Latest / The Property Unleashed Podcast / Scaling Short-Term Rentals the Smart Way with Graham Lindley

Transcript

Scaling Short-Term Rentals the Smart Way with Graham Lindley · The Property Unleashed Podcast

0:10
SPEAKER_01: Okay, brilliant stuff.
0:12
SPEAKER_01: So welcome to today's session.
0:15
SPEAKER_01: Today I have a good friend of mine on, actually, and I'm really chucked to have him here.
0:18
SPEAKER_01: I've got Graham Lilly with me.
0:20
SPEAKER_01: How are you, Graham?
0:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, very well, thank you.
0:22
SPEAKER_00: Good to be here, mate.
0:23
SPEAKER_01: Good stuff, good stuff.
0:25
SPEAKER_01: Always a pleasure to see you, always inspiration as well, because you've always got something going on.
0:29
SPEAKER_01: You're always a busy man.
0:31
SPEAKER_01: And of course, you know, you've got a young family as well, and you've got quite a few different businesses.
0:37
SPEAKER_01: But predominantly the business that we talk about a lot, or the business I talk about a lot, is uh Prim Short Stays, which is your service accommodation short-term rental business.
0:47
SPEAKER_01: And what I want to do in this session was really do a bit of a refresh for people.
0:51
SPEAKER_01: Some people will know who you are, some people won't.
0:54
SPEAKER_01: So it's one of those really just to sort of go back over, you know, a bit about Graham Lindley and how he got into, you know, the businesses that he got into, if that's all right with you.
1:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
1:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I can um talk about myself all day long.
1:09
SPEAKER_01: Good stuff, good stuff.
1:11
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, just just give us a little bit of a background then about yourself and and obviously how you got into the property market.
1:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it all started really.
1:21
SPEAKER_00: Uh I was I was on the tools, I was an engineer, I was out on the road, driving a lot, probably over 45,000 miles a year.
1:29
SPEAKER_00: So really it started with the kind of self-development and just listening to podcasts and audiobooks and just realizing I, you know, I wanted to do more, I was kind of destined to do more.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: I had a I had a neighbor actually who was a sales guy who was looking to buy a franchise of you know in the field that I was working.
1:47
SPEAKER_00: So I looked, I looked at that with him and I just thought, you know, it's quite a mature market, it's going to take 10 years at least to become established.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: The numbers didn't quite add up.
1:58
SPEAKER_00: But I wanted more.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: I knew I wanted to do something, and I had my skill set being an engineer and you know, doing maintenance work on systems.
2:06
SPEAKER_00: But I was I was also looking at the trajectory within that industry and just thinking, well, you know, next step is middle management.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: That's not really for me.
2:14
SPEAKER_00: I don't enjoy management of people.
2:17
SPEAKER_00: So in March, I enjoyed kind of like just being out and having the varied thing.
2:22
SPEAKER_00: But it also brought with it some flexibility, you know, just the fact that I was driving so much I could listen and develop my skills a lot.
2:29
SPEAKER_00: And initially, my kind of chosen route to financial fortress, uh, financial freedom, if you like, was going to be, you know, getting into trading and professional trading, you know, forex markets and all of that.
2:42
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I took it very seriously.
2:43
SPEAKER_00: But also, when you're on a when you're selling your time for money and you're on an hourly rate and you've then got exposure to the market, it's very difficult to kind of park your emotions ultimately, which is what you need to do to be a professional trader, you know, you you understand your edge and then you start making decisions, separate those decisions from your emotions.
3:00
SPEAKER_00: But when you've got like five days' salary and you're thinking how hard it is to do five days of work, you know, on the line, and you started to kind of wake up and panic about the performance of the Japanese yen.
3:10
SPEAKER_00: I just thought, you know, this isn't very healthy.
3:13
SPEAKER_00: And I just thought, you know, am I really going to enjoy it?
3:16
SPEAKER_00: Am I do I lose track of time when I'm doing it?
3:19
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a really good kind of bell weather is to to like whether you really do enjoy something.
3:24
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I just I just wasn't really enjoying it.
3:27
SPEAKER_00: And and I think I was coming to that realization, and at the same time, I was also finding it quite lonely.
3:33
SPEAKER_00: I was I was trying to look for other traders, people that I could meet up with and and maybe find a mentor locally instead of someone online.
3:41
SPEAKER_00: And there was a website, I don't even know if it's still going, but it's called meetup.com.
3:45
SPEAKER_00: And it was a it was a great way to kind of find networking events and yeah, just groups of people that had uh various interests.
3:52
SPEAKER_00: And I saw a property networking thing, and uh there was a guy that was speaking, that was going to be speaking, who had apparently retired at the age of 35 through using other people's money in the property industry.
4:07
SPEAKER_00: And I thought immediately, I thought, well, that sounds like a scam, but I'm somewhat interested.
4:11
SPEAKER_00: Let's go along.
4:11
SPEAKER_00: It's relatively local, and I'll never forget.
4:14
SPEAKER_00: I said to my wife at the time, I was like, Well, look, it says networking in the bar from 9 p.m.
4:19
SPEAKER_00: So I'll be home just after nine.
4:20
SPEAKER_00: I'm not really interested in that.
4:22
SPEAKER_00: And then I was in a room full of property investors, and I was like, wow, like loving it, because actually by then I already had my first bite to let, and there was people looking to get there first.
4:31
SPEAKER_00: So I was able to kind of offer a bit of advice and some powers of wisdom to those guys, and then there's people in there that had 20, and I just thought, how's that even possible?
4:38
SPEAKER_00: I've got no idea.
4:38
SPEAKER_00: So I was learning from them, and you know, the the networking in the bar started, and I was like, Well, I need to speak to that guy, and there's that there's that guy over there.
4:46
SPEAKER_00: And before I know it, it was like 11 o'clock and or half eleven, they were kicking everyone out, and and then we were outside in the car park, still like energized, and I was like, wow, I've lost track of time.
4:56
SPEAKER_00: I love this kind of world, and I just found it fascinating.
5:00
SPEAKER_00: I I'd always taken a bit of an interest in like homes under the hammer, that kind of thing.
5:04
SPEAKER_00: But I found my calling.
5:05
SPEAKER_00: Ultimately, I was like, right, I no matter what, I'm getting into property.
5:08
SPEAKER_00: I don't know how or what exactly.
5:10
SPEAKER_00: And actually, interestingly, that's where the name prim came from because I just I just knew I had to do it and I didn't know what exactly I was going to be doing.
5:18
SPEAKER_00: So my first business is where the name prim came from.
5:22
SPEAKER_00: And it was really it was from the words property, renovation, investment, management.
5:28
SPEAKER_00: So it's P R I M.
5:30
SPEAKER_00: And obviously it's got like connotations like Prim and Proper and doing things professionally and you know, being smart, and and that's really what I was all about.
5:38
SPEAKER_00: They're my values.
5:39
SPEAKER_00: So so yeah, it was it was it was probably not for another nine months from there before I got my first unit, and it was it was uh it was a rent to SA opportunity, and you know, even that was quite a journey.
5:52
SPEAKER_00: And I think because I was you know, part of what I did as a job, I was a fire alarm engineer, and I'd already started to build relationships with local agents and and you know, just people in the in the industry.
6:04
SPEAKER_00: And I still remember where I was, it was it was in Birmingham.
6:07
SPEAKER_00: I was in someone's front garden with a big set of ladders, and I got a phone call from an agent saying, right, I'm gonna be taking over a block.
6:13
SPEAKER_00: It's not on the market yet, it's just a small block, four one-bed apartments, right in the city centre of Nottingham.
6:20
SPEAKER_00: Um and I need your help because it's got a fire alarm, and I don't really know, you know, is it is it a good fire alarm?
6:27
SPEAKER_00: Is it up to specification?
6:28
SPEAKER_00: You know, what do I need to do?
6:30
SPEAKER_00: And straight away I was like, right, I'll come down, I'll see you in person.
6:33
SPEAKER_00: And it was it was quite funny because we it was like quite late in the evening and we were walking around this empty block and it was nice.
6:40
SPEAKER_00: It was like, you know, granite worktops in the kitchen, it was just brand new refurb.
6:45
SPEAKER_00: It was right bang in the middle of the city centre.
6:48
SPEAKER_00: And and I said to uh this agent, I said, Look, I'm I'm actually really interested.
6:52
SPEAKER_00: And he was like, Oh, is it is everything all right at home, Graham?
6:55
SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, why do you want a one-bed flat?
6:59
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Oh no, no, I want the block, you know.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: But there's this thing called service accommodation, it's really exciting.
7:05
SPEAKER_00: And he was like, traditional agent, you know, old school, like sounds like subletting, red flags, red flags, you know, not allowed.
7:13
SPEAKER_00: But actually, you know, I had met at that networking event, I'd met a guy, Rashpal, and he he'd already started, he'd moved his own portfolio over to service accommodation.
7:23
SPEAKER_00: So for me, he he was the expert, and immediately I brought him in and he he knew how to kind of stack the deal and also present the case for service accommodation.
7:33
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, I I remember I arranged a meeting, Rashpal, myself, and this agent, and he did a fantastic job of just helping the agent understand like this is actually a very pragmatic uh like use case for the building.
7:47
SPEAKER_00: Actually, it's going to work better than long-term rentals.
7:49
SPEAKER_00: There's no parking, there's no storage, they're quite small units.
7:52
SPEAKER_00: So this works really, really well, and it brings a lot of flexibility, benefits to the kind of superior landlord.
7:59
SPEAKER_00: So at that point, we had the agent like fully on board.
8:02
SPEAKER_00: He was like, right, I get it, I think it's brilliant, and yeah, I will put this forward to the landlords.
8:08
SPEAKER_00: Now, at the time, landlords they weren't in any rush, they're not property people, they were big business people parking some money in an asset, and you know, it was a different world to me to be able to like park half a million in an asset and not even be worried about an immediate return, but they were in no rush at all.
8:22
SPEAKER_00: So it took at least six months from that, from that point.
8:26
SPEAKER_00: And in the end, I decided to kind of run with it without rash.
8:29
SPEAKER_00: He was very, very much focused on his own portfolio, and so yeah, I was just every single day working on the plan, work testing software, you know, starting to build the brand and you know, like learning about what other people were doing, doing like competitor analysis, and just every day, something, even if it was just five minutes, it was like that compound effect.
8:50
SPEAKER_00: I just knew I had to just drive it forwards, and I put together a proper business plan.
8:54
SPEAKER_00: You know, it was it was something I I knew it was an opportunity and I was taking it very seriously.
9:00
SPEAKER_00: And then one day I finally got that phone call.
9:02
SPEAKER_00: Right, they're ready to meet you.
9:04
SPEAKER_00: Uh can you make yourself available at 8 a.m.
9:07
SPEAKER_00: next Tuesday?
9:07
SPEAKER_00: I was like, right, I'm gonna be there.
9:08
SPEAKER_00: And you know, look, fair play to the landlords, super professional, very successful business guys.
9:14
SPEAKER_00: And I've sat in their big uh like Alan Sugar style boardroom, like with my little little business plan going, right?
9:20
SPEAKER_00: Take a chance on me.
9:21
SPEAKER_00: And you know, it was interesting because everyone around me, like my family and anyone that I kind of showed the kind of plan to, they were like, Are you are you sure you want to do this?
9:31
SPEAKER_00: This is a lot of risk.
9:32
SPEAKER_00: Like the rent on that building alone is is more than what you earn.
9:36
SPEAKER_00: It's it's way too much risk.
9:37
SPEAKER_00: You probably shouldn't do it.
9:38
SPEAKER_00: And then again, it was at another property networking event.
9:41
SPEAKER_00: There was a guy who was like the deal analyzer professional, and I ran it past him and he was like, No brainer.
9:46
SPEAKER_00: I was like, right, that's it.
9:47
SPEAKER_00: I knew it.
9:47
SPEAKER_00: You know, like that was all I needed to run with it.
9:50
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, we we thankfully we got it over the line, had to furnish it.
9:54
SPEAKER_00: I borrowed money from literally everyone, maxed out all my credit cards just to kind of be able to get this these units live.
10:00
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, we hit we hit the ground running.
10:02
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was incredible.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: Like the moment it all went live on the portals, the booking started to come in in thick and fast.
10:08
SPEAKER_00: That was that was at right at the start of 2017.
10:11
SPEAKER_00: So it's like 2016 when I decided to really kind of go for it, and 2017 when we finally opened the doors and went live.
10:19
SPEAKER_00: And uh yeah, honestly, we hit the ground running, started to to to build a reputation, kept in touch with Rash.
10:26
SPEAKER_00: Interestingly, he later became a business partner in something else.
10:30
SPEAKER_00: He's he's a software expert, and you know, we can we can talk about the other businesses in a bit, but yeah, I mean, ultimately, Rash he said, Look, do you want my cleaner?
10:38
SPEAKER_00: It was like it was it was weird to me.
10:40
SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm I'm I was kind of thinking my business is all like you know, cloak and dagger, and like you know, you have to kind of keep everything a secret.
10:47
SPEAKER_00: And suddenly I was in this world of property and everyone was like helping each other and sharing, and it was just really nice for me.
10:52
SPEAKER_00: I was like, right, this is this is a bit of me.
10:54
SPEAKER_00: I love this, you know.
10:55
SPEAKER_00: So uh yeah, and then actually I got offered a unit in the same building where Rash was operating.
11:02
SPEAKER_00: One of the other landlords went to him and said, Look, I'm I'm interested in doing service accommodation.
11:06
SPEAKER_00: Rash was very busy, he was like I say, he was focused on his own portfolio, so he introduced them to me.
11:12
SPEAKER_00: And at the time, it's all I really knew was rent to SA.
11:15
SPEAKER_00: And everything I was doing, like the systems I was implementing, bearing in mind I spent 19 years as an engineer and I was always thinking about like the business as a system and you know, making it scalable.
11:26
SPEAKER_00: I was kind of confident on everything except that business model of like get having the liability of the rent.
11:31
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's fine while it's working, but what if it doesn't work?
11:35
SPEAKER_00: What if there's a black swan event?
11:37
SPEAKER_00: What if there's a COVID lockdown in the future?
11:39
SPEAKER_00: Now, obviously, I didn't know that was going to be happening, but I was thinking the business, the underlying model of just keep adding more and more and more liability and guaranteed rent, it wasn't massively scalable.
11:50
SPEAKER_00: It was a great way to get in, but I didn't really know what the solution to that was at that point in time.
11:55
SPEAKER_00: And then I met this guy that was introduced to me.
11:58
SPEAKER_00: And he interestingly, he worked for a massive service accommodation company in their accounts team down in London.
12:05
SPEAKER_00: And he said to me, I'd like just standard mentor rent.
12:08
SPEAKER_00: So, what rent do you want?
12:09
SPEAKER_00: You know, what can we agree on?
12:11
SPEAKER_00: Gave him the pattern, you know, there's no voids, we'll look after maintenance, da-da-da-da-da.
12:14
SPEAKER_00: Trying to get it below market rent.
12:16
SPEAKER_00: And he said, No, no, no, I want to do Airbnb because I want more money.
12:21
SPEAKER_00: I was like, right.
12:22
SPEAKER_00: He said, Yeah, that the whole point is that I want the reward.
12:25
SPEAKER_00: I was like, Well, if you want the reward, you've got to take the risk.
12:27
SPEAKER_00: And he's like, Yeah, of course.
12:28
SPEAKER_00: Like, I was like, okay, so how about we do everything for you, but we'll just take a percentage of your revenue, it's is it's for you.
12:36
SPEAKER_00: And he was like, Yeah, exactly.
12:38
SPEAKER_00: That's that's perfect, we'll do that.
12:39
SPEAKER_00: So that's really where Prim Shop Stays was formed as a management business.
12:43
SPEAKER_00: It was a completely different model.
12:45
SPEAKER_00: And suddenly I realized, well, hang on, this is now something that's very scalable, right?
12:48
SPEAKER_00: We've got, we're not gonna be making anywhere near as much money, certainly in the summer, but we're gonna be making consistent money.
12:54
SPEAKER_00: So even if if revenues come down like 30% in the in the worst winter months, we're still making a revenue rather than having to subsidize the business.
13:03
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I guess that's that's really at that point.
13:06
SPEAKER_00: I was like, right, that's the thing that we're gonna be pushing for.
13:09
SPEAKER_00: And by the end of 2017, I I quit my job.
13:13
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I was doing it all everything.
13:15
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I mean, obviously, I was working every single minute of every day, every weekend.
13:19
SPEAKER_00: It was crazy.
13:20
SPEAKER_00: I was start, I was getting starved before I even gave up my job because I was very much of the mindset, like, I'm not I'm not going from having a job to owning a job, I'm going from having a job to owning a business.
13:29
SPEAKER_00: And I and I just thought, well, once I've got a business, I'm not going to be wanting to do all of these things myself.
13:34
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to need a team to do it.
13:35
SPEAKER_00: So might as well start straight away with a team.
13:37
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's one of the benefits of kind of starting a bit more slowly, doing it whilst I had a job, cash-flowing my life through the income that I was getting, and then all of the money that was in the business was able to kind of reinvest into the team and better systems and and so on and so forth.
13:53
SPEAKER_00: So, so yeah, by the end of 2017, we we had maybe 12 units under management, and I'd started to kind of make some good connections.
14:02
SPEAKER_00: By the end of 2019, so two years later, we were at 150 units across four cities and you know, big team, and it was it was all go go go.
14:12
SPEAKER_00: Probably too much go go go.
14:13
SPEAKER_00: I I think actually at the time I was under too much pressure.
14:17
SPEAKER_00: I'd probably grown it a bit too quickly.
14:18
SPEAKER_00: It was a bit of a mess, you know.
14:21
SPEAKER_00: So then COVID happened, right?
14:23
SPEAKER_00: And so it was like a real real like forced slowdown.
14:27
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, it's where we we pivoted somewhat.
14:29
SPEAKER_00: We we had the software that I kind of have alluded to, which enabled us our customer service team to kind of be in control of all of the workflows, everything that they need to do around the guest management side of things.
14:42
SPEAKER_00: And we had a 24 24-17, but going from 150 units to like 60 units in a very short amount of time, it was like suddenly it puts everything in jeopardy, and including the 24-17.
14:53
SPEAKER_00: And I just thought, well, hang on, I know that a lot of other service department operators don't have overnight cover, they need it.
14:59
SPEAKER_00: So we started offering it out as like a white label business-to-business solution just for a fixed fixed revenue per unit.
15:07
SPEAKER_00: So no longer were we kind of subject to the seasonality as much, and that enabled us to like really reinvest into the team because at the early days we were very much relying on kind of overseas VAs, which you know has its strengths, but also has its weaknesses.
15:22
SPEAKER_00: So it's really nice to be able to like reinvest into the business, onshore that, have like UK customer service, like during office hours.
15:30
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I I think then we just rebuilt it a little bit more carefully.
15:35
SPEAKER_00: We knew what it looked like at scale, and so this time we kind of came out the gates early.
15:39
SPEAKER_00: Like COVID, we were very we were hiring very early when everyone was still panicking and at home, and you know, through no fault of their own, there was a lot of people like that were great at their jobs that lost their jobs and available for work.
15:52
SPEAKER_00: So we hired like a a real like uh literally a call center manager who operated at scale, hotel manager that had operated at scale.
16:00
SPEAKER_00: So this time we we thought like we'll hire proper expertise and then grow properly.
16:05
SPEAKER_00: And it was a lot, it was a much slower, steadier growth.
16:08
SPEAKER_00: But now here we are, almost 300 units under management and operating like nationwide, you know, across most of the cities in the UK.
16:17
SPEAKER_00: So it's it's been quite a journey.
16:19
SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, along the way, we've kind of started a few kind of other related businesses as well, just kind of help.
16:27
SPEAKER_00: I think that's that sometimes you don't want to be doing absolutely everything in one business, it can distract the team.
16:32
SPEAKER_00: So actually, if there's something that's very much a separate thing that can benefit the business, you know, my my way of doing that has just been to kind of create a separate team, separate business completely.
16:42
SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
16:42
SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
16:43
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's that's really great and great detail and everything as well to see what you've achieved over that time because a lot of people start out and they're not 100%, you know, we we've all got our goals, we've all got what we're thinking, but I think that, like you say, the systemizing of the business, which is so, so important, particularly with holiday lets or short-term rentals, because it is a noisy business, isn't it?
17:03
SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of moving parts in it.
17:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is, yeah, exactly.
17:07
SPEAKER_00: That was it.
17:08
SPEAKER_00: In the early days, we mapped out the the workflows and like all of the steps we need to take before arrival, during the stay, after arrival, and it and it varies.
17:19
SPEAKER_00: You know, is this a long-term guest?
17:20
SPEAKER_00: Is this a two-night stay?
17:22
SPEAKER_00: Did they book through Airbnb or booking.com?
17:24
SPEAKER_00: Do we need to worry about payments, deposits, getting the ID, arranging the housekeeping?
17:30
SPEAKER_00: And also like the preventative maintenance engineer within me kind of came out if we had an issue with a cleaner, we went back to that kind of workflow thing and going, right, actually, we need to add an extra step in there to prevent that from happening again.
17:42
SPEAKER_00: But that became a little bit unwieldy, and there wasn't really anything off the shelf, as it were.
17:47
SPEAKER_00: Like there was no software that would enable you to kind of manage all these steps.
17:50
SPEAKER_00: Everyone has a PMS or channel manager, as we call it, and they're primarily there to sync your availability, sync your rates, and with some automations, but you still need to manage everything, and then when this happens, then do that, you know, and that when you've only got VAs and you're constantly having to remind them of like the next step, it's not scalable.
18:10
SPEAKER_00: So that's why we initially we built what we call an MVP, like a basic system using off-the-shelf software with some kind of API automations on the back end.
18:20
SPEAKER_00: But then when I partnered with Rash to kind of show him what I'd done and say, look, there's a there is a real gap in the market here, we that's when we formed Guest Flow.
18:28
SPEAKER_00: And you know, from there we we decided to kind of turn this whole solution into a product that anyone could anyone could subscribe to and it just plugs into a PMS and then really enables businesses to have control of those workflows.
18:43
SPEAKER_00: If you imagine like a flow diagram of like 76 different things you're doing, sometimes you do do things and sometimes you don't, and you've got guests at every point in that journey.
18:50
SPEAKER_00: Some have been sat there for three months, others just booked today to arrive today, and they've got to get through loads of them.
18:56
SPEAKER_00: And managing that at scale across different cities, it gets a bit unwieldy.
19:00
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, noisy, like you say, it's a very, very noisy business.
19:04
SPEAKER_00: And back then we didn't have AI to help like automate anything on that side of things.
19:08
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, that was that's really why we decided to kind of create the software company on the side and really like provide that as a solution for other similar businesses, and that that's something that we're now like taking global, you know.
19:22
SPEAKER_01: That's amazing because you obviously you saw the problem for yourself, you solved the problem for yourself, but why not solve that problem for other people?
19:28
SPEAKER_01: So, when it comes to sort of your guest flow and using that system, what sort of size do you think people should be at to actually, you know, really be able to get the most out of it?
19:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we've got customers with like just a couple of units, but I think the real value add is when you start when it starts to get slightly out of hands, probably eight, nine, ten units, certainly getting up towards 20 and above.
19:48
SPEAKER_00: We've we've got we've got a customer with almost 400 units as well, and that's where it really steps into its own.
19:54
SPEAKER_00: But I think, yeah, like the the bigger you are, the more of a problem it is, and it's it can become a real bottleneck, you know.
20:02
SPEAKER_00: I never forget actually, one of the first big clients I was working with, you know, very big developer in Nottingham, and I was sat in their boardroom and I was showing them the systems like, look, give me your units to manage, it's gonna get done properly, have a look at how we do it.
20:15
SPEAKER_00: And he said to me, that's a bit overkill, isn't it?
20:18
SPEAKER_00: You know, and I was like, Oh no, don't worry, this is gonna scale us to you know 50 units, no problem.
20:22
SPEAKER_00: And actually, it's interesting that first MVP did scale us to 50 units, and then that system in itself became a bottleneck.
20:28
SPEAKER_00: That's why we had to kind of develop our own software to help really solve it, you know.
20:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
20:34
SPEAKER_01: And I mean the other beauty is the people that you have in your team, because I know you know I've spoken to a lot and dealt with a lot of the guys and girls in your in your business, and they are a great team.
20:43
SPEAKER_01: They, you know, they they seem to really enjoy what they're doing.
20:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're always happy to help, they're always, you know, they're they're always there to help and assist everybody as well.
20:52
SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, you know, I know that customer relationships and customer you know satisfaction is the heart and soul of any business that you're you're working on.
21:01
SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, is there a sort of uh a process that you use to get your team?
21:04
SPEAKER_01: Because you you've got some fantastic team members.
21:07
SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, no, thank you.
21:08
SPEAKER_00: It means a lot to me to hear that.
21:10
SPEAKER_00: I think, yeah, you know, ultimately the the people you have in your business, they're representing you, they're representing your brand.
21:15
SPEAKER_00: So you get getting that right, you know, is somewhat difficult.
21:19
SPEAKER_00: We it's not something we've always got right, but yeah, it's an it's I say it's an art and a science ultimately.
21:26
SPEAKER_00: But I mean, something I've really lent into in in more recent years is is digging into people's personality types because everyone's got their kind of yeah, they they fall into certain categories, and then certain roles within the business are better with particular personality type.
21:43
SPEAKER_00: I think in poverty a lot of people do wealth dynamics, and that's that is a simpler thing.
21:48
SPEAKER_00: But and then there's the genius you, which is the more basic version.
21:51
SPEAKER_00: We had a guy who was helping us in in HR, and he he was a real like he he really understood the science behind it all.
21:58
SPEAKER_00: Ultimately, it comes all comes from Carl Jung, but understand when you're interviewing and knowing like well, this world like is more of a management thing and there is a lot going on, so we want that personality type.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: This one's more of a sales role.
22:12
SPEAKER_00: Actually, we need a diff a very different personality type.
22:15
SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, get so getting the right person for the right job and then leaning to into people's strengths.
22:21
SPEAKER_00: Um I'm I really don't think it's you know very fruitful trying to get people that aren't great at spreadsheets to like really knuckle down and get good at spreadsheets.
22:30
SPEAKER_00: It's like, you know, if they're if their skill set is speaking to people and being out there and and networking, then just get them doing more of that and have bring in support around them to fill in the details that might be missing, you know.
22:43
SPEAKER_00: So so that's something that I've been a big fan of.
22:45
SPEAKER_00: And ultimately, I I say to my team all the time, look, I'm not your manager, I don't really enjoy being a manager, I don't want to be a manager.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: They've got everyone's got a manager, so ultimately that kind of all the leads all the way up to Emma.
22:59
SPEAKER_00: And Emma's, you know, GM and she's been with me since day one.
23:03
SPEAKER_00: She was one of the first people that joined Prim.
23:06
SPEAKER_00: And and back then, she, you know, she'd work had a great career in the city and then decided to kind of go be a mum and and and didn't really want to go back to the city, wanted to do remote work.
23:16
SPEAKER_00: And so when I was introduced to her, she was just looking for a few hours a week.
23:20
SPEAKER_00: So it's just perfect, you know, like she she could just slowly build up into having a new career at home.
23:26
SPEAKER_00: And and so, Prim, you know, I very much regard Emma as as being a founder, really, and you know, it's her baby, and and and it's not my job to just kind of overrule and get involved and and whatnot.
23:37
SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm there to support everyone, so it's not like I don't speak to the other managers, but I'm like more of their coach, you know.
23:42
SPEAKER_00: I I get a lot of value out of coaching people, helping them develop on not just professionally but personally, and you know, I'm I'm I I can just you know level with people.
23:52
SPEAKER_00: I'm not really into the HR side of things.
23:55
SPEAKER_00: It's sometimes a bit funny, but that's me playing to my strengths, you know, instead of becoming the HR, you know, CEO boss of everyone.
24:03
SPEAKER_00: No, it's like I'm the CEO that can, I've got the vision, I know where we're going as a business, and I can help explain that to people in a really cohesive way and get people behind it and they understand what they're pushing for and the importance of of their role.
24:18
SPEAKER_00: And I think sometimes if you're in, for example, like an admin role and you feel like you know you're you've got layers of management above you, maybe what you're doing is not very important, but it absolutely is.
24:29
SPEAKER_00: You know, you might be one of those critical steps in that 76-step workflow.
24:33
SPEAKER_00: And actually, if this isn't being done, like that leads to this other thing, which leads to that other thing, which could be worth tens of thousands a year, you know.
24:41
SPEAKER_00: So every every role that's happening within the business, it has to it is critical to everything else.
24:46
SPEAKER_00: So people need to understand the value they they're bringing to the table and that they are valued, and you know, and also that it is important that they they kind of fulfill their their role in it, you know.
24:55
SPEAKER_00: Good business is a good set of systems, and then a good team to follow those systems.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, I think that's that's ultimately why we've got to the point where we are we're able to deliver on our word, and it is very much thanks to the team.
25:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
25:08
SPEAKER_00: And how are you finding the market at the moment?
25:11
SPEAKER_00: So the market, I mean, it's been it's been an interesting one since COVID.
25:15
SPEAKER_00: I mean, COVID like like the world before COVID was very different.
25:20
SPEAKER_00: It's you know, the weekend rates in Nottingham, for example, were sometimes triple, you'd get on a Saturday night, triple what you'd get in the week.
25:28
SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, I don't think the weekend market really ever came back, you know.
25:32
SPEAKER_00: Of course, weekends are pretty good, but you know, it it's just it's just very different.
25:37
SPEAKER_00: And that's not just a Nottingham thing, that's a that's a UK thing, but potentially a global thing.
25:42
SPEAKER_00: You know, people are just aren't saying like spending as much money and going out and staying away just for the weekend in cities and having city breaks, and city centres are very different as a result.
25:52
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we've lent more into different markets as well as just the city centre apartment market, we've got holiday homes and you know, we've got things all the way through to like big 12-bed country houses.
26:02
SPEAKER_00: So, and then having so having that kind of you know, being able to kind of like have different property types in different cities, city, countryside, everything, that has helped, you know.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: So, yes, it's it is definitely a more difficult market than it was, but we've there there's always a way through, and and and ultimately, yeah, it's just about kind of finding being able to provide a good service to everyone.
26:26
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I think one of the one of the good things about the market is actually the the younger crowds that were maybe teenagers when I started, they're now getting jobs and getting money and going out a lot more and spending money on trips away.
26:42
SPEAKER_00: And they don't even think about booking hotels a lot of the time, you know, it's just Airbnb.
26:46
SPEAKER_00: That's what they just want apartments and want to stay with friends, and you know, so the younger market is is actually now starting to spend more money, and that's where service accommodation really comes into its own.
26:56
SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, it's it's it's a forever-changing market, I would say, you know.
27:01
SPEAKER_01: I think it is, I think it is quite quite exciting as well.
27:04
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, you've got to keep your uh finger on the pulse, haven't you?
27:07
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, you've got a lot on, you know, you've got a lot of businesses, as I say, you've got a young family as well.
27:12
SPEAKER_01: And how do you balance everything?
27:16
SPEAKER_00: So, well, we were chatting a little bit before this, weren't we?
27:18
SPEAKER_00: You know, you can see the bike in the background, keeping fit.
27:21
SPEAKER_00: I think like it's the mate the number one benefit of keeping fit and going to the gym regular is actually for my mental health, more than just being physically strong.
27:31
SPEAKER_00: Like, I think strong body, strong mind.
27:33
SPEAKER_00: And so I feel I really feel it if I've not gone to the gym for a couple of days, then suddenly actually the pressure of everything can start to get on top of me.
27:42
SPEAKER_00: So it's just literally that is my number one life hack is just get to the gym and work very hard, you know, live, lift heavy weights, climb way too many flights on the stairmaster.
27:53
SPEAKER_00: You know, try and climb the the equivalent of the Burj Khalifa at least five times a week.
27:58
SPEAKER_00: It's like, you know, like you can't do that, you can't like have that kind of stress on your body if you like, and then be bothered about you know the you know small things happening.
28:07
SPEAKER_00: It's like and just staying calm, you know.
28:09
SPEAKER_00: We we we had a massive, massive booking to fit in earlier this week, and it and it was a lot of stress because it meant moving a lot of stuff around and yeah, it was just chaotic, but I just was calm, you know.
28:24
SPEAKER_00: It's like things are just much worse and much harder to deal with if if you're stressed and you're kind of anxious and getting you know upset at things.
28:32
SPEAKER_00: So it's just things are just easier if you're calm.
28:35
SPEAKER_00: And so yeah, I've just this year, especially, I've really actually tried to make an effort to just keep a lot more of my diary free and slow down so that I'm still working all the time, but instead of just going from meeting to meeting to meeting to meeting, it's like actually, you know what?
28:50
SPEAKER_00: Like there is a team in place, they know what they need to do.
28:53
SPEAKER_00: If they need me, they I'm more available for them than I was because it's like, oh, let me try and squeeze you in in five days.
28:59
SPEAKER_00: Now it's like let's jump on a call, you know.
29:02
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I've just I've I've just kind of slowed slow slowing down to speed up, if you like, and just the the the impact that has on everything is is much greater.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, there's a lot, there is a lot going on, and I think my personality type being a dynamo, I am quite a creative person.
29:19
SPEAKER_00: I am more the visionary than the integrator that you might need.
29:23
SPEAKER_00: You know, sometimes I don't concern myself too much about the details, and that's a strength and a weakness.
29:29
SPEAKER_00: I think everyone's everyone's strength greatest strengths are the greatest weaknesses, and so the fact that sometimes I don't concern myself too much with the detail and I just like make sure the team have got what they need, you know.
29:38
SPEAKER_00: Here's the outcome we need, this is the detail you need to focus on, you know, let me know if you're stuck.
29:43
SPEAKER_00: That that is that that works really well, you know, rather than me trying to do something that I'm not necessarily as strong at, and that would slow us down and and and I would become the bottleneck then.
29:54
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, making sure you've got the right people around you, they're supported, and you lean on them, you know, like.
30:00
SPEAKER_00: So that that enables then you know us to keep going.
30:04
SPEAKER_00: I've got we we we've we've got another another business overnightly which I've not mentioned, which is you know that that one's really starting to kind of cook with gas, as it were.
30:13
SPEAKER_00: You know, we've um it's been run by Ellie.
30:16
SPEAKER_00: Ellie, someone I met many, many, many years ago.
30:18
SPEAKER_00: She was at the time she was on the same service accommodation coaching as me.
30:22
SPEAKER_00: And she was sent there by her then boss, who was a property developer, but they had a portfolio of service departments up in the uh in the in Cumbria in the north.
30:31
SPEAKER_00: And you know, they just sent Ellie along to to run it.
30:34
SPEAKER_00: And and ultimately, this was a construction company, and later they kind of sold off their service departments, but Ellie stayed on, and mostly in sales and construction.
30:43
SPEAKER_00: So it was an absolute no-brainer when Ellie was suddenly available.
30:47
SPEAKER_00: I was like, right, we've just started overnightly, and you are the perfect person to help run this.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: And a bit like Emma in Prim, you know, she is the GM, she, you know, my job is just to support her.
30:58
SPEAKER_00: It's the same with Ellie and overnightly.
31:00
SPEAKER_00: You know, she's she's she understands construction, she understands sales, and she understands service accommodation.
31:04
SPEAKER_00: And ultimately, overnightly is about selling other people's service apartments uh to groups of construction workers.
31:12
SPEAKER_00: You know, we've just placed a group of 20 for six months across multiple hosts, you know.
31:17
SPEAKER_00: So we're able to negotiate.
31:19
SPEAKER_00: These are obviously really good, juicy bookings.
31:21
SPEAKER_00: The hosts are willing to give us uh reasonable prices, and and you know, the our clients don't want to have to be phoning 50 different hosts to then work with six different hosts, you know, and having invoices here, there and everywhere.
31:33
SPEAKER_00: So I'm just trying to really simplify it, give it a really personal touch on that.
31:37
SPEAKER_00: And and yeah, look, Ellie, Ellie doesn't need more than an hour of my time a week to to run that business.
31:43
SPEAKER_00: And and so, yeah, it I wouldn't be able to do it if it wasn't for the the excellent people got around me.
31:49
SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, my job is just making sure they've got everything they need and get out of their way.
31:52
SPEAKER_00: I actually say to them, like, you need to start thinking of it like I work for you.
31:56
SPEAKER_00: You don't work for me, I work for you.
31:58
SPEAKER_00: You I my job is to tell you what success is, give you a really clear understanding of what that is, you know, almost like here's my expectations.
32:06
SPEAKER_00: And if they're not being met and I haven't communicated it, that's my fault, you know.
32:09
SPEAKER_00: So here's my expectations.
32:10
SPEAKER_00: Are you on board with that?
32:11
SPEAKER_00: Is that possible?
32:12
SPEAKER_00: Have you got what you need to do it?
32:13
SPEAKER_00: And now let's kind of, you know, we'll keep touching base every every week and just make sure we're moving towards that.
32:19
SPEAKER_00: So, so yeah, that's uh that's really how I'm able to have multiple businesses um and and keep keep going and and make sure I've got family time.
32:30
SPEAKER_00: And you know, I I'm pretty good at switching off five, six in the afternoon and just focusing on my family and on there.
32:37
SPEAKER_00: You know, we've just recently had a new baby, so dinner duties on me.
32:40
SPEAKER_00: I really enjoy cooking, actually.
32:42
SPEAKER_00: It's like it's my it's like a a bit of me time, and you know, and also, you know, what's the point in having businesses and trying to strive for you know financial freedom if you're not going to do the things you enjoy?
32:52
SPEAKER_00: You know, I was listening to a podcast the other day, and they were saying, like, if you've got the money, you should just pay for a chef.
32:57
SPEAKER_00: Because in that in that hour it takes to cook to cook food, you could be making more than what it costs to pay for a chef.
33:03
SPEAKER_00: And I'm just thinking, or you you cook it because actually you enjoy cooking and it's a nice thing to do, and it's a bit of downtime, and it's a again, that is something that it's like the antidote gardening as well.
33:14
SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, I like taking weeds out the garden whilst I'm uh in a meeting.
33:18
SPEAKER_00: You know, if I can get away with not being on the camera, I'll be having my airpods on and I'll just be picking picking weeds out of the garden, it's quite therapeutic, but it's the antidote to all of the stress and everything that's going on with whilst you're building an empire, you know.
33:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
33:34
SPEAKER_01: No, it's good.
33:35
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's uh I think that's good.
33:37
SPEAKER_01: I mean, leave from the back, so to speak, it's put your best players out front and just be there to support them.
33:43
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm very much the same.
33:44
SPEAKER_01: If I'm out of the way, things work.
33:46
SPEAKER_01: When I meddle, things start to uh come a little unstuck and things.
33:49
SPEAKER_01: And I uh because I am a meddler.
33:51
SPEAKER_01: I I know and I know that's one of my flaws, actually.
33:54
SPEAKER_01: And actually, from my from my own business, property business, COVID did me a favor because it stopped me being as active or reactive, should I say, as I am.
34:04
SPEAKER_01: So as soon as there's a problem, I'm sort of like jackets on, trainers are on, I'm going out, I'm at the door.
34:09
SPEAKER_01: Rather than step back, think about it, Mark.
34:11
SPEAKER_01: You might not even need to be in the vicinity of that problem.
34:15
SPEAKER_01: It might not even need you there.
34:16
SPEAKER_01: It, you know, some other people might be able to go and sort this out.
34:19
SPEAKER_01: So it really helped me because in my corporate life, uh, you know, when when I lived that I would that's how I was.
34:25
SPEAKER_01: I would have stepped back, I would have thought, right, who didn't who do we need to solve this problem?
34:29
SPEAKER_01: How are we going to do?
34:30
SPEAKER_01: But it was just funny when it was my own business, that all went out the window.
34:34
SPEAKER_01: And it was just like, I'm here with the fire extinguisher.
34:37
SPEAKER_01: Where do I point it?
34:38
SPEAKER_01: Where do I square it?
34:39
SPEAKER_01: And and it didn't even need to happen like that.
34:41
SPEAKER_01: So I think the fact that you've done this at scale as well is really impressive.
34:45
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think, you know, like I'm a big believer in everything for a reason, you know.
34:49
SPEAKER_00: I just I think like every, yeah, I genuinely believe that I was supposed to have that time of attempting to be a forex trader, you know.
34:58
SPEAKER_00: Yes, it wasn't for me, but I learned some really valuable skills.
35:01
SPEAKER_00: And I'm so glad I got into business.
35:04
SPEAKER_00: I I know some traders that have stuck the course, they've been around doing it for 10 years and they're making a lot of money, a lot more than me.
35:10
SPEAKER_00: And part of me thinks, oh, if I'd have stuck with it, maybe I'd be wealthier, but possibly not.
35:16
SPEAKER_00: There's plenty of people that have to tap out along the way.
35:18
SPEAKER_00: And also, I think these guys don't actually have any real-world skills.
35:23
SPEAKER_00: You know, they that's all they know is to how to trade the markets.
35:25
SPEAKER_00: And like I say, it's it's a very lonely game, and a lot of people just definitely get fatigued by it and they don't want to do it forever.
35:32
SPEAKER_00: So I'm really glad I got into business and I learned the skills of building a team, building processes and a system.
35:38
SPEAKER_00: But the thing I learned from that is the separation of decision making from emotions.
35:43
SPEAKER_00: Like I said earlier this week when it was a bit stressful, it's like there's no point getting emotional.
35:47
SPEAKER_00: It's like, listen, we just need to prioritize, make decisions, what's in our control, what's not in our control, what do we need to do first?
35:53
SPEAKER_00: And it's just decision making.
35:54
SPEAKER_00: And actually, if you let emotions, we're all emotional beings, of course, but if we let emotions come in on top of that, it just gets a lot, a lot harder.
36:02
SPEAKER_00: And so I'm really glad I had that spell of becoming or attempting to become a professional trader because it because yeah, that is that is it.
36:09
SPEAKER_00: If if you are always going to care more because it's your brand, it's your business, it's your livelihood, it's everything.
36:15
SPEAKER_00: And so the tendency to want to take control and just let me do it is really strong.
36:20
SPEAKER_00: But that is your emotion, that's your anxiety and your emotions coming in, going, well, actually, no, like if you know, we we need to do this professionally, we need to just, you know, do it do it the right way.
36:31
SPEAKER_00: And even if that means then people need to learn to do that, and you know, with your support, it doesn't come naturally, of course.
36:39
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's that in itself is a is a skill that needs to be developed as a business owner, you know.
36:44
SPEAKER_01: Well, I think we're always learning, aren't we?
36:46
SPEAKER_01: We're always learning.
36:46
SPEAKER_01: So what what's your sort of what's the future holding for you?
36:49
SPEAKER_01: What are what are your sort of goals at the moment?
36:52
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, we are that's a good question.
36:55
SPEAKER_00: I I'm trying to not start any more businesses.
36:58
SPEAKER_00: I think I've got enough going on.
36:59
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, maybe some consolidation and just yeah, we are we are trying to streamline everything.
37:08
SPEAKER_00: I I'm just really enjoying having this kind of slower pace and every day working, but not not being filled with meetings.
37:16
SPEAKER_00: And you know, for me, it that's just really working for me.
37:19
SPEAKER_00: I'm like 42 now, I've got no intention of retiring.
37:22
SPEAKER_00: I genuinely wonder what people do when they're retired.
37:25
SPEAKER_00: It's like I think I want to I want to work, I want to be a provider, and so yeah, it's just a matter of kind of working out where I can add the most value and and keep growing, you know.
37:37
SPEAKER_00: Growth is growth is essential, I think.
37:39
SPEAKER_00: And if you're not growing, you're you're dying in business.
37:42
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, keep doing that.
37:43
SPEAKER_00: And and the the best way I found to grow is through collaboration and working with people, you know, so and supporting others.
37:51
SPEAKER_00: I I really I I've I've coached a few other business owners the last couple of years and brought them through to like massive success.
37:59
SPEAKER_00: And that makes me genuinely feel good, you know.
38:02
SPEAKER_00: I I get a lot of uh fulfillment from that.
38:05
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I think I'd like to do more of that.
38:07
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, you know, I've got I've got the experience now.
38:11
SPEAKER_00: I've been doing this nearly 10 years, so helping people, whether they're just getting going or they've got they're in that stage where I was pre-COVID, where it's like, right, I've grown it and it's like quite big and it's very chaotic, and I need to get it into a sense of order where you you can have a team that's doing everything and probably doing a better job than you would, and you know, ultimately being able to free up your diary.
38:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, I mean that's it, that's certain.
38:37
SPEAKER_01: Of course, you know, we've got the ultimate SA business builder, so to speak, training program that you know you put together, which takes people through, you know, how to build, systemize a service accommodation business.
38:49
SPEAKER_01: And we've had some great successes with that as well, haven't we?
38:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
38:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think we've got at least 20 businesses now like doing really well.
38:57
SPEAKER_00: One of them now is uh is bigger than bigger than my business, you know, and they've done that in what two and a half years.
39:03
SPEAKER_00: Um yes, they've done it through uh acquisition, but you know, and I can't I can't claim credit for all of it, you know, they're hardworking people.
39:10
SPEAKER_00: But what what's fascinating to me is, you know, and it's not even just necessarily people I've worked with directly, but other people that I see that are successful, you know, it's it's not about intelligence, it's not about having money at the start, it's not about having the right connections, uh, it's not about being born into the right family.
39:28
SPEAKER_00: It literally is a matter of taking action, you know.
39:32
SPEAKER_00: It's the people that listen to someone that's ahead of them and then take action, they get results, you know.
39:40
SPEAKER_00: And so it's a really nice reminder to myself if I want to keep growing, I've got to be quite clear on what where I'm going, you know.
39:47
SPEAKER_00: And I I have actually next to me got a vision board.
39:50
SPEAKER_00: I created it on Canva and I've had it professionally printed from a poster maker.
39:54
SPEAKER_00: So it's a huge poster right next to me, and it's broken down into what are my professional, my personal, and my financial goals over the next three years.
40:02
SPEAKER_00: And I know that's why I'm every day I'm working because those things haven't been achieved.
40:06
SPEAKER_00: And when I do achieve them, I'm not going to be then white, let's retire.
40:10
SPEAKER_00: No, it's like, what's the next three years?
40:12
SPEAKER_00: Keep pushing, keep pushing, you know.
40:14
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, but taking action is essential.
40:17
SPEAKER_01: I think success brings success in the sense of your small wins.
40:21
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't have to be massive success, but if you've got small wins and you stay the course, all of a sudden the smaller wins start to, I don't know, spiral into bigger successes as you go forward.
40:30
SPEAKER_01: And it's a bit like when you talked about retirement as well.
40:33
SPEAKER_01: You know, I I have no plans, I don't ever want to retire.
40:36
SPEAKER_01: I want to keep doing the things that I really, really enjoy doing.
40:38
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, there's always problems, but at the end of the day, that's where we go and find the solutions.
40:42
SPEAKER_01: And most problems, you know, if you look at it in the right manner, they're not car crashes, you know, they're not life-ending, they're just things that and and um problems that we have to get through.
40:52
SPEAKER_01: So I love that because I think that if you've got that mindset that I'm gonna make a few bob and I'm gonna retire, and those are the people that never ever seem to get there, do they?
41:01
SPEAKER_01: And I always think it's because at the end of the day, that they're they're short-sighted in what they're doing.
41:07
SPEAKER_01: Now, what's right for some other people is great, but for me, it's a rich life is about being happy, being surrounded by the right people that you enjoy to be around that don't drain you.
41:18
SPEAKER_01: It's going, I like I enjoy cooking, I'm not very good at it, but I don't mind doing it.
41:22
SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I mean?
41:23
SPEAKER_01: Oh no, I'm I'm brilliant, mate.
41:24
SPEAKER_00: I'll have to knock you off the meal when you're over.
41:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, you'll have to.
41:27
SPEAKER_00: You'll have to show me how it's done.
41:28
SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
41:29
SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of people think about like the dream is just I just want to retire, but it's because they're in jobs and careers that they don't enjoy, they're not fulfilled by it, right?
41:37
SPEAKER_00: So it's just like, please, I just want this to end as soon as possible.
41:39
SPEAKER_00: But ultimately, to enjoy retirement, to enjoy space in your life, you need a good income.
41:44
SPEAKER_00: You need, you know, and and even just having a big bank balance, even that would be somewhat anxiety-inducing if you're not producing a cash flow from it.
41:52
SPEAKER_00: You know, if you're just whittling away balance and it's getting lower and you're just thinking, right, is this gonna last until I die?
41:57
SPEAKER_00: And what am I gonna have left to pass on to my family?
42:00
SPEAKER_00: I don't even think that's necessarily a great place to be.
42:03
SPEAKER_00: So for like, and also people that have achieved it, maybe it's a dream that they created 10 years prior and they've not realigned what they're pushing for.
42:11
SPEAKER_00: Like I say, I've only gone three years ahead.
42:13
SPEAKER_00: I've got a rough idea what things are gonna look like for me, God willing, in 10, 20 years.
42:19
SPEAKER_00: But it I've gone really detailed on the next three with the intention of then redoing that every single year and re and recalibrating.
42:26
SPEAKER_00: And it might be that I intend to have a year out, possibly, just enjoy a young family, but it won't be like right now, I'm never working again.
42:35
SPEAKER_00: I just I can't I can't see that for me.
42:37
SPEAKER_00: So that that constant recalibration of like, am I, am I, I know, I know that's what I was wanting to do, and I've achieved that, but now what do I want to do?
42:46
SPEAKER_00: Instead of I've finally done this thing that I wanted to do 10 years ago, but actually I'm not I'm just a miserable person now, but quite unhappy.
42:52
SPEAKER_00: It's because you haven't like like course corrected along the way.
42:55
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, life life comes at you, the world changes, and you you know, we change as individuals, and I think that's why it's essential to keep like recalibrating what actually is it I want to achieve, you know, what what where do I where am I going?
43:08
SPEAKER_00: Is this right?
43:08
SPEAKER_00: Is it working?
43:09
SPEAKER_00: Is it not?
43:10
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, that that for me is is essential to kind of having a meaningful life and to feel fulfilled, you know.
43:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
43:18
SPEAKER_01: No, I like it, I like it.
43:19
SPEAKER_01: And our last one realistically is any advice, you know, people that are starting out and everything, you know, we're uh we're a bit further down down the journey at the moment, but yeah, people can obviously see that it can be difficult out there, it can be challenging out there, and of course you've got to chip away at things, haven't you?
43:35
SPEAKER_01: So, what would you sort of say to people that are are getting started, or maybe got started, but uh just trying to find their feet?
43:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
43:42
SPEAKER_00: So I've I've got a few things to say about that.
43:45
SPEAKER_00: I think, first of all, yeah, you don't wait for the planets to align, you know, don't try and get all your docs in the road before you then take action because you just it's never gonna happen.
43:54
SPEAKER_00: What they say is you know, perfection is the enemy of progress.
43:57
SPEAKER_00: So if you're trying to wait for the perfect time and wait for everything to be right and wait, it just isn't gonna work.
44:02
SPEAKER_00: You know, it doesn't matter what business it is or or what you're gonna try and do, there will be challenges, right?
44:08
SPEAKER_00: In fact, I I there's another thing I learned from trading actually is the importance of NLP, how we talk to ourselves.
44:14
SPEAKER_00: I don't even like to say the word problem.
44:16
SPEAKER_00: A problem is a brick wall that stops you moving forward.
44:18
SPEAKER_00: The challenge is a hurdle that you've got to get over.
44:20
SPEAKER_00: And actually, we've got challenges in our business.
44:22
SPEAKER_00: Of course, we had challenges very early on.
44:24
SPEAKER_00: And the thing is with challenges, is as you come overcome them, it's not like they stop happening, it's just they're no longer challenges.
44:31
SPEAKER_00: You just work out a way of dealing with that, and your your prize for solving challenges is bigger challenges, but that's what growth is.
44:37
SPEAKER_00: So almost welcome challenges.
44:40
SPEAKER_00: And it I think I know what it's like because I was an employee for a long time, and you think of a business and an opportunity, and then you see a problem with that, and then you go, Well, oh yeah, no, that ain't isn't going to work because of this problem.
44:53
SPEAKER_00: And um, I remember speaking to a load of graduates that just come out of business school, and I at the time I had a really good business idea, and I know I knew it was a solid idea, I like categorically just knew this would have worked.
45:03
SPEAKER_00: And I spoke to them about this, and they were like, Well, here's all the problems problem, problem, problem, problem, problem.
45:07
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, you know, they just had no intention of ever, I don't, I don't think, ever really starting a business.
45:13
SPEAKER_00: And and you can't really have that mindset.
45:15
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, what they say is to get into business, you need to learn to say yes, and just to stay in business, you need to learn to say no.
45:22
SPEAKER_00: Like, you start seeing solutions everywhere and go, right, I want to do that and everything.
45:25
SPEAKER_00: And you see opportunities everywhere.
45:27
SPEAKER_00: But in the early days, it's very, very, very difficult to see opportunities and to see is this gonna work.
45:33
SPEAKER_00: And and also, I think when I before I got into business, I was trying to find something that's truly unique, like reinvent the wheel almost, and just if I found someone else doing it, it's like, right, there's already someone doing that, there's competition, I can't do it.
45:45
SPEAKER_00: Whereas actually now it's like I've got the opposite.
45:48
SPEAKER_00: I'm just thinking, like, there is competition, can we do better?
45:51
SPEAKER_00: You know, what are they, you know, that there's clearly a market because of people doing it.
45:55
SPEAKER_00: What are they doing well?
45:56
SPEAKER_00: What are they not doing well?
45:57
SPEAKER_00: You know, what would we do better?
45:59
SPEAKER_00: How would we carve out our niche and our brand within that?
46:02
SPEAKER_00: So, so yeah, if you're just looking to get going, then you just just just do it, start doing it, and like I say, compound effect, even when you don't feel like it, just five minutes on a YouTube video learning, find a podcast, find a mentor, like find people that are in the space, whether you're learning directly from them or vicariously just through their content.
46:20
SPEAKER_00: You know, there is always something you can do, reading a book, like seeing what software there is, you know, just getting involved.
46:26
SPEAKER_00: Now there's AI that can help, you know, teach you about things as well.
46:30
SPEAKER_00: There is always something that you can do.
46:32
SPEAKER_00: So just keep moving it forwards no matter how you feel, and you will, and just start getting used to seeing opportunities because even that in in the early days is a challenge.
46:42
SPEAKER_00: Once you once you've got going, I would say actually, I think one of the biggest game changers for us and for me was just start thinking bigger.
46:50
SPEAKER_00: I think there's a book, The Magic of Thinking Big.
46:53
SPEAKER_00: And you know, I'd only I'd only just I think I'd only just quit my job, and we were at like 12 units, and suddenly I bumped into the biggest developer in Nottingham.
47:04
SPEAKER_00: In fact, one of the biggest property developers in the Midlands, uh, full stop.
47:08
SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, so it was a family-run company, and I bumped in, someone said, Oh, that's so-and-so from where so-and-so.
47:14
SPEAKER_00: I was like, I just went went and introduced myself, and they were doing this big scheme in Nottingham, 45 units.
47:21
SPEAKER_00: And I I just said, Look, come and have a look at what I've got some service apartments around the corner.
47:27
SPEAKER_00: Come and have a look at what I'm doing.
47:28
SPEAKER_00: I'm really interested in working with you, you know.
47:30
SPEAKER_00: And they they were just like, Who are you?
47:33
SPEAKER_00: Like, but you know, they gave me the time of day, fair play to them, and they uh they they were just trying to sell the units, they like they didn't want to keep them and have me manage them for them.
47:43
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, why like why would that why would they work with me?
47:47
SPEAKER_00: And I think I just the the importance of thinking bigger and solving pop problems for people, their problem was they wanted to sell them.
47:54
SPEAKER_00: Their problem wasn't they wanted to cash flow and keep some units and be subject to all of the seasonality risk.
48:00
SPEAKER_00: So magic of thinking bigger is just like, well, okay, let me, I've got people that are interested in units.
48:06
SPEAKER_00: I said to them, how about you let me take a floor and I'll sell it for you to clients that I'll then manage for, right?
48:12
SPEAKER_00: So solving the problem for me and my business that we want more units under management, we want a nice city centre new stock like this, solving the problem for people that want solid investments and they're looking for a good opportunity, and solving the problem for them.
48:26
SPEAKER_00: And you know what?
48:27
SPEAKER_00: It was initially, it was a I had a few time wasters and a few people kicking tires, and again, start thinking bigger, right?
48:33
SPEAKER_00: Who's already dealing with big blocks and big investors?
48:36
SPEAKER_00: And you know what?
48:36
SPEAKER_00: We actually got an offer on the table.
48:38
SPEAKER_00: These guys gave me exclusivity before Savils and the other another massive agent in Nottingham.
48:44
SPEAKER_00: They were like, Who's this guy?
48:46
SPEAKER_00: You know, like Mr.
48:47
SPEAKER_00: Nobody, Graham Lindley, who's Graham Lindley?
48:49
SPEAKER_00: Like, why have you given him exclusivity before us?
48:52
SPEAKER_00: And they said, he's only got a month or six weeks to get non-refundable deposits and a solid offer for these units.
48:58
SPEAKER_00: They just gave me a phase three, by the way, because it had a dedicated entrance, it was 11 units.
49:02
SPEAKER_00: They said, right, you can have phase three, they're all two beds.
49:05
SPEAKER_00: If you sell them, great.
49:07
SPEAKER_00: And I don't, I think they thought he's not gonna do it.
49:09
SPEAKER_00: And I actually did it.
49:10
SPEAKER_00: I got I ended up getting an offer for the whole lot on the table with them.
49:14
SPEAKER_00: And and so that's that is just through the PAL thinking big, right?
49:19
SPEAKER_00: And what is the next level?
49:21
SPEAKER_00: You know, we're we're we've got another business on the side where we get we get approached all the time by investors and by other people that have got opportunities, and it's just like, well, it makes sense to start connecting them, but the amount of work it takes for let's say sourcing a two up, two down in the northwest of England is a is the same as sourcing superprime in London, you know, but the fees are very different.
49:44
SPEAKER_00: The amount of work's the same, so just think bigger, you know.
49:47
SPEAKER_00: And I think once you understand how to communicate properly with people, work with clients, show up on time, have a professional brand, have a good reputation, then actually, what is the bigger thing you can be doing for with your time where actually you can get paid a lot more money for doing very similar work?
50:03
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, that is my advice to people that have got going and really want to kind of take things to the next level.
50:09
SPEAKER_01: Amazing, amazing advice.
50:10
SPEAKER_01: That was better than I was expecting.
50:12
SPEAKER_01: And it's great to have you as part of ETA as well, where you're doing a session now.
50:15
SPEAKER_01: We obviously have Emily from Prim as well, who comes on and actually looks for deals and stacks deals with our community members.
50:21
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, we're really out there, we're helping people, we're helping property investors or inspiring property investors to be able to get out there and to be able to start building their businesses.
50:30
SPEAKER_01: And of course, as I said before, we have the ultimate essay, which is really your blueprint to follow to start building a successful business.
50:38
SPEAKER_01: So if you're interested in anything like that, I will put all the links in the show notes.
50:42
SPEAKER_01: Plus, I'll also put the links in the description and in the show notes for your businesses as well.
50:48
SPEAKER_01: So if anybody wants to reach out to your companies and you can help them in any way, then I'm sure you will.
50:52
SPEAKER_01: Any final thoughts, my friend?
50:54
SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
50:54
SPEAKER_00: No, it's uh it's been a pleasure.
50:56
SPEAKER_00: It's been good to chat.
50:57
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, it's it's always good to kind of meet with community members and you know, just help solve people's problems, you know.
51:04
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's it.
51:05
SPEAKER_01: That's it.
51:05
SPEAKER_01: And I also love the way that you look at people's listings and you give them tweaks and you give them ideas and you help them out.
51:11
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes we've even had some of our uh students, should we say, have brought a listing to you and you couldn't even find it, could you?
51:17
SPEAKER_01: Because they hadn't set it up properly.
51:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about.
51:20
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
51:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we we not only tweaked the listings, but then gave this person, I think at the time she had four units, and we said, look, try this and do that.
51:28
SPEAKER_00: And then she was so overwhelmed with bookings that actually she started working with her local competitors and to the point where they gave her more properties.
51:38
SPEAKER_00: And I think she went from four units to 12 units within the next three to four months, just from us spending 20 minutes looking at how she was putting the listings together and what she was doing to get booking.
51:47
SPEAKER_00: So sometimes it doesn't even take a huge amount to make a massive difference.
51:52
SPEAKER_01: No, that's it, that's it.
51:53
SPEAKER_01: So thank you very much for your time, my friend.
51:56
SPEAKER_01: Always an absolute pleasure there.
51:57
SPEAKER_01: And again, it's all about surrounding yourself with the right people that can help and support you.
52:02
SPEAKER_01: So, no, it's been great to have you on, and I look forward to seeing you again soon.
52:05
SPEAKER_01: My pleasure.
52:06
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely nice one, Mark.
52:07
SPEAKER_01: Good to see you.
52:08
SPEAKER_01: And you, my friend, take care.
52:10
SPEAKER_01: Bye for now.
52:11
SPEAKER_01: So I'm sure we'll all agree that that's been a fantastic session.
52:15
SPEAKER_01: If you're interested in service accommodation, then please do check out the ultimate SA, a business builder.
52:21
SPEAKER_01: It is our complete blueprint that takes you from complete novice and will show you in steps, stages, and blueprints exactly how to build yourself a successful service accommodation business with our coaching support.
52:36
SPEAKER_01: And of course, I have my property investing community, education to action, where again, we can help you not only find deals, fund deals, run the numbers, set your deals up and give you ongoing support, all at the snippet of an investment each and every month.
52:53
SPEAKER_01: We keep things very, very cost effective because we believe that you should be spending your money on property investing rather than training and education.
53:03
SPEAKER_01: And we're on a mission here to help and support as many people with that as possible.
53:08
SPEAKER_01: So please do check us out.
53:09
SPEAKER_01: And of course, if you have any questions or any feedback or you just need a bit of help and support, feel free to reach out to me at markfitzgerald at markfitzgerald.com.
53:20
SPEAKER_01: And I'm more than happy to have a little chat with you and see if I can help point you in the right direction.
53:24
SPEAKER_01: I hope you've enjoyed this episode.
53:26
SPEAKER_01: I always enjoy bringing you these episodes, and I look forward to you joining me in the next episode very soon.
53:31
SPEAKER_01: Take care and bye for now.