Latest / The Christian Reeve Podcast / Near-Death Experiences With Josh Leonard | The Christian Reeve Podcast #211

Transcript

Near-Death Experiences With Josh Leonard | The Christian Reeve Podcast #211 · The Christian Reeve Podcast

• 0:00
  Boom, I've never opened the show like that before.
• 0:06
  I love it. That's our starting with the
• 0:09
  show's now. Boom.
• 0:11
  Welcome back to another episode of the Christian re podcast
• 0:14
  today. I have the wonderful, Josh
• 0:16
  Leonard returning on the show, welcome back my friend, and
• 0:19
  we're talking about near-death experiences.
• 0:21
  Now, this was always planned to be a episode 201 directly after
• 0:27
  episode 200. If you haven't listened to it,
• 0:29
  why haven't you? Listen to it.
• 0:30
  I had Josh on the show for that episode and we spoke all about
• 0:33
  life after death. But there just aren't enough
• 0:37
  hours in the day to do the work to give near-death experiences,
• 0:44
  the enough time and dedication that it really needs.
• 0:47
  And so we kind of agreed to do a second show scheduling, we're
• 0:51
  here now, that's the most important thing.
• 0:54
  Finally, welcome back. Thanks for having me Christian.
• 0:58
  I appreciate it man. No.
• 1:00
  No, that's put a pleasure as always.
• 1:01
  Mine are for those who don't know, Josh Leonard host a show
• 1:04
  called The Pursuit Of Infinity podcast.
• 1:06
  I go out of my way to always promote it all the time, you
• 1:08
  don't know this but whenever I'm interviewing get people or
• 1:13
  giving recommendations I always throw his name out there.
• 1:16
  Great show, wonderful work. Go check it out, the pursuit of
• 1:18
  infinity podcast. Cool.
• 1:21
  All right. As I said to Josh off camera, I
• 1:25
  wasn't really sure how to kind of begin this episode.
• 1:31
  So, I'm just kind of kind of outlined what near-death
• 1:35
  experiences are, and let's just kind of go from there.
• 1:39
  This is what I found in Frontiers psychology 2012,
• 1:45
  official. I've read quite a few drug 10
• 1:49
  course for this, which I haven't done since, like University
• 1:52
  days. So, it's been a while, and it
• 1:56
  reminded me how much I hate academic journals.
• 1:58
  But there was some, a lot of useful stuff that I found This
• 2:03
  is how it describes near-death experiences.
• 2:06
  Near-death experiences or ndes are profound psychic
• 2:11
  experiences. Commonly occurring in
• 2:13
  life-threatening conditions. They include feeling a sense of
• 2:16
  Peace of seeing a bright light and kind in countering deceased
• 2:21
  relatives or religious figures and of transcending space and
• 2:26
  time to explain them. It has been suggested that they
• 2:31
  stem from brain disorders. And/or psychological reactions
• 2:35
  to Searching death, a sort of Wishful Thinking, in response to
• 2:40
  the perceived threat. I suppose this raises an
• 2:46
  important kind of question. Right off the bat.
• 2:51
  Where do you sit on it? Because I know that you're a
• 2:54
  very spiritual person as am I? I think we're both kind of in
• 2:57
  that sphere different different approaches to it, but we both
• 3:00
  kind of landed on. Hey, we think that there is
• 3:03
  something bigger than just, you know, hey, it's just science
• 3:08
  folks, you know, I am, I've always kind of looked at science
• 3:12
  as being like, Where you start with things but there's a lot of
• 3:18
  questions that can't be answered with science.
• 3:19
  And then often, you know, that will bring in things like
• 3:23
  religion and you know, just kind of spirituality, psychic
• 3:28
  thinking all that here in that description.
• 3:33
  It kind of Implies that ndes or near-death experiences are just
• 3:38
  kind of like a Distortion Like, just like a falter you know, you
• 3:42
  like your brain basically like you dreaming and part of me can
• 3:46
  understand that and look at that and go you know what makes
• 3:48
  sense, I get it but the other part of me is like, really just
• 3:52
  a distortion, nothing else that's it.
• 3:57
  You know, it's a bit like when people say, oh, what comes after
• 4:00
  death, and it's just nothing pitch black and that's it.
• 4:04
  You're born, you're live. Die.
• 4:09
  Where do you? Sit on that?
• 4:10
  Just lets start that. It's such a complicated issue.
• 4:14
  Let's first address that thing. You just said, we're, when you
• 4:16
  die. It's nothing and it's darkness
• 4:19
  and Blackness. But why would we suggest that
• 4:23
  darkness and Blackness equal nothing?
• 4:26
  Because those are both things, they're both experiences.
• 4:29
  Like if you have an experience of Blackness or an experience of
• 4:33
  Darkness, like that's a description.
• 4:35
  Option of something. So how can that be nothing?
• 4:38
  So even when we look at like the definitions of how we go about,
• 4:42
  describing what death is what near-death experiences are.
• 4:46
  We're like, it's almost like we're stepping on our own feet
• 4:49
  and where I think it begins is this notion that in the
• 4:54
  scientific material, is Paradigm that the brain generates
• 4:58
  Consciousness. I think that's where it all
• 5:00
  begins. That's the foundation of it.
• 5:02
  Because when you look at some of these near-death experiences, it
• 5:04
  makes you kind of take into consideration that may be This
• 5:09
  exists outside of the brain and we sort of tune into it.
• 5:13
  It's like a field or a frequency or something like that, and Many
• 5:18
  religious and spiritual Traditions, go on and on, and on
• 5:21
  throughout the world about, you know, something moving on, your
• 5:25
  soul, your spirit, something like that.
• 5:27
  So to me near-death experiences, it's quite possible that when
• 5:33
  you get to that point that you're so close to death, you
• 5:37
  begin to sort of Put one foot in the door and you're like, you're
• 5:41
  beginning to transition. So you're starting to connect
• 5:43
  with that thing, whatever it is that exists Beyond you know the
• 5:48
  physical and be on the brain. do you think that's because You're
• 5:55
  beginning to let go, or do you think it's more than that?
• 6:03
  You're tapping into something that previously was not thought
• 6:08
  possible. I think it's more that I think
• 6:11
  it's more that you're tapping into something.
• 6:13
  That previously, we didn't think was possible.
• 6:17
  Because again, when we look at the brain, we think that when
• 6:20
  the brain dies Consciousness goes away, and again, you know,
• 6:24
  a lot of the times we would define consciousness as me like
• 6:29
  Josh, the person, I think I am. My preference is how I see the
• 6:33
  world all my experiences but that might not be Consciousness.
• 6:38
  That's Considered like the Persona or in the brain.
• 6:41
  It's called the default mode Network.
• 6:43
  It's the part of your brain. That is like the center for your
• 6:47
  ego or the center for what you define yourself.
• 6:48
  As and I know like you can go back to if you just get like a
• 6:54
  brain injury or something like that, that can alter your
• 6:57
  Consciousness. So yes, we can see that like the
• 7:00
  brain does have a role in like the form of Consciousness that
• 7:04
  manifests itself through it. But it just seems to me like
• 7:09
  There's something beyond what we're looking at physically in
• 7:12
  this world. And that, like, we can access it
• 7:14
  through certain means, like near-death experience is
• 7:17
  meditation psychedelics. it went in this really interesting,
• 7:22
  especially in the research that I did for this is that I
• 7:24
  realized that there are so many Accounts witness accounts of
• 7:32
  near-death experiences can now bear in mind.
• 7:36
  Yeah. How many people there are in the
• 7:37
  world and all that? And this guy that just had on my
• 7:41
  show, his name's Guy of chingam amazing guy.
• 7:47
  It kind of began the series of near death experiences.
• 7:49
  This guy has had several near-death experiences in his
• 7:52
  life. And I said to him, I was like,
• 7:56
  do you do you think you're like cursed or do you think there's
• 7:59
  like I don't know like a deeper meaning to all this and he
• 8:02
  seemed to kind of think there there might be always you know,
• 8:05
  but like he just kind of got on with it and that's how he rolled
• 8:07
  with it. But you know I mean I wonder
• 8:11
  sometimes if if maybe it's the classic oh we those few have
• 8:16
  those experiences to share with the rest of us but you know,
• 8:19
  we're all Skeptics you know. Science has led us to be
• 8:22
  Skeptics as we should be. B.
• 8:26
  But at the same time, it's like when you hear about so many
• 8:30
  different experiences, The all as well, a very similar.
• 8:37
  Yeah, we've often heard about the light at the end of the
• 8:40
  tunnel or various other different things that will go
• 8:44
  into later in this show but like there's a lot of different
• 8:48
  experiences out there and stories that kind of converge or
• 8:54
  are similar in many respects. Like what do you make of that?
• 8:57
  The fact that there's just that this abundance of end, he's out
• 9:01
  there and The implications are, what that can mean.
• 9:05
  It almost feels like people people who are having and E's
• 9:09
  are like tapping in to the same frequency or the same something.
• 9:13
  And, you know, you can find a lot of similarities in the
• 9:17
  experience itself. But what I find is really,
• 9:20
  really intriguing is the consistency to, which people say
• 9:25
  their lives change after they've had a near-death experience.
• 9:29
  They talk about love and unity in.
• 9:32
  Nature and, you know, being of service to others.
• 9:35
  And that to me, it's a very particular type of lesson to be
• 9:39
  learned from something and it's also a lesson that we don't
• 9:42
  really teach and value in like Western culture.
• 9:46
  So, to me the fact that a lot of people are having the same exact
• 9:50
  message in the same sort of overarching, transcendent,
• 9:55
  feeling is just miraculous to me.
• 9:59
  That's a real key aspect of the. Well, there's a couple of things
• 10:02
  you touched on there. That want to delve into one of
• 10:03
  them being the East versus West philosophy is kind of thing.
• 10:08
  When I started Living in Europe and I saw, I had a gave me a
• 10:12
  totally different perspective on things like psychic abilities
• 10:19
  spirituality, these different things like the way.
• 10:22
  People look at those things and approach, those things and
• 10:25
  consider those things totally different from UK America
• 10:30
  whatever like it's almost like sometimes it's like tapping into
• 10:35
  knowledge that's been forgotten or it.
• 10:38
  The interesting thing is it's always it's always scoffed at.
• 10:41
  But then you hear of these instances where you know people
• 10:43
  will take like say Asian medicines and or go through
• 10:47
  certain treatments or whatever and then they have full
• 10:50
  recoveries from different things.
• 10:52
  Now again to say this right now, before I get blistered with this
• 10:58
  That doesn't mean that there's only one way or that, that's
• 11:01
  what everyone should do. It's just interesting that, that
• 11:06
  is something that scuffed up. And then there's like so many
• 11:08
  different instances of where that's worked and where people
• 11:13
  have embraced Eastern philosophy, or Eastern medicine
• 11:16
  or whatever, and then it's led to breakthroughs or it's led to,
• 11:20
  as you said, you know, people living very different lives.
• 11:25
  I don't think it's a coincidence that when people tend to to
• 11:28
  embrace that type of life through things like Buddhism or
• 11:32
  you know, spiritual lives or dedicating their lives to things
• 11:37
  like you know, charity and Projects that help Humanity that
• 11:44
  they kind of discover this deeper profound sense of meaning
• 11:48
  that they didn't have in their lives before. which when you say
• 11:53
  out loud is obvious course, life isn't supposed to just be about
• 11:56
  work and you know Making a living and making sure you have
• 12:02
  enough to survive. It has to be more than that.
• 12:07
  There's nothing to prove that we do have a purpose, but certainly
• 12:11
  life feels a lot more fulfilling when it feels like you do have a
• 12:14
  purpose and you are there trying to help others.
• 12:18
  When I look at this show, for example, and I said and zillion
• 12:20
  times but I want to raise it here.
• 12:25
  I feel like if I'd never achieve anything else it'll be okay.
• 12:30
  So long as this show stands the test of time and delivers
• 12:35
  something that in the future the say like you're watching this 20
• 12:39
  30 years from now and you can sit down and say there's value
• 12:43
  in there. Still, this is eternal Timeless.
• 12:47
  I remember her back to job. One time.
• 12:50
  It's been a side note here. and there was a push on trying to
• 12:54
  create content that was conquered Evergreen because
• 12:58
  there was considered more value in creating something that was
• 13:02
  eternal that you could return to versus something that was just
• 13:05
  in the moment, a snippet in time because when you look at things
• 13:08
  that are created that represent certain moment in time, You know
• 13:14
  historically they can be interesting.
• 13:15
  You go back and watch like archival news footage or
• 13:17
  whatever. That's interesting but like
• 13:19
  there's a lot of things like say that you see a YouTube video and
• 13:22
  it's talking about like a shop. I am in a game that was released
• 13:25
  on a certain day. Once that day has passed.
• 13:29
  That is a pointless video. But it's not pointless, it also
• 13:33
  represents a mark, a moment, a time, everything. so, then maybe
• 13:39
  it becomes more about The meaning that you find in a
• 13:44
  thing. Similar to how me and you can
• 13:48
  sit down and listen to the same song.
• 13:51
  I find nothing in it but you find everything in it.
• 13:55
  And my that's a kind of crazy thing to think about.
• 14:01
  The other aspects of this. I thought a lot about how in our
• 14:06
  first conversation together. We spoke a lot about your
• 14:08
  experiences with psychedelics and stuff like that and how that
• 14:12
  changed you as a person and linking that back to what we
• 14:17
  were talking about with near-death experiences.
• 14:20
  I think that it would be impossible not to go through
• 14:25
  something like that and not see life differently thereafter.
• 14:29
  I suppose having a near-death experience and having something,
• 14:33
  which proves I can't say that because say something can't say
• 14:39
  that something that proves that maybe there's something. off to
• 14:45
  it, something waiting for us, that could then give you more
• 14:52
  reason to live perhaps. Or the flip reverse is true, if
• 14:58
  you believe that. There's nothing such as Ricky.
• 15:01
  Gervais often says this in interviews, that he feels that
• 15:04
  there's just nothing and that that's it.
• 15:08
  That contain many people from many people hearing that, you
• 15:11
  know, maybe you go down the the nature and you think, oh, what's
• 15:14
  the point, you know, God is dead.
• 15:16
  Nothing is real. Nothing, there's no meaning.
• 15:18
  But then, You could also have the flip reverse and think I do
• 15:22
  know if anything, if if that's it.
• 15:25
  If we are born, we live, we die. And that's it.
• 15:27
  Then surely, it's everything to just be here and be in the
• 15:32
  Embrace every single second and every single moment the other
• 15:38
  day. I don't know, this all sounds
• 15:40
  like a ramble, but trust me, it's part of a wider group of
• 15:44
  thoughts that I'm bringing together just how I roll.
• 15:48
  There was this This singer that passed away in the in the last
• 15:52
  couple of days and the guy was 42 years old.
• 15:58
  Mid 40s and the band. I don't know if Americans are
• 16:03
  notice or International, but there was a band called S Club
• 16:06
  7. And in the UK huge in the late
• 16:11
  90s, early 2000s. I remember being in school and
• 16:15
  listening to them at school discos and everything, you know,
• 16:19
  seeing them do their terrible movies on Light TV and
• 16:24
  everything. It was, it was fun.
• 16:25
  It was funny. Didn't have to Anything amazing.
• 16:27
  It was just a good fun time in life and a warm memory of
• 16:33
  childhood. They just announced their
• 16:36
  reunions tool 25 years and Not two weeks later, this man passes
• 16:45
  away. And normally, you know, I've
• 16:49
  seen a lot of people pass away before their time, but this just
• 16:51
  kind of hit me for some reason. Maybe it's just because of
• 16:53
  everything. I've been going through lately,
• 16:55
  just difficult time in life, but I looked at it and it kind of
• 17:00
  just hit me in a deep way. And I was like, wow, like The
• 17:04
  moment is truly fleeting, like you just never know when it's
• 17:06
  coming. It could come at any time.
• 17:10
  All the more reason to live right now for the moment and to
• 17:14
  embrace every single second and make it count.
• 17:19
  So but there's so many questions I can ask you off the back of
• 17:25
  that. Let's focus on that a little bit
• 17:30
  more. Let's delve into that a little
• 17:32
  bit more, giving yourself meaning after realization like
• 17:36
  that. Where do you sell on that?
• 17:40
  It's very important, a very important part of say a
• 17:44
  psychedelic experience or a near-death experience.
• 17:49
  Are, you know, the consequences of that experience and what it
• 17:52
  brings to you. And generally what these things
• 17:55
  impart on us is The notion that especially with a psychedelic
• 18:01
  because I have psychedelic experience.
• 18:03
  But I've never had a near-death experience.
• 18:05
  So with psychedelics, you get this feeling that you are both
• 18:11
  the individual and also the collective at the same time,
• 18:16
  which is very strange. And it's not something you can
• 18:18
  just get living through your everyday life.
• 18:22
  And it's funny. I want a quick go back to
• 18:24
  something. You said, like relating your
• 18:27
  death experiences to sell. Del X.
• 18:29
  So there are two people that I interviewed on my show one is
• 18:32
  named Bill letson. I think it was episode like 45.
• 18:35
  Then earlier a dude named Kyle Boller.
• 18:39
  So these two both had near-death experiences and then had
• 18:44
  continued on and moved on to using psychedelics.
• 18:48
  And what they both had said was that they got to the same exact
• 18:54
  place on psychedelics where they previously were in there.
• 18:58
  Near death experience, the experience the same feelings,
• 19:02
  the same, they learned that the same types of lessons.
• 19:05
  They saw the same types of things.
• 19:07
  So to me, it's like there's many paths to approach that thing.
• 19:15
  Like the thing that we're all saying may or may not exist
• 19:19
  Beyond life and when you talk about like Ricky Gervais, you
• 19:23
  know saying like oh there's nothing after and this and that
• 19:26
  like again, you know, to Questions.
• 19:28
  Like what, what do you mean by nothing?
• 19:31
  You know what I mean? Like, what exactly does that
• 19:33
  mean? And if and again, if you're
• 19:35
  saying that's darkness and you're saying that's Blackness,
• 19:38
  well, that's an experience. So if you're going to say that
• 19:41
  is equal to nothing, I think you have to re-evaluate what you
• 19:44
  think nothing is and also it's like record.
• 19:50
  You Ricky Gervais is right in a way.
• 19:54
  Because yes it is nothing but it's also not nothing.
• 19:58
  It's also everything. So to understand these things
• 20:01
  you have to be able to hold Paradox and a good way to
• 20:06
  represent. This is say like you know that
• 20:08
  classic image of the vase and then like the Silhouettes of the
• 20:13
  two faces on either side, have you ever seen this part of this
• 20:18
  golden? So like essentially there's two
• 20:21
  faces and they're in the opposition looking Inward and
• 20:25
  then the shape of their face. Like it creates this like
• 20:29
  chalice or like a goblet or a vase type of thing.
• 20:32
  It's black and white. So say like the faces on the
• 20:34
  side or black and then the Chalice on the inside is white,
• 20:38
  similar to like the yin and the Yang.
• 20:41
  And when you look at that thing, say, you've never had a
• 20:44
  psychedelic. Say you've never had a
• 20:46
  near-death experience or a meditative spiritual type,
• 20:49
  mystical experience. And you're looking at that
• 20:51
  thing, say that Represents reality, and you're only seeing
• 20:55
  the vase in the center. Then when you take a psychedelic
• 20:59
  or when you have in your death experience, it's like you're
• 21:02
  given this Vision to see the faces on both sides as well.
• 21:07
  So it's like you're seeing something that's always been
• 21:09
  there that gives context and shape to that centerpiece.
• 21:14
  But now with New Vision, you're able to see both parts of it,
• 21:18
  you know what I mean? It's like you're holding that
• 21:20
  Paradox and the way that relates to language, A gervase and what
• 21:24
  he says about nothingness and Atheism is like yeah, you're
• 21:27
  getting part of it but you're not seeing the thing that gives
• 21:30
  context to what you're describing, if that makes sense.
• 21:35
  Hey, but okay. And that was advocate for a
• 21:38
  second. I still like what?
• 21:40
  He's really trying to hint about is that okay?
• 21:45
  I know you said that, you know, there's no experience that in
• 21:48
  sorry but there is an expert like that nothingness is an
• 21:50
  experience and I think there's there's truth in that but if
• 21:55
  we're comparing this right now, what we're experiencing right
• 21:59
  now and any other similar form of life that my may exist to a
• 22:06
  state of not being I mean, that's not life.
• 22:10
  That's not, you know, it's not we can argue that if its
• 22:13
  existence but it's not life. It's not an experience, an
• 22:17
  individual experience. It's I mean, okay.
• 22:20
  Like the closest thing I could really compare it to is, when
• 22:23
  you, when you go to sleep, you don't have a memory of it.
• 22:29
  You just, you know, you go to sleep.
• 22:32
  Sometimes we have dreams. Sometimes not.
• 22:36
  And then you wake up again. but if you didn't wake up, Then you
• 22:43
  would just that would that would be it and that's kind of what
• 22:46
  the f is really, is that you just don't like off again.
• 22:51
  You could argue, that's peace. I mean, you know, when you're
• 22:54
  asleep, you don't feel pain, you don't feel anything, you feel.
• 23:00
  But with that being said, You do, you can have experiences.
• 23:06
  For instance, I did an episode way earlier, in the Christian,
• 23:10
  we podcast about my experiences of sleep, paralysis and sleep
• 23:13
  apnea. Now, for the most part, it's and
• 23:18
  this is something. We'll go into a little bit
• 23:19
  later. There's an experience of being
• 23:22
  outside of one's body. and, It feels physical and I know that.
• 23:31
  My mind is trying to kind of understand that.
• 23:34
  Okay, physically, I am my bet, my body is there in the bed and
• 23:39
  it can't move and obviously that's because the mind has
• 23:44
  paralyzed the body to stop it from you know, like smacking
• 23:46
  myself in the face and wake myself up going rooms.
• 23:49
  That's yet to keep yourself asleep.
• 23:52
  But at the same time there's experiences within that don't
• 23:55
  that don't make sense. And you wonder if it's
• 23:59
  Distortion of the mind or not like my Experience of the
• 24:02
  quote-unquote, the night hag and what that is.
• 24:04
  Well, that represents you could just argue scientifically that
• 24:08
  it is just distortions is just your mind messing with you.
• 24:11
  And that maybe could also be something a bit different or
• 24:15
  more profound point is, it's an experience that's hard when you
• 24:19
  are asleep when you are, you know, in the nothingness, then
• 24:23
  there's arguments that, you know, maybe astral projection
• 24:25
  Works. Maybe, you know, that is
• 24:28
  something that exists. It's hard to really say there
• 24:33
  are definitely accounts of that. I've had an experience when I
• 24:36
  was Very young that kind of I'm about had like many years of
• 24:44
  dreaming. I was falling.
• 24:46
  It's quite a weird dream. It was just like when I say
• 24:49
  dream like I it was like, I was falling from a building and then
• 25:00
  it was like a mixture of like feeling, like I'm falling, but I
• 25:03
  never reach the floor ever, but it was the sensation of falling
• 25:07
  and it felt terrifying and then it was so feeling like I just
• 25:12
  landed into the bed and then I woke up, Almost as though maybe
• 25:18
  my astral body was flying around and landed in the body.
• 25:22
  Now I don't know where I stand on it, if I believe on that or
• 25:25
  not, but my point is, that's another experience that happens.
• 25:30
  Seemingly in the nothingness void. maybe the key to all of
• 25:35
  this is less to do with The debate of whether or not there's
• 25:40
  nothing or anything, maybe it's more to do with the memory of
• 25:44
  experience. Maybe when we die?
• 25:50
  Memory is no longer a factor at all because in our life in our
• 25:54
  existence, as human beings memory is our only tied to the
• 26:00
  Past because everything else changes the cells in our body
• 26:04
  change, you look at photos. You look different.
• 26:06
  You don't even look like the same person.
• 26:08
  You recognize it similar. You can see that it's the same
• 26:11
  person throughout life or sometimes you can't.
• 26:13
  Sometimes it looks like a different person.
• 26:15
  The point is the only thing that truly helps you remember is your
• 26:18
  own memories and then now, you know, pictures and videos and
• 26:22
  such but Here's something that'll mess with your head.
• 26:30
  There's no way of proving that those memories are real.
• 26:33
  You know, that you experienced that.
• 26:37
  But you know that you experienced that because your
• 26:38
  mind tells you that you experienced that and you
• 26:43
  remember, living it. But what if somehow that was a
• 26:48
  lie? What if somehow You died
• 26:52
  already. How would you know all you have
• 26:56
  is your memories? What you make of that?
• 27:01
  Well, I've heard people say that like, for instance, it's
• 27:05
  possible that time being, like people say time is an illusion
• 27:11
  and it's all happening at the same time time is just sort of
• 27:14
  like what we Define as it is a chronological unfolding of
• 27:17
  events in the way that we measure and see it, according to
• 27:19
  our senses and our clocks and things like that.
• 27:21
  But say time is all happening and all has happened in your
• 27:28
  life and Say, would, you know, if you go to sleep at night and
• 27:32
  then you wake up, you could say, wake up in 2035 and because like
• 27:39
  you said, you had all those previous memories.
• 27:42
  You think that you're waking up into that year?
• 27:45
  You know what I'm saying? Or possibly, I could go to sleep
• 27:49
  tonight and then I could wake up in, you know, I don't know 1998.
• 27:54
  I could be nine years old but I still I instilled with the
• 27:59
  previous. Ruiz of those years.
• 28:02
  So, I would have no way of knowing what time that I woke up
• 28:05
  into in my life span, right? You've just opened up a can of
• 28:11
  worms here. I've never thought about this,
• 28:12
  okay, first of all, great movie idea.
• 28:14
  Imagine that, right a cycle where someone go out in
• 28:19
  Hollywood and make this and make me the lead actor in it because
• 28:22
  I need work. So movie idea a guy is probably
• 28:26
  been that. It must have been done a guy
• 28:28
  girl person who continuously moves back and forth through
• 28:33
  time and experiences different points in their life but does
• 28:39
  not have any memory or recollection of it.
• 28:41
  And as you said, Only has the memories previous to that point
• 28:46
  in time, but then eventually there's a distortion movie Magic
• 28:50
  and now they are aware. And now what do they do with
• 28:55
  that information? And where are they going to end
• 28:56
  up waking up next? That come on, tell me that's not
• 29:00
  a great movie idea. That would great.
• 29:01
  Start great stuff. Yeah, make it happen and if not
• 29:05
  I will make it happen anyway, copyright.
• 29:10
  No, but let's explore that for a second.
• 29:14
  Gosh, that could be possible. It makes me wonder as well
• 29:20
  because one thing I've always thought about Is.
• 29:26
  And this goes back to something third.
• 29:29
  So have you ever seen Star Trek the Next Generation?
• 29:33
  I have not, I was always a Star Wars guy.
• 29:35
  Okay, well you redeemed, it's brilliant.
• 29:38
  You should watch it sometimes particularly because of the
• 29:41
  things that you're interested and I think you dig it because
• 29:44
  Star Trek next Generation, it had a lot of kooky crazy
• 29:46
  episodes but there were a lot of like philosophical episodes that
• 29:51
  really messed with your head as far as like things like time
• 29:53
  travel. Like Life after death, all sorts
• 29:56
  of interesting Concepts and one of them was an episode where
• 30:00
  they were essentially caught in something like a Time Loop.
• 30:05
  But not exactly. And basically there's a moment
• 30:08
  where they're all meeting in the same room and they're like and
• 30:11
  it's become a meme now, but it's like, oh, we could have done
• 30:14
  this like 50,000 times 50 times 100 times, five times and we'd
• 30:20
  never know. How do we know how many times
• 30:22
  we've done this? They're caught in a temporal
• 30:24
  Loop. That's basically what it is.
• 30:25
  Is, and it makes me wonder how many times are we experienced
• 30:30
  experienced this? How many times have me?
• 30:32
  And you sat down and had this exact conversation?
• 30:35
  How do we know we're not in a loop?
• 30:37
  How do we know that when, you know, we're not going to stop
• 30:41
  immediately after this? How do we know that human
• 30:46
  civilization has not already reached the current point that
• 30:50
  it's reached several times over Now this is delving into
• 30:54
  conspiracy a little bit but like when I look at some of the old
• 30:58
  like, you know, civilization stuff that exists where there's
• 31:01
  like no indication of what that civilization was like all we
• 31:07
  have is like building remnants or small indications that a
• 31:12
  civilization existed but we don't know to what extent.
• 31:16
  But sometimes every once in a while something will come out of
• 31:19
  the woodwork like an old artifact or whatever the
• 31:21
  indicates they had a lot more. More technology than previously
• 31:26
  thought, which makes me wonder if they got to this point before
• 31:29
  and if so is it possible? We've got to the same point or
• 31:32
  further. And then something catastrophic
• 31:36
  happened. Now, this has nothing to do with
• 31:38
  near-death experiences, but what are your thoughts on that?
• 31:41
  There's so much evidence for that and the more and more I
• 31:48
  look into it. I truly do believe that we're
• 31:51
  living in this like situation where humans.
• 31:55
  We just so happen to be the most evolved species on the planet.
• 31:58
  So it's like week, we rise up, We rise up, we become
• 32:02
  technologically advanced and we do our thing.
• 32:05
  And then eventually, what happens, is there some sort of
• 32:08
  and there's massive evidence for this some sort of Global
• 32:12
  cataclysm that comes from space, whether it be a meteor or a
• 32:15
  comet, something like that. So, twice a year, we travel
• 32:18
  through What's called the toward meteor stream.
• 32:21
  And that is just an absolute mess of comets, meteors space
• 32:25
  rocks. And it said that every 12 to 13
• 32:29
  thousand years, we come into contact with one of these
• 32:33
  celestial bodies and it hits us and it sort of just resets life
• 32:37
  on Earth to a certain degree. And there's a lot of ancient
• 32:41
  Shins that in their art and in their buildings.
• 32:45
  They allude to these types of things.
• 32:47
  So, there is, there's a ton of evidence for that but it seems
• 32:50
  to me. Like if we don't get our
• 32:54
  technological and intellectual advancement at the same level of
• 32:58
  our wisdom, then it seems like it's like the celestial, you
• 33:04
  know, Universe shuts us down and makes us restart again or
• 33:08
  something like that. And right now, I see us on a
• 33:10
  path where Like maybe previous civilizations, where our
• 33:14
  technology has gotten so insane, but our wisdom in our
• 33:17
  spirituality has not caught up to that yet and we're not able
• 33:22
  to use the tools in a way that would prevent us or save us from
• 33:25
  this Global cataclysm that. These ancient cultures have been
• 33:28
  warning about for centuries. So it and we're entering into
• 33:33
  that like 200 to 500 year time period where like it's about
• 33:39
  time we get smashed again. So One thing that it raises,
• 33:44
  which I'm sure you've seen in the media, a lot lately.
• 33:46
  I know you've done episodes on this as well.
• 33:49
  The evolution of artificial intelligence and how it's
• 33:53
  changing everything and how it will change everything.
• 33:56
  Mark, this moment in your calendar right now.
• 33:58
  This moment in time 2023, look at everything that's going on
• 34:02
  right now. The world is changing this
• 34:06
  marks. A moment this is like to Y2K is
• 34:09
  the same thing. The world is changing.
• 34:11
  In a way that it will not go back.
• 34:15
  There's no way of going backwards, the can't progress.
• 34:18
  Unless, you know, end-of-the-world scenario point
• 34:21
  is it's a point of no return. We have given birth to a, i, and
• 34:26
  now, This is where the interesting aspect is.
• 34:30
  And the question I wanted to ask you and explore with you for
• 34:34
  this moment because I knew that we weren't just going to explore
• 34:37
  the different experiences. There's so much tied to this, to
• 34:39
  explore so many Concepts and things and we will get more into
• 34:42
  in near-death experiences. I promise you that.
• 34:44
  But there's a lot of stuff connected to this that we can we
• 34:48
  need really need to explore. One of those things is a i
• 34:50
  because Whatever you want to say about a, i good bad, the ugly
• 34:57
  we've created it, it exists. Now, human beings with
• 35:03
  biological. You know, organisms, we can die
• 35:08
  quite easily. May I that's more difficult to
• 35:12
  destroy so long. As there always exists some sort
• 35:16
  of computer, whatever some way to store the this life, you
• 35:23
  know, be it through robots. Be it through systems is always
• 35:28
  going to exist which kind of implies that you know, AI is
• 35:31
  like our and they've said this in movies and stuff is our kind
• 35:34
  of like our child. You know, like we died and AI,
• 35:38
  outlives us essentially. now, with that in mind, I suppose a
• 35:44
  do you think that's kind of the inevitable future of the human
• 35:46
  race? Is that where we're likely to be
• 35:49
  headed like we you know we give birth to a i and we're just we
• 35:53
  cease to be or do you think it's more a case of like AI is what
• 35:59
  will help us to finally kind of move forwards?
• 36:03
  And Perhaps Escape the Fate of continually being destroyed.
• 36:08
  Maybe exploring space travel, who knows?
• 36:12
  I seem to be a little more on the optimistic side personally
• 36:16
  but what this brings to mind there was a quote, I think it
• 36:19
  was by William James in like the early 1900s and he said that
• 36:24
  human beings are the sex organs of the Machine World which is a
• 36:28
  terrifying notion. It's like, what we're here to do
• 36:33
  is to give birth to this artificial intelligence, you
• 36:37
  know via technology. But interestingly like you said
• 36:40
  that, It's probably harder to shut down AI, but it might be
• 36:45
  easier because if it's if it's just electric based, like, based
• 36:49
  on electricity then, I mean, something like a solar flare or,
• 36:54
  you know, just the power grid going down, could wipe it out
• 36:56
  completely. So, I feel like some of the
• 36:58
  danger might lie in relying too much on it for our systems of
• 37:02
  living. So we're if it would be disabled
• 37:04
  in some way shape or form. We would be screwed like
• 37:07
  massively. But, yeah, AI man.
• 37:10
  It's it's in Justin because then you also have to ask yourself.
• 37:15
  Are we looking at something that is potentially going to be what
• 37:19
  they call General artificial intelligence, which is like
• 37:23
  basically Consciousness like human consciousness in like the
• 37:28
  form of a machine in the same way that we have Consciousness.
• 37:33
  But I don't think that's possible because what we're
• 37:36
  doing is like we're trying to use technology to emulate the
• 37:41
  human. Human brain.
• 37:43
  And there is no possible way and least in my vision to create a
• 37:48
  computer that mimics what the human brain itself.
• 37:52
  Does because the human brain is something that we don't even
• 37:54
  understand, even a little bit. It's the most complicated thing
• 37:57
  in the universe to us. I totally agree with this point
• 38:01
  because, you know, I grew up on Sci-Fi movies like that,
• 38:04
  everyone else? I'm sure we're right in the same
• 38:06
  boat, on this like every movie ever saw about like Android
• 38:09
  cyborgs, whatever they always, kind of hint.
• 38:11
  Like the fact that, you know, either a, I will be the undoing
• 38:15
  of the human race, it will destroy us.
• 38:18
  And some of that I can see like a determinate a tile Stone area.
• 38:22
  I think is possible. You know, if you got like an
• 38:24
  accidental failsafe thing, like let's be real humans like with
• 38:29
  the AI. That's the exist in the world
• 38:30
  right now. Some people are going to use
• 38:32
  that for bad. That's just how humans work.
• 38:34
  Okay, many people will use it for good but we like to sabotage
• 38:38
  ourselves. We it's just in our nature.
• 38:41
  ER to, you know, there's always going to be a few people who
• 38:44
  cause trouble. That's just how it is.
• 38:46
  And so you have to accept the possibility.
• 38:48
  That would that in mind a I could be used and will be used
• 38:52
  in negative ways and one of those could be, you know,
• 38:56
  leading to Deaths and stuff. I mean, drones are a good
• 38:58
  example of that. Yes.
• 38:59
  Okay, they're powered by humans and they're directed but we're
• 39:03
  getting to a point now where there Automatic and able to be
• 39:07
  sort of self-operated, basically, anyway that point
• 39:14
  that you touched on there is, is really important.
• 39:17
  And I feel like chat GPT really kind of dumb that illustrates
• 39:23
  that very well because I think when we're realistic about it,
• 39:27
  it will get to a point where it's perfectly able to,
• 39:30
  replicate whatever humans do 100%, but the key ingredient
• 39:35
  that's missing. The key thing that it will never
• 39:37
  be able to do which the movies always kind of apply all.
• 39:40
  This is possible at our Blade Runner or something, but it's
• 39:43
  just not possible, is to have original thought. everything,
• 39:49
  the AI does will always be replicating human thought
• 39:53
  because of the sentience issue because of the fact that like I
• 39:58
  mean. I know and this bulbs are
• 40:01
  bigger. Existential question really.
• 40:03
  Doesn't it that the existence of life itself?
• 40:05
  Like how do you give birth to something and, and you know, I
• 40:10
  suppose you could argue that Why you would need God a myth, some
• 40:16
  power, something like that. That's a big argument.
• 40:19
  That's a conversation for another day but suppose a bigger
• 40:22
  question is, would it be possible for humans to give
• 40:26
  sentience to another life form to AI as a bold bit question?
• 40:32
  I feel like my my feeling is no. Because again, it comes down to
• 40:42
  the fact that AI is He's gaining access to information and
• 40:48
  replicating and I'm trying to think past it's like, I know
• 40:51
  it's very easy to sit down and say with the current structure
• 40:55
  of how things exist. Now, you know, it's very easy to
• 40:57
  be like, oh, I'll never be like that, but I'm trying to look
• 40:59
  ahead and think about. Okay, let's imagine it's like 50
• 41:01
  years from now, because things are moving very quickly right
• 41:04
  now, like, within the next five years were going to see some
• 41:06
  crazy changes, but you got to look at the long-term 50 years
• 41:11
  from now. Where is a?
• 41:12
  I likely to be. Well, we're definitely going to
• 41:16
  have like, Androids robots, that kind of thing.
• 41:18
  But it will be, you're not going to be talking to, you know, a
• 41:25
  person you're going to be talking to something that is
• 41:28
  mimicking. Something that is reacting to
• 41:31
  you. Like, I think Blade Runner
• 41:32
  really does actually explore this very well.
• 41:34
  I know I criticized it before but hear me out.
• 41:36
  Like, in the interactions that the main character has in babe,
• 41:42
  Runner. Nine with the, there's like a
• 41:45
  software, but he interacts with, that's like his girlfriend or
• 41:49
  whatever. And there's a point later in the
• 41:53
  movie where he's lost his curious girlfriend because it
• 41:57
  was, she was contained. But it's a long-winded story.
• 42:00
  But basically, like she originally was confined to his
• 42:06
  apartment because she is, she was a hologram, write a
• 42:08
  software, a type of holographic image, but she was able to
• 42:12
  interact with him and stuff. And appear human-like and mimic
• 42:16
  everything and everything. And, you know, they would talk
• 42:18
  back and forth but he is constantly talking to her and
• 42:22
  she is responding to him and learn.
• 42:24
  It's a i machine learning essentially.
• 42:29
  And you know, he he kind of he accepts it, you know, like he he
• 42:34
  plays into it, he does have a genuine attachment for it but
• 42:37
  here you can see in his eyes he always knows that it's not real
• 42:40
  but he kind of just accept it, but I think it's better to
• 42:44
  accept it even more because he himself is not real.
• 42:47
  He is a an Android. So it's an interesting.
• 42:51
  You go watch. They brother. 2049 is fantastic
• 42:54
  movie, but like it explores this and I think, I think that's very
• 42:57
  interesting. This this idea, Like, it could
• 43:00
  get to a point where it's almost indistinguishable from a human
• 43:03
  but there's no soul there. Part of the beauty of being
• 43:08
  human is, for example, the ability to be wrong, a, I will
• 43:13
  always be right. Yeah, and okay, before people
• 43:16
  say yeah there is, you know, misinformation there is that
• 43:19
  your butt like it can just take from Google and like, Ms, you
• 43:24
  know, a normal human being can't do that.
• 43:27
  But a human being can, for example, dig deep and answer
• 43:33
  philosophical questions or attempt to or, you know, try and
• 43:36
  find do incredible Things. That No One thought possible,
• 43:41
  purely from self-determination will, I don't know whatever you
• 43:46
  want to call it. Sometimes you do things in life.
• 43:48
  I'm sure everyone listening can appreciate, I'm sure you can
• 43:51
  appreciate this. Josh, sometimes you do something
• 43:53
  that blows your mind and you think, how did I do that?
• 43:56
  And there's no logical. Reason for your ability to do
• 43:59
  that. You just found something within
• 44:02
  yourself and we're able to push yourself and do it and machine
• 44:07
  Will never Tire a machine will, you know, it can break down.
• 44:11
  It can explode, it can do all these different things but it
• 44:13
  will never Tire or never. Have those issues that humans
• 44:18
  have but it also won't be able to get deep like a human being
• 44:23
  can. It won't be able to express
• 44:26
  human emotion. Okay.
• 44:28
  Human can it can replicate them. But it can't have the capacity
• 44:32
  to, to understand fully understand like empathy or love
• 44:38
  or Originality, you know, I'm seeing a lot of stuff right now,
• 44:43
  about Ai replicating and creating things like, AI songs
• 44:48
  and stuff and it's like I'm sure it can do that, but that's been
• 44:51
  programmed by a person to do that.
• 44:53
  That's still a human being interacting with it and
• 44:57
  prompting it and giving it kind of parameters and it kind of
• 45:00
  selects existing things within that and matches them.
• 45:03
  It's like a mix and match scenario, you know, like for
• 45:06
  instance, one of the things that I did was just for fun I GPT to
• 45:12
  to write a poem in the style of dr.
• 45:16
  Seuss or something and it did it.
• 45:18
  It was fun, it was good but it's taking the existing writing
• 45:21
  style of a deceased author and then kind of playing around with
• 45:25
  the parameters of that. And the way you got look at that
• 45:28
  is there's there's, there's like 100 million different variations
• 45:31
  of what it could have sent me and it's chosen one.
• 45:35
  You could argue the fact that it made a choice. as an argument
• 45:40
  that there's ability for sentience but then it's probably
• 45:43
  only made that decision based on odds mathematics, you know,
• 45:49
  going through and deciding which it which is one is the accurate
• 45:53
  answer. The correct answer.
• 45:55
  Whereas, how many times in your life have you made a decision,
• 45:59
  or answered on something, which, you know, is not maybe the
• 46:02
  answer per se but it just felt right.
• 46:09
  Anything? So I think the fundamental
• 46:12
  question is like we think about, can you just inject
• 46:17
  Consciousness into a machine by more complex and complex
• 46:21
  versions of coding? And we don't even know what
• 46:24
  Consciousness is. So in my opinion, the notion
• 46:29
  that we can just like inject Consciousness into something,
• 46:33
  especially that thing, not even being a biological entity.
• 46:36
  Just seems like we're thinking about it in.
• 46:38
  Like the wrong way, people who get really scared about it, I
• 46:41
  think a better way to get scared of AI is like Elon Musk.
• 46:44
  He said, similar to the way that like, if we want to build a road
• 46:50
  and there's an anthill and the place that we want to build that
• 46:54
  road, we're going to pay right over that anthill because we
• 46:57
  have a we have a direct goal in mind that we're going to
• 47:01
  accomplish and it's more important to us than the
• 47:04
  survival of these ants, you know what I mean?
• 47:07
  So if you extrapolate that idea too.
• 47:08
  To a potential AI. You know what they're
• 47:12
  essentially doing is they're just completing a programmed
• 47:15
  task that's put into them and you bring up like what it means
• 47:20
  to be human or like the differences of Being Human.
• 47:23
  And one of those things is again being able to have a near-death
• 47:25
  experience. Do you think a computer machine
• 47:28
  can have a near-death experience or a mystical spiritual
• 47:30
  experience? It can use those words if you,
• 47:34
  if you log into chat GPT and you ask it about God and
• 47:37
  Consciousness and all this stuff.
• 47:38
  If it's going to answer you in a very philosophical way but the
• 47:43
  words that it's that it's getting its taking from data,
• 47:47
  its data mining the internet. So all I have to do is go on the
• 47:50
  internet and say, like what is Buddhism or something and it'll
• 47:53
  give me a lot of the same things.
• 47:55
  So, you know, it's like, you're being fooled by this thing.
• 48:00
  It's imitating. It's not conscious, it's not an
• 48:03
  actual entity that has, like, you said, sentience Yeah.
• 48:11
  I do, I do always kind of look at the concept in Wonder,
• 48:14
  though. for instance, again, Star Trek, there's an episode
• 48:19
  where Data. The Android is.
• 48:26
  Having to in court, justify his existence and he has you know
• 48:34
  there's a defense case and a prosecution.
• 48:39
  Yeah, that's right here and basically it's settled that he
• 48:44
  is sentient based on like two out of three laws or something,
• 48:49
  something like that. And it's like, I could see where
• 48:56
  they were going with that and but in that series, like data
• 49:02
  was able to make decisions. And and make choices.
• 49:08
  For instance, he chose to have a cat for some reason.
• 49:15
  His quest he had a desire to be human but again there's
• 49:20
  different aspects to this. You could argue it's in his
• 49:23
  programming and he says this a lot is in its programming to
• 49:26
  learn to have a desire to become more human.
• 49:28
  That's written into his code. And that's kind of key with what
• 49:33
  we've just been saying. I know you touched on that.
• 49:34
  It's like you could be programmed, you could program at
• 49:37
  AI, too. Have a quest for sentience but
• 49:44
  it will never achieve it, but you could program it to try and
• 49:50
  find it. That's interesting.
• 49:55
  It is like how would it go about trying to find it?
• 50:00
  I just I don't think that the way that we understand sentience
• 50:06
  is possible for a machine to achieve because I don't know, it
• 50:12
  just seems like Again, the thing that's missing seems to be that
• 50:19
  thing that you connect to on a psychedelic or a near-death
• 50:24
  experience or toward to have spirituality, you know, the
• 50:27
  questions of whether or not life exists after those.
• 50:31
  I think are the main ingredients that are missing from something
• 50:35
  that's just sort of using code to mimic what we think.
• 50:39
  Sentience might look like. Because again, it's just we're
• 50:43
  just modeling and off of Like the information that's already
• 50:46
  available to us. So again like you were saying in
• 50:49
  50 or 100 years AI. It's probably just going to be a
• 50:54
  situation where it can really accurately represent like the
• 50:59
  current generation of human intelligence because again, I
• 51:04
  don't think you can just like inject sentience or inject
• 51:08
  Consciousness into something. I mean, we're sort of
• 51:10
  experimenting with that with crisper, but I think that's more
• 51:13
  of like a like a DNA. Population are still not able
• 51:17
  to, like really inject Consciousness into something
• 51:20
  that doesn't previously have. It was Christopher.
• 51:24
  Christopher is like this weird experimental program where we
• 51:30
  are. Starting to sort of mess with
• 51:32
  jeans and it seems where we're going to be able to sort of have
• 51:37
  what they call designer babies. We're so, you know, my, you
• 51:43
  know, my fiance is pregnant or And we want to have a child that
• 51:47
  has blue eyes brown hair and it's never going to have a
• 51:53
  receding hairline. We want it to be a certain
• 51:56
  height, we wanted to have, you know, a certain amount of body
• 52:00
  hair, you want like its hands. To be a certain size like every
• 52:03
  single aspect of of a human, you can sort of design almost like a
• 52:07
  create a character in the video game or something.
• 52:11
  So, using these weird genetic modifications that we learned by
• 52:14
  mapping the The human genome, we're going to be able to, like,
• 52:19
  I guess at least hypothetically create a certain type of person
• 52:25
  and that doesn't just extend to physical attributes.
• 52:30
  The scary part is it could potentially extend to
• 52:34
  personality traits, intelligence level, so say you have a lot of
• 52:38
  money, you're a rich family or your like if you want to say
• 52:42
  like the top 1%, they Could potentially just Excel far past
• 52:47
  us with the finances to be able to have children who are far
• 52:52
  more intelligent. They come out the womb knowing
• 52:54
  quantum mechanics or something like that.
• 52:58
  It's only possible to like create a child from the lab
• 53:03
  that's more intelligent theoretically by by altering the
• 53:10
  genetic sequence of right. You know that's key which is
• 53:15
  yeah. That's that's the key.
• 53:16
  So it's like well we discover when we map the human genome was
• 53:19
  the possibility, or at least like the hypothesis, the
• 53:23
  hypothesis that this is a result of the technology. so, this begs
• 53:27
  the question though because While you could have all the
• 53:31
  money in the world to pay for genetic manipulation.
• 53:37
  At the same time, you still have to have good genes in the first
• 53:40
  place and that's a lottery. That's a lottery that well, it
• 53:44
  is good. Edit the genes though.
• 53:46
  Then you can create good. How do you know?
• 53:48
  I'm not really felt like to welcome.
• 53:50
  I'm sorry, I gotta go, but I guess theoretically like, you
• 53:53
  can literally create a child with good genes.
• 53:56
  You don't have to wait for for that chance and it could be
• 54:00
  amazing too because then you might have the opportunity to
• 54:02
  say sense that baby a child is going to have schizophrenia or
• 54:07
  some sort of autistic Tendencies.
• 54:09
  And then you can maybe like eliminate that from their
• 54:13
  Sequence. So there's also good in some of
• 54:15
  these Technologies potentially. But who knows what the earlier,
• 54:19
  man. Like we don't usually use
• 54:21
  technology and like the best most wise ways, especially,
• 54:24
  initially Bingo, and that's what I want to explore right now, I
• 54:29
  think that's terrifying. What do you think it's
• 54:33
  terrifying to? And I really do because we
• 54:35
  again, like I said earlier, we don't have the wisdom and the
• 54:39
  spiritual intelligence to be able to use these Technologies.
• 54:42
  He's in a way where it's going to say benefit all of humanity
• 54:47
  benefit, all the animal kingdom benefit, all of nature.
• 54:50
  We're already doing things that are destroying everything around
• 54:54
  us. All of the important aspects of
• 54:56
  Nature and the animal kingdom of that, we rely on these symbiotic
• 55:00
  relationships that we have with plants and trees.
• 55:03
  I mean, just to name one, we're just destroying the natural
• 55:07
  world. So to think that somehow that's
• 55:10
  going to change, actually, maybe and this is where my little
• 55:14
  optimism comes in, with a i, if we so, in my opinion, Evolution
• 55:21
  is essentially the evolution of Consciousness, if you look at
• 55:25
  Evolution on the planet, you know, we are supposedly the most
• 55:29
  evolved beings on the planet. We have the highest level in the
• 55:32
  highest ceiling of Consciousness.
• 55:34
  Same with other animals that are dominant in their, in their
• 55:36
  environments. Dolphins, orcas things like
• 55:39
  that. They have this really high level
• 55:40
  of intelligence and Consciousness that allows them
• 55:43
  to succeed in their environment. So if you extrapolate the idea
• 55:47
  of evolution being like a heightened level of
• 55:51
  Consciousness, you would think that an artificial intelligence
• 55:55
  that is far, more Superior to humans would have a higher level
• 55:59
  of that Consciousness. And in my experience, when I
• 56:03
  raise my level of Consciousness via psychedelics or spiritual
• 56:06
  experience, what comes into my my being is lessons of love,
• 56:11
  unity saving and preserving nature, and this and that.
• 56:15
  So if you think that an AI having a higher level of
• 56:19
  consciousness, this is going to be tapping into that that love
• 56:22
  and the wisdom that were that were not imparting in ourselves
• 56:27
  and that we don't have. Then maybe AI is the key to
• 56:31
  guiding Us in the right direction as to how we use our
• 56:34
  technology and how we use the things that we're doing in a
• 56:37
  more like wise and cohesive way that will benefit not just like
• 56:42
  the individual, but the collective in nature, That's
• 56:46
  true. If a, I was programmed purely,
• 56:50
  for the purpose of survival is going to give whatever answers
• 56:56
  are going to give us the better, better chance of survival.
• 57:00
  So anything is scary, is a, I can be and is intermittent, it
• 57:05
  all comes down to humans. It always comes down to that.
• 57:08
  Its intention. If we program it in the right
• 57:10
  way, it will help us if we program it to destroy us, it
• 57:14
  will do that. It will do whatever we ask.
• 57:16
  Ask it to do. And that's kind of the whole
• 57:19
  point of this isn't it. If we want AI to be our
• 57:22
  Salvation, we have to be our own salvation.
• 57:25
  We have to stop destroying ourselves.
• 57:30
  Always comes back to the individual.
• 57:31
  Always comes back to the man in the mirror.
• 57:33
  Like Michael Jackson, said absolutely.
• 57:36
  Let's actually talk about ndes because we're I could talk to
• 57:41
  you all day as you know, but the hot, the topic is supposed to be
• 57:45
  Indies but God damn I love, I love these conversations.
• 57:49
  One of the things I found in my in my studies of ndes is that
• 57:54
  some argue that they are sort of a profound form of
• 57:58
  depersonalization with a subsequent loss of identity,
• 58:02
  including a feeling of Detachment and unreality.
• 58:04
  Now you touched on this a little bit with the um, Psychedelic
• 58:09
  stuff and we certainly spoken about this on previous shows
• 58:12
  before. But what do you make of this
• 58:14
  idea that near-death experiences are a form of depersonalization?
• 58:19
  I like that description because it's like you're moving beyond
• 58:23
  the individual ego and you're merging with something that's
• 58:26
  beyond you. Something that involves a
• 58:28
  collective you know whether it be a collective unconscious and
• 58:32
  look jungian terms where you're connecting with like this,
• 58:36
  Morpho genetic Uh that that binds all of us, you know, that
• 58:40
  thing that we tap into, I like to kind of describe it as like
• 58:44
  you know our own human consciousness is like a drop,
• 58:47
  you know. And when we die like that drop
• 58:50
  gets put back into the ocean of Consciousness.
• 58:53
  It's like this thing that we all tap into and that we all share.
• 58:58
  But it's it's so interesting. How again, you can get there
• 59:02
  through psychedelics, you can get there through near-death
• 59:04
  experience. It's like your or tapping into
• 59:06
  this is over. Find thing.
• 59:09
  This thing that went like the deeper you dive into, it seems
• 59:13
  to have an intelligence. It seems to have like an
• 59:16
  intention with some of these near-death experiences to.
• 59:19
  Like the, I talked to, like I said this dude named Bill letson
• 59:23
  and he, he was traveling through this, like, this spatial
• 59:28
  dimension of colorful stars and then he landed in some kind of
• 59:33
  an area. And he said there were beings
• 59:35
  there and they were so happy to see.
• 59:38
  See him and they seemed to know who he was and they said, one of
• 59:42
  the most intriguing things about them is they had these giant
• 59:46
  smiles and he's big bright eyes, and they all looked at each
• 59:50
  other and they were giggling and laughing.
• 59:52
  And they pointed at him and they said hi.
• 59:53
  He doesn't remember us, which is like so crazy, you know, like
• 59:58
  it's possible that like what you're really experiencing from
• 1:00:04
  a psychedelic or a near-death experience is literally death.
• 1:00:08
  This or like an experience of what happens when you do die or
• 1:00:12
  like a maybe like a merging or like again one foot in the door,
• 1:00:16
  one foot out the door because I've always considered doing
• 1:00:19
  psychedelics as death practice because that's what it feels
• 1:00:21
  like. It really really does feel that
• 1:00:23
  way because you are losing like when you say depersonalization
• 1:00:28
  you are losing a sense of yourself.
• 1:00:31
  They call it ego death or ego disillusion, sometimes you
• 1:00:34
  forget who you are you forget your name.
• 1:00:36
  You forget who the people around you?
• 1:00:38
  You are like you literally lose all sense of who and what you
• 1:00:41
  are and that can be a very scary feeling when you do have that a
• 1:00:46
  lot of times people fight against it and they fight to
• 1:00:49
  sort of hold onto their identity and maintain who they are and
• 1:00:53
  what they Define themselves as. But when you surrender to that
• 1:00:57
  experience, then what happens is like on the other side of that
• 1:01:01
  is that merging with like the thing that binds us that the
• 1:01:05
  Consciousness, the Transcendence Not a near-death experience, you
• 1:01:09
  don't have a choice on the Psychedelic, you do, you can
• 1:01:12
  hold on and you can control sort of how how much you surrender to
• 1:01:17
  what's happening to you and how much you're willing to listen to
• 1:01:20
  the lessons being taught to you. You have that that agency, but
• 1:01:24
  with a near-death experience, you don't have that choice.
• 1:01:27
  You're thrown directly into it. And you're basically at, you
• 1:01:32
  know, the whim of, you know, whatever entities or beings you
• 1:01:35
  may encounter, you know, within that Realm.
• 1:01:40
  It's terrifying. It truly is but also it's
• 1:01:43
  exciting. Just a bit like being in the
• 1:01:47
  unknown. In general.
• 1:01:48
  It's just a fun place to be. I spoke about this in the
• 1:01:53
  beginning, the intro to near-death experiences.
• 1:01:56
  But what do you make of this idea that a near-death
• 1:02:00
  experience is a defense mechanism to evade a frightening
• 1:02:04
  reality such as a life-threatening event, Or.
• 1:02:10
  You know, a way of kind of evading the situation now,
• 1:02:15
  something that we know for a fact happens when you go through
• 1:02:19
  a major incident is that your body goes into shock.
• 1:02:23
  And the reason for that is that I suppose, if you were to
• 1:02:25
  actually feel that pain, that moment, I mean, I suppose it's
• 1:02:30
  possible. You could succumb to the pain
• 1:02:31
  and die as a result pain if that's even possible.
• 1:02:35
  So your body protects you. Is it amazing thing about the
• 1:02:38
  body? It always predict protection, no
• 1:02:41
  matter what you're dealing with. Your body will protect you and
• 1:02:44
  that's why you don't feel the pain, straight away, your brain,
• 1:02:47
  recognizes it. And when you acknowledge
• 1:02:49
  eventually you'll come out of shock and you will you'll feel
• 1:02:52
  that but at the same time your body protects you from the
• 1:02:56
  majority of it as it begins the healing process.
• 1:03:00
  So what do you make of the concept that near-death
• 1:03:01
  experience is the body's way of protecting you?
• 1:03:06
  I don't buy it for a few reasons, one, okay?
• 1:03:09
  So you can think of this in terms of like say you're you're
• 1:03:12
  hiking Mount Everest's. Alright, and you're about to
• 1:03:14
  freeze to death, what happens is your mind and your body like it
• 1:03:18
  releases the necessary chemicals to both heat your body up and
• 1:03:23
  make you super happy. So that like you're saying that
• 1:03:27
  sort of like defense mechanism happens.
• 1:03:30
  That's why I like if you hike Everest a lot of times like
• 1:03:33
  you'll see naked smiling corpses because like they want to take
• 1:03:36
  off their clothes because they're their body, heat is
• 1:03:39
  Raising, and they get super euphoric and very happy now.
• 1:03:43
  These are biological mechanisms so I'll bring up an example of
• 1:03:48
  his name is dr. Edmund Alexander.
• 1:03:50
  So he's a neurobiologist and a like a neuroscientist and he had
• 1:03:55
  a neurosurgeon, what would you call it?
• 1:03:59
  It was like a neurodegenerative disease where he was in a coma
• 1:04:05
  for like two weeks and he had a bunch of doctors come in and
• 1:04:10
  like basically judge where he was at and in his recovery.
• 1:04:13
  She in this coma and he was determined to have no brain
• 1:04:17
  function at all. Nothing.
• 1:04:20
  There was no synapses going off. Like he was alive because he was
• 1:04:23
  he was on a respirator and they were keeping him alive, but he
• 1:04:26
  had no brain activity. And during this time, he had
• 1:04:32
  like one of the most famous and pronounced insane near-death
• 1:04:35
  experiences of all time. He wrote a book about it too.
• 1:04:39
  So In order to be a defense mechanism, it would seem that
• 1:04:43
  your biological synapses would have to be firing in a way where
• 1:04:48
  like it's your biology. It's either your brain
• 1:04:50
  chemistry. Something about your body is
• 1:04:53
  working and responding to the atmosphere, or like the stimuli
• 1:04:56
  of your your external, reality, your environment.
• 1:04:59
  But in this guy's case, in an end in a lot of near-death
• 1:05:01
  experience cases. Your brain is completely gone.
• 1:05:05
  You're not like, under brain scans.
• 1:05:09
  Like, you can see that your brain isn't firing off.
• 1:05:11
  It's not having any sort of internal or external experience.
• 1:05:14
  Yet people come back with this insane story about what they,
• 1:05:19
  what they went through. So it begs the question.
• 1:05:21
  Like if you're not there, who went through this experience and
• 1:05:25
  that what happened? Who was it?
• 1:05:27
  That had this experience and how on Earth did it happen?
• 1:05:31
  It's gotta be. The sole wasn't it?
• 1:05:33
  Something like that. Whatever it is that you connect
• 1:05:36
  to that exists Beyond life. The thing that we are blind to
• 1:05:40
  the thing that we cannot Not see, but that we can access via
• 1:05:43
  near-death experience meditation psychedelics looks like just the
• 1:05:48
  process of death for a second. I mean, you'll put your body
• 1:05:51
  dies. We all know that your body dies
• 1:05:53
  it breaks down, you know, it ceases to be, but whatever
• 1:05:59
  reason. You're like for his, a good
• 1:06:04
  example, when someone dies of natural causes it, just happens
• 1:06:08
  randomly. Now, it's was understandable
• 1:06:10
  that the body breaks down and dies when it dies, for example,
• 1:06:15
  heart attack, or after a long illness or something like that,
• 1:06:18
  you know, your body, just Submachine eventually, machine
• 1:06:21
  just, it just can't keep up with it anymore.
• 1:06:23
  It's going to buckle. Sometimes you get lucky.
• 1:06:27
  We've not too cool. As is everything can be totally
• 1:06:30
  right and then just boom gone. And it's sudden.
• 1:06:38
  So of course let your body and you say natural causes, it'll be
• 1:06:40
  like, you know, there's a like if you die of cancer, you don't
• 1:06:44
  die of cancer, you die of illness related to it.
• 1:06:48
  So like whatever your body goes through hypothermia or it goes
• 1:06:51
  through some illness breaks down dies.
• 1:06:54
  But the cancer or whatever the illness was, was the kind of
• 1:06:58
  instigator of that process. With like a natural death.
• 1:07:02
  I mean it's there's no instigator per se, it's just it
• 1:07:07
  happens. So it was a heart attack your
• 1:07:10
  body's fine I mean you get there there's been so many instances
• 1:07:13
  of someone having being perfectly healthy and then just
• 1:07:18
  suddenly boom heart attack, done dead, that's it so that's the
• 1:07:24
  body aspect to it. You look at the conscious
• 1:07:29
  consciousness. It's scientifically proven that
• 1:07:34
  when you die there exists, energy around a body.
• 1:07:37
  That's something that's been tracked with science which
• 1:07:40
  scientific studies go. Look it up, I'm not making it
• 1:07:42
  up. I did this experience this
• 1:07:44
  research for. This is fact and what they
• 1:07:48
  might, they were marked is that the energy remains there for a
• 1:07:51
  certain period of time and then it dissipates it get leaves
• 1:07:54
  because of course, energy Never Dies, we die, but energy, Never
• 1:07:58
  Dies, it just transcends, it moves.
• 1:08:01
  So So if we consider that we are energy.
• 1:08:06
  And keep it within that sphere. Then we never die.
• 1:08:10
  We just move on or our Consciousness moves on, but the
• 1:08:15
  body dies. Therefore, bringing it back to
• 1:08:19
  near death experiences, that could then explain why we're
• 1:08:21
  able to have those experiences and retain those experiences
• 1:08:24
  because we are energy. And we are able to retain that
• 1:08:28
  in a way, that doesn't make sense for human being because
• 1:08:33
  We're Limited. By our experiences in the human
• 1:08:36
  body. If you know, I'm trying to go
• 1:08:38
  with this, maybe I'm just not explaining this very well.
• 1:08:40
  It's one of those occurrences where I know what I mean, but
• 1:08:44
  the words Escape me. I guess what I'm trying to say
• 1:08:48
  is that when you What am I doing?
• 1:08:53
  The soul to be is an all-knowing all-powerful being that has no
• 1:08:58
  limitations but human beings have limitations.
• 1:09:01
  I guess that's what I'm trying to say.
• 1:09:03
  So it will make sense that the conscious is able to experience.
• 1:09:10
  You know, profound experiences and then come back and report on
• 1:09:13
  that. But then the human body is, it's
• 1:09:16
  a machine, isn't it? So course, there's no activity.
• 1:09:18
  If you're in a coma, But then, at the same time shouldn't that
• 1:09:24
  be? Because I would have thought
• 1:09:26
  that it would be a lot like dreaming and of course your
• 1:09:28
  brain does something when you're dreaming.
• 1:09:31
  So why not? When you're experiencing a
• 1:09:34
  near-death experience? Dreaming is a really interesting
• 1:09:38
  way to talk about this stuff because man would you look at
• 1:09:43
  like a dream? You are gone in there.
• 1:09:48
  Ricky Gervais sense we have a dream like you are done.
• 1:09:52
  You're out your beer, shut down, you're not dead but you're for
• 1:09:56
  all tent, for all intents and purposes.
• 1:09:58
  You know, you're gone yet you're having an experience.
• 1:10:02
  So again, who is it? That's having this experience.
• 1:10:06
  Is that the mind of the sleeper? Is it the mind of the dreamer
• 1:10:11
  and if so like what in the world is that even like what's that
• 1:10:13
  even implying? Wisdom Traditions would call it
• 1:10:17
  like the higher self or something.
• 1:10:19
  You know, this thing that you were referring to that sort of
• 1:10:22
  exists, it's connected to us. It's sort of Tethered to our
• 1:10:25
  individuality but it's part of the collective as well.
• 1:10:31
  And it brings to mind another thing that that we don't have
• 1:10:38
  any real definition for and I think it is the thing that
• 1:10:41
  tethers us to our higher self. And I think that is love You
• 1:10:46
  know, we really don't have a solid definition of what love is
• 1:10:50
  and to me love with the capital L is like that thing that we're
• 1:10:54
  tapping into, it's that thing that drives us and motivates us
• 1:10:58
  the basis of all life. You know what the wisdom?
• 1:11:01
  Traditions would say is God and I think that's, that's the key
• 1:11:05
  foundational aspect of where we're going and what we're
• 1:11:08
  doing. I'm going to run through some
• 1:11:12
  stats and other MD Journal stuff, and all that, and we'll
• 1:11:17
  see where we end up with this rabbit hole.
• 1:11:21
  Botox Coupee, the experience in which a person sees their body
• 1:11:27
  from the outside while still awake studies that I read
• 1:11:31
  indicated that. Anna Tosca p is a psychological
• 1:11:34
  disorder. It can occur as a symptom of
• 1:11:38
  schizophrenia and epilepsy. So essentially you're awake, you
• 1:11:43
  see you outside of yourself. Do you make of that?
• 1:11:49
  Saying, it's like a psychological disorder, seems
• 1:11:52
  like a really convenient way to do it, you know what I mean?
• 1:11:56
  You know, I read this book called what's it called, awake?
• 1:12:00
  I think it's called by dr. Bruce Grayson, who was one of
• 1:12:04
  the like foremost leading doctors, who are studying
• 1:12:07
  near-death experiences and he had situations where people
• 1:12:10
  would. For instance, there was a woman
• 1:12:14
  who overdosed and she was completely gone.
• 1:12:16
  She was again you know in a coma like a lot like a lot of these
• 1:12:19
  people. Alar and he was out in the
• 1:12:22
  waiting room. Speaking with her roommate and
• 1:12:26
  earlier in the day, he had spilled mustard on his tie.
• 1:12:31
  So he had a little mustard stain on his tie and he was having a
• 1:12:33
  conversation with this roommate. So when he went back into the
• 1:12:38
  room at a later date, I think it may have been the same day woman
• 1:12:43
  who had overdose was awake. And she had said that she left
• 1:12:46
  her body during this entire coma.
• 1:12:49
  And she said, she had floated out into the waiting room and
• 1:12:53
  she was able to recollect specifics of what they were
• 1:12:56
  saying, and he had his jacket closed at this time when he saw
• 1:13:01
  her, because he had a mustard stain on his tie.
• 1:13:03
  So he's like, I'm just going to close my, my lab coat.
• 1:13:05
  You know, the white coats that they wear and she pointed out
• 1:13:09
  without seeing it. She said, you had a mustard
• 1:13:11
  stain on your tie. I saw it.
• 1:13:13
  And he was like, what? Like this was one of the
• 1:13:16
  experiences that led him to like dedicate his career to looking
• 1:13:19
  at near. Death experiences.
• 1:13:20
  So you see there's plenty of stories of people are like
• 1:13:24
  getting surgery or something like that and they're on
• 1:13:26
  anesthesia and they leave their body and they're up in the
• 1:13:28
  corner of the room and they're looking down, there was one,
• 1:13:33
  there's one situation that was interesting.
• 1:13:34
  I think it was in the same book actually where there was a
• 1:13:38
  surgeon. He came into the room and he was
• 1:13:41
  doing his thing, and he was getting ready.
• 1:13:43
  She had already been this woman. Had already been put under
• 1:13:46
  anesthesia and When she was. Asleep under anesthesia.
• 1:13:53
  She had said she left her body and one of the things that she
• 1:13:57
  reported looking at and seeing was, while he was in the room,
• 1:14:01
  getting ready for surgery, she said he was like, quote,
• 1:14:04
  flapping his arms, like he was a chicken like sort of like this
• 1:14:09
  and and the the Doctor Who was studying the near-death
• 1:14:13
  experience and talking to her about it was like, what?
• 1:14:16
  Like, that's strange. So he went and talked to this
• 1:14:18
  doctor and he asked, you know, Like is there were you doing
• 1:14:22
  this motion at all? And he found that this doctor.
• 1:14:26
  One of the things that he does when he comes into the room is
• 1:14:28
  to keep everything sanitary. He puts his gloves on and he
• 1:14:32
  doesn't touch anything. He points with his elbows to the
• 1:14:36
  things that he wants his, like his helping staff to do, whether
• 1:14:40
  he wants them to go and get a tool, or go and do something.
• 1:14:43
  He was doing this and pointing with his elbows.
• 1:14:45
  So, again, these just unexplainable things that people
• 1:14:49
  who are leaving their Bodies, see and witness it.
• 1:14:52
  I mean how do you make sense of that?
• 1:14:56
  Let's continue on this wave. A he-he'll Tosca P.
• 1:15:02
  I think that's how you sort of put out this here.
• 1:15:04
  Tosca, pshe. And then or Tosca P.
• 1:15:07
  Here Comes could p, is the encounter with one's own
• 1:15:11
  doppelganger? Who appears as an alter ego
• 1:15:15
  patients may experience themselves to be localized at
• 1:15:18
  the position of the body? This is basically what you were
• 1:15:20
  talking about. It is difficult for the patient
• 1:15:24
  to decide. And whether or not their self is
• 1:15:26
  occupied within the physical body or the itah, skip or
• 1:15:31
  autoscopic body. The illusion.
• 1:15:33
  This blew my mind, when I was researching this, I didn't
• 1:15:35
  expect to kind of come across this.
• 1:15:36
  Like, obviously, I consider these concept before, but I
• 1:15:41
  didn't realize it was actual names for this.
• 1:15:44
  So this is a bit different. This is like indicating a
• 1:15:47
  suppose. I guess it's more like a strip.
• 1:15:52
  It could be astral projection, it could be.
• 1:15:58
  Yeah, like a doll turned, her version of yourself.
• 1:16:01
  I you know it's funny. I've had like dreams before
• 1:16:04
  which I don't know if this is the same thing but like dreams
• 1:16:08
  where I felt like I either I saw myself or I saw friends but they
• 1:16:13
  didn't look like themselves. Like I felt in my heart that
• 1:16:17
  they were the same person but they're not, they look
• 1:16:21
  different. They feel different somehow
• 1:16:24
  can't explain it. What do you make of this?
• 1:16:28
  There could be a situation where like you're experiencing
• 1:16:32
  something on your near-death experience.
• 1:16:34
  That feels like more real than this real and this is something
• 1:16:39
  that I feel on psychedelics all the time.
• 1:16:41
  Every time I have a deep psychedelic experience, it feels
• 1:16:44
  like what I'm tapping into is more real than this reality
• 1:16:48
  here. So maybe what they're
• 1:16:49
  experiencing is like a disconnect, you know, because
• 1:16:51
  they feel as if they're, they're hitting like the Ultimate
• 1:16:54
  Reality. But then they're looking down
• 1:16:56
  their body and they're saying like wait, Is that me, like am I
• 1:16:58
  in there? But I'm also out here like, how
• 1:17:01
  is this, you know? And it might create some sort of
• 1:17:03
  like confusion or situation, where you're encountering that.
• 1:17:09
  In a paper published by Jeffrey long MD.
• 1:17:13
  It is stated that near-death experiences are reported by
• 1:17:16
  about 17 percent of those who nearly died.
• 1:17:19
  So huge that istic when you really think about it.
• 1:17:22
  And he's have been reported by children.
• 1:17:25
  Adults scientists, Physicians, priests ministers, religious
• 1:17:30
  people, and atheists from around the world.
• 1:17:32
  I just wanted to read that because I think that's
• 1:17:34
  incredible. Basically, all different types
• 1:17:37
  of people and some of Of whom have every reason to question it
• 1:17:42
  and believe that it is not a real thing like it doesn't
• 1:17:44
  exist. That is very telling.
• 1:17:48
  I think while no 2nd's are the same, there are characteristic
• 1:17:54
  features that are commonly observed in ndes.
• 1:17:57
  These characteristics include a perception of seeing and hearing
• 1:18:02
  apart from the physical body passing on to, or through a
• 1:18:05
  tunnel encountering. A mystical light intense.
• 1:18:09
  And generally positive emotions, a revision of oneself like, you
• 1:18:16
  know, and one's own prior life experiences.
• 1:18:18
  So for instance, when I had guyot ring on my show, he spoke
• 1:18:23
  about being able to see lots of different things from his life
• 1:18:28
  all at once. You know, there's ability to
• 1:18:31
  expose have like An experience, we can see everything you see a
• 1:18:35
  movie sometimes, like going through everything in one's life
• 1:18:39
  at the same time, but being able to kind of unpack it and he
• 1:18:43
  expect, he said that his experience felt like two weeks.
• 1:18:50
  Even though it was, he was in a motorbike motorcycle accident
• 1:18:54
  and he was out for a few hours or an hour or something.
• 1:18:58
  That experience felt like two weeks for him as well as an
• 1:19:01
  interesting detail like how tight because I but I believe
• 1:19:06
  him. I don't know.
• 1:19:07
  I know, I know it's scientifically not possible but
• 1:19:09
  I don't know. I feel like that's real.
• 1:19:12
  Like when you look at the, if you look at time and we talked
• 1:19:15
  about this at the beginning of this, the show that the idea
• 1:19:17
  that time is not how we understand it.
• 1:19:20
  To be that's entirely possible within the constraints of and of
• 1:19:24
  that. If you, if you accept those
• 1:19:25
  rules of time and that's kind of key in, this is what rules have
• 1:19:28
  time to accept, what are your beliefs?
• 1:19:30
  It always comes down to that. But with that in mind it's every
• 1:19:35
  it's completely possible that you could for instance, freeze a
• 1:19:38
  moment in time and explore and be in that moment for years even
• 1:19:43
  and come back. And then it's like no time has
• 1:19:45
  passed. For everyone else.
• 1:19:51
  Also encountering, dead relatives deceased, loved ones
• 1:19:55
  and a chance to return to the Earthly life.
• 1:19:58
  Now, this is a big aspect to this.
• 1:20:00
  So I guess my question to you is is twofold, one is just kind of
• 1:20:04
  your thoughts on those various different types of near-death
• 1:20:09
  experiences but also that final one the choice to return.
• 1:20:16
  To the body. We hear about this a lot.
• 1:20:18
  We see it in movies. What do you make of that?
• 1:20:21
  The idea that you were given the choice to come back?
• 1:20:25
  It's a super interesting one because not all people do get
• 1:20:29
  that choice. Some people, your the autonomy
• 1:20:32
  and they're able to get that choice but like the guy I
• 1:20:35
  interviewed the lesson, he had the choice and he was like, hell
• 1:20:40
  no, I am not going back there. This is awesome.
• 1:20:43
  Like my friends, my family are here.
• 1:20:45
  Like this is the my home, you know, a lot of times they have a
• 1:20:49
  sense of being home and being where they, where they came from
• 1:20:52
  or where they were meant to be and they don't want to go back.
• 1:20:56
  But then whoever is the authority of the situation is
• 1:20:58
  like now you're going back and they send them back so it's like
• 1:21:03
  it's so strange to me whether or not you get the chance.
• 1:21:07
  Like what does that? What does that depend on?
• 1:21:08
  This is it does it really? Is it a part of like the Life
• 1:21:12
  review type of thing that you see in a lot of these spiritual
• 1:21:15
  traditions? Say like all after you die, you
• 1:21:18
  get this Life review, where you see, you know what, you've done,
• 1:21:21
  how much love you've given, how much damage you've done or
• 1:21:23
  whatever. So maybe it's part of that,
• 1:21:25
  maybe depending on what you do, if you have like, more work to
• 1:21:29
  do on this plane of existence because I think a lot of people
• 1:21:32
  do get that sense where it's like, no, it's not your time
• 1:21:35
  yet. Like you have things, you have
• 1:21:37
  to do down there before you're able to fully transition to up
• 1:21:40
  here. It just so happens that like you
• 1:21:41
  got a little taste of this because of an accident or
• 1:21:44
  because of something that happened.
• 1:21:46
  So maybe it's that which breaks a very important question
• 1:21:49
  because you tapped on something there that I've always wondered
• 1:21:52
  deeply, what do you make of when people were taken before their
• 1:21:56
  time? For example, tragic, accident,
• 1:21:58
  someone passes away, a car accident at the age of like 16
• 1:22:03
  or a child passes away, in really tragic circumstances.
• 1:22:07
  Whatever there's been no time there for that.
• 1:22:10
  Human being to have a human experience too.
• 1:22:15
  Really, you know, learn the lessons that need to be learned,
• 1:22:19
  what do you make of that? So the way I like to think about
• 1:22:22
  this is through like a Buddhist Karma cosmology.
• 1:22:27
  Okay. Where you live?
• 1:22:30
  It's sort of like you have this higher self that soul that
• 1:22:33
  spirit and what that Spirit does is it lives multiple
• 1:22:37
  incarnations. According to what it's karma is
• 1:22:41
  and a lot of people consider a Karma to be like, I do something
• 1:22:44
  bad, and then I'm going to get something bad.
• 1:22:45
  And return. Okay, and it's a cool idea, but
• 1:22:49
  the original idea of what karma is is more along the lines of
• 1:22:53
  like, your life's work. You know what, your work is, in
• 1:22:56
  this biological form, that's going to serve your higher self,
• 1:22:59
  or serve your soul, whatever it is that may be.
• 1:23:03
  So in the form of like, say a child, who gets hit by a car,
• 1:23:07
  tragically dies, it's said that weld that that Incarnation had
• 1:23:14
  finished its karma. And now it's time for that
• 1:23:17
  Incarnation to move on. If, you know, for that higher
• 1:23:20
  self or that soldats inhabiting that biological form to move on
• 1:23:23
  to the next realm. And then to eventually be sent
• 1:23:26
  back down into another Incarnation to complete a
• 1:23:29
  different set of, you know, karmic resolution or something
• 1:23:32
  along those lines. So that's the way I like to
• 1:23:34
  think about that. Yeah, I like to think about that
• 1:23:38
  sunset too, but I suppose then it comes down to the whole
• 1:23:41
  question of year. Do you believe in reincarnation
• 1:23:43
  such? And I think if you're talking
• 1:23:45
  about Karma certainly I would agree with that.
• 1:23:50
  But what you touched on there was an interesting concept.
• 1:23:52
  And I know that when you say life's work, you mean more about
• 1:23:54
  like the lessons of individual has to learn in each what each
• 1:24:00
  lifetime. But I also like to think about
• 1:24:02
  like what what value human being has caused.
• 1:24:05
  We all have value, we can all affect each other in a profound
• 1:24:08
  way and you know, you think about sometimes people would
• 1:24:11
  dedicate their lives to hurting others.
• 1:24:13
  Other people, dedicate their lives to helping.
• 1:24:15
  Others all comes down to choice. And I wonder sometimes if the
• 1:24:21
  people that choose the wrong path, so to speak, if they get a
• 1:24:28
  chance to for redemption in other lives times, but then see
• 1:24:35
  a lot of being a human is down to circumstance though.
• 1:24:38
  And that the cards you're dealt. You often hear that Concept in
• 1:24:42
  life, you get different given the cards you're dealt.
• 1:24:45
  And in this up to you to work with those cards and makes
• 1:24:49
  Something out of that. And sometimes when you look at
• 1:24:53
  people, especially when you look at like extreme scenarios, like
• 1:24:56
  let's say, like a serial killer or something like that.
• 1:24:58
  And you often see it, hear people say, oh, well, you know,
• 1:25:01
  they would never really given a chance in life, you know, they
• 1:25:04
  experience really terrible things from, from, from birth
• 1:25:07
  and you know, they were always destined for this path but then
• 1:25:11
  other people have similar experiences and then turn out to
• 1:25:14
  be wonderful people or live. Normal lives equally sometimes
• 1:25:19
  you have people that have Wonderful upbringings.
• 1:25:23
  And then just turning to horrible people, I think correct
• 1:25:25
  me if I'm wrong, possibly Jeffrey Dahmer.
• 1:25:27
  Had a scenario like that, where his childhood was quite normal
• 1:25:30
  and conventional. But then he turned into, like
• 1:25:33
  this horrific serial killer point that I'm trying to raise
• 1:25:39
  with this. Is that there's no like, set
• 1:25:44
  kind of, you know, like oh well if you're born into this, this
• 1:25:47
  is what your life will become. It comes down to choice, but it
• 1:25:50
  also comes down to Two. The feelings, a human being has
• 1:25:57
  and you can argue that it's just mental illness.
• 1:26:03
  That could be an argument. You could say, oh well if
• 1:26:06
  someone goes up to become that and goes up to only ever do bad
• 1:26:11
  things in life, then maybe it's a result of that.
• 1:26:16
  But then there were people who definitely aren't ill.
• 1:26:19
  They're just bad people which then begs the question.
• 1:26:22
  Like, how can you be born Eve? Born a bad person.
• 1:26:27
  It takes someone like, okay, this slide down, controversial
• 1:26:31
  group, but like a Dolph Hitler. If you take that human being,
• 1:26:37
  you can argue that all of the decisions he made as a human
• 1:26:41
  being all kind of built up from one area over time and let him
• 1:26:48
  down the route that he went on. But then there's, you know,
• 1:26:52
  there's like questions of like maybe it would have been all
• 1:26:54
  different, you know what, if he did got into art school, you
• 1:26:58
  know, it's the old joke of maybe it would have been very
• 1:27:00
  different for him, who knows? Maybe he always had that each
• 1:27:04
  hatred in his heart and it just manifested itself in the way
• 1:27:07
  that it did, Lay It Down the Line.
• 1:27:10
  I guess what I'm trying to say with this, is that like You're
• 1:27:15
  talking about Redemption and Karma and everything like that.
• 1:27:21
  How is it possible for a human being to have any control over
• 1:27:24
  that? That's the history, right?
• 1:27:27
  Like why is one person's karmic path?
• 1:27:31
  Like A Nazi prison guard and then the other person's karmic
• 1:27:35
  path is Mother Teresa you know and that's why I'd like you know
• 1:27:40
  I like to talk about like on our on my podcast we talk a lot
• 1:27:43
  about like the concept of there not being any thing that is ever
• 1:27:48
  done in the form of hate and we talk about Hitler in in regards
• 1:27:52
  to that but I think it's easier to talk.
• 1:27:55
  About it in the form of Like A Nazi prison guard.
• 1:27:57
  And this is a Jordan Pederson thing.
• 1:27:59
  If you ever listened to him speak, he talks a lot about this
• 1:28:02
  and it's like, Nazi prison guards were just people, you
• 1:28:07
  know, they were people that are born into a certain circumstance
• 1:28:10
  where they've gone down a path and they're like a result of
• 1:28:16
  their environment, you know, nobody thinks that they could
• 1:28:19
  become a Nazi prison guard until it happens because these things
• 1:28:22
  happen very, very slowly over time.
• 1:28:25
  And I think it's important for human development to understand
• 1:28:28
  that that Nazi prison guard. Part of him is in you, part of
• 1:28:34
  all of the evil that has ever been done throughout the world.
• 1:28:37
  It's in all of us and it's a matter of love.
• 1:28:41
  Again, like you said your choices, do you, do you choose
• 1:28:44
  to act on that and what determines that is there some
• 1:28:48
  sort of like deterministic like again if you want to go back to
• 1:28:51
  like the the spiritual Buddhist cosmology of Karma.
• 1:28:55
  Like, is there something that determines whether or not your
• 1:28:59
  karmic path leads in a direction of like evil or direction of
• 1:29:03
  love? And it's it's a really difficult
• 1:29:06
  Paradox to balance in your mind because you don't want to think
• 1:29:09
  that any of us are capable of these evil heinous acts but I
• 1:29:14
  think it's important to realize the humanity and everyone.
• 1:29:18
  And I understand that, you know, we do have the autonomy and the
• 1:29:22
  responsibility to make the right choice.
• 1:29:25
  Has to not turn into that and to maybe correct our karmic path.
• 1:29:28
  If it does end up being an evil one, this is why I think shows
• 1:29:32
  like The Walking Dead and the last of us more recent show are
• 1:29:36
  brilliant. I know people like to sell it
• 1:29:38
  are, it's called a zombies and other effects and that stuff the
• 1:29:41
  storyline is where it's at. Because He's a perfect for those
• 1:29:46
  shows are not about zombies. Those shows are not about
• 1:29:50
  anything to do with the virus. Has any of that stuff?
• 1:29:52
  That's, that's neither here. Nor there.
• 1:29:54
  That's like a tiny part of it. Those shows you about human
• 1:29:57
  beings, The Human Experience in one of the very first episode
• 1:30:01
  spoilers of The Last of Us. It's set 20 years after the
• 1:30:08
  fact, you see the beginning of this outbreak and then 20 years
• 1:30:12
  later, you see, a man who's been through it all.
• 1:30:15
  And one of the lines, he says, he said this in a video game as
• 1:30:17
  well. I've been on both sides.
• 1:30:19
  What does that mean? I've been the good guy and the
• 1:30:21
  bad guy, but the way they tell the story in the way they imply
• 1:30:25
  is that he was a victim of circumstance of choices.
• 1:30:31
  But it was all to do was all over in the frame of survival.
• 1:30:35
  The Walking Dead really goes into detail with this,
• 1:30:40
  particularly in the later Seasons, when communities come
• 1:30:43
  together and they're accepting new people in.
• 1:30:45
  And one of the things, you know, when they're accepting people in
• 1:30:48
  and they say, like God, you know, we just have to be careful
• 1:30:51
  with this. But hey, we've all done things.
• 1:30:53
  We regret they all say that every single character says that
• 1:30:56
  because they've all had to do things.
• 1:30:58
  They regret and what they mean by that is killing of a human.
• 1:31:01
  Things in order to survive, they all know it's wrong, but they
• 1:31:06
  all had to do that for whatever reason to protect themselves
• 1:31:09
  because survival was the name of the game.
• 1:31:12
  Right now, we live in a society where survival is still the name
• 1:31:16
  of the game. But we have a society where
• 1:31:19
  there is Inability to sustain ourselves without resorting to
• 1:31:24
  violence. Now when you add scarcity into
• 1:31:28
  that framework, suddenly people do become violent, we saw a
• 1:31:33
  little glimpse of that in the beginning of the pandemic, when
• 1:31:37
  people are like going crazy over like, toilet rolls and stuff,
• 1:31:39
  which was hilarious but also I looked at that and I thought,
• 1:31:43
  wow, we just as bad as the media and the movies would have us
• 1:31:48
  believe we Panic. You know, not all of us, some of
• 1:31:53
  us don't panic. And some of us think it through
• 1:31:55
  and thing cock in a logical way, but we do panic, but then you
• 1:32:00
  see these amazing things that happen in nature.
• 1:32:03
  I want to move away from humans for a second, that kind of
• 1:32:06
  proves that there's this capacity for love, even in a
• 1:32:09
  moment of survival. For example, I saw something,
• 1:32:12
  Certainly where it was like a hamster in a cage.
• 1:32:16
  And there was another hamster with in the same cage, who was
• 1:32:19
  trapped within some sort of device, they devised it wasn't
• 1:32:22
  in pain or anything, but they devise a scenario where one of
• 1:32:28
  the hamsters could help the other hamster.
• 1:32:32
  And get them out but it would involve giving away some of
• 1:32:35
  their food and they chose to go down that path to save the other
• 1:32:39
  hamster. Even though.
• 1:32:44
  By giving some of its food. It haves its survival chances,
• 1:32:49
  it's still chose the route of selflessness.
• 1:32:53
  That's kind of the more positive aspect of this is this idea
• 1:32:55
  that, you know, you can choose to do the selfless thing even
• 1:32:58
  though it puts your life, a danger, or it essentially
• 1:33:01
  prevents you from continuing on. Interesting concept.
• 1:33:08
  What do you make of that? It brings to mind, there's this
• 1:33:12
  study and it wasn't like life and death, but it was a study on
• 1:33:15
  play and they had like these two rats.
• 1:33:19
  One was big one was little and the way that they play is it's
• 1:33:22
  like they fight. You know that most animals when
• 1:33:25
  they play and what they noticed is that the larger animal, and
• 1:33:30
  this is like, an infinite games versus finite game situation.
• 1:33:33
  There's a book by James Carr, swear.
• 1:33:34
  He goes over this and So what happens is the in order to keep
• 1:33:41
  the game playable and infinite the larger mouse, let's the
• 1:33:46
  smaller Mouse win like 30 to 40 percent of the time in order to
• 1:33:51
  maintain the the infinite game so that they continue to play
• 1:33:55
  because if the smaller Mouse loses every single time the
• 1:33:59
  smaller Mouse won't play anymore.
• 1:34:01
  Yeah, so it's almost like this weird loving like, Need to want
• 1:34:06
  and keep this game going where they interact.
• 1:34:10
  And it's just, you wouldn't think that animals have the
• 1:34:13
  capacity to do this, but they definitely do.
• 1:34:15
  And you can see it nature everywhere.
• 1:34:19
  There's a website called the near death, experience Research
• 1:34:22
  Foundation or nder F, which includes over 5,000 experiences
• 1:34:30
  and Counting for around the world.
• 1:34:32
  Should have raised this really earlier when we were talking
• 1:34:34
  about the abundance of experiences, they describe an ND
• 1:34:40
  as a lucid experience associated with perceive Consciousness,
• 1:34:44
  apart from the body occurring at the time of actual or
• 1:34:47
  threatened, Imminent death. Basically for I just share that
• 1:34:54
  with us but I found some interesting sort of studies that
• 1:34:58
  they've done off the back of like surveys and stuff.
• 1:35:03
  One of them and this speaks on the idea of heightened
• 1:35:05
  awareness. They did a survey conducted in
• 1:35:08
  2014 where they asked people, how did your highest level of
• 1:35:13
  Consciousness and alertness during the experience compared
• 1:35:17
  to your normal everyday A Consciousness and alertness of
• 1:35:21
  the 1122 people. Surveyed, 74 percent indicated
• 1:35:27
  that they had more Consciousness and alertness than normal 20%
• 1:35:32
  experience, normal Consciousness and alertness and 5.2% had less
• 1:35:36
  Consciousness and alertness than normal.
• 1:35:39
  The survey also asked people if your highest level of
• 1:35:41
  Consciousness and alertness during the experience was
• 1:35:45
  different from your normal, everyday, Consciousness and
• 1:35:48
  alertness, please. As explained in response to this
• 1:35:51
  question, people commonly reported that Consciousness
• 1:35:54
  during their experiences was clear, more aware and often
• 1:35:58
  associated with heightened awareness.
• 1:36:04
  Now this again touches on what we kind of spoke about earlier
• 1:36:09
  but it's like I guess what you were framing earlier about the
• 1:36:12
  idea that it's tapping into something that we are otherwise
• 1:36:17
  unaware of Maybe heightened abilities could be that.
• 1:36:23
  I hear a lot of time in the east of like your monks, supposedly
• 1:36:27
  doing these out-of-body experiences or like levitating
• 1:36:31
  and stuff. I don't know where I set on now,
• 1:36:32
  believe it when I see it, but at the same time, I mean alert.
• 1:36:40
  Here, it's backed by science. It's like this is people's
• 1:36:43
  experiences thousands of people if you know Experiencing the
• 1:36:50
  same thing and this is why I like because often I feel like
• 1:36:54
  in scenarios like this, it becomes a battle, it's science
• 1:36:57
  versus you know belief and I feel like the the two can work
• 1:37:02
  in tandem with each other, you know.
• 1:37:06
  I don't for a minute discount or discredit science or say, oh no,
• 1:37:10
  that's not. It couldn't be, this can be
• 1:37:11
  that. I think you should always be
• 1:37:12
  open to the possibility that hey sometimes things might just be
• 1:37:16
  stats and figures and that's just it.
• 1:37:18
  But there's a lot that science can't explain and there's a lot
• 1:37:21
  of things that you know and the amazing thing is there's many
• 1:37:24
  scientists out there that will sit and their eyes on a more
• 1:37:28
  philosophical level when it gets to that point and I think that's
• 1:37:33
  the best way to look at it is it's you know, will explain the
• 1:37:37
  majority of what we can expect explained with science and when
• 1:37:40
  we can't explain it anymore with science, That's when we start
• 1:37:44
  going into philosophy. One study reviewed by dr.
• 1:37:49
  Janice Holden found that many accounts of near-death
• 1:37:52
  experiences also reported out-of-body experiences, that
• 1:37:56
  accurately observed events that were completely unexpected by
• 1:37:59
  the people who had experienced the ndes.
• 1:38:02
  This further argues against ndes as being a result of illusory
• 1:38:07
  illusory memories originating, from what the ND, o ND ears
• 1:38:12
  might have experienced during a close brush with death This
• 1:38:17
  could imply that experiences could not have been produced
• 1:38:21
  from earlier memories, meaning the patients could have somehow
• 1:38:25
  been present and have witnessed events that occurred outside of
• 1:38:28
  themselves. And I thought this was important
• 1:38:30
  to kind of add in especially what we spoke about earlier,
• 1:38:34
  because it would be very easy to kind of discredit and say, oh
• 1:38:38
  this is just, you know, distortions of the brain.
• 1:38:40
  This is things that have happened before but equally, you
• 1:38:45
  know, when your I mean, you have experiences that Assumingly not
• 1:38:51
  possible. For example, I have dreamt the
• 1:38:53
  future before. I don't know how, but I've done
• 1:38:55
  it. And the weird thing about it is
• 1:38:58
  that how I knew that I did is that I dreamt since whatever I
• 1:39:03
  dreamt certain point in time. And then years later, it came
• 1:39:07
  into fruition. And I remembered, I had a memory
• 1:39:10
  of that dream years later. And I'm like, so basically was
• 1:39:14
  Deja Vu, but I dreamt it before. So, it's deja vu connected with
• 1:39:17
  the previous dream and it messed with my head.
• 1:39:20
  It's happened two or three times in my life, the to the standout
• 1:39:24
  was and I think I said this on the show before in my dreams
• 1:39:28
  episode, but I recount it here. So one of the experiences was I
• 1:39:32
  was in it. Girlfriend bedroom.
• 1:39:37
  When I was a teenager, I sat down on the bed, looked at the
• 1:39:39
  doorway and I was like, boom, it just hit me, but that was Less
• 1:39:46
  that I read. It was kind of the because it
• 1:39:48
  was the first time it happened. I kind of remember dreaming it,
• 1:39:52
  but I was also at all. Maybe it's just a job.
• 1:39:54
  Who's weird years later during a college course, I was sitting in
• 1:40:02
  class looking around the room and boom.
• 1:40:06
  Deja Vu. Hit me, but I would remembered
• 1:40:08
  having a dream of that years. Prior I was at.
• 1:40:11
  Wow. Okay, this is the second time
• 1:40:13
  this has happened. Now Something more to this.
• 1:40:18
  Visions in near-death experiences of people that are
• 1:40:24
  blind. Now this is really interesting
• 1:40:27
  including totally blind people from birth.
• 1:40:29
  Have been described in many case reports.
• 1:40:32
  This shows evidence that indeed, these are not a product of what
• 1:40:37
  ND ears would have expected to occur during a life-threatening
• 1:40:41
  event, and that perhaps more is at Play. now, I wanted to kind
• 1:40:48
  of explore this a little bit because if you've been born with
• 1:40:55
  blindness from death, and are able to make an account of
• 1:41:01
  things that you've never seen. This is an interesting path to
• 1:41:06
  quickly jump down, because it's like, we know that in the in the
• 1:41:11
  human, you know, existence a person is born, blind will never
• 1:41:14
  be able to see unfortunately but How are they able to then see
• 1:41:20
  things that they've never experienced or seen before?
• 1:41:24
  Cannot really? Explain in words, you know, but
• 1:41:29
  now they're able to because they've seen it outside of
• 1:41:32
  themselves. What do you make of this?
• 1:41:36
  Well, there, there seems to be a way of experiencing that.
• 1:41:40
  Is sort of on a higher level or maybe pushes past the senses and
• 1:41:47
  we interpret that and we come back down to this reality.
• 1:41:50
  And we try to describe it in terms of our senses and our
• 1:41:55
  language and all this, but it's a different thing because it's
• 1:41:58
  an experience that transcends, all of that, I've heard
• 1:42:01
  experiences of people who were blind and they say, smoked DMT
• 1:42:04
  or take, you know, mushrooms and they see in like the same types
• 1:42:09
  of visuals. Geometric patterns and shapes,
• 1:42:11
  and things like that. That I would see being the
• 1:42:14
  person who. Yeah, it's very interesting
• 1:42:16
  because it's like, you know, generally what happens when you
• 1:42:20
  take a psychedelic or at least if you do it in the way that I
• 1:42:23
  like to do it is you take the the substance put on some music
• 1:42:28
  or something in a dark area and you close your eyes and you see
• 1:42:32
  magnificent things and that'll happen whether or not your eyes
• 1:42:37
  can see or your eyes can't see. Because you're seeing in a
• 1:42:42
  different way. It's a Visionary experience, but
• 1:42:45
  not in the form of like, Optics in your eyes.
• 1:42:48
  It's like it's a different type of experience where you're
• 1:42:51
  you're having the experience of seeing something.
• 1:42:53
  But you're not physically seeing it with your eyes, which I guess
• 1:42:56
  would be how a blind person can, can perceive something under
• 1:42:59
  those types of situations amazing, isn't it?
• 1:43:04
  It is it really makes me think about this is so much, we don't
• 1:43:06
  know. There's so much.
• 1:43:08
  We don't know that we're not tapping into.
• 1:43:10
  To. And once we realize that it's
• 1:43:12
  going to Hey, who knows. Go back to AI, maybe that's what
• 1:43:16
  they'll help us. Realize all the things we don't
• 1:43:18
  realize that we don't know. That's why this experience has
• 1:43:22
  changed people's lives because they see something that could
• 1:43:26
  not exist. Like these things in the
• 1:43:29
  physicalist like scientific Paradigm that were brought up in
• 1:43:33
  cannot exist and then when you realize that they actually do
• 1:43:36
  exist because you can experience them, it's what I call the magic
• 1:43:39
  mushrooms because they are magic.
• 1:43:41
  Magic is real. It's just a few bites away.
• 1:43:47
  Just try to. It's been the ultimate salesman
• 1:43:49
  right now, I'll sell it forever. I've been employed by the
• 1:43:53
  mushrooms to spread their message.
• 1:43:56
  All right, Steve more things. Before I get into some of the
• 1:44:00
  more stats and well portion. It basically, the next stage of
• 1:44:05
  this show is I want to kind of actually start recounting
• 1:44:07
  people's near-death experiences because fun fact.
• 1:44:11
  Originally when I plan this show It was just going to be me and
• 1:44:14
  Josh sitting exploring it and that was it.
• 1:44:17
  But then I floated the idea on Reddit got a bunch of people
• 1:44:20
  reach out to me about wanting to share their experiences, I
• 1:44:23
  thought wow. Okay.
• 1:44:24
  I'm running with us and then also, as I was doing my studies,
• 1:44:27
  I just found lots of it accounts as you normally would.
• 1:44:30
  And, you know, I just thought I'd read out some of them on the
• 1:44:33
  show and maybe just get are both of our kind of thoughts on that.
• 1:44:38
  Anyway, let's continue with this.
• 1:44:40
  So the occurrence of a cardiac arrest. rest while under
• 1:44:44
  general, anesthesia is a combination of circumstances in
• 1:44:47
  which no memory from that time, should be possible and I've got
• 1:44:58
  an illustrative example here. We see if I can find that, hope
• 1:45:03
  I can find it. Might not be able to find it.
• 1:45:10
  Got it. I got it.
• 1:45:12
  Good thing I made titles. This is what the guy said.
• 1:45:18
  During my surgery, I felt myself lift from my body and go above
• 1:45:22
  the operating table. The doctor told me later that
• 1:45:25
  they accept my heart open and stopped for a long time.
• 1:45:30
  And they had a great amount of difficulty.
• 1:45:33
  Getting my heart started, again, that must have been when I left
• 1:45:37
  my body because I could see the doctors nervously trying to get
• 1:45:40
  my heart going, it was strange to be so dis detached from my
• 1:45:44
  physical body. I was curious about what They
• 1:45:47
  were doing but not concerned. Then as I drifted farther away,
• 1:45:52
  I saw my father at the head of the table.
• 1:45:55
  He looked up at me, which did give me a surprise, because he'd
• 1:45:59
  been dead now for almost a year. What's on that incredible.
• 1:46:06
  It's just so odd that like, people can leave their bodies
• 1:46:10
  and then they can see an account of something happening that they
• 1:46:13
  should not be able to see. They can come out of it and
• 1:46:16
  describe that account. And man like the fact that A lot
• 1:46:21
  of people tend to see like past relatives and things like that,
• 1:46:26
  which brings to mind like this concept of a soul family, where,
• 1:46:29
  like you travel with certain souls and you don't incarnate
• 1:46:33
  into new biological forms until all of those people have passed
• 1:46:36
  on and you all kind of like, you know, meat and celebration.
• 1:46:39
  And then, you know, Get Zapped into your new biological
• 1:46:42
  Incarnation or something like that, but it's amazing.
• 1:46:50
  So glad I got to do this show, I really am and then de or end of
• 1:46:57
  start service. The same company that I was
• 1:46:59
  told. Well, organization are talking
• 1:47:00
  about earlier asked 1122 near-death, experiences, digital
• 1:47:06
  Vision, differ in any way from your normal everyday Vision.
• 1:47:10
  In any aspect, such as Clarity field of vision colors,
• 1:47:15
  brightness depth perception, Three of solidness.
• 1:47:19
  Transparency of objects Etc, in response 722.
• 1:47:24
  So 64 percent answered, yes, 182 16% said uncertain, and 218
• 1:47:32
  19.4, percent responded. No, a review of narrative
• 1:47:37
  responses to this question revealed that vision, during
• 1:47:40
  Indies was apparently subnormal. Here are some illustrative
• 1:47:45
  examples from ndes. Colors were beyond anything I
• 1:47:49
  had ever seen, everything seems so much more colorful and
• 1:47:54
  brighter than normal. This one's interesting, my
• 1:47:57
  vision was greatly increased. I was able to see things as
• 1:48:01
  close, or as far as needed, there was no strain involved.
• 1:48:04
  It was almost like Auto zooming, a camera.
• 1:48:09
  This is mind-blowing amazing. It's like it's that more real
• 1:48:13
  than real thing you know and if you're not like if you're
• 1:48:16
  experiencing Vision that's not coming from your eyes and like
• 1:48:21
  why would it be beholden to the limitations of eyes right?
• 1:48:25
  You know our people take psychedelics and have weird
• 1:48:27
  meditative experiences where like they become a hawk or
• 1:48:30
  something. And they can see the insane
• 1:48:33
  Vision where you can look at like, a worm, a mile away as a
• 1:48:35
  hawk, you know what I mean? And you can see that and you can
• 1:48:37
  have that type of vision and Experiencing that can really
• 1:48:42
  just change the way that you feel about what experience is in
• 1:48:44
  general. It's out of control, man.
• 1:48:48
  The ndf website and Earth mispronouncing that has received
• 1:48:53
  additional case reports of near-death experiences among
• 1:48:56
  those legally blind for illustration, the following ND
• 1:49:00
  happened to Mark lady called Marta, a five-year-old, blind
• 1:49:04
  girl, who walked into a lake and this is what she said.
• 1:49:11
  I slowly breathed in the water and became unconscious a
• 1:49:15
  beautiful. Lady dressed in bright white,
• 1:49:17
  light called me out. Sorry, a beautiful.
• 1:49:22
  Lady dressed in bright white, hold me up, the lady looked into
• 1:49:26
  my eyes, ask me what I wanted. I was unable to think of
• 1:49:30
  anything into it, occurred to me to travel around the lake as I
• 1:49:34
  did. So, I saw detailed that I would
• 1:49:37
  not have seen in quote, unquote, real life.
• 1:49:41
  I could go anywhere even to the tops of trees, simply by my
• 1:49:45
  intending to go there. I was legally blind for the
• 1:49:49
  first time I I was able to see the leaves on trees birds
• 1:49:54
  feathers, Birds eye's details on telephone poles and what was in
• 1:50:00
  people's backyards. I was fit seeing far better than
• 1:50:04
  20/20 Vision And we spoke about this earlier base.
• 1:50:09
  Again, just kind of reiterating what we said before.
• 1:50:14
  It. I suppose the big at the big,
• 1:50:16
  the big implication of that is the abilities that exist Beyond
• 1:50:24
  human. Life are non-restrictive, but
• 1:50:28
  they are restrictive in human life as probably the best way I
• 1:50:31
  can put that. Yes I'd like what are the
• 1:50:34
  implications of that? What does that mean?
• 1:50:36
  You know, in terms of like what we consider to be real because
• 1:50:39
  we look at reality through just our senses and to think that
• 1:50:43
  there's something that exists beyond that is just amazing.
• 1:50:47
  He's an experienced from a deaf person.
• 1:50:50
  I approach the boundary no explanation was necessary for me
• 1:50:56
  to understand at the age of 10 that I once crossed the boundary
• 1:51:00
  I could never come back period. I was more than thrilled to
• 1:51:05
  cross, I intended to cross but my ancestors over another
• 1:51:09
  boundary caught my attention. They were talking in telepathy
• 1:51:13
  which caught my attention. I was born profoundly deaf.
• 1:51:17
  Deaf and had all hearing family members, all of which new
• 1:51:21
  sideline sign language I could read or communicate with about
• 1:51:25
  20 and sisters of mine and others through telepathic
• 1:51:28
  methods. It overwhelmed me, I could not
• 1:51:32
  believe how many people, I could tell a telepath eyes with
• 1:51:35
  simultaneously. I mean, it's this idea that
• 1:51:39
  like, in death or in an experience like that.
• 1:51:45
  Again, there's no limitations but it's almost like the
• 1:51:48
  problems if you like, oh, automatically fixed.
• 1:51:51
  Oh, you can't hear no problem. We can, we can just talk in
• 1:51:55
  patil apathy. There it is.
• 1:51:57
  Your higher self has no limitations.
• 1:51:59
  It's not be holding goes. Yeah, senses yeah.
• 1:52:03
  I wanted to say this one to a lot, there's still a few more
• 1:52:06
  but this is the last of the kind of accounts that I found through
• 1:52:09
  journals because the, oh my God, it's her, the rabbit hole.
• 1:52:12
  Like, just so my god, when I did the research for this sounds
• 1:52:15
  like replaying your life. I went into a dark place with
• 1:52:21
  nothing around me but I wasn't scared.
• 1:52:25
  It was really peaceful there. I then began to see my whole
• 1:52:29
  life unfolding before me like a film projected on a screen from
• 1:52:34
  babyhood to adult life. It was so real.
• 1:52:38
  I was looking at myself but better than Afridi movie.
• 1:52:42
  As I was also able and capable of sensing the feelings of the
• 1:52:46
  person's I had interacted with through the years.
• 1:52:50
  I could feel the good and bad emotions.
• 1:52:53
  I made them go through this blew my mind when I read this,
• 1:52:59
  Imagine that. You feel how everyone that you
• 1:53:05
  ever interacted with felt? Woohoo.
• 1:53:10
  And see I like I've had that experience to do psychedelics
• 1:53:14
  Billy. Yeah and my fiance had a really
• 1:53:17
  interesting experience like that with psychedelics where she she
• 1:53:21
  had like this Visionary experience, where she sat down
• 1:53:23
  on a bench and all the people in her life, good and bad.
• 1:53:26
  We're like, sitting down next to her and they were just like,
• 1:53:28
  hey, what's up? And they were kind of like
• 1:53:30
  mending the relationships. It wasn't it's so interesting.
• 1:53:34
  So again, these parallels between some of the places you
• 1:53:37
  go with psychedelics in your death experiences are just and I
• 1:53:41
  can't explain it. Oh, and did I do have to say
• 1:53:46
  real quick go for? I think the reason that my
• 1:53:49
  computer was messing up is because there might be a problem
• 1:53:51
  with my power supply because my computer is charging, but it's
• 1:53:55
  continuously like dying and now it's at 17 percent.
• 1:53:58
  So it might, it might die. So I think I got to take it
• 1:54:02
  somewhere and get it fixed because the power supply might
• 1:54:04
  be messed up. Sorry, I'm crying for time until
• 1:54:07
  it dies. It's very profound.
• 1:54:10
  He didn't have much time left, huh?
• 1:54:14
  Reminds me of that moment. In the, there's a movie called
• 1:54:17
  The Secret Life of Walter. Mitty your way to watch that
• 1:54:19
  movie. It's amazing.
• 1:54:21
  There's a moment where he's in like they, I don't know the
• 1:54:23
  Himalayas or something. Oh, no.
• 1:54:25
  Is it The Secret Life of Walter Mitty?
• 1:54:27
  It's either that one or Hector's, search for happiness,
• 1:54:29
  one of the two, but in the movie, he's in the Himalayas.
• 1:54:34
  I think it's Hector search for happiness, actually, and he gets
• 1:54:38
  to the door and he says, to the skies like, oh, it's like a monk
• 1:54:41
  right? He's like, oh yeah, I don't have
• 1:54:43
  much time. I'm like his, he means like he's
• 1:54:45
  stressed, he's on a tight schedule.
• 1:54:47
  And the guy is, like, of course, I understand.
• 1:54:50
  Like, the moment of death is, you know, as of course, it's a
• 1:54:53
  profound moment. It could happen anytime any kind
• 1:54:56
  of hits ha at all. Oh, yeah.
• 1:54:58
  Yeah, it wasn't expecting that kind of response.
• 1:55:04
  Shout out to Vilma. Thank you so much for being such
• 1:55:08
  a big supporter of the show. She always sends in questions.
• 1:55:11
  Responses, everything, massive, thank you.
• 1:55:14
  And thank you to everyone that listens to the show and watches
• 1:55:16
  the show. She sent this in.
• 1:55:18
  This was her father's near-death experience and I had to read
• 1:55:21
  this out. Years ago, my father ended up in
• 1:55:25
  hospital here in Corfu for a silly infection.
• 1:55:28
  Unfortunately, the nurse at the hospital while trying to insert
• 1:55:32
  a tube into his lung, in order to remove some fluid that he had
• 1:55:36
  built up there. She pierced the lung in a way
• 1:55:39
  she shouldn't have and my father started hemorrhaging internally,
• 1:55:43
  he became very weak and yellow in a matter of hours but the
• 1:55:47
  doctrine nurse didn't want to own up to their mistake and kept
• 1:55:50
  saying that this is normal. While they were there, just
• 1:55:54
  waiting for him to die and then present the cause of death as
• 1:55:59
  due to an elusive in a hospital infection, she's put in Brackets
• 1:56:03
  bastards. I agree bastards.
• 1:56:07
  My mother moved Heaven and Earth and managed to board him on a
• 1:56:10
  plane and take him to a big hospital in Athens almost on his
• 1:56:13
  last breath. Wow.
• 1:56:15
  When the doctor saw him there she said that he was on the
• 1:56:19
  brink of death and rushed him to hospital, that's a surgery.
• 1:56:22
  So my father remembers himself waking and sleeping on the plane
• 1:56:28
  being under bright lights and hearing people talking when
• 1:56:32
  suddenly, he said everything became very quiet and peaceful.
• 1:56:35
  He then saw himself hovering over his bed in the surgery and
• 1:56:39
  thought how strange this is? He blinked.
• 1:56:42
  And he found himself on a Green Hill looking down at a beautiful
• 1:56:45
  Valley with trees flowers, rivers and people lying on the
• 1:56:49
  grass reading sleeping and felt a sense of happiness and
• 1:56:53
  perfect, peace. He thought it was very beautiful
• 1:56:56
  and wanted to go there, but then he said that he realized he was
• 1:57:00
  not alone standing on that hill. So he turned around and told
• 1:57:04
  someone who is next to Him and whom he doesn't remember seeing
• 1:57:08
  at all. This is beautiful but not yet.
• 1:57:12
  I want to go back to my family. The next thing he remembers was
• 1:57:16
  waking up in the recovery room where a doctor actually told
• 1:57:19
  him. Welcome back again, this this
• 1:57:24
  choice, you know, the choice that to whether or not you can
• 1:57:26
  come back or you want to come back.
• 1:57:28
  It's so prevalent is experiences.
• 1:57:32
  But a few responses from Reddit, not Maddie.
• 1:57:36
  I posted. What's your near-death
• 1:57:39
  experience? What did you see on to our
• 1:57:41
  credit and they deleted it? I almost instantly which is a
• 1:57:44
  shame but I got a few responses. I don't know.
• 1:57:48
  I haven't read any of these so I don't know if they're good or
• 1:57:50
  bad, I will read them as I go and if there's any dodgy ones
• 1:57:53
  I'll just won't read them. The first ones, the person says,
• 1:57:57
  I huffed too much nitrous oxide and I think I literally did die.
• 1:58:03
  First one minute seem like 10 hours and then I passed out with
• 1:58:06
  blue lips. I said death is absolute
• 1:58:09
  absolute meaningless. Absolute nothingness.
• 1:58:15
  Sorry, damn. Someone else said they had the
• 1:58:21
  same experience. No concept of time or place or
• 1:58:24
  anything, it was just nothing. Another person said they
• 1:58:29
  attempted suicide in 2018, thankfully was caught before I
• 1:58:33
  was too far gone and it was irreversible, Ima Be honest, I
• 1:58:37
  saw nothing but upon being brought back and for a few days,
• 1:58:41
  left mute. And in no control of my motor
• 1:58:44
  functions the reality of its impact on my family and not just
• 1:58:47
  being able to comfort them in any way past a grunt.
• 1:58:51
  And trying to tap them on the arm because of the amount of
• 1:58:54
  shit I had taken fucking my system up.
• 1:58:56
  That was horrific final one. Overdosed a few years back, it
• 1:59:01
  was black nothingness yet somehow I was consciously aware
• 1:59:04
  of it. It felt like floating in space
• 1:59:07
  with no stars or planets, no thoughts, just nothing.
• 1:59:11
  It was like taking a nap in a dream.
• 1:59:17
  This is a good way to kind of wind things down for today's
• 1:59:19
  show. Mmm.
• 1:59:25
  What do you think Josh near-death experiences we spoken
• 1:59:29
  on? We've gone through a lot today
• 1:59:31
  over two hours worth of just remember.
• 1:59:34
  Everything every angle. For you.
• 1:59:40
  What do you make of all? Man, there's thousands and
• 1:59:44
  thousands and thousands of accounts throughout thousands
• 1:59:48
  and thousands of years throughout all types of
• 1:59:51
  cultures. And I'm really glad that there
• 1:59:56
  are a core group of people who are working really, really hard
• 2:00:00
  to uncover. Just what the hell is going on
• 2:00:02
  here, and the fact that they coincide, so, directly with some
• 2:00:07
  of the experiences that I've had on psychedelics, makes me
• 2:00:10
  believe them for one. And just furthers my interest
• 2:00:14
  in. What in the world this stuff is,
• 2:00:15
  you know, because one of the main questions that I have
• 2:00:18
  whether it's psychedelic spirituality, all of this stuff
• 2:00:21
  obviously is, you know, what happens when we die?
• 2:00:24
  What else is out there? What exists Beyond us and
• 2:00:28
  near-death experiences are just another facet of how we can
• 2:00:32
  potentially discover the truth of our existence.
• 2:00:34
  And the truth of what this reality is that we're in.
• 2:00:40
  I know, it's, I'm gonna be sitting with this for some time
• 2:00:42
  after this episode, massive. Thank you, Josh.
• 2:00:47
  As always, it's been an absolute pleasure as we won things down
• 2:00:51
  for today. You have any upcoming projects
• 2:00:53
  upcoming episodes? You want to shout anything else
• 2:00:56
  you're working on, or maybe just some final thoughts that you
• 2:00:58
  want to share with the listeners.
• 2:01:00
  Well, first, I just want to thank you Christian, so much for
• 2:01:02
  having me on your show. Again, it's always a great time
• 2:01:05
  man. I love how open you are.
• 2:01:07
  And I just, I love how like you've been kind Kind of slowly
• 2:01:10
  going down this rabbit hole deeper and deeper.
• 2:01:12
  As I've seen you grow. And as I've seen you, you know,
• 2:01:15
  continue and that's been amazing.
• 2:01:17
  I love it. As far as my shows concerned
• 2:01:20
  pursuit of infinity.com. We're on every podcast platform
• 2:01:25
  YouTube. That's been, I've been
• 2:01:27
  dedicating a lot more time to YouTube than normal doing
• 2:01:30
  shorts. All that kind of stuff too.
• 2:01:32
  So yeah. If anybody, you know, has any
• 2:01:33
  interest in this kind of stuff head on over there and check us
• 2:01:36
  out. Absolutely, my thank you.
• 2:01:38
  By the way, thank you very much. And I feel the same way about
• 2:01:41
  your show. I think it's a solid solid show
• 2:01:44
  that you got going over there and excited to see where it
• 2:01:48
  goes. Next, thank you so much for
• 2:01:50
  being on the show, man. And I know it's just a matter of
• 2:01:52
  time until the next one. I think I think I'm actually
• 2:01:54
  yeah, I'm appearing on your show soon so I can't wait for that.
• 2:01:58
  Look out for that everybody. Yeah, we're gonna have some good
• 2:02:01
  time. I'm excited to see what we chat
• 2:02:02
  about, but yeah, massive. Thank you, man.
• 2:02:05
  And to all the listeners of the Christian re podcast.
• 2:02:08
  I hope you've enjoyed this episode as Much as I have.
• 2:02:10
  I'm glad it's we finally got there.
• 2:02:12
  We finally did it. There will be a few more
• 2:02:14
  episodes on near-death experiences in the coming months
• 2:02:17
  and weeks. But for now, be safe, be well,
• 2:02:23
  the see in the next one.