Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Daniel Knight about his choice of The Time Meddler (2/4)

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Talks to Daniel Knight about his choice of The Time Meddler (2/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:23
  None. Hamster with a blunt pen knife
• 0:35
  for doing. Quicker, quicker.
• 0:39
  Quicker 2/1 Welcome back to our hamster with a blunt penknife,
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  the Doctor Who Commentary podcast, Joe Daniel.
• 0:48
  The first time I did that I've it was such a tongue twister.
• 0:52
  It took me ages to get that right.
• 0:53
  I mean, that just sounds effortless now, doesn't it?
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  It's it's almost like you could imagine that you've just pressed
• 0:59
  play and you just play it rather than say it every time.
• 1:03
  But you've had to say well, not every single time.
• 1:05
  Because you have you get sometimes get us to say it and
• 1:09
  it is very tempting to go when we have to say welcome back to a
• 1:13
  hamster with a blood bend dive The Doctor Chemistry The Doctor
• 1:17
  Commentary Podcast Chemistry podcast A.
• 1:20
  Chemistry. Yeah.
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  I mean, there's plenty of chemistry about also.
• 1:27
  Yeah, people do like taking piss tonight.
• 1:30
  Bastards. It's it's an homage, isn't it?
• 1:32
  You know, imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, they
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  say, Oh, I'll take the compliment then.
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  Well, look, and I are here today to talk about the second episode
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  of The Time Meddler Fantastic Season 2 adventure.
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  But do you agree with my assertion then that there there
• 1:50
  is a bit of running around in two and three?
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  Yeah, I think also two suffers from the fact that Mister
• 1:57
  Hartnell is on holiday yet again and it's up to the regulars in
• 2:04
  Peter Butterworth to keep our interest.
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  I think that when they did the the research for the for the
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  story. That that, you know, they did it
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  sort of like, oh. What was it?
• 2:22
  The reaction index the the the figure for episode two was far
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  lower than the figure for episodes 1/3 and four.
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  Oh, is that because Hartman's not there?
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  Possibly, yeah. I've got the figures here.
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  Yeah, the appreciation figures 57% for the first episode 53 for
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  episode 3. 54 for episode four and only 49 for episode 2.
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  So I wonder if that's a that they really did miss Hartnell
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  and that they wanted him you know they they they really did
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  miss him and that's that's reflected in that those reaction
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  scores. I mean, I can understand that
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  it's called Doctor Who and this episode does not have Doctor Who
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  in it, no? But it does still hear him.
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  You do? Yeah.
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  I'll come out when I'm ready. I say that all the time
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  tomorrow. I I won't tell you where I am,
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  though. Usually the bar, but it does
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  expose that Purvis and O'Brien are more than capable of holding
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  their own. Because they are so I think.
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  I think they're very good, yeah. Especially when all they do is
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  go from the monastery to the Saxon village and back through
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  the secret passage. But yeah, they they they keep
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  her. I think yeah they're very good.
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  Particularly Maureen O'Brien who she's just got such an energy to
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  her. She's really and you you're on
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  her side because you just because you know Stephen
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  Taylor's a bit of a you know bit of a no all and may I can I say
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  this bit of a prick really because he he thinks he and and
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  it's almost like the audience at home going.
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  Listen to Vicky. She knows what she's talking
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  about. She's the one who's right and
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  it's sort of, you know, you just have that little slight
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  pomposity that Stephen has is is pricked a little bit towards the
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  end and he does realise that at fact she's she's she's right and
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  he's wrong. Unfortunately.
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  I do like a good prick and I'm not being rude there for once.
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  And that is, I do like acerbic characters.
• 4:31
  My favorite doctor is Colin Baker.
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  I really love Peter Capaldi. You know, I like and John
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  Purkley, Early John Purkley, you know, where he's like people
• 4:38
  that say about infallibility are on very shaky ground, being an
• 4:41
  asshole on the scientific thing. Oh.
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  I love, I love it. And John, ambassadors of death,
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  where he says the man's a fool. How can I tell whether there's
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  the the messages come from when I haven't even deciphered it or
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  something? Isn't it?
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  Because the joke is always on them, They always end up looking
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  like an idiot, and it's the reactions they get from the
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  other people. Do you remember?
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  I think in this one, Vicky goes, what?
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  You just do what I say for once, You know, like he gets to be
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  like a bossy miss. Yeah.
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  You know, I can imagine some people cheering and going, yeah,
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  you tell him, Vicky, You know, Upstart who suddenly just, you
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  know, turns up and thinks he knows everything.
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  But it is almost like Stephen is a new viewer to Doctor Who and
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  he has to be convinced of the premise.
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  And whilst doing that they're having fun by changing the
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  premise of Doctor Who having a historical story with all these
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  sort of modern contraptions in it.
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  This naughty man who, you know puts money in a bank in 1960,
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  something skips forward in time 200 years and then claims a
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  fortune in compound interest. Compound interest?
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  Geez, I've not heard that for a while.
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  Which may be why they chose to repeat this one, because it is a
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  good starting point. It shows the premise of the
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  show. So for anyone who's been, you
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  know, living in a cave or under a rock, for who for the, you
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  know, for the last 30 years you've never seen Doctor at that
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  point. It's a good starting point that
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  this gives you what the show is about and also gives you a good
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  villain in you know, who's played by an actor that is very
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  well known. You know, Peter Purvis would
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  have been very well known. So it's a nice opportunity.
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  I mean, that was the first episode I saw with him in it.
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  And also I think Maureen O'Brien, had I seen the The Web
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  Planet by then? I don't know.
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  But yeah. So maybe that's why they chose
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  it, because it's a really sort of quite a good, fun place to to
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  start showing us sort of like a retrospective of what Doctor Who
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  was like. What's worth from end bringing
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  as well is some of like the greatest creators and mice.
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  We're actually watching Doctor Who at this time.
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  We know people like Douglas Adams was watching around this
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  time. Kim Newman, the critic, was
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  watching around this time. J Michael Straskinski, who
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  created the Abomination, Babylon Five was watching around this
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  time. You know, these people were
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  paying attention to this stuff. Yeah, well, should we be
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  inspired ourselves? I think we should, yes.
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  Yes. Well, I'll tell you what, let's
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  go in and then you hit us with one of your fabulous questions.
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  OK, right. So in 543210 it started a bit
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  early. Sorry.
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  That's all right, don't you worry.
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  Couple of seconds between friends.
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  So what have the hand fan got for us then?
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  You know, you said, oh, let's hit with some, some, yeah.
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  I can't find them now. I, I.
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  Where have they gone? Where have they gone?
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  Ah, here, here we are. Here we are.
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  Right. So, Fraser.
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  Gregory, our good friends like marry a void.
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  No, it's actually a very good question.
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  I thought he does. You know what secretly Daniel,
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  he does do very good questions. He's.
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  He's very good. He's a good prober.
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  Well, I wouldn't say that, but I would.
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  So his question Award. His his instruction.
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  Dennis Spooner is more instrumental in the success and
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  longevity of the show than anyone else in the 60s.
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  Discuss. Oh wow, you could write a
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  dissertation. You could.
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  It's crazy. You've out done yourself.
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  Well, we have sort of mentioned this before though we've sort of
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  briefly talked about how. Well, I can't remember if it was
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  on whether we were recording or not, but how that his his
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  approach to historical sort of opens up the series.
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  Whereas David Whittaker's historicals are very serious and
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  very restricted. And if you think about Marco
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  Polo, this the main thrust of the story as far as the
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  companions are concerned, as the doctrine his companions are
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  concerned the getting the key back to the TARDIS.
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  Whereas the the the machinations between Marco Polo and Tagana
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  and the final series, the final episode where the the main
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  climax of the story is actually the sword fight between Marco
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  and Tagana and the doctrine of the his his companions she's
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  standing around watching. Whereas this this type of
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  historical story has the Doctor pretty much sort of centre into
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  having to stop history being changed.
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  So I think, yeah, and and that's, this is sort of a
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  blueprint for future stories where the Doctor realises that
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  something in Earth's history is a is a point where, you know,
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  we've got to stop this because otherwise history will be
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  changed. Think pyramids are Mars when he
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  takes Sarah and Laurence Scullman back to 1980.
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  Because Sarah thinks that, well, you know, I'm from 1980,
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  everything's fine. What's, you know, let's go back.
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  And he shows her what happens if they don't interfere.
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  With time and that you know history is history has changed
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  and the and the earth is destroyed by Suitek.
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  So yeah I think he he widens the the the spectrum of historical
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  stories. It's interesting, after after
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  Spooner goes, Donald Tosh, who's the script editor after him gets
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  John Lucarotti to do another story, the massacre, which kind
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  of goes back to. You know, a major event in
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  history and the Doctor and Stephen are pretty much
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  bystanders. And the the, as far as we're
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  concerned, the drama of the story is the Doctor and Stephen,
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  you know, safely getting back to the TARDIS.
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  I mean he puts in the twist of you know, is the Abbot of
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  Amboyrs the Doctor or is he actually just the Doctor's
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  double. So, but it's still again the
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  main structs of the historical side of it, the context.
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  The actual massacre. The Doctor and Stephen aren't
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  really affected by it, It's just their escape.
• 11:02
  He gets very serious again, doesn't it?
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  When, and I thank God we've got Donald Cotton there, who's
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  going, no, I'm going to have some fun with my stories.
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  We're going to subvert what doctors I think as well.
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  I think Spooner pushed away from that very sort of straight laced
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  storytelling and he was like, we're going to have fun
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  adventures being bold, colourful, if you're pardon the
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  pun, because it's in black and white, adventures on crazy
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  planets with butterfly people, you know, rocks in Rome.
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  We're going to go to this Space Museum and play about with time
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  in a really interesting way. We're going to have a romp
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  around time and space in the chase.
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  We're going to have a historical story which redefines what you
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  can do with historical stories. Like, he brings the fun to
• 11:46
  Doctor Who, which I don't think ever really goes away.
• 11:51
  And I do think he turns the Doctor from somebody who's on an
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  exploration to a hero. Yes, and somebody who is at the
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  centre of these adventures. I know the companions get a lot
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  to do, but I think it's Doctor focused when he So yeah, he
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  absolutely he redefined the show.
• 12:15
  And also he came in in second series which a second series for
• 12:19
  any second season of any series. It's got to be bigger than.
• 12:23
  It's got to build on what's been established for the second
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  series. You can't just do pretty much
• 12:28
  the same as you did the first series.
• 12:29
  I mean, if you think about when the series came back with Rusty
• 12:32
  Davis, I mean it it in a way it helped having a different
• 12:35
  doctor. So there was another sort of
• 12:38
  twist to some new energy. New energy you got, you brought
• 12:42
  in, you brought Sarah Jane back. To to have that link with the
• 12:46
  with the the original series, you put the sidemen back, then
• 12:49
  you get you know, the climax of the season with being Daleks
• 12:53
  versus sidemen, which you know, every kid in the playground
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  played but the series had never touched before.
• 12:59
  So yeah, it's that's another thing that he had.
• 13:01
  He realises that you've got to build on what's already been
• 13:04
  established. You can't just carry on doing
• 13:06
  the same old, same old last. He brought the humour as well.
• 13:10
  Skinny. Oh yeah.
• 13:13
  You know, very much, yes. And he could just turn a line,
• 13:15
  couldn't he? I mean, there's just too many.
• 13:18
  I'm sure it'll be a a a roaring success, you know, like God, he
• 13:24
  could turn a line. What's what's happening in the
• 13:27
  timer, though? I've totally lost track now.
• 13:28
  But great question, Fraser. Yes, thank you, Fraser.
• 13:32
  So, Peter Butterworth. Like I said when we did episode
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  one famous now for the carry ONS but he'd actually not done any
• 13:40
  carry ONS by the time when when he was making this so but he he
• 13:44
  had a fascinating history his life he was he was in the RAF
• 13:51
  during the during the Second World War and he was shot down
• 13:54
  and he ended up being captured by the Germans and put in a
• 13:58
  prisoner of war camp and he was part of a an escape plan.
• 14:04
  Which was later turned into a film called, I think it's called
• 14:07
  The Wooden Horse. Where they were there was sort
• 14:10
  of a group of of sort of gymnasts trying to sort of you
• 14:15
  know, do a sort of like a sort of diversion for the the tunnels
• 14:20
  being being dug. The sad thing is, when they came
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  to make the film of the story, Peter Butterworth auditioned to
• 14:30
  play pretty much himself. And they wouldn't cast him
• 14:33
  because he wasn't heroic looking enough, no.
• 14:37
  Yeah. So this was my this was me, you
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  know? Yeah.
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  I mean, you they, yeah, they they didn't cast him because he
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  wasn't. He wasn't athletic or heroic
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  looking enough. No, I Daniel, he didn't do too
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  badly. He ended up in.
• 14:53
  He ended up in Doctor Who and in quite a lot of Carry On films.
• 14:57
  And you know what? We never forgot him, did we?
• 15:00
  No, you and I get the Doctor Who way after this.
• 15:04
  And you know, I was always aware of the Meddling Monk.
• 15:07
  Yeah, I mean it it was sort of when you when sort of Doctor Who
• 15:12
  magazine started looking back at the history of the show, it was
• 15:15
  sort of seen as being, you know, the Doctor was this, this
• 15:18
  Meddling Monk was definitely a Time Lord and I think in sort of
• 15:22
  1 early one early Doctor Who magazine.
• 15:25
  They'd come up with the idea of of the Doctor saying I can't
• 15:29
  believe a Gallifrey would stoop so low.
• 15:31
  Of course wasn't actually said at all.
• 15:34
  So it's it was always sort of retrospectively rewritten that
• 15:38
  he was definitely a Time Lord. There was one of his own.
• 15:41
  Sequence in a Gary Russell novel, I'll call it the
• 15:45
  Gallifrey 90210 Sequence, where we visit them all of the Academy
• 15:49
  and he's called Mortimus and he's hanging out with the
• 15:51
  Doctor, The Master and the Rani. You know, Time teenagers.
• 15:57
  There was a lot of that sort of retro rewriting done afterwards.
• 15:59
  So make it all fit in, because we love doing that, don't we?
• 16:02
  Making it all fit into one big we.
• 16:04
  We've got to, we've got to fit it all into one big puzzle,
• 16:07
  haven't we? We can't be.
• 16:08
  And I think that's why being adopted fan is so frustrating
• 16:12
  because of those episodes that we can't see.
• 16:15
  You know, it's almost like this, that that puzzle and until and
• 16:19
  it's unlikely that we'll ever get any, you know, the complete
• 16:23
  series. As as it was originally
• 16:26
  transmitted back to being to be able to watch it, it's almost
• 16:29
  like we we can never rest until that's we've got to carry on
• 16:34
  with our quest of being Doctor Who fans until all those missing
• 16:38
  episodes are found. What's great though is about
• 16:41
  when they write The Monk into stuff like Big Finish is like
• 16:45
  Peter Butterworth. They are encouraged to bring in
• 16:49
  brilliant comedy actors and Graham Garden, Rufus Hound, but
• 16:54
  they all give great performances as the Monk.
• 16:57
  And they've also brought in Gemma.
• 17:00
  Oh, what's that surname? Gemma from Sheets.
• 17:04
  She's in. I think she was in Game of
• 17:06
  Thrones, but I've never seen Game of Thrones far from one
• 17:08
  episode. And she was in Upstart Crow.
• 17:11
  Is it Gemma Whelan? She was also she was in the 10th
• 17:15
  Doctor, wasn't she? Yeah, so as the, as the, as the,
• 17:20
  as the nun. She's she's very good.
• 17:24
  She's, she's good. I would, you know, if if they
• 17:26
  ever cast a female Doctor, I think she'd be quite high up on
• 17:29
  my list. I think she's, she's great.
• 17:31
  It's a great actress and very funny.
• 17:32
  Oh, I hope it's soon. That's for sure what's
• 17:39
  occurring. Yeah.
• 17:39
  Oh yeah. So now I have a bit of issue
• 17:41
  with some of these sort of Saxon Viking scenes.
• 17:43
  They because the characters are a bit one note, aren't they?
• 17:48
  They are a bit, I think. Yeah, certainly.
• 17:52
  Certainly the male character. I think that's why Edith sticks
• 17:55
  out quite so well because she's she gets a wonderful scene with
• 17:58
  Hartnell in the and and and again in episode 3 as well.
• 18:03
  So she's a bit more believable and a bit more.
• 18:07
  There's a bit more sort of character to her, even.
• 18:11
  Don't do yourself any favours at all, does he?
• 18:13
  He's rolling these people up. He's such a twist and that and
• 18:18
  and it's great that that Vicky, you know?
• 18:21
  She's got such a a good she knows she's got she's learned
• 18:24
  well from the Doctor that you you treat people with respect
• 18:28
  and and humility and although she doesn't say thank you Oh
• 18:35
  well, she's young. Yeah, she says the pirate planet
• 18:38
  making contact with her a species is it requires tact and
• 18:41
  finesse. Yes.
• 18:43
  And Vicky's mess with that and Stephen's not.
• 18:46
  But Stephen does come to learn that.
• 18:47
  Because when you come to stories like The Massacre, yes, Gracia
• 18:51
  himself, yes, it's a learning curve.
• 18:54
  You. Know it is, yeah.
• 18:55
  He's on a mix chip at the moment.
• 18:58
  He's the new boy on the block and and she's teaching him the
• 19:01
  ropes, even though he doesn't think he needs to be taught.
• 19:05
  I think Warnor and Edith would be lovely parents, you know.
• 19:11
  Yeah, yeah. And he's a bit, yeah.
• 19:17
  The guy playing L Dread is a little bit sort of.
• 19:20
  I don't know if he's overplaying the sort of wide eyed a little
• 19:22
  bit. Sort of scared.
• 19:24
  It scared how empty I am to say it, you know.
• 19:27
  What's that? Eldrad must live.
• 19:32
  Is it Eldrad or Eldred? I'm not sure, But then there
• 19:36
  isn't. There is an Eldred in the Seeds
• 19:37
  of Death, so it's all getting a bit confused.
• 19:39
  It is, isn't it? Yes, Professor.
• 19:42
  Professor Eldred. Professor Daniel Eldred, If if
• 19:45
  memory serves me right, I once went to this sort of S&M party
• 19:51
  right and everyone was dressed up a bit like that Viking there.
• 20:01
  I'm joking. I'm doing it just to get a
• 20:03
  reaction. Having seen the behind the sofa
• 20:09
  for this, I think it's quite. Daniel, I didn't know what you
• 20:11
  were going to say then, having seen, I didn't know where that
• 20:14
  sentence was going. Sorry, please continue.
• 20:16
  It is quite I I think. I think it's delightful watching
• 20:21
  Bonnie Langford and Sophie Aldridge watching this story and
• 20:25
  I I think Bonnie Langford seems to have a bit of a soft spot or
• 20:27
  a bit of a yeah, she quite, I think she quite fancies Sven,
• 20:32
  who I think is the blonde one. Although the the moustache looks
• 20:36
  a bit dodgy and the guy with the helmet is in the invasion.
• 20:44
  The guy who's the guy who's got the helmet, he's in the
• 20:47
  invasion. He's in he's in the car with
• 20:50
  with Benton in the first episode.
• 20:53
  That's hairy in that. Isn't he?
• 20:56
  Yeah. Well, you know, again, Douglas
• 20:59
  Canfield, he does always cast actors, you know, continually,
• 21:06
  yeah. I bet as well, like this was
• 21:09
  fairly cheap to do. They must.
• 21:10
  I bet they had all these costumes from other BBC dramas,
• 21:13
  the Viking costumes and, you know, the peasant costumes.
• 21:17
  It was, yeah, I think this was the cheapie of the season.
• 21:19
  I know because I've got the the the Handbook, the 1st Dr.
• 21:24
  Handbook by the David Howe and all the other guys whose I
• 21:28
  apologise and names I can't remember.
• 21:33
  Sounds like as firm as solicitors, doesn't it?
• 21:37
  And they they they do give us all like a production diary and
• 21:40
  they should they they tell you how much each episode cost and I
• 21:43
  think all of these episodes came in about under 2000 pounds,
• 21:47
  which for 196525 minutes of drama there's not a lot of
• 21:52
  money, is it? But.
• 21:54
  Nowadays isn't it? To a Disney Plus show and say
• 21:57
  right, you've got £2000 per episode off you go.
• 22:01
  Oh, no way. Panic.
• 22:02
  They wouldn't know. Inflation.
• 22:04
  Well, I heard though, you know, you hear all these designers and
• 22:08
  costumers and make up assistants things saying, I'll cut my teeth
• 22:12
  on Doctor Who. We didn't have any money.
• 22:13
  We had to be creative. Exactly.
• 22:15
  Taught me to think on my feet and that's why you've got people
• 22:19
  like James Atchison who you know they started on Doctor Who or
• 22:23
  they were they were you know BBC designer who did work on Doctor
• 22:27
  Who and then went on to do films and win Oscars and.
• 22:32
  Isn't a fellow who designed the Arc in space, he went on.
• 22:35
  He did well for himself as well, didn't he?
• 22:36
  Roger Murray Leach. Roger Murray Leach.
• 22:38
  Yeah, he does he yeah, he did films.
• 22:40
  I think he did. He did A Fish Called Wander and
• 22:42
  Fierce Creatures for For John. Please.
• 22:45
  It's mentioned. Yeah, he meant.
• 22:46
  I think his name is mentioned in Michael Palin's Diaries when
• 22:49
  they were talking about making the films.
• 22:52
  But I'll tell you one thing that raises season three so far above
• 22:57
  season 2 for me is it doesn't have Richard Bloody Martin in
• 23:01
  it. Sabotaging.
• 23:03
  I mean, he gets all the biggies this year, don't he?
• 23:05
  Dalek, Invasion of Earth, The Web, Planet and The Chase.
• 23:08
  The three blockbusters. And the man can't point a bloody
• 23:11
  camera. And he does say all these
• 23:14
  special features again and again.
• 23:15
  I don't have any time. I don't have any money.
• 23:17
  Bullshit. Because.
• 23:19
  The The Time Meddler and the Crusade they look incredible and
• 23:26
  they've done less money. Yeah, I mean it is a sort of a
• 23:28
  cliche say that the BBC can do historical dramas, you know,
• 23:33
  standing on their head. But in those days they had fast
• 23:36
  sort of you know rooms of costumes.
• 23:37
  They had the the resources to to to do that to do historical
• 23:42
  dramas. Yes, they could do them.
• 23:44
  But it as you say when you look at the budgets for compare this
• 23:50
  story to the crusade the the the chase he the the money for the
• 23:56
  Chase was pretty much double that it was for well nearly
• 23:58
  double for what it was for, for this story.
• 24:01
  And that's why that's why Richard Martin doesn't come
• 24:05
  back. And why, when it comes to making
• 24:07
  the big Dalek story for the next season, they get the guy who
• 24:11
  does this and the crusade. But.
• 24:12
  That argument that, well, those were science fiction stories and
• 24:16
  historicals were easy to do on little money.
• 24:18
  Completely out the window when it comes.
• 24:20
  Oh, absolutely last time. Which looks incredible.
• 24:23
  Yeah, I think it does. Absolutely come down to the
• 24:26
  talent. When when there's this few
• 24:28
  resources, it comes down to the talent of the director, and this
• 24:31
  is such a smooth watch. But then I think the rescue and
• 24:35
  the Romans are as well, and they're both Christopher Barry,
• 24:39
  yeah. So we're coming up to that scene
• 24:43
  where which is, quite frankly, an elephant in the room, and
• 24:48
  Lucy McCall has said that she loves this one.
• 24:52
  The idea that the Doctor is not the only person with a TARDIS
• 24:55
  and he has an adversary who is as equal as great.
• 24:58
  The setting is well done and there's so much humour as well
• 25:00
  as drama. The apparent sexual assault
• 25:03
  seems jarring given the general tone though, and I think, yeah,
• 25:06
  she's definitely got a point there.
• 25:08
  And Paul Quinn also mentioned the scene is particularly awful
• 25:12
  in the book. And yes, it's really
• 25:14
  uncomfortably with the rest of the story that clash between the
• 25:17
  reality of a Viking attack and the comedic interrogation of
• 25:21
  history. And the rest of the story makes
• 25:23
  the Time Meddler look like a stepping stone from the
• 25:26
  realistic historical historicals like The Crusade and the more
• 25:30
  historical experimental historicals like The Myth Makers
• 25:33
  and The Gunfighters. It's also the point at which
• 25:36
  they move, definitely from season ones.
• 25:38
  You can't alter history, not one line.
• 25:40
  You wouldn't be able to shoot Napoleon, essentially Moffett's
• 25:43
  fixed points in history to something more dangerous.
• 25:46
  Although the fixed points will be back for the massacre, which
• 25:49
  we sort of mentioned. So thank you.
• 25:51
  Oh, now what did? You do.
• 25:53
  We We got all the way to the Pandora because of you.
• 25:57
  I do think like so she is picked up by one of those Vikings taken
• 26:02
  on to the heart and the next time I see her, she is so
• 26:07
  traumatised she cannot talk. I mean, I've when I first saw
• 26:12
  this because she's because she's she's absolutely not moving.
• 26:15
  I thought she was dead. What?
• 26:16
  And she's. Bruised as well.
• 26:18
  So like Iman handled her and look, they're there.
• 26:21
  And the inference is, look, he's swigging a drink as he's
• 26:23
  walking. It's.
• 26:26
  Really explicit and you would not get away with it now.
• 26:30
  You really would Not really in years and.
• 26:32
  Like I said, this was Doctor Who figuring out what it can and
• 26:35
  cannot do. They never didn't do scissors
• 26:38
  again. Being stacked chair?
• 26:40
  That's like high end psycho drama again, either.
• 26:45
  I think Lucy's right though. I think it's the tone of the
• 26:48
  story Jar, because I think if you put it into like, it still
• 26:53
  wouldn't be great, but if you put it into something like the
• 26:55
  Aztecs, which is very serious, or the Crusade crusade, yeah.
• 27:02
  I mean the crusade, there's an implied what is it?
• 27:04
  He says Eloquet. The only pleasure left for you
• 27:07
  is death, and death is very far away is a cliffhanger lines,
• 27:11
  which basically he's spelling out the same.
• 27:13
  Thing. Do you think the show should
• 27:17
  ever go there? No.
• 27:21
  I I no. As a fan and as a dad, No.
• 27:26
  I would have a little bit of it would be quite uncomfortable to
• 27:31
  explain to my children what's happened to Edith.
• 27:36
  Yeah, I think there is a way of responsibly detailing history
• 27:42
  without being as. As graphic as that.
• 27:47
  For example, these very laboured fighter sequences we're watching
• 27:50
  right now. Yeah, it's odd, I.
• 27:53
  Think it jars even more in the keys of Mariners, which is like
• 27:57
  a fun sci-fi romp? Yes.
• 28:00
  With Vassal the Hunter. Yes.
• 28:03
  Yeah, because it's more hands in.
• 28:04
  Mind and all of this very uncomfortable.
• 28:09
  But you could also argue you know Joe Bell, I mean we we,
• 28:15
  when we spoke about Planet of Fire, poor old Perry gets lusted
• 28:17
  over quite a lot. And again as a kid you didn't
• 28:21
  really notice it. But now as an adult and as a
• 28:23
  parent, I kind of that's not very I'm not very comfortable
• 28:27
  with that scene where Joe Bell's falling over her.
• 28:30
  I mean, to be fair, Perry does sort of fight back.
• 28:32
  And you know, it's very quick with the quips and all.
• 28:36
  Your red Ruby lips were made for kissing and she goes, oh, not by
• 28:39
  you sunshine, you know, But there is a lot.
• 28:42
  Of that. In that season, which is
• 28:45
  comfortable, Yes. Yeah, yeah, it's.
• 28:49
  It's a it's a tricky 1 because Doctor Who was trying to be
• 28:53
  quite adult at times, but I always think you should remember
• 28:57
  the youngest members of the audience and the fact that they
• 29:02
  will have some questions. It's like what?
• 29:04
  It's the same way I feel like they don't cremate me.
• 29:07
  Lying in dark water is so irresponsible because.
• 29:11
  That is going to encourage a conversation that I don't think
• 29:15
  any parent would ever want to have.
• 29:19
  I I possibly because I used to be a funeral director.
• 29:22
  That line really rankled with me because I could imagine children
• 29:25
  who had been. And you, you did see children
• 29:28
  going to Cremation Services and they see that, you know, they go
• 29:31
  to Granny's funeral on the Friday, and then on the Saturday
• 29:34
  they see, you know, a nice little jolly romp with the
• 29:36
  doctor. And there's the doctor hearing
• 29:38
  this person going, don't cremate me.
• 29:40
  Is that what? Is that what Granny was saying?
• 29:42
  Oh, no, I could have. Yeah.
• 29:46
  So it's. It's that old Moffett would have
• 29:48
  got the rough edge of my tongue if I'd met him after that.
• 29:53
  Don't think it's the. Only I'll choice like like
• 29:55
  tasteless choice here either, but no, no certainly the the.
• 29:59
  Most sort of prevalent 1 back to the.
• 30:02
  Time meddler there. Back to the time Meddler.
• 30:04
  Now we've probably. Well, what do you call?
• 30:06
  Do you know what's weird is? You skip back to the Romans and
• 30:11
  you do have sequences of a sex pest chasing the Doctor's
• 30:15
  companion around and trying to lure her to his bedroom.
• 30:20
  Yes, and yet. I have no issue with that
• 30:24
  because it is being presented as a comedy.
• 30:26
  He's being presented as a buffoon, that she's always got
• 30:30
  the upper hand, weirdly. I don't know.
• 30:33
  It's the tone of the story. I think it is, yes.
• 30:36
  Yeah, that's not me saying. People should be sex best, you
• 30:42
  know, as long as they're having a laugh with it, it is a very.
• 30:47
  Different thing to what's what's being portrayed here.
• 30:49
  Yeah, you've just got to get the tone right, haven't you?
• 30:51
  Really. And I think that's why, you
• 30:54
  know, this sort of quite funny fun romp with suddenly gets this
• 30:59
  scene where a character is raped.
• 31:02
  It's not, it's not, it's not good.
• 31:04
  Maybe just don't. Go there at all?
• 31:06
  No. I think if they probably, if in
• 31:10
  the the unlikely event that this story was ever repeated on BBC
• 31:14
  One, that scene might be cut. I don't know.
• 31:17
  Possibly. I mean, it only says a classic
• 31:21
  science fiction, which may be scary for some young children,
• 31:25
  whereas they they're not. Above Brit box put in unsuitable
• 31:29
  for or may cause offence, yes or anything like that.
• 31:34
  See now this cliffhanger right after the last one.
• 31:36
  I think this came out a bit lame, because, you know, we
• 31:39
  finally found the Doctor. Oh, he's gone.
• 31:45
  I don't think it's. Going to go down as one of the
• 31:46
  greats? No?
• 31:48
  Yeah, unlike. The next cliffhanger, The thing
• 31:54
  about the the wonderful thing about Peter Butterworth is he's
• 31:57
  just got that. I mean I yeah, it was wrong for
• 32:02
  the the makers of that film to say no, sorry you're not heroic
• 32:05
  enough. We can't we're not going to cast
• 32:06
  you. But he's he's that face is
• 32:09
  probably it is that sort of that the long sort of wide mouth and
• 32:15
  sort of the Jelly part and it's just it's it's a face that's
• 32:19
  made for comedy I think. And he's really good in that
• 32:26
  it's finished. Like you say, wasn't wasn't the
• 32:29
  best cliffhanger, no. But when we did have a great one
• 32:33
  for one and three, two out of three ain't bad.
• 32:35
  It isn't. Yeah.
• 32:37
  And the last episode. The last episode has a wonderful
• 32:40
  ending. Oh, that.
• 32:42
  Star skate with their faces. Yeah, that's beautiful.
• 32:45
  Yes. Well, look.
• 32:46
  Do you want to go out on one last question?
• 32:50
  OK, where, oh, have we got. Ah, right.
• 32:52
  Oh, no, I'm going to leave that one.
• 32:55
  Yeah. Dave Renly says hello, Dave, my
• 32:57
  favorite Hartnell. Peter Butterworth is fantastic.
• 33:00
  If the Monk had come back in the classic series, is there any
• 33:03
  actors you'd have cast in the part?
• 33:06
  Oh, that's a. Great question.
• 33:11
  Well up until I would have, I would have brought back Peter
• 33:14
  Butterworth because he was he died in 1979 I think.
• 33:18
  So you know if they'd have brought him back back for the
• 33:21
  early sort of per we per we era or early Tom.
• 33:24
  Yeah, definitely bring them back.
• 33:26
  You're going to. Think I'm crazy, but she's a.
• 33:30
  Fantastic actress. She's a brilliant comic actress.
• 33:34
  She's a brilliant dramatic actress and she uses her facial
• 33:38
  expressions on her body to tell. Comedy story So Well, she'd be
• 33:44
  brilliant as the Meddling Monk. Patricia Rutledge?
• 33:50
  Yes, as the Meddling Monk. I'll be all over that.
• 33:56
  Yeah, I know. Whoa, gosh.
• 33:58
  Patricia Rutledge as as the meddling nun.
• 34:02
  Yeah, I can see that. I I was expecting you to come
• 34:05
  out with somebody like Miriam Margulies or It's a bit.
• 34:08
  Obvious I think. Possibly, yeah.
• 34:12
  I like Rowley's. He's such a talent.
• 34:14
  And I'll say this all the time in hamsters.
• 34:16
  It's just obscene that she was never cast in Doctor Who in some
• 34:20
  role or another. She was right for the picking
• 34:24
  JNT. Maybe they just couldn't afford
• 34:27
  her. Oh, maybe.
• 34:28
  Or maybe. She didn't want to do it.
• 34:29
  Maybe they'll maybe. Maybe they did.
• 34:31
  Yeah, Helen, I Nah. You're all right, Georgina.
• 34:34
  Hale's going to have all the fun.
• 34:35
  Do you know we answered that question adequately?
• 34:42
  I think. Well, I cheated because I said I
• 34:43
  would have cast Peter Butter. I would have brought Peter
• 34:45
  Butterworth back. I don't know.
• 34:50
  I don't know who I'd cast. I'm thinking of actors in the
• 34:53
  70s who, I mean, you know, you could have had.
• 34:56
  I mean, you could have had Sid James.
• 35:01
  No, maybe not. Yeah.
• 35:02
  Who's the. Monty Hyphen Guy Who Sings
• 35:04
  Always Look on the Ball, Eric. Eric Idle.
• 35:07
  He would have been great. Oh, Doctor he was.
• 35:14
  There was a rumour that he was up for the TV movie.
• 35:16
  Oh really? And.
• 35:18
  I did. There was.
• 35:19
  I did actually ask him on Twitter once if, you know, if
• 35:22
  he'd had been asked, would he would he have done it?
• 35:24
  And he said he Yeah, probably not.
• 35:27
  But he didn't know. He would have.
• 35:28
  He would have looked at the script and made the decision.
• 35:30
  But yeah, so yeah, Peter. Yeah, Eric Idler's as as the
• 35:36
  Monk or Michael Palin, let's say.
• 35:39
  Idle for the 70s? Yeah.
• 35:42
  Pressure Routledge for the 80s? Absolutely.
• 35:45
  There we go. And and the monks having as many
• 35:47
  appearances as the master, I think I'll put the monk in in in
• 35:54
  the King's demons instead of the master that would have.
• 35:57
  Why didn't they do that? Oh, why did they have to bring
• 36:00
  the master back? They could have brought, you
• 36:01
  know, he slipped pretty. Well into the time Meddler as
• 36:04
  well. Brief loading guns twice, Yeah.
• 36:10
  Yeah, absolutely. More Monk piece.
• 36:12
  People.