Latest / Adult Child of Dysfunction / E 357: The Inner Child, Shame and Healing Guest David Deane Haskell

Transcript

E 357: The Inner Child, Shame and Healing Guest David Deane Haskell · Adult Child of Dysfunction

• 0:02
  Well, hello everybody, and welcome back to another episode of Adult Child of Dysfunction.
• 0:06
  Today, we have with us David Dean Haskell, who writes speculative science fiction, healing nonfiction, and wellness-centered essays about identity, belonging, transformation, and the meeting points of technology, spirituality, trauma, and imagination.
• 0:21
  His work follows outsiders and wounded people trying to become whole without abandoning the parts of themselves that once helped them survive.
• 0:29
  Welcome, David.
• 0:32
  Thank you so much, Tammy.
• 0:33
  It's amazing to be here, and I'm really grateful that we could connect, from across the world.
• 0:37
  you're in...
• 0:37
  You said you're in China.
• 0:39
  Japan.
• 0:40
  I'm sorry just outside of Tokyo.
• 0:41
  yeah.
• 0:41
  Okay.
• 0:41
  I have been to China.
• 0:43
  I've been all over Asia, but yeah, I'm in Japan at the moment, Okay.
• 0:45
  Nothing so exotic where I'm at.
• 0:47
  I'm in Florida, right next to Disney World.
• 0:50
  I'm right next to Disneyland Tokyo, so- small world.
• 0:53
  Okay.
• 0:53
  Yeah.
• 0:53
  Sounds good.
• 0:54
  So it looks like, and I don't have a whole lot of information about you, but I did read just the names of your books and things like that.
• 1:02
  So I'm gonna get right into that and jumpstart into that conversation, because there's a reason you wrote a book titled what you titled your book.
• 1:10
  So talk about your book to start with, and that'll get us going.
• 1:14
  Okay.
• 1:15
  Thank you.
• 1:15
  The book, I think that we're gonna focus on today is Wounded Angels, which is an inner child healing book, and it came, it came out of the healing that I was already doing, that I was already working on.
• 1:28
  I had written a whole bunch of science fiction before that, four novels I published between 2013 to 2019, and I also have a new sci-fi book.
• 1:38
  So I'm really kinda melding sci-fi and, trauma healing, which doesn't sound like...
• 1:43
  in a way it makes sense in my mind because I'm basically looking at the past, how to heal it, what happened, essays on what's going on these days, my travels and whatnot on Substack, and then the future, right?
• 1:55
  So for me, the only fiction I write is the future.
• 1:57
  The nonfiction as I see it is all in the past.
• 2:00
  And so Wounded Angels came out of that.
• 2:03
  I was, recovering from trauma, recovering from addiction, had been doing, a lot of, adult child of dysfunction kind of things, including, doing a lot of reading about codependence, which was...
• 2:15
  i had substance issues, but I also had people addiction issues.
• 2:19
  Right.
• 2:19
  It turned out the people thing was even deeper.
• 2:22
  And so the inner child came out of that, and I was doing it, and for years really, 2001-ish.
• 2:29
  I wasn't really writing at the time.
• 2:31
  I was in the middle of a writer's block because I- Mm-hmm was trying to, heal spiritually and emotionally, and I just couldn't write.
• 2:37
  And when I was able to finally write after some of the healing was done, the book kind of wrote itself.
• 2:43
  It was, I had just started chronicling the work.
• 2:46
  So as I was doing inner child work every morning, I was also writing it.
• 2:49
  So it's just like real time what healing feels like for me.
• 2:55
  Sounds good.
• 2:55
  And inner child work and inner child healing is so transformational.
• 3:00
  I want you to give..
• 3:01
  I've done it on and off.
• 3:02
  It's part of my life forever now, just pulling the little pieces and everything.
• 3:06
  But tell people that are listening that have never really delved into a program or a workbook or whatever it is, what your big picture of inner child healing is.
• 3:20
  Yeah.
• 3:20
  it's interesting 'cause a lot of people aren't familiar with it and the terminology can throw you off.
• 3:25
  There's this IFS stuff, which is, internal family systems, which is a more structured psychiatric, evolution of inner child really.
• 3:34
  But for me, what it really comes down to is when I have a trigger in the current moment, and trigger is also another word that is kinda overused and abused and that sort of thing, but when I say
• 3:48
  trigger, I just mean an emotional or mental reaction that seems oversized to the situation.
• 3:54
  And what I usually give as an example is if, Tammy and Joey go off to dinner and don't invite me, or even specifically say, "You're not invited," I might be, hurt or sad or irritated.
• 4:06
  But if I really blow up and just go, "I can't believe I never get invited.
• 4:10
  People hate me.
• 4:11
  Why am I so disliked?"
• 4:13
  All this kind of stuff, for me, it always goes back to some deeper root issue, something to do with trauma or, rejection, discard, abuse, neglect from when I was a kid.
• 4:27
  I do have, I do get in touch with inner child adults too, but the ones that were stuck in those, scapegoated places and those shamed places, that's inner child.
• 4:38
  And for me, I have a, had a really easy one 'cause I had an extremely traumatic day when I was nine years old.
• 4:46
  I remember it clear as a bell, I always have.
• 4:48
  And it, it's in the book.
• 4:50
  it's really the crux of, the structure of the book, Wounded Angels.
• 4:54
  And so for me, it was like finding the inner child was not a problem because I had a clearly traumatized, this is the worst day of my life moment to go back to.
• 5:03
  So when I got re-traumatized, about 40 years later, which is also in the book, I suddenly could clearly see, okay, this nine-year-old was traumatized.
• 5:13
  He's having a shame attack, which he didn't understand what that was.
• 5:17
  he feels like unlikable, unlovable, impossible to recover from that.
• 5:22
  He can't make friends, and he agrees with them that he must be just unlikable and unlovable.
• 5:27
  And that kid, the traumatized kid, just got stuck there.
• 5:31
  And so that's the inner child work, finding that stuck part of us, and then just sitting with them, listening, asking questions.
• 5:40
  it depends on what they need, but I find the inner child is extremely wise.
• 5:44
  It's like I'm not here to parent them necessarily.
• 5:46
  It's more like I wanna hear what they have to say about how they were not properly taken care of.
• 5:52
  Right.
• 5:52
  And just show them that you're here now for them.
• 5:55
  Did you ever, going through your work with inner child work, did you ever have a therapist or w- whatever, a psychiatrist or anybody tell you to do the old put the picture of yourself on a mirror and tell
• 6:06
  yourself you love yourself and look at that picture every day?
• 6:10
  Haven't done the picture thing, no.
• 6:11
  But I have, I've, affirmations are, well, not so much anymore.
• 6:15
  I haven't done affirmations in a while, but they have over the years been, big now that I mention it.
• 6:19
  I should get back to them, 'cause affirmations are awesome.
• 6:22
  And the thing about that is they're so cringe.
• 6:25
  when you first start it, "Oh, I love myself.
• 6:27
  You're lovable."
• 6:28
  It's like, "Ugh, I wanna throw up.
• 6:29
  This is gross."
• 6:30
  and that's trauma too, 'cause like- Mm-hmm I wouldn't mind saying that to a six-year-old that I know, but why would I not say it to myself, especially my child self?
• 6:40
  So I don't cringe anymore, but whenever I...
• 6:43
  It's kind of, sweet when you meet somebody who's doing it for the first time that has been, affected so deeply and they start cringing and, "Oh, this is gross.
• 6:50
  I can't stand it."
• 6:51
  Yeah, I know how you feel, and that's the trauma getting released- Absolutely because we all deserve that kind of thing.
• 6:57
  Yeah.
• 6:58
  Absolutely.
• 6:59
  I remember, I did it very on the sly 'cause nobody knew I was, going to therapy.
• 7:03
  it was like this whole thing, So I remember having a picture of myself, and it was inside my journal, and I would open it every day and I would look at it.
• 7:09
  And you're right, it was cringe at first.
• 7:11
  at first, I hated that little girl.
• 7:13
  It took me a long time before I was like, "Huh.
• 7:17
  Wow.
• 7:17
  She was actually kinda innocent, kind of vulnerable, kinda maybe needed more than she got," But It took months of that.
• 7:24
  Mm-hmm.
• 7:24
  So if you were, if, when I tell people, and I, I, the reason I ask you that is because I do run across a lot of people, and they'll hear someone say, "Oh, you should d- go do inner
• 7:32
  child work," and that's sometimes one of the first things that is suggested to them, and sometimes- Mm-hmm that stops the whole process.
• 7:41
  Yeah.
• 7:42
  Because there is- Well- that self-loathing and that self-shame and that s- that shame spiral like you kind of alluded to before.
• 7:50
  Totally.
• 7:51
  Shame, well, shame spiral, yes.
• 7:52
  I also refer to shame attack, which is actually akin to a panic attack, which people, a lot more people can kinda more easily relate to.
• 8:00
  Even if you don't have a panic attack, you know what it would feel like if a tiger walked into the room, right?
• 8:07
  So, you can imagine a panic attack or, an actual panic.
• 8:10
  Shame attack is similar to that.
• 8:11
  It's just as horrible, just as, all-encompassing and just, "I gotta fix this.
• 8:16
  I gotta get out of here."
• 8:17
  In panic attack, you tend to run.
• 8:18
  Shame attack, more you go inward.
• 8:20
  Right.
• 8:21
  "I have to, I have to hide in plain sight."
• 8:24
  And, yeah.
• 8:24
  And the shame spiral, too.
• 8:25
  It's, I think that's another aspect of shame, which, because it, you, you start, putting yourself down and, and finding re- ways to feel worse and worse.
• 8:36
  And, the one thing I would say as far as people who are stopping or who, as you said, which is sad to hear, "I hated that little girl."
• 8:43
  me too, I hated that boy.
• 8:45
  a lot of them, not just the one, but, the various situations.
• 8:49
  I sometimes say inner children.
• 8:51
  But yeah, if somebody feels like that, and I did, and you did- It, logically, if you think about it, 'cause we're all smart people, if you think about it logically and rationally, if you met a seven-year-old kid, would
• 9:04
  you ever hate them?
• 9:05
  Right.
• 9:06
  You know?
• 9:06
  Right?
• 9:07
  Would you see the innocence, see the damage, try to help them all you could?
• 9:11
  I mean, yeah, maybe you might meet a seven-year-old that irritates you or whatever but, point being, hating ourselves is not logical.
• 9:19
  It doesn't make sense.
• 9:20
  It's a trauma thing, and that's, and I, I didn't believe.
• 9:23
  I was like, "N- no."
• 9:25
  somebody said to me long ago, "Go where you're celebrated, not where you're tolerated."
• 9:30
  Mm.
• 9:31
  Right?
• 9:32
  And I- I love that and that's, that's my life today, but it took years.
• 9:36
  And at the time, I couldn't accept that.
• 9:40
  I was like, "The best I will ever do is tolerated because I'm not likable and I'm not lovable."
• 9:46
  This was only, five, six years ago.
• 9:48
  Wow.
• 9:49
  You know?
• 9:49
  That, that was my reality, and, and it's not true.
• 9:53
  I am likable.
• 9:54
  I am lovable.
• 9:55
  I don't cringe when I say that.
• 9:57
  Not everybody likes me, but that's okay.
• 9:59
  I don't have to be liked by everyone.
• 10:02
  I like myself, I love myself, and I'm pretty cool with the way things are going, and that took a lot of inner child work and other, what- whatever you wanna use for modalities.
• 10:13
  I used a bunch and I, it's in the back of my book, I talk about the techniques that I used and whatnot.
• 10:18
  but yeah, inner child is a huge part of that.
• 10:21
  Yeah.
• 10:21
  And like you said, the I- the IFS, the internal family systems, and that's, Mm-hmm the parts work and, and, but the, the big idea of everything, I think, and I agree 100% with you, is no matter what it
• 10:33
  is, no matter how you're walking around in the world today, if you're not walking around like you wanna be, it's probably because of something that happened a long time ago.
• 10:42
  I have yet to have someone be like, "Oh yeah,, I just got these confidence issues at 56, 6 years old."
• 10:49
  It's like, no, they came when people were telling me I was a horrible kid when I was eight.
• 10:52
  You know?
• 10:54
  When people were, when you were afraid to stand up, 'cause every time you stood up, you were told to sit down and shut up.
• 10:59
  And, I mean, those are, those are the things, and when we talk, about affirmations and stuff, I try to make it very blatantly clear to people, that the way you act, when you overreact, or those are the big
• 11:11
  things.
• 11:11
  And I try to tell people, so I'll say it to myself sometimes, I'll snap, and you used a great example about somebody not inviting you some- somewhere, where it might just be that it was just them making plans,
• 11:21
  but all of a sudden you go into this, "It's me.
• 11:23
  They don't like me.
• 11:24
  I'm not likable," and you start down this road where at the end of the day It's because of what was done to you when you were little.
• 11:32
  And I try to explain to people, when you are little, everything is big.
• 11:37
  Mm-hmm.
• 11:37
  So even if you can trace it back to that exact moment, now as an adult you're like, "Wow."
• 11:43
  I mean, I'm not saying in your case, but in some cases people are like, "Wow, that didn't seem like that big of a deal."
• 11:49
  "But when you were five, that's huge."
• 11:52
  Sure.
• 11:52
  It's huge.
• 11:53
  Yeah.
• 11:53
  No, absolutely true.
• 11:55
  And, and it's, I see that too when I talk to others.
• 11:58
  'Cause I, I had some extreme trauma.
• 12:02
  My mom passed away when I was four.
• 12:04
  Mm.
• 12:04
  This is traumatic.
• 12:05
  Even before that point, my parents divorced when I was, one.
• 12:09
  She remarried, and we moved several times.
• 12:12
  She was mentally unwell, and, these kinds of things, even without her passing away, would've been quite traumatic.
• 12:19
  Right.
• 12:19
  And so, and then my dad, dad was alcoholic.
• 12:22
  so it's kinda easy to say, "Okay, yeah, trauma."
• 12:24
  But then other people say, "Well, my story wasn't that bad," this or that.
• 12:28
  sometimes people just don't see it until later.
• 12:31
  but then other times, I think, as you say it, everybody's experience is their own profound experience, and some people had it way worse than me.
• 12:38
  I think, I refer to, the kids in a war zone, that, that kind of thing.
• 12:41
  You know, obviously there is a, a range of things, but, if you were hurt, you were hurt.
• 12:47
  If you were wounded, you were wounded.
• 12:48
  And, caregivers can wound with just words.
• 12:51
  Oh, absolutely.
• 12:52
  And it can really...
• 12:52
  Yeah.
• 12:53
  And my, my dad, who I did make peace with him, and, he read my book.
• 12:58
  He, in my book, and- Oh, wow I gave it to him before I published it.
• 13:01
  He, it, it hurt him.
• 13:02
  He felt badly about it, but I told my truth.
• 13:05
  And, yeah, he was doing the best he could, but he was alcoholic, and he was doing harm.
• 13:10
  I understand this because I was doing the best I could with my daughter.
• 13:13
  I'm alcoholic, and I did harm.
• 13:15
  Right.
• 13:15
  So I was able to see both sides of that.
• 13:17
  And then when I was able to quit the substances and quit the codependency and all that stuff, I was able to start repairing things with my daughter, with- together with her help.
• 13:27
  She was willing, and she tried.
• 13:29
  You know, I love her.
• 13:30
  We had lunch together yesterday.
• 13:32
  She's 22 years old, So- Aw from 14 to 22, things could be repaired.
• 13:36
  But in any case, harm was done.
• 13:40
  I didn't want to, I didn't mean to, but I did harm to her.
• 13:43
  My dad did harm to me, whether he meant to or not, and I don't believe that he meant to, but, the- Well- you could not mean, you could not mean to hit somebody with your car, and it still
• 13:51
  hurts them and still, it does harm.- Exactly.
• 13:53
  You don't necessarily...
• 13:55
  And that's one of the hardest things with the alcoholism, too, is that, when people, people talk about different addictions and different kinds of dysfunction and different traumas and different things, and so often I, I look back, at my
• 14:07
  parents, and 100%, I, I'm at peace with it now.
• 14:11
  I'm, I was at peace with my father.
• 14:13
  I said my father never did anything wrong.
• 14:15
  he never hit me.
• 14:16
  He never, physically abused me.
• 14:18
  He never did any of that.
• 14:19
  But at the same time, he wasn't emotionally there enough to do anything right, to protect me- Right to be there for me.
• 14:27
  Mm-hmm and, and with that, again, I can look back at it now, and there's no emotional, energetic charge of anger behind it.
• 14:37
  Mm-hmm.
• 14:37
  But it took a long time.
• 14:39
  Yeah It took a long time.
• 14:41
  But I think- And there was anger, yeah.
• 14:43
  Yeah There is, and there, those emotions, we have to go through them too, 'cause I- Mm I really, I, I used to say early on in the healing process, there was three people that I hated more than anyone.
• 14:54
  My dad, myself, and God.
• 14:56
  Mm.
• 14:56
  Right?
• 14:57
  And, literally I couldn't pick between those three.
• 14:59
  My dad was probably third, and then me and God were tied for first, something like that.
• 15:03
  Mm.
• 15:03
  And that, that had to do with, why did you let my mom die?
• 15:06
  You know that's like, that's, how do you make peace with that?
• 15:09
  Well, everybody has their own spiritual journey too.
• 15:13
  Right.
• 15:13
  But, I was angry, hateful, spiteful, resentful, all that, and, and I felt those emotions.
• 15:19
  I allowed myself to feel it, and I also did some, a lot of writing work on it.
• 15:23
  You know, there is, there's so much help out there- Yeah if people are ready to give it a try, So yeah.
• 15:30
  And it's also, having walked both sides of it, you have a much more compassionate view of it too, because you can see- I do, I do you, you really, you have, you have to.
• 15:40
  I mean, you've walked both sides.
• 15:42
  You've been- Yeah the person that had the alcoholic parent, and you've been the alcoholic parent so- Yep you can, you can walk both sides.
• 15:49
  Yeah.
• 15:49
  And I think that's, I think that is such a good place to come from when you're helping people, because so much, even though we try not to, there's still that stigma and there's that judgment, and there's that just
• 16:01
  not understanding, not understanding- Yeah what that's like.
• 16:05
  And- Sure talk about, tell us about when you went through, you said you went through a pretty profound spiritual journey.
• 16:13
  I mean, if- Mm-hmm you and- Yeah you, your father, and God you hated the most out of three beings in the world, that had to have been a pretty intense journey to come out of that.
• 16:23
  Absolutely.
• 16:24
  And, again, it wasn't fast., I'm really, I encourage people to take it slow and realize, like there's a lot of quick fix stuff out there on the internet and podcasts and all this.
• 16:35
  Just let it go and do a minute of affirmations and you're gonna be a millionaire or whatever, they go.
• 16:41
  That wasn't my story.
• 16:42
  and even two years into, or like almost two years after quitting all substances, well not coffee, but other substances, I still hadn't made peace with the higher power thing, God, whatnot.
• 16:57
  And I used to call myself an atheist, but I think I never was.
• 17:00
  I think I just hated, God.
• 17:02
  And so I, you know, every, again, I'm, I'm not gonna get too deeply into my resolutions, but I did a reflection and prayer, meditation, exercise, grounding, these, these things over a course of months and years led me to
• 17:18
  some personal conclusions about what I think that whole thing is all about and, why I don't believe God does mean things or terrible things for me.
• 17:26
  Um, but the spiritual awakening came.
• 17:29
  It, it was June 2020.
• 17:31
  I wrote, it's on my Substack.
• 17:32
  I wrote about it actually.
• 17:33
  Oh, wow.
• 17:34
  And it was, it, it came out of meditation.
• 17:36
  I'd started doing meditation for real for a while, and at first it was, I got these really dark thoughts.
• 17:43
  The world is horrible.
• 17:44
  Everything's horrible.
• 17:45
  I'm horrible, And then over a couple of days, I continued meditating.
• 17:50
  That stuff sort of flushed itself out, and I was on a beach not far from here, and- I had a sudden thought, which was, "I should be dead."
• 18:01
  And this was age 50.
• 18:03
  I had actively worked hard to harm myself for decades.
• 18:08
  I was 100 pounds overweight, reckless stuff all the time, I should have died from liver failure or lung cancer.
• 18:17
  I was a heavy smoker.
• 18:19
  I did reckless things like, just you name it, reckless things.
• 18:22
  Mm-hmm.
• 18:23
  And so I- it's just luck, or whatever you wanna call it, that I was alive, And I was sitting on that beach, and suddenly the, the sky seemed much bigger and the ocean seemed much bigger, and I was
• 18:35
  like, "Wow."
• 18:36
  Then I got this sense of presence, which- Mm-hmm hasn't ever really left me.
• 18:40
  It comes and goes in intensity.
• 18:42
  But, it's a personal feeling.
• 18:44
  I don't claim any knowledge or that anybody should agree with me.
• 18:48
  But for me, that just changed things.
• 18:51
  But I still kind of hated the guy, so it was like there was still a lot of work to be done there.
• 18:56
  And My understanding of God is kinda, I can just be like, "You, you jerk.
• 19:00
  What, what's wrong with you?
• 19:01
  Why'd you do this to me today?"
• 19:02
  I can talk to him however I want 'cause I'm the child of creation, whatever you wanna call it.
• 19:07
  I don't worry about, groveling.
• 19:10
  Right.
• 19:10
  No.
• 19:11
  Yeah.
• 19:11
  Absolutely not.
• 19:12
  Absolutely not.
• 19:13
  Yeah, and it's, and it's funny how people go through that different thing.
• 19:16
  Because people always said, "Well, did you always believe in God?"
• 19:18
  one time my daughter, I remember her said to me, she gave me, this little cross, and I was like, "Man, we haven't gone to church in so long," and "Why would you, why do you think that would be
• 19:26
  a symbol that would represent me?"
• 19:28
  And she's like, "'Cause you are the most spiritual person I know."
• 19:30
  Yeah.
• 19:31
  In your own way.
• 19:32
  But I can remember.
• 19:33
  Right.
• 19:33
  I can remember when I was a little kid, whenever I would get scared, and I can, several times throughout my life, I can remember, hiding in certain places and being like, asking, "Who's gonna come save me?"
• 19:43
  kinda thing.
• 19:44
  And it was so- Mm funny 'cause like you said, you kinda get this presence and I remember hearing, "Tammy, Tammy, Tammy".
• 19:49
  And literally for, until I was about 25 years old, I was like, "You're mocking me.
• 19:54
  Are you kidding me?"
• 19:55
  Like- Yeah it was like I could picture him, shaking his head, being like, "Give me a break," you know?
• 20:00
  And I was, I, that, I was mad at that point, and it wasn't until I was 26 when I was getting ready to have my first kid that all of a sudden I was like, "Huh."
• 20:08
  It was like one day I just heard it differently., One day I heard him being like, "You're gonna save you."
• 20:14
  Like, "Me, you, we're together, we got this" kinda thing.
• 20:17
  Right.
• 20:17
  Yeah.
• 20:18
  And that was, everybody has their moment.
• 20:20
  but I mean, you ha- Well, I, not to get too, I don't wanna be dark about it, but not everybody has their moment, though.
• 20:26
  Some people take this pain into the grave, which I've seen.
• 20:29
  Oh, no, I'm s- That's a bad thing no, I'm saying that- But when people have that awakening- When, yeah or whatever you wanna call it- When it, when it's, yes it's usually a, a moment.
• 20:38
  But- Yeah.
• 20:38
  Oh, yeah.
• 20:39
  Like, I didn't, not to, and also not to contradict either, I love what you're saying.
• 20:42
  I'm hanging on every word.
• 20:44
  I just, I had, the, the trauma and addiction can really...
• 20:48
  This is why I wanna, if anybody's struggling, don't give up hope.
• 20:51
  Gives, give- Yeah a try to some stuff because yeah, it's, when you, if you do get there,, it's beautiful, and it starts to heal the stuff that was horrible.
• 21:00
  Yeah.
• 21:00
  But yeah, the, it is, and I do know some people who didn't get there, and it's, that's also tragic.
• 21:05
  I lost a cousin to alcohol.
• 21:06
  He was 29 years old.
• 21:08
  Wow.
• 21:09
  So as I sort of- I, as I say, I'm not looking to switch it to the dark side, but it's- Oh, no, no, no it's very, it's great That's, I mean- It's really, you're serious.
• 21:18
  This stuff is so serious, and it's beautiful.
• 21:21
  I encourage people to, find their own way, that the stuff that we're talking about here, right?
• 21:25
  Yeah.
• 21:25
  And it's whatever you need to get you there.
• 21:28
  I've said to people, "If you don't wanna do it for you, do it for your children.
• 21:31
  Do it for, you know, whatever."
• 21:33
  Mm-hmm.
• 21:33
  Like, what- whatever gets you there, but you have to want to do it.
• 21:37
  I mean, that's the biggest thing.
• 21:39
  When you are in there, you ha- you have to want to.
• 21:41
  Something inside you has got- Mm-hmm to want to either have a better life or just live.
• 21:47
  Mm-hmm.
• 21:47
  because- I think, yeah, I totally agree with you, and I, if you're out there and trying to figure out how to do it, or if, you feel like, I, I don't want to, or I'm not worth it, or
• 21:57
  I can't, for me, I think the question is has the, is, am I in enough pain yet?
• 22:06
  because to me it's like, sometimes people said, "Oh, you're courageous for quitting drinking," or whatever.
• 22:13
  I don't see it as courage necessarily, but more like the pain just got so much that I had no choice.
• 22:18
  Like- Mm you know, when you hit that bottom, you'll do anything, right?
• 22:24
  But, the thing is, people don't have to wait for that.
• 22:27
  Right.
• 22:27
  I, I had to wait for that twice, 'cause it was two bottoms, 'cause codependency was a whole different thing.
• 22:33
  Right.
• 22:33
  and that was the start of the inner child work.
• 22:35
  But, you know, have you been in enough pain?
• 22:37
  Are you tired of it yet?
• 22:38
  Are you ready to, wanna try something else,, just to try to ease the pain?
• 22:42
  That to me is the thing, because sometimes you can be so self-loathing.
• 22:45
  I was.
• 22:45
  I was like, "No, I'm not, I'm not worth it.
• 22:47
  Nobody thinks I am, and neither do I."
• 22:49
  but I am in a lot of pain.
• 22:51
  Right.
• 22:51
  So it's like, if you're, if you're in so much, pain that you have to go to the doctor, that kind of thing, and you know, does help.
• 22:59
  And I try to tell everybody, you are worth it.
• 23:01
  And even, like I said- Yeah if you have children, if you have parents that love you, whatever it is, you're worth it.
• 23:08
  And that's, it, it's a hard c- it's really, really hard when you're, when you're that deep and you're just feeling like you're not.
• 23:14
  Hard to.
• 23:14
  Yeah.
• 23:14
  And sometimes even- Mm-hmm y- a lot of ti- most of the time actually, it's not even a thing that you might consciously be aware of.
• 23:23
  It's, a l- a lot of the people that I talk to that are just like, "I don't understand why I'm just not happy," or, "Why I just feel like when I walk in a room everybody's looking at me,"
• 23:32
  and it's all that subconscious, it's all that.
• 23:35
  And, and they'll kinda go back to that, "Well, I never had this big trauma.
• 23:38
  Nobody ever told me I was hated.- That doesn't matter.
• 23:42
  Like you said, if you were hurt, and something happened at some point along the way and it changed the way you look at the world, and it changed the way you look at yourself, then it was trauma Absolutely.
• 23:56
  Absolutely.
• 23:57
  Trauma's not definable.
• 23:58
  No, absolutely not.
• 24:01
  I had, I use an example all the time of one of the, one of the people that I work with, and she literally just had this un- just unshakable feeling that she was not lovable by her mother.
• 24:11
  And her mother told her she loved her all the time, and we literally, kinda went back over several months.
• 24:17
  And finally one day we're talking and she goes, "I remember."
• 24:21
  And I was like, "What?"
• 24:22
  She goes, "When I was in first grade, my mother got a new job, and she was late three days in a row to pick me up because they were getting the schedules right, and she was at a sleepover
• 24:31
  in front of 15 of her friends, and the mom came down to say, 'I love you girls,' and the little girl turned around and looked at her and said, 'Your mom must not love you because she doesn't come
• 24:40
  to school to pick you up on time.'"
• 24:42
  Oh, no.
• 24:43
  And I literally was like, ba-bing.
• 24:46
  And I said, "That had the same effect on her as my mother who told me she hated me every day."
• 24:52
  It's just what you hear.
• 24:54
  And like I said, when you're little, everything is big Mm-hmm.
• 24:58
  Yeah.
• 24:59
  Absolutely.
• 25:00
  And the, the caregivers, they're gods, right?
• 25:02
  Yeah.
• 25:02
  I mean, if you think about it like that.
• 25:04
  And yeah, and gods can't do wrong, so- Exactly it must be my fault.
• 25:09
  Yeah, that's-- that again, that, that's also what informed my God concept, the higher power concept, and the, as far as like the higher power, and if you're out there listening and you're like, "I don't believe in God, I
• 25:20
  don't believe in this, I don't believe in that," I- Mm-hmm it's okay.
• 25:24
  But what I can tell you might help sometimes is just believe that there's something...
• 25:29
  If you can't handle it or you're not feeling like you can handle it, I told somebody the other day, I don't care if it's the frog statue in your front yard, if you think somebody else can handle it
• 25:40
  or something else can handle it, surrender to that.
• 25:44
  Surrender to that because it just takes a little of the burden off.
• 25:49
  So whether it's the universe or the, the Buddha or God or Allah or the frog statue in your front yard, just knowing that you don't have to handle everything sometimes just takes a little of the stress away.
• 26:04
  Hmm, absolutely.
• 26:05
  And also, I would add that, for me, it was a long time, that process, to get to a spiritual place.
• 26:11
  But even before that, what I started with, I was helped with this by people, who were very kind and loving.
• 26:17
  I started with, gratitude.
• 26:19
  Mm-hmm.
• 26:19
  And it was like, "Well, what do I have to be grateful for?
• 26:21
  Oh, well, it's, it's kind of a nice day today," you know?
• 26:23
  "Oh, the," "that, that puppy's kinda cute," "i'm, I'm grateful that there's food in the refrigerator.
• 26:27
  I'm not gonna starve today."
• 26:29
  These kinds of things, very simple and, so that started me on a certain path.
• 26:34
  And it, it also kind of started to bring me back to myself.
• 26:37
  When I started to feel grateful for things, I started to be okay being in my own skin because, my brain wasn't constantly doing negative.
• 26:44
  It was doing some positive, you know?
• 26:46
  It's hard to hang out with a negative person, right?
• 26:48
  Right.
• 26:49
  So if you're negative by yourself, then you don't wanna hang out with yourself.
• 26:52
  And if you can't be quiet and spend time with yourself, then you're in a, in a place where you're not gonna start getting to those spiritual experiences.
• 27:00
  Right.
• 27:01
  And I- And from there, I also encourage, whatever s- spirituality means, the meditation or reflection, even inner child work too I think is a very spiritual thing.
• 27:10
  So, you know- I think exploration is a big key.
• 27:14
  Yeah.
• 27:15
  Just being curious and not being so judgmental when you have those thoughts.
• 27:18
  Just be curious about them- Yeah and explore, like you said, explore them instead of judging them.
• 27:22
  Mm-hmm.
• 27:23
  Absolutely.
• 27:23
  And I love that you've mentioned the fact of the gratitude, and I always say that in the first thing in the morning.
• 27:28
  I mean, I always say, "On a scale of one to 10, what was your stress level when you woke up?"
• 27:32
  And I would say out of the 300 people that I asked just to kinda get a, gauge, they were between seven and nine.
• 27:40
  I'm like, that is terrible.
• 27:41
  Wow.
• 27:41
  That is terrible.
• 27:42
  wake up and, feel your body.
• 27:44
  Where are you feeling it?
• 27:45
  Oh, it feels like there's an elephant on my chest.
• 27:47
  It's like, okay, well, just slow that down.
• 27:49
  Before you do anything, just find five things, five quick things to be grateful for.
• 27:54
  Mm-hmm.
• 27:55
  'Cause it just takes you away from that.
• 27:57
  You know, and then it, and then just tell yourself, like you said, the affirmations.
• 28:01
  And I'm, I'm a very big fan of if you're gonna do an affirmation, you can't just say it, you have to feel it, and I truly believe that.
• 28:10
  And that is the hardest thing, because I feel like sometimes for me there used to be very empty affirmations.
• 28:16
  Like- Mm-hmm I am lovable, I am adorable, I am blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and then I would look in the mirror and be like, "Ugh."
• 28:22
  So...
• 28:23
  But- Yeah you have to feel it in your body.
• 28:25
  So I tell people, when you're laying there and you wake up in the morning and you say, "Thank you, God, for another day," or just, "Thank you for another day," feel grateful.
• 28:34
  Feel it.
• 28:35
  Yeah.
• 28:35
  So that it, y- because your mind will start to actually believe that.
• 28:39
  Mm-hmm.
• 28:39
  And then it would be, the universe will give you more things to be grateful for.
• 28:43
  That's just, how it works, so.
• 28:47
  Wonderful.
• 28:49
  Love it.
• 28:51
  So, but anyway, so you've got your books.
• 28:54
  Tell us what else do you do?
• 28:56
  Tell us about that.
• 28:58
  what else do I do?
• 28:59
  I do a number of thing.
• 29:00
  what else do I do?
• 29:00
  Let's see.
• 29:01
  I, well, I'm a writer, so this is- Okay the main thing.
• 29:04
  I've been working on my publishing business, and on the fiction and the nonfiction side.
• 29:09
  I've got six books for sale, and so I'm- Nice sort of a one-man band.
• 29:12
  I'm doing the, indie publishing thing, and that's, there's a lot of work behind that.
• 29:16
  maintaining the website, doing outreaches and these kinds of things.
• 29:20
  I'm also a teacher.
• 29:22
  I teach English, I teach drums, and I'm also a professional drummer.
• 29:25
  I did a bunch of- Oh coaching clinics in Indonesia last year, which was a whole lot of fun.
• 29:29
  And so y- if you go on my Instagram, you'll see a lot of that side of things.
• 29:33
  So it's, it's kind of a multifaceted life right now.
• 29:37
  Sounds amazing.
• 29:38
  Mm and you said you have six books and probably will have 10 by the end of the year, or 27.
• 29:44
  there'll be two more by the end of the year- Nice actually.
• 29:46
  I've got a new, I have got a follow-up to Wounded Angels coming out, the second Inner Child book, which is called Inner Child Unleashed.
• 29:52
  Okay.
• 29:53
  there's, and there's also a sci-fi epic coming out soon.
• 29:55
  So yeah- by the end of the year I'll have eight, hopefully, if I can get that all done, yeah.
• 29:59
  I'm really curious to see how you blended in the sci-fi with the inner child type psychology t- I'm really intrigued with that.
• 30:07
  It's melding more and more.
• 30:08
  So I've gotta check that out.
• 30:08
  Yeah.
• 30:09
  It's definitely- Absolutely melding more and more, so yeah.
• 30:11
  And if people wanna work with you, find out more about you, where do they go?
• 30:14
  What's the best place?
• 30:16
  My website, daviddeanhaskell.com, and, the, the middle name is spelled with an E, as we were talking about that before the, the recording.
• 30:24
  And, it's, yeah, daviddeanhaskell.com.
• 30:26
  I go by my full name for a reason, actually.
• 30:28
  There's another writer out there, a, a biologist da- named David Haskell, and he's a Pulitzer Prize winner and whatnot, so, if you Google David Haskell, you won't find me.
• 30:36
  But if you Google David Dean Haskell, I come right up, so- Okay that's the easiest way to find me.
• 30:40
  Yep.
• 30:41
  Yep.
• 30:41
  Perfect, and I will put that in the show notes.
• 30:43
  If anybody's driving, you don't have to write it down.
• 30:45
  It'll be in there to click, clickable link so you can get right to it and check out all of his books and everything.
• 30:50
  Thank you so much for coming on, first of all.
• 30:53
  But you are not off the hook- Thank you because you have so much wisdom for people, and you've had so many experiences.
• 30:58
  So if you had to give the listeners one big general idea or words of wisdom, what would it be today?
• 31:05
  Mm-hmm.
• 31:06
  Don't give up on yourself.
• 31:09
  Don't give up on yourself.
• 31:10
  That's, you're worth it.
• 31:11
  It's, and this is, this sounds cheesy maybe, but it's, these things, again, I say if you think about it logically like that, like if you look back and you hate the kid that you were when you were 11,
• 31:21
  think about if you were met another 11-year-old who was, a similar kid, would you hate them?
• 31:27
  So logically speaking, it doesn't make sense.
• 31:28
  So okay, well then let's get to the bottom of why this doesn't make sense, And there's trauma there, there's, there's, there's pain there, there's, harm there, wounds.
• 31:36
  So yeah, don't give up on yourself.
• 31:38
  It's worth looking into and, and you can get better.
• 31:41
  If I could get better, anyone could.
• 31:43
  Mm.
• 31:44
  Well, you look like you're doing great, so kudos to you.
• 31:48
  Thank you.
• 31:48
  Thank you so much.
• 31:48
  Long journey, and it's always a journey, but it'll- Mm-hmm it's definitely every step forward that you take is so worth it.
• 31:56
  So, so worth it.
• 31:57
  Amazing.
• 31:57
  Thank you so much, Jenny.
• 31:58
  So thank you again.
• 31:59
  This was amazing.
• 31:59
  Yeah.
• 32:00
  Thank you again for coming on.
• 32:01
  And for everybody else out there listening, you heard him.
• 32:03
  Do not give up on yourself.
• 32:05
  Know that you are worthy.
• 32:06
  You are absolutely amazing.
• 32:07
  You are loved.
• 32:08
  You are God's child, and you are meant to be here.
• 32:11
  And you're also deserving of whatever good things you want.
• 32:16
  So whatever you gotta do, whatever help you need, whatever support you need, find the people.
• 32:21
  They're out there.
• 32:22
  I'm out here.
• 32:23
  David's out here.
• 32:24
  And, and come find the support, and come get the support, and know that, again, you are so loved.
• 32:30
  And you all have a blessed week, and we will see you back.
• 32:33
  Bye.