Latest / The Epstein Chronicles / Mega Edition: Ghislaine Maxwell And Her Battle With The 2nd Circuit Court Of Appeals (11/4/26)

Transcript

Mega Edition: Ghislaine Maxwell And Her Battle With The 2nd Circuit Court Of Appeals (11/4/26) · The Epstein Chronicles

0:00
Speaker 1: Elaine Maxwell filed for an appeal of the depositions that
0:04
Speaker 1: were set to be released on Monday. Well, the Second
0:09
Speaker 1: Circuit Court of Appeals has recognized her emotion and they
0:14
Speaker 1: have decided to hear the case.
0:17
Speaker 2: So I thought that this was probable.
0:19
Speaker 1: I thought that the Second Circuit Court of Appeals would
0:23
Speaker 1: at the very least see this case, right? It wasn't
0:27
Speaker 1: something that they were going to just dismiss out of hand.
0:30
Speaker 1: And as of today, that is exactly what they're going
0:34
Speaker 1: to do. And again, that doesn't mean that the depositions
0:38
Speaker 1: are going to stay sealed forever. Unfortunately, it does mean
0:42
Speaker 1: that they will not be revealed to the public on Monday.
0:46
Speaker 1: It looks like September 22nd is going to be the
0:49
Speaker 1: day where the appeals court makes their decision or has
0:52
Speaker 1: their hearing and we'll know a lot more then. But
0:56
Speaker 1: tonight we have an article that from the Miami Herald originally,
1:00
Speaker 1: but it's being run in the Tampa Bay Times. And
1:04
Speaker 1: the headline is, Epstein confidant, co-conspirator, fellow child abuser, general
1:09
Speaker 1: all-around scumbag, Ghislaine Maxwell wins fight to keep records sealed.
1:14
Speaker 1: For now. This article was authored by Ben Weider and
1:20
Speaker 1: Kevin G. Hall. Ghislaine Maxwell's controversial deposition from a 2015
1:27
Speaker 1: lawsuit will remain sealed until at least late September after
1:31
Speaker 1: a federal appeals court agreed late Friday to hear her
1:34
Speaker 1: request to block the release of the deposition by the
1:38
Speaker 1: accused sex trafficker and alleged madam, aka co-conspirator, aka boss,
1:46
Speaker 1: aka general scumbag, to disgraced financier Jeffrey Epstein. And again,
1:54
Speaker 1: It was very likely that the Second Circuit Court of
1:57
Speaker 1: Appeals was going to hear this case. The real question
2:01
Speaker 1: becomes not if they were going to hear the case,
2:04
Speaker 1: how they're going to rule. And like I stated earlier,
2:07
Speaker 1: they already have precedent for releasing documents in this same
2:11
Speaker 1: exact courtroom. So I'm not going to make any predictions
2:15
Speaker 1: one way or the other because I don't know enough
2:17
Speaker 1: about their overall rulings within that court. to know which
2:22
Speaker 1: way they're going to go. But what I will say
2:25
Speaker 1: is that precedent usually plays a huge deal in things
2:28
Speaker 1: like this. So I would not be shocked either way
2:31
Speaker 1: at this point. But you would think that the same
2:36
Speaker 1: court that dumped the 2,000 pages in the Epstein case
2:40
Speaker 1: would find it hard to deny the judge's order in
2:44
Speaker 1: this case when it is very similar.
2:51
Speaker 2: The action by the U.S.
2:52
Speaker 1: Circuit Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit effectively stops
2:55
Speaker 1: the release scheduled for Monday of a deposition given by
2:59
Speaker 1: Maxwell and another one she wants blocked involving a mysterious
3:02
Speaker 1: person known only as J. Doe 1. So not only
3:08
Speaker 1: is it the Maxwell deposition, remember, it's the other deposition
3:11
Speaker 1: as well. And as far as we know in the
3:14
Speaker 1: public sphere, the person's name is J. Doe 1. So
3:18
Speaker 1: John Doe 1. Who that is, it's anybody's guess at
3:22
Speaker 1: this point, right? For my money, I think it's going
3:25
Speaker 1: to be somebody of significance. But again, that's just a guess.
3:31
Speaker 1: Maxwell's appeal will be heard September 22nd. So that will
3:36
Speaker 1: be the day, I'm guessing, that we'll see which way
3:40
Speaker 1: the wind blows. Now, I don't know if they rule
3:43
Speaker 1: against her, if the documents are released right away, or
3:47
Speaker 1: if there's some sort of waiting period. That is a
3:50
Speaker 1: question that I'll have to look a little bit more into.
3:54
Speaker 1: The release of the document stems from a pleading by
3:56
Speaker 1: the Miami Herald on behalf of its investigative reporter, Julie K. Brown,
4:01
Speaker 1: whose Perversion of Justice series in November 2018 spotlighted how
4:06
Speaker 1: Epstein escaped justice in 2008 despite overwhelming evidence that he
4:11
Speaker 1: had sexually abused women and underage girls. And again, Julie
4:18
Speaker 1: Brown's piece did definitely put some spotlight on what was
4:22
Speaker 1: going on, right?
4:23
Speaker 2: Opened up some eyes.
4:24
Speaker 1: But if everybody would have just listened to what these
4:26
Speaker 1: survivors were saying, Virginia, I mean, Maria and Annie in
4:31
Speaker 1: the 90s, Virginia after, and the other girls, then I
4:35
Speaker 1: have to tell you, folks, we wouldn't have to be
4:37
Speaker 1: relying on something like this because all of these people
4:41
Speaker 1: would have been put away a long time ago before
4:45
Speaker 1: they could have been involved in creating more misery. Lawyers
4:51
Speaker 1: for the Herald filed a motion Friday opposing any further
4:54
Speaker 1: delay on the document release. The district court made specific,
4:58
Speaker 1: well-reasoned findings on the record determining that Ms. Maxwell's deposition testimony,
5:03
Speaker 1: among other judicial records, should be unsealed, argued Christine N.
5:08
Speaker 1: Walls with Holland & Knight. To overturn the district court's ruling, Ms.
5:14
Speaker 1: Maxwell will need to show that the court abused its discretion.
5:18
Speaker 2: She cannot do so.
5:19
Speaker 1: And again, that's another thing that goes into the favor
5:23
Speaker 1: of this stuff being released. I really don't think that
5:26
Speaker 1: they have a tenable position here, right? They don't have
5:29
Speaker 1: a position that can be defended. All they're doing is
5:32
Speaker 1: looking to muddy the waters, like Preska said, and slow
5:35
Speaker 1: things down. And while they have accomplished that in one regard,
5:40
Speaker 1: on the other hand, things are on fire right now.
5:43
Speaker 1: Like I said, Those of us following this case, the
5:45
Speaker 1: stuff that came out in those documents probably wasn't going
5:49
Speaker 1: to be earth-shattering. But to those who have not been
5:52
Speaker 1: following this case, the Unsullied, as I've dubbed them, well,
5:57
Speaker 1: those people, they are all over what has been released
6:01
Speaker 1: in those documents, and people want answers. U.S. District Judge
6:07
Speaker 1: Loretta Preska this week ordered the unsealing and release of
6:11
Speaker 1: dozens of documents from a now settled defamation suit involving
6:14
Speaker 1: Virginia Roberts, who claims Maxwell brought her and other underage
6:18
Speaker 1: girls to Epstein, who sexually abused them and trafficked them
6:22
Speaker 1: to powerful men. Not only that, Ghislaine Maxwell was taking
6:26
Speaker 1: part in the abuse. That's a very important part to add.
6:30
Speaker 1: Preska chided Maxwell's lawyers for delays and shot down two
6:33
Speaker 1: attempts Thursday to slow down the release of all documents,
6:37
Speaker 1: which then began trickling out late Thursday night. They tried
6:42
Speaker 1: their usual tactics, right? They tried the old okey-doke. They
6:45
Speaker 1: tried to slide in at the 11th hour and get
6:49
Speaker 1: everything barred from coming out. And it did not work.
6:52
Speaker 1: And Preska, while not only denying their request, she.
6:58
Speaker 2: Basically made fun of them.
7:00
Speaker 1: Now in federal detention in Brooklyn after her July 2nd
7:03
Speaker 1: arrest on federal charges, Maxwell appealed the unsealing of a
7:07
Speaker 1: deposition she gave in the 2015 defamation suit because it
7:11
Speaker 1: is the basis for the perjury charges brought against her
7:14
Speaker 1: in the Southern District of New York. Her lawyers argued
7:18
Speaker 1: before Preska, without presenting proof, that lawyers for Roberts improperly
7:22
Speaker 1: shared the deposition with federal prosecutors.
7:25
Speaker 2: And again.
7:26
Speaker 1: They're going to make all sorts of assertions. They're going
7:29
Speaker 1: to do their best to get their client off. And
7:32
Speaker 1: that's their job, right? It's up to the prosecution to
7:35
Speaker 1: meet them at every turn and turn them away. It's
7:39
Speaker 1: up to them to counter. Every strike thrown by the
7:42
Speaker 1: defense must be countered and answered with something as thundering
7:46
Speaker 1: or more from the prosecution. And what you see with
7:51
Speaker 1: her defense team here is these guys know that they're
7:54
Speaker 1: up against it. And they understood that even the documentation
7:59
Speaker 1: that was released already, the 638 pages, was damning. What
8:03
Speaker 1: they really understand, though? Oh, they really understand that this
8:08
Speaker 1: deposition and the other deposition, they have the potential to
8:12
Speaker 1: blow this case wide open.
8:14
Speaker 2: Wide open.
8:18
Speaker 1: The broad outlines of the deposition are known. Maxwell is
8:21
Speaker 1: said to have been obstructive, refusing to answer questions about
8:24
Speaker 1: the sexual habits of Epstein or her own personal life.
8:28
Speaker 1: In the transcript of a deposition of Roberts released Thursday night,
8:32
Speaker 1: the Epstein accuser said under oath that Maxwell lured her
8:36
Speaker 1: from a job at now-president Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago club to
8:40
Speaker 1: become a masseuse for Epstein. Roberts alleged Maxwell groomed her
8:44
Speaker 1: and others to be sexual playthings for Epstein and his friends.
8:48
Speaker 2: And we know this, right?
8:49
Speaker 1: We know for a fact that she worked at Mar-a-Lago
8:52
Speaker 1: and we know that that's where she was recruited from.
8:54
Speaker 1: Those are indisputable facts. And like they stated a second ago,
8:59
Speaker 1: we have the broad outline for the deposition already. We
9:02
Speaker 1: know some of the tidbits. We know some of the
9:04
Speaker 1: stuff that's in it. But for me, it adds context.
9:08
Speaker 1: When you have receipts that you can look back on
9:10
Speaker 1: and you can point to and you can provide and
9:12
Speaker 1: you can share with people, It carries a lot more
9:15
Speaker 1: weight than just saying, no, look, trust me, I know
9:18
Speaker 1: that this is a fact. Again, it is not what
9:23
Speaker 1: we know. It is what we can prove. Her lawyers
9:29
Speaker 1: in the civil suit suggested that the deposition had been
9:31
Speaker 1: released to the government by Roberts' lawyers in violation of
9:35
Speaker 1: a protective order barring its release to law enforcement... suggesting
9:38
Speaker 1: that Maxwell's lawyer might try to challenge the perjury charges
9:42
Speaker 1: she faces in the criminal case. And again, they're looking
9:45
Speaker 1: for the loopholes, right? It's not that Maxwell didn't commit
9:49
Speaker 1: the crime. It's not that she didn't commit perjury. Oh, no.
9:52
Speaker 1: It's the fact that those documents are out there now.
9:56
Speaker 2: Shut up. All right.
9:57
Speaker 1: She perjured herself multiple times. Everybody knows it. And now
10:01
Speaker 1: she's getting called on her BS. It's the same with
10:04
Speaker 1: the WikiLeaks dumps. They wanted you to focus on the
10:08
Speaker 1: fact that they got so-called hacked the WikiLeaks emails. And
10:14
Speaker 1: they didn't want you focusing on the content of those emails.
10:18
Speaker 1: And it's the same shit here. It's always the same
10:21
Speaker 1: word games with these people. The same sort of word salad. Well,
10:26
Speaker 1: we're not buying it. We now read between the lines
10:29
Speaker 1: and we know that coming into all of these situations,
10:35
Speaker 1: we have to be very skeptical of everything and everyone
10:38
Speaker 1: involved now. Robert's lawyers rejected the accusation as completely and
10:44
Speaker 1: utterly false in a filing Friday. Maxwell's counsel made no
10:48
Speaker 1: effort to contact us before making these serious charges, nor,
10:52
Speaker 1: as we understand it, did they make any effort to
10:54
Speaker 1: check with the government, Roberts' lawyers wrote. And that's what
10:57
Speaker 1: they're trying to do with this sort of situation. Maxwell's
11:02
Speaker 1: team is trying to make it look like there is
11:04
Speaker 1: improper behavior on the part of the prosecution and the
11:08
Speaker 1: lawyers for the girls. They want to have another ace
11:12
Speaker 1: in their hole, right? Something they can point to. They're
11:15
Speaker 1: trying to destroy credibility, and it is very obvious what
11:19
Speaker 1: they're doing right now. While Maxwell was successful in at
11:23
Speaker 1: least temporarily blocking the release of the disputed depositions Friday,
11:27
Speaker 1: her legal team in the criminal case was rebuffed earlier
11:30
Speaker 1: Friday in its attempts to negotiate a protective order that
11:33
Speaker 1: would allow them to publicly identify in filings that Alleged
11:37
Speaker 1: survivors of Epstein and Maxwell who were not party to
11:41
Speaker 1: the criminal case if those alleged survivors had come forward publicly.
11:46
Speaker 1: I'm really glad that they shot this down, right? Because
11:50
Speaker 1: the last thing these survivors need is more drama, more
11:53
Speaker 1: idiots trying to track them down on behalf of these
11:57
Speaker 1: sick bastards that they're pulling the string on, that they're
12:01
Speaker 1: telling the world what they did. These are dangerous people
12:04
Speaker 1: we're dealing with, folks, right? We got people that are
12:07
Speaker 1: involved in the highest levels of government, some of the
12:09
Speaker 1: richest people.
12:10
Speaker 2: In the world, and we would be naive to.
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Speaker 1: Think that there are not great lengths that they would
12:15
Speaker 1: go to to get themselves out of trouble. Deciding to
12:23
Speaker 1: participate in or contribute to a criminal investigation or prosecution
12:27
Speaker 1: is a far different matter than simply making a public
12:30
Speaker 1: statement relating to Ms. Maxwell or Jeffrey Epstein. U.S. District
12:35
Speaker 1: Judge Allison J. Nathan wrote in denying the request, along
12:39
Speaker 1: with denying a request for greater restrictions on the use
12:42
Speaker 1: of discovery materials by the government and the witnesses.
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Speaker 2: So.
12:47
Speaker 1: They're positioning themselves, obviously, for discovery. That's going to be
12:52
Speaker 1: a key here because that's when the rubber meets the
12:54
Speaker 1: road in these cases. When we get to the discovery
12:57
Speaker 1: phase and all of the evidence is submitted for both
13:01
Speaker 1: sides to see, that is when the rubber hits the
13:03
Speaker 1: road and we find out just how good these lawyers
13:07
Speaker 1: are at their craft. In another development late Friday, the
13:12
Speaker 1: Epstein estate released its third quarter accounting report. From April
13:17
Speaker 1: 1st to June 30th, the document reveals how lawyers are
13:20
Speaker 1: receiving large payments from the estate. This bothers me. I
13:24
Speaker 1: am tired of seeing this estate pay out money to
13:27
Speaker 1: all these other jerk-off clowns. Meanwhile, the girls have not
13:32
Speaker 1: received one single dime yet from this silly-ass compensation fund.
13:36
Speaker 1: I'm starting to have my doubts about that as well.
13:42
Speaker 1: One firm, Hughes, Hubbard & Reed, received more than $ 1
13:45
Speaker 1: million in the three-month period. Troutman Sanders, LLP, received almost $ 800, 000
13:51
Speaker 1: in the period. U.S. Virgin Islands-based Keller Halls, Ferguson, Crobin,
13:56
Speaker 1: PLLC received more than $ 312, 000. What are they all doing?
14:02
Speaker 1: What is all of this money going?
14:04
Speaker 2: Why does he need all of these lawyers?
14:06
Speaker 1: Shouldn't the estate just be handling it, the estate on
14:09
Speaker 1: its own with a team of lawyers? Why aren't these
14:13
Speaker 1: funds seized and frozen? The report highlighted two payments into
14:20
Speaker 1: the newly created Epstein Survivors Compensation Fund, together worth more
14:24
Speaker 1: than $ 2.
14:24
Speaker 2: 8 million. Oh, a whole $ 2.
14:25
Speaker 1: 8 million, huh? Forgive me if I'm not impressed. Considering
14:31
Speaker 1: the amount of money we're talking about here, considering the
14:34
Speaker 1: magnitude of this man's fortune that is stashed overseas and
14:39
Speaker 1: hidden in other banks that we might not have the
14:42
Speaker 1: evidence of right now, the evidence that would lock it in,
14:46
Speaker 1: but the circumstantial evidence and reports from people like Steve
14:50
Speaker 1: Hoffenberg who would know, well, that leads us to believe
14:54
Speaker 1: that there is much more than the eye can see.
15:00
Speaker 1: The report also shows that Epstein sold for almost $ 1. 1
15:03
Speaker 1: million a Bell helicopter that was allegedly used by Maxwell,
15:07
Speaker 1: who had a helicopter's pilot's license to bring young girls
15:11
Speaker 1: to Epstein's Little St. James Island. And not only Little St.
15:15
Speaker 1: James Island, but she would do the same thing from
15:17
Speaker 1: the airport in Santa Fe, New Mexico.
15:21
Speaker 2: How do I know that?
15:22
Speaker 1: Well, I had sources confirm that to me while I
15:25
Speaker 1: was in Santa Fe. Not only that, Earlier today, Alan,
15:33
Speaker 1: I kept my underpants on Dirty Ass Dershowitz was on
15:38
Speaker 1: the Tucker Carlson show and Tucker Carlson, shockingly enough, was
15:42
Speaker 1: asking him some pretty damn hard questions. And I'll tell
15:46
Speaker 1: you what, folks, it almost looked like Dirty Dershowitz was
15:49
Speaker 1: having a Prince Andrew kind of moment. Now, Tucker Carlson
15:54
Speaker 1: didn't go as hard as he could have, but he
15:56
Speaker 1: most certainly did ask questions that nobody else was asking.
15:59
Speaker 1: He asked him about Bill Clinton. He asked him about
16:02
Speaker 1: his involvement with Epstein. And I'll tell you what, Dershowitz
16:06
Speaker 1: made some statements that sure sounded like some lies. They
16:10
Speaker 1: sure sounded like they weren't based in truth, the statements
16:13
Speaker 1: that he was making, trying to defend his buddy Clinton himself.
16:17
Speaker 1: And then the funniest part to me was when he
16:19
Speaker 1: tried to use all of these other people that were
16:22
Speaker 1: supposedly around when he was on the island as character witnesses.
16:26
Speaker 1: Half of them are accused of being involved with Epstein
16:29
Speaker 1: as far as in the trafficking ring, and the other
16:31
Speaker 1: half of them were enablers.
16:33
Speaker 2: So who does this guy think he's kidding?
16:36
Speaker 1: And also on that Tucker Carlson program, before I forget,
16:40
Speaker 1: Tucker Carlson asked Dershowitz directly, directly, was Jeffrey Epstein an
16:48
Speaker 1: intelligence asset? And Dershowitz, of course, went into this big spiel. Oh, no,
16:52
Speaker 1: he's not part of the intelligence apparatus. Oh, he's definitely
16:57
Speaker 1: not in the Mossad or the CIA. Nobody asked you
17:00
Speaker 1: any of that. Why are you throwing around the CIA
17:02
Speaker 1: and the Mossad, bro? I'm telling you right now, Dershowitz
17:07
Speaker 1: was absolutely shook. And another thing that Tucker asked him
17:13
Speaker 1: that I found mind-bogglingly shocking that it was being asked
17:16
Speaker 1: on Fox News of all places, was he said to Dershowitz,
17:21
Speaker 1: they were talking about Dershowitz's personal relationship with Epstein, right? And,
17:26
Speaker 1: you know, Dershowitz has said he stayed at the houses, etc.
17:29
Speaker 2: etc.
17:30
Speaker 1: And then he had the audacity to say that his
17:34
Speaker 1: relationship with Epstein was only professional, right? And Tucker Carlson said, well,
17:40
Speaker 1: I don't know about you. And I'm paraphrasing here. I
17:43
Speaker 1: don't know about you, but I don't let anybody, you know,
17:45
Speaker 1: I don't stay at anyone's house if I'm not their friend.
17:48
Speaker 1: What does that even mean, basically, is what Tucker was
17:51
Speaker 1: asking him. And of course, Dershowitz went into his whole spiel.
17:54
Speaker 2: Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
17:56
Speaker 1: And it was a pretty interesting interview, to say the least.
18:02
Speaker 1: Dershowitz looked shook as hell. And I'm going to, I
18:05
Speaker 1: have to say, I think that this interview right here, folks,
18:08
Speaker 1: is a pendulum swinging kind of interview and the sort
18:12
Speaker 1: of interview that can come back and haunt him. So
18:17
Speaker 1: if you haven't checked that clip out yet, if you
18:19
Speaker 1: didn't see the Dershowitz and Tucker Carlson interview, you should
18:24
Speaker 1: definitely check that out. I'm sure a clip will be
18:26
Speaker 1: on YouTube or Fox or whatever. I'll take a look
18:29
Speaker 1: as well and see if I can find a clip.
18:32
Speaker 1: And if I can, I will put it on my
18:35
Speaker 1: Twitter page. So that is all for tonight, folks. Tomorrow
18:40
Speaker 1: is a very busy day for me in my personal life.
18:44
Speaker 1: Now we have hockey on from 9 a.m. till about
18:48
Speaker 1: 10 p.m. It's like March Madness for hockey fans now.
18:52
Speaker 1: So I'll be locked in watching a bunch of hockey.
18:56
Speaker 1: UFC is also on, so obviously I'll be watching that
18:59
Speaker 1: as well. So if I'm slow answering emails tomorrow or
19:03
Speaker 1: answering Twitter questions or stuff that I'm tagged in, nothing personal.
19:08
Speaker 1: Taking a little private time to hang out with my pops,
19:12
Speaker 1: eat some food, watch some sports, and try and forget
19:15
Speaker 1: about all this madness that's going on around us. So
19:20
Speaker 1: I hope that everybody is enjoying their Friday night. I
19:22
Speaker 1: hope that if you're out, you're being responsible. Please do
19:25
Speaker 1: not drink and drive. And if you'd like to contact me,
19:29
Speaker 1: you can do that at BobbyCapucci at ProtonMail.com. That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I
19:36
Speaker 1: at ProtonMail.com. You can also find me on Twitter at
19:40
Speaker 1: B-O-B-B-Y underscore C-A-P-U-C-C-I. All of the links that pertain to
19:46
Speaker 1: this episode can be found in the description box. The
19:50
Speaker 1: Second Appeals Court in New York heard from Ghislaine Maxwell's attorneys,
19:55
Speaker 1: the state's attorneys, Virginia Roberts' attorneys, and the attorneys from
20:00
Speaker 1: the Miami Herald today in regards to the sealed documents
20:06
Speaker 1: that were sent to them after Preska unsealed them, but
20:11
Speaker 1: Maxwell's team appealed. So the three panel court heard from
20:18
Speaker 1: all of the lawyers today as they tried to figure
20:22
Speaker 1: out if they were going to unseal these documents. And
20:26
Speaker 1: it was kind of a disjointed hearing, to be honest
20:28
Speaker 1: with you. I listened in on it and there was
20:31
Speaker 1: just a lot of, it seemed like confusion from all sides.
20:35
Speaker 2: I mean, Listening to David.
20:38
Speaker 1: Boy's talk, there was a lot of uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-ing, and he
20:42
Speaker 1: didn't really seem to have the answers that the judges
20:46
Speaker 1: were looking for. And the same went for Ghislaine Maxwell's lawyer, Mr. Mueller,
20:52
Speaker 1: in a few instances where it was the same thing,
20:56
Speaker 1: where they had asked him some questions, some pretty poignant
20:59
Speaker 1: questions as regards to the law, and he had nothing
21:03
Speaker 1: for them. But it seemed like each one of the lawyers,
21:07
Speaker 1: including the state and the Miami Herald, all had their
21:11
Speaker 1: moments where they were dumbfounded almost by questions by these judges.
21:16
Speaker 1: And on the judge's end, well, they had to keep
21:19
Speaker 1: asking over and over about if there was information that
21:23
Speaker 1: was being kept from them and all sorts of crazy
21:26
Speaker 1: stuff that I didn't, you know, again, don't get me wrong.
21:29
Speaker 1: This isn't something I do as a hobby, right? I
21:31
Speaker 1: don't sit in on federal calls. and hang out and
21:35
Speaker 1: listen to how the proceedings move. So this might be
21:38
Speaker 1: something that happens all the time at this point in
21:41
Speaker 1: a case like this, in an appeals court where the
21:44
Speaker 1: judges have a bunch of questions and counsel doesn't have all.
21:48
Speaker 2: Of the answers.
21:49
Speaker 1: I guess that could occur. But to me, it just
21:52
Speaker 1: seemed like it wasn't buttoned up correctly. Like there wasn't
21:55
Speaker 1: enough almost preparation on some of the parts.
21:59
Speaker 2: Of these lawyers. So I was just.
22:04
Speaker 1: I was pretty blown away listening to it for the two,
22:09
Speaker 1: two and a half hours that it took place when
22:11
Speaker 1: there were so many parts where the lawyers just couldn't
22:16
Speaker 1: come up with an answer to fit the question that
22:19
Speaker 1: the judges were asking. And then the judges on their
22:23
Speaker 1: part seemed confused about certain aspects of the case itself.
22:26
Speaker 1: Like they didn't know who had the case before Preska.
22:30
Speaker 1: And it was like, did your clerks not do any research?
22:33
Speaker 2: I don't know.
22:34
Speaker 1: Maybe it's just– maybe it was just so long and
22:39
Speaker 1: kind of procedurally boring. But it seemed like they were
22:43
Speaker 1: just not prepared, the judges even. So they didn't render
22:48
Speaker 1: a decision at the end of it. What I took
22:50
Speaker 1: from it personally was that these judges were still not
22:56
Speaker 1: swayed one way or the other and that they needed
23:00
Speaker 1: to go and confer with themselves obviously. and within their
23:03
Speaker 1: chamber privately to decide what sort of decision to render.
23:08
Speaker 1: But I honestly, to tell you the truth, I don't
23:11
Speaker 1: know which way they're leaning. Before coming into that hearing
23:14
Speaker 1: and listening in on it, I was definitely leaning toward
23:17
Speaker 1: everything being.
23:18
Speaker 2: Released, right?
23:19
Speaker 1: Because the Second Circuit Court of Appeals has set that
23:22
Speaker 1: precedent previously with the Jeffrey Epstein case. But this is
23:28
Speaker 1: one of those weird times where it's a civil case
23:30
Speaker 1: and a criminal case running at the same time, running concurrently.
23:34
Speaker 1: So who the hell knows what the appeals court's going
23:37
Speaker 1: to come up with? And I said that as well
23:39
Speaker 1: when we were discussing this previously. So I'm still at
23:44
Speaker 1: that same place. This hearing didn't change my mind one
23:49
Speaker 1: way or the other, but it seems like the court
23:53
Speaker 1: had a lot more questions than these lawyers had answers for.
23:58
Speaker 1: And that was a bit, it took me a bit
24:01
Speaker 1: off guard because I figured the lawyers here would all
24:04
Speaker 1: be buttoned up, right? I figured everything would be locked
24:07
Speaker 1: and loaded and ready to go. But Maxwell's lawyers were
24:12
Speaker 1: super evasive. Like I said, David Boyce, who was a
24:15
Speaker 1: top-notch lawyer, he was kind of tongue-tied a few times
24:20
Speaker 1: and I didn't expect to hear that, that's for sure.
24:23
Speaker 1: The lawyer for the Miami Herald, I.
24:25
Speaker 2: Forget her name.
24:26
Speaker 1: She did a pretty good job, but there was some
24:29
Speaker 1: like procedural stuff towards the end where she was deferring
24:32
Speaker 1: to boys. And then the lawyers for the state, the
24:39
Speaker 1: assistant attorney general, I forget her name as well right now, Porzinger,
24:44
Speaker 1: something like that. She did a decent job too. But she, again,
24:48
Speaker 1: there was a couple of points where the judges had
24:51
Speaker 1: some questions about procedure and certain aspects of why this
24:56
Speaker 1: stuff should be unsealed. And they didn't seem to have
24:59
Speaker 1: an answer for these judges. And from what I can tell,
25:03
Speaker 1: judges don't really care for that. They want some answers
25:05
Speaker 1: when you're in front of them, right? They definitely want
25:08
Speaker 1: some answers and they want to hear what the hell
25:11
Speaker 1: you have to say and why this case is in
25:14
Speaker 1: front of them and as, you know, in an appeals court.
25:17
Speaker 2: What's different now?
25:19
Speaker 1: What should they be looking at that is different than
25:21
Speaker 1: the ruling that Preska put down? That's what they're trying
25:24
Speaker 1: to get to. That's what they were trying to hammer out.
25:27
Speaker 1: And they didn't end up rendering a decision.
25:30
Speaker 2: So there's no word.
25:31
Speaker 1: Yet on when that decision will come down or anything
25:35
Speaker 1: like that. But rest assured, I will most definitely be
25:39
Speaker 1: on top of it, following it, and making sure that
25:43
Speaker 1: as soon as I have an idea of what's going on,
25:46
Speaker 1: that I'm jumping on here and I'm relating that to
25:48
Speaker 1: you because there's a lot of legalese that's going on
25:53
Speaker 1: inside of these hearings, right?
25:55
Speaker 2: Of course, it's a courtroom. That's what happens.
25:58
Speaker 1: And there's a lot to swim through and a lot
26:02
Speaker 1: of information to process. So again, I'm not too sure
26:06
Speaker 1: which way the Second Circuit Appeals Court is going to
26:10
Speaker 1: swing here, I don't know if they're going to release this.
26:14
Speaker 1: I don't know if they're going to give it a stay.
26:16
Speaker 1: I don't know what the case is going to be.
26:19
Speaker 1: But if they don't release it, then I would guess
26:23
Speaker 1: that the lawyers for the Miami Herald, for the survivors,
26:29
Speaker 1: and maybe the state even, will appeal this to the
26:33
Speaker 1: whole entire appeals court and bank.
26:35
Speaker 2: So we'll see how it goes.
26:37
Speaker 1: But as of right now, I honestly, folks, don't know
26:41
Speaker 1: one way or the other which way the wind's blowing.
26:43
Speaker 1: The judges didn't really give off a sense, in my
26:48
Speaker 1: opinion anyway, of which way they were leaning. So let's
26:53
Speaker 1: jump into this article from the New York Post, and
26:56
Speaker 1: it's kind of an overview of what happened today at
27:01
Speaker 1: that appeals panel hearing. Headline, Appeals Panel Withholds Decision on
27:06
Speaker 1: Releasing Details of Ghislaine Maxwell's Sex Life. Authored by Rebecca Rosenberg.
27:15
Speaker 1: Depositions related to Ghislaine Maxwell's sex life will remain secret
27:19
Speaker 1: for at least a little longer after a second U.S.
27:22
Speaker 1: Circuit Court of Appeals on Tuesday heard arguments on whether
27:26
Speaker 1: to unseal the materials but.
27:28
Speaker 2: Delayed issuing a decision.
27:30
Speaker 1: And that's like I was just saying at the end
27:33
Speaker 1: of the panel hearing, the hearing here, they had the
27:39
Speaker 1: judges transferred over to a private phone line, a private
27:43
Speaker 1: conversation so that they could discuss what was going on.
27:46
Speaker 1: And at that point, we knew that there was not
27:48
Speaker 1: going to be a decision rendered, at least at that moment.
27:52
Speaker 2: Maybe there was going to be a decision a little
27:54
Speaker 2: bit afterwards.
27:55
Speaker 1: They would release it in writing or a memo, however
27:58
Speaker 1: that works.
27:59
Speaker 2: But so far, nothing.
28:03
Speaker 1: The three-judge panel did not disclose when it would rule
28:06
Speaker 1: on the possible release of the seven-hour, 418-page deposition. So again,
28:12
Speaker 1: they did not say one way or the other or
28:15
Speaker 1: give any indication which way or how or when that
28:19
Speaker 1: this would be disclosed. So we're going to have to
28:22
Speaker 1: play it by ear, right? And make sure we're following this,
28:25
Speaker 1: have our ears to the ground to make sure that
28:29
Speaker 1: we're definitely keeping right in the middle of all of
28:33
Speaker 1: this so there's no confusion and the conversation keeps rolling.
28:40
Speaker 1: Maxwell's lawyer, Adam Mueller, who I have to say did
28:43
Speaker 1: a pretty good job today. A much better job than
28:47
Speaker 1: we heard Cohen do during the hearing when she was
28:52
Speaker 1: first arrested. He didn't do that good of a job,
28:56
Speaker 1: in my opinion. He wasn't that good at the arraignment
29:00
Speaker 1: But this Adam Mueller cat seems to really know his
29:03
Speaker 1: way around a courtroom and seems like he's going to
29:05
Speaker 1: be pretty formidable. I'm going to take a look at
29:08
Speaker 1: him a little bit later and see, you know, just
29:11
Speaker 1: who he is, what cases he's worked on. But he
29:13
Speaker 1: seems to be a pretty sharp cat. And the prosecution
29:17
Speaker 1: and the lawyers for the survivors should probably take note
29:23
Speaker 1: of this guy. and the way he conducts himself in
29:25
Speaker 1: the courtroom, because he was pretty bulldog-ish today, and besides
29:29
Speaker 1: a few lapses, he was pretty on point. And like
29:34
Speaker 1: I said earlier, all of the lawyers had some lapses
29:38
Speaker 1: here in front of the judges today.
29:40
Speaker 2: From my point of view. But Mr.
29:42
Speaker 1: Mueller, the lawyer for Maxwell, did a really good job
29:45
Speaker 1: in the courtroom and had a very strong showing. Repeated
29:50
Speaker 1: an argument that releasing the materials would result in a
29:53
Speaker 1: wave of negative media and make it impossible for her
29:57
Speaker 1: to receive a fair trial and in her federal sex
30:00
Speaker 1: trafficking case. And then there was an argument there as
30:04
Speaker 1: well that was made by the court and by the prosecution,
30:11
Speaker 1: I believe, saying that that would mean that there's a
30:14
Speaker 1: presumption that the jury pool is already tainted. Even if
30:19
Speaker 1: they release this documentation, they're presuming that because of this dump,
30:25
Speaker 1: because of this release, that it would taint the jury
30:29
Speaker 1: pool and I thought that was an interesting point that
30:31
Speaker 1: the court brought up because I think that will go
30:35
Speaker 1: towards the decision they make right if they think that
30:39
Speaker 1: it won't impact the trial if they think it won't
30:43
Speaker 1: hurt her from having a fair trial then they're definitely
30:46
Speaker 1: going to go ahead and release this stuff so I
30:49
Speaker 1: thought it was a pretty interesting moment in the trial
30:54
Speaker 1: The secret documents relate to testimony Maxwell, 58, gave in
30:58
Speaker 1: a now settled civil defamation lawsuit filed against her in
31:03
Speaker 1: 2015 by Jeffrey Epstein accuser, Virginia Roberts. Maxwell made statements
31:08
Speaker 1: about consensual and intimate conduct with other adults, according to
31:13
Speaker 1: court papers. So, according to the court papers, Maxwell made
31:18
Speaker 1: statements inside of that deposition that regarding her consensual conduct
31:24
Speaker 1: and intimate behavior with other adults. Yeah, I think there's
31:29
Speaker 1: a lot more in there. I think that the deposition
31:33
Speaker 1: definitely veered into other territory, okay? Non-consensual territory. If that
31:39
Speaker 1: was the case, if it was just about consenting adults,
31:41
Speaker 1: and it was just embarrassing, would she really be fighting
31:44
Speaker 1: it this hard, spending this much money, bringing this sort
31:47
Speaker 1: of legal team on board? I highly doubt it, folks.
31:52
Speaker 1: She relied on a promise of confidentiality when she agreed
31:56
Speaker 1: to be deposed, Mueller told the panel. And look, I
32:00
Speaker 1: get it, right? There is definitely some confidentiality issues that
32:05
Speaker 1: are going on here. There is no doubt about that.
32:08
Speaker 1: And it's definitely something that the defense can argue. And
32:13
Speaker 1: it's definitely a defensible position, honestly, to be honest with you.
32:18
Speaker 1: But I don't think it supersedes the right to the
32:22
Speaker 1: public's knowledge, considering this case, the where it has come from,
32:26
Speaker 1: and the sort of douchebaggery that has occurred previously in
32:32
Speaker 1: this case. He added that many of the questions posed
32:37
Speaker 1: to Maxwell were leading and revealing akin to, when did
32:41
Speaker 1: you stop beating your wife? You know, look, there are
32:46
Speaker 1: I'm sure there are a lot of leading questions and
32:48
Speaker 1: I'm sure a lot of it is very, very embarrassing.
32:54
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, you can't go
32:57
Speaker 1: around being involved in a child sex trafficking ring. You
33:00
Speaker 1: can't be involved with people like Jeffrey Epstein and expect
33:03
Speaker 1: to have your secrecy and your privacy maintained. You have
33:07
Speaker 1: been under the microscope since all of this first happened.
33:10
Speaker 1: And if it wasn't for that illegal and draconian non-prosecution agreement,
33:15
Speaker 1: you would have been indicted a long time ago. So again,
33:19
Speaker 1: the technicalities are what they're looking for. Did she or
33:24
Speaker 1: did she not deny knowledge of any activity involving underage minors,
33:29
Speaker 1: asked Judge Jose Cabranes. Mueller declined to answer the question.
33:34
Speaker 1: And I thought that was another pretty interesting point that
33:38
Speaker 1: the judge made by Mr. Jose Cabranes, who was the
33:42
Speaker 1: presiding judge here. He asked that question and Mueller did
33:46
Speaker 1: not answer it.
33:48
Speaker 2: He said that it would.
33:51
Speaker 1: perhaps bring stuff from the sealed documents to light now
33:55
Speaker 1: while it's still sealed, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Again,
33:59
Speaker 1: technicality type stuff, right? So I thought, again, there were
34:04
Speaker 1: a few points where the judges would ask questions and
34:07
Speaker 1: I'd be like, oh yeah, they're going to release these documents.
34:10
Speaker 1: And then there were other points where they'd ask questions
34:13
Speaker 1: of like David Boies or the Assistant U.S.
34:18
Speaker 2: Attorney General. And I'd be like, oh man, they're going
34:21
Speaker 2: to keep this stuff sealed.
34:23
Speaker 1: So again, it's one of these situations where I really
34:28
Speaker 1: can't put my finger on it. Usually I have a
34:31
Speaker 1: gut feeling one way or the other, like you guys know,
34:33
Speaker 1: and I'll have an opinion for you. But I really
34:36
Speaker 1: don't know which way they're leaning here. In her separate
34:40
Speaker 1: criminal case, Maxwell is charged with perjury for allegedly lying
34:44
Speaker 1: under oath during the 2016 deposition. U.S. District Judge Loretta Preska,
34:51
Speaker 1: who is overseeing the litigation over the release of the material,
34:54
Speaker 1: had ordered the documents unsealed in July. Maxwell's lawyers appealed
34:59
Speaker 1: the decision, leading to Tuesday's hearing. Roberts' attorney David Boies
35:04
Speaker 1: argued that the public is entitled to the full.
35:06
Speaker 2: Release of the materials.
35:09
Speaker 1: You know, that line of argument was fine and well,
35:12
Speaker 1: but I don't think he was being a good enough
35:15
Speaker 1: champion for the rights of Virginia in this case. He
35:19
Speaker 1: didn't make the case good enough, in my opinion, and
35:22
Speaker 1: defaulted back to the public being entitled, but the public
35:26
Speaker 1: is not his client. So, again, it was a little weird,
35:30
Speaker 1: and I don't think it was David Boy's best showing,
35:34
Speaker 1: to be honest with you, with all of the tongue
35:35
Speaker 1: twists and stuff like that.
35:38
Speaker 2: I don't think it was the best showing. And man,
35:41
Speaker 2: I don't know. Again, I don't know.
35:45
Speaker 1: At one point, Judge Rosemary Pooler asked an attorney for
35:48
Speaker 1: the Miami Herald who has been fighting for the deposition's release.
35:52
Speaker 1: Miss Maxwell may be a victim as well. Isn't that true?
35:58
Speaker 1: And when she asked that question, my jaw dropped. I mean,
36:01
Speaker 1: I get it.
36:01
Speaker 2: This is an appeals court.
36:03
Speaker 1: They're going to ask those kinds of questions, especially when
36:07
Speaker 1: the other side is saying that one of the reasons
36:10
Speaker 1: they want to keep the names of Jane Doe 1
36:13
Speaker 1: and 2 from being revealed is because they're victims in
36:17
Speaker 1: the case, obviously. So if their names are being hidden
36:21
Speaker 1: and being kept private, why should Maxwell, if she's a
36:25
Speaker 1: victim as well, according to this judge, her line of questioning,
36:28
Speaker 1: playing devil's advocate, I would guess, why wouldn't Maxwell have
36:33
Speaker 1: the same presumption to those rights as well? And I
36:38
Speaker 1: think that's what this judge was getting at.
36:40
Speaker 2: But the lawyer for.
36:44
Speaker 1: The Miami Herald pretty much shut it down right away
36:47
Speaker 1: and was like, that has nothing to do with what
36:50
Speaker 1: we're talking about here anyway. So again, it was kind
36:54
Speaker 1: of an oh shit moment when you're like, did this
36:58
Speaker 1: judge really say that? Did Judge Rosemary Pooler really just
37:02
Speaker 1: say that? And I just kind of shook my head
37:06
Speaker 1: because you know that the defense will love to latch
37:08
Speaker 1: on to something like that. So I, you know, again,
37:13
Speaker 1: I think she was playing devil's advocate, but it certainly
37:17
Speaker 1: is a strategy that you know the defense is going
37:21
Speaker 1: to try and use, folks. They're going to try and
37:23
Speaker 1: use the fact that Maxwell was so-called a victim of
37:26
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein. That's what they're going to try and use. Meanwhile,
37:30
Speaker 1: all of the evidence leads to Maxwell having a leadership role.
37:34
Speaker 1: And I think once you get into the trial phase
37:37
Speaker 1: and we're talking about the heavy hitters, Once we have
37:40
Speaker 1: Alison Moe arguing this case, I think it'll go in
37:43
Speaker 1: a different direction, obviously, because Alison Moe is not going
37:47
Speaker 1: to let them off the hook. If she continues to
37:51
Speaker 1: approach things the way she did the arraignment, if she
37:54
Speaker 1: continues to approach things the way she has throughout the
37:57
Speaker 1: criminal portion of this so far, since Maxwell has been arrested,
38:01
Speaker 1: then I think that Alison Moe is going to crush
38:04
Speaker 1: all of Maxwell's lawyers when it comes to trial time,
38:08
Speaker 1: when they're in the courtroom, when all of the evidence
38:11
Speaker 1: is lined up, when discovery is there. They're not going
38:14
Speaker 1: to be able to use, oh, well, Ghislaine was a
38:17
Speaker 1: victim as well. That shit's going to be shattered into
38:21
Speaker 1: a million pieces. The newspaper's lawyer, Christine Wall, said she
38:27
Speaker 1: disagreed with the characterization, but added it was irrelevant to
38:30
Speaker 1: whether the document should be released.
38:33
Speaker 2: And she went into it a little bit more than that, right?
38:35
Speaker 1: But the gist of it was she disagrees with the
38:38
Speaker 1: fact that Maxwell is a victim at all in this case,
38:41
Speaker 1: and furthermore, that it has nothing to do with if
38:44
Speaker 1: these documents should be released. In another hearing before the
38:49
Speaker 1: Second Circuit Tuesday, Maxwell's lawyers asked the panel to overturn U.S.
38:53
Speaker 1: District Judge Allison Nathan's decision blocking her from using evidence
38:58
Speaker 1: turned over in the criminal case... to fight the unsealing
39:02
Speaker 1: of the deposition in this civil matter. Nathan is overseeing
39:06
Speaker 1: the British socialite sex trafficking case. So they were trying
39:11
Speaker 1: to get it all wrapped into one case was what
39:14
Speaker 1: Maxwell's team was trying to do. And the defense and
39:18
Speaker 1: the lawyers for the, excuse me, the lawyers for the
39:22
Speaker 1: survivors and obviously the state had wanted nothing to do
39:26
Speaker 1: with that. The panel said they'd issue their decision in
39:30
Speaker 1: both hearings at a later unspecified date. Maxwell was arrested
39:34
Speaker 1: over the summer on a six-count federal indictment, charging her
39:38
Speaker 1: with grooming three underage girls to be sexually abused by
39:42
Speaker 1: her and Jeffrey Epstein. The late financier, pedophile, committed suicide, allegedly,
39:48
Speaker 1: while awaiting trial on sex trafficking charges last year.
39:53
Speaker 2: All right, folks, so there we are.
39:54
Speaker 1: This is where we're at so far with the deposition
39:59
Speaker 1: and the unsealing of these documents. We don't know when
40:03
Speaker 1: the ruling is going to come down. All sides have
40:05
Speaker 1: made their arguments. I don't know if they've been made well,
40:11
Speaker 1: in my opinion, maybe not so great. But all arguments
40:16
Speaker 1: have been.
40:16
Speaker 2: Made, and now all we await on is for the
40:20
Speaker 2: judge's decision.
40:22
Speaker 1: If you'd like to contact me, you can do that
40:24
Speaker 1: at bobbycapucci at protonmail.com. That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I at protonmail.com. You can
40:33
Speaker 1: also find me on Twitter at B-O-B-B-Y underscore C-A-P-U-C-C-I. All
40:40
Speaker 1: of the links that go with this episode... can be
40:42
Speaker 1: found in the description box.
40:44
Speaker 2: All right, everybody.
40:45
Speaker 1: Well, it looks like the bipedal serpent, aka Ghislaine Maxwell,
40:52
Speaker 1: has been handed another L by the Court of Appeals.
40:56
Speaker 1: And this time it has to do with the protective order.
40:59
Speaker 1: You know, she wanted to have the names of the
41:02
Speaker 1: accusers and girls that alleged that she committed these crimes,
41:07
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. And it looks like the appeals
41:10
Speaker 1: court Told her.
41:13
Speaker 2: Nine. That would be no in German. So.
41:19
Speaker 1: Again Ghislaine Maxwell. Brings something to court. And again Ghislaine Maxwell.
41:25
Speaker 1: Comes up as a loser. You know there's a pattern
41:29
Speaker 1: here folks. And the pattern is Ghislaine Maxwell. And her
41:32
Speaker 1: legal representation. They're not bringing the thunder. They don't have
41:36
Speaker 1: the goods. And you can only do so much. When
41:40
Speaker 1: you're defending yourself. a guilty party. And from where I'm sitting,
41:46
Speaker 1: in my opinion, Ghislaine Maxwell is as guilty as they come.
41:51
Speaker 1: And probably for other crimes that we haven't even discussed yet.
41:56
Speaker 1: You don't spend your life hanging out with somebody like
42:00
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein and being raised at somebody like Robert Maxwell's
42:04
Speaker 1: knee and not come out of that with a few scams, plots,
42:09
Speaker 1: and schemes. that you're embroiled in. And for decades, her
42:14
Speaker 1: and her buddy Jeffrey got away with it, right? They
42:17
Speaker 1: were able to just run around and do whatever they want,
42:20
Speaker 1: pretty much. All these people in so-called polite society, like
42:24
Speaker 1: good old Chuckie Schumer, who received $ 22, 000 in donations from
42:29
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein, they didn't know anything about it, but we
42:33
Speaker 1: had no idea what Jeffrey Epstein was. Meanwhile, the rumors
42:39
Speaker 1: were hot and heavy. people were talking. And you even
42:42
Speaker 1: had the lady from Reddit, I forget her name now,
42:45
Speaker 1: talking about how, oh, everybody knew what Ghislaine Maxwell and
42:48
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein were. So please, it's so ridiculous when you
42:53
Speaker 1: have these people who act like they didn't know what
42:56
Speaker 1: Ghislaine Maxwell was, what she was up to, and what
42:59
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein was up to with her. And the funniest
43:03
Speaker 1: part about it is we have some of the most
43:05
Speaker 1: High profile politicians... In the world.
43:09
Speaker 2: Not just in America... Who have had their hands... In
43:12
Speaker 2: this idiot's dirty money jar....
43:15
Speaker 1: And those same people... Have the audacity... To look down
43:19
Speaker 1: upon you... It's quite the scam they have going... Isn't it?
43:24
Speaker 2: Quite the shell game... Anyway.
43:28
Speaker 1: To more pleasant news... I guess we should say... And
43:32
Speaker 1: that is Ghislaine Maxwell... catching this L. So let's jump
43:36
Speaker 1: into this article by Law and Crime and see what
43:38
Speaker 1: our good buddy Colin Kambacher has for us. Headline, appeals
43:44
Speaker 1: court hands Ghislaine Maxwell sharply worded setback in litigation over
43:49
Speaker 1: protective order. And like usual, I prefer to use Law
43:54
Speaker 1: and Crime when we're talking about issues like this, considering, well,
43:57
Speaker 1: that's what they do, And Colin Kambacher has been very,
44:01
Speaker 1: very good throughout this whole entire thing.
44:03
Speaker 2: Very thorough.
44:05
Speaker 1: And he does a good job explaining it to the layman, right?
44:09
Speaker 1: People like us who might not be lawyers, but have
44:12
Speaker 1: been following the case and we understand enough to be dangerous.
44:16
Speaker 1: People like Colin Kambacher help fill in those blanks, though.
44:20
Speaker 1: And I always like to use law and law and crime,
44:24
Speaker 1: if possible, when we're talking about situations such as these.
44:29
Speaker 1: Alleged sex trafficker, co-conspirator, fellow child abuser, general all-around scuzzbag,
44:37
Speaker 1: and bipedal serpent, Ghislaine Maxwell lost an appeal in her
44:41
Speaker 1: criminal case late Monday afternoon. And now when you start
44:45
Speaker 1: losing these appeals in your criminal case at the rate
44:49
Speaker 1: she's losing them, it has to be concerning, right? I
44:52
Speaker 1: know if I was Ghislaine Maxwell, I would not be
44:54
Speaker 1: too happy with the way things are going. And we
44:58
Speaker 1: know that shit is just going to get deeper for her.
45:00
Speaker 1: It's like being caught in quicksand. That's where she's at
45:03
Speaker 1: right now. She is definitely caught in proverbial quicksand. And
45:08
Speaker 1: the more federal charges that end up getting dropped on
45:11
Speaker 1: her and the more superseded indictments that end up being
45:14
Speaker 1: dropped on her, the harder it's going to be for
45:17
Speaker 1: her to extricate herself from that, right? She won't be
45:20
Speaker 1: able to extract herself at all. She'll be stuck and
45:23
Speaker 1: that'll be it. And that's the position she finds herself
45:27
Speaker 1: in right now. And you see all of these appeals
45:29
Speaker 1: getting denied, all of these motions being denied. And it just,
45:34
Speaker 1: they start piling up and it is not a good
45:37
Speaker 1: look for Ghislaine Maxwell. And her prospects certainly are not
45:41
Speaker 1: looking too pleasant at this point. We have reviewed all
45:47
Speaker 1: of the arguments raised by defendant appellant Maxwell on appeal
45:51
Speaker 1: and find them to be without merit. Second Circuit Clerk
45:55
Speaker 1: Catherine O'Hagan-Wolfe wrote in the court summary order, the appeal
45:59
Speaker 1: is dismissed and the motion to consolidate is denied as moot.
46:05
Speaker 1: So basically telling her, your whole entire point means nada,
46:09
Speaker 1: you didn't make your point, it's a moot point, and
46:13
Speaker 1: we're not going to hear it. Your motion and your
46:16
Speaker 1: appeal has been dismissed and there will be no consolidation.
46:21
Speaker 1: The upshot here is somewhat obvious. excuse me, the upshot
46:26
Speaker 1: here is somewhat different. Maxwell filed her original request to
46:30
Speaker 1: file documents under seal, so none of the details of
46:33
Speaker 1: that request are currently public knowledge.
46:35
Speaker 2: Shocking, right? Let's keep some more secrets.
46:37
Speaker 1: I want to do everything in secrecy because I'm so innocent.
46:41
Speaker 2: I don't understand.
46:42
Speaker 1: If you're innocent, shouldn't you welcome investigations? Shouldn't you be
46:49
Speaker 1: receiving of them? Don't you want to get yourself you know,
46:54
Speaker 1: cleared of charges or whatever it may be. But all
46:57
Speaker 1: of these people, none of them want to ever have
47:00
Speaker 1: any kind of transparency. Everything's under seal and everything's done privately.
47:05
Speaker 1: And that's so that they can maneuver themselves on the
47:08
Speaker 1: levers of power within the Justice Department, excuse me, the
47:13
Speaker 1: criminal justice system. That way they can use their loopholes
47:17
Speaker 1: and all their little tricks and all the little laws
47:21
Speaker 1: that were put in there as back doors by their
47:23
Speaker 1: best friends in Congress. You know, the story we're always
47:26
Speaker 1: talking about here. And that's why they don't want it
47:28
Speaker 1: to be done in the public view.
47:31
Speaker 2: Just like politics.
47:32
Speaker 1: They don't want it to be done in the light
47:33
Speaker 1: of the public. They can't make their backroom deals then. Additionally,
47:39
Speaker 1: her request would have only impacted documents that were never
47:43
Speaker 1: likely to become public in the first or really any instance. Finally,
47:48
Speaker 1: the appeals court denial of the request maintains the wall
47:51
Speaker 1: of judicial secrecy around what exactly Maxwell was attempting to
47:56
Speaker 1: put on the record. So there's a lot we don't
48:02
Speaker 1: know is basically what this is saying, right? It is a...
48:07
Speaker 1: case where the prosecution has had decades to compile evidence
48:14
Speaker 1: and there were cases previously and investigations previously that they
48:19
Speaker 1: can pick and choose and pull different documentation from. So
48:26
Speaker 1: it's definitely the kind of situation where There is a
48:32
Speaker 1: bunch of gamesmanship going on on both sides. It just
48:36
Speaker 1: depends now on who is going to be better in
48:38
Speaker 1: the courtroom and who is going to make their point, right?
48:41
Speaker 1: The prosecution, obviously, it sure looks like they have plenty
48:45
Speaker 1: of ammunition on their side. And the defense, well, it's
48:50
Speaker 1: kind of like in the old days when you'd have
48:53
Speaker 1: somebody stepping into the ring with Mike Tyson. It's almost
48:56
Speaker 1: over before it begins at this point with all of
48:58
Speaker 1: the evidence and the people willing to come out and
49:01
Speaker 1: testify against Maxwell. Jeffrey Epstein's longtime girlfriend and alleged co-conspirator, hey,
49:09
Speaker 1: I like that, fellow child abuser, general all-around scuzzbag, and
49:14
Speaker 1: bipedal serpent, unsuccessfully requested a court order modifying the overall
49:20
Speaker 1: protective order in her criminal case in late August of
49:23
Speaker 1: this year. And that was, she was trying to, she
49:29
Speaker 1: wanted to get that whole entire thing modified and try
49:33
Speaker 1: and get it so the girl's names would be available
49:37
Speaker 1: to her. U.S. District Judge for the Southern District of
49:41
Speaker 1: New York, SDNY, Allison J. Nathan, denied Maxwell's letter motion
49:46
Speaker 1: in a five-page opinion and order issued early September. Specifically,
49:52
Speaker 1: Maxwell requested the judge to allow her to file secret
49:55
Speaker 1: documents under seal in certain civil cases materials that she
49:59
Speaker 1: received in discovery from the government in her ongoing criminal
50:03
Speaker 1: case on sex trafficking. So that was what earlier when
50:07
Speaker 1: we were talking about consolidation, she wanted to consolidate the
50:10
Speaker 1: criminal case into the civil case and pick and choose
50:13
Speaker 1: and pull. Conspiracy and perjury charges. She also requested the
50:21
Speaker 1: ability to reference, but not file, additional discovery material produced
50:26
Speaker 1: by the government to her criminal defense team. So she
50:29
Speaker 1: wanted to have her cake and eat it too, basically,
50:31
Speaker 1: is what's going on here. She wants to be able
50:34
Speaker 1: to file this stuff under seal. And then what she
50:41
Speaker 1: wants is to be able to keep it all secret
50:43
Speaker 1: as she picks and chooses what she's going to use
50:46
Speaker 1: in her criminal case or her civil case. And that's
50:50
Speaker 1: what was going on here. That was under appeal. And
50:53
Speaker 1: that is what the appeals court dismissed today. Upon receipt
51:00
Speaker 1: of some of the discovery, Maxwell filed the instant request,
51:04
Speaker 1: which seeks modification of the protective order in order to
51:08
Speaker 1: use documents produced in the criminal case and other civil proceedings.
51:12
Speaker 1: The court's order explains. So again, like I was just explaining,
51:18
Speaker 1: she wants to use the documentation in both cases. and
51:24
Speaker 1: keep it under seal at the same time. So basically,
51:27
Speaker 1: she's trying to keep everything hush-hush where she only knows,
51:32
Speaker 1: and there's no unsealed documents. And the court is obviously
51:37
Speaker 1: not having it. She bases her request on the premise
51:42
Speaker 1: that disclosure of the documents to the relevant judicial officers
51:46
Speaker 1: is allegedly necessary to ensure the fair adjudication of issues
51:51
Speaker 1: being litigated in those civil matters. Judge Nathan went on
51:56
Speaker 1: to rubbish Maxwell's arguments. But after 14 single-spaced pages of
52:01
Speaker 1: heated rhetoric, the defendant proffers no more than vague, speculative,
52:07
Speaker 1: and conclusory assertions as to why that it is the case.
52:14
Speaker 1: She provides no coherent explanation of what argument she intends
52:18
Speaker 1: to make before these courts that requires the presentation of
52:22
Speaker 1: the materials received in discovery in this criminal matter under
52:27
Speaker 1: the existing terms of the protective order in this case. Basically,
52:31
Speaker 1: Judge Nathan is lambasting her for having nothing. She's not
52:36
Speaker 1: bringing any kind of coherent argument or legal challenge to
52:42
Speaker 1: what is going on here. She's basically just saying, this
52:45
Speaker 1: is what I want, and then not providing any legal
52:48
Speaker 1: reasoning for that to occur. And she furnishes no substantive
52:58
Speaker 1: explanation regarding the relevance of the documents to decisions to
53:02
Speaker 1: be made in those matters, let alone any explanation of
53:06
Speaker 1: why modifying the protective order in order to allow such
53:10
Speaker 1: disclosure is necessary to ensure the fair adjudication of those matters.
53:16
Speaker 1: In sum, the arguments Maxwell presents to the court plainly
53:20
Speaker 1: fail to establish good cause. The defendant's request is denied
53:25
Speaker 1: on this basis. So again, very adamant, both the appeals
53:30
Speaker 1: court and Judge Nathan on the fact that there was
53:33
Speaker 1: not a coherent argument made by Ghislaine Maxwell to prove
53:38
Speaker 1: her case. Maxwell appealed the court's order two days later,
53:42
Speaker 1: filing a notice of appeal with the Second Circuit Court
53:45
Speaker 1: of Appeals. The appeal was shuttered by the appellate court
53:48
Speaker 1: Monday summary order, which has no precedential effect because it
53:53
Speaker 1: is a determination that doesn't contain a technical legal opinion.
53:58
Speaker 1: The three-judge panel did, however, take the time out to
54:01
Speaker 1: briefly dispense with some of Maxwell's legal arguments. The appeals
54:06
Speaker 1: court noted that they are bound by the final judgment rule,
54:09
Speaker 1: which limits their jurisdiction to the final decisions of the
54:12
Speaker 1: district courts. And because Maxwell's criminal case is currently ongoing,
54:16
Speaker 1: there are just four circumstances in criminal cases that come within.
54:20
Speaker 1: Supreme Court issued exemptions to the final judgment rule. So
54:25
Speaker 1: they're letting Ghislaine Maxwell know here that there is just
54:30
Speaker 1: no way for them to flip this, even if they
54:33
Speaker 1: wanted to. They're bound by the final judgment rule, which
54:36
Speaker 1: limits their jurisdiction. We declined to exercise jurisdiction where we
54:42
Speaker 1: have none and accordingly dismissed this appeal for lack of jurisdiction.
54:47
Speaker 2: The court's orders notes.
54:49
Speaker 1: So again, flipped it right back to Nathan. They said
54:53
Speaker 1: it's not in their jurisdiction and they're going to respect
54:57
Speaker 1: the lower court's order here and what Nathan ordered originally.
55:02
Speaker 1: The circuit judges also dismissed Maxwell's argument seeking a writ
55:07
Speaker 1: of mandamus, forcing the district court to modify the protective order. Here,
55:12
Speaker 1: Maxwell failed to demonstrate that such exceptional circumstances exist and
55:18
Speaker 1: that the district court usurped its power or abused its discretion,
55:23
Speaker 1: the second circuit court noted. Accordingly, We declined to issue
55:27
Speaker 1: a writ modifying the protective order. So again, they denied it. No,
55:32
Speaker 1: we're not issuing this writ. You have not proven to
55:36
Speaker 1: us that these exceptional circumstances even exist. Never mind enough
55:41
Speaker 1: for us to provide you with a writ. Maxwell, the
55:44
Speaker 1: alleged primary enabler of a years-long global child sex conspiracy,
55:50
Speaker 1: also requested that her criminal case be consolidated with the
55:54
Speaker 1: ongoing civil case initiated by Epstein survivor Virginia Roberts. And
56:00
Speaker 1: you notice how Colin calls her a survivor here, not
56:04
Speaker 1: a victim, not any of the other garbage we see
56:06
Speaker 1: with some of the other articles.
56:08
Speaker 2: And I take notice of that.
56:10
Speaker 1: And those are the kind of articles that I like
56:11
Speaker 1: to read when we meet up here on the podcast
56:15
Speaker 1: to go over this stuff, as opposed to these half-assed
56:18
Speaker 1: people Who just got involved with the case... Or like
56:21
Speaker 1: one of these... Weird ass podcasts... That have just popped up.
56:24
Speaker 2: Out of nowhere... Out of the blue.
56:26
Speaker 1: Talking all kinds of nonsense... You know... I really appreciate....
56:33
Speaker 2: How Colin... Conducts himself here.
56:37
Speaker 1: The court quickly binned that request... Based on mootness... Due
56:40
Speaker 1: to their lack of jurisdiction... But went on to characterize...
56:44
Speaker 1: Some of the defendant's legal arguments.
56:48
Speaker 1: Here, the parties, judges, and legal issues presented in these
56:52
Speaker 1: appeals lack a common identity, the Second Circuit concluded. The
56:57
Speaker 1: criminal appeal concerns a denial of Maxwell's motion to modify
57:01
Speaker 1: a protective order, while the civil appeal concerns an unsealing order. Further,
57:07
Speaker 1: as the District Court correctly noted, Maxwell provides no coherent
57:12
Speaker 1: explanation connecting the discovery materials at issue with in the
57:16
Speaker 1: criminal case to the civil litigation. And then the four-page
57:21
Speaker 1: ruling is also on this link here that we're going
57:27
Speaker 1: to provide at the Law and Crime website. So... The
57:34
Speaker 1: court wasn't having it. There's no way they were going
57:36
Speaker 1: to consolidate this. We knew they weren't going to consolidate this.
57:40
Speaker 1: And after the Second Circuit Court ruled to unseal those
57:44
Speaker 1: documents and uphold the ruling, I knew that it was
57:48
Speaker 1: going to be a cascade of very unfavorable decisions coming
57:52
Speaker 1: down the pipe for Ghislaine Maxwell. And guess what?
57:56
Speaker 2: Good news.
57:58
Speaker 1: If you'd like to contact me, you can do that
58:00
Speaker 1: at bobbycappucci at protonmail.com. That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I at protonmail.com. You can
58:09
Speaker 1: also find me on Twitter at B-O-B-B-Y underscore C-A-P-U-C-C-I. All
58:16
Speaker 1: of the links that go with the episode are included
58:19
Speaker 1: in the description box.