Latest / Why We Do What We Do / Teaching Literacy pt 2

Transcript

Teaching Literacy pt 2 · Why We Do What We Do

0:03
Speaker 1: You're listening to Why we do what we do. Welcome
0:16
Speaker 1: to Why We Do what we do. I am your
0:19
Speaker 1: textual host.
0:20
Speaker 2: Abraham, and I'm your bibliophilic host, Shane. Is that a word?
0:24
Speaker 1: But Phil, I mean I get how you're putting the
0:27
Speaker 1: words together, and that's what English is all about.
0:29
Speaker 2: That's really it is, just making it up as we go.
0:31
Speaker 1: I think it counts. Yeah, we are a psychology podcast. Surprisingly,
0:36
Speaker 1: we talked about all of the things that humans and
0:38
Speaker 1: non human animals do. And this is the second part
0:42
Speaker 1: in a two part series in which we are teaching
0:45
Speaker 1: y'all how to teach others how to read English specifically.
0:50
Speaker 2: Yes, we're gonna do a quick recap in just a
0:53
Speaker 2: minute so to catch you up on it if you
0:54
Speaker 2: haven't seen part one or listened to part one. But
0:57
Speaker 2: we recommend listening to part one because I think that
0:59
Speaker 2: there's a lot of really valuable discussion inside of it too.
1:01
Speaker 2: And yeah, and I learned a whole lot from it,
1:03
Speaker 2: so I think it's worth spending some time with.
1:05
Speaker 1: It does set a lot of the groundwork, and we
1:08
Speaker 1: will jump right into that. But I think in order
1:10
Speaker 1: to group the general ideas together of this discussion, and
1:14
Speaker 1: have them flow nicely. I'll actually start by saying, if
1:16
Speaker 1: you like here today and you would like to support us,
1:18
Speaker 1: one way you can do that is by joining us
1:20
Speaker 1: on Patreon, picking up some merch, leaving us a rating, interview, liking, subscribing,
1:24
Speaker 1: telling a friend, all those things. I'll talk about more
1:27
Speaker 1: at the end of this discussion. And I just went
1:28
Speaker 1: through a fast that we got through that part. We
1:30
Speaker 1: made it. Good job, we're on the other side. Look
1:32
Speaker 1: at us. The other thing, though, is I would like
1:34
Speaker 1: to say is if you are joining us for the
1:36
Speaker 1: first time, that we hope that you enjoy what you
1:37
Speaker 1: hear today and we'd love to hear from you your
1:39
Speaker 1: thoughts and feedback. And if you are returning, welcome back.
1:42
Speaker 1: We are glad to have you here. Yes, and having
1:45
Speaker 1: you here means that you have chosen to join us.
1:48
Speaker 1: And because we would like to recognize that gesture, I
1:51
Speaker 1: would like to offer a wishing of happy bugs bunny
1:54
Speaker 1: day to you.
1:55
Speaker 2: Oh man, what a great what a great day to celebrate.
1:58
Speaker 2: Today is also Day the.
2:00
Speaker 1: Child okay Mendalorian reference.
2:04
Speaker 2: Uh, I don't know, because the same it's also Dia
2:08
Speaker 2: delos ninos. Okay, So I think that there's maybe lots
2:12
Speaker 2: of that going.
2:13
Speaker 1: On, lots of child's okay. Also Dnim Day also called
2:18
Speaker 1: denhim Day.
2:19
Speaker 2: Hey, I have a question for you. Shoot, what were
2:22
Speaker 2: Super Mario's overalls made of denim? Denim? Denim? Denim? Nice?
2:29
Speaker 2: You're welcome, folks. This is edutainment, you know.
2:33
Speaker 1: Sure.
2:33
Speaker 2: It's also Hairstyle Appreciation Day.
2:36
Speaker 1: I like your here a oh I don't, but thank you.
2:38
Speaker 1: I like your hair.
2:39
Speaker 2: Oh. Thanks.
2:40
Speaker 1: I think it's lovely, it looks, it looks well brushed.
2:43
Speaker 2: It is.
2:45
Speaker 1: It is honesty day, and I was being honest, so
2:48
Speaker 1: I was keeping and keeping with the tradition.
2:51
Speaker 2: Look at us go. It is also International Guide Dog Day.
2:56
Speaker 1: Love that definitely. Yeah, those are fun. Actually a topic
2:59
Speaker 1: I've thought about talking about because it's an interesting industry,
3:03
Speaker 1: and I think you don't always think about how much
3:05
Speaker 1: it takes to get a dog to be a guide dog,
3:08
Speaker 1: and like how many of them are like starting that
3:11
Speaker 1: training and aren't able to complete it. That's already saying
3:13
Speaker 1: a lot more than just wishing everyone Happy International Guide
3:16
Speaker 1: Dog Day, Happy International Jazz Day.
3:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, so enjoy your day. In nonlinear time signatures, it's
3:23
Speaker 2: also National Adopted Shelter pet day.
3:26
Speaker 1: Love that similar to see a theme here. Yeah, and
3:29
Speaker 1: in keeping with that National Animal Advocacy Day, we love
3:32
Speaker 1: animals like that's just that's good. We feel good about that.
3:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, take care of them. It is National bubble tea Day.
3:38
Speaker 2: If you like that sort of thing.
3:40
Speaker 1: Yuh I love that?
3:41
Speaker 2: Do you not like that? Uh? I like the pearls
3:45
Speaker 2: that are full of juice. I don't like the tapioca
3:49
Speaker 2: jelly like pearls.
3:51
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm here for all of it, but I get
3:53
Speaker 1: that you like like the ones that pop. I like
3:55
Speaker 1: the ones like the juice.
3:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, the juice is.
3:59
Speaker 1: It's it's National Oatmeal Cookie Day, not to follow juicies.
4:05
Speaker 1: That's with that, But sorry for putting that image in
4:08
Speaker 1: your head.
4:08
Speaker 2: I saw somebody the other day that talked about how
4:11
Speaker 2: we should have less oatmeal cookies, and I was like,
4:12
Speaker 2: I feel like you're still taking joy from too many
4:14
Speaker 2: people because oatmeal cookies are not nearly as bad as
4:18
Speaker 2: they shouldn't be as maligned as they are.
4:20
Speaker 1: I agree, you have some really good oatmeal cookies, That's.
4:22
Speaker 2: What I'm saying. I had oatmeal cookie ice cream oatmeal
4:26
Speaker 2: raisin cookie ice cream not too long ago, and it.
4:27
Speaker 1: Was delicious, right, that sounds good.
4:30
Speaker 2: Yeah. It is National Mister Potato Head Day.
4:33
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it is. It is that, And keeping with
4:36
Speaker 1: the oatmeal thing, it's National Raisin Day.
4:38
Speaker 2: It is It's National Sarcoidosis Day.
4:40
Speaker 1: Okay, I don't know much about that. I mean neither
4:43
Speaker 1: National Therapy Animal Day. Yeah, lots of animal themed things
4:48
Speaker 1: going on here.
4:49
Speaker 2: Yes, unrelated to animals. It is spank Out Day.
4:52
Speaker 1: No followup questions, Nope, no notes, no follow up questions.
4:57
Speaker 1: It is Stop Food Waste Day. Big advocate for that.
5:01
Speaker 1: That seems like something we should actually maybe do and
5:04
Speaker 1: not just let's just think we should do. Let's just
5:07
Speaker 1: yeah at that, let's.
5:08
Speaker 2: Do it every day. It is Go Diaper Free Week.
5:11
Speaker 2: I'm gonna try that out.
5:18
Speaker 1: Before we hit record. This is not the first time
5:20
Speaker 1: Shane has really caught me off card and got me
5:23
Speaker 1: to laugh at belly laugh, Well done, well done. Is
5:32
Speaker 1: action is National Auctioneers Week.
5:37
Speaker 2: It is.
5:37
Speaker 1: It's also National Green Week to go with diaper free Week.
5:42
Speaker 1: It's National Scoop of the Poop Week, also to go
5:44
Speaker 1: with free week.
5:47
Speaker 2: And it is also National Youth Violence Prevention Week.
5:50
Speaker 1: Oh, very important.
5:51
Speaker 2: Again, one of those things we should do all the time.
5:53
Speaker 1: So yeah, it does not feel like that one's uh
5:58
Speaker 1: fits the sort of comp like medic elements of what
6:01
Speaker 1: we were embracing there. Whatever, we're here, we're in the
6:04
Speaker 1: middle of this. Now, we've gotten to the point now
6:07
Speaker 1: where we get to address the topic at hand. We
6:09
Speaker 1: spend in several minutes. We laughed, we cried, we had fun,
6:13
Speaker 1: and we talked about holidays. But the reason we're actually here,
6:16
Speaker 1: as I described, is that we are continuing this discussion
6:19
Speaker 1: that overviews. Basically, here's curriculum for how to teach this
6:23
Speaker 1: is the right way to do it. Everyone who hears
6:26
Speaker 1: that sentence is going to be up in arms and
6:27
Speaker 1: be like, ah, I do it the right way, and
6:29
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be like, sure, but this way works. So whatever,
6:32
Speaker 1: quick recap, And this, I actually think is one of
6:34
Speaker 1: the more poignant nuggets to keep in mind as we
6:38
Speaker 1: describe this. Whether or not you heard it last time,
6:40
Speaker 1: I think I want to reiterate this is that the
6:42
Speaker 1: whole point of reading is to take language, like the
6:47
Speaker 1: way that we communicate with one another, and to preserve
6:50
Speaker 1: it in a way that it can be brought back
6:53
Speaker 1: out to people later. Right, we're recorded on a piece
6:56
Speaker 1: of paper. We we do so symbolically someone else gets
6:59
Speaker 1: that piece of paper, they get to have our language
7:02
Speaker 1: brought to them via that piece of paper. So the
7:05
Speaker 1: point is, the reason I think this is so important
7:08
Speaker 1: is to understand that the system by which we've chosen
7:11
Speaker 1: to do that should as efficiently and effectively as possible
7:17
Speaker 1: accomplish the task of get language recorded and accessible to
7:22
Speaker 1: another person. Right and English has brought with it many
7:26
Speaker 1: traditions from many different languages in a very bizarre melting
7:30
Speaker 1: pot of rules and assembled those into text. And because
7:36
Speaker 1: there are so many rules, it's just hard. And I
7:40
Speaker 1: think it's arguably harder to read than it is to
7:42
Speaker 1: learn to speak, even though there's a lot of weird
7:44
Speaker 1: incongruities with like some of the rules around speaking it
7:47
Speaker 1: as well, the text part of it has a lot
7:50
Speaker 1: of rules that I think make it very difficult for readers.
7:53
Speaker 1: And therefore it is very important that unless we choose
7:56
Speaker 1: to change that system, and I would argue that we should,
7:59
Speaker 1: I think we are better served by understanding how to
8:02
Speaker 1: efficiently get that set of rules to the next generation
8:05
Speaker 1: of learners so that they can access all of the
8:08
Speaker 1: language that would then be available to them having done that, Like,
8:11
Speaker 1: does that feel like like that was I think one
8:13
Speaker 1: of my most central points in all of this.
8:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think that makes perfect sense. And
8:17
Speaker 2: I think I think another thing that we talked about
8:20
Speaker 2: to to kind of piggyback on that is, when you're
8:22
Speaker 2: teaching language, you're teaching simple sounds, like you're you start
8:25
Speaker 2: with the simplest sound possible or whatever sound that that
8:29
Speaker 2: letter makes most commonly as you're teaching, and then building
8:33
Speaker 2: from there.
8:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, start with like the most consistent rules that are
8:37
Speaker 1: the easiest, and stick with those for a while while
8:40
Speaker 1: you get up to the point of being able to
8:42
Speaker 1: actually read text. And so that is as we describe
8:46
Speaker 1: starting with short vowel words things like cat and sit
8:50
Speaker 1: and pet and those sorts of things. And you want
8:53
Speaker 1: to practice different modalities of this. You'd like them to
8:56
Speaker 1: be able to sound out the word. You want your
8:57
Speaker 1: reader to practice just saying the word without sounding out
9:00
Speaker 1: each individual phone name. You want to practice identifying the
9:03
Speaker 1: word once they hear it, maybe by selecting it from
9:06
Speaker 1: a list or even writing it down. And we also
9:09
Speaker 1: talked about like, not only do you want to practice
9:12
Speaker 1: this so that they can do it, but so that
9:14
Speaker 1: they can do it fluently, because they're gonna have to
9:16
Speaker 1: decode at a high enough rate that they can actually
9:19
Speaker 1: understand what they read, which is a huge part of reading.
9:21
Speaker 1: Is not just that you can make those sounds happen,
9:25
Speaker 1: but that you can then draw from that comprehension, you
9:27
Speaker 1: can comprehend the text that's in.
9:28
Speaker 2: Front of you right exactly.
9:30
Speaker 1: And then another piece, I think that useful to talk.
9:32
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's useful at point that I argued,
9:35
Speaker 1: probably much to the chagrin of many, And again I
9:38
Speaker 1: feel like all I'm doing is making enemies with people
9:41
Speaker 1: right now, is that I think letter names are utterly
9:44
Speaker 1: and completely unnecessary. The only function they serve is to
9:47
Speaker 1: help with spelling. It only because we have decided that
9:51
Speaker 1: letters should have names, because you could still spell things
9:55
Speaker 1: by just providing the sounds if we were to accept
9:58
Speaker 1: that as a form of spelling, which make perfect sense,
10:01
Speaker 1: because texts only reason to exist is to communicate language
10:05
Speaker 1: by preserving it in a symbolic way. So that's why
10:09
Speaker 1: I keep going back to that. Well, is I think
10:11
Speaker 1: to understand that like anyway, I think I made my
10:14
Speaker 1: point there without expanding, like repeating myself further, that's where
10:18
Speaker 1: I'm going with all that.
10:20
Speaker 2: Right without doing a part one part two, right, like
10:24
Speaker 2: without having you do like part one again.
10:26
Speaker 1: Yes, and so I think I'll just finish off by
10:28
Speaker 1: saying because almost forgot. Like what we were talking about
10:30
Speaker 1: is essentially the sequence with which to introduce these concepts,
10:34
Speaker 1: the primary one starting with, as I said, short vowel words,
10:38
Speaker 1: and then my argument would be then to move to
10:41
Speaker 1: words with consonant blends in them, where you hear all
10:43
Speaker 1: the sounds. So, for example, and the word stamp, you
10:47
Speaker 1: hear both this and those are two consonants right next
10:50
Speaker 1: to each other, but you hear both of their sounds.
10:52
Speaker 1: Really easy to apply if you've already learned letter sounds,
10:54
Speaker 1: because you could just look at those letters and then
10:57
Speaker 1: and there's no other rule needed, and then you have
10:59
Speaker 1: your short vowel. Although in this case, in English, particularly
11:02
Speaker 1: American English, there's a special rule where if you put
11:07
Speaker 1: an A next to an M rather than to say ah,
11:10
Speaker 1: it says ah. And if you it sounds horrible when
11:13
Speaker 1: you say it like that, but if you sound it out,
11:15
Speaker 1: you'll actually notice that is it is ah, that is
11:18
Speaker 1: it's stamp, and it sounds almost like I'm saying it
11:20
Speaker 1: with an accent, but like if that's just saying it's
11:22
Speaker 1: slow stamp, but if it goes am like that, then
11:26
Speaker 1: you hear it. And anyway, that is also I'm probably
11:29
Speaker 1: messing up sound for justin so bad right now. If
11:31
Speaker 1: I do, it's a microphone, I'm sorry, justin. Anyway, you
11:34
Speaker 1: can also hear in that consonant bleunt so long story short,
11:37
Speaker 1: too late. But what I was going with that is
11:40
Speaker 1: that's the sequence of which I recommend introducing those phonemes,
11:43
Speaker 1: because they follow exactly from just being able to do
11:45
Speaker 1: any letter sounds in isolation.
11:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was thinking about this, and I, you know,
11:49
Speaker 2: the A sound is so weird because like because I mean,
11:52
Speaker 2: you and I are musicians, so like playing in bands,
11:54
Speaker 2: and we talk about the word amp and I don't
11:56
Speaker 2: think I've ever thought of the word amp as being
11:58
Speaker 2: like the A is wrong. So is weird. But ads
12:01
Speaker 2: it works. It's pretty consistent. Those rules are consistent.
12:12
Speaker 1: So we spent all the way up until our first
12:14
Speaker 1: ad break talking about holidays, making jokes, making each other
12:18
Speaker 1: giggle a little, and recapping our last episode. So I
12:22
Speaker 1: think that means we have clearly signaled it is time
12:24
Speaker 1: for us to actually move on to new stuff, because
12:27
Speaker 1: that's probably why most of you are here, possibly for
12:30
Speaker 1: the holidays and then you like ducked out. But if
12:32
Speaker 1: you did, you didn't hear this part. So for those
12:33
Speaker 1: of you who remain, let's continue.
12:36
Speaker 2: Yeah. See, I thought it just meant that we were unprofessional,
12:38
Speaker 2: but I think we can. I think we get into it. Okay,
12:41
Speaker 2: So continue on a part two. We didn't mention this before,
12:44
Speaker 2: but when we're facilitating practice, a big part of learning
12:47
Speaker 2: acquisition and learning skills and picking up skills pretty quickly
12:50
Speaker 2: is making sure you have adequate practice and good practice.
12:53
Speaker 2: And so one way to do that is making several
12:55
Speaker 2: decoding worksheets with the letter names and the word examples
12:59
Speaker 2: so that you can go at a pace that is
13:00
Speaker 2: comfortable for them and have a lot of opportunities to practice.
13:03
Speaker 2: So again, the biggest thing is being able to practice
13:05
Speaker 2: opportunities for those consistent rules to get them kind of
13:09
Speaker 2: rolling with the reading process before we start kind of
13:11
Speaker 2: making it more complex.
13:13
Speaker 1: And the reason it's nice to have a lot of
13:15
Speaker 1: different practice worksheets is so that they're not just memorizing rows,
13:19
Speaker 1: but that they do have to like respond to the
13:22
Speaker 1: words as they're presented to them, or the letters whatever
13:25
Speaker 1: they are. However you're practicing it. So having a lot
13:27
Speaker 1: of different versions of the same sheet, just sort of
13:30
Speaker 1: randomized can really help give you an opportunity to see
13:33
Speaker 1: what performance looks like when it's I want to say novel,
13:38
Speaker 1: that's not exactly it's other performance. That's novel. It's just
13:40
Speaker 1: the presentation this novel. But I guess essentially when it
13:43
Speaker 1: gets given an opportunity to occur in sort of a
13:46
Speaker 1: fresh way, if you will, like it's kind of their
13:48
Speaker 1: first run in it, even though they've been practicing it,
13:50
Speaker 1: you should see an increase in the performance just by
13:54
Speaker 1: virtue of the fact that, like they're getting lots of
13:56
Speaker 1: really good practice, and if they're always practicing a new array,
14:00
Speaker 1: then that should generalize in the sense it's not strictly
14:02
Speaker 1: generalization in certain senses, but generalize in the sense that
14:06
Speaker 1: they can apply it no matter what the word array
14:09
Speaker 1: is in that sequence. Sure that makes sense now, because
14:13
Speaker 1: there are a lot of common words that you're likely
14:16
Speaker 1: to see because they're just really prolific throughout the or
14:19
Speaker 1: not prolific exactly, but they're really really commonly used. It's
14:23
Speaker 1: the word common twise, I was trying to avoid it,
14:25
Speaker 1: but I just I like leaned into it.
14:27
Speaker 2: It's okay.
14:27
Speaker 1: They're used a lot, and a lot of them are
14:29
Speaker 1: not easy to sound out. So it is useful to
14:33
Speaker 1: a point to introduce several of these sort of site
14:35
Speaker 1: words at this point in the curriculum where you've sort
14:38
Speaker 1: of you've gotten through a lot of letter sounds. Is
14:40
Speaker 1: to sort of say, here's a list of words that
14:44
Speaker 1: don't have easy rules that you can use, but you're
14:47
Speaker 1: going to see them so often that you've just got
14:49
Speaker 1: to just got to memorize them. What I don't love
14:51
Speaker 1: about this approach is that you basically teach one thing,
14:56
Speaker 1: you get one thing. When you teach the rules. You
14:58
Speaker 1: kind of get a lot of free words if you
15:00
Speaker 1: teach them the letters. This is the part I think
15:02
Speaker 1: I really did not emphasize at all, And the first
15:05
Speaker 1: part of this discussion that I think is really worth
15:07
Speaker 1: pointing out here is if you build that fluency and
15:10
Speaker 1: that practice and that habit with letter sounds, then you
15:14
Speaker 1: don't have to teach every word. You get a whole
15:17
Speaker 1: bunch of words for free because they can recombine those
15:21
Speaker 1: sounds to decode anything that follows that rule, and so
15:25
Speaker 1: you don't have to have a list of like four
15:27
Speaker 1: hundred words that they need to learn. All you need
15:29
Speaker 1: to do is practice that rule and then you can
15:31
Speaker 1: be testing that I'm a random array of rules. But
15:34
Speaker 1: there are these words, these site words that, as I said,
15:36
Speaker 1: they're not easy to decode, and you just have to
15:39
Speaker 1: recognize them because they're going to see them all the
15:41
Speaker 1: time in text and they need to not be completely
15:44
Speaker 1: befuddled once they run into those words. So this is
15:47
Speaker 1: like the site word list. And because site words do
15:50
Speaker 1: not lend themselves easily to sounding out, because they don't
15:53
Speaker 1: follow consistent rules, I would say if you are trying
15:55
Speaker 1: to do this, skip the sound out step. Don't include it.
15:58
Speaker 1: You're going to go just to reading them. You're just
16:00
Speaker 1: going to teach them each word and have them practice
16:02
Speaker 1: on worksheets again the way I described multiple versions shuffle
16:06
Speaker 1: to rays. I recommending introducing this in small groups. So
16:09
Speaker 1: you might just do like ten site words and then
16:12
Speaker 1: just shuffle them up and put them a whole bunch
16:13
Speaker 1: of times on that page in a super randomized shuffle.
16:16
Speaker 1: You can actually there's curriculum that already kind of exists
16:19
Speaker 1: to this point. You can look up fry words. They're
16:22
Speaker 1: called fry because it's the name of the guy who
16:23
Speaker 1: put them together this list, I think his name was
16:25
Speaker 1: Edward Frye. And that's just a list of like some
16:27
Speaker 1: of the most common it's like the thousand most common
16:30
Speaker 1: words in the English language or the one hundred, I
16:32
Speaker 1: don't know, something like that. It's just a list of
16:34
Speaker 1: those words you can start with, like the really short
16:36
Speaker 1: ones and just teach them and again that small group.
16:39
Speaker 1: And I also suggest he because he included just the
16:42
Speaker 1: most common words. You can I think omit any of
16:45
Speaker 1: those easily decodable words, so you don't necessarily need to
16:47
Speaker 1: worry about teaching those because you're already teaching them the
16:49
Speaker 1: rule they should be able to apply. So anyway, that's
16:52
Speaker 1: a ton of information. But I thought was a really
16:54
Speaker 1: important part is like there is a place for site
16:57
Speaker 1: words in literacy curriculum in English. But like I said,
17:01
Speaker 1: what I don't love about it is you just you
17:03
Speaker 1: teach one word, you get one word, So it's it's
17:05
Speaker 1: not like you get a whole lot of bonus growth
17:07
Speaker 1: from that, but like they just have to recognize them.
17:09
Speaker 1: Because they'll see them everywhere, right.
17:12
Speaker 2: And so when you kind of going back to what
17:14
Speaker 2: you're saying, when you're teaching like the specific rules for
17:16
Speaker 2: those words and like where they can combine those letters
17:19
Speaker 2: in words to make new words and learn how to
17:21
Speaker 2: read new words. There's a term for that, and I
17:23
Speaker 2: love this term. It's one of my favorite terms of
17:25
Speaker 2: behavior analysis. It's recombinitive generalization.
17:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I love that, the vocab term. Yeah, not
17:31
Speaker 1: exactly vocab because it's more jargon, but it's I think
17:35
Speaker 1: it's I love building in the jargon terms too.
17:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's one of my favorite. It's one of my
17:39
Speaker 2: favorite words. I remember. I remember sitting in a training
17:41
Speaker 2: for matrix training and being like, oh, that's a great word,
17:44
Speaker 2: and I know I understand what it means. Yeah, And
17:46
Speaker 2: it's the reason why a kid will learn something like
17:49
Speaker 2: buck and then all of a sudden start using profanity, right,
17:54
Speaker 2: because they'll go all that buck, duck, and then you
17:57
Speaker 2: know they end up with other words. Right. So at
18:00
Speaker 2: this point you can actually start introducing short passages that
18:02
Speaker 2: contain only words learned up until this point. And there's
18:05
Speaker 2: a concept called repeated reading, which is basically what it
18:08
Speaker 2: sounds like practice reading the same one page or less
18:11
Speaker 2: passage repeatedly until reading fluently, And just so everybody knows,
18:16
Speaker 2: we can read a lot faster than we can decode,
18:18
Speaker 2: but to begin with a similar fluency goal of one
18:21
Speaker 2: hundred to eighty words permitted, that's acceptable when we're starting
18:25
Speaker 2: to talk about this this level of reading.
18:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, like very early on, so as I said, like
18:30
Speaker 1: when you decode, like when you're reading a word in isolation,
18:34
Speaker 1: it's actually much more difficult to do that when you
18:37
Speaker 1: read it as part of like a cohesive text. It's
18:39
Speaker 1: a really interesting phenomenon. Like if I just gave you
18:43
Speaker 1: a list of words that were just random words and
18:46
Speaker 1: just had you read them, you would probably read them
18:49
Speaker 1: out loud at I would guess around one hundred to
18:52
Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty words per minuted. But if I
18:54
Speaker 1: were to give you a text that follows grammatical sentence structure,
18:58
Speaker 1: you'll actually read that close to two hundred and fifty
19:00
Speaker 1: to three hundred words per minute. So like double the
19:04
Speaker 1: speed that you'd be going reading words in isolation. You
19:07
Speaker 1: might be able to go faster than that reading those
19:09
Speaker 1: words in isolation, Like I can, like I know I've
19:12
Speaker 1: done it enough that like I know how to do that, sure,
19:14
Speaker 1: but for the most part, like you're kind of hampered
19:17
Speaker 1: by the fact that they don't flow together. And the
19:20
Speaker 1: flow of grammar that facilitates like language actually helps you
19:25
Speaker 1: go way way faster, which from an efficiency standpoint is great. Like,
19:28
Speaker 1: it's awesome that that we can do that, And of
19:31
Speaker 1: course that's reading out loud. If you were to read
19:33
Speaker 1: in your head, you can go even faster than that
19:36
Speaker 1: because you are no longer constrained by the the flexing
19:39
Speaker 1: and wiggling of the tongue. Right, the brain can shoot
19:43
Speaker 1: as fast as the brain can shoot as reading. And
19:45
Speaker 1: we did an episode on speed reading. You can go
19:48
Speaker 1: check that out. But spoiler alert, it mostly is nonsense. Yes,
19:52
Speaker 1: absolutely all right, So, once you've gotten through those short vowels,
19:55
Speaker 1: which just as a quick recap, just means that the
19:57
Speaker 1: vowel says its standard sound. So for A it's A,
20:00
Speaker 1: for E it's F, or I it's if, or oh
20:02
Speaker 1: it's awe, and for you it's and you can put
20:04
Speaker 1: the B or the T, B and T and around
20:06
Speaker 1: those to help remember what sounds that they make. But anyway,
20:09
Speaker 1: those are the short vowels, so there's vowel and consonant
20:11
Speaker 1: combinations in it. If on those sorts of things, I
20:15
Speaker 1: realized I did a whole bunch of eye words in
20:17
Speaker 1: a row. There's consonant vowel, consonant combinations, cat, pin, sit, let, hop,
20:23
Speaker 1: all those, and then there are those consonant blends that
20:26
Speaker 1: I talk about. So once you've gotten through those that
20:28
Speaker 1: sequence there, you can now start introducing what we would
20:31
Speaker 1: call conditional discriminations, another kind of jargon y term, but
20:35
Speaker 1: essentially it means a rule that changes per certain conditions,
20:39
Speaker 1: right right, And there's a lot of them in English.
20:42
Speaker 1: There's there's a lot more conditional discriminations in English, right,
20:46
Speaker 1: So let's start with one, and the one that I
20:49
Speaker 1: would advocate starting with is consonant combinations that make a
20:53
Speaker 1: new sound is like exceptions to the consonant combination rule.
20:57
Speaker 1: And these are called digraphs. These are ones that I
21:00
Speaker 1: mentioned before. So it's ch that says thhs, sh says
21:04
Speaker 1: there's lots of them. There's phs and then cs and
21:08
Speaker 1: kN and WR just says er like there's a lot,
21:12
Speaker 1: but they show up a lot in reading. And so
21:15
Speaker 1: because there is a I mean, I did just say
21:18
Speaker 1: that there's a lot of them, and there are, but
21:20
Speaker 1: like it's a more constrained set than a lot of
21:23
Speaker 1: other ways that letters could show up. And technically, with
21:26
Speaker 1: like the consonant blends that I mentioned, you can actually
21:29
Speaker 1: have a lot of consonants in a row in a word,
21:32
Speaker 1: and so that can actually become a little bit of
21:34
Speaker 1: a mouthful to do with these diagraphs. There's actually sort
21:38
Speaker 1: of like a constrained set, if you will. But nice
21:41
Speaker 1: thing about them, once you teach them, they always apply.
21:43
Speaker 1: So once a kid can recognize cch as, that's not
21:48
Speaker 1: a great example because there's so many times where it.
21:49
Speaker 2: Says but.
21:51
Speaker 1: I just realized, like, well, I mess that one up.
21:54
Speaker 1: Once you introduced that wh always says what for example,
21:58
Speaker 1: or if you're on family Guy, you can say hua.
22:00
Speaker 1: Then that sound gets to stay consistent as you apply
22:03
Speaker 1: it to new words. So you get to see why
22:05
Speaker 1: I just almost did it?
22:08
Speaker 2: What?
22:08
Speaker 1: When? Where? Why? You get the wh questions all of
22:11
Speaker 1: those and any other word of course that starts with
22:14
Speaker 1: the WH. So then that vastly expands, like their access
22:19
Speaker 1: to the number of things that they can read.
22:21
Speaker 2: So it's funny in these blends, you've got a double
22:24
Speaker 2: l as an example, and that is one that I
22:26
Speaker 2: think is really important. And so I spent a lot
22:28
Speaker 2: of year studying Spanish, and one of the things that
22:31
Speaker 2: they'll like in Spanish language. And this is why, like
22:34
Speaker 2: right now we kind of keep referencing English language because
22:37
Speaker 2: we're talking about that. Because Spanish language, the double L
22:40
Speaker 2: sound will change depending on regional dialects. So in some
22:45
Speaker 2: in like in Puerto Rican Spanish, it'll be more like
22:47
Speaker 2: a y sound like the like like if I say cabayo,
22:52
Speaker 2: whereas like in other types of Spanish, I can't remember
22:54
Speaker 2: exactly where the dialects are, but it'll sound like a
22:56
Speaker 2: z H sound the ja sound so like it'll be cabajo.
23:01
Speaker 2: So like there's that. Something to note too, is like
23:04
Speaker 2: sometimes dialects will also influence the way that you are teaching.
23:09
Speaker 2: I mean, English is not really like that, but like
23:12
Speaker 2: other languages might not have they might have different rules
23:16
Speaker 2: depending on their dialects.
23:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, and another English dialect, or at least American one,
23:21
Speaker 1: is ad oh oh no, all right, we're back. We've
23:32
Speaker 1: been talking about as you introduce these different phonemes and stuff,
23:36
Speaker 1: you can start to introduce what are called consonant digraphs,
23:39
Speaker 1: and there's more. There's more to unpack, so let's get
23:42
Speaker 1: into it.
23:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, there is. So I think when we talk about
23:45
Speaker 2: conditional discriminations, there really is no easy rule here. Sometimes
23:48
Speaker 2: the learner just has to memorize the groups and practice them.
23:51
Speaker 2: But what's important about sounding these out is that they
23:54
Speaker 2: do not try to separate the two letters, making sure
23:57
Speaker 2: that's what a blend is right, that they are things
24:01
Speaker 2: diagraphs specifically, you're right, yeah, so you we don't want
24:03
Speaker 2: them to separate them out because that kind of undermines
24:07
Speaker 2: r or negates the rule. So that's kind of one
24:10
Speaker 2: of the things that we want to pay attention to.
24:11
Speaker 2: So we don't want them to read k n O
24:14
Speaker 2: c K knock because that is not how they don't
24:17
Speaker 2: want to We don't want them to uck because that's
24:21
Speaker 2: not how that word reads, right, It's not what it
24:23
Speaker 2: sounds like. When we separate kN and h as single units,
24:26
Speaker 2: those letters are what they sound like, but when we
24:28
Speaker 2: put them together, it does change the sound. And so
24:32
Speaker 2: like that's just one of those conditional discriminations that we
24:34
Speaker 2: have to teach to make sure that and they have
24:36
Speaker 2: to memorize and practice and there's lots of examples to
24:39
Speaker 2: practice those.
24:40
Speaker 1: Yeah. So then then the K N and the C
24:42
Speaker 1: K become a single unit you have and that's it, like,
24:47
Speaker 1: that's how they sound it out, so that the sound
24:48
Speaker 1: out would sound like ah, just like the others. And
24:52
Speaker 1: then as we described at that point, you practice with
24:55
Speaker 1: the sounding out and practice reading and do those with
24:58
Speaker 1: a goal of re fluency, right, a fluent performance and
25:02
Speaker 1: again shooting for like when you're sounding out you're around
25:05
Speaker 1: one hundred maybe one hundred and twenty sounds per minute.
25:07
Speaker 1: When you're reading them, you're around eighty to like one
25:10
Speaker 1: hundred words permitted or so.
25:11
Speaker 2: Right.
25:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just important because a lot of kids without
25:14
Speaker 1: that specific instruction, they'll see the kN and they'll try
25:18
Speaker 1: and sound.
25:19
Speaker 2: Like that.
25:20
Speaker 1: And obviously when you reading the word knock, you make
25:23
Speaker 1: the K sound so okay, there's more just conditional discriminations.
25:27
Speaker 1: The next one I recommend, this is my opinion, is
25:30
Speaker 1: called this is a vowel pair, and it's what it
25:33
Speaker 1: sounds like. You put two vowels together. You start by
25:35
Speaker 1: isolating vowels. I would recommend starting by isolating the vowel
25:39
Speaker 1: pairs that together, say the name of the first letter
25:43
Speaker 1: in that vowel pair. Okay, so I'm gonna say that again.
25:47
Speaker 1: You start with the groups of vowel pairs where when
25:51
Speaker 1: you put those two vowels together, the sound that they
25:53
Speaker 1: make is the name of the first letter and the
25:56
Speaker 1: vowel pair. So for in the for instance, in the
25:58
Speaker 1: word at tail T A I L, you have the
26:02
Speaker 1: A and the I right next to each other. Mercifully again,
26:06
Speaker 1: with this particular combination, they simply say a right in
26:10
Speaker 1: the word tail. You hear all. There are a lot
26:14
Speaker 1: of pairs like this that you can grip up. There's
26:17
Speaker 1: ee will say e E, A will also say E not.
26:22
Speaker 1: It's a little confusing, but like at least they're consistent.
26:25
Speaker 1: There is I E says I. There's not very many
26:28
Speaker 1: examples of that one, but it is one that exists.
26:30
Speaker 1: Oe says, Oh, Like those are the examples of this
26:33
Speaker 1: that I'm talking about, And there's there's a few. There's like,
26:35
Speaker 1: I don't know, eight or something. You can also expand
26:38
Speaker 1: that group by including pairs where this is where Y
26:41
Speaker 1: acts as a vowel. One of the cases and so
26:44
Speaker 1: like A why says A like in the word play
26:47
Speaker 1: and O W says Oh so in the case the
26:50
Speaker 1: W acts like a vowel, but like adding that to
26:52
Speaker 1: the mix gives you another thing to include, which just
26:56
Speaker 1: again can expand the overall repertoire of reading to it
27:00
Speaker 1: words that would have that letter grouping, right, So.
27:03
Speaker 2: Like pay, rain, boat, toe, tie, team, teen, glue, like
27:08
Speaker 2: those are examples of where those those valel pairs were occurring. Yes,
27:11
Speaker 2: this made me think, as we're talking about it, the
27:13
Speaker 2: word tail right, because English of course has multiple tales ms,
27:19
Speaker 2: and so here we are talking about these valel pairs, Like,
27:22
Speaker 2: this is not teaching the rule that E following a
27:28
Speaker 2: consonant and then there's a valel likes a l E
27:31
Speaker 2: would make the al the a sound the same way
27:35
Speaker 2: that AI does, right, Like, we're not doing that, We're
27:38
Speaker 2: only doing the vowel pairs together.
27:40
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that would be my recommendation. Some people do
27:44
Speaker 1: introduce that rule before this, and we'll get to that
27:47
Speaker 1: one pretty soon here. Yeah, but my recommendation is to
27:50
Speaker 1: teach it this way because the conditional discrimination of identifying
27:54
Speaker 1: the letter name right next to the other vowel is
27:58
Speaker 1: fairly straightforward. It's like it's a little weird, but like
28:02
Speaker 1: it's fairly straightforward. Most kids in my experience pick this
28:05
Speaker 1: up right away. They like you teach it to them.
28:07
Speaker 1: They practice, You get fluency very quickly, and you do
28:10
Speaker 1: not need to spend much time on it.
28:12
Speaker 2: Okay, beautiful, all right. So similar to the diagraphs, they
28:15
Speaker 2: need to practice the valel pair as a unit, like
28:17
Speaker 2: sounded out as the as a singular unit. So as
28:20
Speaker 2: an example, in the word keene, they would say e,
28:25
Speaker 2: not eh.
28:27
Speaker 1: Or even e or and yeah exactly yeah.
28:31
Speaker 2: And so they're going to practice sounding out and reading
28:32
Speaker 2: the fluency and continue to do that until they get
28:34
Speaker 2: that valve pair fluid.
28:36
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, so I'll try and pick up the pace
28:39
Speaker 1: a little bit because we still have more to get through.
28:41
Speaker 1: If you're introducing these new concepts, you can be adjusting
28:44
Speaker 1: the complexity of the reading passage that you've been As
28:47
Speaker 1: we mentioned this, presumably you're also have as part of
28:50
Speaker 1: your curriculum opportunities to do reading passages, and again those
28:54
Speaker 1: should be calibrated to the phonetic concepts that are being
28:56
Speaker 1: covered so that they're going to be applying it because
28:59
Speaker 1: it's a really great way to to put reading into practice,
29:01
Speaker 1: to work on one of the critical parts, as I said,
29:03
Speaker 1: which is comprehension anyway, point B, you can be tit
29:06
Speaker 1: trading the complexity those passages to match these new phonetic
29:09
Speaker 1: concepts as you introduce them. And actually, as a quick recommendation,
29:13
Speaker 1: I have no ownership of this. I don't even know
29:15
Speaker 1: who does. I don't know what company makes them. But
29:17
Speaker 1: there is a series of books called Horizons. Maybe there's multiple,
29:21
Speaker 1: but these ones are by I think it's sra Is
29:25
Speaker 1: maybe the publisher, or they should have sra in the
29:27
Speaker 1: title somewhere, and I forget what this stands for, but anyway,
29:30
Speaker 1: they do a really good job of introducing the passages
29:34
Speaker 1: with specific phoneme types built in in a pretty linear,
29:38
Speaker 1: cohesive sequence, and like it's really kind of clever how
29:41
Speaker 1: they set it up, because each passage in the book
29:43
Speaker 1: is only about a page long, and they just gradually,
29:46
Speaker 1: very slowly increase in like the rules and complexity of
29:50
Speaker 1: the passages, so you can stay on one passage for
29:52
Speaker 1: a little while, usually pretty easy to get some fluency
29:54
Speaker 1: and then move on without spending very much time on it.
29:57
Speaker 1: And those are really like I really like those books
30:00
Speaker 1: for practicing funny make awareness curriculum for those people who
30:04
Speaker 1: are interested in that beautiful thank you for that resource,
30:07
Speaker 1: very welcome. All right.
30:08
Speaker 2: So finally, after they've done all this, they are ready
30:11
Speaker 2: for those long vowels. And so a lot of people
30:14
Speaker 2: take umbrage with introducing this concept this late, and especially
30:17
Speaker 2: in the sequence, because the expectation in schools that this
30:19
Speaker 2: is taught pretty early on. But it's confusing and trips
30:22
Speaker 2: up a lot of kids for a long time. So
30:24
Speaker 2: Abraham likes to save this for the later but do
30:26
Speaker 2: whatever you want to guess. But this is just a
30:28
Speaker 2: general recommendation, right, Yeah, So this is adding that magic
30:31
Speaker 2: e at the end of the words in this for
30:33
Speaker 2: most words, change the vowel to saying its name instead
30:37
Speaker 2: of its sounds, and the e is silent, it's not
30:40
Speaker 2: read at all. So we're talking words like take lime, pete,
30:44
Speaker 2: cute bone. Those are examples of what that might look like.
30:47
Speaker 2: And so basically a lot of this is just going
30:49
Speaker 2: to require again practice those words with just a magic
30:53
Speaker 2: e and then combined with other words with that consonant
30:56
Speaker 2: vowel consonant type of organization.
30:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, the ones you were mentioning, that's the conditional discrimination
31:02
Speaker 1: called also a long vowel. Word long, just as referring
31:06
Speaker 1: to the fact that the vowel says its name instead
31:08
Speaker 1: of its sound in these particular words. There are words
31:11
Speaker 1: that break this rule that are very common. I don't
31:14
Speaker 1: remember if I was going to talk about this earlier,
31:15
Speaker 1: but the word give ruins this, yeah, or maybe I
31:18
Speaker 1: talked about it last time and live yeah and live
31:21
Speaker 1: like so there are multiple examples in which the rule breaks,
31:23
Speaker 1: but it does hold most of the time. That's why
31:26
Speaker 1: we teach it, like it's a rule that they can
31:28
Speaker 1: apply that most of the time will be right. And
31:30
Speaker 1: that's like the best we can do with English, most
31:33
Speaker 1: of them for like a lot of these rules.
31:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, because that type of rule, like for those exceptions,
31:38
Speaker 2: Like the reason that there's an exception is because there's
31:40
Speaker 2: additional there's an additional conditional discrimination that requires like a
31:44
Speaker 2: level of reading, comprehension, influency that's different, right, Like it
31:47
Speaker 2: requires context clues that to make that discrimination. So it
31:51
Speaker 2: does take a little bit of time to get there,
31:52
Speaker 2: and it does take fluency across those other words to
31:57
Speaker 2: get there.
31:57
Speaker 1: I would imagine yes important theme. The AD's a return
32:00
Speaker 1: to yes. Now, some people may have asked or wondered
32:03
Speaker 1: or thought to themselves or encountered or didn't care at
32:06
Speaker 1: all that I'm going to be talking about this. But
32:08
Speaker 1: it's worth noting that a lot of kids do struggle
32:10
Speaker 1: with stem letter discriminations, and that's just they have trouble
32:13
Speaker 1: telling apart b's and d's, and sometimes they also have
32:17
Speaker 1: trouble telling apart p's and q's. Sometimes a G is
32:20
Speaker 1: in there also sometimes a J, and then there's like
32:22
Speaker 1: some others here and there. I had one kid who
32:24
Speaker 1: struggled with rs and ah's actually, and those like are
32:28
Speaker 1: I can see where it is, but it is just
32:29
Speaker 1: not as common. Bs and d's show up a lot. Unfortunately,
32:32
Speaker 1: there are not a lot of easy answers for solving this.
32:36
Speaker 1: I would suggest multi modal presentations and lots of practice.
32:40
Speaker 1: Try having them match the letters and say the sounds.
32:43
Speaker 1: You could potentially, if you're using letter names, be including that.
32:47
Speaker 1: They could be saying the name and the sound, or
32:49
Speaker 1: identifying it from the name or identifying it from the sound.
32:51
Speaker 1: You can use flash cards. You can practice having them
32:54
Speaker 1: writing it and saying it as they write. Could be
32:57
Speaker 1: saying it and sounding it out as they write. I've
32:59
Speaker 1: seen the these strategies work to varying degrees of success
33:03
Speaker 1: with students who struggle with those letter discriminations. By the way,
33:07
Speaker 1: if you struggle with this, that does not mean automatically
33:10
Speaker 1: that you have dyslexia or that your student has dyslexia.
33:13
Speaker 1: Sure you can get them screened, and we did an
33:15
Speaker 1: episode on dyslexia as well, but just making that discrimination
33:19
Speaker 1: error does not mean inherently that you suffer from dyslexia
33:23
Speaker 1: or that your student does. It is a very very
33:25
Speaker 1: common thing. Eventually people pick it up and the thing
33:28
Speaker 1: is like they look very very similar, like right, really
33:31
Speaker 1: do That's why they get mixed up. Anyway, those are
33:34
Speaker 1: some strategies you can attempt if you have a student
33:37
Speaker 1: who's struggling with that. Is that multimodal presentations, various responding
33:43
Speaker 1: to and reading and sounding out and writing, and just
33:45
Speaker 1: like get a lot of practice with those specific letters.
33:49
Speaker 2: Yeah. I struggled with those words a little bit when
33:52
Speaker 2: I was younger, as far as I remember, but I
33:54
Speaker 2: grew out of it really really quickly. So yeah, anyway,
33:57
Speaker 2: here's some abs.
34:06
Speaker 1: Okay, we're back moving on to more phonetic rules. Hopefully
34:09
Speaker 1: we're like in sort of the home stretch here, I
34:11
Speaker 1: think we are. I think we're getting there. Yeah, the
34:13
Speaker 1: next rule I would I recommend here. Again, these are
34:16
Speaker 1: just my recommendations. You don't have to listen to me.
34:19
Speaker 1: I think the sequence makes a lot of sense. And
34:21
Speaker 1: there are a lot of sequences that follow these steps
34:23
Speaker 1: pretty much exactly as I've laid them out, or pretty
34:26
Speaker 1: similarly to that. But anyway, my recommendation next is what
34:29
Speaker 1: are called are controlled vowels. It's actually a relatively simple rule.
34:34
Speaker 1: It's the spelling that is brutal with this rule. Yes,
34:38
Speaker 1: so aggressively inconsistent. Now that being said, there are some
34:42
Speaker 1: rules you can apply to the spelling here. I'm actually
34:44
Speaker 1: not going to talk through them because you don't want
34:47
Speaker 1: to hear that, And also I haven't even nailed done
34:50
Speaker 1: what they all are. I know a lot of them are,
34:51
Speaker 1: but there I think there are some that i've Anyway,
34:53
Speaker 1: let's just move on. So our control vowels are a
34:56
Speaker 1: vowel right next to an R, and that changes the
34:58
Speaker 1: sound that that phoney. Okay, right, So A R E R,
35:02
Speaker 1: I R O R. You are just all five vowels
35:04
Speaker 1: right next to an R. Three of those say er
35:07
Speaker 1: I R E R, and you are say er sometimes
35:11
Speaker 1: o R says er, Yeah is a very popular sound
35:14
Speaker 1: in this language. Yeah, and so words like this include herd, bird, turn,
35:20
Speaker 1: And then you have our other vowels. Most of the
35:21
Speaker 1: time ar is gonna say r. So for example, kart,
35:25
Speaker 1: I know other people were thinking of other things, and
35:26
Speaker 1: then or for example, the word fork. Those combinations work
35:31
Speaker 1: super well. Again, like everything else I've said, there are
35:34
Speaker 1: a myriad of exceptions to that rule that you will find,
35:37
Speaker 1: but this one is pretty consistent. Like you'll get a
35:39
Speaker 1: lot of mileage out of teaching the vowel plus the
35:42
Speaker 1: our controlled vowel rule here and getting those sounds down,
35:46
Speaker 1: like like I said, three of them say er, So
35:48
Speaker 1: that's really straightforward. And then you have r and or right.
35:51
Speaker 1: It's just the spelling that.
35:52
Speaker 2: Is so tough, right, Yeah, it throws it off. Yeah.
35:56
Speaker 2: Next is the is vale players that make new sounds
35:58
Speaker 2: like oh oo or e a making the sound like
36:03
Speaker 2: lead or you know you've got something like oh I
36:06
Speaker 2: O y e W or o U and like diagraphs,
36:10
Speaker 2: these just have to be memorized. It just takes practice
36:12
Speaker 2: more than anything, because the rules can be pretty inconsistent
36:16
Speaker 2: in a lot of different spaces. So just making sure
36:18
Speaker 2: that you're practicing enough words and enough examples to kind
36:21
Speaker 2: of really highlight that.
36:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, O O can say ooh or uh, such as
36:26
Speaker 1: an book or that cook oh I usually says oi,
36:31
Speaker 1: boil oh y also says oi. For example, in toy
36:35
Speaker 1: eu says u and ou says al oo oh and ah,
36:42
Speaker 1: depending on where else comes after it. Usually at this
36:45
Speaker 1: point I find it useful to just teach that it
36:47
Speaker 1: says al, and then you can introduce the other rules later,
36:50
Speaker 1: partially because some of them are really predictable, like O, U,
36:54
Speaker 1: g H T almost always says at. So that's anyway,
36:57
Speaker 1: that's the one that you can also do. So that's
37:00
Speaker 1: those fowel pairs that make new sounds. That's sort of
37:02
Speaker 1: their own little group that you can include, and again
37:04
Speaker 1: there's a handful of those. Next is teaching the conditions
37:08
Speaker 1: under which G and C make their soft sound, which
37:12
Speaker 1: if you didn't know, was and that's what's considered their
37:15
Speaker 1: soft sounds, right, And the rule here is actually it's
37:18
Speaker 1: fairly straightforward. It is still a thing that can be
37:22
Speaker 1: really tricky for several learners, but it's whenever a G
37:25
Speaker 1: and there's one those where you're gonna hear it and
37:27
Speaker 1: you're gonna be like, oh yeah, it's when a G
37:29
Speaker 1: or a C is immediately followed by an I, E
37:32
Speaker 1: or Y under those conditions, they make that soft sound
37:35
Speaker 1: legit and this respectively. And yes, there are of course exceptions.
37:40
Speaker 1: There are exceptions to almost everything I've said, like in
37:43
Speaker 1: the word give and girl that that breaks out rule immediately,
37:46
Speaker 1: but words like this could include gem G followed by
37:49
Speaker 1: an E ice rage scent. There's lots of them, right.
37:53
Speaker 1: Cycle crystal actually is one where you are cycles are
37:57
Speaker 1: really good on because you have both. You have the
37:58
Speaker 1: C followed by why as it says it's sound, and
38:01
Speaker 1: then you get the C flawed by an L. It
38:03
Speaker 1: makes it hard sound. Right. Teaching this is super frustrating
38:06
Speaker 1: because kids at this point have learned that like s
38:08
Speaker 1: makes us sound, and all of a sudden see also
38:11
Speaker 1: sometimes makes us sound, and like they have to figure
38:14
Speaker 1: out like when is it one and not the other,
38:16
Speaker 1: particularly because like there's three ways to spell scent. You
38:19
Speaker 1: have S e n T, C e n T and
38:21
Speaker 1: s c n T. Right, Like frustrating, have fun with that. Yeah, anyway,
38:27
Speaker 1: that's that's one that it can get a little bit tricky,
38:30
Speaker 1: and a lot of people they'll try it, they'll want
38:31
Speaker 1: to try to introduce these exceptions early on. I mean,
38:34
Speaker 1: you can try it, but like I said, it's a
38:36
Speaker 1: lot easier to teach a rule and then teach the
38:38
Speaker 1: exception than to try and blend them all together at once. Right,
38:41
Speaker 1: That's just it's so much content And like people who
38:45
Speaker 1: have been listening to this, no, I'm a huge board
38:47
Speaker 1: game enthusiast. I love them, and I love playing them,
38:49
Speaker 1: and I love teaching people how to play board games.
38:52
Speaker 1: And we're talking like the more complicated board games that
38:54
Speaker 1: most people have never heard of, Endless Winter, Terraforming, Mars Wingspan,
39:00
Speaker 1: Arborea Terminus. Maybe they're like there's so many games, like
39:03
Speaker 1: most people heard that. They're like are those words right?
39:07
Speaker 1: And where I'm going with this is like when you're
39:09
Speaker 1: sitting there learning a new board game, particularly when you're
39:11
Speaker 1: someone who like doesn't play them, is like a hobby,
39:13
Speaker 1: like I do, someone explaining the rules to your eyes
39:16
Speaker 1: are just glazing over, right, And I've had people like
39:18
Speaker 1: by the time I get to rule too, they're like,
39:21
Speaker 1: whoa hold on? Slow down? Like that is too much
39:25
Speaker 1: and like that's significantly less than what we expect of
39:29
Speaker 1: kids learning to read for the first time. So my
39:32
Speaker 1: recommendation is don't throw them all in the same time
39:35
Speaker 1: as I've said.
39:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's reasonable and it's fair, all right. So
39:38
Speaker 2: at this point in time, you can start introducing the
39:41
Speaker 2: concept of homophones, which you know is I think a
39:45
Speaker 2: lot of fun.
39:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, and those things we give the example of words
39:48
Speaker 1: that sound the same but are spelled differently and they
39:50
Speaker 1: have different.
39:50
Speaker 2: Meanings tailtale, fail, flail no or not. But tail and
39:56
Speaker 2: tail are.
39:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, tail and tail are there there, and they're with
40:00
Speaker 1: which yeah, which which There's there's quite a few. There
40:03
Speaker 1: are some that are spelled the same but pronounced differently.
40:06
Speaker 1: I think those are called homographs. Give and give, live
40:08
Speaker 1: and live, Yes, exactly right, live.
40:10
Speaker 2: In live, Sorry, not give and give, because give and
40:12
Speaker 2: give is that's the same word, the same word good lord.
40:18
Speaker 1: And then there are some that are like, they sound
40:20
Speaker 1: the same, but they mean different things in different context.
40:23
Speaker 1: And the three of them are the homonyms, homophones and homographs.
40:25
Speaker 1: I forget which is which, but like homophones are those
40:27
Speaker 1: ones where they, if I remember correctly, I feel like
40:29
Speaker 1: I'm saying I feel like I'm saying this correctly, I
40:31
Speaker 1: should double check. But the ones where they sound the
40:34
Speaker 1: same but are spelled differently, which means that they have
40:35
Speaker 1: different meanings to right, you can start to introduce those concepts.
40:38
Speaker 1: It does help with the fact that like they're gonna
40:41
Speaker 1: see them anyway, and so helping with comprehension. It's a
40:44
Speaker 1: little bit of vocab building. But you can just start
40:46
Speaker 1: introducing that I started talking about this. You'll eventually need
40:49
Speaker 1: to introduce the g H words where the gh is
40:51
Speaker 1: silent or makes a sound, and these can affect the
40:55
Speaker 1: vowel sounds. As I sort of mentioned with the oh,
40:57
Speaker 1: you you have the word though, ta h o U
41:00
Speaker 1: g H. Why why is this spelled like that? Why anyway?
41:06
Speaker 1: Tot t A U g H t so In those words,
41:10
Speaker 1: the G and the H, they're they're silent, like you
41:12
Speaker 1: don't actually hear those contributing to the sound, but they
41:14
Speaker 1: do affect the vowels. But then when you see g
41:17
Speaker 1: H and so and though you have o U g
41:19
Speaker 1: H and then you have o U g H in
41:21
Speaker 1: the word that starts with a C, and you get cough.
41:23
Speaker 1: So now it not only says oh, it says off.
41:26
Speaker 1: With that part of the word or instead of o
41:29
Speaker 1: U g h and you start with a T and
41:31
Speaker 1: now it says uf, so you get out of o
41:34
Speaker 1: U g h an o h ou off F. At
41:39
Speaker 1: the very least, like that's a lot of combinations. So
41:43
Speaker 1: one of those, as I said, that's really consistent is
41:45
Speaker 1: o U g H T will almost always say ought.
41:48
Speaker 1: So there's at least there's at least that. Yeah, But
41:53
Speaker 1: introducing the silent gh words that are in there, and
41:56
Speaker 1: like going over what those sounds are, the different sounds
41:59
Speaker 1: that they make, conditions under which they make those sounds,
42:02
Speaker 1: will be necessary some at some point once you've gone
42:05
Speaker 1: through like all the other rules.
42:07
Speaker 2: Right exactly now, at this point in time, you're through
42:10
Speaker 2: most of it. You can introduce compound words like shoelace,
42:13
Speaker 2: prefixes and suffixes and more complex site words. You may
42:17
Speaker 2: also need to directly train common names, as these are
42:19
Speaker 2: notoriously these notoriously violate phonological rules. Names are a whole
42:25
Speaker 2: different set, a whole different ballgame. Yeah, and so that
42:28
Speaker 2: is something to consider as far as that. But I
42:30
Speaker 2: think at this point in time you're pretty much through
42:32
Speaker 2: the kind of the nuts and bolts of how somebody
42:35
Speaker 2: would read.
42:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, and as we mentioned, like reading is not just decoding,
42:39
Speaker 1: it is a very important piece of comprehension. If you're
42:41
Speaker 1: not comprehension, the decoding is not doing any work for
42:43
Speaker 1: you at all. So like that should go hand in
42:46
Speaker 1: hand with this. People have taught parrots and rats how
42:49
Speaker 1: to like read in the sense that they can respond
42:53
Speaker 1: to a textual prompt, but like they can't use that
42:58
Speaker 1: text to learn untrained skill. We can. I can like
43:02
Speaker 1: write down instructions, have you follow them, and you'll learn
43:04
Speaker 1: new behavior because of symbols I scribbled on paper. Like
43:08
Speaker 1: the fact that we can do that is amazing. That's
43:10
Speaker 1: really cool. And so like no non human animals seem
43:13
Speaker 1: to do anything quite at that level of like agility
43:16
Speaker 1: and flexibility and rapidity. Right, those animals, like I said,
43:20
Speaker 1: they can respond to that text. I mean to them,
43:22
Speaker 1: it's like any other signal that you've taught them that
43:25
Speaker 1: means like do a thing, and they just learn that
43:27
Speaker 1: particular signal means do that thing. But again, like they're
43:30
Speaker 1: not you couldn't then feed them a new combination of
43:32
Speaker 1: those symbols and have them learn something else from that,
43:34
Speaker 1: which again humans can do and it does enable comprehension
43:38
Speaker 1: and humans because again they can they can derive like
43:41
Speaker 1: new information from that. For the sake of time, we
43:44
Speaker 1: can't go into that much here specifically, but comprehension is
43:48
Speaker 1: like an important piece just to suffice it to say
43:50
Speaker 1: that might entail some vocabulary building and might entail a
43:53
Speaker 1: lot of opportunities to like read and then ask them
43:56
Speaker 1: questions about what they read. You can have them ask
43:58
Speaker 1: you questions about what they read, that sort of thing,
44:01
Speaker 1: and you can use that to do that vocabulary building
44:04
Speaker 1: a little bit while you're helping the student to decode
44:06
Speaker 1: the words that they're reading and understand what they mean.
44:09
Speaker 1: If they don't already recognize them. In many cases they will.
44:11
Speaker 1: They're like, oh, I've heard that word said, I know
44:14
Speaker 1: what it means now, I know what it looks like
44:15
Speaker 1: when it's represented symbolically. You know what I mean?
44:18
Speaker 2: Right?
44:18
Speaker 1: And you also want to have them practice answering questions
44:20
Speaker 1: about the passage, have them read the passage and retail
44:23
Speaker 1: details when the passage is taken away, so it's like, hey,
44:27
Speaker 1: tell me about that story that we just read, and
44:29
Speaker 1: just see like how much of it are they able
44:30
Speaker 1: to tell you? And then another piece of that that
44:33
Speaker 1: might be important is can they retell it in the
44:35
Speaker 1: order in which things occurred and just see like how
44:38
Speaker 1: well they're grasping that. So anyway, those are just some
44:41
Speaker 1: additional titboints, if you will, to sort of add on
44:43
Speaker 1: top of the final piece here is ensuring that you
44:48
Speaker 1: embed opportunities to check for model reinforce and encourage like
44:53
Speaker 1: comprehension of the text, in addition to the fact that
44:56
Speaker 1: they're decoding.
44:57
Speaker 2: Right. Absolutely, So, I guess like the moral of the
44:59
Speaker 2: story is, now you know how to do this, so
45:01
Speaker 2: go teach people how to read. And maybe, just maybe,
45:05
Speaker 2: if you're close enough to this, somebody here could teach
45:08
Speaker 2: Trump how to read.
45:11
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe. And I think, as we said at the
45:14
Speaker 1: beginning of this, I would argue that reading is inherently
45:17
Speaker 1: a good I think that our language is a very
45:19
Speaker 1: special and amazing thing, and that the more that we
45:22
Speaker 1: can talk to each other, the better off we will
45:24
Speaker 1: all be as a species. And one way to talk
45:27
Speaker 1: to each other is through text. That is a great
45:29
Speaker 1: way to spread our language around to one another. And
45:32
Speaker 1: so I think it's a wonderful thing that everybody deserves
45:36
Speaker 1: to have access to, and it doesn't have to be English, obviously,
45:40
Speaker 1: but reading just inherently is a good thing and people
45:42
Speaker 1: should do it. Greed cool, all right, we did it.
45:46
Speaker 1: We taught people how to teach people how to read.
45:51
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a podcast, so I don't know how
45:53
Speaker 1: much you got out of it, but that's your freebe
45:55
Speaker 1: workshop that This is kind of the secret sauce. We
45:58
Speaker 1: gave it away. You have it now. Yeah, and again
46:01
Speaker 1: it's it's because I believe so fervently in the fact
46:03
Speaker 1: that reading is inherent good for humanity.
46:06
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think more reading, more education, is better for everybody.
46:10
Speaker 2: It benefits literally everybody.
46:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just yeah, there's there's there's. It's one of
46:15
Speaker 1: those things where it's like it's kind of a panacea. There.
46:18
Speaker 1: There are so few panacea out there, reading is kind
46:20
Speaker 1: of one of them. Yeah, And I think a lot
46:22
Speaker 1: of people would rightfully point out we don't necessarily need
46:24
Speaker 1: to go down this rabbit hole, but apparently I'm going
46:26
Speaker 1: to go a little bit. It's like when the Internet
46:28
Speaker 1: happened and a lot of people thought, what a boon
46:31
Speaker 1: for democracy, what a triumph for freedom. We have created
46:35
Speaker 1: a way to connect more people than ever, And what
46:38
Speaker 1: it also did was give a much much, much more
46:42
Speaker 1: powerful megaphone to bad actors. And so while I do
46:47
Speaker 1: think it did accomplish goal a of connect a lot
46:50
Speaker 1: of people, help really eliminate geographical boundaries and spread culture
46:55
Speaker 1: around in a beautiful way, it also has enabled the
46:59
Speaker 1: voice of to fly louder and higher than ever, and
47:03
Speaker 1: that one could certainly make the case that teaching a
47:05
Speaker 1: lot of people to read more or less facilitates that,
47:09
Speaker 1: and I think that in a way, You're not wrong.
47:10
Speaker 1: I think that is that could be an outcome here.
47:13
Speaker 1: So we need a lot more thoughtful kind people doing
47:16
Speaker 1: a lot more of the speaking so that we can
47:18
Speaker 1: help create a new generation of a lot more thoughtful
47:21
Speaker 1: kind people and see if we can talk our species
47:25
Speaker 1: out of being a hateful, nihilistic group of in cell
47:29
Speaker 1: weirdos who believe conspiracy theories.
47:32
Speaker 2: Right exactly, nailed Cool?
47:34
Speaker 1: What at What a great note to end?
47:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's such an uplifting note. Yay.
47:41
Speaker 1: Anyway, I hope that you made it this far. If
47:43
Speaker 1: you did, thank you for being here. I'm glad that
47:45
Speaker 1: you listened to that. Hopefully you got something out of this.
47:48
Speaker 1: I think that's what we have to say about teaching
47:49
Speaker 1: literacy for now. We do always end our discussions with
47:53
Speaker 1: a bunch of recommendations to really just one for me,
47:55
Speaker 1: one for Shane. But we'll do those and I do
47:58
Speaker 1: have some other credits to get through. Is there any
47:59
Speaker 1: before or we transition? Is there anything that I forgot
48:02
Speaker 1: or anything you like to add and then we can
48:03
Speaker 1: get to wrap up here?
48:05
Speaker 2: Nothing on my end.
48:06
Speaker 1: I feel good, Okay, well here I will add ads. Okay,
48:17
Speaker 1: we are back. As I mentioned at the top of this,
48:19
Speaker 1: if you would like to support the show, one way
48:21
Speaker 1: you can do that is by joining us on Patreon.
48:23
Speaker 1: If you do that, you get behind the scenes content,
48:25
Speaker 1: ad free content and all kinds of special stuff like that. Also,
48:29
Speaker 1: it just helps us continue to make this a podcast,
48:31
Speaker 1: which of course we appreciate. And you will be among
48:34
Speaker 1: the list of people who will have the grand privilege
48:36
Speaker 1: of having their name read to you at the end
48:38
Speaker 1: of these episodes with much fanfare and applause, because these
48:42
Speaker 1: are generous, wonderful people who deserve fanfair and applause. And
48:45
Speaker 1: that is Mike, m Meghan, Mike T, Justin, Kim Brad, Stephanie,
48:50
Speaker 1: Brian Ashley, and Kiara. Thank you again and again and
48:54
Speaker 1: again and again.
48:55
Speaker 2: You're the best, all the against, all the against.
48:59
Speaker 1: Forever and ever all right, and you can you too,
49:03
Speaker 1: can add your name to that list by supporting us
49:04
Speaker 1: over there. If you don't want to support us over there,
49:06
Speaker 1: then you can head over and you can pick up
49:08
Speaker 1: some merch from our merch store. Pick up that dusty
49:11
Speaker 1: old merch and send it your way, just kidding, it's
49:13
Speaker 1: not dusty. It's made made on demand, some of it,
49:16
Speaker 1: so it'll come to you basically brand new. You can
49:19
Speaker 1: also leave us a rating and a review. Wherever you
49:21
Speaker 1: listen to podcasts, you can like and subscribe, and of
49:24
Speaker 1: course tell a friend, and then we would love to
49:27
Speaker 1: hear your ideas about reading. We also take keeping amounts
49:30
Speaker 1: of praise and we can We can also appreciate constructive
49:34
Speaker 1: criticism when it happens, and so you can do that
49:37
Speaker 1: by emailing us directly at info at WWD WWD podcast
49:42
Speaker 1: dot com. You can also read just on the social
49:44
Speaker 1: media platforms as there. Oh, and then there is something
49:48
Speaker 1: else I was going to ask you, but I remember,
49:49
Speaker 1: and that something else is that my team of people
49:52
Speaker 1: is the reason that this podcast can keep help happening.
49:54
Speaker 1: I would love to try and like keep it up
49:56
Speaker 1: like come hell or high water. But I can't and
49:58
Speaker 1: so I need I need my people. Well, one of
50:00
Speaker 1: them is Shane reading in fact checking from Shane and myself.
50:03
Speaker 1: So thank you for recording with me today.
50:04
Speaker 2: Shane anytime, thanks for having me.
50:07
Speaker 1: Our social media coordinator is Emma Wilson, and our editor
50:10
Speaker 1: in chief, who had to do a lot of work
50:13
Speaker 1: on this episode, is Justin. So thank you, Justin, yes
50:17
Speaker 1: for everything you do.
50:19
Speaker 2: For sure.
50:20
Speaker 1: Now, is there anything that I forgot or anything you'd
50:21
Speaker 1: like to add before we transition to the most fun part,
50:24
Speaker 1: which is recommendations.
50:25
Speaker 2: No, I'm ready for recommendations.
50:28
Speaker 1: Let's recommend some stuff. Yay, recommendations.
50:39
Speaker 2: I am recommending a book. So I recently finished the
50:43
Speaker 2: book by let me say it like this. Maguai is
50:47
Speaker 2: one of my favorite bands. Love this band. I love
50:50
Speaker 2: this band for a long time. I think they're really fascinating.
50:52
Speaker 2: They're really interesting. That's where we got the title for
50:54
Speaker 2: one of our episodes, The Sun Smells Too Loud.
50:57
Speaker 1: Yep, remember that?
50:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, So this is from this MAGWHI well, the main songwriter,
51:03
Speaker 2: guitar players slash singer of the band Stuart Braithwaite he
51:07
Speaker 2: decided to write a book and it's called Spaceships over Glasgow,
51:10
Speaker 2: and it's the story. It's his story about how he
51:13
Speaker 2: discovered music, how he got into punk rock, and his
51:17
Speaker 2: viewpoints on like the world around him as he is
51:20
Speaker 2: exploring becoming a band and like actually getting popular, and
51:24
Speaker 2: so it's a really great kind of story from his
51:27
Speaker 2: teenage years until Maguai put out their last like one
51:30
Speaker 2: of their last records. They're still a band, but it
51:32
Speaker 2: was like at the time this was recording I think
51:34
Speaker 2: they had put out. I think the last one they
51:36
Speaker 2: talk about is Hardcore Never Dies But You Will, which
51:38
Speaker 2: is like one of the last records. Okay, so they're
51:41
Speaker 2: they're known for like their tongue in cheek kind of stuff.
51:44
Speaker 2: So it's a great read. Is I would say that
51:48
Speaker 2: if you are a music fan, it is a really
51:50
Speaker 2: really great read because it talks a lot about influences
51:55
Speaker 2: and records and different bands, Like it talks about kind
51:58
Speaker 2: of his experience playing with bands or heroes and like
52:01
Speaker 2: seeing them in places, seeing Nirvana reading which was like
52:04
Speaker 2: a big deal, Like, so it's really cool. It's a
52:07
Speaker 2: really cool, interesting read. I think if you're interested in
52:09
Speaker 2: that stuff and if you like Maglai, then it's a
52:11
Speaker 2: really fun story diving into the world of Maglay. So
52:14
Speaker 2: that's my recommendation. I thought it was a really fun,
52:16
Speaker 2: fun read.
52:17
Speaker 1: Wow, you've read it feels like a lot of a
52:20
Speaker 1: lot of books that were sort of memoirs, like people
52:24
Speaker 1: and bands and that sort of thing.
52:27
Speaker 2: So I have this is my neuroses. I have usually
52:32
Speaker 2: a lineup of books and I kind of pulled them
52:34
Speaker 2: from different shelves in my house. And so one thing
52:37
Speaker 2: that I always have in the lineup ready to go
52:39
Speaker 2: is one music book, so I always try to read.
52:41
Speaker 2: So I always try to do that as I go.
52:44
Speaker 2: So like it's usually like I've always got one Stephen King,
52:47
Speaker 2: one Charles mccowski, one music book, and then in one
52:50
Speaker 2: behavior analysis book, and then the rest of it's like
52:53
Speaker 2: whatever from whatever shelf is in my house. So they're
52:55
Speaker 2: usually like ten or fifteen books lined up at a time.
52:59
Speaker 1: Wow. Okay, all right, Space Ship's Over Glasgow by Stuart Braithwaite, Right, yes, okay,
53:05
Speaker 1: I'm recommending a film. A movie at the time that
53:09
Speaker 1: we're recording this, this is in theaters. I do believe
53:12
Speaker 1: that by the time this comes out it still will be.
53:16
Speaker 1: This is a movie called Sinners, starring primarily Michael B. Jordan,
53:20
Speaker 1: also has Hailey Steinfeld in it and a lot of
53:23
Speaker 1: other very important, notable actors that did a really really
53:26
Speaker 1: good job. I don't want to spoil very much, so
53:30
Speaker 1: I'm not going to share much about the plot, but
53:32
Speaker 1: I will tell you this is what you would maybe
53:34
Speaker 1: call a scary movie, and it does have a not
53:39
Speaker 1: insignificant amount of gore, meaning there's blood, not gratuitously. I
53:45
Speaker 1: think it's done very well. But this is on as
53:48
Speaker 1: far as scary movies go. There's like slasher films and
53:52
Speaker 1: all kinds of like ghosts and that sort of thing.
53:54
Speaker 1: This is what I would put in the realm of
53:56
Speaker 1: like paranormal scary movie, if you will, sort of in
54:00
Speaker 1: that vein. Okay, but I loved this movie. I thought
54:04
Speaker 1: the effects were absolutely fantastic. The acting is really really
54:08
Speaker 1: really good. The setting and the esthetic is really captivating,
54:12
Speaker 1: and the pace is fantastic. The music's really good. I
54:16
Speaker 1: just think this movie works at on like every level.
54:18
Speaker 1: So if you're into scary movies, then I strongly recommend this.
54:24
Speaker 1: I actually I want to go see it again. I
54:25
Speaker 1: was I always like enjoyed it so much. But if
54:28
Speaker 1: that's not your cup of tea, then you probably won't
54:31
Speaker 1: like it as much as I did. But I thought
54:33
Speaker 1: it was absolutely lovely and a really good, really really
54:36
Speaker 1: great film. So Sinners directed by Ryan Kugler.
54:39
Speaker 2: It's on my list.
54:40
Speaker 1: Yeah. History with Ryan Kugler and Michael B. Jordan working together,
54:43
Speaker 1: they're a great team. There has been fantastic so I
54:46
Speaker 1: love it. I think that's what we have to say
54:48
Speaker 1: about movies, and more importantly, I think we have completed
54:51
Speaker 1: the objective we sought out to complete with respect to
54:54
Speaker 1: teaching and disseminating literacy instruction. So I hope that you
54:57
Speaker 1: found something valuable in there. As I said, you can
55:00
Speaker 1: feel free to reach out to us directly. We'd love
55:01
Speaker 1: to hear from you. But I think that that's pretty
55:03
Speaker 1: much what we've got to say today. Is there anything
55:05
Speaker 1: you like to add or anything I forgot before we
55:07
Speaker 1: say oh goodbyes?
55:08
Speaker 2: No, I think that covers it for this one.
55:10
Speaker 1: Thank you all. This is Abraham and this is Sheene.
55:12
Speaker 1: We're out.
55:13
Speaker 2: See up. You've been listening to Why we do what
55:16
Speaker 2: we do?
55:17
Speaker 1: You can learn more about this and other episodes by
55:20
Speaker 1: going to WWDWWD podcast dot com
55:24
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, and we hope you have an awesome day.