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From Rock Bottom to Redemption: The Maggie Young Story · Nightmare Success In and Out

0:01
What happens when your worst fear becomes your reality?
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Hi, I'm Brent Cassidy, Welcome to the Nightmare Success In and
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Out podcast where we explore how to overcome your fears and
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nightmares to set yourself. Free we're going to be.
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Exploring this topic with guys that was in Leavenworth with and
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others who survived their own nightmare.
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These stories can be inspiring, sometimes sad.
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There's some humor. Hopefully you can come away with
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a nugget of something that'll help you knock down some of the
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prisons you built up in your own mind.
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Welcome. Back time our success in and
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out. Listeners, this is where you
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come for what happens when your worst year becomes your reality.
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How do you adapt, survive, overcome?
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Set yourself free folks. Don't forget to follow the show.
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Subscribe, share, like it up, make comments.
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It all helps the show. I I've got a great guest today
0:54
that I've been really excited to interview.
0:57
We had a great conversation on the phone.
1:00
Name's Maggie Young. She's the chief recovery officer
1:03
for liberation programs. And you know the great thing
1:07
about Maggie Young? She's got an incredible story, a
1:10
transformation story. And I want to give a shout out
1:14
to Charlie Grady, who actually connected Maggie and me.
1:20
Charlie has been on the show. He he's got an incredible story.
1:23
He was he's a movie actor. He just retired from the FBI
1:27
after 20 plus years. But he's got a great program.
1:31
We got a couple programs that he works on one's hang time at her
1:35
time. And then he's got the Hall of
1:37
Change. And that's one of the things
1:40
that Maggie Young is a part of. And the Hall of Change is one of
1:45
the things I would like for us to see that it spreads out all
1:47
across the nation with Charlie, but it's in Connecticut.
1:51
They take the 8 counties in Connecticut and those people
1:55
who've been identified by an eclectic group of people of that
2:03
that choose people who have through reentry, really created
2:08
and become something out of the nightmare that they've been in.
2:11
And Maggie was one of those people.
2:13
And I think she was the the first of the 8.
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Are you the Grade 8 Maggie of? 2nd I'm the second cohort. 2nd
2:19
cohort OK. And the, the, it's a great thing
2:24
because these people actually not just get recognized, they
2:28
get in and they talk to people who are becoming new Cos in
2:33
prisons and cadets and police officers in all kinds of
2:36
different places where they speak to make people know that
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they're not a number, they're a person.
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And, and to get more of a familiar, familiar feel to who
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these people are that have been put through this process.
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And I love everything about that.
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And Maggie's got such an incredible story of, but one of
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the things I thought was really interesting was is she, she was
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in and out of jail or prison for 10-15 years.
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It was all related to drugs and being an addict.
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And, and that involves stealing and the other things that to, to
3:12
support her habit. I thought it was really
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interesting because I, Maggie and I've had a couple of
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conversations and all I felt like because she's very up and,
3:21
and with it and, and felt I felt so good after I talked to her.
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And then I, I, I was listening to one of her podcasts where she
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said that when she was talking to someone in recovery class in
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prison, she said that she had never been happy.
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And I thought, wow, that's such a deep, deep comment from
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somebody who is the chief recovery officer at a place
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where at liberations program. She was also a client about 33
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years ago. And I want to say this is a
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special day for Maggie because 33 years is her anniversary
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today, February 6th. And when we were talking on the
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phone, we were talking about, you know, dates and times.
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She said, I said we'll bit up February 6th.
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She said February 6th would be great because that's the 33rd
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anniversary for recovery. And I, well, of course, because
4:10
huge part of the story. I can't wait to jump into all
4:13
this with Maggie. I first want to recognize our
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deserve Autoplasdirect tell them Brent from nightmare success
4:54
sent you welcome in Maggie Young.
4:57
How are you? Thank.
4:58
You. I'm well, happy Thursday, Brent.
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Happy Thursday. So Maggie, first of all, I'm so
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happy that Charlie was able to connect you and me together.
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And I love, I absolutely love stories where somebody goes
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through their own life nightmare and they walk through it and
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they come out and they use that experience to help other people.
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And and that's what you've been able to do as, as the chief
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recovery officer. It's a full circle cycle of
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where you started to where you are now, which and, and the
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other great thing about it too, Maggie, is this thing goes this,
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this show goes into 1100 prisons across the United States.
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And I always loved, you know, these type of stories where
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people can say, oh, well, Maggie Young's, she's made it.
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She's made it on the other side because re entry is really tough
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and a lot of people on the inside think, I don't know if
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I'm ever going to make it work. And it's a great story when
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people do. Maggie, I know your story.
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You were you were a child that grew up in the 50s and it was in
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Alabama. And I was curious, you know, in
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your background story, what, what would that have been like
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in the 50s, growing up in that world in Alabama, being in a
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black family, things were still dicey with everything that was
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going on. I wonder like how does a child
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deal with that? So I think the one of the things
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that is really could describe it really well is that I was taught
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silence and secrecy. So through it all, the being a
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child in Alabama during slavery times, my, my, my grandfather
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was a sharecropper. And you know, there was just
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really, I remember being at the age of 2 living with my mom and
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my dad and thinking to myself, who are these people?
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And when do I get to where I'm supposed to fit?
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Like I just never felt like I quite fit in and to have that
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thought at 2 later I realized like that is not a normal
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thought to be having at the age of 2.
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And so at the age of five, my mom left Alabama, moved to
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Connecticut to do a sleep in job and she was taking care of two
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white kids while the the she slept in and, and, and she did
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that work. And so I and my my siblings
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moved in with my grandmother and my grandfather.
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And my grandmother and grandfather had two bedrooms, 3
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bedrooms, theirs and two other bedrooms.
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And so there was myself and my cousins.
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And so nine of us stayed in one bedroom, slept in one bed
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throughout that time. Wow.
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And what was really very much scary was this sound of what was
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happening every night. And so there we were in this Hut
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where we lived in that my grandfather and my and my uncles
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had built with a tin roof. You know, one of the things that
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was really memorable was I loved hearing the rain because I could
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sleep when it was raining and hidden on the tent.
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But what I would hear more times than not was the when when there
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would be the Ku Klux Klan would come through and I could hear
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the hoices and I could hear them kind of just galloping through.
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And the sound that I would hear would be throw, throw.
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And those were the times that they would then throw flames.
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And I never knew what that meant.
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And so the way I grew up was that children were to be seen
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and not heard. So I couldn't ask any questions.
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Had to be had to be incredibly scary though, Maggie.
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Right. There's silence tones in there
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and the feeling or so I learned how to be quiet, to be still and
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to actually live as though I wasn't breathing.
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So it was just that whole thing. And so it was always very scary
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just kind of living there. And my my grandparents and the
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adults in the house would always have these hushed conversations.
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And I can even feel it right now, just how it was that my
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heart would palpitate because I never knew when it was going to
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be our house that the flame was thrown onto.
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Well, the other thing about that is though, I mean, you said that
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you felt like at an early age that you never fit in and you
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were surrounded with a lot of family.
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Was there a reason why you didn't feel like all those
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people around you that you didn't fit in?
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I, I think it really, really had to do with the fact for, you
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know, just in retrospect, it had to do with the fact of kind of
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there was no real conversations or communication around.
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And I didn't feel like, so there was at the time, there was
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always this, this paper bag kind of comparison and so
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complexions, right? And so everyone in my family
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were except for, you know, a couple of us were lighter than
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everyone else. And so that was what was being
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used to determine whether a person was actually identified
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as a house *** or *** And so all of this is really a part of kind
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of conversations that I'm hearing, but not conversations
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I'm a part of. So, and I think that for me that
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it really was another way of me trying to escape the pain and
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the fear of what was happening, of not being able.
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I don't think I want it to fit in because it just felt too
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scary to be a part of all of that.
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And not knowing anything and then knowing that, you know, I
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can't really ask any questions. And so I lived in Alabama until
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I was 10 1/2. When I moved to Connecticut in
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67, my mom had she had come back to get myself and my two younger
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brothers and brought us to Connecticut.
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And so the culture shock of that.
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So my grandfather, you know, I'd watch my grandfather and
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everyone who actually was over like I was too young to to work
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the fields. So I didn't pick cotton, but my
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job was to go out and we would pick up plums and we would have
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to feed the animals and we would, you know, pluck corn and
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we would have to feed the chickens.
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So I still we worked on the farm and we did that.
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And, and so it was just really just the whole thing around kind
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of, I really just, I didn't know.
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And I went to school for a couple of years because I was
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too young to actually farm. And so I went to school and
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these little classrooms of, you know, the 10 or 12 of us who
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actually were in school, all of the classes happened right in
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that same classroom. And there was a, there was a
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school that was for colors and there was a school that was for
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the whites. And our school was the smallest
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that you could see. And it was just so everything
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was really just this separated, segregated whole process of kind
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of felt to me like everything felt like this is not where
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you're supposed to be. Right.
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And it had to be such a culture shock for you to go from Alabama
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to Connecticut. Was it so I come so I so now my
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mom has has always my grandmother, my mother.
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Did you know we come there are traditions of just sewing right
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hand sewing. And again, we're very poor.
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So we're living with what we have hand me down clothing.
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My mom would sew everything and you know, she would maybe take a
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shirt and RIP that apart and make a skirt that we needed for
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church and things of that sort. And so I come into Connecticut
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and I go into school and this is my first fight, right?
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I go into school and I had not seen a sandbox before.
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I didn't know anything about that.
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So I go into school and I'm wearing my handmade skirt and
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blouse that I'm wearing, and there are these kids with the
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lace on their socks and these fancy dresses and fancy things.
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And I remember this kid said to me, you're poor.
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And it didn't faze me because I didn't know what that meant.
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So when I went home, I said to mom, I said some kids said that
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we're poor. What does that mean?
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She said, you're rich in love. And that was the extent of what
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she said about that. I took that as saying that this
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kid had said something about me that really should not have been
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said. So I went back to school and the
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next day I had my first bite in the sandbox.
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So, so you just took that on as OK, he was not going to take
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that laying down. Right, right.
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And so that was my first fight. And so the but it was really
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difficult because of the fact that everything was different in
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the classroom. So we were we were mixed, blacks
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and whites were in the classroom together.
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We were on the playground together.
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We had recess. And you know, there was in
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Alabama we had, there were, they were always very thin books
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where they were actually written and you could just write your
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answers right in the books. And we came in and we had these
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textbook sizes and things of that sort.
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And it was very difficult for me.
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Just I remember feeling the anxiety in my gut every morning
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when I had to go to school because then this kicked it up
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to another level. Now I really feel like that I'm
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not fitting in because now I'm in this whole new place.
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And you're acting out and getting into fights and what,
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what is your mom thinking when this is happening, that she's
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brought the kids up and Maggie's getting into fights at school?
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Yeah. And so mom is working two jobs
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and so I, you know, I'm at home. And so when they when they at
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the time, of course, you know, you have to bring, you have to
15:18
there was no computer and it was not like the, the phones and all
15:21
of that stuff. So I had to bring the Note home.
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And so the note never got to mom.
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And by the time that mom found out that I had had a fight, then
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I was punished probably for about a month or so.
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I couldn't go out to play when I came home because the rule was
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you get home, you change your clothes, you have your snack,
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you go out and before the street lights come on, you need to be
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in the house. You take your bath and you get
15:44
ready for that. So as you progress through
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middle school, then high school did, did you feel like you fit
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in more with with the new world of where you were at?
15:55
You know, through, through probably up until at least a
16:00
junior in high school, I still was kind of watching as though
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they were living life and I was kind of hanging out seeing how
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they lived life, OK. And, you know, I, I some of it
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through some of the work, I realized that some of that
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really had to do with, you know, I had some sexual trauma at the
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age of 5 right in the home, right?
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So my uncle, who felt like an adult to me at the time, who I
16:25
thought I was an adult, I realized about six years later
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when I'd gone to my grandmother's gravesite, that
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like he was actually 13 when he raped me.
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And so I, you know, there I am starting off where I don't feel
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like I fit in. And then now at the age of five,
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this happens. I really don't fit in because
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who is this person? No one is doing anything to help
16:49
me, you know? And then so there was all of
16:51
that stuff. And so now I go.
16:54
And you're not talking to anybody about that, I'm
16:56
assuming? Well, I can't because I'm a kid,
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right? The rule is.
17:00
It's silence. That's the rule, that is what's
17:03
been said, and that's what I've learned.
17:06
All of it is silence. And somewhere in there there
17:08
must be something I did for this to happen because I even took on
17:13
some ownership for, you know, when, when the KKK was riding by
17:17
the house and the whole bit. Maybe if I'm better, maybe if I
17:20
do good, my dad would fight my mom.
17:22
So maybe if I get a better grade in school or maybe if so at an
17:27
early age, I I where did I learn that?
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But yeah, that was how I kind of operated.
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And so so I continued to feel like I didn't fit in in that
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everyone else's life. And so that's where that whole
17:42
happiness thing comes from, because I was seeing what I
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thought happy was in other people's life.
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You were seeing it and not in yours.
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And and I knew how I felt inside, so that emptiness inside
17:54
of me didn't match for me what happiness was.
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So was that because I know that when you when you first got into
18:03
drinking and that you didn't really like it because a lot of
18:07
people say with what you're talking about Maggie, that's
18:10
it's an escape, you know, to feel like you're part of or to
18:14
feel like you're part of the the in Group.
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But I didn't get that from your background store.
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I didn't get that as because the first time, I think you were a
18:23
junior senior in high school and you had a drink and you didn't
18:26
like it and you didn't go back to it.
18:28
So it wasn't that you were drinking to escape or the
18:32
things. So how did all that work?
18:35
And you know, it did I really it's it's so my dad was a
18:40
drinker and so I never knew again.
18:44
So here I am as this kid in Alabama right now.
18:49
There has been the separation of my mom and dad.
18:51
So this is another kind of transition that is like, wait,
18:54
did I do something? What is happening here?
18:56
Now? I'm at my grandparents, right?
18:59
And there's still there's nothing.
19:00
There's no communication, no talking or anything.
19:02
And the kids listen. You just know that you have to
19:04
go to Sunday school, Bible study, church school.
19:08
And you don't say anything and you don't ask any questions,
19:10
right with this this whole life. But I had watched my dad where
19:16
my mom was really introverted. You know, she was doing
19:21
everything that needed to happen in the whole bit.
19:22
And my dad would come home And I never knew whether dad was going
19:26
to come home and he was going to be happy to see us.
19:29
And he was going to actually still have some type of a
19:33
conflict with my mom, right? Whether it was the food was not
19:37
ready or he didn't like what it was that was cooked or whatever,
19:41
but he still might be happy and drunk that day.
19:44
Or whether he was coming in and he was coming in and he was
19:48
going to fight her as soon as he got in.
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And I would take these moments and I would hide.
19:53
We had this kitchen table and that invisible piece of me
19:57
feeling like I could actually hide behind the leg of a table
20:01
was what I would do. I would just go and just try to
20:04
be there. And when I went back to Alabama
20:07
as a teenager and saw the size of that table, I was like.
20:10
Wow, that would be impossible for any person to hide behind.
20:17
But that was how I was kind of living through that.
20:19
So to answer your question around the fitting in and the
20:23
reason why I drank, I drank that my, I believe that I didn't
20:28
drink until I tried it because I wanted to make sure I did not
20:33
end up like that right that. Was your example.
20:36
I and I associated that drinking with, you know, these two
20:41
extremes. And so I didn't want to.
20:44
So, so there was that. Then I go to school and I'm
20:47
thinking again, I'm taking ownership and I think that I am
20:50
the one as a kid that I determined what happens in my
20:54
mom's life. So mom's working two jobs, she's
20:56
working hard. I got to be good so that she
20:58
nothing bad happens in her life. I got to make sure she doesn't
21:02
have to come to the school because when she was in school
21:04
it wasn't good. So I have to make sure that I am
21:08
actually making sure that she doesn't have to come to the
21:10
school for any reason. And so I again, even throughout
21:14
school, throughout. So in middle school, I got a job
21:19
in the cafeteria and still trying to find a place where it
21:23
is that I feel like I fit, you know, and I, I had friends, you
21:27
know, associates and things of that sort, but I never quite
21:34
identified who I was and what I was bringing or what I wanted to
21:40
bring to a friendship. So there was that whole piece of
21:44
it. So my sister, my sister Velma,
21:47
who passed in 2020, was like my best friend.
21:50
She we're all two years apart in my, in, in my family.
21:53
And then there's my, my younger brother who's 10 years, There's
21:56
a 10 year difference there. And, and so throughout school
22:01
there were, we moved when we finally moved from my mother's
22:05
friend's house to the South end of Stanford, which is really
22:08
drug infested in the whole bit. But you know, I, I had some
22:11
friends who were going to the same school as me and the whole
22:14
bit mom was very clear. You see that person who's
22:17
standing on the street, sleeping, standing up, sleeping.
22:20
You don't want to be around those type people.
22:22
You don't want to do that. I could not stop myself after
22:27
homework looking out the window because I was so interested in
22:31
how they could possibly do that. And I didn't know there was any
22:34
connection to that and the drug use at all.
22:37
But it was just really just just doing that.
22:40
My friends started to hang out in the courtyard.
22:44
They started to smoke pot, you know, they started to go out for
22:47
drinks and things of that sort. Not interested, not interested.
22:52
And so it was another way I think of me kind of, you know,
22:56
disconnecting myself that whole, you know, that I'm just not
23:00
fitting into this whole thing. And you know, they're, they're,
23:06
when I, when I did make my decision for college, I think
23:11
there was some thought in there around the fact that if I move
23:16
away from the East Coast where mom is around mom, I can be
23:22
freer to be different and I don't have to worry about
23:24
disappointing mom. Yeah.
23:27
And so I went to school in Atlanta, right?
23:30
And they were calling it Little New York.
23:31
So I was like, OK, that would have enough of kind of like the
23:35
same type of interest and things of that sort.
23:38
And that was where I I drank, you know, there was.
23:43
I did when when all this was going on and you went to
23:46
college, did you do pretty well in school?
23:48
Because I know you got decent jobs.
23:50
So I. Yeah, so I, I, you know, I did
23:52
pretty so I thought I was doing better than I was doing right.
23:55
So, but I did OK. I passed all of my, all of my
23:59
classes. I passed all of my grades.
24:01
I did that, you know, and then there was like, my interest was
24:05
really in home economics, right? So I loved sewing.
24:08
I picked that up for my mom and done that.
24:10
And so there were the, the, the classes that I loved and, and,
24:14
and it really came from really, it depended on who the teacher
24:18
was, how well I did in the class, right?
24:21
And, and so, so I did that and, and, and it was through my, my
24:29
good jobs, I think were really through knowing people.
24:34
So my first job was, was I was working.
24:37
My first job was the neighborhood youth corps, which
24:40
was like a camp, a summer camp. And so there was my brother who
24:45
actually, it was one of the dignitaries in town knew someone
24:50
who knew someone. And one of the girl, one of his
24:53
kids was a friend of mine. And so he actually was the one
24:55
who connected me to that job. I got that job.
24:58
And I've always been very good with sustainability and jobs
25:02
because once you give me an opportunity, I'm going to prove
25:05
that I could do this job. And so I, you know, so I, so I,
25:09
I, I, I got that job, I stayed on that job.
25:13
And then from there, I went from there and I got a job at, at our
25:18
local radio station. And that's where my drug use
25:24
like it was the grounds for, I mean.
25:26
Perfect breeding ground for drugs that's.
25:30
Perfect. Yeah, that's.
25:31
Perfect. I mean, and that was the first
25:34
time that I really enjoyed going to work because, you know, I
25:37
would go to work and, you know, I would drink with the salesman
25:40
and then with the newsmen and we would do cocaine and then like,
25:43
you know, with the program manager, like we would smoke.
25:45
So I I had this relationship with everyone who actually was
25:50
there. So Maggie, it's interesting from
25:53
a lot of different angles, because here you are as a kid
25:58
who has a dad that you you don't want to be that.
26:02
And then you've got a mom that you're you're not wanting to
26:05
disappoint. And then you go to Atlanta and
26:06
it's kind of like I'm free. And you don't just start
26:11
drinking. You get into, you know, cocaine
26:14
free basing. What did you feel like that you
26:18
were living on the wild side? Did you feel like Maggie's been
26:22
cut loose? And, and, or did you feel like,
26:25
oh, this is just something I'm doing for right now, It's not a
26:28
big deal? How?
26:29
How did that all that factor into your world?
26:32
Right. So initially it really just felt
26:34
like because for my first two semesters, I was like, I was
26:38
still going out and, you know, hanging out with my roommates
26:41
and the whole bit and and you know, I was like, I, I don't,
26:45
I'm not drinking. I was the only one who was
26:47
within the group who was not drinking, right?
26:49
And so, you know, we were double dating and going out and things
26:52
of that. So I'm not drinking.
26:53
And I remember sitting at this bar on Deerfield Rd. in in, in
26:57
Atlanta and you know, people had been saying, oh, try this at the
27:02
time, wine coolers. Well, and I was like, didn't
27:05
like it because of the sweetness.
27:06
Still didn't like it. Oh, try this, then this won't
27:09
you, It won't burn as much. Try this.
27:11
It won't be as sweet. And I remember this guy came and
27:14
he said to me, he's like, oh, I was just like that.
27:16
He said, I didn't like the burn of the taste.
27:18
He said, and So what I he said, try a martini and was like, no,
27:21
I don't, you know, I don't, I don't want to try that either.
27:24
He's like, but it has the salt and it's going to help.
27:27
And then he was the same one who came and he said to me, he said,
27:29
you know what, I think I have the answer for you.
27:31
He said try a shot, He said, because that's what I did.
27:34
I started to try a shot, he said.
27:36
And you get it down really quickly.
27:38
The burn is quick and the whole bit and you and you get the
27:41
impact of it. And remember taking that shot.
27:44
And I tell you, Brett, it was not that I missed the burn nor
27:50
the taste. It was how quickly I felt the
27:54
warmth in my body and how at that moment I felt like the wild
28:00
side could actually express whatever without any concern for
28:05
anyone. That was the biggest piece,
28:08
right? Well, that is a big piece
28:10
because up until this time when you're living your life, you're
28:14
living with so many secrets and so much silence and you're not
28:17
sure. And this I mean, I, as you
28:21
explained, I can understand. This was a release for you.
28:26
Did you feel when did it? Did you ever feel like in that
28:30
early stages that you could get addicted?
28:33
There was never a thought. And so it was the whole thing.
28:36
So this piece happened, right? And there was like the shots.
28:40
And so I'm still in school, so I'm still going to classes.
28:43
So I'm still doing OK. I'm still going home on breaks.
28:47
So my mom is still seeing me. She's still proud.
28:49
I'm still, you know, all of that is still happening until my
28:52
second year in college. I'm no longer going home on
28:55
breaks. Now my weekend has started on
28:58
Thursdays instead of Fridays. It is going through Mondays.
29:01
I'm missing classes. You know, I'm failing classes.
29:04
All of that is happening. But I never had the thought, oh,
29:09
alcohol is a problem here. And then I was introduced to
29:12
three days and this same guy who was a guy who actually was
29:18
dating my, my roommate has said to me, I know you don't really
29:23
care for the alcohol because you know, once you kind of take a
29:25
couple of shots, you're done for the evening or whatever the case
29:27
may be. He's like, this is something
29:29
where you know what, you don't have to worry about the tase.
29:31
You don't have to worry about like the burn or any of that.
29:34
Just try this. And I remember sitting in the
29:37
basement, my roommate was actually dating a famous
29:41
basketball player who played with the, with the, the Hawks.
29:45
And, and they had, I mean, they had this huge pipe with all of
29:50
these, kind of like the hookah type, but it was just, and so I
29:54
can imagine that I walked in there and my eyes went like, Oh
29:59
my God. And so that was when I was
30:03
introduced to it. And I remember being told, OK,
30:06
here, just try this, right? You're not going to try much.
30:09
You just try it and you just take one smooth pull from it and
30:16
just see what happens. And that one smooth pull was
30:22
what I chased. It became your chase because I
30:27
and I know that you know, you, you went on, you moved back, you
30:31
got a job. I think you were at the
30:34
department store and and some other things, but you actually
30:39
to support yourself began stealing.
30:43
How did how did you rationalize what was going on then?
30:46
Did you, did you know that this was this was right on the edge
30:51
that you could get in trouble for this?
30:53
Did you? What would what?
30:55
What was going through your mind?
30:56
Right. So The thing is, is that I think
30:58
what was going through my mind was the fact that because I
31:01
don't like it, I'm not going to get addicted.
31:04
I'm not going to become that person who I saw out of the
31:07
window when I was living on the South End, right?
31:10
I'm not going to become that person.
31:12
I'm still going to work, right? I graduated.
31:16
Functioning. Right, I graduated from college,
31:19
right? I have a job.
31:21
I have a job at. So the the.
31:23
You're rationalizing all this out.
31:25
Is it being well, you're functioning, you're it's
31:27
everything's normal, OK. Exactly.
31:29
Every everything is normal. Never once did I have a thought
31:32
that I would become the person who was actually standing
31:35
outside and that and there was never any thought about, oh,
31:38
this is like addiction. This is.
31:40
Did did the people around you know it?
31:43
If it not, not at the time, Yeah, not at the time.
31:46
And if they did, they weren't saying anything, right?
31:49
So no one was saying anything. So I was, it was, it was for me,
31:53
it was so different in the sense that it was that, you know, I
31:56
wasn't around people so that they would kind of who cared
32:00
enough about me to be able to say, listen, something is
32:03
changing in you. So we need to kind of look at
32:05
that, right? Because what I did was I shifted
32:08
from, you know, one of the things that I often say when I
32:11
tell my story is the fact that, you know, I didn't really have
32:14
anyone tell me anything about going into a 12 step program,
32:18
going into treatment or anything.
32:20
And no one really talked. We didn't talk about, I only
32:23
talked about being just as impacted when I was impacted
32:27
when I was in prison. I talked about it there, right?
32:30
And I think a lot of times I use that time to say, let me find
32:34
out if there's anyone else here who has done something that I
32:37
haven't done and I'll try that when I get back out.
32:39
So I was using that for that piece of it, looking at it that
32:42
way, but there was not anyone where I was that was really
32:47
saying, oh, we should probably think about, you know, getting
32:52
better. We should probably think about
32:53
stopping. If I was with some a group of
32:56
people, we all were on probation and we're violating it.
33:00
We all were actually running from the police and had a
33:02
warrant out for us. We all were right out in the
33:05
park and we're just smoking and really was living under housed
33:09
or homeless. This guy who I was living with
33:12
really just became an opportunity for me to go to at
33:16
times when I know he was getting paid and he would let me come in
33:19
and he would give me food and I would go to his job at times.
33:23
And I can imagine I looked a wreck.
33:26
And he would hand me a sandwich and hand me $20.
33:29
And it was all of that. And so I made sure I stayed away
33:32
from as far away from my mom as possible because I knew it would
33:36
kill her to see what I was doing to my life.
33:40
But never I thought about, oh, this is addiction.
33:43
I probably should do something. So it was only through the the
33:48
justice system that, you know, I ended up getting to a place of
33:52
really being in being in treatment and then actually
33:57
getting into recovery. So I mean you went through a
34:00
long period of time there of going in and out.
34:02
You know, we talked about it was like 10-15 years, you had that
34:05
three-year stint. Is that where you came to terms
34:10
with yourself? Is that is that the time when
34:12
that happened? It it actually isn't.
34:16
No, it isn't. You know what I used that time
34:20
when I was in there for that three years because, you know,
34:23
we were wearing that as a badge of honor.
34:28
Did that bid that's done learned while I was there that I could
34:33
try this and try that because this person told me that they
34:36
had tried this and tried that. And so, you know, I did that and
34:42
that was the second to the last time that I was inside.
34:46
And the last time was the fact that I had I had gotten arrested
34:51
because of the fact that I was trying to break into a bar with
34:56
someone else because of the fact that we had ran out of drugs.
35:00
And we decided that it was this bright idea, yes, let's just go
35:03
break the rock bar and get a cash register.
35:07
And so I tried, you know, I tried that.
35:08
So I got arrested for that and I went in and there is when they
35:14
offered the alternative and it was my public defender who said
35:18
to me, you deserve better. Because year after year I would
35:23
get the same public defender and I would get a promise to appear
35:29
or I would get a plea or I would get, you know, and I would get
35:32
something. And I'd gone to liberation for
35:35
outpatient, intensive outpatient things and none of it worked.
35:39
You know, I would show up partial days or I wouldn't show
35:42
up at all and things of that sort.
35:44
And I remember the public defender saying, listen, if you
35:47
get a plea to go into treatment, go into treatment because you
35:51
deserve better. You deserve better.
35:54
And I still went in because of the fact I didn't want to take
35:57
the long trip from Niantic. I didn't go in because I wanted
36:00
to recover or get better. That was not what what what what
36:03
I was thinking about because and I was clueless as to how I was
36:08
causing pain not only to myself but to my entire family.
36:13
To my. Community to everybody around me
36:16
and everybody was worried about me, but I made sure that I use
36:20
that disconnect of where I had learned so well how to, you
36:25
know, present as though I don't fit any place so that people
36:28
didn't say anything to me. And so I was using that so well
36:32
that people were not saying anything to me.
36:34
So I would not be around anyone who cared anything about me,
36:38
only the people who actually smoking along with me and we
36:41
weren't having conversations about getting better.
36:44
Right, you were. You were going for the next
36:46
high. That's it.
36:48
I want to take a break here because when we come back, I
36:50
want to go into how your turn happened and how you became who
36:57
you are now, because I think it's pretty remarkable.
37:01
I want to recognize a lot of people don't like how they look
37:05
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38:08
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That's prisonist.org. Start here.
38:31
So, Maggie, you're doing all this.
38:34
You're doing it just because people are telling you, hey, if
38:36
you go here, this will be easier.
38:38
And you're not really committed to making anything happen except
38:43
to get to the next step. And everybody here around is
38:46
what you're doing what you're doing, and you're not seeing how
38:48
it's affecting everybody else. So how does it happen?
38:54
So I, I think the, the, so again, the, the, the public
39:02
defender saying what she said, you know, there was the dare
39:04
from this gentleman who, you know, I had used as this buffer
39:09
who said you're not going to do anything.
39:11
And he was really the only one who was left who was still kind
39:16
of allowing me to kind of, you know, be as nutty as I was and
39:20
do all I was doing. And he was acting as though,
39:22
like, you know, it wasn't happening, which is what I was
39:25
looking for. And so now here he is.
39:29
And he is actually made a dare. And it was that dare that
39:32
actually got me into treatment. Now I have in the back of my
39:36
head also what my public defender has said to me.
39:40
And of course, I have an open, you know, an active case because
39:42
I always did. I was never free.
39:46
I was either on my way out of jail, on my way in jail, on
39:49
probation, on parole. Something was happening with the
39:53
criminal justice system. And so I and so he said that to
39:58
me that morning. And again, I called up my sister
40:01
who was working for liberation programs, and I said.
40:04
I'm ready to go into treatment. I'm ready to go inpatient.
40:07
She's like, OK, good. Then call them up.
40:10
I'm like, I'm calling you. She's like, no, call them up.
40:13
You do it. Yeah, exactly, exactly what I
40:16
needed, right, Because I continued to rely on someone
40:19
else all along. And so I asked him to give me a
40:23
ride. He gave me a ride down to
40:25
liberation. And I went in and, you know, it
40:30
wasn't just right then that I just, you know, I went into the
40:33
front door of liberation. I went out the back door because
40:37
I told him I need $50.00 because of the fact I have to pay them
40:41
for coming in. But of course, I, you know, I
40:43
had public insurance and they were taking insurance, but I
40:47
needed $50. I went in the front door.
40:48
I went out the back door. I crossed the fence.
40:50
I went up to the West side. I copped some drugs.
40:54
I came back down. I came back through the back
40:56
door, came back through. I sat for part of a screening
41:01
that I needed to do, went back to the car, told him I needed to
41:05
go back to the house to pack up everything that I needed because
41:08
they had said to me, we have a bed for you and you can come in
41:11
today. Because my sister had done some
41:13
work in the back, even though she didn't want me to know it,
41:16
she had already done the work that needed to be done.
41:19
And so I told him I had to go back and pack up some things,
41:23
right? And he said, why don't I just
41:25
bring them for you? I said no, I got to go back
41:27
home. So I go back home.
41:29
I locked myself in the bathroom and I smoked what I just copped
41:33
and I go in there and I finish up with that and somewhere
41:38
divine intervention kicked in and I put a couple of things in
41:41
the bag and I got back into the van and he drove me into
41:46
treatment. And I went inside and I remember
41:52
my sister came out and she hugged me and I walked around
41:56
and they had these steep two flights of steep red stairs.
42:02
And they opened the door. And I remember there was this
42:04
this guy who was standing, he was a counselor standing at the
42:08
top of the stairs. And he said, welcome to life.
42:14
And I'm thinking to myself, if I go up these stairs, I'm not
42:17
going to be able to come back down.
42:19
And so I stood there and I looked up for a while and I
42:23
finally got up the stairs and I went in and I remember there was
42:27
this huge teddy bear sitting in this office that they called the
42:30
Mgr. which is the manager's office.
42:34
And I remember thinking to myself, I wish I had like a
42:38
teddy bear or something. I just needed something to hold
42:42
or to hold me. And but I sat down because at
42:48
that moment I didn't want anyone to know how I was feeling
42:53
because I still needed to have this exterior of this tough guy,
42:57
right? And, and the whole process
43:00
started there. It started there.
43:03
But I didn't go into treatment, Brent, Even those moments right
43:07
there, the thing, the reason why I actually went in was because I
43:13
knew I was going to end up back in Niantic in the prison, right?
43:17
And I didn't want to take that long ride from Niantic back to
43:21
Stanford before I could use drugs again.
43:23
So there was never a thought that I'm going in here and I'm
43:26
going to get better and I'm going to stop using drugs.
43:29
I was trying to shorten the trip for when I left so that I can
43:33
get a good high. And that was it.
43:37
And I went in and I stayed for seven months and I still ended
43:40
up back in prison. What was that like after you'd
43:46
been in seven months and treatment to go back to prison?
43:49
It had to be different this time.
43:51
Very different. It was very different.
43:54
I, I, I can't say that at that point I was like, woo, I'm doing
43:57
recovery. I'm not going to.
44:01
But it it, it was different in, in, in the sense that so as
44:05
usual, I was offered drugs and I was able to turn those down,
44:09
right? That was a first, right?
44:14
And I was also in lock up 23 hours because I had an escape on
44:19
me because I had not shown up for parole or probation or any
44:22
of that. And then there was a girl in
44:24
there who actually, while I was actually who was in, who was my
44:28
roommate, and she actually hung herself right in.
44:31
I woke up to feet dangling by my bed.
44:33
Oh my gosh, Maggie, wait a minute, you were in lock up and
44:38
which? That's horrible all in itself.
44:41
23 hours a day, one hour out, you wake up and she's hung
44:46
herself. She's hung herself with her
44:48
sheet. Oh man.
44:50
She was my bunkmate. She was on the top bunk.
44:52
And all I remember is just the echoing of my screaming and, you
44:57
know, just around the whole thing.
44:59
And I, I, it was, it was, it was definitely the name of your
45:03
show. It was a nightmare for sure.
45:04
I I just can't imagine, you know, when you see something
45:08
like that. I we had something that's so far
45:12
removed from that, but it's still affected me.
45:13
When I was at Leavenworth, there was an older guy.
45:17
I say older, I'm 58 now. He was probably in his 60s at
45:20
the time, but he was very close to getting out.
45:25
He was very smart. He had a couple of boys, sons
45:29
that he was going. He was from California here he
45:31
was at Leavenworth in Kansas. But he got hassled a lot and he
45:37
got into a fight. These guys that were hassling,
45:39
they got thrown in to to the hole and I remember we got the
45:46
word that he'd hung himself and I think he only had like four or
45:50
five months until he got out and it, you know, there was this was
45:53
somebody that we were walking with.
45:54
I, I had just, you know, I, I had a five year sentence and I
45:57
just gotten to know some people. He was one of the people that
46:01
I've gotten to know within the first, you know, 12 weeks.
46:05
And I it's so like when somebody dies in prison, it's awful when
46:11
somebody dies, but to to that be their last place that they die.
46:15
This is so like, I don't even know where that's a feeling that
46:22
nobody should die in prison because it's the worst place
46:25
that you can die. And then somebody that takes
46:27
their life is that just shows you how low they were.
46:30
Exactly, exactly. Yeah, Yeah.
46:34
So, so those two things really, I think had some has some impact
46:40
in, in the, you know, I, what I did know was that I didn't want
46:44
to come back there. I, I didn't, I still did not
46:48
know yet how I was going to, you know, whether I was going to
46:53
recidivate and how I was going to do that and what re entry was
46:56
going to be like. Because all of these services
46:58
that exist today didn't exist back then.
47:01
You know, there was no one, there was not a hang time.
47:04
There was no one to meet us, you know, come into the prison and
47:07
talk and then go back. There was the Bible study and
47:11
the 12 step meetings were actually held off of campus all
47:16
the way over and you went there and you got searched when you
47:19
went in, you got searched when you came back, but you couldn't
47:22
really make the connections. You you were not allowed to.
47:26
Make I guess I should ask you, when you got out of the seven
47:29
months and went back to prison, how long did you, how long was
47:31
that stent for you at that point?
47:34
So I was that was about nine months.
47:36
OK. That was about nine months,
47:38
yeah. So.
47:41
And then the last time was actually the final time of being
47:44
there was after I was violated from treatment because of the
47:49
fact that I had the escape. And that was that was actually
47:52
all of my sentence was modified. And again, with the assistance
47:56
of my public defender, but also the 12 step supports where
48:00
individuals wrote letters and what you see, who you see today,
48:06
50% of that, I had actually become that person through
48:11
actually getting back to a different place and not having
48:13
drugs in my system and things of that sort.
48:16
And so there were people who were willing to stand behind me
48:18
and support me and just say, you know, hopefully she can come
48:23
out. I'm curious, Maggie, how or did
48:29
you start thinking about it through your own recovery that
48:33
you wanted to help people in recovery?
48:35
Like how did that come about for you?
48:37
So, so that was really, so I'm working this is, this is now I'm
48:44
in treatment and I'm working at a hotel and I'm doing night
48:48
audits and things of that sort. And so in this job, it was so
48:51
interesting because now I am seven months out of treatment,
48:55
right? And I'm working in this job and
48:56
I'm going back and forth to court.
48:57
So I haven't really, you know, I haven't been sentenced to go
49:01
back in as of yet and I'm still actually at a crossroads because
49:07
of the fact that I have access to hotel rooms and everyone who
49:11
has been selling drugs or using drugs and things of that sort,
49:14
you know, that's where we ended up was in hotels and, you know,
49:17
bagging up and packaging and doing that sort.
49:20
So now people are coming to this hotel and they're asking me to
49:24
actually open a door for them to be able to go in.
49:26
So I'm at this crossroads and I'm and, and, and you know, I'm
49:29
struggling to really do the right thing because this is my
49:32
job, but I'm really not so sold on like this job as opposed to
49:38
quick money yet. Like I, you know, I haven't made
49:41
that switch yet. So I'm being offered hundreds of
49:44
dollars to just open a room for a few hours for someone to go in
49:47
and, you know, bag up their drugs as opposed to, you know,
49:51
the $10.00 an hour that I'm making, you know, doing the
49:53
night audit and the whole bit. And I'm at this crossroads and a
49:57
lady came into the hotel and I remember her coming in.
50:01
She had a baby and she was, she was actually, she was
50:05
registering to come in. I was just, it was that early
50:08
that morning because I was getting off because I did the
50:10
overnight audits. And I was getting off and, and
50:13
she was talking about how she had seen something in the
50:16
parking lot. And this was the same guy who
50:18
had just come in and asked me to open a room.
50:20
And she was afraid because she thought she saw a gun.
50:23
She knows she saw a drug exchange and and so she was
50:29
sharing this with like the the, you know, the hotel assistant
50:33
and somewhere in me something said so you can be the part of
50:38
that or a part of that during treatment.
50:43
I had thought to myself, you know what my counselor was who
50:47
did, who did one of the trauma groups was so great with me and
50:52
kind of working through my own personal trauma and things of
50:55
that sort. And I was like, I kind of want
50:57
to do what she's doing, but I think I would rather work with
51:00
women or maybe I want to work with kids so that a child me,
51:05
but my five year old would have someone so they can have a voice
51:09
so that they could start to have something to say so that they
51:12
could use their voice so that they the secrets that I had to
51:15
hold that they don't, they're not left holding those things.
51:19
So I wasn't sure whether I wanted to work with women or
51:21
kids, but I knew I wanted to do some of that.
51:24
My sister is still working at liberation programs, right?
51:27
Calls me up and says, Hey, they're going to open a women
51:31
and children's program. I'm going to send you the press
51:34
release, right? Sends it over to me in the whole
51:37
bit. And I read it and, and I said,
51:41
OK, I'm just going to apply because I apply because it,
51:44
because now I feel like I need to get away from here because
51:47
I'm really not, I'm, I'm, I'm not strong enough to be able to
51:51
say no to the fast money. And I'm, and I'm justifying that
51:55
it's the fast money. It's not that I'm a part of this
51:59
whole process, right? And so I apply and I get a call
52:03
right away, get an interview, go in and you know, I, I get hired,
52:11
right? I get offered the job right on
52:12
the spot, come back to work and I'm going to, you know, write a
52:16
letter to give notice in the whole bit.
52:18
And I also received a call that I was pregnant.
52:23
So I'm like, so then I called back to let them know.
52:26
Listen, I just want to let you know that, you know, I just
52:28
found out that I'm pregnant. And she was like, you know what,
52:31
this lady Lucy, who's my mentor and she said, she said pregnancy
52:35
is not a disability. Do you want the job or not?
52:38
Great, got the job. And you know, and that was, you
52:42
know, that I started on June 13th, 1994 and have done like a
52:49
number of jobs there and every day the opportunity to, I feel
52:54
like that have being there for the kids and the adults.
52:59
Yeah, getting the opportunity to be able to do that.
53:02
Yeah, to me, every day just pays it forward for me.
53:06
Oh yeah, Maggie, because you had so much that you dealt with as a
53:09
kid. You walk through all the steps
53:13
of, of struggle as an, as a young adult and, and to be able
53:19
to find your purpose of, of truly being able to talk to
53:25
people kids about opening up because you weren't able to open
53:29
up, talk about how hard it is to, to stop the struggle of, of
53:35
the addiction and, and to move forward.
53:37
Those things are so impactful. It can change people's lives.
53:42
I I just can't imagine. I've got a daughter who my
53:45
youngest daughter, I got three daughters and she's a teacher.
53:50
And I think when I was going through the whole nightmarish
53:55
part of everything, she had some teachers that were really
53:59
helpful to her. And I think that's what drew her
54:03
to want to be a teacher. And I think, Maggie, what you're
54:05
doing giving back, you are paying it forward every day.
54:09
And what a great thing. Yeah.
54:14
And you know, there was one, there was also like while in
54:16
prison, right there there were. So the the last couple of times
54:22
while I was in prison, it it was different for me.
54:25
It was different in the sense that, you know, as opposed to me
54:28
always looking to find out, let me talk to someone who made who
54:32
I may not know, who may have done, you know, their activities
54:35
different than me so I can learn and practice that when I go out.
54:39
It really had gotten to a place where it was really about the
54:42
fact of looking at, Oh my God, like all of the pain that I've
54:48
been through, I've actually been a player in some of this pain,
54:53
right? So owning some of that, right.
54:55
And then being able to talk to. So being with some women in
55:00
there and talking to them about what it was that they were going
55:05
through. And to your point, Brent, women
55:08
who I didn't have a kid at the time, but those who actually who
55:12
were in prison. And I remember this woman saying
55:14
to me, I feel like that I have died since I'm in here.
55:19
So when you were talking about the gentleman who you were
55:21
talking about, he said my relationship with my kids does
55:25
not exist. I don't want them coming here
55:29
because I don't want them seeing me in here, right?
55:32
I feel like I've died. I have no room to do anything
55:37
that I'm doing. And she started to go to church
55:39
and things of that sort. But the prison walls, there's
55:42
something about the walls that is really takes away that whole
55:47
piece of kind of freedom and to be in there and to, to to really
55:51
try to build some community around being able to hear what
55:55
other women were going through. Yeah.
55:58
Which helped me to feel as though it's wasn't quite as bad
56:04
and looking at my sentence as opposed to others who actually
56:07
have life sentence and what can I do and how can I?
56:10
And then also staying in touch and trying to, you know, again
56:14
these days, being able to have a pen pal, being able to go back
56:18
in there, being able. So if for anyone who is actually
56:22
listening right from a prison setting in there, it really
56:28
starts off with you deserve better, you can do better.
56:35
And as much as we are trapped inside the wall when we're in
56:38
prison, we still have the freedom of our self to be able
56:42
to find a way to really just kind of be OK in that moment and
56:48
to do something different. That's a great message in a
56:53
typical day as the chief recovery officer.
56:56
Now what? What goes on with liberation
56:59
programs? So, so first of all, I get to
57:05
kind of connect with someone every day and, and, and I feel
57:09
like that the, the chief recovery officer really offers
57:13
me the opportunity to really talk recovery in every area of
57:17
our agency. And I oversee prevention, which
57:20
is really looking at, you know, how do we actually talk to and
57:24
educate individuals in the schools, in the community, in
57:28
the faith-based community, just as impacted, not just as
57:31
impacted in our inpatient programs, things of that sort,
57:34
right? To really just kind of talk
57:36
about, I feel like that my story is really my weapon.
57:40
And so I use that just to kind of, you know, making sure that
57:44
I'm using it because I think that this Pearl, if I want to
57:47
call it that, maybe something that someone could use not to
57:51
pat myself on the back. Because every day that I get up,
57:55
I still need to make the decision not to pick up a drug.
57:58
Even 33 years later, that is still a decision and it's still
58:02
work, right? And so I get to be around
58:06
someone. Yesterday, last night, you know,
58:09
I talked to a mom and her, her mother and her mother shared and
58:15
I felt so bad, right? I was like, Oh my God, that's
58:18
how I was stealing my mother's Peace of Mind.
58:20
Because you know what she said to me?
58:22
She said every time my daughter gets to this 30 day mark, this
58:27
is what happens. She finds reasons as to why it
58:31
is that. Sabotages it.
58:33
Exactly, exactly. And so I felt so bad for her and
58:36
she said she didn't use these words, but she pretty much said
58:39
that there are times that she has felt like a prison in her
58:42
own home when she when her when her daughter is there and she's
58:46
using and she doesn't know what to do.
58:48
And at the same time, the mom part of her is loving her and
58:52
doesn't want to put her on the street.
58:54
Right. And so the ability to do that,
58:58
the ability to connect with caregivers, with individuals,
59:02
with kids, you know, to actually say to a mom that you know what,
59:08
when they get to a point where they're starting to, there was
59:12
one of my spiritual advisors had said to me at one point, she
59:15
said, listen, she said, this is how you determine how you're
59:18
doing. She said if you start to feel
59:20
pain in your back or in your shoulders, she said you need to
59:24
then emotionally look and see whose things are you carrying as
59:27
opposed to your own, because you're built to carry yours.
59:32
So physical is the last indicator that something
59:34
emotional is happening. And so just really being able to
59:39
kind of frame that based on where they are and be able to
59:42
say to them, you have a voice, you can use it, just use it.
59:46
Just take a risk. Just take a risk.
59:49
And I had, you know, I had, there was a sheriff in when I
59:52
was in my last time who actually would, she would come and get me
59:56
and she would take me and she would allow me to call my mom.
59:59
I'll never forget her. I'll never forget.
1:00:03
Her Wow. You know, I always ask everybody
1:00:08
on the program because everybody's got their own story.
1:00:13
What do you think's your biggest take away, Maggie, through the
1:00:17
life that you've lived? I think, I think I would have to
1:00:31
say that everything that I've gone through was really divine
1:00:40
order because there's always someone that is my
1:00:47
responsibility to share something with.
1:00:54
That's, that's good and that's what you're doing and that's so
1:00:59
untactful and, and you know, it's, it's a game changer in a
1:01:03
lot of situations. And I, I, I would love to just
1:01:07
have a cloning machine baggy of you and we could just put you in
1:01:10
all these different States and then you could help all these
1:01:12
different people out because it's people like you that you're
1:01:17
the real deal. You know, they, they know when
1:01:20
you talk to them like you were talking last night with that mom
1:01:23
and daughter, they know. They know you've been there.
1:01:25
They know how you've experienced and you can share those stories
1:01:28
back. And and they don't feel alone
1:01:30
when they know that somebody that's been there is there to
1:01:33
help them. And I think that's just the, you
1:01:35
know, that's the secret ingredient that becomes your
1:01:37
special power. Really.
1:01:43
Yeah. The Liberation Organization,
1:01:48
Liberation programs is, is that people can go to that website,
1:01:52
right? Yes, immigrationprograms.org.
1:01:56
They can go to the website. We provide services for
1:02:00
individuals from. We have services for youth
1:02:04
through the full continuum of. All the way.
1:02:08
Through all the way through, we have inpatient programs, we have
1:02:10
medication assisted programs to outpatient programs where we
1:02:14
have where we individuals come in for medication assisted
1:02:18
treatment. We have intensive outpatient
1:02:20
programs. Outpatient programs are two
1:02:22
residential programs. One is for males, A64 bed male
1:02:27
with half of those beds are individuals who are just as
1:02:30
impacted and come directly from the prison system.
1:02:35
So their court support services division, they come in there.
1:02:38
That does not mean that the other half are not just as
1:02:41
impacted as well. It's just that they are not in
1:02:45
the system. They are not in prison at the
1:02:47
time or probation officers not referring them.
1:02:50
So there's that for the men. And then there's the 10 bed
1:02:53
inpatient program for pregnant and parents and women with their
1:02:57
children where they could bring up the two children.
1:03:00
And that is the program that I was instrumental in actually
1:03:03
starting. So when I got the press release
1:03:06
and I've been working here at this particular program the
1:03:09
entire time of that. And so just we just celebrated
1:03:13
30 years in October of last year, wow of this program and we
1:03:18
have outpatient, we have harm reduction, we have outreach and
1:03:23
we have Ryan White services. Great.
1:03:26
I mean, just a great organization doing great work
1:03:30
that's needed. Yeah.
1:03:32
Maggie, thanks so much. I for those out there, I want to
1:03:36
give a shout out to Homestead Financial who helps well, lets
1:03:41
me use this podcast studio, all these fancy lights and and
1:03:45
cameras and that I appreciate it.
1:03:47
If anybody's got home mortgage and he's out there, Greg Aftia
1:03:50
from Homestead Financial is your guy.
1:03:53
If you looking for a book out there, I've got one nightmare
1:03:55
success you can get on Barnes and Noble or Amazon.
1:03:59
And if you got time, I know it's a hassle, but it helps the show
1:04:02
to leave a review on Apple. Apple podcast takes a few
1:04:07
seconds, but it's great. You want to know anything about
1:04:09
me, what I'm doing, go to brentcassidy.com.
1:04:12
I spell it wrong. It's with a Ty, not a DY.
1:04:15
Why? I would love to have been a DY
1:04:18
growing up. Maggie with Sean and David
1:04:20
Cassidy and the heart, the whole deal, as I used to say to my
1:04:27
people when I was writing my emails back and forth from
1:04:29
Leavenworth, stay strong. I'll do the same.
1:04:33
Maggie Young, thank you so much and thanks.
1:04:35
Thank you so much for what you do.
1:04:37
I just hope you just keep it all going all.
1:04:39
Righty create a great day and it's such a pleasure, such a
1:04:43
pleasure. Thank you, Maggie, now I'm your
1:04:45
success in and out all. Right.