Latest / Booker Scott: Truth Be Told / Senate Republican Liberty Scores are out: John Dennis talks about them

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Senate Republican Liberty Scores are out: John Dennis talks about them · Booker Scott: Truth Be Told

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Speaker 1: It's six eastern it's three o'clock pacific this is a
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Speaker 1: president of action coast to coast and around the world
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Speaker 1: from the america out loud talk radio studios.
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Speaker 2: If he says he's serious about something he means.
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Speaker 1: It it's time for the truth be told with booker scott.
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Speaker 2: Right now in the U.S. Senate, there are a lot
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Speaker 2: of questions about a lot of things, mainly the SAVE Act.
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Speaker 2: It's going to be brought for a vote, and I
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Speaker 2: would suspect that it's going to go down in flames
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Speaker 2: after sitting in the Senate for about a year and
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Speaker 2: a half. And there are other questions, too. You have
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Speaker 2: people like Rand Paul that is against what's going on
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Speaker 2: in Iran and thinks the War Powers Act should be
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Speaker 2: enacted before we do an incursion or an excursion or
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Speaker 2: a conflict, maybe even a war. Maybe you call this
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Speaker 2: a war. We also have the Senate scores from the
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Speaker 2: Liberty Caucus, the Republican Liberty Caucus. They are out. John
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Speaker 2: Dennis is here to visit with us again. He was
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Speaker 2: here a few weeks ago when we talked about the House,
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Speaker 2: and now the Senate scores are out, and looking at them,
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Speaker 2: they're nothing to be encouraged about. And John, welcome back
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Speaker 2: to the program. It's always great to have you here.
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Speaker 3: The pleasure is always mine. Thanks, Booker.
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Speaker 2: Let's get into this because, and let's start with the
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Speaker 2: highest scores in the Senate. And this year we have
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Speaker 2: Rand Paul. Last year, I believe he was over 100,
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Speaker 2: maybe 102, as I remember it. And this year he's
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Speaker 2: right at 100. He's at 99. Behind him, there is
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Speaker 2: no one. No one else is passing in the Senate.
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Speaker 2: Let's talk about Rand Paul.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I mean, the thing about the Republican Liberty
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Speaker 4: Caucus scores is we do not lobby for particular bills.
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Speaker 4: We don't give our positions prior to the vote. We
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Speaker 4: don't give a heads up to any of the senators.
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Speaker 4: We just let them do what they're going to do
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Speaker 4: and then rank them afterwards. And so if a year
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Speaker 4: were to come up where we are not in alignment
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Speaker 4: with Rand Paul for some reason, it would be reflected
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Speaker 4: in his score. But I think our values are virtually identical. And,
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Speaker 4: you know, Rand navigates some tricky waters and seems to
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Speaker 4: always come up with the right vote, at least as
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Speaker 4: far as we see it. So Rand comes in again
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Speaker 4: at a high score of 99.
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Speaker 2: Let's talk about your values, though. I think it's important
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Speaker 2: for people to understand how this is graded. And we've
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Speaker 2: talked about it before, but specifically when it comes to
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Speaker 2: the values for the Republican Liberty Caucus, you're looking for
2:41
Speaker 2: small federal government. You're not looking for wars around this world.
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Speaker 2: And I think those are the big things. And please
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Speaker 2: fill in the blanks where I have left quite a few.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I mean, if people want to learn about us,
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Speaker 4: they can go to rlc.org. We have a statement of principles.
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Speaker 4: And the underlining principle is that of the founders, that
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Speaker 4: individual liberty is the highest political value, that the goal
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Speaker 4: of government is to do one simple thing, and that
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Speaker 4: is just to protect your liberties. Liberty as opposed to freedom,
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Speaker 4: and there is a distinction. Freedom is doing what you
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Speaker 4: want to do, but liberty is a reference to the
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Speaker 4: restraint of government. And so that's what we look at.
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Speaker 4: We look at what the founders had in mind when
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Speaker 4: they wrote the document based on the ideas of the Enlightenment.
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Speaker 4: And that's what we're proposing and advocating for. And so
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Speaker 4: anything that enhances liberty, We're for and anything that opposes it,
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Speaker 4: we're against.
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Speaker 2: And Rand Paul gets that 99, which I don't know
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Speaker 2: how he lost one point because you give five points
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Speaker 2: for everything that is aligned with you politically. And there
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Speaker 2: are 20 different votes that you look at, just like
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Speaker 2: in the House. So how did Rand Paul lose that
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Speaker 2: one point?
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Speaker 4: Because there was a cloture vote to advance the NDAA,
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Speaker 4: National Defense Authorization Act. And that one, I think we
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Speaker 4: gave a smaller, a lighter.
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Speaker 3: Weight to.
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Speaker 4: And so Rand voted to advance it. I haven't discussed
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Speaker 4: it with him. We had him on in X space.
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Speaker 4: It's an incidental vote. It's around the margins. I suspect
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Speaker 4: that he voted to advance the NDAA so that they
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Speaker 4: could have a discussion on the floor. about why it
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Speaker 4: shouldn't be voted on or why he would oppose it.
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Speaker 4: But it's sort of like a thing on the margins.
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Speaker 4: It's probably a difference in terms of a strategic decision.
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Speaker 2: Let's talk about the Senate real quick in general, because
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Speaker 2: there are a couple of things coming up. You have
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Speaker 2: the SAVE Act that is going to be voted on,
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Speaker 2: and this has been there for a year and a half.
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Speaker 2: Multiple times it's been passed. The 118th Congress, the 119th
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Speaker 2: Congress has now done it a couple of times. John
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Speaker 2: Thune has never brought it for a vote. He says
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Speaker 2: he will now. We've had discussion about nuking the filibuster,
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Speaker 2: which I believe is a terrible idea, probably the worst
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Speaker 2: in American political history. I would prefer that there isn't
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Speaker 2: even such thing as cloture. I wish we would go
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Speaker 2: back 100 years, get that away, and have a talking
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Speaker 2: or standing filibuster. There was discussion about having a talking
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Speaker 2: or standing filibuster to pass the SAVE Act, and that
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Speaker 2: would get you to a point of having 60 votes,
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Speaker 2: but by the Democrats really relinquishing the debate at that
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Speaker 2: point because they lose in a filibuster. I would prefer
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Speaker 2: that it go back to those things. How do you
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Speaker 2: feel about that? Do you like cloture? Do you like
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Speaker 2: the filibuster, the way they change the rules?
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Speaker 3: You know, I haven't dug into that. I mean, I.
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Speaker 4: Have reservations about getting rid of the filibuster. It's there
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Speaker 4: for a reason.
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Speaker 3: On the one hand.
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Speaker 4: On the other hand, I think from a practical perspective,
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Speaker 4: the Democrats are going to nix the filibuster as soon
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Speaker 4: as they come in.
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Speaker 3: I think that's inevitable. And then they will pass all
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Speaker 3: sorts of Well.
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Speaker 2: That's my fear, John. I don't think any of us
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Speaker 2: know that it will happen. They had that opportunity three
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Speaker 2: years ago, and everybody says, well, they had Manchin, they
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Speaker 2: had Sinema at the time, and both of them were
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Speaker 2: against it. I don't think John Fetterman would be for it.
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Speaker 2: I think you may only need one other Democrat to
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Speaker 2: prevent them from nuking the filibuster. When you look at it,
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Speaker 2: it's the only voice that the minority party has to
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Speaker 2: prevent the majority party from doing anything they want. And
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Speaker 2: I think if you nuke the filibuster, you're giving the
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Speaker 2: Democrats exactly what they want without them having to do
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Speaker 2: it themselves, which could be a problem for them. And
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Speaker 2: you're guaranteed absolutely nothing except for everything that we don't want,
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Speaker 2: which is censored speech, mandated vaccines, everything that we didn't
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Speaker 2: want over the four years of Joe Biden, we're going
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Speaker 2: to get. And We're going to get a PAC Supreme
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Speaker 2: Court if the filibuster is nuked. But I think that's gone.
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Speaker 2: I think the conversation about nuking the filibuster is gone.
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Speaker 2: And now we come to a standing filibuster, which it
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Speaker 2: doesn't seem like Thune is going to do. There's a
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Speaker 2: lot of frustration among the American people when it comes
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Speaker 2: to the SAVE Act, because 80% of Americans, regardless of
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Speaker 2: what political party you're in, they want you to show ID.
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Speaker 2: They want you to prove that you are a citizen
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Speaker 2: before you vote in a federal election. And yet somehow
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Speaker 2: the Senate doesn't reflect that in our republic. They are
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Speaker 2: no longer representing the wishes of the people. That's the
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Speaker 2: way I see this.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with you.
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Speaker 4: And it's a weird thing because I'm in one of
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Speaker 4: those states where you don't have to show your I.D.
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Speaker 3: To vote.
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Speaker 4: And it's the oddest thing to walk into a polling
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Speaker 4: station and they just ask for your name and you
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Speaker 4: sign in a book and then they give you a
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Speaker 4: ballot and you vote. And it's just the strangest thing. So,
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Speaker 4: you know, I'm clearly in favor of voter I.D., And
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Speaker 4: it's just a question of what do we do to
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Speaker 4: the Republic? I mean, the Republic has already been weakened.
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Speaker 4: I mean, the 17th Amendment weakened it. You know, we have.
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Speaker 2: Arguably the worst amendment ever.
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Speaker 3: You know, and it's one of those under the radar ones.
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Speaker 4: I remember when I first ran against Nancy Pelosi in 2010,
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Speaker 4: I had to run in a closed primary before California
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Speaker 4: went into top two. And my opponent put out a
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Speaker 4: really vicious mail piece attacking me for wanting to repeal
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Speaker 4: the 17th Amendment. And she didn't understand what the implications were.
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Speaker 4: The Senate is supposed to represent the rights of the states.
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Speaker 4: And by going to a popular vote, they've completely dismissed
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Speaker 4: that and took away one of the legs of the
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Speaker 4: beautiful construction of the republic.
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Speaker 3: So we really should go back to that.
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Speaker 2: And for people that don't know, the 17th Amendment, It
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Speaker 2: made it a popular vote for the Senate. Before that,
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Speaker 2: it went through state legislatures. And that's how that happened.
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Speaker 4: Senators were effectively appointed through legislative vote in your state capitol.
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Speaker 4: And so they had to go politic with the various
9:40
Speaker 4: bodies in the states to be the Senate representing the
9:45
Speaker 4: interests of the state in Washington.
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Speaker 3: And the House is supposed to represent the people.
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Speaker 4: And, you know, the executive, you know, is in charge of,
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Speaker 4: you know, operating the government and making the decisions the
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Speaker 4: executive makes mostly on foreign policy. So so we we
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Speaker 4: took away the state's rights. And, you know, that's led
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Speaker 4: to a degradation in the in the republic and the
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Speaker 4: initial founding ideas of it.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. Real quick about the SAVE Act. I've mentioned this
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Speaker 2: several times on my show. I think people's expectations of
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Speaker 2: what it actually will do is a lot less than
10:22
Speaker 2: what they expect. Because when you layer state laws for
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Speaker 2: getting a driver's license or an I.D. with election laws,
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Speaker 2: there are just a few states that it will actually affect.
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Speaker 2: And those happen to be states like California, Illinois, New York,
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Speaker 2: where it's heavily registered Democrats over Republican. In some cases,
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Speaker 2: it's two to one. So there are 36 states that
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Speaker 2: require an I.D., to vote, and those states also require
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Speaker 2: birth citizenship when you get a driver's license. So when
10:55
Speaker 2: you layer those on top of each other, I think
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Speaker 2: that a lot of people believe that it's going to
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Speaker 2: do a whole lot more than it should. It's no
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Speaker 2: problem for me. I support the SAVE Act. I just
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Speaker 2: don't think that it's going to do anything for this
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Speaker 2: midterm because you're going to have about 18 states that
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Speaker 2: are going to sue, and it's going to end up
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Speaker 2: in court. Eventually, the Supreme Court will make a decision.
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Speaker 2: Who knows when that will be? Maybe prior to the
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Speaker 2: 28th election. And the decision that will come down will
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Speaker 2: be that the states that continue to allow illegals or
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Speaker 2: anyone to vote in municipality elections, they'll require that state
11:27
Speaker 2: to have a different federal election day. So that's what
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Speaker 2: the remedy will be eventually when we get to it.
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Speaker 2: And that's what will happen should the SAVE Act pass.
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Speaker 2: I don't think it passes today. in the Senate anyway.
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Speaker 2: And that's what we're here to talk about is the Senate.
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Speaker 2: Let's look at some second place finishers, second and third place.
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Speaker 2: Senator Mike Lee from Utah. He's a guy that I like.
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Speaker 2: I love the way he talks. I think he's legitimate.
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Speaker 2: He's for real. But he came in with a 65
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Speaker 2: this year. Last year, he was much higher than that.
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Speaker 2: What does that mean for Mike Lee?
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Speaker 4: Well, what it means is that when your party is
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Speaker 4: out of power, it's much easier to vote with your principles.
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Speaker 3: So you'll notice, for those.
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Speaker 4: Who have followed us over the years, if you go
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Speaker 4: back and look at our older.
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Speaker 3: Liberty scorecards, you'll notice that when we're out of.
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Speaker 4: Power, the scores are really high. But when you're in power,
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Speaker 4: there's a lot of pressure to go along with the
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Speaker 4: agenda of the executive, especially when you have a strong
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Speaker 4: figure like Donald Trump. So Mike has taken some positions
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Speaker 4: in the last year that I think he wouldn't have
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Speaker 4: in earlier years because he wants to go along with
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Speaker 4: the team, which makes Rand's score so much more impressive
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Speaker 4: because he's willing to fight for the ideals that we
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Speaker 4: hold while still being a Republican and navigating those waters
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Speaker 4: where others haven't.
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Speaker 2: I think it's a really important point that you're making
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Speaker 2: there about the score. When Donald Trump is president and
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Speaker 2: you're a Republican senator, it is likely that your score
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Speaker 2: is going to come down. You mentioned that when we
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Speaker 2: went over the House scores. Because I see a lot
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Speaker 2: of people on social media that use these Liberty scores.
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Speaker 2: I don't know if you have seen this. I've seen
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Speaker 2: it quite a bit lately, especially about Senate Majority Leader
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Speaker 2: John Thune. I think he graded a 51. And they're
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Speaker 2: using that Liberty score as if that means something really bad.
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Speaker 2: And in the case of having Donald Trump as the president,
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Speaker 2: a lower score actually could mean a good thing. Isn't
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Speaker 2: that correct? I mean, we have Rand Paul with 99.
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Speaker 2: You just explained Mike Lee at 65. And the reason
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Speaker 2: why he's 65 this year and not at 100 is
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Speaker 2: because he supported things that he normally wouldn't because he's
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Speaker 2: going along taking one for the team. Is that accurate?
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Speaker 3: That's accurate.
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Speaker 4: Uh, there's a correction of Thune was actually at 45
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Speaker 4: this year and he's been a perennially low score, um, in,
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Speaker 4: in the Liberty index.
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Speaker 1: Uh, yes.
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Speaker 4: And so, um, sure he's advancing the president's agenda and
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Speaker 4: that would be okay, except the president is sort of
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Speaker 4: has gone back on what he campaigned on, uh, in
14:21
Speaker 4: a number of circumstances, a number of areas. And so, um,
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Speaker 4: The president's agenda has moved, let's be kind and say
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Speaker 4: it's moved more towards the center. And he's taken Mike
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Speaker 4: Lee along with him.
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Speaker 2: But yet, even though he has moved more to the center,
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Speaker 2: he still can't get anything passed in the Senate or
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Speaker 2: the House when it comes to codifying anything in his agenda.
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Speaker 2: It's sort of strange, isn't it? Because if you go
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Speaker 2: back in history, I think the case could be made
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Speaker 2: that Bill Clinton moved a lot after Monica Lewinsky and
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Speaker 2: when the Republicans... took control of the house with Newt
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Speaker 2: Gingrich and they got a lot accomplished at that point.
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Speaker 2: But I think a lot of people forget that. Let's
15:04
Speaker 2: go on to Ted Cruz. He came in third.
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Speaker 3: Can I just one point on this? Yes.
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Speaker 4: I mean, if Clinton's history, if you go back to
15:12
Speaker 4: when he was governor of Arkansas, you know, he won
15:14
Speaker 4: and then he had voted out of office and it
15:16
Speaker 4: was a real, you know, dressing down and he came
15:18
Speaker 4: back and won again. And when he won in, in,
15:20
Speaker 4: in Arkansas, he actually had to work with the Republican
15:23
Speaker 4: legislature and that taught him how to do that and
15:27
Speaker 4: how to work with Republicans to, to accomplish things. And so, um,
15:31
Speaker 4: you know, after he tried to pass a national healthcare, uh,
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Speaker 4: and the country rejected it and gave the Republicans the house, uh, in, uh,
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Speaker 4: I want to say that was 97, 97.
15:42
Speaker 2: I believe.
15:43
Speaker 3: No, it was before that it was, um, 95.
15:47
Speaker 2: I want to say where they took over.
15:48
Speaker 3: Yeah.
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Speaker 4: They won it in 94 and took, took hold in 95.
15:53
Speaker 4: He found himself in a comfortable situation from when he
15:58
Speaker 4: had at least dealt with before, and that moved him
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Speaker 4: to the center. And it can be argued that the
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Speaker 4: Republicans winning the House gave Clinton the most successful presidency
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Speaker 4: that he could have.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree.
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Speaker 3: So, yes. Yeah, let's see.
16:15
Speaker 2: But drawing the parallel here with Donald Trump and making
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Speaker 2: the suggestion that he has moved to the center, it
16:21
Speaker 2: really hasn't helped him in the same way. because he's
16:24
Speaker 2: not getting the help from the Democrats is the point
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Speaker 2: I was making.
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Speaker 4: Yeah.
16:27
Speaker 3: And that's a good point.
16:28
Speaker 4: And it's also because the, the, you know, today's Democrats
16:32
Speaker 4: in the house are, have a completely different composition than
16:35
Speaker 4: the Republicans in the house had in, uh, you know, when, uh,
16:38
Speaker 4: when they won in 94 and took office in 95, right.
16:41
Speaker 4: So there's not a lot to, to compromise. The agendas
16:44
Speaker 4: are so polar that it's really difficult, but I mean,
16:47
Speaker 4: where Donald Trump has actually, you know, as, as, um,
16:51
Speaker 4: you know, gone away from his own agenda is, I mean, he,
16:54
Speaker 4: he created Doge and now they continue, they do these
16:57
Speaker 4: continuing resolutions. They're still funding all of that crazy fraud
17:01
Speaker 4: that Elon Musk exposed. Um, and, uh, you know, there
17:05
Speaker 4: are some simple things they could do to stop all that.
17:07
Speaker 4: And they, and the president hasn't, hasn't done that. And
17:11
Speaker 4: I wrote an article that we put up on our
17:12
Speaker 4: sub stack and the RLC sub stack, and it's on
17:15
Speaker 4: our website as well about, you know, the, the, um,
17:19
Speaker 4: the friction between president Trump and Rand Paul, they actually
17:24
Speaker 4: had a good relationship up until the last election cycle. And,
17:27
Speaker 4: and I was sort of in the, I want to
17:29
Speaker 4: say in the middle of it, but it's fully aware
17:31
Speaker 4: had some, some input in that situation. And Donald Trump,
17:35
Speaker 4: if you go back to listening to him and his
17:37
Speaker 4: interviews in the eighties through the nineties, all the way through,
17:40
Speaker 4: he's been very consistent. He is, his main thrust is, is,
17:47
Speaker 4: America not being taken advantage of. So his view of
17:50
Speaker 4: the presidency is an opportunity to right the wrongs of
17:55
Speaker 4: the bad deals from around the world and protecting the
17:59
Speaker 4: United States in that way. He's not so concerned with
18:02
Speaker 4: the domestic issues. And I think he's a bit of
18:06
Speaker 4: a Keynesian in that regard, where he sees the government
18:09
Speaker 4: spending as an important part of the economic equation. And
18:13
Speaker 4: And so where Senator Paul is more concerned, he has
18:18
Speaker 4: a very straightforward approach to foreign policy in terms of
18:22
Speaker 4: non-intervention and that sort of thing. But he's really concerned
18:25
Speaker 4: about the damage being done by the federal government to
18:27
Speaker 4: the nation. And that's where his focus is. So it's
18:30
Speaker 4: a shame that they're not working together at this point
18:33
Speaker 4: because they could actually benefit one another if they didn't.
18:37
Speaker 3: I think the country would be stronger.
18:39
Speaker 2: I want to talk about that international intervention coming up
18:42
Speaker 2: after the break. Before we get to the break, though,
18:44
Speaker 2: let's go to the third place finisher in this year's
18:47
Speaker 2: Liberty scores from the National Republican Liberty Caucus. And that's
18:52
Speaker 2: Ted Cruz. He came in with a 62, again, lower
18:55
Speaker 2: than it was last year. But as we have explained,
18:58
Speaker 2: as John has explained here, that's normal when you have
19:01
Speaker 2: President Donald Trump as the president. What do you see
19:03
Speaker 2: in Ted Cruz?
19:05
Speaker 4: Well, you know, Ted, I think, is a guy in
19:08
Speaker 4: conflict with himself. I mean, I think he's genuinely in his.
19:13
Speaker 4: He's a genuinely a liberty guy on the one hand.
19:15
Speaker 4: On the other hand, he's also ambitious and very and
19:20
Speaker 4: more willing to to compromise on things. I mean, just
19:23
Speaker 4: keep in mind, this is a guy in 2012 when
19:27
Speaker 4: he was running for for the Senate, you know.
19:31
Speaker 3: Fought vigorously. and practically begged Ron Paul for his endorsement.
19:35
Speaker 4: And if people understand the context of those times, Ron
19:38
Speaker 4: had a very enthusiastic following, and Ted really wanted that endorsement.
19:42
Speaker 4: In fact, in 2015, at the Republican Liberty Caucus Convention
19:46
Speaker 4: in New Hampshire, he competed again vigorously for the endorsement
19:52
Speaker 4: in our straw poll. That was a poll that was
19:55
Speaker 4: run by, that was won ultimately by Rand Paul. But
19:59
Speaker 4: Ted got his people there to get out to vote
20:01
Speaker 4: in that straw poll because he wants to be, he
20:04
Speaker 4: wanted to be seen and appreciated by our crowd. But
20:08
Speaker 4: he's just got another agenda, and he's very concerned also
20:12
Speaker 4: about foreign affairs and representing the interests of some foreign actors.
20:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there's a lot of that in our
20:21
Speaker 2: Senate and in the House of Representatives as well. You're
20:24
Speaker 2: listening to John Dennis. He is the national chair of
20:27
Speaker 2: the Republican Liberty Caucus. More of this conversation is coming up,
20:30
Speaker 2: including the low scores from the Republican side.
20:33
Speaker 3: Wake up, America, can't you see?
20:48
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20:53
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20:58
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21:01
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21:03
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21:33
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21:37
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21:49
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21:51
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21:55
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22:00
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22:48
Speaker 2: And welcome back to The Truth Be Told, and I
22:51
Speaker 2: am Booker Scott, along with John Dennis. Always great to
22:53
Speaker 2: have him educate us on what these Liberty scores are
22:57
Speaker 2: about and who is doing what, whether they're doing good
23:00
Speaker 2: or bad, what that means to you and what it
23:02
Speaker 2: should mean to the country. Let's get into some of
23:04
Speaker 2: these low scores. We have, I don't think this is
23:07
Speaker 2: any surprise, Lisa Murkowski at 30. I think she might
23:11
Speaker 2: be a little bit higher this year than she was
23:13
Speaker 2: last year, and I'm just doing from memory there. But
23:17
Speaker 2: she comes in at 30, Kevin Kramer, 32, Dan Sullivan, 30.
23:22
Speaker 2: And here's one that may be surprising to people listening,
23:24
Speaker 2: not surprising to me, is the new DHS secretary, as
23:28
Speaker 2: long as he gets confirmed, Mark Wayne Mullen from Oklahoma
23:32
Speaker 2: came in at 32.
23:32
Speaker 3: Yes, and that's discouraging.
23:38
Speaker 2: It's not surprising to me, though, John. I'm not surprised
23:41
Speaker 2: by that.
23:42
Speaker 4: No, no, not surprising. He's not been a very... strong Senator.
23:47
Speaker 4: And I have to say the, you know, Senator Lankford
23:49
Speaker 4: isn't particularly strong either.
23:50
Speaker 2: So Oklahoma, somehow they have two really bad senators. I
23:53
Speaker 2: don't understand. Yeah.
23:55
Speaker 4: And, and, and I have to go back and repeat
23:58
Speaker 4: that for those who didn't catch the, uh, the congressional
24:00
Speaker 4: version of the Liberty index that we discussed, uh, last month, um, uh,
24:04
Speaker 4: on the flip side, you have the Arizona delegation, which, uh,
24:07
Speaker 4: in the house, which is very strong. Um, yeah, I mean, these,
24:11
Speaker 4: these are folks I don't, I don't, uh, um, They
24:15
Speaker 4: are clearly not on the same page with the liberty
24:19
Speaker 4: agenda and what the role of government ought to be. And,
24:24
Speaker 4: you know, we don't do an index for the Democrats,
24:26
Speaker 4: but maybe I can.
24:29
Speaker 2: That would be interesting. I think it would be interesting.
24:31
Speaker 4: Get our team to take a look at it.
24:35
Speaker 3: The House, I think, is a big ask, but maybe
24:37
Speaker 3: we can get them to do the Senate.
24:39
Speaker 4: And I suspect that the low scorers, the Murkowskis and
24:42
Speaker 4: the Sullivans and the Mark Wayne Mullins and the Kramers,
24:46
Speaker 4: I suspect that some Democrats are going to have results.
24:50
Speaker 4: I mean, I would not be surprised if, for example,
24:52
Speaker 4: Fetterman had a higher score in our, in our index.
24:55
Speaker 4: And then, you know, we have some other folks here
24:57
Speaker 4: who are, who are low, but didn't, you know, we
24:59
Speaker 4: didn't highlight them on the front page, but you know,
25:01
Speaker 4: the perennial low score, Lindsey Graham. There's really not very
25:07
Speaker 4: much that's good about Lindsey Graham.
25:09
Speaker 3: He's, Big spender.
25:11
Speaker 4: He wants to he wants to bomb every square inch
25:13
Speaker 4: of earth. And he was bad on torture. He's just
25:17
Speaker 4: bad on everything. Even John McCain was at least good
25:20
Speaker 4: on on torture. But Lindsey Graham is is, I think,
25:25
Speaker 4: a very talented guy. And that's one of the reasons
25:28
Speaker 4: why he wins reelection. But he's he's unfortunately really misguided
25:33
Speaker 4: and a bad and a bad apple on the in
25:36
Speaker 4: the Republican Senate.
25:37
Speaker 2: Well, I think Lindsey Graham drives MAGA supporters, the base
25:41
Speaker 2: of Donald Trump. I think he drives them nuts. And
25:44
Speaker 2: for Donald Trump to endorse him, I think that drives
25:47
Speaker 2: them crazy also. And while you bring up the intervention,
25:51
Speaker 2: international wars, because I know that's something that you guys
25:54
Speaker 2: don't want to see America do. Let's get into Iran here,
25:58
Speaker 2: because I know Rand Paul was a huge person talking
26:02
Speaker 2: about the War Powers Act and that it should be
26:05
Speaker 2: enacted before we do this. Where are you from a
26:08
Speaker 2: national perspective with the Republican Liberty Caucus when it comes
26:12
Speaker 2: to Iran and what's going on there?
26:14
Speaker 4: Well, we put out a very well-received position a couple
26:20
Speaker 4: of weeks ago. And our thoughts are there are really
26:24
Speaker 4: two sides of this, two elements of it. One is
26:27
Speaker 4: the procedural side. And that is, does the president have
26:32
Speaker 4: the authority to do what he did?
26:34
Speaker 3: I mean, they can.
26:35
Speaker 4: They can call it by any name they like, but
26:38
Speaker 4: this is in fact a war. And even though there
26:42
Speaker 4: are yet to be boots on the ground, he's committed
26:45
Speaker 4: the nation to military action and there are consequences for
26:49
Speaker 4: everyone involved, which is the reason why I think the founders,
26:52
Speaker 4: and they wrote about this in the Federalist Papers, they
26:56
Speaker 4: wanted the house, the people's house, to make the decision
27:00
Speaker 4: so that we could be unified in taking on these
27:03
Speaker 4: sorts of adventures. So there's that side of it.
27:08
Speaker 2: John, let me ask you a question on that real quick.
27:10
Speaker 2: Going back to a Federalist paper and the founders, could
27:14
Speaker 2: they have envisioned the way the world has become now
27:18
Speaker 2: with hot spots here and there? And every once in
27:20
Speaker 2: a while, every president going back for 50 years has
27:24
Speaker 2: had to do one of these. Now, a couple of
27:25
Speaker 2: times it's turned into Vietnam, it's turned into Afghanistan, but
27:29
Speaker 2: a lot of times it doesn't. It's Grenada, it's things
27:33
Speaker 2: like that. So do you think they could even envision
27:36
Speaker 2: this happening, where there are these little hot spots that
27:39
Speaker 2: do mean something to American national security? Maybe sometimes it's
27:43
Speaker 2: hard to see, but they do. What do you think?
27:46
Speaker 2: Do you think they could see that?
27:47
Speaker 4: Well, I forget who said it, which one. It might
27:50
Speaker 4: have been Madison who said that the reason why they
27:52
Speaker 4: put the war power in Article I, Section 8, and
27:56
Speaker 4: gave it to the Congress was because the executive would
28:01
Speaker 4: be more likely to be seduced into taking on military adventures.
28:09
Speaker 4: And so that's the reason why they did it. I mean,
28:13
Speaker 4: there are those who even argue that the War Powers
28:17
Speaker 4: Act is constitutional, but I kind of don't want to
28:19
Speaker 4: go down that rabbit hole. We'll accept it as it is.
28:22
Speaker 4: You know, the president, in.
28:23
Speaker 3: A way, he's very aware of this, and his team
28:27
Speaker 3: is as well.
28:33
Speaker 4: In the Venezuela situation when they went and kidnapped Maduro,
28:37
Speaker 4: they actually said that this.
28:40
Speaker 3: Is not a war and it's not a military action.
28:43
Speaker 3: They called it law enforcement.
28:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, police action.
28:46
Speaker 3: A police action.
28:47
Speaker 4: So they actually were, in a weird way, being deferential.
28:51
Speaker 4: They recognized the limits, which is, I suppose, a good thing.
28:54
Speaker 4: But the Iran attack is completely out of bounds. If
29:01
Speaker 4: you look at the War Powers Act, Um, the War
29:04
Speaker 4: Powers Act just reiterates Article 1, Section 8 in its
29:07
Speaker 4: first point. There are three points, uh, uh, situations under
29:10
Speaker 4: which the president can go to war. One is, uh,
29:13
Speaker 4: with authorization from Congress.
29:14
Speaker 3: Okay. The Constitution already covered that. Two, um, another type
29:18
Speaker 3: of authorization from, from.
29:20
Speaker 4: Congress, like they did with the AUMF back in, um, uh,
29:24
Speaker 4: back in 2001, 2002, 2001. Uh, and then, um, And
29:31
Speaker 4: then the third is when there's an imminent threat against
29:35
Speaker 4: America or its interests. And so the Iran action didn't come.
29:40
Speaker 3: That.
29:40
Speaker 4: Now, they've been backpedaling and trying to fit that in,
29:42
Speaker 4: but the messaging has been at best chaotic and very
29:48
Speaker 4: confusing under the administration. What was the reason why we
29:51
Speaker 4: did that? I mean, Marco Rubio said that we went
29:55
Speaker 4: into Iran because Israel was going to do it anyway,
29:57
Speaker 4: so we might as well you know, go in there
30:00
Speaker 4: with them and protect our interests because it would automatically
30:02
Speaker 4: trigger attacks on us. Um, you know, Iran and, and, uh, Israel,
30:07
Speaker 4: apparently that's not the first time they've, they've, um, they've
30:11
Speaker 4: used that, um, that, uh, positioning it.
30:14
Speaker 3: This is the first time they've succeeded with it.
30:16
Speaker 2: So, um, so, uh, could the argument be made that
30:21
Speaker 2: it is an imminent threat because for 47 years, over
30:26
Speaker 2: a thousand Americans have been killed It continues today by Iran.
30:31
Speaker 2: So is that not an imminent threat? Because it has
30:34
Speaker 2: been for 47 years. Could that argument not be made
30:37
Speaker 2: that every president along the way should have done what
30:39
Speaker 2: Donald Trump has done?
30:41
Speaker 3: Well, the argument can be made. It has been made.
30:43
Speaker 3: I don't know how convincing it is, though. I mean,
30:45
Speaker 3: I've tried to steal.
30:46
Speaker 2: A man of myself, and I just don't see it. Well,
30:49
Speaker 2: what about this? It's not terribly persuasive. No, you're not
30:53
Speaker 2: persuaded by that. How do you go to Congress and say, okay,
30:57
Speaker 2: here's what we're going to do? Because someone in Congress,
31:00
Speaker 2: as boneheaded as they are, they're going to leak it
31:03
Speaker 2: to the press, and whoever you're going to go invade
31:06
Speaker 2: or drop a bomb on is going to know it
31:08
Speaker 2: before you do it.
31:10
Speaker 3: Well, but that's the president's job. That's what he's supposed
31:14
Speaker 3: to do.
31:14
Speaker 4: Look, I mean, he's not just putting American servicemen in jeopardy,
31:23
Speaker 4: which is a big enough responsibility.
31:26
Speaker 3: But we just had a.
31:27
Speaker 4: Situation where 20 million people came across our border unvetted.
31:32
Speaker 4: I mean, who knows what, what, who's at threat here
31:35
Speaker 4: in this country would have been in other areas around
31:38
Speaker 4: the world.
31:40
Speaker 2: We're seeing it already.
31:43
Speaker 4: And, and so that's the reason why it should be open.
31:46
Speaker 3: I mean, make these arguments before you do it in
31:50
Speaker 3: the house. That is the role of the, of the president.
31:52
Speaker 3: That's what his responsibility is.
31:55
Speaker 4: And, Iran can't stop us from bombing them anyway. So
32:01
Speaker 4: so go have that. Don't just do it in private
32:04
Speaker 4: with with the House. Let's have a public discussion. It's
32:07
Speaker 4: the nation that needs to be behind this. These kinds
32:11
Speaker 4: of actions, because we're all in jeopardy when someone takes
32:14
Speaker 4: them and to take them without is not only not
32:18
Speaker 4: it's it's it's it. is a dereliction of duty to
32:23
Speaker 4: the oath sworn to the Constitution. But practically, it's also
32:26
Speaker 4: very dangerous. And that's the reason why the founders wrote
32:29
Speaker 4: the Constitution the way they did.
32:31
Speaker 2: Well, I'll accept your answer there. Let's move on. Let's
32:34
Speaker 2: get back to the scores. We talked about the low scores.
32:36
Speaker 2: What about those in the middle? What are some names
32:39
Speaker 2: that would surprise some people? Maybe they think they're higher
32:42
Speaker 2: than what they are. They're sitting there at 45, 50, 55,
32:46
Speaker 2: somewhere in that ballpark. Someone like Tom Cotton.
32:50
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
32:50
Speaker 4: That's the point I was thinking about. I mean, he's
32:52
Speaker 4: a higher profile guy. He seems like he's a very,
32:54
Speaker 4: very serious guy and a vocal defender of the U.S.
33:02
Speaker 3: He was a vocal defender of the president.
33:04
Speaker 4: But year in, year out, he has had low scores.
33:07
Speaker 4: He's in that bottom tier at 40 out of 100,
33:11
Speaker 4: you know, a disappointment. Another one that stands out, too,
33:17
Speaker 4: is as entertaining as he is, he's a law professor,
33:23
Speaker 4: but his voting always disappoints. That's John Kennedy out of Louisiana.
33:27
Speaker 2: I remember him last year when we did this. Last year,
33:30
Speaker 2: he was low as well.
33:32
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's out of 50, and he's a fun guy,
33:36
Speaker 4: and he's super interesting to watch when he's doing his–
33:41
Speaker 4: his interrogations and his various committees. Uh, but, um, but
33:46
Speaker 4: ultimately he's, um, he's not, uh, you know, not a
33:49
Speaker 4: strong defender of Liberty. Another one who went down a
33:52
Speaker 4: bit this year and as, as a guy, Senator Paul
33:54
Speaker 4: told me personally, he can work with on some issues
33:57
Speaker 4: is Rick Scott.
33:58
Speaker 3: Rick Scott came.
33:59
Speaker 4: In at a 52 and Rick kind of gets it,
34:03
Speaker 4: you know, he, uh, but again, he, I think he's,
34:06
Speaker 4: he does the team player thing. And I suspect that
34:08
Speaker 4: some of his votes he does with a, with a
34:12
Speaker 4: bitten lip.
34:13
Speaker 2: Well, Rick Scott is one that I wanted to be
34:15
Speaker 2: the majority leader when they had that vote. It was
34:19
Speaker 2: between John Cornyn, John Thune, and Rick Scott. And I
34:23
Speaker 2: thought that if Cornyn or Thune, either one of them,
34:26
Speaker 2: that would be a terrible thing for America because nothing
34:29
Speaker 2: was going to be accomplished. With John Thune, I don't
34:32
Speaker 2: think anything has been accomplished at this point. As we
34:35
Speaker 2: look forward in coming up in this year, I think
34:38
Speaker 2: it's going to be very important for the House and
34:40
Speaker 2: the Senate to pass another reconciliation. And it has to
34:44
Speaker 2: get done before September 30th, before the government would shut down.
34:49
Speaker 2: And then you give leverage back to the Democrats. There
34:51
Speaker 2: would need to be another continuing resolution. So I think
34:54
Speaker 2: it's so important for the Republicans right now to have
34:57
Speaker 2: all 12 appropriations done by the time that they're supposed
35:00
Speaker 2: to have it done. before the midterm, which would happen,
35:04
Speaker 2: you know, five or six weeks later, you don't need
35:06
Speaker 2: a government shutdown or passing all the leverage off to
35:08
Speaker 2: the Democrats before the midterm.
35:11
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good point.
35:12
Speaker 4: And, you know, it's funny, there's a great clip that
35:13
Speaker 4: floats around social media with Thomas Massey talking about calling
35:17
Speaker 4: a theater that every year they do this and they, they,
35:20
Speaker 4: they do the one in the early, early in the year,
35:22
Speaker 4: and then they have to do a continuing resolution in
35:25
Speaker 4: the you know, in, in September and, And all they
35:29
Speaker 4: do is they continue the spending that agendas that were
35:32
Speaker 4: set by previous administrations.
35:34
Speaker 3: And it's really discouraging.
35:35
Speaker 4: Now, I will say that, you know, federal hiring is down.
35:38
Speaker 4: The size of the federal workforce is quite a bit
35:42
Speaker 4: lower than it has been in the past.
35:43
Speaker 3: So I'll give credit to the president. But, you know,
35:46
Speaker 3: what he could do.
35:47
Speaker 4: Is he could reset the direction of spending for for
35:51
Speaker 4: the House and Washington that's addicted to these continuing resolutions
35:55
Speaker 4: by actually passing a real budget. That sets the agenda
36:01
Speaker 4: moving forward.
36:04
Speaker 2: I think this year is the time to do it
36:05
Speaker 2: for the 27th fiscal year.
36:09
Speaker 4: This is the only opportunity because I'm not entirely convinced
36:14
Speaker 4: that the Republicans will lose the House this year, but
36:18
Speaker 4: it's probably likely.
36:20
Speaker 3: I think the Iran.
36:21
Speaker 4: Thing is not going to help the president. That turns inevitably,
36:26
Speaker 4: I think, into a quagmire. But let's assume that the
36:30
Speaker 4: Democrats are going to take the House.
36:33
Speaker 3: Then the opportunity to set.
36:35
Speaker 4: The agenda is really now, and we may not see
36:39
Speaker 4: it again.
36:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree 100% on that. Let's go back to
36:43
Speaker 2: something you brought up earlier in this conversation. You talked
36:46
Speaker 2: about Doge and the fact that really there hasn't been
36:50
Speaker 2: anything that happened to I think totally it was $ 9. 2
36:54
Speaker 2: billion in a rescission that was done. And Kevin Hazlett
36:58
Speaker 2: said at that time, we're going to do many of these.
37:01
Speaker 2: And there hasn't been one more since that time. That
37:05
Speaker 2: was last May or June when they passed that rescission.
37:08
Speaker 2: Rescission only takes 51 votes. And I keep thinking about
37:11
Speaker 2: that as people talk about nuking the filibuster to pass
37:14
Speaker 2: the SAVE Act. I don't even know if you'd have
37:15
Speaker 2: enough votes nuking the filibuster to pass the SAVE Act.
37:19
Speaker 2: You can't even get any more rescissions coming from the
37:22
Speaker 2: White House right now because a memo has to come
37:24
Speaker 2: from the White House that starts a 45-day clock to
37:26
Speaker 2: both chambers in Congress to do a rescission, which is
37:30
Speaker 2: allowed under the 1974 Impoundment Act. I've been really disappointed
37:34
Speaker 2: in that. That's another way to claw back that money
37:36
Speaker 2: that has been appropriated but hasn't been spent yet, and
37:39
Speaker 2: so far all we did was defund PBS and NPR.
37:43
Speaker 3: Yeah.
37:44
Speaker 4: And those are, those are just, uh, you know, uh,
37:45
Speaker 4: you know, publicity grabbers, but, um, they're not really, um, substantive. And, um,
37:51
Speaker 4: and speaking of substance, I mean, um, you know, the,
37:54
Speaker 4: the executive, uh, orders that come from the president or
37:57
Speaker 4: junk food, the, the, the real, the real meat and
38:00
Speaker 4: potatoes are in, uh, you know, passing, uh, budgets that, uh,
38:03
Speaker 4: that makes sense. You know, Senator Paul, we had him
38:06
Speaker 4: on that X space, uh, earlier this week. And, um,
38:10
Speaker 4: we highlighted that his he, he originally came out with
38:14
Speaker 4: what was called a penny plan. I want to say
38:16
Speaker 4: about eight years ago. And if they had cut 1%
38:19
Speaker 4: in spending, I remember that it would have been a
38:22
Speaker 4: balanced budget within five years. Now, in order to achieve
38:24
Speaker 4: that same thing, you have to cut six pennies, six
38:27
Speaker 4: cents out of the federal budget every year. And he
38:31
Speaker 4: couldn't get the votes for that. So you know, We
38:35
Speaker 4: can say everything we want about the Democrats, but we
38:38
Speaker 4: understand where they're coming from and what they want to accomplish.
38:41
Speaker 4: It's really the folks that are holding us back, I'm
38:44
Speaker 4: sorry to say, are our own party. When he can
38:47
Speaker 4: only get 28 votes, for example, for his six penny plan,
38:52
Speaker 4: that's disappointing to say the least.
38:56
Speaker 3: And we can talk about the.
38:58
Speaker 4: Threats from foreign actors as much as we like. The
39:01
Speaker 4: real threat to the republic is the 38 going on 39,
39:05
Speaker 4: soon to be $ 40 trillion in federal debt. Debt service
39:10
Speaker 4: to the federal debt now is now the third largest
39:12
Speaker 4: budget item.
39:13
Speaker 3: It's going to be number two very shortly. And that
39:17
Speaker 3: threatens the republic.
39:18
Speaker 4: And the fact that we can't get Republicans to behave
39:20
Speaker 4: responsibly is really dispiriting.
39:22
Speaker 2: Well, I know you're going to spend some time with
39:25
Speaker 2: Rand Paul soon. Maybe you should tell him that it's
39:27
Speaker 2: too late to do the penny thing because the federal
39:29
Speaker 2: government has done away with the pennies he's going to
39:32
Speaker 2: have to go to a dime or a nickel or
39:33
Speaker 2: something because no more pennies anymore which.
39:37
Speaker 3: He went to six he went to six cents.
39:39
Speaker 2: You still need a penny to make six cents he's
39:41
Speaker 2: going to have to go to a.
39:42
Speaker 4: Dime yeah no i mean i get it i mean
39:44
Speaker 4: i he He's discouraged too, but he's just doing his job.
39:49
Speaker 4: One thing I did want to mention, even though the
39:51
Speaker 4: federal workforce is at its lowest level in, I forget
39:56
Speaker 4: what the number is, it's at least 50 years.
39:59
Speaker 3: It's low, but we still see the same level of spending.
40:03
Speaker 4: And the spending, I want to just, if there's anything
40:05
Speaker 4: that anyone takes away from this discussion today, just always remember,
40:09
Speaker 4: it's the spending that matters. You know, years ago, I
40:12
Speaker 4: talked to, I was a friendly with Grover Norquist. People
40:16
Speaker 4: don't talk much about the Americans for tax reform, but
40:19
Speaker 4: at one point they were very, very potent because they'd
40:22
Speaker 4: get every Republican to sign a pledge that they won't
40:24
Speaker 4: increase taxes.
40:25
Speaker 3: There'll be no net increase in taxes.
40:27
Speaker 4: And in a private conversation with Grover, I said, I'm
40:29
Speaker 4: grateful for what you do, but I got to say,
40:32
Speaker 4: it almost doesn't matter as long as the Federal Reserve
40:34
Speaker 4: can continue to create money out of thin air and
40:37
Speaker 4: base the currency. And in fact, at this point, why
40:41
Speaker 4: don't we just get rid of the the income tax,
40:43
Speaker 4: all levels of taxation, and let the Fed pay for
40:45
Speaker 4: everything if that's how we're going.
40:46
Speaker 3: To go about doing this.
40:47
Speaker 2: Right, right. Why take from the people? If you can
40:49
Speaker 2: just print it, print it. What does it matter?
40:51
Speaker 4: Not only that, you violate your constitutional amendments every time
40:54
Speaker 4: you sign a tax return.
40:55
Speaker 3: Yeah. Right?
40:56
Speaker 2: I think it's clear. I think it's clear at this point.
40:59
Speaker 2: People say we have two wings, one bird. I think
41:03
Speaker 2: that bird's flying over the American people and taking a
41:05
Speaker 2: big poop on them. That's the way I see it.
41:08
Speaker 4: Yeah, the late, great Butler Schaefer said that they're a,
41:12
Speaker 4: Two wings, the Democrats and Republicans, two wings of the
41:15
Speaker 4: same bird of prey.
41:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're pooping on us. That's what's happening. That
41:19
Speaker 2: bird is flying over us and pooping on us. John Dennis,
41:23
Speaker 2: thank you so much for joining us again with the
41:25
Speaker 2: Senate scores for the Liberty Caucus. He is the national
41:28
Speaker 2: chair of the Republican Liberty Caucus. His name is John Dennis. John,
41:32
Speaker 2: tell everybody where they can go find the Republican Liberty Caucus.
41:36
Speaker 4: You can find us at rlc.org and on X at rlibertycaucus.org.
41:41
Speaker 2: Thank you, John. I appreciate you.
41:42
Speaker 3: Pleasure is always mine. Thanks, Booker.
41:45
Speaker 1: There is only one truth. You've been listening to The
41:48
Speaker 1: Truth Be Told with Booker Scott on America Out Loud.