Latest / Leaders In Payments / Women Leaders in Payments: The Future is Human with Gunita Bindra, Bottomline | Episode 501

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Women Leaders in Payments: The Future is Human with Gunita Bindra, Bottomline | Episode 501 · Leaders In Payments

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Women Leaders in Payments Month, where we highlight and celebrate the women shaping the future of payments in FinTech through their leadership, insight, and impact.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: A special thank you to Payrock for sponsoring this year's series and for powering the continued advancement of women across our industry.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: Now, on to the show.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, everyone, and welcome to this Women Leaders in Payments Month episode.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Today I'm honored to have as our special guest Ganita Bindra, the CRO of Pay Mode New Business Development at Bottom Line.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: So, Ganita, thank you so much for being here and welcome to the show.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me, Greg.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Let's start with a little icebreaker.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: So if you could instantly become an expert in one non-work-related skiller hobby, what would it be and why?
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll tell you, and there is a reason why I'm going to say golf.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I truly, truly just want to learn that sport and want to learn it so quickly.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's because I live in Florida, surrounded by beautiful golf courses, and I cannot play.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd love to learn that sport and go and enjoy my surroundings.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if you learn how to do that quickly and become an expert, let me know what you did because I would love to do that as well.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let's talk a little bit about your background and your career journey.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: So if you don't mind, give us a quick snapshot of your background, maybe where you grew up, what you studied, and what led you into the world of payments in fintech.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'll try to keep it short, but I grew up in India, Greg, and I did my bachelor's in computer science in India.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: I moved to the US, Los Angeles, in 2009, did my master's in computer science from USC, and then moved to San Francisco.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: My first job was a software engineer.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's so funny that job has evolved so much in the last few years, especially in the last year.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I was a user interface developer, coding my way for the first three years, but then I got bored sitting behind the laptop and just coding.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to experience what it looks like and what it feels like working with customers.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I moved into solution consulting.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: And through that, I was exposed to a lot of cultures.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: I traveled around the world and was actually implementing a lot of big IT projects for a lot of companies like Schneider Electric.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: And at that time, I was working for Tipco Software.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: Think of this classic immigrant story coming from India, did my education here, worked as a software developer.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Then I moved to Florida and I ventured my way into product management.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that so much.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it was a great evolution from software engineering to solution consulting to actually building what the customers want and what they truly need.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: So at that time, I was working in Jacksonville for a company called Availity.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a healthcare company and you know, got my way into product management.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: Then I moved to Phoenix, Arizona, and I worked for another healthcare company, WebPT, that is, for a couple of years.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then I moved back to Florida and this time to Naples, Fort Myers area.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I was working remotely for my company in Phoenix.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what, Greg?
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: I thought as much as I love working remotely at that time, I felt like I wanted to go back into the office and enjoy the people and working with people.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: That was my way into FinTech.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I worked for a company called Eden Red, which is based here in Bonita Springs.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that got me into financial technology, the payment space.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I enjoy this space so much.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then from Eden Red, I, through networking, got into bottom line and I've been with bottom line for the last six years.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Again, started out leading product here at Bottom Line.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then last couple of years I've been in sales and leading sales organization for pay mode, which is a prime product for bottom line.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I love, love payments.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, great.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for sharing that.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: Was there a person, an opportunity, or even an unexpected moment that helped you shape the direction of your career?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Greg, I don't think it was one person.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think it was one moment.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think I am that amalgamation of just many, many people, many mentors, and many amazing experiences.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm a person who's been fortunate to be at the right time, at the right place for many of the events, and just feel like I cannot point just one person.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think I'm an amalgamation of many people that have supported me right from my childhood.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: My parents have truly been a big part of this career journey that I've had to my husband, to my kids, to my CEOs that I've worked with and for, to my managers and all of the people have played a significant part in my journey.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I truly cannot come up with just one moment or one person.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for sharing that.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: So tell us about your role today at Bottom Line and what part of your work are you most excited about?
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: So my role at bottom line, Greg, is I lead sales and partnership organization.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: Our mission is to just power payments in various software solutions, large top banks.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: That is our mission.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: And the part of my job that I truly, truly love, I think there's two parts.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: One is, of course, I'm privileged and honored to lead an amazing team.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: My team is a group of just amazing individuals, full of hustle, ambition, amazing human beings.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I have the privilege and honor to work with and for them.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: And the second reason that truly excites me today and in this role is the deal making aspect.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: I absolutely love working with large banks and fintechs and crafting creative deals and thinking differently.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: And this allows me to meet different kinds of people and allows me to look at opportunities differently too, which is I absolutely love that.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm going to connect the dots between if you learn how to golf, when you get a birdie or a par in golf, if you're like me, you'll get that excitement as like you're getting leading your teams and closing deals.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to pull those together for you.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: So more encouragement to learn golf.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: So let's pivot a little bit and talk about leadership and perspective.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: This year's theme is the future as human.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: So when you hear that phrase, what does it mean to you as a leader in payments?
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: For C.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: Greg, I think that is a beautiful theme.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I say that because one, not only it's beautiful, two, it's timely.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: In the times where we as human beings that have truly built AI are still fighting our way and have that little friction.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: Is the technology going to lead humans or humans are going to lead technology?
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I absolutely one, love this theme.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: Two, I'd love to say, Greg, that where I think the future is headed, if you look at the past, I think the past is very much built by the human hands.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: And you look at the present, which is this AI, look at what SpaceX is doing, what is happening in the payments world, is driven by human mind.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think where the future is headed is truly going to be coming out of the human spirit.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we're going to see more of the distinct qualities of human beings in our future.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I am truly excited about that.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this is kind of a follow-on question as payments become more and more digital, more embedded, more intelligent.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think that leaders need to keep front and center as this industry evolves?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think one is embracing change, embracing new technologies, embracing this whole era of AI that we're living in.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I think one, we should all embrace that.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: And two, I'd say we should all work towards building a company or a business that is enduring excellence, not just building for success short term.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: But I'd love for all of the leaders and myself included to look at things long term and not so much short terms.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: That last one's a great one because public companies are like, hey, we got to hit those quarterly numbers.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes you wonder.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not just public companies, right?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: All companies typically have some type of board or somebody they're reporting to.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's always a challenge.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a great one.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: So, what is something that you've learned about leadership that you wish maybe you had understood earlier in your career?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd say I wish my younger self or newer leaders would know that they have a lot more power to influence the outcomes for themselves.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: And what I mean by that is in the business world, the more you know, the more networking you do, the more you know about your own business and what you're passionate about, you can truly and you have the power to influence your own outcomes.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to always be handed outcomes.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: You have a lot of power to influence them if you know the tips and tricks.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let's talk now a little bit about the human side of payments, which is really what the theme is all about.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: So behind every payment is a person, a business, a need, or a moment or a customer experience, as a lot of people call it.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: So, how do you think about the human side of payments in the work that you do?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: I do think about it a lot because as you probably picked out from my experience too, I come from product management world.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: While I'm in sales right now, I'm very, very much product management at heart.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to understand customer problems, how customers are using technology today.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I do that a lot by talking to customers, going to these conferences.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: And often I will pretend to be that person in the shoes using my own software.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: I will even just go see demos of other systems from the point of view as if I am the customer.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: I am in B2B payments and my father-in-law owns a small business.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I do draw a lot of parallels from how he makes his payments and how he feels about his payments that are outgoing and incoming.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that helps me truly shape up the way I think about our technology and what we should provide to our customers.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Trust is such a critical part of payments in fintech.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, how do you think companies can build and maintain trust as our industry becomes more automated and more technology driven?
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think trust is built from transparency.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: The more transparent we are, not only as the people representing a company or a product, but the product in itself is transparent on truly where the payment is and why is it the status with which it's at and where it's going and how long it's going to take?
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: So the more transparent the products the people become, I think trust is an outcome of that.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I truly believe transparency brings out the trust.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let's talk about some trends in the industry.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: What is one trend or change in payments that you believe will have the biggest impact on people or businesses over the next few years?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think just like we have humanoids doing work, I think payments are gonna start thinking on their own and routing themselves.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I do think we are moving towards a world where I think in the present or past, we offered our customers or the market solutions where they had choice and they could pick and choose what payments they want to make, how they want to make them.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think we're definitely moving in a direction where decisions will be made for customers and human will be in the loop.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely headed in an era where decisions will be made and payments are definitely going to act and think themselves.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm curious because I think one of the big use cases that I hear about for agentic commerce or kind of having agent-to-agent payments is on the B2B side, and you sit in that world.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: Just curious your thoughts.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds practical, but what is the human impact of that?
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, do you see like jobs going away?
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: Do you see just jobs changing because they're just doing different things?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you kind of mentioned earlier the software engineer isn't the software engineer of even two years ago.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: So just kind of curious about your thoughts on that.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think the jobs are going to evolve.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: And why shouldn't they?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Every human being evolves.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: Change is the only constant.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think that we should all be thinking that the jobs are gonna go away.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think we as humans need to do things that are more productive and do things where our mind is truly needed and build that competitive edge.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't think of it, Greg, as jobs going, although the market is showing that, and that is what's happening.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: But I hope and pray that if all of those people, including myself, maybe one day, we all need to think of ourselves as evolving human beings, and with the evolving times, we need to move on and build ourselves for future.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let's talk about mentorship impact and what's next.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, who's influenced you along the way, whether that's directly or indirectly, and what did you learn from them?
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: There is one person, Indra Nui.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: She was former CEO of PepsiCo.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: She's someone I absolutely admire and highly influenced by.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: I've read all of her books and seen all of her podcasts.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason why she resonates so much with me is because she also has the similar immigrant background and she came from the same place that I did and has done amazing things and was so driven.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I truly, truly appreciate where she came from and where she took PepsiCo as a company.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'll be remiss to not mention that there is another CEO that in payments world that I truly, truly admire and highly influenced from is Ajay Banga, MasterCard former CEO.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I truly respect him.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: Again, the reason why he resonates with me is because he also came from the same trajectory I did.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: And as humans, we do like to see similar things and definitely resonate a lot with both of them.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: So do you have some people do, some people don't, any kind of formal mentorship, or is it more casual, or maybe do you gain most of that from, like you said, the books and the podcasts?
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have formal mentorship.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: I do gain it a lot from books and you know, just reading about people and even seeing my own people in action.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I draw my work ethic from my mom, I draw my discipline and consistency from my dad.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm driven by the way my sister runs her home and her life and my husband, who's so hardworking.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I take inspiration from what's around me.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: What's some advice that you would give the next generation of women that are maybe just now entering payments in fintech?
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: One, payments is an amazing, amazing industry.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: My advice is twofold.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: One, don't take no for an answer.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: As women, just do what you want to do, be passionate, ask for what you want, and don't take no for an answer when your heart says the answer is yes.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: The other piece I will definitely say is that payments industry, especially in the US, is quite small.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's the same people you run into every conference, every place, they move from one job to the other.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's similar people.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: So networking is absolutely key.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: And that's my advice to young women entering the space.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Go for the networking and don't take no for an answer.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: I want to double-click on those because I think they're incredibly important.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that's kind of the value of doing this month is it really when we focus on kind of this next generation.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: So networking, what do you do to network?
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: Or for some people, it comes very natural.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: For some people, it's very challenging.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: So just your thoughts on how to do networking successfully and maybe what you've done.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think it starts from where you're at.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: So let's say if you're part of a team, go beyond your team.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: Let's say if I'm in product management, go set up a one-on-one with someone in operations, do skip level conversations with your CFO, with your CRO, and start internally.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: And you'll see that you learn so much with just the people that you're surrounded by.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then external networking is equally important.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: That comes from going to conferences and see if you can always be part of going to the traditional payments conferences, Money 2020, AFP, or many others that we have here in the US.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Try to go to them and talk to people and find a group of people you resonate with.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I think both internal and external networking is very important.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then you mentioned don't take no for an answer.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I think leading up to that, there's research out there that says women are much more unlikely to ask than men, no matter what that ask is in the business environment.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: So kind of curious on your thought.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: You say don't take no, but you have to ask before someone says yes or no.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: So kind of backing up from that, your thoughts on how do women get more comfortable asking when it's seemingly the research says they don't do it as often.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's because we've been told no too many times, which is why we don't ask as much.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm telling all of my women leaders and all of the women, any age group, ask and do not accept no for an answer when you're no the answer needs to be yes.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: And when you're asking for something, ask in a way that resonates.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: That is critical.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: The way you ask your question should make sense.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: What you're asking for should make sense.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Amplify your ask with business case.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: Amplify your ask with better negotiation tactics.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that is all something that I think we as women need to learn.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: And some are born negotiators, some have to acquire that skill.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: And that's okay.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: But I have front and center seen women ask for what they want and they don't take no for an answer and are passionate with what they want.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: If they want it, they will get it.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna ask a leadership question because you lead a team, and not everyone that I interview will lead a team.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to click on the leadership aspect.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: So if you could kind of describe your style of leadership, what would that be?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: Is that a question for me or my team?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think my style of leadership, hopefully my team would say this is I trust my people.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: One, I put a lot of due diligence when I hire.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Hiring is a key activity for me personally.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: One bad hire can just ruin it.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: And you can make mistakes, that's okay.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: But hiring is such an important activity we do as leaders, and spending good time in hiring good people for your team, hiring for things and areas that maybe I'm not good at, complimenting me, complimenting other team members is something that I see.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'll tell you, Greg, I don't always hire from the payments industry.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that is because I sometimes feel that they're gonna have the same blind spots as I do.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I need some diverse thinking sometimes and things that need to be thought out completely out of the box.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: And those are things I think of when I'm building a team, and my leadership style, as you asked, is hopefully driven by trust and transparency and a lot of ambition.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like if we have numbers, we're not gonna miss them.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna meet them and exceed them.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: Those are some mantras within our team, and one of them is also we don't take no for an answer when we know it needs to be yes.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: Those are some things that we within our team drive towards and everybody embodies those things that we talk about.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's interesting because I know the CEO founder very well of a company who does not hire from the industry.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: They do not at all, it's an ISO.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's not a huge company, but they're very, very successful, profitable, and they don't.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: They don't hire from the industry for that exact reason.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: They'd rather train them than have people come in with any kind of biases or anything like that.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: One final question on leadership, and this is sort of the reverse of managing a team, but kind of managing your manager.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: Your thoughts on how do you go about your day managing up, so to speak?
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's an interesting one.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think management up is just from my point of view, a lot of presentations, a lot of data-driven decisions.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think the number of decisions you make up top are probably less, but so consequential and so critical.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I always make sure that when I'm managing up, I'm providing my recommendations and suggestions with a lot of data, with market dynamics, with what the competitors are up to, with recommendation that doesn't just see today and tomorrow, but hopefully see five years.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a great way to manage up because everybody's trying to make better decisions and good decisions for the company.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: And when you arm your leadership with data that helps them make good decisions, I think is a great way to manage up.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let's wrap up the show with one final kind of fun question.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: What is one app, podcast, book, show, hobby, maybe favorite way to unwind that gives us a glimpse into who you are outside of work?
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: Favorite book is Untethered Soul by Michael Singer.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's a book about just learning your own self.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's more meditation, more spiritual.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's a beautiful book.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: I absolutely love it.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I will say, though, on a fun note, my favorite show is Ted Lasso coming up with a new season.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm pretty excited.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: I love that show.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think Ted Lasso is a great leadership lesson for all leaders.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I truly love that show.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think both of those, the book and the show, kind of do say a lot about who you are outside of work.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I really appreciate you sharing that.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a great way to wrap up the show.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I know your time's very, very valuable.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I do really appreciate you being here today.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Rick.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: And to all you listeners out there, I thank you for your time as well.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: And until the next episode.