Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / 29-year-old Colorado mom Kelsey Berreth grabs purse, drops tot-daughter and VANISHES. FBI brings in a backhoe

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29-year-old Colorado mom Kelsey Berreth grabs purse, drops tot-daughter and VANISHES. FBI brings in a backhoe · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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1:38
Speaker 1: here dot com Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I still
1:56
Speaker 1: know somebody knows where she's at. Somebody has seen her.
2:00
Speaker 1: There's more information out there. Somebody just needs to realize,
2:02
Speaker 1: to recognize, than to say something. Has she ever disappeared before? No? No,
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Speaker 1: I can't think of anywhere she's ever gone that. She
2:12
Speaker 1: hasn't told me that. It's just not in her character
2:16
Speaker 1: to just take off and be gone. Thanksgiving is the
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Speaker 1: last known time Kelsey Barrett was seen in public. It
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Speaker 1: was at this Safeway store where she was captured by
2:24
Speaker 1: the store security cameras. Cheryl Barrett says she spoke with
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Speaker 1: Kelsey by phone that day twice. What did you talk
2:32
Speaker 1: about that day? Oh, it's just small things. And initially
2:34
Speaker 1: she needed a recipe. Based on that conversation, there was
2:38
Speaker 1: nothing to make you believe there is anything wrong exactly. Yeah,
2:42
Speaker 1: her voice was fine, she was, Yeah, she was It
2:45
Speaker 1: was a normal day for her. Where is a missing mom?
2:50
Speaker 1: Kelsey Barrett? The search intensifies as the mystery deepens right
2:57
Speaker 1: now to talk talk. Every hour counts. There is a
3:03
Speaker 1: chance she can still be brought back alive. I mean,
3:06
Speaker 1: see Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank you for being
3:09
Speaker 1: with us. Joining me, Ash Wilcot, judge lawyer, you can
3:13
Speaker 1: find her ash Wilcott dot com. Karen Smith, forensics expert,
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Speaker 1: joining us out of the Florida jurisdiction, forensics psychiatrist, doctor
3:21
Speaker 1: Daniel Bober and joining me right now. Crime online dot
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Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter Ellen kill Lauren, Let's start at the beginning.
3:29
Speaker 1: What happened to Chelsea? Tell me everything's giving the beginning
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Speaker 1: of the crime line, the timeline, Ellen, because that's what's
3:36
Speaker 1: so important. Kelsey disappeared on November twenty second, which is
3:40
Speaker 1: Thanksgiving Day. We know that on that day she went
3:44
Speaker 1: to a Safeway supermarket near her home in Woodland Park, Colorado.
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Speaker 1: She had her one year old daughter with her. There
3:51
Speaker 1: After that, she met with her fiance, Patrick Frazy, who
3:55
Speaker 1: she doesn't live with, and handed off her daughter. She
3:59
Speaker 1: has not seen since, the only time that she's been
4:02
Speaker 1: heard from. Two messages were sent from her cell phone
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Speaker 1: on Monday, November twenty fifth. Excuse me. One was to
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Speaker 1: her fiance and we don't know what that message said.
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Speaker 1: And another was to her employer, Doss Aviation, where she
4:17
Speaker 1: worked as a who what what what? White white? Alan
4:21
Speaker 1: Kilauren crime online dot com? Are you telling me she
4:23
Speaker 1: actually spoke verbally to her employer or text to her emails?
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Speaker 1: It was a text? It was a text message sent
4:30
Speaker 1: from her phone. Okay, and wait, I thought you said
4:32
Speaker 1: she the last person she spoke to was the fiance
4:35
Speaker 1: and the employer. They were both text messages, so she
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Speaker 1: spoke to nobody. Then say that she spoke to nobody
4:44
Speaker 1: other than her mother that previously, the last voice conversation
4:50
Speaker 1: that her mother had with her was on Thanksgiving Day,
4:53
Speaker 1: and she saw her fiance in person later that day.
4:56
Speaker 1: So the last person she actually spoke with her mother
5:01
Speaker 1: several days before she goes missing. Ellen Kiloren, My dear,
5:06
Speaker 1: sweet precious snowflake, Ellen, you know what? Let me? Karen Smith?
5:14
Speaker 1: Why do I always have to be the bad guy?
5:16
Speaker 1: Can you explain to Ellen why every word counts? It's
5:21
Speaker 1: very important. Did she speak to somebody the day she
5:26
Speaker 1: goes missing? Or was it a text from her phone?
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Speaker 1: Which guess what, nobody can find Karen's school. My dear Ellen,
5:34
Speaker 1: killorin I don't think I need to school Ellen, but
5:38
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what. Or you may need to take
5:40
Speaker 1: her to the woodshed. Having text messages rather than a
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Speaker 1: vocal call. I mean, come on, this is this is
5:48
Speaker 1: law enforcement in forensics. One oh one. A text message
5:51
Speaker 1: can be sent by anybody who has access to that
5:53
Speaker 1: phone if it's not pass code enforced. If you have
5:57
Speaker 1: a thumb prince that actually you have access to because
6:00
Speaker 1: you put your thumb print on that phone when it
6:02
Speaker 1: was unlocked at some point, it's not that difficult anymore.
6:05
Speaker 1: So if it's only text messages, we don't know who
6:08
Speaker 1: sent them. They're going to have to go into that
6:10
Speaker 1: phone once they find it and figure out where those
6:13
Speaker 1: text messages were actually sent from. And that leads me
6:16
Speaker 1: to another forensic point. Hold on, Ashley Willcott, I know
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Speaker 1: you're chomping at the bit, Doctor Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist.
6:23
Speaker 1: Let's go into the mind of someone that would get
6:26
Speaker 1: rid of Chelsea, a mother of a little baby girl. Okay,
6:30
Speaker 1: get rid of her, and then this is my question,
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Speaker 1: think to use her phone to cover their tracks and
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Speaker 1: text the boyfriend, the fiance, text the employer and go
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Speaker 1: oh I'm taking a week off. That's a whole another
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Speaker 1: animal from somebody flying off the handle and getting mad
6:51
Speaker 1: at a bar and go, you took my money, Bam,
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Speaker 1: you're dead, versus killing somebody, disposing of the body and
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Speaker 1: then making all these her uptitious texts and you know,
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Speaker 1: emails to cover your tracks. That's a whole different way
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Speaker 1: of thinking, doctor Bober. I agree, Nancy, it's on a
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Speaker 1: whole it's on a whole different level. But like your
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Speaker 1: previous guests said, those text messages, you know, are going
7:16
Speaker 1: to be valuable because with text messages unlike with vocal communication, uh,
7:21
Speaker 1: you know, there are is going to be the the
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Speaker 1: amount of texting, the words that we're actually used, and
7:25
Speaker 1: you know, people that are familiar with her are going
7:27
Speaker 1: to know the way that she communicates. And so there's
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Speaker 1: I think a treasure trove of information potentially there in
7:33
Speaker 1: those text messages. Okay, Alan Colorin, are you embarrassed because
7:39
Speaker 1: I'm embarrassed for you. I am. Okay, good now that
7:42
Speaker 1: you've been totally publicly shamed. UM, now I need some
7:46
Speaker 1: facts from you. Um it's really important, and I'm kidding
7:50
Speaker 1: around tiny bit, but it really is crucial. It's crucial
7:53
Speaker 1: when you're trying to establish the timeline, which is where
7:56
Speaker 1: everything starts. Every investigation starts with a timeline and the
8:00
Speaker 1: forensics around that timeline. So let's talk about these. The
8:03
Speaker 1: last time she was seeing was how many days before
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Speaker 1: she was reported missing? Ten days? Okay, just give me
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Speaker 1: short brief answers. So we got ten days, darn, it's
8:14
Speaker 1: a long time. Now into that ten days. When did
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Speaker 1: the texts come in? Number one? And were they pinged?
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Speaker 1: And if so? From where the text came in? On
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Speaker 1: November twenty fifth, which is three days after she was
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Speaker 1: last seeing. Okay, so hold on. Jackie's editing this. The
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Speaker 1: text came in three days after she went missing. Okay,
8:39
Speaker 1: got it. Three days after she went missing. She texts
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Speaker 1: fiance and employer. Is that correct? Ellen? That's right, So
8:48
Speaker 1: both of them were texted in one day. That's right. Interesting, Dame.
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Speaker 1: Her phone was pinged in Idaho, about six hundred miles
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Speaker 1: away from where she lived, but authorities have said they
9:01
Speaker 1: can't confirm that she was actually with her phone at
9:04
Speaker 1: the time, but they can confirm that ping. We know
9:07
Speaker 1: that the ping is correct. Yes, Okay, joining me right now, Judge.
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Speaker 1: A lawyer Ashley Wilcot, Ashley weigh in on what we
9:17
Speaker 1: have ferreted out so far. Well, you know, I do
9:21
Speaker 1: have a lot to say about this Nancy. So here's
9:23
Speaker 1: the thing. We don't know what happened to her. Best case,
9:27
Speaker 1: she decided to take off, God willing, God hoping, because
9:31
Speaker 1: that would mean she's Ashley Ashley. Ashley, Ashley, you know
9:36
Speaker 1: how I feel about you and your family and your
9:40
Speaker 1: great great great great grandparents that came over on the Mayflower.
9:44
Speaker 1: But Ashley, how can you even fix your mouth to
9:46
Speaker 1: say that maybe she went away? This girl is no idiot.
9:51
Speaker 1: She's a flight instructor, isn't that right, Ellen Kilaurin. She's
9:54
Speaker 1: a flying instructor. That's great. I mean this woman can
9:58
Speaker 1: get up in a plane and fly around it teach
10:00
Speaker 1: other people. She's no idget. But she loses her phone,
10:05
Speaker 1: Well maybe maybe she had some freak out of it.
10:08
Speaker 1: I need to take a little break, that's my prayer. Okay,
10:11
Speaker 1: So go back to the reality. Why Ashley, I'm back
10:15
Speaker 1: on you. I'm on you like a cheap suit a
10:18
Speaker 1: girl that wants to break. Okay, this is let's look
10:22
Speaker 1: at what we know, and I may have to go
10:23
Speaker 1: back to the shrink on this one, Ashley will caught.
10:26
Speaker 1: A woman that's calling her mom for a recipe is
10:30
Speaker 1: not a woman who's gonna leave her mom hanging out
10:33
Speaker 1: in the wind, doesn't know where you are that worried
10:36
Speaker 1: sick about you not taking care of your baby girl. No,
10:41
Speaker 1: I mean you see the dichotomy there, right, Like I
10:43
Speaker 1: call my mother, I call Miss Talbert from my little
10:47
Speaker 1: Methodist church, and making various people for recipes, okay, because
10:52
Speaker 1: I love them and their knowledge means something to me.
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Speaker 1: Those are the people you love that you call for recipes, Ashley. Okay,
11:01
Speaker 1: So now Nancy's embarrassed me because you're right, I'm so happy.
11:04
Speaker 1: I how so much misery today. Go ahead. So here's
11:08
Speaker 1: the thing about the texts on the phone and not
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Speaker 1: knowing if the bones with her. We see it all
11:14
Speaker 1: so regrettably, someone could easily think, oh, I'm just gonna
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Speaker 1: text this person and this person or text the boyfriend
11:23
Speaker 1: so they think she's fine and that gives me more
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Speaker 1: time with her, because we don't know if she's dead,
11:28
Speaker 1: if she's been abducted and she's being held somewhere, or
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Speaker 1: so I it is not outside the realm of possibilities. Well,
11:35
Speaker 1: let me give you all something to think about. And mal,
11:39
Speaker 1: why did the fiance put up a stink about giving DNA.
11:46
Speaker 1: Kelsey's fiance, Patrick Frazy, told police he last saw her
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Speaker 1: Thanksgiving afternoon, when he picked up their daughter. Kelsey was
11:53
Speaker 1: not reported missing until ten days later by her mother.
11:57
Speaker 1: Patrick has done everything that he has been asked for
12:00
Speaker 1: by law enforcement. Jeremy Lowe, Patrick Frazy's attorney, says his
12:03
Speaker 1: client has been interviewed by law enforcement, voluntarily released his
12:07
Speaker 1: phone to be searched by investigators, and provided photographs along
12:11
Speaker 1: with cheek swabs for DNA. Police have said Phrasey is cooperating.
12:16
Speaker 1: I have no reason to believe that he is a suspect,
12:18
Speaker 1: and the police have not isolated him as a suspect
12:21
Speaker 1: in this case. Phrasey and Bareth do not live together,
12:24
Speaker 1: but Bareth's mother says their bond is strong. The relationship
12:28
Speaker 1: has been good, they're loving. She remains hopeful her daughter
12:32
Speaker 1: will be found. The speculation hasn't been helpful. Don't try
12:36
Speaker 1: to figure this out. We've got people trying to do that.
12:38
Speaker 1: Just share the photo. There's more important things to be done.
12:40
Speaker 1: At this point, police say the case remains a missing
12:43
Speaker 1: person's investigation. In the back of my mind, sure there's
12:47
Speaker 1: a possibility something else could have happened, but it does
12:51
Speaker 1: mean no good to go down that road, and I
12:54
Speaker 1: don't think it does Kelsey any good either. Twenty nine
12:58
Speaker 1: year old Kelsey Beareth has not been seen since she
13:01
Speaker 1: was recorded on surveillance cameras in a grocery store in
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Speaker 1: Woodland Park, Colorado with her baby daughter. Her fiance, Patrick Frazie,
13:10
Speaker 1: tells that she dropped the baby off after that grocery
13:13
Speaker 1: store trip, and he has not seen or heard from
13:16
Speaker 1: her since now. The two have never lived together, despite
13:20
Speaker 1: being engaged in sharing a daughter. Interesting the fiance was
13:25
Speaker 1: not present at a press conference and has been scrutinized
13:29
Speaker 1: on social media for refusing to speak openly about missing Chelsea,
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Speaker 1: But despite that scrutiny, her mother says they had a
13:38
Speaker 1: very good relationship. Straight out to Ellen Colauria and Crime
13:42
Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter, Ellen, what do you tell
13:45
Speaker 1: me about the fiance, because that is where every timeline starts,
13:48
Speaker 1: The last time someone was seen or spoke spoken to verbally,
13:54
Speaker 1: not by text or email. Tell me about the fiance.
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Speaker 1: That's right, he was the last person and to see her.
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Speaker 1: And we know that he was not the person who
14:03
Speaker 1: contacted police, his lawyer, and he's been with her daughter.
14:09
Speaker 1: His lawyer has a release his statement and says that
14:12
Speaker 1: he is now cooperating with police. He did give a
14:15
Speaker 1: DNA swab of his mouth, he did hand over his phone,
14:19
Speaker 1: but he did not attend a press conference earlier this
14:22
Speaker 1: week where her mother did attendance and spoke and begged
14:27
Speaker 1: for her daughter's return. His lawyer claims that Patrick didn't
14:31
Speaker 1: know about the press conference until an hour before it began,
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Speaker 1: Otherwise he would have been there, and our word to
14:38
Speaker 1: the media, that's what That's what the lawyer said. Kelsey
14:41
Speaker 1: Bressed twenty nine has not been spot assuments gross she
14:44
Speaker 1: stopping with her baby Woodland Park, Colorado. Fiance tells cops
14:49
Speaker 1: she dropped the baby off afterwards at his home. Has
14:51
Speaker 1: not been saying since her phone pinged about seven hundred
14:55
Speaker 1: miles away from where she was last seen three days later.
15:00
Speaker 1: Now does that make sense to you, Karen Smith, forensics experts,
15:02
Speaker 1: seven hundred miles in three days? Does that make sense?
15:05
Speaker 1: It can be done, well, sure, it can be done,
15:08
Speaker 1: but none of it makes sense to me. Nancy who
15:10
Speaker 1: First of all, if my fiance had gone missing, I
15:13
Speaker 1: would be freaking out after three hours. First of all,
15:17
Speaker 1: ten days, ten days she was reported missing ten days
15:21
Speaker 1: later and the cell phone things seven hundred miles away.
15:23
Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? I would be all over the press.
15:26
Speaker 1: I would be in front of every camera that would
15:27
Speaker 1: put my face on television. I would be talking to
15:30
Speaker 1: everyone and anyone if I had nothing to do with this.
15:33
Speaker 1: Ten days is a long time to pass. Ashley, Well,
15:39
Speaker 1: kind I'm looking at the video right now. She comes
15:41
Speaker 1: in the front of the grocery store. She's carrying the
15:43
Speaker 1: baby in a car seat. Oh, it looks just like
15:45
Speaker 1: the ones I would carry the twins in double fisted.
15:48
Speaker 1: She puts the car seat in the front of a
15:51
Speaker 1: cart with the baby facing her, you know that top area,
15:54
Speaker 1: and then she drives off. She's got on a coat,
15:57
Speaker 1: her hairs back in a bun, and the baby is
16:00
Speaker 1: all bundled up. All right, So what do we know
16:04
Speaker 1: about him originally not giving DNA because at this juncture,
16:09
Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcott, he has done interviews, he has released his
16:13
Speaker 1: phone to be searched, He's given given buckle swabs, which
16:17
Speaker 1: is you know, a mouth swab and photographs. On the
16:20
Speaker 1: other hand, Ashley, I guess his lawyer said, look, if
16:23
Speaker 1: you don't give it to them willingly, they can get
16:25
Speaker 1: a warrant from you and take it from you. Right,
16:29
Speaker 1: That's what the lawyer's going to advise him. But let
16:31
Speaker 1: me ask you this, why get a lawyer in the
16:33
Speaker 1: first place if you're not involved in second? Ten days?
16:36
Speaker 1: I agree with your guests ten days. Who waits ten
16:39
Speaker 1: days to figure out where somebody is, especially the mother
16:42
Speaker 1: of your one year old? You know. He also the
16:45
Speaker 1: lawyer says that what does this mean to you, doctor
16:48
Speaker 1: Daniel Bober, You're the forensic psychiatrist. The lawyer has added
16:53
Speaker 1: that the fiance for Ze will not speak publicly because
16:56
Speaker 1: he does not want to quote impede the police investigation. Yeah,
17:03
Speaker 1: I mean, Nancy, a lot of this stuff is not
17:05
Speaker 1: just positive, but it's certainly very suspicious. I mean, he's
17:07
Speaker 1: sort of reluctantly cooperating and sort of has to be
17:11
Speaker 1: dragged to do it. So that's definitely concerning and it
17:15
Speaker 1: seems like he definitely has something to hide, although again
17:18
Speaker 1: it's not despositive. Well, I agree with you because let
17:22
Speaker 1: me go to you, Ashley, Wilcot. When the chief of
17:25
Speaker 1: police there at Widland Park, Chief Miles de Young, was
17:28
Speaker 1: asked at the press conference about the fiance not being there,
17:33
Speaker 1: he simply said, you'd have to ask him, okay to see.
17:38
Speaker 1: I can read a lot into that response, Ashley. Absolutely,
17:42
Speaker 1: he's not cooperating, And it sounds like law enforcements frustrated
17:45
Speaker 1: because where most people who have a missing person in
17:47
Speaker 1: their life do anything and everything they can and give
17:50
Speaker 1: law enforcement every shred of everything they need. The boyfriend
17:54
Speaker 1: is not doing that. The fiance is not cooperating, So
17:56
Speaker 1: I think it does indicate something a miss Now, the
18:02
Speaker 1: brother Clinton Bareth said that he realized she was missing
18:06
Speaker 1: and he goes to her home and what the brother
18:09
Speaker 1: Clint Beareth says is the only thing missing from the
18:11
Speaker 1: home was her pocketbook, her luggage, her makeup, all untouched
18:16
Speaker 1: in her two vehicles are still at the home. Ellen Colaurin,
18:21
Speaker 1: you left that little detail out. Both her cars are
18:23
Speaker 1: at the house, her luggage, her makeup, all that. The
18:25
Speaker 1: only thing missing is her pocketbook, which I'd like to
18:29
Speaker 1: point out she had with her when she was at
18:32
Speaker 1: the grocery store. That's great, and not only was all
18:37
Speaker 1: of that stuff left behind, but there was also some
18:41
Speaker 1: cinnamon rolls that she had clearly just speaked that day
18:45
Speaker 1: that by the time they got there they were cold,
18:47
Speaker 1: but she was speaking in her kitchen and it looks
18:49
Speaker 1: like she just pulled out the roles to cool and
18:52
Speaker 1: had every intention of coming back. There are absolutely no
18:55
Speaker 1: signs in the home that she was planning on going
18:58
Speaker 1: away for any amount of time. Take a listen to
19:01
Speaker 1: our friends Inside Edition reporting on Kelsey barrette disappearance. Guys
19:06
Speaker 1: at tipline seven one six, six, eight, seven, nine two
19:09
Speaker 1: six two seven one six six eight, seven nine two
19:13
Speaker 1: six two another number seven one nine six four seven
19:18
Speaker 1: five nine nine nine seven one nine six four seven
19:22
Speaker 1: five nine nine nine. This little baby deserves to be
19:26
Speaker 1: with mommy. On Christmas Morning, listen, we talked just Thanksgiving morning.
19:34
Speaker 1: A mother of missing Kelsey Barrett shares more of what
19:36
Speaker 1: happened on the last day she saw her daughter. This
19:40
Speaker 1: is video of what police believe is one of the
19:42
Speaker 1: last times she was seen. Here she is walking into
19:45
Speaker 1: a safeweight grocery store near her town in Colorado with
19:48
Speaker 1: her one year old daughter. Cheryl Barrett speaks with CBS News.
19:53
Speaker 1: Did she sounds normal? Did she sounds Definitely, she sounded happy.
19:57
Speaker 1: A few days after her disappearance, detect say a text
20:00
Speaker 1: message was sent from her phone to her employer saying
20:04
Speaker 1: she would not be showing up to work. The following week,
20:07
Speaker 1: another text was set to her fiance. Cell phone tower
20:10
Speaker 1: data indicates the phone was hundreds of miles away outside Gooding, Idaho.
20:15
Speaker 1: But investigators have not found there. Are there. It just
20:19
Speaker 1: makes no sense. I guess it just makes no sense
20:21
Speaker 1: that we can't find her. I have to keep looking. Hi,
20:29
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Speaker 1: forward slash Nancy truthfinder dot com forward slash Nancy. Find
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Speaker 1: the truth crime stories with Nancy Grace. I would like
21:48
Speaker 1: let me know if you need you need to take
21:49
Speaker 1: giving your doctor depointment because you're not feeling well. And
21:51
Speaker 1: I have called in Texas. I'm come to our house.
21:54
Speaker 1: She's not answering the doors. She's not responding. I think
21:56
Speaker 1: it's your phone call. That's an other friend reach out
21:58
Speaker 1: for None of us commared hers on for us. They
22:00
Speaker 1: are two whole girls in victory and four. I mean
22:02
Speaker 1: there's no movement in the house footsoever. And he said
22:05
Speaker 1: that she didn't take them big here and was going
22:07
Speaker 1: to go on a play date. But they're both in
22:08
Speaker 1: her seats and their car her cars here. But I
22:11
Speaker 1: went to the doctor's office because I then used them
22:13
Speaker 1: as bombers. And I said, I know you can't give
22:15
Speaker 1: me both things because of Hippa, but can you just
22:17
Speaker 1: tell me if she showed up at her appointments this money,
22:19
Speaker 1: and the lady was like, no, she did note okay,
22:21
Speaker 1: and that that's unusual behavior of behavior for her to
22:25
Speaker 1: nut show up her rector frenments. No, she I knew pregnancy,
22:29
Speaker 1: like she's so excited and then got ly invited from
22:32
Speaker 1: her husband that he wanted the free a week ago.
22:35
Speaker 1: And I didn't think of christ yet because famous Chris Watch.
22:38
Speaker 1: It was a friend, not Chris Watts that called police
22:41
Speaker 1: to make that nine one one emergency call a friend
22:45
Speaker 1: of Shenane Watts. And notice she's saying that Shanane has
22:51
Speaker 1: left her car at home with the car seats in it,
22:55
Speaker 1: which is critical in this case because Sananne would not
22:58
Speaker 1: go anywhere. She was gone and the children were gone,
23:00
Speaker 1: but the car seats were in the car. That's a
23:03
Speaker 1: big giveaway that somewhere she's got the two little girls,
23:07
Speaker 1: Bella and Celeste with her. I Nancy Grace, this his
23:10
Speaker 1: crime stories, and we are sifting through the facts as
23:13
Speaker 1: we know them. Anything could happen in the Chris Watts case. Anything.
23:18
Speaker 1: We now know that Chris Watts, as we suspected, murdered
23:22
Speaker 1: his beautiful wife, Chananne, their daughters, Bella and Celeste, Asia's
23:27
Speaker 1: three and four and their unborn child, Nico, fifteen weeks along.
23:33
Speaker 1: But why was there a sign? Was there a red flag?
23:36
Speaker 1: Is there anyway Chananne could have saved her a life
23:39
Speaker 1: and the two lives of her children. We now have
23:43
Speaker 1: obtained details about the recovery of the three bodies, the
23:47
Speaker 1: four bodies. Chanane had given birth to baby Nico fifteen
23:54
Speaker 1: weeks along. He was delivered into her underwear and found
24:01
Speaker 1: in the shallow grave. It's called coffin birth when the
24:05
Speaker 1: uterus pro lapses and the child the uters can no
24:10
Speaker 1: longer hauld the child in. The children were found Bella
24:15
Speaker 1: and Celeste. And I want you to brace yourself if
24:17
Speaker 1: you don't already know these facts, stuffed literally stuffed with
24:23
Speaker 1: injured bones to do it, into oil canisters whose openings
24:33
Speaker 1: are only eight inches in diameter. Those children's bodies were
24:37
Speaker 1: stuffed into the oil canisters. When the workers tried to
24:44
Speaker 1: get in, they had to drain the huge drums, the
24:47
Speaker 1: big big and they were going in and out in
24:51
Speaker 1: hazmat suits. They could only stay in one or two
24:53
Speaker 1: minutes at a time. They looked in and they saw
24:56
Speaker 1: in one of the canisters a little girl in the corner,
25:01
Speaker 1: face down, slumped over in the corner, and when they
25:06
Speaker 1: tried to pull her out again, brace yourself. They said
25:12
Speaker 1: that she deep gloved. That is a euphemism that is
25:17
Speaker 1: putting perfume on the pig. What that means is when
25:21
Speaker 1: they grasped her hand her arm to lift her up,
25:26
Speaker 1: her skin slid off her body. It happened to both
25:32
Speaker 1: little girls different parts of their bodies where they would
25:36
Speaker 1: try to pick up the little girls and their skin
25:39
Speaker 1: would just come off. Meanwhile, Chris Watts's bragging to police
25:46
Speaker 1: about you know, how much weight he's lost, and we
25:49
Speaker 1: find out about multiple lovers and the double life he
25:52
Speaker 1: was leading, all along with me, Ellen Colora and Crime
25:56
Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter Alexis Tourez, Chuck Radar Online
26:00
Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter Karen Stark, renowned New York psychologist,
26:04
Speaker 1: North Carolina family and divorced a lawyer, a veteran courtroom gladiator,
26:10
Speaker 1: Kathleen Murphy, and special guest Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics,
26:15
Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University and author of Blood Beneath My Feet
26:19
Speaker 1: on Amazon. Straight out to Ellen klaurin Crime online dot
26:25
Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter. She and alexis breaking so much news
26:29
Speaker 1: in this case. You know, at any moment, I fully
26:34
Speaker 1: believe that Chris Watts is so volatile and his parents
26:38
Speaker 1: are still standing behind him, and I would not be
26:41
Speaker 1: surprised if at some juncture Chris Watts tries to contest
26:46
Speaker 1: his guilty plea, be careful what you ask, my dear,
26:50
Speaker 1: for you will surely get it. He could get a
26:53
Speaker 1: trial if a judge went along with that, and I
26:57
Speaker 1: believe the state would seek the death penalty on him.
26:59
Speaker 1: But Ellen Colorin, I want to talk to you. What
27:03
Speaker 1: is a new evidence you've discovered? Well, as we heard
27:06
Speaker 1: in the nine one one call, I think that one
27:08
Speaker 1: very important thing here is even though people on Chris
27:11
Speaker 1: watt side of things, including his family, will say he
27:14
Speaker 1: was the best guy ever, he was the greatest guy ever.
27:17
Speaker 1: Chandan's friends knew that something was up, and they knew
27:21
Speaker 1: it pretty quickly. He claimed that Shannons went on a
27:24
Speaker 1: playdate and brought her two daughters, But as her friend
27:26
Speaker 1: says in the nine one one call, the car seats
27:29
Speaker 1: are still in the back of the car. Another friend, Cassie,
27:32
Speaker 1: who's among several people who are frantically looking for Shannon
27:35
Speaker 1: Watts that morning, says to Chris, where are you get
27:38
Speaker 1: over to your house or I'm going to call the police.
27:41
Speaker 1: The police are going to bust down your door. And
27:42
Speaker 1: Chris said to her, don't call the police. But fortunately
27:45
Speaker 1: Nicole Atkinson did call the police and they were there
27:48
Speaker 1: waiting for him. No matter what Chris Watts tries to
27:52
Speaker 1: claim or tried to claim about how his daughters were killed,
27:58
Speaker 1: one thing say undisputed the fact that he put those
28:03
Speaker 1: bodies into a tiny little aid in space. And when
28:08
Speaker 1: he first confesses to investigators about how he disposed of them,
28:13
Speaker 1: they can't believe it. They are incredulous that he was
28:17
Speaker 1: able to get those bodies in there. And the first
28:20
Speaker 1: investigators to go out to the scene saw that there
28:22
Speaker 1: was hair on the opening to one of those oil tanks,
28:26
Speaker 1: but Chris Wats insisted it was no trouble at all.
28:29
Speaker 1: It was easy. There's no way that's true, And that
28:32
Speaker 1: tells you everything about what you need about what kind
28:35
Speaker 1: of person Chris was at that time. Alexis Dreschuk way
28:38
Speaker 1: in on what we have learned not only from this
28:40
Speaker 1: novel One Call, but from the text that Ellen and
28:44
Speaker 1: you have managed to obtain. So Nan was texting with
28:48
Speaker 1: her friends. She was gone on a business trip the
28:50
Speaker 1: weekend before she was murdered, and she was telling them
28:53
Speaker 1: that she was afraid her mirror over, that there was
28:56
Speaker 1: nothing that she was going to be able to do
28:58
Speaker 1: to fix it. She had fallen out of love with her.
29:00
Speaker 1: He wasn't physical with her when they were on vacation together.
29:03
Speaker 1: There was and she just said, I'm afraid there's nothing
29:05
Speaker 1: I can do. And she was in a panic. This
29:08
Speaker 1: is her marriage, that had been years, they'd been together forever,
29:10
Speaker 1: they two children, one on the way, and all of
29:12
Speaker 1: a sudden, on the turn of a dime, he had
29:15
Speaker 1: stopped loving her and stop being affectionate. She was frantically
29:18
Speaker 1: trying to figure out what she could do, and that's
29:20
Speaker 1: what the text messages show. They show she says, well,
29:23
Speaker 1: what if there's nothing I can do? What if this
29:25
Speaker 1: is really really over? I'm that a lot. I don't
29:30
Speaker 1: know what to do. And her friends were writing back
29:32
Speaker 1: and saying there must be an explanation because they'd all
29:34
Speaker 1: seen their wonderful relationship. Everybody had seen them together. He
29:38
Speaker 1: was a great husband. They whether they were so cute,
29:40
Speaker 1: They were so excited that they were having another baby,
29:42
Speaker 1: that's about to do a gender reveal party, and instead
29:45
Speaker 1: she knew that he was seeing So he had spent
29:48
Speaker 1: sixty two dollars at a restaurant, and she found that
29:50
Speaker 1: out while she was with her friends, and that is
29:53
Speaker 1: more money than one person would have spent at this
29:55
Speaker 1: restaurant because they looked up online. He said he had
29:57
Speaker 1: salmon and beer, and her friend looked it up with her,
29:59
Speaker 1: and salmon and beer did not crist sixty two dollars.
30:01
Speaker 1: So these friends knew that this marriage was a crisis.
30:04
Speaker 1: So when she was texting them about how unhappy and
30:06
Speaker 1: how scared she was for the future of her marriage,
30:09
Speaker 1: they knew that there was something wrong too too. Joseph
30:12
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, death investigator, author of Blood Beneath My Feet
30:15
Speaker 1: on Amazon. You're right about at least one of the
30:19
Speaker 1: children fighting back. The four year old daughter, Bella, did
30:22
Speaker 1: fight back, and this is how we know that as
30:25
Speaker 1: he strangled her before it shoving her little body into
30:28
Speaker 1: an oil drum. Because Bella actually bit her own tongue
30:35
Speaker 1: as she tried to stop her dad from suffocating her,
30:39
Speaker 1: and the autopsy reveals that her body was totally scraped
30:45
Speaker 1: as he tried to cram her body through a very
30:49
Speaker 1: small hatch in an oil tank where he hid her in.
30:54
Speaker 1: Baby sister, Celeste. Can you just imagine the horror and
30:59
Speaker 1: that little girl's mind as she fought for her life. No, No,
31:06
Speaker 1: I absolutely can't, Nancy. Uh. And it just out of
31:10
Speaker 1: nowhere in this environment which you feel very very safe.
31:13
Speaker 1: You know you talked about how she was crammed into this,
31:19
Speaker 1: into this space. Uh, this hatch in the top, this
31:23
Speaker 1: eight inch hole. Can I say something real quick? In
31:26
Speaker 1: my research that I've found, do you know what the
31:29
Speaker 1: name of those hatches are are called? On top of
31:32
Speaker 1: those tanks? And this is rife with irony, Those are
31:34
Speaker 1: actually referred to as thief hatches, Nancy. And I find
31:38
Speaker 1: it interesting here because he literally stole these little girls
31:41
Speaker 1: lives unaware, this person that was that was tasked with
31:44
Speaker 1: taking care of them, with loving them, with providing for them,
31:48
Speaker 1: stole their lives and just jammed them and stuffed them
31:51
Speaker 1: away like a piece of garbage. Helping me. I'm not good,
32:15
Speaker 1: my daddy, daddy. And you are hearing Chris Watts's daughter
32:22
Speaker 1: in her car seat singing my daddy as a hero.
32:25
Speaker 1: The same day Chris Watts that then killed her, her
32:29
Speaker 1: little sister, the mom, Chananne and the baby. And right
32:32
Speaker 1: now I'm looking at texts between Chananne and her friends
32:37
Speaker 1: and she's now talking to her friends. What am I
32:39
Speaker 1: going to do? What am I going to do? She says,
32:43
Speaker 1: I can't do this alone with three children. I'm not happy.
32:47
Speaker 1: And the friends trying to talk her into keeping baby
32:50
Speaker 1: Nico because she desperately wanted the baby boy, and she says, Chananne,
32:57
Speaker 1: I keep asking him again and again, but because he
33:00
Speaker 1: ignored me when I asked did he want the baby?
33:03
Speaker 1: And he said no? So to Karen Start and York psychologist,
33:11
Speaker 1: what does that mean to you? She's writing text to
33:13
Speaker 1: her friends Chris does not want this baby, that he's
33:18
Speaker 1: happy with Bella and Celeste. He thought he wanted another baby.
33:24
Speaker 1: How I got this out of him? I said to him,
33:27
Speaker 1: do you want me to abort? You? Know? Nancy? What
33:32
Speaker 1: would have been amazingly wonderful at that point was for
33:36
Speaker 1: her to realize that that is a terrible sign. Here's
33:41
Speaker 1: a guy who enjoys being a father, once had a baby,
33:45
Speaker 1: he has this whole thing where they're a great family,
33:47
Speaker 1: and now he's saying he doesn't want the baby after
33:51
Speaker 1: she's already pregnant. That is a sign that something is very,
33:55
Speaker 1: very wrong, and unfortunately she didn't realize that. You know,
33:59
Speaker 1: to Lee Murphy, North Carolina family lawyer, divorce lawyer, I've
34:06
Speaker 1: said it a million times, Kathleen, why not just get
34:10
Speaker 1: a divorce for Pete? Say? I don't. I don't understand
34:13
Speaker 1: this thinking people have a misconception of what a divorce
34:17
Speaker 1: really entails. I'm a mediator and I tell people that
34:21
Speaker 1: come in to see me that we are required to
34:25
Speaker 1: mediate so many issues before we even head into litigation
34:31
Speaker 1: or hearings. And it's not a process to be afraid of.
34:35
Speaker 1: That's why I offer at my office a consultation at
34:38
Speaker 1: no charge. I've been doing that for thirty years because
34:41
Speaker 1: we need to squash that myth that a divorce can
34:46
Speaker 1: be so terrifying and destructive. It's really not. It's really not. Nancy. Well,
34:52
Speaker 1: let me ask you this, Kathleen. You've got the husband
34:55
Speaker 1: saying abort the baby. She's already at fifteen weeks, okay,
34:58
Speaker 1: so that she's in her third month. Let me ask
35:01
Speaker 1: you about the possibility that Chris Watts is going to
35:06
Speaker 1: contest his guilty plea. You know that's happened many many
35:11
Speaker 1: times for someone comes up with an excuse, they contest
35:15
Speaker 1: their guilty plea, they get a trial. You know, the
35:18
Speaker 1: Colorado has the death penalty. He's a narcissist. He is
35:23
Speaker 1: never going to be wrong and it's always going to
35:25
Speaker 1: be a self focus. I would not be surprised if
35:29
Speaker 1: that comes down the pipes. Look at the Scott Peterson.
35:33
Speaker 1: We're God of Habeas Corpus, that dear Lord in heaven exactly.
35:37
Speaker 1: You know, here's another issue, Jessicott Morgan, you have carefully
35:42
Speaker 1: you're the forensics expert, Professor Forensics at Jackson State University.
35:45
Speaker 1: What do we learn from the bodies that implicates him? Well,
35:50
Speaker 1: you know, I think that for me when I'm when
35:53
Speaker 1: I'm looking at the autopsy reports on these these four
35:58
Speaker 1: actually four innocent innocent here the would see see the
36:04
Speaker 1: youngest she was, there is little or no trauma or
36:08
Speaker 1: anything that's that's going to give you an indication of
36:11
Speaker 1: how she was killed. I think a lot of that
36:13
Speaker 1: is through process of elimination, going back to her older
36:16
Speaker 1: sister with Bella. When Chris Watts and I can say
36:20
Speaker 1: this in the affirmative. Now, when Chris Watts suffocated Bella,
36:25
Speaker 1: he forcefully held his hand over her face or put
36:29
Speaker 1: a pillow her face to the period to the point
36:31
Speaker 1: where she's convulsing and and ripping the interior the little
36:35
Speaker 1: attachments of tissue in her mouth as well as biting
36:38
Speaker 1: her tongue with nan. She's got a single mark on
36:42
Speaker 1: the right side of her neck. There's like actually hemorrhage.
36:45
Speaker 1: If people just feel to the right side of the
36:47
Speaker 1: cartilage on their neck, there's an area in there called
36:49
Speaker 1: strap muscles, and she's got a focal area of hemorrhage.
36:53
Speaker 1: That's why I think she was probably you know, everybody,
36:56
Speaker 1: every lady in the audience that has been pregnant, you know,
36:59
Speaker 1: you can't get comfortable. She's probably sleeping on her left side.
37:02
Speaker 1: I think that he approached from her right rear and
37:06
Speaker 1: wrapped his hand around her neck from the rear and
37:09
Speaker 1: choked her out. And that's how she got this mark
37:12
Speaker 1: on the right side of her neck, because she's laying
37:13
Speaker 1: on the left side of her body to try to
37:15
Speaker 1: be comforted as she sleeps with baby Nico in her womb.
37:19
Speaker 1: You know, it's also amazing, is it true. Alexis Tresha,
37:22
Speaker 1: writer online dot Com that Chris Watts is already getting
37:25
Speaker 1: love letters, love letters behind bars. He killed his wife
37:29
Speaker 1: and children, and women are writing him love letters. It's
37:32
Speaker 1: not like he was tried and there's some question about
37:35
Speaker 1: his innocence. He pled guilty, okay, so nobody can have
37:40
Speaker 1: the illusion that he's wrongly convicted. He pled guilty, and
37:44
Speaker 1: women are still writing him. They want to sleep with
37:47
Speaker 1: him behind bars. They are still so we ever became
37:51
Speaker 1: so many letters from women. These are and written ten
37:56
Speaker 1: page letters and cursive, curlycue writing with heart emojis, draw
38:00
Speaker 1: hearts and smiley faces, just telling Chris that they think
38:03
Speaker 1: he looks like a beautiful soul and they feel a
38:05
Speaker 1: connection to him, and they he should because they just
38:09
Speaker 1: know that they have a you know, a good way
38:11
Speaker 1: that they can really bring him out of these dark places.
38:13
Speaker 1: These women are crazy that are writing to him. And
38:15
Speaker 1: it's not just one. There are multiple letters of people
38:18
Speaker 1: they're writing him. They send pictures of themselves so that
38:21
Speaker 1: he can see how beautiful they are and just say,
38:23
Speaker 1: don't you see that we have this connection. I can
38:26
Speaker 1: help you, I can be the one, and I feel
38:28
Speaker 1: a love that I'm sending towards you. It's really disturbing
38:32
Speaker 1: that people do this. This man, he killed his entire
38:36
Speaker 1: family and he confess, he confessed to the police that
38:40
Speaker 1: he killed them, and they still think that he's this
38:43
Speaker 1: wonderful man because he's so good looking. He's not good looking,
38:46
Speaker 1: Quin saying that Alexis he's not good looking. When I
38:50
Speaker 1: look at him, I just see the devil. We wait
38:54
Speaker 1: as more of this investigation unfolds. Nancy Grace Crime Story,
38:59
Speaker 1: signing off goodbye friend,