Latest / Karl and Crew / Parenting and Teach Q&A with Arlene Pellicane & Discipleship Q&A with Dr. David Nelms
Transcript
- 0:00S1: Broadcasting from Chicago, across North America and beyond. It's Carl
- 0:06S1: and crew. Come as you are an experienced guide, overcome
- 0:10S1: what seems impossible and live as you never imagined delivering
- 0:16S1: the truth daily.
- 0:17S2: If it were possible to have every worldly gain available
- 0:21S2: and you're forfeiting your soul, there's no amount of gain
- 0:25S2: that would make it worth it.
- 0:26S3: Our own way never ever works. Because it's apart from
- 0:29S3: the life source, which is God.
- 0:32S4: For me, growing up, love was always conditional and can
- 0:36S4: be taken from you. Christ's love can't. And he went
- 0:39S4: to the cross with my mind and my heart that night.
- 0:44S1: Now from the call of Hope Studios, this is Carl
- 0:48S1: and crew.
- 0:49S5: We think about rescue. We think about this in a
- 0:51S5: lot of terms. And any kind of spiritual rescue has
- 0:57S5: a lot of anecdotal stuff that relates to everyday life.
- 1:02S5: Have you ever noticed that, Ali?
- 1:04S2: Yes, very much so.
- 1:06S5: So we've got a special guest in here, Arlene Pellekaan.
- 1:10S5: We're talking kids in tech and we're taking your phone
- 1:13S5: calls 805 557898. Any question you've got for Arlene, now's
- 1:19S5: your time. You want to ask an expert? What do
- 1:22S5: we do with kids in tech?
- 1:23S2: 805 557898 Arlene, before we get to solutions, of which
- 1:29S2: I know you have many practical strategies, tell us the problem.
- 1:33S2: Give us the bad news. Every single person listening or many,
- 1:37S2: many people listening, I should say, recognize that screens are
- 1:41S2: are not. Their relationship with screens are not completely healthy
- 1:44S2: both themselves and their kids. I'm not speaking for everybody,
- 1:47S2: but I'm speaking for most. How bad is the problem?
- 1:51S6: The majority, that's for sure. We know all these terrible statistics.
- 1:55S6: We've heard them before. And when you look at a
- 1:58S6: phone or a or tablet, particularly for a child. I
- 2:01S6: want you to remember this conversation and think of the a, B, c,
- 2:05S6: d harms. A anxiety amplifier. B bad babysitter c childhood
- 2:13S6: killer d dopamine dealer. So that when I give this
- 2:17S6: to a child, I am going to I'm going to
- 2:20S6: amplify whatever anxiety is already there. And if there's no anxiety,
- 2:24S6: we will give you some. We will dish it out
- 2:26S6: to you. Bad babysitter. I'm going to leave this with you.
- 2:29S6: And wow, if it was a babysitter in real life,
- 2:31S6: I've come home at the end of the evening. You're
- 2:33S6: still on watching TV, eating potato chips, looking at a
- 2:38S6: rated-r movie. I'm going to fire that babysitter. Right. Childhood killer.
- 2:43S6: Once you have that device, you know the times of, oh,
- 2:46S6: look at mommy. That butterfly is so pretty. You know,
- 2:49S6: you can kiss that goodbye. All those little things of wonder,
- 2:53S6: of childhood connection with your parents that will be replaced
- 2:58S6: by the screen and just kill your childhood and the
- 3:01S6: dopamine dealer, you know, who calls their customers users, drug lords,
- 3:06S6: tech companies. And once they taste this really highly addictive substance,
- 3:12S6: and yes, it's a digital drug, but I don't have
- 3:15S6: to convince you because you all you have to do
- 3:16S6: is look around and everyone's glued to their phones and
- 3:18S6: you think, how is that happening? It's because that dopamine,
- 3:21S6: where else in life can you get that? So before
- 3:24S6: you say, oh, I'm going to, you know, buy a
- 3:26S6: Christmas present for my grandchild or I'm going to get,
- 3:29S6: you know, say, wait a minute, this has a B, C,
- 3:31S6: D harms I better, I better delay on this.
- 3:34S5: Good grief. I don't know if you've shared that here
- 3:37S5: before and I wasn't listening, but that is new.
- 3:40S6: It's a new way to look at the phone.
- 3:42S7: It's in my book.
- 3:42S6: The Great Tech Reset. Yeah. We're going to rescue some
- 3:46S6: kids here.
- 3:47S7: It's our well, it's to be truth.
- 3:50S6: Telling.
- 3:50S7: You that telling about.
- 3:51S5: Give that to us again. Give it. Give us a b,
- 3:53S5: c d yeah. One more time.
- 3:55S6: The A is in anxiety amplifier, B bad babysitter, C
- 4:01S6: childhood killer and d dopamine dealer.
- 4:06S7: Wow.
- 4:07S5: Yeah. That's epic. I mean, that's epic.
- 4:10S7: And you know.
- 4:11S6: It's the same thing for adults. You know that.
- 4:13S7: It's.
- 4:14S5: Very.
- 4:14S7: Similar.
- 4:15S6: And the childhood killer is between you and perhaps your
- 4:18S6: own children, your niece or nephew, the kids in your life,
- 4:20S6: or just the you that wonder. A wonder killer for adults.
- 4:26S5: Okay. Arlene Pelikan is our guest. Nuff said. There. You
- 4:29S5: got questions for Arlene? How do you get this under control?
- 4:33S5: I mean, if A, B, C, and D are real
- 4:36S5: and they are, how do you get them under control? 805, 55, 78, 98.
- 4:42S5: Let's load up the phone lines. Ask the experts, wherever
- 4:46S5: you are in this world, grab your phone 800, 555 7898.
- 4:51S5: When we get back, we're going to take as many
- 4:53S5: calls as we can. Call now 805 557898.
- 4:59S1: Get in the know with life's biggest questions. It's Ask
- 5:03S1: the Experts week with Carl and crew.
- 5:05S2: Ask the expert this morning. Right now we are taking
- 5:08S2: your calls, your questions on kids and tech. Arlene Pelican, speaker, author,
- 5:13S2: host of the Happy Home podcast. Our guest expert want
- 5:16S2: to get right to the phones. Lindsay's calling in this
- 5:18S2: morning from Sarasota, Sarasota, Florida. Go ahead and give us
- 5:22S2: your question on kids in Tech for Arlene.
- 5:25S8: Great. Thank you so much, Arlene. It's an honor to
- 5:27S8: speak with you. I use you as a resource all
- 5:29S8: the time. I'm a a rarity in that I, um,
- 5:34S8: my 11 and 14 year old do not have handheld devices.
- 5:36S8: They do not have phones. And I'm just humbly bragging
- 5:40S8: that my my kids are amazing. And my husband's a
- 5:43S8: school counselor and has seen the evolution or maybe I
- 5:46S8: should say devolution of like, what has happened to kids
- 5:48S8: with phones. And so, and our kids thankfully have understood
- 5:52S8: because they see the change in their friends. Um, my
- 5:55S8: son is going into high school next year. Um, he's
- 5:57S8: actually going to the, a private Christian school that my
- 6:00S8: husband is a counselor at. And we do know that
- 6:02S8: they lock down phones during the school day, which is
- 6:05S8: a huge blessing. However, I know, you know, there's social
- 6:09S8: outside of school and I'm just trying to navigate this
- 6:12S8: in a way we're still honoring. Um, we don't want
- 6:15S8: them to have screens. We're considering just getting a dumb phone,
- 6:18S8: like just something that can talk and text. Um, but
- 6:21S8: I'm just, I'm struggling on how to properly navigate this, um,
- 6:24S8: going forward.
- 6:26S6: You're doing such a good job. So awesome. Um, I
- 6:29S6: would you, my husband had the saying that, oh, it's
- 6:31S6: going so well, why would we want to change it?
- 6:34S6: So that was kind of our mindset coming into high
- 6:36S6: school was like, okay, this is we can see a
- 6:40S6: difference in our kids and they are doing better because
- 6:43S6: they don't have video games, social media, a personal phone
- 6:46S6: right at their fingertips. So I do think a dumb
- 6:49S6: phone is a good idea for you to start high
- 6:51S6: school with, and not to give it as a gift,
- 6:54S6: but instead to give it as a trial. You know, like, hey,
- 6:57S6: let's try this out. This is new for all of us.
- 7:00S6: Let's do this for a month and then come back
- 7:02S6: and let's just see like, we'll talk with you. You know,
- 7:05S6: how are you feeling about this? What's happening with your time,
- 7:08S6: you know, and kind of see what kind of attention
- 7:10S6: they're giving even to that dumb phone because you may
- 7:13S6: find like my word, every ten minutes you're checking that
- 7:16S6: thing to see if you have a group text. And
- 7:18S6: so you can, you know, check that. But I would
- 7:20S6: start with a dumb phone for us. We didn't introduce
- 7:23S6: a smartphone until the senior year later. And that worked
- 7:26S6: out really well.
- 7:27S5: Arlene, how do you prevent a kid? Because the vast
- 7:31S5: tide of kids out there are on these phones left
- 7:34S5: and right. Right?
- 7:35S7: Yeah.
- 7:35S5: Yes. And some, by the way, some really good kids
- 7:39S5: are navigating it. So let's be real fair here. There's
- 7:42S5: some there's some that are navigating it. Well, the vast
- 7:45S5: majority aren't. How do you how do you help a
- 7:50S5: kid not get tech addicted and not get bitter. Because, look,
- 7:55S5: I mean, in the old days it was you can't
- 7:58S5: go to this party, you can't go to this dance.
- 8:00S5: And I'll tell you what, we embittered a lot of
- 8:02S5: kids against Christ in the church. How do you do that?
- 8:05S6: Yes. You know, I think of the Josh McDowell rules
- 8:08S6: without relationship, equal rebellion. So it's you know what? If
- 8:12S6: we're going to have these strict policies with technology, we
- 8:15S6: are going to amp up the fun. We are going
- 8:18S6: to have so much fun in our house. We are
- 8:19S6: going to go out, we're going to figure out what
- 8:21S6: do the kids like. We're going to do things around
- 8:23S6: their interests, whether it's music, skiing, art, horses, cars, whatever
- 8:28S6: it is, we're going to be into it. If you
- 8:30S6: like it, I like it. So, you know, maybe at
- 8:33S6: first your kids are going to be like, I'd really
- 8:35S6: rather have the technology than to have my mommy and
- 8:38S6: daddy be my friend about this thing. But you just
- 8:41S6: be relentless and we are going to make our house
- 8:44S6: a place of fun, a place of love, a place
- 8:47S6: where we do two handed activities that we're involved in
- 8:51S6: real life and what will eventually happen, and hopefully sooner
- 8:54S6: than later, your kids will realize like, oh wow, my
- 8:57S6: parents are on my side. They actually don't hate me.
- 9:00S6: They're not trying to ruin my life. And I hate
- 9:04S6: to admit it, but I'm kind of having a good
- 9:05S6: time here and I feel pretty good and healthy. You know,
- 9:08S6: that is what you're aiming for and really give them
- 9:09S6: skills that they can. Okay, so they missed out on
- 9:13S6: they didn't know the latest TikTok craze, but wow, they
- 9:17S6: sure are getting really good at whatever it is, right?
- 9:20S6: Woodworking with, you know, sports, music, etc. and that's going
- 9:24S6: to buoy them in the loss of not having the
- 9:27S6: technology real quick.
- 9:29S5: Uh, Arlene, this is the bigger. Yes. And I'm big
- 9:32S5: on this one. I think when we even approach our
- 9:35S5: spiritual life from, oh, God doesn't want me doing that.
- 9:39S5: We've totally missed it. It's the bigger. Yes. You got
- 9:43S5: to be screaming in these kids ears, right?
- 9:46S6: Yeah. That's right. You know, and, and the spiritual Component
- 9:50S6: of that technology is huge because in AI, we get
- 9:55S6: to be God. We get to make our own God.
- 9:57S6: We get to create an ever present, something that's always
- 10:00S6: affirming to us. And that's not how real the real
- 10:04S6: gospel works. And at the end of the day, you're
- 10:07S6: empty without AI. But when you have that bigger. Yes,
- 10:10S6: if I am surrendered to Jesus Christ, I'm having an
- 10:12S6: adventure with him. You have abundant life. You have joy.
- 10:15S6: You have peace. You have purpose.
- 10:17S2: Arlene Pelikan, our guest right now taking your questions on
- 10:20S2: kids and tech. 805 5578980. Let's go to the phones.
- 10:26S2: Mickey calling in from Smyrna, Tennessee. It looks like you
- 10:29S2: are about to ask the question that many are thinking.
- 10:32S2: Go ahead Mickey.
- 10:34S9: Yes, my grandson is addicted to the tablet and it
- 10:37S9: is just grinding on my nerves.
- 10:40S7: Yeah.
- 10:41S9: I mean.
- 10:44S10: Ah it's grinding. I'm sorry for laughing.
- 10:48S9: He has. That's okay. He has a heart of gold
- 10:52S9: and he works with me. Mowing a lot, you know.
- 10:54S9: And that keeps his mind off of it. But as
- 10:57S9: soon as we're done mowing, he's got to go right
- 10:59S9: back to that addiction. And he's driving me crazy. I said, Jesus,
- 11:02S9: give me some wisdom on how to handle this without
- 11:06S9: seeing a temper tantrum from him, you know?
- 11:09S6: Yeah, yeah. Good for you. Good for you. Because you
- 11:12S6: can see that difference. You pray for your grandchild, say, Lord,
- 11:16S6: you know, give wisdom. And I realized that it's biological
- 11:20S6: so that biologically his brain is so trained to, I
- 11:23S6: need to go get that. So it's not like he's
- 11:26S6: a good kid. He's a bad kid. He's biologically trained
- 11:28S6: to go to that tablet. So it is that tablet
- 11:30S6: that is the evil, addictive monster. Now you have to
- 11:34S6: be not a crazy grandparent, you know, with your adult kids.
- 11:38S6: So they oh, dad, he's crazy about this. So it's
- 11:41S6: praying for an opportunity to share with your kids, maybe research. Again, my,
- 11:46S6: my new book is called The Great Tech reset reclaiming
- 11:49S6: real life for Christian families. That's a book you can say, hey,
- 11:52S6: look at the research. What's it doing to the brain?
- 11:55S6: Sometimes parents, they, they, they don't want to change in
- 11:58S6: terms of, I you're, you're from another generation. You don't
- 12:00S6: understand this technological world, but just keep thinking and talking
- 12:04S6: about what's this doing to my son's brain, my grandson's brain?
- 12:07S6: What's it doing to his ability to read, his ability
- 12:10S6: to be bored, his ability to be creative, his ability
- 12:12S6: to self-regulate himself and do a hard thing even when
- 12:16S6: he doesn't feel like it. And really with the adult parents,
- 12:20S6: you know, try to talk about that, that we want
- 12:22S6: this grandson to have a healthy brain. And I want
- 12:24S6: to help you guys. How can I help you? And
- 12:26S6: while he's at your house, you're doing the best thing
- 12:28S6: you can keep that kid mowing so he can't get.
- 12:30S7: To the tablet, get.
- 12:31S10: More yards.
- 12:32S5: Uh, we used to unashamedly. I want to use the
- 12:37S5: word bribe, but incentivize. That's a better.
- 12:40S7: Word. That's right.
- 12:40S5: We used to incentive. We used to incentivize our kids
- 12:44S5: on scripture reading and we incentivize them pretty picking, well,
- 12:48S5: to be honest with you. Yeah. And there's something to
- 12:51S5: be said because every God of this age is incentivizing
- 12:55S5: our kids some direction. Speak to that. Is that out
- 12:59S5: of bounds or is that okay?
- 13:01S6: I do not think that is out of bounds. You know,
- 13:03S6: so what we did is we instead of giving an allowance,
- 13:07S6: we would pay for certain things. So we'd pay for books.
- 13:10S6: You want to read a book? Great. After you read
- 13:12S6: the book, you'll get 20 bucks in your hand after
- 13:15S6: you give a book report at the dinner table, and
- 13:16S6: we'll put 80 bucks in the bank for you. So
- 13:19S6: that's how we did it. Like we're gonna.
- 13:20S7: Do.
- 13:21S6: It that way. And then for scriptures, we do games
- 13:24S6: of like whoever, like I'd say a scripture, and then
- 13:27S6: whoever could ring the bell and say it like they
- 13:29S6: got a dollar. So it's true. So those kinds of.
- 13:32S7: Things.
- 13:33S6: It's okay, you're going to spend money anyway. So you
- 13:36S6: might as well spend the money in something, you know,
- 13:39S6: have this goal of, hey, we're going to go screen
- 13:41S6: free for the month. And at the end of the month,
- 13:43S6: we're going to go to this amusement park that we've
- 13:45S6: been wanting to go to, you know, so. So all
- 13:47S6: these things that you're already going to do with your
- 13:50S6: with your money, use it to incentivize them to get
- 13:54S6: off the screens, to do something worthwhile to be in Scripture,
- 13:57S6: serve someone else, etc..
- 13:59S2: Arlene Pelikan with us right now. Got a question that
- 14:01S2: came in by text message. Someone says, what can I
- 14:04S2: do with a husband? That first thing in the morning?
- 14:07S2: He picks up his phone. It's not good morning, wants
- 14:10S2: to watch TV kind of nonstop. We would be, um,
- 14:15S2: remiss if we suggest that this is just a problem
- 14:17S2: with our kids. I mean, every generation, but I'm hearing
- 14:21S2: more and more people who are saying, you know, I've
- 14:23S2: got my parents who are who are older and they
- 14:26S2: can't put down their phones. What do we do for
- 14:28S2: the adults who are having the same struggle?
- 14:31S6: Oh, it's so huge. This is huge. And so I
- 14:34S6: think that it begins with starting on yourself instead of
- 14:38S6: your spouse, because once it's you don't do this and
- 14:41S6: you need to do this and you need to do this.
- 14:43S6: It's like, that's not going to happen. But the I statements.
- 14:46S6: You know, I really miss you. I, I, I'd like
- 14:49S6: to see your eyeballs in the morning. I don't feel
- 14:51S6: connected with you. Could we try something? How about like
- 14:55S6: the first 15 minutes of the day? No phones. Could
- 14:58S6: we try that for five days? Because I miss you.
- 15:00S6: I want to be more connected to you. And maybe
- 15:03S6: it's really huge acts of kindness that that you're you're
- 15:07S6: starting this change by doing the unexpected, you know, that. Oh, wow,
- 15:11S6: you just kissed me. Why did you do that? Or
- 15:13S6: you bought me my favorite cup of coffee? What's going on?
- 15:16S6: You know, something that you do to shake us out
- 15:19S6: of our stupor to say, I miss you. Could we
- 15:22S6: do something different? Might we try a different habit for
- 15:25S6: five days? And and I just I want a better
- 15:27S6: relationship with you. And most good spouses will say good
- 15:31S6: and decent people will say, yeah, okay, I want a
- 15:34S6: good relationship with you, too.
- 15:36S5: All right. Let's get a couple more questions in here
- 15:38S5: for Arlene Pelikan 805 557898 805 557898 tech and kids
- 15:48S5: and adults.
- 15:50S1: When you don't know who's better to ask than an expert.
- 15:54S1: You're listening to Carl and Crew.
- 15:56S2: Taking your questions for Arlene Pelikan on Kids and Tech. Arlene,
- 16:01S2: here's a question that I have. Does moderation work with
- 16:04S2: this stuff? I mean.
- 16:06S5: It's a great question.
- 16:07S2: The compromise seems to be okay. Maybe we don't get
- 16:10S2: rid of all of it, but maybe we set some parameters.
- 16:13S2: The challenge, as I've definitely experienced in our household, is
- 16:17S2: that it's difficult. The moderation has been challenging. Tell us,
- 16:22S2: is it am I trying something that's just doomed to fail?
- 16:26S7: You are.
- 16:26S6: You are correct that this a lot of people feel
- 16:29S6: this way. I would say for most moderation doesn't work
- 16:34S6: and for some it will. And you know, I lean
- 16:37S6: on Melanie Hempy over at Screen Strong. She's a nurse
- 16:40S6: and kind of like, well, you wouldn't use this addictive
- 16:43S6: thing just a little, right? So it's like, okay, this
- 16:46S6: is addictive for a purpose. And, and to think of,
- 16:49S6: you know, I just think of like a plate of cookies, right?
- 16:52S6: And if I say I have a plate of cookies
- 16:55S6: in my house, like a dozen of them open and
- 16:59S6: I say, I'm going to use moderation. You know, sometimes
- 17:02S6: that works, but a whole lot of times it does
- 17:04S6: not work. And it's very similar in technology. You know,
- 17:07S6: if I'm really serious about getting healthy and losing weight,
- 17:10S6: then I'm going to say, please get those cookies out
- 17:12S6: of my house. I just can't even look at them
- 17:15S6: because once I start down that path, I'm not going
- 17:17S6: to be able to recover. And, and so that is
- 17:19S6: a realistic question to ask as a family. How is
- 17:23S6: that moderation thing working? And if it isn't, then it's,
- 17:27S6: it's really just not really you, it's not your fault
- 17:29S6: that you're not a bad person. The self-control, it's that
- 17:32S6: this is an addictive product. So which is worse? You know,
- 17:35S6: you're kind of picking your poison. Would I rather. Yeah,
- 17:38S6: struggle with moderation? Or would I rather say, let's get
- 17:41S6: this out of our house.
- 17:43S5: This is a really quick one and it's heart wrenching here.
- 17:46S5: My daughter turned 12 yesterday. Her dad and I are divorced.
- 17:49S5: He's allowed her on TikTok and other portals. And then
- 17:53S5: it goes into this anxiety depression. There is actually cutting
- 17:58S5: and other things that I'm not going to say on air,
- 18:01S5: because the little ears I can't call because I can't
- 18:04S5: keep from crying, she says.
- 18:06S6: Her dad.
- 18:07S5: Her dad can't see the connection. What can I do? Um,
- 18:10S5: so here's, here's what I want to say first, because
- 18:14S5: Arlene's going to be out of here soon. Go to
- 18:16S5: Arlene's website. I don't know if you tackle this directly,
- 18:19S5: but happy is our key word here for Arlene. Happy
- 18:22S5: 805 557898. Please go there. It's got a plethora of resources.
- 18:28S5: Text happy to 805 557898 that we got to be
- 18:34S5: quick with this one. Arlene, do you have do you
- 18:36S5: have a resource? What do you do with this?
- 18:38S6: Yeah. You know, and I think it's what you can do,
- 18:41S6: what God can do. So we start there because this
- 18:44S6: is something we as humans cannot do anything about this,
- 18:47S6: but praying for that freedom and that that bondage to
- 18:51S6: be broken, that's the first step. And then to do
- 18:54S6: what you can when, when she is under your roof
- 18:57S6: to show that you are loved and that you're beautiful
- 19:00S6: and giving other experiences. Because when she's on that phone
- 19:03S6: and on TikTok, she is being fed all this poison. And,
- 19:07S6: and you're right, I find a support group of people
- 19:11S6: that are like minded with you that can support you.
- 19:15S5: Mhm. This is so good. And this person just texted happy.
- 19:19S5: She just did it herself. And then she just put
- 19:22S5: thank you with about five exclamation points.
- 19:25S6: Mhm. And we're so sorry.
- 19:27S5: Yeah. And, Arlene, I want to double spike this. God
- 19:30S5: can do miraculous things to reorder that girl's private world
- 19:36S5: in ways like we can't even imagine. And and that bigger. Yes.
- 19:40S5: When you're with her, that's a killer. Okay. Way to go.
- 19:46S5: Happy to. 805. Five. Five. 78. 98. Uh, I think
- 19:50S5: we love Arlene, don't we? Here.
- 19:52S2: Oh my goodness. So much good content on her website podcast.
- 19:56S2: She's written quite a few books. Uh, just text happy
- 19:58S2: to 805 557898 get connected with more of her resources.
- 20:04S1: You've got questions. They've got answers. It's Ask the Experts
- 20:09S1: week with Carl and crew.
- 20:10S5: Ask the experts all day long here. Boy, they just
- 20:13S5: keep coming.
- 20:14S2: I mean, so much good content. You're definitely want to
- 20:17S2: get going to want to get that show cast today.
- 20:19S2: Text show 805 557898. We are full of expert advice.
- 20:25S2: Biblically sound given in love. So just text show to
- 20:29S2: 800 555, 78, 98.
- 20:32S5: Okay. Oh, man. I got to tell you, tomorrow's going
- 20:34S5: to be a big day. We kick off in earnest.
- 20:37S5: Everything share And we're asking you to be a part
- 20:39S5: of this. We're listener supported. We're not asking for a
- 20:42S5: penny today, but I am asking for prayer. I'm asking
- 20:44S5: for just contriteness just asking the spirit. Spirit of the
- 20:48S5: living God. What would you have me do, if anything
- 20:52S5: at all? And as you're bumped and nudged along by
- 20:56S5: the spirit, we'd ask you to jump in. So grateful.
- 20:59S5: In pre share, we've seen a lot of new to
- 21:01S5: the crew jump in here.
- 21:02S2: So encouraging last week. And I know many of you
- 21:05S2: got a couple gifts from us. The Unstoppable Gospel. That
- 21:08S2: book is going to be available throughout. Share comes out
- 21:11S2: officially tomorrow.
- 21:13S5: Yeah, it's it's a big day tomorrow. A lot of
- 21:15S5: cool stuff going on. Um, here's what we've got going on.
- 21:19S5: We are shifting gears now into discipleship. So there's a
- 21:25S5: lot of you that have questions about discipleship and let's
- 21:29S5: prime the pump. I think we got David Nelms with
- 21:32S5: us right now. David, you with us, my man.
- 21:34S11: Yes, I am Carl. Good to hear your voice.
- 21:37S5: Good to good to have you with us. Oh, Ali
- 21:40S5: and I talk about this a lot. We live in
- 21:42S5: a world that is gone, that needs to make a
- 21:45S5: big shift in the church from spectator to engaged, uh,
- 21:51S5: disciple and disciple. What is that gap right now? Is
- 21:56S5: it bigger than we might imagine?
- 22:00S11: Well, you know, I think it depends on the church.
- 22:03S11: I know, I know pastors pretty well. I was one
- 22:06S11: for 37 years, and just about every pastor I know,
- 22:11S11: their heart's desire is to disciple people, to make disciple makers,
- 22:17S11: to see them grow strong in the Lord and be
- 22:19S11: able to disciple others. But wanting it and seeing it
- 22:23S11: happen sometimes are definitely two different things for sure.
- 22:27S2: So what is the what? How do you account for
- 22:30S2: the gap if the desire is there? So every pastor's
- 22:34S2: heart that you know, there's the desire, the want to.
- 22:37S2: But yet it's not happening in so many churches. What
- 22:40S2: do you say?
- 22:41S11: Yeah, yeah, it's good to hear your voice, too. Um,
- 22:45S11: here's this. Just my opinion. Okay. And I want to
- 22:49S11: warn your listeners I am wrong. At least 50% of
- 22:52S11: the time.
- 22:52S12: Okay. Okay. All right.
- 22:55S11: So just as a disclaimer. But what I think has happened,
- 22:59S11: at least from the background I came from, is somewhere
- 23:03S11: we made a turn from church health to church growth.
- 23:09S11: And it's not that you can't have both. You can't
- 23:11S11: have both. But the focus became growing your attendance rather
- 23:18S11: than making disciples who make disciples. And sometimes those two
- 23:25S11: can run side by side. Sometimes they can't. Uh, it's
- 23:29S11: almost like corporate America crept into the church. And so
- 23:34S11: if we were running 100 last year, we need to
- 23:37S11: be running 150 this year or we're not successful.
- 23:40S12: Yeah.
- 23:41S11: And so you begin to do things. Everything you do
- 23:44S11: at the church becomes aimed at increasing the attendance, rather
- 23:50S11: than being aimed at raising up disciples who can make
- 23:54S11: other disciples. Uh, and I could give you all kinds
- 23:57S11: of examples of that. We, we make the service amount
- 24:01S11: of time that we think we can hold their attention. We,
- 24:05S11: we try to make everything as comfortable as we can
- 24:07S11: for people while they're there. We stay away from certain
- 24:12S11: topics that we think might chase people off. And our
- 24:16S11: hope is that by, by, uh, appealing to them, by
- 24:22S11: attracting them. And you guys are familiar with what's often
- 24:25S11: called the Attractional model by attracting them, that we will
- 24:29S11: keep them coming long enough to where the Holy Spirit
- 24:32S11: will begin to work on them. And they will. They
- 24:34S11: will grow. And that does happen sometimes, but but it
- 24:39S11: kind of runs contrary to what Jesus said. Jesus said,
- 24:41S11: if you want to follow me, deny or be my disciple.
- 24:44S11: Deny yourself. Take up your cross, follow me. And that's
- 24:49S11: that does not sound very attractional to me. It sounds
- 24:52S11: just the opposite.
- 24:53S12: Yeah.
- 24:54S5: Yeah, that's really good. David Nelms, our guest right now,
- 24:58S5: we want to take your questions. All questions. Discipleship. Now
- 25:02S5: we're into a season and a cycle in a year
- 25:04S5: where there's a lot of small groups starting off and
- 25:08S5: you want to move. We talk a lot around here
- 25:10S5: about moving from knowledge brokers to disciple makers. It's one
- 25:14S5: thing to share, boy, this is what I learned. This
- 25:16S5: is what I know. But disciple making brings that application
- 25:21S5: piece into high def. And you've got some questions around
- 25:25S5: disciple making. Any questions, pitch them to David Nelms 805 7898.
- 25:34S5: Call or text 805 557898. Pastors, give David a call
- 25:41S5: 805 557898.
- 25:45S1: Get to know the team behind the scenes. Follow Carl
- 25:49S1: and crew on Facebook and Instagram.
- 25:51S5: This is not a reach. We've got a discipleship expert
- 25:54S5: with us here today. Doctor David Nelms and I really
- 25:58S5: want you to get your questions in here. David is
- 26:01S5: watching it happen all around the globe. Now, the the
- 26:04S5: circumstances in the situation for a lot of the people
- 26:07S5: that he's ministering to. Uh, there's a few advantages, a
- 26:11S5: little less technology, a little less distraction, a little less materialism, and, uh,
- 26:18S5: a little bit of persecution or a whole lot, I
- 26:20S5: should say, which is interesting. We're going to take your
- 26:23S5: phone calls, 805 557898 805 557898. David, really quickly, before
- 26:32S5: we go to the phone lines here, we're getting a
- 26:34S5: call or two in. What would you say with regard
- 26:38S5: to persecution or the absence of persecution? I mean, nobody
- 26:44S5: wants persecution. In fact, we're called to live at peace
- 26:48S5: and pray for peace so that the gospel can go out.
- 26:51S5: But the absence of persecution, um, has created a situation
- 26:56S5: where a lot of people are in the church that
- 26:57S5: aren't even born again to begin with, and you can't
- 26:59S5: disciple lost people. So what do we do in a,
- 27:03S5: in the West, a pretty persecution free zone to make disciples,
- 27:07S5: because that's an added factor here, right, my man?
- 27:11S11: Yeah, I think it is. Um, you know, Carl, what
- 27:15S11: I think is we've just got to we would say
- 27:18S11: there are two essentials for a sustainable disciple making movement,
- 27:23S11: the Holy Spirit and the Holy Scriptures. And sometimes I
- 27:27S11: think we're not focused on being led by the spirit
- 27:32S11: as much as we are. Just the next new strategy
- 27:35S11: that comes along. And as far as the scriptures, boy,
- 27:39S11: there's just no, there's no, you just you've got to
- 27:42S11: teach that Bible.
- 27:44S12: Yeah.
- 27:44S11: And you've got, I mean, the Bible, it is the
- 27:47S11: Bible that builds us up and God uses it to
- 27:50S11: change us. And I think there just needs to be
- 27:53S11: a fresh, renewed emphasis on both the Holy Spirit and,
- 27:58S11: and the Holy Scriptures.
- 27:59S2: David Nelms with us right now. I want to jump
- 28:02S2: to the phone lines. Jim, thank you for holding on.
- 28:04S2: First time caller from Barrington, Illinois. What's your question on
- 28:07S2: discipleship for David Nelms?
- 28:09S13: Well, I think David just answered the question. Actually, we've
- 28:12S13: had a chance to be a part of a number
- 28:14S13: of people coming to faith recently. And I, I, we,
- 28:19S13: we're always wanting to figure out what are the things
- 28:21S13: to plug them into. And I, I just wanted to
- 28:24S13: hear from someone that's been doing it a while. Um,
- 28:27S13: what are some key things? And I, we know the
- 28:29S13: scriptures are important. I also appreciated what he just said
- 28:33S13: about paying attention to the Holy Spirit, because ultimately, that's
- 28:37S13: really who we're supposed to be listening to. And I
- 28:39S13: wanted to just try to be better at making disciples,
- 28:42S13: not just converts. And, uh, I'm glad that he said that.
- 28:46S13: I just wanted to hear kind of any other key
- 28:47S13: things that he's seen over the years.
- 28:50S5: Tremendous. That's a great caller, isn't it, David?
- 28:54S11: Yeah. And thank you so much, sir. Yeah. When it
- 28:57S11: comes to the Holy Spirit, uh, I grew up in
- 29:00S11: a church tradition where, uh, I mean, way back in
- 29:04S11: the dark ages when, you know, we used to use
- 29:07S11: hymnals and we'd sing the hymns and there were, there
- 29:10S11: was always four verses in the hymns and we'd sing
- 29:13S11: verse one, verse two, and verse four, we'd always skip
- 29:15S11: verse three.
- 29:16S2: Yes.
- 29:17S11: And I never could figure out why we skipped verse three.
- 29:20S11: Sometimes verse three was really a very good verse, but
- 29:24S11: we would skip verse three for some reason. And I
- 29:27S11: think the Holy Spirit is tends to be that way.
- 29:30S11: He's there. We we know he's there, but we just
- 29:33S11: kind of skip over him. Uh, I speak in churches
- 29:37S11: every year on Pentecost Sunday and it's rare that it's
- 29:40S11: even mentioned. Yeah. Uh, the I mean, it's like, what,
- 29:45S11: what has happened here? And so I don't think, uh,
- 29:50S11: I think we've got to, uh, Jesus said, I mean,
- 29:54S11: his very last words. Acts one eight, he said, the
- 29:57S11: Holy Spirit's going to come. Uh, in order to, to
- 30:00S11: help you be my witnesses. And the first step in
- 30:04S11: making disciples is, is witnessing evangelism. You can't grow until
- 30:08S11: you're born. You've got to be born again from how
- 30:11S11: can they call them someone they've not heard of? Somebody's
- 30:14S11: got to witness. I mean, Jesus directly connected the dots
- 30:18S11: there of the coming of the Holy Spirit with being
- 30:21S11: an effective witness. So when you ignore the Holy Spirit, uh, boy,
- 30:27S11: that's going to really that's going to really damage your
- 30:30S11: disciple making efforts. Uh, Carl, the first prayer I pray
- 30:34S11: every day, someone taught me, I pray that the Holy
- 30:37S11: Spirit would fill me, take control of me today. And
- 30:41S11: then my next prayer is, and I've shared this with
- 30:43S11: you before I pray. Somebody taught me, pray for Bob.
- 30:46S11: B o be a burden and opportunity and boldness and,
- 30:51S11: and that's, that's what we teach our, our people to do.
- 30:56S11: The the other thing I would add though, to, to
- 30:59S11: that our caller asked for any other suggestions. And that
- 31:03S11: would be to, to make sure that you understand discipleship
- 31:07S11: is best done in the context of, of, uh, it's
- 31:13S11: a relational thing, disciple making. If it's anything, it's relational.
- 31:18S11: Jesus did not say, take my course or enroll in
- 31:22S11: my class. He said, come follow me. And those disciples,
- 31:27S11: Those apostles followed him for three years, and by the
- 31:31S11: time Jesus was done with them, the rulers in Jerusalem said,
- 31:35S11: these men have been with Jesus. Yeah, I mean, they
- 31:38S11: could just tell it. And we're trying to disciple people
- 31:41S11: primarily from a pulpit or a classroom lectern. And it's
- 31:47S11: not that it can't be done that way, but I
- 31:51S11: think but Jesus actually took them under his wing. They
- 31:54S11: lived with them. They they spent hours and hours a
- 31:58S11: day with him. And, and I would say to your listeners, uh,
- 32:03S11: find a handful of people in your church. It doesn't
- 32:06S11: need to be a lot. Jesus preached to thousands, but
- 32:09S11: he focused on 12. Just find a handful and really
- 32:12S11: pour into them. Uh, Paul put it that way. In
- 32:16S11: second Timothy two two, he told Timothy to train faithful men.
- 32:21S11: Not not every stray dog that wanders wanders in, but
- 32:25S11: faithful people. That's who you want to focus on.
- 32:28S2: Doctor David Nelms, founder of the Timothy Initiative you you
- 32:32S2: touched on this, but I'm going to ask you to
- 32:34S2: expound on it a little bit. Should discipleship be a
- 32:38S2: more formalized or organic. Because I give a scenario. So
- 32:43S2: there are plenty of people who may go up to
- 32:46S2: someone who's a little bit older in church and say, hey,
- 32:49S2: can we go out to coffee so I can ask
- 32:51S2: you some questions? You know, maybe pick your brain a
- 32:53S2: little bit versus, hello, would you be willing to disciple me?
- 32:57S2: One seems approachable and hey, yeah, let's go out for coffee.
- 33:01S2: The other one feels all of a sudden this a
- 33:05S2: little bit of pressure, maybe self-imposed, but should it always
- 33:08S2: be formalized? Should we state up front this is a
- 33:11S2: discipleship relationship or let it happen more organically?
- 33:15S11: Well, I think it's both. And, uh, on the formal side, I,
- 33:20S11: we have, I think it's 14 books. We use probably
- 33:23S11: some 3000 pages that we've developed. And and I'm certainly
- 33:27S11: not opposed to that. But but definitely there's got to
- 33:31S11: be that organic. See, I, we teach our Timothys or
- 33:35S11: our Pauls, rather the Paul's trained the Timothys. We teach
- 33:38S11: them that the, the, uh, yes, there's classes. Yes, there's
- 33:42S11: stuff to learn. But but the primary discipleship disciple making
- 33:47S11: comes outside of the classroom. It's, it's, it's life on life. It's,
- 33:53S11: it's if, if you're going to go to the hospital
- 33:56S11: to visit someone, take your Timothy with you. Let them
- 34:00S11: see what you do, how you do it and what we,
- 34:04S11: we follow that old circle model of come watch me,
- 34:08S11: then come help me. Then at some point I'll help you.
- 34:12S11: Then at some point I'll watch you. And now you're
- 34:15S11: ready to go do the same thing with someone else.
- 34:18S11: So I think it's, it's both. And, uh, there's a
- 34:21S11: time and place for the, the book learning, if you will. But, boy, nothing,
- 34:26S11: nothing takes the place of just doing life with people.
- 34:30S5: A couple of thoughts. David Nelms, our guest, by the way,
- 34:32S5: we might have time to get in a question or two. 805, 55, 78, 98, 805, five, five, 78, 98. Um,
- 34:43S5: I think, um, this is powerful. When I opened up Alli, uh,
- 34:48S5: David's book, Disciples Making Disciples, this is 11 level one.
- 34:53S5: And I opened it up. I was utterly shocked and
- 34:56S5: thrilled at the same time. Your first lesson is the
- 35:00S5: Holy Spirit filled life. You call it the spirit filled life,
- 35:04S5: but it's the Holy Spirit filled life. My contention, because
- 35:08S5: you also say that without obedience, we don't make disciples.
- 35:13S5: But my concern is without proper teaching and just simple
- 35:18S5: exposition of John 14, John 15, John 16 and then
- 35:23S5: Romans eight. Probably we we put too much of the
- 35:29S5: onus on people rather than hearing the voice of the
- 35:34S5: Spirit of God who will convict and direct and even comfort. David.
- 35:40S5: How how do we reclaim the spirit filled life? You
- 35:43S5: put it front and center for all your brand new,
- 35:46S5: transformed believers.
- 35:49S11: Well, and not only is the the spirit, the Holy
- 35:52S11: Spirit filled life, chapter one, but chapter two is how
- 35:55S11: to share your story in chapter three is how to
- 35:57S11: share God's story. We believe when the spirit is controlling you,
- 36:01S11: that you can't help but tell people about Jesus. Uh,
- 36:05S11: most discipling that I've seen over the years or books,
- 36:08S11: at least there's evangelism in there. But if there's ten chapters,
- 36:12S11: it's usually chapter seven or 8 or 9. I mean,
- 36:15S11: it's kind of tucked in at the very end. I believe,
- 36:18S11: you know, Carl, you and I both preached it for years.
- 36:21S11: The only thing you can do better on earth than
- 36:23S11: in heaven is talk to lost people about Jesus. Uh,
- 36:27S11: that's why we're here. We're here to point people to
- 36:31S11: the Savior. And. And the best way to do that
- 36:35S11: is to surrender your life to the Holy Spirit. And
- 36:38S11: then to get up off your knees and begin obeying him.
- 36:42S11: I think I think one thing I would add in
- 36:44S11: there is, is, you know, we're real big on what's
- 36:47S11: called obedience based discipleship. And I think that goes back
- 36:51S11: to your earlier question. What's wrong? We somehow we've gotten
- 36:55S11: our minds as Americans that this that discipling is learning
- 36:59S11: it's knowledge. It's learning the word of God. It's being
- 37:02S11: able to quote verses and, and outline passages and, and, uh,
- 37:07S11: explain what the Bible says. But Jesus said, if you
- 37:11S11: love me, you'll keep my commandments. You'll obey me. And
- 37:14S11: we believe that if you hear the word, but do
- 37:17S11: not put it into practice, you have deceived yourself. So
- 37:21S11: what we stress to to people is yes, be filled
- 37:24S11: with the Holy Spirit. But as the Holy Spirit leads you,
- 37:26S11: get up and obey him. Get up and actually do
- 37:29S11: what he what what he's led you to do. And
- 37:31S11: of course, he's not going to lead you contrary to
- 37:33S11: the scriptures. That's why you need the scriptures, but actually
- 37:36S11: obey him. And then how do you know they're obeying him? Well,
- 37:39S11: there has to be accountability. And that's the missing piece,
- 37:43S11: in my opinion, in the way we disciple here in
- 37:46S11: the States. We we teach really good, we teach really
- 37:49S11: good stuff. And we, we kind of cross our fingers
- 37:53S11: and hope they're going to go home and do it,
- 37:55S11: but a lot don't. And so there has to be that,
- 37:59S11: that accountability, obedience based discipleship with accountability. And you mix
- 38:04S11: that with with the Holy Spirit of Almighty God controlling you.
- 38:09S11: My goodness, it's hard to beat that.
- 38:13S5: We got a text question that came in here. Ali,
- 38:15S5: do you see that one?
- 38:16S2: Yeah, this one is from an anonymous texter. They said,
- 38:19S2: how do you combat the legalism and judgementalism that seem
- 38:23S2: to so often accompany Bible focused people, churches. They said
- 38:27S2: this has turned off. Many in my world don't know
- 38:30S2: any background, but I'm going to assume the absolute best
- 38:32S2: intent here and a sincere desire to say, how do
- 38:36S2: we push back?
- 38:39S11: Well, you know, the goal, I think, in disciple making
- 38:44S11: is to be like Jesus. You know, the Antioch believers
- 38:47S11: were called Christians, Christ's people. And boy, if Jesus was anything,
- 38:52S11: he was humble. Uh, pride to me is an elitist, arrogant, uh,
- 38:59S11: prideful attitude to me is anything but. Uh, uh, evidence
- 39:05S11: is anything but a close relationship to Jesus Christ. I
- 39:08S11: think when you're under the control of the Holy Spirit. Uh,
- 39:12S11: that should take care of that. Again, I think we
- 39:14S11: equate sometimes in our churches biblical knowledge with being a
- 39:21S11: strong disciple. Satan was an angel is an angel of light.
- 39:25S11: And I think if I think if you could go
- 39:28S11: back to first century A.D. and put the Pharisees on
- 39:31S11: one side and the apostles on the other side. My
- 39:34S11: guess is those Pharisees get caught a whole lot more
- 39:37S11: scripture than the apostles. That'd be my guess. Okay, but
- 39:41S11: but it was all in the head. It was all knowledge.
- 39:44S11: And when you're when the Holy Spirit is controlling you
- 39:47S11: and the Scripture, listen, every time Jesus opened his mouth,
- 39:50S11: scripture popped out. I mean, he was just constantly quoting he,
- 39:54S11: he was he, he was consumed with the scriptures. And
- 40:00S11: when we're consumed with the scriptures and the Holy Spirit
- 40:03S11: is controlling us, we yielded to him. Uh, there's no
- 40:07S11: place or room for pride, arrogance, elitism, uh, legalism. Uh,
- 40:13S11: there's going to be a humble, uh, Kindness that you
- 40:19S11: that you will see.
- 40:20S12: Yeah.
- 40:21S5: Love this. David Nelms, our guest. And this is amazing,
- 40:26S5: amazing work that he's doing through the Timothy initiative. And
- 40:31S5: you can find a portal here. We're going to give
- 40:33S5: you a key word, but boom crew, this fighting a
- 40:39S5: information based rather than a transformation based kind of an
- 40:43S5: approach to Christianity is a worthy effort. And you don't
- 40:47S5: even do that in bitterness or judgmentalness, but in humility.
- 40:53S5: Offer that up and work with that sphere of influence
- 40:55S5: that you have around you. Uh, walk with them. Reveal
- 40:59S5: to them the power of the Holy Spirit to apply truth.
- 41:03S5: Great link we have here. Ali.
- 41:05S2: Yeah, just text disciple to 805 557898. Just text disciple.
- 41:11S2: You'll learn more about the Timothy initiative. Just text disciple
- 41:14S2: to 805 5578, 98.