Latest / Decision Desk HQ Podcast / Episode 40: What Young People Really Think About Socialism, with Rachel Janfaza of The Up and Up

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Episode 40: What Young People Really Think About Socialism, with Rachel Janfaza of The Up and Up · Decision Desk HQ Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: The way that this conversation is being had,
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: it's made out as though Gen Z is completely flirting with socialism.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I really just feel as though that's missing the mark.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: There's this feeling,
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: among Democrats that the establishment failed and who's offering us
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: that alternative?
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I would assume young people are most inclined to be looking for an alternative.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: To your point, they're looking for an alternative on both sides.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just that they're fed up with the Democratic establishment.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: They're fed up with what they perceive as the Republican establishment, too.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Decision Desk HQ podcast.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Geoffrey Skelley, the chief elections analyst here at DDHQ.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: obviously there's been a lot of attention on democratic socialism,
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: the DSA,
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: candidates who have run and candidates who don't necessarily identify as DSA,
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: but are to the left.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: And we have Francesca Hong just lost on Tuesday.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: We're recording this on Thursday afternoon, August 13th.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Francesca Hong lost in Wisconsin in the gubernatorial primary very narrowly on
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: the democratic side,
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: but the week before Abdul El-Sayed,
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: not a DSA,
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Identifying candidate,
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: but very much to the left,
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: won in Michigan in the Senate primary on the Democratic side.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then, of course, in 2025, Zohran Mamdani won.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: And in the wake of his win,
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: we've seen a number of wins by Progressive or DSA affiliated candidates
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: in US House races.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: So there's been a lot of focus on this.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the sort of one of the contributing factors and one of the things
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: that gets talked about a lot is the contribution of younger voters to this rise.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: We've seen in polls that Younger Americans show more openness to the term socialism
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: or find it more favorable than older Americans.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: We know from polling and from breakdown of election results
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: that younger voters have been more likely to support candidates like Abdul El-Sayed
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: or Francesca Hong.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so we kind of want to maybe get an idea about what's going on here.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: What does socialism mean to younger voters?
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Is it seizing the means of production?
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: Is it something else?
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I have the perfect guest to talk about that today,
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: who argues that the conversation needs to have a little bit more nuance.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: So this is Rachel Janfaza, the founder of The Up and Up, is joining us today.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: And her site,
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: The Up and Up,
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: her organization is a qualitative research media and strategy firm focused
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: on Generation Z, Gen Z,
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: And on her Substack,
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: The Up and Up Substack,
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: she covers how Gen Z is interacting with important political
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: and social developments.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: And she's recently published a couple pieces delving into what she's learned
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: from focus group interviews about what young people think when they hear
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: the term socialism,
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: what they find favorable or unfavorable about it, just what does it mean to them?
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: So with that, Rachel, welcome to the Decision Desk HQ podcast.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Geoffrey, for having me.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: Excited to be here.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, obviously this is a very, as we were saying just before we started, it's a very hot topic.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's one that people are focused on.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess I thought a nice way
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: to start actually would just be just more broadly what you're doing at The Up and Up
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: in terms of looking at Gen Z Americans,
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: Gen Z voters,
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: trying to understand sort of the politics,
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: and then we can get into sort of what you've been learning about.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: How it relates to the term socialism and what young people are thinking about this.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thanks for asking.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: So The Up and Up is a research and media firm,
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: as you mentioned,
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: we hold focus groups with young people and we publish the takeaways.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: We also do work for clients and some of it is client focused,
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: but really why I started The Up and Up was because I was covering young voters
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: in youth political culture.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I felt like there were a lot of storylines about Gen Z
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: that were either overstated or completely misunderstood.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: The Up and Up seeks to add color and texture to a lot of
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: the quantitative data that's out there on Gen Z because you know you'll see
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: a headline and it will have some stat,
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: but it doesn't really ask young people how they're feeling about
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: the central question at hand and so.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: Actually,
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: the socialism question is a good example of that,
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: where I felt like this summer there were a ton of headlines about Gen Z
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: and their relationship to socialism.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so I started asking young people in our focus groups about how they feel about
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: the word, what it means to them, etc.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: Really, we have this community of young people across the country that we tap into
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: and recruit from for our focus groups.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: We have ambassadors who help us find other young people across the country,
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: and a lot of them are between our students or early career professionals.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: High schoolers,
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: college aged community college students,
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: people who are working and living in cities and urban areas all across the country,
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: some rural areas.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so we really just try to understand The full picture
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: of how young people are experiencing the world around them when it comes
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: to politics,
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: but also when it comes to other factors shaping our lives,
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: which leads into our politics too,
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: whether that's AI or workforce preparedness and readiness and experience,
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: dating and relationships, gender and identity, all of these things.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Certainly one of the themes this summer,
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: which also is related to the topic of socialism is economic anxiety and
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: where that's stemming from.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: And really our work just seeks to add texture to the way
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: that young people are experiencing each of these phenomenons.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what a great summary.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: This is why you're going to be the perfect person to talk to about this.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: In one of your pieces where you talked about some of
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: the responses you've gotten regarding sort of what is socialism to you
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: among young people,
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: you cited a poll from the Cato Institute,
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: which is obviously sort of a libertarian free market minded Outlet,
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: and they did a poll asking Americans broadly,
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: there was a pretty large sample size poll,
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: asking them about their attitudes about a whole host of things in line with
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: the 250th anniversary of the country this July.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought it would be fun to just throw these up here,
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: just a couple poll results that they One of them you noted,
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: another one that I saw in there that I thought was also telling,
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: or at least potentially telling, as we can talk about.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: And essentially it was,
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: they start out with,
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: oh, hey, this top line, Gen Z, which they defined as 18 to 29 here.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: I actually wanna ask you,
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: If you have a more formal definition for that,
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: I know that the Pew Research Center usually does sort of 1997 on,
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: but do we have an end year now?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: Gen Z rates socialism above capitalism in terms of the share who had a favorable opinion of it.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: 53%, 18 to 29 year olds said they had a favorable opinion of socialism.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: 45% said they had a favorable opinion of capitalism.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously you could respond favorably to either.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't an either,
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: it wasn't a,
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: you couldn't say just that you liked one more than the other,
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: which is,
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: and 38% said they had a favorable attitude toward communism,
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: but then obviously in comparison to Older age groups,
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: the number for capitalism tended to be a little higher for older groups and
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: then definitely lower in terms of favorability towards socialism
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: and definitely communism.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: So this is sort of like an initial stat that says something about at least
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: the term socialism and what People sort of initially think when they think of it
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: and how they think about it.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then on top of that,
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: we had a question that they asked about,
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: How likely or more likely are to vote for somebody who identifies as
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: a democratic socialist?
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously we've had a number of house candidates in particular,
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: US house candidates who have won some,
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: some democratic primaries who,
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  SPEAKER_00: who readily identify as,
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: or even are members of either the national or their local DSA chapter.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: And, and Democrats were somewhat more likely 61%,
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: but then you also had younger people,
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: 51% being the likeliest in terms of age group to say that they were more likely
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: to vote.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: For someone who identified that way.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then strong liberals and Harris voters sort of being other high points among groups.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: But in terms of age,
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: you can see why,
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: to your point,
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: that some of these top line poll results can lead into maybe some pretty easy
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: or too simplistic commentary about young voters' attitudes towards socialism.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess what that brings me to was seeing that What are you actually sort
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: of hearing in some of these focus group conversations?
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: And we can delve into all kinds of things with that.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: So the piece that you referenced where I cited this Cato Institute poll,
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: I published on July 28th, and I've done a few other focus groups since then.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: And in the piece initially I had written that I had yet to find
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: a young person organically in my focus groups who identified as
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: a democratic socialist.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's now changed since I wrote that piece.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I did a focus group on.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: It was either Monday or Tuesday of this week.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: I can't quite remember.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: I have a one-year-old now.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: I can't keep track of any time.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's bad.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: So no worries.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: And we did have a young woman who told me she was a socialist and also just
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: the conversation was a bit more friendly to socialism.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: But I think what I'm realizing is that the way that this conversation is being had
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: in the mainstream media and just sort of the political ecosystem more broadly is
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: that And it's made out as though Gen Z is completely flirting with socialism.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I really just feel as though that's missing the mark because
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: while some young people certainly are attracted to democratic socialists
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: or just straight up socialism, it's not the full picture.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think just like in 2024,
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: when we had a whole conversation that really missed the mark on the fact that a lot
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: of young people were really in favor of President Donald Trump.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: We are kind of doing that same thing here.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: And what this says about the way young people are sensationalized as a monolith,
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: when in reality,
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: just like every generation,
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: there's a range of opinion amongst Gen Z and they're not so different
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: from older voters than they're made out to be.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so when it does come to socialism,
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think there is an appreciation for some of the policies
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: that These democratic socialist candidates have been talking about in a bold
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: and blunt way.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: And we are hearing an appreciation from young people across the political spectrum
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: for political leaders who are going to address the big issues that young people feel
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: the country is facing with bold policies.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: The fact that they're drawn towards leaders who are saying,
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to change things is not surprising.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: And when Mayor Zohran Mamdani was elected here in New York City,
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: where I live,
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: I kept making the point that it felt like his rise looked
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: a lot like President Trump's because he talked about a problem,
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: which was the cost of living.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: He addressed it head on.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: He did not skirt around the corners.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: He did not say, let me just offer a solution without talking about the problem.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: He actually talked about the problem and then said, here's what I'm going to do to fix it.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: And even if the ideas for how he was going to fix it seems totally outlandish,
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: he gave people something to latch onto that they wanted to hear.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I think Trump did a similar strategy when he was running in 2024.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway,
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: All of that is to say that the conversation about young people
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: and socialism is pretty nuanced.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: There seems to be at the macro level,
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: the social policies that were a part of many Democratic candidates' campaigns in
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: the 2020 primary cycle that were seen as just sort
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: of traditional Umbrella social welfare ideas,
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: whether that was healthcare,
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: healthcare for all in some cases,
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: help with higher education and the cost of affording higher education,
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: paid family leave,
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: early childcare,
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: sort of these social support systems,
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: those are now being thought of as socialist policies.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I think there's been a Change in the way that from a voter perspective,
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: those types of policies are perceived from the 2020 primary to now in 2026 and ahead
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: of the midterm elections.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think part of why young people are latching on to socialism is because
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: when they think about socialism, they're thinking of those social policies.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: We can talk more about what young people think socialism means or what it means to them.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: But big picture, I think that is where this flirtation is coming from.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: you had a fun little graphic that I'm pulling up here where you sort of hit on some
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: of the things that it seems like these were areas that were popping up
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: when people were talking about Sort of what they,
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: maybe what they associated it with,
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: or the sort of social programs you're talking about,
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: more affordable housing,
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: that touches on your point at the start about economic anxiety and cost of living,
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: but things like paid family leave,
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: raising the minimum wage,
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: meeting the needs of people,
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: higher taxes on the wealthy, and expanding access to healthcare.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: these are all things that,
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: at least from your article you noted,
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: were popping up as things that people were associating with that term, which...
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think for some people who are a little older,
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: that would not automatically be the association.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: No, no.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why I think there's been a misalignment of what it means to be,
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: of what socialism means.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, these are just like big social policies, umbrella policies.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I think things that were a part of the infrastructure bill
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: that President Biden was trying to pass in I guess 2021 that just kind
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: of got slashed by the wayside and then we're not a part of the conversation for
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: a few years.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of what I think also gets missed a lot of times is that A lot
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: of young voters, this is their first time ever voting.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so they weren't a part of that conversation.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: They weren't a part of the political conversation last cycle.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so these feel like new ideas and the people who are presenting them
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: in many cases are DSA candidates.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: But there's not necessarily an appreciation for the DSA more broadly.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: I will quote a 21 year old from New York who told me recently
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: that she doesn't believe that DSA candidates popularity is about ideology,
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: but more about the way they're tackling economic issues.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it goes back to the broader economic anxiety that so many young people are facing right now.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: And directly, she said, I don't think it's necessarily a marker of massive ideological shift.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's more so just the economic populist element of it and just economic concerns.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like that's the only avenue which those things are actually being addressed.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think both parties, establishments are just ignoring those concerns, she said.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think something that's really important there is the reference to
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: the establishment,
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: because a lot of young people feel like the establishment just isn't listening.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: Doesn't actually understand the problems that everyday Americans are facing today.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: And the alternative to the establishment on the Democratic side of
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: the aisle right now,
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: which is where many of these young people fall,
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: is DSA or candidates who lean that way.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you mentioned Abdul El-Sayed.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: And while he's not technically a Democratic socialist,
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: he talks in a way that really mimics a lot of what Mamdani says, etc.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: So it's sort of in the absence of a clear...
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Vision that the establishment or that more sort of moderate candidates stand for is
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: where the gap is being filled by the DSA candidates.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: And again,
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: we had some focus group participants earlier this summer who are on the left,
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: who actually spoke pretty openly against socialism and against DSA.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: We had a young man from Arizona tell us that part of his Frustration with the DSA
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: where he lives is that it can be kind of toxic,
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: he said,
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: where he felt like it's very divisive and that it's creating more polarization
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: in his community than uniting and bringing people together.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: And ironically, we are hearing young people saying that they're looking for a uniter right now.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's part of why James Talarico's name keeps coming up in focus groups
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: because people say they think he can bridge divides in Texas.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: So there is really an appetite for that or even someone like a Jon Ossoff in Georgia.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: But then again,
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: you hear someone like Zohran Mamdani and his name comes up first
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: in every single focus group as a politician who's doing a good job right now
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: because he's talking about things in a way and ideating and suggesting a vision
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: for what the future could look like that sounds pretty good to young people
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: who feel like everything is broken.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: To your point about the establishment,
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that does seem to be a thing if we just thinking electorally about
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: I've been asked many times,
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: why are candidates on the left,
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: either DSA or DSA adjacent, progressive candidates having success?
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, well,
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: it seems like,
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: especially in the aftermath of the 2024 election,
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: any voter who is sort of left-leaning,
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: young or old,
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: is a bit more skeptical of what the Democratic establishment has to say because
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: the Democratic establishment was backing Joe Biden until Joe Biden dropped out.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: And Kamala Harris ended up losing in the presidential election
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: and Donald Trump came back,
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: which For Democrats and people who lean to the left was like, what a failure.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: Trump returned and we obviously know that looking at the forces that were at work in
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: the 2024 election,
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: that economic dissatisfaction definitely played a large role in Trump being able
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: to win a second non-consecutive term.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: Also concerns about immigration,
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: but I think particularly the economic stuff as you mentioned there.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: And just knowing that there's this feeling I think among Democrats that
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: The establishment failed, and who's offering us that alternative?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: And to your point,
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: I would assume young people are most inclined to be looking for an alternative.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so is it a shock that they're looking to these candidates even more than some other voters?
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think, and to your point, they're looking for an alternative on both sides.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just that they're fed up with the Democratic establishment.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: They're fed up with what they perceive as the Republican establishment,
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: too, which to them is MAGA because that is all that they've known.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: Gen Z has only known a Republican Party dominated by President Trump.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's a fascinating wrinkle.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: And actually,
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: maybe this leads to a good follow-up question,
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: which is sort of,
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: I know in your focus groups,
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: it may depend on what you're trying to focus on,
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: but I was curious if some of these focus groups where you're asking by the left,
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: was it just generally left-leaning people in the focus group?
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because I know,
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: depending on the question,
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: that might influence your recruitment process for what you're trying to do.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, totally.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: So this past week,
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: we had a session where for the first time we had someone full out say they were
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: a socialist.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then we also had a conservative young man on that same session.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a mixed bag of participants.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: And we had some more moderate young people on there too.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: The reality is that most young people are independent.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: 56% of Gen Z is independent, according to Gallup research from earlier this year.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: But we try to have a range.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes we end up with a group that is all left-leaning.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes we purposely recruit and have a group that's all right-leaning, but there's a mix.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: And in this session earlier this week,
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: we had this young man who was very vocal about his disdain for socialism.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it was really interesting to see sort of the respect that they had
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: for each other,
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: the folks on the call,
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: where they were very clearly articulating where they were coming to things from
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: and why they viewed things the way that they did.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: But they didn't really want to step on each other's toes of saying like, you're wrong.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: I completely disagree with you.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: So they were like, I see where you're coming from.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: But and that was an interesting dynamic to have, too.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know,
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: What I had been sort of harping on for the beginning of the summer up
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: until really this week is this idea that we kept doing these focus groups
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: and asking,
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: does anyone consider themselves to be a socialist or a democratic socialist?
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: And no one would raise their hand.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then I would ask, you know, do you feel like there's a stigma around it?
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: Is that,
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: like you're saying that you admire these candidates,
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: that you like their policies, but you don't want to go as far to call yourself one.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: And they said, yeah, I just feel like I don't fully agree with everything that they stand for.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not all the way there.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like labels in general.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so going back to the fact that 56% of Gen Z considers themselves
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: to be independent, there's a real pushback from labels amongst Gen Z.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: This is true across gender, across relationships, and certainly in politics.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of people don't want to box themselves in and don't want to deal with
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: the associations that come with a specific label.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so that is part of the conversation here about how they're relating to socialism, too.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think a lot of people don't actually know what the word means
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: and they feel like they they maybe learned about it in history class or they read
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: a book or they've heard their parents talk about it.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: We had a young man from Miami who was in a session earlier this summer
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: who was talking about the associations that the Latino community has with socialism
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: and how why it's seen as sort of like the devil in Areas he grew up in
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: and why that's why he sort of is,
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: even if he likes some of the policies, he's very cognizant of that.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a lot of conflation, I think, to communism.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: And we've had young people tell us that they're aware of that,
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: but that they really see it as two different things.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: We've also had young people tell us they see a difference between pure socialism
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: and democratic socialism,
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: and that democratic socialism looks more like those policies that you have up on
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: the screen right now.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then we've had some young people tell us that,
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: there are countries,
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: Scandinavian countries that are Doing socialism well and that in Europe it seems
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: to be currently working in some cases.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then we've had others say, look back at history, it never works.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: So there really is a range of perspective and also not a clear consensus
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: on what socialism and or democratic socialism means.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if anyone can really define the difference between socialism
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: and democratic socialism.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and this brings me,
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: you pointed out sort of the tendency to wanna avoid labels or at least be skeptical
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: of labels.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess this maybe just leads me to a more general question about,
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: and you've gotten at it a little bit,
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: but I was curious if you had anybody who was sort of hitting
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: on ideology more specifically when it comes to a question like this,
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: or is it more muddled in the sense of it's sort of a policy by policy idea
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: And this may again get sort of wrapped up in wanting
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: to avoid necessarily identifying with a label 100% kind of thing.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, so up on the screen right now in the middle, it says meeting the needs of the people.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that when it comes to ideology, part of the –
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: What young people think socialism really is, is exactly that, meeting the needs of the people.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that the government is responsible,
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: that the state-sponsored systems are responsible to meet the needs of the people.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: And that,
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: you'll hear things like healthcare is a human right,
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: and so is housing,
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: and that,
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: that people should have everything that they need and that
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: the state should be required to Deliver it.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a real appetite for that.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that is in part because we know that Gen Z is so distrusting
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: of institutions and of government that part of the reason why they might be
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: so distrusting is because if that's what they think that the systems should be doing
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: and the systems aren't doing that, they're not going to trust the systems.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's really interesting.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because we know that institutional,
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: it's almost as if it's from the other side of that,
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: where we talk about trusting government and trusting institutions is so low.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: And for maybe some older people,
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: it's because they feel like the institutions weren't living up
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: to what they were supposed to be doing or failed.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like,
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: in the case of some younger people,
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: it may be like, well, the institutions have never worked in my lifetime.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so They could be better.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so here's what maybe we should be doing.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's like an interesting kind of coming at it from the other side.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: I guess sort of thinking about that,
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: maybe you pointed out That a lot of this can connect back to larger things
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: that are going on,
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: particularly for young people and what changes that are happening and things like
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: the economy.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: I was curious if there were some things that stood out.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned AI,
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: but things that people would cite as concerns or particular worries that
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: then connect to perhaps some of the things that they would view socialism
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: or democratic socialism standing for or at least somewhat connected to in terms
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: of meeting the needs of the people.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: So when it comes to the concerns that young people currently have,
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: almost all of them have to do with economic anxiety of some sort.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: We've heard plenty of young people this summer tell us
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: that they're using student loan repayments to actually finance things
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: in their lives like rent or textbooks.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: We've heard students who are juggling multiple jobs,
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: young people who are juggling multiple jobs,
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: heard from a teacher who has a side hustle.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so they feel like they're not making the income that they need
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: to afford their life,
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: either in a full-time job capacity or while they're a student in order
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: to actually afford everything that comes along with tuition.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: We had one young woman tell us that she's paying for rent for her mom.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: On top of her own personal finances.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: And just this broader sense that for a lot of young people who don't yet have a job,
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: they're not confident that their job,
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: that they'll be able to get a job,
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: but that that job will actually be able to pay for their life.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: So there's just so many different angles at which this is coming from.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then the last thing I'll say, too,
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: is that we hear a lot of young people reference the big, beautiful bill by name.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason being is that it changed their healthcare and
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: the healthcare premiums went up and that this is part
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: of why healthcare has become such a central issue in the 2026 midterm elections.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I think healthcare has been an underrated priority issue for Gen Z for quite some time.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: Is part of the larger conversation about young people's cost of living.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then, of course, housing, rent.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's completely unaffordable.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: People know that they're not going to be able to buy a home and that they're going
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: to be spent,
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: they're going to be stuck in this cycle of not being able to afford rent.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: And when you look at the policies that they're saying
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: that they would appreciate right now,
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: and it is things like affordable housing or paid family leave or raising
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: the minimum wage,
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: expanding access to health care and higher taxes on wealthy individuals
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: or corporations,
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: you can see why,
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: given the economic situation that they're in and the financial stressors
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: that they're feeling,
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: why those would be policies that they are drawn towards right now.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's, again, it's fascinating.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: It makes sense.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it actually even reflects a little bit,
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: maybe it's not so much people identifying with terms like socialism or whatnot,
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: but obviously many of these economic concerns are felt perhaps more acutely
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: by younger people, but obviously at a moment when there's economic anxiety broadly.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: Across many parts of the population.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think some of those concerns are felt across all age groups.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's like what I was
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: saying before.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: Younger voters aren't so different from older voters.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: They might get their news in a different way or be more attracted to candidates
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: who talk more openly and authentically and don't have sort of like
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: a politician's glaze over them.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: But like, it's the same issues.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's, yeah, that's worth remembering.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: You've talked about Sort of variations within Gen Z in the past.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I was curious if you were running into,
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: when it comes to topics like sort of The left,
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: Democrat Socialism,
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: Socialism,
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: even candidates that people mentioned that are sort of on the left of the spectrum.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was curious if you were running into any distinctions between someone who, say,
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: is 19 and in college or working or something,
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: who only graduated high school recently,
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: or someone who's like on the older end of Gen Z.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think you called it Gen Z 1, Gen Z 2 at some point.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: So Gen Z 1.0, I say,
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: is anyone who graduated high school before the start of the COVID-19 pandemic.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: And Gen Z 2.0 is anyone who was still in high school and younger at the time.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason why I chose that cutoff was because of sort of just the relationship
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: to trust and authority.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think education,
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: the K-12 system was really treating young people as guinea pigs during the pandemic.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: And there were a lot of repercussions of that.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: But then at the same time,
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: there's very different technologies that have shaped Gen Z 1.0
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: and Gen Z 2.0's upbringing.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm on the oldest cusp of Gen Z. I was born in 1997.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: For all of my high school and most of my college experience, TikTok was not a thing.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: So short form video was basically not a thing.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: And also we certainly didn't have AI.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then you look at Gen Z 2.0 and TikTok has been the cultural currency as long
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: as they can remember.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: Short form video is everything.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's affected their attention spans and the type of language and lingo
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: and even just culture that resonates with them.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then also now they're growing up in an AI dominated world and
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: that has had ramifications in their education and also in their Relationship
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: to work.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so there are just really different life experiences.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: And when it comes to the politics,
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: initially,
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: I started seeing this divide manifest in that younger Gen Z was
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: a bit more conservative or a bit more open to sort of
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: anti-establishment candidates
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: and policies.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: Party in office was a Democratic Party and sort of push back against that.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: The counterculture was to be MAGA.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: Now, here we are, and that's no longer the case.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it's been,
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think, I mean,
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: there's a lot of things that Trump has done that have pissed a lot
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: of young people off,
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: but it's also,
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: if he had done everything right,
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: it still would have been really hard to retain that cultural cachet Which if
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: the default is being anti-authority and the authority is him,
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: then people are automatically going to be against him.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that there's a few different dynamics at play.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: When it comes to what we're seeing between Gen Z 1.0 and Gen Z 2.0 in terms of
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: the conversation around socialism,
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think the label situation,
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think that Gen Z 2.0 is still less label oriented than Gen Z 1.0.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: Perhaps that's because of the anti-establishment ethos or the anti-authority
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: and just being sort of contrarian.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: Gen Z 2.0 is a bit more contrarian and also just a bit more
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: Fluid in that they don't like to be boxed in and that could also be age.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, maybe it's that Gen Z 2.0 is younger and so their opinions aren't as fully formed yet.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas Gen Z 1.0 has matured a bit and their opinions are a bit more fleshed out.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: And we don't quite know that yet.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: But what I will say we do know is that right now Gen Z 2.0 is very swingy
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: and they are the ones dealing with this anxiety of of graduating from high school
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: into a world that is unknown.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: And Gen Z 1.0,
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: things looked a little bit, a little bit more clear when they graduated high school.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, for some, I mean, again,
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: if that cut off for Gen Z 1.0 was graduated high school before the start of
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: the pandemic, things looked a lot more clear then than they have any year since.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think in the long run,
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: history is an understanding of social movements and society as a whole.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: A lot will be BC and AC before COVID and after COVID.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: And why wouldn't that be the case for the generation that was sort of in its youth through that?
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: I
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: have a quote I copied here from one of your conversations or one of your focus groups.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it would have been presumably someone who was in Gen Z 2.0
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: because it was someone who was 19.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: And they said, they're not asking for too much by wanting certain social services.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: So like healthcare, tuition support, that sort of thing.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so I guess getting back to sort of the conversation surrounding socialism,
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't have to necessarily be with the Gen Z 1.0 versus 2.0.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: But I guess I'm just still trying to elucidate to folks sort of the difference
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: between understanding this as an ideology of,
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: with a history dating back to Marx or something,
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: or people looking at sort of their everyday problems and then making an association
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: between what people are taught,
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: what candidates who espouse,
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: who identify in this way,
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: espouse,
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: and then that Being how they end up forming what they view this particular word
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: to mean.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know,
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: we've been asking all summer,
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: what are you looking for in a political candidate right now?
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: And in that piece you mentioned where I quoted someone as,
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: like I call it the new table stakes for young voters is really just the fact
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: that young voters think they're not asking for too much
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: by demanding social services.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's not necessarily new.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: But what we're hearing a lot of in terms of what they're looking for
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: in candidates is someone who understands the needs of basic people,
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: who is of the people,
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: who has that lived experience,
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: quote unquote,
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: personal experience going through some of the hardships that the young people
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: that we've spoken to say that they faced.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: Again, we hear this on both sides of the political spectrum.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: This is not isolated to the left.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: They also want a candidate who is advocating for what's possible.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that's a big part of this, too,
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: is like when they see when they hear socialism,
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: they're thinking at least how they've articulated it.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: They're thinking socialism means that the government takes care of the needs of
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: the person or the people,
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: and they want candidates who are going to take care of the needs of the people and
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: who provide a vision of what that could look like.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know,
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: for someone like Zohran Mamdani,
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: that might look like proposing free buses or a rent freeze.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: And when we ask,
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: we've asked,
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: can you name policies that these candidates have run on or have implemented?
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: And those two policies come up a lot.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: The rent freeze in particular.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: Also subsidies for groceries comes up.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: Again, people listening to this might be saying that's impossible.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: These are not practical solutions.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: This is not This is not possible.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: And yet that's not that doesn't really matter to young people who are trying
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: to envision a world that is just anything that looks better than it does now
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: in their eyes.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I also sometimes get the pushback
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: of like young people don't have it any different than other generations
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: of young people had it.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I hear that and that's all,
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: that might be true,
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: but this is still what young people are saying
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: and it's impacting how they're voting.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: So whether or not it's what, you know, do they have it worse off than prior generations?
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: That could be debated,
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: but this is how they're feeling and they're a voting age
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: and they're making their voices heard through their vote.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, maybe that's a good place to sort of close out on is you mentioned it,
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: that young people and understandably that this to your point,
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think that would say they're not necessarily new and that they are not.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: They don't always have as well-formed political opinions
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: because they're just really getting started with adulthood and it's natural
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: to not be as certain in your views or to have those views change more often
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: as you're exposed to new things or go through certain life experiences
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: and your views shift.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot happens in those early years, 18 on.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: But I was curious sort of,
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: because you mentioned that younger voters are swinging
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: and obviously we're looking ahead to the 2026 midterm elections.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then even of course,
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: 2028, when we think about the presidential, who would succeed, President Trump.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess I was just curious for any sort of broader takeaways you had about,
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: besides them being swingy,
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: What might stick out to you from things you've heard from young people,
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: left or right?
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, part of this too is that,
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: I was just thinking of this as you were talking about the swinginess and the fact
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: that opinions might not be fully formed.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: One thing we're really hearing an appetite for is that they want that
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: to be reflected amongst politicians.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: So they understand that people's opinions change.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: And many of the young people that have been in our focus group,
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: some of whom we've been sort of coming back to since 2024 or even 2020,
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: They have shared that their opinions have changed over time,
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: and they are aware that politicians also probably have opinions that have changed
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: over time,
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: and they want the politicians to be honest and upfront about that and say,
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: hey, I said this thing before, but I actually feel differently about it now.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: And just be honest about that and be upfront about that.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's okay to change your point of view or perspective or to have worked on a policy
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: that didn't work out and say, that didn't work.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: Let's try something different.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: So that's certainly been something we're hearing and
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: that I think people should be paying attention to who want to win over young people.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: The other piece of this, too,
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: is that I've talked about how some of these big social policies are coded right now
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: as socialist, but they don't have to be.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think that there's really...
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: Young people are, for the most part, not saying, hi, I'm a socialist.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: They're saying, I am interested in these policies.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so there are ways that other candidates across
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: the ideological spectrum could be talking about this type of intervention and maybe
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: in a way that feels more authentic to them that can get at the concern
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: that young people have when it comes to that economic anxiety,
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: which really is at the root of this.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, earlier you said that there is a tendency to try to treat young people as a monolith.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I think actually one of the main problems without sort
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: of not acknowledging nuance and that Large groups of people have different opinions.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's a tendency to treat all kinds of groups,
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: different racial groups,
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: different ethnic groups,
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: different age groups,
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: different what have you, different people from a certain place as a monolith.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: And really there's just actually a ton of variety.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: People are complicated and have lots of different opinions.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: And why would young people be different, right?
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: Rachel, this has been really great.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate you adding some more granularity and understanding
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: to this topic that's getting just a lot of attention,
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: obviously because of the candidates who are running,
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: but also the messages that are coming out and how people are responding.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: And we do see young people,
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: at least on the left,
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: voting more for these candidates than some of
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: the more establishment Democratic type candidates.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: That could indicate a few different things, as you've pointed out here.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: So before we go, though,
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to give you a chance to,
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: if there's anything you wanted,
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: where people can find your work and that sort of thing.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: You can find the newsletter at theupandup.us and the.upandup on Instagram and also
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: at Rachel Janfaza across all social media platforms.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: So hope you'll subscribe to the newsletter and stay tuned for our future focus groups.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_01: But thanks, Geoffrey, so much for having me on.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: This has been fun.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, again,
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: this is Rachel Janfaza,
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: who runs The Up and Up,
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: where she does all kinds of research and interactions,
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: understanding what's going on with young people.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: And you can find her Substack, theupandup.us, spelled out.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: And there's lots of good stuff on there.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I highly recommend you check it out and subscribe.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Geoffrey Skelley, the Chief Elections Analyst here at Decision Desk HQ.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I hope you all found this conversation as interesting as I did.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I also want to thank quickly Eric Cunningham and Steven Silver for their help
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: with this episode, as with all the episodes we have here at the DDHQ podcast.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: So again, Rachel, thank you so much for your time.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Geoffrey.