Latest / The Price of Music / How do songwriters *really* earn money (and which bands moonlight as cover bands)?; Spotify under investigation; Netflix K-Pop animation artists; and Ozzy Osbourne's chimpanzee art

Transcript

How do songwriters *really* earn money (and which bands moonlight as cover bands)?; Spotify under investigation; Netflix K-Pop animation artists; and Ozzy Osbourne's chimpanzee art · The Price of Music

• 0:07
  Hello and welcome to The Price of Music, brought to you by
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  Music Ally, the show that's fascinated by the fun and games
• 0:13
  and finances of the music world as explained each week by me,
• 0:17
  Steve Lamac and him, Stuart Dredge.
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  This LED us off into a voyage through the pros and cons of AI
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  last week, but we're going to try it again anyway.
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  Stuart starts us off with a big figure.
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  Give us your big number for this week.
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  OK, it's a human number. This week, it's a human number.
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  The number is 1000. I mean, that's not, that's not
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  the biggest. I was expecting something more
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  eye watering than that. All right, we'll take it though.
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  Why is the figure 1000 important this week?
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  OK, it's how many days Ed Sheeran's Shape of You has been
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  top of an Apple Music chart somewhere in the world.
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  And this came out. This came out.
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  It's a slightly weird step because Apple Music has just
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  turned 10 years old and used that as a chance to kind of say
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  celebrate and say, wow, look, here's some numbers, but not
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  numbers you want, which is like how many streams it done?
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  That would be kind of interesting.
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  So again, this one is like, you know, it's done in 1000 days.
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  But Shape of You is the biggest, the most streamed song over that
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  first teenage Apple Music. He beat the weekend blinding
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  lights and Drake's God's plan to the top.
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  And it just made me think it's a moment of thinking, right, This
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  is this is like the biggest streaming hit of this area.
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  Probably shape of you all these songs.
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  And he maybe wants to go digging for numbers elsewhere that Apple
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  didn't provide right. So I've been, I've been going
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  down that rabbit. Hole this week so give us some
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  numbers. So do we know so shape of you?
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  It doesn't actually say how so how many streams has shape of
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  you had? It doesn't tell you.
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  Not Apple Music, didn't know they they chose to give that
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  start instead but other peoples opposed.
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  So I I started on YouTube which is always a good place to start
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  a rabbit hole. On YouTube, Shape of You's
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  official video has 6.5 billion views.
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  See. That's a big figure.
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  That is a. Big.
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  I should have put that one in there.
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  That's less lesson notes. Big figures come in billions,
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  that is. I think that is impressive.
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  All right, OK. And also that the song came out
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  in 2017, but 557 million of those views came in the last
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  year, which is kind of one of the points here about the
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  biggest streaming hits is they really do carry on and on.
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  And it's actually the seventh biggest video ever on YouTube,
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  which is why I'm going to turn Pub Quiz bore again and ask you,
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  can you guess any of the top the six YouTube videos that are
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  bigger than Ed Sheeran's Shape of You?
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  They're all music videos. Yeah.
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  The problem with this is because you would naturally say of if
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  you were from a certain era, something like Thriller, maybe,
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  you know, it's going to be a Michael J or Bohemian Rhapsody.
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  But I'm presuming though that probably the rest of them are
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  far more contemporary. Are they?
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  They are. That's there's a one word for
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  it, Yeah. So in terms of traditional music
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  stuff, there's Wiz Khalifa's See You Again has six, 6.7 billion
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  views. Despacito by Luis Fonsi, the big
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  sort of Latin American hit that's got 8.7 billion views.
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  There's three nursery rhyme songs in the top 6.
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  Like there's a version of Wheels on the Bus that has 7.6 billion
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  views on YouTube, which is a testament to how so many parents
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  put YouTube on for their kids. And then just on repeat and
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  Wheels on the Bus, but the top one and and that theme was going
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  the very, very top music. I think you might notice deep
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  down, like what's the most popular music song that children
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  like on YouTube ever? That children like, no, I'm not
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  going to get this. Put me out of the misery.
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  Baby Shark, 16 billion views and that that, listeners, is your
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  earworm for the rest of the week.
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  And I'm so sorry, yes. You're welcome.
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  Yeah, but then I looked on, but then I went back to adult music
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  and and on Spotify, you can see their stats publicly and their
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  shape of you's got 4.45 billion streams on Spotify.
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  And using this royalty calculators online from a
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  company called Manats, that would be if all those streams
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  are in the US, that would be about 21.2 million dollars in
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  royalties, right? And all those streams work in
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  the US, It will be less than that.
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  But that gives you a sense of the scale of like one of the
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  biggest hits of the streaming era.
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  You're talking kind of certainly more than ten, $15 million of
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  royalties over its lifetime, right?
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  And it's still going strong. Yeah, well, it turns out that
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  1000 was a pretty good figure to pick.
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  Let's do our three big news stories of the week, actual news
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  stories, starting with this. A new report has been asking
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  songwriters how they earn their money and what their plans are
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  for the year ahead. Who's put the report together
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  and who have they been talking to?
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  Yeah. So this is a company called
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  Media Research. We've talked about a few times.
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  They often put reports out about the industry size and what's
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  happening, but this is the second year they've actually
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  done a big survey of songwriters.
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  They talk to 776 songwriters of all levels.
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  Like it was like an open response survey.
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  So some of them are probably big songwriters, but most of them, I
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  would say, are kind of working, you know, low down the pyramid.
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  And yeah, I suppose the 2 two key findings were, one was that
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  people saying they're struggling to earn a meaningful income,
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  which is obviously not a great thing.
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  But it also found like that some of them are kind of leaving
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  money that they should be earning.
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  So I think so 61% aren't signed up to a mechanical right to
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  collecting society, which is one of the sort of base.
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  So like it's sort of found that people were saying that they
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  were struggling to earn money, but a lot of them weren't signed
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  up to a thing that could be bringing in more money.
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  So that was one of. Its so the, so the, so the
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  problem is, is they, they don't have the information or that no
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  one's cheated them. They've just, they've picked up
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  a guitar or whatever and they've made some songs, but they, they
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  don't have the, the tools necessary in some cases, because
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  we should explain sort of just for people who may be new to
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  this. So royal royal collects royalty
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  collecting. Collecting societies will chase
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  the money that you are owed from things like radio play or live
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  performances. Yeah, and that's it.
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  And there's there's multiple collection sites of different
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  parts of the music. And I think, yeah, people in the
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  industry assume that of course everyone who writes songs will
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  be signed up to all The Reg necessary things to get all the
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  money due to them. And this survey kind of found
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  that actually maybe not. We can't take that for granted.
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  And I think actually when we talk to collecting societies,
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  they they accept this too. They spend quite a lot of time
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  and thought into how can we make sure people know they should
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  sign up and how they sign up. The other thing it found was
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  that there's a lot of songwriters who are signed up to
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  it, called some creator marketplaces.
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  It's places like Fiver with two hours on the end and sound
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  better, like places where you can go and say I'm a songwriter
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  available for hire and people can come and hire you.
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  And basically I want to write some songs for me.
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  And those have apparently become popular.
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  And apparently people who songwriters using those are
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  earning more money and having more music released than the
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  average songwriters. So this seems like quite a
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  positive thing. You know, people could, if
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  you're a songwriter, you could go and look at these places and
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  see if they can bring in work for you.
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  So, so it's literally just a place where what you, what would
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  you do? Post an example of your work?
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  Somebody thinks, yeah, that's the sort of song I'd like to
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  sing. Can you?
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  Can you write me a song? Is that how?
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  Well, that's it. So sound better is quite a
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  famous one where it's, it's actually all kinds of works.
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  It's mastering and mixing engineers and songwriters and
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  producers basically have their profile there and saying I am
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  available for work. And then if you are looking to
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  work with someone, you can go there.
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  So those, those kind of places where I guess it's the, the, the
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  lesson is you can get yourself out there on some of these
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  online platforms, say I am good and available.
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  And, and, but then the other thing, the other thing I thought
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  was interesting was so this survey found that I think one in
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  five songwriters say building their social media brand is a
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  priority for them this year, which I guess the traditional,
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  and this is maybe this is a stereotype that's probably
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  wrong, but you think of songwriters as being like pure
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  songwriters who don't also perform.
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  You think of them as being in the background, don't you?
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  They may be the artists have the public profile and the
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  songwriter just writing the song, but that's changing.
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  I think song was saying, I need to have a profile.
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  People need to know who I am and I need to be honest.
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  So that's, that's happening. But then most of them have quite
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  a negative feeling about social media as well.
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  They're kind of like they're not, they're not really happy
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  doing it, but they feel they should.
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  So that is, I guess a lot of musicians may may, that may
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  resign with them as well. I think that's the thing like,
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  you know, you should be doing these things and putting
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  yourself out there. But it does.
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  It can come with baggage and it can come with stress.
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  Yeah, I think it also means that the the whole thing, it's one of
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  those having a presence on social media is one of those
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  things that people now say, well, you've got to have a
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  presence on social media. So people think, well, I'll
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  spend a lot of time on social media then, because that
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  apparently is what you do. It's just an assumed piece of
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  wisdom now, isn't it, that a big social media profile will help
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  your career? And that is probably true for
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  quite a lot of people. But at the same time, does
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  should it be the one thing you're concentrating on when
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  there are other ways of maybe going around, you know, around
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  the wall of anonymity to to success?
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  And it can feel like pressure as well.
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  But that again, this survey found that that that that
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  songwriters who do post on social media, who do make that
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  thing, they tend to earn more money and have more music
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  release than the average songwriter, which I mean, that
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  could be a function of those people are more active around
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  their career. So, you know, it might be, it
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  might be, it's not social media necessarily making them more
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  money. It's the fact that they're doing
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  everything quite thoughtfully. But yeah, it's but it was kind
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  of it was a mix really. It was it's saying that, OK,
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  songwriters do a lot of songwriters do feel they're
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  struggling. And that's partly to do with
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  things like streaming royalties. It's not just that, but it also
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  said there are these opportunities you can go and get
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  the money that's due to you if you sign up to the right
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  collective societies and you can do stuff online to put yourself
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  out there to get more work in. So kind of, you know,
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  encouragement as well as as well as worrying.
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  I mean, interestingly, there was another of this week's talking
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  points which sort of spins off from this was that post by the
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  band Field Music, who were responding to a comment that
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  they'd received about the fact that to subsidise their meagre
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  earnings as an art pop band, that members of the band
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  applying Geeks as a Doors tribute act.
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  Did you see that story? I did, yeah.
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  And it's weird because Phil has gone away from the world because
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  I think they, at some point, they followed me on Twitter.
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  We followed each other back in the day.
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  I was like, oh, they, they and they seem very nice.
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  But yeah, they this, this kind of came out.
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  I think they mentioned it just in their Facebook saying we're
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  doing these Doors tribute bad gigs.
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  And I think a fan questioned it and I think quite politely said,
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  you know, well, why? Why would you do this when you
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  could be doing your own stuff? And they said basically, yeah,
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  we need the money. I think that the phrase they
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  used was doing maybe 1 show a month as the Doors.
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  We can fill a hole in our dire finances.
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  I think there's sorry, but I think there's a really
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  interesting point here that a lot of fans, music fans outside
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  the music industry and I'm not having a public anyone at all,
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  but there are there are still I think there's loads, loads of
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  people and why would they know? But that probably who don't
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  recognise, you know, the financial dynamics of what it is
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  actually like trying to survive as a musician these days.
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  You know, there is an assumption certainly even failed music who
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  you know, they're they're well known in our field, aren't they?
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  Certainly, you know, around six music in the world I live in,
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  people know who field music are and they're they're pretty well
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  known. They're quite a well established
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  band, you know, and I think, but I think then the assumption is
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  so because they have a certain profile and we know who they are
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  and they've had lots of records out that they must be doing OK.
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  Whereas, you know, the reality is even say even a group like
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  Field Music with a raft of albums and critical acclaimed
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  Field Music are very that's living hands.
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  You know, they have this hand to mouth existence and, and, and
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  they're not the only ones. And in fact, there'll be higher
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  profile artists who are also in the same boat.
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  I mean, I won't name names, but I know Mercury Prize nominees
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  who are skint and are constantly thinking about where the next
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  paycheck is coming from. So that's that's the point that
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  comes out of this, I think. Yeah, and I think film is, I
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  mean, they, they, I went looking, they have 19,000
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  listeners on Spotify. And even when the other
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  platforms worked in the you can't live off that money.
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  And that that's but it wasn't they talked in this post.
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  They were very, very open. And I think it's really good
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  what they've done because they've said we're not ashamed.
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  We and also they say we love the doors.
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  You know, this is fun. It's not we're not doing, we're
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  not doing this like grim faced hating for any of it.
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  You know, we love we grew up on this music.
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  So but they talked about, so they talked about two
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  challenges. So one, they said we haven't got
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  an indie dance floor hit and without that you can't do the
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  Heritage circuit, which you may know more than me, but it seems
• 12:44
  like you need at least the one big song to get onto those gigs
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  at Butlins, I guess, and get those festival slots.
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  Three would be good, wouldn't it?
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  3 Or who's who's doing some gigs at the moment?
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  Somebody like Hard Fire? Hard fire, yeah. 33 big hits and
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  you know, a welter of fans because I mean, hard Fire did 5
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  bricks and academies back in the day.
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  So yeah, 3, three hits and a live following and yes, you
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  will, you will now. And it comes around in cycles,
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  doesn't it? But seems like we're going
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  through the 20 year cycle at the moment if we took it 20 years
• 13:21
  ago. So have you just do that?
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  But you're right, Field Music are bereft of the big indie hit.
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  And they also said they don't, they said they don't really fit
• 13:31
  into a playlistable genre right now.
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  And they were saying, let's say words and, and that's one of the
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  things I think is, is that some things do come back in into
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  fashion. Or I mean, I was reading about,
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  oh, what's the band name? Is it Lord Huron?
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  Is that how you say it? Oh yes.
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  Who that is one of the songs of their albums has become one of
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  the biggest streaming hits over time and no one quite knows why.
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  I think there was a sink or Netflix thing in it.
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  But so I think for filming they're saying yeah, look, we
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  don't have we're not on the heritage circuit.
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  We're not really getting playlisted on Spotify and other
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  services and so but we want to carry on going and I think
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  that's that for me. This thing is, is, and this
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  applies to Ed bands around the world who have this position.
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  If doing a monthly gig as the Doors keeps you solvent, keeps
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  your head above water so you can carry on making music, I think I
• 14:15
  think fans will understand and appreciate that.
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  And it might actually be a it might also be a nudge to fans to
• 14:20
  say, well, actually, well, I might support, I might buy a
• 14:22
  T-shirt. I might, you know, find a way of
• 14:23
  Chucky's music at them because I want you want them to keep
• 14:27
  carrying on. So, yeah, it's like it's about
• 14:28
  being adaptable, doing what you need to, making it something
• 14:31
  fun. And yeah, like you say, there's
• 14:32
  so many musicians out there already there.
• 14:34
  They do it. Some some people are teaching
• 14:36
  music, aren't they? Everyone's, everyone has got a
• 14:38
  side hustle on or three. I think at this level of the
• 14:40
  industry and and that can be stressful, but I think it's also
• 14:43
  testament to how resourceful that bands are.
• 14:47
  Yeah, I mean, we should make the point as well that although the
• 14:50
  discussion has been around field music this week, they, they're
• 14:54
  not the only band who are doing this, who have alter egos that
• 14:59
  perform as a trivia. I mean, I know there's at least
• 15:03
  there's at least one band in Leeds, but I'm sure there's all
• 15:06
  all over the country. But yeah, there's I was chatting
• 15:10
  to a promoter about a band in Leeds who are doing exactly the
• 15:13
  same thing. They play gigs as a tribute act
• 15:16
  to to then finance their art. And I suppose here's here's the
• 15:19
  question. I'm I'm sure you know, the
• 15:21
  original comment wasn't, you know, wasn't a real dig for but
• 15:27
  but you know, what's is playing gigs as a tribute act.
• 15:31
  Is that any worse than having to work part time as a barista or
• 15:35
  in a pub or whatever part time job you can get to to pay for
• 15:39
  the rehearsal room? Because I don't think it I don't
• 15:41
  think it is. And I don't also don't think we
• 15:43
  should expect artists to live off cold baked beans and Mashed
• 15:48
  potato. You know, I'm not, I'm, I'm not
• 15:50
  that purist. I mean, I might have been 30
• 15:53
  years ago when, when, when suede were living off Mashed potato in
• 15:58
  a Camden flat before they made it.
• 16:00
  But, you know, the, but the landscape is entirely different.
• 16:03
  And so, yeah, you have, as you say, have to adapt.
• 16:07
  Big story #2 Spotify could pull out of Turkey after the
• 16:12
  government launched an inquiry into its business.
• 16:15
  What is? What is this about?
• 16:18
  OK, there's layers to this. So yeah, the competition
• 16:22
  regulator in Turkey announced an investigation, Spotify, and they
• 16:25
  were saying stuff like it's to do with how it deals with rivals
• 16:29
  and some questions about how its royalties are given out and how
• 16:31
  it may give unfair treatment to some artisans.
• 16:33
  It sounds like a quite a serious competition inquiry saying
• 16:36
  you're doing bad stuff, but there is something else behind
• 16:39
  this and that thing is golden toilets and not not golden
• 16:45
  toilets at Spotify headquarters before anyone else like that.
• 16:47
  Almost don't want to ask what what is a golden toilet?
• 16:52
  OK, this is a famous, this is kind of a meme, a criticism of
• 16:55
  the, the Turkey's president and his wife.
• 16:57
  So the the theory is their mansion is so plush, they have
• 17:00
  gold plated toilet seats. And this has become a thing that
• 17:03
  people who are opposition to the regime talk about.
• 17:06
  It's become one of those things like people talk about Imelda
• 17:08
  Marcus's shoe collection in the Philippines back in the day, and
• 17:12
  it's something that makes the government very cross.
• 17:15
  So people were creating, it turns out playlists on Spotify
• 17:18
  chords think things like so. So the president's called
• 17:22
  Erdogan and his wife's called Ermeen Erdogan, and his play is
• 17:25
  called songs Ermeen Erdogan's listened to when a golden
• 17:27
  Fawcett broke. And so basically playlists with
• 17:32
  artwork and titles poking fun at the president and his wife.
• 17:35
  And there was this long thunderous tweet from Turkey's
• 17:38
  deputy cultural minister saying, why is spot violation happen?
• 17:42
  It's disgusting. This is horrible.
• 17:44
  So you get the sense that, OK, there's, there's all this, this
• 17:47
  tension around people being rude on Spotify about the the
• 17:50
  authority there. And lo and behold, a competition
• 17:53
  inquiry ensues. Who who knew that in Turkey the
• 17:58
  height of satire would come in the title of a playlist?
• 18:03
  Don't they have a Private Eye over there?
• 18:05
  Well, well, I mean, is this where people are?
• 18:08
  People are going. Well, that is the thing in
• 18:10
  countries where other forms of protest or media are restricted,
• 18:14
  you end up turning to whatever, you know, something like Spotify
• 18:17
  becomes a place. And it's, it's weird because
• 18:19
  like there's a long history in Turkey.
• 18:20
  And this is like we're not it's not our place to discuss
• 18:23
  Turkey's political environment. But there's been a long history
• 18:26
  of tensions with digital services.
• 18:28
  So YouTube's been banned there several times over stuff
• 18:31
  appearing on you didn't like social media companies had run
• 18:33
  insurance with the government. So.
• 18:34
  And at the moment there's a big controversy over there's a left
• 18:37
  wing folk band there who are anti the authorities and their
• 18:40
  music's been blocked on Spotify and other services.
• 18:43
  So there is this big ongoing tension between freedom of
• 18:45
  expression and, yeah, golden toilets has become one of those,
• 18:49
  one of the things that seems to have really, kind of seems to
• 18:53
  really get on the Wick of the president and the authorities.
• 18:56
  So in spite. But this is serious for Spotify
• 18:58
  because Turkey's a really rapidly great market.
• 19:00
  I think it nearly doubled last year in, in terms of its
• 19:02
  recorded music market. And Turkish artists are doing
• 19:04
  really well on streaming. And Spotify is actually making
• 19:08
  this point, saying, look, we're paying out loads of money to
• 19:10
  Turkish artists. We're supporting their music.
• 19:12
  We're doing a good thing here. And there was a report in The
• 19:14
  Times which seemed to be based on, it said sort of sources at
• 19:17
  the company. And you're never sure whether
• 19:18
  that's just a leak or it's a deliberate briefing.
• 19:21
  But the the gist was that Spotify is is cooperating with
• 19:25
  this enquiry, but also thinking, well, are we going to have to
• 19:28
  pull out of Turkey and sort of by making that public, we might
• 19:32
  pull out. You maybe hope to jog along the
• 19:34
  thought of of not, you know, So, yeah, it's quite it's a funny
• 19:38
  thing in in the golden loose thing, but it is a someone like
• 19:41
  Spotify has become so big. I think that in countries where
• 19:45
  there are tensions between digital services and the
• 19:48
  authorities, it's now finding itself in some of those
• 19:51
  arguments and it's figuring out what to do.
• 19:53
  OK, continuing with streaming and also one of the themes from
• 19:58
  last week's programme. The latest bands taking the
• 20:02
  streaming services by storm are entirely fictional, although
• 20:06
  unlike last week's story about some made-up AI bands.
• 20:10
  These bands, they're from the Netflix cartoon K Pop Demon
• 20:15
  Hunters. Tell us about this.
• 20:17
  Yeah, this is a fascinating story.
• 20:19
  And like you say, it's quite different from last week.
• 20:20
  So K Pop Demon Hunters, this new series on Netflix, it's kind of
• 20:24
  an animated show. It's about these two, two sort
• 20:26
  of competitive K pop bands. And there's also Demon Hunter in
• 20:31
  monastery business going on as well.
• 20:33
  So it's a a classic kind of, you know, cartoon music cartoon.
• 20:36
  And the two the two groups in this show, 1's called Hunter
• 20:39
  Slash X and the other one's called Saja Boys.
• 20:42
  And they've both there's a soundtrack on Spotify and other
• 20:44
  streaming services. And both bands, both bands have
• 20:47
  released tracks and they're doing huge.
• 20:50
  So like right now in Spotify's daily top 50 chart, the top of
• 20:53
  it are Blackpink, like a a human K pop group with 6.6 million
• 20:58
  daily streams of their latest song.
• 21:00
  But Hunter X and this TV show were in second place with
• 21:02
  6,000,000 and Sarge Boys, a couple in the top ten too.
• 21:04
  So like I think about four of Spotify's top 10 tracks globally
• 21:08
  are from these two virtual pop bands.
• 21:11
  But like you said, the difference to last week is this
• 21:13
  is this is like this is a this is all out in the open.
• 21:17
  And there were real musicians behind them and they're
• 21:19
  credited. Name the producers, the writers,
• 21:21
  the the artists who are singing are all credited.
• 21:24
  So rather than being like an AI band, I mean, I guess Gorillas
• 21:27
  is the obvious example from our era of a, of a virtual band of
• 21:30
  characters, but it goes way back.
• 21:31
  I mean, I own another, another massive Wikipedia rabbit hole to
• 21:34
  look at virtual, you know, fictional bands.
• 21:37
  Do you remember Alvin and the Chipmunks?
• 21:39
  Yes, to do. I mean, being older than you,
• 21:42
  Stuart, I can go back as far as the Archies and their massive
• 21:46
  hit Sugar, sugar. Exactly, virtually listen and I
• 21:49
  was Alvin and Chipmunks who for for younger listeners where it's
• 21:53
  basically a group of chipmunks with with helium voices, but
• 21:57
  they've won 5 Grammy Awards and they had three platinum albums
• 22:02
  because in the 50s and 60's the album.
• 22:04
  And so this is like a real lineage.
• 22:06
  And this K pop demon is fitting into the archies and Alvin and
• 22:09
  the Chipmunks. And I'm saying because everyone
• 22:11
  listening now is going to have Baby Shark and Alvin and the
• 22:14
  Chipmunks in their heads for the rest of the day.
• 22:16
  I mean, what this goes to show is that it's not only ladies and
• 22:20
  gentlemen, genuine mainstream news outlets who are rapidly
• 22:26
  getting into the silly season. We're only in July and we're
• 22:31
  covering fictional K pop bands and Alvin and the Chipmunks.
• 22:35
  You know, four of the top 10 tracks in the world right now
• 22:38
  from these fictional kids. It's a fascinating moment, I
• 22:40
  think. And I think, I think Universal
• 22:42
  Music Republic Records is involved in the soundtrack.
• 22:45
  So there's big music industry involvement.
• 22:47
  But yeah, so I haven't watched it.
• 22:48
  I really want to go and watch it now, like, But then and then
• 22:52
  Netflix will then take that and start recommending all the other
• 22:54
  crazy sort of South Korean animation series, which might be
• 22:57
  quite fun. So.
• 22:58
  Yeah. All right.
• 23:01
  Those are those are our big three stories.
• 23:03
  Have you got any other business for us this week?
• 23:05
  Anything else which maybe caught your eye?
• 23:09
  Yeah, so one was Lewis Capaldi, which I mean, did you see his
• 23:14
  his set at Glastonbury or did you see see the reports of it
• 23:16
  after? It was really it's genuinely
• 23:17
  emotional moment, wasn't it, when he kind of came back onto
• 23:19
  Glastonbury stage. Yeah, there was a lot of love
• 23:21
  for him, I think, because obviously the the story
• 23:24
  surrounding it and, you know, returning to that stage and what
• 23:27
  it meant to him. Yeah.
• 23:29
  And so he's been dealing with, I think, Tourette's syndrome and
• 23:31
  anxiety and, and he's been away for quite a while.
• 23:33
  And, and one of the reasons he's back on stage now is therapy.
• 23:36
  He's had a lot of therapy to help him sort of manage his
• 23:39
  conditions and, and deal with them.
• 23:41
  And so he then teamed up with this online therapy service
• 23:43
  called Betterhelp, which is to give away.
• 23:45
  I think it's 734 hours of no, 734,000 hours of therapy, which
• 23:51
  I think corresponds to, I think 734 days is how long he was away
• 23:54
  from music right to people. And basically it's saying, I've
• 23:58
  had this, it helped me. I want to make, get other people
• 24:01
  to experience it, which I mean, therapy, I, I, it's expensive.
• 24:04
  It's quite an expensive thing. So I mean, obviously this is
• 24:07
  kind of a marketing thing for the company who's partnered with
• 24:10
  him and that that people will do maybe get an hour of therapy and
• 24:12
  then they'll might, might pay for more.
• 24:14
  But I thought it was a nice thing.
• 24:15
  It was kind of recognising what's helped him.
• 24:18
  And it actually happened the same day as I think Olivia
• 24:19
  Rodrigo, it turns out, has paid for her entire band and crew to
• 24:24
  have therapy whenever they want it on a tour.
• 24:27
  So whatever it's with their own she's she's footing the bill for
• 24:29
  them to kind of have therapy whenever they want it.
• 24:32
  And I felt that those two stories were a little window
• 24:34
  into, yeah, this the music industry is thinking about this
• 24:37
  stuff more. I think that the health of not
• 24:40
  just artists, but their crew and the people around them.
• 24:42
  So yeah, that was a good story. Yeah, that's good.
• 24:45
  I've just been taking the Mickey out of Curly Pop.
• 24:47
  But there's there's there's the the what this we probably should
• 24:51
  mention, which are taking us back to the world of K pop.
• 24:55
  We're although only as a starting point really for this
• 24:57
  discussion. But the you just mentioned
• 25:00
  Blackpink, the K pop band Blackpink are that apparently
• 25:06
  taking a leaf out of Oasis book. They're all getting separate
• 25:11
  limos for the gate now, but they're doing what Oasis did and
• 25:15
  other other some other smaller bands in fact have tried over
• 25:19
  the last year, which is Blackpink are opening up their
• 25:22
  own pop up merch stores around their concerts, which and you,
• 25:27
  you ask yourself immediately, is this to add to the fans
• 25:30
  experience? You know, we'll open up a shop.
• 25:32
  It's got all the stuff that you want.
• 25:35
  Or is it an attempt to get rounds venues who charge a
• 25:40
  Commission on merch? Because for anyone who doesn't
• 25:44
  know, there are certain venues, including quite a lot of big
• 25:47
  venues who will charge you a Commission for selling your
• 25:51
  merch in their, in their venue. So it might, it might be that.
• 25:55
  I mean, this is something which comes up, I mean, it regularly
• 25:57
  crops up 3 or 4 * a year artists crying foul when venues take a
• 26:02
  cut of their, their merch sales, doesn't it?
• 26:04
  That's, it's something which as I say, it never goes, it never
• 26:09
  seems to properly go away. And someone at some point,
• 26:14
  whether it's Robert Smith or whoever it is will say, hang on
• 26:17
  a second, you're taking 2025% of our, our T-shirt money.
• 26:22
  What's that about? Well, yeah.
• 26:24
  And it's interesting because I think, I mean, this is the
• 26:27
  example of black people. As I said, they've got the
• 26:29
  biggest track in the world right now today.
• 26:31
  So they are, they are big business and they're doing this
• 26:33
  North American tour. And yeah, I think it's part of a
• 26:36
  few of those things. I mean, I sort of, I, I, I don't
• 26:38
  know whether it's about the merch cut, because if you're,
• 26:42
  they will still be selling merch at the venues they play, I'm
• 26:44
  sure. And obviously if you do a pop
• 26:46
  up, you've got to rent that pop up and you've got to foot the
• 26:49
  bill for decorating it and doing all that stuff.
• 26:51
  And I, I'm not in my head, I'm trying to work out, do you save
• 26:54
  money by not having to give a cut to the venue?
• 26:56
  But do you then just spend that on renting a pop up venue and so
• 26:59
  on? But I think what's interesting
• 27:01
  about it is that you can do more than just sell merch.
• 27:05
  So this Blackpink announcement, they mentioned exclusive merch,
• 27:08
  so stuff you can only get from this shop.
• 27:11
  So that's a way of driving fans to it.
• 27:13
  Immersive photo moments, which I think both of us might scoff at
• 27:16
  a bit, but it's very, very of the moment.
• 27:18
  It's like basically stuff to take your Instagram snaps and
• 27:22
  your TikTok videos against. And so you have around this
• 27:25
  store, I would think you'll have stuff based on the artwork,
• 27:27
  based on their outfits, like just all kinds of stuff to stand
• 27:31
  in front of and get photos with. And that's a really, that's
• 27:33
  really exciting for fans and other things.
• 27:37
  So I think in a way, it's like the creative control, isn't it?
• 27:39
  Like I'm not sure races are doing this.
• 27:40
  That might be more about selling stuff, I think.
• 27:42
  But you can really have creative control of the space your merch
• 27:45
  is sold in. You can do whatever you want
• 27:47
  with it rather than just squeeze into whatever booths they have
• 27:49
  at the venues. You can decorate, you can create
• 27:51
  stuff. So you get that kind of you can
• 27:53
  really build something that that that reflects your artwork, your
• 27:56
  visuals, your, your brand, blah, blah.
• 27:59
  But also you can open these things for days.
• 28:01
  Like I think in both Oasis and Black Prince case, these aren't
• 28:04
  just open when the gig's on, They're open for days around the
• 28:07
  show and fans who haven't got tickets to the shows can go.
• 28:10
  So you're, you're immediately, you know, many more people can
• 28:13
  come in, see what you've got and hopefully buy stuff so.
• 28:18
  It's a walk in fan club for people who've got money to spend
• 28:22
  on the group who they are currently obsessed with.
• 28:26
  Exactly. And you can do, you can do all
• 28:27
  the stuff with it, like these pop ups, you know, if you're if
• 28:30
  you can figure it out, the band can turn up.
• 28:32
  And that's always a huge moment. All the fans take videos of
• 28:34
  that, put it on social media, creates a big marketing moment
• 28:36
  for you. You know, you can do you can do
• 28:39
  performances. So yeah, it's like having your
• 28:41
  own space around the concert. And it means it's this idea I
• 28:43
  think of of this is what concerts are becoming, isn't it?
• 28:46
  It's not just about the two hours you're watching the band
• 28:48
  or the group for. It's everything around it.
• 28:52
  And how can you be? How can you do more with that
• 28:54
  and make control of it? So yeah, I mean, it's a it's AI
• 28:57
  think we're going to see more of it.
• 28:58
  And Blackpink and Oasis, I think are two of the probably the two
• 29:01
  of the hottest touring acts this year.
• 29:03
  But but like you said, I think if you're a band listening to
• 29:06
  this going well, I'm not, you know, I'm not the biggest.
• 29:08
  Black, Pink and Oasis. What does this mean to me?
• 29:09
  But we've seen, haven't we like smaller bands doing things like
• 29:12
  selling merch in the pub down the road from the venue, which
• 29:15
  that is a way of not having to pay the, the merch, the venue
• 29:17
  fee. But I think you can do a lot of
• 29:19
  stuff. Yeah.
• 29:20
  What can you do offsite with your your fans, with your merch
• 29:25
  and with, you know, stuff? And finally, this week Ozzy
• 29:29
  Osbourne is auctioning a series of paintings that he did with
• 29:34
  some What should how should we describe them?
• 29:36
  Interesting collaborators. Yeah.
• 29:40
  So this is this came out just after the retirement concert he
• 29:43
  did and he announced it's a visual art collaboration with
• 29:47
  chimpanzees. So basically Ozzy, I'll read you
• 29:53
  up the Guardian and say because he painted multi coloured base
• 29:56
  coats onto 5 canvases with a chimpanzees then adding daubs of
• 30:00
  their own. The finished abstract
• 30:03
  expressionist works. But the good thing here is
• 30:07
  they're being sold to raise money for a chimp sanctuary in
• 30:09
  Florida. So as much as I want to laugh at
• 30:11
  it, this is a lovely thing. And he doesn't, apparently.
• 30:15
  I didn't realise Ozzy Osbourne does paint but he doesn't sell
• 30:18
  his paintings. That was a quote.
• 30:20
  He said that he doesn't sell his paintings and this is the
• 30:22
  exception because he wants to support this charity.
• 30:24
  So I like that. Yeah, a nice one to end on.
• 30:28
  And that's what that's where we'll leave it for this week.
• 30:30
  Unless of course you are one of our kindly Patreon subscribers.
• 30:34
  If you are stay listening, we'll have another lock in for you
• 30:37
  nice people, an extra section of the show where this week we'll
• 30:41
  be discussing most other things well off the back of that merch
• 30:44
  story, bizarre or inventive merchandise which artists have
• 30:49
  peddled at some point. And also, if we've got time,
• 30:52
  I've got I've got a Black Pink merch story, which we might do
• 30:55
  as well. If you'd like to join us for the
• 30:57
  lock in and support what we're doing, you can sign up to become
• 30:59
  a fan or super fan of the show at patreon.com.
• 31:03
  Thank you very much to new superfan subscribers this week,
• 31:06
  James Bolton and Jonathan Boyers.
• 31:09
  Thank you very much, fellas. We will be giving shout outs to
• 31:12
  all our new superfans over the coming weeks. patreon.com/the
• 31:16
  Price of music. Otherwise, it'd be lovely to
• 31:19
  hear from any and all of you any correspondence, including, of
• 31:23
  course, any questions that you you might have about the
• 31:27
  industry and how it works. Anything you'd like us to try
• 31:30
  and answer or explain for you, just drop us a line at the price
• 31:34
  of music, podcast@gmail.com. Thank you very much for
• 31:38
  listening. Bye for now.