Latest / Veramed Stories / Season 2 Episode 005 - Neurodiversity At Veramed: Different Minds, Shared Success

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Season 2 Episode 005 - Neurodiversity At Veramed: Different Minds, Shared Success · Veramed Stories

• 0:00
  Speaker 0: Hi, this is Lacey Walsh.
• 0:01
  Speaker 0: Welcome back to the podcast!
• 0:03
  Speaker 0: Today we're having a roundtable conversation with our new leaders and their neurodiversity team here at VeraMed focused on the neurodivergent experience in work place.
• 0:12
  Speaker 0: before we dive into it I'd like to share something personal.
• 0:15
  Speaker 0: if you've ever noticed a typo or one of my emails are messages.
• 0:18
  Speaker 0: there's reason for that.
• 0:19
  Speaker 0: i'm Dixlexia and have been learning to live with Dixxlexia since the first grade.
• 0:23
  Speaker 0: My father is also Dixlexic and he helped me recognize what I now see as one of our strengths, persistence resilience.
• 0:31
  Speaker 0: And a visual way of thinking that shows up in both art and science especially in pattern recognition.
• 0:37
  Speaker 0: i was also incredibly fortunate to have mainstream education with an individualized education plan and IEP which we'll refer to during this podcast a couple times.
• 0:47
  Speaker 0: Thanks my mom, who was an early Dixlexia and autism advocate in Connecticut in the nineteen eighties.
• 0:53
  Speaker 0: she not only fought for My Right To Learn but later did The Same For My Brother Bill Who Is On The Autism Spectrum.
• 1:00
  Speaker 0: because of that support I didn't just learn how to manage Dixxlexia.
• 1:04
  Speaker 0: i learned How To Thrive With Dixlexic Thinking something Richard Branson often describes as A Superpower That lived with.
• 1:11
  Speaker 0: experience is why today's conversation means so much to me and why I'm excited to explore how we can continue to build a workplace where different ways of thinking can thrive.
• 1:21
  Speaker 0: Today, i'm joined by Susie & Sean from Varemeds Neurodiversity Team And let's slide into the introductions!
• 1:28
  Speaker 0: Before we get in today's discussion...I'd love to hear each of you introduce yourselves and tell us a little about what you bring.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Thanks Lacey.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: So I'm Susie, I am a senior statistician one and i've been working at Vera Med since I graduated uni in twenty-twenty two.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: .I was actually diagnosed with autism quite early on.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: ,i was only six years old And it was because of my mum's job.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: so um she was teaching at my primary school.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: She was a teaching assistant but she had to do some trainings On special education needs and she learned about autism ADHD and dyslexia.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: It was actually quite interesting because when I asked her about it she said, She didn't learn about any others.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: so...she'd never heard of dyspraxia even when i talked to her a while ago.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: But yeah!
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: So she had to do send training and looked up different autistic symptoms & behaviours And she realised quite quickly that I fit alot of them.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: For example..I find it difficult make friends.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: I did not always say the right thing.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: I found it difficult mix with other kids But it like, it wasn't all bad.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: So she also noticed the other things Like how I was really good at maths How i could usually find patterns others couldn't and so She thought It would be really useful if I got a diagnosis?
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: So she went to the GP who then referred me To her specialist And Then I Was diagnosed.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: um...I know that A lot of people Who were diagnosed as an adult wish they Were diagnosed As a kid but for Me its actually The Other way around.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: Um..i found being an autistic child really difficult.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: And like you, I actually had an IEP as well but it didn't suit me and the teachers gave up on that quite quickly too.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: It did not help at all.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: so basically felt stuck with something bad which I couldn't get rid of at all.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: again systems will put in place for just didn't help at all.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: So it wasn't until I became an adult and especially working in veramid that i started embracing my autism, And I felt good about it!
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: It was something that could actually be proud of.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: That's
• 3:38
  Speaker 0: really great!
• 3:38
  Speaker 0: Hey Sean!
• 3:39
  Speaker 0: Alright
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: thanks guys.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: so howdy everybody?
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: So...I'm Sean.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: uh..i am a statistician too.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: um hopefully maybe a senior statistician.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: one fingers crossed by the time this recording goes out but i'm a statisticians two based up in Alderley Park near Manchester, the UK.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: I've also been at Varemed for over three and a half years now.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: like Susie i joined The Grad Scheme back in October of twenty-twenty two um... And Im more likely autistic.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: so although ive never had formal diagnosis but on top of the autism was actually recently diagnosed with ADHD.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: Now it's something that I suspected last few year but I only got the official diagnostic confirmation.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: It's actually about three months ago now, so it's getting on for a while.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: But yeah even though the diagnosis is recent i've still faced struggles which are attributable to my autism and ADHD throughout my entire life.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: Now with ADHD have struggled with time management And getting things started that is unless there's short deadline Which really panics me and kicks into action.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: Think sometimes you need like sort of dopamine response in your brain.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: There have been some social struggles, especially with interpreting others and having them interpret me in the way that I intend as well as struggles with following guidance.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: That are considered vague or nonspecific.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: of course struggling to follow guidance other people give is can be tough on work.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: it could be tough in uni just tough life in general but its not all negative.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: Now, ADHD has helped me hyper-focus under pressure and I believe help me with creative and out of the box thinking at times.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: And autism has likely helped me by being very analytical and detail focused spotting small issues and inconsistencies where most others wouldn't.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: now you can see how that would be helpful in uni... ...in work & stuff just in life!
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: Now i've had a lot support throughout my life which have helped me greatly.. ..and am very thankful for all this support.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: however alot of the supports hasn't really focused on ADHD and autism at all, even though I feel they're fundamental to the way that i act and experience the world.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: In a way...I'm actually a bit of an inverse of Susie where I wish had some diagnosis sooner because it would have made things clearer in my own head about why I see the World the way I do.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: And earlier diagnoses may've helped me receive support which was more specifically targeted.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: my brain works, rather than dealing with sort of things that might be comorbid or doing things on top of the fundamental aspects of my brain which I think ADHD and autism are fundamentals to where my brain work.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: Now right now um...I still feel like i'm figuring out a lot in ways but certainly going through process getting an ADHD diagnosis feels as if it's been huge step for me.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: Um..i may get on medication at some point.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: I've applied for that, so hoping that will help me in future as well.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: But yeah we'll see where things take me.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: but getting that diagnosis has really helped me.
• 6:44
  Speaker 0: Yeah the IEP topic is definitely a hot topic and some scenarios i think.
• 6:50
  Speaker 0: For Susie it sounds like It was kind of holding you back In some respects.
• 6:54
  Speaker 0: maybe didn't give You as much opportunity Sean.
• 6:57
  Speaker 0: Maybe it might have helped Kind of narrowed The focus Of tools or...it could Have helped with Some of the maybe skills about opening doors to, like higher education and being given the opportunity to learn about different science and math without having...to have a spelling count against me.
• 7:17
  Speaker 0: Spell check and so many different tools now that we would've helped get through some of those things.
• 7:22
  Speaker 0: but yeah back then IEP was really helpful for me.
• 7:25
  Speaker 0: Anything specific you felt passionate when joined the neurodiversity
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: team?
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: The first thing to say is Susie wasn't a big advocate in getting into my team.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: So me and her were friends for at least like a year before I joined the neurodiversity group.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: I think i'd join the neuro-diversity maybe.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: uh so early twenty, twenty four And Susie had been in the group for about a year Before that um obviously with little friends.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: Um she knew that I was probably autistic Maybe had ADHD.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: um maybe That's partly why we get along so well.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: but you know brain is Yeah.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: it's
• 7:58
  Speaker 0: like finding community and camaraderie
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: kind of yeah?
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: because I really enjoyed it here.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: And, yeah the main driving factor was probably about finding community.
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: So...I wanted to be around people that i could relate too.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: That-I felt like I can talk to..that understood me at least a little bit and I understood them & I could relate to.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: ..That's what is my driver for joining the roderous group and did find that It has been wonderful being part of this group and actually meet some people who have had the same struggles as me or the same successes or just had similar thought patterns to me.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: So that was a main reason, there are other reasons like trying to spread awareness in neurodiversity and help other people.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: I guess the first and foremost thing is it's a selfish reason which is about helping myself and trying to be around other people that i could relate too.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: so thanks for getting me into group Susie.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: yeah good
• 8:53
  Speaker 0: job Susie.
• 8:54
  Speaker 0: how bout you Susie what were your main goals of joining the neuro diversity team?
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so it was actually... So it was Gwen and Amber who were the original co-founders of The Group.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: And one day I found myself sitting next to Gwen –I hadn't heard Of The Group at this point–and she mentioned that She Was Autistic & That There Was A Neurodiversity Group.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: Almost straight away I said can i join please?
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: It did take a little while, but she was really enthusiastic to have me join and I Really want to thank her for that.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: We are recording this in August But actually tomorrow i'm going to her wedding so it will be amazing To see her again.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: um even though She's already here yeah Even though she's not been here for about three years now.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: like i'm So pleased that she got me into the group And it's really been amazing to have worked with her and just Be able to now do what I do because of her and it's really great co-leading with Sean as well.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: We get on together really well, we've got kind of the same mindset.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: so all our initiatives how you think about how he works... It blows well!
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: And i just feel like its important like Sean to spread awareness, to find other people like me and just feel surrounded by people who really get me.
• 10:11
  Speaker 0: Yeah I love that you guys do the tips too for a general audience about how make your year of life easier with the tools and tech that you know, but we have at our fingertips.
• 10:23
  Speaker 0: they can make things easier like tracks read to you.
• 10:27
  Speaker 0: Like I didn't know that half those things were available The other day when you guys did that learning lab.
• 10:32
  Speaker 0: i was really impressed
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: by it.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: Thanks for the comments about the assistive software stuff.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: So Amber and Rosie both worked very hard on getting all this together.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: They're
• 10:42
  Speaker 0: so good!
• 10:45
  Speaker 0: It's such
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: a good thing.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: they've done great job.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah They do.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: If anybody's listening to this podcast, they did like two learning labs in I don't know April or May time maybe June as well.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: check that out if you're at home head because there were really good useful tips and tricks for just a help with your work.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: so yeah thanks.
• 11:07
  Speaker 0: I think people often are surprised to learn is that neurodivergence doesn't always exist in isolation.
• 11:13
  Speaker 0: Many people experience overlapping conditions or associated health challenges, they can shape their experience and many ways the others may not see.
• 11:22
  Speaker 0: Would you be comfortable sharing a little about your own experience with co-occurring conditions?
• 11:27
  Speaker 0: And whether those experiences affect how you understood yourself sought support for navigated school?
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sure.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: So along with autism another diagnosis I have is alphid.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: so that's avoidant restrictive food intake disorder and when i was a kid my parents thought that was part of the autism?
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: It's essentially chronic picky eating.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: it has affected me all my life really especially when I turned about thirteen years old.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: I'd finally managed to start masking learning different things to help me act more neurotypical, I guess.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: But one thing that I just couldn't shake was this picky eating.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: And because I thought it was part of the autism, I just felt like there were something really wrong with me and I just wondered why if i could help myself With all these other things?
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: Why couldn't I help This?
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: so It made Things very difficult for Me especially when I Was a teenager.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: school was Difficult and Especially School trips Because Like If we had to stay overnight Somewhere There Had To be Dinner and I'd Have to have Something Plain and The Kids Would Look at me and Make Comments nice at all, but it was actually a school trip that made me start thinking about I could have help for when we were in A level.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: We had a psychology school trip to see a hypnotherapist and just learn what they do how they work.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: by this time i'd found the potential name of food near phobia so fear of new foods.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: He talked about how he deals with phobias and I thought, my heart stopped when he talked about it because i thought is there actually someone who will listen to me help make not feel like something massive was wrong?
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: Could suddenly get rid of that.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: So at the end of this session everyone else got their coats because they still felt a bit embarrassed but basically asked if we could help them out.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: so just held on all the way home in my coat pocket.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they were really expensive but I just felt so happy that i had met someone who said They could help me.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: and then when I reached university.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: I spoke to the school...I was having some problems.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: And they put me in touch with The Unotherapist and I told her about my picky eating.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: and she actually Said To Me oh there's another girl Who's joined uni this year?
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: Who's got the same thing as you?
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: and My immediate reaction Was no there isn't because I hadn't ever met someone else like me who had struggled with food that much, but I met her and my friend.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: And we still talk even though we've both graduated four years ago.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: it's just... It was incredible to meet someone else who has the same struggles as me.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: We also talked about difficulties in eating especially other people But is really great for having her to talk too.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: When i joined Veramedd we had kind of grad introduction sessions so different members would have a round table session spin the wheel and they'd answer random questions.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: And it was just lucky for me really that one of the colleagues kept getting food questions, I realised from three words they said also had offered... It's amazing!
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: One question is what your favourite takeaway?
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: They say whatever is plainest.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: That sounds like something I'd say.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: And then instead of saying something they do eat, They said can't eat and that's another thing.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: but i have to say a lot Like...I can't Eat that not..I won't.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: So as soon As the meeting was over I messaged them and I Said look Look this is what it.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: This Is like oh and they said that they had autism as well.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: so It Was just like Meeting A kind Of Colleague Soulmate in terms of Conditions?
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: We still talk as Well and its Just amazing to now have two people talk who really understand me and because I've got them, i feel better in myself.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: And that's great!
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: How
• 15:26
  Speaker 0: about you Sean?
• 15:27
  Speaker 0: Yeah
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: thanks for sharing that Susie That was interesting.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: Obviously as I said before...I have ADHD, diagnosed with that and probably have autism too.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: The coma would be conditions....I actually had treatment for OCD before have it and sort of takes me back to even as a young child, so I can remember maybe around the age of eight or nine developing things that you could call OCD.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: One of the first thing is what i actually remember And just for anybody interested, OCD stands for obsessive compulsive disorder.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: It's usually associated with repeated needing to repeat tasks whether its like repeatedly washing your hands, repeatedly checking in the oven before leaving the house, repeatedly switching light like a certain number of times, very specific numbers.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: That's the kind of thing that OCD is.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: I can remember even at age eight or nine had this specific things where if i turned around one way then...I couldn't turn it back to undo this magical rope in my head.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: Well, like I couldn't overlap my own lines.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: So if i did one spin then i'd have to like spin back the other way.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: well If maybe if i do two spins and i'll just spin back twice The Other Way And there's a lot of other things that i remember
• 16:45
  Speaker 0: Do you Have A Way Of Breaking Out Of It At All?
• 16:47
  Speaker 0: Like.
• 16:47
  Speaker 0: Do You Have Like A Trick To That?
• 16:49
  Speaker 0: Because My Brother Has Something Similar Refuses To Step On Crack Which Drives Me Crazy.
• 16:56
  Speaker 0: Nothings Gonna Happen To You.
• 16:57
  Speaker 0: Step on the crack in the ground.
• 16:59
  Speaker 0: Yeah, it just makes walking a little slower.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: but yeah... I don't know!
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: One thing i will say is that i've got better over time obviously because of the therapy and stuff.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: But i think we also have gotten better over-time naturally?
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: Maybe i'm a bit lazier with this.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: I honestly improved as i got lazier Because when you go to the phone i couldn't bother doing things anymore.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: break me out of it.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: But I remember like, and something that often happens with OCD to trade off OCD is if you don't do this specific action You'll imagine Something bad will happen Like If i dont wash my hands ten times Someone I love Will die.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: It doesn't make any sense.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: Um its completely irrational but your brain sort of tricks you into almost believing Its true That if you DONT DO THAT THING then that bad thing WILL HAPPEN.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: it was more just out of habit, so I suppose getting older...I still have ACD.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: i still do some things that would be characteristic of acd but it has got a lot better over time..i think just time has helped me....it will not help everybody.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: um is useful to get treatment and i did get treatment for it which probably helped me a lot as well.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: I also think that's an important thing too raise because a lot people associate OCD with hand washing or just counting something like negatively affect their mental health as well and you can see that.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: so I think Sean it's really great that you talked about that, because its something people should definitely be
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: aware of.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: Also thanks Susie for raising the point on how this affects you negatively.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: there are two things that affect your negative with OCD.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: one is obviously dark thoughts which can be associated sort of the irrational black thoughts.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: And then, the other one is simply if you constantly engage in for like... If you spend like an hour a day washing your hands or doing the same repetitive tasks, so for some people even more than that.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: That's stressful.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: it takes time out of your day.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: It is stressful in and itself because its tiring.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: Its time consuming but it take a lot of time on.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: today as well Means you have less time to do all this stuff You wanna Do!
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: But it can be really bad.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: There are other People who have much worse OCD Than me And As I said mine has got alot better.
• 19:16
  Speaker 0: Looking back what was there moment when understanding those overlapping experiences changed The way you viewed yourself or your strengths?
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: For me, definitely.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: So when I realized that both my autism and my ARFID didn't have to have both defined me negatively um... And that helped by coming to Veramedd also getting therapy for my ARRFID because people accepted despite these and i just grew so much more confident then willing talk about it such as being on this podcast especially full the ARR FID Because its rarely mentioned Even in eating disorder spaces, I'm actually the middle of writing a memoir about it.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: It's kind of book that wish i'd found when I was teenager.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: just talks life experiences with arford and how can affect every corner like your relationships school work That kinda thing.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: And I feel so lucky at.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: veramedd had an amazing experience working here but doesn't effect me Like always thought I'd have to deal with it at work and so i really do feel lucky here.
• 20:25
  Speaker 0: So do you have anything that you want add in there?
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: Specific patterns of thought, like one of the things is...I kind've mentioned before but im counting all the time on my head Like Im constantly counting!
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: I'm adding up numbers like constantly Um..so I guess sort being aware of like patterns of thoughts like that And everybody thought its a good thing because its tiring.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: but now I'm also like, actually that probably helped me become really good at addition and so it's helped get better maths.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: You thought you were incredible at times tables?
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: You know i could give you such a high question and you'd be able to get it so quickly!
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: If you're giving me now of your stress... We
• 21:04
  Speaker 0: won't put you on the spot Sean not
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: one.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: Thank you, thank You can spend a lot of time thinking like it's all the autistic traits are negative and harmful that then suddenly when I actually think about It realize oh these traits have helped me to be logical help Me to spot patterns What others wouldn't?
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: Which has been hugely helpful obviously with work but also with uni.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: Hi
• 21:27
  Speaker 0: i think you know The culmination Of your career becoming a statistician is proof.
• 21:35
  Speaker 0: it all comes to the right place.
• 21:37
  Speaker 0: let's see.
• 21:37
  Speaker 0: uh okay so i think it's an important point that we've brought up here.
• 21:43
  Speaker 0: And understanding ourselves often happens gradually, our school years can play a huge role in shaping both confidence and the mental health.
• 21:53
  Speaker 0: have your neurodivergent experiences impacted you're mental health at different points of life?
• 21:58
  Speaker 0: So like thinking back to school year's.
• 22:00
  Speaker 0: what were they like and had the biggest positive impact on your journey?
• 22:04
  Speaker 0: maybe it sounds like Susie was making connection with other people dealing with the same issues?
• 22:10
  Speaker 0: Anything else that you can think of off top your head, do want to mention a person or support system
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: maybe.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah definitely so.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: like first all I just wanted say about what it was like being at school.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: because um Like i mentioned I also had an individual education plan
• 22:26
  Speaker 0: but
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: and I don't know if it was Just a product for its time Um About the understanding of autism.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: But it just didn't help me at all.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: my issues were kind of things like hard to make friends and talking to people but the plan they gave me was nothing to do with it.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: so their attitude was mainly oh you're academic, your completely fine.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: And yeah they did try to put me in group lessons with other autistic children But their diagnosis, their spectrum that are completely different.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: So... The lessons weren't at all designed for neurodivergent people, I don't think it was.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: the messages were Don't annoy.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: The other kids.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: don't interrupt the other kid's don't disrupt the other kids.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: Get better at dealing with change and It was never about how can we help you?
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: Um, if felt like it was always.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: Let's try to make you less annoying for the other children.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: So actually didn't feel very individual at all.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I only went to a couple of those group sessions and then even my special education needs teacher said to my mum.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah we don't think she's right here.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: so that was the extent for support i got.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: um but yeah it is so hard to explain when you're a kid like okay?
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: So how can I explain what?
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: I'm six years old having PE on Wednesday instead of Thursday Like It Always Is physically makes me hurt.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: or why should I have to do group work When its really overwhelming?
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: It's just so hard to explain that as a kid.
• 24:04
  Speaker 0: And
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: yeah, when I got older though it was better.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: So When iI got to GCSE I managed to make more friends.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: That became easier at A level and then after Because all the girls who had bullied me They finally left.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: I could be in lessons I wanted But didn't have group work.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah!
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: Just got better at making friends
• 24:30
  Speaker 0: stuck it out so that you could get to that space.
• 24:33
  Speaker 0: I think a lot of people they are like oh, school's not for me and just move away from where the group learning thing throws them off.
• 24:41
  Speaker 0: So its wonderful that you found your way into next level.
• 24:46
  Speaker 0: focus on areas that you liked And take experience.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just...I didn't love the lessons themselves.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: You know when they were tailored to me it's just you know lunch times playtimes or that kind of thing.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: we're more difficult.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: but yeah When i did reach a level suddenly because I had more friends as well I was with people who accommodated Me and I didn't even realize That at the time.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: so suddenly I Was With People Who Didn't Make Me Feel Overwhelmed?
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: Who Didn'T purposefully Put My Crayons In A Different Order Because They Knew It Was Funny And There Would Anoint Me.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: these people, you know my friends would let me have my routines.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: Didn't try to make me have changes and looking back it feels like such small things.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: but now its just... It changed so much!
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: So yeah.. My school didn't really help at all.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: I don't think ..it was ...my friends that did.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: they're the ones who accommodated me And honestly i hope these days individual education plans are a lot kinder to neurodivergent the neurotypical people who don't even have them.
• 25:50
  Speaker 0: How about you, Sean?
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: I mean my neurodivisional experiences have definitely impacted my mental health throughout my life in high school and sort of going beyond that as well.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: there were... There was a lot struggles.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: i think it's very awkward but if actually did had friends im not sure how i managed it.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: But alot at time like in High School because i didn't feel like i fit with alot um and it didn't know how to act.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: natural, you know probably autism right?
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: Um I just couldn't...I just didn't fit in with a lot of people.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: And i-i didn't Know How To Act.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: so I remember a lot at the time was actually really quiet.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: It wasn't..I wasn't quite because I'm inherently quiet or I wanted too!
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: I Just Didn't Know What To Say and I Was Really Paranoid About Being Awkward Or Weird.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: But You Know Or Being Seen As Weird Which Ironically Is Probably Seen as More Weird By The Fact That I Was Barely Speaking.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: but And then that feeds into negative experiences because you end up feeling isolated from people when they don't want to be.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: The anxiety probably didn't get better in a lot of ways, but yeah it's definitely affected my mental health every time and I've been treated for that... That's good though!
• 26:54
  Speaker 0: You found a way navigating the stresses off at all.
• 27:00
  Speaker 0: Hopefully, if the anxiety bothers you now it definitely doesn't come across in our neurodivergence meetings.
• 27:08
  Speaker 0: Yeah, for that positive attitude.
• 27:14
  Speaker 0: So it's great
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: to be bringing
• 27:15
  Speaker 0: you.
• 27:16
  Speaker 0: I had a lot to deal with.
• 27:17
  Speaker 0: um i had the guidance counselor who said That if I couldn't spell basic words but I shouldn't try To go to college.
• 27:26
  Speaker 0: basically she was like i'd Be taking it away that opportunity away from other people.
• 27:30
  Speaker 0: my family really challenged The system.
• 27:32
  Speaker 0: they asked them to re-evaluate me to see whether or not I Was uh whether or Not?
• 27:37
  Speaker 0: I was at such A low level You know what which he had kind of implied that I was at because of my spelling problems.
• 27:44
  Speaker 0: And it turned out, i scored in the college level for most reasoning and thinking processes but when it came to my spelling ,I did score like a you know third grade level.
• 27:57
  Speaker 0: so they confirmed the spelling was terrible but that I shouldn't be held back because I was capable much more than what the program... and was offering to not only learn about plants in the environment, things I was really passionate about at high school.
• 28:13
  Speaker 0: But it gave me an opportunity be part of a organization called FFA which is the Future Farmers Of America Which sounds weird and geeky but had all these neat leadership opportunities.
• 28:25
  Speaker 0: so i was like the treasurer.
• 28:26
  Speaker 0: one year then representing our group on different took part in competitions and it kind of like boosted my capabilities as a, um...like-as the student who had been as a leader which was really good at a young age.
• 28:41
  Speaker 0: So anyways I was happy with my parents' challenges system because they pushed me into another level and got me away from the bullies that i was experiencing.
• 28:50
  Speaker 0: so..
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: I hope guidance counselor felt very embarrassed after seeing your skills!
• 28:56
  Speaker 0: Well I went on to be president.
• 28:59
  Speaker 0: Yeah, I graduated from LIU in two thousand one so you know it was a big achievement for my family and me.
• 29:11
  Speaker 0: It really brought to new places like Kermit the ability help patients which is what i do today.
• 29:18
  Speaker 0: But yeah, so I think like those experiences often stay with us long after education influences.
• 29:26
  Speaker 0: And we have to bring that into how we approach work and relationships in building opportunities.
• 29:31
  Speaker 0: So How did your home life and student journey shape?
• 29:35
  Speaker 0: Your path to vera med?
• 29:36
  Speaker 0: and for near divergent people entering the workforce today What advice would you most want them to hear?
• 29:43
  Speaker 0: um
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: So, yeah like I mentioned before i was diagnosed with autism young so it affected my home life and my schooling quite a lot because i was also aware of everything i was struggling with.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: Things really changed when i did go to uni.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: originally i applied to go to Leeds.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: um i just wanted to go somewhere far away from home but i didn't get the grades.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: so i went to Lancaster instead and honestly that is what's like the perfect choice for me Because It Was Actually Some Students In My Class That Got Me To Apply For Beremade in The First Place.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: at least two of them had already done their interview and got the job, they recommended that it sounded really good.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: So I wasn't actually planning to do any job interviews until summer in my last year but because they were saying how good it sounded i decided just go ahead and do my interview on Easter holidays And yeah...I'm so happy with what we did!
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: I was worried about the interview by then Because I finally, in fourth year because i've found people who have accepted me.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: I was already a bit more confident into going into the workplace.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: it was definitely difficult though you know unis can be.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: um my interviews could be terrifying.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: You know there's so much pressure to get everything right and answer correctly And try and act like your perfect self.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: if I were give advice To People ,I would say don't compare yourself with other people Who appear pick things up instantly that you're finding it difficult to do, because it is okay to remember that neurodivergent people bring different ways of thinking and working.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: And this actually strengthens the workplace not weakens it?
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah thanks Uzi um and Lacey.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: so yeah how did my home life and student journey shape my path to veramid ?
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: So I suppose first thing to say is that i've been pretty decent at maths throughout my entire life ,so that naturally led me to study in maths uh in undergrad at uni.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: now I actually went to Lancaster, like Susie.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: Although we weren't in the same year because although we started for a minute at some time as Actually In The Year Above Her so i didn't know Susie At Lancaster.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: but yes Lancaster was kind of my first choice.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: My First Choice technically Was Cambridge But I Didn'T Get Into There Didn'T Even get Close To Getting into there After...I did do interviews there They Didn'T Go Great.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: So after that my..my First Choice Was...was Lancaster University.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah!
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: I Did Maths Undergrad There And That Naturally Led Me Into doing statistics at postgrad, it was vital to the world around us.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: So I think really good for career opportunity.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: so obviously something that i was sort of naturally inclined towards based on what.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: So you had the statistics, post-grads and that fact post-grad largely have medical statistics in it.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: And so that really opened my eyes up to where statistics can be applied?
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: And arguably most important place is a medical statistic led me down the path of coming into VeraMed.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: ultimately I remember VeraMed actually did talk at around December time during my post grads for they were already great to apply for Veramed.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: I didn't actually end up getting in because i missed the first application deadline, so joining like sort of October of twenty-twenty one but ended up applying later and getting into the october twenty two cohort.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: So that's a little bit my path to vermed.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: here at vermed being nearly four years What would say as advice?
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: To neurodivergent people entering the workforce today Joining any company especially if it's your first job or, you know... It is a completely new world to come out of university.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: Its tough and for awhile might feel like you don't fit in And maybe sometimes struggle with the work because certain things.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: I think that first thing to say is Don't beat yourself up!
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: its natural..its a completely NEW THING TO YOU.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: You shouldn'nt necessarily expect yourself to be working the same way as everyone else Feel as comfortable and it's confident as socialists, everybody else joining.
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: For a lot of people that is big change.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: so I'd say don't beat yourself up if you feel like your struggling.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: obviously look for support or help but Don't beat yourselves up.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: think its all your own fault Or useless because thats often not true.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: The
• 33:54
  Speaker 0: big take away i find when im listening to you and Susie both being persistent.
• 34:02
  Speaker 0: If you miss the first deadline do it again.
• 34:04
  Speaker 0: You're so lucky that you were persistent and then you did It, you applied for the next round when he missed a deadline And also utilizing your utilizing The connections that you have like the people That can put your foot in the door.
• 34:21
  Speaker 0: He said Susie somebody encouraged you to
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah
• 34:25
  Speaker 0: Connection right?
• 34:26
  Speaker 0: So wasn't like uh Like an AI bot like suggesting something to you, it's a real person.
• 34:31
  Speaker 0: Yeah
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: and while Sean was talking there I remembered exactly how i specifically got onto medical stats because i knew i wanted to be a statistician at fourteen.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: um we actually had our first stats lesson and i immediately thought i love this ,i want to do it!
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: And i know that is very rare for people who are still teenagers not sure what they wanted to do.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: yeah and at the time The only time I'd seen statistics was like football ones on TV, and i thought oh god is this what im gonna have to do?
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: If I do!
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: I will.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: And then it was actually Covid that made me think about medical stats because they were doing the daily briefings They're coming up with a statistics...and got really into looking at the World Ometer website which had all of those stats every day about their characteristics stats of medicine and who had been vaccinated, that kind of thing.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: So by the time I heard about VERAMEDD i already wanted to work in medical stats so it came along at a perfect moment.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: yeah just kind of... It was just kinda perfect realising that could walk straight into something but I was passionate about wanting.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: do
• 35:40
  Speaker 0: Let's shift away from the individual experiences to the workplace itself.
• 35:44
  Speaker 0: Many organizations are genuinely trying quite the same thing.
• 35:53
  Speaker 0: Where can VeraMed improve?
• 35:55
  Speaker 0: Could you pick just two things, what are the biggest opportunities for VeraMed to better support neurodivergent colleagues in day-to-day work and career
• 36:05
  Speaker 0: development?".
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: So it's interesting because Sean and I are currently working on a neurodiversity training for line managers and leads which talks about this entire thing.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: very much doing amazingly but there is always more I'd say.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: one important thing after learning about neurodiversity is recognising that adjustments for neurodivergent people aren't one size fits all.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: So it's important to ask the specifics because, you know me and Sean both display autistic traits but my needs are probably different than his.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: so even if Bermud has good intentions its you know, ask us specifically what we need.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: Secondly I'd say providing clear expectations and tasks makes such a difference because sometimes i think tasks can be quite vague like helping us to know what to prioritise and what exactly is expected.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: it reduces so much anxiety and gives us more confidence to do our work.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: Great
• 36:57
  Speaker 0: points, Shan?
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: I suppose one thing... It's still not always easy necessarily to talk to Talk to the leads always, or especially talk with a client if you're working in a role where they are dealing with clients.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: It's not easy necessarily talking about your neurodiversity and it is something that isn't easily explained.
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: how this affects what will mean by being good at but also when I'm not so good.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: With my ADHD obviously can lead to problems of time management And suddenly thats made me reluctant sometimes to tell people i have ADHD and explain why im good having maybe a process that makes it easier to talk to leads and stuff about this thing.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: So, It could be something like work with me document And I do know someone who in the company has had worked with my documents That you can give to lead some people so they know exactly what your strengths are but also knows areas where you struggle because obviously You have various ways Like oh i'm really highly analytical Really good for reviewing things but I'm not good at getting off early in the morning, having meetings earlier in the mornin or there are times during a day where i might be less focused and if you don't give me specific deadlines of time lines then im gonna struggle to get work done at an appropriate pace.
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: so u need t give me specifc deadline.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: So maybe just have an easier way to communicate what your struggles are.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: I like it.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: It's a roadmap
• 38:29
  Speaker 0: to working with me, I bet.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah
• 38:32
  Speaker 0: Like don't depend on me for spelling.
• 38:34
  Speaker 0: Even today!
• 38:36
  Speaker 0: I asked Alexa at least one hundred times what they had to spell something But you can definitely get me for mapping terminology and really good at figuring out What term should map where in this DTM?
• 38:48
  Speaker 0: Knowing what your blind spots are is a very good thing
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: And its useful i think For leads.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: some people know that sort of straight off the bat so they can utilize you effectively, put your onto stuff that you're really good at whilst avoiding the stuff not suited for or going to struggle at.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: And it also allows them to tailor how they work with you, like some people might work well with vague deadlines but other people need very specific timelines and dates.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: so I actually get this stuff done.
• 39:15
  Speaker 0: Okay!
• 39:15
  Speaker 0: Transitioning to strengths & success.
• 39:18
  Speaker 0: It's important to talk about where we can improve But equally important to recognize what were already doing well.
• 39:25
  Speaker 0: What does VeraMed do well?
• 39:26
  Speaker 0: Can you share two examples of what VeraMed already excels at in supporting neurodivergent colleagues and how can we continue to build on those strengths as our culture evolves.
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, VeraMed has definitely helped me like even a few weeks ago.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: I have one specific example of my manager really listening to me and supporting for something specifically I'd say is an autistic struggle.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: So basically, I decided to come into the office last minute.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: it was a Wednesday and i didn't usually coming on Wednesdays.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: we do have a hot desking system but I did always sit in one specific seat.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: so I went to book that one And someone had already booked.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: you know?
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: It...I felt like I couldn't just say anything to them But told my manager she said no!
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: I'll ask him move.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: she did and it was amazing for her to do that because even though it just seems like a small thing or maybe even a picky thing, if I'd sat in a different seat out there i would have felt emotionally itchy all day.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: Something's wrong with having things on my desk or facing a different way... It is difficult to explain but it does mean a lot!
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: Again another one colleague with ARFID, both of us have been specifically catered to on work trips.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: You know like even in my grad meet and greet I told the organiser look i know there's going be a buffet but can I order something specific?
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: Even if it is more money...I'll pay for it!
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: I just don't think that would be able to eat
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: this.".
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: And instantly she said yeah you could have that as environmental pay for which was incredible.
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: um Yeah I'm so happy about that.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: So I guess those are two examples.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: I'd say that managers learning more of what they can do to support colleagues is really important, but That's exactly why our group is developing this training because we have the confidence To know everyone who attends it really cares about helping us.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah so The first thing to say i think having a culture club and Having their diversity within that Is an incredible thing.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: not every company would Have something like that.
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: very meds have put the resource and really care enough to actually have The Culture Club, And Have The Neurodiversity Group Existing.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: I think it's incredible as just a place like where me and CZ are... ...and you Lacey as well!
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: Where we can go We Can Be A Part Of A Group Feel Like We Have Community & Belonging.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: But It'S Also Great To Have A Group That Is Also Dedicated To Helping Spread Awareness Throughout The Whole Company.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: So which is what we do, if you spend awareness throughout the company.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: We develop materials like what Susie talked about with line management and leads training.
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: but another thing that's great certainly personally.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: for me my line manager has always been amazing.
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: he's really understanding of me and supportive.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: I remember when i was in a process to get my ADHD diagnosis.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: there were updates on how it all went Throughout that process.
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's just always interested and engaged with it And I was wanting to learn more or find out about me and what i feel works best for Me.
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: so he's always been incredibly supportive.
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: So obviously we're doing the lead these nine management training.
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: But I will say that there are a lot of people in the company already That are really supportive A lot of line managers that are already really supportive Of their line reports.
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: And of course, there's a lot of neurodivergent people in the company.
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: It's not just the people who are in the neurodiversity group themselves.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: There is neurodiversion across all companies and even those that aren't in the new diversity groups.
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: So I think this already has quite good understanding from other people about neurodivisity.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: so it does have a lot acceptance for a lot more people around us.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: So i really like to see the whole culture as well
• 43:04
  Speaker 0: Have the same feedback?
• 43:06
  Speaker 0: No one is trying to hold my potential or role being given opportunities and succeed, no one's putting me in a certain bucket because I have Dixlexa thinking which i really appreciate.
• 43:17
  Speaker 0: The other aspect of it as well is that you know we're given an opportunity in the states at least to work from home-and I know Susie works for Home too right?
• 43:28
  Speaker 0: And I feel like that gives me a quiet place where don't have a lot of distractions.
• 43:33
  Speaker 0: so the way company has been flexible enough you know a space that works for them or set up, it's really great.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: What is something else I do love about Varimeds?
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: So the reason why i work from home quite a lot especially during summer because of epilepsy and heat as trigger so its much easier to not have to worry about hot trains and things like that.
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: so managers have instantly been like yeah of course whatever temperature can handle If it's too much, just work from home that day.
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: You don't even need to tell us Just do what is best for you and your health.
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: I'm so grateful For that.
• 44:12
  Speaker 0: Is neurodiversity fully embraced across the organisation?
• 44:16
  Speaker 0: What would we have to be willing To unlearn about?
• 44:20
  Speaker 0: how we define good work or professional behaviour Or even high performance?
• 44:25
  Speaker 0: Any things we want throw
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: in there.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: One thing i can think of is about stimming.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: So its something That i deal with.
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: a lot of neurodivergent people Do the in meetings I like to just fidget with, but i do limit myself too making sure on mute camera off and work from home meetings because with camera on, it would look unprofessional.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: Just if that became more accepted... If that was seen as less unprofesional I think it'd make a great difference because It improves concentration even though i suppose That many people Would immediately think it looks like im distracted.
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: But yeah..it helps me and alot of other neurodivergent People actually concentrate better.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: Oh
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: good point Sean.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: Reiterate what Susie said about the stimmen.
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: for myself Im fidgeting all time!
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: I literally spin on my tray constantly, it's... I don't think its unprofessional and i move around a lot.
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: I moved constantly!
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: And that is not unprofesional.
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: It helps me to focus as well.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: I kind of feel like I can't sit still..I could never sit still.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: Not just um sort-of eye contact was the big thing but certainly for someone often more focused and better at speaking to people if my eyes aren't like locked into their eyes or locked in the camera.
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: Sometimes I'm much better thinking through ideas, thinkin' through things when like I am looking up at the sky.
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: but often what i most focus is when im lookin off to the side might actually be lookin of side making notes on a sidescreen Or it might be lookin upto the sky thinking about what the other person has said.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: That looks naturally like I'm distracted, but actually when i'm most distracted it's like... When I'm staring at the other persons' camera.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: So if im looking away and probably more focused on you then If Im staring at your being.. At least being aware that someone is looking away It doesn't mean they're not listening, actually.
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: Sometimes their trying to process the information that you are saying and then kind of need look away or look up to this guy who actually take that information in properly.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah
• 46:24
  Speaker 0: okay.
• 46:24
  Speaker 0: well thank both for sharing your experiences so openly today.
• 46:28
  Speaker 0: One thing I hope listeners takeaway is that neurodiversity isn't just about accommodations.
• 46:34
  Speaker 0: it's about recognizing different ways thinking.
• 46:37
  Speaker 0: bring different strengths perspectives opportunities creativity innovation one more way we can create space for people to show up as themselves, the stronger we become.
• 46:48
  Speaker 0: As a community and as a company better off we will all be.
• 46:51
  Speaker 0: thank you for joining me today And thanks everyone for listening until next time.