Latest / The HighDive / Ep. 5 | The Hardest Prayer to Pray

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Ep. 5 | The Hardest Prayer to Pray · The HighDive

0:09
SPEAKER_01: Well, hello and welcome back to the High Dive Podcast.
0:14
SPEAKER_01: We are so grateful that you were here.
0:16
SPEAKER_01: Dr.
0:16
SPEAKER_01: Sam, delighted that you are here with us today.
0:19
SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Dr.
0:19
SPEAKER_01: Ricky, for having me on the show.
0:21
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
0:22
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I want I do want to take some time uh maybe to introduce and have folks share a little bit about you in just a minute.
0:30
SPEAKER_01: But for those of you that are joining us, maybe for the first time you've searched the worldwide web and you have found us online or on your podcast, uh this is the High Dive Podcast.
0:42
SPEAKER_01: Our target audience are the people at Calvary Baptist Church.
0:45
SPEAKER_01: But Dr.
0:46
SPEAKER_01: Sam, we're we're welcome.
0:48
SPEAKER_01: Anybody who finds this information, we're certainly hope that you're blessed and encouraged by it.
0:53
SPEAKER_01: So look in the show notes.
0:55
SPEAKER_01: You can find a link to our church website.
0:57
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1:06
SPEAKER_01: We would love to help you connect with the church in your community where you live, work, learn, and play.
1:11
SPEAKER_01: But you're certainly blessed.
1:13
SPEAKER_01: And I hope you're encouraged by what you hear today as we're all pursuing Jesus together.
1:18
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1:27
SPEAKER_01: So um, Dr.
1:29
SPEAKER_01: Sam, again, we've been friends for a long, long time.
1:32
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I think I was sharing with you ahead of time kind of what we were.
1:36
SPEAKER_01: I I would say just if we were to outline our conversation today, I would love to spend some time just learning more about you, what Hope Givers is, so that people understand the ministry and the vision of Hope Givers, but also the relationship that Calvary and Hope Givers have and had had for a long time.
1:53
SPEAKER_01: So I want to talk about that.
1:55
SPEAKER_01: And then I would love to just maybe pick your brain and learn from your personal walk with Jesus, uh, specifically as relates to your habits of prayer or how the Lord stretched you through your prayers.
2:09
SPEAKER_01: And we'll talk more about that maybe in the second half.
2:11
SPEAKER_01: But maybe let's just start.
2:13
SPEAKER_01: Tell us who you are and what you do, and what is Hope Givers and all that stuff.
2:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:19
SPEAKER_00: Again, it's a joy to be with you, Dr.
2:21
SPEAKER_00: Ricky.
2:22
SPEAKER_00: And thanks for having me on the show.
2:23
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
2:24
SPEAKER_00: Uh, Minister of Hope Givers is basically based out of New U India.
2:29
SPEAKER_00: The reason I was saying new is New Delhi is when you think that's where we land when you go to India.
2:35
SPEAKER_00: Uh so the Minister of Hopekivers started with a man named M.A.
2:39
SPEAKER_00: Thomas.
2:40
SPEAKER_00: And uh when he was a Bible college student in 1959, he had to make a decision whether to stay on campus or go home.
2:49
SPEAKER_00: So to take a modular, he had to have$4.
2:54
SPEAKER_00: So he didn't have the$4.
2:56
SPEAKER_00: So in order to go home, it was a 40 cents round trip on a bus.
3:02
SPEAKER_00: So guess what?
3:03
SPEAKER_00: He didn't have the 40 cents.
3:05
SPEAKER_00: So he decided to walk home 500 miles.
3:09
SPEAKER_01: What in the world?
3:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
3:10
SPEAKER_00: So then uh two of his friends heard about that walk.
3:14
SPEAKER_00: He says, we're gonna go too, because they didn't have money either.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: So three of them walked, every one of them had a scripture verse on their neck, and they would walk 500 miles.
3:25
SPEAKER_00: And uh the one that dad had was, if you die today, where will you spend your eternity?
3:31
SPEAKER_00: And the other one was in Malayalam and the other one was in Tamil, different languages.
3:37
SPEAKER_00: So I love the way he said to me, he said, Sam, on Oprah, they tell you you walk, you lose weight.
3:43
SPEAKER_00: He says, We walked 53 days and gained 14 pounds.
3:48
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
3:48
SPEAKER_00: Because people along the way welcomed them, small Christian homes, welcomed them and made delicious meals which they never had.
3:57
SPEAKER_00: So they just kept eating, kept walking, kept eating.
4:00
SPEAKER_00: But every day somebody would come to know Christ and they would baptize the believer the next day.
4:06
SPEAKER_00: Keep walking, keep walking.
4:07
SPEAKER_00: As a result of their walk, over 12 churches were established.
4:11
unknown: Wow.
4:12
SPEAKER_00: So he came back to the Bible college.
4:14
SPEAKER_00: And this is where I believe what a great example of the sovereignty of God.
4:18
SPEAKER_00: That he is studying in a Bible college in southern India.
4:22
SPEAKER_00: And by the way, the reason we get our name Thomas, because the Apostle Thomas was sent to India and he was martyred in India.
4:30
SPEAKER_00: So majority of the Christian leaders that come from southern India, they have the name Thomas to identify with the apostle.
4:37
SPEAKER_01: And is that because that southern part of India is primarily where the Apostle Thomas worked?
4:43
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
4:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he worked in Kerala, he worked in Madras, and he worked some in Andhra Pradesh.
4:48
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
4:49
SPEAKER_00: So upon his graduation in 1960, of all the people in the world, God would choose the commencement speaker, and his name was Dr.
5:00
SPEAKER_00: Bill Bright.
5:02
SPEAKER_00: Founder chairman of Campus Cruciate for Christ.
5:06
SPEAKER_00: So after the commencement service, he asked the president of the Bible college, his name was Dr.
5:14
SPEAKER_00: Paul Gupta.
5:15
SPEAKER_00: He said, Um, do you know any young man that I can hire and uh encourage him to be the national director for Campus Cruciate?
5:24
SPEAKER_00: And Dr.
5:24
SPEAKER_00: Gupta says, Yes, there's a guy named M.A.
5:27
SPEAKER_00: Thomas, and you need to meet him.
5:29
SPEAKER_00: He is a soul winner, uh, walked 500 miles, shared the gospel every day, and he distributes the most Bible to the street people in our Bible college, and I think you should consider him.
5:42
SPEAKER_00: So they called him, and uh, my father said, Dr.
5:45
SPEAKER_00: Bill Bright, I love the offer because he was giving him$300 a month.
5:50
SPEAKER_00: He said, I love the offer, but I've given my life to serve the Lord in northern India, where there's only one Christian for every 10,000 people.
5:58
SPEAKER_00: So Bill Bright looked at him and he says, Are you planning to walk the 1,500 miles?
6:04
SPEAKER_00: My father says, Yes, unless the Lord provides the way.
6:08
SPEAKER_00: So then he said, Who you have going with you?
6:11
SPEAKER_00: So, of course, by then dad was married, and mother Amini Thomas, and then the same two men that walked with him to Kerala, they decided to go walking with him to 1,500 miles.
6:23
SPEAKER_00: And uh Bill Wright met all four of them.
6:25
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
6:26
SPEAKER_00: And he said, uh, what if uh you die?
6:32
SPEAKER_00: What happens?
6:33
SPEAKER_00: My father says, Well, if I die, Philip will carry the work.
6:36
SPEAKER_00: He said, What if Philip dies?
6:38
SPEAKER_00: He said, John will carry the work.
6:40
SPEAKER_00: There were the three two other men, Philip and John.
6:43
SPEAKER_00: So then he looked at my mother.
6:46
SPEAKER_00: He says, What if all three men died?
6:49
SPEAKER_00: What would you do?
6:50
SPEAKER_00: She said, if I can reach somehow the city of Kota and give one gospel tract, our mission will be accomplished.
7:00
SPEAKER_00: So Dr.
7:01
SPEAKER_00: Billbright was moved by that.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: He says, I'm not going to make you guys walk, even though you don't want to be the national director.
7:08
SPEAKER_00: He says, I'm going to pay you a train fare.
7:11
SPEAKER_00: He prayed the train fare for all four of them.
7:14
SPEAKER_00: They arrived in the city of Coda, where Dr.
7:16
SPEAKER_00: Ricky, you've been, and many others have been from Calvary.
7:19
SPEAKER_00: Upon his arrival, they told him, Doc Thomas, if you don't leave this place, we'll kill you.
7:24
SPEAKER_00: I love the way Dad used to say.
7:26
SPEAKER_00: He says, Sam, after that threat, me and your mother went to bed with prayer.
7:33
SPEAKER_00: Next morning, we thought we would be in heaven.
7:36
SPEAKER_00: We were not in heaven.
7:37
SPEAKER_00: We were still in Coda.
7:38
SPEAKER_00: So he says, We went out preaching.
7:41
SPEAKER_00: They finally beat him, broke his skull, put him in prison.
7:46
SPEAKER_00: With a broken skull, eight inmates while he was in prison.
7:52
SPEAKER_00: God saved them.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: Came out, started his church, and the Lord has blessed that church today.
8:00
SPEAKER_00: From that one beginning in 1960, the Lord has blessed the Minister of Hope Givers.
8:05
SPEAKER_00: Of course, to God be all the glory.
8:07
SPEAKER_00: And the 28 men who have died, martyred in this ministry, I believe they are the reasons today Hope Giver celebrates 119,073 churches.
8:19
SPEAKER_00: Mind-boggling.
8:20
SPEAKER_00: But you know what though, Dr.
8:21
SPEAKER_00: Ricky?
8:22
SPEAKER_00: A lot of people say when they hear that number, oh, Sam Thomas, he's just blowing smoke.
8:26
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm not that kind of an Indian.
8:28
SPEAKER_00: We don't send smoke signals.
8:31
SPEAKER_00: We are the ones with the dot, not the feather.
8:34
SPEAKER_00: So anyway, with that said, where did Hope Givers in Calvary come in partnership?
8:42
SPEAKER_00: So there was a guy named Dr.
8:44
SPEAKER_00: Bob Beatty.
8:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:46
SPEAKER_00: His son was an ophthalmologist, eye surgeon, uh, Steve Beatty.
8:50
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
8:51
SPEAKER_00: So Bob first came, he heard about us in Africa.
8:55
SPEAKER_00: He came to uh India and he says, There's a gentleman named Dr.
8:59
SPEAKER_00: Don Will Hyde, you gotta meet him.
9:02
SPEAKER_00: So then we never met Dr.
9:04
SPEAKER_00: Don.
9:04
SPEAKER_00: But Dr.
9:05
SPEAKER_00: Don somehow knew dad from a friend named uh uh Ron Herod.
9:12
SPEAKER_00: Oh yes.
9:13
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
9:14
SPEAKER_00: Brother Don.
9:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, King Harrod.
9:16
SPEAKER_01: Yes, brother Don affectionately calls him King out of Birmingham.
9:20
SPEAKER_00: So Ron Harrod knew dad, Bob Beatty knew dad, and then of course, as Ron knew Dr.
9:26
SPEAKER_00: Don, there was some kind of a mutual uh like somebody knew someone.
9:32
SPEAKER_00: So finally, we had the privilege of coming and meeting Don.
9:36
SPEAKER_00: And Don said, Um, man, I love your ministry.
9:39
SPEAKER_00: And then we invited him to a board meeting in Phoenix, Arizona.
9:44
SPEAKER_00: And of course, prior to that, Hope Giver's been in Columbia, South Carolina.
9:49
SPEAKER_00: We've been in Forest, Virginia, we have been in Phoenix, we have been in Los Angeles, uh, we have been in Murfreesboro.
9:57
SPEAKER_00: So Don looked at this.
9:59
SPEAKER_00: He says, Man, I don't like this trend.
10:02
SPEAKER_00: Uh, we don't need to see you guys keep moving.
10:06
SPEAKER_00: There has to be a stability to your office.
10:09
SPEAKER_00: So one fine day, he builds an office on campus at Calvary.
10:13
SPEAKER_00: We weren't expecting that.
10:15
SPEAKER_00: And then he says, Well, we want you to come.
10:17
SPEAKER_00: But since then, Dr.
10:19
SPEAKER_00: Don would, over the years, bring teams over.
10:23
SPEAKER_00: They will build swing sets for the orphans.
10:26
SPEAKER_00: Then I'm proud to say it was Calvary who built the first girl's dorm.
10:32
SPEAKER_00: That girl's dorm that Calvary built maybe 28 years ago, over the years has put out over 12,000 girls who are either pastors' wives or teachers of school.
10:47
SPEAKER_00: Those orphans grew up in that building donated by Calvary.
10:51
SPEAKER_00: Then Dr.
10:52
SPEAKER_00: Jeff came.
10:53
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
10:54
SPEAKER_00: And then he enabled a lot of our pastors to get bicycles, uh, provided support for them.
11:00
SPEAKER_00: He also helped us with the Glow's Dome for the ones who are going to the Bible college.
11:07
SPEAKER_00: Then Dr.
11:08
SPEAKER_00: Ricky comes, and uh this is the miracle of God that once a pastor uh retires, when they leave, the association of the church with the mission breaks.
11:21
SPEAKER_00: But I can proudly say this of all the churches I've ever known, Calvary is a unique church that has kept us, and uh to God be all the glory, that the partnership continues, which was started with M.A.
11:35
SPEAKER_00: Thomas and Don, over with uh Dr.
11:38
SPEAKER_00: Jeff, and then now with Dr.
11:40
SPEAKER_00: Ricky.
11:40
SPEAKER_00: And again, Dr.
11:41
SPEAKER_00: Ricky, since you came, we're thankful for providing the bicycles, the boots for 400 graduates last year, uh, 2024 it was.
11:53
SPEAKER_00: And then you provided the well for the orphanages.
11:57
SPEAKER_00: So that's where Association of Hope Givers, and may the Lord continue to keep us together with the with the purpose of seeing whatever we do, maybe say it like with Paul, that has happened for the furtherance of the gospel.
12:13
SPEAKER_01: Amen to that.
12:14
SPEAKER_01: I I wanna I want to affirm um all those things that you just shared, and this is a couple of things.
12:23
SPEAKER_01: Uh one of the reasons why I asked you to share that story is um the Lord is by God's grace, he's doing so many amazing things in our church.
12:35
SPEAKER_01: And we have had a lot of people that have um started connecting with our church.
12:44
SPEAKER_01: Uh uh, and this is not a flex, it's just by God's grace.
12:49
SPEAKER_01: I think we did some math since January of 2024.
12:54
SPEAKER_01: 2,000 new people have been connecting with our church.
13:00
SPEAKER_01: Well, the beauty of that is the Lord is um in giving us opportunities to come alongside people and to disciple them and all those things.
13:09
SPEAKER_01: But the reality though is that means there's a lot of people who don't understand or know the relationship that Calvary has with hope givers.
13:18
SPEAKER_01: So I'm grateful for this opportunity.
13:20
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm humbled and grateful for the times that you're able to stand in our pulpit and teach.
13:24
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for the opportunity, yeah.
13:26
SPEAKER_01: Uh, or whether it's in in the church or in the school, and to be able to be in front of our people so that A, that they understand the relationship.
13:34
SPEAKER_01: But more importantly, I'm grateful for your bold and courageous uh witness for the gospel.
13:41
SPEAKER_01: Like how many, how many uh assassination attempts or 30 years?
13:45
SPEAKER_00: 41 so far.
13:46
SPEAKER_01: Who's counting, right?
13:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think after that I lost count.
13:50
SPEAKER_01: I will say though, uh I'm re as you're talking, I've been reflecting on my times to India.
13:58
SPEAKER_01: Um the first time I came, I was for a pastor's conference.
14:04
SPEAKER_01: This was probably, I don't know, 2011 or somewhere in that neighborhood.
14:09
SPEAKER_01: And a couple of just surface level reactions.
14:13
SPEAKER_01: India is a special place.
14:14
SPEAKER_01: I've often described it, it's a land of contrast.
14:17
SPEAKER_01: Like it is you will see extreme wealth and extreme poverty right next to each other.
14:25
SPEAKER_01: Um that was a little uh overwhelming.
14:29
SPEAKER_01: Uh um and it's just so much.
14:33
SPEAKER_01: Um you know, so you may see uh a wealthy executive getting out of a luxury vehicle walking into a high-rise, and right next to it may be a pile of trash and a kid naked digging through for food.
14:46
SPEAKER_01: It's crazy.
14:47
SPEAKER_01: And so there's this odor, you know.
14:51
SPEAKER_01: And so the first time I went, I was like, wow, that I wasn't expecting that as I landed in Delhi.
14:56
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, well, surely I'll get used to it.
14:58
SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, three days in to wake up, nope, it's still there.
15:02
SPEAKER_01: I'm still not used to it.
15:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I remember uh something that just struck me so vividly was two things on that first trip.
15:11
SPEAKER_01: We walked into um the original church where the conference is held and everything, and I see on the sides like the names of martyrs where for those of you who who don't know, you know, it old school church language, you know, you you might go into this old church and over here on the on the side of the wall, there may be like uh these are the the hymn numbers that we're gonna sing today, or this was how many were in Sunday school today and our attendance last week and our offering, and it's up there on the placards.
15:47
SPEAKER_01: Well, when you go to this church, it's not that, it's it looks like that initially, but it's the names of people that have died for the faith.
15:55
SPEAKER_01: And the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church, and you have seen that.
16:00
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and then also I began to just hear stories of pastors, and and the only way I've been able to describe it is the the level of courage and faith, um, where the Lord may tell them, I just need to go sit under this tree and wait, you know, and they'll do it.
16:17
SPEAKER_01: And eventually people will come and start hearing the gospel and be saved and their life be changed.
16:24
SPEAKER_01: It's almost as if um some of the things as Western, Western believers, when we read the book of Acts and we see this supernatural working, and it's so easy for us to say, well, God doesn't do that anymore.
16:38
SPEAKER_01: And I say, I just need you to go to India because God is still doing that sort of thing there every day.
16:45
SPEAKER_00: It's amazing.
16:45
SPEAKER_00: See, Dr.
16:46
SPEAKER_00: Ricky, India, one thing unique about that is 33 million children on the street of India, 33 million orphaned and abandoned.
16:55
SPEAKER_00: Is there a hope?
16:56
SPEAKER_00: Yes, only through Christ.
16:58
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
16:58
SPEAKER_00: So at hope givers, our desire is to see one million of those children come into the hope homes and be raised.
17:07
SPEAKER_00: Over the years since dad started, 160,000 orphans have come through the system and graduated.
17:15
SPEAKER_00: Out of that, 120,000 are pastors.
17:20
SPEAKER_00: So, of course, raising the orphans.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: And I'm telling you this, if you knew M.A.
17:25
SPEAKER_00: Thomas, what turned him off one day, he would come every Sunday and says, How many of you will give your children to the Lord?
17:31
SPEAKER_00: When he started, average family in India would have five to six children, average.
17:39
SPEAKER_00: As she started the ministry, you know, more years in the ministry, it became very common in India to only have two kids.
17:47
SPEAKER_00: And then now, just one kid.
17:51
SPEAKER_00: Because everybody wants their children to be either doctor or engineer.
17:55
SPEAKER_00: So there's so much money they put, so if they have more kids, they'll go bankrupt.
18:00
SPEAKER_00: So they'll do everything for that child.
18:01
SPEAKER_00: So then Dad, one day he comes and sits to me, he says, You know what, Sam?
18:04
SPEAKER_00: I'm so sick of asking the church people to give their children to the Lord's work.
18:09
SPEAKER_00: He says, We don't have to ask them anymore.
18:12
SPEAKER_00: The Lord's given us 33 million on the street.
18:15
unknown: Wow.
18:15
SPEAKER_00: Raise them to be arrows.
18:16
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
18:17
SPEAKER_00: So whatever is left as leftovers, when we place them in God's basket, He raises to be arrows for Christ.
18:27
SPEAKER_01: That to God be the glory.
18:29
SPEAKER_01: So tell us a little bit more.
18:32
SPEAKER_01: So clearly, you've repeated this.
18:34
SPEAKER_01: There is some strategic love and care for orphans.
18:38
SPEAKER_01: Pure religion is this, that you care for the worthwhile and widows of the world.
18:42
SPEAKER_01: So you you've referenced that, you've referenced these churches that are being planted.
18:48
SPEAKER_01: Some of those are coming out of the orphanage.
18:50
SPEAKER_01: That's correct.
18:51
SPEAKER_01: But there are other branches of care that Hope Givers does, you know, lepers, widows, dowry.
18:57
SPEAKER_01: Tell us a little bit about those other reaches that Hope Givers have.
19:02
SPEAKER_00: India has 4.5 million lepers.
19:05
SPEAKER_00: Uh I was sharing this today in your high school.
19:09
SPEAKER_00: Uh in the book of Psalms, it says, Let's sing to the Lord with 10-string instrument.
19:14
SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, I've been to Grand All Opry.
19:17
SPEAKER_00: There's only six-string guitar, five-string bass guitar, twelve-string guitar, then you have harp.
19:24
SPEAKER_00: What is this ten-string instrument God's talking about?
19:28
SPEAKER_00: He's talking about the ten strings right here.
19:30
SPEAKER_00: Lepers don't have them because they've lost that ten strings.
19:35
SPEAKER_00: So, how do we win those people to Christ?
19:39
SPEAKER_00: You go and tell a leper that Jesus died for you, he says, Ho hum, if he died, why am I so deformed?
19:46
SPEAKER_00: He's lost his toes, he's lost his finger, lost his nose.
19:50
SPEAKER_00: The strategy God gave to M.A.
19:52
SPEAKER_00: Thomas, why don't you take care of their children?
19:56
SPEAKER_00: And of course, Dad believed that if you kept the children away from the parents, majority will never get leprosy if we give them a better environment.
20:05
SPEAKER_00: Guess what?
20:06
SPEAKER_00: M.A.
20:06
SPEAKER_00: Thomas was proven true.
20:08
SPEAKER_00: We have over the years at least 40,000 children of lepers who have come, and every one of them are now adults, and some of them have families.
20:18
SPEAKER_00: Not one has caught leprosy.
20:20
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
20:20
SPEAKER_00: So it's not a magic, it's only the grace of God.
20:23
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
20:24
SPEAKER_00: So the strategy of leper coming to Christ, you take care of their children.
20:30
SPEAKER_00: The leper sees the child's life is transformed.
20:34
SPEAKER_00: He wants to know the gospel that his child believes in.
20:37
SPEAKER_00: So as a result of that, today Hope Givers has 500 churches among the lepers.
20:42
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
20:42
SPEAKER_00: And then the ministry of the burn women, just go to our website, hopegivers.org, you will see that a lot of people they have dowry.
20:55
SPEAKER_00: In India, girls' parents have to give money to the boys' parents.
20:59
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
21:00
SPEAKER_00: In Africa, the boy's parents have to give money to the girls' parents.
21:04
SPEAKER_00: So let's just stick with India, because that's where I'm from.
21:08
SPEAKER_00: So in India, the the dowry would be, if you're a farmer,$10,000, which is a lot of money.
21:16
SPEAKER_00: Because majority of the farmers that I know, they make four to seven dollars a month.
21:21
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
21:22
SPEAKER_00: So if if he had, poor guy, if he had three girls, he's in trouble.
21:28
SPEAKER_00: He's in trouble.
21:28
SPEAKER_00: So anyway, so what happens is once this dowry is not given in time, because some of them give a down payment of$2,000, hoping that in two, three years they will be able to collect the money and give that.
21:42
SPEAKER_00: So the husband, he gets fed up, he beats his wife.
21:46
SPEAKER_00: This happens even today in India.
21:48
SPEAKER_00: He beats his wife, sends her home with a child.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: So the grandparents look at the condition of the girl, their daughter, and feel sorry, and they'll send her back maybe with four hundred.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: $500, whatever they have.
22:02
SPEAKER_00: So this becomes a practice.
22:04
SPEAKER_00: And eventually the farmer runs out of giving money because he can't do that every every other month.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: So then he beats his wife so bad, and he realizes that the money is not coming anymore.
22:17
SPEAKER_00: He literally now, this is the lady he's married to, has now one or two children by her.
22:26
SPEAKER_00: He literally one day will pour kerosene on his dear wife and set her on fire.
22:33
SPEAKER_00: And of course, in India, kitchen is not like the American homes where the it's open kitchen.
22:38
SPEAKER_00: So kitchen is a separate room, like a pantry.
22:42
SPEAKER_00: So there's a lock outside because the curry smell is so strong.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: So they just have an exhaust fan and the room closed, so the guest does not get bothered with the smell of the food.
22:53
SPEAKER_00: So what he does, he pours kerosene on his wife, sets her on fire, and 85% of these women end up dying.
23:01
SPEAKER_00: Oh my word.
23:02
SPEAKER_00: So hopekeevers for the last 12 years have been instrumental in rescuing over close to 4,000 women.
23:11
SPEAKER_00: Majority of them do end up dying because we give them in bad condition.
23:16
SPEAKER_00: Now, the question that is frequently asked to me, what happens to their children?
23:21
SPEAKER_00: And why would the parents send their daughter when they see her beaten so badly?
23:26
SPEAKER_00: Why don't they just keep her?
23:29
SPEAKER_00: Good question.
23:31
SPEAKER_00: To save the face of their face in the community, they will want the daughter to go back to the husband, even though the parents realize he's very abusive.
23:42
SPEAKER_00: And the reason they do that is because if she stayed back with the parents, there goes the karma.
23:50
SPEAKER_00: She must have done bad work in last birth.
23:54
SPEAKER_00: That is why she's punished.
23:57
SPEAKER_00: So if the girl stays with the parents, the whole community knows that she's a cursed woman.
24:03
SPEAKER_00: She did something bad to save their face, they send her back.
24:07
SPEAKER_00: Force and when they know the daughter died, don't you think the grandparents should keep the children?
24:13
SPEAKER_00: Oh no.
24:14
SPEAKER_00: Because to have the children from your daughter living with you, that means the children are cursed.
24:23
SPEAKER_00: That's where Hope Givers gets those children.
24:25
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
24:26
SPEAKER_01: That's okay.
24:28
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: That explains then too.
24:32
SPEAKER_01: You just connected a dot for me.
24:35
SPEAKER_01: The first time I went to India, we visited a leper colony.
24:38
SPEAKER_01: And correct me if I'm wrong.
24:41
SPEAKER_01: But what I remember was, you know, those lepers, first of all, their houses were painted pink, so it was clearly identifiable to everybody.
24:50
SPEAKER_01: That's the home of the leper.
24:51
SPEAKER_01: And the leper may be the scars may be there, but there's they're healed.
24:58
SPEAKER_01: But then their children are treated as a leper, although they never had leprosy.
25:04
SPEAKER_01: That's correct.
25:05
SPEAKER_01: And so that I guess it's that karma association that's causing their worldview to make those connections.
25:12
SPEAKER_00: That's correct.
25:12
SPEAKER_00: Because see, uh Shirley McLean's doing a great job in your country, bringing the religion of India to this country.
25:19
SPEAKER_00: It's called the New Age.
25:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:21
SPEAKER_00: There's nothing new about that new age.
25:23
SPEAKER_00: Everything about that is a philosophy of our nation.
25:27
SPEAKER_00: So it's nothing but Hinduism retrained.
25:30
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
25:30
SPEAKER_00: So they believe in Hinduism that you have to have one million reincarnation.
25:38
SPEAKER_00: Now, don't you want to know what happens after the one million?
25:40
SPEAKER_00: Okay, you first become Ricky Smith, then you die, then you become a monkey, then you become a rat, then you become an elephant, and you become a tortoise, you become a crocodile.
25:52
SPEAKER_00: It all depends on how your karma was.
25:54
SPEAKER_00: So I mean I like to know the end of the story.
25:57
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
25:58
SPEAKER_00: I said, what happens after the one million?
26:01
SPEAKER_00: There's a chance of becoming a good spirit.
26:05
SPEAKER_00: And if you blow up, you start all over again.
26:08
SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness.
26:09
SPEAKER_00: Boy, I tell you what, gospel is so simple, so plain, and God's word says it is appointed for men once to die and then to meet him.
26:20
SPEAKER_00: There is no reincarnation.
26:21
SPEAKER_00: You don't, you're not coming back as anything else.
26:24
SPEAKER_00: God made you in his image, he wants to spend eternity with you, and that's the goal of Hope Givers is to introduce more and more people, whether they're lepers, burned women, blind, children with AIDS, introduce them to Christ.
26:38
SPEAKER_01: Praise God for it.
26:39
SPEAKER_01: So thank you for sharing that.
26:42
SPEAKER_01: Um I I wanted I wanted you to share that so folks in our church are reminded of your work and the continued work of Hope Givers and why it matters and why we want to participate in it.
26:56
SPEAKER_01: Also uh to honor Dr.
26:59
SPEAKER_01: Don Wilhite and Dr.
27:01
SPEAKER_01: MA Thomas.
27:02
SPEAKER_01: Um and so thank you for that.
27:04
SPEAKER_01: I I think though, in the interest of time, uh I will say we're gonna drop in the show notes for this episode a link to Hope Givers website.
27:14
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
27:14
SPEAKER_01: So if someone would like to explore that, learn more about Hope Givers, maybe even feel led to give to Hope Givers or sponsor a Hope Home, all those answers to those questions are there.
27:28
SPEAKER_01: So I pray that you would consider that.
27:30
SPEAKER_01: But now let's kind of move into the second conversation because really the the impetus to this podcast was to help our uh uh church family kind of maybe go a little further.
27:47
SPEAKER_01: So a little context.
27:48
SPEAKER_01: Um we are we're walking through the book of Psalms right now, and yes, we hope to celebrate and worship and learn and study the scriptures when we're together, but we're really trying to reinforce or prop up this uh 100-day devotional guide that all of our congregation is coming together where we're reading the same psalms, we are uh studying the same scriptures, we're praying the same prayers.
28:19
SPEAKER_01: And I think I pray that on one hand, uh God really unites our hearts uh because of our priority to be a people of prayer, but I also because a hundred days is a long time.
28:31
SPEAKER_01: Um but we hope also for someone who is either rusty in their faith practice or new to the faith.
28:42
SPEAKER_01: After 100 days, I've started to create some habits.
28:46
SPEAKER_01: And so one of those habits then is the practice of prayer.
28:50
SPEAKER_01: So I would love to just maybe ask you some questions, maybe personally.
28:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:54
SPEAKER_01: Like what does what does your personal prayer habit look like for you?
29:00
SPEAKER_00: Uh it all started with my dad.
29:02
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
29:03
SPEAKER_00: Uh dad one day uh stood and says, I want to pray 20 times a day.
29:08
SPEAKER_00: I thought he's getting old and losing his mind.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: But I said, How you do it?
29:14
SPEAKER_00: He says, You don't have to close your eyes, Sam, every time.
29:17
SPEAKER_00: And you don't have to say in Jesus' name every time.
29:20
SPEAKER_00: You can continue talking to him, give him praise, uh, let him know your heartaches, and just talk to him.
29:28
SPEAKER_00: Make a friendship with the Lord.
29:30
SPEAKER_00: And by the way, the word habit is an interesting word.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: If you remove the letter H from it, a bit is there.
29:39
SPEAKER_00: If you remove A from it, bit is there.
29:43
SPEAKER_00: If you remove B from it, it is there.
29:46
SPEAKER_00: That's how hard it is to get rid of a habit.
29:52
SPEAKER_00: So to cultivate that habit, let's cultivate with something that with an eternal meaning.
29:58
SPEAKER_00: So, how do I do it?
30:00
SPEAKER_00: We have orphanages, we have Bible colleges.
30:03
SPEAKER_00: If I sit every morning and pray for an hour, hour and a half, that's not enough.
30:07
SPEAKER_00: So when I'm driving, yeah, and so Lord bless Dr.
30:10
SPEAKER_00: Ricky, his family, bless his ministry, Lord bless John, his ministry.
30:16
SPEAKER_00: And if there's somebody who comes in specifically in your mind, has a cancer, you pray for that.
30:22
SPEAKER_00: So I have created a habit of praying every opportunity I get.
30:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
30:28
SPEAKER_00: So instead of worrying, because I can worry a lot, why don't we just turn those worries into a prayer request?
30:35
SPEAKER_00: So for example, uh we have a legal issue with our pastor.
30:39
SPEAKER_00: Uh, we have four pastors.
30:41
SPEAKER_00: They were arrested in a state recently, two months ago, and the government of that state has passed a law.
30:49
SPEAKER_00: Anybody found preaching the gospel, anybody found baptizing a believer, anyone, any pastor, anyone baptized, they will not only be arrested, but they will be hung.
31:01
SPEAKER_00: What in the world?
31:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:02
SPEAKER_00: So two of them, we were able to get out, two are still in.
31:07
SPEAKER_00: So every time I wake up in the morning, I just want to hear the word, they're they're free.
31:14
SPEAKER_00: Because whenever I go back to India, the children and their wives will come to me and say, You don't care about our husband.
31:21
SPEAKER_00: You took care of the two and you didn't get uh ours out.
31:25
SPEAKER_00: You just feel so bad.
31:27
SPEAKER_00: So what do you do then?
31:29
SPEAKER_00: You take that matter to the Lord.
31:31
SPEAKER_00: So, Lord, you know the situation.
31:34
SPEAKER_00: Sam can't do anything about it.
31:35
SPEAKER_00: But you know it.
31:36
SPEAKER_00: And once I leave it, which I do every day, there's a great peace that comes over.
31:43
SPEAKER_00: Now, what's the outcome?
31:45
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
31:46
SPEAKER_00: I like to see them free, but what is God's plan?
31:49
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
31:50
SPEAKER_00: But the more you pray, the more you realize to leave the matter to the Lord.
31:55
SPEAKER_00: Now, this is another thing that I will share with you, Dr.
31:58
SPEAKER_00: Ricky, is eight years ago, I was I was diagnosed with prostate cancer at the age of 45.
32:09
SPEAKER_00: Right.
32:09
SPEAKER_00: Good Lord, you don't want prostate cancer that age.
32:13
SPEAKER_00: Well, I don't want it ever, but uh I I love this.
32:19
SPEAKER_00: Uh in America, the doctors know how to comfort you.
32:22
SPEAKER_00: So this guy looked at me, he said, your PSA is seven.
32:25
SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, don't worry about it.
32:27
SPEAKER_00: Asians get seven.
32:29
SPEAKER_00: For Americans, it's four.
32:30
SPEAKER_00: So I was comforted.
32:32
SPEAKER_00: I said, okay, Asians have seven.
32:34
SPEAKER_00: So at least we are somewhere higher than the Americans in numbers.
32:38
SPEAKER_00: So anyway, long story short, next thing I know, I have 43 PSA.
32:44
SPEAKER_00: So then prostectomy is the next scene.
32:48
SPEAKER_00: The reason I'm sharing that, orphans prayed, pastors prayed, widows prayed, burned women prayed for Sam.
32:57
SPEAKER_00: God healed Sam.
32:58
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
32:59
SPEAKER_00: But what if God doesn't heal?
33:02
SPEAKER_00: He's still God.
33:03
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
33:04
SPEAKER_00: See, the thing is, learn from the life of those three Hebrew boys, Shadrach, Meshach, Abednego, is this we are not going to bow, we're not going to bend, we'd rather choose to be burned.
33:17
SPEAKER_00: But even if the Lord allows us to burn, we're not going to bow down to you.
33:23
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
33:24
SPEAKER_00: Christians, Christian life is not about praying and getting all the answers.
33:30
SPEAKER_00: Christian life is more about getting to know God.
33:33
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
33:34
SPEAKER_00: Allow Him to be God in your life.
33:36
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
33:36
SPEAKER_00: You know, there's a there's a saying you go to every church, God is good all the time, and all the time God is good.
33:42
SPEAKER_00: I like to add a second verse to that.
33:45
SPEAKER_00: God is God all the time.
33:48
SPEAKER_00: And all the time, God is God.
33:50
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
33:51
SPEAKER_01: And I think because of that, um, prayer isn't simply a petition for me to get my way.
33:58
SPEAKER_01: Prayer is more of a posture for me to realize that he's God and I'm not.
34:04
SPEAKER_01: In fact, I would even thank you for sharing kind of some of your prayer habits.
34:08
SPEAKER_01: Uh for me, every morning, uh, a lot of times it is in the car.
34:14
SPEAKER_01: For some reason, I'm able to focus and I'm and I'm praying out loud.
34:19
SPEAKER_01: And uh every morning, part of my prayer is Lord, today I acknowledge, and I say it this way, I acknowledge that you are God and I am not.
34:30
SPEAKER_01: And I want to walk under your authority today.
34:33
SPEAKER_01: Whatever that whatever that means, I just want you to use me.
34:36
SPEAKER_01: However, you choose to do that.
34:38
SPEAKER_01: I'm okay.
34:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, but it is, I think some people oftentimes have this mindset that prayer and our relationship, he's kind of like this genie in my pocket or the the emergency phone like Batman, but it really more is about posturing ourselves in submission to him.
34:58
SPEAKER_01: Uh I I think through uh by God's grace, we were able to um preach a sermon series together a few years back, and we turned it into a book uh and we called it Pray Like Jesus.
35:12
SPEAKER_01: We were really just walking through the Lord's Prayer.
35:15
SPEAKER_01: And in fact, we'll we'll put this in the show notes too.
35:18
SPEAKER_01: If somebody that's kind of cool, they it's on Amazon, you can get it print or on your Kindle.
35:23
SPEAKER_01: Uh but in the sermon that you preach, which is now the chapter in the book, there, you talked about um the hardest prayer to pray is your will be done.
35:36
SPEAKER_00: Kind of, why would you say that?
35:39
SPEAKER_00: Because we don't want his will.
35:41
SPEAKER_00: We want our will, we want God to turn his will to listen to our will and make it that way.
35:46
SPEAKER_00: Because whenever you pray your will be done, you're surrendering to him.
35:51
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
35:51
SPEAKER_00: And by the way, to the listeners, I will say this.
35:54
SPEAKER_00: Uh, talking about habit, when you read the Bible, please read it loud.
36:00
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
36:00
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love it when you say this.
36:01
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
36:02
SPEAKER_00: So when you read it loud, Satan hears it.
36:06
SPEAKER_00: And then you learn how to pronounce some of the names in the Old Testament.
36:11
SPEAKER_00: You know, like a lot of friends, I know personally, whenever they come up with tough names, they just skip that verse and go to the next.
36:18
SPEAKER_00: No, just learn to read.
36:20
SPEAKER_00: See, I can't speak this for Calvary, but back in India, we have some expert believers.
36:27
SPEAKER_00: They can read the Bible and give direction to their wives at the same time.
36:31
SPEAKER_00: Like, for example, he's looking at Matthew chapter 6.
36:34
SPEAKER_00: Honey, would you uh turn the water off?
36:38
SPEAKER_00: Well, it's amazing how he can be reading the Bible and talk to his wife.
36:42
SPEAKER_00: He says, Don't forget to let the dog out.
36:45
SPEAKER_00: Then he's flipping the page, and then he says, Don't forget to bring the newspaper in.
36:52
SPEAKER_00: You think he really read the word?
36:54
unknown: Yeah.
36:54
SPEAKER_00: He didn't.
36:55
SPEAKER_00: So I encourage people to read it loud.
36:57
SPEAKER_00: Satan hears it, but more than that, you hear it.
37:01
SPEAKER_00: When you hear it, faith cometh by hearing, and hearing from the word of God.
37:07
SPEAKER_00: So I encourage people to do that.
37:09
SPEAKER_00: So going back to the hardest prayer, when dad was in the deathbed, that was the hardest prayer.
37:17
SPEAKER_00: And one day when I saw him suffering for two years, and I said, Lord, I'm being selfish, why don't you just call him home?
37:26
SPEAKER_00: Because I don't want to see my best friend suffer like this.
37:29
SPEAKER_00: And the next thing you know, within 30 minutes, he was gone.
37:34
SPEAKER_00: That was the hardest prayer for me.
37:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:37
SPEAKER_00: Lord, let thy will be done.
37:40
SPEAKER_00: And I'll share that towards the end.
37:42
SPEAKER_00: But let me, when you talk about prayer, that I like to share with believers listening to us, Matthew chapter 6, verse 12.
37:51
SPEAKER_00: Father, forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors.
37:56
SPEAKER_00: In India, we are expert in forgiving.
37:59
SPEAKER_00: Really, let me explain how I know that we are the expert in forgiving.
38:03
SPEAKER_00: This is how believers in India forgive.
38:05
SPEAKER_00: Ricky, I'm gonna forgive you, but don't talk to me again.
38:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
38:11
SPEAKER_00: John, I forgive you, but don't ever ask me for my pickup truck again.
38:16
SPEAKER_00: That's not forgiveness.
38:18
SPEAKER_00: Forgive us as we forgive our debtors.
38:22
SPEAKER_00: Matthew chapter 6, verse 14, for if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive.
38:29
SPEAKER_00: Few things we need to understand about forgiveness about the Lord's Prayer.
38:33
SPEAKER_00: Forgiveness doesn't make what happened to you right, it just means you have made a decision not to let it control you.
38:44
SPEAKER_00: By restoring a relationship, you reclaim your peace of mind.
38:50
SPEAKER_01: That is so true.
38:52
SPEAKER_00: Forgiveness doesn't depend on other person, it depends completely on you.
38:58
SPEAKER_00: We think, oh, I'm waiting for that person to ask forgiveness.
39:02
SPEAKER_00: But if you're a believer in Christ, you need to be the one that makes the first move.
39:06
SPEAKER_01: Because in that way, we're modeling Jesus.
39:08
SPEAKER_01: That's good behavior.
39:09
SPEAKER_00: That's correct.
39:10
SPEAKER_00: Forgiveness matters even if an offender refuses to admit his guilt or her guilt.
39:17
SPEAKER_00: When you wait for someone to admit wrong, you're placing your future in their hands.
39:24
SPEAKER_00: Forgiveness is the first beneficiaries, is you.
39:30
SPEAKER_00: When you forgive, you're the first one who benefits from it.
39:34
SPEAKER_00: Number three, your willingness to forgive can move the other person to seek forgiveness.
39:40
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
39:41
SPEAKER_00: Just because you took the initiative, now he's thinking about it.
39:44
SPEAKER_00: Many offenders do feel that they don't deserve to be forgiven.
39:50
SPEAKER_00: When we make the first move, it opens the door for the offender to reach out, find peace and understanding.
39:58
SPEAKER_00: And finally, forgiveness is easier when we accept the fact that we all need it.
40:06
SPEAKER_00: When you refuse to forgive, that's because of pride.
40:10
SPEAKER_00: Yes, it is.
40:11
SPEAKER_00: God opposes the proud but favors the humble.
40:17
SPEAKER_00: So when you asked me about the hardest prayer, and let me explain this, what I meant by that.
40:22
SPEAKER_00: Many years ago, Dr.
40:23
SPEAKER_00: Ricky, um uh it was Liberty University and a group, music group called Sounds of Liberty.
40:33
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
40:34
SPEAKER_00: So they were friends of mine because I'm an alumni of Liberty.
40:37
SPEAKER_00: So they called me, and of course, if Emmy Thomas is in the car, things will always have a different shift.
40:46
SPEAKER_00: So I said, Okay, yes, you're welcome.
40:48
SPEAKER_00: You're welcome, you can come.
40:49
SPEAKER_00: He says, We're gonna be 15, 20 people.
40:51
SPEAKER_00: I don't remember exactly how many were there.
40:53
SPEAKER_00: He said, We're gonna be 15, 20.
40:55
SPEAKER_00: Can we stay at the orphanage and just we don't want to do anything, Sam, just want to minister, teach the children how to praise and worship.
41:03
SPEAKER_00: And um, would you allow us to come?
41:07
SPEAKER_00: I said, Yeah.
41:08
SPEAKER_00: So I hung up.
41:09
SPEAKER_00: My father said, Who was it?
41:11
SPEAKER_00: I said, The friends from Liberty.
41:12
SPEAKER_00: What do they want?
41:13
SPEAKER_00: I said, they want to come and be in the orphanage.
41:16
SPEAKER_00: Oh, no, no, no, change the plan.
41:18
SPEAKER_00: I said, Oh no.
41:20
SPEAKER_00: He said, What's the plan?
41:21
SPEAKER_00: They said, Sam, we're gonna take them to South India.
41:23
SPEAKER_00: Now, Dr.
41:24
SPEAKER_00: Ricky, you've been to Dakota, North India.
41:26
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
41:27
SPEAKER_00: Extreme South.
41:28
SPEAKER_00: I said, Dad, what are you gonna do?
41:30
SPEAKER_00: He says, two things.
41:32
SPEAKER_00: Americans sing better.
41:34
SPEAKER_00: And number one, all of them are white.
41:38
SPEAKER_00: So people in India go crazy to see white people.
41:42
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
41:42
SPEAKER_00: So that dad had a strategy.
41:44
SPEAKER_00: He's from the old school, so he said, which sometimes is a good school.
41:47
SPEAKER_00: So he uh said, Oh, if he had uh white American singing on a stage, we can draw a lot of people.
41:58
SPEAKER_00: And then Emma Thomas will preach.
42:01
SPEAKER_00: I was okay.
42:02
SPEAKER_00: So he's calling back.
42:03
SPEAKER_00: So it was Wes Tuttle.
42:04
SPEAKER_00: I said, Wes, this is Sam again.
42:06
SPEAKER_00: He says, My father thinks uh we're gonna have you come and do Five City White Cruchade.
42:14
SPEAKER_00: This just grew exponentially from.
42:16
SPEAKER_00: So so I said, uh, he said, who who gave you this suggestion?
42:20
SPEAKER_00: I said, M.A.
42:20
SPEAKER_00: Thomas.
42:21
SPEAKER_00: He said, where is he?
42:22
SPEAKER_00: He said, he's in the same car.
42:23
SPEAKER_00: He says, no surprise.
42:24
SPEAKER_00: He knew dad.
42:25
SPEAKER_00: So anyway, long story short, we go to the first city in South India, 400 people.
42:31
SPEAKER_00: So I'm the administrator at that time, and dad was there.
42:35
SPEAKER_00: So second village, 500.
42:39
SPEAKER_00: Third, 350.
42:43
SPEAKER_00: The fourth meeting, I'll never forget this.
42:47
SPEAKER_00: So dad's in the car with me.
42:49
SPEAKER_00: He said, um, can you make a call to the tent house?
42:56
SPEAKER_00: I need 500 chairs.
42:59
SPEAKER_00: No, no, 1500 chairs.
43:01
SPEAKER_00: I said, Dad, fifteen hundred?
43:04
SPEAKER_00: Look at three days.
43:06
SPEAKER_00: We've not maxed five hundred.
43:09
SPEAKER_00: Why do you need fifteen hundred?
43:11
SPEAKER_00: This is the place he was from.
43:12
SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
43:13
SPEAKER_00: So he said, uh 1,500.
43:16
SPEAKER_00: I said, okay, uh, dad, that's a dollar a chair.
43:21
SPEAKER_00: That's$1,500.
43:22
SPEAKER_00: We don't have it.
43:24
SPEAKER_00: If you knew M.A.
43:25
SPEAKER_00: Thomas, this was his famous word.
43:27
SPEAKER_00: The Lord will provide.
43:29
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
43:30
SPEAKER_00: I said, Dad, that was the story of Abraham and Isaac.
43:34
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if that's going to happen today while we're driving this car.
43:38
SPEAKER_00: So after we hung up, one of his friends, which a lot of Christians should know, it's not luck, it's not happenstance, it's God's sovereignty.
43:47
SPEAKER_00: His rich friend from the same city says, Well, MA, I read in the newspaper that you're coming to town today.
43:54
SPEAKER_00: And I said, Yes.
43:56
SPEAKER_00: And uh, is there anything I can do for you?
43:58
SPEAKER_00: My dad said, Yeah, we need.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: 1500 chairs.
44:01
SPEAKER_00: He says, Done?
44:02
SPEAKER_00: Anything else?
44:03
SPEAKER_00: And Dad looked at me.
44:04
SPEAKER_00: He says, You men of little faith, you thought God couldn't do it?
44:09
SPEAKER_00: God did it.
44:10
SPEAKER_00: Anyway, long story short, we get to this place.
44:12
SPEAKER_00: 6 30, Dr.
44:13
SPEAKER_00: Ricky, come with me to that community hall or the big field that they had.
44:22
SPEAKER_00: So we're sitting there, it just started sprinkling.
44:26
SPEAKER_00: My father looked at me, he says, Pray, Sam, that God stops the rain.
44:32
SPEAKER_00: Like any other day, I would pray, Lord, please stop the rain.
44:38
SPEAKER_00: Guess what happened?
44:39
SPEAKER_00: It started pouring.
44:41
SPEAKER_00: And it poured for the next three hours.
44:43
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
44:44
SPEAKER_00: So of course, we're sitting in the car.
44:46
SPEAKER_00: After five minutes, my dad says, Why don't you go ask your friends?
44:49
SPEAKER_00: And they they're my friends because dad didn't go to Liberty.
44:53
SPEAKER_00: So he said, go and ask your friends.
44:55
SPEAKER_00: I want them to start singing.
44:57
SPEAKER_00: I said, Dad, it's raining out there.
45:00
SPEAKER_00: He said, No, no, I want you to go and ask him.
45:04
SPEAKER_00: So Wes opens the door.
45:06
SPEAKER_00: It's a pouring rain.
45:08
SPEAKER_00: He said, What do you want, Sam?
45:09
SPEAKER_00: I said, Dad wants to know if you can sing.
45:13
SPEAKER_00: He said, Sam, Jerry Falwell bought that brand new sound system for this trip.
45:19
SPEAKER_00: That's$350,000.
45:22
SPEAKER_00: If that gets messed up, you know he'll not be happy.
45:27
SPEAKER_00: But we'll do it unless we know, if you tell us that Hope Givers will buy us a new sound system.
45:36
SPEAKER_00: I said, no, Hope Giver doesn't have$1,500 for the chairs.
45:40
SPEAKER_00: Forget$350.
45:42
SPEAKER_00: So I go to dad.
45:44
SPEAKER_00: I said, Dad, this is what they said that the sound system is very expensive.
45:48
SPEAKER_00: Son, go back and tell them the Lord will provide.
45:53
SPEAKER_00: So here I'm getting soaked in the water.
45:55
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
45:56
SPEAKER_00: My my phone's out, wallets all wet.
46:02
SPEAKER_00: So finally the four boys, I said, Well, Wes, my father said, the Lord will provide.
46:08
SPEAKER_00: He said, That means hope givers will provide.
46:10
SPEAKER_00: I said, I didn't mean that.
46:12
SPEAKER_00: He said, The Lord will provide.
46:14
SPEAKER_00: So they stand.
46:15
SPEAKER_00: The girls didn't come that day.
46:17
SPEAKER_00: It was pouring rain.
46:18
SPEAKER_00: So they're singing.
46:20
SPEAKER_00: After singing, here comes Emmy Thomas with a handkerchief on his head, is completely wet.
46:27
SPEAKER_00: So he's walking towards the stage.
46:29
SPEAKER_00: Ricky, I'm telling you, I'm getting goosebumps as I speak that.
46:34
SPEAKER_00: He stood there, and I had him, I had to held an umbrella for him.
46:39
SPEAKER_00: He preached his heart out for 47 minutes.
46:45
SPEAKER_00: I'm getting tired of holding the umbrella.
46:47
SPEAKER_00: So I'm changing hands.
46:50
SPEAKER_00: He gave an altar call.
46:53
SPEAKER_00: Of course, we're back in the car, going to the hotel.
46:59
SPEAKER_00: So I was being sarcastic with Dad.
47:02
SPEAKER_00: I was I hope you feel satisfied.
47:05
SPEAKER_00: Because there's there was not a soul on any chair, Dad.
47:11
SPEAKER_00: Who were you preaching to?
47:16
SPEAKER_00: I said, Well, I understand the will of God, but the trees don't need to hear it.
47:20
SPEAKER_00: I was being very sarcastic with him.
47:22
SPEAKER_00: I said, the church, the chairs, the wooden chairs didn't get saved.
47:26
SPEAKER_00: Long story short, several years later, M.A.
47:29
SPEAKER_00: Thomas passed away.
47:31
SPEAKER_00: But before he passed away, he was in a hospital with a stroke.
47:35
SPEAKER_00: And as I was moving him from one hospital to the other, the nurse comes to us and says, Somebody wants to meet M.A.
47:43
SPEAKER_00: Thomas.
47:44
SPEAKER_00: Would you like to go and see who it is first?
47:46
SPEAKER_00: I went out.
47:48
SPEAKER_00: It was a pastor.
47:49
SPEAKER_00: I said, Sir, do you know M.A.
47:51
SPEAKER_00: Thomas?
47:51
SPEAKER_00: He said, not really.
47:53
SPEAKER_00: I said, Have you been to our Bible college?
47:55
SPEAKER_00: I said, no.
47:57
SPEAKER_00: I said, how'd you know that he was in this hospital?
48:00
SPEAKER_00: He said, there was an article about his biography on the newspaper.
48:03
SPEAKER_00: Somebody had voluntarily put, because they knew that he was going to die sometime soon.
48:10
SPEAKER_00: So I said, So why do you want to meet him?
48:14
SPEAKER_00: I said, I just want to meet him.
48:15
SPEAKER_00: So you have to understand this.
48:17
SPEAKER_00: I take him to Dad's room.
48:18
SPEAKER_00: Dad's laying down, completely paralyzed, right side, lost his speech.
48:24
SPEAKER_00: This gentleman removes his shoes, gets on his knees, holds both of the feet of my dad, and kisses him, and he tells me, sir, you have no idea who I am.
48:39
SPEAKER_00: I was the man who was a student of physics in the University of Kerala.
48:44
SPEAKER_00: I was going to end my life.
48:47
SPEAKER_00: It was pouring rain, and I stood under this tree.
48:51
SPEAKER_00: I heard somebody speak so loud.
48:54
SPEAKER_00: And I said to myself, either this guy is crazy or he has something worth listening to.
49:00
SPEAKER_00: He said, That's the day I gave my life to the Lord.
49:02
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
49:03
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
49:03
SPEAKER_00: Praise the Lord.
49:04
SPEAKER_00: Then he said, My family kicked me out.
49:07
SPEAKER_00: Somebody adopted me from a Christian background.
49:10
SPEAKER_00: They helped me to go to Bible college.
49:12
SPEAKER_00: Today I'm pastoring a church with 69 believers.
49:16
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
49:18
SPEAKER_00: Praise the Lord.
49:19
SPEAKER_00: You know what?
49:20
SPEAKER_00: As soon as he did that, he kissed Dad and told Dad that.
49:23
SPEAKER_00: Dad with his left hand.
49:27
SPEAKER_00: I said, okay, I give up.
49:29
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, some of the ways of God are hard to understand if you're not in tune with him.
49:34
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
49:36
SPEAKER_01: And I think prayer is one of those gifts that the Lord gives us to be reminded of who he is, to stay in tune with him.
49:47
SPEAKER_01: You know, I think when we read, we read the ideas in Galatians 5 and 6 of, okay, I would love to keep in rhythm with the Spirit.
49:56
SPEAKER_01: I would love to keep in step with the Spirit.
49:58
SPEAKER_01: Well, how can you do that with someone you never talked to or you never listen to?
50:03
SPEAKER_01: That's correct.
50:04
SPEAKER_01: And so whether it's forgiveness, whether it is submitting to his will, um, or uh the way you described of your initial relationship or your habits of prayer, just talking with him as a friend speaks with a friend, it's um it truly is a humbling uh gift that we have.
50:28
SPEAKER_01: And I and I'm I'm reminded um often of just the the indescribable gift that God has invited me into relationship with and uh uh the joy, the comfort, the peace, the companionship.
50:50
SPEAKER_01: Um but if someone doesn't have the the willingness, the desire, the habit, if we're gonna use the word discipline to pursue that and cultivate that relationship, truthfully, it's it's not all that dissimilar to any other relationship.
51:10
SPEAKER_01: Like if I if I want to have a healthy relationship with my wife, it requires me to be intentional with time and communication.
51:19
SPEAKER_01: And I think you've given the testimony of your dad.
51:26
SPEAKER_01: Uh there are probably a thousand other stories like that that you can share.
51:32
SPEAKER_01: Whether it was his faith to say the Lord will provide, or his perspective.
51:39
SPEAKER_01: Every time I would see him, it was praise the Lord.
51:43
SPEAKER_01: Hello, my brother.
51:44
SPEAKER_01: You know, just praise the Lord, praise the Lord, just deflecting all the glory to the Lord.
51:50
SPEAKER_01: That attitude doesn't just happen.
51:54
SPEAKER_01: That's correct, it's cultivated over some habits of pursuing the Lord, talking to the Lord.
52:02
SPEAKER_01: And so my prayer is that uh someone listening today is encouraged and inspired by your your challenge, by the testimony of um Dr.
52:14
SPEAKER_01: MA's heart, and that they would be motivated.
52:17
SPEAKER_01: Who knows?
52:19
SPEAKER_01: Who knows?
52:19
SPEAKER_01: One day somebody says, I just stumbled across this podcast one day, and the Lord uses this to lead them to the Dr.
52:30
SPEAKER_00: Ricky.
52:31
SPEAKER_00: A person, a believer who's ignorant of God's word is a great weapon in the hands of Satan.
52:39
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
52:40
SPEAKER_00: So people, when they listen, they listen to reply.
52:48
SPEAKER_00: As believers, when we listen, we don't need to listen to reply.
52:53
SPEAKER_00: We need to listen to understand.
52:55
SPEAKER_01: Yes, so true.
52:56
SPEAKER_01: Well, uh, listen, uh thank you for that.
52:59
SPEAKER_01: You've encouraged me and blessed me today.
53:01
SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you for having me on the show.
53:02
SPEAKER_00: You're an encouragement to me and to the pastors.
53:04
SPEAKER_01: I am into that.
53:06
SPEAKER_01: I think those that are watching today, I hope you're blessed and encouraged.
53:09
SPEAKER_01: Again, click like, subscribe, follow, share, all the things.
53:14
SPEAKER_01: Um tune in to the next episode of the High Dive podcast.
53:18
SPEAKER_01: Look into those show notes if you're interested in learning more what it means to pray like Jesus.
53:23
SPEAKER_01: Look into the show notes if you want to find out more about what Hope Givers is and how you could connect to their ministry.
53:29
SPEAKER_01: Uh, if you're part of our church, now when you come onto campus and you hear us talk about hope givers or you hear opportunities to volunteer at Hope Givers, or you even see campus sign, it's pointing to the office of Hope Givers.
53:43
SPEAKER_01: Now I pray that you better understand what the ministry of Hope Givers is, where and how our relationship has developed, and we want to continue to steward that till Jesus comes.
53:53
SPEAKER_00: And we thank you for all the volunteers that come from your church.
53:57
SPEAKER_01: We want more to come.
53:58
SPEAKER_01: Amen.
53:59
SPEAKER_01: So amen.
54:00
SPEAKER_01: Thank you and God bless.
54:01
SPEAKER_01: Now, I will say um you will appreciate this.
54:05
SPEAKER_01: We have chosen a unique way to end every podcast, and it is in honor of Dr.
54:10
SPEAKER_01: Don Wilh.
54:12
SPEAKER_01: So you probably have experienced this.
54:14
SPEAKER_01: There have been many church services that end, and there's kind of this like, is it over?
54:21
SPEAKER_01: Are we done?
54:22
SPEAKER_01: And there's this kind of this awkwardness.
54:24
SPEAKER_01: Was that song the end of the service or a funeral?
54:29
SPEAKER_01: And then that awkward moment, I have Brother Don would just stand up and say, bye.
54:35
SPEAKER_01: So we've decided that's the way we're gonna end all of our podcast in honor of him.
54:41
SPEAKER_01: So bye.