Latest / True Crime and Wine Time / Sarah Hartsfield Black Widow Part 9 The Reckoning TCWT Podcast S6 E35

Transcript

Sarah Hartsfield Black Widow Part 9 The Reckoning TCWT Podcast S6 E35 · True Crime and Wine Time

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome to True Crime and Wine Time. I'm Terry.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: And I'm Lama.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Tonight, we are uncorking the truth behind one of the
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: darkest crimes and breaking it down together with you.
• 0:14
  Speaker 3: One case, one conversation, and one or maybe two glasses
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: of wine to take the edge off. It's time to
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: get comfortable and double check those locks before we get started.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: So let's take a sip and dive in.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: Well, hello, hello. Hello. Happy Thursday, pretty lady.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Happy Thursday. And everybody else. It is Thursday. There we go.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: Are you okay over there with your mic? What are
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: you doing? Having a party?
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: It's like loose. It's being all floppy.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: Floppy mic. Oh, my.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: I don't need a floppy mic.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: Well, hello, everybody. Welcome back. Happy Thursday night, everybody. It's
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: almost the end of the week. I'm very excited about it.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: I'm excited.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Part nine. We are wrapping up this B.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: Yes, we are. Yes, we are. Well, you guys, before
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: we begin, if you're watching us on YouTube, please hit
• 1:28
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  Speaker 2: It really is. So please subscribe, hit the notification bell
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• 1:45
  Speaker 2: an episode because we are doing stuff here on this
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: channel every All of the time besides just this podcast. So.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: You want to subscribe.
• 1:55
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• 1:58
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  Speaker 1: episodes ad free on the podcast apps, you can join
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  Speaker 1: our supporters club. Okay. Then you get ad free and
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  Speaker 1: help support us.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: That's right. And if you want to support us further,
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: you can become a member on our YouTube channel with
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  Speaker 2: all sorts of exclusive perks, including extra content and different shows.
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• 2:31
  Speaker 2: and pick which tier works best for you. As a
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: matter of fact, we do member-only stuff every week. Hello, Sam.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: Good evening. I hope you're doing well today.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Hello, Sam. Sorry, I just got a crazy text message.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: Story of my life today. Why, people?
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: You know I'm not available. My phone is on do
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: not disturb, so why text me?
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it's a full moon today or what,
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: but today has been just one of those days where, like,
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: it just... Every 15, 20 minutes, it is something. I
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: want to make it a rule. Only one clusterfuck allowed
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: a day.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: That's it. Well, then we're out because... I got this
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: one stone and I passed one this morning and I've
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: decided I'm going to name it Sarah.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: Oh, yes.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: And the second one will be hearts filled.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: I love that. I love that. I think that's perfect.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: Just in time.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: Just in time.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: Just a good time. So this is part nine. So
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: where are we at tonight?
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: That's right. This is the finale episode of our epic podcast.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: Multi-series on the Sarah Hartsfield case. And tonight we are
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: wrapping up the whole case. The trial, the sentencing, what
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: the jurors had to say after the trial. So we're
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: going to wrap it up in a nice little justice
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: bow for everyone tonight. Because I think justice was served.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: And I think you're probably going to agree with us.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: I am.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: What are you drinking? Please tell me you're drinking.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: I am, girl. Girl, I wasn't going to. And then
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: Elbow Fee called me on his way home from work.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: And I was like, I am going to need you
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: to pick up some booze. Okay. So he wasn't able
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: to go to like, he had to go to like
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: the gas station.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Hey, you know what?
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: To Sheetz. And well, because our one gas station doesn't
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: sell booze anymore. That usually means they lost their license there.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: I was so excited.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: So we had to go to the other one. And
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: I've never had these before. But it is a cut
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: water mango margarita in a can made with tequila. It
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: is not like one of those malt.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: Right. So it's actual tequila in a can. And they
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: sold it at a grocery store.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: At the gas station sheets. And it's 12.5% alcohol. Are
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: they sell other liquor there? I don't think.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: Because in Texas, you can't buy liquor except from a
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: liquor store.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it's because it's mixed so they can.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: I don't know. But he got me these. He got
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: me mango. And then he got me some like peach
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: ones with vodka in them. But I'll tell you what.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: I've had those Cayman Jacks before, which were hit or
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: miss if I like them.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: I like them only if you pour them in a
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: glass and add a shot of vodka to cut the
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: malt liquor.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: But you see, they would give you like heartburn and stuff.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: And so far, I mean, this is my first one.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: I'm almost done. And I actually don't have that heartburn
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: that I tend to get from drinks like that. That's
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: why I don't drink them. Anyway, it's delicious. I very
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: much recommend. Drink it for me. I will. Don't worry.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: I'm drinking Buble poured into my glass. I mean, I
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: know it's bubbly, but I like to call it Buble.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: I like it.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: Michael Buble does the commercials.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: I'll allow it.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: You'll allow it?
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: Same, Sammy Sunshine. She says I like them, but only
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: one or it gives me heartburn. Same, girl. Same. And
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: I've been, I mean, I've been sipping on this for
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: like an hour and 15 minutes. So far, no. Yeah. Well, yeah.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: I'm not trying to get crazy. I got a show
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: to do here. One of us had to be on
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: it tonight.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: I am on pain meds, so no guarantees. I do
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: have post-its up around my thing, so I will watch
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: my mouth. I'm reading all my do's and don'ts.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: Well, so that's what I got for us tonight there.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: So I recommend you.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: Let's get into it.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: Yes. Well, you guys, welcome back to True Crime and
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: Wine Time. Now, last week in part eight, we walked
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: through the doors of the Chambers County Courthouse as the
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: prosecution delivered a relentless two-day evidentiary sledgehammer to the defense's case.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: It was not good for the defense, that's for sure.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: We watched ER doctors and neurologists prove that Joe Hartsfeld
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: didn't suffer a routine diabetic crash. His brain was starved
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: of oxygen and glucose for 20 agonizing hours, while Sarah-
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: sat on the couch monitoring the alarms because of course
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: she did. Hello, Speddy Ross. You're late. What am I drinking?
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: Cut water mango margarita. And for those of you in
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: the podcast that are listening, being like, who are those
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: women talking to? We are talking to our live chat
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: audience over on our YouTube channel where we actually record
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: this there in advance. Another reason you should come and subscribe.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: Exactly. Exactly. Now, we saw the state unleash an absolute
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: bombshell when a Minnesota detective took the stand to reveal
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: the fatal 2018 shooting of Sarah's ex-fiance, David Bragg, had
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: officially been reopened as a live homicide investigation. Yes. And
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: then we watched a cross-country parade of 14 witnesses, of ex-husbands,
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: former friends, federal agents, and family members exposed a terrifying
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: decades-long pattern of retaliatory house fires, staged poisonings, and interstate
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: murders for hire plots.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: She was a busy lady, that Sarah Hartsfield.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: She was.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: She was. Now, today we are diving right back into
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: that Texas courtroom for part nine, The Reckoning. I couldn't
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: think of a better title than that, quite frankly. And
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: over the next hour, we are taking you through the
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: dramatic conclusion of this sprawling multi-state saga. You'll hear the
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: fiery and passion-closing arguments from prosecutor Mally Vargas as she
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: portrays Sarah as a calculating apex predator whose 30 years
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: of arrogance have finally caught up with her and the
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: world rejoices.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: Yes, we do, especially those here in Texas, right? Then
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: we will take you inside the tense moments of jury
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: deliberation where 12 citizens needed just 60 minutes to dismantle
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: a lifetime of manipulation and return a swift, decisive verdict
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: and Hand down a life sentence that ensures Sarah will
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: never see free air again.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: And finally, you'll hear the raw emotional victim impact statements
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: from Joe's family, exclusive post-trial commentary from the jurors themselves,
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: and our final deep dive into how 30 years of
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: unpunished crimes were finally brought to light.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: So, guys, refill those glasses. Settle in, everyone. The series
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: finale is here. The web is collapsing. And justice is
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: about to hit full throttle.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: Yes, it is.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: And Lama's double fist in there for a second.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: Uh-oh. I am. I'm telling you, it's just like a margarita.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: That was a, whoo, that's tequila face. That's what that was.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: Well, just don't let your clothes fall off while you're
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: on camera.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: Oh, my goodness.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: Because that happens to me with tequila.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: Yep. I have my consequence living in his own room
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: over there. You know what? His own room over there.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: I have those consequences as well.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: And there are no regrets.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: Nope. Nope. All right. So let's get back into things,
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: shall we? Now, on Wednesday morning, day eight of the
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: trial began. bringing the sprawling multi-state saga of Sarah Hartsfield
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: to its absolute judicial reckoning. The jury took their seats
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: as Detective Skylar Rocks turned to the stand to face
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: more cross-examination.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: Now, defense attorney Case Darwin aggressively pressed Detective Rocks on
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: the lack of a traditional smoking gun, trying to frame
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: the state's case as a hyper-fixated witch hunt.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: Sorry.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: But Rocks weaponized Sarah's own words against her. Guys, she
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: is amazing.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: She is amazing. And listen, a defense attorney does have
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: to advocate zealously for his client. He doesn't have much
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: to work with. He does not have much to work with. Now,
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: under questioning, Rocks determined, reminded the jury that Sarah was
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: a trained former pharmacy technician. She possessed an expert clinical
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: understanding of pharmaceuticals, rendering specific internet searches like how to
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: kill a husband with insulin completely unnecessary. I mean, yeah,
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: I would think so.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: I would think so. Rocks pointed to a chilling text
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: message Sarah had sent prior to the murder in which
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: she explicitly stated that Joseph's current insulin dose would kill him.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: She knew the math and undoubtedly she knew the threshold.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: And while Joe lay actively dying, Sarah was texting a
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: friend that she was worried about him going low, demonstrating
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: total cognitive awareness of the crisis while refusing to dial 911.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: Reviewing the toxic daily reality of the Beach City home,
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: Rocks testified that forensic data showed the couple fought almost daily,
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: and that Sarah had gained full access to Joe's financial
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: accounts to manipulate his assets. When Darwin hammered her on
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: the shifting, evolving excuses Sarah offered investigators, Rocks looked directly
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: at the defense table and delivered a crushing line, quote,
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: She's only been consistent about not killing Joseph in all
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: of her versions of the story. Oh, end quote. Nice.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: I'd like that is yikes. Detective rocks was then dismissed
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: and the state of Texas officially rested its case. The
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: courtroom brace for the defense's strategy, but case Darwin stood
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: up and bluntly announced that the defense was was resting
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: its case. Sarah Hartsfield would not take the stand. She
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: would not look the jury in the eye to explain
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: the step counts, the mildewed glass, or the bodies left
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: in her wake. I personally think nobody wanted to testify
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: on her behalf. I'm going to live in that world
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: and that's what I'm going to think.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, no, the defense never has to put on
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: a case. The burden is always on the state. But
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: the state was so, oh, but what were they going
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: to say? And who was going to testify? Like there
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: was literally, they had nothing.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it's better to not say anything.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, a lawyer knows when they have
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: a losing case. Yeah. You know, so what do they
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: do when they have that? They go through the trial.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: They make sure they check all the boxes, that they
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: did their job, make sure their constitutional rights are violated.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: And that's all they got. That's all they got to do.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: And that's all, quite frankly, they have to do. But
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: also in this scenario, I don't even know what kind
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: of case you would put on.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: I don't either.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: Who would you bring in? Because the state's brought in
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: everybody and every single person had nothing good to say.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: I would have thought, and this is just me, She
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: had just had surgery. Bring in her doctor. Talk about
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: brain frog from being under recent anesthesia. Pain meds, a
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: couple of, I mean, something, but didn't even try that.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: Nope.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: Nope.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: So they then went into their closing arguments. Prosecutor Mallory
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: Vargas stood before the jury box and began by echoing
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: the timeless warning of Walter Scott. Quote, oh, what a
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: tango web we weave. When first we practice to deceive,
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: end quote.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: Never a more fitting time to use that.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: They also use that quote in the Alec Murdoch trial
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: in the first one, by the way.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: She describes Sarah as an apex predator, a literal spider
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: who trapped men in her web. She is convincing. If
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: you don't look too closely, ask too many questions or fail.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: Make her angry, Vargas warned.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: The prosecutor then began to dismantle the defense's claims. She
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: reminded the jury that there was absolutely zero medical evidence,
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: other than Sarah's own self-serving statements, that she was incapacitated
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: by post-surgery narcotics. She shattered the narrative that Joe's death
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: was a natural diabetic mismanagement or a sudden stroke.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: This is not something that people with medical care that
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: we have, that have lived with this condition for this long,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: die from. Vargas argued passionately, calling Joe's survival of severe
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: diabetes up to this point proof that a sudden, unrecoverable
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: 20-hour flatline was practically impossible. If Joseph had accidentally given
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: himself too much insulin, it would have been treatable. But
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: that's not what happened. Sarah made sure he got enough
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: insulin in his body that he couldn't recover.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: Now, turning toward the defendant, Vargas exposed Sarah's absolute arrogance.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: This woman is one of the most arrogant people we've covered, honestly. Yeah.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: We have covered some egomaniacs, but I don't know. I
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: think Sarah Hartsfield doesn't Might win.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: I think she's up there.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: She is up there indeed. Now, she told the jurors
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: that Sarah thought she was the smartest person in any room,
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: fully believing she could execute her husband in cold blood
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: and escape justice just as she had always done before
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: in her past. I mean, she's not wrong.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: She's not wrong.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: She's not wrong. She already killed a man once and
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: nobody really asked any questions.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, When you get away with stuff, you're going
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: to do it again because you got away with it
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: the first time and get away with stuff a second.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: You're just going to keep going.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: She called out Sarah's behavior throughout the eight day trial
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: as pure theater, labeling her well-timed tears. I'm going to
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: put that in quotes for sure. And subtle glances towards
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: the courtroom media cameras as calculated acts of showmanship.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: Now, closing her argument, Vargas looked at the 12 citizens
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: holding the scales of justice. Murderers hide how they do it,
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: she stated firmly, reminding them that the state did not
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: have to prove the exact second the needle pierced Joe's skin,
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: only that Sarah intentionally and knowingly caused his death. The
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: state is here because a woman murdered her husband in
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: cold blood. You have the opportunity. and the duty to
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: right this wrong. Stand up and say enough. Deliver justice
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: for Joseph Hartsfeld.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: Then, Case Darwin rose to deliver his final plea, leaning
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: heavily into the legal definitions of reasonable doubt.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: Just, if I may, just as a regular trial watcher,
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: if this is all an attorney brings to closing arguments,
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: You know, it's not good. You know, it's like, because
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: that's what they all do. They'll just go to legality.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: That's all he has. He didn't have anything.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: And that's when, you know, like, they're like, shit, that's
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: all we got.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: I agree. So he leaned heavily into the legal definition,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: a reasonable doubt. He struck hard at the language of
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: the formal indictment. aggressively reminding the jury that the document
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: itself listed the exact manner and means of Joe's death
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: as unknown.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: This case is exactly what I told you it'd be
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: in the beginning, Darwin argued. The state is presenting a story,
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: a narrative. Joseph died in an undetermined manner, not a homicide. Okay. Sure.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: Darwin painted Joe as a man with severe uncontrolled medical issues, neuropathy,
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: heart disease, sleep apnea, and a total disregard for his
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: own health who could have easily clumsily administered a fatal
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: dose of insulin to himself. I mean, when you start
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: blaming the victim, not a good look.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: And an incident that literally no one with any medical
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: experience or the medical examiner, pathologist, literally nobody has ever
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: seen this happen before. But you're right. That makes the
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: most sense.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: I think, yeah.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: You know, and he had type one diabetes, meaning what?
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: He's lived with this most of his life. Right. Right.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: So like, yeah, you're right, buddy. Totally. That makes sense.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, he's doing his job.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: He is doing his job, but. Now, he did concede
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: that while Sarah's failure to render aid or check on
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: her husband for 20 hours is, quote, is not good practice,
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: end quote. I mean, like what? The jury charge explicitly
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: stated that a failure to act is not a crime
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: under Texas murder statutes. statutes. Now, the duty to act
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: is a very interesting legal argument that we're not going
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: to get into today, but it's one that gets brought
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: up very often because it's interesting. There's both sides that both, well,
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of sides.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: He accused the prosecution of performing a legal sleight of hand,
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: parading Sarah's estranged children to the stand Merely to paint
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: her as a cruel person. Because she is, sir.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: Right. You didn't need the children for that.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: Now, the state is like a magician, Darwin told the jury.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: We all like magic.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: It's cool.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: But magic is not real. Sarah is not on trial
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: for being a bad person. She is on trial for murder.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: And there is absolutely zero proof, not a single witness
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: who saw her administer insulin. Who else was there? Casper,
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: the friend, the ghost.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: It's such a desperate closing argument. I've seen this again
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: in cases before where they bring up a reasonable doubt
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: and then they say, well, nobody actually saw the murder happen.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, buddy, nobody usually sees the murder happens anyway. Okay.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: I've seen this argument. That's the whole point of murder.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: You want to get away with it.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: That's when you know that even the lawyer kind of
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: knows he has a losing case. Now, Darwin closed by
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: claiming the prosecution had literally thrown the kitchen sink at
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: the wall, hoping something sticks, urging the jury to return
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: a verdict of not guilty with a clear conscience. I've
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: seen trials like that. This does not sound like one
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: of those. I've seen those trials where the prosecutor's are desperate.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: And I disagree with them.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: I disagree with that in this, I mean, 20 hours
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: of his dot com going off.
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Mary asked, can we watch it? Unfortunately, this wasn't televised.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: I think her sentencing might've been or something.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Maybe the closing was, I believe.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: The sentencing was, but nothing else was. Cause I would
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: have really liked to have seen this trial, you know,
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: I would have gone.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: In person if I would have known.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it would have been really interesting to hear some
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: of the testimony firsthand, but unfortunately, no.
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: If you want to know more, you can go here
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: on the YouTubes, find KPRC to Houston. They did a
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: daily blog because, like, we left out a lot of
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: things the children said that she had done to them because...
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: It just, it wasn't relevant to this, but you can
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: basically see the trial happen in that blog.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they did a really great job.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: They did.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: That's where you are, Holly. Oh.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: Are you in Baytown, Holly?
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: Oh, no.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: I'm in Baytown at least once a month. We might
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: need to do a meetup or something.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: There you go.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: If anybody else is in the area.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You have a whole bunch of Texas friends. I know.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: We have to do a Texas. You're in Houston. Oh,
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: that's much better than Baytown.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: Not much better.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: Speaking of that, real quick before we get into this.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: So I met somebody this weekend at training who was
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: from Kingwood. And he asked where I grew up. And
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: I told him North Shore. He goes, oh, you were
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: on the drug side. And I was like, east side.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: That's it.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: Drug side. Because now that's what it's called. Drug side.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: Hmm.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: So sad.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: Holly says Houston. She's in Houston. Close enough.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: Close enough. The judge handed the case over to the jury.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: The courtroom fell into a heavy, suffocating silence. Observers, journalists,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: and Joe's grieving family prepared themselves for a grueling multi-day deliberation,
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: but they didn't even have time to finish lunch. Holly,
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: you're from North Shore. You're not in North Shore anymore. Oh,
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: my word. Okay. Are you on our Discord? You might
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: need to come over to our Discord so we can chat.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: Born and raised in North Shore my whole life.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: I don't remember what the command is for the Discord.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: Sam's watching. Maybe she does. If not, it's one of these.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: How about we do this and see it?
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: Lig is going to teach me all the commands. She
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: has agreed that she would do that.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: Oh, I got it right. Yeah, there you go. You
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: can join our Discord community if you want. You can
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: find us all over there talking about all sorts of
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: crazy things. Now, at 2.28 p.m., exactly one hour after
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: walking into the deliberation room, the jury had a verdict.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: The sheer speed of the decision sent a shockwave through
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: the courtroom. Sarah Hartsfeld was brought back into the room,
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: her face mask-like and her hands tightly clenched. The court
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: clerk read the decision aloud into the silent room. Guilty
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: of murder.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: Sorry, I know we shouldn't celebrate, but I'm going to
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: celebrate for her.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Justice being served. Now, whenever the verdict returns that quickly...
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: It is, you know. Now, I have seen the verdicts
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: be not guilty, but you know that going in, basically. Right.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: Where it's going. 60 minutes. And so far, yeah.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: The web had finally collapsed on the spider. And my
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: dogs are interested in hearing what we're saying. After decades
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: of bias.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: They're just celebrating.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: They're just celebrating with us.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: Good job, Eric. Good job. They're like, my God, it's
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: been weeks of this story and we finally have gotten there.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: A Texas jury needed only 60 minutes to review the
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: digital blueprint of her execution and convict her.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: Now, the trial transitioned seamlessly into the brutal emotional territory
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: of the sentencing phase. Because Sarah was convicted of first-degree murder,
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: she faced a penalty range spanning anywhere from five to
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: 99 years or life in prison.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: Now, the state immediately recalled three of her biological children
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: to the stand. Released from the evident restrictions of the
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: guilt-innocence phase, her daughters and son laid bare the true
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: psychological horror growing up under Sarah's roof. They detailed a harrowing,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: lifelong gauntlet of domestic abuse, physical terror, and systemic psychological torture. Guys,
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: she was diabolical.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: The jury also heard a tragic piece of historical context
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: from Sarah's former foster mother, who testified about the defendant's
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: deeply troubled childhood. early behavioral red flags, and her frantic,
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: unstable pattern of jumping into multiple volatile marriages.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: But who made the marriages volatile?
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: Well, she's not great. She's not great at anything, to
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: be quite honest with you.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: So As the sun set on day eight, the jury
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: was sent home to rest. They would return Thursday morning
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: for final closing arguments in the punishment phase, tasked with
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: deciding exactly how many decades Sarah Hartsfield would spend locked
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: inside a concrete cell. It's one cool thing about Texas
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: that the jury gets to decide the sentence.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: I was going to say, that's not very common. What's
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: the other state that does that? I want to say Kentucky, maybe?
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: There's a few states where, yeah, the jury decides that,
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: which I think is interesting. Most states don't do it
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: that way, but some do. Except for if they're a
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: death penalty state. Right. Then the jury decides whether or
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: not it'll be death penalty or not. That's the only
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: exception for most of them. But I do think that's interesting.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't think I like it, to
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: be quite honest with you.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: They give you the guidelines. to go by. So that's
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: why I like it. Now, I do believe if they
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: cannot agree on the sentence, that then the judge.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: It goes to the judge. Okay. So there's not an
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: opportunity for it to like, just be like declared. Mistrial
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: is not the right word, but you know what I mean?
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: They either have to all agree or it may be
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: the majority, but I know the judge can get involved.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: This brain's not with it.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: Because, I mean, listen, it's already a giant burden on
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: a jury to have to determine guilt or innocence. And
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: then I think that's an even bigger burden to put
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: on a jury to determine the penalty of that. I mean,
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: you're already asking these people to have to live with
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: a decision that they made. And numerous people that have
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: served on juries will tell you it does weigh on you,
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: like regardless. Even if you think that person is completely guilty,
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: it's going to weigh on you. Um, so I think
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: adding that additional burden, I don't know if I really
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: think that that's fair, but you know, I, they've been
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: doing it for a long time in a few States,
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: so I don't know. Now on the ninth and final
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: day of the trial, after nearly two years behind bars
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: and a lifetime spent dodging the consequences of her actions,
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: Sarah Hartsfeld sat under the harsh fluorescent lights of the
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: Chambers County courtroom, waiting to find out if she would
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: ever breathe free air again.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: The morning began with the final closing arguments in that
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: penalty phase. Prosecutor Mallory Vargas stepped before the jury box,
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: and she did not mince words, explicitly calling Sarah what
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: her trail of bodies always suggested. Vargas urged the jury
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: to hand down a sentence of life in prison, declaring
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: it the only acceptable outcome.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: This is the only clear way for Chambers County to
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: send a clear and decisive message to serial killers, Vargas argued.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: She stated that Sarah's actions had forever infected and altered
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: the core memories of everyone who loved Joe Hartsfeld. proving
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: she was entirely unfit to ever return to a civilized community,
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: which I agree. Yeah.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: Now, defense attorney Case Darwin attempted to find a shred
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: of humanity to exploit. He pleaded with the jurors to
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: grant a number of years that would mathematically allow her
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: the possibility of parole before death, giving her a distant
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: milestone to work towards.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: Okay. Darwin acknowledged that Sarah's children obviously despise her, having
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: just spent the previous afternoon detailing her abuse, but he
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: argued that her 20 years of military service in the U.S.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: Army should carry weight. Really? I mean, he's got to
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: do his job, but like, come on. You're right. Hey,
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: forget she abused her children and was horrible to all
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: her exes and shot one of her exes and murdered another.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: She was a veteran.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: She burned down her grandmother's house and her nephew was
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: in that house, guys. But let's talk about her military career.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: Yes. Which makes it work.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: That twists everything.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: To me, whenever... It makes it so much worse. When
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: we were covering the trial of New Hampshire versus Dustin
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: Duren last fall, he too was in the military and
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: he shot the mother of his children. He claimed in
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: self-defense and they try to use this military background. And
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: it was the only trial I covered that year where
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: I pulled the audience, you know, guilty, not guilty. And
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: it was a hundred percent guilty. And they used his
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: military background as though that should mean something. And it's like, no,
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: you should have even known even better.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: You should have known. Exactly.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: Like, I don't know. To me, like, and I don't
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: think that takes away from somebody's service, of course. Or
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: that things happen in the military that change people.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: But that's a huge responsibility. And you are trained to
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: know better. And her first.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: Arson was before she was in the military.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: Let's not forget. Absolutely. She started that before she went
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: into the military.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. I mean, he had to do what he had
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: to do, but it wasn't a great argument.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: And then he touched upon her deeply fractured upbringing, noting
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: that she was a child victim of sexual abuse who
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: had been discarded into the foster care system, while conceding
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: that Sarah was a convicted murderer who needed decades in
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: a cell to think about what she had done. He
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: urged them not to close the door on her life permanently.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: Why not?
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: She did. Then the jury walked back into the deliberation
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: room to determine her fate. The public clock ticked down
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: for exactly 30 minutes. At 10 a.m., the buzzer sounded
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: and the jury had reached a unanimous decision with terrifying speed.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: Sarah stood as the verdict was read. Life in prison continues.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: Plus a maximum $ 10, 000 fine.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: Under Texas law, Sarah would have to serve a mandatory
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: minimum of 30 calendar years before she would even be
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: eligible to look a parole board in the eye. And
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: at that point, she would be well into her late 70s.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: And I'm going to just tell you, the parole board
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: in Texas, she's not getting out on her first or
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: second attempt.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: No. Not if that's the first one she can go
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: out for. I doubt it. Unless she has like some
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: serious health issues. Right. Because I'll be honest, they don't
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: like to pay with it. Compassion. They don't want to
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: pay for a medical. No. And it's really risky, honestly,
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: because you have to transport them to hospital. Yeah. It's
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: a whole thing. Not saying I agree. I'm just saying
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: that's the reality. Now, with the sentence officially handed down,
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: Joe's family finally took the microphone for their victim impact statements.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: Joe's brother, Tony, and his sister, Jeannie Hartsfeld, stood at
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: the podium just feet away from the defense table. True
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: to form, Sarah stubbornly refused to turn her head, staring
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: fixedly ahead to block them out. So much for remorse, huh?
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Jeannie Hartsfeld directed her grief straight at the back
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: of Sarah's head. describing her as a literal monster who
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: had left a calculated smoking tale of destruction in almost
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: everyone's life. Jeannie stated that no amount of childhood trauma
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: or excuses could ever balance the irreversible damage Sarah had
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: inflicted on their family, explaining that Sarah's intense hatred for
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: them stems from from her sheer jealousy over the deep,
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: unbreakable bond the Hartsfield family shared. You chose the wrong
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: brother to kill, Jeannie told her fiercely. You didn't defeat us.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: We keep Joe alive in our memories.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: Jeannie noted that she would pray for Sarah's soul, praying
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: she might actually grow into the devout Christian woman she
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: had always performatively claimed to be before thanking the multi-state
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: coalition of detectives, prosecutors, and witnesses. She expressed profound gratitude
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: that Chambers County had delivered justice, not just for Joe,
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: but a delayed surrogate justice for every single victim negatively
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: impacted by Sarah's actions over the past 30 years. Joe's mother,
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: Helen Hartsfeld, sat in the gallery too broken by the
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: ordeal to speak. And I hope everyone, all of the
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: victims in the story are doing well and Jeannie and
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: everyone else, but there are so many victims of Sarah Hartsfeld.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: They're And it would be great if we could persecute
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: her for every single crime she did. Unfortunately, that is
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: not realistic. It's not. One, because of money. Two, some
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: are statutes of limitations. Right. But I think, and I
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: don't want to speak for anyone involved here, but with
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: the trial, I feel like they did, I mean, a
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: lot of victims of hers were called to testify. They were.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: They were.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: And I don't know if that gave them any closure
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: or not, but I am glad the state brought attention
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: to them and let them say what happened. And maybe
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: that's not enough, but at least that was done in
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: this case.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: At least she didn't get away with it again.
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: No.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: Following the formal adjournment, jurors Tom Stradelli, And an anonymous
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: colleague spoke candidly with them immediately, pulling back the curtain
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: on what truly happened behind the locked doors of the
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: deliberation room.
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: I love when you speak out. I do too.
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: And I love what he shares with us.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: And they don't have to speak out. It's their right
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: not to, respectively. But when they do, girl, let me
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: tell you what, I'm like, tell me everything. Tell me
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: all of it. Because, you know, you wonder when you
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: watch trials all the time, like we do, you know,
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: you wonder what the jury is thinking the whole time.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: And there's a lot of stuff they don't know that
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: we do just being spectators because we're allowed to look
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: at things. Right. So to hear what their thought process
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: is afterwards, whether you agree with their decision or not,
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: it's always very interesting because. Any lawyer will tell you,
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: no two juries are the same. That's right. You can't
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: predict them. You can't predict what their verdict's going to be.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: You can't predict anything about them.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: They can try, but you can't.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: So I always like it. Plus, you know, I'm nosy.
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: I'll be honest. I'm not ashamed to admit it. Now,
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: the jurors shattered the illusion that the initial guilty verdict
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: on day eight was a complex, hard-fought debate.
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: While the public clock showed they took an hour, well,
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: they revealed that they had actually spent the bulk of
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: that time eating a catered lunch.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: We took an initial vote just to see where we were.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: And it was by hand, juror Tom Stradelli recounted. Initially,
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: who says guilty? Everybody raised their hand. We were all shocked.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: It felt a little awkward that quickly. It felt awful sudden.
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, and there's free lunch. You've earned it, is
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: all I'm saying.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: That tells you that the evidence, the facts.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, the jurors spent a few minutes briefly discussing
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: whether anyone had second thoughts or wanted to review specific
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: medical details further. But realize the conclusion was ironclad. I mean,
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: and that's good. They tried to have a discussion. Like,
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: are we sure? They did the right thing. Yes, absolutely.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: And quote, there was nothing substantive that was going to
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: change anybody's mind, Shandelli said. So at that point, we
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: just hit the button on the wall. The true act
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: of deliberation had taken less than 15 minutes.
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: That says a lot.
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: When asked what piece of evidence completely sealed her fate,
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: both jurors pointed directly to the digital forensic data recovered
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: from Sarah's iPhone by Detective Rocks. I didn't even know
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: that existed, Strindelli admitted. Obviously, making herself the legacy contact
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: for his Apple information, all that while he's unconscious, that
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: was a solidifying factor for me. Me too.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: I was going to say, I'd have to agree with
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: him there. I wouldn't have known that because I'm not
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: an iPhone person. But the Dex, I mean, there are
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: a lot of things. But this is why I love
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: when jurors speak out because they tell you this was
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: their thing, you know, because we all have different points
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: where we're like, that's enough for me and we're good.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: So I didn't know about that either until we started
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: researching this case because I'm not an Apple user of anything.
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: I was like, what? Now, the jurors also noted that
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: Sarah's courtroom armor was completely transparent. You don't say. Throughout
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: the long, grueling days of complex medical data and emotional
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: testimony from 18 separate witnesses, Sarah frequently rolled her eyes,
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: acted performatively shocked, and openly scoffed as if her own
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: children were We're fabricating stories on the stand.
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: That.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: Yikes.
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: Is horrendous for her children.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Now, listen, a lot of people, when they watch trials,
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: the defendant makes no emotion whatsoever. And they are told
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: not to.
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: Every single one. This is why. Don't. Exactly. Because this
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: is why, right? Fix your face. Fix your face. Now,
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: it still comes across as, I mean, I've heard jurors
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: say before in other trials, well, he showed no emotion.
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, can at.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: Least have a couple of tears rolling down your face?
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: And we're not talking Jodi Arias tears.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: No.
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: We're talking real.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: Genuineness. Yeah. Genuineness. But to roll your eyes, girl, I
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: would never make it if I was on trial for murder.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: I'd say. They'd be like, can I get one of
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: those spit masks to hide my face?
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: They'd be like, could you just Botox her face so
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: nothing can move, so there would be no expression? That's
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: what they would have to do for us.
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: Probably. Probably. Everything about her. To scoff at your children. Children.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: Of course she did. Of course she did.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: Just traumatizing and terrorizing them more. Ugh. She showed who
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: she really was. She did. Mm-hmm. Everything about her was
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: an act, the anonymous juror stated. Not only does she
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: not get it, she doesn't even get that she doesn't
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: get it. She thinks she's done nothing wrong.
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: That's the most poignant line of this entire story, I think.
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: And Strindelli agreed, adding that if Sarah had taken the stand,
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: she would have only dug her own grave deeper.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: I wish she had.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: I want to know why they didn't, why they took
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: the death penalty off the table. I really would like
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: to know that.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: I think because it was a little too risky. It's
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: somebody dying by insulin. Like we see that, but death
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: penalty holds a whole lot higher standard.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, she's not getting out.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: No, no, no. But, you know, this whole, well, maybe
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: it could, like, the state was not confident enough to
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: go after the death penalty for this. And I agree because,
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: as the defense does mention, all right, the cause and
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: manner of death is unknown. And that's not, they know
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: he died from insulin overdose.
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: Right, but they don't know.
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: Whether it was homicide, accidental, or not.
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: That's going to play a role in why she didn't
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: get a death penalty. It's too, too risky to lose
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: the whole case. Right.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: You don't need a Casey Anthony.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: No, we don't. No, they had it very solid for
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: first degree murder. Oh, they did just fine. In my opinion.
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: So where are we here? So reflecting on her dark history,
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: including the uncharged fatal shooting of her fiance in Minnesota
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: and and her alleged murder-for-hire plots, the jurors expressed relief
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: that they had permanently ended her run. During punishment deliberations,
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: some jurors briefly considered a 50-year sentence to leave a
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: door open for her children, which is wild.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: Which the children are probably going, uh, no thank you.
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, we'll get into that in a second, but okay.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: But ultimately realized the public danger she posed was far
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: too absolute. Absolutely. I mean, this pattern of behavior. Now,
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: I'll say this. I do. I can't imagine how complicated
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: it is for her children.
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: Oh, I agree.
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: Because I am sure there's a lot of conflicting feelings.
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: It's your own mother. It's your own mother. No matter
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: how horrible she is, there's still that inner child of you, right? Mm-hmm. Um,
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: and so like, I kind of get the compassion of
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: that juror, but also like it's complicated. They can still
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: have a relationship with her in prison if they want to,
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: if they want, if they want to, she can try
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: to call them all they want. She can try to
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: write them all she wants to. But then that leaves
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: the choice up to her children to decide if they
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: want a relationship with her or not.
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: Getting out in 50 years, she could also get married again.
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: Oh, she's not even getting married. She'll burn any place down.
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah. She'll do whatever it takes to get
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: her way. I mean, it's crazy.
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: Get her disciplinary actions, because I bet they're vast.
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: Well, maybe. I mean, she did thrive in the military
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: setting because of its rigidity and what she might be
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: thriving in prison because she's used to that.
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: Well, but she was in the military still, I believe,
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: during one of the arsons.
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, I know. So she didn't drive well. But
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: when you have to comply with the system.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: That's true.
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Those are very different.
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: Very different.
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: Things. True.
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: She would probably have killed somebody else. Strandley conceded flatly.
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: I would have worried about that had we even remotely
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: considered setting her free. This was the first time in
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: real life that I saw bad people doing bad things.
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: I am glad that Chambers County put their foot down
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: and said, this is as far as this woman's going
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: and we're stopping her now.
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And he's not wrong. She absolutely would have continued
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: this behavior. So, like I said, it's a big burden
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: to put on civilians serving on a jury, but they
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: got it right. They got it right. They're right.
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: Now you know why I want to be on a
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: jury so bad in Texas.
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: I would, I mean, I would, I would struggle.
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: I don't want it to be a case like this.
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: I don't want it to be this complex.
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: No, but jury duty is a fascinating thing and it's
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: a privilege to be able to do. It is. But
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: it is a lot to put on someone who knows
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: nothing about any of this stuff.
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: And people like me, they would be like, yep, nope,
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: no too much.
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: Nope, too much. Well, I mean, you are making the
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: decision of what somebody else's life is going to be
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: like forever. Forever. And that's a lot. It is.
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's a heavy responsibility.
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: One that I do not envy at all. Or lawyers. Like,
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: I sit and watch these things all day, all the time.
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: And I'm just sitting comfortably in my living room. All right?
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: I would not want to be a juror. I would
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: not want to be a lawyer.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: You would be a good juror, though.
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: I would. I've heard that from lawyer friends. that I
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: would be a pretty fair juror. But still, I mean, that's,
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: I can't think of a high, the biggest higher thing
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: that's above that is raising a human being. The second
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: would be determining what the future of another human being is.
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: Like those are two very powerful situations. So, but anyway,
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: so In the end, Sarah Hartsfeld did not fall because
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: she made a sudden careless mistake. She fell because she
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: believed her own mythology, which is one of my favorite
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: poetic universe doings. For three decades across multiple states, five marriages,
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: fires that left family homes in ashes, a fiancé shot
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: dead on a living room floor, and a murder-for-hire plot,
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: that stretched across state lines, Sarah operated on a singular,
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: chilling premise that she was always the smartest person in
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: any room.
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: She believed that if she controlled the narrative, shed tears
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: on cue, and draped herself in excuses of medical trauma
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: and bad luck, the world would look away. And for
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: 30 years, the world did look away. Systems failed. Reports
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: were filed away under criminally negligent homicide. Prosecutors declined charges.
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: Investigators were quietly closed. She moved from one life to
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: the next, leaving a trail of shattered lives and unsolved questions,
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: believing she was untouchable. Until she met Joseph Hartsfield, a
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: quiet chemical plant worker who simply wanted out.
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: And what Sarah failed to calculate wasn't just the relentless
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: work of a rookie detective or the precision of digital
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: step counts and Apple legacy keys. She failed to realize
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: that the truth has a way of gathering mass. The
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: density of that mass is a lot. Yeah. That's so
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: much so that when 12 strangers sat in that Chambers
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: County jury room and looked at Joe's final hours, they
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: didn't just see the murder of one man. They saw
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: 30 years of unpunished arrogance finally catch up to its architect.
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: And today, Sarah Hartsville sits inside a Texas prison cell
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: serving a sentence that ensures she will likely never see
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: free air again. Meanwhile, in Minnesota, the file on David
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: Bragg's death remains open like a ghost that refuses to rest.
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: And in case y'all are wondering, guess what? There's no
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: statute of limitations on murder. So just keep that in mind.
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: Now the story of Sarah Hartsfeld isn't just a true
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: crime cautionary tale about a toxic marriage or a sociopathic mind.
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: It is a sobering reflection on human nature and delayed justice.
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: It forces us to ask some pretty uncomfortable questions. How
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: many people walk among us who have mastered the art
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: of slipping through the cracks? How easily do we accept
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: plausible lies because the reality of evil is too unsettling
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: to face?
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: Sarah thought she was a master strategist, weaving a web
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: so tight no one could unravel it. But as prosecutor
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: Mallory Vargas reminded the court on that final day, webs
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: don't just catch prey. Eventually, if left standing too long,
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: they trap the spider inside them.
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: That's right. And that brings us to the conclusions. Of
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: the Sarah Hartsfeld story. Now, I recommend to everybody who's
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: been following this, go back, listen to it as a whole. Yes.
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: Because you're going to see that we touched upon some
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: things earlier that now you know the whole story or
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: you're going to look at from a different view, if
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: you will. You know, we have the luxury that when
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: we write these things, we know the full story. And,
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: you know, we like to put little Easter eggs and
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: cliffhangers and whatnot foreshadowing. into the future there. So I
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: recommend to everyone, please go back, listen to all these episodes.
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: It's a whole share them with everyone, you know, on
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: social media. I, I had never heard of this case beforehand,
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: which is interesting that I never had considering how recent
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: it is.
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: I know. I remember when I brought it to you,
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: you're like, what? I've not heard of that. How have
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: I not heard about it? And I was like, I
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: am shocked. This is not out there nationally.
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. And also, it is not very often that you
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: see a woman like her in the true crime world. Right.
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: So many things that you just don't see very often.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: And she checked just about every bad box she could
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: in every avenue. And, you know, I think there's a
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: lot to learn here, a lot of frustration. Because when
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: we first started this series... we talked a lot about
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: how it was very similar to the story of Robert Hanson,
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: the butcher baker of Alaska and how, because the legal
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: system and just kept letting him go time and time again,
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: and how many lives could have been saved and pain
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: not endured. Had somebody just did the fucking job.
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: You're the good neighborhood baker. She looked respectable. She was
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: a woman, military person. She's a flop.
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's, you've got to peel behind the mask.
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: It's very similar stories in that aspect where they put
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: these people in boxes and say, oh, it can't be them.
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: But the truth is, and I've always, I've said this
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: on numerous episodes that we've done, you know, they, as
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: when we're children, they tell us about monsters, the monsters
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: under our bed, the monsters in the woods, the monsters everywhere.
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: The monsters look just like us. As a matter of fact,
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: they are us. They are us. And the more you
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: read about true crime stories, the more you realize that
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: you wouldn't be able to pick them out if they
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: walked right past you.
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: I know. And that's why the police need to look
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: because they have a lot more tools and resources. One time, okay. Second,
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, there was a pattern with her. And that's
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: what nobody caught on to.
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: Or they just chose not to look at it because
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: it didn't make sense to them.
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: You know, there's a lot of people involved in this
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: story that I am sure are thankful that they're still here.
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, definitely.
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: Because anyone that came into contact with her in the
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: last 30 years had no idea, I think, what she
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: was truly capable of.
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: She caused a lot of damage to a lot of people.
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: Just so much. I mean, do I think a life
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: in prison is enough for just... No, I don't. But
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: it's all we have. But it's all we have. And
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: I do hope that everyone from all of her ex-husbands
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: or ex-lovers, because she had like a bazillion, her children,
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: her family, because she fucked over her family too. I
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: hope that they all have some sort of support and
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: And I don't think anybody can necessarily have closure. Grief
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: is very different from a lot of people for different things.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: But I do hope that they do have some sense
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: of peace that she's not going to hurt somebody again.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: And I hope her children are living the absolute best
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: lives they can. And I hope her daughters know just
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: because they had a mother like that doesn't mean they
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: all showed what heroes they were. They don't need to
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: worry that they're going to be that kind of mother.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: No. No.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: That proved.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: The burden that she put on her own children over
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: and over and over again is disgusting.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: I could not imagine doing that to my children.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: As a mother, we try to protect our children. Or
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: that's what mothers are supposed to do.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: I've heard that they're all doing fairly well for themselves.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: I've heard that they're all doing well.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: And that brings me... A lot of happiness for them.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying it's easy.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: It's not easy. And it's not going to go away
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: just because of their mom being in jail. They still
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: have to live with this the rest.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: Of their lives. Yeah.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: We made it through.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: We did, everybody. Thank you so much for joining us
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: for this multi-episode series that we've done here the last
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: several weeks. Mary says she wasn't unattractive not gorgeous but
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: just the middle of the road unassuming kind of look
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: yes but it's that it's the charmingness that I think
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: got like she could make you she was very charming
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: and very manipulating you've been following how to win friends
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: and influence people Mary think of what you've learned so
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: far and mama learns about and how it applies here
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: but I mean that'll get you a long way That
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: would get you a very long way. I don't blame
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: anybody who ever got involved with her in any sort
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: of way.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: No.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: I don't think anybody thinks somebody's capable of doing all
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: these things. Nobody wants to believe that.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: Nobody would want to believe that.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: But it's real. It's real. And I never blame anyone
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: for being like, I just, I didn't see it. Even
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: if there were tons of red flags, I don't. Because
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: there have been many situations in my life where there's
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: been lots of red flags. And I've ignored them because
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: I've been like, there's no way. It happens to all.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: Every single one of us has done it. Don't act
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: like you haven't. So, you know, I don't blame any
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: of them. But it's just lucky. I mean, two people
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: still lost their lives, but it very well could have
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: been more if I think things had went according to
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: our plans. Absolutely.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 3: So.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. Absolutely.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: So next time on True Crime and Wine Time, you guys,
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: buckle up.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: And it will not be next week. We're going to
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: take a week off.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: Yes, because we are knee-deep in research right now.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: And then we will be back October 1st.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: We will be back with full force with our next
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: multi-part series. I can't even tell you how long it's
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: going to be. It's going to be a very long one.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: And it's a doozy as well. It is. It's wild. Uh,
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: it's worse than this one. I'll be honest.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: Sarah was a bad mom. Just wait.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: Llamas. Yeah. Just wait.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's, uh, the research has been pretty, um, intense
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: and awful. It's a very rough story, but anyway, uh,
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: our next case that we're going to tackle is that
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: of Colleen. Um, well, Colleen is the victim, but Krista Pike, um,
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: She is set to be executed next Wednesday morning at
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: 10 a.m. for the murder of Colleen. And we're going
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: to be covering that. Whether or not she is executed
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: or not is kind of irrelevant to our Colleen Slimmer. Sorry,
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: I knew it was that. But I was like, it's
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: not summer. But I apologize. It's been a very long day.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: So I mean, no disrespect. But the murder, horrific. The Childhoods, horrific.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: What Happens After Trial, horrific. Death Penalty, horrific. It's a lot.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: It's going to be a very long story, but it
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: is also one of those that each week you are
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: going to want to know more. You might be like, oh,
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: why do I know all this now? But it's going
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: to be a very interesting series as well. And again,
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, we thought Sarah Hartsfield was a shit mom.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: Wait till you meet Krista Pike's mom. All right. Speaking
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: of moms.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: Hello, Mama Llama.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: Speaking of moms. No, my mom is not like that.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: I should say, your mama is not like that.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: Oh, thank you, Mary. Mary says, this is a long haul, ladies.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: Props to you both for the time and effort and
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: presentation of this story. Thank you. You're welcome. Well, it's
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: important to us when we tell these stories that we
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: tell them in their entirety.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: Totally.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: You know, uh, sometimes you agree. Sometimes you don't. Sometimes
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: what we read about isn't, uh, it's not great to hear.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: It's devastating. It's awful. It's triggering, but this is real life.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: This happened to real people. And, you know, I don't
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: think we should ever shy away from the reality of
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: these horrible things, um, that happened to a very real people.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: So that's what we have coming up next. It's going
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: to be a very long series as well, but I think, um,
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: Whatever you think you know about this case, you may
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: not know as much as you think you do. Because
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: I sure as hell didn't until I started reading stuff.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: And I was like, oh my God, this is way
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: worse than I had initially thought. So speaking of, can
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: we have a costume party on the Discord? Maybe. Maybe. Maybe.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: Or maybe we'll jump on and do a live. We've
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: been known to shop in costumes before, but I will
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: not be showing up as Big Bird if we do
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: it again. Just for the record, not be back.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: Well, I really want to do, this is derailing from
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: our show here, but I really want to do another
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: murder mystery party. Yes. I need somebody who doesn't want
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: to participate as well as much to help me accomplish it.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: Cause I don't have as much time as I normally do. So,
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: but I really want to do one.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: Okay, we'll have to do it. Sorry, Mary Focus. Now,
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: before we go, if you like what you heard tonight,
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: be sure to follow us on all of our socials,
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: True Crime and Wine Times out there, Terry True Crime,
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: and subscribe to our YouTube channel because it's free. And
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: if you are listening over on the podcast apps, just remember, download,
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: leave us a rating. It helps us tremendously get these
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: stories out there.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: That's right. It does. Every little bit helps our small little,
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: little channel and all the places.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: It does. Well, as I always like to say, stay safe,
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: stay aware. You guys enjoy your wine time since I can't,
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: but most importantly, let's all remember to be kind because
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: we need more kindness in this world.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: That's right. And as I always say, friends go forth
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: and be amazing. All right.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: Bye, friends. We'll see you all soon. Bye, guys.