Latest / A Lifetime to Learn / "Every Good Social Worker Has a Good Social Worker" — Dr. VaShonda Eason on Mental Health, Access, and Entrepreneurship
Transcript
- [OPENING CLIP] DR. EASON: One of the hardest parts about owning Eason Counseling is — I was responsible for these clients. I was taking care of them, with their mental health. But now I feel like I have these families that I'm responsible for, and making sure ends are meeting so that they can take care of their families. [INTRO] LESLIE: This is a space where presence meets purpose, where we explore the moments that shape us. From entrepreneurs and change makers to women in leadership, it's about learning out loud together — with honesty and humor. We are luminaries with real stories that remind us how to live by our own rules. Because progress doesn't come from having all the answers. It comes from staying open. And we've got a lifetime to learn. I'm your host, Leslie Zanoff. Let's get started. [GUEST INTRODUCTION] LESLIE: Today's guest is someone whose life's work began on a Saturday morning sitting beside her mother, watching Lifetime movies and wondering about the backstory behind every single one. And that curiosity — about what brings people to their breaking points and turning points — just never left her. It grew into something extraordinary. LESLIE: Dr. VaShonda Eason is a licensed clinician, entrepreneur, and one of Northwest Arkansas's top voices in mental health. She holds a master's degree in social work from the University of Arkansas and a PhD in social psychology from Walden University, where her research focused on racial socialization and identity development in African-American women. LESLIE: She thought about being a family court attorney — until she realized she didn't want to stop when the verdict was read. She wanted to keep showing up for what comes after. LESLIE: I met VaShonda a few years ago while serving on a nonprofit organization together. And then we sat on a women's panel together and I thought — I wish I knew you better. This woman is amazing. That's what I thought, and I was right. LESLIE: In 2012, she founded EEN Counseling and Associates as a one-woman practice. Today, she employs 45 people, operates two clinics, and serves over 3,000 clients across Northwest Arkansas. She didn't just fill a gap in the mental health system. VaShonda, I feel like you have built a bridge. Welcome. I'm so excited you're here. DR. EASON: Thank you. That's a crazy introduction. Thank you. [INTERVIEW] LESLIE: I'm so excited. This is great. I've been looking forward to chatting with you. I know I'll back up here because you shared with me that watching Lifetime — Based on a True Story movies — with your mom kind of planted the seed for your career. What do you think those Saturdays back then really taught you that maybe you didn't realize at the time? DR. EASON: I mean, I guess now even thinking about the things I do with my daughter — it's just different. I spent weekends with my mom. She braided hair so she could be a stay-at-home mom, and she braided my hair as well. While she was there with her clients, we would always have Lifetime on. Some of my friends would say, "That's for the old ladies." But I was immediately just intrigued by the stories. I love hearing about people's stories. But then watching those things happen — true-life stories that ended up in a courtroom — I really became observant of people and behaviors and the trends in relationships. That curiosity would always just take me further with it. I feel like that's been most of my life's work: understanding people's stories, looking for patterns of behavior, and helping them try to break those and make some healthy ones. LESLIE: Yes. Breaking patterns of behavior — so important. I also want to talk about your PhD in social psychology and your research focused on identity and racial socialization in African-American women. What do you wish more women understood about how identity shapes our mental health? DR. EASON: I tell parents all the time that your voice as a parent becomes your child's consciousness. And for women, a lot of the time the voices around us — whether that be other women in our lives, friends, what ideals we should be living up to — all become these voices telling us who we should be. So trying to back that up a little bit and make sure we're thinking about who we want to be, what we want to focus on — that's where the true balance of mental health comes from. Because you're living for you and what you feel could be best for you, rather than what other people have influenced you to believe about yourself. LESLIE: So true. That is something I ask people all the time — who are you? What do you want? And so many times they do not know. As you moved through psychology, social work, and eventually into your private practice, have you seen gaps in the mental health system that concerned you? Maybe still concern you today? DR. EASON: I do feel like there's always been this arc of access. One of the reasons EEN Counseling came about was that I was working for a local agency providing services to kids in the schools. What I thought was amazing was that kids didn't have to get pulled out of school for an appointment and miss class — and typically the behaviors were happening in the schools, so we could be right there with them. But we were more so reaching clients who had Medicaid or government-backed insurance, versus those kids on private insurance or no insurance at all. So I wanted EEN Counseling to be open nights and weekends for those parents who worked and struggled to get their kids to appointments. DR. EASON: Access continues to be the issue. Mental health can be seen as a luxury. While some of the stigma is gone and people are seeking help — the minute times get hard and they need to meet a deductible, we see some people pull away. "I'll worry about mental health later." So we strive to accept all insurances and have financial assistance programs. There's also a cultural piece — you could be told to go to your church, your pastor, get guidance from elders in your family. And now we have influencer culture. People can ChatGPT things or find someone on TikTok — sometimes they're licensed clinicians giving broad advice — instead of getting that individualized care. That is a huge difference. LESLIE: You're right. Just because someone has a huge following on social media does not mean they are certified to speak to the care you need — especially with your mental health. Thank you for pointing that out. LESLIE: When you started EEN Counseling, you were seeing clients at night and on the weekends. Will you share what that season of life was like for you personally? DR. EASON: It was crazy. What I did was back up and go part-time at my full-time job so I was in control of my hours. I had two toddlers under four. I had a mentor who said to me, "This is the time to put in the hours and do the work, because once they start playing sports and having school plays, that is when you're going to want to be there — be in the car rider line." So I took that to heart and worked nights and weekends. I may have missed a soccer match of three-year-olds. But I had a great supportive husband who really took over at that time, and my sisters were in college here and spent a lot of time with the kids, which allowed me to help other families. LESLIE: I love that — great advice. Sometimes when your kids are young, you think, "I don't want to miss this." But really, at the stage we're at with kids in sports and activities, that wise woman's advice is exactly right. DR. EASON: Yes. And I don't miss anything now. My kids know I'm the one there to pick them up from school every day — even though my 16-year-old is driving and has basketball practice, so he drives himself home. But I don't miss games. I don't miss dance competitions. Because I was able to put in that work then, for now. LESLIE: I love that. You also had explosive growth in 2018 when the agency you were working with closed. Within six months — which is a short time — you went from a single provider to employing over 10 clinicians and support staff. How did you, as a mental health provider, stay grounded during that time of change? DR. EASON: That was definitely a crazy time. Within a year or two of that agency closing, another significant agency in the area also closed — both had been major service providers to the school districts for over 10 years. Once they were gone, there was a huge gap in mental health care in the schools. A lot of those schools I had already serviced, and I knew many of the colleagues from those agencies. They were asking, "Can I come? Can I come?" And I said, "Okay, we can." But at first we were just sharing space, each with our own caseloads. My husband and my administrative assistant at the time were the ones who said, "It's going to be time for you to pull back from seeing clients and focus on the managing side." So I did have to make a huge shift — from clinician to the person organizing things and making sure my clinicians felt supported. LESLIE: Your husband has been instrumental too. Is he still involved today? DR. EASON: He does still help out — as much as I try to pull him out! Right now he handles compliance and billing. He has a master's in business and is very much into forecasting — places my mind as a social worker doesn't always go. He sets those things up for us. It gives us a good back-and-forth because I'm seeing things as a clinician, thinking about how to serve our clinicians — and he brings in the "but this is what business has to look like." LESLIE: That is the worst part to me. I just want to do what I do — and there are still fees and taxes that have to be handled. DR. EASON: I tell my staff all the time — I'd give it away if I could! "Oh, you can't pay? That's fine." But we're running a business. LESLIE: This speaks to your leadership in the community. You now have 45 employees, two clinics, and 3,000 clients. How has your leadership evolved as your business has grown? DR. EASON: In the beginning, I tried to be the leader I wished I would have had. I always operated from a sense of — what kind of boss would I want? How would I feel supported? I carried that into Eason Counseling. Making sure clinicians are supported, that they can be the most productive they can be, and balancing their work and personal lives. I love encouraging them to have a life outside of work. A couple of years ago we had four EEN babies — and everybody was so nervous to tell me they wanted to take three months of maternity leave, like I was going to say no. I wanted to make sure they felt okay about spending those early months with their child and knowing there would be a place for them to come back to. LESLIE: I love that. That is such a real fear for women becoming mothers — whether you work for yourself or someone else. How much time is acceptable? The fact that you're open about that with your employees is so important. LESLIE: Let's shift gears. As a woman, you hold space for others' healing every day — especially in your line of work. How do you take care of yourself so you don't take everything home with you? DR. EASON: One of the pieces of advice I got in school was — every good social worker has a good social worker. So I do my own work in therapy. I also have a scheduled block in my calendar that says "Mommy Time" — it starts at 3:00. As I'm walking out the door, I say, "CEO hat off, mom hat on." I actually put my hand on my head and take it off. I'm always trying to remember which space I'm in and who I'm there for — whether it's mommy time, wife time, or friend VaShonda time. Separating those things has been key. LESLIE: I love that you're speaking it out loud. I always say — speak those things over yourself. My son caught me talking to myself the other day and said, "Are you spiraling?" And I said, "No, sometimes I just need expert advice." LESLIE: As you navigate your roles as an entrepreneur and caregiver, what insight do you want to share with women who are managing people and caring for people at the same time? DR. EASON: Surround yourself with other women carrying the same kind of lifestyle. My closest ally group is other women entrepreneurs and women-owned businesses in health. I can vent to them, listen to their vents, and know that I'm not alone. I think that's why social media is so popular — it helps us feel like we're not alone in what we're struggling with. If we can find a matched person, it gives us some grace for ourselves. I have a pediatrician friend, a friend who owns a nail salon, a friend who owns an eyelash studio — different worlds, but we're all in the helping professions. It brings balance. LESLIE: I want to join that group. Running a business alone — sometimes you just want to talk to people and say, "How are you doing this? How are you managing the technical side, the documents, whatever it is?" Just to have someone who understands. DR. EASON: Payroll. Keeping the lights on. That's one of the hardest parts about owning Eason Counseling. I was responsible for my clients' mental health, but now I feel like I have these families I'm responsible for — making sure ends are meeting so they can take care of their families. It's a lot of responsibility. So hearing from someone else that they're also dealing with that — it helps. LESLIE: What do you notice when women struggle the most when it comes to asking for help? Or even believing they're allowed to need it? DR. EASON: That's just it — believing it's okay to need it. For me, the first thing that comes up is weakness. If I'm asking for help, or making it seem like there's a struggle, then people are going to think I can't handle things. That I'm not the person they read about in that biography. So it becomes difficult. I think the key is finding people you know are safe — people you can trust to handle your vulnerability with care. Once you find those people, it becomes easier to ask, and you know who to go to. LESLIE: Yes — connection. Every time I meet and talk to someone, at the heart of it, it's about connection. Am I making space in my life for that connection with other women? Friendships. LESLIE: Do you have any books or podcast resources that have helped you on your leadership journey? DR. EASON: This is an interesting question for me because I actually use my reading and podcast time for fun stuff. I'm so involved in the hardest parts of people's lives every day that it gives me a chance to step out. I'm a huge Kardashian fan — Keeping Up with the Kardashians, Real Housewives — and I listen to Reasonably Shady, which is a podcast by Real Housewives cast members. I put myself in those spaces when I'm outside of work because it's such deep mental work to go there with people every day. LESLIE: I completely understand that. I love to learn, learn, learn — but then there's a point where I just need something frivolous. A zone-out moment. LESLIE: Since this podcast is called A Lifetime to Learn — is there something that's taken you a lifetime to learn, or advice that's made a lasting impact? DR. EASON: It's funny because we just talked about it — asking for help. That probably took me a long time to learn. Something I'm still working on personally is perfectionism. Things always have to fit how I expected or planned them in my head. When they don't, the world doesn't have to fall apart — and I don't have to fall apart. Just accepting the flaws and knowing it's okay. LESLIE: My Instagram handle used to be "Perfection is a Unicorn" — because, you know, oldest daughter. There's always going to be some of that. LESLIE: Me too. Oh my gosh. [CLOSING] LESLIE: VaShonda, thank you so much for being here today. I love it. And I've already told her she's going to have to come back to talk more deeply about kids' mental health and all of the nuances that go into working with children. But I want to make sure our listeners know where to find you – your website, email, all the places. DR. EASON: The best way to reach me is by email at vashonda@easoncounseling.com, and visit our website at easoncounseling.com. We have two clinics — one in downtown Johnson, right across from Pizzeria Ruby, and one in downtown Rogers. Those are the best places to find us. LESLIE: Perfect. Thank you so much. DR. EASON: Thank you for having me. This has been great. [OUTRO] LESLIE: Thanks for being here on A Lifetime to Learn. If today's episode inspired you or sparked a new thought, please share it with someone who might need it too. And if you haven't yet, be sure to subscribe to get notifications when we launch new episodes. I've got conversations with extraordinary people lined up and I can't wait for you to listen. LESLIE: For more information on how to work with me, visit lesliezanoff.com — where I share resources to help you lead with presence and live with intention. Because remember, we're not here to have it all figured out. We're here to keep showing up with open hearts and open minds. Because we've got a lifetime to learn. Until next time, friends — be well.