Latest / Paging America / Spotlight on Data: Why Americans Are Demanding Action on Health Costs

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Spotlight on Data: Why Americans Are Demanding Action on Health Costs · Paging America

• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Paging America,
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: where we explore the power,
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: profit,
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  SPEAKER_01: and politics shaping American healthcare and what you can do about.
• 0:22
  I'm your host,
• 0:23
  Dr.
• 0:23
  Rob Davidson,
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  and we're here with a special episode today.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: My guest here today is Sophia Tripoli,
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  SPEAKER_01: Senior Director for Policy at Families USA,
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  SPEAKER_01: and here to talk about their late September poll on the crushing cost of
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: healthcare.
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  Sophia AAA is a strategic and innovative health policy thought
• 0:38
  leader and oversees
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  and leads Family USA's strategic development and framework on
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  all aspects of its
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  SPEAKER_01: health policy priorities,
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  including guidance on federal and state health policy that will
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  improve health care
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  SPEAKER_01: and health for all families and individuals in America.
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  SPEAKER_01: Prior to this role,
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  Tripoli led Family USA's work on value initiatives that focus
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  on reorienting the
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  SPEAKER_01: healthcare system to deliver health,
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  SPEAKER_01: lowering healthcare costs,
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  and on forwarding consumer-focused policy agendas to improve
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  healthcare delivery
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  SPEAKER_01: and payment systems.
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  SPEAKER_01: Sophia, thanks so much.
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  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Paging America.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, welcome.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
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  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited to be here.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_01: So I know a lot about Families USA.
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  SPEAKER_01: I know with the Committee of Protected Health Care,
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  we've worked on things together and a lot of people may who are
• 1:16
  listening,
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  SPEAKER_01: but some people may not.
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  So I don't know if you can just tell us a little bit about what
• 1:20
  you guys do there
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  SPEAKER_01: at Families USA for folks listening.
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  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
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  SPEAKER_00: Happy to.
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  So for folks who don't know,
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  Families USA is a leading national voice for health care
• 1:28
  consumers.
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  SPEAKER_00: And our mission is to really make sure that every person living in
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  SPEAKER_00: in this country has access to the high quality,
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  SPEAKER_00: affordable health care and the health that they deserve.
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  We have been around for over 40 years and we work at the
• 1:42
  national state and
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  SPEAKER_00: sometimes at the local level as well.
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  SPEAKER_00: And we do everything from public policy analysis.
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  SPEAKER_00: We do advocacy.
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  We build coalitions and we essentially figure out how do we
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  take a really good
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  pro-consumer policy idea or reform and move it through the
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  political process to
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  make sure that everybody in this country has the care they need
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  and the health that
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  SPEAKER_00: they deserve.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you guys are awesome partners and a powerhouse in this space.
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  SPEAKER_01: And people just Google you.
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  SPEAKER_01: They're going to see you testifying before congressional hearings.
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  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, so just like everything there.
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  SPEAKER_01: Well,
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  SPEAKER_01: you're here today because in late September,
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  SPEAKER_01: prior to the start of the shutdown,
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  SPEAKER_01: your group conducted a poll about the cost of health care.
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  SPEAKER_01: I wonder if you could just broadly tell us what you guys found.
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
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  I'm excited to talk about this because it's such an important
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  moment for this poll.
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  SPEAKER_00: And there were a few other polls that came out around the same time.
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  SPEAKER_00: And the poll really tells us a few things.
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  First,
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  it says it finds that health care costs are a top priority for
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  American voters,
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  43% of voters said that lowering health care costs is the most
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  important issue for
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  SPEAKER_00: them,
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  SPEAKER_00: surpassing the issue of housing costs,
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  SPEAKER_00: jobs,
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  SPEAKER_00: immigration crime,
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  that American voters are really saying that health care costs
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  are their top issue.
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  SPEAKER_00: And the second thing was that 91%.
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  SPEAKER_00: which is a very,
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  SPEAKER_00: very high percentage,
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  felt that it was really important for Congress and the
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  president to lower health
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  care costs right now and that most of them citing the fact that
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  they need immediate
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  relief to reduce the stress on their family budgets and bring
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  down the cost of
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  SPEAKER_00: living.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that's very notable.
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  SPEAKER_00: Obviously,
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  we're in this moment where there's a lot of debate about is
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  health care costs even
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  SPEAKER_00: the thing to be fighting about?
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  SPEAKER_00: And I think we hear in this poll,
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  SPEAKER_00: as many of the other polls are released around the same time,
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  SPEAKER_00: that,
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  SPEAKER_00: yes,
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  SPEAKER_00: in fact,
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  SPEAKER_00: voters want health care costs addressed.
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  The third thing that we found in this poll was that there's
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  just such bipartisan
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  support for these really common sense health care reforms that
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  put money back in
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  people's pockets and address the root drivers of why health
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  care costs are going
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  SPEAKER_00: up.
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  This deep frustration from voters around the way that this
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  feeling that the system
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  SPEAKER_00: is really rigged,
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  SPEAKER_00: that the health care system is really rigged against them,
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  SPEAKER_00: that you've got these corporate health systems.
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  whether it's big insurance companies or drug companies or
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  middlemen like pharmacy
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  benefit managers or corporate sort of hospital systems that are
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  all part of the
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  SPEAKER_00: system that are charging these excessive health care prices.
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  And the policy solutions that the voters support across the
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  political spectrum
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  tackle some of those root drivers around each of those actors
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  and their role in
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  SPEAKER_00: driving excessive health care prices in the health care system.
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  And so it's a really almost no opposition on some of these
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  policy solutions.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so I think those are just very notable.
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  SPEAKER_00: I would say the last thing I'll say is that this appetite,
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  SPEAKER_00: and I think that shows that there's an appetite,
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  SPEAKER_00: a big appetite from voters for big reform,
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  SPEAKER_00: not just tinkering around the edges,
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  but some really more blunt forces to get in there and lower
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  health care costs and
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  SPEAKER_00: make the health care system work better for everyone.
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  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's great.
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  SPEAKER_01: And I did notice,
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  SPEAKER_01: like,
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  SPEAKER_01: and you looked at,
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  SPEAKER_01: like,
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  SPEAKER_01: how people define themselves about,
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  SPEAKER_01: I think,
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  SPEAKER_01: what,
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  SPEAKER_01: 12% called themselves independent,
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  SPEAKER_01: and then sort of Republican or conservative,
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  SPEAKER_01: slightly more,
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  but pretty evenly distributed between that and then sort of
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  more liberal or
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  SPEAKER_01: Democratic.
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  SPEAKER_01: So, and then, yeah, to get 91% on anything right now.
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  SPEAKER_01: seems almost impossible.
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  SPEAKER_01: Like, like, I don't know if maybe you can speak more to that.
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  SPEAKER_01: Like, like, what does that mean?
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  SPEAKER_01: I guess for the moment,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  as far as we're looking at shutdown and healthcare is a big
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  part of that is,
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  SPEAKER_01: does that play?
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  SPEAKER_01: Like, is that a strong, a strong hand for Dems?
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  I mean,
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  maybe I'm a leading question,
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  but I don't know if you could talk about that.
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  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
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  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think, you know, I saw a couple of things.
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  SPEAKER_00: I think first and foremost,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: as this poll found,
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  SPEAKER_00: health care costs is a top issue for voters.
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  SPEAKER_00: Everybody needs relief.
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  SPEAKER_00: And they're saying that in overwhelming majorities.
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  SPEAKER_00: And this poll shows that
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  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not just progressive Democrats.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: folks across the political spectrum,
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  progressive Democrats to MAGA Republicans who are just saying
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  in this poll and many
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  SPEAKER_00: others that we need health care costs addressed.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so I think obviously in the larger debate right now,
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  SPEAKER_00: governments shut down,
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  SPEAKER_00: longest government shutdown largely in history,
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  SPEAKER_00: in American history,
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  largely over this fight around do we extend these enhanced
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  premium tax credits or
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  SPEAKER_00: not?
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  And I think the short answer is the American people are telling
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  us they want that
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  SPEAKER_00: they need the relief.
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  SPEAKER_00: They're desperate for it.
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  And so I do think that this poll sort of validates that,
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  yes,
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  health care costs is the issue.
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  SPEAKER_00: Now,
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  SPEAKER_00: the premium tax credits,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  a lot of the opposition to that is that there's a feeling that
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  it's a Band-Aid
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  SPEAKER_00: solution.
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  SPEAKER_00: And it does,
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  SPEAKER_00: in fact,
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  SPEAKER_00: provide immediate relief to consumers right now,
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  SPEAKER_00: which is what we need to do.
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  SPEAKER_00: So it's like anytime there's a bleeding,
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  SPEAKER_00: right,
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  you put a bandaid on and you stop the bleeding and then you've
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  got to step back and
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  SPEAKER_00: figure out,
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  SPEAKER_00: how do we address the root problem?
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  And I think that's what Democrats and Republicans have to do is
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  get to the
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  SPEAKER_00: solution,
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  SPEAKER_00: get to a deal on premium tax credits,
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  SPEAKER_00: get folks that immediate relief,
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  SPEAKER_00: reopen the government,
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  SPEAKER_00: get folks back to work.
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  And then we have to get to work to figure out how do we
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  actually address these root
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  drivers of what drives up our health care costs year after year
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  with no really
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  SPEAKER_00: accountability.
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  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
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  I want to get at this next thing,
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  trying not to sound biased at all in the way I ask it.
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  SPEAKER_01: So the Trump administration,
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  they're saying there will be lower premiums and more health
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  care plans for
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  SPEAKER_01: Affordable Care Act enrollees next year compared to before the pandemic.
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  SPEAKER_01: So, like, what's the reality?
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  And are these low-cost plans really less expensive if people
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  actually get sick or get injured?
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  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I think,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  a lot of what the Trump administration is touting there are
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  these sort of short
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  SPEAKER_00: term limited duration plans or what we often refer to as junk plans.
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  They're marketed as lower costs because they don't offer as
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  comprehensive benefits.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so it's a little bit of a bait and switch, right?
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  SPEAKER_00: You're trying to tell consumers who are struggling right now with a broad
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  SPEAKER_00: affordability and economic crisis,
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  SPEAKER_00: health care costs consuming more and more of their budgets,
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  SPEAKER_00: premiums going up.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so it's
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  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's a lower cost health care plan.
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  SPEAKER_00: But once you're in that plan,
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  these plans are not subject to the same federal requirements as
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  many other plans
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  SPEAKER_00: are in the market.
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  And so they don't offer the baseline basic comprehensive
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  coverage that you need.
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  A lot of them don't have coverage for drugs,
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  mental health services,
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  behavioral health services.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so once a consumer is in these plans,
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  SPEAKER_00: you might be paying lower costs,
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  SPEAKER_00: but you're getting less for that.
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  SPEAKER_00: So you're just one,
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  SPEAKER_00: you're still in a situation where you're one emergency away from medical
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  SPEAKER_00: bankruptcy,
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  SPEAKER_00: right?
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  SPEAKER_00: That you can't,
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  you get that huge bill and you can't afford it because that
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  plan doesn't actually
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  SPEAKER_00: provide you the insurance coverage that you thought that you had,
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  SPEAKER_00: even though it might be alluring at a lower cost price.
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  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's a bit of a confusing message from President Trump and the
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  SPEAKER_00: administration because these plans are not comprehensive,
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  SPEAKER_00: even though they're marketed as lower costs.
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  And I think they've even been pushing like some bronze plans on
• 8:22
  the marketplace
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  SPEAKER_01: that,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: have premiums that are definitely lower than,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: some of those silver ones are the ones that are,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: doubling or going up by such a high percent.
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  SPEAKER_01: But the deductibles are, you know, $10,000, $12,000.
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  SPEAKER_01: I know even my wife has a person she works with,
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  SPEAKER_01: an MA who,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
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  SPEAKER_01: they have employer-sponsored insurance,
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  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: but it's high deductible plans.
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  SPEAKER_01: And when they had an injury that required surgery,
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  SPEAKER_01: they had to take a job waiting tables on weekends.
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  to pay for the deductible that was associated with getting that
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  actual care do you
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  see i mean is that what you're seeing as well them kind of
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  pushing some of these as
• 8:56
  well trying to highlight look at how cheap this is and then
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  boom you know what you
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  have may uh you know may satisfy the requirements of the ACA as
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  far as the
• 9:05
  comprehensive care all that but man those deductibles i don't
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  know how someone you
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  SPEAKER_01: know making the median income could even think about covering those
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, absolutely.
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  SPEAKER_00: I think,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  I was just doing a presentation earlier this week where I was
• 9:16
  showing some data
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  SPEAKER_00: around that for workers and for employers that the cost of deductibles,
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  SPEAKER_00: the rising cost of deductibles and premiums,
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  SPEAKER_00: just absolutely astronomical,
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  SPEAKER_00: increasing year after year and increasing much faster than wages,
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  SPEAKER_00: right?
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  SPEAKER_00: Like those increases are much faster than workers' wages.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so you're highlighting exactly the pressure point, right?
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  SPEAKER_00: You've got these
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  SPEAKER_00: More and more folks can't afford insurance.
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  They're taking the lower premiums,
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  but the tradeoff is you get a higher deductible plan often.
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  SPEAKER_00: And so,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: you might have a bit more comprehensive coverage,
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: but before that kicks in,
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  SPEAKER_00: you've got to pay $5,000,
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: $10,000,
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: even a catastrophic plan level deductible.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it is not actually the affordable quality care that consumers need,
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  SPEAKER_00: and it doesn't actually provide that
• 10:02
  uh direct relief that consumers are are are begging congress um
• 10:06
  and the president
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  to to act on yeah and i saw mike johnson recently arguing well
• 10:11
  we have plans we
• 10:12
  have plans and he held out these papers saying you know we have
• 10:14
  these these i don't
• 10:15
  know what he called them they look like pamphlets but but a lot
• 10:18
  of what i've seen
• 10:19
  from what they've come up with as their plans involve like
• 10:22
  doubling uh health
• 10:23
  savings accounts you know uh that people could put more money
• 10:26
  in pre-tax and you
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: look at that and you're like well that's
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: Great for high income earners,
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: but like folks like my,
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: my wife's colleague,
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: I may make 20 bucks an hour.
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  They're not,
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  even if they can sock any money in there,
• 10:38
  they're in a lower tax bracket.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a big advantage as is for,
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: someone making,
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: half a million dollars a year.
• 10:44
  And most of the time,
• 10:46
  you know,
• 10:46
  you're just getting by paycheck to paycheck.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: You're not socking money away.
• 10:50
  So that benefit is,
• 10:52
  you know,
• 10:52
  for a very small percent of the folks out there.
• 10:56
  It's really frustrating to see them really lean into that to
• 10:59
  sound like some kind
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: of reasonable way to lower costs.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: It just just doesn't apply to regular people, it seems.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's right.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I think,
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: right now,
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: open enrollment is upon us and folks are getting,
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: have no predictability.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: They're getting their notices that their insurance rates are going up.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: They can't quite tell.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: Is it going to change?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: Am I locked in today?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Is it what it's going to be when open enrollment closes?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: There's so much uncertainty in the market right now.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: And we know that at the same time,
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: right,
• 11:30
  like we need those premium tax credits so folks know that
• 11:33
  there's that guarantee of
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: an affordable,
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: a more affordable premium at the same time,
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: you know.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: None of that,
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: none of this,
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: none of the conversation right now is like,
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: what's happening underneath the hood?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Why are premiums going up so much year after year for employer,
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: people who rely on employer-sponsored insurance for their health care?
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the same sort of in the ACA.
• 11:55
  And it's these underlying drivers around drug prices,
• 11:58
  around,
• 11:59
  you know,
• 11:59
  the high,
• 12:00
  you know,
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: a lot of consolidation among healthcare industry,
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: particularly among hospitals,
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: that's just leading to these excessive healthcare prices.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: And those prices drive up the premiums, right?
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think,
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: the fact that people are getting,
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: once someone can afford,
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: gets their insurance,
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: but you don't have the,
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: the,
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: the benefits package that you want,
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: that you still have these high deductible plans,
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: you still have these out-of-pocket costs,
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: right,
• 12:23
  that you can be paying for insurance and still not be able to
• 12:25
  afford your care is
• 12:26
  just another sign of how broken the system is and why it's so
• 12:30
  important for
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: Democrats and Republicans to get to the deal in the PTCs,
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: get the government back open,
• 12:36
  and then come to the table on how are we actually going to
• 12:39
  address the root drivers
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: of what's making health care
• 12:42
  so unaffordable and so difficult to navigate for consumers and
• 12:45
  deliver on some real
• 12:46
  meaningful reforms for the american people yeah yeah hey i
• 12:49
  don't mind i wonder if
• 12:50
  you don't mind putting on your pundit head a little bit because
• 12:53
  we saw just this
• 12:53
  week tuesday you know big democratic sweeps in new york city
• 12:57
  and new jersey and in
• 12:59
  virginia you know places that typically go blue but just like
• 13:03
  the the the margins
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: were unexpected by a lot of people and
• 13:07
  And I guess I'm wondering how much you think health care played
• 13:11
  in those in those
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: elections across the board.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think the message of affordability absolutely played.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I think,
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: affordability looked a little bit,
• 13:19
  the message on affordability looked a little bit different
• 13:21
  depending on the race
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: and the place,
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: the location of where those races occurred.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: But healthcare affordability was certainly part of the message.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that is,
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think a big takeaway,
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: which is that,
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: people are dealing with an affordability crisis broadly.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: And healthcare is a major driver of
• 13:38
  Of that affordability crisis,
• 13:39
  it's consuming more and more of people's family budgets.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: People are getting, still getting bills that they can't afford.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think the broad,
• 13:47
  broadly affordability was absolutely at play and healthcare
• 13:50
  cost crisis and
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: affordability crisis was certainly a part of that for sure.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 13:55
  I just testified in a Michigan State Senate hearing on some
• 13:59
  bills that were trying
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: to deal with how medical debt is treated,
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: To A,
• 14:02
  have more transparency and actually better help at nonprofit
• 14:06
  hospitals for
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: individuals who can't afford a hospital bill.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: But then also,
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: the kind of the idea of not including those on credit reports,
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: because then it just screws up every other aspect,
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: employment,
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: housing,
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: getting a car.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: we saw the Trump administration,
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: they actually now are saying that these state-based policies,
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: violate federal law and federal supremacy should apply.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: Is that something you all have ever worked on?
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that kind of medical debt piece of this.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: I remember when Vice President Harris,
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: I was at an event at the White House when they talked about,
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: rolling this out on the federal level.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: It seems like that's rolling back now as well.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 14:44
  I think medical debt is one of the best data points we have
• 14:48
  about how broken the
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: hospital financing system is,
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: And sort of the end result of these pricing abuses.
• 14:56
  For people who rely on employer-sponsored insurance or health
• 15:01
  insurance in the
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: private market,
• 15:03
  the prices that we're all paying are largely driven by the
• 15:07
  massive amount of
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: consolidation in the private market,
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: particularly among hospitals.
• 15:12
  And the excessive prices that they're charging year after year
• 15:14
  after year because
• 15:15
  of their market power and really no accountability over how
• 15:18
  much market power they
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: have or the excessive prices that they're charging.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so, right, of course, like you're seeing a lot of medical debt.
• 15:26
  People can't afford or not being able to afford the bills and
• 15:29
  it's getting set to
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: collections and sort of all sorts of,
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 15:32
  really scary and bad sort of things for consumers or in terms
• 15:36
  of their financial
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: health and security.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, it's a great example.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's over 100 million Americans now in medical debt, right?
• 15:43
  And so I think states have a really important role to play,
• 15:47
  especially in this moment.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: a lot of times with state innovation that's happening,
• 15:52
  laws that get passed and enacted and you get some evidence and
• 15:55
  you sort of pilot,
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: hey,
• 15:56
  that's a really good way to address the cost crisis or a
• 15:59
  pricing issue that can
• 16:00
  often be the innovation that we need to bring to the national
• 16:03
  scale and to Congress
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: to demonstrate,
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: hey,
• 16:04
  that's actually doable in a market and here's the impact that
• 16:07
  it can have.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: So, um,
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: States have a really important role, right?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like last year we saw in the Indiana legislature,
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: former Senator,
• 16:15
  now Governor Braun and his health team there and the
• 16:18
  legislature passing sort of a
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: reference-based pricing,
• 16:21
  almost like a price cap on hospitals and how it consolidated
• 16:24
  the hospital markets
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: there in Indiana.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think there's just like this appetite, right?
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: There's this recognition that
• 16:29
  These market abuses are so bad in the health care system and
• 16:32
  they're such a driving
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: force on why we can't afford our care for any payer,
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: public or private or consumer.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think,
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 16:39
  this poll that we released really reinforces like there is a
• 16:43
  moment here for some
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: bold reform that gets at the root drivers.
• 16:47
  So not just about dealing with the medical debt piece,
• 16:49
  which is super important to continue.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: to shield consumers from sort of really bad debt practices,
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: but also addressing why those bills are so high in the first place,
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: why they're so excessively priced.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so we need both, I would say.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm glad you brought up Indiana because,
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: pretty red state,
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: Republican governor and legislature.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: I know in the bills that I was testifying on, it's bipartisan.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Republican and Democratic senators have introduced this legislation and
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: co-sponsored it.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: So this doesn't have to be a purely political.
• 17:20
  I mean,
• 17:20
  it certainly gets into it,
• 17:22
  particularly this time of year and then a year from now.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: But it shouldn't be right.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: This should be pretty common sense.
• 17:28
  And it seems like,
• 17:29
  at least in the states,
• 17:30
  there seems to be a little less of that.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's been my experience.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what your experience has been like.
• 17:35
  They're just really looking at the people in their state and
• 17:37
  trying to just make
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: their lives more livable and more affordable.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's absolutely right.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, governors are facing similar budget crises, right?
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like they've got rising costs.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: They've got,
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 17:50
  sort of some stagnant growth in terms of like tax revenue and
• 17:53
  ability to increase
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: revenue for the state.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's going to be even more the case now with H.R.
• 17:58
  1,
• 17:58
  sort of the one big beautiful bill and the trillion dollars of
• 18:01
  health care cuts.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: That was enacted into law earlier this year.
• 18:03
  Once that goes into effect,
• 18:04
  we're going to see that crisis in some places sort of explode.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think,
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 18:09
  I think there's just a real recognition in many states that
• 18:13
  you've got to fill
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: budget holes.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to meet the needs of consumers.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll certainly be working at Families USA with our partners.
• 18:20
  our consumer partners and other stakeholders in the states and
• 18:24
  at the national
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: level to find ways that we can maintain coverage,
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: mitigate some of the harm,
• 18:28
  and make sure that we're actually delivering on what the voters
• 18:31
  are saying,
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: which is they need relief on healthcare costs right now.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: So we got to find some ways to do that.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there is a real appetite at the state level.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: speaking to that,
• 18:40
  just I guess I'm wondering what other health care or health
• 18:43
  care efforts is
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: Families USA working on?
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, so we've got, excuse me, we've got a variety.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: We cover a lot of issues.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: We cover, we work on public and private coverage.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: We work on health care values.
• 18:54
  We've been talking about sort of the underlying drivers of high
• 18:57
  cost,
• 18:58
  low quality care.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: But as well as we have efforts around how do we just change strategies.
• 19:02
  The way we pay for health care services to make sure that
• 19:05
  people are getting paid
• 19:06
  because they're keeping people healthy and not just because
• 19:08
  they're consolidating
• 19:09
  market power and increasing prices and ordering more tests and
• 19:12
  procedures.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: So we've got a lot of different streams of work.
• 19:14
  I think,
• 19:15
  you know,
• 19:15
  obviously we've got we've been talking about a lot of our
• 19:17
  pricing work.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: We've got a lot of work on the affordability piece lifting up.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that sort of spans across hospital systems.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: We do a lot of work on drug pricing.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Hmm.
• 19:26
  And so we've been tracking some of our announcements from the
• 19:28
  administration even
• 19:29
  this week around some drug pricing announcements that the
• 19:32
  administration's come out
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: with.
• 19:33
  And then,
• 19:33
  of course,
• 19:33
  we do a ton of work on Medicaid,
• 19:36
  preserving the Medicaid program.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: We'll be working to implement H.R.
• 19:39
  1,
• 19:40
  mitigate harm instead of the new bureaucratic barriers that are
• 19:43
  being implemented as well.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: And, of course...
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: front and center.
• 19:46
  Last but definitely not least is finding a solution on the
• 19:49
  premium tax credits,
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: getting those enhanced tax credits extended in this current crisis.
• 19:53
  So a lot of a lot of different pieces for families and many
• 19:56
  others as well.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: You guys are all over.
• 19:58
  I don't know how many staff you have,
• 19:59
  but it just seems like you're all over everywhere.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's great.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: And you get so much good data,
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: I know,
• 20:03
  for those of us who are also in this fight and advocates who
• 20:06
  work with you.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's just great to hear that.
• 20:09
  So I was encouraged in the poll to see that patient or the poll
• 20:12
  respondents trust physicians.
• 20:14
  Like that was one of the things that stuck out to me just
• 20:17
  because of the work I do.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm wondering,
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: a lot of our listeners are physician advocates,
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: physician members with the Committee to Protect Healthcare.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: And
• 20:25
  I wonder what both physicians and certainly other folks can do
• 20:28
  in the fight to
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: lower health care costs.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: And do you think we can have a real impact?
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think, so first of all, yes, like everybody loves their doctors.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's, that's been true, right?
• 20:39
  Like people have such a trusted relationship with their care
• 20:42
  providers and that is
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: just absolutely critical.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: So,
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: just bravo to your listeners,
• 20:47
  because that's really hard work to build that trust and that
• 20:49
  relationship with,
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: with the communities that people serve.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: There's, there's so many challenges done at clinicians these days.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so, so that's really important takeaway.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think, yes, there's a very, very important role to play.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of these,
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 21:02
  I think being able to speak about some of these issues around
• 21:04
  affordability,
• 21:05
  about what it means for sort of the burden for providers and
• 21:09
  the challenges that
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: you face in being able to not just provide the affordable care,
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: but the comprehensive care,
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: helping patients navigate the system.
• 21:16
  I think there's a really important role to be playing in sort
• 21:19
  of surfacing those
• 21:20
  insights to help lawmakers understand that there is actually a
• 21:23
  moment here and an
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: appetite,
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: not just an appetite from voters for some big reform.
• 21:28
  But I think there's there's a larger sort of moment here in
• 21:32
  terms of how do we
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: shape the health care conversation,
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: the health care debate going into an election year and beyond.
• 21:37
  where people will be talking about a lot of innovative
• 21:39
  solutions for lowering
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: healthcare costs,
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: or at least we'll be pressing them to.
• 21:43
  And I think part of that is also how do we make the system work
• 21:46
  better,
• 21:46
  right?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: We have to make it more affordable.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: We have to make sure people have access to the care they need.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: And we have to make sure people can navigate the system.
• 21:53
  And so I think your listeners have a really important role as
• 21:56
  inside the healthcare
• 21:57
  system to be able to hit on all those points and help as a
• 22:00
  really important
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: stakeholder advance a lot of the pricing reforms,
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: but also opportunities to think about how do you do really innovative
• 22:07
  care delivery in a moment we'll be talking we need to be
• 22:10
  talking about how do we
• 22:11
  how do we deliver for the American people not just care but the
• 22:14
  right care at the
• 22:15
  right time at the right price right place that's great yeah and
• 22:19
  so I really
• 22:20
  appreciate your time I mean I know where to find you guys we
• 22:22
  know where to find you
• 22:23
  but I wonder if you know to close it off if you can tell
• 22:25
  listeners where they can
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: learn more about Families USA and the work that you guys do
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, best place to find us is at familiesusa.org.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's our website.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: We've got a ton of resources on there.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'll say,
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: one thing for folks,
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: it's always an immediate call to action is if folks have stories,
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: we have a pretty robust story banking program,
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: collecting stories,
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: not just for consumers.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: We're all sort of patients in the healthcare system.
• 22:49
  But for many folks who have a story to tell about something
• 22:51
  that's working really
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: well in the healthcare system,
• 22:53
  or the way it's not,
• 22:54
  particularly on affordability right now is a big issue.
• 22:57
  So I would say you'll be able to find all of our resources and
• 23:00
  ways to click into
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: the different types of work that we have going on there.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, people should definitely go there.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely support the work you guys are doing.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for your time.
• 23:08
  I know you're super busy and I know we got a big issue going on
• 23:11
  with ACA tax credit
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: extensions and you guys are working hard on that.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: So thanks for the time and look forward to seeing you down the road.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you guys so much.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me and thank you for your ongoing partnership.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to take all of us to move the needle on some of these things.
• 23:25
  So appreciate the opportunity to be here and to keep working
• 23:28
  with you guys.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.