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Transcript

An Update on Podcasting · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: I'll never told your protection of iHeartRadio. And today, as
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: we're entering the new year, we wanted to check back
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: in with what's going on with podcast We've done this
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: a couple of times. Wait, raised you know, it's our industry,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: it's what we do. So we're really exacting. Hey, what's
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: going on here? And to be honest, not a lot
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: of progress has happened, and in a film cases, some
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: backsliding has happened. And for this episode, we are primarily
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: focused on some new research out of usc Annenberg that
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: was about this whole thing. So at the end of
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, usc Anenburg released a study about race
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: and gender and popular podcast as they know it. In
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: their study, twenty twenty five was a big year for podcasting.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: For example, it was the first time the Golden Globes
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: included nominations for.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: Podcast Annie, did you know? In their twenty five list
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: did you look at this stuff you should know?
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: Was included.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: A very own og was included as a possible contender
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: for being nominated for the first ever podcasting category of
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: the Golden Globes. I know and they weren't of course,
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: which is really really disheartening. But yes, they were in
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: that list because as they should be. They've been in
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: the top ten podcast for the last what ten twenty years?
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: I don't know how long podcasts have been around, even
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: though imint it.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: Was I think theirs was two thousand and eight.
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: So we're getting there. They are getting there. Congratulations guys.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: But yeah, they were actually in that twenty five list
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: when they were considering it, they were not actually nominated.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: Three out of the six nominated were celebrity podcast which.
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: Is a thing.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: It is a thing which kind of does segue into
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: my next point, but before we get into that, I
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: every time I see awards like that, I kind of
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: and it's not like this is unique to podcasting, but
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: I always am like, well, how often does their show
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: come out? How often does it air? How big of
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: the of a production team do they have, because you know, Steph,
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: you should know, is a very small team. It's doesn't
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: have a lot of like sound editing or sound effects versus.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: I imagine a lot of these celebrity podcasts might not
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: be that. I could be wrong, but.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: Well, I know they don't have a lot. Actually, I
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: don't think that any of them are storytelling. They're just
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: so that while we're here mine as well. The six
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: that were nominated are Armchair Expert with Dax Shepherd, Call
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: Her Daddy, Good Hang with Amy Poehler, the Mel Robbins podcast, SmartLess,
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: and Up First from NPR. So SmartLess, the Ducks, Shepherd One,
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: and Good Hang are all three celebrity based. SmartLess was
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: one of the highest bought out I guess show like
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: millions of dollars. Uh, so it was interesting to see
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: who is nominated.
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: Call Her Daddy has been.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: I think they weren't influencers first, y'all can tell me
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: if I'm wrong. They were really like big on social
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: media and then grew their platform, and then they had
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: some things happen and the show split. Like there's a lot,
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: but they have consistently been on the top, so it's
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: not surprising to see them there. I think they actually
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: deserve that type of hype because they did build based
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: on and I think they were Their number one consumers
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: are young women, so like that makes a lot of sense.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: I want to say the Mel Robbins podcast, which we
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: mentioned before, and we did Monday Mini as a back
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: and forth of like who is she? Yeah, because I
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: could not quite figure out who she was, but she
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: has made a name for herself kind of in that
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: self help conversation as well. The That's Shepherd one is
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: interesting because he does have a co host that really
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: helps run it. I really feel like she may be
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: the actual bones in this type of podcast, but his
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: names carries through. There's a lot of controversies in their
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: conversations as well, but like SmartLess and good Hang, bring
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: on other celebrity guests and depth celebrity friends, so it
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: kind of comes through as like really fun times. Of course,
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: NPR has been the beginning of podcasts, and we know this,
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: so it would be really shocking to see them not
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: being nominated. In one of theirs not being nominated. I
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: was surprised to see that no.
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: True crime.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: Podcast was in here. I kind of was surprised that
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: Joe Rogan wasn't in here. Pleasantly, Yeah, pleasantly surprised. But
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: of course he was also in the twenty five list,
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: and I think you could have gone in October before
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: October and nominated from what I gathered to put other
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: people on the list, but they were the originals in
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: the twenty five as well, So it's interesting to see
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: how this came about. And I will say so the
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: Edison research talked about who had like the most listenerships
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: for these types of podcasts. So they say that for
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: the Armchair one, it was number six among homemakers, earning
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: seventy five thousand, which I was trying to figure out
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: what that meant because obviously they have a job.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: To Yeah, that's very specific.
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: They have some very specific categories.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: I need to notice again, Call her Daddy was number
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: one among women's students. Mel Robbins had the silver highest
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: numbers among women, earning seventy five thousand or more. So
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: instead of being homemaker, who does this?
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: Just women?
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: So there's a lot of interesting statistics on who is
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: listening to what and we're not We're going to talk
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: about this a little bit later, but like, the listenership
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: really does drive a lot of this obviously, as it should.
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: As it should.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: Again, it's interesting to see SmartLess good Hang and Dax
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: Shepherd because they also are not celebrity rewatch podcasts, which
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: a lot of them started out as.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: Yes and and not to get to behind the scenes
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: here to name drop, but Josh and Chuck of Stuff.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: You should know were very early at the forefront of podcasting.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: NPR and How Stuff Works, which was our old company,
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: was very early and their podcast was so popular that
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: they had celebrity listeners who would talk about them and
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: post about them. And they, if my memory serves correctly,
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: Chuck at least like had lunch with Kristen Bell is
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: married too, right, Dag Shepherd. And so it's interesting to
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: see how podcasting went from this thing where no one
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: knew what it was and you know, there were celebrity
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: listeners and now Celebrity in Question as a podcast.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: Right, which, yeah, that's that is very interesting to see
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: because I.
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: Again, like.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: A lot of networks who are banking on the podcast
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: industry banked on celebrities, like literally hung and invested so
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: much money and knowing they were not going to get
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: as large of a share in the profits with celebrities
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: and hopes to grow it and it hasn't always been
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: a very successful I mean, as we look at everything,
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: the way trying to grow the podcasting industry almost feels
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: like it's no longer a podcast, like they kind of
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: defeat the purpose of podcasts.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: It does, and again an excellent segue into my next point.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: But one more thing before we get to it. We
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: our office when I first started working was in Buckhead, which,
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: if you don't know Atlanta, Buckhead is the fancy, rich part.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: And I learned later that this was a very purposeful
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: decision because they were trying to get bought by Discovery,
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: and so when corporate people would come to visit the office,
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: it would be in Buckhead and it was this really
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: nice office, and so it was a very It was
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: a presentation of see, we're a legitimate company and you
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: should be interested in us. And I feel like that's
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: what's happening with a lot of celebrity podcasts right now,
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: is that you might not be making profit off of
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: XYZ celebrity podcast which you can tell a company, well,
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: Will Ferrell has a podcast with us, so we're legitimate, right.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: I think it's the same thing.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: That is interesting as we see the industry grow, it
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: is interesting to see who is doing what I think
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: NPR has held pretty strong and what they have held
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: as their podcasting standards. Companies like Stitcher, which were coming
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: out as specific for podcasts no longer exists. They lived
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: like such a short amount of time, which basically sad
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: because I definitely have one of their T shirts and
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: I really like that T shirt.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: I have a scrungcheet.
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: They have great job. They did a great job with
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: marketing on that way.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: But like companies really invested in things like that and
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: then they came through with like a never mind, this
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: is not as profitable. Spotify bought out a big podcasting
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: chunk and hoping to grow them bad and they have.
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: They definitely have.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: However, they've invested a lot more money than other companies
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: like the smartlest.
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: I believe with Spotify who bought them.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: So Spotify really put their money in a giant podcast
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: like Joe Rogan, which they bought for two hundred and
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: fifty million dollars. They were banking and he's doing well,
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: don't get me wrong, Like they are probably getting their return,
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: but that's a huge, huge deal like that will happen
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: in twenty twenty four. SmartLess, which at that time before
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: this had like I want to say, an eighty million
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: dollar contract with Serious XM slash Wondery slash Amazon.
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: Because yeah, capitalism.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: Monopolies anyway, And it's been a huge conversation in that
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: because even before they had their first episode release, they
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: were already bought with a multimillion dollar deal, which is like,
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: don't get me wrong, I'm a little jealous obviously.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and they get a lot more leeway than we do.
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: I have so much more.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, even our company, iHeart wasn't into
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: podcasts until it became like a big thing and they
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: were like, Okay, we're an audio company, we should have
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: right this company. And then we've changed companies so many
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: times listeners like.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: Have gone through since you started, and you know, at
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: the beginning, it is interesting to see because, like, honestly,
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: with the conversations that I've had with y'all, because I
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: came in as the merger was happening, I was with
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: how stuff works. And then all of a sudden They're like, oh,
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: we just got bought out, and I'm like, oh really really,
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: and everything started changing. I was like, oh no, I
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: was liking the old thing, Give me the old thing
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: back into this new company in which was about saturation
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: and trying to figure that detail out, and then watching
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: what had happened in between all that, I was like, oh,
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: you can see when something looks like there's about to
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: be a buyout and then how I'm on edge because
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: of that.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: I used to have a joke because every time I
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: went on vacation, I would come back and there'd be
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: a new company. So I stopped going on vacation. I'm
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: not even joking. I was like of a curse. I
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: would come back, I've been away for a week and
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: they're like, it's a new company and this is your
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: job titled Oh my god, that's amazing.
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: I mean I yeah.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: So when iHeart bought out how Stuff Works and then
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: started adding in because we were we the beginning for
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: this company, like how stuff is not us, but like
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: how Stuff Forces was the beginning of their podcasting venture right.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: Of their podcasting. There was another company before, but how
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: Stuff Works was the first one to do podcasting.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: Okay, for an iHeart really learned the value of podcasting
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: because they knew it was growth. Don't get me wrong,
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: but I think during the pandemic it kind of proved
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: to be a lot more stable than radio at the time.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: So that was the information being fed to us, right.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Yes, And we are going to talk about that some
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: more in a second, because I think that had major
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: political ratifications. But more on that later. Another thing is
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: that's been really interesting for me that Samantha has heard
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: me talk about it a lot, is that when I
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: first started, I was actually a video I am merrily
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: video editor. I did do podcasting, but primarily I was
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: the video element of the podcast. And then they were like, nope, videos,
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: nothing go away. And now video is back, and it's back,
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: it is back, and yes, our very own company. Uh,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: we have got deals with Netflix, We've got to deal
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: with TikTok, and we don't really know much about a.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: Couple of these announcements came on social media. My partner
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: sister sends me a text about the Netflix and she
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: was like.
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: So, we are we about to see you on TV.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: It's like, hell no, we can avoid it at all costs.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: Hell no.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: Because we were also in that conversation a year ago,
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: two years ago, two years ago where it was we're
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: gonna start doing YouTube, You're gonna have to start doing
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: these things, and we were prepping up. I was freaking
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: out and he was freaking out, and like, how do
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: we edit this? Because we heavily need editors. As you
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: can tell when I go rogue or when Annie just
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: laughs at me or has sneezes.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: I sneeze very loudly, and I learned recently you can
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: definitely hear it in the entire building.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: So yeah, oh no, what a late time discovery because
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: you've been there for having I've been.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: There for ten eleven years. Yeah.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: But all of that to say is like, there are
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: the power of editing. Because I people get confused when
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: I say I'm a podcaster. They're like, oh my god,
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: you must be such a great speaker, you must really perform. Well.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh no, I have extreme anxiety that
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: I have to take my medication for if I'm in
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: front of people, and they're like really, I'm like, I
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: am an introvert. If I have to put on that
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: entertaining social person, I can, but it is exhausting and
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: I need some backup. But with this idea of being
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: on that and then they're like, Okay, scrap it because
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: y'all are really hesitanting, I'm like, thank you, thank you
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: very much too. We're just gonna take your content and
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: put it on YouTube, which was perfectly fine, and it's
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: fun to see. It's fun to see how they get
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: those graphics up. Our little pictures on the side, like
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: oh this, that's cute. And according to that Edison research
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: from the twenty twenty five, it shows that gen Zers
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: prefer all of their content from YouTube, like all of
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: their podcasting listening comes from YouTube. So that's an interesting
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: tape because obviously as non gen Zers, that's us I
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: stay away from YouTube. You like YouTube, I am very
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: fearful of YouTube.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: I watch a lot of YouTube. I wouldn't say I
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: like it necessarily, I.
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: Actually have that as a resource.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Then I have many issues with it in fact, but yes,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: I do consume a lot of YouTube, right.
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: And we also have a deal with YouTube.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: From what I understand with iHeart and trying to like
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: again blow it up because YouTube is also trying to
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: grow their own podcasting content, not necessarily by creating their
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: own but allowing for podcasts to be used and streamed
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: through their services. So seeing things like that as well
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: as TikTok, and it has blown up, like when we
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: see podcast content on TikTok, because I get clips of
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: podcast content all the time all the time. It's interesting
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: to see how the setup is for video versus what
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: we do. It is very very different. And also it
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: sounds like I'm hating on celebrities, I'm not, but seeing
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: their setup versus our setup is also almost comical. The
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: layer of like watching celebrity celebrity podcasters on a couch
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: around with their drinks clinkly clacketing everything.
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: I'm like, that's.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: Got to be an editor's worst nightmare. Yeah, because it's
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: like wide open. They're moving the mics up and then
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: not even talking about the people who actually hold the mics.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: So it was like wow, really, yeah, it really is
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: a different skill set. I'm not saying like an actor
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: cannot do it, but just because someone can perform doesn't
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: mean you can podcast in a way that is easy
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: for an editor.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: Right, right, And that's the thing is like the depth
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: of like understanding what happens with that, as well as
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: the fact that again, video editing is completely different as
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: you would know.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: Yes, well, and this has been a very I don't
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: think our company is alone in doing this, but even
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: though it blows my mind that big companies do this,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: but it's been very seemingly last minute. So a lot
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: of this, a lot of this happened very quickly for
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: the people involved, and it included moving into for at
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: least one person, moving into a nicer space to record
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: in their home because they were recording in their closet
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: and they were like, yeah, now we need video. And
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: I've had a lot of conversations with people who are like, well,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: what if you get asked and I said, I do
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: not have another room to go. I live in a
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: small apartment. This is it. You're getting this closet if
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: you want to try to make it look less like
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: a cosplay nightmare than okay, But otherwise, like I don't
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: have house, there's no other room for me to go.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: Right, And once again like I do have a house,
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: but I am in a small closet with a lot
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: of sound blankets. I look like I'm in the void,
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: Like this is what it looks like. But it is
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: interesting again because it also comes back to we listen
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: my partner and I love this one podcast. I don't
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: listen to podcasts, but their clips come up on my
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: on my TikTok for you page all the time, and
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: they are funny. They are funny as hell, and like
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: I've even been told, oh, you should do it like them,
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: I'm like what, just yell into the mic like I
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: know this is this is not what we do. Although
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: that would be wonderful if that's all we did. And
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: then the same thing is like we have other podcast
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: shows who bring on standing up comedians and they're amazing
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: in their dynamic, and that show different for our show,
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: very different. But then when you actually try to go
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: listen to the long form podcast because they do have
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: like instead of the three minute.
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: Clips, it doesn't work as well.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: It's not what you get from those clips, those immediate laughs,
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: the highlights, the one quotes, and then you go in
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: and it's like, wells, this kind of it's drags. Like
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: we try to listen to them because we liked the
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: TikTok content and we think it's hilarious, and then as
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: we were listening to the actual podcast, we're like, ooh, yeah,
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: h this does not translate very well. And we've had
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: that again because the amount of cancelations of a lot
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: of our shows, which some of them I'm very upset about,
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: to be honest, because they weren't good shows, but some
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: of them made sense because they did not translate into
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: a podcast content.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: Pat yeah, yeah, And we have had this argument for
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: a long time. At our company. They told us we
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: were going to write a book and I said, I
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: don't think this makes any sense. I'm just gonna be
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: honest with you, and I'm not I'm proud of what
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: we did, but I'm still like, it's not it's not
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: going to be an automatic. People listen to podcasts for
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: a reason, right, and it's not that they have time
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: to sit and read a whole book. Maybe.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: I also, again love the critigues of like this is
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: probably a better podcast and a book.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: That was funny that did make me laugh. It also
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: means we really didn't do our good our job because
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: we were trying to be like, there's a podcast, Well.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: It's okay, it's okay, but yeah, I think is interesting
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: to see as the evolution of podcasts happened, what is
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: happening and what we're watching to do, because with that,
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: we're trying not to disappear the content that we were
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: trying to create. I feel like any I think we
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: have a constant conversation about those are like are we
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: going too far? Are we not going far enough? Are
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: we going to be on a watch list? I think
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: we're on a watch list. I'm pretty sure we're on
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: a watch list because of our stances of because of
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: some of the things that we take because as an
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: intersectional feminist show, we have a very specific duty in
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: highlighting that injustice and upholding the truth to that and
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: unraveling disinformation and misinformation, and that does come with a price.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: I will say we're pretty much under the radar, so
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: I'm cool with that. But also we have amazing listeners, yes,
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: who understand and are are with us in this long battle.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: But it comes to doing, but they're so far and
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: few between. There are actually, actually there's a lot of
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: good podcasts, but not enough good podcasts are given a chance.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: And it partially has a lot to do with the
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: fact that the industry is not welcoming to everyone.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: Yes, and also who gets sponsorships and who gets ads,
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: which is a huge problem. We we got a little
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: sidetracked there, as we knew we would. We should come
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: back to this study we mentioned from usc Anenberg. It
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: was a report called Inequality and Popular podcast and it
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: was part of the Annenberg Inclusion Initiative, and it was
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: written by Stacy L. Smith, and it compiled data from
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: Spotify and other podcast reports in the industry. It examined
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: five hundred and ninety two podcasts from twenty twenty four
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: specifically looking at the gender and race of the host.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: Smith highlights the fact that podcasts are increasingly relevant. The
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty four US presidential election is sometimes called the
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: podcast election, and we talked about podcast and their role
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: in the rise of the Manisphere in that episode, and
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: Smith said podcasting's power lies in its potential as a
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: democratized medium where anyone with an idea and a microphone
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: can find an audience. The format but sures that accessibility
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: can help challenge the old patterns of entertainment and pave
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: the way for more inclusive audio landscape, which we've said,
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: we've talked about this before. I think there's flip sides
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: to this. It's a double edged sword. Because podcasting is
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: free generally to listen to, it can be if you're
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: not doing the fancy setup, pretty cheap to get into,
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: and so that's great, but that also means that in
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: my opinion, like especially during COVID, when people were lonely
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: and isolated and sitting in their car and they're listening
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: to these like manisphere podcasts because they can't they don't
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: have access to legitimate news sources, or because now they're
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: behind paywalls or whatever. It is that. I do think
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: that we were going to have to look at that
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: damage as well. But anyway, the study also looked at
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: the top one hundred podcasts of twenty twenty four, and
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: here are some of the stats. Sixty four point one
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: percent of hosts were men and thirty five point nine
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: percent were women, which was similarly reflected over the five
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: hundred and ninety two podcasts that they also looked at.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Despite this being a newer medium, this is worse a
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: representation when it comes to women in film, TV and music,
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: which because the idea was it's new, so we have
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: a job, we have an opportunity to do better. But instead,
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: right now, that is not what is happening. When it
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: comes to what genres women podcast host are most successful with,
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: true crime is the top with fifty three percent. Something
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: in the arts, society, and cultural genre is forty three
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: point three percent, which is I think that's where we
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: fall Samantha, I think that's where we're categorized. Probably. I
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: think so News and education both are at about forty percent.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: Women were least likely to host podcasts about business and
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: technology and sports and fitness at seven point seven percent
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: and eighteen point nine percent seven point seven. That's really low.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, really disheartening. Yeah, the numbers are not good.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: And I remember coming on twenty nineteen, twenty eighteen, twenty
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: nineteen and talking about the state of podcasts and women
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: in podcasts, and yeah, we really thought by this time
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: the increase would be so huge and so giant, and
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: to see not at all and it's only gotten.
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: Bleak.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: We had so much hope and then and then yeah, yeah,
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: well it gets worse. So when it comes to of
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: those one hundred podcast surveyed, about seventy seven percent were white,
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: and the percentage rises even higher to about seventy nine
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: percent when casting a wider net. So when you're looking
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: out at more podcasts, the numbers get worse.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: These trends were similarly reflected as the ones in gender,
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: so there was higher representation in movies, TV, and music
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: than there is in podcasting. Only six point six percent
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: of the top one hundred podcast host surveyed were women
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: of color, and only about eight percent of the five
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: hundred and ninety two surveyed. Once again, this number is
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: lower than representation same groups and movies, TV, and music.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: I want to know if we were in that five,
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: one hundred and ninety two because we were in Spotify.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: Oh really yeah technically Oh well yeah, oh oh really
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: yeah that podcasts are there, they exist. Oh my gosh,
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: I'm not just screaming into the right.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: Now into the YouTube boyd.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I tried to find the list of the podcast
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: I probably could have, but I couldn't find it easily. No,
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: I suspect we weren't on there, but it's possible.
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: That makes me sad.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: I know, I feel like we're left out of a
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: lot of things that we sure.
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: Are, or all of.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: Our data is relegated from twenty early two thousands when
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: the first the show first began.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, that's another pain.
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: That's another pain. It's okay.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, we definitely had an amazing beginning. Our platform
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: was created by Kristen and Molly and Caroline and they
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: really built up this platform so we can be here
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: because I don't know, it's so hard again to break through, Yeah,
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: in these industries, like people asking us what can we
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: do when we just sit there looking at like, oh,
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: do you have a friend that's already in podcasting that's
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: pretty well known? No, thank good luck?
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: My joking horrible answer is always good a time machine,
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: but it used to be wild. I don't want to
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: I don't I don't want to discourage anybody, but it's
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: just changed so much because we do have that long
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: history and that built up audience thanks to previous hosts.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: But no joke. We used to have a kind of
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: a penalty. I guess it was a bonus, but I
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: saw it as a penalty. You had to get a
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: million downloads every month, right, or you wouldn't get like
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: your bonus.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: It's kind of it's more complicated than that, but you
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: wouldn't get this like extra pay, right, And nowadays that
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: seems wild to me, that's right? Or with you a
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: million yeah a month? And now I'll hear other podcasts
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: talking about how much they get and it's their scenic
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: successful and it's nowhere close to that. But that's what
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: it used to be, right, And now there's so much competition,
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: And I don't blame I mean.
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: Even within our own company, I know, and.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: Listeners, you have so many options, So thank you for
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: being here, thank you.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: For listening still being part of our family. We do
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: love that. But yeah, the amount of choices when you
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: go through it is unbelievable because you can just I
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: was looking up Intersectional Feminists podcast for twenty twenty five
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: and that they had top one hundred lists and it
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: kept going. And that's for intersexual feminism, which I didn't
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: think there was that many, but there is, and I'd
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: love to see it. But of course each one of
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: them more like has like four votes or five votes,
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: are like and I want to see more and more
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: because we want to have more and more content. But
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: then at the same time, yeah, there are so many choices,
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: there's so many new voices.
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: We need more new voices. We want to hear more voices.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: But it's interesting to se the as it again, this
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: market is very saturated, but now they want to be entertained.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: Now they want us to entertain in different fashions, whether
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: it is through the clip videos, the the viral Yes
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: acts that we can't just conjure up because we don't
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: see each other that often. Yes, Well, this split second.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: Another infamous story, Samantha's Nos, and this was not this
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: was not iHeart. This was a different company that owned
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: us at one point. But we had a meeting where
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: they sat us down and played what does the Fox say?
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: And I bet a lot of listeners don't even remember
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: that viral clip and said why can't you go viral?
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: And we were like, what you think if we knew
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: how to do it, we wouldn't have done it.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: I was gonna say it wasn't for the lack of trying,
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: because the videos from Kaz House Works are hilarious and
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: I'm really glad to not have had to be a
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: part of that. And God blessed Ben and Kristen acting
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: their butts off for all of these clips, and Jonathan
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: doing their bits and trying to appease the viral gods
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: and hope that someone sees them.
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: And Christin has some viral videos. I know.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: She was really to the point that people did not
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: realize it was a podcast.
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: Yes, and they thought it was just a YouTube show.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: Which was really interesting to me because I feel like
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: I was the person who answered listener mail at that
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: point as well. I feel like they were separate audiences
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: for us. Here's the audio podcast listeners, and here are
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: the YouTube primarily listeners, and that was fascinating to me.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, I remember because I had come in with
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: Caroline and we were doing some collaborative work with a
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: friend of a kind of an acquaintance. We were doing
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: a project that I was really passionate about and I
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: was into Caroline and she was I was like, oh,
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: you know, she's a podcast she does stuff Mom never
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: told you. She was like, oh my god, you know
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: Kristen And we were like, yeah, they were all on
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: podcasts together.
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: She's like, she has podcasts.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: Like she was so confused because she knew her from
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: again the YouTube series, and she did not know that
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: there was a podcast. And I was like, I guess
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: because there's two separate entities and they weren't necessarily trying
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: to show podcasting in YouTube. So it's kind of like
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: and then Caroline became full time. She was doing a
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: video for another segment that wasn't stuff Mom never told you.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I feel like Caroline came on to the
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: this Sminty YouTube show once and even I was like, oh,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: it's Caroline on the video, but yeah, I know it was.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: It was very different and just if any of you
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: just haven't seen any of those videos, they weren't a
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: lot of what we're talking about now with podcasting. Video
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: is literally you're watching a video of them.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: Podcasting recording a podcast. So it's the same episode as
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: you could just listen to.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: Yes, this was supposed to be supplemental to the podcast,
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: and they were short, like five to seven minute videos skits, Yes,
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: but they weren't like educational skits. Yeah, they were meant
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: to They kind of were meant to look like a
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: journal or somebody talking directly to you. A lot of
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: times she did focus on the topics that she uh
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: covered in the podcast, but it wasn't like a she's
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: talking into a microphone and this is the episode she
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: had costumes. I put it in effects like this is
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: where I learned all the font names. Yeah. Yeah, so
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: it is different.
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: Which way have you noticed?
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: I don't know all on Spotify they have an option
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: to see like just music, to see the videos instead
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: of just listening to the music.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: Oh really, I.
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: Think there's one story.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: Well, YouTube makes sense because they had music videos that
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: kind of they kind of replaced MTV for music videos
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: being released, like that's why you would look it up.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: But in Spotify it was never nothing about video. Like
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: they came to the point where you could actually read
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: the lyrics and I was like, oh that's cool. Now
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: you can actually watch the music video and I'm like, oh,
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: they're one step away from doing this content.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and that's another thing that as we've been
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: discussing how this might impact us if if it happened,
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: if we had to do video, I do think in
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: some ways this has changed, but it's just going to
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: require more for a lot of women are people who
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: present as femme because it usually does entail like makeup
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: and clothes, and that's extra time of your day and
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: hair maybe just stuff that men necessarily don't have to
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: worry about as much. And just to like hammer home
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: that point, I was in a meeting once where they
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: brought it up back when we still did video. It's
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: like you should wear more makeup to somebody. So it's
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: not like I said, I do think it's gotten better,
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: but that's just an extra thing. And I even expend
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: some makeup when I thought we had to do it
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: because I was like, well, not ready running.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: No.
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: Oh well It's It's.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: Interesting because we also have talked about the criticisms that
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: women host in marginalists, well they receive is so much
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: more vast and so much more harsh and like intense.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: So having that layer of criticism about the way we
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: speak about the way we pause, about the way we giggle,
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: about any of those things which have the amount of
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: criticism I got because of my accent, because of the
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: way I spoke, the way I would whisper, and being
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: all these things or what I talked about or how
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: I talked about it, whatever whatnot was pretty painful and
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: damaging for a while that I had to come to
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: again talked about this before being like, how do I
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: stop looking at this? Because I want I want the
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: praise without the criticism, and the amount of criticism was
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: outweighing to me what seemed to be the praise. And
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: again we've got amazing listeners who have always been with
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: us a part of the family, but we have people
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: who are comparing us to the previous hosts about not
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: being this person or that person. Me being criticized for
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: having a non white perspective like that has happened as well.
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: But like all of that to come back into having
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: our appearance and have being told that these are the
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: things that are wrong with me, or these are the
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: things like what we look like, what we don't look like.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, I don't know if I can go
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: to that again.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: It's miserable. It's you stepped answer the YouTube comments and
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: it was not fun.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: Oh and but that's the thing, is like, that's what
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: we're going to see, and that's kind of one of
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: the things that we want to avoid personally in our
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: in our every day the coming in sweats and pajamas
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: has been a privilege. Again, we love our job, and
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: we know we have a privileged position, but understand that
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: when you're under scrutiny, the amount of scrutiny is intense,
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: and so feeling like we have to do it no
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: matter what is unbelievable. And then also to seeing okay,
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: but if we have to, because is the tides turning
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: to that point that if we don't, we lose to
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: those willing to do these things or have been doing
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: these things. And again, you know, we lose another marginalized
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: voice because because of that exactly.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: And obviously these numbers they're terrible. This is terrible, so
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: low of a percentage of women and women of color specifically,
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: and I do think it has to do with a
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: lot of things. But yeah, that scrutiny that when you
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: come on you're not getting the support from monetarily from companies,
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: but also just from you're getting bombarded with all this
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: criticism you're not getting Like sometimes Apple podcasts will spotlight
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: a show. You're not getting something like that because maybe
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: you're controversial and they don't have anything to do with that,
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: like even though you're probably not controversial, but they'll, you know.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: And that's going back to what I was saying earlier.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: When you're talking about a medium that is relatively new,
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: that is relatively free, that's a huge deal. If people
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: are like going to podcasts to get their news or
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: to like shape their worldviews, and they're not hearing from
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: women or people of color or women of color, then
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: that's a huge problem. Ah. And this was an interesting
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: thing too. The study looked into guest appearances on podcasts
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: and found that almost seventy five percent of guest appearances
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: were men. Women weren't featured as guests on two thirds
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: of the over four thousand podcast episodes surveyed, and perhaps unsurprisingly,
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: women guests were the most likely to appear on podcast
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: with host who were women. That makes so much sense
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: to me. The numbers were pretty stark too, though, even
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: for podcasts hosted by at least one woman, percentage wise,
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: they still had more male guests, about fifty five percent men. Meanwhile,
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: podcasts with no women host had over eighty percent male guests. Right, yes,
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: and again that's that's part of the p when you
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: don't have these hosts who are going to make the effort.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: I guess people.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: Have a conversation like, it's interesting to see how that
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: comes about and who is asked to.
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: Be on what show?
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: Mm hmmm.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: I will say, we have plenty of people asking to
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: have men, Like, We've had plenty of agencies or men
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: asked to be on this show. And I'm like, do
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: you know what this show is about? Yeah, and there's
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: somewhere it is appropriate, don't get me wrong. There's some
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: real conversations and I'm like, yeah, let's let's do this,
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: let's have this conversation whatever whatnot. But they are just like,
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: again we had that one dude.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it was very like.
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: Right leaning politics and get your women in control.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, are interesting pitches shall we say?
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: But yeah, of course it's not surprising to see that
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: they as guests, even they're not platformed, and by the
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: pitches that we get, there's plenty of people out there
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: who should be platformed and we don't get to have
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: everybody that wants to be on our show or have
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: been asked have been doing amazing things. So it's not
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: because of the lack of opportunity. There are plenty of
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: people out there. There are plenty of women, There are
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: plenty of marginalized people, have so many different types of
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: experiences and expertise that really should be platformed, but they're
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: just not chosen.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, honestly, like you said, we get plenty
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: of people that we wish we could. It's just timing
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: or whatever it is. They're out there. They are out there,
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: and I promise they're not pitching just to us, right,
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: just to only women.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: So this is also a very disheartening number because how
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: are you going to have You're just missing women listen
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: to just as many podcasts as ment like a little
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: a little less statistically, but it's almost equal.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: But like, the thing is interestingly the because we've talked
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: about this before, but the percentage of a listeners listenership
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: tripled in the last ten years for women. Like the
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: growth has been astronomical. And we've talked about this before
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: about advertising and who is most likely buying things and
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: who's also listening to the sponsorships. Hello, it is women,
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: It is majority women. They are the one that are
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: actually making money for these podcasts.
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: So it's kind of interesting to see why once.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: Again, we've talked about this in marketing in every way,
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: when we talk about like marketing on TikTok, when we
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: talk about magazines, when we talk about all of these things,
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: we know that women are the buyers. They make up
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: the buyers of the household. So podcasting, which relies heavily
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: on ads, sorry, y'all.
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: I know you hate it, I don't.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: I also do the fast forward mark that you would
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: think that they would understand having women being sponsored by
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: a company would help them in the long run economically.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: I know. But I feel like the issue is there
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: was a push a couple of years ago to oh,
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: women are listening to podcasts, we should actually pay attention
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: to them. They might buy stuff. But then every advertisement
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: we got was just the most horrendous. I can't vote.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: I cannot believe you think this would fly on a
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: feminist podcast at And it was just so telling to
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: me of how little you actually care, right, Like you're
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: just oh, they'll buy something they like botox, right, right, else.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: This is a thing that happened everybody, and it's too
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: too long of a story and too traumatizing for us
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: to go into right now.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: But y'all some of the things that we were like,
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: I don't think you understand what we do.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: Yes, and listen if you want to your healthy mindspace,
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: you want to get photox. I'm not calling it out,
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: but it was the circumstances.
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: Yes, No, specifically specifically what we were talking about.
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: Yes, it was very bad.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: We were like, you don't understand what this is. No,
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: but that's I mean again, And this could because I
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: was trying to look up numbers and I could not
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: find them. I'm sure I can do a deeper dive
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: because I was looking at behind the scenes of podcasts,
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: who what, what gender, or what community holds up and
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: I could not get specific numbers, but just from what
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: I see as white men. So this is part of
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: the bigger problem, Like the people who are not a
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: part of the conversation once again and not having giving
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: the feedback or not understanding the feedback, are not the
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: people who understand what is needed and what things are
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: like having research, research, what you're talking about, research, what
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: show you're trying to trying to use for what conversation
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: instead of just putting a band aid because yes, stuff
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: Mom never told you comes gets brought up as being
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: a mom show, even by the way, by our own bosses.
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's fun, but show us this like we've been
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: here for a long time.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: Right, like literally, Like we're not as big as the others,
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: for sure, I get this, but we are known as
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: one of the staples. Like they call this a legacy
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: show because of that, and then they use our show
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: to bring on other guests to when they start a podcast,
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: so that we can help get their name out, which
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: oftentimes they don't need our name, need our help, you know,
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: because we are a part of that thing. But people
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: who work for our company as leaders really do not,
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: and not that they can.
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: Again, there's tons of.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: Our there's tons of shows. There's tons of shows. But
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: in things like marketing and things in like collaboration, you
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: kind of need to know who you say you want
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: to work with and why. Yeah, asking two women who
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: are not married and have no children and have no
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: want of children to do things because you think they're
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: moms because of the word mom.
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, is in that show.
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: It's stuff mom never told you. That doesn't mean we're
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: the mom.
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: So we didn't tell you. We would be telling you.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: Right every year we have to have this conversation.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: But it is interesting to see in that level of
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: like who is behind the scenes, who is navigating this boat?
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: And I will say, our.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: Team, I think has been well made and we are
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: a well oiled machine. Like our executive producer has done
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: a lot to advocate for us, our producer Christina has
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: done a lot to advocate for us. Joey has been
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: like putting their finger on the pulls to make sure
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: that we're in line with the standards for the gen
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: z Yers. Oh my god, sorry about that. And I
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: hate myself for saying that. But all of that to
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: say is like we try. We have a great team,
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: So that's for us. We are again once again privileged
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: in having that. But just seeing the behind the scenes
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: when it comes to the corporate level of who controls
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: what is being platformed. I think that's the bigger conversation
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: in this narrative. And it is nice to see more
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: and more like producers and writers and researchers who are marginalized,
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: but it it feels like they get very and I
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: can I say this as privilege. They get stuck into
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: that same role instead of being able to expand and
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: being able to use their talents. And again that's a
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: whole different conversation in that because, as we talked about,
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: in any industry, if you want those communities to be
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: part of this conversation, if you want to grow in
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: those communities, we need those people from that community to
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: be a part of the conversation.
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, absolutely, our listeners are awesome and we love you,
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: and yes, you listeners are fantastic, and a lot of
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: times when we do episodes, I'm almost kind of I
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: feel kind of not guilt, but I'm like, they already
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: know this, but here we are with the facts and
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: the research. So you're correct. But I did want to
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: include this quote. According to the host of the podcast
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: Boy Problems, Liz Plank, women will listen to men without hesitation,
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: but there's a real reluctance among many men to engage
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: with content made by women. So I think that that,
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I think we should keep that in
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: mind too, because that is also something that just ring
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: true to me. Is that feels correct that it's seen
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: as you know, women's issues is still a top like
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: a genre, which there can be, but it feels so
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: like if a woman is the host, then it's a
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: woman's issue and I shouldn't engage with it unless I'm
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: a woman, and that's not what it is. Women hosts
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: talk about all kinds of things.
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: Oftentimes we're like, no, we need you to listen.
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: We're talking to you.
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: Yes, you live in the society man that we live
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: in as well, So.
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: Hello, we are being othered when we need you to
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: be a part of this conversation. We do want to
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: but they'll listen part.
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, But I just feel like that was such
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: a Yeah. Women listen to male hosts, but.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: Men are like I will say, we do have some
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: men that listen to us, and we are very excited
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: to get you are on and thank you for doing
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: so and writing in yes, and we appreciate that we
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: see you.
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: Yes, kudos. And with that, I'm.
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: Going to do something that I haven't done in a
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: long time.
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: Anie, I feel like.
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: This is appropriate, which is highlight a few of the
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: podcasts that are out there that you might not know
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: about and that we want to see grow. And some
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: of them are already kind of big, but you know,
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: we still love them. So I was going to start
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: off with Intersectionality in the American South. So this is
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: actually hosted by doctor Katie Acosta, and it is I
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: believe in affiliation with Georgia State University, which made me
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: very excited because obviously we're from Atlanta. But they do
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: great research topics, research topics and interviews with different people
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: in the South in talking about how intersectionality is important
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: for the South and what we are looking at. So
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: they're from their episode description in bus Sprout, they write,
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: Intersectionality in the American South is a podcast to anyone
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: who's ready to take a long, hard look at the
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: ways oppressive systems land in people's lives. We bring together
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: academics and everyday people in conversations about the intersectional forms
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: of oppression that marginalize people experience.
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: You will hear thought.
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: Provoking conversations about hard topics that center the often silence
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: voices of women in color, queer, trans and non binary
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: folk and immigrants. So from our research, this is in
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: correlation with Georgia State University and their Intersectional Studies collective
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: and from a I believe they have twenty two episodes.
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: The last one was released in September of twenty twenty five,
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: so it's been a minute. And their topics go from
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: educational topics to reproductive rights, to specific indigenous groups light
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: the golah Geichee community, which is a fascinating conversation and
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: if you don't know about them, you really should dive in.
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: There's been a big conversations as in fact, there's an
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: island I believe in Georgia that is a part of
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: Georgia that is currently being kind of fought over the
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: government's trying to take it from the Goliguchi community. So
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: something that we need to talk about and look at.
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: But they do have an instagram called intersect South that
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: you should go check out. I fin ended up fascinating.
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: I did listen to a little bit. They do a
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: great job in doing some of the research I can.
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: We love intersectionality in any way, but in the South,
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: you know, it hits different.
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: So just so you know.
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: Another one is a Burn It All Down. It's hosted
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: by Sharen Ahmed Amara, Rose Davis, Brenda Elsie, Lindsay Gibbs,
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: and Jessica Luther and they are a feminist sports podcast,
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: which we were like we need more of so from
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: their site, they just write the feminist sports podcast You Need,
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: very succinct with two hundred and seventy episode. The last
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: one was released just last month. Definitely you want to
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: go to. They do have all the social media under
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: burn It All Down pod, so you should go and
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: check them out. They've done a lot there. I think
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: they are pretty big in general. But you know we
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: love sports, then we have Uplifters. It's hosted by Arnsas
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: Savas and this is from their site, the Uplifters podcast
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: dot com. On the Uplifters podcast and the substack, I
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: share stories of women in midlife and beyond who are
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: pursuing their wildest dreams and biggest ambition despite self doubt
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: and societal messaging that says it's too late.
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: Spoiler is not.
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: These women are proving that we are all capable of
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: building our meaningful, our most meaningful lives at any age.
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: So it's very sweet, very uplifting, great stories. They have
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: one hundred and forty three episodes that have different inspiring
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: episodes with different interviews. She gets to talk to through
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: talk with many different people. Very cool, So you can
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: go check that out and then finally, but of course
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: there's many, many more, many many more. The Unscripted Revolution
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: is hosted by Nikita Ramkissen and this is their Spotify
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: show description. Intersectional proletarianism, journalism, and Leftism. From a master's
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: graduate in gender studies, Nikita Ramkesen raised in an anti
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: apartheid activist household, Nikita grew up with love for human
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: rights and good books. Being a survivor of childhood sexual assault,
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: she developed by polar disorder and wishes to debunk myths
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: about mental illness and shed light on survivor issues through
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: her writing. Some might call her a raging feminist, and
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: she is guided by Bill Hooks, Angela and the Other
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: Black women Is. Nikita wishes to uplift voices of women
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: in color and media spaces, so she has some really
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: great interviews as well. Her work is pretty fascinating. She's
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: not afraid of tackling all of the hard subjects. Very
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: good listen, kind of hard listen, but very needed. So
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: those are four that we would recommend for now. I'm
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: sure I'll find them more about it before the end
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: of the year.
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: For y'all, yes and listeners, if you have any oo
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: yes that you would like to suggest we know some
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: of you have podcasts. Just let us know. You can
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: email us at Hello A stuff onever Told You dot com.
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: You can find us on Blue skyt Mom Stuff podcast
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I Never Told You.
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: We also are on YouTube. We have merchandise at Cotton Bureau,
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: and yes we do have a book you can get
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: wherever you get your books. Thanks as always to our
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: super produced Christina executive Priws Maya and your concertor Joey
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: dream Team.
• 54:55
  Speaker 3: Thank you yes, and.
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: Thanks to you for listening. Stuff Never Told You is
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: prediction by Hi Radio. For more gusts from Heart Radio,
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: you can check out the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: or if you listen to your favorite shows