Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Protecting your wealth – Adrian Benjamin

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Protecting your wealth – Adrian Benjamin · Financial Planner Life Podcast

0:04
SPEAKER_02: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life Podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
0:17
SPEAKER_02: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
0:25
SPEAKER_02: They have a niche specialism, recruiting, within the financial planning industry, so check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
0:38
SPEAKER_02: And today's guest is Adrian Benjamin.
0:40
SPEAKER_02: Adrian is one of the most enthusiastic people I've ever come across who works within financial protection.
0:47
SPEAKER_02: He helps property investors protect themselves and their families and businesses.
0:52
SPEAKER_02: And he helps investors pass on generational wealth.
0:55
SPEAKER_02: And today we talk about the role of a protection advisor, what part it plays within the financial planning process and why starting out as a protection advisor is a fantastic stepping stone into the role of financial advice or mortgage advice.
1:10
SPEAKER_02: Adrian shares deeply today.
1:11
SPEAKER_02: He's very knowledgeable and intelligent.
1:13
SPEAKER_02: I hope you enjoy the podcast.
1:15
SPEAKER_02: Adrian, thank you so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life Podcast.
1:19
SPEAKER_02: How are you, sir?
1:20
SPEAKER_00: I'm good.
1:21
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
1:22
SPEAKER_00: So I appreciate you inviting me on the podcast today.
1:25
SPEAKER_02: Hey, listen, I appreciate you reaching out to me and asking to come on the podcast.
1:28
SPEAKER_02: I thought that was very forced, you know?
1:31
SPEAKER_00: Hey, you've got to be proactive.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: And we'll touch on that in my career.
1:34
SPEAKER_00: You've got to ask people.
1:35
SPEAKER_00: You have to.
1:35
SPEAKER_00: And also because I value the content on there and the quality of the people that you've had on, that's like I need to definitely speak to Sam because he's doing something really good.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: I think the financial industry, if you're not in it, the reputation can be a bit scary or something's aren't true.
1:50
SPEAKER_00: And I think the guests that you have on, they're all different.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: And I think they're all excellent in what they do as well.
1:55
SPEAKER_00: Again, bearing the stage in their career, it's important.
1:58
SPEAKER_00: So I think yours, your podcast is really good, especially for what I do as well.
2:02
SPEAKER_02: Brilliant, Agent.
2:02
SPEAKER_02: That's what it's all about.
2:03
SPEAKER_02: It's about creating that reducing the removing the barrier to entry of learning about a career within financial services, whether it's protection, whether it's mortgage, whether it's financial advice, investment management, power planning.
2:16
SPEAKER_02: There's all these different roles, isn't there?
2:18
SPEAKER_02: And someone on the outside looking in doesn't know where to start.
2:21
SPEAKER_02: And you see these job adverts or you see the advert on a website, and it doesn't look or sound any way you can understand it.
2:28
SPEAKER_02: It's full of jargon, it's confusing.
2:31
SPEAKER_02: And I always thought, well, the best way to even understand what somebody does.
2:34
SPEAKER_02: And I know this from working in recruitment is to ask them directly, well, what is it you do?
2:37
SPEAKER_02: How do you do it?
2:38
SPEAKER_02: Why do you do it?
2:39
SPEAKER_02: What is it like on a daily basis?
2:41
SPEAKER_02: And these are the questions that I ask on the on the podcast, and they get answered.
2:45
SPEAKER_02: So good.
2:45
SPEAKER_02: I'm pleased, Adrian.
2:46
SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much.
2:47
SPEAKER_02: Right.
2:47
SPEAKER_02: Well, let's crack on then.
2:48
SPEAKER_02: Adrian, um, let's just start off at you, just sort of giving us a little bit of an overview then of who you are and what you're currently doing.
2:57
SPEAKER_00: So I'm Roger from Manchester.
2:59
SPEAKER_00: Everyone's telling me the accent's not there anymore.
3:01
SPEAKER_00: I've been in London for longer than I thought I would be.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I am a financial protection advisor.
3:07
SPEAKER_00: That is why I specialise in.
3:08
SPEAKER_02: Excellent.
3:09
SPEAKER_02: Great.
3:09
SPEAKER_02: So financial protection advisor.
3:12
SPEAKER_02: So we've had people on here who have worked within the financial planning profession, mortgage advisors, but nobody really that is a specialist in protection.
3:20
SPEAKER_02: So just tell me a little bit about why you chose to enter the advice sort of arena, if you like, but in the protection sector.
3:29
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
3:29
SPEAKER_00: So I've got over 10 years investment banking, corporate banking consultant experience.
3:34
SPEAKER_00: So when I was 22, um, I was on the Mount Batten internship and I worked for UBS Swiss Bank.
3:39
SPEAKER_00: This was in 2009, so kind of the middle of the major big crash financially.
3:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, came back to Manchester to actually do recruitment.
3:48
SPEAKER_00: So that's why I get along with you.
3:49
SPEAKER_00: I understand how it's like to be a recruiter.
3:51
SPEAKER_00: I've done that for a bit.
3:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, I worked for Royal Bank of Scotland when they were huge back in the day, um, before it all changed around.
3:58
SPEAKER_00: And then when I moved to London, I worked for some fin tech companies, so finance tech.
4:03
SPEAKER_00: And then I got into contracting, again, kind of cliche, fell into it.
4:06
SPEAKER_00: And I worked for Accenture as a consultant, and then I worked on the HSBC Ring Betson project, which is one of the um the biggest projects in HSBC history.
4:16
SPEAKER_00: I think it was like a billion pounds, 26 work streams, international um project.
4:21
SPEAKER_00: And then after that, I got headhunted and worked for Visa on their chargeback platform.
4:25
SPEAKER_00: And then I worked for Bloomberg, who are the leader in data financial companies on their KYC um project.
4:33
SPEAKER_00: And then I worked for Deloitte and basically managing all their HSBC projects globally.
4:39
SPEAKER_00: So again, I've searched on before the quote my CD is very varied, but I like it.
4:44
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't done on purpose, but I like the fact that I can say I've worked for the biggest companies in the world and I work for startups and I'm also self-employed, and I've set up other businesses myself.
4:54
SPEAKER_00: But to answer your question, how I got into protection, I was very passionate about learning more about property.
5:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, so four years ago, I started property training um with a company called Progressive Property based in Peterborough.
5:06
SPEAKER_00: They're the UK's biggest uh training provider if you want to learn about property.
5:09
SPEAKER_00: So I've been with them for over four years.
5:12
SPEAKER_00: And I there's it's kind of like being um an estate agent where you're helping investors buy properties, which they might not be able to go because how far it is, we'll understand the numbers.
5:22
SPEAKER_00: So it's called deal sourcing.
5:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I did that.
5:26
SPEAKER_00: And from speaking to clients, I'd always say, ask them like, why are you buying this investment property?
5:31
SPEAKER_00: Like, what's the end goal?
5:32
SPEAKER_00: And everyone always says, it's for my family to pass on all this other stuff.
5:36
SPEAKER_00: Fine.
5:37
SPEAKER_00: Then I just started thinking, if that was to happen, what happens to the property and paying the mortgages?
5:43
SPEAKER_00: And then a kind of a light bulb went in my head.
5:45
SPEAKER_00: It's like, no one really talks about life insurance.
5:48
SPEAKER_00: No one, it's not again, it's not cliche, it's not glamorous, sexy product, and there's a lot of misinformation about it.
5:53
SPEAKER_00: So I was like, you know what, I'm gonna do that, which no one does.
5:57
SPEAKER_00: No one says I'm gonna go into life insurance.
6:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, and again, because I didn't have any life insurance experience, it's all been banking and consulting, getting a job in it initially was difficult.
6:07
SPEAKER_00: So, is again, you know, my personality.
6:09
SPEAKER_00: LinkedIn is there to be used.
6:11
SPEAKER_00: So again, I message people, and again, because I've got the recruitment background, it's not an issue for me to send a million LinkedIn messages and you know call people.
6:18
SPEAKER_00: Like I've been doing that my whole career.
6:20
SPEAKER_00: So I found one company that said, you know what?
6:23
SPEAKER_00: I rang them and I said, So you're a mortgage broken firm.
6:27
SPEAKER_00: How much um mortgages have you done the past two years?
6:30
SPEAKER_00: Okay, we've done about 200 million of mortgages.
6:32
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, that's really good.
6:33
SPEAKER_00: How much life insurance have you sold?
6:35
SPEAKER_00: Oh, not really.
6:36
SPEAKER_00: We don't really sell it.
6:37
SPEAKER_00: I was like, you've got a gap in your business.
6:39
SPEAKER_00: I'll come in, be self-employed, no salary, I'll do it all for you if you just give me the opportunity.
6:44
SPEAKER_00: So my MD said, you know what, do the first bit of your CMAP qualification just to see if I was serious or not.
6:50
SPEAKER_00: So I did the first bit, showed in the certificate that I passed, and then I just started and kind of figured it out from there.
6:56
SPEAKER_00: And then during that time, I got fully CMAP qualified.
6:58
SPEAKER_00: So I've got parts one, two, and three.
7:00
SPEAKER_00: But for me, it was again, like I said, seeing a gap where there's a lot of misinformation about protection and a lot of people don't want to do it, also.
7:08
SPEAKER_00: I was like, okay, for me, that that's less competition.
7:11
SPEAKER_00: So that's that's the reason why.
7:13
SPEAKER_02: Talk to me about that then.
7:15
SPEAKER_02: So why, you know, when you say people don't want to do it, so you've you saw this gap in the market where you know people are buying properties and nobody's talking to them about protection, right?
7:23
SPEAKER_02: And you'll think, well, why is why is nobody talking about protection?
7:26
SPEAKER_02: So is it because it takes time?
7:31
SPEAKER_02: Is it because it doesn't pay the financial advisor perhaps enough money?
7:35
SPEAKER_02: Is it what why why do people not talk about protection in your eyes then?
7:40
SPEAKER_00: Very good question.
7:41
SPEAKER_00: Again, I've got a lot of mortgage broker friends.
7:44
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to cast them all the same.
7:45
SPEAKER_00: Some mortgage brokers don't really understand it.
7:48
SPEAKER_00: Right.
7:48
SPEAKER_00: Or they don't want to do it, or it gets complicated with medicals.
7:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, sometimes they they've got the client are happy.
7:55
SPEAKER_00: I've got you this property, it's amazing.
7:56
SPEAKER_00: Then, oh yeah, by the way, if you die, you know, you might lose it.
7:59
SPEAKER_00: They might not necessarily want to have that conversation, which is fine.
8:03
SPEAKER_00: So the first company I work for, it worked really well.
8:05
SPEAKER_00: Like you guys are experts on the mortgages, do that bit, and I'll come in and do this bit because you know, I feel you know it should be responsible that if you're gonna give someone a massive debt, you need to explain as well.
8:16
SPEAKER_00: Look, it can get taken away.
8:18
SPEAKER_00: And to answer your question, some people don't feel comfortable having that conversation.
8:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, but for me, because I do it more as a business plan or family plan, I don't really look at it like that.
8:28
SPEAKER_00: Again, it's got sometimes negative connotations where some people might have sold life insurance and they're pressurizing them and all this stuff and they're scaring them.
8:35
SPEAKER_00: I don't, you don't need to do that.
8:37
SPEAKER_00: It's straightforward.
8:38
SPEAKER_00: We all know we're gonna die, we just don't know when.
8:39
SPEAKER_00: And it's positioning it in a way that someone understands it.
8:42
SPEAKER_00: So again, back to the property bit, I'm thinking if you've got a million pounds worth of mortgages, which is very doable in London and Bristol, that could be like one house somewhere, right?
8:52
SPEAKER_00: If someone does pass away and the family can't pay that mortgage, then the lender is gonna take that property back and it's gonna end at auction, right?
9:01
SPEAKER_00: So I don't really like auctions because again, it's through whatever reason, and I would like to know the start of how many people's properties end up in auction because someone's died and they've not had the insurance.
9:12
SPEAKER_00: I would like to find that out.
9:14
SPEAKER_00: Whatever information, it could be someone got made redundant, which has happened to me, you know, it's part of the part of the game when you're self-employed as well.
9:20
SPEAKER_00: And all that energy and effort you put into that property, that asset, that family home, especially catchment area for kids, and it can get taken away from you.
9:28
SPEAKER_00: So it's just, you know, making people aware of it.
9:31
SPEAKER_00: And again, because I've got a property background, I've set up my own property company.
9:35
SPEAKER_00: I understand exactly why property people are doing it, but it's putting it in a way where look, whatever you want to do business-wise, property-wise, that's fine.
9:44
SPEAKER_00: Just make sure the insurance matches it like that's it.
9:46
SPEAKER_00: And it's putting it in a way.
9:48
SPEAKER_00: But again, because I've been through that journey from not knowing anything about property to helping a family in London buy property up north, which I had no experience about.
9:56
SPEAKER_00: So I've brokered that deal all by myself.
9:58
SPEAKER_00: And again, I've said it my company, I understand how property investors think, what they want to do, and all the strategies of doing it, but just being responsible because we all have car insurance if you drive, it's a legal requirement.
10:09
SPEAKER_00: We've got phone insurance, we have content insurance for contents that aren't worth anything.
10:13
SPEAKER_00: But when it comes to life insurance, there's just a stigma with it.
10:16
SPEAKER_00: So I got approached by Vitality a week ago to work with them, just to bring awareness.
10:21
SPEAKER_00: So for me, that's huge that I'm still, you know, early in my career, but a big company that vitality want to, you know, work with me.
10:27
SPEAKER_00: And we just have a conversation like we're having now, like what are the myths and misconceptions of the industry?
10:33
SPEAKER_00: And it's huge, you know, and just to bring awareness.
10:36
SPEAKER_00: That's why I feel now social media, especially LinkedIn, Instagram, and Facebook, is really good, just to remind people, even you know, wills, people always say, Yeah, I'll get to it, I'll get to it, or my life insurance, I'll do it later.
10:47
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, it's just going to be more expensive in the long run.
10:49
SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't make the rules, but the older you are, the more likely it's gonna cost you more money.
10:54
SPEAKER_00: So I think social media is good and brands as well, partnering with people, just say, look, this is why, because again, we're not taught it.
11:01
SPEAKER_00: And depending on your mortgage broker, you might have a really great mortgage advisor, I mean mortgage broker, sorry, and does everything and it's fine, but you might have a mortgage broker that doesn't want to do it or forgets, or someone that's not very good or qualified as well.
11:12
SPEAKER_00: So it all depends.
11:13
SPEAKER_00: But I think the more we have the conversation, the more people are aware of it, the better it is for everyone.
11:19
SPEAKER_02: Okay, cool.
11:20
SPEAKER_02: So when it comes to life assurance, and you're dealing, say, with property developers and investors, yeah.
11:26
SPEAKER_02: So quite large sums of money more than likely, used to buying multiple properties, perhaps have portfolios of properties.
11:33
SPEAKER_02: How many of those types of investors, those sophisticated property investors, how many of them just don't have life assurance?
11:41
SPEAKER_00: And again, when I did my my property business a lot.
11:45
SPEAKER_00: Right.
11:45
SPEAKER_00: Because again, it's just it's either perception or they don't really understand it or they just don't have it.
11:50
SPEAKER_00: So I'm just thinking again, when I first got into insurance over two years ago, the end goal.
11:57
SPEAKER_00: So again, you've got a million pounds worth of property, which sounds like a lot, it's really not, right?
12:01
SPEAKER_00: Especially down south.
12:02
SPEAKER_00: Again, it might be one property.
12:04
SPEAKER_00: What is the point in you investing all the time and energy in these properties to pass on you don't have life insurance, you don't have a will, you don't have a trust.
12:14
SPEAKER_00: And you'd be amazed 99% of people like, oh or they have life insurance and they haven't had a review.
12:21
SPEAKER_00: So, for example, you might have your residential home, you've got five by to let's up north, 100 grand each on the mortgage, that's that's half a million.
12:30
SPEAKER_00: That's you're still exposed.
12:33
SPEAKER_00: And it's again, it's that awareness.
12:34
SPEAKER_00: So that I'm I'm going to Bournemouth tomorrow for the second time.
12:37
SPEAKER_00: So I spoke at Progressive Property Bournemouth last month, did a really good job, and now I'm coming down as the expert speaker again tomorrow.
12:44
SPEAKER_00: And I'm going up and down the country because I'm passionate about it.
12:48
SPEAKER_00: And I understand all these people trying to get into property to help themselves and their family and all this other stuff.
12:53
SPEAKER_00: But again, it's just be responsible with it.
12:56
SPEAKER_00: Like that, that's all just bringing awareness to it.
12:58
SPEAKER_02: This is also about, you know, if that property investor's got a hundred, you know, I don't know, half a million quids worth of uh of mortgages, right?
13:04
SPEAKER_02: So they haven't got the they don't own the properties, they've borrowed the money to get the properties.
13:08
SPEAKER_02: Now they've got all the best intentions of the world for building that portfolio to make some money so their family has a great life and they're secure, right?
13:15
SPEAKER_02: Uh and in a situation where that person potentially might die, it could, well, this is the thing, you could either die or more than likely get a critical illness, right?
13:23
SPEAKER_02: You know, you get some sort of illness that's going to debilitate you, yeah, and stop you from being able to raise the money to be able to pay those, uh, to pay those um those mortgage payments, or perhaps an illness that is um not critical, but what's the word?
13:37
SPEAKER_02: You're going to die.
13:38
SPEAKER_02: What's it called?
13:38
SPEAKER_02: Like terminal illness.
13:40
SPEAKER_00: It's where you have 12 months or less.
13:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:42
SPEAKER_02: Terminal, yeah.
13:43
SPEAKER_02: And obviously, when you go when you have a terminal illness and you know that you're going to be going, hey, it's pretty sad.
13:49
SPEAKER_02: It's horrible.
13:50
SPEAKER_02: And there's a lot of pressure and a lot of stress within the family.
13:52
SPEAKER_02: But by having some protection in place that that protects you and covers you in that event, at least you know that your family are looked after on your passing.
14:01
SPEAKER_02: And it could be often often be, it could often be quite selfish to not have that protection in place.
14:06
SPEAKER_00: Do you feel I wish you could say that to my clients.
14:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think you I think you raised a very good point about the mortgages, right?
14:15
SPEAKER_00: It's perception.
14:16
SPEAKER_00: And I think, especially in the UK where home ownership is just pushing off bases all the time, it's so important, blah, blah, blah, blah.
14:23
SPEAKER_00: Other countries in the world, it's not like that, it's not that big a deal, right?
14:26
SPEAKER_00: Here it's like the major thing.
14:28
SPEAKER_00: You're right.
14:29
SPEAKER_00: Until you pay off that mortgage, you don't own it.
14:34
SPEAKER_00: And that might shock people.
14:35
SPEAKER_00: Like, no, no, I've got more than I own it.
14:36
SPEAKER_00: Like, well, then if you own it, why does your lender send you in the post each month you owe X amount if you own it?
14:44
SPEAKER_00: But people don't think like that.
14:47
SPEAKER_00: It's like if you lease a car, you don't own it, you're leasing it, BMW or Mercedes, or whoever owns it, and then you have the option at the end if you want to pay it or not.
14:55
SPEAKER_00: And I think, yeah, again, it's perception.
14:57
SPEAKER_00: Like, yes, I've got this residential property or a bicep property, it's amazing, gonna get all this stuff.
15:02
SPEAKER_00: But until you clear the mortgage balance, you don't own it.
15:04
SPEAKER_00: No, okay.
15:05
SPEAKER_00: And again, they're different strategies.
15:07
SPEAKER_00: So there's one called buyer refurbished refinance, where you'll get a property that's that's not that great and you'll deal it up, you'll add value.
15:14
SPEAKER_00: Okay, let's say you add on another bedroom, another bathroom, right?
15:16
SPEAKER_00: It goes at 50 grand, fine.
15:18
SPEAKER_00: Remortgage it, great.
15:19
SPEAKER_00: You've got 50,000 cash, do what you want with.
15:22
SPEAKER_00: So you do it again.
15:23
SPEAKER_00: That's the property strategy.
15:24
SPEAKER_00: But you doing that makes you more exposed again because you've taken on more debt.
15:29
SPEAKER_00: So because I've been through the whole property journey, I've set up my own property company.
15:32
SPEAKER_00: I understand, okay, fine, you're going to refinance all these properties, but again, your life insurance needs to match that.
15:39
SPEAKER_00: Doesn't matter what the amount is, whether it's residential, buy to let.
15:42
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of property investors just say, oh, well, the tenant will pay the mortgage.
15:47
SPEAKER_00: No, they're paying the interest, right?
15:49
SPEAKER_00: You still have that balloon payment at the end of year 2530, right?
15:54
SPEAKER_00: That you need to pay in all at once.
15:57
SPEAKER_00: Have you even got a strategy for that?
15:59
SPEAKER_00: So when I speak to clients, yeah, do I do protection?
16:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:02
SPEAKER_00: But it's more making the client aware of what you are doing with your business and all this other stuff.
16:07
SPEAKER_00: Are you prepared for it?
16:09
SPEAKER_00: So I'm saying, okay, what is the strategy with these portfolio?
16:11
SPEAKER_00: Are you going to pay them all off?
16:12
SPEAKER_00: Are you going to pay half of them off?
16:14
SPEAKER_00: And some majority of the time, clients don't know.
16:17
SPEAKER_00: But again, because I come from that corporate background of HSBC, the lawyer, visa, all that other stuff, these are multi-billion pound companies where they plan hundreds of years in advance.
16:27
SPEAKER_00: So I'm used to that.
16:28
SPEAKER_00: And when I did the ring fencing project with HSBC, that's all about risk.
16:32
SPEAKER_00: And what the everyday person doesn't normally get is when I work for all these banks, especially RBS and the credit department, you say, look, I want to get a hundred thousand pound business loan because I'm going to expand the recruitment company.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: Okay, fine.
16:45
SPEAKER_00: So we'll go through your history, how long you've been doing it for, how much do you earn all this.
16:49
SPEAKER_00: And then we'll put in there if you mess up where we need something is collateral, right?
16:54
SPEAKER_00: With the with the lender with the bank.
16:56
SPEAKER_00: So we'll just put your house, which is called a personal guarantee.
16:59
SPEAKER_00: So the these big businesses always protect their interests at the beginning.
17:03
SPEAKER_00: So again, Sam, you want a mortgage?
17:04
SPEAKER_00: Okay, fine, we'll give you$100,000 mortgage, but you're gonna give us cash down, 5%, 10%, whatever.
17:10
SPEAKER_00: And oh yeah, if you mess up, we'll take it off you.
17:12
SPEAKER_00: So they're gonna win, doesn't matter.
17:14
SPEAKER_00: If you pay the mortgage off, fine, but they made the money on the interest, correct?
17:18
SPEAKER_00: Or everyone be buying properties cash, right?
17:20
SPEAKER_00: Unless you do that maybe somewhere where it's like 50, 100 grand, which you can do, fine.
17:25
SPEAKER_00: But most people, you're gonna need the mortgage.
17:27
SPEAKER_00: So I feel my role, how I've come into industry, is to make people think more like a business than oh, I'm just doing this and I hope it pants.
17:35
SPEAKER_00: No, because a lot of people get into financial difficulties with that.
17:39
SPEAKER_00: So at a property event I went to in London last month, one person was having a lot of property and with bridging, which is unregulated.
17:47
SPEAKER_00: Now, when COVID hit, if you had a residential home, you could go to your lender, depending on who it was, and get a mortgage holiday for six months where you, you know, had a mortgage break, which was huge for millions of people.
17:59
SPEAKER_00: But because he was unregulated, they didn't do that because it's a different thing altogether.
18:04
SPEAKER_00: And it's again making people financially aware of all these other things.
18:08
SPEAKER_00: And the reason why I'm passionate about protection, especially with the property bit, I know how hard it is to save to buy and how difficult the whole process is.
18:16
SPEAKER_00: And just because you haven't taken out a policy of X amount, all that could be gone.
18:21
SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't have to be, right?
18:24
SPEAKER_00: We all get in the car, we drive, we put a seat on, we don't think we're gonna crash, but we're conditioned to get car insurance.
18:30
SPEAKER_00: So why shouldn't we be conditioned to get it if you're taking out a big debt?
18:34
SPEAKER_00: Doesn't matter if it's a mortgage or not.
18:36
SPEAKER_02: Is that because more so if you get into a car accident and you don't have insurance, then it's affecting well, obviously, in you having a home.
18:47
SPEAKER_02: Let's say, for example, I was a single person, I bought a home and I didn't have life recover, right?
18:51
SPEAKER_02: And I think, well, if I die, I'm dead anyway, what does it matter?
18:53
SPEAKER_02: The bank can have my can have my house because no one else is going to benefit from it.
18:56
SPEAKER_02: So you can kind of think about it in that way.
18:58
SPEAKER_02: And when you're driving in a car, if you crash your car into somebody, then you need to have insurance to be able to pay the other person's damages or injuries and and and medic medical care and all of that if if they were to have it.
19:10
SPEAKER_02: So I can see that and understand that.
19:12
SPEAKER_02: When I was working for Aviva, um underneath NatWest Life.
19:19
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
19:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
19:20
SPEAKER_02: So RBS and did joint venture with Aviva and had NatWest Life, and they had level term assurances and decreasing term assurances.
19:27
SPEAKER_02: And some of those were like sort of short props, and some of those were long props.
19:32
SPEAKER_02: So one of the things I think when I used to speak to people on the phone, because I ran a team in the customer service department, and one of the kind of biggest things we came up against, mainly with men, was this fear of being exposed for something on their medical records.
19:52
SPEAKER_02: So they didn't want somebody prying into their medical records, and that was often an excuse as to why they didn't want life cover.
19:58
SPEAKER_02: Well, I didn't want, you know, I don't want to go through the hassle and the rigmarole of somebody having to go through all my my details.
20:03
SPEAKER_02: Because on a short proposition, it was like a tick box thing.
20:06
SPEAKER_02: You've never had a heart attack, you've never had this, that, and the other.
20:08
SPEAKER_02: And once you go through that, you auto-execute it, you've agreed that you've had none of those things.
20:12
SPEAKER_02: And if you were to die, and that was the case that that was the case on your medical record, then a payment would be made.
20:16
SPEAKER_02: But if something came up, say, for example, that you suffered from depression, then that would cause the underwriter to want more information.
20:24
SPEAKER_02: And often I used to speak to people and they would gone, you know, they may have gone through depression and suicidal thoughts or something, and they were they were over it.
20:31
SPEAKER_02: Like two, three years later, they were over it.
20:34
SPEAKER_02: And then I was witnessing the underwriters digging up all this information, rightfully wanting to know more.
20:40
SPEAKER_02: I get that, because obviously they're taking out some insurance in somebody's life.
20:44
SPEAKER_02: But like, but uh, but it's a hassle, isn't it?
20:47
SPEAKER_02: And that's where people get a bit like neggy.
20:49
SPEAKER_02: And I found people got neggy around it when when it started going digging into their medical records.
20:53
SPEAKER_02: You get you come up against that sort of thing.
20:54
SPEAKER_00: That's a good, that's a very good point, the medical bit.
20:57
SPEAKER_00: I always meditate in the right for my clients anyway, right?
20:59
SPEAKER_00: Even if they say I'm fit, if you're 18, I'm fit and healthy.
21:02
SPEAKER_00: I don't care, I'm underwriting it.
21:03
SPEAKER_00: Because certain questions come up, oh yeah, my dad had this, or actually, we've got a history, a family history of this, or actually I had a you know, a regular heartbeat.
21:13
SPEAKER_00: I'm very passionate about that because I don't want to give you a quote, put you as you've got good health, and then something happens, and then you can't claim out, you can't get a payout.
21:23
SPEAKER_00: So for me, I'm always manipulated by my clients, doesn't matter how big or small it is a wage, because it's important because you forget.
21:29
SPEAKER_00: And with your point as well that you made, which was great about depression, that's just a natural thing, right?
21:34
SPEAKER_00: And there's so many of my clients where they've suffered from something, right?
21:39
SPEAKER_00: No one is I'm healthy on the outside looking, and everyone says that, but they're not.
21:45
SPEAKER_00: Things like high blood pressure, um, cholesterol, BMI, all these little things, like it's important.
21:51
SPEAKER_00: And the reason why I'm medically underwrite is I feel both parties, the person and the insurer, are on the same page.
21:58
SPEAKER_00: So someone says, Oh, I can lie on it.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: The application, like, why would you do that?
22:02
SPEAKER_00: Anything my clients tell me, I'm gonna believe it.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: And to be honest with you, I my clients are quite good.
22:08
SPEAKER_00: So even the medical stuff will go through it and it's fine.
22:11
SPEAKER_00: It's just it just takes time.
22:13
SPEAKER_00: That's the difficult bit.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: But I think again, my um unfortunately, my clients, they're fine with me asking those questions.
22:18
SPEAKER_00: I've never had anyone say no.
22:20
SPEAKER_00: And two, sometimes it just reminds people like you say you're helping you're helping all this other stuff, you're building this property business, but you're at high risk of passing away because you've got high blood pressure or whatever it is, and it just reminds them, oh, you're not immortal, you know, immortal.
22:34
SPEAKER_00: And people said, Oh, COVID must have been great for the insurance industry.
22:37
SPEAKER_00: I don't think it's made any difference, to be honest with you.
22:40
SPEAKER_00: People always still put in the off or I'll do it later, or it's too much.
22:43
SPEAKER_00: And it's like they're not understanding the value in it, they're looking at the monthly payment.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: But let's say it's a million pounds, right?
22:49
SPEAKER_00: You've got£100 a month.
22:50
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I've got£100 a month.
22:52
SPEAKER_00: But your car loan, your car leases£500, which is a depreciated asset, which your family don't get any benefit from.
22:59
SPEAKER_00: It's mindset.
23:00
SPEAKER_00: People are happy to spend£500 on a car just to show off, then protect everything that they've got.
23:06
SPEAKER_00: Again, it's it's mindset and perception.
23:08
SPEAKER_00: Again, night hour in London, it's gonna cost you every£100.
23:11
SPEAKER_00: And people do that every week, not every month.
23:14
SPEAKER_00: Again, so it's it's perception.
23:16
SPEAKER_02: It's where people are valuable.
23:17
SPEAKER_02: Do you think people are also they put life assurance to one side and don't value it because they'd rather have they really they almost push themselves to the limits and to how much they can borrow when it comes to the mortgage to be able to buy that house they want, you know, that bigger house or that larger that look to get that larger mortgage.
23:34
SPEAKER_02: And when it comes down to it, and all of a sudden they're like, oh shit, I've got to actually get some life assurance now.
23:38
SPEAKER_02: And then something comes up, and all of a sudden the quotes you're getting is 70, 80, 90 pounds a month.
23:42
SPEAKER_02: And to some that's a lot of money, but then they're just thinking, oh, I can't, I can't, I'll I'll do that when I earn more money.
23:48
SPEAKER_02: I'm healthy, I'm I'm okay.
23:50
SPEAKER_00: I get I get that a lot.
23:51
SPEAKER_00: And that the the mad thing is everyone just thinks life insurance costs 50 pounds.
23:55
SPEAKER_00: I don't know where they're getting that from.
23:57
SPEAKER_00: And I've got clients, all different backgrounds, all different ages.
24:00
SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's got to be 50 pounds.
24:01
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, we need to see the medical first.
24:03
SPEAKER_00: And again, I had a client um last week and she's got anemia, which is fine, it's under control, but it needs further medical underwriting.
24:11
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, the price I've given you might go up.
24:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, but they've just got this figure in their head because they think they might link it to car insurance, and it's like, it's this figure, and that's it, or can I reduce it?
24:21
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, you can reduce it, that's fine.
24:23
SPEAKER_00: But just know that my job as a minimum is to make sure all your mortgages are covered because that's a big asset, it's big debt.
24:30
SPEAKER_00: And if you want extra stuff, fine, and we'll talk about it.
24:32
SPEAKER_00: But again, it's your your a good point of most clients don't see the value in paying for it, or I don't I don't benefit from it.
24:39
SPEAKER_00: But in the UK, especially London, where I live, the price of property is so expensive, even if you're on a good salary, it's still difficult.
24:47
SPEAKER_00: You're gonna need help, right?
24:49
SPEAKER_00: And if if you've got, you know, it's unfortunate if someone passes away, but if they're giving you a tax-free lump sum, because my clients are put it in trust with them, that can help you buy another property.
24:58
SPEAKER_00: That can help maintain all this family living.
25:01
SPEAKER_00: So that whole generational wealth thing, for me, you can't have generational wealth if you don't have the different generations talking about it in the same room.
25:09
SPEAKER_00: And that's another thing with clients.
25:10
SPEAKER_00: They do all these things for their kids.
25:11
SPEAKER_00: But I always say, like, does your child like property?
25:15
SPEAKER_00: Are they financially literate?
25:16
SPEAKER_00: Do you trust them?
25:17
SPEAKER_00: Oh no, mom.
25:18
SPEAKER_00: Then why are you doing it then?
25:20
SPEAKER_00: Do you want to?
25:20
SPEAKER_00: Because people, I think they get so caught up, especially we love property in this country, and people are rushing out, they do property course, I'm not gonna name any, they max out their credit cards to get the deposit, they're doing all these things, and they're not planning at all.
25:34
SPEAKER_00: Like I said, my corporate background is we're planning for decades, you know, hundreds of years for stuff.
25:40
SPEAKER_00: When prop I live where I live Berkeley Development is environment, all these big developers, they've planned that.
25:46
SPEAKER_00: It's not an accident, they're they're building where they are.
25:48
SPEAKER_00: But look at even Canary Wolf, it was nothing.
25:51
SPEAKER_00: They've planned that, and they these figures said that's how big businesses are.
25:55
SPEAKER_00: So my job is just to bring awareness to that, put the insurance bit to one side.
25:59
SPEAKER_00: That's what I'm passionate about.
26:00
SPEAKER_00: My job, that's just a byproduct of it, but it's getting people thinking, why are you doing this?
26:04
SPEAKER_00: What plans and procedures do you have?
26:06
SPEAKER_00: When I did a placement year for a Bosch German company in Worcester, that was my first job during placement at 21.
26:14
SPEAKER_00: German people are so efficient.
26:15
SPEAKER_00: They plan everything, they've got for everything.
26:17
SPEAKER_00: That's just how they're wired.
26:18
SPEAKER_00: And even though I was there for a year, I've taken that with me.
26:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, this is how I've used always have a plan, plan A, plan B, plan C, how are we going to do all these things, all these conditions plans?
26:28
SPEAKER_00: That's just how they're they're wired.
26:30
SPEAKER_00: We just don't have that.
26:31
SPEAKER_00: And I feel as well, it's kind of dangerous if people going out buying mortgages, doing all these things, remortgaging, taking out more debt, and they're not thinking if it can go wrong.
26:41
SPEAKER_00: And again, that might be on the mortgage broker, it could be on the IFA, but you know, my job is irrelevant.
26:46
SPEAKER_00: My job is to make everyone aware anyway.
26:48
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter if you've got a mortgage broker, just be aware of it.
26:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
26:51
SPEAKER_02: And also it's peace of mind, isn't it?
26:53
SPEAKER_02: You know, it's that selling that peace of mind to somebody because you're not gonna, you buy an insurance, you know, you however much it is per month, you buy your insurance, you don't get something you can hold tangible.
27:02
SPEAKER_02: It's you're getting peace of mind.
27:03
SPEAKER_02: And I think we often push things and minimize things, push things down, minimize it, but it doesn't go away.
27:10
SPEAKER_02: You know, if I get a speeding fine or a ticket, got a few of those.
27:14
SPEAKER_02: If I don't pay it straight away, it's always there, niggling in the back of my mind.
27:18
SPEAKER_02: 70 quid, I've got to pay that, I've got to pay that.
27:20
SPEAKER_02: Even if I think I don't want to pay it, like I didn't, you know, I shouldn't have to pay it because I I I paid at I you know, I paid at the parking meter or whatever it might well be, it's always niggling away in the back of my mind.
27:29
SPEAKER_02: And I think it's exactly the same with life assurance.
27:32
SPEAKER_02: And I think if you if you pay it and you have it and it's in place and you know that if anything ever happened to you or to your partner or whoever's covered, you know you're covered, therefore you're karma.
27:43
SPEAKER_02: So it's peace of mind.
27:44
SPEAKER_02: It's a well-being proposition protection, isn't it?
27:46
SPEAKER_02: Which is why financial advisors they always start with protection.
27:49
SPEAKER_02: They look at your protection.
27:50
SPEAKER_02: How are you protected if something was going to happen to you?
27:52
SPEAKER_02: If you were to die, or if you were to get ill, what would happen?
27:54
SPEAKER_02: And then we're gonna look at your pension.
27:55
SPEAKER_02: When do you want to retire?
27:56
SPEAKER_02: You know, what age?
27:57
SPEAKER_02: How much are you saving for?
27:59
SPEAKER_02: That's really, really important.
28:00
SPEAKER_02: And then we'll look at the investment stuff at the end.
28:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, at the end, yeah.
28:03
SPEAKER_02: You know, and because that's how it works, and that's what gives people that peace of mind.
28:06
SPEAKER_02: Now, with you yourself then going into protection, then let's talk about that, okay?
28:10
SPEAKER_02: Because how long have you been working in a protection role for, Adrian?
28:12
SPEAKER_00: Uh for about two years now, I think.
28:14
SPEAKER_02: About two years, yeah.
28:15
SPEAKER_02: Okay, great.
28:17
SPEAKER_02: People listening to this podcast are very much interested in the financial planning profession.
28:21
SPEAKER_02: And getting into financial planning can be quite difficult.
28:24
SPEAKER_02: There's routes in through administration and power planning if you're lucky enough to go down that route, or getting your qualifications and getting in with a firm or academies.
28:33
SPEAKER_02: It's there's no clear-cut route like it is as a solicitor or an accountant.
28:36
SPEAKER_02: But one of the things I often often get overlooked is the route into becoming a financial advisor, but starting in protection.
28:46
SPEAKER_02: So let's just talk about how you know that step into protection.
28:49
SPEAKER_02: Let's just talk about what your first six months looked like in a protection role.
28:52
SPEAKER_02: What were you doing?
28:53
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
28:54
SPEAKER_00: What was it like?
28:55
SPEAKER_00: So, my advice for anyone that wants to do it, I the the hardest thing about this job is finding clients, right?
29:01
SPEAKER_00: Especially if you're self-employed like myself.
29:04
SPEAKER_00: So when I went into it, self-employed, I kind of partnered with a mortgage broken firm.
29:10
SPEAKER_00: So, like we are experts in mortgages, and we'll just send the client to you, and then you'll you'll get experience and you'll get better, and then you'll get your own clients.
29:17
SPEAKER_00: I think that is probably the best way because any business, where are you getting your clients from?
29:23
SPEAKER_00: Social media is great and all these likes and comments, cool, but how much money are you making from it?
29:28
SPEAKER_00: That's what I always ask someone.
29:30
SPEAKER_00: People get very vain about social media, about how many followers you've got and all this other stuff.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: And I've you've got you've probably seen on LinkedIn people saying people shouldn't be doing it.
29:38
SPEAKER_00: It's a business forum, all this other stuff.
29:40
SPEAKER_00: I'll just say, look, I've done a video, I've got paid off it.
29:42
SPEAKER_00: It took me 30 seconds, I've got paid.
29:45
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I think there's there's benefit from it.
29:48
SPEAKER_00: It's again, it's it's mindset.
29:50
SPEAKER_00: But to answer your question, I would say if you're gonna do protection only, partner with someone to help you get the leads because it can be difficult.
29:58
SPEAKER_00: So again, I've got stuff where some might be stuck in medicals for months, or people change their mind, or something comes up, it's not straightforward, and then you're you're gonna be struggling.
30:07
SPEAKER_00: So always partner with someone.
30:09
SPEAKER_00: Um, maybe go employed as well.
30:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, when I was working for HSBC and B's with all these contracts, I was self-employed anyway.
30:16
SPEAKER_00: So I had a limited company.
30:18
SPEAKER_00: So when I do speak to people who were trying to make that jump from being employed to self-employed, I've got experience in that anyway.
30:24
SPEAKER_00: So my calls are kind of different.
30:26
SPEAKER_00: They know there's been about insurance, but there's all this other stuff from my career that I talk to them about.
30:31
SPEAKER_00: Whether should I go, should I do property training?
30:33
SPEAKER_00: Should I do this?
30:34
SPEAKER_00: What strategy should I go?
30:35
SPEAKER_00: It's all this other stuff, and you know, insurance is a byproduct of it as well.
30:39
SPEAKER_00: Because again, people don't don't you don't know what you don't know.
30:43
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes people are scared to make their own decision or they just want to speak to some with advice in, you know, doing a limit company, buying property, protecting all of this stuff.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: So with me, you're not getting the insurance bit, you're getting all this other stuff as well.
30:56
SPEAKER_02: So uh somebody sort of transferring their skills across into selling protection, you know, having a real interest in property is a real benefit to the role because you're catching people at a point in their lives where they're either buying their first home or their second home, or if they're investors, you know, they've got multiple portfolios.
31:13
SPEAKER_02: So having that knowledge and understanding about properties, how it works, why people invest in property, how to get people excited about it, then you can kind of all then you can kind of go in there with the attack with the approach of like, well, what are you doing about protecting yourself?
31:25
SPEAKER_02: Because you know, you probably haven't really thought about that.
31:28
SPEAKER_00: But the and also the thing is, because again, it's it's this thing called a property circuit, right?
31:32
SPEAKER_00: So there's networking events all around the country.
31:36
SPEAKER_00: And because I've been in it for four years, I was like, no one speaks about protection.
31:40
SPEAKER_00: Like I'm now again, I'm going to Bournemouth next week.
31:43
SPEAKER_00: No, sorry, tomorrow.
31:44
SPEAKER_00: I've done I think five different cities in about three months because there's a need for it.
31:50
SPEAKER_00: And because if I do a good job, I know they'll it's word of mouth, but yes, I've got another one.
31:55
SPEAKER_00: So I'm doing down south now, and then when the weather gets better, I've got north.
32:02
SPEAKER_00: So answer your question, like there's there's a need for it, you know.
32:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's a definite need for it out there, and we're seeing more and more companies growing their protection teams as well.
32:11
SPEAKER_02: It was only last week I had two companies contact me asking me for protection advisors on an employed and self-employed basis.
32:17
SPEAKER_02: So the need it need for protection advisors is definitely out there, and you start, and and I think you touched on a good point there as well.
32:22
SPEAKER_02: And social media, you know, I'm seeing more and more protection advisors speak up and talk about the subject and um do it with some interest as well.
32:31
SPEAKER_02: You know, they're making because it is it's a touchy subject, isn't it?
32:34
SPEAKER_00: You know, or what I mean, it depends.
32:36
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you've got some people that dress up, which is great.
32:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, I think Lee Falagan is really good.
32:42
SPEAKER_00: He speaks a lot.
32:43
SPEAKER_00: My stuff is more awareness, but I want people to understand what it is.
32:48
SPEAKER_00: So even with my client, we'll go through the policy like line by line.
32:51
SPEAKER_00: Like, is there anything that you don't understand?
32:53
SPEAKER_00: And I spend a lot of time with my clients.
32:56
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's it's hours and hours and hours.
32:58
SPEAKER_00: It's not just a 10-minute thing with me.
32:59
SPEAKER_00: Like, I want you to understand it because if you're paying this premium, it doesn't matter how much it's each month.
33:04
SPEAKER_00: I want you to understand it.
33:05
SPEAKER_00: Because what happens is if there's financial difficulty, the first thing is to go is life insurance.
33:10
SPEAKER_00: They're not gonna cut Netflix, not gonna cut Spotify, they're gonna cut the insurance.
33:14
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I don't feel need for it.
33:15
SPEAKER_00: And then if something happens, you're exposed.
33:17
SPEAKER_00: Or two, if you go and do it later, you're gonna be older, you might have a medical condition, it's gonna cost you more.
33:22
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, what my cousin said is for me, the things that don't get cut, private medical, which you know, we can touch on a little bit later, private medical and life insurance, they don't get cut.
33:31
SPEAKER_00: And critical on this cover, everything else can get cut, the car can go back, you know, if I have to cut Netflix, whatever, fine.
33:36
SPEAKER_00: But those things, they're just part of it.
33:39
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, when I go through all this stuff with clients of different ages and abilities and things like that, it's just a look of, oh, like I wish I knew about this earlier.
33:49
SPEAKER_00: So I've got a client now who's 60, got a massive property portfolio, four kids, and it's gonna be high, right?
33:55
SPEAKER_00: And he's got a heart condition, so I know it's gonna be rated and it's gonna be in the hundreds.
34:00
SPEAKER_00: And when I was speaking to him going through it, the look on his face was just like, if I just done this 30 years ago, it'd be way cheaper and it's just done.
34:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't have to go through this, and I can see it on his face.
34:12
SPEAKER_00: So that's why for me, I'm a good point in my career where look, it's awareness.
34:16
SPEAKER_00: Just just do it, really.
34:18
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
34:18
SPEAKER_02: So somebody's looking to become a protection advisor, right?
34:21
SPEAKER_02: So someone's listening to this podcast and thinking, do you know what?
34:23
SPEAKER_02: I like the sound of protection.
34:24
SPEAKER_02: It's quite niche.
34:26
SPEAKER_02: Um, it gets me in front of clients, it gets me having these detailed, in-depth conversations, these fact-finding conversation conversations, things that a financial advisor would do, correct?
34:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
34:35
SPEAKER_02: Um, and it gets you also using your skills in sales.
34:41
SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, sales, consults, um, you don't sell all come on in sales.
34:47
SPEAKER_00: FC regulate, I consult, I don't sell.
34:50
SPEAKER_02: Well, consulting, uh, prospecting, picking the phone, prospecting, marketing yourself, all the skills that any good financial advisor or somebody within the profession, whether, you know, selling a service to a client, needs to have.
35:03
SPEAKER_02: So if someone's thinking about doing that, could they just literally walk out of their job, walk into a protection role, and all of a sudden become a protection advisor, or do they need to be qualified training?
35:12
SPEAKER_02: What happened with you then, Adrian?
35:14
SPEAKER_00: The question, it depends.
35:15
SPEAKER_00: So, my first company, they've said get the first bit of CMAP, which is good learning for anyone.
35:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then that's pretty much it.
35:23
SPEAKER_00: You don't have to be qualified.
35:25
SPEAKER_00: You can be 18 and do it.
35:27
SPEAKER_00: But I feel because you know, you're dealing with someone paying a monthly payment and it's a big thing.
35:34
SPEAKER_00: I personally feel everyone should be qualified to do protection.
35:37
SPEAKER_00: That's how I feel.
35:38
SPEAKER_00: So I know there is a protection qualification with the London Institute of Banking and Finance.
35:43
SPEAKER_00: I rang them last month, so look, do I need to do it?
35:45
SPEAKER_00: But because I'm CMAT qualified and there's a module of protection, I've already done it anyway, right?
35:49
SPEAKER_00: So I'm overqualified for the position, but I still feel it's important.
35:54
SPEAKER_00: And I also feel it builds credibility with clients.
35:56
SPEAKER_00: So with me having CMAP, yes, I can do mortgages.
35:59
SPEAKER_00: Everyone knows what that is, but I just specialize in protection.
36:03
SPEAKER_00: But but to answer your question, yeah, if you can get there's no harm in anything getting qualified before you do it or while you're doing it.
36:10
SPEAKER_00: But I just feel being qualified in anything.
36:13
SPEAKER_00: So when I was contracting with the banks, I did my Prince 2 qualification.
36:17
SPEAKER_00: That helped.
36:18
SPEAKER_00: If I didn't have Prince 2, I wouldn't have got all these other jobs because of it.
36:20
SPEAKER_00: Like it's it's paid for itself.
36:22
SPEAKER_00: And it's I feel it's important.
36:23
SPEAKER_00: It shows that you care about your craft, your profession, for the client.
36:26
SPEAKER_00: Like, look, I'm qualified.
36:28
SPEAKER_00: And it's not about sliding another advice and stuff off, but having CMAP, it differentiates you from everyone else that doesn't have it.
36:34
SPEAKER_00: You know, if I if I speak to a property investor, I've got a business, I've I've done it.
36:40
SPEAKER_00: It's different from, oh, I'm just gonna go to property vent to do a port night.
36:43
SPEAKER_00: No, I really know what it's like, you know, putting your money where your mouth is and setting it up and getting registered and doing property deals.
36:49
SPEAKER_00: I've done them.
36:50
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so you're right.
36:51
SPEAKER_00: It kind of came to me in I think 2020.
36:55
SPEAKER_00: So kind of mid-COVID, I didn't want to do consulting anymore, tired of it.
36:59
SPEAKER_00: Let me jump into property.
37:01
SPEAKER_00: Then I realized how hard it was to sell a multi-million pound property.
37:04
SPEAKER_00: It looks nice, but getting someone I was like, this is too long of a sales price, it's too transactional.
37:09
SPEAKER_00: I've worked with a mortgage broker as well.
37:12
SPEAKER_00: I thought about doing mortgages, but I just feel protection is different for me because again, I think my career, how I position it and talk about it.
37:19
SPEAKER_00: We don't talk about death and all that.
37:21
SPEAKER_00: We don't do that.
37:22
SPEAKER_00: It's what's your outstanding debt, what would happen if this didn't happen.
37:26
SPEAKER_00: Also with your kids, once you clear the mortgage, that's fine.
37:30
SPEAKER_00: How are they gonna live?
37:31
SPEAKER_00: Utility bills are expensive.
37:33
SPEAKER_00: If they want to go to certain schools, uni.
37:36
SPEAKER_00: So there's a product called family income benefit, um, which some people don't know about, where you basically get give give the family a monthly income, right?
37:44
SPEAKER_00: So let's say we clear your mortgage, that's done.
37:47
SPEAKER_00: Let's say your monthly bills are like a thousand pounds a month.
37:50
SPEAKER_00: We'll give you a family income benefit, a thousand pounds a month.
37:53
SPEAKER_00: So all the bills are covered.
37:54
SPEAKER_00: It can go up with inflation if you want as well, which called index if you choose to.
37:58
SPEAKER_00: And then we'll say, okay, until the kids hit 25.
38:01
SPEAKER_00: The reason why I say 25, 18, you are not financially independent.
38:05
SPEAKER_00: I don't care what anyone says.
38:07
SPEAKER_00: You probably live at home.
38:08
SPEAKER_00: Two, who's renting a place in London at 18 by themselves?
38:12
SPEAKER_00: Like it's expensive.
38:14
SPEAKER_00: So I think 25 is like reasonable for that as well.
38:18
SPEAKER_02: Okay, cool.
38:18
SPEAKER_02: So interesting, what you mentioned there about that type of product.
38:21
SPEAKER_02: So someone listening to this and saying, I want to get into protection, I want to work in protection.
38:26
SPEAKER_02: Does it work in the same way as like an IFA would go out and have multiple types of products or that they could that they could advise a client on?
38:33
SPEAKER_02: Does it work the same way in in protection?
38:36
SPEAKER_00: Kind of.
38:37
SPEAKER_00: So for me, so life insurance, like we discussed it straightforward.
38:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, critical illness, which you brought up about if you've got cancer, heart attack, stroke, something major, that could impact you your life, basically.
38:47
SPEAKER_00: That's another product.
38:48
SPEAKER_00: Income protection is is major, especially if you're self-employed.
38:52
SPEAKER_00: It's basically private sick pay.
38:54
SPEAKER_00: If you can't work due to an accident illness, as long as you've got a medical certificate, you give that to insurance provider and you get a monthly income.
39:02
SPEAKER_00: So again, it's it's making you not stress when you're you know you're not well.
39:06
SPEAKER_00: That's an important product.
39:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, family income benefit, which I touched on, is really good if you've got young children.
39:11
SPEAKER_00: It's a major product that people need to be more aware of.
39:14
SPEAKER_00: And then private medical, and which you touched on, especially in London.
39:18
SPEAKER_00: NHS is great, but the cues are long.
39:20
SPEAKER_00: And if you're ill and you don't know what's wrong with you, it's basically speed.
39:24
SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't, I don't have to sell private medical people, so I want it.
39:27
SPEAKER_00: And we just we just basically do the priority, it's it sells itself.
39:30
SPEAKER_00: I don't talk about private medical.
39:32
SPEAKER_00: They're the main ones that I do, and then also business um insurance as well, which again is talked about even less.
39:38
SPEAKER_00: So, again, from the property background, people JBing, which is a joint venture.
39:43
SPEAKER_00: So if me and you go into business together and we do property fine, if you die and all this other stuff, the business needs its own separate protection as well.
39:50
SPEAKER_00: That's a massive space, which people again don't talk about.
39:53
SPEAKER_00: Um, they're the main product.
39:55
SPEAKER_00: So um it's probably less than the IFA, but I think it's a good way to get into the industry, I'll put it that way.
40:02
SPEAKER_00: Because that's say not everyone is good at exams.
40:04
SPEAKER_00: They might not, they might struggle with CMA, they might not be a mortgage broker.
40:07
SPEAKER_00: That's fine.
40:08
SPEAKER_00: Protection, I think, is a good way to get in, see if you like it or not.
40:11
SPEAKER_00: And then you've got time, then okay, let me try mortgages, which I'm doing at the minute.
40:15
SPEAKER_00: And then after that, okay, I want to be an IFA, you've still got a grounding in this anyway.
40:20
SPEAKER_00: No matter what area you pick, whether you want to be a mortgage broker protection, IFA can still do protection as well.
40:25
SPEAKER_00: So if you've got that experience, it just helps.
40:28
SPEAKER_00: Then doing it again, because some IFAs and some mortgage brokers, they don't want to do the protection, whether it's time or they don't feel as is of value to them, like that's fine.
40:38
SPEAKER_00: But I always, like I said before, partnering with people.
40:41
SPEAKER_00: So I've got mortgage brokers where they're just too busy to do protection.
40:44
SPEAKER_00: So they send it to me and I work with their clients for them.
40:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, so again, if anyone is is busy and doesn't want to do protection, I help them with it, or they need people to get trained as well.
40:55
SPEAKER_00: I've got a company that I might um go to just to explain it to the mortgage brokers, because again, it's perception.
41:01
SPEAKER_00: And if we've got people in the industry who are qualified to sell protection or advice, sorry, advise on protection, and they don't understand and they're not confident, that's not fair on the client.
41:11
SPEAKER_00: And for you to not even bring it up because you don't feel comfortable, again, I think that's wrong as well.
41:16
SPEAKER_00: So that's another reason why I'm in it.
41:17
SPEAKER_00: So, again, not necessarily sell on behalf of someone or partner with them.
41:21
SPEAKER_00: If you want me to train the staff, then I'll do that as well because it's important.
41:27
SPEAKER_02: Adrian, so when it comes to life, and you you know, when you work within the role of financial planning, I'm gonna bring it back to financial planning, and they will charge a fee for the advice, like an upfront charge for the advice, the time perhaps it takes.
41:43
SPEAKER_02: And then they might charge an ongoing fee if there's any assets under management for that client.
41:48
SPEAKER_02: How does a protection advisor then charge?
41:52
SPEAKER_02: So if someone wants to work as a protection advisor, how how do they charge the client?
41:56
SPEAKER_02: How do they make the money?
41:58
SPEAKER_00: Okay, good question.
42:00
SPEAKER_00: Some providers, or depending on where you work, there's no fee for the client, and we get paid by the insurance provider.
42:07
SPEAKER_00: And that will be in the policy documents of the client.
42:09
SPEAKER_00: So they can see that, however, that amount, what it is, we don't, depending on what your setup is, we might not get all of that.
42:16
SPEAKER_00: It'll go to the company, and then there'll be insurances that get cut in different ways.
42:22
SPEAKER_00: Or um, as well, I feel with mortgages and protection, we should charge as well for our time because there's a lot of research that goes into it as well.
42:30
SPEAKER_00: So some companies who are protection advisor, they will charge, they might charge X amount for the first meeting and then maybe for the second, it depends.
42:38
SPEAKER_00: But I think that should be brought into the industry as well because we need to be treated like professionals, well, just like accountants and solicitors, where solicitors will bill you for the for their time and your expertise.
42:48
SPEAKER_00: So for me, even though I'm not, you know, IFA, this is still family planning, right?
42:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's still helping you, you know, be tax efficient.
42:57
SPEAKER_00: So I've got clients where I've saved them over a million pounds in tax.
43:00
SPEAKER_00: Just from doing simple maths of, you know, you're single, it's 325, the nil rate ban, you've got two million worth of mortgages.
43:06
SPEAKER_00: If you died, all that's getting taxed over at 40%.
43:09
SPEAKER_00: But with me, I'm gonna put it in trust.
43:10
SPEAKER_00: Like, I feel that's warranted a fee because again, it's educating people on things as well.
43:15
SPEAKER_00: So I really want to push for that industry where that becomes common.
43:17
SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, we should deserve to be charged a fee as well.
43:19
SPEAKER_00: Similar for some mortgage broker will charge your application a percentage of the loan or maybe 500 pounds or whatever.
43:25
SPEAKER_00: I feel protection, yeah, we should be charging people as well.
43:29
SPEAKER_00: Do you ever come across and also again, I think the client will be more engaged as well, then then oh, let me go money supermarket, right?
43:34
SPEAKER_00: And they'll just suck you from all your information.
43:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then go somewhere else as well.
43:37
SPEAKER_00: That happens quite a lot where I spend a lot of time educating the client, and then oh, just go on money supermarket.
43:42
SPEAKER_00: I was like, whoa, yeah, why are you yeah.
43:45
SPEAKER_02: I think you're right there.
43:46
SPEAKER_02: And I can understand why you would want to charge for your time and why mortgage advisors should charge for their time and why financial advisors, because you know, and look at recruitment as well, the amount of people that you know poke us for information.
44:00
SPEAKER_02: You know, and we're literally giving free information away because uh the way recruitment predominantly works on a contingency basis, where we don't get paid unless we place somebody.
44:09
SPEAKER_02: And like the amount of time and energy that goes into what we actually do where we don't get paid.
44:15
SPEAKER_02: And then people think we're crooks when we charge a percentage of what we think is enough to keep our business afloat, because 80% of the time we're giving away information.
44:23
SPEAKER_02: You know, and um it's a choice you make, isn't it?
44:26
SPEAKER_02: You either decide to charge up front for your time, um, or you charge at the end for the placement or for the piece of business that you therefore write.
44:35
SPEAKER_02: So just someone coming into the profession, though, as a protection advisor, you can be employed, you can be self-employed.
44:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
44:42
SPEAKER_02: It's either charging somebody for your time up front, or it's earning off the back of the commission that gets paid via the life assurance company.
44:53
SPEAKER_02: Now, if you're employed, for example, that might come into your business and you might have targets that you have to achieve and you might earn a bonus percentage upon that.
45:00
SPEAKER_02: If you're self-employed, for instance, you might have a target to bring in, say,£12,000 worth of uh fee income each month.
45:08
SPEAKER_02: And you might have a deal where 50% of that gets paid to you.
45:13
SPEAKER_02: So if you're writing 12 grand's worth of commission, yeah, fee income commission, you might earn 6,000 pounds a month.
45:19
SPEAKER_02: And it's not unusual for people within the profession of protection to earn some seriously good money.
45:23
SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's some that's a good point as well.
45:26
SPEAKER_00: I think if you I think if you've got longevity in this this profession, it can be really good.
45:32
SPEAKER_00: And that and that's the thing, it takes years to build up that client base.
45:35
SPEAKER_00: But when you know people come to you, there's renewals, things change, it can be a good thing.
45:40
SPEAKER_00: But it's just the initial bit of trying to get the client.
45:42
SPEAKER_00: So that's why, with you know, your earlier question of if you do want to do protection, I would say partner with someone and probably do the employed bit because then you're guaranteed a salary anyway.
45:53
SPEAKER_00: You know, learn it for a while.
45:54
SPEAKER_00: And then if you want to jump self-employed, I foolishly live self-employed from the beginning, which was kind of stupid, but I've done it now.
46:04
SPEAKER_02: So would you, you know, looking back and speaking to Adrian two years ago, would you tell Adrian not to go self-employed straight away and go down the employed route?
46:13
SPEAKER_02: That conversation with myself every day.
46:16
SPEAKER_00: But then it's also cliche if you don't, if you're not gonna jump, when are you?
46:21
SPEAKER_00: Right.
46:22
SPEAKER_00: So I've got a lot of clients where they've got good jobs and good incomes and they all want to do property.
46:26
SPEAKER_00: But I know and they know, they're never gonna do it because you're comfortable.
46:30
SPEAKER_00: When you're I know it's cliche, you're uncomfortable, but that's sink or swim, basically.
46:35
SPEAKER_00: You've got to you've got to do something.
46:37
SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
46:39
SPEAKER_02: Adrian, I'm gonna draw this to a close.
46:42
SPEAKER_02: So it's been really lovely talking to you today about protection.
46:45
SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for sharing a bit about your career and your thoughts around protection and why people should look to get into it.
46:49
SPEAKER_02: Because, like I said, we don't have many people come on the podcast who speak about the profession and and and shine a light on it.
46:55
SPEAKER_02: So I really, really appreciate it.
46:56
SPEAKER_02: And also, you know, anybody listening, this is a great stepping stone into other roles within the advice arena because from protection, you can go into mortgages.
47:06
SPEAKER_02: From from uh protection, you can move into financial planning or the back office function.
47:11
SPEAKER_02: So it's a great stepping stone, it's a great entry point with very few barriers.
47:16
SPEAKER_02: But I think the one thing you need to have when you move into protection, it's you're it's a bit tougher, you know, than doing an administration role.
47:24
SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying it's it's tough in the sense of the type of role it is, but you will be client-facing, you will be expecting to prospect, whether that's through social media, whether that's picking up a telephone, whether that's building relationships with introducers to pick up client relate, you know, client referrals.
47:39
SPEAKER_02: It's an outbound uh go get them type position, as opposed to sit on your ass and hope it comes to you.
47:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
47:47
SPEAKER_00: So even like how I got my first job in protection, I went through LinkedIn and it's called the MD.
47:52
SPEAKER_00: And I identified a gap in the business.
47:55
SPEAKER_00: So if people want to be an IFA, you know, if I was going to do that route, I'd be like, speak to an IFA on LinkedIn.
48:01
SPEAKER_00: Do you need help with protection?
48:03
SPEAKER_00: Do you I'll do it for you?
48:04
SPEAKER_00: We'll come to an agreement, and then you can focus on the investments where I'm like, oh, that's great because you're helping my clients, right?
48:10
SPEAKER_00: And you're you're specialist in that.
48:12
SPEAKER_00: And then over time you can learn the other bits and then become an IFA.
48:15
SPEAKER_00: There's so many different ways to it.
48:17
SPEAKER_00: But like you said, I never heard about it.
48:19
SPEAKER_00: I just kind of figured it out during um COVID.
48:23
SPEAKER_00: Um I also feel with insurance, it's that reputation.
48:26
SPEAKER_00: So when I um worked for UBS in New York, I was at um Birmingham Gradfair, and that's where Mountbatten were, but all these other big companies, I don't remember really the insurance companies or their, you know, the big corporates in London.
48:40
SPEAKER_00: There's nothing, this kind of insurance is different.
48:43
SPEAKER_00: And that's why I'm trying to bring awareness about it, where not everyone's fit in some corporate environment.
48:47
SPEAKER_00: I personally feel if you can do recruitment, you can do protection.
48:50
SPEAKER_00: If you've got an estate agent, you can do it.
48:52
SPEAKER_00: It's the same skill set, different product.
48:54
SPEAKER_00: So I think I know you'd be great at this role, but it's if you want to do it or not, and having access to it and knowing where it is.
49:03
SPEAKER_00: Because when I speak to a lot of owners of mortgage firms, there is a there's a position where they're smaller companies and they've got an aging workforce where everyone's going to retire.
49:12
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, you've got all the client base and you're making good money.
49:15
SPEAKER_00: Once they retire, you've got no business.
49:17
SPEAKER_00: So you're going to need younger people in the business.
49:19
SPEAKER_00: And that's why I came on this podcast because you've got loads of different people saying the same thing about this industry needs to change, it needs to be diverse, it needs to be XYZ.
49:27
SPEAKER_00: But we need young people too.
49:29
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter what background you're from, the more exposure there is about it, the more likely they will want to do it.
49:35
SPEAKER_02: No 100%, Adrian.
49:36
SPEAKER_02: Totally agree with you.
49:37
SPEAKER_02: Again, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today.
49:39
SPEAKER_02: Really, really appreciate your thoughts and your views, and um looking forward to keeping in contact with you.
49:44
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me on.