Latest / On Deathcare / Open-Air Pyres, Floral Delivery Brawls, and the Funeral Women Lead Report
Transcript
- 0:04SPEAKER_00: Hi, I am Tony Russo from On Deathcare,
- 0:06SPEAKER_00: and this is The Rest, your weekly rundown of news from around funeral service.
- 0:11SPEAKER_00: Tons of stuff to get to this week.
- 0:12SPEAKER_00: Actually, not tons of stuff.
- 0:14SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of like...
- 0:16SPEAKER_00: We'll be right back.
- 0:43SPEAKER_00: It is because of them that I have both the courage and the motivation to get
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- 1:21SPEAKER_00: So that's all of that.
- 1:22SPEAKER_00: And let's get into it.
- 1:26SPEAKER_00: So as you know, it is Monday.
- 1:27SPEAKER_00: This is actually Monday afternoon as I'm recording this.
- 1:30SPEAKER_00: And earlier today, I spoke with a funeral director named Dan Simmons.
- 1:35SPEAKER_00: It's S-Y-M-O-N-D-S.
- 1:37SPEAKER_00: He's the owner of the Simmons Family Funeral Chapels in Illinois.
- 1:44SPEAKER_00: Elgin and Carrie at the very least.
- 1:48SPEAKER_00: He just renamed the two businesses he bought.
- 1:51SPEAKER_00: But I was talking to him because...
- 1:54SPEAKER_00: of some of the things that I wrote,
- 1:56SPEAKER_00: that I wrote, that I read in the reporting of his latest acquisition.
- 2:00SPEAKER_00: So he bought a former competitor, friend,
- 2:03SPEAKER_00: a former,
- 2:04SPEAKER_00: you know,
- 2:05SPEAKER_00: other person who did funerals in the region,
- 2:10SPEAKER_00: in the area,
- 2:11SPEAKER_00: and he In the article,
- 2:13SPEAKER_00: it talked a little bit about some of the consolidation that was going along.
- 2:17SPEAKER_00: And one of the reasons that the person who sold to him did sell to him was
- 2:23SPEAKER_00: because he didn't just want to sell his funeral home.
- 2:27SPEAKER_00: He wanted to sell his funeral home and his funeral business and also know
- 2:32SPEAKER_00: that they were going to be open six months from now,
- 2:37SPEAKER_00: which is not something that people can kind of count on a lot of times when
- 2:43SPEAKER_00: When they sell to a corporate entity,
- 2:45SPEAKER_00: and especially in this situation, which is why I think it is particular.
- 2:50SPEAKER_00: I reported last week or the week before,
- 2:52SPEAKER_00: a couple weeks ago,
- 2:53SPEAKER_00: I wrote a story on Connecting Directors about Park Lawn buying one of
- 2:57SPEAKER_00: the first funeral homes that Robert Waltrip bought in his house.
- 3:08SPEAKER_00: And they bought it and they closed it because it was too small
- 3:13SPEAKER_00: and there were other ones closer that were doing a better job or not doing
- 3:19SPEAKER_00: a better job necessarily, but more effective, more efficient, I guess.
- 3:26SPEAKER_00: And it's something that Mr.
- 3:27SPEAKER_00: Simmons and I talked about because There's still no funeral home in that community.
- 3:33SPEAKER_00: I mean, the people from the community will still die
- 3:35SPEAKER_00: and they will still be buried someplace,
- 3:38SPEAKER_00: probably at a park lawn institute that's not in their hometown.
- 3:42SPEAKER_00: But that's not what Simmons wanted and it wasn't what his partner wanted
- 3:49SPEAKER_00: before he bought the business.
- 3:51SPEAKER_00: They wanted to keep the business in the town.
- 3:56SPEAKER_00: And that was important to both of them.
- 3:58SPEAKER_00: And That,
- 4:00SPEAKER_00: I think,
- 4:01SPEAKER_00: is the attitude that might be different among independent funeral home owners.
- 4:09SPEAKER_00: Some of them, certainly smaller ones.
- 4:12SPEAKER_00: So the new funeral home does about 80 cases a year.
- 4:16SPEAKER_00: Mr. Simmons said he did 150 or something like that.
- 4:19SPEAKER_00: So these are not massive, massive businesses.
- 4:22SPEAKER_00: But that's also the point.
- 4:24SPEAKER_00: They want to be...
- 4:28SPEAKER_00: I don't think that there's any funeral director.
- 4:30SPEAKER_00: I don't think there are many funeral directors who are doing it and don't want
- 4:33SPEAKER_00: to serve families.
- 4:34SPEAKER_00: I know that a lot of times,
- 4:36SPEAKER_00: especially with the corporately owned,
- 4:39SPEAKER_00: the larger consolidator types,
- 4:42SPEAKER_00: there's this Not unearned notion about quotas and making sure you hit the numbers.
- 4:49SPEAKER_00: And that is important for any business that's a business.
- 4:53SPEAKER_00: But when your business is a vocation, that's a different story.
- 4:58SPEAKER_00: Trust me.
- 5:01SPEAKER_00: And doing what you want to do is more important than being able
- 5:10SPEAKER_00: to run a massive profit margin.
- 5:12SPEAKER_00: He likes being in the handshake.
- 5:15SPEAKER_00: He lives, Mr. Simmons lives in his funeral home.
- 5:18SPEAKER_00: The gentleman he made the deal with actually still lives in the funeral home,
- 5:21SPEAKER_00: and that's just where he's going to live until he decides he doesn't want
- 5:24SPEAKER_00: to anymore.
- 5:25SPEAKER_00: You know, he just has to answer the door if people knock, but otherwise he's mostly retired.
- 5:31SPEAKER_00: And this idea of serving families is what I was getting at.
- 5:35SPEAKER_00: Isn't exclusive to independent funeral homes,
- 5:38SPEAKER_00: but the notion of serving a specific community and the notion
- 5:44SPEAKER_00: of continuing your family's service to the community is something that really is,
- 5:51SPEAKER_00: I think, exclusive to small and independent homes.
- 5:55SPEAKER_00: Funeral homes because that's what they're doing it for.
- 5:59SPEAKER_00: If you're still independent,
- 6:03SPEAKER_00: if you own one or two funeral homes, it's not like you're buying a Learjet.
- 6:11SPEAKER_00: You're doing this for a reason that's outside of your ability to generate cash flow.
- 6:19SPEAKER_00: And sometimes...
- 6:20SPEAKER_00: You pay that price.
- 6:21SPEAKER_00: I know I talked to Dan about it.
- 6:23SPEAKER_00: And again, I'll bring that out in the story.
- 6:24SPEAKER_00: The story probably won't be out for another week, though.
- 6:28SPEAKER_00: Some years he's like, wow, that was close.
- 6:30SPEAKER_00: And some years he's like, boy,
- 6:32SPEAKER_00: I'm glad I have a lot of savings because now I'm going to have to dump it all in to,
- 6:37SPEAKER_00: you know, not dump it all in, but, you know, I'm going to have to tap the savings.
- 6:40SPEAKER_00: But that's the The privilege of doing what you want and the price
- 6:45SPEAKER_00: of doing what you want is this very thing.
- 6:49SPEAKER_00: So congratulations to him on his new acquisition.
- 6:54SPEAKER_00: It's acquisition.
- 6:56SPEAKER_00: It's not new.
- 6:58SPEAKER_00: It's about two years old.
- 6:59SPEAKER_00: So I'll have a link to the story in there.
- 7:02SPEAKER_00: The naming is what brought it up in the news this week.
- 7:05SPEAKER_00: They renamed them all.
- 7:06SPEAKER_00: So that's what it's in the news about.
- 7:08SPEAKER_00: But I wanted to give you a little bit of a backstory because I think that's a conversation.
- 7:12SPEAKER_00: And I would really like to have more of them,
- 7:15SPEAKER_00: this idea of what do you do,
- 7:17SPEAKER_00: what's the trade-off,
- 7:19SPEAKER_00: you know,
- 7:19SPEAKER_00: and how much are you willing to trade off when you eventually do have to make
- 7:23SPEAKER_00: the choice about selling your business for one reason or another.
- 7:27SPEAKER_00: But anyway, link to that in the show notes.
- 7:31SPEAKER_00: In this week's Australia,
- 7:33SPEAKER_00: or I'm going to call it the Australasia section because it's going to include
- 7:37SPEAKER_00: that whole area.
- 7:38SPEAKER_00: This one happens to be about Australia, though.
- 7:41SPEAKER_00: New South Wales took its next step to becoming the first state in Australia
- 7:46SPEAKER_00: to introduce terramation for people to choose as an option.
- 7:51SPEAKER_00: The bill,
- 7:51SPEAKER_00: which was introduced by independent MPs,
- 7:55SPEAKER_00: For Sydney,
- 7:55SPEAKER_00: Alex Greenwich and was supported by the New South Wales government has achieved
- 8:01SPEAKER_00: the first step by passing unanimously through the lower house.
- 8:06SPEAKER_00: If it passes all the way,
- 8:07SPEAKER_00: it'll become New South Wales become the first state or territory in Australia
- 8:11SPEAKER_00: to open to to have termination, which is very cool.
- 8:16SPEAKER_00: And this was actually posted on Mr.
- 8:18SPEAKER_00: Greenwich's Facebook page with a lot of,
- 8:21SPEAKER_00: you know, Pro-Taramacian
- 8:26SPEAKER_00: language in quotes from him.
- 8:29SPEAKER_00: So there'll be a link to the Facebook post in the show notes.
- 8:33SPEAKER_00: But it's really interesting.
- 8:34SPEAKER_00: I'm actually working on another story about Australasian funeral directors.
- 8:43SPEAKER_00: One of the things I'm interested in is they haven't had I'm sorry,
- 8:47SPEAKER_00: they have a high cremation rate, but they didn't have a run-up in cremation rate.
- 8:54SPEAKER_00: They have been cremation forward for long enough.
- 8:56SPEAKER_00: That has always been part of their process.
- 8:57SPEAKER_00: And I'd like to talk to them about how they make things go
- 9:05SPEAKER_00: with such high cremation rates as their starting point.
- 9:10SPEAKER_00: But anyway, link to this Facebook post in the show notes.
- 9:16SPEAKER_00: There is some death doula news that I'd like to share.
- 9:18SPEAKER_00: I wish I did a better job at covering the death doula space.
- 9:23SPEAKER_00: I've been up to my neck recently,
- 9:25SPEAKER_00: so hopefully I'll get back to it in 2027 after we get this next quarter out from
- 9:31SPEAKER_00: under us.
- 9:32SPEAKER_00: But Cleveland State University on October 28th will be holding
- 9:36SPEAKER_00: a conference called Labor Out Conference,
- 9:42SPEAKER_00: and the theme is Where Healthcare Meets Death Care.
- 9:46SPEAKER_00: And it is bringing in a bunch of death doulas to speak with nurses and vice versa.
- 9:51SPEAKER_00: So death doulas,
- 9:52SPEAKER_00: local death doulas and nurses are going to be working together to talk about hospice
- 9:58SPEAKER_00: and what happens during the death process and I mean, it's a death.
- 10:21SPEAKER_00: To help the hospital staff maybe be better guides or better facilitators about the process.
- 10:30SPEAKER_00: From both, it is unfortunate.
- 10:32SPEAKER_00: There are no funeral directors.
- 10:35SPEAKER_00: But this is about getting to hospice and the dying process.
- 10:41SPEAKER_00: So I have a link to the story, which was on cleveland.com.
- 10:45SPEAKER_00: And...
- 10:46SPEAKER_00: It talks about the different people who will be speaking.
- 10:48SPEAKER_00: And if you're in the area and interested in going,
- 10:51SPEAKER_00: there's still time to go, which is why I wanted to put it in here.
- 10:54SPEAKER_00: And yeah, there's a link to it in the show notes.
- 11:00SPEAKER_00: And something of like a news of the weird,
- 11:02SPEAKER_00: I'm just going to read the written story to you because it's hard to make sense of
- 11:08SPEAKER_00: on my own.
- 11:09SPEAKER_00: A disagreement over funeral floral arrangements escalated recently
- 11:14SPEAKER_00: in Miami-Dade establishment, resulting in battery charges for one individual.
- 11:21SPEAKER_00: The incident began when a delivery person died.
- 11:24SPEAKER_00: Attempted to drop off flowers at a local funeral home,
- 11:28SPEAKER_00: but was informed by an older attendee
- 11:31SPEAKER_00: that arrangements were no longer being accepted for this particular funeral.
- 11:35SPEAKER_00: And what followed was an argument.
- 11:37SPEAKER_00: And then the guy who is delivering the flowers started making monkey gestures at
- 11:48SPEAKER_00: the attendees, at the attendance, the funeral attendants.
- 11:54SPEAKER_00: Then hit the hit the old man who was keeping him from delivering the flowers.
- 11:58SPEAKER_00: And the second victim came in and was able to get him in a headlock.
- 12:04SPEAKER_00: Now, this is where I'm going to go a little bit off script because it could have ended there.
- 12:09SPEAKER_00: But the guy who got put in the headlock actually went to the police
- 12:13SPEAKER_00: and said he'd been assaulted at this funeral home.
- 12:17SPEAKER_00: And then they pulled up the tape and they saw him punching the old man and brought him to jail.
- 12:23SPEAKER_00: I'm hoping that there's more details that come out with this story
- 12:26SPEAKER_00: because this seems like if you're just delivering the flowers,
- 12:29SPEAKER_00: maybe he,
- 12:30SPEAKER_00: you know,
- 12:31SPEAKER_00: maybe he was going to lose his job because he stopped off someplace or something.
- 12:35SPEAKER_00: I have no idea why someone would punch one of their customers for not accepting
- 12:43SPEAKER_00: the thing that they ordered.
- 12:45SPEAKER_00: But there's a link to this kooky, kooky story in the show notes.
- 12:52SPEAKER_00: I don't know if this is exactly a correction.
- 12:54SPEAKER_00: I was wrong.
- 12:55SPEAKER_00: I don't want to pretend that I'm not wrong,
- 12:58SPEAKER_00: but I also don't know if I'm changing my mind on this story or not.
- 13:02SPEAKER_00: So the town of Lexington has been back and forth over whether to build
- 13:08SPEAKER_00: a specialized crematory for us.
- 13:12SPEAKER_00: Members of its growing South Asian community who have particular religious needs
- 13:18SPEAKER_00: when being cremated.
- 13:20SPEAKER_00: These are Hindus.
- 13:21SPEAKER_00: These are Sikhs and Buddhists,
- 13:27SPEAKER_00: other members of the South Asian religions who have kind of like more of a room for
- 13:36SPEAKER_00: a witness cremation and a longer cremation.
- 13:42SPEAKER_00: And during my coverage, I wasn't.
- 14:12SPEAKER_00: I thought the town was trying to prevent them from doing it themselves.
- 14:16SPEAKER_00: What the town was doing was saying,
- 14:18SPEAKER_00: we don't want to pay for this because it won't be profitable.
- 14:22SPEAKER_00: I'm, you know, of the opinion, I'll remain of the opinion that not all goods are profitable.
- 14:28SPEAKER_00: I still think they should have built it.
- 14:30SPEAKER_00: It looks like they're definitely not going to.
- 14:32SPEAKER_00: The vote was 4-2 against building this specialized crematory,
- 14:36SPEAKER_00: which they said would cost $400,000 a year to run,
- 14:40SPEAKER_00: not including capital costs and maintenance, and would only...
- 14:48SPEAKER_00: Produce at the most $150,000 a year in revenue.
- 14:52SPEAKER_00: Those numbers are their numbers.
- 14:53SPEAKER_00: You guys know more about what it costs to run a cremator than I do, so I will leave that to you.
- 14:59SPEAKER_00: And I will put a link to this final story in the show notes that straightens out some of the...
- 15:03SPEAKER_00: I was wrong to say that the Sikhs were trying to build their own...
- 15:09SPEAKER_00: Um, crematorium were being prevented.
- 15:11SPEAKER_00: So that's why it's really important that I bring it up because I was just,
- 15:15SPEAKER_00: I wasn't kind of wrong,
- 15:15SPEAKER_00: you know,
- 15:16SPEAKER_00: and I'll put notes on the previous,
- 15:18SPEAKER_00: uh, commentary, but for now link to this story in the show notes.
- 15:24SPEAKER_00: And speaking of specialized cremation, um,
- 15:27SPEAKER_00: in the San Luis Valley in, uh,
- 15:31SPEAKER_00: Crestone,
- 15:32SPEAKER_00: Colorado,
- 15:33SPEAKER_00: there is an open air funeral pyre that's the only legal one in America,
- 15:41SPEAKER_00: according to this story.
- 15:42SPEAKER_00: And the story is really like a nice long feature story
- 15:45SPEAKER_00: about why they do what they do and how they do what they do.
- 15:48SPEAKER_00: But mostly it's volunteer people for the Crestone End of Life Project.
- 15:53SPEAKER_00: And it allows people to come and participate in an open air cremation as
- 15:58SPEAKER_00: an alternative to conventional funeral industry practices.
- 16:04SPEAKER_00: So I just I thought it was a cool story and I thought I'd share it with you
- 16:08SPEAKER_00: so you guys could read it, too.
- 16:09SPEAKER_00: And there's a link to it in the show notes.
- 16:13SPEAKER_00: I've been speculating a lot about what's going on at Carriage and what's going on
- 16:17SPEAKER_00: at Park Lawn and SCI as far as acquisitions.
- 16:21SPEAKER_00: I keep saying acquisitions today.
- 16:23SPEAKER_00: I don't know why.
- 16:24SPEAKER_00: As far as acquisitions, I'm working on an acclimation story.
- 16:29SPEAKER_00: I was just typing it before I started talking.
- 16:31SPEAKER_00: That's probably why.
- 16:32SPEAKER_00: But anyway, the carriage services announced that they are maintaining their dividend.
- 16:37SPEAKER_00: So once again,
- 16:40SPEAKER_00: 11.25 cents per share as per usual,
- 16:44SPEAKER_00: which means that they did something right or at least didn't do something so wrong
- 16:50SPEAKER_00: that it dinged their...
- 16:55SPEAKER_00: So they will probably have their earnings call in early November.
- 17:00SPEAKER_00: I think everybody that first week,
- 17:01SPEAKER_00: last week in October,
- 17:02SPEAKER_00: first two weeks of November are when the earnings calls are going
- 17:05SPEAKER_00: to start coming out.
- 17:06SPEAKER_00: Some of them have already been announced.
- 17:08SPEAKER_00: And of course, I'll be covering them and I'll shoot you my updates as they become available.
- 17:18SPEAKER_00: So this is kind of breaking news.
- 17:20SPEAKER_00: As I'm recording this,
- 17:21SPEAKER_00: I was notified I got an email,
- 17:23SPEAKER_00: a press release from a funeral women lead that included their 2026 State of Women
- 17:30SPEAKER_00: in Funeral Service Pulse Survey Report.
- 17:34SPEAKER_00: It's the first of its kind.
- 17:35SPEAKER_00: It's a young organization and there's a ton of stuff in it.
- 17:39SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to get to dig into it in any kind of meaningful way
- 17:43SPEAKER_00: before I'm done recording this.
- 17:46SPEAKER_00: So hopefully I will be able to talk to some people and have something really
- 17:49SPEAKER_00: in depth for you the next time I talk.
- 17:53SPEAKER_00: But until then,
- 17:54SPEAKER_00: some of the highlights I wanted to share with you,
- 17:58SPEAKER_00: 73% of women feel emotionally depleted at least sometimes,
- 18:03SPEAKER_00: but 75% report they are likely or very likely to remain in the field for at least
- 18:09SPEAKER_00: the next year.
- 18:10SPEAKER_00: The burnout ratio is...
- 18:14SPEAKER_00: 36% from compensation, 30% from staffing and schedules.
- 18:22SPEAKER_00: So I remember I talked to a human resources person once.
- 18:27SPEAKER_00: And, you know, when people say it's about the money...
- 18:33SPEAKER_00: It's just the first thing we go to.
- 18:35SPEAKER_00: You know, this is a transactional world.
- 18:40SPEAKER_00: And, you know,
- 18:42SPEAKER_00: if you're having a hard time,
- 18:43SPEAKER_00: the first thing you go to is,
- 18:45SPEAKER_00: you know,
- 18:45SPEAKER_00: I'm not getting paid enough to do this because that's how we value our workers.
- 18:50SPEAKER_00: And that's the way it is.
- 18:52SPEAKER_00: And it's interesting to see that, you know...
- 18:55SPEAKER_00: Nearly, you know,
- 18:57SPEAKER_00: 40% think of compensation because a lot of times,
- 19:01SPEAKER_00: as I said,
- 19:01SPEAKER_00: compensation is code for dissatisfaction in little tiny ways that are difficult
- 19:08SPEAKER_00: to explain.
- 19:09SPEAKER_00: Right.
- 19:11SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry, 64% of women lack a mentor and 49% would like to have a sponsor.
- 19:19SPEAKER_00: Although those numbers are the way they are,
- 19:21SPEAKER_00: only 14% already do have a mentor or sponsor who can talk to them about their way up
- 19:28SPEAKER_00: and forward and career choices that they make.
- 19:32SPEAKER_00: 39% of respondents said that they feel a high or a very high sense
- 19:36SPEAKER_00: of workplace influence,
- 19:38SPEAKER_00: even though almost 20%, 18.2% say they are actively seeking it.
- 19:43SPEAKER_00: So some generational influences.
- 19:45SPEAKER_00: Gen Z reports the lowest sense of voice.
- 19:49SPEAKER_00: Only 4% feel like they have enough influence and the highest sense of emotional depletion.
- 19:55SPEAKER_00: Millennials carry the heaviest burnout squeeze,
- 19:59SPEAKER_00: 45% say they have mid-career depletion,
- 20:04SPEAKER_00: and prioritize financial relief, 44% cite Kay as the top lever.
- 20:13SPEAKER_00: Generation X and baby boomers are generally more stable,
- 20:17SPEAKER_00: but vocal about seeking respect, inclusion in decisions, and recognition.
- 20:22SPEAKER_00: There is so much more.
- 20:23SPEAKER_00: I will link to the report.
- 20:26SPEAKER_00: There's a pictorial report and then there's a data report.
- 20:30SPEAKER_00: Both are available from Funeral Women Lead.
- 20:33SPEAKER_00: This is a very exciting development.
- 20:36SPEAKER_00: And like I said, I'll dig into it more for next week.
- 20:38SPEAKER_00: But for now, if you want to spend the next week digging into it on your own, I do not blame you.
- 20:42SPEAKER_00: And like I said, link in the show notes.
- 20:47SPEAKER_00: And that'll do it for this time.
- 20:48SPEAKER_00: The rest has been an On Deathcare production.
- 20:52SPEAKER_00: It was written, edited, videoed, all the things by me, Tony Russo.
- 20:56SPEAKER_00: I'm having an absolute blast doing it.
- 20:58SPEAKER_00: I'd like to thank you as always for taking the time to join me,
- 21:02SPEAKER_00: for sticking with this all the way through.
- 21:04SPEAKER_00: And I know your attention is important and I know it's highly sought after.
- 21:10SPEAKER_00: And thanks so much for spending it on me.
- 21:12SPEAKER_00: If you'd like to spend more on me, you can subscribe to On Deathcare.
- 21:17SPEAKER_00: If you go to ondeathcare.com,
- 21:19SPEAKER_00: as I said in the beginning,
- 21:20SPEAKER_00: you can subscribe for anything from zero dollars per month to more
- 21:25SPEAKER_00: than zero dollars per month.
- 21:26SPEAKER_00: I really like the work I'm doing there.
- 21:28SPEAKER_00: I really feel like it's important and I appreciate it.
- 21:32SPEAKER_00: All of the support, monetary or moral support, I can use all the help I can get.
- 21:39SPEAKER_00: I will be off next week.
- 21:41SPEAKER_00: Actually, I'll be away this coming weekend, October 23rd-ish, whatever the next weekend is.
- 21:48SPEAKER_00: I'll be away.
- 21:49SPEAKER_00: I'm going to the mountains of Maryland while you guys are,
- 21:52SPEAKER_00: many of you are at the NFDA conference.
- 21:56SPEAKER_00: Let's take this weekend to just kind of shake our heads together and Get used to the week.
- 22:02SPEAKER_00: So I'm not going to be able to have anything out for you on Tuesday of next week.
- 22:06SPEAKER_00: But then I will be back after that as we plunge into the final quarter of 2025.
- 22:14SPEAKER_00: Six.
- 22:15SPEAKER_00: The final quarter of 2026. Who'd have thunk it?
- 22:19SPEAKER_00: All right.
- 22:19SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much, guys.
- 22:21SPEAKER_00: Have a great weekend.
- 22:22SPEAKER_00: If you're going to end the FDA, please be safe.
- 22:24SPEAKER_00: Please have a good time.
- 22:26SPEAKER_00: And I will check in with you next time.