Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Peter Griffiths about his choice of Vengeance on Varos (1/2)

Transcript

Talks to Peter Griffiths about his choice of Vengeance on Varos (1/2) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:42
Welcome back to hamster with a blunt.
0:44
Penknife the Doctor Who commentary podcast.
0:48
I was about to say. I'm here with a podcast virgin,
0:50
but that's not the Troopers. Who is it?
0:52
Peter, not at all. I'm here today with the
0:57
wonderful piece of Griffiths from flight for inside.
1:00
You do a podcasting. Do maximum power, which is part
1:03
of the FTE podcasting Universe. Well, I'll tell you what, you
1:07
took a bloody long time, getting that second season out.
1:11
It was recorded a year ago. Would you believe?
1:14
It's kind of light? Yeah, it's kind of like Jody's
1:17
last episode. It was in the can for a long
1:18
time. It's so nice to have all of
1:21
those. Sorry, I'm going off on a
1:23
complete Divergence already but it's lovely to have all those
1:26
different voices from all those different podcasts coming in on
1:29
maximum power. I must be a really fun thing to
1:31
do. Yeah, it's so much fun and also
1:33
Blake 7 is hands-down, my favorite series and so when I
1:36
found out that they were your favorite podcast.
1:39
Yes, it's my favorite series ever.
1:43
Oh fuck can you can you, can you please explain that to me?
1:47
I'm aware of what I'm podcasting about today and I don't care one
1:50
jot like 70s is my traditional favor.
1:55
When I was growing up, it was the series which meant the most
1:59
to me of course. I loved Doctor Who The death but
2:03
plague 7 just spoke to me and it was very important for my
2:07
formative kind of appreciation of Television because I had a
2:11
big repeat season and it was on it. 11 o'clock on a Saturday
2:14
night. My parents, let me stay up at
2:16
age, 8 to watch this repeat season 11 o'clock on a Saturday
2:20
night and I felt like the best thing ever.
2:23
Where's a bit naughty? When it was a bit noisier than
2:25
doctor, who likes exactly had people saying bitch and you
2:29
know, kissing people into the floor?
2:31
Yeah. It's what I take the cues my
2:33
personal life from now I do it and there's one quote that I use
2:37
all the time in my life you know when it's a toad with the fella
2:41
from Terminus in it, he starts throwing server and about in a
2:44
very aggressive way, and she's just about that.
2:47
The creating act that you subjected me to earlier, I
2:51
should like you to do it again, all of slaves.
2:54
Actually, you can literally live your life like so Vlad and you
2:57
live a great life. I'm telling you for this classic
3:00
lines earlier in the episode. Turns around and he says, woman.
3:03
You are beautiful. Never said that one.
3:07
Those, you know, I was so very briefly than FTE.
3:14
Yeah. Your involvement with that
3:15
start. So I've been friends with the Ft
3:19
crowd, for many moons, including Nathan, who was one of The
3:22
Originators I've known since like the late 1980s you're not
3:26
to do the maths on that and discover how old I am.
3:29
And so I was living in I was living in London, and when I
3:33
moved back to Australia, Nathan said, would you like to guest on
3:35
a couple of episodes? And I did that had a really good
3:37
time. And, you know, obviously really
3:40
enjoy podcasting with all the regulars, like, Brendan and
3:43
James and Todd. And so, my involvement has just
3:47
increased. And now I spoke to maybe, I
3:51
think I did maybe 10 or 11 episodes last season, so it was
3:54
quite a lot and I love it. It's great.
3:56
There are the 50th Anniversary now, aren't they?
3:59
That's, that's what's being recorded.
4:01
Medicine. We are no, they did three
4:03
versions of Day of the Doctor. I'm assuming you're on one of
4:06
those. There's actually there's two
4:08
versions do that. Okay, so that's one for this
4:10
one, for the classic group, and there's one for the new who
4:13
group, so it's quite nice, but it's going to be, it's going to
4:16
be a podcasting week with inventor and space and time and
4:19
nice of the doctor and two of those episodes in the five ish,
4:22
doctors reboot. And then, at the end of The Time
4:25
of the Doctor, I mean, I consider fly from entirety to be
4:28
gold standard dog food, like little test.
4:32
What are you not to say that? You're part of it.
4:34
Now, I'm and I'd say that to you.
4:37
I also, you know, other podcasts are included as very good
4:39
podcasts out there like a hamster with a blunt penknife
4:42
and then that one FTE, certainly outfit.
4:47
I've got a man, it's not. Yeah, I don't really like to do
4:49
this. Although there are some bloody
4:50
dreary ones out there as well though.
4:51
Do you know why this yeah no I was advised to listen to a
4:55
couple and I didn't get very far into them.
4:58
I won't name names. Let's not do that.
5:01
Okay, so when I asked you to come on it and I feel like it's
5:05
up in a long time. Waiting to ask you for this
5:08
because I think every is every other person apart from James
5:11
now, has all I'm Richard. I'm too scared to ask, Richard
5:15
has been on it. All right?
5:16
You should get Richard on. He'd be wonderful.
5:19
I'll think about it. You came at me with time lash,
5:23
which I have already done, and that is a very strange choice.
5:28
So, I'm assuming you, rather liked that story.
5:31
Yeah, I've liked time last concise surface or in 1985.
5:36
And the thing is I'm not blind to its flaws.
5:39
I know that it has many and I have a two-pronged approach to
5:43
it. I like its flaws and I enjoy it,
5:45
but I also on certain levels, think it's actually quite good.
5:49
So as a fan of FTE long before I was ever involved, Nathan would
5:55
talk about what they were recording when he said, Susan,
5:57
tell you to was coming up. I actually penned a two-page
6:01
memo Oh about time lash and why it was good hoping to influence
6:05
them into saying something. Nice I didn't work
6:07
unfortunately. But yeah I actually think it's
6:10
pretty good. I just think it's really fun.
6:14
There's a lot of good ideas in there.
6:16
Yeah the production but you know what?
6:18
I'm kind of got that point. Now where I can lump a lot of
6:20
classic Who into the production is competent, you know.
6:26
I think it's also it's also it Trails off at the end but it's
6:30
got some nice ideas happening and I actually think it's quite
6:33
well directed by one of my Nemesis pennant Roberts.
6:37
See one of your never cease. We've been talking about that
6:40
all maximum power because all of the episodes the pennant does
6:43
our let's say less competently put together than the other
6:47
directors. I've had a lot to say about
6:49
pennant recently. No he didn't.
6:53
He did the first episode. To be shot.
6:55
But that was actually the second episode in that space for
6:58
baseball, that's right. Okay.
7:00
I will help my buddy. Brian.
7:02
The pilot needs. Yeah, and it's a bit of a cruel
7:04
contrast because all of my clients episodes are really well
7:08
done. So here were effectively
7:10
starting our own Blake's 7 podcast here.
7:12
Do you realize that I'm totally on board with that.
7:16
But hello are beautiful about that degrading acts.
7:21
You committed on me earlier. I should like should like me, do
7:24
it. Yeah, you have heard this
7:27
before, haven't you? Absolutely.
7:33
And the amount of knowledge you can get out of calm, and that
7:36
story. It's unbelievable.
7:38
Yeah. Well, in any aspect of your
7:40
life, but yeah, definitely, that story.
7:42
So from one ugly story to another or some would say
7:46
Vengeance on varas and Season. 22 is a whole I really like this
7:52
year and I like this year because I watched it as a
7:55
precocious, twelve-year-old coming out on VHS or Peaks milk
7:58
is that there are coming out all our border at the time.
8:02
I first watched her innate, you know, I am so anything that came
8:05
before the last season I discovered complete as like a
8:09
big jigsaw coming out on VHS and the for some reason the Colin
8:13
Baker was really just Charmed a note with me.
8:16
I love this doctor. I love salt.
8:18
How bold and how Loud and how violent it was.
8:22
I really quite like that when I was younger, I don't mind that
8:24
either. And there was just something
8:26
about this season, that was colorful, it seemed quite
8:29
stylish. It sort of the sets and the
8:33
location work, and the colors, and I know it was bold and
8:37
Brash, and rather, wonderful. I really like 22 and I got a
8:40
feeling you do too. I also really like 23.
8:44
And, in fact, my origin story with it's quite similar to
8:47
yours, except I watched it at the time.
8:50
It was 1985 and it was shown in December 1985 in Australia and
8:55
it was Peak fan time for me. So I was precocious 13 year old,
8:59
who is watching it, so they go don't need to do the math
9:01
anymore and I can recite this story and much of the season in
9:05
my sleep. So, I think it's a fairly
9:08
unpopular view in fandom, and certainly an FTE.
9:11
So, of course, as well, but I think Season 22 is a stronger
9:14
season than the three Davison Seasons that come before it
9:19
actually having said that, At, I think Simon Todd and I are
9:21
amongst ft hose to hold the same opinion, but maybe Nathan,
9:25
Richard and Brendan don't see. Yet a person I think is a better
9:30
doctor than Colin. You won't get an argument out of
9:33
me on that, but I think so many, Dave, some stories are weak
9:36
sauce and this season has a bunch of strong stories.
9:40
It's got the two doctors, revelation of the dialects.
9:43
And, of course, this story as well.
9:45
And as we've talked about on famously, quite a fan of time,
9:48
lash, for all of its So I think it's actually a fairly strong
9:52
and well made season, and I understand that people have
9:54
issues with it, and I understand the kinds of issues that help I
9:58
just don't share them. Well, there's two stories, you
10:01
didn't mention their attack of the Cybermen, and Marco, erotic
10:03
are off like those two as well. I like Mark of the Rani.
10:10
I think it's like this. I've made Works to a point and
10:13
then we head off to Telos or wherever we go and efforts.
10:17
That is the point to which it works.
10:19
Yes. I could never quite understand
10:26
it Vengeance on virus is in Vogue or not.
10:31
Sometimes I think it's it's all riding a wave of being one of
10:34
the more popular color based stories and other times, you
10:37
know, people are saying, you know, this is the 1980s Doctor
10:40
Who at its absolute and a deer. I mean, I don't think those two
10:44
things for mutually exclusive. No nothing.
10:48
Is it is the 80s distilled as I was watching earlier.
10:51
I was like, yeah, okay. A lot of what wrong with that
10:54
decade is here in this story. I mean, I think it is one of the
10:58
most one of his most popular stories but I don't think it's
11:01
held in that high regard. And that mystifies me because it
11:05
never struck me as particularly nasty or violent on first
11:08
viewing. And it doesn't really now either
11:10
and that seems to be mostly the criticism that's leveled at it.
11:14
It is dark, but it's Darkly funny and Totally on board with
11:19
that. I was watching this at 4 a.m.
11:21
this morning. Well, five ends one, and there
11:24
are a lot of lines Roz laughing and I don't think I'd ever sort
11:28
of noticed, just how funny this was a lot of what kind of Baker
11:31
was saying, was sort of. It was acidic, but it was very
11:35
funny. Yeah, it's been bathed in acid,
11:38
one might say it was. Yeah, it is.
11:41
I know a lot of the humor was left on The Cutting Room floor
11:43
apparently, but a lot of it still made it in and I'm quite a
11:47
fan of it. I think it's the best story of
11:49
the era. All really icy, I'd say
11:52
Revelation tips. It's a and I think it's just
11:55
because Revelation is so well directed that yes, you know as
11:59
overall sort of viewing experience is good but I think.
12:02
Yeah, we'll talk about this later on as well.
12:04
I think this is actually quite well directed and Ron Jones is
12:07
another of my Nemesis one of my perennial punching bags on on
12:11
FTE because he is Dreadful. But here know what a kind of.
12:16
I feel lucky he could love. To direct the show as he went
12:19
along. So it is start a started with
12:21
black market. Yes, you did.
12:23
Black Orchid and then the Unholy double Act of time flies in Arc
12:26
of infinity. So I'm thinking like that was
12:30
sort of like his audition. Unfortunately, it was an
12:32
audition that we actually have to watch.
12:34
Failed audition Eight Episodes back-to-back, unfortunately, but
12:38
then when you get to sort of Frontiers, he's learning how to
12:41
light it a little bit better. He's sort of using Shadows quite
12:45
well, he's doing high low angles.
12:47
He's Getting a little bit more inventive, and then finally,
12:50
when you get to bunch of ice and then my water as well.
12:53
I think my mom's pretty well realize too, it is.
12:56
I think in front, he or she learns how to get performances
12:58
out of the cast and they're really comes into its own here
13:02
and Frontiers is very stagy as well.
13:05
You never for a moment, think that you're outside, where is
13:07
this all being set inside the punishment, dome in a whole
13:10
bunch of corridors. Actually, I think please to his
13:13
strengths because he's location work.
13:15
Usually lets him down. It is, can I Before we sort of
13:19
head in and press play on episode one, can I confess
13:21
something to you? It's, I'm hoping that he's
13:24
listening by Old English teachers listening to this, but
13:27
the city, Ron Jones, this list out of this.
13:29
Now you're going to be out of luck.
13:30
Yeah, he's no longer with us. So basically, I used 12.
13:36
I was asked, we were all asked to write like a short novel in
13:40
our English class. I love this story so much.
13:43
I basically wrote the entirety of Vengeance of our also as a
13:46
book called the prison. In space, which I still have now
13:50
with this, hastily drawn cover and it's the best Mark I ever
13:54
got for an English assignment. He went this was this is you
13:57
know, insanely imaginative as like thank you very much.
14:01
I was going to say thank you to fill it Martin and to Ron Jones,
14:04
but stimulate me so much because I got a fantastic gray for that
14:07
piece of work. I see you could have called it
14:10
song of the space wailing. I couldn't.
14:18
Rooted at some point? Yeah, it was one of the lake
14:21
trout and stories which never happened.
14:23
Apparently it's quite a good thing because it's finished with
14:27
Jamie may be spanking. The lead villainous.
14:30
Oh, they made it and they big finish made it.
14:33
Yeah. Well this today.
14:35
Yeah, it hasn't it like that same matriarch again.
14:37
It's Zoe. The last scene.
14:38
Is her going OT? Be no.
14:40
No you can just hear and spanking her arms.
14:42
Yeah. Anyway well it should we skip
14:45
into episode 1? Yeah, let's see what Okey-dokey
14:50
so given I intro'd while you count as in from 5 to 10K, I
14:55
will count you in Thunderbird style.
14:56
Five, four, three, two, one off we go entire colorful star
15:07
field. Well, they've got rid of that
15:10
horrible venetian blind effect. Now, haven't they?
15:13
That poor Pete Davidson had, they have?
15:16
I mean, I'm not entirely sold on this.
15:18
Because I think it is too garish but I kind of love it anyway,
15:22
but you can't go into the Colin Baker era and say it's too
15:25
garish or I'll say it's a, no that's true.
15:28
It only sets the scene for what's to come but that's again
15:32
attention to a capital O capital O Vengeance on Burrows and we're
15:36
starting with a, how would you write this model shot?
15:43
I'm not highly put it that way, it looks like someone's gone out
15:46
the back and sort of erected and The backyard, which one model
15:50
working 70s Doctor, Who, whenever were kind of shooting
15:54
it on film, looks really rather impressive.
15:58
We need to head into the 80s. I kind of forgot how to do it.
16:02
Giants he wants to in the studio.
16:03
But speaking of model work, check out what's on the screen.
16:06
Oh, as a budding gay boy about to turn 40.
16:12
Jason Connery was a seminal moment for me and in more ways
16:15
than one, he appears to be more than that.
16:18
You know, since I've discovered chains and bent, I thought I was
16:26
getting a bit hot beverage. I'm not really getting off on
16:30
the punishment exit aspect of it, but I do quite enjoy.
16:34
Just no, no judgment at all. Amazing, aren't they?
16:45
I love the both of them and I loved her more when she turned
16:48
up as Jenna Coleman's Nan in Time of the Doctor.
16:50
Oh, let's make the joke about, you know, Steven Moffat, not
16:54
characterizing the families, particularly because she just
16:56
called Nan, isn't she? She is, she is great and I think
17:01
this was all filmed in one day all of their sins away from all
17:05
the other actors. I mean I'm sure that they were
17:08
but also this dialogue is just amazing the dialogue.
17:11
They given con div must be running out of people to laser
17:14
are amazing. I do.
17:19
I do think though the Phillip Martin is truly thinking about
17:24
his setting and it's so he's one of those writers that sort of
17:29
thinks about the structure of these peoples day and puts in
17:33
lots of references to stuff outside of the story that helps
17:36
setting a bit more realistic and they do it.
17:39
A lot of people about the outer Dome sabotage dial at one point
17:42
though. Do they?
17:44
The, I mean, it's not quite Robert, Holmes World building
17:47
but it does give you my idea of what's going on.
17:50
What if they come on? Well, who is?
17:53
Yes, exactly. But these two really are so
17:58
important to the story because without them, I would just be
18:01
drama. Taking placing corridors.
18:03
Was there watching like, we're watching as they lend, that
18:05
whole aspect of the story, which is vital to it.
18:08
And there's such a, such a Ryan funny, Greek chorus, own.
18:12
They shortages may be more to come my wife.
18:17
Everyone. When she goes, I like that one.
18:19
But one of the sudden, the study close.
18:21
Yeah. She's a Trails off at the end.
18:23
It's brilliant. And when they talk about the
18:25
blind guy, was she feeling about?
18:29
It's some kind of thing where she's got thread going around
18:31
it. Maybe she liked creating kind of
18:33
a mini I don't know what it is but yeah, it's quite cool
18:37
actually and I like the fact that she's actually playing with
18:39
something that adds more to the scenes took me years to realize
18:43
that Stephen Yardley was Severn, from Genesis of the Daleks No,
18:50
yeah, no. He was he was very good in that
18:52
and he's very good in this as well.
18:55
And their repartee is amazing when they talk about the blind
18:58
man. Oh, he wasn't blind, not in the
19:00
beginning. So dark and so good.
19:05
Really doubled now talk about repartee.
19:07
Look, who's on the screen now. I know and you know these things
19:11
in Season 22 come in for a lot of criticism.
19:13
These Tardis bitching scenes and sometimes they are a bit
19:17
tiresome. But these things in this story,
19:20
look, the actually funny and done quite playfully.
19:24
There's not really, like, obviously, I feel like
19:28
everyone's on edge since the twin dilemma when he tries to
19:31
murderer. So every time they have a row in
19:33
Season 22, the little gray when they're going to pounce on her
19:36
next. You're right, it's a lot warmer
19:39
than people would suggest. I think, I thought this is this
19:44
was very playful this thing. Yeah.
19:46
And they talked about in season 23, how Uh, Colin Nicholas
19:48
started playing against the material, but I think they're
19:51
playing against the material here.
19:52
It's a stroppy and funny relationship, like where you
19:56
said we both are, this is a lot of fun yet.
19:59
There are some things that were exercised, however, which I
20:02
think was probably for the best. I don't know if you've ever seen
20:04
the last scene that was supposed to go out and it's about all the
20:08
militant cuttlefish. Yes, really terrible.
20:12
I mean, people talk about the last scene of the happiness
20:15
Patrol ruining that story because it should have gone out
20:17
on. That scene, with Helen a
20:20
discovering. Yeah, I mean, it is great, but
20:23
it's also a good last seen, whereas, the mooted last scene
20:26
for this was actually Dreadful sitting.
20:28
Where is he? Where they choose to cut this?
20:31
It, I think is brilliant Immaculate.
20:34
It's one of my favorite. Looks like the TV's gone off.
20:36
What the hell do we do? I don't know.
20:38
Yeah, he's actually mirroring the fan life.
20:43
Okay. And also course this was 1985
20:45
so, you know, maybe no more Doctor Who What we do, and they
20:51
didn't know that this point, but that's very nice.
20:53
There was about four weeks after, this was shown the bill
20:57
Shaban here, as seal, I mean, he's amazing.
21:01
He's, he's a total, he's a true original and you don't get many
21:05
of those villains in the late 80s.
21:07
No, you're gonna, you got a lot of sloppy versions of older
21:12
villains? Yes.
21:14
Exactly. And this is sloppy version of a
21:15
new villain. Well, I think You get to sort of
21:19
really interesting, original villains, their sex and you get
21:23
cell and then you get the Ronnie as well.
21:26
I would also add the boar add to that.
21:27
I think the board is a really decent villain, well plays.
21:31
Well, the makeups amazing. Yeah.
21:34
And that yeah, they do a great job with the makeup mostly in
21:37
this season. Still looks incredible and
21:42
having the bill play him. Is it a proper performance?
21:46
It's like he's really And himself in the role.
21:49
It's great. How do you, how do you play a
21:53
catalyst slug? Well, there you go.
21:56
Exactly range. A and C news on to a winner at
22:00
the end of this he was like keep the cost of do.
22:02
He's coming back late and you know, it's another reason why
22:05
this season is quite successful, you know, we have the Ronnie
22:08
coming back. We have saw coming back because
22:09
they are successful characters. You don't have to track taters
22:12
coming back. Do you just saying?
22:14
Yeah, well I thought they would hang on the hollows of time they
22:17
were thinking about it. Like, yeah, they never made it
22:20
but they didn't bring back the Garment.
22:21
You know, how I love about sale is I think he works for adults
22:30
in. There's there's some intelligent
22:31
commentary in there and he works for kids in the he is loathsome
22:36
and he's got that crazy laugh and, you know, he's easily
22:39
imitable as well definitely and he's got a visual aspect and a
22:43
verbal aspect. And so he's funny to listen to
22:46
and funny to watch. It's great.
22:49
Yeah. Do you think he's as effective
22:50
in mind wall? Yeah, I mean, he's played more
22:55
for Laughs in mind because mind Bob is the lighter story in some
22:59
returning but I think he's good in both.
23:04
Yeah, he's playing off Kube and Kiev is the funny one.
23:07
So he's like the funny side kick look worth it.
23:10
What's more important? My health or your wealth a trick
23:14
question that Gibson bristly. Yeah.
23:18
But Martin is a funny writer. You've got to hand it to him,
23:21
and I think the era is blessed by having two scripts from him.
23:24
I'll for sure for sure. He's doing something a little
23:26
more intelligent than your average, Doctor Who writer, and
23:29
now that I'm not going to come down to Harlan Glenn McCoy.
23:33
But, I think there's a bit more layers to this than there, as
23:37
time lash. I mean, feel free.
23:40
I know I'm in a vast minority there, but actually, I think
23:44
Timeless does have some fun things to do with h.g.
23:46
Wells. And I mean, it maybe doesn't go
23:48
very deep on it, but it's quite enjoyable up here.
23:51
We must do a do-over, you know, of time lash.
23:53
I don't need to hear your time, lash commentary, no one needs to
23:57
hear Mike, you know, I want to see the story with the doctor
24:02
got lost twice in the Tardis corridor.
24:04
Cause it's got to be more entertaining them on whiny, old
24:06
Tegan, got lost in the middle of global the sun god that went on
24:10
forever. That you were saying about the
24:14
dr. Perry says, now there's a very,
24:16
very long. One in time lash.
24:18
Isn't there an episode to the water picks her up and she's
24:25
kicking at the air. That's quite funny.
24:30
I mean is maybe if you had just that beer and not the 15
24:33
minutes, that went around it by all accounts, the person that
24:39
represented Noble Shaban or the sort of the company, the agency
24:43
was appalled that J and T wanted to put it inside a monster
24:47
costume. Whereas Nabil shabam was like,
24:49
are you kidding me? This is the best role of ever I
24:52
had. I think it was actually another
24:54
producer in the BBC who said And then was aghast that he'd been
25:02
cast as an alien slug but you know it's an acting performance
25:07
in a bill gives an amazing performance and so he was the
25:10
right casting for the role. What do you do you think this is
25:14
the most political Doctor Who to come out of the last sort of 10
25:18
years? Oh, that's a bit cool.
25:22
I mean yeah, probably it is the Giants.
25:27
He was a, he was a little reluctant to have for it.
25:31
Martin on board, wasn't it? By all accounts and said, look,
25:34
I don't want you to write anything political.
25:36
Okay, well, we got this a word as well was not, I think a very
25:41
political script editor. You started getting interesting
25:43
politics, like maybe the happiness, Patrol was quite
25:46
political, but yeah, this is overtly political and it's about
25:50
The politics of the day and the, the way that television was
25:55
being consumed in the day and for that reason, it feels
25:58
relevant now because were, we know the era and we're familiar
26:02
with the stories of the year and we know that it was relevant
26:04
then and so it still feels relevant.
26:06
Now, you want to talk about what feels relevant?
26:09
Now, honestly with lovely old list for us and soon ack in
26:15
charge of the government. Well, I think we should bring in
26:17
this style of voting. Do you know and the punishment?
26:20
Twice and using someone else's voting box Joe both criminal
26:26
offenses. So I'll just be delighted to see
26:33
soon a crime in about like this and a green light.
26:36
The girl. I mean, there's something sort
26:38
of a little bit sensual about the way he's Martin Jarvis, does
26:41
it? He looks like he's quite
26:42
enjoying. It actually see you to that
26:44
angle there where he shoots from below.
26:46
The Lister is quite oppressive, isn't it?
26:48
I think that's quite a dramatic. Yeah, yeah.
26:50
Yeah, I think it is unlike it's actually it's a roof to the set
26:53
and you don't actually get that much in Doctor Who there's some
26:56
imagination, which has gone into the studio work here.
26:59
And I mean, having a tan, Eric, watch it and have a different
27:03
positions on it is, that's what's great about.
27:05
It, isn't it? Is that she absolutely adores
27:07
him and he does not it's like other watching.
27:10
Something like I'm a celebrity get me out of here somewhere.
27:12
That isn't it when there's a slippery going through hell and
27:14
you got one person that loves us and every one person that hates
27:16
it. I've just it's just so it's this
27:19
is far more. More relevant now than it ever
27:21
was then absolutely. And also, this story have you
27:26
noticed is obsessed with blindness.
27:29
They were talking about the blind man, and the blind
27:31
infiltrator and still immediately goes.
27:33
There is like torture lines Miss execution.
27:36
Everyone want to build a blindness.
27:40
Eccentric communication circuit, it's such a great idea.
27:45
It is, it's a fun little thing and it adds more humor.
27:47
Look at backs. They're like, said that the door
27:50
backs. He's, is he the one on the left
27:52
is the one who comes up with who says, pleased to entertain.
28:13
Yeah, that's brilliant. But you could imagine on
28:16
something that's the same as saying, like, how, you know, how
28:23
long of squeamishness can we get out of them and how much Hawaii
28:27
Kai? Yeah.
28:29
Is it now? Ten years?
28:33
We might be watching, torches on screen, you never know.
28:37
Yeah, I mean Russell tapped into that a little bit with bad wolf
28:39
in the passing of the ways. Didn't hear, you know, Season
28:41
3063 of Big Brother. So what on Java sea is a big
28:49
part of this story success? I think he is tremendous and the
28:53
casting is mostly great Forbes Collins as well.
28:57
He's lip-smacking Lee good as the chief and I also like people
29:02
don't, I like the fellow who plays quill mm, as well.
29:05
It's amazing. He's one of the very short and
29:12
Noble line of gay Doctor Who video It's basically the talks
29:18
all Harrison chasing him. I want to hear them squirm till
29:24
I'm death with pleasure. I am the System Controller you
29:30
deal with me, don't you? Be telling me you might be one
29:38
of them. Made that way as well because
29:48
either victim within this system, right?
29:50
But he is also very complicit with the terrible things that
29:53
are going on. Oh, absolutely.
29:55
He's not a nice person at all. And you get the impression that
29:58
he does have some kind of epiphany, but it doesn't change
30:02
me to being a good person. And in fact, everyone who's in,
30:05
this situation is the same. So rondel who is the god, who
30:10
helps them know, knock on door. Sorry, what's his name?
30:13
The one who helps them at the end.
30:16
I'll now that maldark that's him played by, I didn't feel, isn't
30:19
it? You know, until he is terrible.
30:23
He does something awful in this episode which will come to
30:26
another bit worried two slaps around the face.
30:29
That's the one. Yeah.
30:31
Yeah. And so he's clearly not, you
30:33
know, not a nice person. He's a nasty piece of work.
30:35
And yeah, actually, he and the governor left in charge of
30:38
things thing. I'll good luck with that.
30:39
He and he does say the videos I was going to talk to know, it
30:42
goes. Well we'll leave the rosen's to
30:45
decide their own form of Justice.
30:46
I'm like these people really exactly.
30:49
Exactly fun. There's another story, which
30:52
does exactly the same thing the sun makers, you know, just off,
30:56
they've tossed The Collector over the roof.
30:58
And he goes, well, good luck guys.
31:00
See you later. I don't like you're filling it
31:02
out yourself. Yeah, let's put the feet in
31:05
charge. Look at this Tardis manual with
31:07
the big lettering on the cover, it's just ridiculous.
31:11
It's a bit like in the 70s when they are top-secret on the
31:13
farms, wasn't it? You know, it's right.
31:15
That's it. Inside of a building.
31:20
Exactly. I mean, subtle it is not over,
31:24
you know, it's part of the reason I love it.
31:26
I mean, Colin Baker's costumes, not particularly subtle, was it?
31:30
No, I mean, there's little about this area that is subtle, but I
31:33
would argue that this story in some parts is subtle in some
31:37
parts. Not sometimes this, yeah.
31:40
Well, I think where this story isn't being subtle that's for a
31:44
reason and that's that Reason people will lie, pain is sort
31:48
of, you know, the Acid Bath scene.
31:50
The more violent moments, the more grotesque moments, but it's
31:54
making a critique of that. Absolutely.
31:57
And, you know, it was not, it was not uncommon in its era for
32:02
television to be like this and that is what it is talking
32:05
about. It never struck me as
32:07
particularly nasty, or violent and, but mine's, you know, one
32:10
of my favorite shows at the time was Prisoners, Cell Block H.
32:14
I was, I was like, 13 and I fed a twice weekly died of bashings
32:18
and rapes and brandings and that was all just in 1985.
32:21
So this was time for me. Yeah.
32:24
Very yet PG-13 in comparison. Exactly.
32:28
In fact that's what my production company, is going to
32:30
be called PG-13. Okay.
32:33
Here's is a rhetta and this is a hell of a performance art area.
32:37
I think this might be the one performance that is less than
32:40
convincing. Yeah, I mean it's still wrong
32:43
Jones that were talking about, so not everything is great.
32:46
But look at old rondel here. I think he might have been
32:48
another seminal moment for 13 year old Peter.
32:50
I can't quite see it there. It's in teddy bear fight.
32:53
I think he's first name is lit glitter on dolls.
33:00
Oh, bless her heart. She's and she's struggling with
33:03
it. And while the power Elites, they
33:05
enjoy power and luxury. Can't we make an attempt to
33:09
rescue them? She belongs to the stage.
33:12
She does she does in this is a very stage, you story.
33:16
Three. I mean, looking at it now with
33:18
the volume turned down, she's not doing too bad, a job of kind
33:21
of using her face. It's just that the delivery is
33:24
was gonna pay. You can't hear what she's
33:26
saying. I mean her and Jason Connery a
33:30
maybe y, well, matched to each other.
33:33
I'm just saying, it's just that Jason Connery, is much more
33:36
effective to look at. Well, quite well, that sounds
33:40
section of the audience a randomizer, you know, definitely
33:43
not not not not not to try. It to look, but this is great.
33:47
Jason has a few things, this camera work that they do, you
33:50
know, where they fix the camera back from the set.
33:53
And then, they're either side of the console.
33:56
It just couldn't look any more stages because it is, it's a
33:58
salt camera, but the Janet Fielding is always banging on
34:00
about, when she's doing a commentaries exactly.
34:03
As I start with the wide shot, go into the MC user.
34:06
Both are, it's like, you know, it's just a camera.
34:08
One here, camera two and three there.
34:09
And Ron Jones is, particularly guilty of that, but there are
34:12
moments in the story where he starts on the wide shot and then
34:15
allows The camera to drift in and you think well, okay, you
34:18
doing something actually a little bit more than learning
34:21
because I watch me pee time, flight fairly recently and asked
34:25
I'm sorry the way everybody was feel my pain.
34:30
The way they were all positioned so they could all like list.
34:33
It is entire cast of characters could all be in short like
34:36
around this one. Rock this sort of lined up in a
34:40
proscenium arch and it's really quite awful.
34:45
You think the harder This person never get any more work but no
34:48
Becky came for our community and she does like, Jonathan does
34:51
drive home about how much more sophisticated American
34:55
television was at this point? Unfortunately, she probably has
34:59
got a point well, you know, but but like in terms of how they're
35:01
shooting it and how everything's what kind of on film and and
35:05
looking a bit glossier and is a bit Slicker.
35:09
Yeah. Maybe this was unaware.
35:10
I didn't. Did you get the Blu-ray for
35:12
this? No, I don't actually collectible
35:15
your eyes. I know bad man.
35:17
Last pulling but you don't know. Well actually it's quite
35:20
expensive. Isn't it to get them?
35:23
On TV. Do you know on blind enough?
35:25
That it doesn't make any difference quality wise but
35:28
Michael grade is on if there's an interview with Michael Graves
35:31
on the which I thought was very bold of them to do, you know,
35:34
talking about why he canceled Doctor Who and he basically
35:40
says, we'll look go back and watch one of the episodes on
35:43
this set and tell me why I cancel this show that it wasn't
35:47
like a but he's talking about how the show is being made at
35:52
the time as well. Well about how Stage Hill looked
35:55
the lack of money and resources on my own when you responsible
35:59
was responsible. Yeah, the way that you wanted it
36:04
to be. Why didn't she get the
36:05
production team in and tell them how you wanted it to be made?
36:08
Why did you give them some more money?
36:09
Or basically some more time, why was Jonathan Powell the head of
36:12
drama sending back? Yes, this script is great if he
36:15
was about to cancel it, the next month it's like it doesn't make
36:17
any sense. Although I do love this saying
36:20
these are two well-matched actors, I think Or something,
36:23
truly load some such as okay. Well then I'm going to ask you a
36:35
question about, like, sort of changing your mindset as into
36:38
other. So they found bottom these
36:40
mindset because he loves this with a passion, bordering on
36:42
Insanity, can you imagine why that would be why somebody
36:47
really would not like this? I can see that people.
36:52
Don't appreciate the things that's trying to do and only see
36:55
its flaws and it is a stage you production.
36:58
I mean, maybe Michael grade and Nathan are of the same mindset
37:02
and I do think that if you don't first time, I think in some ways
37:14
and if you could find it quite alienating but also it's in, it
37:20
is clever in some ways. Been some ways, it's not as Some
37:22
ways, it's really quite on the nose and I don't mind that at
37:25
all because I think some people might just find it to you see.
37:28
Nathan word tires. Mm.
37:30
Yeah, he started every single season. 22 episode with that was
37:34
my wall, this is all just very tiresome, isn't it?
37:38
Yes no agreement there. Obviously I think this fits in a
37:42
second here. It's a lot of silences as we
37:47
lead up to John dolls execution by the laser.
37:50
I mean this is really quite suspense.
37:52
And we'll do. I think it's really well shot
37:54
and the music for the yeah. Story is amazing.
37:57
It's really subtle and works for the story.
38:00
Does he get all these really nice shots?
38:02
And then the Tardis is actually we had to talk about here,
38:04
Australian transmission Season, 22 slit into 25 minute episodes.
38:09
And so the Cliffhangers would just at these arbitrary moments
38:13
25-22 and a half minutes in. So in Attack of the seidman, it
38:17
almost worked by accident been Veritas.
38:20
It was here. Which bit?
38:24
What is all this? That's right.
38:27
And who's this coming to welcome us.
38:29
I think was the actual line. It was an and cut it now.
38:33
So it was, it was my first clue as a 13 year old fan.
38:37
That something was a bit off. Is it a myth?
38:40
Then that the five doctors was chopped up and the bit where the
38:43
master goes down the staircase in to erratically.
38:47
Oh, it's like the musical staircase to the.
38:49
That was one of the cliff. That's right.
38:51
He does. He's Tom Hanks down the Then
38:53
comes the credits crash. He's very confused at these
38:56
moments like non Jeopardy, I mean a little bit but I mean
39:00
have you met 80s Doctor Who on Jeopardy a bounce?
39:06
Yeah, following this, there was those other classic
39:09
cliff-hanging moments like the doctor saying, its first all is,
39:13
who's this coming to welcome us, which was your first clue and
39:15
then there was tension, ranked moments, like, in theatre and
39:17
the two doctors saying, of course, it's this way.
39:19
Bang crash, that's when they arrive.
39:23
I've on carful and Perry. Says yes sir.
39:25
Bang crash credit, Sheila, okay? Like fairly Savvy editing that
39:31
you just have the excess maybe a little bit longer.
39:33
A little bit shorter and choose a moment though.
39:36
That was right worth having as a cliffhanger.
39:39
I don't think anybody cared. You see, still there that he's
39:44
gained very excitable sitting there on his perch.
39:46
Isn't he watching all the tools? You really is a little, Tim
39:49
digging into those marshmallows, the look on the His face is
39:53
melting. So this scene where the doctor
39:55
and Perry come out of the tireless, I think is really
39:57
funny and confident and well done.
40:00
It's got a light touch that usually includes our friend Ron
40:03
Jones. Yeah.
40:05
And I feel like they could have done with a bit more of this
40:08
actually in this season solutely and why does this feel like it
40:11
was worked up in rehearsals because everyone liked the
40:13
script. No having fun with it.
40:14
It's really good. I think in the J NT Memoirs he
40:18
mentions. This one is one of his favorites
40:21
like for How it turned out and I mean this was just this was just
40:26
pre, the ax coming down, wasn't it?
40:29
Like they were kind of Riding High at this point, Colin
40:31
Baker's in, you know, they've got a couple of decent scripts
40:34
in the ratings. What terrible about 7 million?
40:39
At this point, those things were identical today but since last
40:42
season, so this point there were like we kind of like a that
40:47
interview he gave where he said he's going to be in the role of
40:49
the doctor for the next 10 years.
40:53
This is absolutely a possibility and then all that work out for
40:56
ya Thang. Yeah, well I mean he's knocked
40:59
out big finish's for over 10 years as they come on.
41:02
That's true but I think. Well, try 25 years.
41:05
Yeah but this this season to me feels confident.
41:09
I know people have problems with it but I think the series was
41:11
actually traveling quite well. I think it was The money was
41:14
being put on the screen. I think for every misstep you
41:18
had like attack the side men's bit of a misstep because it's
41:20
just self-referential. Nostalgia doesn't really grip.
41:24
The viewers. You had new and interesting
41:25
things like this and new villains.
41:27
Like the Ronnie and I think it's pretty good.
41:30
I think the program didn't deserve to be axed.
41:34
I've got to say attack of the Cybermen aside because in part
41:38
to it just like do it. There's a deep dive into really
41:41
confusing boring continuity. T.
41:44
It actually one of the things that's leveled at mid 80s.
41:48
Doctor Who is it leaves? Too much into the past?
41:50
I think it does interesting things with the past in Season.
41:53
22. I think are you got a new
41:55
Renegade Time? Lord coming in, I think
41:57
revelation of the Daleks uses. The Daleks really interesting in
42:01
that sort of Soylent Green style twist and it's funny having the
42:04
doctrine Jamie back that works. Yeah, that was really well and
42:08
it's a very different. Can I just say this is great.
42:11
Background extra delivery here, right?
42:16
Who cares what he's saying? Look at him.
42:21
It's a spoilt for choice in this episode went.
42:23
Yes. If I was a capitalist slug, you
42:26
know, going around, all those are exactly the sort of people
42:29
are be taking around with me saying that's true.
42:32
Water me, you know, hey, we're getting into the Reeds here.
42:37
I have to say if I had my choice, I might be Nicola Bryant
42:40
in this scene, wrapping our hands around shirtless Jason
42:42
Connery. Honestly I think she felt some a
42:45
comment Rich guys. Are that was a chore that day's
42:47
work. I'll just click it on to his
42:50
waist. I'll really really like this
42:54
scene. I think it's really it's clever
42:57
of the doctor the way that he kind of sets Chand are free and
43:00
people complain about the fact. The doctor in a moment is going
43:04
to leave. The laser on to fry the guard.
43:07
They say that's very on dr. Ish thing.
43:08
I think it's terribly funny because this hapless God just
43:11
said He's obviously the blind man that it was talking about
43:17
also helped with the shortage of people to laser eyes as well.
43:23
But poor blind man. Yeah, they just shot them in the
43:26
course to the right. You you're the canary go around
43:29
that corner. What was going on around there?
43:33
Just take a look. Maybe.
43:36
Okay. Clearly.
43:38
You have got quite a dark sense of humor and so do I, but maybe
43:41
you need that to enjoy this. Yeah, maybe I'll make a left.
43:46
How can you not enjoy this? It's really entertaining and
43:49
it's entertaining in a Darkly comic.
43:52
Way I love this run. Run, go on run.
43:56
That's what always seems to the doctor when he's getting away
43:59
from the enemy. I mean, this is about the doctor
44:03
running up and down a load of corridors facing dangers.
44:05
If you're a doctor who fan, you're not going to enjoy that.
44:07
We are in a bit of trouble on Exactly.
44:10
So this is a Pastiche of video nasties.
44:12
Sure. But it's also this great
44:14
friendly, mockery of Doctor. Who of course it's going to be
44:17
running up and down corridors with tricks and traps and you
44:20
know, the monster that turns out to be C are so awesome green
44:23
lights, which will come to and of course, as viewers were
44:26
sitting there going, I like that one.
44:29
The one in the funny clothes. Now I like that one.
44:32
The one in? No clothes.
44:35
That's right. You'll get two more of them.
44:37
Next episode. I hope you enjoyed that as much.
44:39
What Ones in the nappies. Either
45:09
electronic Bolts that go around the say, it's not look very
45:13
great and they never hell. Are they do it very fast?
45:16
High on. I swear, there's another one.
45:18
I know. I'm okay.
45:19
Okay. Venture for us, happiness,
45:20
Patrol and I think you could possibly just put mysterious
45:23
planet in there as well. Oh yeah, we go all that.
45:26
Well, it doesn't really work, does it?
45:29
No. Can I just point out that we're
45:31
about to eat? We know, we need a moment of
45:33
silence because John does about to pretty sure.
45:34
Saint boom. I want to know I mean, it's all
45:45
gonna look at him.
45:57
Great! Great, they're getting away,
45:59
it's great. It's tremendous, isn't it?
46:03
In fact, here comes the line. See the she said though, this
46:09
bunch of Robos are good. Same way we go, our this bunch
46:12
of regulars are great. You know, I love it.
46:15
Exactly. Well, you know, these characters
46:17
in this story are quite fun. If there's one last story that
46:20
would think my master - you know, about Corridor wondering
46:24
Terminus is God, the good, it doesn't feel like they've looked
46:28
over their shoulder at just how much wondering about corridors
46:32
that Pete Davidson did. And they said, well, let's do a
46:33
Savage commentary on that. We have these two characters
46:36
watching them saying it was getting a bit boring in it, you
46:39
know. It's true and it's also its
46:43
fertile ground for dr. Robert Holmes did in Carnival of
46:45
monsters. When you know there's you know
46:47
they're watching on the scope and the doctor tells you all
46:50
about it and show says if the people watching their Adventures
46:52
on the scope TV, they must be evil and horrible.
46:58
Oh and then you get great showing the Galaxy as well.
47:00
Don't you? When they go well, something has
47:02
to happen soon as they create never seems to get any better,
47:07
does it farther? I know.
47:10
Carrie's right for that sort of comment, re not too often
47:13
because then it comes up because Buffy the Vampire Slayer where
47:15
it's, you know, examining itself old.
47:17
Oh, I love this bit down the purple passage if your party.
47:20
Yeah, I mean, yeah, don't go down the purple passage.
47:23
That's left is me but I do have a bit of a thing and I'm not
47:27
talk about a sexual thing that I've got a bit of a thing about
47:29
flies. Oh, really?
47:32
Yeah, so when I saw this as a child horrible ugly massive fly
47:37
with his mouth open Oh, I kind of look at it.
47:41
Now that's pretty Grim. Are you like Athena and adverbs
47:44
you go and check the fly on every window to make sure it's
47:46
not Jeff Goldblum. I think it's because somebody
47:48
talked me through them stamping vomit into food and definitely
47:54
and then and then they eat the vomit and the food.
47:57
And yeah, they get it's just revolting, we're talking about
48:01
flies and not your friend. That's okay, I'm not too sure
48:05
anymore. If I'm honest with ya, it's a
48:08
see. Look at this, this is quite
48:09
simply. Lee realized it's just purple
48:12
light and some CSO, it's a pretty simple Studio bound
48:16
production and it's kind of stage.
48:17
He but that just puts the performances say to stage, but
48:20
they turn the bloody lights down, the music is great, and
48:24
they're playing it with conviction.
48:26
Yep: completely sells it, I think.
48:30
And that single this will in the world this story that scene and
48:35
the whole story with the best will in the world, he tells an
48:37
always sell it for me, but he definitely does during This
48:40
story, I do know, one thing really kind of struck me
48:44
watching this earlier was how much he was clearly loving
48:48
playing the doctor in this story.
48:50
This is why stories that puts him Center Stage, gives him lots
48:53
to do and speeches, you know, moral indignation and all of
48:57
that and he's loving it. There is a school of thought
49:01
that the sting might have been taken out of this.
49:03
If it was Peter Davison, as Doctor, you know, a doctor who
49:05
was quieter and bit more subtle and an actor who didn't.
49:09
So obviously relish them. I'm sympathetic to it but I do
49:12
not agree with it. I think this is Collins best
49:15
performance in the role because he's fun and he's puckish which
49:19
he isn't usually. He's kind of commandingly.
49:22
Sure his performance, it's because he's being given really
49:25
good material and dr. Ish things to do look at him.
49:28
Here he is. Absolutely the center of
49:30
attention, he is commanding screen.
49:33
It has something very simple here in a minute where he lets
49:34
the fly. Go and then his eye line goes
49:37
like like it's just thinking about everything.
49:40
Do you know what that I was just thinking about that scene on the
49:42
scaffolding, you know, where he's at.
49:45
You know, condemning the Society of arras and seal, when the
49:51
mentors and all that. One of the things in the story,
49:54
it's really, really great. And I was about to say, to know
49:55
what, I can't imagine that would be as strong if they've son was
49:59
playing it just but actually, then I think back to stories
50:02
like, Frontiers where he could be a proper Grump.
50:05
Yeah, it's fantastic. If they've some was playing
50:07
season, 21 Davison, it would equally Right.
50:10
And actually I've said before that, I think from TLC is the
50:14
best performance of the doctor. I agree with you to show all in
50:19
the history of the show. I thought you were going to say
50:21
Davison's performance, I think well yes same but it is the best
50:26
representation of the doctor on screen.
50:28
He is so funny and magnetic and charming, and a bit, weird and
50:33
Davis and plays it to the hilt. Not a worth of the time Lords
50:36
pay. All right, exactly.
50:38
No. But I love is where we finally
50:40
started. Gonna get Tegan is like take
50:42
those down issue that I've just put them up well jolly good now
50:44
you can take them down again Davidson was always rushing
50:48
around and so he comes in just looking around wildly and so
50:52
those wires pull them down. Only just put them up jolly
50:55
good. Now you can pull them down
50:57
again. He is terrific.
51:00
In fact I Can't Take My Eyes Off him in Frontiers in a way that I
51:04
think back to like a season earlier in Arkham Infinity where
51:06
I just I'm just bored throughout the entire thing.
51:10
I like Just he's got it at that point, I'll look at Forbes,
51:13
Collins eating up these lines, it's pretty amazing.
51:17
That's not only Primetime viewing on this world.
51:21
Look at that with, he's grinning face and he's bald he had, it's
51:24
amazing. You know when people say like go
51:27
invite the guest actors in they'll have a great time doing
51:30
Doctor Who that's exactly what they're talking about, things
51:33
like that. Exactly, just relish everything
51:36
that you're gonna. Yeah.
51:36
He's got the same response that Colin's got a Collins relishing.
51:40
Everything he's doing this. He's not going over the top with
51:42
it. He knows that it's a satire and
51:44
so he's keeping it at that level.
51:46
It's great. I think as a kid though I was I
51:52
mean, I was quite impressionable, child, but I
51:54
think I was genuinely scared for the doctor and Perry watching
51:58
this, when I first watched it sort of age 12, you know, I was
52:01
absolutely absorbed into the story.
52:03
Obviously, we're talking about this now, with all the knowledge
52:05
you've gained since and you know, pulling apart the
52:08
production, I was just in this when I was first watching it,
52:11
you know it's also it feels quite adults in that, from that
52:16
childish perspective, I mean, look at now I don't think
52:18
particularly adults, I think it's an effective satire but
52:21
it's not, you know, Television made for a 9 p.m.
52:23
Sunday audience. But as a child, it feels what
52:26
they've been put into quite a grim world and it's quite
52:28
dangerous and it's not it's not Cybermen or sontarans, it's
52:33
nasty people and it feels important because of that it
52:37
feels like an important story and one web something could
52:40
happen to the doctrine, the companion.
52:42
Well, I mean we've not so long lost a dreg have way so it's not
52:48
out of the realm of possibility. That, you know, I remember at
52:50
the end of this one, which he got Captured now and as she got
52:53
slapped around the face as a kid, I was appalled.
52:55
When I was like, yeah, I still think that's a little bit,
52:57
shocking actually. And it's one of two occasions.
53:00
Whenever when a doctor who companion has been slapped, the
53:05
other one, I was me when I met Jack Elena slap, that it's yeah.
53:22
Going on woman violence. It doesn't feel as quite as
53:25
awful as this does or okay. I'm going to take a little
53:30
diversion sin because I do think some of how Perry was treated in
53:36
her tenure was a little bit on the nose and I think Nicola
53:41
Bryant is really good at playing fear and you know sometimes I'm
53:48
like it's a bit much some points of case managers on Any not so
53:53
much in this one, obviously, twin dilemma.
53:56
What do you think? I mean I yeah I think she does
53:59
play a little bit like Janet Fielding did as a normal person
54:03
in these events, which I don't think you can do.
54:05
I think you've got to play it to that heightened slightly
54:08
childish level like this Laden or Katie Manning.
54:10
Dear Works a treat that's it. I think Nicola delivers great
54:16
performance and I think she's particularly good in this story
54:20
because the relationship between her and the governor is really
54:23
important and really strong. And so I think it's It's a
54:27
really good story for her. And in contrast to the received
54:31
wisdom, I think she's given quite a lot of good material is
54:35
season. There are some lesser highlights
54:37
like having all of the monsters lusting after, and, and that
54:41
kind of thing. She's not giving a lot of
54:42
agency. I have to say, but she has
54:46
interesting relationships, independent of the doctor with
54:49
characters, like the governor and the wrong, Arnie, and sha
54:52
Chi and the DJ. And so, I think she's quite well
54:55
catered For Or actually she's a lot of fun in Revelation of the
54:59
Daleks. I'll all that other.
55:01
Those rose red ruby lips were made for kissing one.
55:04
Not by me. Not by you know,
55:27
Let us down now she's good in this one.
55:30
Yeah. You want to look at a, say
55:31
something about it then, oh, well, we are getting ready for
55:35
one of the all-time great Cliffhangers fabulous, isn't it?
55:40
And again, it's mounted quite simplistically.
55:42
I was just a Crossfade with stock footage, but the lighting
55:46
and Colin's performance, and especially the music just sell
55:49
the hell out of it. I, I think this would be a much
55:52
lesser story without This. Brilliant Cliffhanger, anchoring
55:55
it? I think, The, the last seen in
55:58
both episodes that the Elevate this for me, I love the last
56:02
scene of the last episode as well.
56:03
Yeah, you know, both riffing on the same thing, aren't they?
56:06
This is 80 stops who. So, this is the point of Doctor
56:08
Who, but they really can fuck things up.
56:10
You know, like in the execution and yet, they kept this so
56:13
perfect. Because I think probably the you
56:16
might want to end on Colin's face like down and then they cut
56:21
to him going and cut it now. And that's just such a great
56:25
move. Yeah.
56:26
And I mean, it's again, it's that Common Ground doctor.
56:28
All of those zooms we had in on, you know, Peter Davison at the
56:32
end of the episodes in that, the way that the governor is like
56:35
and hold on, the death throes, he's amazing.
56:38
He just imagine Ron Jones in the in the studio for Arc of
56:42
infinity, okay? And hold on the death throes and
56:44
cut it. This I was going to say John
56:46
nathan-turner. No Mary Whitehouse wouldn't be
56:48
upset yet another two seconds. Okay, go cut it.
56:53
I have a hunch that Jane T probably watched a video nasty.
56:56
Have a nice time. But yeah I believe you and so
57:01
you know I was utterly convinced by these Dreadful effects.
57:04
I wish y'all know it's like he's really in a desert, you know.
57:08
He thinks he's in a desert in the studio.
57:11
Well, you know, I think it goes back to what we were saying that
57:12
some people think it's a bit too simple and stagy.
57:15
I think it works brilliantly. Actually I think is that classic
57:19
Doctor Who thing that of if the actor sells it with conviction
57:22
and he does then oh absolutely. Yeah I was this like this whole
57:28
yeah I'll go go on. Okay so the whole lead up to
57:31
this Cliffhanger it takes a long time and it builds
57:33
remorselessly. It's great sales line, he goes
57:37
dead as death. Amazing here we go.
57:46
Are we gonna say along with him? I'm ready for it, I'm ready.
57:50
But call is the colonies is moment of these girls and you
57:53
get that really long. Nice.
57:55
Close-up as well. Like I hold on that shot.
57:58
The doctor for a long time. It's a lot.
58:02
This is about power Ron Jones best ever work on the program.
58:05
This oh yeah, yeah yeah I agree. And look at that.
58:11
It's just it's just a it's just a fade in it's so simply done
58:16
and it's amazing. And that's horrific that that
58:20
that close-up of his face on moving like he has actually
58:24
died. It's like the rictus of death.
58:27
Yeah. And cut it.
58:32
Now, some people like this player, what's wrong with
58:39
people? I don't know.
58:41
I think it needs a vastly more appreciative audience, I think
58:45
people get caught up with the with the criticisms of the era
58:50
and so we'll see you next episode, you know, the acid
58:52
Barre sequence, people actually criticized it for the wrong
58:55
things they say. Oh this happened and that
58:57
happened, bollocks. It's not what happens in the
59:00
scene. They're just getting carried
59:01
away with criticism. Love it.
59:03
I don't even mind the Joker. The air is not a great joke but
59:06
I don't mind the doctor throwing.
59:08
If you'll forgive me, acidic bulb at the two people that have
59:12
just dispatched, I'm not going to forgive you for that.
59:17
My Palms were, is good. Absolutely the two.
59:21
Doctors one as well. Exactly.
59:30
Which I think is quite funny. I mean, You do have to have a
59:33
dark sense of humor to know, is it deliberately leading into
59:36
that sort of bonding? That's terrible.
59:40
Death gags. Yeah, and I mean those rods and
59:43
more James Bond films, where he would just make terrible gags.
59:48
At the end of scenes is quite comforting, it's quite fun.
59:52
I have been making my way through a Blu-ray set of James
59:56
Bond movies and unfortunately, I have stalled on one film and it
1:00:00
is a Roger Moore one. Maybe Moonraker is, but not for
1:00:09
the reasons, not for the reasons that you might be thinking.
1:00:13
Okay? I feel as if James Bond peaked
1:00:15
at that point, it's so absurd that I'm never going to enjoy
1:00:18
another Bond movie honest to God, when he was in Venice,
1:00:21
going that speed boat, I was laughing.
1:00:23
My enough once they started introducing that recurring texts
1:00:27
and Sheriff. He's honored a isn't he in that
1:00:31
one? He is as just kind of like I
1:00:34
appreciate the joke here but not anymore.
1:00:36
What? I sum all that Dreadful man.
1:00:39
It wasn't. I'm jaws with the teeth doors.
1:00:41
Yeah. And then he goes off into the
1:00:42
sunset with his girlfriend. It's quite amazing.
1:00:45
I was about to say to know what are doing offshoot after.
1:00:47
I've done all the Doctor Who's and, dude, did you James Bond
1:00:50
has? But unfortunately, all been done
1:00:51
already. I was actually they have been,
1:00:54
although you could get in touch. There's your podcast with
1:00:56
Richard Stone. You can get into such an two
1:00:59
into one of his own fingers. I'm sleepy to me up and eat me
1:01:03
for breakfast that one. We're late.
1:01:06
Well, maybe for breakfast, there's still time.
1:01:13
All right. What look that was delirious
1:01:16
Farm but I feel like you and I should probably head into
1:01:19
episode 2. Now that sounds good.
1:01:22
Let's do it. Wash.
1:01:24
I will cut the episode