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12 Countries in 12 Months with Sarah Aviram · Building the Best You

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to Building the Best You, a destination for you to reimagine what is possible in your life and then create it.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the show, everybody.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Gene Collins, and today we have another author on our show.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so excited.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: We have Sarah Abiram on the show, and she has a book.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: This is going to come out right after her book launches.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: So we're recording a little bit early, but her book's coming out in August.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I am so excited to talk to her.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: Her book is about her journey.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: And folks, she lived in 12 different countries over a 12-month time period.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: And that is just so cool.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: I am so excited to talk to you about your story and how you help people find courage and deal with change and learn how to have self-confidence in uncomfortable situations.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm sure there's plenty that we can talk about in addition to digging into your book.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: So, Sarah, welcome to the show.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, Jean.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: Happy to be here with you.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, and it's so nice to meet you.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I just found out when she jumped on that she lives in New York.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: So she lives super close to all of my family in New York, which is funny because I feel like you're like just down the road.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: And you really are, just down the road.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: So before we get into your book and everything, and before we get into your travels and everything you learned and how that has changed your life, I would love to know a little bit of background about you and where you grew up, what you did professionally, what life was like before you went on this journey.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: Sure, happy to share.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a born and bred New Yorker, so Queens, Long Island, Manhattan.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um lived here most of my life with some stints abroad, which we'll get into.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_03: My career was mainly in human resources.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_03: So some big consumer product companies like PepsiCo and Avon, always in an HR function, and some smaller high-tech companies as well.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_03: And this adventure came about when I was in my last role in corporate, which was in 2019, 2020s when I finished it.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_03: But at the end of 2018, I was the director of talent development at a New York-based tech company.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_03: So I was responsible for all the leadership, development, and training programs in the organization.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_03: And the CEO said to me, I'd love to hear your big ideas for 2019.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like, where's the world of talent going?
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_03: What should we look out for?
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_03: What are the trends?
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: How do we become competitive and get the best people to work for us and help them grow and develop?
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_03: So I started doing my research and this new trend of remote work started popping up in what I was reading.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_03: Now, this was pre-pandemic, so things were a little different back then.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I thought it was fascinating that more and more organizations were wanting to become fully distributed, meaning no office employees can be located anywhere.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_03: And on the flip side, more individuals were wanting the freedom and flexibility to work from anywhere.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I wondered if that was something that would work for my organization at the time.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_03: What would be the challenges of a setup like that?
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_03: What would be the opportunities?
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_03: How could, you know, could this open the door to us getting the best talent no matter where they were located?
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_03: So I proposed a kind of wild idea to the CEO that I should be the guinea pig of this new world of remote work.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I should work remotely for a year, but not just from my home, from around the world.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I should do this global field experiment, do my job remotely, and report back on the opportunities and challenges, but also essentially do a field research study.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_03: We were a global organization, so it was important we understand, you know, different cultures and environments and how people work differently in different places.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_03: So I pitched this idea to work from 12 countries in 12 months starting March 1st of 2019.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_03: And he shockingly said yes.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_03: So two months later, I sold my furniture, ended my apartment lease, and hopped on a one-way flight to Lima, Peru.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: I have goosebumps thinking about how crazy that is.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so first, like kudos to you for a thinking of such a brilliant idea, and B, asking for it because so often we don't get what we want in life if we don't ask.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: And that thinking back to what life was like before the pandemic, that really was like super edgy that you were even asking to do that.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: Where now we think about it, we're like, of course, everyone can work remotely.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, there's the debate of us even swinging the pendulum back to people being in an office and what that's doing to culture and you know, where do you find the middle ground?
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: But if you try to remember, if we all try to remember what it was like before the pandemic, that you were asking to do something like super radical at the time.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_03: Good for you.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_03: It was, it was.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_03: And and to your point of like asking for what you want, I just remember friends at the time were telling me, like, why would he ever let you do this?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like, why, how could you ask for this?
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like they were joking, like, if I asked, I'd be fired on the spot, you know?
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think really two things I think helped seal the deal with my CEO at the time.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: One is that I said, this will be no additional cost to the company.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_03: So just as I would pay my apartment rent in New York, I would pay where wherever I was living abroad.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, the other point was I said it at any time you think I'm not performing at my best or it's just not working out, I will come back.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_03: So I tried to propose it like a risk-free or reduce the risk of him saying yes to this.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that really helped.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember thinking at the time when he said yes, that even if the year ahead wasn't as fantastic as I thought it would be, but it was.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_03: I remember thinking, even if it's not, the fact that I asked for something so bold and I got it yes, just made me kind of feel on top of the world and think like, wow, what else is possible?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_03: You know, what else can I do if I just dream it and put it out in the world?
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: A hundred percent.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: So how did you pick the 12 countries you were going to go to?
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_03: So I actually found this program.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_03: Unfortunately, it doesn't exist anymore, although variations of it do, but it was a company at the time that organized a group of professionals to live and work remotely from different parts of the world.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_03: So they actually set up the itinerary and I joined it.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_03: So we were a group of 30 professionals.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, I would say 80% of it of us from the United States, 20% from other countries, a wide age range from age of 24 to 52, I would say, was our group.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_03: Pretty evenly split between men and women.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_03: I would say half were professionals like me that worked for an organization, and the other half were entrepreneurs or freelancers or had their own businesses.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_03: So we moved as a group, 30 of us, every month for 12 months together.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_03: And we lived together.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_03: We had co-working spaces together, and that company organized our living accommodations, our co-working spaces, our flight logistics.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_03: So it was pretty incredible that we could just kind of show up.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_03: All those details were taken care of, making sure we had our Wi-Fi, we had whatever we needed, and we could get our work done and also enjoy the cities that we were in.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: That is amazing.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I hope companies still exist that do that because that sounds so cool.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I know there's a whole huge nomad society right now.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: I've had guests come on that are like nomads, and I know people that do that.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: They spend, you know, two months in Bali and two months over here.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just such a cool way to get to experience not only the world, but really immerse yourself in the cultures of these destinations.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm curious, okay, how was that experience?
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm guessing it was pretty life-changing since you have a whole book out about it.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_03: What's kind of wild is I this is my second book about the experience.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_03: The first one was more of the professional part of it.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_03: So in 2020, I published a book called Remotivation that was the professional experience.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like, and that book is more of a how-to guide on being a remote worker and being fulfilled and motivated and performing at your best.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_03: Because one of the things I found on the professional side was so many of us thought that being able to work from anywhere would be the silver bullet to happiness at work and feeling motivated.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_03: And then we found ourselves working from the beach in Bali.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_03: Now, don't get us wrong, we're very grateful.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_03: But found that, you know, wow, I still feel kind of stuck or I feel unfulfilled, or I actually don't really like my work.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_03: And doing it from the beach makes it more tolerable, but not necessarily more enjoyable.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_03: So we kind of had to get to the root of like, well, what does make the difference then?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_03: So that's when I kind of put my HR ad on, did my focus groups and my research and created the frameworks about motivation as a remote worker.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what the first book was about.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I'll get to the second book, but I want to talk about the experience.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it was amazing.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_03: And it was just a very unique social experiment at the same time because 30 adults, you know, it's this kind of cross between like study abroad and your colleagues, you know, but you're working, you're not studying.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_03: And it was, it was just a really interesting dynamic because you were kind of like colleagues, right?
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_03: You could bounce ideas off each other and brainstorm, but without any of the politics of you know, the office life hanging over you, because you didn't actually work with any of them.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_03: So you could really be honest about what you were thinking or feeling and get advice without worrying anyone would tell anyone else, you know, that kind of thing.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_03: But also we would go out together and we would, you know, deal with uh, you know, food poisoning while you're traveling and all the things that come with being outside your home.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_03: And so it was a very sort of intense uh bonding that happened with our group.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I think we got very lucky that there wasn't a lot of drama and everyone really understood, you know, we're in this together for a year, so let's be on our best behavior.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but we had a lot of fun.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_03: Don't sleep with everybody the first week.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_03: No, everyone was very conscious of like, let's not spoil this.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_03: Let's find some boundaries.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_03: I love it.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_03: What was wild about this experience is that it started March 1st of 2019 and it ended March 1st of 2020.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_03: So I come home as planned March 1st of 2020.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_03: I go back into my office for a week, and then I'm told to work from home like everyone else because of the global pandemic.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_03: And I had been writing this first book about remote work, and suddenly the whole world went remote.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_03: And so the timing was just kind of wild.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_03: And eventually I went off and I started to help other organizations, not just the one I worked for, to figure out how to manage through this time.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_03: So it was interesting for sure.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: And timely.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: But I would have to think for you like you're doing remote work in these other countries, but you're with a group of people.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: That is very different from COVID environment concept of remote work.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so I would think that brings not only to organizations, but also to you personally a huge, like big boulder.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, everybody had the boulder, but I would think you even more so because you've been working remotely in such a different environment.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was, it was like a shock.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_03: It was like, yes, I was used to working remotely, but not by myself, you know, in a shoebox-sized apartment in New York City, you know?
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_03: So it was totally different.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_03: It was really challenging.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I and I realized how important community is and how important that camaraderie is.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_03: And that everyone works differently.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_03: Some people get a lot more done at home, they're more productive, they can take the kids to school, they can do laundry in between meetings, and that's amazing.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_03: And for other people, it's extremely lonely and they don't get to interact.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_03: They're much more extroverted, they need that interaction.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_03: They actually need someone hovering over them a bit to making sure they get work done.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_03: So it's it's also about knowing yourself and how you work best.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and I would also think since you come from an HR background, your brain is naturally thinking about company culture and how do you create culture in different definitions of what remote working looks like?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: I would think you could have a whole book on just that.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, for sure.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_03: For sure.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's very different uh in different organizations, different functions.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_03: If you're in a client-facing function, if you're in a back-end function, for sure.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so what made you decide to come out with book number two, which is not the business side of it?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_03: So the past six years or so, I was doing keynote talks, speaking engagements.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_03: I started my own business.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_03: I left the corporate world.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_03: I was talking about remote work, but really what I was talking about was how do we ensure our employees are motivated and fulfilled, are performing at their best.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I had was talking about it in this new lens of remote work on top of it.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_03: And as the world changed, as you said, as it kind of remote became the norm, less companies needed support on this, or we went to a hybrid type of model.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_03: I started to talk more about how do we keep people motivated and fulfilled during times of constant change when things are just changing all the time, which is kind of what the world is like now.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I kind of went back to my roots because a lot of what I did in my academic experience, I have an MBA specializing in change management professionally in HR, I did a lot of you know, change management initiatives where like there's a merger, there's an acquisition, we have to figure out how to help help people manage through those times.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_03: So I took the principles of change management and to bring them to life and in my keynote talks and to help companies understand what good change management looks like in action.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_03: I I've I of course I started with sort of case studies of other organizations that have done it well.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_03: But what I was realizing is people have heard these case studies before.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_03: And when they attend a conference or a keynote talk or a workshop, they kind of want to be taken out of their day-to-day.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_03: They want to hear something they haven't heard before.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I thought to myself, well, I've got all these incredible travel stories, but they seemed at first unrelated to this professional hat I had on about managing through change.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_03: But then I felt like, no, they're actually so connected because to me, travel is like a concentrated period of change.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_03: Everything is different.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_03: Your routines, the food you're eating, the languages you might be hearing, the culture, your routines, even if you're just in a different state, not a different country, so much is different.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_03: And we can learn a lot about how we manage through uncertainty, how we can become more adaptable, what putting ourselves in a different environment tests us, like regarding our identity or a sense of belonging or our feelings of trust and vulnerability.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I felt like, wow, I actually have so many stories that drive home the point, maybe even better than some financial services case study that is going to bore people to death.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_03: So as I started incorporating my travel stories into my talks, I found that the stories were really resonating.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_03: And then in the talk, I could say, and now here's a framework and here's how to apply it.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_03: And always in a QA at the end of a session, people would say, Which countries did you go to?
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_03: And which was your favorite?
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_03: So I said, you know what?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_03: I think I have a second book in me that's just the personal stories.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_03: No frameworks, no how-tos, no action items.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_03: Those are in the keynote talk.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_03: But like I wanted just the book to be an enjoyable book of stories.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_03: So it's called The Scenic Route, following my inner compass across 12 countries in 12 months.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_03: And it's one story from each of the 12 countries with a deep self-reflection, but not a sort of action item for each one.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone can learn through your journey.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: People love stories, and that's honestly what makes a good keynote is having a story that people can walk away and remember that story and share that story with somebody else.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: That's what people remember from a keynote, honestly, regurgitating information they can pull from ChatGPT and summarize, just doesn't do it anymore.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: Not anymore.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: It did.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: It used to, but it doesn't anymore.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_02: So the human element of your talks, like I know you did a TED Talk, and so all of that is what people want to hear and learn from because you did something that most people will probably never have the opportunity to do, even in any scale at all.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like most people don't even have the opportunity to go away for one month and work remotely for a month.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: So you doing it for 12 countries for 12 months is just, you know, it's like, I don't even want to say it's like skydiving.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: More people can skydive than can do that.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: That's amazing.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_03: My hope is that even if someone has never done that, that they say, you know, I've never been there or done that, but I felt that.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_03: I felt that emotion.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_03: And that they can kind of pull from it the lesson through the emotion, not from having had the shared experience.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's what I hope through the keynote talks and the stories that really connect with people.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: So is there a story in the book that's a favorite of yours?
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I do have some favorites.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_03: There's one in particular that I really, I really liked a lot.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_03: So when I was writing my Thailand chapter, for each of the stories in my book in general, I tried to focus on one event or one day or one experience.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's not, you know, a book about every single day of the month.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_03: So I had two really interesting experiences happen in Thailand, and I thought, oh, which one should I choose to write about?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_03: Because they're totally different.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_03: They're not related.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_03: So I thought, let me just write both and then I'll I'll pick the one that's more interesting.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_03: So the first one I wrote was about learning how to meditate in a monastery by a Buddhist monk.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_03: And we it was a fascinating experience.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_03: We're in this Buddhist monk university and we're and we're uh learning meditation.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_03: And what the monk taught us was that and this is what Buddhists believe, that the only way to peace and kind of feeling a sense of freedom and liberation is to release attachment to your identity, to your ego, to titles.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that's the way you'll get to peace, kind of releasing attachment.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_03: And my other experience in in Thailand, in Shang Mai, which is where we were based for a month, was going to a Lady Boy drag show.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_03: So this is a totally different experience.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_03: Totally different.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_03: And we got a chance to interview some of these women in advance and talk to them about what their life is like living there and what are their challenges and their struggles and what are they excited about.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: And we just got a lot of insight into what their lives are like.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_03: And what they I learned from them was that the path to freedom and liberation and peace is claiming your identity boldly and showing people who you are and not being shy to do so.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, oh my gosh, these are two totally different lessons.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_03: But I thought, wait a second, maybe they're not.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_03: They're both about getting to the same place, but just different paths to get there.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_03: And that's also why part of why like I chose the title, The Cenagrout, because like there's just many ways to get to where you want to go.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_03: And there isn't one destination either.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_03: But I decided to actually include both of those stories into the chapter and show how they actually taught me that you are allowed to claim your identity or release your identity at any moment, at any time, at different parts of your life.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like no one, there's no roadmap, no one can tell you how to do it.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_03: And it kind of, and I write that it left me with two questions that maybe I didn't know the answers to, but I'm going to keep asking myself.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_03: And the two questions were, you know, who am I when I don't have to be anyone or anything, like how the monks taught me.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_03: And the other question is, who am I when I allow myself to be everything like the lady boys taught me?
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_03: And so I just thought, like, those are such powerful questions.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I get to sit with those and I get to decide what they are at any given moment in my life, and the answers might change or might not come in the moment, and that's okay.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: And that is okay.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_02: And the beauty of that is that you're showing that just like the scenic route, like there's no right and there's no wrong.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: And one day you might go one way and another day you might go another way.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so sometimes I love those two stories because sometimes what you might need to do is to release the attachment to your identity in order to go to the next town or the next route or the next chapter of your life.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: But then other times you might have to figure out what you want your identity to be.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: And doing that work can help drive you into a new chapter, a new road, a new path, a new life.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I love how those are actually completely opposite ways of viewing the same thing, but yet they can totally complement each other as well.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: Well said.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's cool.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: That is so cool.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: That is so.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: What's the one thing you think changed the most about you from that journey?
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I think this goes a bit to my subtitle, which is about following my inner compass, and that understanding that like my intuition is pretty strong.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I think all of us have a strong intuition, but sometimes we don't listen to it or we see what other people are doing, or there's a pressure, or there's external expectations.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_03: And so we ask for advice and we wonder what we should do.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_03: And we look at examples of other people, and sometimes our gut or intuition is telling us what's right for us.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_03: And um and so it was just the year was a reminder of that for me because one question I struggled a lot with that year was Am I really going to go back to my old life after this experience?
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_03: Like, am I gonna go back to an office five days a week, to a corporate job?
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I was always someone who really valued climbing the corporate ladder and, you know, trying to get to the corner office and the certain title and the certain salary and like living in New York City and living a certain lifestyle.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_03: And it just, I didn't really know a different way.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I had the opportunity to get exposure to people who were living really different types of lives that were very happy and defined success in different ways.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_03: And it was just eye-opening to think about, you know, how do I want to live my life when I get back home?
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_03: What do I want to keep?
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_03: What do I want to change?
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_03: What routines from abroad do I want to bring back with me?
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_03: Which don't I?
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_03: You know, all those kinds of things.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_03: So I think it was very eye-opening from a lifestyle design perspective.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: I would imagine it has changed so much because I would think every country you go to, you're there long enough that you absorb a little bit of their culture and a little bit of their routines and a little bit of, you know, oh, I really like that food, or oh, I really like this practice, or oh, I love that we take a nap from two to four every day, or whatever it is.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: Every country has their uniqueness, and whether it be from cuisine to lifestyle to how they dine, even the decor and the architecture of how they live and how they work is so different in every country.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think it's so cool to be exposed to all of that and then be able to say for yourself okay, what what is can become more permanent for you?
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: So when you came back, did you move somewhere that you probably would have never lived in before?
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like a different building, different part of town, different style where you probably wouldn't have chosen that before.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's funny, I actually lived in Mexico City for two years after this.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a place that's not totally unfamiliar to me.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_03: I I didn't I've been there many times, but I'm not really living there for an extended period of time.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_03: So that was a change of lifestyle.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I think through that experience, as much as I loved it, I also realized like I do want to be closer to where my family is located, which is in the New York area.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_03: And so that was important to me uh to come back.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_03: And by that time, Mexico City really also helped me start my own business.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_03: So did it in a place where I had less of the rat race of New York City.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_03: So I was able to kind of build it up and then come back to New York feeling, you know, secure that I could have the life I want to live here and be closer to my family.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's such a beautiful story.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: Have you gone back to any of the 12 countries since?
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_03: Besides Mexico, I have not yet.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's interesting because some of them are definitely places I I plan to go back to at some point.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_03: And there's a few that I remember thinking, like, I could live here.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_03: You know, some are great to visit, you know, some places just I couldn't see myself living.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_03: I do think New York is probably my forever home, but I'm certainly open to maybe some stents abroad in the future.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: Sure, sure.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you oh, I feel like you almost get the bug to like explore because you're also challenging your brain in different ways by getting exposed to different cultures and seeing different things.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: So, of the 30 people that were in your group, I'm just so curious.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's sort of like Melrose Place from back in the day.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: How many of those people do you still talk to?
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's so funny that you mentioned Melrose Place because I talk about that in my book in the scene of crowd.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_03: I say, like, oh, you do?
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_03: Because it feels like a Melrose Place kind of thing, because they're adults.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_03: So yes.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_03: Specifically, one month in Mexico, uh, half of us lived in the same building because sometimes we're we were spread out all over cities.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_03: But in that case, we did and we kind of left our doors open.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_03: People come in and out.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like it was that's that's why I compare it to Melrose Place.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_03: I'm in touch with a lot of them.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_03: So we have like a group chat, like on WhatsApp.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_03: So anyone's birthday, funny things that happen, especially now with my book coming up.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone's super excited because they're all mentioned in it at some point.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um great.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_03: But like two of my closest friends in life are from that trip.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's amazing.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_03: And we've all visited each other.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_03: Some, you know, we all live in different states or different countries.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_03: We've visited each other, we've had reunions, and a couple of them live in New York where I am.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_03: So it's so nice to get together often.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_03: And um, yeah, I really made some lifelong friends from that trip.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: Which is amazing.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: And it's so cool because it's you hear about it in college, it's like the study abroad, and I didn't get to do it, and I'm so jealous of anyone who does.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: But you don't hear about that in adult life very often.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: And what an incredibly life-changing experience at a time in life where you know more about yourself.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I think your lessons can be so much deeper and so much more impactful.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I am curious, you talk a bunch on your website, and I'm sure it's in the book, about self-trust and learning how to trust yourself.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: And you mentioned intuition.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_02: So, for people who are listening who think, like, I don't even know how to tap into my intuition, I don't even know how to trust myself.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: Based on your journey and your experience and how much you had to trust yourself as you had to deal with change constantly in traveling, what advice might you have for them?
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_03: I would say, like, when that voice in your head is like full of shoulds, like I should go to this, or I should, I should go for that promotion, or I should go to that party.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_03: Like, of course, there's obligations in life and there's things you do to kind of keep the peace with certain people or whatever.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_03: But I would challenge yourself about why you're saying should versus I want or I get to, or I can't wait to.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_03: And if you were to replace the should with any of those, would the sentence still make sense to you or feel good to you?
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_03: And if not, really think about if that's really what you want to do, or it's sort of old programs, old expectations that you have or others have had of you, or you're trying to fulfill a dream you had in your 20s that doesn't exist in your 40s anymore.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_03: And that's okay.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_03: And it's okay for your dreams to change and your goals for your life to change.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_03: And what makes a beautiful, meaningful, successful life is different for every person.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_03: And also remembering, you know, not everyone you see that has a the life that you thought you wanted is is as happy as you think they are.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_03: So just doing what's best for you is probably your best bet.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: Not comparing yourself to others is such an important trait and something to learn because what people project and show you on the outside is does not necessarily reflect what's going on in the inside in their life at all in any way.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: And you just never know.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: You don't know.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: It might, but it also might not at the same time.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: Do you feel like this experience has helped you have a different relationship with fear?
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_03: I do.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_03: I think there's this it's interesting.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_03: I I think a a lot of my life, but this this experience especially, the sort of like fear of rejection of anything in life, really.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I said earlier that, you know, the fact that my CEO said yes to this, I just felt on top of the world, right?
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_03: Because I really thought like the worst thing you can say is no.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'm coming in with a smart business case, I'm making my points, I'm bringing my research and my data.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm not coming in blindly or ignorant and saying, I want to travel the world, can I do it?
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it was very different conversation.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_03: And I think like taking chances on myself and and and saying it out loud because we're so afraid to tell people our big dreams, because sometimes their reactions are based on their own experience of what they would or wouldn't do.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_03: And it's also good to know who who you know is gonna root for you no matter what, and who is gonna be uncomfortable because you changing means they're not changing and they don't want to see like that mirror put up to themselves.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_03: So, because there were definitely people in my life that were saying, like, wow, oh my God, you should totally ask, go for it.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I could never do it, but you should do it, and that's okay.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_03: But the ones that were like making you feel silly for even thinking it was possible, that I didn't like, you know.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_03: And that happens.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, that happens.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_03: But I just I just think remembering that like the worst thing that can happen is it doesn't work, and that's okay.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_03: You're you're like you're just where you are now, but nothing, you're not, you're no worse off.
• 31:25
  unknown: Yeah.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_03: I think just getting comfortable with that.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: And you will have learned something if you look at everything as there will be a lesson, there you will have learned something along the way, then it makes it less scary to take a chance and to ask.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're not going to advocate for yourself or your dreams or your wishes, no one else is going to do it for you.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: So you have to get comfortable with advocating for yourself.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_02: So what is on your bucket list now, both personally and professionally?
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I gotta practice what I preach and share that my goal is to make as much of an impact as I can with this book to get it in front of as many people as possible.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm gonna, I'm gonna say it.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_03: I think this book could be a TV show or a movie one day.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm just putting it out in the universe.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_03: Just for that.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_03: Netflix, are you listening?
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: A hundred.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: I am so with you.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: A hundred percent.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_02: This is like a great, is they can expand the, you know, like, oh, I see it.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: You can totally see it.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_03: 30 strangers that travel the world together for a year, 12 countries.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's an amazing story.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_03: So many real stories in each of us and how we got there and and our backgrounds, you know, it's a lot of angles here.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, there's so much in a series of that where you can dig into, and you can, if you do it as a series versus a movie, you have a chance to have character development, which all of you brought to the table in the experience.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: But in a book, you don't have enough time to like dig into all of that.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: But in a series, you actually can, you can go so much deeper into the plot line and the storyline of each of those characters as they brought them to the table for that year experience.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: And a year is a long time.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: That's not just a short period of time.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_02: Did you come back to the United States at all?
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I did.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_03: I did come back for a wedding and uh to see my family, yes.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: I just wasn't sure if you didn't come back at all for a whole which would which is also a lot.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: So what's on your bucket list then personally?
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what does someone like you do if you've already been both countries in 12 months with 30 strangers?
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what do you personally do now?
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's so funny because I feel like now that I'm I've left the corporate world and I'm doing my own thing, that my personal and professional goals are very much mixed.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_03: Because I'm doing the work that I love and I'm passionate about on a personal level.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like so it it kind of like I don't see the difference as much as I used to, where it was like, oh, professional goal, become a vice president and then personal goal, learn how to do whatever, like speak a language, you know.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I just I find them very connected these days.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_03: But besides turning this book into a movie and getting the word out, um, I think just, you know, enjoying the lifestyle I'm creating in New York and being able to like do all the things I love.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_03: Like New York's the best city for culture and the arts and theater, and just like getting the chance to just enjoy and take advantage of all the city has to offer are just like my kind of daily, my daily, weekly goals.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, sure.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and it also feels to me like you are very living a very present lifestyle and a very yes lifestyle of saying yes to the things that you want to do and the experiences that you want to do, and yet no to the things that you don't, because you're really crafting and developing a life that is best suited for you.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_02: And also becoming an entrepreneur is allowing that in an even greater forum.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that is like the biggest journey of self-development and learning ever.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like things I'm learning how to do from, you know, building websites to SEO optimization to all these things I never thought.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm constantly learning and growing through my professional work.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: A hundred percent.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_02: I was on a call this morning and a guy said to me, he goes, you know, the greatest personal development work there is is becoming an entrepreneur.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: Not only are you constantly learning from a business perspective, but you're constantly challenging your inner self.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_02: And this just it's constantly, whether it be fear or imposter syndrome, or what's your worth, or how do you balance your time, time management?
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: Everything is becoming an entrepreneur is truly one of the greatest challenges there is in life.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_02: For sure.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, kudos to you.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_02: All right, before we run out of time, is there anything that I didn't ask you about the book or about your journey or about how you help other people outside of your keynotes and being a leadership coach?
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: Did I miss anything that we want to make sure we cover off on or we want to summarize?
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_03: I really think you've you've hit on all of it.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_03: I would say, like if people want to hear more of the stories and learn more about what travel can teach us about managing through change and becoming more adaptable to go to these scenic routebook.com.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um, there's a lot of info there.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I think the book would be a great uh book for your book club.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_03: So if any of you are in book clubs, I have book club bundles that involve me actually zooming into your book club meeting.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_03: So you can ask me anything and behind the scenes stuff.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_03: So like I have some fun bonuses and bundles that are all on that website that we can link to.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_02: That is so fun.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: And we will put that in the show notes.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I love when authors do that because I think it humanizes you by be you being willing to get out and talk to people.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, honestly, everything is referral and word of mouth in life now.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_02: And that's really how businesses grow, how brands get out there, how books get picked up is just people talking about it.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so your willingness to do that with different people and put yourself in that position and give of your time to do that, to share your lessons is really it that will take off.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so excited for you.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so before we go, obviously we have your book, it'll be in the show notes.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: But I love to ask my guests if there's a book they would recommend to the listeners, book or a book.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes people can't narrow it down to one, that has impacted you that you think is something that, you know, everyone should really read.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_03: The book that I've always loved for so long, um, it's been out for a while.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_03: I actually don't know exactly when it came out, but it's um Outliers by Malcolm Ladwell.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_03: And it's really about what makes successful people successful.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_03: And there's so many different examples and stories in there from professional athletes to uh musicians to computer engineers.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I just find it really fascinating how much of it is luck and the right time and right place, and of course, talent and hard work and how it's really a combination of all those factors, but also how you could potentially set yourself up for that kind of success in your life, whatever that means to you.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_03: So I always recommend that book.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_03: That is a great one too.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I love that book.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: We will put that in the show notes also.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Sarah, thank you so much for coming on.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_02: Your story is so exciting.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_02: I can't wait to read it.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's coming out August 18th.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: This is going to come out right after that.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_02: So everybody can go to your website, they can buy it, they can get the book bundle, they can have you on their book group.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's so great.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_02: We will share this on Instagram as well.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_02: And what a fascinating story.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: I can't wait to read it.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you for taking the time to share it with us, and we will definitely stay connected.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Gene.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: I really appreciate it.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: I loved your questions.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, thank you.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: All right, have a great afternoon too.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for joining us for this week's episode of Building the Best You.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: If you are ready to take a deeper dive into transforming your life, check out my Empowerment Fundamentals course on my website, houseofgermar.com.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, and I will see you next week with another inspiring guest.