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Medical Examiner's Nightmare: MASS MURDER AT FARMHOUSE · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories with
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  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. I'm executive producer Jackie Howard. It's been five
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  Speaker 1: years since eight people, seven adults and a teenage boy
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  Speaker 1: were murdered in four homes in Pike County, Ohio. Edward
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  Speaker 1: Jake Wagner has plenty guilty to eight counts of aggravated
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  Speaker 1: murder in the depths of the Rodent family. Wagner's parents
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  Speaker 1: and older brother are still facing murder charges themselves. An
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  Speaker 1: investigators say this was an elaborate and long planned execution
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  Speaker 1: plot to get rid of anyone who might stand in
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  Speaker 1: the way of custody and control of Jack Wagner's child.
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  Speaker 1: The first alarm was raised when Chris Roden's sister in
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  Speaker 1: law called nine one at seven forty nine. AM listen,
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  Speaker 1: kay my brother in laws who stays through and look?
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  Speaker 1: I think the hell out of them? Okay, were all hearts? Man?
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  Speaker 1: Can you counting with county? That's my county, it's my county.
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  Speaker 1: Hugging that okay? Okay? I mean you get out of
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  Speaker 1: the house, think you drive over there? That's like here? Okay,
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  Speaker 1: what's your name mine? What is your brother in law's name?
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  Speaker 1: What's your brother in law's name? Man? Yeah, what's your name?
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  Speaker 1: Christ Versing, Garry Rose, Fanking, Gary Road? First, un head,
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  Speaker 1: look like the dad think you're Road? I think the
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  Speaker 1: great said, it's like one husband out of them. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: if there's anybody else in the house, I know. Okay.
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  Speaker 1: The bard was law school, was got here but on
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  Speaker 1: her friends he was ill? Then in isn't it a
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  Speaker 1: landing on the floor. I need to get out of
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  Speaker 1: the house and starting now. Okay. Shortly after that, Kenneth
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  Speaker 1: Roden's cousin also called nine one one, Yeah, I need
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  Speaker 1: a days come out to post. Okay, uh, it's all
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  Speaker 1: that stuff. It's on the news. I just found, just
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  Speaker 1: found my cousin was again shop wind Okay, got mine?
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  Speaker 1: So no, okay here and I don't know what his
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  Speaker 1: address is it don't he don't have a boss, you
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  Speaker 1: don't have a bo Okay, I'll be staying out my
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  Speaker 1: a very well, no, sir, what do you think Kenneth Rode? Yeah, okay,
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  Speaker 1: so ny how does the house? I'm out of the
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  Speaker 1: house right now. I just went in horror and check
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  Speaker 1: and I again. Eight murders in four homes. That's a nightmare.
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  Speaker 1: For forensic investigators. Jeff goot Morgan, professor of forensics at
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  Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University and author of Ldendeath My Feet, joins me. Now,
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  Speaker 1: Joe Scott, how would you handle a crime scene like
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  Speaker 1: this over four homes? It's I got to tell you, Jackie.
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  Speaker 1: I've been on several scenes like this are similar to
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  Speaker 1: this over my career, where you've got multiple bodies that
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  Speaker 1: are scattered over a large area. To say that it
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  Speaker 1: is a logistical nightmare is an understatement because I think
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  Speaker 1: that most most people, particularly U Nancy's fans, can probably
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  Speaker 1: understand that we're very meticulous when it just comes to
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  Speaker 1: to one body, But just multiply that and think about
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  Speaker 1: everything that goes into literally processing each body, because as
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  Speaker 1: cruel as it sounds, each body or a body is
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  Speaker 1: a is your largest piece of evidence that you have
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  Speaker 1: at a scene. And without that body and without the
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  Speaker 1: information that it gives up, you're lost. You're loss from
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  Speaker 1: from Jump Street. So the moment that you cross that
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  Speaker 1: threshold onto that scene, you can never get that first
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  Speaker 1: step again. It only happens once. So you have to
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  Speaker 1: be prepared mentally and physically, and logistically and every other
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  Speaker 1: way before you ever set foot inside there, because you're
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  Speaker 1: you are the individual that is going to be annotating
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  Speaker 1: everything that's going on within there. Now, you know, most
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  Speaker 1: of time there's a team of us that go in.
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  Speaker 1: You're going to have crime scene investigators who are collecting
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  Speaker 1: you know, fiber evidence and all that sort of thing
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  Speaker 1: and ballistic evidence. And you're going to have probably a
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  Speaker 1: crime scene photographer who's their sole purpose is to actually
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  Speaker 1: be there and document everything photographically because you know, like
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  Speaker 1: the old saying, you know, a single photo, you know,
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  Speaker 1: it can speak a thousand words. So and that's a
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  Speaker 1: moment in time that you're having to capture that maybe
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  Speaker 1: you know, six months later or eight months later, in
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  Speaker 1: this case, five years later, it's going to tell you
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  Speaker 1: about that frozen moment in time, and you have to
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  Speaker 1: be very careful in capturing. And of course you've got
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  Speaker 1: the detective that's there, that's the lead investigators. He's taking
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  Speaker 1: notes and making observations. And then there's somebody like myself
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  Speaker 1: from the Medical Examiner's Office who's the medical legal death investigator,
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  Speaker 1: and we look at these scenes like this and we
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  Speaker 1: try to determine what exactly happened to this individual. First off,
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  Speaker 1: to bring about their death. But sometimes sometimes we can
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  Speaker 1: get an indication as to what was going on prior
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  Speaker 1: to death. Then in the midst of the death, which
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  Speaker 1: is something a lot of people don't hear about. It's
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  Speaker 1: called perimortem, which is in the middle of and then
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  Speaker 1: of course we document what has happened to the body afterwards.
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  Speaker 1: And so you have to be very careful, Jackie, because
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  Speaker 1: the case literally can be one or lost, or solved
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  Speaker 1: or unsolved by virtue of what you do in that
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  Speaker 1: one instant in time. And it's you know, lawyers, people
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  Speaker 1: like Nancy, they love to use the term you can
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  Speaker 1: never unring the bell. You can't get that soundback once
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  Speaker 1: the clapper hits inside of that bell, and that certainly
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  Speaker 1: rings true, pardon the pun. In forensics, you can't get
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  Speaker 1: that first act because if you go in and you
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  Speaker 1: step on something, or you don't pay attention to everything
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  Speaker 1: in your environment, you're ruined from the absolute beginning. Well,
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  Speaker 1: speaking of that, just got time must be an enemy
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  Speaker 1: for year at a scene like this over for home.
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  Speaker 1: It takes a lot of time to collect this much evidence.
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  Speaker 1: Does it degrade? I mean, it's the possibility of it
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  Speaker 1: degrading in the amount of time that it takes, and
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  Speaker 1: how many people would it take literally to process this
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  Speaker 1: many crime scenes. Well, okay, I'll give you an example.
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  Speaker 1: Many years ago, when I was working in Atlanta, we
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  Speaker 1: had a tragedy that occurred there that's been since referred
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  Speaker 1: to as the Buckhead shooting. And we had I don't
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  Speaker 1: know upwards, I think it was something like sixteen bodies.
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  Speaker 1: And these bodies were spread out all over kind of
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  Speaker 1: a large area. They were in a building, but they
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  Speaker 1: were on multiple locations. And I've had other mass homicides
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  Speaker 1: that have taken place, and the best way to do
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  Speaker 1: that is say, if you take body A. Okay, you
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  Speaker 1: take Body A, and you assign Team A to that body,
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  Speaker 1: and they are solely responsible for that body. They don't
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  Speaker 1: get involved with anything else. Their sole assignment is to
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  Speaker 1: handle all of the photography, all of the trace evidence,
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  Speaker 1: all of the measurements, anything else that comes into play,
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  Speaker 1: and of course the examination of the body. And you know,
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  Speaker 1: to your point, that creates a kind of a steadiness,
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  Speaker 1: if you will, because you've set the framework you know
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  Speaker 1: you're talking about, how you know, it doesn't matter what
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  Speaker 1: we do that the old hands on the clock never
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  Speaker 1: stop moving forward, do they. And so you can't freeze time.
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  Speaker 1: You can't say, oh, I want to do over time out.
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  Speaker 1: It's not like a ball game. Time is ticking off
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  Speaker 1: that clock. So everything that you have in that environment
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  Speaker 1: does in fact begin to degrade, whether it's blood evidence,
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  Speaker 1: what a strong wind comes along and blows away fiber,
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  Speaker 1: or if you've got something, say, for instance, that's outside
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  Speaker 1: the home, there's a rainstorm that comes up and you
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  Speaker 1: haven't accounted for it. Will rain is one of the
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  Speaker 1: worst enemies, you know for an investigator. But you know,
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  Speaker 1: there's even something that's that's more um, that's more critical
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  Speaker 1: than that sometimes, and that's that's the effect that time
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  Speaker 1: has on a body. Because you know, we hear about
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  Speaker 1: all these terms, and you hear this one overarch theme
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  Speaker 1: and death investigation. It's called the post mortal interval. We
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  Speaker 1: talk about it all the time. And that's that's a
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  Speaker 1: very significant thing because you know, one of the biggest
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  Speaker 1: questions people ask me as a medical legal death investigator
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  Speaker 1: is you know, well, hey, Morgan, when when did this
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  Speaker 1: person die? Well that's a central piece of the puzzle,
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  Speaker 1: isn't it. And when you have a multitude of bodies,
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  Speaker 1: you know, at a scene, the sequencing of all of that,
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  Speaker 1: When did they die, in what order did they die?
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  Speaker 1: How long have they been here in this particular state,
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  Speaker 1: Were they originally killed here, were they migrated somewhere? So
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  Speaker 1: all of that stuff comes into play. And the one denominator,
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  Speaker 1: the common denominator relative to that is time, and then
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  Speaker 1: you place all your other factors in place. So you
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  Speaker 1: have to be very attuned to this as you move
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  Speaker 1: down this line. And one of the most important elements
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  Speaker 1: here is that you may have actually heard of before.
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  Speaker 1: It's an odd terms called algor mortise, and what that
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  Speaker 1: means is it's actually the postmortem cooling of the body.
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  Speaker 1: You know, how at what temperature is the body when
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  Speaker 1: you get there as an investigator, and by measuring that temperature,
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  Speaker 1: you can actually there's a formula we can plug that
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  Speaker 1: into to get an idea as to what at what
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  Speaker 1: rate is the body decreasing in temperature. You know, our
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  Speaker 1: body temperature in life as ninety eight point six. You know,
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  Speaker 1: as an average, everybody's not at that, but you use
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  Speaker 1: that as an average and you kind of measure that
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  Speaker 1: as you move through time, and if we should say
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  Speaker 1: we show up at a scene and we've got a
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  Speaker 1: body that's at I don't know, ninety five degrees okay, Well,
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  Speaker 1: dependent upon the environment that they're in, we can kind
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  Speaker 1: of get a guestament that that person's been down roughly
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  Speaker 1: anywhere from three to maybe four and a half hours. Now,
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  Speaker 1: you can't really tie it down contrary to with see
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  Speaker 1: on TV, you can't tie it down any closer than that.
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  Speaker 1: But that time element is very important. And here's why,
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  Speaker 1: because once you're at the scene and you're with the body,
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  Speaker 1: if a body has taken on room temperature at that point,
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  Speaker 1: it's pointless to take the body temperature other than initially
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  Speaker 1: because that means that you're outside of a twelve hour block.
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  Speaker 1: Because at the twelfth hour after death, all of the
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  Speaker 1: energy that we've generated in life is gone, it's dissipated.
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  Speaker 1: So it's real important that once you get there, you
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  Speaker 1: get an initial body temperature and that will give us
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  Speaker 1: an idea. And you say, well, Morgan, that's that's kind
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  Speaker 1: of I don't understand that. Well, let me give you
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  Speaker 1: a great example. Let's say the police actually apprehend somebody
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  Speaker 1: or they're questioning somebody, and they have what's called an
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  Speaker 1: alibi for where they were, or they say they have
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  Speaker 1: an alibi. They say, well, I last saw them, you know,
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  Speaker 1: you know, two hours ago, but you know, based upon
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  Speaker 1: science a temperature, this person's been dead for at least
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  Speaker 1: six hours, so you can kind of with science you
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  Speaker 1: begin to chip away at that alibi and you say, no,
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  Speaker 1: you can't see them two hours ago, because I know
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  Speaker 1: that they've been dead for at least six or seven
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  Speaker 1: hours at this point. So that's why it's so important.
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  Speaker 1: And then you get an idea about the sequencing. You know,
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  Speaker 1: you get a mass casualty event, which in this little
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  Speaker 1: area is you look at that and you think, well,
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  Speaker 1: in what order did these people die? Is there is
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  Speaker 1: there any variables in the postmortem, the postmortem changes that
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  Speaker 1: have taken place, the stiffness of the body otherwise known
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  Speaker 1: as ryger mortis or you know algor mortis with the
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  Speaker 1: body temperature, or postmortem lividity, libra mortis, the settling of
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  Speaker 1: the blood. So all of these things are essential when
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  Speaker 1: we're trying to tell this tale of what happened in
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  Speaker 1: a mass casualty event. And this is, like I said,
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  Speaker 1: a mass casualty event, because you know, you look at
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  Speaker 1: someplace like, let's just take a big metropolitan area where
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  Speaker 1: maybe New York or Chicago. Now though it is a tragedy,
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  Speaker 1: if you have eight people dead and one of those locations,
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  Speaker 1: they're going to view that as as a mass casually,
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  Speaker 1: but it's not going to be as impactful there to
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  Speaker 1: the resources as it is in some place like say
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  Speaker 1: rural Ohio or another rural location in America. Its it
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  Speaker 1: puts a great strain on the resources and how you
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  Speaker 1: can respond and how you have to process it because,
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  Speaker 1: as you can imagine, in a in a tiny, little
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  Speaker 1: Appalachian village town, they're not going to have the same
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  Speaker 1: crime scene investigators or the same type of technology for instance,
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  Speaker 1: that say somebody in a large metropolitan area has You're
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  Speaker 1: gonna have to wait. You're gonna have to wait and
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  Speaker 1: call the state police, and state police are gonna have
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  Speaker 1: to show up. And what's happening that entire time, Well,
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  Speaker 1: time is bleeding off that clock. It's just kind of
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  Speaker 1: whittling away and going forward and forward, and the further
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  Speaker 1: you move out down that timeline, more evidence it's lost,
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  Speaker 1: more information is lost, and so it's critical to get
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  Speaker 1: there as quickly as your possible can. Crime stories with
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  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Joe the Pike County Sheriff at the prime
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  Speaker 1: Charles Readers said that these individuals their lives were taken
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  Speaker 1: in the most horrific way he'd ever seen, execution style.
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  Speaker 1: You came in like thieves in the night and took
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  Speaker 1: eight lives, some being children, the most horrific way I've
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  Speaker 1: ever seen in my twenty plus years. We are getting closer.
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  Speaker 1: We will find you. The family and the victims will
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  Speaker 1: have justice one day. We are coming. The autopsies revealed
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  Speaker 1: powder burns on the skin of some of the victims.
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  Speaker 1: What can you tell us about how these victims died?
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  Speaker 1: I can tell you if what the investigators and sheriff
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  Speaker 1: are saying, there's a level of brutality involved in this
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  Speaker 1: case that I think that would probably classify this is
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  Speaker 1: making it very very personal because if you're just going
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  Speaker 1: out to simply execute somebody, and I think the example
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  Speaker 1: people use many times it's like a mob hit, for instance,
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  Speaker 1: that a lot of people are familiar with because of
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  Speaker 1: modern media or news or maybe movies. You just see
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  Speaker 1: somebody simply shooting somebody in the back of the head
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  Speaker 1: and then walking away. There's there's almost an economy in
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  Speaker 1: the way somebody would do that. But when you begin
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  Speaker 1: to see what I classify as uber violence at a scene,
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  Speaker 1: then that breaks it down and kind of ties it
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  Speaker 1: back to a personal nature. Because isn't one stab wound,
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  Speaker 1: isn't one beating, isn't one bullet? Isn't that sufficient to
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  Speaker 1: the task? Why do you have to go down this
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  Speaker 1: road and get yourself involved in something like overkill? Which
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  Speaker 1: gives you, I think from a profile in standpoint, it
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  Speaker 1: gives you a rule at least it begins to form
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  Speaker 1: a picture of the type of person that the police
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  Speaker 1: might be looking for in a case like that, somebody
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  Speaker 1: that you had a proverbial axtagron. Let's take a listen
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  Speaker 1: to what WLWU Team News five reporter Brian Hemrick had
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  Speaker 1: to say about the autopsies when they were released. The
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  Speaker 1: coroner's preliminary report shows Christopher Roden's senior was shot nine times,
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  Speaker 1: including five times in the phase, three in the torso,
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  Speaker 1: and once in the arm. He appears to be the
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  Speaker 1: only one of eight with defensive wounds, indicating he may
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  Speaker 1: have been awake when the attack happened and was most
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  Speaker 1: likely the first one killed inside the same trailer. Gary
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  Speaker 1: Roden was shot three times in the head and face,
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  Speaker 1: including one shot that left a muzzle stamp on his temple,
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  Speaker 1: indicating a point blank shot. Next to her, A couple
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  Speaker 1: shot while in their bed with their week old baby
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  Speaker 1: between them, another child on the floor. Frankie Rodin was
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  Speaker 1: shot three times in the head and face. His girlfriend,
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  Speaker 1: Hannah Gilly, was shot five times in the head and face.
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  Speaker 1: One of the shots was through her eye. Both baby
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  Speaker 1: and the young child left unharmed. Just down the road,
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  Speaker 1: three more killed Dana Roden, Chris Senior's ex wife. She
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  Speaker 1: was shot five times across the forehead and in the temple,
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  Speaker 1: then up through the chin. Chris Roden Jr. He Was
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  Speaker 1: sixteen shot four times, including two through the top of
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  Speaker 1: his head, and his sister Hannah was shot twice in
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  Speaker 1: the head and in a trailer a few miles away.
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  Speaker 1: Kenneth Roden he was shot once through the right eye.
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  Speaker 1: Given what you said about the personal nature of this show,
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  Speaker 1: the corner said, all but one of the victims was
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  Speaker 1: shot more than one. Two people were shot five times,
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  Speaker 1: one person was shot nine times, shot at close range.
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  Speaker 1: The evidence showed that a couple of the individuals were
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  Speaker 1: awake when they were attacked. How would we know that
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  Speaker 1: there is a certain awareness that people have when they
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  Speaker 1: are being attacked as opposed to just slumbering. And I'm
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  Speaker 1: glad you mentioned that, Jackie. You know, again back to
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  Speaker 1: a case that I worked many many years ago. I
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  Speaker 1: had an entire family of eight that were killed in
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  Speaker 1: a very very small home. I mean it was tiny.
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  Speaker 1: This house couldn't have been more than thirteen hundred square
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  Speaker 1: feet and there were eight people living in that. Can
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  Speaker 1: you imagine. And one of the one of the one
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  Speaker 1: of the decedents that actually has always stuck in my
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  Speaker 1: mind with that case was a young girl that was
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  Speaker 1: thirteen years old at the time, and she was laying
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  Speaker 1: on a single size bed. You know, just imagine a
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  Speaker 1: tiny bed that you would put your young child in.
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  Speaker 1: And she was laying on that bed, and she had
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  Speaker 1: the covers and I'll never forget it, she had my
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  Speaker 1: little pony blanket that was pulled up so that it
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  Speaker 1: was right at the level of her shoulders, and jack
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  Speaker 1: you know, she had a perfectly circular defect or bullet
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  Speaker 1: hole right between her shoulder blades, and you know, her
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  Speaker 1: little head was still turned to the left she was
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  Speaker 1: layding face down, turned to the left, with her arms
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  Speaker 1: resting beneath her head and sleeping. She had no awareness
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  Speaker 1: that that was coming to her. So for us, when
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  Speaker 1: I see a body like that, in the case of
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  Speaker 1: the thirteen year old girl, I know that she did
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  Speaker 1: not have an awareness. Now in the hallway though in
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  Speaker 1: the hallway it was a blood bath. You had three
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  Speaker 1: siblings that were all laying on top of one another
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  Speaker 1: in the middle of the hallway. There was so much blood. Actually,
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  Speaker 1: and I don't want to be too graphic, but I
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  Speaker 1: actually slipped down at that scene in the blood. And
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  Speaker 1: those individuals, because they were up and fighting for their life,
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: they knew what was going on. But for that little girl,
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: she had no awareness. So as an investigator, that might
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: say to me, for instance, that she was one of
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: the first people were killed. For everybody else, the ones
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: that weren't in bed, they never saw it coming. So
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: you have to be very very careful when you observe
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: individuals at scenes in the position in which they are
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: initially found, and you have to be very careful as
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: to how you document that because again that goes back
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: to this idea of sequencing the deaths in what order,
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: because there are no more living witnesses in certainly like
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: a case like we're discussing. In the cases I've worked
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: many times, there were no living witnesses. All you had
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: to go on was what the bodies were telling us.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: We had to actually in that case, and people have
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: heard the set for years and years. We had to
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: let the dead speak to us in that moment time
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: and tell us their tales through the science that they
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: were living behind in their clues. With me today is
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: Jeff Scott Morgan. He is a forensics professor at Jaxable
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: State University and author of Blood Beneath My Feet. For
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: more on this case and others, go to crime online
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: dot com For crime stories with Nan Straith. I'm Jackie
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: Howard H