Latest / Guy Football Focus with Guy Haberman / 49ers Injuries and The Kyle Shanahan Debate with ETHAN STRAUSS

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49ers Injuries and The Kyle Shanahan Debate with ETHAN STRAUSS · Guy Football Focus with Guy Haberman

0:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey guys, guy here.
0:02
[SPEAKER_00]: It is Wednesday and today I had a conversation.
0:05
[SPEAKER_00]: A long conversation and the whole thing is not here with Ethan Strauss, House of Strauss, Substack, Big Niner's fan, although it's not the main, actually it's not even near the main part of his content, but he loves talking about it.
0:18
[SPEAKER_00]: So I want him to show, and what I have here today is not the whole conversation, but two things I think you would find interesting.
0:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Number one,
0:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Ethan's got a theory on how to stop injuries.
0:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't like it, but we'll get into that.
0:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the second thing I asked him a question, calling him a football outsider, because he loves football, but he's not in the football world.
0:41
[SPEAKER_00]: What is his football outsider opinion of Kyle Shanahan?
0:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Genius or not?
0:47
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's what we're getting into in the show today.
0:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Thursday, I'll be back at a nine or practice house out there on Tuesday.
0:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't go on Wednesday.
0:54
[SPEAKER_00]: It's some other stuff to take care of.
0:56
[SPEAKER_00]: But I don't know.
0:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I did not do a practice reaction Tuesday.
1:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe I'll do one Thursday.
1:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Frankly, I'm tired of them.
1:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I've said what I have to say about practice.
1:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Ricky Pierce all looks good.
1:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Ricky Pierce all made a great catch again on Tuesday.
1:12
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad he didn't get hurt on Wednesday.
1:16
[SPEAKER_00]: But, uh, and I hope he gets through Thursday fine.
1:19
[SPEAKER_00]: But I don't know.
1:20
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll see.
1:20
[SPEAKER_00]: If I'm inspired to do a practice reaction Thursday, but like at a certain point, let's get to the games.
1:27
[SPEAKER_00]: So, uh, here we go.
1:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Here is part of a conversation with Ethan Strauss, which you can hear the entire conversation if you want, over on his house of Strauss.
1:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Substack.
1:40
[SPEAKER_00]: This one, I believe, is free the full conversation on his substack because
1:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Niners breakdowns is not what his customer pays for.
1:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, here we go.
1:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I understand the idea that you have to practice football to play football.
1:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Kyle Shanahan keeps saying it.
1:56
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to build calluses.
1:57
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a worry about how you're going to get hurt if you don't practice and you don't take some hits.
2:03
[SPEAKER_01]: But have we gone to the point where you're just better off almost doing nothing other than weightlifting?
2:09
[SPEAKER_01]: building the armor up cardio.
2:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Study in the film room and it's worth it just to have literally everybody healthy week one and maybe everybody is doing it wrong.
2:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that crazy to think that because of tradition?
2:24
[SPEAKER_01]: and coaches wanting to coach that they're actually doing it wrong and the future and we should do if you're some wacky billionaire and you're running a team is have these guys do absolutely nothing and just dealing with whatever game speed problems they have in week one.
2:39
[SPEAKER_00]: It'd be fun to see somebody to experiment with it.
2:41
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the problem with art with answering any of your questions is that they are built for somebody to say, no, Ethan, that's a dumb idea.
2:48
[SPEAKER_00]: And then immediately prove that they are also a close-minded thinker.
2:53
[SPEAKER_00]: You're overly, I'm not sure that you're happy, but the thing I would say is,
2:59
[SPEAKER_00]: The way that teams practice is built, I think pretty scientifically, the times they practice, the days they practice, the amount of time they have off, like this is done with a lot of consultation of sleep specialists and trainers and
3:15
[SPEAKER_00]: you know they've got GPS monitors on all the players they know how hard you're practicing they know if you're coming back from injury and you are ramping up to return that the drills you ran on the side weren't full speed so they're not going to return you to practice all that kind of stuff so I think that's the first thing right these are not
3:34
[SPEAKER_00]: coaches banging their head against the wall going, this is the way I did it before, and so this is the way we'll do it now.
3:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Oklahoma drill.
3:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Oklahoma hammer drill two days, a hundred and fifteen degrees, you can get water when we're done.
3:47
[SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, there's also you cannot deny that they're very injured.
3:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you saw our friend Tim Kahler, Kami's theory, because he asked, I was there yesterday when he asked Kyle Shanahan about it.
3:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And Kyle, I mean, the coach, the nighters, I'm saying to some of your listeners who probably aren't listening at all.
4:09
[SPEAKER_00]: But even he's perplex.
4:10
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, yeah, we're going to study.
4:11
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to, it's clear.
4:12
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to have to study this again.
4:15
[SPEAKER_00]: There's just so little data.
4:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the study, because every human body, every body is different, right?
4:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think Kawakami's theory was interesting.
4:23
[SPEAKER_00]: He said in the SF standard today, he wrote, my personal theory is that most injuries are random.
4:32
[SPEAKER_00]: But the Niners of this era have been a little too eager to add plans with recent injury histories.
4:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I totally disagree.
4:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And a little too dismissive of some veterans who aren't flashy, but habitually stay healthy.
4:43
[SPEAKER_00]: So he's saying the best way to stay healthy or to be healthy is to bring in players who have a history of being healthy.
4:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Like how do you connect a hyper extended knee and a practice to a hamstring in OTAs to a high ankle sprain in a game to, right?
5:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's very hard to connect.
5:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay.
5:04
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's a little more complicated.
5:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't totally disagree with him.
5:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, I disagree that there are injury prone people and not injury prone people.
5:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I think, and it's interesting because I remember dealing with all this stuff with Tim when he was my boss.
5:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And we were talking about warrior situations and injuries.
5:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm almost looking at this more from the NBA perspective.
5:25
[SPEAKER_01]: NBA perspective is you shouldn't be walking in your first game with a bunch of injured guys that's thought typically what happens in the NBA.
5:32
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm almost shocked because of what I'm used to in the non-contact sport.
5:38
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think there are injuries that are luck
5:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there are injuries that we're going to happen.
5:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's the fault of somebody, frankly.
5:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if it's the fault of the player or the training staff, but it's a load issue.
5:52
[SPEAKER_01]: It's something that should have been monitored.
5:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes, as human beings, what we call luck is just our lack of understanding.
5:59
[SPEAKER_01]: It's almost like when people would see something amazing in nature many years ago, and they'd call it magic or blame the gods.
6:06
[SPEAKER_01]: No, things happen for reasons.
6:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Everything happens for a reason.
6:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes there's an injury where
6:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
6:13
[SPEAKER_01]: There was that crazy with Gordon Hayward where he was going up for a lob and he gets just knocked at a crazy angle and anybody's leg would have shattered in that position with that force from that angle.
6:26
[SPEAKER_01]: But then you see these non-contact injuries.
6:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they're non-contact injuries.
6:30
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a time bomb.
6:31
[SPEAKER_01]: That's just something that was going to happen.
6:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't buy the idea from teams that this is just luck.
6:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously there's a component of luck, but I think it's like anything else in sports where you have shooting luck, but you have better shots and you work to get better shots because on balance you'll get better luck.
6:52
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how I see it with injuries and it might be unfair and a sport is chaotic and violent as NFL football.
7:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know the answer.
7:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that when I watch football up close, I'm amazed on every play that somebody doesn't get hurt.
7:08
[SPEAKER_00]: There is so much force movement.
7:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Really, it's around the line of skirmish running plays, legs.
7:14
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't tell who's leg is who's who's falling from where.
7:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to see, I want to hear you call a game that way, just for what are the games or you're just going, oh, oh, Jesus.
7:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's how I feel.
7:28
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how it probably feels you're a parent.
7:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm about to be a parent to watch your childhood on a jungle gym, right?
7:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I remember there's a new park in San Francisco.
7:40
[SPEAKER_00]: The tunnel tops out by Chrissy Field have you been out there?
7:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I have not.
7:44
[SPEAKER_00]: It's fantastic.
7:45
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really awesome park.
7:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Like jungle, you know, all kinds of kids stuff.
7:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And they've got a coffee shop and it's, it's great.
7:51
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of great walking.
7:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And we were there with a friend recently and there's like this really high, really high rock climbing wall.
8:01
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not supervised, it's just there for kids to climb.
8:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was standing with my friend Ashley, as she's watching her daughter, you know, her young child at nine feet in the air.
8:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And I said, is this terrifying for you?
8:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Cause it's terrifying for me.
8:16
[SPEAKER_01]: She said, yeah, but at this point in the season, you got to build calisism stuff.
8:21
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's, it's true.
8:22
[SPEAKER_00]: She said, I have to, I just have to allow her to do this.
8:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, I, that's why I feel watching every football game is you walk out of it, but I think we have a,
8:35
[SPEAKER_00]: in a weird way like an unrealistic sense sometimes of how healthy you should be walking out of a game because we see people walk off the field and we don't see what they do to maintain and get ready for the next Sunday or Saturday.
8:47
[SPEAKER_00]: But I don't know the answer here for the Niners to your original question.
8:51
[SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting.
8:52
[SPEAKER_00]: a football person would say you couldn't get to week one healthy was zero practice and then everybody would really struggle to get to the second week of the season because they're not actually prepared to take on that physicality.
9:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Now your response would be, well, I got it.
9:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Brandon, I used to come back week seven.
9:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and just be ready to roll and you shake off a couple of weeks the rest, but if you're a ball skeptic football skeptic, football.
9:21
[SPEAKER_00]: That would be their answer is well, just because we get to week one healthy doesn't mean we'll be healthy week five.
9:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we'll be more beat up week five because we weren't ready for the season, which
9:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
9:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I guess they treat it kind of like running for marathons, which I've never done, but you talk to people who do, you never run.
9:37
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't run the full distance, right?
9:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
9:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you watch these NFL, they don't do the full thing, like Brockford, he's not out there playing four quarters of football and the Trent Williams isn't playing any.
9:48
[SPEAKER_00]: But Nick posts isn't, I mean, they do a joint practice.
9:50
[SPEAKER_00]: They practice against each other.
9:52
[SPEAKER_00]: They kind of treated that way.
9:53
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't run the full distance, but they build up to being able by the end of the year to have survived seventeen weeks.
10:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the marathon analogy makes sense because you do have to ramp up for a marathon.
10:08
[SPEAKER_01]: But what's so strange about football is, hey, many things.
10:13
[SPEAKER_01]: But this is when I hadn't thought about until recently, which is that these guys are at their most muscular day one of training camp.
10:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And in the off season, they can build up the armor.
10:25
[SPEAKER_01]: and then there's so much pain and injury and clashing that all they can really do is maintain it, but they're almost shrinking, they're weakening over the season.
10:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And from that vantage, in theory, wouldn't she just want to be doing that and building up the armor all the way to week one?
10:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
10:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I look, I just know what if something happens and I accidentally make a billion dollars, it seems like by the time that a NFL team might be up for sale, I might need ten billion.
10:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I might have to think a little bigger guy.
10:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying it.
10:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to be laughed out of the league like the fake using about four on five.
11:03
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what's going to happen.
11:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Every owner does it the same way.
11:05
[SPEAKER_00]: They come in with big ideas.
11:07
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to revolutionize.
11:09
[SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting to how to NBA teams.
11:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I guess you have eighty two games.
11:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Your individual game matters less in other sports.
11:15
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's hard to compare to football.
11:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Your week one game against the CX might be the one that decides the whole thing.
11:21
[SPEAKER_00]: You know?
11:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the NBA turned this season into preseason.
11:25
[SPEAKER_01]: The whole thing called load management was how they dealt with all of this and
11:30
[SPEAKER_01]: guys are getting hurt and it's this paradox of the more we understand about sports science the more guys are getting hurt and I think a lot of that has to do with just the demands of excellence and how optimizing for making the best play is doing the opposite for what's best for your body and make the best play is winning out and that's why you're seeing more of these tears which
11:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Could I make one more one more point on that before you transition you looked physically like you're about to transition to.
12:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I was I was but you have a you have a physical.
12:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell.
12:08
[SPEAKER_01]: But I mean when I look over at the thing I wrote down is that.
12:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I just know I've talked to basketball coaches who think that by the time a guy gets to college he's played way too much.
12:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Not too much, but so much, and the two games a day with AAU are three game games in two days, or whatever it is, that there is just so much wear and tear on them, basketball players, knees.
12:31
[SPEAKER_00]: As you know, basketball players describe it, it is like they're eventually everybody's brakes go out, meaning like your knees, right?
12:37
[SPEAKER_00]: As good as LeBron is, you watch him run around.
12:39
[SPEAKER_00]: His brakes aren't the same as the ones where, which of course they're not.
12:42
[SPEAKER_00]: There's just so much mileage.
12:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And that everybody's breaks will go out eventually after to your point of certain amount of load.
12:51
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, this did Drake Greenlaw blow out his Achilles in the Super Bowl running off the sideline because Wolfie hadn't done it then he was going to do it three place later or wasn't just the exact that specific movement that specific moment is what did it man.
13:07
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I knew the former.
13:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, that's where I think that's I remember hearing a doctor say that you played pickup basketball long enough.
13:13
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a matter of when not if.
13:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, I don't I don't think there is a way of avoiding that one.
13:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Now on to topic two.
13:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I do think there is just an overarching interesting question.
13:27
[SPEAKER_00]: The ongoing debate right if Kyle Shanahan had won one of the two superballs that he played in as a head coach or maybe the one as the coordinator and another as a head coach.
13:39
[SPEAKER_00]: There would be no debate about how good he is.
13:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think there's much debate.
13:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, I think he is clearly one of the best head coaches in the NFL.
13:53
[SPEAKER_00]: His track record says it the fact that so many other coaches continue to try and do or evolve what he does says it.
14:05
[SPEAKER_00]: But there is this like very online.
14:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's very online.
14:09
[SPEAKER_00]: We should we should ask your neighbor if it's very online.
14:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, neighbor.
14:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Have you heard of Grant Cohen?
14:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Have you heard of the Coenzo in neighbor?
14:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Have you?
14:13
[SPEAKER_00]: He's heard of the Coenzo.
14:13
[SPEAKER_01]: He's heard of the Coenzo.
14:14
[SPEAKER_01]: He's heard of the Coenzo.
14:14
[SPEAKER_01]: He's heard of the Coenzo.
14:15
[SPEAKER_01]: He's heard of the Coenzo.
14:15
[SPEAKER_01]: He's heard of the Coenzo.
14:16
[SPEAKER_01]: He's heard of the Coenzo.
14:17
[SPEAKER_01]: He's heard of the Coenzo.
14:17
[SPEAKER_01]: He's heard of the Coenzo.
14:18
[SPEAKER_00]: He's heard of the Coenzo.
14:18
[SPEAKER_00]: He's heard of the Coenzo.
14:19
[SPEAKER_00]: He's heard of the Coenzo.
14:19
[SPEAKER_00]: He's heard of the Coenzo.
14:20
[SPEAKER_00]: He's heard of the Coenzo.
14:20
[SPEAKER_00]: He's heard of the Coenzo.
14:21
[SPEAKER_00]: He's heard of the Coenzo.
14:21
[SPEAKER_00]: He's heard of the Coenzo.
14:22
[SPEAKER_00]: He's heard of the Coenzo.
14:23
[SPEAKER_01]: He's heard of the Coenzo.
14:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for nothing else that he knows low low.
14:28
[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't he's my age.
14:29
[SPEAKER_01]: This guy is there's no way he's heard of law.
14:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no offense to the law.
14:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you pictured an old man.
14:35
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not he wasn't reading chronicle.
14:36
[SPEAKER_00]: He wasn't watching chronicle live.
14:38
[SPEAKER_00]: You were
14:40
[SPEAKER_00]: NBC sports.
14:41
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's not too old.
14:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been watching all that stuff.
14:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I look, I don't understand how he interfaces with the world.
14:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I've got a lot of questions, but he's happier than anybody else I know.
14:52
[SPEAKER_00]: So whatever he's doing, but anyway, that's my question.
14:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Give me your outsider, your football skeptic outsider, opinion on Kyle Shanahan's place.
15:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I, it's so funny you mentioned this.
15:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a bias against Kyle Shanahan.
15:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And it has something to do with something, Lulco and said, it's stuck in my mind.
15:16
[SPEAKER_01]: It might be unfair guy.
15:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel terrible saying it.
15:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like a snob.
15:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't even want to tell you about it.
15:24
[SPEAKER_01]: But I was watching Lulco talk about Kyle Shanahan and Lulco and for those who don't know, Crochety sports writer out here.
15:36
[SPEAKER_01]: who covered bill wall in depth.
15:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think a lot of laws perspective is.
15:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Guys, not not any kind of bill wall.
15:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's all complicated because I think Kyle has been, let's say, Kurt with low, Wilson Grant, who covers the team and Grant has, I can imagine hearing this for the first time.
15:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah, just describe.
15:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to explain it to my neighbor.
16:02
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all just disintegrating upon impact.
16:04
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just the words are setting like gibberish as I try to get it all out.
16:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's try to simplify it.
16:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's try to get back to what you were saying.
16:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Kyle Shanahan, low cone, uh, low will say in to paraphritis.
16:15
[SPEAKER_01]: He's saying, you know, people say he's some great intellectual and it's so smart.
16:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Is he coming across that that way?
16:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you see him talk?
16:23
[SPEAKER_01]: See, it's what I know.
16:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Like Bill Walsh, Bill Walsh.
16:26
[SPEAKER_01]: No, that was using intellectual.
16:28
[SPEAKER_01]: You could imagine Bill Walsh being a professor.
16:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Couldn't you?
16:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you could imagine that.
16:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't see that with Kyle Shanahan.
16:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he doesn't seem dumb, but a genius.
16:40
[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't seem like a genius.
16:44
[SPEAKER_00]: What I love, you know, the heart of your football skeptic thing is that less so now, but definitely once upon a time, that it's how a column this thought, a newspaper columnary, the fan was not consumed with twelve personnel and the old twenty-two film.
17:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
17:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's part of the genius of the football skeptic.
17:07
[SPEAKER_00]: It's part of the genius of low.
17:09
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a very fun, let's let's think about this on a very fundamental level first.
17:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
17:14
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's not everyone's it's an advantage for your brand to work that way.
17:18
[SPEAKER_00]: I think.
17:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I don't want to be close minded.
17:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I've read Mike Silver's book that is actually describing to me.
17:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Kyle Shanahan is a genius here are the reasons and why here is the background on why Kyle Shanahan is a genius and then I watch him do a press conference guy and it's Yeah, we're gonna work on that stuff and I don't know and stuff, you know stuff It's just kind of like stuff, you know again, we do do that stuff and stuff and stuff and I just hear a little lulls voice not a genius not a genius.
17:52
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a genius talk like that not a genius and
17:55
[SPEAKER_01]: It's unfair.
17:56
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't have to be the most articulate guy in the world to be great and maybe because you're so great and my opically focused on what you do.
18:06
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not caring about how you communicate and seeding your words, those fancy talk and pretentiousness that I want.
18:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And yet it's just how I feel when I watch him at the same time what you're saying is true.
18:19
[SPEAKER_01]: We go back to that Super Bowl, twenty twenty three and I apologize to the forty-nineers fans, likely the only people still sticking around at this point in the conversation.
18:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Bringing that up, but I remember they had the camera on the sidelines on that fourth and one and overtime against the chiefs.
18:37
[SPEAKER_01]: and Trent Williams is screaming out to the defense.
18:39
[SPEAKER_01]: It's almost the tragedy.
18:41
[SPEAKER_01]: It's this, it's like that scene from Breaking Bad where Walter White is in the car and he's yelling from behind the windshield.
18:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Trent Williams is yelling, watch for the quarterback keeper.
18:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Watch for the quarterback keeper.
18:54
[SPEAKER_01]: He's trying to tell them on the defense of somebody's too far away.
18:58
[SPEAKER_01]: They can't hear him.
19:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Nick Bosa, when they do that handoff for them one,
19:04
[SPEAKER_01]: He goes right for where the running back is.
19:08
[SPEAKER_01]: My home's wheels out.
19:10
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a quarterback keeper.
19:11
[SPEAKER_01]: He runs for this big gain on fourth of them one now.
19:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's say boasts are heard, Trent Williams.
19:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And he just hit my home's in the backfield.
19:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's plausible.
19:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Now Kyle has a super ball.
19:24
[SPEAKER_01]: This is just a bit like that.
19:25
[SPEAKER_01]: That right there could.
19:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say don't you think if the left tackle knows what might be coming.
19:31
[SPEAKER_00]: The defense position now one.
19:33
[SPEAKER_00]: What might be coming?
19:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe Nick Bosa was executing the fundamental of the play and somebody else was supposed to be there.
19:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but it was stupid.
19:44
[SPEAKER_01]: It was so stupid.
19:45
[SPEAKER_01]: This is now I'm getting PTSD.
19:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Tony Romo was literally saying on the broadcast as this was happening, they're going to give it to my homes.
19:54
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not going to hand the ball off.
19:56
[SPEAKER_01]: with the season on the line, fourth of one to Pacheco, or whoever was back there, they're not going to do that.
20:03
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't think that way.
20:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Coaches don't think that way.
20:06
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the first lesson that Sabin ever learned.
20:09
[SPEAKER_01]: He told a story about it.
20:10
[SPEAKER_01]: That when it's situation critical, think players not place that you got to get the ball in the hands of your best player.
20:19
[SPEAKER_01]: It was going to be a cuby keeper, which Kelsey is some sort of option, which is what it was for him to throw.
20:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I've talked about this with Steve Kerr where Steph missed the shot in twenty nineteen in the finals.
20:34
[SPEAKER_01]: He missed that shot that won the Raptors.
20:37
[SPEAKER_01]: The finals and I was talking about it with Steve and how yeah, I bet Quinn Cook could have gotten really open there.
20:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I really bet Quinn Cook could have gotten open there.
20:48
[SPEAKER_01]: But damn it Ethan, I'm not giving the ball to Quinn Cook there.
20:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, Ron, remember once got criticized heavily for passing the booby Gibson, then booby Gibson hit the shot.
20:59
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like the bronze shouldn't you be taking that shot?
21:02
[SPEAKER_01]: There's an argument for Quinn Cook getting the ball and that situation, right?
21:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there was an argument once upon a time for Steve Curtis at the ball and Steve Kurt made the shot.
21:10
[SPEAKER_01]: He did, but I also think Steve was a bit of a more proven commodity.
21:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
21:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think you should assume because there are two things that have to happen.
21:24
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to know it's coming and you have to execute the proper defense of it.
21:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's more likely they didn't execute the proper defense than that they were surprised.
21:31
[SPEAKER_00]: If Tony Romano and Trent Williams knew that I think it's also likely the defense that Nick most didn't know that it was a possibility.
21:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if he didn't know it was different.
21:40
[SPEAKER_00]: He didn't know it was a certainty.
21:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he just didn't know it was a certainty.
21:44
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm sure that's where the play was supposed to go.
21:47
[SPEAKER_01]: That she gets us into our rabbit hole of do we make the coaching.
21:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'll go back to the original point on Shannon and I also think
21:54
[SPEAKER_00]: People are different.
21:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I've set a stat in many Kyle Shanahan press conferences.
21:59
[SPEAKER_00]: It's clear that his mind moves quickly.
22:03
[SPEAKER_00]: To me, like I think his mind moves very quickly.
22:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Where did he grow up?
22:09
[SPEAKER_00]: He grew up in an NFL locker room.
22:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I think if you look at his history, he's very part of Kyle Shanahan is player-related ability.
22:19
[SPEAKER_01]: So much to be cool.
22:22
[SPEAKER_01]: He named one of his kids after Lil Wayne.
22:24
[SPEAKER_01]: There is a little bit of he's trying to connect with the players and be cool.
22:29
[SPEAKER_00]: How many times have you heard, you know, Kyle Shanna hands hard on receivers?
22:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Why?
22:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Why do people say, because he was a receiver, he is, you know, player.
22:39
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't think of him that way because he didn't play in the NFL, but I think that's part of his mindset.
22:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't remember.
22:46
[SPEAKER_01]: You think there's a different Shanna Han who talks.
22:49
[SPEAKER_01]: He sounds like David Attenborough and he's out.
22:52
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I think he's who he is.
22:54
[SPEAKER_00]: That's who he is, but that's a funny idea.
22:56
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think, here's the other, my other, the inside I could add to you is that I call in college football games and I mentioned this before, but that means that every week I'm in a coach's meeting with two different coaching staff, the head coach, the offense according to the defense of quarter.
23:15
[SPEAKER_00]: It is more often than not that somebody in the offensive staff room in that meeting, the OC, maybe a quarterback, maybe a quarterback, somebody on the field, pregame when I'm down there talking to people, brings up Kyle Schanahan and his offense.
23:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, as it is today, because fans will see people say like, oh, maybe it's he's stale and it's passed in by.
23:35
[SPEAKER_00]: All these guys in college study, they take his plays, and Kevin O'Connell, and Matt the Floor, and Sean McVeigh.
23:42
[SPEAKER_00]: But they still also take stuff from the forty-niners.
23:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that tells us that there is still an evolution going on.
23:51
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a constant evolution.
23:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And he is a part of it.
23:54
[SPEAKER_00]: He is not just the originator, even though he's not even the, like Mike Shanahan, is the, you know, Bill Wallace, like all this stuff goes back.
24:01
[SPEAKER_00]: But in this modern version,
24:03
[SPEAKER_00]: he is still iterating in a way that the people in the business find useful.
24:11
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, Ricky, this is getting really deep in the weeds.
24:13
[SPEAKER_01]: This is going to the last thing.
24:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Last thing, and we got to add here, but I can do this all day to talk about these things with you.
24:19
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I believe.
24:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe he is a genius.
24:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't feel it in my bones.
24:24
[SPEAKER_01]: This is like a cow heard thing.
24:26
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, there are things you believe, and there are things you have feel.
24:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe it.
24:32
[SPEAKER_01]: That he is.
24:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Folks, Kyle Shanahan, not a genius you feel, but he's a genius you see on Sundays.
24:46
[SPEAKER_01]: and where was I know that's what I think and there was that route off that bootleg looking thing you were called the game you remember pretty
25:03
[SPEAKER_01]: stopped.
25:04
[SPEAKER_01]: He had this crossing around.
25:05
[SPEAKER_01]: He just stopped on a dime.
25:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And everybody was copying pure salt.
25:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it was pure souls decision, but if it was his decision, I feel like that's kind of risky.
25:13
[SPEAKER_01]: If you just go, oh, I'm just going to stop suddenly here.
25:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe that's their chemistry.
25:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I actually thought
25:19
[SPEAKER_01]: maybe that's a shanty hand thing and that's that's more of the iterating and now that everybody's so scared of the crosser we're gonna have guys just suddenly stop like that so that's a random thought i don't know i was just you know free style and i don't know if we're asking people to recall a play from the second preseason game if they happen to watch the film i do know what you're talking about yeah you know what i'm talking about i'm going to play made me think and i think this is a separate uh...
25:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Two years ago, the samdarn old tray lands, Brock pretty was coming back from injury.
25:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Who's the better quarterback?
25:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I set out that training camp to grade every quarterback throw in training camp.
25:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember using the same system that Pro football focused uses.
26:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Adding plus.
26:05
[SPEAKER_00]: .five minus.
26:06
[SPEAKER_00]: five plus one plus one point five down to minus one point five good throws bet throws.
26:13
[SPEAKER_00]: And what you learn, what I learned,
26:16
[SPEAKER_00]: is that most throws that a quarterback makes in a game are zero throws or plus point five and minus point five.
26:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I won't go too far in the grading scale, but the basics are they're the basics.
26:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they are zero throws and I haven't looked it last year, but I remember this from a couple years ago.
26:35
[SPEAKER_00]: If you look at plus one and plus one point five throws, so these are the exceptional throws beyond
26:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I call them the layups or the price of admission throws.
26:46
[SPEAKER_00]: To be a quarterback, the price of admission is you make a bunch of zero throws.
26:50
[SPEAKER_00]: If you look at the plus one and plus one point five throws, the exceptional throws.
26:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I think in twenty twenty three the guy that led the NFL in exceptional throws was Matthew Stafford and he had somewhere in the range of fifty three of them.
27:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, if you divide that by seventeen games we're talking that in the course of a game.
27:09
[SPEAKER_00]: The best quarterback and making exceptional throws is making three again.
27:17
[SPEAKER_00]: that most of the position is just putting the ball on the money and what looks to everybody else like a simple throw.
27:23
[SPEAKER_00]: But in fact, the backup quarterbacks in the NFL don't consistently make the zero throws.
27:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Kyle Shanahan, his favorite quote that I have before he drafted train lands, he said there aren't thirty two people on the face of the earth that can play quarterback at an acceptable level.
27:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, acceptable is the key word right there, acceptable.
27:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, not not exceptional, not exceptional.
27:46
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, according to back folks, you know, people think it's the position of the exceptional.
27:55
[SPEAKER_01]: When really it's the position of the acceptable.
27:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you the Williams?
28:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Not acceptable.
28:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Not acceptable.
28:06
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a great point.
28:08
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very different from the NBA.
28:09
[SPEAKER_01]: NBA Superstar is doing repeatedly with the ball something nobody else can do and just pressing that advantage and replicating it again and again.
28:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, some of the points come off garbage junk some offensive rebound, but
28:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, a lot of what Steph Curry is doing every game or Gilgis Alexander is doing every game are a bunch of things that appear just cannot do repeatedly repeatedly.
28:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's a very different way of looking at the quarterback position where a lot of it's just taking out the trash in a way or just doing what you're supposed to do.
28:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, you might have your doubts about this podcast guy.
28:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Seriously.
28:54
[SPEAKER_01]: You're a skeptic about this podcast and the skeptic about the NFL.
28:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I loved this podcast.
28:59
[SPEAKER_01]: This scratch the niche of mine.
29:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what it's, but it was great.
29:05
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you have to promote for us?
29:07
[SPEAKER_00]: You always say you're so cool.
29:09
[SPEAKER_00]: You're too cool.
29:10
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got a YouTube channel.
29:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it translates to anything.
29:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think anybody in hour in the nineteenth minute of the second hour of a podcast goes, oh, this person just promoted something.
29:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me go find it in the era where we can just if somebody found it interesting, they were just Google.
29:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Google it.
29:27
[SPEAKER_00]: You would think you'd be.
29:28
[SPEAKER_00]: That is what I think.
29:29
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I think.
29:31
[SPEAKER_01]: You would be surprised, though, sir.
29:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
29:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I would.
29:34
[SPEAKER_01]: You would be.
29:35
[SPEAKER_01]: There are some marketing bucks who listen to this.
29:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's crazy.
29:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I, I shuttered this thing.
29:41
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not surprised by that.
29:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I know people listen to this.
29:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just saying.
29:45
[SPEAKER_00]: If you don't want to understand, they just know how to find it.
29:47
[SPEAKER_00]: They just Google it.
29:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I suppose you're correct.
29:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you're not, yes, Andy me, but you are factually probably correct about that.
29:56
[SPEAKER_01]: It's more of a rhythm thing.
29:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I don't know how you end things.
29:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not good at ending the thing.
30:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, Irish goodbye on everything.
30:02
[SPEAKER_01]: That's it.
30:03
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
30:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, see you.