.
• 49:28
  I follow fashion blogs. Well, there was a point.
• 49:32
  The point was, I look great. Well, Mr. Fashionista answer
• 49:36
  this question to me then, because I feel like you two are
• 49:38
  the only two I can ask of the whole hamster audience, because
• 49:41
  you're the only ones that fuck women.
• 49:43
  Yeah, and that is Clara's jumper.
• 49:47
  That blue jumper. It's not very.
• 49:49
  Fetching to deliberately accentuate her boobs?
• 49:51
  No. But it does.
• 49:53
  It's also. It does.
• 49:54
  Doesn't it? It's not a very fetching jumper.
• 49:56
  I mean, I know she's a teacher, but she's dressed like a very
• 49:58
  uncool teacher. I think it's a really nice
• 50:02
  outfit for something that is, for something that is quite
• 50:04
  boring. I think it's actually really
• 50:06
  nice and just normal, but yeah, there's definitely something
• 50:10
  going on. There's definitely some sort of
• 50:11
  push up bar at. The moment in face the Raven
• 50:14
  where she looks like I have accepts the Raven.
• 50:16
  Like, I don't know. I don't know what moment you're
• 50:17
  talking about. I think she always looks best in
• 50:22
  red. Whenever they put her in red
• 50:24
  Journey to the centre of the TARDIS, ROB, Robot Sherwood, she
• 50:27
  looks. The the Zycon 2 parter.
• 50:30
  She looks hot as shit and that. I think the heart.
• 50:32
  Is evil as well. The hottest she ever looks is in
• 50:35
  Listen when she's in that seat going for the date.
• 50:38
  Oh yes, and actually. Dragonous.
• 50:41
  Time heist. After that, the sea really
• 50:44
  works. Would you put gentlemen, excuse
• 50:45
  me for a minute, sorry. Time Heist has got quite a
• 50:49
  fuckable cast, I think. Yeah.
• 50:53
  Apart from the weird fucking tentacle monster.
• 50:55
  But you don't go, yeah? You know the.
• 50:58
  Architect, They're pretty big tentacles, you know.
• 51:04
  Oh, she's got that tattoo on her, the back of her neck.
• 51:07
  Yes. So did did this get your fan
• 51:10
  cock tickling at the time? The yes.
• 51:13
  Now you are talking. Whenever I see an old TARDIS
• 51:17
  like it's, you know, sticky, sticky pads.
• 51:19
  Time. So why does it not do that much
• 51:22
  to me? I I can't decide whether it's
• 51:24
  just Cos hey I know it's a set it that like.
• 51:28
  It does feel like a set. It's a.
• 51:31
  Set, but like I know it's sort of a set in a museum somewhere.
• 51:34
  Do do you think it looks best in the Jodie Whittaker era when
• 51:39
  it's the Fugitive Doctors TARDIS?
• 51:40
  No, that bloody lens flare. I can't see a thing.
• 51:45
  Again, I'm just, it might just be the fact that I've seen it
• 51:48
  before. I kind of want something else.
• 51:49
  I know the whole point is that we've stolen old TARDIS.
• 51:52
  It does. It doesn't quite look like the
• 51:54
  old ones either. I don't know.
• 51:55
  There's something off about it. When I see New Who characters in
• 51:59
  Classic Who Tardises, that really excites me.
• 52:01
  It just makes that link between the two so explicit.
• 52:04
  It might just be that the camera and that isn't shit, You know,
• 52:08
  like it. It doesn't feel like the old
• 52:10
  TARDIS because you haven't got a a videotape.
• 52:13
  So if it was like a mid shot that didn't move, you'd be more
• 52:17
  comfortable with that? Yeah, like I I'm not saying I
• 52:19
  want Clara and Capaldi put in like a Name of the Doctor style
• 52:22
  into into an old TARDIS. They should have gone the the
• 52:25
  whole hog and had the like the middle big game this is going up
• 52:29
  on. I don't know why they didn't
• 52:30
  shoot Tales from the TARDIS in in this set, because it's it's
• 52:33
  still doing the rounds, isn't? It I did like the Memo TARDIS.
• 52:37
  Though I know it's a bit busy. It's something different though,
• 52:40
  isn't? It it's far too small, like, I
• 52:42
  don't know, it's only a throwaway bit of like Doctor Who
• 52:45
  from for the Internet, but I'm just like after the first one
• 52:48
  you're like, I feel so sorry for the people shooting this because
• 52:51
  they've just got no gamma angles at all.
• 52:53
  Although whoever's got that full size Jody TARDIS, that little
• 52:56
  one that they had, Can I please have that?
• 52:59
  Because I loved it. Yeah, the thing they you know,
• 53:02
  sorry it wasn't full size, but it was the whole TARDIS, wasn't
• 53:04
  it? On the floor.
• 53:06
  You've got the central console though, haven't you?
• 53:07
  I haven't. Got all the knobs, All the
• 53:10
  glowing knobs. That makes such a campfire.
• 53:15
  We'll get some glowed on this next time we're all together.
• 53:19
  We'll just add a repeat of the four knocks for no real reason.
• 53:25
  I I I like the fact that it this also plays with the sort of
• 53:29
  different resolutions of Doctor Who finales of like he's going
• 53:32
  to wipe her memory and all that stuff.
• 53:34
  It's I I think it's. Quite there is such AI.
• 53:37
  Do agree there's such a fine line between playing with it and
• 53:40
  having fun with it and it feeling like it's just repeating
• 53:43
  all Are you talking? About Spy 4 again, Luke Malloy.
• 53:48
  Yes. No.
• 53:49
  Oh, because you objected to it In that.
• 53:52
  Objected to what? Taking away people's memories.
• 53:56
  When did he do that in Spy? No, Jodie Whittaker did it to
• 53:59
  Ada Lovelace and. Oh yeah, but that was just,
• 54:02
  that's just cause. Whereas this is like he has to
• 54:05
  do it otherwise, yeah, be able to survive.
• 54:08
  I have come around a bit on Spy for one in those terms, but I
• 54:11
  still love it. But I it's like, why is this the
• 54:13
  one person, the Doctor, chooses to erase their memory?
• 54:18
  Especially when, as someone said later on in the season, she
• 54:21
  literally spells out to Byron this is how you're going to die
• 54:26
  now. A shielder.
• 54:27
  So series 9 sort of lives or dies on what you think of a
• 54:30
  shielder. Fine.
• 54:32
  My yeah, my real put. Well, I think she's fine.
• 54:35
  I think my least favorite episode of Doctor Who in the
• 54:37
  modern series of that first turn was the woman who fell to her.
• 54:42
  The woman who lived. Bro, I didn't slip.
• 54:45
  So then 55 episodes later, when we get my favorite one, Heaven
• 54:48
  said. My whole capacity of what the
• 54:50
  season's like gets thrown well out of work.
• 54:52
  But I really liked her and the girl who died.
• 54:54
  Yeah. I like from the girl who died.
• 54:57
  It was everything after. That I think I just don't like
• 55:00
  that episode. She doesn't sell being this
• 55:03
  age-old immortal. But it's a tough role because
• 55:07
  she's like an 18 year old girl and she's like.
• 55:10
  Brilliant in Game of Thrones. She is.
• 55:11
  But how many people? How many kids?
• 55:14
  She's playing A kid in Game of Thrones, but so how many kids
• 55:17
  could have played this role successfully?
• 55:20
  I think she does a fine job. I think she does a.
• 55:22
  Good job then. Don't hire a kid if they can't
• 55:25
  do it, hire someone that can't do it.
• 55:27
  Well, they just call it the the moderately old person who lived.
• 55:31
  The pensioner who lived. The only thing I don't like is
• 55:34
  the the fact she calls herself me.
• 55:36
  It's just fucking stupid. That that is stupid.
• 55:38
  And it feels like it's done. Purely for the Heaven's sake,
• 55:40
  Cliff. Now she's in the cloister.
• 55:45
  The the close is a Gallifrey set here, and I didn't even notice
• 55:49
  it the first time round. I only watched it this time,
• 55:51
  watching it, but it's the same set because it shot so much
• 55:54
  better and the lighting's better and it's just like it The set
• 55:58
  suddenly worked for me in a way that it hasn't in the rest of
• 56:00
  it. Thoughts.
• 56:07
  I disagree with you. That's why we're saying nothing.
• 56:09
  I didn't. I didn't know it's the same set,
• 56:11
  yeah, to be fair. So that that agrees with.
• 56:14
  Your It's always awkward when no one says anything.
• 56:18
  Oh my God, it's the fault locator.
• 56:21
  I I to be at the time I really fancied Maisie Williams in this.
• 56:27
  There you. Go as in this In this episode
• 56:30
  specifically, it's something about the nose ring.
• 56:33
  Like she belongs in Wentworth prison.
• 56:35
  But then there's definitely by the end of it, when her and
• 56:38
  Chloe are flying off in the tireless and they can be doing
• 56:41
  anything together. They probably are, you know.
• 56:44
  What the The Often the best scene probably in this whole
• 56:46
  season or one of my favourites, is the end of The Girl who died,
• 56:50
  that special effects shot where it's going around her and she
• 56:54
  does it all with a look. Going through the ages.
• 56:57
  And getting angry, and I thought, my God, we're going to
• 56:59
  do something incredible. And then she just left no
• 57:02
  impression on me in the next episode at all that.
• 57:05
  Was really. There's a problem with that.
• 57:07
  The episode didn't leave the impression on me either.
• 57:09
  I mean, what happens in that episode?
• 57:12
  The Now a lion turns up. Yeah, 55 minutes from the end
• 57:15
  and he can suddenly breathe fire, right?
• 57:17
  Rufus Hound is the meddling monkey in that one.
• 57:20
  Rufus Hound is. Not playing the monkey though.
• 57:22
  I'm surprised. Is he as annoying?
• 57:24
  No, he's great, isn't it? He's the best thing about it.
• 57:28
  I remember being really annoyed, whether it was the Baftas or
• 57:33
  something like that. It was an awards show where
• 57:36
  Doctor Who was up for something. They showed a clip for all of
• 57:38
  Series 9 and they picked the point where he's making a joke
• 57:42
  as the Doctor and a shielder on the floor in a forest and the
• 57:45
  woman who lived there. I thought, This is why.
• 57:48
  You know just why. I'm surprised Big Finish haven't
• 57:54
  tried to tie in his character from the woman who lived in the
• 57:56
  bedrooms. Somehow.
• 57:58
  Speaking of Big Finish, the most expensive box set of all time
• 58:01
  from Big Finish would be the Maisie Williams and Jenna
• 58:03
  Coleman box. It'll probably cost about 5
• 58:05
  grand per CD. People are still asking for that
• 58:08
  now. They're still asking for it, I
• 58:11
  think. Really.
• 58:12
  They they just couldn't afford them in a million years.
• 58:15
  No. You know, one thing that does
• 58:18
  make me like Clara a bit more is that I know Jenna Coleman's like
• 58:21
  a total cow bag at conventions and things, and I always love
• 58:25
  it. A bit like Lala Ward, where I
• 58:27
  know they're a bit edgy. And I don't know whether she is
• 58:30
  a complete cow bag. Yeah, I've heard many a story.
• 58:33
  On that one of them, one of them stories is from me.
• 58:35
  And I don't think, I don't think like, yeah, she didn't speak to
• 58:39
  us, but by all accounts, she'd had a pretty fucking terrible
• 58:43
  day of being sort of weirdly lurched over by fans.
• 58:48
  Yeah, she's. The one that says, oh, you were
• 58:51
  a Doctor Who fan or that Zoom call, or is that Billy Piper?
• 58:56
  There was what? Yeah.
• 58:59
  She goes, Oh, you must be a Doctor Who fan.
• 59:03
  Yeah, yeah. Oh, great.
• 59:05
  So I saw an interview with her where it's like someone cap
• 59:07
  caught on a red carpet and went, oh, do you think you'll come
• 59:10
  back to Doctor Who for 60th anniversary?
• 59:12
  And she just went. I just.
• 59:13
  I thought everybody had had enough of me.
• 59:17
  Was she exposed to some of the? Ill maybe she.
• 59:20
  Was maybe she was. I I think she's probably a very
• 59:22
  normal nice human being. But also you don't know what
• 59:25
  sort of like what type of personality she is.
• 59:29
  She. Maybe she just doesn't cope well
• 59:30
  with meeting thousands of people a day to have a photo with and
• 59:33
  do autographs. Maybe it's just not for her.
• 59:35
  But then when someone offers you 200 grand to do it, you're like,
• 59:38
  fuck yeah would. You take a good look at the
• 59:40
  three of us. I mean, would you want the three
• 59:42
  of us coming up to you going sign my picture?
• 59:44
  Come on, yeah, I can understand it totally.
• 59:48
  Why? She gets a bit frustrating.
• 59:49
  I I tell her. She's.
• 59:50
  Not met the three of us. Yeah, I tell her all about BBV.
• 59:53
  She'd be fascinated. Yeah, I mean, I'll still.
• 59:57
  I'll be trying to give her my number by what I'm saying in
• 59:59
  this episode. I'll beat Chinese persuaded to
• 1:00:02
  see the Big Finish box set with Maisie Williams.
• 1:00:05
  I mean, kudos to her for the career that she's forged after
• 1:00:08
  this as well, but she's just gone from strength to strength.
• 1:00:13
  We did skim over. They have a sort of playful chat
• 1:00:15
  about the hybrid, don't they? So he said.
• 1:00:17
  They mentioned the Doctor being half human.
• 1:00:19
  Maybe. Maybe that's it.
• 1:00:21
  You mention a Dalek Time Lord hybrid, which always just makes
• 1:00:25
  me think of Dalek Sack as a human.
• 1:00:27
  I don't know about anyone else. But old cock face.
• 1:00:30
  Yeah, cock face. So why were the Time Lords so
• 1:00:33
  scared of the pair of them? They were scared of the Hybrid
• 1:00:38
  because the hybrid, the prophecy was the Hybrid would stand in
• 1:00:41
  the ruins of Gallifrey body, body, bar.
• 1:00:45
  And that's what they're doing. They're standing in the ruins of
• 1:00:47
  Gallifrey. Yes, shit in it.
• 1:00:49
  And you know the Doctor did come back and depose the President
• 1:00:52
  and basically leave Gallifrey in turmoil and then bugger off
• 1:00:55
  again. Like.
• 1:00:56
  He used to be. That in The Five Doctors he does
• 1:00:58
  it all the time. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:00:59
  They should know not to trust the doctor and put them in
• 1:01:02
  charge of anything. I'm not.
• 1:01:05
  I don't think it's the best season linking narrative.
• 1:01:10
  No, I I do agree. But I think there's enough sort
• 1:01:13
  of emotion. And so yeah, is it?
• 1:01:16
  There's enough story between the doctor and Claude that gets told
• 1:01:19
  that the rest of the Bobbins can just sort of fall away from
• 1:01:22
  that. Carries a lot of it.
• 1:01:23
  When you think how skilfully like the cracking Amy's wall was
• 1:01:26
  done, when you think how exciting like Mr. Saxon was and
• 1:01:30
  how that built to our big crescendo like this sort of
• 1:01:33
  stuff can be done really, really well, this is a bit of a wit
• 1:01:38
  part in comparison. The the the thing that that will
• 1:01:41
  make it work properly unfortunate that you can't
• 1:01:44
  really do is by showing how it's affected Time Lord history.
• 1:01:48
  You know like there's there's a story or maybe even part of this
• 1:01:52
  story or you you've seen it within the with the series of
• 1:01:55
  like well the Time Lords as a people are really scared of the
• 1:01:59
  hybrid and they need to know what it is.
• 1:02:00
  So you know, you maybe you have like the the snake character at
• 1:02:04
  the beginning, like hunting down the Doctor trying to find
• 1:02:08
  exactly what he knows about the hybrid and you just need you
• 1:02:11
  need you need to sell it more as a threat rather than like a
• 1:02:14
  something that feels sometimes a little bit like he wrote the
• 1:02:17
  last two episodes, put the hybrid in and then went, can we
• 1:02:19
  just record a few lines about the hybrid and the other
• 1:02:21
  stories? What was that?
• 1:02:24
  Oh, what's that? Well, you got bubbles coming out
• 1:02:26
  your mouth bubble. Came out your.
• 1:02:27
  Mouth a bubble came out like. A digital.
• 1:02:30
  Book and then in the middle bubble, what's a thumbs up?
• 1:02:33
  That keeps happening to me and I don't know what it.
• 1:02:36
  Is in real life zooms. Agree with your opinion.
• 1:02:40
  Great opinion. Because, she said, what was
• 1:02:42
  that? And I just looked over at the
• 1:02:43
  screen because he thought something amazing could happen,
• 1:02:45
  like Colin Baker had shown up. The only thing we're amazed
• 1:02:48
  about is here is you didn't. All right.
• 1:02:51
  Thanks and my magical bubble. Bubble but.
• 1:02:55
  I've got a slight issue with this prop in that like there's
• 1:02:58
  not a button on it, it would just sell it with it if there's
• 1:03:04
  an actual button, but they actually just sort of both.
• 1:03:06
  Sort of hover the fingers around it, hover the thumbs around it.
• 1:03:09
  I feel like it should be shaped like the TARDIS sniffer outer
• 1:03:12
  from the Time monster. It has more visual impact.
• 1:03:15
  It's just one of them scenes where you can't let anything
• 1:03:17
  distraction and that just slightly distracts it.
• 1:03:21
  She looks beautiful here, doesn't she?
• 1:03:23
  Like she's she just looks beautiful.
• 1:03:28
  What about Peter Capaldi? Does he look beautiful?
• 1:03:31
  Never. Oh, he does look pretty sexy
• 1:03:35
  though at some points. Daisy thinks he's really hot.
• 1:03:38
  Yeah. But she's got terrible tasting.
• 1:03:40
  Don't make me say it morphins. I'm hot, for God's sakes.
• 1:03:46
  Jesus Christ, there are some crazy people out there.
• 1:03:50
  You're all right. Yeah, sort of 3 1/2 hours here
• 1:03:54
  I. Think I think we all do the job.
• 1:03:57
  I don't know. I've been talking to your
• 1:03:58
  missus. She ain't very happy.
• 1:04:01
  Don't. Fucking know you are.
• 1:04:05
  Keep you safe. That's what you think?
• 1:04:11
  She thinks you go in these rooms and you're just having a wank
• 1:04:13
  for 2 1/2 hours. Right.
• 1:04:14
  She doesn't know you need. Basically, it's a.
• 1:04:18
  It's a verbal wank. There's a lot of ejaculate
• 1:04:23
  coming out. What's going on?
• 1:04:25
  Why is he falling to the floor? I've forgotten.
• 1:04:28
  Because. I hate the purse thing.
• 1:04:31
  Me too. Yeah, me too.
• 1:04:32
  Oh my God. We're all in agreement.
• 1:04:35
  I do love the fact that they make you feel like one of them's
• 1:04:38
  going to forget the other, and it's in fact the reverse of what
• 1:04:42
  you think. I think that is a nice.
• 1:04:43
  Yeah, and it's a reverse of the Journey's End ending as well,
• 1:04:47
  isn't it? Left the Doctor get it?
• 1:04:49
  I mean, do you think I was going to say, do you think, Well,
• 1:04:51
  there's a big finish out there that explains why the Doctor
• 1:04:54
  hates pears. Probably.
• 1:04:57
  I mean, I'm not a big fan of pears, to be honest, but it
• 1:05:00
  certainly wouldn't be one of my dying words.
• 1:05:02
  No, I sort of forget that they exist, you know?
• 1:05:05
  What would your dying words be? Oh fuck.
• 1:05:11
  Put Heaven Sent on one last time, that is.
• 1:05:16
  Actually, that is a tough one. Yeah.
• 1:05:17
  If it's your last day alive, what Doctor Who would you watch?
• 1:05:20
  OK, ten. I've said that Every.
• 1:05:22
  Time. I've watched Power, Power of the
• 1:05:24
  Doctrine, Survival. I've watched The Syringa
• 1:05:28
  Conundrum. Just you.
• 1:05:29
  Would say better than the star based.
• 1:05:36
  We'll get there. Who's this man?
• 1:05:40
  I think my last words. Well, we've not commented on the
• 1:05:46
  fact that it's the diner from Amy from Impossible Astral Day
• 1:05:50
  of the Moon. Which is it?
• 1:05:52
  Supposed to be the same. I know it's the same place, but
• 1:05:54
  it's supposed to be the same one.
• 1:05:55
  Well, he does mention Amy Rory in a minute.
• 1:05:59
  He says he's OK. So is the implication that in
• 1:06:03
  Day of the Moon they're actually accidentally in Clara's TARDIS?
• 1:06:09
  Think think about that. Oh, you've given this unexpected
• 1:06:14
  reading there, Lou. Thank you.
• 1:06:15
  There you go. That diner no longer exists,
• 1:06:18
  though, does it? That's quite sad.
• 1:06:19
  No, I went in like one of the last months when it was open did
• 1:06:23
  nice hot dogs actually. Oh, look at how she's looking at
• 1:06:28
  him. It's so weird.
• 1:06:29
  It's like Amy and Rory, right? Or Amy in particular.
• 1:06:32
  I just didn't buy into a. But then in Angels, I really
• 1:06:35
  bought it to her and how much she loves him.
• 1:06:37
  And it's the same with Clara. That can happen though, with a
• 1:06:42
  with a companion, you can't just suddenly buy the investment.
• 1:06:46
  Yes, especially. That.
• 1:06:47
  That light Amy and Seven Eye, that sort of just very
• 1:06:49
  competent, very confident. I really loved her.
• 1:06:54
  I watch. The the cafe scene separate.
• 1:06:57
  There's a video on YouTube where they put the cafe scenes
• 1:06:59
  together. I do watch them a fair bit
• 1:07:02
  because these are just my favorite bits.
• 1:07:04
  I mean, some of the dialogue stories are where memories go
• 1:07:07
  when they're forgotten and nothing sad until it's over.
• 1:07:11
  Then everything is. They are just two fucking
• 1:07:14
  gorgeous lines of dialogue delivered with the Millennium of
• 1:07:19
  Emotion by Peter Capaldi. But he plays a bit of music here
• 1:07:23
  as well, which is very emotive. Well, they say, I don't know.
• 1:07:27
  I don't know if this is the bit. Oh no, I think it is the bit
• 1:07:29
  because she says you said memories become stories when
• 1:07:32
  we're forgotten, and then he says maybe some of them become
• 1:07:35
  songs and he starts playing Clara's theme, which yeah, is a
• 1:07:38
  bit clever, but also if really fucking good could.
• 1:07:41
  You imagine Pierre Capaldi and Karen Gillan go round the
• 1:07:44
  universe together? My God, the universe would not
• 1:07:47
  be prepared, no. You think that would quite a lot
• 1:07:51
  and they're like Capaldi and Rose.
• 1:07:52
  Well, it's precisely how I feel about if sort of Colin Baker and
• 1:07:55
  Janet Fielding have done it, You know, it's that sense of no, be
• 1:07:58
  scared. Obviously Matt, Matt Smith and
• 1:08:00
  Harry though. The boys.
• 1:08:02
  The boys. They're definitely fucking.
• 1:08:07
  Peter Capaldi's guitar actually isn't plugged into anything,
• 1:08:09
  though is. It a sonics the the radio.
• 1:08:14
  Yeah, yeah, you're right. Unlucky.
• 1:08:21
  But in a way that's I don't really keep helping out about
• 1:08:23
  the time or stop it in a way that that was sort of overblown
• 1:08:25
  and clear. This is so restrained, all of
• 1:08:28
  this and it's feels real and it's a relationship that you can
• 1:08:32
  believe it. So I just think all of this is
• 1:08:34
  great and I didn't used to, but now I'm I'm invested here.
• 1:08:38
  I I really like this stuff it. Is.
• 1:08:40
  I think one I I like The 11 reason I really like Moffett is
• 1:08:44
  because any conversations, any drama about stories or memories
• 1:08:49
  or passage of time usually get me really quite emotional, and
• 1:08:53
  he's the best in the business of it.
• 1:08:55
  Especially that line in Blink. Then he when he goes, I have
• 1:08:58
  until the rain stops. I think that is by far the best
• 1:09:01
  bit of blink. Yeah, blink's alright.
• 1:09:07
  Blink's mid? Yeah, I don't.
• 1:09:10
  I don't dislike. It.
• 1:09:11
  I don't dislike it, but I do. I do dislike it a bit more
• 1:09:14
  because everyone loves it so much.
• 1:09:16
  Oh fuck me. Look, he's so obsessed with God,
• 1:09:18
  there's a shrine to her now all over the bloody TARDIS.
• 1:09:21
  It's gorgeous, though, isn't. It.
• 1:09:23
  But when she started peeling away, I was like, yes, finally
• 1:09:26
  she's gone. I still wondered, you know, if
• 1:09:30
  we were going to see her again. And of course, we did.
• 1:09:32
  He doesn't draw that though. Rigsy draws that.
• 1:09:36
  Yeah, there's AI think it's like a post credit scene of him
• 1:09:39
  graffiti and the TARDIS. Now the trouble with this,
• 1:09:42
  everything of them going off in a diner together, the woman who
• 1:09:46
  lived and the girl who's living out the last moment of her life
• 1:09:51
  in a time travelling machine that looks like an American
• 1:09:53
  diner is. I'm just not entirely sure how
• 1:09:56
  to feel about it that at all. But the universe is so big you
• 1:09:59
  don't have to worry. About it, I don't know if I feel
• 1:10:01
  excited or optimistic or or anything.
• 1:10:04
  It's just odd, rightly. But it's all been about Clara
• 1:10:08
  sort of becoming the Doctor. And now she's the Doctor.
• 1:10:10
  She's got her own TARDIS she's got.
• 1:10:12
  Her own fucking diet. At some point, someone's
• 1:10:15
  supposed to be happy that she's living out this one second.
• 1:10:17
  And eventually. Before.
• 1:10:18
  Before. It's just that she gets to
• 1:10:21
  choose as well. It's.
• 1:10:22
  Just a bit old. I like it.
• 1:10:25
  I've got no problem. With it, it's odd that Muffet
• 1:10:29
  does the same thing with his last two companions, which is
• 1:10:33
  kill them, they're bringing back and then then after fly off as
• 1:10:37
  sort of lesbians into the into space.
• 1:10:39
  What he does to Bill was so appalling he couldn't possibly
• 1:10:42
  leave her inside that Modestian side pursuit, absolutely.
• 1:10:46
  I think it's just good dramatically.
• 1:10:48
  I don't think it's that appalling.
• 1:10:50
  Now, when's that dramatic? When he goes into the TARDIS,
• 1:10:55
  the TARDIS looks amazing and with that music playing.
• 1:10:58
  Is it that proper? Hero.
• 1:11:02
  Hero. Moment this This is fun porn
• 1:11:06
  where where he clicks his fingers, the new screwdriver
• 1:11:09
  flies into his house. This was, like, incredible.
• 1:11:12
  Yeah, tireless coming back to life.
• 1:11:16
  That light source is coming through the doors is great.
• 1:11:20
  It's. Brilliant.
• 1:11:20
  I think this might be a reason I'm not a big fan of the classic
• 1:11:23
  tireless as well, because this one is just so much better.
• 1:11:26
  This is the best TARDIS. Yeah, by a Nile.
• 1:11:30
  My God, we can do it again. Oh, I didn't say that.
• 1:11:34
  I know. Yeah.
• 1:11:35
  You like Matt Smith? I like the migraine, yeah.
• 1:11:38
  What Series 5? Yeah, I love the migraine.
• 1:11:40
  That's my, that's mine. We were going so well there for
• 1:11:43
  a second. My baby, I I think I'm not.
• 1:11:46
  I'm definitely I I like the new one, but I'm looking forward to
• 1:11:49
  it not being white when they changed the lights in it.
• 1:11:52
  Very exciting. Is it that we're off to the
• 1:11:55
  husbands of Riversong and the return of Doctor Mysterio next,
• 1:11:58
  isn't it? I mean, I I talked about bit,
• 1:12:01
  suffering from depression. I feel like it's a good job.
• 1:12:04
  I was feeling a good job. I was feeling better by by that
• 1:12:07
  year because that was a a dark year for Doctor Who for me.
• 1:12:10
  One bit I do like about Husbands River Song is that he just has a
• 1:12:14
  laugh because it feels like series nine.
• 1:12:17
  He has been quite under it. That bit where he's in the snow
• 1:12:21
  and. Just yeah, with the bag, the
• 1:12:22
  head in the. Bag.
• 1:12:23
  Fuck me. He can have some fun.
• 1:12:25
  It's like the first time you ever see him properly laugh.
• 1:12:27
  It's like, thank God. This weird being last Christmas,
• 1:12:30
  isn't it? Where he's in the snow going in
• 1:12:32
  the sleigh, sorry going, you know.
• 1:12:34
  Oh yeah, this this scene though, especially that bit where he
• 1:12:38
  walks into the show and gets the screwdriver.
• 1:12:40
  That could be the opening of the series, yeah.
• 1:12:43
  Those weird sort of things going around at the top, aren't they?
• 1:12:47
  And the cameras attached to it. And then I love the way that the
• 1:12:49
  mural just falls apart do. You like the diner?
• 1:12:54
  No. It's a terrible CGI model.
• 1:12:58
  We were doing so well and then it's like, oh balls.
• 1:13:01
  They have to show it. Though I think that diner looks
• 1:13:04
  like the Daleks time ship in the chase.
• 1:13:06
  It does. It does.
• 1:13:09
  It does. They do.
• 1:13:10
  They've got to show it out of the because it's the end of the
• 1:13:13
  episode. Oh, the husband's and brother
• 1:13:15
  Song started. Let's keep going.
• 1:13:17
  Oh no, just it's the husband's song is literally an opposite of
• 1:13:21
  hell bent. Where?
• 1:13:22
  Oh yeah, it's where entertaining.
• 1:13:25
  It's only whereas in Hell Bent the 1st 15 minutes aren't that
• 1:13:28
  great, in husband's it's only the last 15 minutes that are
• 1:13:32
  worth watching. Yeah.
• 1:13:34
  The last 10 minutes of the husband's song, I think some of
• 1:13:36
  the best of the era. Yeah, it's great.
• 1:13:38
  But it's amazing. You just have to sit through a
• 1:13:40
  load of shit to get to. That's exactly how I feel about
• 1:13:43
  what we just watched. I'm not even big on the the
• 1:13:46
  whole Capaldi gets his own entrance scene, I just think.
• 1:13:50
  Oh yeah, no, it's a bit overplayed.
• 1:13:52
  Yeah, not a big fan of that. Anyway, that's a different.
• 1:13:55
  Day it is, it is. I won't be coming for that one.
• 1:13:57
  No, you you did promise to come for the Starbase, so.
• 1:14:01
  Yeah, I will come for the Starbase.
• 1:14:02
  Because I feel like we've we've done one where Luke's been mood
• 1:14:05
  Moody mare, and we've done one where I've been a Moody mare.
• 1:14:07
  Now it's your turn. Yeah, and I just love telling
• 1:14:10
  everybody I hate the Starbase because I I know how much it
• 1:14:13
  winds them up. Like, I probably don't even hate
• 1:14:16
  it as much as I pretend to hate it, but I do hate it.
• 1:14:19
  I do think the joy of having a dissenting voice is is obviously
• 1:14:23
  like Luke, not like a spy fault. That's not going to dent our
• 1:14:25
  enjoyment. Me not liking this is not going
• 1:14:27
  to dent your enjoyment. But like you said earlier, Luke,
• 1:14:30
  it's a more interesting lesson. It's something to springboard
• 1:14:33
  off if you do like it as well. It's not just this is good.
• 1:14:36
  This is good. Well, do you remember when we
• 1:14:38
  talked about the Flux still? And we're always saying lovely
• 1:14:40
  things, weren't we? We were.
• 1:14:41
  We were. We.
• 1:14:42
  Were like, should we try and find some horrible?
• 1:14:44
  Things to say you need you needed a Luke.
• 1:14:46
  But I did say to to Joe at one point I was like, oh, maybe Luke
• 1:14:50
  should come in and and Joe was like, no, let's do a different
• 1:14:52
  one with Luke should have come in and done the vanquishes with
• 1:14:56
  us. But then we did that while we're
• 1:14:57
  spy for you know where it was exactly?
• 1:15:00
  Pirate. I loved it.
• 1:15:01
  It was good. Well boys, we've got to go to
• 1:15:04
  bed at some point tonight, so let's do a round Robin.
• 1:15:07
  Nine things, three apiece. Let's start with Dylan.
• 1:15:13
  I just want to, and this is about really obvious one but
• 1:15:17
  Clara Oswald has played by Jenna Coleman.
• 1:15:20
  Her last hurrah, that her interaction with Peter Capaldi
• 1:15:23
  throughout the episode is just amazing and I just think she she
• 1:15:27
  never the rest bits of Clara. I don't like in series 7,
• 1:15:34
  especially in bits and series 8, but there is never a point that
• 1:15:38
  she doesn't as a performer give it 110%.
• 1:15:41
  So I'm going Jenna Coleman. I I yeah, I'd sort of build it
• 1:15:48
  on that. I'll go that it's a good
• 1:15:50
  conclusion to the Doctor companion relationship.
• 1:15:54
  It's the it's a Goku goes to the deep, complex toxic Doctor
• 1:15:59
  Kavani relationship that's been building for a few years and
• 1:16:02
  it's a relationship that we haven't seen in Doctor to before
• 1:16:05
  or since, which makes it a truly unique story in Doctor Who.
• 1:16:10
  Cannon, I would say, yeah. Is the conclusion that these two
• 1:16:16
  are actually bad for each other? Yeah, yeah, she's she's
• 1:16:22
  basically become him and and but they can't be together.
• 1:16:26
  And he's he's dangerous in how he protects her.
• 1:16:30
  Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's, yeah, it's, it's toxic love.
• 1:16:37
  Oh, sorry, it's my turn, isn't it?
• 1:16:39
  I would like to praise Murray Gold, who I've praised quite a
• 1:16:43
  lot recently, but I think he does some really interesting
• 1:16:46
  things with the score here, especially like the whistling.
• 1:16:49
  But no, no, no. I just think when it comes to
• 1:16:54
  Stephen Moffitt's time, a lot of people say he's off off the ball
• 1:16:58
  at this point and he's just rehashing old themes.
• 1:17:00
  I think there is a bit of that in 10, just a bit.
• 1:17:03
  But I think in Heavenson and Hell Bend, he's on top form and
• 1:17:07
  he really gets those emotional moments right.
• 1:17:12
  I. Was just going to say, you know,
• 1:17:14
  people talk about Murray Gold reusing the same themes.
• 1:17:20
  I think that's a budgetary thing.
• 1:17:22
  I think they're trying to save money so they're using older
• 1:17:24
  music I don't like. You notice throughout the
• 1:17:27
  Moffett era, even in the series 5, they go back to the same
• 1:17:31
  songs again and again and again and again.
• 1:17:33
  I genuinely think that's more to do with like a budget saving
• 1:17:36
  thing than him just being like, oh, I can't write any new music.
• 1:17:40
  I like how he gives every character a theme and then does
• 1:17:44
  riffs on those theme depending on where the emotion is.
• 1:17:48
  So here you have the version of Clara's theme on the electric
• 1:17:50
  guitar, which is fabulous. So yeah, Mario.
• 1:17:55
  I'm not. It's like when people say, oh,
• 1:17:58
  Marie Gold, then he plays the music too loud, like like we've
• 1:18:03
  said it before, but he literally just makes the music.
• 1:18:06
  Yeah, he gans over a load of music and then it's up to the
• 1:18:09
  directors and the producers exactly how loud that music is
• 1:18:14
  done in the final mix. Well, I think it's worth noting
• 1:18:16
  as well that Akanola came in and he did turn tone the music down
• 1:18:20
  and then they said no, no, no or whatever decision was made in
• 1:18:25
  series 12. It was back to Murray levels of
• 1:18:28
  bombast. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:18:30
  So that's what just seems to work for the new series.
• 1:18:33
  Absolutely. My next thing is Gallifrey.
• 1:18:37
  Everybody loves the Gallifrey scenes.
• 1:18:41
  I just love seeing because it's not a whole episode about
• 1:18:45
  Gallifrey. I can take 20 minutes of sort of
• 1:18:48
  dicking about on Gallifrey and it not being Arc of Infinity and
• 1:18:51
  it's big citadels and guards and spaceships and things like that.
• 1:18:55
  So I'm there for it. A big fan of Gallifrey when it's
• 1:18:59
  used sparingly. Madness.
• 1:19:04
  I say that a lot of the dialogue, especially in the cafe
• 1:19:07
  scenes, are gorgeous. Really nice, proper poetic.
• 1:19:12
  And yeah, maybe my number 2 will just be a quote of stories or
• 1:19:17
  where memories go when they're forgotten.
• 1:19:19
  I just love that so much. He can pull out a line, Carly
• 1:19:24
  Moffett that that really means something.
• 1:19:27
  I spent a lot of time criticizing this man in this
• 1:19:31
  episode, but it's just because I feel like Soul Deed has stepped
• 1:19:35
  out of Season 17 straight into Series 9, and that is the fella
• 1:19:39
  from the Sea Devils playing Russell on who's so crazily over
• 1:19:43
  the top I can't help but be entertained when he's on the
• 1:19:46
  screen. That was going to be my third
• 1:19:47
  one. Oh, sorry.
• 1:19:49
  It's fine. He's I understand the criticism
• 1:19:52
  of the performance, but it does it is like a classic.
• 1:19:56
  It's like a classic series performance.
• 1:19:58
  So I'm I just. I just love that they can get
• 1:20:01
  away with that on television. 2015.
• 1:20:04
  I wonder if that's why fans are turning around to this.
• 1:20:06
  You know, like they've got a classic series villain in there
• 1:20:08
  somewhere. The classic console you got.
• 1:20:11
  You know the terrible cheap old classic set with The Matrix?
• 1:20:13
  Race. I think it's also the fact that
• 1:20:15
  it hasn't ruined Gallifrey because something else has come
• 1:20:18
  along and ruined it more. And I don't.
• 1:20:20
  I don't even mean that. I don't even mean that as a dig.
• 1:20:23
  I mean like the sort of people that would have thought this
• 1:20:26
  would have ruined Gallifrey will definitely think that The Time
• 1:20:29
  The Children ruined it more. I'd say this suddenly becomes
• 1:20:32
  fine. I feel a lot of people are
• 1:20:33
  turning around to that as well, you know.
• 1:20:36
  Naturally, you just care less because it's it was years ago.
• 1:20:41
  If Rod can put it through to round two of all people.
• 1:20:46
  Oh, is it me? Oh, no.
• 1:20:47
  So it's you, isn't it? Yeah.
• 1:20:48
  So I was going to go for Donald Sumter, but I can't.
• 1:20:53
  So I'm going to sort of echo a little bit what Luke said and
• 1:20:56
  just talk about Steven Moffett and the fact that he can still
• 1:21:00
  tell new and interesting stories five seasons into his run.
• 1:21:04
  He is when you get. When I'm watching Russell T
• 1:21:09
  Davis, First Era, by the time I'm about halfway through series
• 1:21:13
  three, I'm going, this is running out of steam for me in a
• 1:21:15
  lot of places in terms of there's there's big moments and
• 1:21:19
  great episodes. But I'm just like some of this
• 1:21:21
  and I've seen it before. I've seen it before.
• 1:21:23
  And maybe this, this episode here doesn't land for everybody.
• 1:21:27
  But I just like the fact he's telling a different type of
• 1:21:29
  story within within Doctor Who that we haven't.
• 1:21:32
  I'm not saying it's 100% original, but we haven't seen
• 1:21:34
  anything like this for a long, a long, long time, Yeah.
• 1:21:40
  I think that with this being a story about toxic love and
• 1:21:46
  clearly my Facebook posts at the beginning being an example of
• 1:21:50
  toxic love, I still it's quite on brand that my Third Point was
• 1:21:56
  me. I quite like that.
• 1:21:58
  Reassessing this episode and liking it more and more overtime
• 1:22:01
  from initially hating it proves that fans are always wrong.
• 1:22:08
  Apart from us, we're always. Right.
• 1:22:10
  Apart from us, yeah. We're never in a great.
• 1:22:12
  Which which Can't agree on a single thing, but it's an
• 1:22:15
  episode of Subversion. My opinions of it had been
• 1:22:18
  subverted over time. I think it's a very clever
• 1:22:20
  episode, and I think it's a good example of why it's always good
• 1:22:24
  to re watch these ones a few years after they've gone out.
• 1:22:27
  The controversial ones, The ones you react badly to because
• 1:22:31
  you'll find there's probably actually a lot of gold in it
• 1:22:33
  that you never initially saw. It'll happen to me eventually
• 1:22:38
  with the Jerry Whit's career. It just will.
• 1:22:40
  Can't wait, Can't wait for you and me to get match inside this
• 1:22:44
  child tattoos. But that's the thing.
• 1:22:48
  It's something you can react to really badly at the time,
• 1:22:50
  because suddenly just become like quite a laugh or quite a
• 1:22:53
  bit of fun. It's like the Doctor being half
• 1:22:55
  human in the TV movie. People weren't meant to for it
• 1:22:58
  in this episode. It's literally being a gag.
• 1:23:01
  Naturally, time just turns these things into.
• 1:23:03
  The Doctor Kissing Grace Holloway was the end of the
• 1:23:05
  world, you know, Yeah. Yeah, and.
• 1:23:08
  Now a lot of people are in the way.
• 1:23:09
  He's not kissing people. Yeah, he's he's definitely going
• 1:23:12
  to shag someone, I'm sure if. Yeah, it'll be a man.
• 1:23:15
  It'll be a man. Yeah.
• 1:23:16
  Doctors having sex with a man in in the within the next two
• 1:23:19
  seasons. Mine's kind.
• 1:23:21
  That's how that's the cold open to episode one.
• 1:23:23
  It's. It's it's actually him shagging
• 1:23:25
  the cyber break that is the cold open.
• 1:23:28
  That is cold. Do you, I know, sleep tonight.
• 1:23:32
  My last thing is sort of similar, but I'm choosing the
• 1:23:37
  two of you because. We're not in it.
• 1:23:41
  Shut up. I'm not finished.
• 1:23:43
  And I'm paying you a compliment, all right?
• 1:23:45
  Really it's because I kind of did go into this one hell Ben
• 1:23:50
  looking for things not to like. Because I mean, I I don't think
• 1:23:54
  I considered it quite the nadir. It's not the wedding of River
• 1:23:57
  Song but it was like low this for me like as everything I felt
• 1:24:03
  the new series shouldn't be doing and and I wanted to prove
• 1:24:07
  a point to the two of you as well.
• 1:24:09
  It's just how terribly it was and colour me blind when I'm
• 1:24:11
  watching it this morning and having a great time with it and
• 1:24:15
  it's you guys have inspired that and talking about it as well
• 1:24:18
  means I can see it through different eyes and I can see a
• 1:24:21
  lot of things that I wouldn't have seen on my own.
• 1:24:24
  So I've enjoyed this far more than I thought I would.
• 1:24:28
  And so, yes, the two of you, I put the episode as a whole in
• 1:24:32
  general, because it's probably gone.
• 1:24:34
  What was I'll give it a three. I'll probably give it a six now.
• 1:24:41
  That's a big job. In the points, you know, and
• 1:24:44
  it's it's almost primarily for the Doctor and Clara, which I
• 1:24:48
  just think those things are just fabulous.
• 1:24:51
  Yeah. I didn't think I was going to
• 1:24:53
  say the word fabulous once tonight.
• 1:24:55
  No, but you did say Nadia of Doctor Who, which I say a lot.
• 1:25:00
  It's your guilty world. Yeah, but there's only one
• 1:25:02
  person that mentioned Pete, Doctor Who in this podcast, and
• 1:25:04
  it wasn't. Me, I, I also said astonishing
• 1:25:09
  at one point. And only I.
• 1:25:10
  Mentioned Doctor. Con.
• 1:25:11
  I think. Oh, I did.
• 1:25:15
  I did. In the first episode, well boys,
• 1:25:20
  where are we heading next? Well, we have a couple of
• 1:25:23
  choices, don't we? Go on, boys.
• 1:25:25
  We've talked about doing the keys of Marinus.
• 1:25:28
  Oh, click. No, let's just do that
• 1:25:30
  conversation over. Well, the Star Beast is pressing
• 1:25:33
  after these two as well. Oh, maybe we should just get
• 1:25:37
  that out of your system. Let's see the Star Beast 1st and
• 1:25:39
  then. We'll beast that.
• 1:25:40
  Married us and and Joe. We're going to do war time at
• 1:25:43
  some point as well, aren't we? Yeah, I was quite surprised how
• 1:25:46
  much I enjoyed that. Have you seen that, Luke Malloy?
• 1:25:49
  Yeah, it's a nice little 20 minute.
• 1:25:50
  Romp. I go around.
• 1:25:53
  Now we're going. My name is John.
• 1:26:00
  Yeah. Great.
• 1:26:01
  Well, OK. Well, let's reconvene for the
• 1:26:03
  Star Beast soon. Excellent.
• 1:26:06
  Just thank you very much for your time.
• 1:26:08
  Thank you. Thank you, Joe.
• 1:26:10
  Sex do do is the honours. Oh, I got it there.