Latest / Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps / "How Not to Feel Like a Failure (When Fame & Fortune Aren't Enough)" with TV Host Osher Günsberg

Transcript

"How Not to Feel Like a Failure (When Fame & Fortune Aren't Enough)" with TV Host Osher Günsberg · Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps

• 0:00
  Get a humans welcome to the safe space for dangerous ideas boy have we got a lot of stuff coming up
• 0:09
  We got some exciting things I tell you I tell you that for nothing not even a a shackle
• 0:15
  Do you need to pay to be told that we got some incredible stuff coming up?
• 0:18
  So just look just keep an eye on the older uncomfortable conversations podcast feed
• 0:23
  Don't don't go sleeping on it. Don't go snoozing. Don't be thinking now. You know my life's busy. I got shit to do
• 0:30
  I need to be paying attention to old Josh trust me in the coming weeks and months. You want to be paying attention to the old Josh
• 0:37
  And I'm not gonna badger you about downloading the sub stack app so you can stay abreast of everything we're doing
• 0:42
  I'm not gonna harang you about how you should subscribe at least to a free subscription
• 0:48
  So you know what's coming down the pike and I'm saying that and say you know, you know keep an eye out just watch out
• 0:54
  For all the things that we allude to in this episode briefly or be it briefly
• 1:00
  It's a recording of a live stream that I did with Oshagin's bird who is
• 1:06
  Undeniably the most successful television host in Australia
• 1:10
  He hosted Australian idol for many years. He hosted the masked singer. He hosted the bachelor
• 1:15
  He hosted the bachelor rett. He's a he's you know like Ryan C. Crest but plus a lot of humanity
• 1:21
  And he also has a podcast which makes him a more sort of
• 1:25
  Philosophizing person who noodles on what it means to live a good life
• 1:28
  So maybe Ryan C. Crest mixed with Dax Sheppard, so to speak
• 1:32
  Oshagin has what he politely calls a different brain
• 1:36
  It's a brain that is prone to depression and social anxiety and obsessive compulsive disorder and
• 1:44
  psychosis and addiction
• 1:46
  That's what his podcast wrestles with is called better than yesterday. It's a great listen that you know
• 1:51
  It talks not just about mental health, but also about recovery and about parenting what it means to grow older
• 1:57
  In a flexible and interesting way and Oshagin's become something of a sort of spokesperson for wellness
• 2:03
  As he has become more and more open about the struggles that he himself has faced. He's got a new book
• 2:09
  It's an illustrated book
• 2:11
  It's a short read and it's really great. It's called so what now what like so what
• 2:16
  Now what like when you have a bad thought and you had oh my god, what's gonna happen?
• 2:19
  And you know if I don't get this job or what's gonna happen if my spouse leaves me or something the
• 2:24
  And the questions you ask yourself are so what and now what and the book is subtitled how to stop being stuck and
• 2:31
  Start living
• 2:32
  It's about avoiding the hamster wheel of hoping that your next success is going to deliver happiness
• 2:37
  Dealing with the hedonic treadmill
• 2:39
  Escaping mental ruts and anxious spirals and critical self-talk
• 2:44
  So I invited Osher over we streamed live if you want to watch the video of his his pretty face and my pretty face
• 2:50
  You can go to sub-sac or you can go to youtube or you can just keep listening here
• 2:53
  But as I say as I say we're about to unveil something super super cool
• 2:58
  So if you like the likes of oh, I don't know
• 3:02
  Sam Harris and rich role and Andrew Sullivan and Jimmy car
• 3:07
  There's lots of great stuff coming up. So keep your eye on things and if you've ever been looking for an excuse
• 3:12
  You know to jump to the dark side and do the whole sub-sac thing
• 3:15
  You want to be doing it now?
• 3:16
  So you don't miss out the book is so what now what I guess today the one the only Osher against book
• 3:29
  Every Mox lot and everything is lies on where there's an engineer testing something in a patch bay listening. Yes
• 3:36
  Yeah, it's also happened. I had a when my producer was away and when I had
• 3:41
  The BBC show and there was a new person we went live and she patched
• 3:47
  She when we were gonna wear and so she was like fuck fuck why are we gonna?
• 3:52
  Yeah, where are we live? Okay, great. I'll just finish this anecdote and she's she as I'm in the studio
• 3:56
  And I'm talking there's just an anecdote. How I will get to you in a moment. Just enjoy. I'm a toy
• 4:01
  And she's talking and but she is starting to swear to herself. She's getting on the floor. She's going off
• 4:07
  The fucking thing isn't going away. She had patched the control booth. Yes to the air. Excellent. Instead of the studio
• 4:14
  Everything she was saying was going out to millions of people. I love that part of South Wales
• 4:19
  I love the kind of radio
• 4:21
  I always love the radio where you hear the stuff that you're not supposed to hear. I love hearing a door opening or a cup
• 4:27
  Down or someone off mic going oh
• 4:30
  Yeah, cuz it's like I hang on something. No, I always love that. Well, this is why we don't cut my show either
• 4:35
  We don't like edit out people people's pauses and stuff like sometimes you can hear that the everything seems too perfect
• 4:42
  Not on my show or show nothing perfect about uncomfortable conversations
• 4:46
  I love how Josh sets the professional broadcast that he is is transition seamlessly from just having a cup of tea here with him into
• 4:53
  Broadcast of voices. Well, welcome to the program. Welcome to the program. Ladies and gentlemen
• 4:58
  Terrible studio. I want to put some up a city. That's my living room
• 5:01
  Um, my cup of tea. No, I'm just gonna have to hold it all back the vial people pull them back the vial
• 5:05
  So here we are. I'm gonna pants tent with the one that
• 5:09
  You're reminding me old school
• 5:11
  Again, as I say we'll come to you in a moment people. We'll come to you in a moment
• 5:15
  Do you want to get a little a little stool a little stool?
• 5:18
  John I made oil producers off gonna get you a little
• 5:20
  I've got nowhere to sit. No, he's got their plenty of we've got a thicker of chairs. Don't worry about that. Thank you, mate
• 5:26
  Thank you. Uh, yeah, that'll be fine. Not really an ideal table, but it'll do
• 5:31
  So you're you're telling me with your pants tent. Yes. I was once on when I was on hub post live
• 5:37
  Um, you know inside the actor studio. Mm-hmm. Who has to know? I can't remember but you mean morning looks like it's brilliant
• 5:43
  It's almost brilliant guy. Yeah, and it isn't like very heavy very balding never gave in but yes
• 5:48
  Big baldy bit of sole panel up here and a large. Yes. Good. Tell me Bradley Cooper. Exactly. That's fine when you were
• 5:57
  Doing the duet with Lady Gaga
• 6:00
  How is that exactly? Yeah, so I'm sitting on the couch next to him
• 6:05
  We're live on hub post live
• 6:07
  And he's leaning back and the cameras are quite low. Mm-hmm
• 6:10
  And the lowest belt is just an ocean of crotch. You know old man crotch
• 6:16
  You can kind of make our balls. You can kind of make out of cocks. I'm wearing there. What it's mostly just
• 6:22
  I mean, I don't mean to be unkind, but let's just say after that segment
• 6:26
  They changed the angle of the cameras. It's important at hub post to make sure they were a little bit further
• 6:31
  Ariana was not happy. She was like, why am I seeing all this? I don't need to see so much of his crotch
• 6:37
  I'm getting distracted
• 6:40
  Welcome to uncomfortable. What time is it? Are you streaming to you as well? We just I don't know
• 6:44
  I'm one minute. We're gonna stream to Asher's audience as well. That's exciting. It's not exciting
• 6:49
  So
• 6:50
  This is a little bit of an experiment because as you might notice if you're watching it on YouTube or on the sub-sack
• 6:55
  It looks pretty unlike most of the sub-sack lives
• 6:57
  Yeah
• 6:58
  Because the sub-sack lives tend to be shot on phones and this is shot on a professional camera
• 7:02
  And you might be out thinking yourself
• 7:04
  Well, who are you there with Josh come on introduce your guest Josh
• 7:08
  The fabulous. I feel like Jimmy Glick sitting here like oh
• 7:13
  You're that such a wonderful book this new book is fabulous or like I'm capy league if it is
• 7:20
  He has my favorite line that describes my exact career path
• 7:23
  I think he was talking to Jay Moore, I think right and he goes you know what Jay your show business middle class
• 7:30
  If I never a but you're never D
• 7:34
  Just in the middle there
• 7:36
  And that's exactly what I feel I am
• 7:39
  You're me both kid you're me both Boschigan's book
• 7:42
  Probably the most famous Australian television host I would say and then you don't laugh
• 7:47
  Don't laugh. That's the one
• 7:49
  Being the most I appreciate it. That's a really good thing. Thank you, man
• 7:54
  Postive Australian idol. Yeah, host of the voice
• 7:58
  Post of the voice of the non-most host of the bachelor. Yeah, host of the bachelor rest. Yes, host of the mass singer
• 8:05
  Bachelor in paradise host of the Bachelor of Bachelor of Bachelor of Bachelor in Bondi rescue voice of Bondi rescue
• 8:11
  Streams of stream
• 8:14
  Recompense
• 8:16
  Wait, do they not give you royalties for Bondi? No, they said one and done you get wow
• 8:20
  Really it's just a voiceover, but it's great. I'm all over the world going for free. Josh. I runs into the bleach
• 8:25
  Yeah, and then you don't get paid for it. It's fine. That's great. I got paid at the time
• 8:29
  Yeah, sure, but
• 8:31
  800 bucks or something 500 bucks and then forever. I don't know better than they go. She added them that really. Yeah, it's 550
• 8:39
  I'll show you a new book. Oh fabulous new book
• 8:42
  If you're listening to the audio podcast and this is all a bit confusing backing. No, I should show
• 8:46
  I just think paint a picture
• 8:48
  Yeah, she'd also go and you can get off your ass and go and watch it on YouTube or something
• 8:51
  But we're seated on high-top
• 8:54
  Stools will fund of a bucolic backdrop of the leafy Sydney suburbs. There's Gravillia. There's Eucalypt
• 9:00
  There's a Jacaranda. We've got a Brazilian immigrant there. There's all
• 9:04
  There's that's right as a Windsor Island
• 9:07
  With a leaf blower and
• 9:09
  That's why the tree is a Brazilian tree. Is that right? Yes, okay
• 9:14
  You're the one that went for the gardener. That's fun. I mean what I'm already young comfortable
• 9:19
  I'm gonna get cancelled from my own show
• 9:22
  That's a good part about not working in broadcast
• 9:24
  Yes, right? Where are you going to cancel me? Oh, yeah
• 9:26
  So I've already gone to a job if you don't know usher usher was also radio hosts
• 9:29
  Yeah, I like myself and we so we had employers and now usher is essentially a homeless hobo like I am
• 9:35
  I went from gold loading on my nation to unemployment. A gold loading is Australia's highest. Oh well
• 9:41
  It's perceived as Australia's highest in attainment honor. Yes, but it's actually a rigged voting system
• 9:47
  I wouldn't say such a thing at all. No, you wouldn't say that. No. Did you win the gold load?
• 9:51
  I did not win the gold load. Who won the gold load? It was Sonya Kruger who won that gold?
• 9:55
  I mean, what are they thinking? What do they think? Lovely lady. They're going to be wrong works very hard. Beautiful person
• 10:01
  Yeah, no usher againsberg, but it was it was this is more indicative not of my ability but more indicative of the
• 10:08
  the chasm the yawning chasm of
• 10:11
  unknowability that the Australian television industry is moving into
• 10:16
  In that nobody's making nothing nobody's making anything. They're certainly not higher and old-off
• 10:21
  No, they're not hiring or Josh. No, they're not hiring anybody. No, SBS had didn't for the first time in forever at their
• 10:27
  Upfronts it in announced one drama. It's amazing. No one's making enough up. No one's making anything. No, the cupboard is bare
• 10:33
  You know who's making something you old zepsy. Yeah on the substax. Here's another thing to announce to people
• 10:39
  If you're just joining us
• 10:40
  This is an episode of zepsy live, which is also an episode of uncomfortable conversations
• 10:45
  I mean if you're listening to the podcast you can subscribe with the substax. Yes, you can watch it on YouTube
• 10:49
  You're my first substax
• 10:51
  Subscriber person. Is that right? Yes. I was driving through Melbourne. Me subscribing to you. No, me subscribing to you
• 10:58
  I was driving through Melbourne just
• 11:00
  Infuriated at the fading out of the conversation of look. Did you just get into the good bit? Yeah, good
• 11:05
  Interruptus
• 11:07
  That means that you're my producer found the right spot. It worked
• 11:11
  I want to make it maximally annoying. He just he just he was just edging me there
• 11:15
  Week after week. Yep, and then I he got me going like
• 11:19
  Got me over the line and that was back when you had to actually subscribe on the substax
• 11:23
  Yes, now you can just click up a map all if you want to but then you don't get all the substax live stuff
• 11:26
  Which I should mention get on it not only get on it
• 11:29
  We're about to do something very exciting
• 11:31
  We're about to do something very exciting on
• 11:33
  Wedden's day
• 11:35
  Did you like my pronunciation more syllables the better on wedden's day and I also say white as I do too white
• 11:43
  cool whip
• 11:44
  On wedden's day where John or we're gonna be we're start traveling
• 11:48
  We're gonna start traveling around the world and one of the things that we'll be doing on the various voyages is
• 11:54
  Sitting down with people essentially a live round the world marathon. I love it
• 11:58
  And we've got your your Sam Harris's we've got your rich roles. We've got your Jimmy cars. We've got your drunk pieces
• 12:05
  We got your all kinds of people all over the planet. There's not enough room and there's four for the names
• 12:10
  Which is to watch to bat holy smokes so if you have
• 12:14
  I give you some books to take because I really need
• 12:17
  I really need to get that book to rich. We're getting to the we're getting to the book
• 12:20
  Oh, yeah, I'll tell but yeah, that's right. Of course you introduced me to rich origin leading you
• 12:24
  That's a lovely guy
• 12:27
  So hi rich if you watch
• 12:29
  He's coming over to the substank as well. Yeah, good. Uh, which is absolutely he should do
• 12:35
  Um, so if you've been thinking about well, maybe
• 12:37
  Then you're gonna start seeing lots of great sub stack lines and although you'll be able to watch them live free
• 12:44
  All of them you will need to have the substanker happen order to get notifications of when I'm going live
• 12:49
  And it'll ping you in the middle of the night and two in the morning you wake up your phone and go being you know what the
• 12:53
  This is when it just comes upon you to be like
• 12:55
  I'm just gonna go live now. You don't go out tomorrow at one p.m. Eastern. Well, I might do that
• 13:00
  Isn't part of the appeal. It's just like oh, hey, look at this drop everything. This amazing person. I'm chatting with John Cleese
• 13:06
  I'm suddenly talking to Gina Lollabriger. Wow. Is she still alive?
• 13:11
  We're about to that'll be a good chat. Either way
• 13:14
  Great chat not answering my emails. So that's what that's gonna happen
• 13:17
  And if you miss the live one and then you want to watch him back
• 13:20
  You'll want to have paid you want to have paid your five and check all the
• 13:24
  You're not gonna get it. Yeah, and I'm getting more shameless about that like people are like why you keep
• 13:29
  Plugging your thing. I'm like because this is my fucking job and I'm out of run a business
• 13:33
  My dear John. Oh needs to get paid. Oh, you're flying in economy class. Oh, he doesn't have the Josh's eps
• 13:38
  You know point hackathon. You know weird. I'm trying to do. I can't specky hobby the Josh
• 13:46
  What I'm saying is if you're faced with a choice of spending $5.99 on your children
• 13:51
  While spending $5.99 on upgrading John O from economy class to at least premium economy at least then think about your values in line
• 13:59
  Eurobears can we get into eurobears?
• 14:02
  This is an in joke. This is an in joke eurobears. It's not really
• 14:07
  It's like a New Zealand going. I know you just get to buy three economy seats and you all at life
• 14:11
  Call it live flat. Yeah, that's right. So eurobears is just an economy. It's just a colony class. It's all I have five extra degrees
• 14:18
  They don't don't have not even a bit more pitch. There's no more pitch. There's nothing
• 14:22
  It's the same seat the same pitch the same legal name everything triple a price and you get a free cocktail
• 14:27
  See, this is why I
• 14:29
  The whole idea of making big pay for it and you know, I love paying some people who make stuff I want to hear
• 14:36
  Okay, all right because I think it's worth it's important to pay
• 14:39
  People work yourself because it doesn't have you for free. No, it doesn't
• 14:42
  And I'm not just people. I'm not just spending the money on this this here diet coke that I'm drinking
• 14:47
  I'm messing it back in the state
• 14:51
  So heggie who makes mid-flight brawl which as a fissiana a fissiana with air travel as you are is one of the greatest podcasts ever
• 14:59
  Yeah, they do six episodes a month to a free
• 15:03
  Right the other four you don't get yeah, yeah
• 15:07
  Do you get any of it you get two no, but do of the of the paid pay walled episodes?
• 15:12
  They don't even give you the like I'm gonna tease you
• 15:15
  No, don't even gently masturbate you know even no no and even twice a year
• 15:19
  They have Christmas and they also have Christmas in July twice a year the subscribers
• 15:23
  Get to write
• 15:24
  Messages of abuse for people who don't subscribe wow who like so for example
• 15:30
  I introduced you to the show and you're too cheap to get on their patreon. I get to go hey Josh
• 15:34
  You're scummy bastard. Yeah, check out you know stop spending money on your diet coke and start paying the boys amazing
• 15:41
  I love it. Um, it's great. Yeah, by the way also. I just saw a little
• 15:45
  Delivery guy, you know hive is vest come walking by and you just sort of paused at the window and like gazed at us as if to say
• 15:52
  Is that Osha Ginsburne? No, that's Josh sir. Is that the Osha Ginsburne? There is hi. Hello. He's waving it, you know
• 15:59
  Okay, thank you. Good man
• 16:01
  He came out of life that he also didn't take off his hive is helmet
• 16:05
  No, when he came up the school you live a type of mountain. I know. It's very difficult
• 16:10
  It's a it's a big driveway is what he's saying
• 16:12
  Welcome everybody to this episode of either zaps live or
• 16:18
  uncomfortable conversations
• 16:20
  Or both or by available on all good streaming platforms except only it on sub stack at the moment
• 16:27
  live
• 16:28
  Osha Ginsburne is with us and he's written this book. Did I mention the book? Yes, you did
• 16:33
  I talked about it so what I didn't call it it's called so what now what yeah, how to stop being stuck and start living
• 16:41
  It's illustrated by Campbell Walker
• 16:44
  AKA Struthworth. He's amazing and it's a it's a graphic novel. It's a graphic non-fiction
• 16:51
  Advice book about mental wellness. It's the book. I wish I had
• 16:55
  When I wasn't doing very well. I mean, I've known you for a very long time, but yes, it's 25 25 when we're recording this
• 17:01
  2015 2014 so 2014 15 16 also. I was doing really poorly
• 17:07
  Oh, but you were very successful outwardly. Oh, yeah, yeah
• 17:10
  So that's the thing people who think what's complex mental illness look like
• 17:14
  Oh, it's a person shouting at imaginary dragons in the street. Yeah, I mean sometimes your job required you to shout at imaginary dragons
• 17:20
  on television it can be that but it this is true. That was later though
• 17:25
  And it was a popcorn machine
• 17:26
  but saying um
• 17:28
  But
• 17:29
  They can also look like someone who's holding down a job on live television or another time was in life
• 17:35
  But on television and you know doing his job very very well
• 17:38
  But I was on two kinds of anti-psychotics and an SSRI and an NSRI and you know
• 17:42
  Sigma psychiatrists every week and full
• 17:45
  Uh, whatever the opposite of this. So there's a selective serotonin and there's a something serotonin
• 17:50
  Okay, so I was on a lot of meds
• 17:52
  putting a lot of weight because of the meds because it messes with your insulin, but
• 17:55
  Um, I wish that I had this book at that time because it wasn't until I went up and down a bit through my adventures
• 18:03
  And it wasn't until right before my son Wolfgang was born our kids are a little your kids are a little older than mine
• 18:09
  um my youngest
• 18:10
  Right before wolf was born. I'd managed to get off all the meds and things were quite good
• 18:15
  Um, but as often happens. I don't know if you or show an experience this with the incoming
• 18:20
  Child expectation, but I started to not do very well. Oh, it was terrible. I didn't know the first two years of
• 18:26
  Were you talking about before before before before before birth? That was fine
• 18:30
  But the first two years like his lives were the worst
• 18:33
  Yeah, it was really it's really hard
• 18:34
  But as we were getting closer and closer
• 18:36
  I found that I was starting to slip
• 18:37
  And I didn't want to accept that every day was getting worse than the last and I knew what was coming all right
• 18:42
  And we were on the
• 18:44
  It was like the last holiday we could have before orgy was cleared of
• 18:47
  Was I'm able to fly so we're going up to the wits on days and I learned to chain off the coast of Queensland
• 18:53
  And she just took one look at me and she goes I need you to go see a psychiatrist
• 18:56
  I need you to get back on meds and I know enough to know that when I'm in it. I don't know. I'm in it
• 19:00
  It's like asking a fish what water is. Yes, all right
• 19:02
  And so I know to trust her like got it if you're saying there's something's up something's up
• 19:06
  Next day, I was at my shrink that night. I was on any how do you get your shrink? I
• 19:11
  When I want a therapist it takes me six months. Well, I emailed him and I
• 19:16
  Know him and he shot me a script pretty quickly. Oh, the benefits of being a celebrity. Well, not really would see
• 19:23
  Okay, yeah, yeah, he was yeah, but after that it was still not getting better. Yeah, all right, so
• 19:30
  um
• 19:31
  So the SSRI is just a garden variety
• 19:34
  Any depressants. Yeah, they don't do the pros acts and so on something like that. They don't do the job
• 19:39
  They just kind of loosen the bolts a little bit and you still have to do the work
• 19:43
  Yeah, and I'm doing the work, but it wasn't getting better. I was like fuck me. This is
• 19:47
  I don't want to I don't know if this is ending up and I don't want this to I don't want to get back on those
• 19:51
  Those drugs again because they're great. They work, but the world becomes like blue tuck plus to saying like gray and spongy
• 19:58
  It's great. It's not crazy, but it's hard to live a life of joy within that stuff and so
• 20:06
  I had heard from someone
• 20:10
  Who they had experienced they were a victim of homicide
• 20:14
  Someone very close to them had been murdered in a really terrible terrible way in a B&E gone wrong
• 20:19
  and a break-in-end break-in-end tears and they
• 20:24
  told me about the therapy that they did afterwards. There's someone very close to them and
• 20:29
  You know how to how do I manage this? How do I handle this person?
• 20:32
  I literally saw them that afternoon and then now the the house that they're in is just a crime scene and there's blood and horror and
• 20:39
  And this is in like regional Australia. So it was every small town
• 20:43
  And they started telling me about this therapy that they went through. It's like what's that cool?
• 20:46
  So just except for a therapy. It's like oh wow
• 20:48
  It's kind of like the last thought before you have to get back on any psychotic. Yeah
• 20:51
  And so I went and found this therapist and she was extraordinary and
• 20:56
  She's a very talented woman and she started taking me through stuff
• 20:58
  We did a bunch of exposure therapy and a bunch of things and what did you need exposure to?
• 21:02
  Um, it was all the climate stuff. I know you and I've talked for a while
• 21:06
  But that's the thing that tipped me off the edge of the world was just this irrational
• 21:10
  complete cataclysmic climate
• 21:13
  Anxiety like climate change. Yes, absolutely like that that the full and unchecked yeah ramifications
• 21:19
  The day after tomorrow and I'm the only person that knows about it
• 21:22
  I don't want it to run down the street and warn people and I know you are enough to know if I want to run down the street and warn people
• 21:27
  I'm sick. Yeah
• 21:29
  And uh, there was a friend of mine actually told me that day says you're lucky power crazy people don't know
• 21:33
  They're crazy so you need to go to your doctor. Yeah, you're right. I do because things were really bad
• 21:38
  Um, but as I worked with her more and more um, it became is really hard work. It's very very hard work
• 21:46
  But the idea is that you are building a resilience to
• 21:50
  Be with this thing that you cannot control
• 21:53
  And also have a lovely life in a great time. Yeah, and the way I would think about it
• 21:59
  I mean, I'm sure you've been I've been a funerals where people
• 22:03
  Are just fucking laughing like crazy and they just put their father or their son or their brother in the ground
• 22:08
  We have the capacity their heads to feel joy and grief at the same time
• 22:13
  It's not one thing only yeah
• 22:16
  But when we're in these states um, we can get trapped and thinking oh no, we can only be this one thing
• 22:21
  I can I do not have any more room this thing that is bothering me so much
• 22:25
  But it's just kind of pricing that apart and learning to be with okay. Here's this terrible thing. I can't do anything about
• 22:32
  Okay, what's something that I can do I can take a step towards
• 22:36
  Uh, a life I want to live in accordance with the values that I have whether they're in family or work or or life or
• 22:43
  You know charity or whatever and slowly over time. That's we don't give away the whole damn book
• 22:48
  I got a question so I asked you
• 22:50
  That's the whole book. That's my job. There's no point now in reading this terrific book by ushigan's books
• 22:56
  So what now what get it just you're the pressy get it for someone you love the thing of your point
• 23:01
  I like about um like being in a funeral and laughing the like grief and joy being flip sides of the same coin
• 23:07
  My brother who's a very wise person
• 23:09
  Always used to say that uh all emotion. He's a psychologist by started by training
• 23:16
  And by profession now all emotion is arousal plus a cognitive label
• 23:23
  That's very right. It's like yeah, so not sexual arousal
• 23:26
  But physiological or like it's a heightened state. I don't know. There can be like I can be
• 23:30
  This is the stick like when I used to take the bus to school
• 23:33
  There's the bus to feed. It's got nothing to do with it. It's just like the bus is vibrating in a particular way
• 23:37
  When you're forcing my test test right here the radio forcing you penis as a motive so yeah
• 23:42
  But the point is that the like that's the test it that crying
• 23:45
  Exactly whether you're crying whether you're laughing like yeah
• 23:48
  And it comes back to the flatness of the plaster scene world drugs that you were talking about as well
• 23:52
  Now and you make the analogy in the book that the drugs are a bit like
• 23:56
  When you think about doping cyclists and the shorter process on right now and the two of us wrapped so like
• 24:02
  Yes, they're gonna give you the edge, but you still have to work really hard
• 24:04
  They just oh, they just create the space and you can be lens Armstrong if you choose to be
• 24:09
  But they don't make you lens Armstrong by themselves
• 24:11
  But I do like the idea that once if you can create an environment in which you are feeling
• 24:16
  Which you're emotionally activated in which are things going on and yeah, you're sweating in your heart is racing
• 24:22
  That can be coded cognitively as either I'm scared. I'm afraid. I'm anxious. I'm delighted
• 24:29
  I'm like you know despondent
• 24:31
  And it's just a sort of flick of the switch flick of the mental switch to go from one to the other yeah
• 24:36
  So
• 24:38
  Of what the main thing like I know this book yeah is which resonated the most with me because I have been fortunate enough not to have the same kind of challenges that you have
• 24:47
  Is a psychological? I mean is the idea that we avoid
• 24:52
  Trying changing things because they seem overwhelmed so overwhelming to change
• 24:56
  Instead of just making taking baby steps to make things better. This is something that plays me as well
• 25:00
  Like allowing the perfect to be the enemy of the good and like I'm I'm not I'll get around to doing now
• 25:05
  You're under fixing my life. Yeah, just as soon as I have put together this life hacking software Josh
• 25:11
  It's the reason we're all gonna be great to try and draw a through lines of the you know what a lot of you already
• 25:17
  Is it it's the reason the left is completely fucked
• 25:20
  Yeah, yes, no
• 25:22
  There's would not taken care of the one armed, you know braille reading you know
• 25:28
  People that live in the outer suburb, you know because they don't like for fuck's sake. Yes. Just start. Yes
• 25:35
  I'll figure it out. It's fine. It's gonna be fun. You know, yeah, and that's that's that's that's partly
• 25:41
  Maybe steps maybe stand by this idea that if it's not everything. It's nothing
• 25:45
  Yeah, move a little just a move a little bit close. It's not how life works. It's not anything works
• 25:50
  And I like your idea that the way the way to know what direction to go in is by sort of checking it on your own values
• 25:57
  But did you always know what your values know is what if you don't know what your values are you go?
• 26:00
  You go you go to go to save the time you go figure it out. I mean you gotta sit down and kind of have a think about what
• 26:05
  What it is you care about what if they're competing values? What if you want like
• 26:10
  Financial security, but you also want to spend time with your family and
• 26:13
  Financial security requires that you not spend time with your family and here is the delicate dance that we all do
• 26:18
  We're living in a modern capitalist society, you know any society
• 26:22
  Yeah, this is the sacrifices that we make, you know, but it is
• 26:26
  Am I at work away from my children? It's also had
• 26:30
  Excuse me. It's always one of how you frame it, right? Oh another fucking day at work
• 26:33
  This is fucked. I'm not with the kids right now. It's like what am I doing?
• 26:38
  I'm glad I can be here because doing this means that I can give those kids every opportunity they have and you know
• 26:43
  Your parents my parents
• 26:45
  Immigrants
• 26:47
  Worked very hard. That's just how they like yeah, I'm doing this and the reasoning behind this hard work or what I'm doing on
• 26:54
  You know, for example in my my grandfather's capacity
• 26:56
  Requalifying as a doctor, even though it was an eminent OBGYN. He had to throw buses around Adelaide
• 27:02
  Didn't speak English and to requalify. It's like why is he doing that because I'm here to provide for my family
• 27:07
  Where was he? We're we're glad he's working
• 27:10
  Well, yeah, we're not going to accept a fucking Lithuanian certificate
• 27:13
  Well, they only read Lithuanian had come from a German camp as well
• 27:18
  Of a refugee camp. I can't remember if you know, no, no, you're requalifying when you come
• 27:22
  Yeah, that was all the kids I always spoke German and Lithuanian was weird
• 27:26
  One line down the library you start this book is where you talk about life is what happens between expectation and experience
• 27:31
  You like that one? I like that. I wrote that and I'm pretty happy about it
• 27:35
  I turn it into a experience a pillowcase in the book. Yes, that's right exactly. It's a catchphrase, but it's a good one
• 27:41
  What do I mean life exactly? That's what it is. That is what life is life as you know, brother mentioned it
• 27:46
  You know, all the world is a stimulus with a cognitive label to it the rousal, but that's for example an arrays and arrays
• 27:54
  Life is what happens between expectation and experience. So for example, I
• 27:59
  Expected that I would be I don't know like to be truly honest like I expected that
• 28:08
  This I've been pitching a show around a reduction companies a game show
• 28:12
  I expected that this would at least have some leaks and that people would be interested
• 28:16
  The experience is that the market in Australia and worldwide actually is so depleted right now that no one's commissioning anything
• 28:23
  All right, and so life is my expectation is we're going to pitch this thing and it's going to be great
• 28:28
  We're going to be at a hundred territories license fees
• 28:32
  Why the big house order Ferrari? We're away. The experience is mate. It's a great format. It's amazing
• 28:37
  We've got no space for no one here's built making anything, but keep coming with your ideas. Yeah
• 28:44
  My life is the what I experienced after that second email. Yeah, and that is what life is
• 28:49
  Yeah, you know because email could have been brilliant. Let's go pilot
• 28:54
  And if it had been then would you have felt joy or would you have banked it as a normal part of life?
• 29:00
  I don't defy the joy really these days. Yes. Yeah. Okay. That's good because I mean this is the fallacy of being human
• 29:06
  Which is that every
• 29:08
  It's the hedonic treadmill so to speak like when
• 29:11
  When reality meets our expectations
• 29:13
  Uh, we don't
• 29:15
  Delight which in the way that we should yeah, we were we bank it as as a normal part of human experience
• 29:21
  And then when it failed and when it's full short
• 29:23
  We the beat ourselves up or we think yeah that the world is stupid and we wonder why we're in such a terrible predicament
• 29:29
  Whilst ignoring all of the amazing things that we're taking for granted
• 29:31
  I talk a bit about that in the in the book
• 29:33
  I talk about a couple of things that our brains do that it's important to be a part of where off
• 29:38
  Yeah, and that fallacy is is one of them
• 29:39
  I never write about that in the book, but it's definitely one of them
• 29:41
  Well, you talk about gratitude and the fact that you know, or did you have a clean glass of water today?
• 29:45
  Yeah, did you have use a toilet that flushes?
• 29:47
  Did you not have to worry about whether or not machine gun-clad people were going to come and kidnap your family?
• 29:52
  Yeah, those are all good things that any people in this world don't have
• 29:56
  And then you have your other protagonist who is the crazy part of your brain saying like
• 30:00
  Yeah, does that mean that like I'm not allowed to feel bad just because there are people who are worse off than me
• 30:03
  That doesn't sound very constant. The book is based off of conversation. I had with the man
• 30:08
  Got me and helped me helps me stay sober brilliant about medicine of course
• 30:14
  Well, well, he kind of looks like it now. He's got a beard Roger motorcycle lives in San Diego
• 30:19
  Amazing dude, but
• 30:21
  I he told me that sentence. He told me like so what now what like right?
• 30:25
  I was bitching him about you know, I just lost two jobs in a day and I'm not divorced
• 30:29
  I'm playing Brent out of my savings living in America. What the fuck am I doing? He's like so what now what like okay?
• 30:34
  Great
• 30:36
  What are you going to do about it? Because it is only in action that we feel any relief any freedom anything is in action
• 30:43
  If we stay stuck in the the pain of the
• 30:48
  the depletion of our experience what we did not expect to happen
• 30:51
  Then we're trapped, but when you say that
• 30:54
  The only way out is through action. Doesn't that contradict your
• 30:58
  um
• 30:59
  Love of mindfulness of pausing of noticing of
• 31:02
  of being
• 31:04
  Intentionally having intentional gratitude, but that is action being still that is action right
• 31:10
  Taking that action as busyness. Yeah, if I if I just cram enough
• 31:14
  Because if you stop for a second you'd be alone with your brain and that's right terrible
• 31:19
  I was hearing the other day, Oshar. I was like someone was talking to me about one of those 10 day
• 31:24
  Oh my god, I know where you can't talk you can't read you can't think you can't write you can't do any wandering around a fast for 10 days
• 31:32
  Not and I like you can't look anyone in the eye
• 31:36
  Torture your torture. I can't have a shower for more than three minutes your car is probably 47 steps from here
• 31:43
  I'm going to guarantee you put a podcast on between the absolute place and the car
• 31:47
  I can't take a shit without a podcast in my air, Oshar
• 31:50
  I mean who would want to so really you know what I'm talking about
• 31:54
  Um, so the answer but I'm just trying to clarify because part of the recommendation in your fabulous book
• 31:59
  Oshar Ginsburg is with us here with on Josh Seps. Love a reset
• 32:03
  See when you're live. It's great people come and go it does it comes naturally to a radio train
• 32:10
  out of
• 32:11
  I don't tell Josh's husband, but I am putting my lips on his cup. Oh
• 32:15
  The yeah, that is his cup actually so the
• 32:19
  When you're doing pre-recorded podcasts, obviously you don't need to reset
• 32:23
  Which is the lingo for welcoming people who have just joined but then when I was on the radio you're all get every like five minutes
• 32:29
  You're telling people who you're talking five minutes your TSL student roof. Oh, yeah, whoa
• 32:33
  It's in breakfast. It's like it's 40 seconds. Yeah. Yeah, TSL is time spent listening another nerdy radio metric
• 32:39
  Yes, and people would listen to my show for like long periods of time like 12 minutes at a time. Wow
• 32:44
  Holy smart
• 32:46
  So yes resetting
• 32:47
  This is Oshar. I'm Josh Seps if you're coming from Oshar's side
• 32:50
  You should subscribe to my substations. We're about to just do a world tour where we sit down on the Zeps live
• 32:56
  Uncomfortable conversations now conversations people are the world if you don't know from my side
• 33:00
  You're subscribed to Oshar's sub stack. Yeah, on which he talks about things. You've been on a show if you talk
• 33:05
  I've been on it. It's been great. Yeah, it's great. It is excellent. And Oshar hasn't run a new book. It's so cool
• 33:10
  Well, who's amazing and it's about mental health and how to look at how not well
• 33:14
  It's a it's it's more it's as much a toolkit as it is a book. Do you remember I you know, we're similar age
• 33:19
  But there was a time when in the key three years of age if it's
• 33:23
  That's IMDB years. Okay, so anyone's wondering
• 33:27
  There was a time where in if you broke up with someone and you're like
• 33:30
  Someone is throwing a copy of the power koalos the alchemist at you. Yes or who moved my cheese
• 33:35
  Like that. Yeah, and you're reading go the seven habits of highly effective people. I never got that
• 33:39
  I just got the other I've got about 14 the little breakup book Stephen Covey, but that one
• 33:44
  I wrote this book because it is it's it's that version you want this to be that yes because it is it is that for the person in your life who
• 33:53
  Seems to be doing the same thing over and over and over and over but it's just not getting better. Yeah, and they're
• 33:58
  Maybe it's drinking. Maybe it's gambling. Maybe it's poor relationships. Maybe it's and it's very short and easy book
• 34:04
  Yeah, he's got pictures as well. Yeah, and so people need to be like hang on
• 34:08
  OSHA host of Australian Idol host of the bachelor host of the bachelorette host of the bachelor in paradise
• 34:15
  Thank you for not host of the voice now host of the mass singer contestant on dancing with the star
• 34:21
  Voice of Bondo recipe. It's simple. I'm gonna keep adding a beer or maybe a award nominee nominated author
• 34:28
  What in Australian book industry is like a venereal. I lost to labia not labia nominated
• 34:36
  Maybe in the past
• 34:38
  I lost to
• 34:39
  Boysfall as universe
• 34:41
  You know and don't know again. What are I was up against that guy
• 34:46
  That's both books. It's been in the 80s. There you go
• 34:50
  Ah, and so so what now what so but you're talking about being in action as a way of getting out of a mental right. Yes
• 34:56
  But busy in your oneself and turning into a little busy bee who tries to cram their consciousness with as much stuff as possible
• 35:02
  There's one way out of a route, but it's not as productive. Oh, I don't think it is
• 35:05
  It's just gonna keep you running around in circles. So what do you mean by you've got to be in action then
• 35:10
  We've got to what if the if the action is sitting down and breathing that doesn't feel very actiony the first
• 35:15
  Like you know, we spoke about earlier you can't ask is asking a fish what water is the water the fish doesn't know what water is no
• 35:23
  Stopping and just recognizing that you're in a rut is the first thing you've got to do if you ask an octopus what water is
• 35:31
  Yeah, because they're a lot smarter than fish. Yes, of course no
• 35:35
  We octopus will probably wait for you to leave the lab and then crawl out of the fish tank and type the answer and then crawl back here and be like what yeah
• 35:42
  I was here at the time and and you eat me
• 35:44
  Yeah, and then poison you with polonium. Yes, you come back in pretty much
• 35:48
  Very clever animals. Okay, so it is in action. You got to first recognize it. You're in it. Um, I'm
• 35:54
  You know, I'm a cyber person. I mean, so I've 15 years
• 35:58
  But later you don't have to look at me like I can see you're looking at me thinking should I say it because maybe Josh is off the wagon
• 36:04
  Don't know, but the first step if you were in it they step-based sobriety program
• 36:08
  You're just simply recognizing that it's there
• 36:11
  Just recognizing the problem that the first step isn't doesn't involve not not drinking. Yeah, first step is just understanding that the problem is there
• 36:17
  Yeah, first have to recognize the problem is there if you're going to do anything about yes
• 36:20
  And I also like the fact that you say that you should get you get curious about your negative thoughts
• 36:26
  Yeah, which is really interesting don't push them away or they'll get stronger
• 36:29
  Oh, yeah, just like sit with them and notice them like what do they feel like?
• 36:34
  Where do they live in your body if they have do they have a color?
• 36:36
  They have a collection like the fears the catastrophization whatever it is
• 36:41
  Yeah, anxiety. There's a lot of stuff in this that came from I'm sitting here with I'm old
• 36:46
  I've got three
• 36:48
  I've had three hip replacements. Hmm. I got two heaps. Uh, we're very. I've had three
• 36:54
  E-series. Yeah, you had three hip replacements. Yeah, yeah, and the first one didn't go on well a two percent
• 36:59
  I got us to arthritis in 30s. I look real lucky
• 37:02
  Um in 30s. I thought you were 27
• 37:04
  Ethernet years. There's a two percent chance of complications, but that's not no percent
• 37:09
  That's not at all no two percent is like one person on a bus
• 37:12
  Do you mean from the hip replacement? Yeah, and you do two percent two percent two percent
• 37:15
  Then it's two of the power pretty soon. It's 99 percent. It's just certain you're gonna
• 37:18
  Well, so the first one I went through a period about 18 months of like terrible chronic and persistent pain
• 37:23
  It was absolutely agonizing. It was horrific and I want to go see a pain psychologist who was a genius
• 37:30
  Um, I won't say this is not her real name, but she was like maybe
• 37:34
  29. Yeah, her name was Mertel
• 37:36
  Like so like an old lady. No, I got on a young lady. Okay, right. I was wondering why you made it. It's not her real name
• 37:42
  Yeah, but then you like an old lady, but then you're telling us to be yeah, yeah, impressed by the fake name that you made up for
• 37:46
  But it was very similar to the point you miss very sure. Okay, but
• 37:50
  Kind of Brigitte. No, it was Mertel. Was it actually Mertel?
• 37:54
  Mertel is a person I never might Martha, but she taught me all about that kind of thing about
• 38:01
  There's someone to not just name your kid given
• 38:04
  Someone to name your kid Clyde Beatrice. I'm not gonna stop till I get it do it. No, okay
• 38:10
  But because I asked him to be a part of the documentary made about it and she asked not to be and so I don't want to say anything
• 38:15
  But I could cut it out later. Part of it's not a life dickhead
• 38:21
  Part of that
• 38:22
  pain psychology stuff is noticing the sensation because the real trick with pain psychology is after about six months
• 38:28
  And this is the thing I did not know about pain as well when it made a documentary about it
• 38:32
  Your body's done all the healing it's gonna do within about six months after the injury or the surgery or whatever
• 38:37
  Six months is about it. So after that the sensations you have other sensations you have
• 38:42
  And they're most likely not causing any further damage
• 38:46
  But your brain is reading them as cataclysmic chemistry. Yeah, so a lot of the
• 38:52
  Pain psychology work is rewiring your relationship to those sensations and
• 38:58
  A lot of it is just a noticing so with this brings us back to
• 39:02
  Emotion is a rousehold plus a cognitive filter, right? So imagine you're at the gym
• 39:07
  You're lifting something heavy. It's painful. You're puffed. You're out of breath. You're slightly nauseous
• 39:13
  If you woke up in the middle of the night and you felt like that you would rush to the emergency room
• 39:18
  And it would be horribly uncomfortable and you'd be terrified and it would be very painful. Yeah in the gym
• 39:22
  It doesn't land as pain. It has a different cognitive label exactly identical physiology different cognitive labels
• 39:27
  So were you able to
• 39:29
  Manage the pain by just interrogating it. Yeah, sure is about it noticeably and she sure she showed me the difference between
• 39:35
  Because there's a thing called amplification and there's a
• 39:39
  Stipping on mine right now
• 39:41
  There's amplification and there's there's an opening the volume down. No, no
• 39:45
  There's no one where you look or dream my wife would roll over in bed and just
• 39:49
  Brush the hair on my calf and it felt like she was acne with a cheese grater and opening scene from tenet right
• 39:54
  And I'm flinching back from your wife has come over for cuddle is not great
• 39:58
  Are you sure she wasn't just fucking with your very attitude?
• 40:00
  Very sure because it was in the dishwasher
• 40:03
  But it that's not good for your relationship. No, and
• 40:07
  But it was just simply the hairs on my
• 40:10
  hypersensitive they were hypersensitive
• 40:11
  And so I had to reframe and rewire the relationship to those senses. Wow
• 40:16
  And so but that can happen to us similarly like I don't know if you were I don't know
• 40:21
  10 years old and you were crossing the street to go to school
• 40:24
  So just over 10 just when you were you know a few years back then you were walking to school with your best friend
• 40:30
  And a car didn't stop in the kiss and go and just fucking cray on them down the street
• 40:34
  Yeah, all right and just as big smear of entrails and yeah, you know horrible cars
• 40:38
  So that one was about eight well wasn't I've seen shit like that too
• 40:42
  And it was a red hatchback
• 40:44
  Was and we'll say for example cars were a hatchback and so
• 40:47
  Every time you see a red hatchback now
• 40:50
  You are in that space you are your body is instantly there and I know you're 23 now
• 40:54
  But here we are 13 years later
• 40:56
  You're instantly there again right even though you're so far from the danger. Yeah, so far from that moment
• 41:02
  So it's in rewiring and when I see a red hatchback
• 41:05
  I still shit myself precisely run away and that can happen to be smelly that can happen people
• 41:09
  It's called um state dependent learning. Okay. Uh, it's what it's called and it's one of the tricks our brains do
• 41:15
  But this is really important that we can interrogate that and the more we avoid red hatchbacks the scarier they become right
• 41:22
  So similarly the more I avoid
• 41:24
  Uh, you know, whatever it might be that I'm happy about in my life
• 41:27
  The worse it gets and every time it shows up, it's more frightening and like you mentioned the gym before
• 41:35
  You've not trained for a little while and then you go backwards that first workout line terrible. It sucks. Yeah, fucking suck
• 41:41
  Yeah
• 41:42
  But you stick at it. Yeah, you do you start on really little weights
• 41:46
  You might have had a PR of 100k deadlift or whatever for 100 kilogram deadlift
• 41:50
  And you're back on like a 40 kilogram deadlift. No, I'm going to get back. I knew an eight kilo deadlift
• 41:56
  That's great just as long as you're moving
• 41:58
  And but over time you're you're willingness to just keep going in that direction you
• 42:03
  It's hacking our adaptation response. Yes. I like it. The most extraordinary thing I've been I've always can do
• 42:08
  Yeah, the great thing about habits is that they'll know they're hard to break. They're quite easy to
• 42:13
  Reform like they're quite easy to form once you have to do a little bits. Oh, yeah
• 42:17
  My whole life is getting my brain to
• 42:20
  Not do the things that was doing to destroy me
• 42:22
  But I have a brain that will just keep going in loops setting loops up that are good for me. How do you do that?
• 42:28
  You have to sit down and take the time to understand how to set these things? Yeah
• 42:31
  I don't want to sit down and take the time but that's can I do that while running around like a headless chicken?
• 42:35
  No, you're gonna have to start because otherwise is gonna keep happening
• 42:38
  But a lot of this stuff is really complicated, which is what I wanted to
• 42:41
  This should have been a 600 page book
• 42:44
  But I didn't want it to be that I wanted to be something you read it this morning
• 42:46
  I read this calling. I read it in less than an hour. Yeah, right and I'm not a super fast reader. It was like it's very enjoyable
• 42:52
  I just had every picture every illustration. We worked with an eminent
• 42:57
  Axiologist's cool packs. I can put it through acceptance commitment therapy. It's called act work with an eminent
• 43:02
  Axiologist Julie Grove assistance
• 43:05
  Acceptance commit therapy therapy worked with an eminent psychologist and she
• 43:10
  Because I wanted to was this Martha
• 43:12
  No, no, this is all Julie her name's in the book Bertha
• 43:15
  Wonderland and so
• 43:18
  Because I wanted to talk about the thinking line of the observing line
• 43:21
  And so it was a very interesting email chain going okay, so
• 43:25
  I want to talk about the thinking line of the observing mind
• 43:27
  And I'm gonna do it through the analogy of a Labrador and a frisbee. I like that
• 43:31
  That plays
• 43:33
  So the thinking mind is the Labrador who's chasing a frisbee
• 43:36
  He is preserving mind is the part of us that can watch the Labrador
• 43:40
  On the part of the frisbee. Can't how great is that? Yes
• 43:43
  Yeah, but the thinking mind chasing the frisbee
• 43:45
  The Labrador running onto a freeway if it gets hit
• 43:48
  Then the observing mind gets hurt as well. Yes, but when you're in that moment, you don't notice it
• 43:54
  And I mean this will be not unfamiliar to people who are interested in stoicism
• 43:59
  Buddhism like mindfulness. This is part of the training, right?
• 44:02
  Which is that there's often a misconception
• 44:04
  Then those practices that what you're trying to do is to quiet down the Labrador
• 44:08
  And get the Labrador to be to not chase the frisbee and like to have a mind like water
• 44:12
  Labzing in a lab, man. Labzing in a lab, though
• 44:15
  That's not the fear of the point. The point is because to create some distance
• 44:17
  But then you're awareness and the insanity of your mind chatter. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We have
• 44:23
  It's it's kind of interesting. It's tied into how we evolved. We have three brains really
• 44:27
  We have I didn't forecast the game with three brains which was with apologies to Dr. Havhar
• 44:35
  I'll tell him I'm a different story one day. Okay, and um, but yeah, we have we have three brains
• 44:39
  We have this ancient reptilian thing
• 44:41
  Which unfortunately is way more powerful than the other two which came later. Yeah, so
• 44:46
  That instant response you feel in your body is like the limbic system when you see when you see the um
• 44:51
  Red hatchback. Yeah
• 44:54
  You cannot get in charge you cannot get in front of that and the stoics even talked about this
• 44:58
  The stoics even talked about oh when you feel that feeling you've got about 20 minutes till you can do something rational
• 45:03
  Don't pretend that you can get in the front of it. You can't right and recognizing that there is all you can do
• 45:08
  And yeah, don't do anything like this is like when I bought my son his pet snake
• 45:13
  And I'm a highly rational person
• 45:15
  Yes, I pride myself on not being instinctively rationally afraid of things that I have no need to be afraid of
• 45:22
  Yes, and the snake as a baby snake as baby snakes. I was quite snappy and there's no problem
• 45:29
  It's not a poisonous snake. It's a python. It doesn't hurt like it's it's it's it's fangs are so tiny
• 45:34
  But it's it's less painful than getting a jab at the doctor's office
• 45:38
  But when you're holding a snake and it's snapping madly at you and sinking its little things like
• 45:45
  OSHA
• 45:47
  The sweat beads on my scalp
• 45:49
  Like the cold chill of the bottom of my back. You're strong guy. You're strong guy
• 45:55
  Come on kid. Let's handle this
• 45:59
  Yeah, it's nice. It's like cracking a few times. It works
• 46:02
  I gradually using like what did you call an adaption not exposure therapy essentially just by doing it more and more and more
• 46:10
  Yeah, by getting some glumster
• 46:12
  Yeah, you know, so it couldn't and just getting more familiar with it
• 46:15
  But man that reptile brain there at the top of my my the stem of my like
• 46:21
  Recognize the game Joe. I just like
• 46:23
  There is something so hard wide into us to not want to not like snakes
• 46:28
  Well to not like discomfort. Yeah, there's the other thing like we have this it's all
• 46:33
  Part of our the way that we evolved and I talk about it in the book that we're sitting here you and I are physiologically
• 46:41
  Identical to fossils that were found the earliest ones I've had a 300,000 years ago
• 46:46
  In North Africa they found these fossils and we are absolutely identical to those people to homo sapiens
• 46:51
  Same brain same to your system same same same same same same same but the world is so but they weren't they weren't very handsome though
• 46:57
  Where they didn't they look a bit? No, they're from North Africa. They go like
• 47:00
  They're beautiful. You're way more than you were right, right like way more melanin like hot
• 47:04
  But did they have here all over their face and stuff? No, that was time of sapiens. They look like us. Okay. They're probably a bad breath
• 47:10
  They had the same brain. Yep. We have the same brain. We have a brain that is evolved to live in a time where
• 47:16
  Death is around the corner all day long and
• 47:20
  We have to understand that that when we have these feelings like that snake at snap energy
• 47:26
  That's because you are evolved to be like I could die. Just going to get water today
• 47:30
  All right, because that bloke from over the hill wants the water that I've got. Yeah, because a most likely person to kill you
• 47:35
  Was another nothing to kill you was another person. Yes, of course looking for your food your women your shelter
• 47:39
  I'm still worried about that my neighbors
• 47:41
  Fuck them fuck a lot of them
• 47:44
  I see them eyeing my water taps. Well, we're in a deep I have to purge by the window with my binoculars
• 47:49
  You're in a safe you're in a safe
• 47:51
  Serious seat here. I think they can do it. It's true actually. They know they're kind of people that will come
• 47:56
  No, I think this is a swing really seat now or is it probably was pretty swinging back in the 70s when that slice was built now
• 48:02
  I'm not sure, you know, this is occasionally fishbowl kind of
• 48:05
  Anyway, anyway enough about that. I'm concurrently renting so I have no allegiance to this neighborhood
• 48:12
  All right, pop any shit from Archer who lives in the belief in the beachy eastern suburbs of Sydney the lucrative part of town
• 48:20
  I don't know I live I signed my mortgage with a four prime time TV shows on the forum and I've got none
• 48:25
  Oh, yeah, it's good. That's what everything I'm trying to say it's like it's yeah, it's it's isn't a gorgeous
• 48:31
  The ups and downs at the entertainment industry. This is the business we have chosen
• 48:34
  You talk about having a gratitude journal to in order to like specifically know to three things that you're grateful for that day
• 48:40
  So you can you can counteract
• 48:43
  Yeah, what we were talking about about just banking the wins and just and you're like, you know
• 48:47
  Taking the good stuff for granted. Yeah, they're worrying about the bad stuff. Do you still do that? I don't write down the things I'm thankful for
• 48:55
  I ask Wolf and I when I put my son to bed every night
• 48:58
  Every other night we take turns
• 49:01
  We always ask each other
• 49:03
  What went well today? Oh, did you get lucky as I write in the book? Did you get lucky? How did you get lucky today?
• 49:08
  I'm like, oh, that's lucky. There was a green light today like
• 49:12
  I was talking to my brother who lives in the states before I came up here today and I just pulled over down there
• 49:16
  And I was running real late before I came here and I was part of a whole bunch of maybe the lights up the road
• 49:22
  Anyway, there was just as I got off the phone my brother. Big break and traffic. There you go. That's lucky
• 49:26
  Yeah, I would have had to wait another five minutes before I could come up here. Yeah, so put on my blinker and like
• 49:31
  It's moments like that as we train ourselves more and more to look for things
• 49:34
  We start to see them more and more and our fundamental experience of the world changes
• 49:39
  Because it is as your brother mentioned
• 49:41
  It's all in how we perceive it and we can be in charge of the automatic perceptions
• 49:45
  And I mean when you coming back to your point about life is the difference between is the delta board
• 49:49
  If you say between
• 49:51
  expectations and experience. Yeah, isn't
• 49:55
  part of it
• 49:56
  Like we have this thing where it's not just about not noticing that the traffic opened up and we were able to pull into it
• 50:02
  It's also that we intentionally set ourselves goals that are always just slightly beyond where we are
• 50:08
  And live constantly disappointed lives as a result of never quite like no matter how
• 50:14
  I'm reading an interview with Dave Letterman who was my first foundational hero when I was about 14
• 50:21
  Yeah, and I read this piece saying that every single day he feels like a failure going up against
• 50:26
  You're like JLM or whatever it was
• 50:29
  And I was like I mean
• 50:32
  If you get to be David Letterman and you feel like a failure
• 50:35
  Then it should be clear to everybody that material success and status is not the solution to not feeling like
• 50:43
  But it's also it's also in how you
• 50:46
  What how you frame what success looks like okay?
• 50:51
  We talked about the ATD awards the Logan Awards, which are like Australian Emmys
• 50:55
  You mean the one you didn't win the one I didn't win right and I did a whole podcast about this about
• 51:00
  I trained myself to lose it
• 51:02
  Because I knew I wasn't gonna win right so I visualized
• 51:05
  You know, it's always get someone up on stage to to announce it and it's usually some legend of the industry
• 51:09
  And it was double summers in my case wow and
• 51:13
  I train myself going through all the other names because when you lose a TV award
• 51:19
  They have the shudden for it a camera like here. Yeah, right on you
• 51:22
  And I didn't crouch down right next to you and the little red light goes on and I didn't want to go
• 51:27
  I didn't want to I didn't want to even the micro expression. No across my face
• 51:31
  Um, and so I did it did it did it and sure enough
• 51:34
  was good
• 51:35
  but
• 51:37
  It's okay to set myself a goal of I you know, I would like to win that yeah, it would be nice to win that yeah, however
• 51:44
  Does that mean everyone that goes for say for example? I always think about the other nine guys who are lining up against you saying
• 51:51
  Yeah, like if you're window of opportunity to train and to eat and to dedicate your life to sprinting
• 51:56
  Is in the same time that it's same bolt is peeking? Yeah
• 51:59
  You're not gonna touch that metal and so your Krugel was there. So she's no you say no win
• 52:04
  But for all those other people that lined up and when the gun went
• 52:08
  Does that mean that they should have just not tried? Yeah, no, sorry. I mean no who you get to
• 52:13
  Who you become by trying that's the price yes, that's the metal. Yes
• 52:20
  The moment of the Olympic gold stands for two seconds. You're putting it between your teeth for some fucking reason. I don't want to do it
• 52:26
  But then the next day someone's doing the same thing for an archery metal and people have forgotten about you
• 52:29
  Yeah, unless you're on the cover of a witty's box, which is one gymnast right yeah
• 52:32
  But who you unless you're song your Krugel we're still talking about still on telly. She was on dancing with the stars
• 52:37
  I'll show you this bag
• 52:39
  I ended up on a live stream at substack trying to do independent digital media with dry steps talking about his new books
• 52:44
  So what now what?
• 52:46
  Collaborating with Struthless who's an amazing artist. I love him so much. I'm holding up the book now
• 52:51
  So his YouTube's amazing check out the truth is YouTube is real good. Okay, great
• 52:55
  And I was saying earlier because we're perched here on a live stream was seated on high-top
• 53:00
  chairs
• 53:02
  There's a leafy environment behind us if you're listening to the audio probably gravely up to try to get really
• 53:07
  Yeah, well sure was badmouthing Brazilians before I don't know why he was being so racist about them, but anyway
• 53:13
  Um, it's I feel like jimmy glick. I feel like oh
• 53:16
  Oh, sure. This is marvelous. What a marvelous book tell us about the book. Well, I'll tell you there's a tour
• 53:23
  Now what there's a tour come. Oh, there is a joke. If you think
• 53:27
  Last time I did a book. I made an audiobook, which is you read it out loud
• 53:32
  Yeah, I'm familiar with the concept and my wife produced it. It was pretty fun
• 53:36
  Try to make an audiobook of a graphic novel
• 53:38
  Challenge. Yeah, that's interesting
• 53:40
  somewhat of a challenge, but we did it. Cam was the other voice, which is really cool. Did you do it?
• 53:44
  But did he describe what's happening? Yeah, sometimes and you say and then we see a yellow
• 53:49
  Not a real character who looks like there's a bit of a preamble but Cam's doing the um
• 53:53
  Cam's doing the sound design for it, which is very talented
• 53:56
  However last time I did a book
• 53:58
  I did a live show where I went around the country and remember that yeah, like I play guitar
• 54:04
  It was a story-tongue show. Yeah, it was really fun
• 54:06
  But for this one because the main character is a glove
• 54:09
  Right um
• 54:12
  What I'm gonna do and on test I'm
• 54:15
  There's a very sick learning coach. Okay. Um
• 54:18
  I am using a phone and a an a hacked V.I headset to live puppet
• 54:24
  uh
• 54:26
  3d model of
• 54:27
  Uh hero glovy wow on a screen. Wait, you're gonna be wearing it. Yeah, but they can't see you pretty face
• 54:33
  I'll be I'll be on stage. Yeah, so are you wearing it? I'll look like I'm in craftwork
• 54:38
  I mean Cam's gonna join me amazing, and so we're gonna
• 54:42
  Perform the book essentially wow, and it's I'm testing it right now. It's fucking wild awesome
• 54:48
  People are gonna head their heads just explain. I was hoping you were gonna say you do like a masked singer type thing and just dress up as a giant plow
• 54:54
  No, though Cam didn't challenge me to do that. Yeah, I said puppetry like yeah, but then how do you hold an hour?
• 55:01
  Once you walk out there, you're in the thing and those things are very expressive. No
• 55:05
  Now how do you hold an hour? No, that's why the that's why I like the koalas at the zoo are only they only do five minute long shows and seeing dance shows
• 55:13
  It's like great. It's it's great. Oh, that's gonna be great
• 55:16
  Well, if you managed to sort out the technical. Oh, yeah, I mean to say it
• 55:20
  What I did was the first show is I put it on sale before I'd written it. Yeah, and that works. So similarly
• 55:26
  I'm walking the venues in before I figured out if I can do it for real, but I can't I'm pretty sure I can
• 55:31
  Victor Frankle gets a mention in this book
• 55:33
  Yes, it's an extraordinary if you've not read Mansford's remaining today is the day
• 55:38
  It's an incredible book on off the back of the point of that basically your outward experience has nothing to do with your ability to
• 55:46
  Construct a meaningful. Yeah, well because at the time of writing it, and it's you know
• 55:51
  Unfortunately, there's always going to be something in the world that people are like how can you possibly be happy when such and such and such and such and such is happening and such and such but
• 55:58
  Mm-hmm
• 56:00
  Okay, you wouldn't say that about the person who's in this much peril. How can you possibly don't know that well
• 56:06
  A lot of this kind of thinking came from a person who was highly highly trained in psychotherapy
• 56:12
  Being put in the most at that time most heinous things that humans have done to each other in you know
• 56:18
  Not even at that time. Well, that didn't really remains the most the holocaust I think still has the number one spot
• 56:23
  It's pretty good up. There's a lot of things people have done to each pretty fucking horrible
• 56:28
  That we know of there's probably some inquisition shit that was pretty bad. That's true. Yeah, that could be up there as far as on a scale
• 56:33
  It was pretty good. It was right up there terrible, but good. I mean bad. All right
• 56:38
  And also we should also just point out if there's any ambiguity at all
• 56:43
  We are opposed to the holocaust. Oh, yeah, and
• 56:47
  We don't I don't care who knows it. I am 100% yeah against
• 56:52
  Hitler and
• 56:53
  Nazism I stood in a synagogue in Prague and seen my relative's name on the
• 56:59
  Don't try to outdo me. I mean, I've already said that we don't like a holocaust
• 57:03
  Well, so I just want to say that this is the kind of courageous conversations we get on uncomfortable conversations
• 57:08
  Where I don't care who knows who knows it, but um, so he's this guy who's incredibly trained in and I think about thinking
• 57:17
  All right, and finds himself in the situation. He went through four concentration camps and
• 57:22
  What did he do to stay alive?
• 57:24
  He just did what he knew how to do which was observe people and he noticed the difference between the people that lived and the people that died and it's a
• 57:31
  Incredibly those were Jews the ones who died. Yes, but there was the people that limped on his advice is don't be a Jew
• 57:37
  In there if you're an airing. I just want to be clear that I do not agree with what I was watching
• 57:42
  If that's so that would be my advice if you're in a concentration camp
• 57:48
  And you wanted to assess the difference between the people who lived and the people who died
• 57:52
  I would say be a straight
• 57:54
  Aryan
• 57:55
  That would be my advice to you
• 57:57
  Someone's going to come for you to find yourself in a concentration camp. What an old victor
• 58:01
  What did I tell me what old victor thought?
• 58:03
  He wrote this extraordinary he wrote an incredible what called man search for meaning, but he noticed there were people who
• 58:09
  Just
• 58:11
  Stop
• 58:12
  Living, you know, they mega mega rations, but there was the same rations that other people were able to and these are not the ones
• 58:18
  Who stop living because they died? These are the ones who stop living before they
• 58:21
  No, no, no, no, no, yes, because they gave up the white one out of their eyes and and that was it and he he talked about
• 58:30
  The
• 58:31
  What you your brother mentioned, but he was the first one to really kind of write it in this incredible context
• 58:36
  I'm pretty sure my brother can first between you
• 58:38
  But between
• 58:40
  The stimulus and the responses what we think of it. Yeah, all right, and that no one contacted away from me
• 58:45
  So even though I'm in this prison no one no one they can make me wear this thing that can make me build things
• 58:49
  They can make me bury my friends. No one can change how I think about it
• 58:53
  Yeah, and that is an incredible superpower that we assume it's her. Yes, so regardless of what's going on around you
• 58:58
  All that matters is what's going on between your ears. Yeah, essentially
• 59:02
  Artigan's burgers. He sounds like a sage. Sounds like a philosopher. Sounds like a psychologist
• 59:07
  And that's what his that's his new one. I've been to a few my my psychologist sure it is interesting
• 59:13
  I mean, it is good that so he's got a new book which is a graphic book called so what know what how to stop being stuck and start living
• 59:19
  Is this available outside of Australia yet? I've been trying real hard to get it up in the States, but
• 59:25
  The politics of getting your book. Yeah, so if you're a publisher in America
• 59:30
  Get on board. I'm happy to get there
• 59:35
  Last thing I wanted to get your brain on this one the subject of the book
• 59:39
  The analogy of sinking into a hole and trying to dig yourself out of a hole. I liked as well
• 59:43
  Yeah, we can you elaborate
• 59:45
  This was another fun one with the with the psychologist every worked on
• 59:49
  This show this book with because there was a time when I wasn't doing well and
• 59:54
  I was doing everything I could to try to make it better
• 59:57
  But everything I could do was making it worse and I did not understand why and
• 1:00:02
  It's this I it's trying to get you into the
• 1:00:06
  Help you understand that
• 1:00:09
  by avoiding it
• 1:00:11
  actually
• 1:00:12
  Reducing your ability to deal with it
• 1:00:14
  Every single time and the more effort you put into avoiding it the worse it gets the deeper you get if
• 1:00:21
  It's like the great Simpsons episode where we're we're sending our love down the well when sting shows up and like how are we gonna get out of here?
• 1:00:28
  I know we'll dig our way out and it just you're just doing that, you know, what's the best dig up everybody?
• 1:00:34
  Right, you know, and that's and so what does it look like
• 1:00:38
  You know moving from metaphor to practice that to try to dig yourself fruitlessly out of well. You're talking about like
• 1:00:44
  Comfort eating distraction. I like yeah eating corn alcohol drugs anything that's an avoidant behavior
• 1:00:51
  Anything that puts something between you and the thing you don't want to be doing right now
• 1:00:57
  And that could be doom scrolling that could be
• 1:00:59
  Obsessing about
• 1:01:01
  Something online that has nothing to do with you
• 1:01:06
  Um, and it's it's it's not helping us to be something that does have something to do with you
• 1:01:11
  Well, that's also okay. We also
• 1:01:13
  Sometimes do in our line of work sometimes, but it's there's a point where it's not going to be very productive
• 1:01:18
  No, and that point is immediately
• 1:01:20
  Usually if it comes to
• 1:01:22
  Yeah, you're still on the you're still on the app so as barely as no, no, it's like as lethal as possible. I hate it
• 1:01:30
  Because it is a part of having how you get to an audience now. Yeah is using these things
• 1:01:36
  But trying to get more and more into substacking
• 1:01:38
  Into a mailing list and with the storytelling show that you've done as well
• 1:01:42
  It's just trying to get everything out. Yeah, our meta has a great monthly show. Yeah. Yeah story clone
• 1:01:47
  There's a substack there's a substack for that and if you can't make it to the show you subscribe you can watch the stories fabulous
• 1:01:52
  Can they see my story? I think it is up there. If not, I'll put it up there
• 1:01:55
  Yeah, put it up. I'd tell a little story up there. Um, okay fabulous. Have we covered everything?
• 1:02:01
  We yeah, we kind of have
• 1:02:03
  Are you dirty laundry about? No, there's no dirty laundry
• 1:02:06
  Just this is a book for like I said, it's a tool. It's a toolkit as much as anything right and it's
• 1:02:12
  It's also it's not only for the person that's struggling. It's for the person that cares about someone that can't understand why
• 1:02:17
  Yeah, why do I keep doing this shit? It's also for everybody. I think in the sense that none of us has a brain like
• 1:02:23
  I don't think there's anybody whose brain is unruffled and like perfectly calibrated not to
• 1:02:28
  you know notice
• 1:02:30
  And be gracious for about and have gratitude towards all of the good things
• 1:02:34
  It should be completely unruffled. I mean this person would be a psychopath if they were just naturally
• 1:02:39
  Shipper you don't accidentally have a six pack or I have had a six pack
• 1:02:44
  Yes, at one point in my life. You're on the cover of men's health of one first vegan ever to do it first vegan
• 1:02:49
  Must on the cover of men's and we're the six y'all on off those those land waste and I had chickpeas all chickpeas
• 1:02:55
  For 18 hours. I had a six pack. Yeah, it was crazy amounts of work
• 1:02:59
  Yeah, and then after the shoot did you just go and eat a chocolate cake? Then I got bigger
• 1:03:03
  Right, I got even more swollen and then it stopped
• 1:03:06
  But you don't accidentally have that kind of rig. Yeah, right. You've got to work really really hard
• 1:03:10
  Mental health is something we actively have to pursue you know, we keep our we actively pursue physical health
• 1:03:17
  We're in Sydney. It's wintertime. It's cold outside when I'm dressed my son for
• 1:03:21
  Daycare this morning
• 1:03:23
  Singular t-shirt jumper why dad because if you get caught is raining wearing umbrella
• 1:03:28
  Why because if you get wet and cold you can get quite sick because your body is we take care that we don't
• 1:03:34
  fall into physical health probably not help that we can leave that well
• 1:03:39
  No, no, there ain't there is some can there's actually some legitimate question in the medical community about whether being cold
• 1:03:44
  Is it makes you like? Well, okay? Well, you're not going to virus. So your driveway is incredibly steep and it's full of moss
• 1:03:49
  It's a fucking slip. It's terrifying. So we will take great care walking down. Yes, okay?
• 1:03:54
  Because we know if we fall if you've got if you're me with a fucking bit of titanium and you eat it
• 1:04:00
  It's a bad time going to drive you down the hill. No, I've got a car
• 1:04:03
  So similarly with our mental health we actively have to pursue good mental health. It doesn't accidentally happen
• 1:04:08
  We we have to pursue it as we do physical health if we eat right we try to sleep right
• 1:04:12
  Well, why do you not also try to think right and this is you have to work at it
• 1:04:16
  But by working at it and sometimes it's really hard with the climate stuff for example. I was shooting
• 1:04:21
  In Fiji my wife's from Fiji and we were shooting a show over there and I sat there part of the exposure therapy
• 1:04:27
  That I had to do because I was just just getting worse and worse and worse
• 1:04:31
  So that I'm sitting in the hotel. There's a seawall for the hotel where I'm sitting and next to me
• 1:04:35
  There's a village right adjacent to the hotel and you can see where the houses
• 1:04:42
  Were all right the ocean has washed away the foundations of these houses and some of them are hanging out over water at high tide
• 1:04:48
  And these people have they sure those weren't over water bungalows absolutely which people well and truly
• 1:04:53
  And this is you know, this is in my lifetime. This has happened to these people who have lived there for hundreds and hundreds of years
• 1:04:58
  And so every day I would sit there at high tide and I would sit there for half an hour
• 1:05:04
  Being with the horrific feelings in my body every day and I did that for six weeks
• 1:05:09
  And it's that kind of stuff that allowed me now to
• 1:05:14
  Be around and read terrifying articles and go that is real shit that green lands for winter pieces
• 1:05:20
  Well, I'm glad you've managed to deal with the trauma of sitting on a Fiji and resort
• 1:05:25
  It was late when you're traveling 80 crew. It wasn't a five star
• 1:05:28
  It was
• 1:05:30
  You know when you're driving under the other pass and there's a flight and I like five nice for five hundred
• 1:05:34
  For families of five. It was that place. Right. I like one of my crew one of my my makeup
• 1:05:37
  I was college is that always adult schoolies. It was that
• 1:05:41
  Like spring break for grownups like just dude with a sleeve tattered drink and bourbon and coconut night in the morning while the kids piss in the pool
• 1:05:46
  Yeah, that's the best thing about Fiji and Polly
• 1:05:48
  There's a lot of Australians like like if you find your right place then it's basically like just taking an
• 1:05:53
  Outwork in class suburb and putting it into a I'm taking five days with my kids. Fuck you. I'm gone
• 1:05:58
  Yeah
• 1:06:03
  Ladies and Channel persons follow us against the police if you're coming from osher side follow me all
• 1:06:08
  So if you've just joined us then you're on the live stream. Hi
• 1:06:12
  Hi and bye then we're about to do
• 1:06:15
  Well, but we because osher's not coming. I am my producer. John. We're gonna do a little trip
• 1:06:20
  Or we're gonna talk to lots and lots of interesting celebrities
• 1:06:23
  Sam Harris and ritual and John Cleese and Jimmy car and
• 1:06:27
  Would do a live
• 1:06:28
  It's gonna be fabulous. There's all be streaming on your stuff
• 1:06:31
  How many cats is your cat out of how many cats? Yeah, what is it?
• 1:06:36
  Is that a thing
• 1:06:38
  You want to say you want something about it now? It was somewhere off there. It's a Jimmy card. No, I'm thinking. Oh, yeah
• 1:06:43
  Yeah, but what eight oh ten cat out of ten cats, but like why would anyone? Why would anyone know that man?
• 1:06:50
  I mean, they were trying to drop deep cuts of references. You're the one that's interviewing him
• 1:06:54
  Yeah, I was sure that's fine. It was an obscure
• 1:06:56
  British television show that nobody in America and some people in Australia might know
• 1:07:01
  But I don't think was ever televised here. I tried to get it up. If there are three
• 1:07:05
  Brits who are watching this in the wee hours of the morning. Oh, well
• 1:07:09
  But that's the thing reference about a British person. When I did the comedy first world. I don't know twice now
• 1:07:14
  If I made a joke and one person laughed. Yeah, it was better than I go for a housewife. I'm like, right? Yes
• 1:07:20
  Yes, you would be our enjoy
• 1:07:22
  While everybody else streams out of the theater and asks fuck them
• 1:07:26
  That person asked the box office for their money back
• 1:07:28
  Um, yeah, so subscribe on substake if you haven't and uh, thank you. I'll share the
• 1:07:33
  Living be here the book is called so what now what how to stop being stuck and start living
• 1:07:37
  Oh, those decades of work. You did it half post-lord. Your your book ends are amazing. Oh, it's good, isn't it? Yeah, right? We can end this now
• 1:07:45
  We're not going to forward sell. No, I'm not going to forward sell anything. Do we wait for the
• 1:07:49
  No, we just cut off the